False Illusions that seem Real

polygamy 411We know some women agree to marry married men (Islam permits Muslim men to have up to four wives at one time).  Men are responsible for the protection and maintenance of women. Some  women who agree to accept polygamy and marry married men give up their right to have the men maintain them. They don’t require the men to maintain them financially or materially or if they do, it is  minimally. Many such marriages do not work when the women relinquish their right. Let’s take a look at why it is.

One reason the marriages do not work when women give up their rights is because they built their marriages on  false illusions that seem real.  Once the woman settles into the marriage, reality begins to set in. Reality is totally different from the fantasy that she had in her mind. The conditions that she thought she could tolerate based on the thoughts she had in her head are very different from what actually exists. What she expected was not what Allah swt had decreed. What she had imagined would be was not how Allah decided it.  She then is in a state of turmoil. She does not accept how things are.

It is why we should not try to envision the future about anything. People have a tendency to live in their minds and in the future. They don’t live for today and what exists now. They don’t stay in the moment. A true believer does not envision what will happen in the future, as he or she knows nothing is absolute except Allah. Allah (swt -Great and Glorious is He) may put a man in a situation in which he cannot maintain his wife or family. It is when, as believers, he and his family must exercise patience, persevere and pray until Allah changes their condition. It’s where faith comes in. We may make our intention, but we must know that only Allah knows the future.

This world that we live in is not Paradise. Everything will NOT go the way we want it to go. Things go the way Allah decided they would. When we find ourselves in a situation, we must believe Allah made the right decision, although the decision may cause us pain. We have to accept Allah and His decisions and know that one day we will not have the pain any longer. Having the correct beliefs gets us into Paradise.

Some think to have the correct belief in Allah means merely that one offers salat (the five daily prayers); pray the Holy Month of Ramadan; go to Jumuah (Friday Congregational prayer); don’t drink alcohol; don’t eat pork; don’t smoke a cigarette; don’t have a dog in the house; don’t wear makeup; do this and don’t do that. There is far more to belief than any of those things mentioned. Those things mention are the acts of Allah. Acts and intentions are for a discussion for another time, and probably another place. I talk a lot about belief here at polygamy 411. Belief is about accepting Allah’s decisions – accepting everything that Allah has decided – what He has decreed. Belief is to accept in its entirety what is in the Holy Quran.

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Share/Save

Don't Be Shy. Leave a Reply

* Denotes Required Field

315 Comments

  • ana

    December 3, 2013

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Peace to All:

    Okie Dokie, we’ve come to the close of another thread. I thought it important that we continue to contemplate the topic of what “just” and “fair” are with regard to polygamy. The new thread is:

    http://polygamy411.com/can-he-be-just-and-fair-between-his-wives/

    Insha Allah (God Willing), everyone will join us there. happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    December 3, 2013

    @Spirited, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    That joke pretty much flew over my head. I’m not big on them anyhow LOL I have a lazy brain when it comes to jokes.LOL Furthermore, math was never one of my strong suits. Neither was science other than natural science and the like. My brain is not wired that way. It’s amazing how Allah give us all different gifts. We all have got a job to do.

    Spirited, what’s interesting is that many of the wives whose husbands marry others were always working. It seems to me that when they take another wife it doesn’t take anything from the first wife monetarily. The only time I find it matters is when I want something quite large and Alex has no money. I know I can’t go to him for any. Yet, Allah swt has been so good that he gives me my own, so I don’t have to do without. In the beginning stages of polygamy, I think most of us bellyache, as were going through a transition and adjustment period. Not many people embrace change easily.

    Oh, the new post is ready to publish. It’s just that we’ve had some conversations going, so I’m holding off a bit longer to put it out there. Insha Allah, I will publish it sometime today though.

    Hello out there; anyone got anything else to say before we close down this room of the house laughing

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ummof4

    December 3, 2013

    As-salaamu alaikum and hello to all the ladies,

    To Laila and Spirited,
    You have both grown in the short time that I have known you on this site. I am proud of you. You both seem to be more Allah conscious, Alhamdulillah. You both give very sound advice. I hope that the other young ladies listen to you well. Sometimes they feel that women who are much older than them don’t understand. Therefore it is vital that we have some “under 40 somethings” on this site.

    Along those lines, it is amusing to me when young people under thirty today say that times have changed and young people nowdays are more promiscuous than we were. Obviously they have never watched any movies or documentaries on the 60s. Those of us who came of age in that time were some of the most promiscuous beings ever born. We really practiced “free love.”

    Each person has to decide for himself/herself what sexual habits will be practiced. A person can decide to fornicate or not. A person can decide to commit adultery or not. We are each responsible for our own morals. Islam teaches us to be of the highest moral character.

    This may have nothing to do with the topic. I just needed to say it.

  • Spirited

    December 3, 2013

    Salaam ladies,

    Its a quiet day today happy

    @Ana, lol yup, calling us a gang made me laugh too. I was imagining a bunch of Muslimahs & at least two non-muslims (Jenny & Gail) in leather biker jackets riding around on motorcycles laughing It’s a hilarious mental image with hijabs or niqaabs and leather! laughing Also, physics & chemistry (the sections with the most math) are my trouble spots. I swear I can mess up in even the simplest equation (always have, even way back in High school!).

    You’re correct that the lady who was with us that day (a friend of a cousin’s) wasn’t considering that Allah provides. But most people don’t have the level of faith you do and this woman herself is not particularly that religious (no hijab, questionable clothing, etc.) but it’s no business of mine happy Still, I thought the general message of what she said was sound. Although its true that Allah provides, He also recommends that women not go out and work in the work force unless absolutely necessary. It wouldn’t be necessary if men didn’t take on more women if they can’t even support one. Along with not lying and keeping the 2nd (3rd or 4th) wife secret. I still think it’s not a bad idea she had — suggesting that being truthful & able to support another family before taking that step would actually make polygamy easier to bare. Just as general common decency I guess happy

    @Heaven, good to hear from you again! Thank you for clearing up some of your points for everyone. One thing I must butt-in about — Islamically, you actually do not have any rights. There is no concept of “boyfriend/girlfriend” in Islam, and you only have rights upon one another when you are married and that’s it. Fraternizing between men & women in the way that boyfriend/girlfriend do these days is forbidden in Islam and intimacy before marriage is a big sin. So please keep in mind that most women here are speaking to you from the Islamic perspective and will call out your Muslim “boyfriend” on whatever he’s doing that is clearly wrong. It’s not an attack on you happy

    Weeeell, I should get back to the books. Oh there’s a funny joke a friend of mine told me recently. The joke used “desi sweets” (luddoo and jalebi) but I’m just going to substitute regular fruit. So the joke goes as follows:

    In class: 1 strawberry + 1 strawberry = 2 strawberries
    Homework: 2 strawberries + 1 strawberry = 3 strawberries
    On Test: You have 1 strawberry. Calculate the mass of a banana.

    laughing I love it, always makes me laugh! Its so true too! You learn the thing in class, then you do the homework — maybe get a few wrong, but can figure it out. Then on the test, it’s like …where did the banana come from?! I’ve never seen this before in my life! laughing (maybe I’m just easily amused…winking

    Also very randomly, I just saw a tv commercial for a new show on Discovery Channel titled “Naked & Afraid”. It seems to be a survival show in the jungle where the participants have to be naked. rolling eyes What in the world is the point of this? Honestly, it wouldn’t surprise me if one day, people around here just said “screw it, we don’t need clothes at all.” Its pretty much almost like that in the summer anyway — most bikinis these days might as well not even be there.

    Aaaanyway, I’ve rambled on long enough, talk to you ladies later. Looking forward to the new topic Ana happy

  • ana

    December 3, 2013

    Dear Laila, As Salaamu Alaikum, Sis

    It’s always good to hear from you. You have grown and matured so much since you first came to the blog. It’s phenomenal. I could see Allah at work through you. It’s amazing. Keep up the good work. Keep going strong. I pray Allah is well pleased with you. You should feel so good about yourself. Keep remembering Allah swt and turning to Him; you’ll see life keeps getting better and you’ll be full of peace and contentment. You’re on your way…. thumbs up

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • laila

    December 3, 2013

    Hey Jenny, sorry for the late update but hope your hubby has a blast on his birthday! happy Turning the big 50 haaaa….. my old goose will be 51 next year. Still loving but immature. Maybe I should get him a t-shirt with the sentence, “Still waiting to grow up!”…. [ hugs ]

  • laila

    December 3, 2013

    Dear Heaven…. Can I just say something?…. I find you so childish and immature! Sorry but seriously, who are you to determine when a man and wife are and aren’t allowed to have or in my terms make love? Seriously?!… What has trust got to do with him promising you that he wouldnt’ make love to her? You said that it doesn’t bother you, but yet you said that you’re suprised. I think you’re contradicting yourself. Do you REALLY understand the religion that your boyfriend practises? Do you even care? ….. In life / or leading a polygamous life…. there’s no real guarantee to anything. What you’re asking is a contract, and any marriage, singular or plural doesn’t really have a contract. Yes, you can say there are pre-nups, yes other than that, you just go with the flow. Trust is such a heavy word. Ive been with my husband for 13 years now, take into account before and now presently married. Recently I’ve discovered that after all these years, and all those miscarriages, and all those idiotic fertility treatments thanx to his low sperm count, my name wasn’t even listen as his cash out retirement plan, just in case if he goes first. It’s under his first wife’s name…. Now what do you think about that? Can I turn around and pack my bags and say, “thanx babes, but guess I can’t trust you now… ciaow!”. I can’t! We are Muslims, and in the practise of being Muslim’s, we must be patient, maybe Allah s.w.t. has a bigger plan installed for me. Now, I can probably bitch and say Im also the wife so come on where’s my share if crap were to fly to my side of the fence? Yes, I was sore about it for a while, but now Im over it and Im working far harder for MYSELF. Ive told my husband that Ive no right to even ask as her name was there wayyyyyyyyy before meeting me and personally, I don’t feel good. In marriage, especially polygamous ones, there’s no exact answer. Everyone takes a gamble. The husband takes a gamble by remarrying, the new wife takes a gamble by being part of an existing unit, the first wife takes a gamble by deciding that divorce isn’t on her plate. In my opinion, you’ve no rights at all. You are NOT YET his wife and personally who are you to make such demands? You stated that his wife wasn’t even a virgin before tying the knot, hey, who gave you the job of Allah s.w.t. or God to judge? Maybe beyond the virginity issue, she could be the nicest person around. When a man strays, many people immediately point their finger towards the poor wife. Many forget that the man has a sound mind, is an adult and will do what he want’s at the end of the day. If he decides to be nasty, he will be a nasty one, if he decides to be good and God fearing, he will be one. That doesn’t mean as a wife yoou can’t change him, yes you can but the percentage is low.

    Ive married a man much senior to me. The stuff that he does either directly or indirectly kills me at times. If I were to say things like you do to him, I don’t know where my marriage would be. It doesn’t mean Im a passive one too. Trust me, I can get what I want, but the time and place has to be appropriate. Sometimes we also need to be tactful and have a bit of understanding and compassion. You’re not even her co-wife and yet I feel you have no compassion. Isn’t it her right to want to be with HER husband in an intimate manner? If my husband were to decide to remarry… again… and my future co-wife were to put down such a demand, seriously, I would go all out and make my husband leave her. Reason? … If she can’t even be understanding before marriage, I wonder what are her antics would be after marriage!….

    There’s no guarantee and trust to anything Heaven, you just have to follow your gut feelings and be the better partner. My aunt gave me this good advice a few days ago, “If you wan’t your husband to be a good and loving man, you FIRST have to set the example”. Which Im doing right now eventhough Im hurting a bit. My hurt isn’t about the money, it’s about all those years we have been together. But I am alright now…. Live and let live. Heaven please understand that by marrying a man of a different culture and background, you have to do your homework. Learning his language isn’t enough, Gail is absolutely right, you have to get down to their way of life and beliefs. I hope you fully understand what you’re getting into and stop demanding so many things out of them both. It’s not right, and you’re only going to hurt your co-wife further.

    Polygamy is a tough life. Therefore as the new wife, you have to sacrifice more and be the compassionate one. You have to show your co-wife that you’re in it for the long run and that you too can pledge your commitment. Only then will she probably accept you. If she still doesn’t…. then move on and don’t gossip about her or her weaknesses. What goes around, comes around. Remember that.

  • ana

    December 3, 2013

    @Heaven,

    With regard to the statement you made that people when they marry make promises not to leave each other, it is what you don’t understand. It is not a part of Islam. A Muslim who is a Believer doesn’t make promises that way because we know that God controls the heavens, the earth, and all between, including man. If Allah determines he will separate a couple, it happens. No one knows what God has determined for them.

    I was trying to explain to you that a Muslim’s way of life is different from a non-Muslim’s. It is why Muslims and non-Muslims are not supposed to marry. A non-Muslim cannot be a good influence in a Muslim’s life, if they marry. The non-Muslim will lead the Muslim astray, off the straight path. There is no exception to the rule. There is no and, or, if about it. God says it will happen. One may as well say that if a Muslim, hooks up with a non-Muslim to begin a relationship with him or her, that Muslim is already on his or her way down the wrong road and his or her fate begins to look very grim.

    Heaven, do you know how you sound? You asked your boyfriend not to have sex with his wife so that he can prove to you that you can trust him. How would you confirm that he didn’t have sex with his wife? Do you have someone there with him to watch him 24/7? Please think about what you say.

    About your boyfriend’s wife, you have no business or right to interfere in their marriage. You have no right to tell him what to do with her whatsoever. Your right is to concern yourself about you and him. She is his wife and he is her husband. You have no right to intrude in their lives. She as his wife has rights. You as his girlfriend have none other than the ones you make up.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Heaven

    December 3, 2013

    To clear some points: I NEVER asked my boyfriend not to sleep with his wife EVER. I asked him not to do it last weekend. Not because I don’t want them to have sex, to show me that I can trust him. Yes, the wife has rights. But that does not mean that I don’t have any rights at all. We don’t share the same rights so far. To be honest last weekend he was with his family and it didn’t bother me at all, not even imagining that they could have sex right now. I just don’t care. It really surprised me though…

    @Marie: I promised my boyfriend not to leave him because of her which does not mean that I am not leaving at all. You said you are wondering how you could promise someone to never leave. Isn’t this what everyone of us do when getting married? We are promising each other not to leave and to stand up for each other, staning by each others side for better or worse? We are promising this to our husbands sooner or later. It does not matter how old you are. You can marry the worst guy you’ve ever met at the age of 60, but you can also marry the best guy loving and carrying at the age of 18.

  • ana

    December 2, 2013

    @Spirited, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    You cracked me up when you mentioned your husband called us your “Online Muslim girl gang” LOL He’s too funny laughing Wow, Spirited, you’re getting down with some physics? You’re too heavy for me.

    Spirited, you stated, “This lady said that a muslim man shouldn’t take on another family if he can’t adequately provide for the one he has now.” The lady didn’t consider that Allah says He provides. Furthermore, she didn’t consider that a man is going to take on another wife when Allah decides it. Allah decides who the man marries, when the man marries her and Allah will provide for them according to what He has allotted for them. Allah apportions. Allah says He enlarges and restricts the provision to whom He pleaseth. Belief is all about believing what Allah swt says in the Holy Quran. Belief, righteous deeds and repentance gets us into Jannah/Paradise.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Spirited

    December 2, 2013

    Hey there gals! Salaam big grin

    @Ana, Walaikum Salaam, sounds like a plan! I always love to see what you’ve put together for everyone to read. Sounds like you had a great Thanksgiving break with your husband! That’s always good to hear happy

    I forget who said it, but something a person randomly said about polygamy had a little bit to do with men being fair. I’ll just jot it down now because I’m sure I’ll forget later (and it’s not exactly related to that topic). This lady said that a muslim man shouldn’t take on another family if he can’t adequately provide for the one he has now. I’m not sure what everyone was talking about at that moment because I was talking to someone else there, and just happened to pick up on that (it was a small random gathering, eating out sort of thing).

    If men thought it out like that, as well as being upfront about their plans from the beginning, I think that would go a looong way towards making the early years of a polygamous marriage easier.

    @Lynnette, hey! You seem to be busy lately, hope everything is going well big grin Thank you for your kind words! I’m working on being more self-confident now, that should definitely help with seeing my goals through, so let’s see how that goes. I recently got in touch with a local DO (who is highly praised for his mentoring) and managed to get him to mentor me for all of February, every day he’s working! I just have to go buy a few more dress pants (no jeans they said, lol) but no scrubs required either (which is good, ’cause I’d have to first hunt for my old ones, or hunt for a store to buy new ones), so just casual but presentable. Now I just need to go harass two of my chosen letter of recommendation writers…yes, the same two who I have reminded a few months back. laughing Although, one of them wants me to sit with her and help her write one because she’s never written one before. I told her I didn’t either, so I’m not sure how I could even help! lol, the things that come up I tell ya. Oh and I managed to snag an MCAT test location much closer to home for the same date in January, which is good, but the $65 change fee is overkill. Stupid highway robbery!

    Hmmmmm let’s see, anything else. Oh my husband dropped by today for a few hours, we talked a bit, I gave him some stuff to eat, watched a few funny clips I had been saving to show him when I saw him again. He was also saying that he’s really impressed with how calm I’ve been. Oh yea and we were talking about somethin or another, and my answer to some weird little question he asked made him laugh and he remarked that I was being more aggressive with answers lately too, and it must be because of my “online muslim girl gang” laughing I wish I could remember what we were talking about, but all I have in my head are sleepy thoughts of equations, inclined planes, and acceleration/velocity (I only managed to do some physics work today, then my husband came, then I had a sudden invite to a presentation being given by one of my favorite professors at my undergrad college so I ran to that, then dropped off some food to the army cousin I’ve talked about before, then came home just a little while ago).

    Well, I’m going to head off to sleep, talk to you ladies tomorrow big grin

  • ana

    December 2, 2013

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Peace to All, happy

    I’m a bit late getting here. I’m working on a new post now, and should have it up by early afternoon tomorrow. I still intend to do a thread on the post that ummof4 had written, as it is very good and warrants a thread. Before, I put the thread up, however, I feel a need to do one again on “just” and “fair” treatment of wives by their husbands. I think we’ve been missing an important point in our discussions about it. So, I’m going to get back to writing it in a moment, Insha Allah.

    @Lynnette,

    Your post was so nice. We do have a fine sisterhood here and I, the same as you, believe Allah swt has brought us all here together for a reason. It’s beautiful. Lynnette, I have no problem forwarding any email you have for Kim to her. I probably won’t get over to my email until sometime tomorrow. Nonetheless, Insha Allah, I will try to get over there now and again to check to see if you’ve sent something. I better run for now. I want to work on the post, and then try to get a work out in, Insha Allah. So, it looks as though I’ll be burning the midnight oil.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Lynnette

    December 2, 2013

    As Salaamu Alaikum, and Peace to All,

    To each of you:

    I am here for a few reasons; the first is the Sisterhood. I don’t really know you, except through your writings — just as you don’t “know” me except through mine. But I believe very strongly that Allah (swt) has gathered us here, together, for a purpose. It is trough you ladies that I have experienced the blessing of Sisterhood. Here, on the blog, because we cannot see one another, we listen to one another; Sister Ana, I say — Alhamdulillah for you more often than you know.

    Also, each of Sister Ana’s titles comes with a reason for thought, and a reason to reflect on Allah (swt) and his Graciousness. A lot of us are operating in the theatre of our lives on false illusions that seem real; many of those illusions are completely self-limiting.

    I have been focusing on dispelling the illusions; praying for clarity and for Peace, and looking at my own world to see how better I may serve Allah and I realized — thank you Sister Jenny for being here to turn on the light — that there is something I can do, in addition to my current business/employment to build prosperity, using the skills I have. You have been giving me the courage to dream again; today I am going to do everything in my power to register an LLC. Alhamdulillah for the gift Allah (swt) gave to me by bringing me in contact with all of you.

    @Sister Spirited,

    You should see yourself through the “mirror” of my reading of your writings. If you could, you would know that I see you as strong, (stronger than you realize)smart (smarter than you give yourself credit for being) and kind (with a kindness that will serve you and your patients well). Keep chasing your dream! Sometimes, all we can do is say “bismillah” and just jump!

    @Sister Kim,

    Stevens Point is pretty; it’s a college town. There is work in that area; housing prices are reasonable, and there are some outstanding programs/opportunities available for you to become a home owner. I know Sister Ana is sick of my emails, but I have a few links I’d like to share specifically for you. When I get to a computer, I will try (Inshallah) to get that handled.

    Sister, bad credit never stopped any determined soul. When we read from the Qu’ran, we are continuously reminded of the blessings for us who “spend out of what (Allah, Great and Glorious is He) has given. Sister, today, I feel inspired. We serve the LORD of the WORLDS. He created all of the wealth — he is the SINGULAR Source of all. Why must I fear not having? That, my Dear Sister, is a False Illusion that SEEMS real. It isn’t real.

    Salaam to all,

  • Marie

    December 2, 2013

    Asalaamu alaykum all,

    @Ana, yes I too was shocked at what heaven was asking from her “boyfriend” I think its was Ummof4 or lynette who pointed out the rights of the wife and heaven having no rights at all. I can relate to heaven in the sense that when I met my now husband, I was 17 promised all things Heaven did and accepted that he had children and was to some degree still involved with their mother. I think back and I’m like, how could I promise to NEVER leave someone, how do I know what the furture holds or what this man will put me through to say ill never leave. Alhamdullilah we BOTH was guieded to islam if it were just me and he remained as a disbeliver I’d be outa there. Yes I definetly think your made some improvments, we can never stop trying to become better muslims, I think if anyone was to say they don’t have to improve themselves would be a sign of arrogance, glad you had a nice weekend with Alex, try an pop in again soon. I’m going to pray Isha an have a cat nap its 6pm uk time. Hubz has new job that finish’s at 2am an I like to get up and chat for a while with him.

    Salaams to all xx

  • ana

    December 1, 2013

    Inshallah I’ll have more to say tomorrow. I’m in bed, writing on my phone now. I hope everyone has a good week happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come

  • ana

    December 1, 2013

    Wow Spirited, it’s a whole lot you go through, going into the city. I didn’t know it was like that for you. You do better than me; you actually drive alone in New York City. Kudos to you. Insha Allah, it will go easily for you on Friday. Do a lot of zikring or listen to CDs of the Quran, while driving, InshaAllah. I just about always play CDs of the Quran or zikr while I’m driving.

    Alex left today. We had a wonderful long weekend. Alhumdulliah! We ate a whole lot -probably gained some pounds. Now I have to work out hard and work it off, InshaAllah.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Spirited

    December 1, 2013

    Salaam to all big grin

    Quick pop-in before I hit the hay.

    Ana, I bet if I spent more time actually walking around NYC, it might not be too bad happy. I have done a bit of that other times with family & friends, but its always been too hectic. Right now, I have to drive in and it takes 3 hours to get where I need to be (1hr from where I live to either tunnel’s approach, 2 hrs from tunnel to destination around 121st street & broadway). Then its 4 mind-numbing hours at the review class, and by the time that’s done, it’s 10-10:30pm, then navigate out of the city which still somehow has a lot of traffic and sleepily drive home. laughing Of course walking and public transport (train/subway) is the way to go, but I haven’t had very pleasant experiences with that, so I just feel safer in the car.

    I do also have an issue with the congestion and over-crowded-ness though, but there’s not much anyone could do about that. If you think about it, besides eating and shopping which you can do anywhere, the only other things to do are “look at the lights” and catch a Broadway show or two. No one I know (myself included of course) prefers to go through all the trouble of going into NYC just for that. I just prefer more “open” and free-feeling areas (suburban or rural — but not necessarily “middle of nowhere” type of places, those are just creepy and dangerous). big grin

    I think I’ve heard that saying you wrote in the last line “You can be amongst the dead, but not of the dead.” but the wording was different. Point taken~ plus, there’s only about 4 more classes, so not a big deal winking However, if say, there was a polygamy411 meet ‘n greet in NYC, I would totally make the trip! lol.

    Ooook, lonely bed here I come. Goodnight everyone!

  • ana

    December 1, 2013

    Spirited, As Salamu Alaikum

    Be optimistic about Friday. Embrace the experience. You may one day begin to love New York. I Love New York. You need one of those t-shirts. LOL Repeat after me, “I Love New York.” laughing Remember, you can be amongst the dead, but not of the Dead. It includes when you are in New York City.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Spirited

    December 1, 2013

    Salaam everyone!

    I hope everyone’s weekend has gone well as it comes to an end. I’m not looking forward to Friday (have to go into NYC again laughing ). Other than than, everything is quiet on the front lines here.

    @Kim, sheesh! What a strange way to behave sad. Have you pointed this out to your husband? Asked him what he thinks he’s doing? Since you’ve set your mind to activating your Plan B, I don’t suppose it could hurt to see just what he’s up to, or do you just want to leave it alone and stay with a “whatever he does, I don’t care” sort of thing? I guess I just have some kind of morbid curiosity about his behavior. I give up trying to understand men, they simply make zero sense.

    @Billy, hello welcome back! It’s good to (sort of) meet you! Congratulations on your pregnancy & I hope it goes well! It must be quite an exciting time for you. You seem to be full of good cheer and have an upbeat attitude, I hope you’ll be writing in again like the other old-time regulars who are still here when you’ve settled into your new place. big grin

    @Laila, for sure, I feel the same way! Everyone here feels more like sisters than my own real sister as well. Although I do still talk to my sister, but we don’t particularly see eye-to-eye on many things (like me choosing to stay with my husband), and she just generally thinks I’m an idiot, lol. Sometimes I do catch myself thinking she’s got it figured out better than me and its best to stay single like she does — who needs men to complicate life? It’s hard enough! But then, I remember that being married helps you to be closer to Allah (or its supposed to). Aaaanyways, I forgot what else I wanted to say about what you had written.

    Hmmm, I have to get back to the books. Did I mention test day is in January? Towards the end of January, but it’s comin’. laughing Well, time to grab a snack, take my medication, & get back to reviewing and continuing to make my flash cards. Catch you girls later.

  • Aishah2013

    December 1, 2013

    Laila thank you for your advice.sorry you don’t speak with your sister.yep we are all like sisters herehappy!. well a major difference I could see or a few between me and Co…who does she have to look after but herself? I get home from work and I’m still running..feed the kids..make sure homeworks done, discipline kids whatever.if I ask hub to make sure they got homework done,whatever, to make it easier on me,may or may not get done…a lot more parenting gets placed on me. once she is home that’s it she can give him full attention….and she looks to guidance for him on everything..I don’t need to ask anyone if I can cook something (rice) I find that’s 3 years out of date.who does that?!!!she does, don’t have to ask directions ( she has GPS, me too,that’s what its for)or stuff like that.I don’t consult him on every single thing I do, guess he likes that from her, but anyway doesn’t work well in polygamy,you have to be more independent), maybe he needs some hero worship I don’t know…he calls me his strength…so and yes could definitely be sex.my Co is honestly quite not attractive in appearance.yes maybe she is turning his world. upside down that way..time fo me to go shopping new undies! no I actually do put an effort into the health/ appearance…and he enjoys a good massage…I think I represent reality she represents fantasy but if you take it on you have TI be able to give both their rights! I would agree he does not want to be called on it…so yep I can sex it up a bit.it would be difficult for me to play clueless/ helpless..that is a tool of maniplation.thanks for your perspective

  • Aishah2013

    December 1, 2013

    Billy wow a cowife and a pregnancy.congratulations!curious about your story….Jenny happy birthday to your husband.forget to suggest a boxed sequined thong to open. at his party….Gail I found that info out some time ago (didn’t say I saw papers) and informed him evidence pointed to her being of a different sexual orientation.( very first time I met her I thought is man,woman,transsexual,what)but he said no she straight.ask her she would tell you.by that point we were no longer speaking so I don’t think so.he more recently. said other part/ she and friends went with this made up gig to get here.I don’t know. like I said I researched it a bit….there are definitely lots of schema out there.but if that year only 10 people from that country got to stay cause of GLBT causes I would guess you would have to have somewhere definite proof of being gay….so that’s that.yes she is not a truthful person.she has a lot to keep secretary I guess…so it would not benefit her to be. any more involved with me anyway.and that’s fine.whether there are threesomes..doubt it…she was probably trained to just service him and keep roof over her head…I believe its a big organization.any way enough thoughts of them for now.

  • Kim

    December 1, 2013

    Asalaam aleikum all,

    @Lynette,

    I’d be going to north central-ish Wisconsin, a little ways from Steven’s Point, a couple hours from Green Bay. A small city where my daughter and grandson live, and my son is headed there tomorrow insha Allah (hard to believe he’s leaving the nest *sob*). It’s a vibrant little community of maybe 40,000 at most, but has everything a person could want or need. Jobs look good there from the searches I’ve done. And housing is CHEAP compared to here I can get into a single family house for almost half what I’m paying for this ratchet apartment LOL…and no downstairs crazy neighbors? Works for me. Plus I’ll be with my family. M can go straight to hell – or the next suburb over with N, or to Georgia with his daughter, Texas with his son, or to Kashmir, or timbuktu tongue as the country song goes, “my give a damn’s busted” LOL….

    Stole a peek into his phone this morning…well he’s communicating with someone whose number I don’t recognize, both incoming and outgoing calls. I’m going to sit back and observe happy

    @ Gail, yep, I’d say there’s a little co-dependency going on here. But someone has to stop it. Looks like that someone, as usual, is me. Honestly I don’t really care about the intimacy-hit the couch cycle. I’d prefer the intimacy part was out of it though. I can’t stand to have him touch me. And it’s infrequent enough these days, so the pressure’s off me to “perform” and that’s just fine with me. I want my freedom pretty badly now…..I’m sure missing the peace and freedom I had during that 6 week hiatus. He SWORE things would be different if I let him come home, that he would be the guy I married again. Yeah. This? Ain’t the guy I married. Of course, I’m no longer who I was when I married him either…I’m harder, colder, cynical, and he can thank himself for that. In any event, he can promise the moon but it’s not up to him. Allah/G.d is in control, not us. And I feel Allah wants me going in this direction – east, with my kids. The tug is almost physical in nature. Glad to hear your holiday was fun! Ours was too, except for that nutty lady downstairs.

    @ Jenny, he can do whatever he likes – run after me, disappear, whatever. I wish him the best, but as far as I’m concerned, whatever it was that sustained us up to this point is gone. Our marriage now is a case of beating a dead horse. I don’t love him like I did. I care for him, always will, he is a special person but he is way too screwed up, as Gail said, way too self-absorbed, immature, and about as far from Allah as a person can get. I think about being with this shell of a husband the rest of my life, waiting for the next cheat, the next lie, and I get super depressed. I think about moving and getting my own life back on track, focusing on kids and career and my own spiritual journey, and it excites me and fills me with purpose. A few zipcodes between N and I would be great. A few zipcodes between M and I would be WONDERFUL. If this happens, insha Allah, it will be late Feb. or early March. I have to give 60 days notice at this roach motel before I can legally move without breaking the lease. That will give me the time to save up for a deposit, first month’s rent and moving truck and all that fun stuff. Insha Allah by then M will have given up and gone back to Kashmir, or, as he’s pondered, gone to Georgia and found a job there near his daughter. Whichever. And of course the legal filing has to happen. Why didn’t I go with what that voice in my head was telling me, and done this in August??? ugh….we could be done by now.

    @Aishah, I honestly do NOT know how you do it. All those unanswered questions would have me climbing the frigging walls. I’d LOVE to know what your husband knows and what he doesn’t know. You should give Ana her name and then Ana can put on her police detective’s scarf and do some serious sleuthing lol….

    @Spirited, well, I was always told that women in their 40′s are supposed to be in their prime for intimacy, but I call BS on that. At least for me. It’s been YEARS since I have a rip about it, except when M first became polygamous, then it was game on, because hey, I have competition now. That too wore off pretty quick though. Gail is 100% on the money – N and M are far better suited than he and I, and intimacy needs are a big part of why I say that. She was by all accounts a nympho, and well, he is all about it, so…? Yeah it’s weird, the couch thing. When my daughter and grandson got here and my youngest had a friend spending the night Wednesday night, he was all, “Where should I sleep?” and I pointed out that I’m in this queen sized bed myself. He got in bed, we do the do without a word exchanged, and he was out the bedroom door like a shot. Where did he sleep? In the living room on the lazy boy recliner! Oh well, it’s his bad back, not mine.

    @Billy, wow, long time no see, holy cow! Glad you’re back with us, girl, you crack me UUUUUP….welcome to the wonderful world of polygamy tongue Are you healed up from your accident now? Welcome too, to the midwest. Michigan has some really nice areas, I have friends there. The Upper Peninsula is gorgeous. Ok, you’re not all about flora and fauna, but insha Allah you’ll grow to love the nature around you, such as it is happy Look forward to chatting with you further!

    Everyone else, hope you’re all having a splendid weekend – back to work for me tomorrow after a 4 day weekend…and a crappy paycheck awaits LOL…hate not having any holiday pay tongue

  • laila

    December 1, 2013

    Dear Aishah, Ive been meaning to take time out of my day to type out this reply to you. I finally understand and get your issue. I know now because believe it or not, Ive got a friend’s friend in my neighbourhood who’s a second wife and after hearing about the havoc she’s caused in the co-wife’s family…. Im so confident of a woman who’s been angry… and frustrated can create issues! You have decided to have a wali to be the go between you and your husband. You are angry / down at the constant interruptions and dumb antics she pulls off and in which your husband condones. I feel instead of trying to “TALK” is a waste of time.She’s obviously using some form of antics that clearly is making your husband gravitate more towards her. Could it be sex?
    [ Sorry If I am blunt ] ….Or the way she’s treating him? Im asking all this because from the information I got from my friend, I get a feeling sometimes some new wives can be extremely manipulative and cunning.Men on the other hand just don’t see it. They fall for the innocent look these women pull off of the way these women treat them that they just can’t seem to find fault or in other cases, won’t want to find their flaws. Why don’t you be nice to your husband and take her crap for a bit? … I know, I sound insane…. But whenever she tries anything funny maybe you can tell him in a sweet manner that what she’ doing isn’t right. Try to play the part of an understanding wife. I am saying all this because one polygamous family in my neighbourhood is falling apart… sad The first wife is treated in a very business like manner. Monthly allowances is provided but there’s no love, afftection and care from the part of the husband. The reason is the new wife has somehow found a way to manipulate and poison the husband’s mind. He only comes home on his days and not even care to ask about thier children. I know this family and how they operate. They are very very united and loving. Im sad that it’s come to this stage. Maybe Allah s.w.t. is testing them all… I don’t know. But I want you to not just have a husband. I want you to have a man that loves you and cares for the kids too. This is my most sincere intent. Women sometimes use so many ways to win. It could be treatment, the way she talks and handles herself to what happens in the sack. In this case, the first wife attacked her [ which is for me normal human behaviour when you marry someone's husband and try to manipulate who get's the lion share of property / money ]. Well humiliated, the new one has gone on her own crucade. Try to be silent for a day or two. Try to remember what makes him feel valued and loved. What is it you used to do that makes him feel special. You might feel that my response is a bit childish. But after hearing that story, and also going to my friend personally and giving her encouragement. Money pays bills, but we all would want a companion, a friend to talk to, a man that shows his love and affection towards us. I usually run away from other people’s internal family issues here where I live. But this is my friend. I got news from another friend who’s also into polygamy. So as any friend would, I set some time aside and went to just listen to her. Sometimes people don’t want solutions. They just want someone to listen to them. I know you’re going through your own battles right now. But please take my reply with an open mind. Like talking to a not very mature younger sister, but a younger sister that give’s a damn and will protect you. happy I know in the past, when my religion and marriage wasn’t involved, I had a very very loving and meaningful relationship with my older sister. Now that we don’t talk to one another…. [ long story ] … I miss her so much. I miss having a sister. The feeling is so different. I was her little baby because of our age difference. Now I look at everyone here as my sister. Just sharing my own issues as well. It’s amazing how close we got to one another and now, I can’t even talk to her. Too many painful statements were hurled at me. It’s best I guess to lead separate lives. May Allah s.w.t. bless her.

  • ana

    December 1, 2013

    @Billy As Salaamu Alaikum,my sister happy

    It’s so good to hear from you. I missed you so. It’s amazing; I was just thinking about you the day before yesterday and thought to email you to see how you are. I thought you were gone for good sad I’m so glad you’re back.You’re so much fun and I enjoy reading your posts. I thought about your immediate big happy family too, with all your siblings. I was so excited to see your post. I was in bed, watching TV with Alex when I checked my phone for posts on the blog and saw you had written. I exclaimed,” OMG, Billy’s back!!!” He must have thought I was crazy. LOL.

    I’m so sorry to hear you lost your post after all that hard work. I know too well what it is like. I had to copy protect the blog after an irate, crazy, commentator who I had banned kept copying and pasting material from our blog to a blog she started, and began to use it for dialog over there. Those who hate polygamy or hate our blog or hate me began to congregate there to have a bash polygamy 411 party. Nonetheless, it is what it is. So the downside is no one can copy and paste anymore, which unfortunately include all of us, accept me. I can go to the back office and do it.

    Wow, so you’re in Michigan now. My oldest sister lived in Ann Arbor for several years and then her husband’s job moved them to Connecticut. I never got out there to Michigan to see them although, my mom and my two other sisters (one died this past August of breast cancer) visited them. They visited them in Connecticut too. They asked me periodically to go, but no dice. I don’t hang with my non-Muslim family often. My younger brother and sister (twins) have an upcoming birthday and are throwing themselves a party in a couple weeks that they’re having at a manor. I initially declined the invitation, as it seems ostentatious to me. It’s just way, way, way, way too much. Well, my sister got very upset that I said I wouldn’t go.She said she just want to have fun. Since my middle sister died, things seem creepy, like – who is next? sad So, I said I’d go for a while. But, back to Michigan, my sister and her family had a huge, beautiful home when they were living there, as well. They miss it sooooooo much. I saw pics and it was an amazing house.

    Billy, congrats on your expectancy. Wow, you’re going to be a mommie – that is sooooo scary laughing just kiddin, maybe kiddin, maybe not laughing So your hubs really did plunge himself into polygamy surprise. Wow, I didn’t see that one coming. Oh, well, when you get a moment, perhaps you could fill us in. I pray all is good with you health wise and you’ve totally recovered from the injuries you suffered from the auto accident. Insha Allah, check back in with us soon. How did you enjoy your stay in Syria? It was a heck of a place to be. How did you survive it. I didn’t know people were traveling to that part of the planet… Don’t stay away so long, Billy happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • billy

    November 30, 2013

    I’M BACK!!!!! from syria!!!!!!!!!!!! well i’ve been back for some time now but i have just settled in & my hubby just set up my intermanet thingy majiggy!!!!

    sorry i didn’t mention i was going, it was totally craycray before i left!

    ANA!! i missed you!!! marry me? winking j/k i’m probably not your type.

    i crack myself up.

    MY GOODNESS!!!! REAL INTERNET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! okay bibi calm it down a notch.

    oh and i BIT the BULLET & my hubz is married. my god.long story lol. lets chat tomorrow (OH i had written a WHOLE THING but like whats up with the site? it wouldn’t let me copy and paste and the submit button wasn’t working so i had to restart my browser and lost everything cuz i couldn’t copy paste sad bibi so sad)

    btw i literally bit a bullet. i wanted to see if i could dent it with my teeth.. long story short i did. cheap bullet? strong teeth? the world my never know.

    OH and i gotta new piece!!! hellz yeah!!!! its the pretties color of blue u ever did see happy so don’t mess with me (i kid.. i kid.. or do i? LOL KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!)

    and the bullets are pink. just sayin. (okay maybe the bullets didn’t come in pink and maybe i used nail polish to make them pink and maybe that renders them unusable.. but we won’t know until i have an intruder.. so…we’re good! right? well, at least the intruder will be good.. then again it’d be kinda like russian roulette.. will he or she get shot? won’t they? for their sake they better hope the nailpolish renders them stuck. i also nail polished my cute lil gun bluish but.. that’s just the outside so i doubt it’ll effect its working ability.. my god i can’t wait to see my hubbys reaction later!! lol. god i could be such an idiot sometimes. heck i was bored. not like i told him to go get married.. oh…wait… i did? eh you win some you lose some lol. j/k.)

    ok lets see what i can type before he enters my very unhumble abode.

    for one, we MOVED! of course i had no knowledge of the matter until i landed in NYC! da freak?! yeah she wanted to be closer to her family (wtf man i’v been begging him to be closer to my family for like EVER! but NOOOOOOOO). so now we’re in the middle of america, a little north, a place called TROY, michigan. yuck. i love that they have most of the shopping shops i’m use to in nyc but my god, its so BORING. at least the house is pretty. wish it was smaller cuz i’m ONE person. ugh.i hate hate hate big houses. especially when they’re empty. creepy. i love cozy houses. i grew up in a big house but i had a big family so it felt cozy. i hate big houses sad really sucks. i know it could be worse but big houses are SERIOUSLY CREEPY and like, isn’t michigan the murder capital? if it is i know why. can’t really hide from intruders in a super big house. okay i’ll stop cuz i’m scaring myself. suppose to be a safe neighborhood. supposedly. we’ll see.)

    okay… hmm… i think i’m forgetting something…oh… yeah… back 2 months and i’m FREAKING PREGNANT.

    even worse

    my house has GRASS in the FRONT AND BACK. can you say EWWW?? i can’t wait for the weather to give up, i’m gonna have someone out here to cement them asap. me + grass = sworn enemies

    OKAY I gotta go now!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Gail

    November 30, 2013

    Aishah,
    The most important information you got out of this is that your Cowife is not Honest.I think that is fact enough not to mix up with her alone.I think you are right to just leave her alone and with the information that u have I would distance myself even more to be honest.I would put up clear clear clear barriers to husband if u are certain she got asylum from being a lesbian.You are a practicing Muslima and I would not let my children near her in light of this info to be frank.I know u said the children do not go near her anyway but I would be very direct with your husband about this.I don’t know if he knows u know about cowife and all this stuff but if he don’t I would sure let it be known.
    On a personal note I feel sick for you to have a husband that would condone this bullcrap under any circumstance.I will go one step further and say I hope for your sake they are not having some crazy 3 way action going on over at their place on her days.It seems to me if he would agree to all that nonsense then he is no better than she is.I can totally see how disgusted you would feel on all this nonsense.
    I am not a betting person but If I were my money would 100% be on that girl is a bisexual.

  • Jenny

    November 30, 2013

    @ Lynette,

    That was very sweet what you said! I wasn’t going to say this, but after what you had said, I have to tell you what my husband did last night. One of the Pakistani magazines was doing a story on me and my husband last night for an upcoming edition. My husband started talking about me and he looked at me and told the reporter that before his Creator he was a broken man before we met, and the True G-d put him back as one with me. I said, “Awwwwwwww!!!!!” The past couple of days he has been so sweet he will definitely not be seeing the inside of the dog house for a long, long time!

  • Aishah2013

    November 30, 2013

    connection was had a job for duration of initial visa 4 month in a Muslim run business,she was not a practicing Muslim, …and entered USA usd here from another state.its a large group of people working together I guess.very determined so it doesn’t matter who gets run over maybe….but they probably didn’t count on me :/!I could be a loose wire in the system.well if anything goes wrong w her plan it will be Gods will.I have the info but I am not God so it will play out as God wills.

  • Aishah2013

    November 30, 2013

    Lynette thank you perculiar beings barely to describe it.yes God only guides those who want to be guided….in the case of Co she got the asylum. for GLBT status…she didn’t tell me.some info literally “fell into my hands” when I was doing laundry several months ago.I had seen pics on her camera of her hugging masculine woman in GLBT center……part of the secrecy was. she told hub she and friends used this method to come to USA but she is straight…I don’t know. probably bi.gonna imagine she has some talents that they train them to do…OK I believe to get asylum you do need some decent proof” such as going to clubs,being a member of GLBT center (saw that on paperwork)maybe info from people you are dating….honestly the people in these catagories who are really of a different sexual orientation, why would they help a straight person pretending to be gay?..and sure enough there are a lot of scams everyone wants to be in USA, but people (attorneys) would be carefulful to maintain it as legit claim…or could end up in trouble legally.in her case would not be good to have proof of nikah, (don’t want to appear straight),or be married to man.there is dafinitely a goal citizenship, think she probably has “permancy” by now but marriage and kids could still throw a wrench into her status withICE….I think its why she doesn’t hang with make friends..told to keep low profile..by whoever group is that puts this into place…and then there. was a muslim connection to this stuff.

  • Gail

    November 30, 2013

    Kim,
    My holidays have been so much fun this year.It sounds like u had a nice Thanksgiving as well.
    I am curious what is going on with you and your hubby these days? Sex and then the couch how awful is that.I am the type of person I pick up very fast on that kind of stuff.I am curious do u think u both are just codependent on each other if the truth be told? I am kinda thinking along those lines.
    So u have decided to move to WI.I will be honest I think if u move and leave him behind that would be your best bet and just start over.I hate to say that but it seems that your marriage life is just totally suck to be honest and I think if u really sat and thought about it you might see that you could do way more with your life.
    I will tell u what I think your husband is a self absorbed man and I think you are a woman trying to raise her children.You are both are not on the same wave length.It is not good or bad it is what it is and nothing u can do about that because u can not change your husbands personality that is up to him and it don’t seem he is putting in the work to do that.On your side you have a life with your kids and Grandchildren and your husband really just don’t fit into that life not because u don’t wish it but because he doesn’t wish it is my sincere feeling.It is like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole in this case and I honestly believe that given the circumstances your cowife is a much better match for him to be honest.
    I also feel very strongly that u are like this really devoted home and family type person and G.D has this perfect match for you.I am a firm believer in figuring out your life and getting all the negative out and clearing way for the positive to come flowing in.I do feel there is a man out there for you.I feel it very strongly.I hope WI will be a very positive move for you and I hope finally you will be happy.If somehow you could sit down and get really honest with yourself about how u want your life to go and make a blueprint for your life from here on out I think that would be your best bet.I am a firm believer if u can dream it u can DO IT.

  • Spirited

    November 30, 2013

    Salaam (Walaikum Salaam) everyone~

    How’s the weekend going for you ladies? Mine is lonely & relatively boring. Watching Law & Order on my study break. Studying otherwise laughing

    @Isabell, hi again! Its good to see you back. I was thinking maybe you had been scared off. So what have you decided so far? Your last few paragraphs seemed to be just “what if” type of musings, so I’m not entirely sure yet, but it seems like you’ve told him to shove off — which is good, in my opinion.

    @Gail, oh my goodness, you were actually poisoned? That’s pretty hardcore =O. Glad that you were ok! Also, about that possible scenario you mentioned — an American goes to Pakistan, passport is stolen. Couldn’t he/she go to the embassy and get a new one? Might be easier if the person had kept a copy of their passport ID page in a secret location separate from their passport. Still, it is very troubling to hear that the American Embassy in Islamabad wouldn’t be of any use! And I believe it too, they’re one of the big reasons my husband is facing some immigration issues now, 7 years later. rolling eyes Government agencies, no matter where, seem to be always incompetent in some way or another.

    @Kim wow, lol! Your downstairs neighbor sounds pleasant laughing Good to see that you’re not letting it bother you too much (since you’re planning to move anyways). It sounds like everyone who was present at your house on Thanksgiving must have enjoyed your food, Masha’Allah that your cooking was all great! On another note, I have to admit, I don’t understand why your husband is sleeping on the couch — it just seems like really bizarre behavior, even if he’s intimate with you anyway? Odd. lol at being grateful for intimacy slacking way off laughing My goodness, I wonder if I’ll be saying that too one day, but for now I’m the one always pushing for more winking

    @Heaven, I hope you’re doing well. I don’t have anything much to add to what everyone else has said so far. Thank you for answering my curiosity, and to me, it does sound like you’ve actually considered polygamy for a time and you sound to be accepting of it — but sometimes a person thinks they can handle something and when you are forced with it, it’s not exactly the same thing. I look forward to what else you may have to talk about, as well as your answers to the questions the other ladies have asked. happy

    Well, I guess I should get going back to the books rolling eyes
    I hope you gals are doing good, wish me luck in making this stuff stick in my head laughing Or well, your prayers would be better!

  • Jenny

    November 30, 2013

    @ Kim,

    I’m sure the change of pace will do you good. By moving, I’m sure things will get better for you ~ everyone will be happy. Don’t know what you are going to do with your husband, but you know as soon as you leave, he will come running. Actually, I think once you put zip codes between you and your stalker, you may have a nice life and marriage again. I wish you only the best! happy

    @ Gail,

    No doubt there are many stories like that floating around. The only thing is trying to tell an 18 year old something! happy They know it all. My oldest son, 28, just now admits to me I really do know what I’m talking about. Go figure! surprise

    I have heard many stories of women disappearing. Yes, I’ve heard of the Gori’s ending up in brothels. Hell, even some of the Pakistani women end up there too. You’re totally correct, the men can be so scary ~ especially, in there home turf where an American woman would have no control. You would have to be totally out of your mind traveling over there for a man you would have met on the internet. It never ceases to amaze me how foolish and lonely some women can be to snare a man! surprise When G-d wants you to meet your mate, you won’t meet him one second earlier despite your best efforts ~ what you will meet first is a whole sh*tstorm of danger. The harder you have to push that square peg through the round hole, that should be the first clue that it is not meant to be. I’ve prayed many times for something, did not get it, only to later find out that it was a gift from G-d that I didn’t get what I wanted in the first place. When it is meant to be, it is soooooo wonderful! Thing is waiting is not the fun part!

  • Lynnette

    November 30, 2013

    Assalamu Alaikum, and Peace to All,

    I’ve missed you Blog Sisters, and I am thankful to hear that most of you are enjoying your respective holidays — Hanukkah, Thanksgiving, whatever you are observing right now. MashAllah, He is so Gracious to us; He gives us periods for work, periods for rest, and periods for togetherness.

    I passed on the Black Friday theatrics this year; the deals were not really good enough to justify the insanity that one must endure to snag one. The only thing I was even remotely interested in — a laptop for my college-aged son — is still available.

    @Sister Kim,

    Western WI (near the MN border) is growing rapidly and is vibrant both economically and culturally; Southeastern WI (near the IL border) can’t seem to figure out that it’s best and brightest hope is in regionalization. Madison is beautiful, has excellent schools, and is diverse. So, if you’re truly Wisconsin-bound, there’s the short version of it.

    @ Sister Aishah,

    Your husband and co-wife represent a very peculiar test from Allah (swt) for you, and for one another. In Shaa Allah, your husband is diligent and is searching himself for all of the reasons that he is allowing this young Russian bride to rule his roost; perhaps he’s too “full of himself” to see that she’s on an agenda and using both of you. I doubt sincerely that she will allow herself to become pregnant, unless the Visa situation becomes truly desperate. Her motivations are so obvious; the game she’s playing is so evident, that I can see it from over here! But Allah (swt) guides whom He will, when He will.

    @Sister Heaven,

    I know that Sister Ana has an emoticon for shaking sense into someone. I wish she would just insert it into my post. If I thought it would do you any good, whatsoever, I would apply myself to shaking some sense into you. But Sister, I remember 18. I remember being utterly and totally stupid at that age, and I remember my friends also being utterly stupid. But there was no telling US that. Have you ever heard the words “adolescent infallibility syndrome”? If you have not, Google them. Youth is vain, Sister. It’s why youth must be guided.

    @Sister Jenny,

    Get him the 50-and-smoking-hot gear! That’s your husband; so long as he’s got you convinced, the world you create together is GOOD! Stay convinced winking. I think that the two of you are just amazing together. Love like what you have only happens once in a lifetime. It is such a gift, and I should be celebrated! 🎁🎊

    Be back soon….

  • Kim

    November 30, 2013

    Asalaam aleikum and good morning all,

    Hope everyone who celebrates had a great Thanksgiving, and Jenny and Gail, hope you had a wonderful Hanukkha (sp???)

    My thanksgiving was good. I overdid the cooking as per usual…turkey, taters, yams, corn, green bean casserole, watergate salad, dinner rolls, cranberry sauce, stuffing, etc etc etc. and made my famous “Better than Cinnabons” for the kids in the morning. Everything turned out fabulous, not one fail, which is surprising. Usually something screws up. Even my pie crust rolled out perfectly alhamdulillah.

    M wasn’t here for dinner. He worked. Came home, didn’t let me know he was home, went straight to the couch, turned on the tv and went to sleep. He’s been doing that ever since you-know-who called him. Actually he’s been sleeping on the couch for quite awhile now. We’ll be intimate, and the second it’s over he’s up and out on the couch. Intimacy has slacked WAY off (which I’m grateful for, to be honest). We are REALLY emotionally and physically distant now, and while I certainly notice, I really don’t care. We’re not fighting, at all. Just doing our own things. Hello Wisconsin! tongue

    I can’t wait to move. I have these downstairs neighbors that are really something else. From the minute my daughter showed up with my grandson this woman bangs on the ceiling. A 3 year old is going to run/trot wherever he goes, I’m sorry….but ever since wednesday night it’s a constant “J, stop running” to him, and the neighbor coming upstairs to complain.

    Right on thanksgiving, around noon, I’m trying to cook and my grandson is playing. Up comes this neighbor. She’s young, in her 20′s I’d say. Tells me that all night long the previous night she heard us and heard my grandson running back and forth. Excuse me? I was up longer than anyone Wednesday night and there was my older son, daughter and grandson in oldest son’s room (which is not above her place) watching movies, and me in my room (above her room) and M on the couch as usual. Who was running? I made it clear that wasn’t us she was hearing. She got snippy with me and claimed she has a newborn who we’re waking up. Mind you, she told me this same story early last summer when my grandson was making noise – that she has a newborn. Uh, what? So I told her “that is not my problem!” She’s all, “OH REALLY??? I’m taking this to the office, you better watch it”. Well, go ahead, lady. Quiet time starts at 10pm – if it’s noon on Thursday, lady, and the noise you’re complaining about is a 3 year old child trotting down the hall, the office is going to laugh you right out of there.

    Yesterday she came up complaining again because my grandson was wheeling his truck TWICE, from my oldest son’s room to the living room. My daughter looked at me, said “I got this” and answered the door. This time the woman said her daughter has a headache and the noise was bothering her. WTH?? how many kids this lady have in a 1 bedroom apt?? She’s given that story before too about a daughter with a headache. Anyways….last night I picked up M from work. Got home, went to my room, changed my clothes and went back to the living room. BANG BANG BANG from downstairs. Seriously.

    I cannot WAIT to get out of here!!!!

  • Gail

    November 30, 2013

    Ana,
    I am also wondering how they met.The way she has described the situation of her flying to Pakistan etc,it wouldn’t surprise me if they met via internet.Thats normally how the Pakistani play the game.

    Jenny,
    I love birthdays they are like the best time for me.I just go crazy planning everything.Love,Love,Love it so much.I am laughing about the Viagra ring.He will get a kick out of that.I am busting out laughing thinking I hope the poor boy don’t get depressed with all the over the hill balloons.Maybe u should mix a few 50 and still sexy balloons in or a cake made with smoke coming out that says “50 and still Smokin Hot”.LOL I wonder if they even make such a thing?LOL Yup for sure I would throw something sexy in there so he knows u still think he is the Man
    I am just teasing but I kinda think it is a cute idea and would for certain boost his ego.

  • Gail

    November 30, 2013

    Ana,
    I to am very concerned about Heaven and what may happen to her.The American Embassy is a joke to be frank and if she gets over there and get into a fix I don’t know.When I first went to Pakistan an American had the right to walk inside the Embassy and talk to a Embassy worker well not anymore.I went with my sister inlaw and they they refused to let me even sit in the lobby if u can imagine.It was a huge disrespect I felt esp since I pay taxes.I figured out that day u better not get into a crises and expect our government to come running to your Aid in Pakistan.

    Jenny,
    When I first went to Pakistan to marry my husband and I went to Lahore to meet his family and when we were there on vacation my husband told me there was a woman that was being kept against her will by her husband.The story went that she went to Pakistan ti marry a Pakistani man and after marriage he took filed marriage visa for her country.When he got visa he took her passport and hid it from her and walked out of the country.It was one of my husbands Aunts Neighbors.I was really shocked and inquired about the woman what country she was from etc and if I could meet her but my husbands got wise to me that I was going to help the woman and said No it is to dangerous to mix up.We left Lahore the next day.
    I have also heard stories of woman in England falling for Pakistani men and they tell them they want to take them back to Pakistan to marry or meet his family.The woman agrees to go happy she is going to meet her fiance family but instead she ends up in a brothel and gets sold into sexual slavery.I should mention some of these woman have known their Pakistani men for years and trusted them 100% and had strong emotional attachments.It really is mind blowing when u think about it.Heaven being so young and Innocent and if she is white/Gori Woman well u can imagine.

  • ana

    November 29, 2013

    @ Gail,

    I’m eager to know how Heaven met her “boyfriend”. I keep falling asleep on how Pakistani men main concern is money and property. Your post definitely brought it home. Now, if I could manage to stay awake, I’d be in good shape. I fail to remember the cultural differences you so often refer to. God willing ,”Heaven will take heed.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Aishah2013

    November 29, 2013

    prayed for God to decrease it bit so can just be Bout God

  • Aishah2013

    November 29, 2013

    thank you Ana. yes that is relationship I have with my mom in law and his family.in truth her words were ” tell him not to bring his mess up around her.I don’t want to meet his mess and neither does anyone else”.same kind of reasons…my hub dad became Muslim during movement when more African Americans USA were reverting..so culture shock and he wanted a 2nd.she didn’t stay married to him…T hey were high school sweethearts.his current wife is very nice / she gives me good advice( she herself had a husband who got a 2nd wife, she tried to work with them, but her hub couldn’t get the fair and just downpat, so after some time and emotional trauma she divorce)said when she was on the market world spread quickly,and when she agreed to marry my father in law,her ex tried to stop the nikah!so. these folks they have been there.my father in law,now my wali is a funny Guy.he says have patience/ sabr,this young girl gonna move on…but he also says to him that me and kids have rights that need to not be violated!I ask God to guide me when pray, to be open to guidance be free from their harm., to enlighten my hub.I have prayed for loveliness have for hub to be.

  • Jenny

    November 29, 2013

    Hello Everyone!

    I hope those who celebrate Thanksgiving had a beautiful night. This was the first year I didn’t cook. We went to this new gourmet kosher restaurant not far from our office. We had a wonderful evening. Our tradition at the dinner table is for everyone to state one thing they are grateful for ~ my husband choked up, looked at me and told me that he was thankful for me and I was thankful for him. We held hands, he kissed me, and all the kids gagged! laughing

    Chanukkah has been just as lovely too! We have menorahs all over the place and I have fragrant candles everywhere.

    I’ve been Black Friday shopping since 1:30 am and I am more tired than you could ever imagine. Not that many good buys this year, but I did score a few deals.

    The other day was Ismail’s birthday and I had a big Spiderman cake delivered to Pakistan, along with a few toys and flowers for my mother-in-law. Everyone was so shocked! Ismail said to me he was afraid to take it, thinking someone would come to the house and ask for money! laughing They were all very happy.

    Gail, I wish I had your patience. When I hear Heaven talking ~ she sounds like one of my teenagers ~ devoid of common sense! Common sense should tell you if you want to be loved and have your husband with you all the time, it would behoove you to find a single man! No matter what you say, more excuses and explanations crop up and bend into shape. Why does she have to be a vestal virgin for four years??? I don’t understand that, but either way, this is a train wreck about to happen. Good Lord!!! I hope she wakes up and smells the coffee before she finds herself Passportless in Pakistan {The nightmare version of Sleepless in Seattle}! Imagine how lovely her life will be if they take her passport and she is under the mother-in-laws rule!!! sad We both know this can happen.

    Funny story I want to share with you ~

    Hubby is always talking about starting an exercise campaign {after he bent over a few years ago and his pants split to the belt loop}. So, for Chanukkah, I bought him a gym suit and sneakers. I was scouring all over the mall to find the right shoes for him. My oldest son {who has a Seinfeld-like sense of humor} saw these mirrored Air Jordans for $300, He was trying to talk me into getting him these shoes!!! Good lord, he would have looked like a pimp! laughing So his birthday is coming up in a week and a half, he’s turning the BIG 5-0! I got these balloons that say “Old Fart” {I’ll have to have them inflated across the street on his birthday} and one of these buttons that look like a name tag and it says, “My name is:” and then “Old” is written on the line. I bought the plates that has the Grim Reaper and it says, “Relax, I’m here for the cake!” Then I got this ring {I found in Spencer’s} with a Viagra tablet {fake, I’m sure} and it says “Break in Case of Emergency!” I’m going to rent out my husband’s favorite restaurants and have dinner catered to a crowd. I’m trying to figure out what his cake should be…. He’ll really be shocked!

    I’ve been slammed busy and I’ll be leaving the office soon and cannot wait to crawl into bed, with or without kids in the bed with us! happy

  • Laila

    November 29, 2013

    Dear Aishah I’m okay winking I understand that we are all here to support one another and to vent. So no offense taken okay sister. winking I’ve come across many women who have branded me so fast without even knowing….. ME. So I’m okay with it and I also understand from where you’re coming from. And yes, about visiting your mother in law? Hahaha… She’s got a game plan. My my, this girl moves damn fast. sad I never was that fast to meet my own in laws. Still haven’t met a few till today actually……

  • ana

    November 29, 2013

    @Aishah,

    I really, truly know how you feel about her meeting his family. What helped me is that Alex’s mother refused to have anything to do with his other. She was firm about it, as she experienced a “cheating” husband and they divorced due to it. Furthermore, she had a strong attachment to me, as I helped her and Alex grow closer together when he and I married, with the permission of Allah. I encouraged him to spend more time with her and take better care of her, as she was elderly and had health issues. She had Alex later in life. She said she doesn’t believe in sharing a man. She got angry at me for referring to “C” as his wife. His family is non-Muslim. His niece doesn’t take to anyone easily and I doubt she’d ever call someone Alex is with – aunt. She’s closer to me than any of my own nieces and nephews. His first cousin called “C” a “TRICK”, and is hoping he leaves her. She likes no one though and talk bad about everyone; I’m sure included in that everyone is me. As I said, though, they are non-Muslim, and can’t be expected to view and accept things the way Muslim are expected to.

    As I said before, as well, I could imagine having a young co isn’t easy. I’d imagine to have a young co would be a HUGE test/trial for woman who is older. Turning to Allah swt completely would make it all much easier for you. You can’t do it just to get ease, but to sincerely want to serve Him because it’s what we are supposed to do in this life to enter Jannah. Try to lose some of that love you have for your husband as well. I say it only because we are supposed to love Allah more than anyone or anything.

    Don’t beat up on yourself, Aishah. You’re doing good. Hang in there and stay strong. You could do it with the help of Allah. Allah remember those who remember Him and He guides those who seek His guidance.

    Oh, about the brothers losing respect for him, I say – who cares. Who are they? He need to be concerned about how Allah swt sees Him and not about anyone else. We’re not here to have someone respect us other than Allah swt. People start caring about how others view them and they begin to put on a show and become hypocrites.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Aishah2013

    November 29, 2013

    thank you all blog friends, and for the honesty.sometimes I have felt Co wants to take over my life…like at some point recently he talked about introducing her to his mom and family.he said she ” didn’t want to embarass or humiliate me.”.I said ” of course I’ve already experienced that”.(I’m sorry perhaps the 30 year age difference is quite signifigant…plus fact I truly know nothing honest about her background or whatever”…anyway I said ” your family is well awareof her.if they wanted to meet interact with her they would have done that, but of course you should ask them yourself”….I have my space in his family with our kids.I didn’t need someone 30 years younger ( hey Laila don’t get mad.I like you and you are a mere 20 years younger!!)to come in and take my place.it is too weird,beyond what I am capable of handling, and if she is here,young,working,needs to make her own friends, routines,things to do,events to hang out at.but thank you all for support.yes I have to take care of myself and kids.

  • Aishah2013

    November 29, 2013

    Ana,Ummof4 thank you.” stuck on stupid” yes….probably does not help that he has from what I heard lost some respect / support from some of his Muslim brother friends at masjid…makes someone cling to their idea that ” they are doing it right” …it is allowed by Allah but gotta do best he can and not violate wife’s rights.yes will answer to Allah, as we all will.but I am aware of my rights….

  • Gail

    November 29, 2013

    Heaven,
    Girl listen you are playing with fire here.You do realize you are basing your entire life on your emotions.Do you think that is wise? I am shocked how u could do this in all honesty and I am very nervous for u.Do you understand why his wife does not like you?She don’t like you because now she has a rival.She has to split properties and money.It is not funny to those woman and I can assure u it is not a game.You can be killed on this thing.I was poisoned by my sister inlaw and cowife several times.I can not tell you how many times I have ended up in emergency in Pakistan because they had slipped me some kind of small poison to upset my stomach really horribly through my tea or coke.
    Listen to me clear it is not just the wife and her jealousy issues but she has to listen to her mother scream to get rid of u.In Pakistan marriages are not love marriages they are put together to form family ties so for u to say he does not love his wife is just stupid to be frank and shows your lack of knowledge towards the country and it’s culture because there is not such thing there.
    I would not listen to anyone because I was stubborn and could not see the horrible road ahead that waited for me.Sadly you are getting glimpses of the road ahead and yet you are still pressing forward.
    Pakistani people are all about the bottom line and that is properties and money.When u marry your husband u will become an heir to his property and he has to support u.That is never going to sit well or be accepted with your cowife or her family.Your husband is not in tension because he loves you understand?He is in tension because he knows the reality of bringing another wife in and the family feud that it is going to cause.That is the real reason why he told u to leave him.That country is poor and it is a big deal just to feed everyone daily.It is a hard life.Pakistani men always want visa and to get out of that country.I don’t know what kind of song and dance he told u but u would be a complete fool to believe him if he told u he don’t want to leave Pakistan.
    Tell me Heaven are u going to Pakistan on your Dime/money or is he paying.I can rty to walk u through this and show u the facts so u can figure out.I am worried about u and I sincerely urdge u if u do go do not marry him on this trip.It would be a grave mistake in my opinion.Please figure out his finances in reality ask to see bank statements.Do not take his word like he is some kind of Saint is my advise.

  • Laila

    November 29, 2013

    Dear Heaven, please forgive me but I feel you’re following your emotions rather than practical thinking. You’re so desperate to be with this man and I feel you’re also forcing yourself on his wife to be friends. I understand that you’re probably mature enough to get married and pop out a few babies. However…. Are you really ready to lead a polygamous lifestyle? it’s not an easy path. You’re young and have so much ahead of you. Why don’t you try and look at what you really want out of your life? Follow your dreams. I knew that when I was 18 I was an achiever in university, studying and going out with my friends and enjoying my singlehood. I think you’re not thinking things through. You are going on your gut feeling of love. Seriously, how long is that going to last?…. I’m not discouraging you but from the way you state your ideas I feel that you’ve given this man your mind and soul and you’re supposed to learn more about yourself at this age rather than some man. Love yourself and ask yourself, are you really ready? …. I find your statement about polygamy discourages a man from sleeping with prostitutes. There are some men out there who are good and some just downright rotten. Polygamy doesn’t define a mans nature or even behaviour. It’s up to him to be who he wants at the end of the day. Sorry but I really think you’re rushing matters. Being a good mum and wife comes after thinking hard. As I’ve stated in the past, a marriage is serious business. It’s not just a piece of paper. Please think wisely. This is at then end of the day your life, not his……

  • Isabell

    November 29, 2013

    Dear ladies,

    First, I would like to apologise not to be able to participate in this very interesting discussions and follow up on your experiences, I am buried in work (probably you all are but I guess I am not as you with all this multitasking happy ) and with all this situation I feel like the only one (even amongst all of you going through far much, according to my opinion, worse pain than I go through and I act very egoistically putting all the attention to me and at the same time not even saying a word about all of what you are saying about you. Thank you for baring with me and being so understandable and helpful even though.

    Second I would like to thank you very much for all your words. Really needed to talk to ones who actually can/do understand from their own experiences.

    I do come from a different culture but I am really not a bad person. For whatever in my life I have said: “I would never…” exactly that happened. And I said NEVER to married man, well I guess I needed to lear a new lesson.

    For me it was very new because when we met he was telling me about his culture and how they don’t hold hands, don’t have physical contact in public… but he never lets my hand off when in public, kissing me like it is the last kiss, he prepares me lunches and dinners, wakes up before me to prepare me a breakfast and iron my shirt and skirt for work while I take a shower, fills my bag with fruit for work, calls me to ask if I have eaten, takes me with him for all the business trips, sometimes he even choses the trips just to spend the time with me.

    The thing is… it is very hard to find a friend in a life who you would actually like to share your free time with… Can you imagine how hard is to find someone who you would be delighted to spend all the time with? And then we apply all this rules on how this person should come with: must be the right gender, religion, colour, status…

    Might be you are right. I have lost the right to say what is right and wrong. Might be the circumstances are just for me to leave whole thing a lone and not to even try to understand otherwise. Although during the years I have figured it out that if the guy should even be remotely “maybe”.. you should try, cause man that fit just right don’t come often in women’s life (or the other way around) or might be never.

    But then again… if one does not want to be with another, why would another even want to be with one? Just because of some rules people have put?

    I told him I cannot be with him. When he asked why, I told him I cannot hurt myself that much to live threesome family. My goal in this case is not to tell him to leave her. But to tell him I am not prepared to live the way he might be could. I am not dragging him into divorce, so I don’t want to be dragged into polygamy. Of course eventually if we end up together, one needed to do the sacrifice. But still he knows, If at the end of the day he is not going to be happy, I am not going to be happy… So why would we even go through all this to make ourselves miserable?

    I am letting him go, he keeps on finding a way to bring me back. I am very tired.

    Only thing I hope… If one day my husband will have the slightest doubt of weather to stay with me or not… I hope he tells me ASAP and gives me the opportunity to chose. I would leave. But this is only my opinion now. Hope never happens, but if it does.. will let you know how it went.

  • ummof4

    November 29, 2013

    As-salaamu Alaikum and hello to all,

    Ana, I agree with you. We cannot control our husbands. Sometimes they get “stuck on stupid” for a while. We only have to decide if we are going to go through it with them or leave them alone. However, we do have to stand up for ourselves and our children and demand our rights given to us by Allah. If the husband gives us the rights, Alhamdulillah. If not, that will be for Allah to deal with, not us.

    We as women often think that the grass is greener on the other side, when ours is the greenest. An example: Once a man was married for over ten years to two wives. The first wife had several children while he was married to both wives; she often wanted what the second wife had – a carefree life with the husband, no children, they could come and go as they pleased, take vacations, stay in bed all day and night, etc. She would often tell her husband that his life with the second wife must be happier than the one with her and the children, no worry, no stress.

    When the husband and the second wife divorced in an amicable fashion years later, the husband told his first wife that throughout the marriage, the second wife always complained to him that he must love the first wife more because she had his children. The second wife was jealous of the first wife because of the children. He never had children with the second wife.

    So the first wife was jealous because the second wife had no children, and the second wife was jealous because the first wife had children. See, you can’t please us women! So ladies, let’s not drive ourselves or our husbands crazy with our comparing situations. Just concentrate on having kind, equitable treatment from our husbands and keep asking Allah to make it easy for us.

  • ana

    November 29, 2013

    Aishah, Wa Alaikum As Salaam!

    The way I see polygamy working for the good of all involved is when everyone come together to help one another and share with a common goal. With us being Muslim, the goal should be to worship and serve Allah swt. Good deeds with belief in Allah is part of Worship. Helping one another is a good deed. You said, for instance, your co contributes nothing; she only takes. What good is she? As you said only your husband is receiving anything from the polygamous marriage. Perhaps your husband is accumulating some barakats for helping her, but at the same time he could be losing some by not taking more of an interest in you and your children.

    How I would see her as a help is if she encouraged him to spend time with you and the children when it is your time and she not interfere. It’s hurtful to the polygamous relationship when one person is all about self. The biggest problem I see in most of these marriages is that one or more persons is all about self. They don’t look at the bigger picture.

    I think you’re fighting a losing battle. You could talk to him till you are blue in the face and pass out. He’s going to chase her down and be at her beck and call until or unless he believes he is doing something wrong, and wants to change. Allah doesn’t change a person’s condition until they change what is in his heart. Your husband’s heart is with the girl and it appears to be exactly where he wants it to be – at least for now. Your best bet is to try to accept it and make the best of your life for you and your children. You’re only causing yourself undue stress by dwelling on the two of them and what they do. I definitely know it’s easier said than done. Nonetheless, we’re here to be a sounding board for you and to help as best we can. {{{hugs}}}

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    November 29, 2013

    @Heaven,

    To give us a better understanding, please tell us how you met your “boyfriend”. How long you’ve known him? Have you and he been having a Skype type/online relationship? What have your parents, family and friends said to you about your dilemma? How old is his wife?

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    November 29, 2013

    @Heaven,

    I’m a bit confused too about what is going on with you. I think it’s good that you are here with us, so you can talk about it, as it should help you sought things out better.

    In one breath you said you encouraged him to take her back, as you saw the hurt in his face and the pain he was in by not being with her. He refused, but then when you wasn’t expecting it, he took her back without letting you know first. You must not have been SINCERE when you initially advised him to take her back, cuz if you were, it wouldn’t bother you the way it does now. To take her back is to take her back, whether now or later. Are you saying you are upset because he didn’t do it the way you would have liked him to? Heaven, you need to try to understand that in life things will not always go the way we want them to, and more times they will not than they will.

    You said in one breath you want to be her friend and help with their daughter, but you don’t like her and she doesn’t like you. You tried befriending her and it didn’t work. So, it is all wishful thinking that you and she will come together. I somewhat understand what you’re going through with it. I don’t like my husband’s other and she doesn’t like me. Nonetheless, I made efforts to try to connect with her. It was wishful thinking on my part. Now, I realize it is best she and I don’t communicate. She and I have nothing to communicate with each other about.

    You said she slept with other men before she married him. Well, she is married to him now, and what she did before that marriage shouldn’t concern you. I can see how it may still bother him, if he thought he was getting a virgin when he married her and she wasn’t. Is your concern that she is still sleeping with other men and you fear marrying him and catching some type of disease? There is no way for you to know whether she currently has relations with other men or not. I think you are wise to want him tested before you marry him, though.

    Heaven, you said you intend to go to Pakistan soon to be with him. Do you and he intend to marry when you get there? Dating is not part of our way of life in Islam. You know this man and love this man; you say he loves you too. Then you intend to marry, get on with it or don’t make your intention and move on your separate ways. You said he is your boyfriend, but he should be “intended”/engaged to you, and you have plans to marry; otherwise, I’d advise you not to go to Pakistan to met him.

    If you do plan to marry, where do you intend to live? If you come back to the States and he remains in Pakistan with his wife, you should expect that he will live there with his wife as husband and wife. You would have to accept that she will have more time with him than you. It’s just how it goes.

    Did you say you haven’t met her? I thought before you said he introduced you to her, his family and friends and he looked at her in a way that indicated he didn’t like her.

    About him helping you with what you’re going through. He can’t. God controls the feelings in the heart. No one can remove the hurt and pain you feel, but God. How could you possibly expect him to do anything about the way you feel in your heart? The only thing that may make you feel better is if he divorce his wife, marry you and the two of you try to live happily ever after. The way I’m seeing it, he doesn’t intend to leave his wife. You say he doesn’t love her. Think about it; if he loved you that much and not her, he’d leave her in a heartbeat and make you his one and only. People have been known to divorce another to be with the one they really, truly, deeply love. He’s not willing to do it for you.

    For now, I think you need to make your intention to marry him, against all odds. You would have to agree to accept her as his wife. You would have to agree to not have as much time with him as she will, if you will come back to the States and he will remain in Pakistan. I can’t remember; are you in the States or Europe?

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    November 29, 2013

    As Salaamu Alaikum and peace to everyone this beautiful Friday or Saturday, whichever it is in your part of the world happy

    Ummof4, I did err and meant to put “existing”. Thank you much, my sister, for bringing it to my attention.

    About “Black Friday”, I will not partake in it. I’m not a people person, so I definitely don’t want to put myself through that chaos worried Are you kiddin me? Although, for those who venture out there, I see how it could be exciting. One of my biggest pet peeves is trying to find a parking space and others dashing to get the same space at the same time. It makes me anxious.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Aishah2013

    November 29, 2013

    heaven now I am really not following you.are u saying you have been with him 4 years or you will spend next 4 without him? I don’t get it.is he your husband/ did you have nikah? I’m confused

  • Heaven

    November 29, 2013

    I am sorry, I haven’t seen some of your Posts.

    @spirited: I see the Advantages in for expample.. that if you get along with your co-wife you have someone to talk.. you are sharing the same husband and maybe she will understand you better than everyone else because maybe she has the same Problem like you. Also as a mother, sometimes you just Need some space for you alone especially when they are still Little, so there is someone who will watch them and you know your children are in good Hands. But for your children as well. they will have a lot of siblings and I think its great to grow up in a huge Family. there is always someone they can Play with they can talk to…and for your husband of course. my boyfriend and I we discussed about having children and he told me he wants like 5 or 6 children, but I said no way, I don’t wanna have that much children. So if he has 2 wives he can fulfill his wish. And of course you always know that he is not sleeping with a prostitute. That would bother me way more..But of course therefore a friendship between all wives is required. Otherwise I think your life will turn out to be a nightmare.. also for your husband.

    @Gail: I know he is not a good guy with the way he is handling this Situation and treating me ( I can’t tell you how he is treating her or how she feels as they are not living together at the Moment… not even in the same City.) But he has been always honest about us. He never hide me from her or the other way round and he was always honest about his Feelings.I have always seen how much he loves me and how much he struggles with him being forced to take her back. It was absolutely a hard time for us both. He has been forced to take her back right after we became a couple, so everything between us was new. I could not see him being so much hurt and thats why i kept telling him to take her back but he always refused. He was so much afraid of losing me because of her and you really could see it on his face, so promised him to stay. I really thought that we could make it and go through this. Then I was in India in May and everytime we fought he begged me to leave him that we have to break up. I said no, we are strong enough to fight everything together. A few weeks later I found out that he has taken her back. Thats why he begged me to leave. And that is what hurts me so much. For me it was just too late now to take her back as my Feelings for him already grew so strong and the way I found out and what he did.. I mean the way he took her back made me feel so much cheated and he didnt even feel sorry. Maybe it would have ended differently if he would have left me and then went back to her, but he just didnt. I was so much hurt already when we met and he knew about it, so I just could not understand how he can do this to me. And maybe now you can understand why I am still not over yet. It really broke my heart and he is unable to help me with it to Forget it. When I am crying on the phone I can feel that it hurts him and he feels so much desperate. He keeps telling me not to cry, not to bother, not to think too much but he can’t do anything about it. And when I don’t stop crying he gets upset and he just puts down the phone.
    I am not very religious so I can’t turn myself to God like all of you do. I wish I was to survive this pain but I am just not. I do inform myself about Islam and everything. I started to learn Urdu and Hindi and I also started to read the Quran. In some sense I also like what its wirtten in the Quran and I can identify myself with some Points but to become a muslim its not enough. My boyfriend asked me or hoped that I would become a muslim after marriage but I told him that it wouldnt be fair to Islam as I would not be able to follow every rule and to accept everything.

    About the Hotdog and hamburger Thing.. that is just what bothers me the most at the Moment and the Point I have to be tolerant the most as I am so much jealous. ( I do have siblings but I was raised alone, so I really never experienced to share). Anyway.. I am a virgin and I know she had sex with many men before marriage already and lied about it to my boyfriend and his Family. So in a way I Kind of feel disgusted by the thought of sleeping with my husband after he slept with her. I mean I know if I would have a european boyfriend or husband he also would have had sexual intercourse with Girls before me but I would not think about it. But with this knowledge I just dont feel good with this fact. Maybe in some way it is his fault as he complained about it so many times. Or maybe it bothers me because I asked him to get tested before I am flying to Pakistan in already 2 1/2 weeks and he still did not. Or maybe it is because I never met her in Person and maybe that would be necessary to get along better.

    Ana, I am not trying to replace his wife. I am really searching for a way how to deal with it, with this stupid Situation. I love my boyfriend and I want him to be happy. But I wanna be happy as well and I don’t want to be in pain because she pushes me aside. Like Spirited said, I AM trying to be friends with her because I think that would be the best for everyone. But how can it work when no one is supporting me, not even my boyfriend? He makes it very easy for himself and keeps himself out of it.

  • Heaven

    November 29, 2013

    Of course I did not expect her to welcome me. But the Thing is that she agreed to it first when I still was against it. And when I agreed I was talking to my boyfriend on the phone and she was there as well.. telling that she wants me to be her friend, that she agrees … And everything turned out to be a big whole lie. She is only acting this way to impress my boyfriend. And therefore because I am complaining about the Situation I am the bad guy even though I am trying to make the best out of it, to become friends with her. But she is just a false Person which she showed me so I am no longer trying.

    Yes, she has rights. That is right. But you can’t tell me that I won’t have any rights when I am married to him. You can’t tell me that it is fair to me not to have a sexual relation to my husband while she has one, only because I have to live that far away from him. You can’t tell me that it is fair that I never even touched him, and after marriage it will remain the same? That she has every opportunity to be with him for 4 years now and I don’t? It does not seem fair to me. Not at all.

    You want to know why I am still with him? Because I promised him. I wanted to leave for so many times and I begged him to leave me but he does not. I promised him that I will stay with him no matter what. Divorce is not an Option for me. I do take marriage very seriously. I would never cheat on anyone and I am always keeping my promises.

    Where I see myself in 10 years? i see myself first as a wife and a mom. This is the Thing I want the most. I already finished School and I am applying for Universitys right now which I hope I can start next year. I wanna study Business Administration and I am planning to work for an Airline. But what I am really desire for is to be a wife and a mom. Every time his Little Girl is calling her mother ‘mommy’ it Kind of breaks my heart. Not because we don’t get along. I think that could be my child calling me “mommy”. I love her so much like she is my own child and I am overthinking every step because I dont wanna be a bad role model for her. Not as a mom, as a friend as she already has a mother and no one can replace her..and I dont want to replace her.

    I know most of you think that I am too Young and immature. But in fact I am not. I deal with things most 18 years old dont have to. I am willing to make sacifices and to take responsibility. Is it selfish to have the wish to get married and be married in your own home Country? Is it selfish to have the wish to live with the man you love and you are married to instead of living alone for 4 years without not even a single touch of your husband? I am sorry, but I can’t see it..

  • Aishah2013

    November 29, 2013

    Salaams.Ana no disrespect taken.that is my perspective on it as well.taking on young Co wife I have said it before if that is not induldging his nafs chasing the duyna i don’t know what is.I can see how it benefits him and her.he tries to tell me it benefits our family.if there are blessings that God may give for putting up /patience then OK.as a day to day contributing family member she is not.She showed herself.that’s enough for me.if I’m supposed to feel sorry for her as and take her on as our charitable family cause, well I’ve never had enough true information to feel that symphathy.I said ” that’s OK. ill chose my own charity”.I’m not selfish I do do charitable stuff. I said do the benefits of “helping” someone if that’s what he did ” outweigh” the harm or what they have taken from a youngerand older set of kids we are still raising? only God knows.he wants to justify himself.I would have not had an easy time I’m sure but I could have helped him pick out a 2nd.she might have been really someone in needhappy.yeah she wouldn’t have been 30 years younger…he tells me Co crystal for her mom and her family all the time and ” we r all she has”.. well “he” is all she’s chosen to have/ to her benefit.I told him she chose to come her under her circumstances,those are the consequences,she planned it all out,didn’t happen overnight,she can visit her family in another country other than the one she sought asylum from..so that’s that.I am inclined to agree with you.I had to set him right this week, last week seeming so involved in spending more time her after talk w imam/ not going her way on mine/ kid days ( I didn’t request that) then weekend and calls with excuse on my night giving me next 2 nights in trade…when I looked at my calendar, and I do keep one she has had both weekend nights 3/4 last weekends.so I pointed it out and requested both nights this weekend for balance.he got mad but next am said ” you are always right”.I said ” enough.I’m not the Islamic police of your behaviors.if u didn’t think I keep a calendar yes I do and u better keep one yourself”.so inshaallah he will do right this weekend.don’t talk to me about what I’m doing wrong and then do Ala Carter what pleases you…

  • ummof4

    November 29, 2013

    Ana, in your last post at 3:53 A.M. I believe you meant to say existing wife, not exiting wife.

  • ana

    November 29, 2013

    Oh, by the way, I had a thought, so I had to sign back onto the computer, as it would take me too long to write on the phone, but, here it goes:

    @Aishah, As Salaamu Alaikum,

    I mean no disrespect, but I have something to say, if you don’t mind. Your husband is quick to say to you – obey me; you verbalize too much and don’t concern yourself with the dunya (this world life), yet it seems all he’s interested in is chasing tail (co-wife). He has no time for anything else. Go figure i dont know sigh

    Now, I’m going to bed, Insha Allah.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    November 29, 2013

    @Gail,

    I thought you’d celebrate both Thanksgiving and Hanakah. I don’t celebrate holidays in the sense of the word; I simply see it as a festive time of the year. I just like when people are in good moods and spread the holiday cheer. I stopped celebrating all Non-Muslim holidays years ago when I first became Muslim. It doesn’t mean I don’t feel the festive spirit. I don’t go to anyone’s house to eat on Thanksgiving – firstly my family is non-Muslim so they don’t eat halal. I eat at my own home either with Alex and if not with him with self or go out to have meals with my wali/bestess. I like being with self, which means having meals with self. My wali/bestess and wife share their delectable eats with me and I bring it home and chow down. I went and picked up our meal from them this evening. Alex and I had a lovely dinner and enough to feast on for days. Allhumdulliah. It’s all just a fun time of the year whenever people are happy dancing

    Oh, and Gail, I have a difficult time talking with people on the blog in an age appropriate way. You did good. I’d suppose having children makes it easier big grin You had me cracking up though. Spirited said I’m funny. No. You are the one. You are funny LOL.

    Heaven is just typical of a wife who comes on the scene and says to the first wife, for instance, move over; get out the way; I’m here; He don’t want your old @$$ anymore; go play in traffic; your time is up. No one has time for that. They need to get a grip on reality. Polygamy is not about REPLACING a wife; it’s about becoming a wife along with the exiting wife. doh Gail, all I can do is shake my head in disbelief.

    @Spirited,

    I’ve been said by some to have a split personality i dont know Oh, well big grin

    Now, I need to hit the sack and get some shut eye.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    November 29, 2013

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Peace to All,

    In transferring info. from my old laptop to the new one, I stumbled upon an article about polygyny that was quite interesting. For those interested, the link is as follows:

    http://www.slate.com/articles/life/faithbased/2007/07/what_to_expect_when_youre_expecting_a_cowife.html

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Gail

    November 28, 2013

    Jenny,
    I hope you are enjoying Chanukah.I just love this time of year!

  • Gail

    November 28, 2013

    Heaven,
    one last thing I understand u are aware he has a first wife but that is nothing.Are u really prepared for a life of her manipulating him and talking bad about u to the inlaws and bringing you down in the families eyes? Are you ready for your husband to lie with u to keep his A$$ out of hot water at times?Are u ready for you mother inlaws word to be the last word.Keep in mind You are marrying in Pakistani culture and u are never going to be first on his list or second or third.He has Mommy,Daddy,Brothers,Uncles,first wife,kids,then you.
    Jenny is the exception to the rule.Jenny is the only person I have ever seen married to a Pakistani man that has first place even over his mother I will be honest.
    My point is if you are going to do this thing then u better take a number and get in line.
    You being from Europe and only 18 how long u will go before you burst a blood vessel and loose patience and become sick and disgusted and throw down your weapons and walk away?

  • Gail

    November 28, 2013

    Heaven,
    One more thing I did not comment on with u that I would like to bring to your attention.I will tell why I do not believe you are a good candidate for polygamy at this time.In all your post I never once heard you mention G.D or purifying your heart etc.. there are keywords that one picks up on when a woman is seriously considering polygamy.Although you have desire to get along with your future cowife she don’t share your same desire and instead of you feeling sorry for her and having patience towards her you are more worried about him sticking his hotdog into her hamburger.I hate to be the bearer of bad news but that is after all the hard reality of polygamy and how you are dealing with it is not good to be frank.I noticed it is all about you and how u feel and how he betrayed you etc…
    First of all one has to make up their mind if they love their self more or Allah/G.D more that they can go through this kind of pure hell and mental torture.I was a second wife and I was lied to by my Pakistani YES Pakistani husband for a total of 9 years before he confessed to me he was keeping his 1st wife/cousin on the side Islamically.
    If say on the 1% chance u feel that u are being lead by Allah/G.D to accept this man as a husband then I would suggest you even if u are Christian learn Islam because your husband is a muslim and it is his religion and u will need to understand Islam because even though u are Christian it will affect your life because he has grown up Muslim and that is what he knows and his family knows.
    This is what alot of people do not understand.Jenny and I are Jewish belief and our husbands are Muslims.I am not going to speak for Jenny because she may see different than me on this but for me I feel like I had to learn and have a knowledge of islam because my husband quotes and lives by Islamic values and I also very very importantly it was a must I learn Pakistani culture.
    I could write a book on Pakistani culture and how these people live and how ass backwards they are.I have lived off an on the last 10 years in Rawalpindi Pakistan in a joint family system which means I lived in my husbands home with his parents,brothers and sisters and grandfather and aunts and uncles.Over 30 people living in one very huge home.It was not fun it was embarrassing and humiliating for me.My husbands first wife and her family made fun on me and laughed on my face and I was helpless to do anything because I did not know the language.I was at the mercy of my husband thinking he was my protector when in fact he had to take it because he made the choice not to tell me he was still islamically married with his first wife.
    Now if u want this type of life be my guest hurry up book your flight.Dumb @sses come a dime a dozen.

  • Gail

    November 28, 2013

    Ana,
    Happy Thanksgiving to you and everyone all the other woman here on the blog who live in USA.My family and I are enjoying Chanukah and Thanksgiving both.This is the most favorite time of year for my family.I hope you are enjoying your Thanksgiving.

    Heaven,
    The best I advice I can give you about the woman on the blog is not to take personal what everyone is telling you.I would even suggest that for life in general.Use the blog as a sounding board and try to understand why the woman feel the way they do about a specific topic is my advice.I am from the school that a child is a child and I do not care if that child is a genius he is still emotionally a child.I will apply the same with you as well I will be blunt here and say if you are 18 I do not care how intelligent you may think you are or other people tell you that u are at the end of the day you are still 18 and you just do not have the life experience to understand the mind of a 30 and up logically speaking.
    It would be like taking a 5 year old and saying he has the mind of an 18 year old understand?That is just the way it is and the best that you can do at this point is logically think that hey this man has lied to me and I am not feeling good about this mess and when I am reaching out to others they are warning me to not stay and walk away.We do not know your boyfriend that we have some agenda against you to shag him understand?We do not even think he is a great catch from what u have told us of him and I would betcha that any woman on this blog knowing what u have told and met him would kick him in the B@lls and run the other way.Because after all most of us are over 30 on the blog.
    I am being silly here but I hope u get the point.

  • Aishah2013

    November 28, 2013

    I’m thinking of hilly where is she and Leigh who last year at this time helped w her husbands walima for 2nd wife,but it didn’t work out.any more Co wives for you Leigh?I’m glad I was able to spend time with husbands family then my family later today.if hub got to his family it was after me and kids left.that’s not a new habit…he will say its worrying about the dunya but I consider it our remaining parents are getting older,our Kidd’s are growing,we have to spend time with them.never forgetting Allah is the reason we have everything we do…so inshaallah everyone had a good day and will have good weekend.no crazy Fri shopping for me

  • Spirited

    November 28, 2013

    Salaam everyone.
    I hope you all are enjoying the holidays that happen to be on the same day (even if you don’t celebrate, its a chance to spend time with family since most businesses/jobs should be closed). Is anyone planning to try to tackle “Black Friday” sales? I’ve never done that because I don’t think any amount of a sale is worth the sort of animalistic behavior (so many people get hurt in the stampedes). But best of luck and stay safe to anyone who is going to go snag some deals. big grin

    @Heaven, I’m a little late, but I wanted to welcome you here as well! I hope you’re good and enjoying family time tonight! Everyone here has given you some great advice, in my opinion. Especially considering you’re so young! You’ve still got college, and all the experiences that brings with it to go. However, I must admit that your attitude regarding polygamy is years ahead of what I would expect at your age. happy You’ve said you wanted to hear thoughts on “how to do” things, not on “to do it or not”. That’s pretty interesting to me, sounds like you have an open mind. If you could, would you please share what you see as the advantages to polygamy? Coming from a non-muslim (or other religion without polygamy), I find it very interesting and am curious to see what you see. My answer to the question that you asked (about how to cope with the man being intimate with his first wife) is that its not easy. You need to have so much patience and focus on God. Its very difficult not to think about it but that’s why you need to focus on God and your own stuff when he isn’t with you. I’m recently going through this (my husband revealed his secret 2nd marriage in August this year) and I still have short bursts of outrage over the intimacy issue laughing Also to note is that you cannot and should not, control what he does with his wife. She is his wife after all (as you might be if you marry him). You seem to already be pretty easy to get along with, but you should put yourself in her shoes and try to consider things that way for another perspective. Just remember, it can never be like what married life would be like in monogamy. Although I guess in the regular marriage, you have to deal with affairs/adultery (but then again, many of us have had to deal with that too, plus the whole secret 2nd wife thing too…winking

    Also, Heaven, you said that you would have liked to have been friends with her, but that she is not a friendly person. That’s unfortunate, and it happens that some co-wives are friends, some are enemies, some just don’t get involved with each other. It depends on the women involved, their personalities, and their commitment level to religion and God. Well, I hope we hear from you again soon.

    @Laila, its good to hear from you again! I’ve missed hearing form you too, but it looks like things are going well for you! Oh I would love to meet with the women here too! Maybe some day in the future, Ana could set that up for those who are comfortable happy

    @Talhah, hello there. I would just like to say that I don’t think you’ll find many women disagreeing with your points. Its the men that would need that sort of talk.

    @Marie, glad to hear you’re doing good! Thank you for writing in with some really nice advice big grin Good luck in the coming weeks!

    @Ana, how are you doing, babe? You’re so funny! Sometimes in your writing you sound as laid back, calm and collected as Ummof4, and at other times suddenly a little scary! laughing (you can see it in your reply to Marie, just below). It’s cute!

    I’m glad my random talks are able to make you smile. My mom was actually just talking to me earlier, saying that my husband does NOT show that he cares about me. She was even saying that I should refuse any invitations to bring my husband to family things or just not take him at all because he doesn’t “deserve” to be with family. It honestly sounds to me like she wants him to grovel at her feet. But whatever is between them has nothing to do with me, so I didn’t reply to her comments and just let it drop. Although because of that, she thinks I’m brainwashed (specifically that his mother and he have done black magic on me). Admittedly, there’s never a dull moment laughing

    You’re right, sometimes I do say something — mostly from what I’ve learned from you ladies here — they say I’m wrong, but then another day they would say what I’d said from you guys in the first place. Other times, they will tell me something about polygamy, or having patience with Allah’s decisions and tests for us, and if I repeat the same thing on another day, they will say I have no idea what I’m talking about (like the whole “just saying things to make yourself feel better”winking. lol, my parents often consider me to be incompetent in everything for some reason. laughing I’m hoping that, Insha’Allah, getting into DO school will change their perspective (though my current profession didn’t, so who knows).

    Oh and please don’t think I’m angry at my parents or anything like that. I have nothing against them, I’m very happy with them and I know they’re also hurting and trying to sort things out. I’m just sharing some things with you that are on my mind at the moment. The only people to talk to about these things are Allah and you ladies here. I hope you don’t mind happy

    Ah, let’s see. So the pizza party went well! Everyone had fun, my husband and the army cousin made a lot of jokes, the food was good, the eccentric cousins made their impact as expected laughing It was a nice time and everyone wants to plan something again. OH lol I just remembered, at one point during the night, my husband intertwined my hand in his and held it for a while and the army cousin saw that and started singing Elton John’s “can you feel the love tonight” laughing

    Well, I’m gonna get some food. Talk to you ladies later! I hope your holiday days off are great.

  • ana

    November 28, 2013

    @Spirited, Wa Alaikum As Salaam!

    A smile came to my face when you said your husband was there spending time with you, and was going to attend a family gathering too. He shows he really does appreciate and love you. We all have our tests and trials that we struggle with. Insha Allah, they’ll bring us nearer to Allah. We’ll grow closer to Him.

    I kind of get what your parents do; they refute what you say, but then later say something else to confirm exactly what you’ve said. Sometimes, we don’t want to admit when someone elseknows what he or she is talking about LOL.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    November 28, 2013

    @Marie, Wa Alaikum As Salaam happy

    It’s so good to hear from you. I was thinking of you. I miss our blog family members when they are away for so long. I thought you probably had your little doll baby, and was enjoying him or her happy I know you will be quite busy, but when he or she arrives, Insha Allah, please stop in for a moment and let us know. It was good hearing from Maureen, as well.

    I really loved reading your post. I love hearing words of truth. It helps me so,so much. You said it all so nicely and precisely happy

    You really think I’ve made some improvement along the way? I still have a looooong way to go, but I’m working on myself. The big thing now I’m working on is accepting all of Allah’s decisions and stop complaining as much. For instance, I was vaccuuming today and accidentally broke a glass to a frame on a picture I haven’t had a chance to hang the picture. Instead of doing my freak out or cursing, after a moment of sigh I reminded myself that it was Allah’s will that it happened. My wali/bestess said the way he’s been working on accepting Allah’s will is by saying throughout the day, repeatedly, “I shall not will except as Allah wills.” I’ve begun to say it too. I’m very excited about trying to grow more in faith happy

    Marie, I was thinking about what Heaven said. She asked her “boyfriend” not to have sex with his wife. It’s amazing that women have the audacity to ask such a thing of a man.. Why the heck shouldn’t he have sex with his wife. It’s a major reason for marriage. It’s crazy, if you ask me. Then she says he does it with his wife out of a duty. surprise. I’d venture to say he’s getting some pleasure while doing his duty. How would she know anyhow. She’s not in his head… sigh

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Marie

    November 28, 2013

    Asalaamu alaykum all,

    I hope everyone is having a productive day/night and has remembered Allah much for all He provides.
    Alhamdulliah me,hubz and bump are fine. Last few weeks and we should have our new arrivle with us insha’alla

    @Maureen, Alhamdulliah on the the birth of your son, I love the name you chose, I hope ur all doing great.

    @Ana, I was thinking back to when I first joined the blog and remember you saying you was trying to put your point across in a nicer way. Alahamdulliah I think you are achiveing this.

    @Heaven, welcome to polygamy411, I agree with the ladies who have already replyed to you, this man is bad news.Your question was how will you deal with knowing that your “boyfriend” is sleeping with his wife, I doubt you will be able to. Beliveing muslim woman who accept the quran in its entirity accept polygamy. We have to accept that men are allowed more than one wife, we deal with the jelousy by turning to Allah. even if a muslim womans husband never becomes polygamous we still have to accept that it is permissable and could possible be part of our lives. As you are not muslim you have no reason to accept polygamy, other than the love you have for your “boyfriend” you stated he has already broken your trust and not followed through on his promises. If that continues (which it most proberly will) is your love for him enough to see you through the nights alone while he is with his first wife, will it be enough when you don’t get your own way, will it be enough when you see for yourself that cares and love his first wife. I feel because you are quite young you will begin to mourn a monogamous relationship, your love for him will sour and your marraige will break down.

    @talhah, I do agree that scholars have recommended that men do not enter into polygamous marraiges unless there are exceptional circumstances. The only problem there is Allah our creator made polygamy permissable. If a man is not going to listen to the pleas from his crying, heartbroken wife not to marry another why would he listen to anyone else. If the sight of his wife loseing her mind and being in all kinds of emotional termile is not enough to stop him do you think a recommendation from a scholar would make a man do a 360 and change his mind, when his creator has allowed him to marry more than one. If you would like to interprite the ayah you mentioned that way, that’s fine, but I don’t think that any beliveing man who has “married more than one” started out thinking that he is going to be unjust and treat the woman he married like rubbish, even if in the end he did become unjust surly that was not the intent of a beliveing man. Islam also encorages polygamy otherwise it would not be in the Quran as a solution. It is normal and acceptable to have one wife and to have more than one. Your mentioned many of the prohets which are an example for us all, as you stated some were polygamous,some had one wife and some were chaste, it is permissable for a muslim man to follow any of the examples.

    Much salaams to all

  • ana

    November 27, 2013

    Heaven,

    The ladies here have given you some very good advice. We all try to understand one another and we care about one another.

    You asked me how I cope with the jealousy and the thought that my husband and his other are intimate. At first it was extremely difficult. It was very hard for me to cope and I suffered tremendously. It was a terrible, agonizing feeling. The thoughts were enough to drive one crazy.

    I sought help from my best friend and his wife. He and I were friends for over twenty years and he’s very knowledgeable about Islam. He let me know that only God could help me, and could take the agonizing thoughts and pain away. So, I had to turn my attention to Allah completely. I thought I had already been doing it, but learned I hadn’t or else I would not be suffering the way I was.

    Once I began to get a better understanding of who God is, what He does and what He expects of me, it all got easier. The pain went completely away. I don’t think about my husband and her being intimate anymore. As I have said a number of times on the blog – he and she could go at it (sexually) all day and night and I wouldn’t care. I keep busy without even trying, doing what I like or need to do. He leaves and before I know it, he’s back surprise. I do, however, dislike her with a passion – not because she is with my husband, but because of her disposition. What I know of her makes me not want to know her and it has nothing to do with my husband.

    The problem I see with you and the situation that you are in is that you are not Muslim and do not intend to become one. I would NOT suggest that the reason you consider becoming Muslim be because you want things to work between you and your potential husband, as it won’t work that way either. Furthermore, God determines who will become Muslim.

    You need to know, however, that one cannot extract polygamy from the Quran, use it and neglect the rest of what is in the Quran, and expect to have a good marriage. A Muslim must accept the entire Quran and live by it (which includes polygamy, if one finds oneself in it). It is how spouses have peace and tranquility in their marriages. A Muslim who is a Believer must accept all that is in the Quran – not bits and pieces. The Believer has to give Allah full-time worship and not part-time worship.

    The problem I see with you is that you are Christian and your potential husband and his wife are Muslims. The two ways of life do not mix. It will not work. Allah did not write the script for it to be that way. You’re fighting a losing battle. Either your potential husband has to neglect his way of life -Islam – turn away from it or you have to become Muslim/believer for it to work. Even if you become Muslim, it would take time for faith to enter your heart. One cannot take the vow to become Muslim today, and have instant faith.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    November 27, 2013

    Aishah, I forgot to mention that the woman can give the dowry back (decline it) out of generosity, once he gives it to her

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    November 27, 2013

    Aisha,

    My understanding is there need only be two witnesses for a nikah and a dowry for the woman. The dowry could be whatever he could afford and whatever she is willing to accept. For instance, it could be a dollar bill or a box of chocolates. Some women ask for a house. Regarding the witnesses, of course for women to be witnesses, there would have to be two women and one man.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    November 27, 2013

    @Talhah,

    Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    If anyone here wanted to know what a scholar says, Insha Allah, they’d Google it.Thanks for PASSING BY. The best to you in your travels.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Aishah2013

    November 27, 2013

    once again”mahr

  • Aishah2013

    November 27, 2013

    spellcheck “majesty” not majesty.so is a verbal nikah a valid nikah? I wouldn’t buy a car or enter into any ” agreement ” without something in writing…it is possible 2 nd didn’t want something in writing due to nature of her asylum status/ nature of her claim.

  • Talhah

    November 27, 2013

    Assalamoalaikum Warahmatullah Wabarakatahu Dear Sisters in Islam,

    I just wanted to mention as a passer by that Islam encourages monogamy. In fact according to many of the scholars monogamy is mustahabb (recommended) and as we know performing a mustahabb action means earning hasanaat (reward) inshaallah.

    And it is also liked that he (the person choosing a spouse) does not increase upon one woman if he attains from her chastity/abstinence (i.e if marrying one woman keeps him chaste and allows him to avoid sins then he should not marry more than one) according to the most correct opinion in the madhab. (Page 1337, Al-Insaf by Al-Mardawi)

    Imam Ahmed Ibn Naqid Al Misri said: It is unlawful for a free man to marry more than four women. It is fitter to confine oneself to just one. (Umdatu Salik-Reliance of the Traveller)

    This is all from the Quran where Allah Swt says in ayah number 3 of surah nisaa: ”…but if you fear you will not be just then [marry only] one or those your right hands possess. THAT IS MORE SUITABLE THAT YOU MAY NOT INCLINE TO INJUSTICE”

    Monogamy is mustahabb (recommended) and encouraged over polygamy in Islam. Never mind the fact that Allah has created it as the norm of humanity since the time of Adam where he would marry each son of his to ONE daughter.

    It is also the Sunnah of most of the Prophets starting from our father Adam and then including most other prophets (eg Seth, Idris, Nuh, Lut, Ishaq, Yusuf, Ayub, Haroon, Samuel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Yunus, Ilyas, Zakariya etc) with the exception of a few celibate (eg Yahya, Isa) and polygamous prophets (eg Ibrahim, Yakub, Dawud,Sulaiman).

    And above all monogamy is one of the greatest Sunnahs of our Prophet Muhammad saw.

    As Muslims we must love what Allah Swt loves. Like what he likes. And prefer what he prefers for us.

    Jazakallahu Khayran

  • Aishah2013

    November 27, 2013

    different topic.what makes a nikah valid? ..I believe hub was talking to Muslim brothers last week including his dad ( who is acting as my wali now..like I said I had a wali when we married (Muslim brother friend of friend bad idea.I didn’t know him so years later when I need one I didn’t have one..my hub suggested his dad ( maybe a little sorry after he did) he said OK..and he is aware of what’s going on.so I had a wali,2 witnesses,imam,majesty (just small amount of money and ring ),and a written notarized dated contract…it was low key ..some food afterward so that was walima.and it was not secret.very low key,but known…so I think these Muslims brothers trying to give him advice ( who knows what men say when they r together!)so his dad said hub thought his dad was mad at him and didn’t like his second …but hub indicated that his nikah was valid cause he had 2 witnesses and imam ( I’m kinda not sure about imam part cause the masjids he normally went to where unaware of his nikah)but indicated no papers for nikah / nothing written and he has never admitted to date of nikah or shown papers).also had said once that she ” refused” a gift or mahr so was it a valid nikah?.so maybe it doesn’t all matter.another Aishah stop driving yourself crazy bout the secrets still….but sounded
    like maybe he was getting some talking to and advice from other Muslim brothers.ultimately only gotta let God guide you!

  • Laila

    November 27, 2013

    Dear Ana, Gail, Jenny, spirited, Aishah, KA126, and my lovely Lynette. ( hugs ) missed you today winking as you guys were on my mind. Maybe if it’s okay we should meet some day. I learnt so much from you all. Miss you and love you guys. Gotta run to work. Leaving my home in a mess! He he he he he….. Couldn’t care less this time round.

  • Lynnette

    November 27, 2013

    As Salaamu Alaikum, and peace to all,

    @ Heaven,

    I have absolutely no idea of what to say to you. The situation you describe sounds completely untenable for both you and the wife; your request that he abstain from marital relations with his wife is completely inappropriate, and you seem to lack the insight to see why or how this situation is a problem. Your feelings, wants, or desires do not trump those of the wife (who has rights) or the little girl.

    Listen to Sister Judith. She explains it all very nicely.

    I wish you peace, Heaven.

  • Laila

    November 27, 2013

    Dear Heaven, welcome! I’m typing fast because I need to go to work. Okay here goes. There is NO COPING WITH JEALOUSY. It subsides over time. It takes a whole lot of time, clarity and also a bit of understanding that he will still make love to his wife. Secondly, u said that she’s bitchy, mean etc…. Hey…. Would you be all lovey dovey when he brings in a third? … Do u really understand the concept of polygamy? It’s not just an outlet to get married and have sex in a legal or proper manner but it boiled down to much much more. Are u willing to work hard and use ur finances to run ur future household for many years to come till he stabilizes? Are you okay with the though that some days in the week he’s not going to be around for u? Get ready to accept schedules / planning in advance just to get attend functions etc. Also understand that ur position as a new addition is so crucial. Meaning are u willing to compromise nd sacrifice?

    If you’ve decided to still get married and agree to what I’ve said, then congratulations in advance! But before you decide to be part of polygamy, UNDERSTAND AND LOOK AT IT AT EVERY ANGLE. what I’ve stated is only the tip of the ice berg. I agree with Jennys stance, run while you can winking a single guy can provide more time, love, and better financial stability. U don’t have to plan with him to attend weddings, functions, u get to see him everyday and he’s sexually involved with u only. Isn’t that nice? Think about it? Sometimes we think we have all the answers and we are all geared up and ready. His wife was mean to you and you’re already complaining….. Hey I went through worse! Don’t complain so much about her personality, u could have your own weaknesses too dear. The best part goes to him. Hes playing with u. Another thing, men no matter how demanding, bitchy, idiotic their wives get, will never get a divorce unless they know for a fact that their marriage cannot be salvaged at all. My husband and I sometimes fight like cats and dogs but still my old man comes home promptly and asks for his home made dinner. Marriage isn’t a game or a piece of paper. It’s a bond between two people and men as stupid, flirtatious or plain itchy down there will never get a divorce easily. Hope u understand.

  • Aishah2013

    November 27, 2013

    Heaven are you still in school/ formal education? what is your plan for yourself? your goals/ aspiration/ career plan / life plan/maybe being able to support self/just plans for future separate from your relationship with this man? and where do you see yourself 10 years from now? are you still living at home with your family..do you trust the opinions of people around you who care about you or are you unable to talk about it?…you said something about your dad not being real present for you…I kind of am sucked into interest in you because my husband chose a much younger cowife (she was 21,he was 48,I was 49 when it started..times flies….but the generation gap does not narrow get closer.Co had mentioned her dad died. when she was 5 and her mom remarried when she was 10..maybe something went missing/ maybe something happened to her with stepdad, but and honestly when you are young its a “me” and “I want ” time of life….when we met again (and no first time not pretty I found her waiting in my truck at masjid waiting for my hub and saying she was his ” friend”.I verified my place as his wife and told her to leave (sitting in a running truck in bad neighborhood not smart idea)she said I was crazy.maybe.when we met again she was angry cause I agreed to work with them and a schedule was needed,so the kids were not neglected. by his choices.she agreed to respect the kids time and my time but the opposite happened.I asked her to consider what to tellthe older kids almost her age.she had no answers.I said if this happened in your family what would you want to be told? I said if your moms hub took another wife or your brother ( with a newborn)wanted to take another wife what would you want to be told and how would this affect your family?again she had no answers.she lacks emphaphy for how a family,especially with children,can be hurt and affected.the only thing she cares about is meeting her own needs.selfish yes very.and my hub he is equally beside her…and I said to him would you like our daughters to grow up and get with older married men with families …he described her as humble and nonthreatening…and traditional.I said yeah not humble if u think you are center of things.as nonthreatening as a forest fire or flesh eating bacteria…I guess men like women to come to them like they are sage wizards of knowledge.they get to start over w someone who wldoesnt know their faults.PS.how did you meet? internet or he is a teacher?

  • Jenny

    November 27, 2013

    @ Heaven,

    Don’t tell me you really expected the wife to come running in your arms gushing with love??? laughing laughing laughing laughing

  • Heaven

    November 27, 2013

    I never expected sympathy here as I am not coming here for advice about my relationship but for coping with this Kind of Lifestyle. Of course there are a lot of ‘I’ in my Statements because I have been trying to explain you that I am sure about this relationship. He is sure about our relationship as well but this does not matter to me here on this site because I am struggling with it right now and I am searching for help My boyfriend does not seem to care very much of it as he is only trying to get what he wants and he makes it very easy for himself right now. The question that is on my mind is not “what to do?” its “how to do it?”
    Ummof4, you can think that I am selfish but I don’t think its selfish to overthink your whole life and in some way to give up in some sense your own opinion and culture for the Person you love and to tolerate things for this Person.

    Ana,
    how do you cope with it? I mean so many couples live this life, so this can’t be the solution. I will always know that he has sexual intercourse with her. And as Long he gets tested I think knowing its ok for me. But what do do while he is there with her? Knowing that they do this while he is with me is one Thing, thats ok. But sitting here alone knowing they are sleeping with each other right now.. how to handle this?
    I think if we both wives would get along better it would work out. Or at least we could tolerate each other. But we hate each other.. we are not getting along at all. I tried it but she is really mean and bitchy
    .. and not only to me.

    In any way.. thank you all.

  • ummof4

    November 27, 2013

    As-salaamu Alaikum and hello to all,

    Judith, I love your analogy of walking the plank.

    Heaven, I stand by what I said concerning your situation. However, based on your comments, “I know exactly what I want and what I don’t want.”, it still sounds selfish to me. There are a lot of “I” in your statements.
    None of us can change your mind if it is made up. You will do what you want to do. You came to us for advice and we are giving it to you. I think you may have expected sympathy, but instead received the cold, hard truth from us experienced women.
    This is a site for women who are in polygyny or advocate polygyny. We are just trying to look for the best in each situation and give advice as best we can. We are not mean, but honest.
    Only you can make your life decisions. I pray that you decide wisely.

  • ana

    November 27, 2013

    Heaven,

    I didn’t care much of anything about my husband until he let me know he was going to marry another. His and my marriage then got way better. So I understand how your boyfriend’s wife wanted her husband back after she realized he was seeing you.

    Your boyfriend may have complained to you about his wife, but it means nothing. Everyone has problems in relationships.

    For you not to feel the pain, your boyfriend will have to divorce his wife or continue to lie to you and say that he will not have sexual relations with her.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Judith

    November 27, 2013

    Yes, Thanks to our Creator for everything.
    I haven’t been able to be by in awhile, and this may continue for a bit. Heaven, since some of the women here responded to you, I backed up a bit and read your post. I know that my describing the plank you are walking, and where it is located on the ship won’t stop you from walking it. I hope the water is not too cold, and you are not too far from land.

    Hugs, one and all.
    j

  • Heaven

    November 27, 2013

    Ok so, I am not forcing him to leave his wife. I am not doing this. I know how Pakistani marriages are working. All I am asking for is helping me to deal with it. I asked him not to sleep with her for the next 3 weeks until I will be in Pakistan. He will be with her anyway for only a couple of days as they are not living together. And I asked him to do me this favor to help me build up my trust again.
    And yes, he hates her, He really does due to her behaviour towards his Family and her own child. She is not very loving and a very mean Person. She was the one who actually already applied for divorce but regret it the second we both fell in love. He was refusing her and I kept telling him to take her back because I couldn’t stand the thought of him suffering so much. But he wanted to be with me. And one day I found out he had been with her for 2 months. And at this Point for me it was just too late. It hurt me to much. The big issue in this case is not that I have to share my husband. Its about my trust. You know.. so many men have flings outside the marriage with many many women so I think it will take a while to figure out how not to be in pain while knowing he is in bed with her but isnt this better than having a man who is sleeping around and maybe get some diseases you dont know about? And for sure the last Thing I want is him to abondon his own child.

    I think that you ummof4 tell me that I am selfish and I don’t care about her is really mean. I did care about her and her Feelings but all I got back was that he tried to hurt me. I tried to build up a friendship with her, I was being nice and I made the first step towards her. But she rejected me, even though she acted in front of my boyfriend as she was being nice to me as well. But she is just not a nice Person. And to be honest she does not care at all about me as I am living 8.000 km away from him. So I am no threat at all for her right now.

    You may all think that I am Young, naive and so much in love, but thats just not the case. I have been informing myself about Pakistani marriages, culture, language, I have been thinking about polygamous marriages and I never entered this relationship only thinking with my heart. I never turned off my head, so I am well Aware of all of this.

    Its just it hurts me right now that he is always so much unable to take decisions, that he is not supporting me by dealing with it. It hurts me that I cant be married in my own home Country. I am scared that if I would marry him in Pakistan in 3 weeks that I will go to jail. And I am only trying to find a away to be happy in this Situation and everyone getting along with each other. This is what I want. Nothing more. I know exactly what I want and what I dont want. I dont think marrying a man who is already married isnt that bad, even though I always wished to have a romantic relationship with a happy end I am open for it but I have to get used to it. And therefore I Need help.

  • Jenny

    November 27, 2013

    I’m sorry Heaven, I must be blunt here ~ as I am the blunt one.

    In a Western Country (U.S & even Europe), this man appears to be nothing more than a pedophile ~ wanting his sweet young thing.

    Trust me, he does not hate his wife. Pakistani marriages are different and the concept of “love” is a foolish thing. He is married to his wife for the main purpose of binding a family and to keep inheritance in the family. I assure you, he does not hate her. Yes, he is going to continue to have sex with her because that is his duty and is not going to screw up his family. Yes, he will marry you, but he will not leave her.

    Both me and Gail have been married to Pakistani’s for a very long time. We know the games. Just read some of the posts. There are a few of us here with Pakistani husbands. I have a good husband, Gail is reasonably happy, but everyone else seems to crash and burn. Listen to their stories.

    Often times I would say I would run away like my shoes were on fire, but in this case, I would jump from the bridge to make sure everything else doesn’t catch fire!

    There is no being “friends” and “stuff” with a man. Ever. Period.

    Sorry to say these things, but you need to take off your rose-colored glasses.

  • ummof4

    November 27, 2013

    Heaven, I read your latest post. I believe you said you are not having sex with him. You just want him not to have sex with his wife because of his relationship with you. Even if you are not having sexual intercourse with him, he is committing a sin in Islam if he is being alone with you, touching you, kissing you, hugging you or professing his love for you in private. So not having sexual intercourse does not excuse his incorrect behavior.

    Reverse the situation. If he was married to you, how would you feel if he introduced you to another woman that he was having a relationship with?

  • ummof4

    November 27, 2013

    As-salaamu alaikum and hello to all,

    Heaven, you sound like an intelligent young lady who unfortunately has been used by a man who wanted to have sex with you. Because you seemed to have some morals he told you that he loved you and did not love his wife. Believe me, he loves his wife and child very much. He has not married you because he wants to keep having sex with you with no commitments, and you are letting him. You have stated more than once that you are in pain over this situation. But then, once you see him again and you two have sex, the pain goes away and you only feel love for him. That’s how most women are; we are weak for men who profess their love for us. Especially if they say that they love us more than another, in this case, his wife.

    You keep saying that you are mature, but don’t want polygyny. Then that means you want him to leave his wife and child to be with you. That does not sound mature, it sounds very selfish. You have no right to ask him to leave his family for you. You have no right to make demands on him, such as demanding that he not have sex with his wife. You have not rights at all in this situation, and he owes you nothing.

    His wife doesn’t like you, why should she like you? You are a young woman who is having illegal sex with her husband! What is there to like about you? You may think you are a kind caring person because you bought presents for their daughter, but you are not kind or caring at all to his wife. You have no respect for her or her marriage. All you are doing is causing her pain.

    My advice to you is the same as the other ladies. This man is a liar and an adulterer. It is in your best interests to leave him alone. The pain you will feel in letting him go will probably be less than the pain you will be in if you continue to stay with him and continue letting him use your body for his pleasure. (I’m sure he gives your body pleasure too. It’s called lust, not love, which is being fulfilled each time you two are intimate.)

    May Allah guide us all to what is correct.

  • Heaven

    November 27, 2013

    Sorry, I did not see your post, ana. It not like he was hiding his Family. I knew about it from the beginning. He introduced me to his Family and his friends.
    He would never sleep with me or any other woman before marriage.

    I was trying to leave him several times, we tried to be only friends and stuff but we always came back together.

    He know that I am not becoming a muslim. I like my Religion even though I am not very religious. He know that I am very understanding and that I am open for his culture and Religion, but I am not giving up my own identity.

  • Heaven

    November 27, 2013

    I know he does not love her because you can just see it. He hates her and you can see it the way he Looks at her and the way he reacts when she is around. I know he is sleeping with her because it is his duty as a good husband. And they have been seperated. I have seen it.

    Even at my Young Age I am 100% ready to get married. I know I love him and I wanna marry him, but I don’t want to be hurt anymore. I just can’t take it anymore. I really do love him and Ive been through a lot of pain, not only with him. I am just trying to find a way to cope with it. I never thought of having a life of polygamy as I always thought of a romantic relationship with only 2 and not 3. I was thinking about it a lot the last past months and I must admit it does has a lot of Advantages. My only Problem is that I am very jealous and I really don’t like her. I have my conditions, but he is unable to give me the things I am asking for, which makes me very insecure and let me doubt about his Feelings. I am trying to act very mature with this Situation, but what I feel really is breaking my heart. It’s not like I am living in a farytail. I am not imagining my life like in Disney Movies with him. I know about the Situation and ist difficulties.

    And yes I do think that his daughter deserves his time and Attention. My dad never had been there for me so I Keep telling him to spend more time with her. But he doesn’t because he is living in a different City. Her second birthday is in 3 days and I bought some stuff for her. I really love her, she is a beautiful kid. I also made him think about presents for her.. we were discusisng what to buy and stuff. I must say for my Age I am very mature, so I am searching for a way to make it work. And I think being mature does not mean to live a monogamous life. I am just so much hurt because he betrayed my trust and he didn’t Keep his promises, and he is not helping me with it. He think by Keep hurting me it will help me to get over it because when he hurts me with someone new he hopes that I will Forget this other pain.

    My boyfriend is 34. At the beginning I did not want to get involved with him at all. But he fought for me and that’s how I fell in love with him. I love him really really much and I am willing to try this Kind of Lifestyle. We wanted to get married in 3 weeks in Islamabad but due to my pain I cancelled it again.

  • ana

    November 27, 2013

    Hello Heaven,

    Welcome to polygamy 411. I know you are very young and it will be extremely difficult for you to run away from the relationship that you are in, but I think you should try to draw the strength to do exactly as Aishah said, leave this man. He should be ashamed of himself to be involved with you without being married to you. I think he is taking advantage of you right now. If he wasn’t, he would be married to you. He knows his religion (Islam) forbids fornication and adultery. Islam permits a man to have four wives at one time. He was allowed to marry you. If he has a reason not to marry you, then he should not be with you – bottom line.

    You shouldn’t trust anything this man says. You don’t know if he ever was really separated from his wife, not that it matters. He should not be having a relationship with you without being married to you.

    Heaven you need to know that many men when they are already married will say anything they can think of to a women they wants to be with to convince the women to do it. They always come up with some excuse for not leaving their wives and the excuses are usually not true. Even if there were some truth to it, the problems aren’t enough to cause them to leave their wives. How do I know this? Because they are still with their wives. Most of the time they very much love their wives. Think about it; Heaven, do you think you would have gotten involved with this man had he told you that he has a wife and children whom he love, has no intention to leave them, and yes, he still have sexual relations with his wife? I doubt it. Most women would do as Jenny here says; they’d run like their shoes were on fire.

    You are very, very, very young and come across as a very intelligent young lady. Give yourself a chance to have a better life with someone nearer you age and if he is older make sure he is not married. If he is married and is permitted to have more than one wife, make sure he marries you before you get involved intimately with him and make sure he will not try to keep you as a secret wife, but will respect you and let it be known that you are a wife, particularly let his other wife know.

    Heaven a woman’s body is very, very special and should only be shared with a husband. You should want to be with a man who will love and respect you.There are a lot of eligible men available out there. You don’t have to devalue yourself by being with a man who is older, with a family and doesn’t want to commit to you, but want to use you for his pleasure. You are better than that – way better. Heaven, don’t give this man the time of day anymore.

    If you read this blog, which entails a lot of reading, you will know there are many men, especially Pakistani (usually Muslim) out there who are luring non-Muslims in as secret wives or just to have sexual relations with them with no commitment. Don’t fall for it.

    You asked how you’d cope knowing he will be intimate with her. It takes a lot to learn to cope with something like it. Don’t let him fool you to believe that he won’t be intimate with her. Most of them lie about it. It takes a lot to overcome jealousy, as well. I won’t go into how you could do it, as I would speak to you from an Islamic perspective and it would take more than a sentence to explain. You’d need to read some of the blog.

    Heaven, please do yourself the biggest favor that you can, put an end to the relationship with this man. Use it as a learning experience for going forward. You have a long life ahead of you (of course based on your age, not other factors, as no one knows how long we have); don’t waste it on someone who you clearly know is not concerned about your best interest and well-being. You can do way better than being with this man. Don’t sell yourself short. You’re better than that thumbs up. Don’t go for the okie doke. I don’t think your mother raised a fool….

    Please let us know how you are doing. We are here, if you have any questions or want to discuss it further.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Aishah2013

    November 27, 2013

    mwelcome to the blog.just scroll back anywhere.you are 18.how old is your boyfriend”? I would advise you to try to be very mature and run as fast as you can.live your life,develop your 18 year old very young self.I’m certain you can’t know ” he doesn’t love her” and ” is only staying for the child or ” that he would not sleep with her”.do you not think that child deserves his dads time and attention?you don’t actually know they were separated, he will tell you what he thinks you want to hear.I don’t hear you saying you want to accept Islam, marry him, and live a life of polygamy.do you have any senior (older more experienced ) people that you turn to for advice? this would be the time to do that.I’m guessing you are involved with an older man.(as you are like highschool age)from it all seems exciting and fairy-tale at this point.from a distance.but all sounds like a very very bad idea.

  • Heaven

    November 27, 2013

    Hi there!
    When I met my boyfriend from Pakistan, he was seperate from his wife, and when we became a couple his wife started wanting him back. A few months later he took her back behind my back after a long fight against his family and hers. He betrayed my trust which is the biggest problem at this point at the moment. He loves me very much and I love him as well. We broke up several times but we always got back together. The problem is that he wants us both but I am not sure if I can cope with it as I am a 18 year old european christian girl. His wife said that she wants me to be my friend but when I made the first step towards her by sending her a friend request on facebook, she ignored it and changed her profile picture to a picture of them both to hurt me. Maybe I should tell that we are having a long distance relationship which means I am no threat for her so she feels like she doesn\’t have to fear anything. I asked my boyfriend not to sleep with her until I will be with him to discuss this sit
    uation, but he refused. But I don\’t understand why, because he doesn\’t love her, he is only with her because he has been forced and because of his child. After a long fight I finally promised me to stay away from her for those last 3 weeks. It really hurt me because I think that if you really love someone it should be done without saying and now doubts coming up if he really loves me. In any way, what he has done really hurts me and that he does not care about my feelings in this situation really kills me, but I am seriously thinking about trying this kind of relationship as it does have a few advantages. So now to my questions. How is life in these kind of relationships and marriages? How to cope with the other wife? I don\’t like her. To be honest I really much hate her and I don\’t want to have anything to do with her. How is it like when you know your husband is someone elses bed? I am really jealous and I just hate this feeling. Can you help me to understand all of this and maybe give me some advide?

  • Spirited

    November 26, 2013

    Hey all,

    @Gail, thanks for clearing that up, I was thinking about your husband’s sister when I asked laughing Yep, I definitely am aware of how much emphasis is on divorcees in Pakistan. It’s not a pretty situation she is stuck in sad I pray that things go well for her moving forward.

    @Laila, thanks for sharing more of your past situation! I especially liked some of what you said when you mentioned that if a man is willing to take on more wives and extend his family, then he should step up in everything. Also that he shouldn’t take any wife for granted! Very important to remember this stuff, it’s just too bad not many men do.

    I hope everyone has been well. Its been pretty quiet here the last few days. I figure that just means everyone’s day-to-day events are moving along smoothly, or that peeps have been busy. Both of which are good things big grin

    I don’t have much to update on my end but that’s more because of husband and I being busy with different things than anything else. He was here yesterday and out of nowhere thanked me for being patient with him and vowed that he will make & keep me happy. I smiled & said “ok.” He had an evening shift today so he didn’t have to run early. He called up his family over in Pakistan & we spoke for a bit before I had to run and meet up with my sister and a cousin to watch the new Hunger Games movie (which we all enjoyed). He had to go soon after I left, so he told me to go ahead even though I wanted to just stay and catch a later showtime happy.

    My mom said that she spoke with my mother-in-law as well, but my mom was pissed that my husband’s mother was speaking to her in a cheerful tone. She said his mother should have been full of shame and sorrow, how dare she smile and think everything was going well. It’s all because of me, etc., etc., etc. Like I said before, my parents haven’t quite decided where they’re going to stand (I think). If I try to bring up points from Islam, she says I’m just trying to make myself feel better (as if what I’ve said is wrong, even though some of what I might have said is the same as what she might have said earlier). laughing Well, hopefully things will settle down, in time. Insha’Allah.

    Tomorrow, a few cousins are having a pizza party, one of them booked a place and everything. Its going to be 12 people, would have been 17 except for sudden things coming up, but it’s also good that my husband is going to be there as well — not many of my cousins’ spouses like to mingle like he does. It should be a fun evening big grin Especially with the inclusion of 1 or 2 of the more…shall we say…”eccentric” cousins laughing

    Also, randomly, my sister locked her keys in her car right before we went to go watch the movie today. I was halfway to the theater and she calls me to pick her up. Then we’re going and she thought we were going to be at a different theater (I had forgotten to tell her which one we were going to, my bad laughing ). I still made good time though, and we ended up missing only about 10 mins. Afterwards, we three went to an eatery, said bye to the cousin, then we got my sister’s car unlocked, checked on a few things for my mom, my sister went to a friends’ house, I came home to an empty house, finished cooking dinner that my mom had started before she left with my brother, and sat in the blanket on a couch, watched tv and fell asleep for half an hour. And there we have the exciting play-by-play.

    Well, I’m going to hit the bed. See you ladies tomorrow. All the best to you all <3

  • ana

    November 26, 2013

    Dear Jenny & Gail,

    I hope you both enjoy “Hanukkah”. It’s amazing it falls on the same day as “Thanksgiving.” The various holidays falls like that quite often.

    Potato Pancake

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    November 26, 2013

    Okay, on a more serious note big grin

    Let us give thanks to our Creator for everything everyday.

    Thanksgiving Turkey

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    November 26, 2013

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Peace to All happy

    To those who celebrate the day of “Thanksgiving”, I’m hopeful you will enjoy your day.

    Turkey Carving smiley Turkey says, “How do you like that, huh? hee hee

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Gail

    November 26, 2013

    Spirited,
    My brother inlaw is married to an American woman from PA.She sent him papers for divorce last year and he signed and sent back to her but I think she did not file the papers at court house.I am pretty certain he is going to file in Pakistan.She is not his cousin.
    My husbands sister is married to my husbands exwife brother and they have been separated for 2 years.My father inlaw went back to Pakistan last week and he is going to file her divorce.It is sad because this was her second marriage and both of her marriages were to 1st cousins.U know Pakistani men who will want her now that she is 2 times divorced besides maybe some old widow man.Her life is not looking really great sad to say.

  • Gail

    November 25, 2013

    Jenny,
    I am SO excited about my new business.I am making plans and getting my business outline together and researching every little detail.It is a new time in my life and I feel so empowered and thankful for this new adventure in my life.I had took a Real Estate class years ago knowing I would eventually buy Real Estate for my retirement.
    I have been doing alot of self reflection the past few weeks and it has been nothing short of amazing.I have been doing so much work on my emotions that it has triggered this amazing change in me to want to spread my wings and fly.I am now in this transition that I want to create.When I went to the museum yesterday I was just blown away and amazed.It was the first time I stopped and just looked at the paintings.As I was standing there looking and being amazed at how an artist could take something from his mind and put it on canvas and do it in such a detailed way I became overcome with emotion.I always knew the importance of being detailed but yesterday as I was standing there suddenly I knew I had to not just be detailed I have to embrace the details in my life like an artist does on canvas.So now my real work has began and I am going to embrace this new adventure in my life and really focus on the details to make it into something amazing.
    I love NYC so much it has always been a city that amazes me and makes me feel so happy when I am there.My children also love NYC and talk about going to see the Statue of Liberty and I would love to go to Central Park.Sadly anytime we are in NYC we are in transit going to or from Pakistan so we have never been able to stay more than a day in the city.
    My husband and I are getting along really great these days.He is becoming much more spiritual and listening to me Yap on about Kabbalah and how much I LOVEEEEEEEE it.I can’t get enough of it these days.
    I am so happy everything is going great for you.I always think about u and wonder how u are doing.I think I should tell you that u have inspired me.I listen to you and everything you are doing.I just love your energy and your natural drive to succeed.You have been such a great inspiration to me.I honestly think this is the most excited I have ever been in my life.Thank You for being such a personal inspiration to me.

  • Jenny

    November 25, 2013

    @ Lynette,

    That was very sweet of you to say! I do work hard, but I’ve been that way my entire life ~ not just lately. My father was the ultimate workaholic. 29 years he was with one company and never took a sick day!

    Don’t laugh, but we are starting another business ~ a driving school ~ goes in well with what we do already. Another thing on my plate! laughing I’m starting to teach others how to do some of the billing. If I can get rid of the billing ~ wow! ~ that frees me up for much, much more!

  • Lynnette

    November 25, 2013

    As Salaamu Alaikum, and Peace to All,

    @Sister Laila,

    I am so impressed by what you’re doing. Though I am not a trained teacher, I am passionate about the education of children. Opportunity to learn is something that I feel is taken for granted in the U. S., rather than appreciated for what it represents. I also appreciate that you are covering life skills

    No slashing and burning BMW’s is ever in order…we can trade them in winking

    I wish I could offer you more than best wishes for the success of your schools. Just know that FedEx delivers the world over, and if you need something I can procure for you…I’ve got you! (By way of Ana, of course…winking

    Sister Jenny,

    If I have ever known a person more deserving of a Bentley, I can’t think of who it might be. You work hard, and while you may be as tough as nails, you have a heart of gold! I love to see people prosper from their hard work. Your prosperity is a blessing to your family and your community; and you’ve been a blessing to me as well.

    @ Sister Isabel,

    I have read the thread. I doubt you have room in your world-view for values judgments, and I appreciate your straight-forward approach. With that said, I add these few ideas:

    Nothing in life is free. Everything comes with a price. If you are not concerned with the price in the hereafter, at least concern yourself with the price you pay every week. Concern yourself with the price your “boyfriend’s” child may have to pay for your moments of pleasure. Concern yourself with the fact that you’re wasting the time you could be devoting to finding a match that meets your self-identified needs. Concern yourself with the idea that you are falling dangerously in love with a man who may leave you on the turn of a wheel. Concern yourself that even he is encouraging you to meet someone else.

    Men are sometimes incredibly weak.

    I have observed Pakistani men to know very little about “romantic love.” They are raised with the concept of “love is duty.” Romantic, carefree love is foreign to them, and likely somewhat intoxicating. But duty calls, and it becomes “what’s love got to do with it.”

    Forget the lies; forget the smooth-talking. Unless someone admits that they are/were lying to you, only the speaker and Allah (swt) will know the truth of the matter. Instead, I urge you to focus on the facts. His duties are to his wife and child. Unless and until you can see yourself compromising, and becoming part of the “duty program” you are dispensable.

    @Sister Ummof4

    You are right; adultery and fornication should not be euphemisms. The sinful, serious, shocking, and disgraceful nature associated with the words should remain with them.

    @Sister Kim,

    I don’t blame you at all for wanting to go back to Kashmir; it was a beautiful and innocent time n your life. I just urge you to plan for your own life, and that means taking care of your credit, finances, and needs…rather than allowing M to build “castles in the sky” in Kashmir, at your expense.

    @Sister KA126,

    I cried for your Co’s daughter. She had a chance to be happy and cared-for, even if for a while, in your care. Her Mother selfishly snatched that away from her. ;’-(

    Salaams to all of you.

  • laila

    November 25, 2013

    Dear Lynette….. Im so late in responding to your question the other day. Okay here goes. My educational centre is a private based centre. Parents pay a fee on a monthly basis. We focus on the syllabus allocated by our Educational Ministry. So we prepare the students in my centre for the main exams in the government run schools. In my country at the moment there are many US and UK based schools that are being set up. However not everyone is able to afford the fees. Another issue is, students in the government schools are most of the time neglected as the number in a class can vary from 30-45 per class. The teacher is extremely overloaded and there’s no such thing as Assistant Teacher. So you can imagine the quality of education. Im a bit busy at the end of each year as I fully focus on the new enrollment for the coming year. I start all classes in the mid of December and now is the time registrations start. I have about 150 students per year [ different ranges of ages ]. I not only focus on the main stream syllabus but also add a few value added programmes that I deem necessary. So quite a number of things on my plate at the moment but Inshaallah, Im able to handle. I plan to open up a second branch by the end of 2014, so my Ive got to follow my work schedule closely and perform. My vision from my centre? To deliver students that are educated, have sound leadership skills and able to carry themselves well in any given situation. happy

    So this is what I do in my business.

  • laila

    November 25, 2013

    Dear Isabell, welcome to the blog and nice to have you happyIve been a bit busy with my work commitments and therefore unable to respond earlier…. Ive read all you have had to say and my opinion is of this. LEAVE HIM.

    I know exactly how you feel as when I met my husband many years ago, I was young / dumb / really naive. He told me he was a divorcee and father of ONE. One day as we were supposed to meet, he called me and told me frantically that his wife had a miscarriage and he was rushing to the hospital. My thoughts? …. “Oh my God, this man is married! Holy Cow! No wonder he never picked up my calls at night and never responded to text messages sent at night!” After the mess was cleared, he confessed that he’s married and father of TWO. Ha ha ha ha!!!!! I nearly died! The reason he lied? He felt that he had met the love of his life, a woman who could speak well and dress well and hold an intelligent conversation. In his case he wasn’t forced to marry his cousin. He married his sweetheart whom he met while working in his early years and they have kids. I was puzzled…. Oh God what in the world was I dealing with. I come from a very traditional background and Im proud of it too happy so there was no sleeping before marriage nonsence. i made that clear as I wanted to be a virgin till I got married. That’s my personal choice. I was also scared of men’s p****…. my mum brain washed me from young saying that it’s shameful / hurtful for women to sleep around / men have large p**** / not enjoyable / not suitable. She wanted me to not sleep with anyone before marriage and therefore that was her only method of I guess stopping me. I call it “brainwash session 101″, my mum isn’t well educated and I guess that was her way of taking care of my sister and I.

    You stated that you’re sexually involved as well and you’re okay with it. My question is…. for how long are you going to be okay with that? I don’t see a way out for the both of you. if he really wanted to be with you, and loves you, he must be clear about his stance on the matter. If he’s still encouraging you to look for other men for relationships and stuff, then it’s high time you do so. In my opinion, he’s not marriage / long-term commitment material. I understand that in some cultures, sexually being involved with others isn’t such a big deal. But aren’t you giving him the easy way out. He gets you in bed and yet has the gall to tell you to go look for other guys for a proper relationship?

    I don’t think it will work as you’ve stated that you’re not willing to share. So, you’ve got your answer to your question. You won’t share and he’s not able to make up a decision too. Im sure you want much more in a relationship. I think If you walk away for good, I mean no contact at all, you might find someone even better. happy Im not being sarcastic or cynical. But the path you’re on will only leas to anger / frustration / unfulfilled expectation / time and youth wasted. In my case, we both came to a decision. So eventhough we went through hell, but Im happy to say that out of an informed decision, we are husband and wife. At least we are somewhere.

    If both of you still love one another and feel that you both are well suited, then some form of compromise from both parties are needed. Both sides must be clear about decisions made. Then march ahead. if not, you will see your time being wasted, and you will start to resent him, you may even turn into a very bitter woman. I know, because there was a time where I didn’t know what in the world to do, and when I left the decision to “hang” I nearly went mad. My self-esteem went down, and I was always so negative. Don’t allow yourself to be used further, face your issue head on and see what the outcome is.

    Hope my little bit of opinion is helpful. do keep us posted.

  • laila

    November 25, 2013

    Dear Kim, happy the idea of slashing up the car DID cross my mind. But then I sort of calmed down and just decided to not get too crazy and paranoid. I know my co-wife and I might not even talk to each other till the end of our lives, only maybe when certain situaitons require it to be so….. But seriously, Ive decided to stop the, “she’s sat in your car therefore im driving to ******* in my own car”. It’s plain gibberish! I was just upset because of my thoughts on what the people in my neighbourhood had to say. I was upset because of my own fuelled up ego…. So Im letting things go.

    Dear Ruqqya, I just quickly had a glance and saw what you had to say. I agree with you one one point but I also agree with Ana’s point of co-wives having a baby war then to get to each other. I know that with what I receive every mth, probably three families could run their households. But with how we are runnign our show, it seems to work. Please also take into account that the monthly allowances that hes giving her, shes sort of enjoying the benefits now. Her house is fully paid up, all her cars are paid up, so out of what shes given, she pays only for water / electricity / groceries and the little things around the house. Her maid is paid by our husband. Her new car is paid by him…. she even has two credit cards given because of the kids. Ive never demanded one as I lovvvvvvveee my privacy and I also know that it could burden hime further. When I found out about her car, my husband was so worried. He was worried that I might flip, and he quickly diverted my attention by asking as to whether I wouuld want to trade in my car. Many would jump at the chance. I said, “no thank you babes”. Because I want to practise what Jenny stated in an old response. I want to mean what I say and I want to keep to it too. Ive told him early this year that for the next five years Im not going to upgrade as I want to work on my business and also save for a rainy day. Im looking into oppourtunities to invest too. There are many instances where I feel and even my old jack of a husband has admitted that he wasn’t fair to me. Im not a Saint and I don’t profess to be one. Where he lacks with me, he covers in other ways. He may be a moron at times, very very difficult man to live with. But I love him. Just the other day he knew my body ached badly, especially my forehead, he made an attempt to massage my head and say nice things to me. I think also Ana is right, when a man decides to remarry, he must look into the financial aspects of it too. if I want to use children, knowing that Im very fertile, and he’s the problematic one, If I want …. I could go on a baby machine mode. I can on purpose say deliver five kids and deamand more…. I mean If im a cunning fox and want to use matters to my advantage.

    Now when I think about it, finance in a polygamous set up is tricky…. not all sides will be covered with the wives. It’s up to te wives to be content and know what she’s satisfied with. In my case, after my husband told me to resign from my full-time job, he himself told me that he would give me the same amount of allowances as my co-wife…. he knew that by asking me to be more available and flexible in my time that he knew he had to cover up somewhere else. By the way, It was quite a number of years where I paid for my share… meaning whatever the monthly outgoing expenses, we split half. I didn’t have the luxury of shopping like my other friends. My salary was much lower than his. To have the shopping sprees, I worked part time, after my full-time job. Meaning after work, I would grab a meal and Im off to another job and Im only home after 11.30pm…. Monday to Friday. Now I think I deserve some form of luxury. When his kids were young, I compromised in terms of no proper schedule and even in terms of finance, I went dutch. He knew that I had given my commitment to my marriage from day one. Now it’s his turn to return that commitment to me.

    Im okay with sharing. But I draw the line at taking any wife for granted. There must be a proper plan FOR ALL. My comments could have rubbed you the wrong way. No harm intended. Just my point of view that’s all. But seriously….. when a man decides to build another extension, he must have a plan, and the plan has to be discussed with the new wife so all parties are not in the dark. In my case, the fly by the pants schedule worked as the kids were so young. Now hes changed it and theres more order and organization. Im happy and feel blessed. happy

  • Jenny

    November 25, 2013

    In our family we have a plethora of kids. We have the his, mine, and ours going on, but after we married, they all fell into the “ours” category. There is no his and mine anymore. My husband leaves the childrens’ (and most of them are no longer children) needs to me. It is sad that R has no input, but that is the Pakistani way that I married into. Not only do I try my best with all the children, but I also toss my nephews into the lot as well. When everyone lives in a joint house in Pakistan, how can you help one and leave one behind when it can be well afforded?

    I still make sure that R has an allowance. Did she get any bulk monies from our companies? No. My personal funds were the basis of those businesses, not to mention my daily hours of slavery when my husband was too sick to work. If my husband ever thought 50/50 would work, we would have ended up on Judge Judy!

    Now R has a job. While it may appear strange for a woman to work in Pakistan and not have servants, my working 18 hour days with four babies could appear just as strange to some people too. I only wish I could sit on my couch and smile all the time. The only time I get to sit on my couch is when I’m putting on my shoes! laughing. I think R having a job is a good thing and chalks one up for women empowerment.

    Honestly, I spoil all the kids. Wednesday is the youngest’s birthday back in Pakistan. I order him a colossal Spider-Man cake and boxes of things I know he’ll like: new cricket bat, new iPhone (I loathe them things), and a new calculator watch he wanted for a long time, and a few smaller knock knacks. Since I’ve arranged this from the States and was quite expensive to do, do I keep a running total of what I spend on each kid? No. Each kid is different. My oldest is thrilled with a piece of property I pick up for him for $50, where the others want different things.

    The main thing is everyone must be on the same page and the BIG thing (which I keep harping on) is respect. If the husband has no respect for the wives or the wives do not demand respect from the husband, should it really be surprising when a wife finds herself a secret wife or living in squalor??? I don’t think we should all categorically say, “Bad Man!,” because the wife allowed such treatment in the first place. When someone enters into a marriage; especially, one of polygamy, before the marriage takes place, like any kind of life planning that goes on in a family, ground rules must be laid beforehand. While I may have sounded like a Mexican Gang Lord with my husband before we married, those were my rules of what I could live with. He could take it or leave it. Sometimes the man may have his request, such as his first wife not know. If you, the woman, can live with that, he was honest with you right out the gate. You can’t howl about it later. Just protect yourself and put your demands down too before it’s too late.

  • ana

    November 25, 2013

    Regardless of what the husbands contribute, wives are only going to get what Allah has apportioned for them anyway. Many put so much emphasis on a husband being “fair” and “just” with his finances that they over-look or don’t know what Allah says in the Quran. Some people are always going to have more than others. Allah says He enlarges and restricts His provision to whom He pleases. He determines what He will give each individual. So many overlook who Allah is and what He does.

    We find very few wives hear complaining about the money situation as far as allotments are concerned. When their husbands take other wives the previous wives do what they have to do, even to the point of continuing to contribute to the household as they had done before their husbands took on additional wives. Yes, in the beginning it is an adjustment and it doesn’t sit well with most of us. We, however, pull it together, and do what we need or have to do.

    It goes without saying that it would be best that a husband makes his INTENT to be just with his wives. Allah swt tells us all to be just in ALL our dealings. It’s not only about a husband being just in his dealings in a polygamous marriage.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    November 25, 2013

    I forgot to mention medical insurance, as well.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    November 25, 2013

    Ruqayya,

    I don’t think you are being reasonable in the examples you gave Jenny. If there was some emergent situation involving a child (and neither parent could afford to pay it), I’m pretty sure a believing wife (not the mother of the child) would help out with the medical expenses for the other wife’s child, if she could and was asked.

    I’m sure the family (parents, aunts, uncles, siblings or friends), of the husband and the wife of whose child is it is would help out with the expenses, as well. Islam is about being charitable and spending on others and others does not mean just one’s immediate family. It means the Muslim community.

    There are loans the husband and wife whose child it is could obtain to pay for the braces, for example.

    The father could work an extra job if he feels he needs more money to help with the children’s care. The husband may have extra money such as in “Spirited” husband case. He could spend some of his left over $1,000.00 a month to help with extra needs of the children.

    So, you think it should be like the welfare system in the States – a woman gets more money for each additional child she has? Then the baby war would really be on.

    You have to consider that if a first wife has 10 kids, as in the example that you gave in a previous post, a RATIONAL husband would NOT take on another wife without considering whether he would be able to meet the needs of his current wife and kids. If he couldn’t afford to give the second wife the same amount of money as he had been giving the first wife, the potential wife, knowing this, could accept less if she still wanted to marry the man. A man with 10 kids, if RATIONAL considers whether he can afford another wife based on her life style and the number of kids she has, as well. A rational husband would consider that an additional wife would have children in the future, as well.

    Believers know that Allah provides. Allah says don’t kill your children on a plea of want, for He provides. He says He provides for those who divorce, so don’t worry, so don’t worry, if the parties have to part. Allah lets us know throughout the Quran that He provides. Satan threatens poverty.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ruqayya

    November 25, 2013

    If you had two kids and one needed braces due to overcrowding. .. not exactly a medical emergency but is uncomfortable and would improve his standard of living if the teeth were straightened out and he was not in pain or discomfort would you deny him the braces in the attempt to be “fair” to the children who do not need braces because you do not have the anount of money to give each child the $5, 000 it costs to cover the costs? I wonder then why a man must be expected to kep one wife in luxury while the other lives barely making it througlh the week. I agree with Jenny that standard of living as well as circumstances ned to be considered. Each wife AND each child has the right to be fed, clothed ad sheltered from their fathers money. The wife who neds less and demands more is pure selfish. How can one sit in luxury knowing her husnands child is going hungry or going without a need because she wants 50/50 when she does not need it?

  • ummof4

    November 24, 2013

    As-Salaamu Alaikum Ana,

    You can use whatever I write on this site. All that I write is to try to benefit others, which is what this site is all about. It benefits me as well.

  • ana

    November 24, 2013

    Jenny,

    It could be that a lot of women don’t stand up for themselves fearing they will loose their husband or potential husband sad Fear is so debilitating. God tells us to fear nothing, but Him. There is a reason for it; although we don’t need to know what the reason is.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Jenny

    November 24, 2013

    I guess I’m the only one happy with their Pakistani husband. I love that man so much and he is truly my best friend! It is very sad that the majority of what is being said about the Pakistani men are true, but I have such a beautiful marriage {bli ayen hara} and wouldn’t have wanted to hear the dirty truth. Yes, it is a dirty truth an overwhelming majority of the time. From what I personally see, men from Bangladesh are far worse.

    My husband has been honest with me, but before we married, I had so many stipulations put down in place that if I were him, I would have run like my shoes were on fire. Nothing scared this man away! I would love to know why he thought I was the one! Ok, so our life started with passion, but more than a decade later, we still have passion, but it is love built on memories and time together.

  • Spirited

    November 24, 2013

    Salaam everyone big grin

    How is everyone’s weekend coming along? Mine is uneventful but quiet. Kind of lonely, but a cousin is visiting right now (though he’s watching football) so it’s not that bad. (well football is pretty boring… laughing )

    Look at Ana and Ummof4 throwing it down! You guys tell it like it is and always in a pleasant way. Enjoyed reading Ummof4′s blog-marriage-types analysis. I look forward to the discussions on that when Ana puts up the topic, Insha’Allah.

    @Isabell, Thank you for writing in again! First of all, yes please do not misunderstand anything anyone says here to be in anger or aggression. You’ve asked for our opinions, and everyone here is extreeeemely friendly and just wants to help you avoid being hurt. <3

    You said so yourself, "he is very good with words." and this is what I've been warning you about — Pakistani men are very good sweet talkers, but they are also very good LIARS and deceivers. I know you are not Muslim, but I don't warn you away from him because of your religion, but more because I feel for you and for his wife. I don't believe that any relationship that requires the destruction of another is worth it. You've said you will not engage in polygamy so there can be no other result if you choose to continue to respond to his lies and carry on with him. Are you so interested in what he appears to be that you want to "win" him? Its not a contest, it's a matter of an entire family's life as well as of an innocent child's life.

    You mentioned that if you were in his wife's shoes, you would try to be even nicer. Many times, women do try this, but there's no guarantee that will change anything (especially if she doesn't even know anything is going on — how would you expect her to re-assess her priorities?) You also mentioned that his wife works as well as him and their jobs keep them apart. You said perhaps she should leave her job and move closer to him. Why doesn't he leave his job and get another where his family is? What is his reason for choosing to be away from them? Why doesn't he just quit work? In today's "modern world" its acceptable for muslim women to be working to support their husbands and families, so I should think it was just as acceptable for the man to be the one to quit his job to work on the family if that is necessary. These are a few things that popped into my head as I read what I wrote.

    Though you've said you aren't forcing him to divorce, and are not putting any force on him, your actions say something else. He has said he doesn't want to leave his family and offered you to be his 2nd wife so that he can fulfill his base desires and not sin anymore, and not hurt his family and lose his child. You have said you will not consider polygamy. This forces him to consider divorce to marry you. Either that, or continue to commit the heinous sin of adultery and keep you on the side as a mistress, promising you marriage always "next year".

    Let's pretend for a minute that he does marry you and divorces his wife, for the sake of argument. Everything is unicorns and rainbows at first, but don't you think he would eventually resent not being able to be with his child? Not having his parents or grandparents or siblings in his life? Its very important for people to share their joys, the ups and downs of life with family. There are also certain things in Pakistani culture and the Muslim religion that you would not understand and he would not have anyone to share and experience these with. He may eventually regret marrying you, then what would you do? I read just today a psychology report about how marriage based on love — while romantic and popularized in media — is the absolute WORST type of marriage and WILL break down after time. This is because love WILL ALWAYS fade and lose intensity. You can pretend that it doesn't and most people try to deny it all they like, but they eventually are faced with living with someone they don't care about anymore.

    You've also said you don't want to be in pain anymore. My dear Isabell, the best solution — like the other ladies have said already and I say again — you should leave him. The myriad of reasons to not stay with this deceiver are worth your time to consider. Please think of the situation with your mind and not your heart. Consider what everyone here has said. There are women here who have had many different experiences and the majority of them are warning you away from this relationship. Please, for your sake and the sake of the innocents in this mess, I would ask you to follow the advice. He is the one who created this mess, let him deal with his pain and you should continue your life and meet someone who doesn't come attached with all this baggage.

    @Ana, I hope you had an enjoyable weekend! Your time spent with your husband usually has a cute story in it somewhere! Oh and loooooved that final paragraph you wrote (in your reply to Isabell). Let me quote it again, if that's ok,

    "In most of these so called polygamous marriages, Allah is not considered. It's all about Muslim men getting involved with women who Allah tells them not to marry and Muslim men being involved with women out of lust. Allah tells us not to marry for lust. Not many people seem to care about what Allah says."

    I never realized before how true your words here are. These men call their lust "love". They tell their adultery partners they've never felt love before when they really mean that they've not been able to follow their lustful desires before. Everyone seems to act like Allah is not important and they've got such pressing things to do. Someone starts to talk about religion, everyone in the room will roll eyes or groan under their breath as if they don't even want to be reminded about Allah. People — no, even Muslims — are having intercourse out of marriage, affairs, mistresses, adultery and its becoming more rampant every year. They act like it's not a big deal. There's a mentality among Muslim men to go sleep around as much as they like with non-muslim women, then go and demand a muslim virgin to marry. The blatant disrespect for muslimahs and more importantly, for Allah, is just unbelievable. And its all because no one cares about God anymore. These people are certainly going to have a rude awakening eventually. I'm just glad that I'm not among the people of that mentality, thanks to Allah and I pray HE keeps me safe from it always.

    @Kim, hmmm kind of sounds like a tricky situation. The thing that got me was when you mentioned that you don't really feel close and seem to be drifting and wonder if there is a good reason to stay together. (apologies if I've worded that wrong). You have good reason to be apathetic about him because of his 2 instances of adultery. You've already been much more lenient and patient that most anyone else (myself included, no way would I put up with a repeat!) Like with me, I think you've got a wait 'n see sort of thing setup but you're prepared with your Plan B.

    In your last paragraph, the way you wrote made it seem that your husband still wants to give it a shot, but you're too emotionally and physically tired of trying and then him messing something up again. This is a really confusing situation. On the one hand, you say you can already see he isn't going to change his ways, and on the other hand, he says he is willing to try. I guess in this sort of situation, you need to ask Allah for guidance and then follow your gut. sad At least, you've prepared for any situation.

    @Gail, nice to hear from you again! I hope you're well and everyone in your life continues in good health. I am curious, have you heard anything about your brother-in-law's divorce recently? (I forget the specific relation it was. Pakistani relationships can get confusing with cousin marriages laughing ).

    @Laila, lol thank you for speaking to the car situation! I have to admit, I'm just blown away by how much you've grown emotionally. I hope you enjoy the car and it serves you for many trouble-free years. Also, wow, 3 cars! Very nice!

    @Maureen, thanks for checking in! I hope you and your baby and family are all doing well!

    @Jenny, that's amazing! Thank you also for sharing some of your real estate tips winking I was wondering, are these "tax sales auctions" open to the public? Or do you have to have certain clearance kind of like auto auctions? I'm just asking because that question popped out at me. I'm not personally interested in real estate at this point in my life, though it does sound like sound investment for the future. Thank you again for being so happy to help whenever someone asks!

    Well ladies, I have to jet for the time being, Salat is awaitin'. I shall see you later!

  • Kim

    November 24, 2013

    Dang, Jenny, that’s awesome! Once I have some cash to spare I’d give that a whirl. I do know that despite the recent tanking of the real estate market, the fact is that real estate is a can’t-lose investment. In Kashmir, land has exploded in value. We bought our first house there for the equivalent of 60K and it sold within 3 years for almost double that. I was shocked.

    The one we recently bought is around 80K (42 lakh, or 4,200,000 rupees) and we could turn around and sell it in a year for probably 60 lakh. Or, M could. Either way, it’s a money-maker. You just have to speculate to accumulate, and the speculating part is where I have a problem. I’m a paycheck-to-paycheck girl, have been since I started working in my teen years. As I said, my credit sucks. I’ll be happy if I’m able to purchase a little bungalow here in the US if I’m staying here and live out my life peacefully being a grandma rocking the little ones on my front porch. My needs and wants are very simple happy

  • Kim

    November 24, 2013

    Heh…that’s why I asked him if I should hire a contractor to build a second house when I get there tongue M of course played stupid “why would we need a 2nd house?” Yes, why indeed?

    You and Ummof4 are right as rain. One thing for sure, it would be insane to go halfway around the world, with him or without, the way things are now. That much I know for sure. He’s gone back into his “hole” that he was in around the time both of the adultery episodes took place. Of course that’s my fault.

    Allah certainly does send signs, Alhamdulillah…it’s up to us to recognize them when we have them in front of us. I pray a LOT for a clear answer, even though Allah may well be conking me upside the head with that answer all the while. Everyone is telling me to think long and hard before committing to going overseas again. Wisconsin is looking better by the minute. NOT a place to run away from problems – Allah knows that wherever I go, the problems will be with me because they’re IN me – but to be with my family and to do me….build my life and live my life and work on my Iman because M does absolutely nothing in that regard. He’s light years from Islam and getting further all the time. I can’t remember the last time I saw him offer Salat. I’ve asked him to join me on his evenings off when I get home from work and it’s one excuse after another. *sigh*

    Ummof4, I know M will go to Kashmir ultimately. It’s his homeland, everything he owns is there. He said the other day he doesn’t want us to go with this bitterness and resentment (in me of course). Well, I can’t develop amnesia at his convenience and forget everything that caused any bitterness and resentment. If I could, I sure would. These episodes of hiding stuff and lying only re-open all that stuff and bring it back into the light to be fought over all over again. There’s been immense – IMMENSE – damage done.

  • ana

    November 24, 2013

    Rolling laughter Kim, I know it’s not supposed to be funny, but I could see you now over in Kashmir and M is here in the States with N. Oh noooo Hearty Laugh I didn’t see that one coming…

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ummof4

    November 24, 2013

    Kim, I also think you answered your own question. I would not advise you to go to Kashmir without M; since he has not been truthful for the past three years, he may not come to Kashmir. He may stay here with N. If you still truly want to be with him, I guess you’ll have to continue to live with his lies, but I would not leave him here in the states.
    Keep the faith and ask Allah for guidance. He always sends signs, sometimes we just ignore them.

  • ana

    November 24, 2013

    @Jenny,

    I know; I know; I know laughing Yes, we have been talking about getting my business started for a looooong time now sad I’ve got to get my sleep schedule straightened out first. I can’t sleep from 7:00 a.m – 11:00 a.m. and think I can run any kind of business that way. I’m not gifted with the entrepreneur spirit that you have. Insha Allah, I’ll get it together soon happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Jenny

    November 24, 2013

    @ Kim,

    I go to the tax sales auction in New York, most of them upstate. I’ve built a VERY fat nest egg with very little money. I’ve literally bought vacant land for $50, many times. Ana has seen pictures of the home we’ve been renovating the past year. The house is 11,000 square feet, four stories, historical landmark, directly on the river. Granted it was in very bad shape, I paid $8600 for the house (it also has a two-story carriage house as well} and it is turning into the money pit, but once it is done, it will be worth several million. We are sinking around $300k into it.

    Also, in the same town I bought an office building directly across the street from the jail and courthouse. There were minor repairs that needed ~ less than $10k. I paid $18,500 and it was appraised out at $750k. Currently, we made one office an Italian restaurant, we made another section a grocery store, and the last office we rented out to a bail bondsman.

    Kim, you can totally rebuilt your credit with property. It is an asset and I promise, you can build a great portfolio with less than $1000 out of your pocket. In April, I bought a log home on 100 acres on the Finger Lakes. Price ~ $9500. Sometimes I fix to rent out, but these two homes are keepers. Obviously, the house in the Hampton’s we paid full price. In the city, I got deals on a couple of properties that we own. The house we live in now I am going to rent out when our new house is done. The house we are building now will be special as I’ve put a lot of work into it. I’ve stumbled on a piece of oceanfront property where we are now building. One thing about real estate is you will never lose your money.

  • ana

    November 24, 2013

    Kim,

    You answered your own question in the statement you made about yourself, which was: “I’m exhausted, mentally and physically. Emotionally drained. I cannot invest all of myself catering to this man to make him happy, to make sure he won’t leave me, because the truth is, nothing I do will make one bit of difference, he’ll do what he’ll do no matter what, as he has already proven over and over.”

    As you said, you have to find a way to let him be himself. Let “M” do “M”. You can’t make him happy. You can’t make yourself happy. It’s all an illusion that anyone has anything to do with their happiness or anyone else happiness. People stress themselves out trying to make things happen. They try to figure everything out. They stay stressed out, as many things don’t go as they plan. They don’t know which way is up or which way to turn.

    Only when one realizes the TRUTH will one find peace and contentment. People spend their entire lives trying to find peace and contentment in life. Many just experience fleeting moments of happiness.

    Kim, you think moving to Kashmir may do it for you, or perhaps Wisconsin. No matter where you go, until you discover the TRUTH you will take the same problems with you. If it’s not “M” that you take. You’ll find some other problems waiting for you once you get there. You can’t run away.

    “M” is “M”; he likes women. Maybe he doesn’t want to be the way he is. Until he discovers the TRUTH, he will be the way he is or worse. He knows he needs help. He acknowledge it to you. You’re both looking for help in all the wrong places.

    I say it often and I’ll say it again. Allah tells us that He created us to serve and to worship Him. He didn’t create us to chase after lust and desires. This world life isn’t meant to be Paradise.

    Maybe you saw the movie, “A Few Good Men” with Jack Nickolson. Someone said he wanted the truth. Jack Nicolson’s replied, “You can’t handle the TRUTH”. Many people don’t want to know the truth, as they can’t handle it. They don’t want the TRUTH, as they are not ready for it.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    November 24, 2013

    ummof4, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    You did exceptionally good work in the breakdown of the different types of relationships that we hear about here on the blog. With your permission, I’d like to do a post/thread on it and attribute to you all that you said, of course. Allah knows best when I’ll get to a new thread, probably not for another week or so. If you have any objection, please let me know. I think your post is too good to leave in a comment, and not have it readily available for cyberspace to peruse. Alhumdulliah that you are here! happy

    ummof4, you are absolutely correct that we should call the adultery and fornication that we hear about here on the blog what it is, and not call it an affair. I am guilty of calling those relationships affairs. I call them affairs only because it is what many people relate to and understand. Many people don’t care anything about “adultery” or “fornication”. Many think nothing of either one. Many care only about getting caught committing adultery as they don’t want to risk a divorce and don’t want to risk the loss of a girlfriend/mistress. To talk about adultery, fornication and Islam flies right over many people’s heads. They don’t want to hear about it; don’t care about it; think nothing of it; get down right disgusted and totally turned off by the mention of it, as it relates to religion.

    As you stated, adultery and fornication are huge sins. One Ayah in Quran says fornication is right up there with Murder and the person guilty of it gets a double penalty. Although, some countries put to death those found guilty of adultery, it is wrong. Allah tells us in the Quran that the penalty believers should inflict on the adulterer and fornicator is flogging. It’s not death. Four witnesses to the act are needed, as well, which leads one to wonder whether Allah wants us to leave those matters alone for Him to handle.thinking

    It was good conversation, ummof4. thumbs up

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Kim

    November 24, 2013

    Gotta agree with Jenny here….NYC!!! I absolutely love New York City. There was just something so amazing about it when I was there. My first visit there I wandered around Manhattan feeling like I had come home, when I’d never even been there before. Times Square was AWESOME. 3 in the morning and bright as day out. And contrary to what everyone tells us Midwestern hicks, people there were really nice. I still remember the cop on horseback I flirted with in Times Square LOLOL…he was so sweet.

    I’d love to know how one gets real estate for nothing…..I want to buy me a nice little house in that small WI town should I decide to go that way…..houses are cheap there but my credit is in the toilet thanks to my ex, as well as M and my own financial incompetence sad I don’t think I could get credit to buy a roll of toilet paper anymore! *sigh*

  • Kim

    November 24, 2013

    Something I wanted to run by you girls….I’ve spoken often of a “plan B” in place should M and I finally just part ways permanently. As you know, Kashmir is on the table to varying degrees. I lived there with him before with my 2 youngest kids and it was such a happy time in our marriage (this of course being pre-polygamy, pre-cheating, etc). When we returned from Kashmir to the US, that’s when things started really going downhill for us. Within a year he’d been with 2 other women, his ex girlfriend, “J”, and then N. Now, presumably, we’re back to monogamy, back to where we were in the fall of 2010 when we returned from Kashmir. But things are SO different now. We’re not who we were, we don’t have that connection. M told me the other day there has to be SOMETHING keeping us together, what is it? I honestly couldn’t answer him, because I don’t see him in any way the same as I did 3 years ago.

    As we reconciled from the 6 week break, a big part of that reconciliation centered around going back to Kashmir. I felt strongly that only by doing that could we save our marriage. Kashmir is a pure part of our lives – it has no memory of any of the unhappiness that culminated into his adultery, into polygamy, into any of it. There, he and I work together toward common goals. His family is 100% supportive.

    But the fact is, I don’t know really if that’s the answer, and too he keeps backpedaling. Originally we were only going to be back in the US for 6 months to a year. And here we are 3 years later and he’d said he would go in November, I would join him later…then it was all of us in January, then backpedaled, then March, and backpedaled, telling me I should take my son and go ahead of him and he’d stay here….a conversation that took place on the same day I discovered he was talking to N again. *sigh*…

    So. Plan B. M and I are growing more and more distant and it’s only a matter of time before something blows again….meanwhile my son who is engaged to be married is moving to Wisconsin after Thanksgiving, to work and attend school. His fiancé and their daughter will join him in the spring. He’s moving to the same town my daughter and grandson live in, it’s about 3 hours from here. I’m thinking if things don’t turn around, it won’t only be my son moving there….I’m giving it serious consideration myself. It’s a nice town, small, but has a thriving Islamic community. Cost of living is far cheaper than here. Yet I can make upwards of the same amount of money I do here. It’s close enough that I can come here regularly for my youngest to visit his dad and his friends here, who are really important to him.

    I’m truly torn what to do. M is VERY good at convincing me about Kashmir, and VERY good at playing my sympathy, i.e. “my sister said she’ll never speak to me again if we divorce”, “everything I’ve done there, I’m doing for US, for you and me and A” (my son). *sigh*…..but then he coughs up this “we cannot go there broke” because we bought property and invested in a business and that ate up every liquid asset we had, so guess what, we gotta stay here longer yet. This has been going on forever and I’m sick of it. He keeps dangling that carrot, then pulling it away.

    And no, me and A going to Kashmir alone is not an option. No way. If he were to move out of this state and work somewhere else, I’d give it some thought, but then too, the man has cheated on me with 2 women…why should I believe he’d stay faithful now? Has he given me one iota of a reason to? Oh, wait….he’ll leave before he’ll cheat again. Great. I’m supposed to work and save and focus on this ever elusive end goal, only to possibly have him bail because he can’t keep his hands off other women? So this is why I’m tabling the whole Kashmir option and taking a good look at Plan B…if he cannot give me better assurance than that of where he’s at in this marriage, why should I assure him of my commitment to him, to Kashmir?

    Am I so wrong here, to distance myself? He thinks I am. He’s whining once more about feeling like it doesn’t matter to me whether he’s here or not. That I look right through him when he’s here. That we’re not intimate enough (oh that’s a whole ‘nother issue, believe me…winking, on and on and on. I’m exhausted, mentally and physically. Emotionally drained. I cannot invest all of myself catering to this man to make him happy, to make sure he won’t leave me, because the truth is, nothing I do will make one bit of difference, he’ll do what he’ll do no matter what, as he has already proven over and over.

  • Kim

    November 24, 2013

    Asalaam aleikum all,

    @ Ummof4 – that was good insight in breaking down the 4 marriage categories you’re finding in our marriages. I tend to agree that you pegged a good majority of them correctly and you definitely got the haram/halal correct of course.

    I am not sure ours fall into any of the categories quite right. I see us in all 4 situations.

    @Isabell, much easier for me to say than you to do, but I’d get out of this situation ASAP. He’s married, he has a child, he has no plans to leave them. You’re pretty much where my ex-co was and since you’re not in favor of polygamy, you refuse to be a co wife, then the only 2 options are he leaves his wife and child or else you leave him and let him stay married. Personally, I couldn’t live with the knowledge that I had any hand in breaking up a family. Homewrecker is not on my to-be list. My ex-co made it her mission in life to break up my marriage, even though she told ME she didn’t want that to happen. It was a lie, and I resent her to this day, bigtime. You don’t want to be that type of woman, trust me. If you want to be with this man, you best plan on being a co wife. If you can’t be a co, you gotta go.

    @KA126, may Allah guide you (and us all) to the right decisions. I’ve missed you!

    @ Gail, thanks – peace is all I want. And it’s the one thing I don’t have right now that I long for. I dropped M at work a bit ago and he informed me he needs to see a doctor and get on medication. I looked at him and he pointed at his temple saying “this kind”. I know he’s mentally a mess, it’s good that he also recognizes it. Insha Allah he’ll do something about it, for his own sake. Hey, keep us informed on your real estate venture – that’s something I don’t know anything about, real estate just confuses me LOL….right there with the stock market.

    @Laila, I had many of the same reactions with material possessions between me and N. I wanted nothing to do with anything that was in any way hers. I remember her giving me this gorgeous scarf and hijab pin and when she and I were getting along I had no problem wearing it, but when we were hating on each other I screamed at M to get that **** out of my house. SMH….I’m sure she did the same with anything that had been mine (except of course, my money). We women are nutty creatures this way. I’m sure it’s ego or something like it, yes. Because when M and N had their Nikah, the next day he stopped by with this huge tray of food for me and my sons from their walima. I blew a freaking gasket. Told him I now know where I rank in the scheme of things, the ghetto wife who gets leftovers. I threw a shoe at him as he made his escape, then proceeded to toss all that food in the garbage. Ugh, I was nuts. But yes, it was ALL ego at that time. Hey at least you didn’t go out and key up that car, slash the tires, etc. I probably would have….

  • Jenny

    November 24, 2013

    @ Gail,

    I want you to come to the Big Apple! Museums & parks everywhere and I can show you how to get real estate for nothing.

    Besides, ice cream is very popular here and New Yorkers’ love the trucks!

    I miss you!

  • Jenny

    November 24, 2013

    @ Umm of 4,

    You are spot on with the types of relationships. Haven’t figured out where I fit in on the that ~ maybe we should have a miscellaneous category too! happy

    The problem is so many women are used to being treated like tricks, they don’t expect or plan for the treats.

  • KA126

    November 24, 2013

    As salaamu Alaikum Sisters,

    It has been really busy on the blog… I have been trying to keep up. Alhumdulillah that things seem to be at a quiet roar for everyone.

    Welcome to all our new sisters. @Isabella…run, run fast before it’s too late.

    As for me…. A lot is going on! I called my CoCo finally. Pleasant conversation and we planned to take the kids to dinner the next day at 4pm. I showed up at 4pm the next day with all the children and she informs me that she was full and has already eaten. Suffice it to say, Habibi and I were very pissed. Then something strange happened that was too funny but is showing Habibi that she is playing games. She sent my youngest daughter to spend the night at my house. But she was sent with sores in her head, no underwear on, etc. I took care of it all and we were on the way to buy her some clothes when CoCo called crying saying she wanted her daughter back. I really don’t care what she does anymore. I will make sure to do my part and be a good Muslim. She will have to answer for her actions to Allah Subhana wa ta’ala. She has no just reason for her actions.

    In the meantime, my job is going through lay offs. My job is secure, but they want me to move. I am trying to pay attention and see if Allah Subhana wa ta’ala wants me to truly show my obedience and stay home to maintain my family. In sha Allah, I will make the right decisions

  • Gail

    November 24, 2013

    Jenny,
    I am doing fine just really tired going to take the kids to a art museum in the morning and then out to eat.A nice family day. Ice Cream season is officially over thanks Goodness!
    I don’t know if I told you or not but I have decided to start buying real estate.I am really excited about it.It is something I wanted to do for a very long time and the time has finally come.I want to buy Apartments and do owner financing with homes.I am so tired of the Ice Cream business.It’s time to move on.I am also looking to move to Texas.I am looking at a couple of cities really seriously.I like San Antonio and Houston.I want to move to give the children more opportunities as they get older.

    Ana,
    Seems you are having a nice weekend.

    Kim,
    I am sorry to here you are struggling with M.I hope you find the peace you are so much longing for.

    Spirited,
    I think you are great and you know I am always hoping for your best.

    KA126,
    Have not seen u on the blog in awhile.I am wondering how your marriage is going.

    Laila & lynette,
    I hope you girls are hanging in there and all is going well for you.

    I hope everyone is having a nice weekend.Sorry if I missed anyone the blog is getting so big now I love it.

  • Gail

    November 24, 2013

    Isabel,
    Hi I am Gail and welcome to the blog.I read your post and I wanted to bring something up that u need to check into.You Boyfriend does not have citizenship and he doesn’t want European Citizenship.Ok I will tell you straight up that is BULL CRAP! I don’t buy what he is selling for a second.It is possible that his first wife simply has refused to file his citizenship status or he knows he will not divorce her so he feels secure not to run for citizenship but what ever it is I don’t believe that he would not want European Citizenship because 99.9% of Pakistani men want foreign citizenship.So unless he is in the .1% which i highly doubt means he is a liar straight up.Also really he is going to divorce his wife and just leave his child whom he loves dearly.Again nope don’t think so.Also I am seriously wondering if he is looking at you for citizenship.If he is willing to leave his Pakistani/cousin wife for you then he has some motivation to do that.Please do not fall for his smooth talking crap you don’t know his culture or language and I can 100% assure you that u will be disgusted at yourself down the road.Look at the obvious DO you really want a man that will leave his wife who brought him to Europe and his sweet baby?What Kind of man does that?I will tell you what kind of man MY HUSBAND.
    My Pakistani husband pulled so much crap on me it would make your head spin.Please think logically if he can cheat on his wife and baby then Chicky he can also cheat on you because remember after all he can have up to 4 wives at once and who’s to say that he would not keep a few on the side like he is doing with you understand.

  • ummof4

    November 24, 2013

    As-salaamu Alaikum and hello to all,

    I have been reading the posts for the past few days and have done a little bit of analyzing. Here goes:
    There are at least 4 different types of relationships that are occurring here. Some even have subcategories.

    1. A Real Marriage That Becomes Polygynous – A couple are married for a period of time. The husband decides to become polygynous. He may or may not consult his first wife about his decision. He marries the second wife and it is known to his first wife. The first wife goes through her emotional changes, but after the smoke clears, she remains married to her husband. Her husband is fulfilling his responsibilities towards her, he just now has responsibilities towards two wives. Finances, time spent, etc,. are done according to the laws of Islaam. The first and second wives may or may not be friends, but there is no great animosity and everyone respects everyone else. Occasionally one wife or the other may attempt to play games or make a power play, but the husband has enough Allah consciousness and maturity not to participate in game playing. There is no adultery involved before the second marriage takes place.

    2. The “Secret Wife” – The secret wife may be the first wife and the man never tells the second wife about the first one until after they are married for a while. The man really wants to marry the second wife and is afraid that if he tells her he is already married, she will not marry him. So he keeps his first wife a secret until he can no longer do so.
    Usually, however, the secret wife is the second wife. The husband convinces her to marry him and she agrees to be kept a secret for a period of time. The husband tells her that he really does not love his first wife, but had to marry her for the sake of family. The second wife is the only woman he has ever loved, and he just can’t live without her. The woman is flattered that she is his first and only love. He cannot tell his first wife because even though he doesn’t love her or really care about her, she has his children. Or he may say he cares about her a little bit and does not want to cause her pain. Or he may or may not care about her, but cannot divorce her because it would tear his family apart.
    Secret wives often live far away from each other, so the plan works fine for the husband. He does not have to explain his absences to his first or second wife. He has to travel for business, work or studies, so it is not difficult to keep the wife secret. Sometimes he provides maintenance for his secret wife and sometimes he doesn’t, particularly if she tells him she only needs him and not his money.

    3. Adultery With Caring Benefits – A man meets a woman. They begin to date. They begin to have strong feelings for each other. They begin to have sexual encounters whether they are kissing, hugging, phone or internet sex, oral sex or sexual intercourse. The woman falls in love with the man and wants to marry him. He tells her that he can’t marry her because he is already married. He does not love his wife but has to stay married to her for the children, finances, family reputation, his job, he does not want to cause her pain, etc. As soon as he feels the time is right he will divorce his wife. Until then, he and his adultery partner should continue their relationship. He knows he is wrong, but it feels so good and his wife never has made him feel so good. He has never felt about his wife the way he feels about his adultery partner. The adultery partner has made his life complete, and if she leaves him, he doesn’t know what he will do without her. So, the adultery partner continues the relationship with the hope that one day she will be his only wife. And the husband continues to commit adultery, often with his wife believing that she has a faithful husband. This type of relationship can work well f or the man even if the two women live close to each other, because the adultery partner doesn’t get a lot of time; just a few stolen moments here and there. Often the husband committing adultery will give his adultery partner money and pay some of her bills.

    4. The Booty Call. – This is similar to adultery with caring benefits. Often the man does not see this adultery partner on a regular basis. She usually lives far away from his primary home. He meets her at work or at an entertainment venue and they strike up a conversation. They have similar interests and begin to have sexual intercourse with each other. He does not profess his undying love for her, but tells her that they have a good thing going on, so let’s keep it going. If she finds out he is married, he does not promise to marry her, but promises to always be there for her through thick and thin. He may or may not give her money or pay her bills.

    Only the first relationship is halal according to the Qur’an and Sunnah. The other three are haram. There should be no secret marriages in Islam and a marriage should not consist of lies and deceit. And of course adultery is a major sin, punishable by death in an Islamic state.

    It is not for me to tell anyone what to do with her life. But ladies, let’s call adultery what it is, and stop calling it an affair. And stop making excuses for these lying, irresponsible men. If that’s what you want out of life, fine. But don’t make it sound all lovey dovey and romantic, when it is just plain sinful.

    May Allah help us all and guide us to the truth and allow us to lead clean, morally upright lives. As women let us respect ourselves so we will be worthy of the respect of others. Let us consider another’s feelings before we try to justify being a secret wife or and adultery partner. Let us each want to stand before Allah in the Day of Judgement with as few major sins as possible and may we be worthy of Allah’s forgiveness on that Day.

  • laila

    November 24, 2013

    Dear Spirited, just wanted to answer your questions in regards to the car dilemma… happy After doing my Maghrib prayer, I realized while I was bowing down… That my ego is extremely high! I fought with him because my co-wife drove that same identical car. My worries boiled down to my neighbours around my neighbourhood that love to spice matters up and personally If you were to meet me up in real life, Im the type who’s friendly and go out of my way for my neighbours, but I draw the line at carrying tales. Many years ago, when I was immature i didn’t realize how hurtful carrying tales to others could be… Well I have developed myself and I follow as much as I can based on what my religious teacher has taught me. Even mentioning others opens a window to gossip. So nowdays when I meet my neighbours, family members and friends, I focus on what’s happening in their lives, and what’s on their plate in terms of work and probably what’s in the news. Other than that, I keep mum! happy

    Getting back to my storyyyyy….. right now the car is parked and not been driven for days…. Ive decided to drive the car and not care about what people are going to spread information about me and my co-wife. Its just a car at then end of the day. I mentioned that I also told my husband that I would not enter any of his other cars thanx to the fear that my co-wife has put her royal self in them. Im going to stop the madness and just sit in any of his cars. My ego and anger has blinded my heart. Ive been keeping a lot in my heart in regards to how she has been treating me. Ive decided to forgive, forget and move on. Because the more arguments and rules I lay, it’s affecting my husband’s emotions, and he gets sick easily nowdays due to stress and even my fat furball gets down when he sees his daddy affected. I don’t want to start my ego and anger to affect my future kids and my household. I want to be on the right path as much as I can dear…. Really…. Its silly to try and segragate so many things. I am in a polygamous marriage, I guess sharing cars comes with it. But Im not complaining, Ive been given three personal cars to drive around. So ive got to be grateful and count me blessings.

    Im happy that you’ve started to take charge of your life. This life is short but I believe it’s got to be meaningful. Ive learnt yet another lesson in my path towards Allah s.w.t. that’s to lower my ego and arrogance. By the way, my co-wifes got herself a new BMW. She’s traded in her older one and got the latest 3 series… How do I know? My gossiping relatives…. ButI am happy for her,I believe she deserves the car. happy Allah s.w.t. has blessed her….

    Dear Jenny, the Bentley has always been my dream car happy …… I so loooooooooov that car. Yes you’re right, the one that comes in Black is the best. Congratulations bebs!

    Salam

  • Spirited

    November 24, 2013

    Salaam everyone, oooo lots of activity.

    Just a quick correction

    @Jenny, he didn’t say that his second wife told him about her herpes. Infact, he was trying to hide that it was her fault! When I showed him my recent blood test report, he was trying to say maybe he had it all along and gave it to me or I spontaneously got infected laughing Just when I was going to ask him that if he thought I was a new breed of moron, she texted him whining about her latest outbreak. His phone flashed the text across the screen and of course he had to admit he didn’t tell me because she didn’t tell him until recently and he figured he had been infected and passed it to me but since it’s a harmless STD, he thought it wasn’t a big deal.

    He and I didn’t have it before because he had a test to check the condition of his hepatitis b before coming to the states– that was 2 yrs into our marriage. It also included a few STDS which came back clear. I know I didn’t have herpes before his secret wife because the last time I had blood work, he was worried about me catching his hbv, even though I was immunized (school related, before I even married him) but he was still paranoid. I also asked for an STD panel for my own piece of mind and didn’t mention it to him. That test was all clean and this was before he says he started his affair.

    Aaaanywho, just wanted to clear it up that I don’t blindly trust what he says and i found it hilarious that Go picked that moment to have the fact spoken straight from the horse’s mouth — I actually laughed! Sure as far as STDS, it’s not dangerous, but the fact is, I would never have been infected if it wasn’t for both of them, that’s why it makes me angry.

    Well, I’ll be back later on, things to do, people to meet happy

  • ana

    November 24, 2013

    Isabell,

    What I see happening a lot is there are men who say they are Muslims (say Allah is God and accept Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) as one of Allah’s messengers.) Many of these men commit adultery. They commit adultery and end up “marrying” the woman who is usually non-Muslim, or maybe there is not adultery and they end up marrying the non-Muslim. Bottom line is it’s all pretty much a marriage/affair type situation. The Muslim man doesn’t abide by any of the dictates of Islam. The non-Muslim woman doesn’t have to and usually don’t.

    The matter isn’t really about polygamy. It’s more about marriage & affair = wife &mistress problems. It just a ball of confusion. Husband is torn between the two women. Women are hurt. They are in pain and suffer.

    What to do? Well, the woman can do as Jenny did – put her foot down and say what she would and would not accept and lay down the rules or the woman could get jerked around by her lover or “husband” and, as Gail would say, “deal” it. i dont know

    In most of these so called polygamous marriages, Allah is not considered. It’s all about Muslim men getting involved with women who Allah tells them not to marry and Muslim men being involved with women out of lust. Allah tells us not to marry for lust. Not many people seem to care about what Allah says.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Maureen

    November 24, 2013

    Assalamu Alaykum, Ladies,
    Just realized I did miss signing up for this (new) thread.
    A good sunday everyone.

    @Hilly,
    Where are you? I pray things are well on your end.

    Hugs
    M

  • Isabell

    November 24, 2013

    Dear all,

    thank you very much for your words. I have been going through your posts until early in the morning. You are all so brave to go through this. Every normal family has “family matters” per se and adding this huge burden on a women is just not right. I was sure and I was not wrong when I told him that there is no woman under this sky who would painlessly go into this, even if they grew up poor in some Pakistani village.

    @ Ana and Jenny,

    he is not a citizen. But his wife is. She was born and raised in Europe but she is Pakistani. And he is in Europe for 15 years. He doesn’t want to get the citizenship (some of his principals).. He would never “betray” his country. He came here to Europe to get all the degrees and by now he was sure he was going back to Pakistan but now he would go/do wherever we would want. But sometimes he says: I don’t know my future, I can’t tell you where we will be. Then again, he already said couple of times that he would like to go back to Pakistan with me. And live there.

    Did any of you did that?

    Sometimes I have a feeling he just wants to escape from everything…. for me this is not an option. Sooner or later it starts hunting you and I don’t want us to get to the point of regret or leaving the door open to create additional pain years in marriage.

    @Jenny

    He was. But not from the beginning. See, when we met, his ring was not on his finger. He told me after we felt in love with each other and when he forgot to remove the ring when he came back from his weekend trip with his wife and a child. Then he told me. And since, I see how he needs to exercise this move with putting it on and off, since everybody knows he is married but when I am around, he puts it off. He makes phone calls to her in front of me asking about the child. Everyday.

    Your husband had nothing to do with his wife because she lived in Pakistan, my “boyfriend” travels to them every weekend.

    I so agree with your perception of polygamy!

    @Spirited

    I have no idea what I am to him. I know for sure nobody knows about me to brag about. He would be making so much effort calling, texting, persuading me to see me – during the weekdays and then travel to his wive and a child for the weekends and not even text me for the whole weekend. Although he always says that he is feeling empty there without me. He is even encouraging me to find myself someone (if that would make me happy) and try to be with that other guy for the weekends. And when I said I couldn’t do it because my heart is with him, he says: Well that is just about how I feel when I am there. But they are my obligation, you are my love. I must do things for/with them but with you I want…” He is just so very good with words happy

    I didn’t say, he would easily leave his child (I know.. although this technology allow us to correspond, the feelings are missing in the words we write here, so we cannot know what kind of intonation you used to say the words. But I don’t believe any of you would react with blaming, so I will keep in mind all of your intonations are friendly). He never wanted that. He was always saying that Westerns – we break things in order to start over new. And he is more into building, not breaking. Which basically means he would like to build his family (adding a wife + children) rather than to break first and then build again. I understood. So, I rather passed.

    I have never, not even once said I want him to divorce. I don’t want him to divorce – I want this to be clear. I just said that I am not going into polygamy. Which means almost the same but it is not the same. I rather spend couple of years crying my love life didn’t evolve with him and then be with someone who would have me only. Like I have already said… I admire you all who went through this and you are coping with it. I don’t want to live in pain.

    If I was his wife, I wouldn’t go along with polygamy as well. However I would be even nicer to him just so he changes his mind about this other girl. I would have moved with him and leave my job and everything for him. This is why they are apart. She works far away. To me, my family is first. And would never let him work far away from me.

    Yes, if you believe I would deserve to be called a home wrecker, then yes. Although I don’t believe in this word. I am not putting a force to him. This is his own decision. You cannot always have what you want. And having one wife is a privilege and a blessing, many stay not married. But having two wives… luxury. Like having diamonds. But there is a bloody road to get them. By the wives, not himself. He already has a wife and a beautiful child. If he wants to be with me, he would have to sacrifice. I am in pain every weekend he goes to see them. I don’t want this for the rest of my life.

    And if I need to choose who to be hurt (me or him), I chose him to be hurt. It is his mess. He created it. There is still time to leave me alone. I keep on repeating him. I keep on leaving him. Although he knows what everything comes with by having me… he still keep on bringing me back. The wife being hurt in this case – not her fault. But she would be hurt either way. Polygamy or divorce. Might be I am completely wrong.

    To be very honest… I would rather find a solution where no pain would be for anyone. But whatever the decision, there is always pain involved. I would just die every time he would spend there, she would probably the same when with me, He would be in pain if he divorces, or I leave him.

  • Kim

    November 23, 2013

    @ Spirited,

    Oh I have told him very clearly. I don’t know if you recall or not but awhile back after she attacked me and then we all went silent for awhile, I spelled it out in words of one syllable, that if he communicated with that woman again I was done. His response was, then he’d have to move out. And he did soon after, for the 6 week break we had. Now, since she contacted him this time, and as far as I can tell he hasn’t reached out to her, I can’t really fault him – she had changed her number to get around the block that was on her old one and he didn’t know who was calling, since she also did the *80 or whatever it is to hide the number calling…it showed up as “unknown” on his phone. A few days later (I had blocked her number again, having found it on his account online I could see it even if it didn’t show up on his phone when she called), she called the voicemail number you can dial to just leave a voicemail without ringing someone’s phone. She knew how to do that since they use the same mobile phone service (Walmart Family Mobile). To the best of my knowledge, that’s been the extent of their communication. Of course he may be calling her from the phone at work or vice-versa but I’d have no way of knowing that. In any case, anything else happens and instigated by him, or if he accommodates her in any way shape or form and I find out…Allah is pretty good at pointing me to the truth when He feels I need to know it, well, game’s over as far as I’m concerned. I’m letting this last episode slide since he didn’t initiate it nor continue it as far as I can tell.

    Another thing happened recently. I was at the restaurant with M helping out one evening when they were short-handed, and M informed me that his old girlfriend “J” was there. I didn’t see her come in. That was fine with me, I actually went over and said hi. On a break he said to me as we were sitting outside that he hadn’t seen nor spoken to her in a long time and he was very surprised to see her (as was I). Well, just before she left I was at her table talking with her and her daughter, and “J” informed me she stopped by to see M just 2 weeks prior! Yeah, I was upset but I hid it….he’d lied again. Shocker. Now bear in mind, M had cheated on me with “J” several months before he met N, but I didn’t know of it until like a year later, when he was hot and heavy with N. Insult added to a hell of an injury. Ugh.

    In the grand scheme it’s probably not a big deal but it’s just part and parcel of M’s sneaky behavior and lying that I cannot deal with. It’s symptomatic of a biiiiig problem. Of course HE says he just “forgot” about her stopping by to see him at work and that it was a very brief conversation, but I am not totally sure I believe that. Now, I know I come off sounding like an extremely jealous, paranoid and insecure person and actually that’s far from the truth. The jealousy bit, at least is very untrue. What IS the truth is I haaaaaaate being made a fool of and M’s done a stellar job of that, he and these women both. I won’t allow myself to be made a fool of anymore if I can possibly help it.

  • Jenny

    November 23, 2013

    @ Spirited,

    This is your first mistake: your husband saying “she said.” How do you know what she said, did she say it directly to you? How do you know your husband did not infect you both? How do you know she didn’t tell your husband? Fact is, you don’t. The man lied to you a zillion times and when he tells you “she said”, you choose to believe him now???

    Thank G-d my husband never once said “she said”, or he knows certainly my food would have been up his a$$. Spirited, your husband is playing both ends against the middle. He’s the only smart one here!

  • Jenny

    November 23, 2013

    @ Ana,

    It’s high time you got your business into high gear! Time of excuses is O-V-E-R! Strike while the iron is hot Lady!! happy We’ve been talking about your business for how long now????

  • Spirited

    November 23, 2013

    Salaam everyone~

    I clearly have too much time on my hands today laughing

    @Ana, I hope your weekend is a blast with your husband! lol @ needing to be more humble, I don’t know about what other people would think, but that’s not boasting or bragging — it’s just sharing your joy!

    -_o that laptop is just playing games with you, don’t trust it (I’m joking happy ). I actually prefer desktops to other things, because you usually get much more power and versatility for the same (or in cases, less) price than a laptop. Plus, with a desktop, it’s a simple matter to upgrade parts and “keep up” with technology, but with a laptop, you’d have to buy a whole new one sad The bad part of a desktop, you can’t just recline and use it or be warm in bed and use it :/

    Oh, if you’re interested in a tablet (ipad or nexus 7 2nd gen are the bestest choices right now for a general tablet) then keep an eye out for any Black Friday deals! If I run across anything that’s a great deal, I’ll write in about it here, just for anyone who might be interested. Uh…sorry if I get carried away regarding technology sometimes — I’m not an expert, but I like to give input about tech that I have experience with to help if I can big grin

    What you said about writing things out to help the writer, I’ve no doubt that you are correct. I think I have read that somewhere else before too. Thank you for giving everyone here the opportunity to do exactly that. I hope you are getting lots of good deeds for it!

    @Kim, oh I like how you put that, “plan B-ing” That’s exactly right. And I only got to this point because of encouragement by everyone here to not let myself become a victim. It doesn’t mean I love my husband any less, but I’ve decided its better to be prepared for the “just in case” that some ladies here are warning me of because they’ve seen the signs before.

    Bullying is terrible, and when I was younger, teachers didn’t really do much about it. “oh it’s just kids being kids” was the standard. My dad was too busy (gone before we woke, home after we slept) so I don’t think he was even aware. Whatever my mom used to try, would make it worse if you can believe that laughing One time, she stayed at school all day and even had a sit down with some of the girls in my class at lunch to ask them why they picked on me and to be friends with me, but that just made them angrier and they added taunts about her (weirdly dressed, accent, fat mom jokes, etc. she wears a niqaab and due to thyroid problems + steroid asthma medication, had gained weight and couldn’t lose it). I used to get hit by tennis balls from the boys, be shoved into corners of the school where someone had urinated, never picked during gym class, never picked to be a partner for anything, and so on. It seems stupid how I still remember all this, but I don’t dwell on it. happy I did have friends at my first school, so I don’t think its anything I was doing wrong, but who knows now, lol. Oh, my point is that whatever the case, its in the past and whatever negative effects that all had, there could be a positive too — I feel that I might be a stronger person in other ways.

    I’m sorry to hear that your youngest is being bullied right now. But at least there are active programs to stop bullying these days and teachers take an active role. There are even school counselors! I think there’s a pretty good support system, plus, your son has his friends and of course you too (and I would say you’re a very strong person). I would be interested to follow what you and your son decide to do, if you don’t mind sharing. happy

    That’s exactly what Gail, Ana, Lynnette, Laila and Jenny are always saying — there’s a point that being patient won’t fly anymore. You said your husband asked for “one final chance” ? That sounds like you’ve given him more than a “second chance.” I wouldn’t go past a “second chance” with my own husband, and he knows this — that’s my limit. You’ve been more patient than I would be, if you’ve given him more chances. Have you mentioned to him that you don’t see anything changed? That you were happier during your mini-vacation from him? Maybe that’s why he’s trying to scare you with his “oh I’m going to leave if you think I’m cheating” (or whatever) — seems like he’s just puffing out his chest in response to you being strong. (at least, based on how I figure it. I’m probably wrong, lol). One thing that just occurred to me. I read something once that you should not dwell on regret about past decisions or actions. Own it and move on, look to the future and see how you can make things work out for you. Going back over decisions in the past can’t change anything unless you had a time machine.

    I’m not sure if anything I said helped, of course you all help me much more than I probably give in return laughing But it doesn’t seem like you need much because you’re a strong woman, mother, and you’ve got your contingency plan (“plan B”winking. Insha’Allah, things will work out for the best, whatever that may be.

    Time for me to shove off. Goodnight everyone, sleep tight.

  • ana

    November 23, 2013

    As Salaamu Alaikum and Peace to All,

    I’m hopeful everyone is having a fantastic weekend. happy Alex is with me this weekend, which is a beautiful thing. He’s always a sweetheart. He has a really good disposition. I never see him grumpy; when he’s with me, there is nothing to be grumpy about laughing Is that too much? I know. I need to be more humble. I haven’t boasted and bragged in a good while though. So, I think I’m doing pretty good. LOL.

    Oh, you would believe lol my laptop is working just fine since I’ve ordered the new one. Isn’t it usually how it goes? Alex had wanted me to get a desk top. I’m like – Are you kidding me? This almost 2014. What am I going to do with a desk top? worried I need to get an IPad a Note or whatever else is out there, but definitely I have no need of a desk top – In the office – yes – when I start operating the businesses, but not until then.

    @Jenny,

    You took the words right out of my mouth. I was going to ask Isabell if this man who she speaks of is a Citizen.

    I’m so glad you’ve got some time to stop in and chat with us for a while. I’m interested in going with Alex to see the play you spoke of. I could use a good laugh laughing Alex and I haven’t seen a play over in the city in quite a while. Insha Allah, we’ll get over there after the holidays. You know me; I love New York City. Thinking back, I must have been nuts to ask Alex, if he wanted us to move there LOL I’m okay driving in the city, but I haven’t ventured to drive there alone. I still haven’t gotten over there to “Abigale’s”. “The Second Avenue Deli” doesn’t have the same quality it did when they were actually on Second Avenue.

    I’m glad all is excellente with your businesses and with your families, as well. happy Insha Allah, when you head over to Europe you’ll have a well deserved break. In the mean time, it’s good you’re taking some time out for the facial, mani/pedi; they are most relaxing. happy

    @Isabell,

    Welcome to our home. It’s so nice you’ve met quite a few of our family here. Everyone is wonderful and contribute to us being what we are. My wali/bestess says our blog got a page rating of 3 from google out of a 1-10. Alhumdulliah.

    @Spirited,

    Thank you much for taking time to expound on some of the things we spoke of regarding you. I think by you writing it out, it helped you, as well. I find writing about what I think and feel helps me much. happy Thanks again.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Kim

    November 23, 2013

    Asalaam aleikum again (woohoo, on my computer again!)

    Aishah, I feel for you. It does sound like maybe – MAYYYBE – things may be improving in your situation with hubs and co, insha Allah that’s true. You’re doing great holding your own household down no matter what happy

    Spirited, my dear, I see a lot of me in you. I am not sure at all that “arrogant” is a word I’d choose to describe you….the opposite, actually. I see you “plan B’ing” a LOT, in case the whole thing with your hubby and co implodes and he ends up with her fulltime. You have your own ducks in a row in case that happens, and of course I highly advise anyone in this situation to do just that. I have done it; my plan B is still in place and in fact has been worked on all along. Whether it’s called into service is a matter that only Allah swt knows for sure. Same with you. No matter what happens, you’re taking care of yourself. You’re not depending on your husband for anything. You love him, he loves you, and if that’s enough to keep that engine (marriage between you) chugging, great. If not, you’re not going to curl up and die. Alhamdulillah happy

    The story you related of growing up bullied just about did me in. How awful was that….my youngest is bullied to the point I am ready to take him out of school whether or not we go to Kashmir, but it isn’t anywhere near what you experienced. He at least has some good friends who have his back even if many others go out of their way to pick on him. Anyway, I think growing up that way (compounded by the put downs by your own family!!??) have affected you deeply – how could it not? And has manifested into your “que sera sera” attitude in your marriage. I get it. OH BOY do I get it.

    However, I’m not sure I can “que sera sera” anymore. I see where it’s gotten me. Ana has spoken about taking control of situations, Gail clearly illustrated the need to recognize when being patient crosses into doormat-land. M said something the other day to me that really really made me think about where I am in this regard – patient or doormat? He stated he isn’t cheating, and I believe that right now. He also said he will leave first before anything like that happens. Nice to know. But it begs the question, why am I bothering to look forward to our marriage’s future, to Kashmir, to growing old together, when he could be out the door at any moment? He’s proven he’s certainly not above cheating, so it’s easy to believe he’ll do it again. Therefore, I am not counting on anything where he is concerned. Instead, I am working to secure my own self, and my youngest child who is still entirely dependent upon me. M can do what the hell he likes. He begged and pleaded for one final chance and I (reluctantly) gave in. I’m starting to regret it. Nothing really has changed within him, and I’m not at all happy or content or at peace in this marriage. I was much happier during our 6 week break.

  • Spirited

    November 23, 2013

    Salaam all, aaaand I’m back

    @Isabell, hey again! Hmmmm well I’m no one to judge this man, just stating some facts earlier, considering he is supposedly a Muslim, he is indeed sinning up a storm laughing. Anyway, you’re also correct that he should tell his wife. I wouldn’t be surprised if she suspects something is up and he’s lying to her. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s lying to you as well. Please remember, Pakistani men are experts at tricking women, at lying and deceiving. Even if they know nothing else, they know this quite well. They are also VERY interested in having a “western girl on the side” and I wouldn’t be surprised if he brags to his friends that he’s “doing a white whore.” I am sorry, but I know for a fact that Pakistani men have these kinds of conversations — I do have Pakistani cousins who tell me so themselves, and I have heard the same from many other sources — men & women included. I would be very careful and consider all this before making a decision. To me, it really does just sound like he wants to keep you for his fun and enjoyment. If he “says” he will so easily leave his wife and newborn, who is to say he won’t just leave you as easily for someone else? How would you even know if he actually divorces his wife? He could just lie to you to make you stop arguing and you’d never know you were living in polygamy (if he played his cards right).

    I say all this from personal experience, and from seeing many examples here. Even now, I do not trust my husband like I used to. I’m still wary and am mentally prepared (I hope) for any chance of him breaking his word. As they say, once a cheater, always a cheater. [As for my situation, I believe that a person can change and if someone begs for a second chance, they deserve at least that much (in my opinion). In your case, this would be something that man's wife would have to decide.] To sum up, I would simply caution you to be careful and take a good long look at every angle. I guess you really believe this “true love” farce, you believe him when he says he doesn’t “love” his wife and he “had” to marry her. You believe he’s fine giving up his entire family — parents, cousins, siblings, nephews, nieces, grandparents — to just be with you. You are empathic to his wife’s feelings, but you should ideally place yourself in her position — what would you do if you were her? You should keep in mind that most (not all) muslim women will eventually accept polygamy for whatever reason. You have said you will not and I’m sorry if this sounds mean, but this shows you won’t be happy unless you are a home-wrecker and break apart a family that would otherwise have loving parents and happy child (or children) able to grow up in a normal, stable family structure — instead of custody wars, “visitations” etc. You said yourself, he told you he would be broken if he could not see his child, why would you want to put him through it? In polygamy, at least, its different than forcing a divorce. Well, those are my thoughts on what you’ve said. Again, I apologize if I’ve said anything upsetting, I’m just trying to give you my perspective.

    Oh, I just remembered, another member here who I haven’t seen in some time was in a similar situation to you. The man she was having an affair with constantly put off marrying her under some pretense or another. She spent years waiting for him, believing every word that he said. She even left and he drew her back in again, using her and never fulfilling his promises — just like you said your Pakistani guy does with you. So, again, I would advise caution. happy I hope nothing I have said is stupid — sometimes I can’t tell laughing

    @Aishah, you’re correct that I haven’t had an outbreak myself (yet), but my doctor said sometimes people don’t have any symptoms so maybe I wouldn’t need to deal with that. Here’s hoping! Condom use wouldn’t really matter now, because I’m already infected and there’s no cure sad He should have told me before, then I could have taken preventive measures — but he says she never told him either until it was too late. Shows how much morality she has rolling eyes

    @Kim, it’s very unfair that you’re potentially back in limbo. You’re very strong that you’ve made an ultimatum — have you told your husband? Have you told him that if he throws you into that same limbo that you’re leaving? Of course, there’s no need to share personal details if you don’t want to. I hope your chicken didn’t burn! laughing Please keep in touch!

    @Lynnette, that sounds like so much work — 30 pages at the last minute? Amazing…
    The “case study” thing made me think that there really could be an interesting report made up out of studies of various women’s polygamy experiences! lol, that would really be something. I’ve tried to explain my motivations to answer most of your points in the post I made to Ana, I hope you don’t think its rude of me not to repeat the information happy. I would love to see what you think about what I had said — am I just stupid? I’ve thought maybe I have a kind of depression, but like I said, I always try to remain happy. I’ve had too much sadness through points in life so far and it doesn’t make sense to just stay depressed all the time, it’s not going to help me get through whatever situation I’m in — that’s what I usually think.

    @Laila, lol I can’t believe how much other people and gossip can mess up someone’s quiet life (that’s besides the point of giving you a “other wife used” car). He really should have told you the truth about that car before giving it to you. You were thinking it was new (or used but from a dealership) so that was wrong of him to lead you on. If it isn’t too private, what have you and he done with the car now? Is he going to make you keep it? Is he going to sell it and buy you a new one?

    You, and everyone else, gave me some more things to think about. I should be more aggressive, or at the very least, not let him take me for granted (if that’s what he is doing). I spoke with him about some more things you guys have brought up. He listened quietly and gave a few answers after thinking for a while — I asked him about the money issue, brought up the time issue again, and a few other things. Since then, he’s been thanking me every few days for being patient with him and giving him a chance to show he means what he has said. He says he knows no one believes him and I’m right to be wary, but he aims to show everyone that he’s not as irresponsible as he has been so far. I said, Insha’Allah, we will see but he shouldn’t expect me to have my hopes high. happy Also, I wanted to thank you for sharing your personal experience and although I’m not replying to it directly, I’m keeping what you said close. I like the idea of having those sayings right on your fridge so you can see them everyday also! big grin

    @Gail, ooo I haven’t seen you around for a few days. How is everything going?
    I don’t believe my husband is going to pick me over her and his baby. I don’t believe either way right now. I don’t put any stock in his family’s support of me — I’m not their child, so I don’t expect any special concern for me from my in-laws. The only things I believe in right now are God and my own plans to get into a DO school. This is funny, but my husband recently said that if he had to choose only one of us, he would be a loser. He says he doesn’t want to lose either woman. I don’t really put too much emphasis (mentally) on what he’s saying, I would rather see it reflected in his actions. happy

    I don’t have a positive view of my husband’s 2nd wife at the moment because of her actions. Obviously I don’t know her, so I can only base my opinion on how manipulative she is, on hiding her STD, etc. Its interesting you mentioned that my husband is a player and would probably want another wife! lol I also said the same to him at one point! He had instantly gotten a wide-eyed, worried expression and said he regrets even ever having a 2nd because he can’t handle the stress (mental stress, all the travelling making him physically tired, being constantly worried, etc) and there’s no way he would want more unless he was insane and had a suicide wish! laughing Well, whatever he says, if the reality is different, I’m exiting the party and I have already told him that. No doormat-ing for me, thanks! That’s why I always try to tell you guys everything that goes on, so you can see if I’m being an idiot and you can tell me to wake up! lol

    @Ana, I also forgot to say, how is your new laptop? I’m guessing you must have gotten it by now! I hope everything is good with it. Its probably come with Windows 8 on it since its new, correct? Do you like the way that OS works? I think it’s great for a touch-screen, kind of awkward for a regular computer (tried it out a store. I’m still sticking with Windows 7 myself).

    Ok! I think I’ve caught up now! If I missed addressing something, please bring it up again, especially if its something someone really waned me to respond to. Its also time for Salat again, wow.
    I hope Maureen and Tazzz are doing good. We haven’t heard back from them in a while. I’ll check in again, hope everyone is doing well! Lots of love and prayers for everyone! <3

  • Jenny

    November 23, 2013

    @ Isabell,

    Welcome to the club! Another victim sucked in by those smooth talking, sexy Pakistani men!

    First question ~ and this might be the deal breaker ~ is he a citizen?

    Second, he was honest with you. My husband was honest with me many moons ago when we met. Like you, I am not Muslim, I’m Jewish. Polygamy was out for me. My husband told me the same thing about not loving the cousin. Guess what? Those are not love marriages. Unfortunately, these dastardly cousin marriages are heartbreaks in the making. The men do as mommy says, they live in another country and discover love.

    There was no trial in my life. In for a penny, in for a pound. But I did attach a sh*tload of stipulations on him before we married. Thing was, my husband really had nothing to do with the cousin, other than travel to Pakistan three times to produce children and backed up what he said with a passport. It was years since he went to Pakistan when we met and he hasn’t been back since we’ve been married ~ which is a very long time. Like you, I made sure that there was no involvement because I did not want to be a homewrecker. Ultimately, its been about 18 months or so, he finally divorced her, but she still lives in the family home, which is fine with me. Sharing a husband is not okay with me. I understand the Muslim precepts, but it is not me, so I totally understand your point. It totally blows my mind about men having wives in different countries or not living with them period. Kinda reminds me of a sailor having a woman in every port. sad Yet, I do know that I had a weird kind of marriage, even though he never was with her. My mother-in-law and my husband appointed me the head of the family, which means I make the decisions of what goes on in Pakistan as well. Yes, that even means making decisions for her as well.

    Hubby’s cousin had nothing to say when she found out we had married. Was she really thinking he would have remained a vestal virgin living in another country, never returning home???

    I am very happy with my husband. He is my best friend. We are together 24/7, never apart. We work together, owing several businesses. Our desks are literally only a couple of feet apart. Like your man, my husband was never “in love” before either. Don’t know what to tell you. Other than me, many of the women here have went through extreme heartbreak. With that said, my advice to you is to handle yourself like you were swimming with Jaws in a kiddie pool. Sorry to say, the odds are highly stacked against you, but not impossible. I hope your man is like my man. At least he was honest with you, so you may have hope.

  • Isabell

    November 23, 2013

    Dear Spirited,

    thank you very much for your words.

    You are perfectly correct. I am in conflict with myself. Should I believe or not.

    Like you said, he said it as well, that he is not really practising, since what he is doing is completely wrong and against his beliefs. But he does it because he felt in love in me. While I am taking on his behalf, please take in consideration that this are all his words, not something I want to believe in or making myself believe in. But for me one who prays, mentions words after eating, wishing something (sorry I am not really familiar with the words to write them down) is one who is practising.

    I made it very clear that I would not live “threesome” way and if he is up to it, he should forget it. Even if after 2 years of trial period (exaggerating) I would leave him if things wouldn’t change. I just don’t want to spend all those years with him, if he already knows he will stay married.

    He is right about this trial period because he cannot be sure about me. He always says he can promise me he would never in his life leave me but he is not sure I would do the same. I had previous relationships with men and when things were not working out, I left. He is afraid of that. That he will leave everything for me, cut himself from a family tree and in few years I would be having some second thoughts, I would leave him. He wanted to make sure, I am ready to spend my live with him, as he would with me. That I should see if I actually like him and where the “problems” might accrue. We were not able to figure those things by now, cause all the time we are discussing this main issue. I am stuck there and nothing else is now a problem. But might be if he was not married, other things would come to a surface that for now don’t have that huge weight due to the problem which is the heaviest.

    We are intimate and we are very active. We bond so good and sweeps my feet from the floor as I do to him. I do consider us a perfect match. However, those drawbacks are just to hard for me.

    To be very honest, I do not believe in monogamy, people, we are not monogamist. Monogamy is a decision you make with your partner. So at one point we are all hurt. I am very empathic person and I hate every single pain she is going through. I don’t blame him for that. I believe in true love. And if that happened for him for the first time… I don’t blame him to be confused. He was/is still a wonderful husband to her (apart the this thing with me). We do irrational things… The problem I see is that he didn’t have previous experiences with other women and relationships and didn’t grew with this part of the life to know how to react. I do believe he should be telling his wife he has something with me immediately and give her a choice to decide whether she wants this or not. Not just drag me into this to her. I am not advocating his actions though.

    I am leaving him every time he goes to see them. And each time he finds a solution to bring me back. I am in pain. And she is as well. He needs to make a move. This way, none of us is happy. Not even him listening the same complaining from my side and her side.

    He made it very clear he is going to try to win me back every time I want to part. That he loves me and he would do anything to be with me. Even to part from them. That it will take time for him to process, but he will learn to live without them. Although he deeply loves his child and would break him not to be able to see him.

    I am just so confused.

  • Aishah2013

    November 23, 2013

    spirit salaams! I’m not always in good spirits no worries just have to keep pushing and praying.had to respond to the ” mouth sores outbreak”…cover your ears ladies.remember she could spread that to him thru oral manuevers on the member and he could bring it to you in the nether regions as well ( I’m getting that your bloodwork reflects the presence of it but you haven’t had outbreak anywhere.excuse me if I read wrong).please be careful! maybe u should elect for condom use.no not 100% but maybe a little help.sorry if graphic.but looking out for you

  • Spirited

    November 23, 2013

    Salaam everyone,

    @Isabell, welcome! I’m so glad you”ve shared your story and I’m sure you will get some great advice here. I find it hilarious that it’s — yet again — a Pakistani man who is involved in potentially breaking two hearts.

    From what I have read, you seem to have already made your personal decisions and have set limits to what you will tolerate. If you’ve really sat down and thought about it — I mean really thought about this — and you’re sure that you can’t ever accept polygamy, and that you don’t wish to cause heartache to this man’s wife, then maybe it would be best to follow your instincts on this. You really seem to have a great head on your shoulders — you’ve said you aren’t sure about doing this “trial living together” idea that Paki man has brought up. Of course I don’t know him, and I can only guess, but it really does just sound like a way for him to get his rocks off on the side and keep everything with his family going smoothly.

    You’ve said he is religious, however, if he were actually religious, he would not be going on dates with women who are non-mehram to him, and he wouldn’t have suggested such a thing as a “trial period to stay together.” An actual religious man would not be intimate with women he is not married to. (I don’t know if the two of you have been, but I’m just pointing that out). I personally do not believe many Pakistani men are capable of being religious these days, and the entire Ummah needs God’s help to get themselves back on track, but the shiny distractions of the world keep them far away. But I’ve gotten off track laughing

    So you have said you will only stay with him if he divorces his wife, so that sounds like you have already made up your mind. But at the same time, you are very empathic to his wife’s feelings and would not want to hurt her (personally I think that’s very noble and kind of you), so this sounds like you are conflicted. From what I can make out from reading what you’ve written of your story, it sounds like you’re actually not entirely sure yet. You aren’t sure if you should walk away from this impending mess or jump in and roll with the punches. The only thing I would suggest is not to base any decision on what he says. Pakistani men are very good at sweet-talking women to get what they want and if you read many women’s stories here — they are equally good at lying and hiding the truth. You need to decide what you will be able to tolerate in your life and look at the situation from as many angles as possible. You sound like a very smart, sweet and caring person and I am sorry that I can’t help you more. I bet some of the other women can give you much better advice so please check in again!

    @Aishah, thanks for your encouragement! I’m glad you guys are here also! It’s a good point that we have to take things one day at a time happy. You made me smile so much with the thought of you falling asleep while giving your husband a back rub, that’s adorable! You seem to be in good spirits, I hope that it continues that way.

    @Jenny, so glad to hear your business(es) are working out that well! May God continue to bless you! I didn’t know NYC is your hometown, the world isn’t such a big place after all! lol. I think the city is an acquired taste and suits some people more than others laughing I’m not too impressed with all the “lights” and flashy stuff. I don’t mean to be insulting, but to me, NYC city seems to epitomize all of the things that Islam warns Muslims to be wary of — this could be part of the reason I have an aversion to it. Regardless, I have met some really great people and it is truly a “melting pot” of every culture imaginable, but its just not for me!

    Oh, my sides hurt laughing the way you write. I literally imagined you picking up a T-shirt with your “Been there, done it, got the T-shirt” statement laughing. You were in the train wreck and survived, though you are a much stronger and “go get ‘em” type of person than I am. I’ve got you guys here, family, and I pray for God’s protection and guidance daily. I feel like whatever comes — good or bad — I will always have these three things with me every step of the way. Even if I mess up royally, I don’t think the ladies here would forsake me, and of course family would not either. And as long as I don’t forget God, He will not forget me. What more could a person ask for? At least, that’s the way I think.

    Almost forgot, yes, I tested positive for herpes 1 the most recent time I had myself tested. I know I didn’t have it last time I had a test done. Its also been confirmed that he got it from his 2nd wife because it just so happened that when I was discussing it, a text popped up on his phone (its a big phone, easy to read the texts flashing across the top) she was declaring that she was currently having another outbreak of mouth sores. God’s timing is something else I tell ya, lol. Thank you for saying you will always be here for any help, I know I can count on you and everyone else here whenever necessary!

    I have to attend to my Salat, so I’ll be back later on to get to the rest of the comments I keep running out of time on! Talk to you ladies soon~

  • Jenny

    November 23, 2013

    Sorry for the typos. On the iPad.

  • Jenny

    November 23, 2013

    Hello Ladies!

    Sorry I’ve been popping in and out like a schnoorer! It’s not that I’m busy with work, it’s been all these extra projects that have been keeping me busy! The only reason I have a few minutes today is because I am off to get my mani & pedi and forgot they changed their hours from 9 am to 10 am. So, I am having a relaxing breakfast of a spinach and goat cheese omelette and cappuccino until they this is where we used to live when hubby and I ate ramen noodles while building up the business.

    This place I’m at right now is quite downright funky and has always been my favorite. Hubby is good friends with the owners parents. He’s half Pakistani, half white. Grew up Muslim, but in high school joined a motorcycle gang and has a million tattoos, and has since returned to Islam. HAs the typical Muslim beard that is hennaed too! laughing

    Hubby has the squids with him in the office and sent me out to get pampered. Had a lovely facial last night too. Yesterday, I had two very important meetings that both went my way. Not only did they go my way, but went better than expected! When I called hubby from the city, excited to tell him how everything went, I came back to the office and had tea and sweets and our friends there to celebrate (Pakistani custom). My husband didn’t think I could pull it off because no other companies before me could pull off this deal, but I did it! Actually, this was my week for pulling rabbits out of my a$$. The rest of the week I pulled off a few things I’ve worked on the past two years and made me the first in industry to do what I did. happy just the one deal netted me more money than I could have dreamt of, and I do nothing for it. My husband and I could only thank G-d for allowing it to happen. Tonight hubby is taking me out a very romantic restaurant. We couldn’t go last night because they closed for Shabbat, but they open tonight after Shabbat.

    So, that’s all that up with me. The insurance has taken off and has immediately been profitable. Thursday I hired another broker, who will also be my new assistant. She worked in marketing for two major companies, so I know she can handle the stress. I’m excited she’ll be starting after Thanksgiving. Will take a lot of stress off me.

    Things with Pakistan have been lovely too, thanks G-d. Lots of “Love You’s” flying around. happy

    @ Spirited,

    I am sad to hear you don’t like my hometown! sad. This city has been so good to me! The businesses and I my husband and I do could not have worked anywhere but here, except for our restaurants. There is no city in the world like NYC. Yes, it does get overwhelming at times, which is why the majority of the population spends their summers outside of NYC. happy. We have a home in the Hampton’s and spend our summers there. Times Square has to be one of the best places in the world ~ it is so obnoxious!

    Last Friday we caught a Broadway show ~ First Date. We laughed until we cried. We are going to another show on the 6th. You can only do these things in NYC ~ no place else is the same.

    I’m not going to rehash what everyone said to you, but I would put my foot down on the money issue. I see your attitude a little different then the other ladies here. I see you with a “Skippidty-Doo-Da” attitudes while denial may be a great defense mechanism for awhile, it becomes a bitch when you finally plow head first on the concrete and your world crashes on you. Been there, done it, got the T-shirt. What I see is a train wreck that is fixing to happen and you’ll be the one caught in on it.

    I missed the majority of what you said about the herpes issue. Please give me the thumbnail again. Did you catch it too? Just remember, he caught it from somewhere. In my marriage, we turned it into a positive, but our challenges are different from yours. Not sure how you are handling it. I’m here if you want to talk about it.

    @ Lynette,

    Thank you for the link, and thank you Ana for sending it. I’ve actually found it as I’ve been all over that website. Instead I got my nephew a full tuition grant with a program that is offered in the city. My husband is still amazed I pulled that one off too! Tonight (which is tomorrow in Pakistan), my nephew will be taking the TOFEL. We’ve been studying on Skype. He did so well I told him to stop studying! happy

    With regards to money, when my husband was married to his cousin, he was not “fair,” but if he was fair, he would have gotten bodily injury from me. Things need to be ironed out right from the get go. If a man has wives living in two different countries, standard of living must be taken into account. $10,000 in Pakistan enables you to live like a king for a very long time, where here in NYC it is barely a months rent.

    When I married I put money in the company and worked circles around my husband. I was making sure my security was taken care of, and everything we buy/have is in my name alone.

    @ Laila,

    I cracked up about your BMW story. My husband surprised me with a Bentley a few years ago and the headrests and door runners have our names on it. My husband loves to put our names or initials together. A lot of our company names are anagrams of our initials or names. Hubby was hinting around that Santa may surprise me this year with a new car, what color did I want? Dah! Onyx Black! We’ve put a lot miles on the Bentley (which he bought me new), so I’m sure he wants to trade it in for a new one. Our personal cars we only keep for two years, then trade in for a new one. The Bentley is now three, but for the price, we milked it for another year.

    Ok, it is time for me to run and get my mani & pedi. Talk to you gals later.

    Love and miss everyone!

    P.S. How is my ice cream bandit doing?

  • Laila

    November 23, 2013

    Dear Spirited, just got home after work and my body aches have started again. Just a quick one…. Ur patience is remarkable. May Allah s.w.t. Guide and protect you and make your path in life easier. ( hugs )

    Salam.

  • Isabell

    November 23, 2013

    Hi to all of you.

    I have been desperately browsing the net to find a source for help in understanding deeper a situation I have let myself been drawn into.

    Let me tell you my story in short.

    I am a European girl who felt in love with a Pakistani guy here in Europe. We met, felt in love and where the story was suppose to end with “…and lived happily ever after!”, the story started to evolve into a daily struggle.

    I am not religious person and him practising the religion was quite a step for me to digest, but yet again, he at least never was forcing me into doing it, so was ok.

    After dating him for couple of months he told me he was married to one of his cousins who was born and raised in Europe but is actually a Pakistani (contracted marriage) and has a newly born. When I thought my life was breaking apart, new information would come like… he could never divorce her since his whole family would disown him, that he will loose the rights to his child… We were practically living together, since the wife lives far away. Was really hard for me and I couldn’t and still can’t see me being with him as a second wife.

    He says that he has something for me, he has never experienced before, he had never even believed in those feelings. That he never loved her, just respected her and did what everybody was expecting him to do. To marry her. But now, he says he would even leave her for me.

    He started to feed her information about having another wife, being with someone when he is not with her… but never really told her precisely about me. She is feeling very stressed and somehow she does have a feeling about my existence. He told her that he wants a break of her (this is what he is telling me he is saying to her – somehow even I know he is not really true to his wife, I still believe him). But is he for real? I have no idea what to think. Is it really possible for him to leave her? She is a very, very, very nice person (never met her but I do hear her a lot while talking to him). In my opinion she is the most perfect wife + she fits in his cast, religion, beliefs, mindset. I would not be – I am not a believer, I like the wine over a dinner, I like to dress fashionably, I don’t have any intention of changing/adopting a religion, wearing scarfs to hide my hair… in short: I come from a different world. But he loves me. And I love him.

    I know I would like to be with him. But only if he divorces. With all do respect to all the women who are able to cope with another women in their lives – I admire all you. I am just not that strong. I am even in pain cause I know his wife is now in pain. And share his pain of what he might really do. The thing is also, I want him happy. If being married to her, makes him happy, I am fine. I am in this case leaving. But I cannot and will not be happy being a second wife. So, I’d rather part. But If he leaves her and makes him unhappy, I again, don’t think WE would then be happy. I have tried for a long time to understand the polygamy, I do. I don’t mind if there is. Just not everyone is for everything, I am to selfish to share him.

    He wants us now on a trial. To see how we work. But I don’t want to spend year(s) in trial version period (where I cannot plan things like moving in together, having a family…winking, and not be sure he will not say in couple of years that same story “I cannot divorce, please consider her like a sister..” (which for me is even worse! sharing my partner with my sister).

    Bare in mind they are both highly educated people and with profound knowledge of all of the religions. He would answer to my scepticism in such a way, that even I was astonished of the answers. Though I am still not a believer.

    She would never leave him and/or do anything to jeopardise their marriage before/between and after whatever he plans to do.

    I just want different opinions. I am only discussing things with my friends who have no knowledge of this side of the world and somehow I am loosing hope.

    Warmly,
    Isabell

  • Spirited

    November 23, 2013

    Salaam to everyone!

    I just got home half an hour ago (12:30am). Soooo tired. Every time I have to make a trip to NYC, I need a day to recover from the ordeal laughing I truly hate that city, I swear.

    @Ana, Walaikum As-Salaam dear Ana, First of all, please don’t feel bad or guilty! You haven’t said anything insulting as far as I am concerned <3. Infact, I have wanted to beat my husband up as well (often! lol). I mean hey, we could tag-team him!
    Let's see, I read through what you said again, and I would like to explain a few things you spoke about. Please don't take it as an affront, but I would like to clear up the air a bit. Oh and I would just like to say, I try to keep myself happy despite whatever is going on — I am aware this is a personal defense mechanism I use to combat the general "suck" that my life has included ever since I was little — not for any sinister reason happy

    True, I did say I don't need anything — but I said that in regards to anything from my husband, because so far, in our marriage even before polygamy, he has not provided very much for me. It was because of me that we had our apartment, I also did the shopping, cooking, taking care of bills, taking care of any paperwork that came our way, I did our taxes, letter writing, I bought him a car with money I had been saving for over 10 yrs — and so on. I meant to say that I am not dependent on him, thanks to Allah, and I did not want to seem that I am desperately clinging onto him for fear of how I would get along in the world without him. I had wanted to show that the main reason I chose to stay with him was because he is my husband, and I love him dearly. He says he loves me as well, and had seemed sincere when he asked me to give him a second chance (his actions will prove if he was sincere or not). Does that make sense?

    Let's see, for when I had said I didn't want anything, I'm not sure, but I might have just been saying that in general, I don't require much material things out of life. My parents grew up poor, and though they have done well (middle class here in the States) they kept the same mentality of being careful with money and not throwing money around for nothing — this is a good way to live in general (as in, do you really need $200 shoes when $50 ones are just as good?) and growing up like that, I valued whatever I had and still do. So, I'm sure I might have meant that, and apologize if I came off arrogant.

    As for your 3rd point, I really can't figure out how that impression of me having all the answers might have come about. I can only think of when I try to write out what my husband has said in reply to questions that are asked here. Maybe my wording was off? I'm sorry about that happy

    OH, in regards to my uncle's generous offer of paying for my education, I did not mean that once I were to achieve the goal (Insha'Allah), I would repay him by throwing the same amount of money back at his face. I had meant that I would like to repay him in some way — the best ideas I had were to donate the same amount to an orphanage or help some needy muslim families. This is because I would feel like such a deadbeat to simply take his money, especially when he doesn't have as much leeway with it right now because of his divorce — as a cousin (one of his children) says, his ex-wife is cleaning him out for all he's worth. sad So many problems all around.

    For what you said about me arrogantly saying that I was sure I would enter Heaven. I would ask you to please take note that I always included "Insha'Allah" or "God willing" or I had said things to the effect of that I pray I am able to get to Heaven. There is no way that I would be so crass as to assume I am definitely headed that way. Even if a person lives their whole life in the purest manner, it could be that one single sin would send them towards the Hellfire, whilst another person who had sinned their whole life could be forgiven for doing one single good deed. It's all up to Allah, and I am not in any way delusional about this. If I had missed saying "Insha'Allah" in any instance that I spoke of Heaven, that was purely in error. I never said that my husband needs me. He isn't a baby and I don't have any power to make him do anything. I said that I was worried for him and would like to help him get a better grip on the straight path to Allah. He had started leaving his salat and such, a few years after he arrived in the USA. I never gave up reminding him to turn to Allah and praying for guidance for him from Allah — I still do pray for Allah's guidance for him. He has slowly begun to be more like himself and I only worry that his non-muslim wife would lead him astray since the call of Shaitan is pretty strong with most muslims these days. There's nothing against trying to help others in Islam, or am I wrong?

    I remember saying that I don't want my husband with me if he doesn't want to be when we were discussing about schedules. I had said that I was in that boat of not having a schedule, but that I am willing to put up with it for now because of "new baby fever" and that if I force my husband to be with me on a weekend that he was looking forward to seeing his baby, he would be resentful and I wouldn't enjoy his company. Therefore, what would be the point? I had meant that in this sort of situation, when he's happy to take a weekend to stay here on his own, that's a much more enjoyable time spent together. I didn't mean about him not being happy to stay in the marriage laughing I can see how that might have been confusing, I wasn't very clear, apologies!

    You're absolutely correct of course with Allah's statements on how husband should be maintainer of the wife and this is a major area he needs to work on. Remember, we didn't move with my parents until after his affair-marriage-imminent baby was revealed, so that did not happen in the order you wrote. And yes, he is also deficient in being a provider and time management. I've never denied this, but he has asked for a chance and some time to prove his word. Whether he is playing a game with me or not will be revealed and only Allah knows what is in store. I can only prepare myself as best as possible, and that's what I have been trying to do. Mentally through this blog, and economically by changing careers (though this was something I had already started on before polygamy).

    I had thought that I was already tackling the problem in my own way by having chosen a path and sticking to it to see where it leads. I'm not sure what my parents believe because one day they will be encouraging me to "get him thrown out of the country" (revenge) and the next, they will be happy that I am not giving up on my marriage, another day they will say I am stupid for staying with him, and yet another day they will tell me inspirational stories of polygamous women and the benefits. I don't think they've decided what they would like because they too must be emotionally hurt and they do love him like a son as well. These days, they seem to be happy with making jokes at his expense to his face but otherwise being supportive of us staying together. They do also remind him that he needs to be fair if he intends to stay married to both women and they don't see him being fair so far. My mom often breaks out the Quranic verses about that. She has been learning Arabic for a few months and has gotten pretty good at it now, so she'll recite and then go back and translate every word. My husband listens without a word and will sometimes do a quiet prayer. Again, please do not misunderstand that I am "defending" him or anything of the sort. I am just stating facts, or events as I see them. happy

    My poor self image is because of my treatment as I was growing up, I know this because I have had plenty of time to reflect. I mentioned briefly before, that I was shunned by classmates — and it was always the very same classmates all through elementary school, then high school as well. I had my clothes ripped by them, hair pulled, avoided like a leper (if I wasn't actively being picked on, I was ignored and often spent lunchtime/recess playing with rocks or planting seeds to watch them grow. I specifically remember creating a "rock family" using rocks of different sizes in a quiet corner of the school yard under a tree). If anyone was seen being "friendly" to me, that person would also be bullied until they proved they hated me as much as everyone else. I don't know why I was singled out this way, I can only think it was because I was "the new kid" when we moved to this state from another — I was 7 at the time. Even though other new kids would come later through the years, the classmates never seemed to get tired of bullying me. My parents also added to this, but that was when I was in college and marriage was a big worry for them with my father remarking that I was ugly and it would be hard to find someone to marry me. My mother saying that I had been a beautiful child, what happened to me? Perhaps those could have been jests, and most likely my parents didn't mean what they said but by that point in my life, my personality was already set which included my almost non-existent self-esteem. I've gotten better since then. Being married to my husband, he actually encouraged me to come out of my shell and my in-laws actually seemed to enjoy the few jokes I had and my taste in family movies, some recipies, etc. All of this has helped. Plus the internet. I've always been more comfortable writing than speaking (that's because I believe my voice sounds like I am mentally handicapped, but that's yet another self-depreciating thing I have to get out of my head). You are correct, I do need to work on undoing the 20+ yrs conditioning I grew up with, but I'll get there eventually, Insha'Allah. Someone I know once said that my past experiences are a big reason for why I don't react like most people would to situations. This same person recently said that he felt I was being TOO patient, and he could never do it if he was me. I don't know if he was just being kind, or if there is any merit to that.

    And finally, I am soooo sorry that you feel I use you and this blog for entertainment. sad That would be among the most evil things a person could do — using other people's pain and heartfelt advice for personal enjoyment? I honestly do not see how anyone could derive entertainment out of this blog and the lives of the women who share their story. Please do not believe such a vile thing of me, because it's not true at all.

    I had wanted to reply to Laila, Gail and Lynnette as well, but I really need to sleep. It's 2:30am now, SO I will get back to it tomorrow. I hope I did not cause you any heartache Ana and I do apologize for all of my errors and poorly expressing what I want to say. I've been confused quite a bit (this is only month 4 for me) and so much is still riding on my choice to wait and see what will come my way. Still, I'm glad I am here with you all, because you've really helped build me up mentally with advice and critically looking at my choices. I don't know if I would have been able to keep it together (so far) otherwise. Well, I'll catch you gals later. Prayers for everyone big grin

  • Aishah2013

    November 22, 2013

    Salaams,Ana here we all are.Thank God for your blog.its like a little comfort to return to.surely not everyone understands what it is to go through some of these things.Spirited well everyone’s here for you.I think somethings things do get overwhelming sometimes.some days are bigger tests than others.Ana I liked the beat em up angry face.Kim yes you don’t need N problems again…my job is busy too.I have had to bring it home.hee hee on thenights hub is home I have to put it aside so I give him his attention.Last night I thought a back rub and when I hear snoring ill jump back on my work..but I fell asleep too…he seems more fatigued..needs coffee just to get moving to go towards Co this week.Keeping up with the young I guesshappy…catches up with you!

  • Kim

    November 22, 2013

    Asalaam Aleikum all,

    At last, on a computer! Life’s just totally getting away from me these days and I hate this out-of-control feeling. If it isn’t work it’s M demanding attention (though of course he will deny he does that) or a kid issue here and there. Then there are the fur babies. It’s always something.

    @Ana, I don’t think “N” and I are about to embark on another roller coaster ride. If I get so much as an inkling of that…okay, maybe more than an inkling but anyway, if that’s imminent, so is my departure from the entire thing. The “inkling” is there at times. Something is stirring in the weeds, for sure, but what it is remains to be seen. Nah, what it is, is N changing her phone number then calling M and from what he tells me, whining, complaining, and threatening him (and me) in turn. He never told me she called – I found that out on my own. And that pissed me off beyond belief. When I confronted him he first denied it, then admitted it, then tried to segue the conversation (which was over the phone while I was at work) into some madness about how I should go to Kashmir with my son ahead of him. YEAH RIGHT. He said I should do this so he can stay here and make more money because, whaddaya know, suddenly we’re short of funds over there! How convenient this all is, I say. And he says I’m being paranoid. Oh, sure – send the wife and kid halfway around the world so you can carry on…oh, excuse me…work and send money to us. Right.

    I KNEW something was up just before all this came to light a week ago. Because out of nowhere, he had the ringer on his phone set to “silent” which he hadn’t done since the old days when N blew up his phone on my days/nights. My son had forgotten his phone at his friends house the previous weekend so I had taken M’s phone and put it by my son’s pillow so I could call it in the morning after I left for work, to wake him for school without having to wake M in the process. So no I wasn’t snooping. But a day or so after that I had this urge I hadn’t had in forever to check his phone account online. Found an unfamiliar local number, used my desk phone and called it. I didn’t let it go to voicemail. An hour or so later my desk phone rang, and whaddaya know – N’s name pops up. THAT is when I got on my cell and confronted M.

    If he wants to take up with her again, I sure won’t stop him, but I won’t be around for it either. He’s doing the Kashmir backpedal once again, being evasive, outright lied and denied having spoken to her at all til I cornered him….yep…been there, done this, ain’t doing it again.

    So there are other things too…stuff that’s a tad too personal between he and I, but they are really critically important things that are creating one hell of a rift between us. I’m not quite ready to go there talking about those things here.

    I swear I’m following what’s going on with all you girls and I will comment, insha Allah, but I have to run as I have chicken frying and I don’t want to burn the house down. I’ll be back again soon, promise! Much love ladies ((((HUGS))))

  • ana

    November 22, 2013

    @Spirited, As Salaamu Alaikum happy

    Please forgive me if I’ve come across way harsh. I feel badly now. I just get a bit angry about your husband’s treatment of you, Fist shake and wish I could go beat him down. Of course, it’s wishful thinking. I’ve never had a physical fight in my life. It was just my imagination running away with me.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Spirited

    November 22, 2013

    Salaam everyone!

    I read your posts, Laila, Gail, Ana & Lynette, but I will have to answer when I get back home. Fridays have become nuts for me. Right now I’m in an exam prep class with 4 more hours to go, then a 2 hour drive back home.

    Well, see you later!

  • Lynnette

    November 22, 2013

    @ Sister Ana,

    We are kind of doing a case-study, I guess. I hope Sister Spirited realizes we mean her no harm. I doubt she is using us for her entertainment. To me, she seems as though she’s trapped in the Matrix. (Think of Plato’s Allegory of the Cave.) she tells us that she addresses her husband on the points we raise; she seems to be keeping track of his responses.

    A lot of high-achieving people fear failure, Sister. That’s a conversation for another day.

    And Sister Jenny is 100% right; that baby is co-wife’s security blanket. I would add that if she produced her Nikah to ICE (Immigration Control Enforcement), along with the revealed fact that she is now a “polygamous wife” … With just the right twist, that is a VAWA case. Sister Spirited, and her husband both might be in for quite a surprise.

  • ana

    November 22, 2013

    When I said the co is not doing anything wrong, she is not doing anything wrong because she is not Muslim. She does not have to adhere to the dictates of Islam (our way of life.)

    @Lynnette,

    Your post was very insightful. Thank you for expounding on your perception of things. I’m following you. You are correct;Spirited did mention she was having difficulty staying focused, and did indicate she stayed in bed most of the day, one day.She may be masking what she’s going through by putting on a facade. I feels like we doing a case study lol.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    November 22, 2013

    @Gail,

    I think you are on point about Spirited and her co. I doubt the co would readily give up the money she receives from him monthly, and return to Turkey. Jenny said the child is the co’s security blanket. Jenny would know better than me. Furthermore, the co is already talking about having another child. She knows how to play her hand right.

    The husband seems to be pacifying Spirited for the time being by telling her what she wants to hear. As someone else here said (I can’t remember who) one needs to look at a person’s actions, and not the words. Spirited’s husband’s actions are speaking louder than his words, which are saying he is all up into co.

    Nonetheless, Spirited said she’s got this. Her attitude is whatever will be will be. She’s a better person than me. I don’t roll with the punches that easily. I’m Johnny on the spot when it comes to investigating, asking questions and demanding answers – demanding my rights and my due; there is nothing un-Islamic about it. I hate being left in the dark. I refuse to knowingly let someone play me. I believe in having the upper hand.

    Only Allah knows what the outcome will be. Spirited should not think that just by being Muslim all will go in her favor. She has to do what is expected of her. She’s backing the play of someone who is not right (her husband). The co isn’t doing anything wrong.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in

  • Lynnette

    November 22, 2013

    As Salaamu Alaikum, and peace to all:

    Sister Ana,

    I picked Sister Spirited’s depression up from her representations about her lack of motivation and energy to attend to her studies, as well as from a few other statements she’s made along the way. Do I think she’s catatonic? Oh, heavens no. But any time someone portrays that kind of happiness, I start to study them very carefully. The veneer seems well-adhered, but a little bit thin. That’s why I’m worried about her, if truth be told.

    I admire her ability to be sweet in situations where I could not be; but, I remember 10 years ago, going through long periods of trying to be sweet and looking for the bright side while my frustrations built. I see her example of her uncle, the cardiologist, offering to support her through school, and her expressed need to pay him back, and I wonder several things — including whether she realizes that ultimately, it is Allah (swt) who is the giver of every good gift? This has at least two possible interpretations; one is pride or arrogance; another is a possible belief that the gift comes with “strings,” and a third is a feeling of being utterly unworthy of the gift. Some of the stubbornness that looks like pride can be a masked rigidity — the need to hold it all together in exactly one certain way, or it all comes apart. Rigidity is a hallmark of depression; stubbornness an earmark of arrogance. Both precede utter destruction; the believer, however, has the protection and security of knowing that it is Allah (swt)’s Master Plan that is prevailing.

    You all may notice that I keep asking her to search herself, and to identify and articulate to herself her motivations. Understanding motivation (intention) helps you to understand behavior. In acting courses, even, actors learn to identify motivation and how it impacts on human behavior. For us as Muslims, our intention connects us to Allah (swt) or separates us from Him. So much of human suffering seems to be caused by the disconnection between our human selves, and our LORD. May we all be blessed with iman!

    For example, Sister Ummof4 seems to have Peace; I capitalize it because it is the kind that only Allah (swt) can give. And she seems to have it, Alhamdulillah! You seem to be genuinely happy, as does Sister Gail….just to give a few examples. Sister Ummof4 actually inspired me to take a long look at how I approach my prayer-life, and I thank her and Allah (swt) for that blessing.

    Sisters, I may well be wrong; the good of my words is from Allah (swt), and the bad is purely my own, because surely, Allah (swt) knows best.

  • laila

    November 22, 2013

    Hello ladies! happy Hope everyone keeping well. Okay I think the last time I gave my two cents worth of input was about Spirited’s hubby splitting the income earned and that I highlighted that how he split it was lopsided. Ruqqya pointed out that a family having more children are entitled to more. I disagree…. Sorry. Yes Ruqqya has a valid point about one family then having to compromise their lifestyle and one probably has a better lifestyle all together. Yes point taken and noted. But…. from my situation and also taking into account how the Muslim families that practise polygamy in my neighbourhood versus the ones that aren’t so successful as a family, I am of the belief that a man must be fair in terms of monthly money distributed to both sides. [ It could be more ] In one of the cases that Ive seen, even in my own condo block for example, there was one family that was polygamous and he favoured his second wife more. Take note in this man only had one child / baby with his second wife and with his first he has three children. Because there was no proper discussion, the first wife always had to use her salary to run her household because what her husband gives her isn’t much to being with. In the end, the poor woman burnt out and was always bitter because she couldn’t buy what she wanted for herself. Her salary was always used for the family. I stress a lot on the man knowing how much to give each side because Ive seen firsthand on how sometimes men take total advantage. They want to have multiple wives / families but aren’t ready to work harder and take charge on the financial aspect of it. In my situation, my co-wife and I receive the same amount financially. She’s able to use hers because most of her loans from the banks are paid off. He gives her a credit card just for the use of the children just in case things arent enough. She also has a maid to run her show. I on the other hand dont want a credit card and a maid. I want to apply for my own card as I value my privacy. I wouldn’t be comfortable to allow my husband to scan and see what Ive purchased. Maid? No way! I like my privacy at home. I don’t want to be responsible for another individual.

    In the case of Spirited, when I saw that he gave his other wife 2000 out of his monthly income of 3000, I felt that what he was doing wasn’t right. Isn’t the other wife working? In my case,eventhough my husband gives my monthly allowances to pay off all the bills etc. I still use my own cash to buy groceries, pay for the repairs around the house, and home purchases. By Spirited staying at her parents home somehow I feel he’s got the better end of the deal. He’s saving so much by the both of them staying at her parent’s home. I would also like to add that it’s irresponsible too on his part. We can’t blame Spirited or say that she’s creating excuses. Im not covering up for her but in this case her husband has to have the maturity to understand that he’s got to provide for her. If he wants to take note that Muslim men can marry up to four then he must also do his part about getting a place to stay and do his part as a husband. Spirited if you’re reading this, I want you to know that going to Medical school or not, he’s got to provide a place to stay. He’s also got to upgrade you both financially. How long do you plan to live on a 1000 income? I used to live on a 1000 income at some point of my life. Guess what? It’s not sufficient. I used to get so grumpy and agitated. Ive taken charge of my life in terms of the financial aspect and I must say Ive yet to reach my destination of success yet but….Im adamant to be someone in my life!

    This motto is on my fridge and I read it everyday.

    “If you change NOTHING,
    NOTHING will CHANGE”.

    “Don’t hold onto thoughts that don’t allow your mind to move forward”.

    If you have to tell him off then you have to do so. It’s not pretty I know. But then again, If you don’t face reality in some ways I feel he will never change and will always use you. He’s got to work harder, tough shit. Life’s a b&*%$ at times and he’s got to man up and face that. You may not be ready for the facing him part right now in your life. But trust me, If you don’t take charge, he will never respect you, and he will never take time to see what’s wrong. That’s the nature of men, sorry. Ive been quiet for a few days, because Ive been reading a book entitled, “Why Men Love Bitches”. it was such an eye opener for me! In some chapters the writer pointed out that when we are too obliged or when we are too compromising, men will never respect us and will walk all over us. I agree! We don’t have to be rude, but sometimes a bit of firmness does the trick. Firm and not letting go of your ground.

    Spirited, my marriage life isn’t so fantastic too. Just a few days back we had another argument. My husband hid some things from me and I found out by pure luck. The BMW parked in my home used to be driven by my co-wife. He never told me that. I flipped. Reason? The community I live in love to gossip about anyone leading a polygamous lifestyle. They know what she drives and what I drive. To see me driving what she used to drive shows that I love the toys used and thrown by my co-wife. After reading that book, I told myself this idiotic, stupid behaviour of him keeping mum on matters that matter to me must stop. In short, I told him Im never driving that car again, and Im not getting into any of his cars too. I know I sound drastic and loony. But hey Im already sharing a man, I dont need to share a car! He flipped too. But after I was firm and never let myself be shaken he got the message and today he actually apologized. Ha! What a miracle…. It rained heavily today.

    I want you to know that you’re not a hopeless case.You just have to lay your rules down and be firm. Why should you help him out when he skypes? So what if he’s got a child with her? My husband has two children from my co-wife. But with a fixed schedule, things are by far more organized and harmonious now. Your self worth is priceless. Don’t allow this man to make you feel like a door mat, always available, waiting and ready to be taken for granted. Hope things change for you, and I pray that you find the strenght to face him and tell him that the nonsence has to stop! The problem is if you’re on your own, single and If you made some real stupid decisions, yes you can laugh about it and say, “hmmmm was real dumb back then”. The thing about being married is, his decision making does affect you. I know that when my husband kept mum, and finally let some secrets out I felt like boxing him. It does affect us. We are women, we are emotional creatures. Yes we can be succesful at things if we put our minds to it. But a man needs to realize that he’s not sailing on a one man ship, there are also crew on board. When the captain makes dumb decisions, it affects the whole crew. Hence the whole journey ro a particular destination, if full of bitching and fighting and throwing words and statements at each other and causing more hatred and mean spirited attitude to take place. What’s our destination? Heaven right? … To be better Muslims…. To run successsful families…. To spread positivity…. and to educate ourselves further abot our creator Allah s.w.t…… happy Can we do that when the Captain himself is lost at sea?

    Another part about his sprirituality. I used to be just like you. I used to remind my husband to go slow on alcohol. I used to get so pissed off when I saw that when the time of prayer came, he still watched his tv…. Till one day my aunt whom Ive mentioned here many times sat me down and gave me a long lecture. She told me that I am not responsible for my husbands spirituality. It’s between him and Allah s.w.t. If he does pray, which out of me reminding him, wouldn’t he be doing it so that I would stop nagging at him? Then the prayer in itself wouldn’t be sincere because he was reminded repeatedly. Everyone touches their spirituality awareness at different stages and ages. We cannot be the judge / mother / religious teacher / authoritative figure onto them. They have to want to pray. They have to want to observe what’s halal and haram. They would want to willingly change and alter their lives for the better. Im slowly altering mine. I no longer touch on his drinking. Im happy to say that now Im praying more, and he sees that. It makes him a bit uncomfortable. But he may choose to lay his lazy self and watch tv when the azan is read. I won’t because that’s my choice, because I want to change my life, for the better. happy
    Stop thinking that you’re responsible for your husband’s direction in life in terms of spirituality. He’s got to change, because he want’s to and he want’s to be a better Muslim.

    Salam.

  • Laila

    November 22, 2013

    Hey girls! Missed you all so much! Will type / reply after my Zohor prayers winking

  • Spirited

    November 22, 2013

    Salaam everyone!

    Decided to check in before I went to sleep (up late with everyone, talking to cousin).

    @Ana, thank you for your input! I’d like to sleep on what you’ve said, and I’ll get back to you tomorrow happy And also everyone else!

    Goodnight all <3

  • Gail

    November 21, 2013

    Ana,
    I think so many times woman confuse being patient with being a doormat.You can be patient without being a doormat.I don’t really think Spirited has figured out the difference yet.

  • Gail

    November 21, 2013

    Spirited,
    I would suggest you to search your heart and really look into the future and ask yourself What IF all this waiting around and he again does this to u with another woman in the future.Obviously u can not predict the future but u can see a persons actions and pretty much figure out what kind of person they are.For your sake I hope I am wrong and he does not do anything wrong but I have heard that if you want to know what to predict a persons future behavior all u have to do is look at their past.Are u so in love with this guy that you are willing to always play the role as doormat because make no mistake about it at this point u are very acting like a doormat.Is it going to be worth for?Only u have the know the answer to that question.

  • Gail

    November 21, 2013

    Ana,
    I agree with you that I don’t see Spirited as depressed at all.She might feel frustrated at times because things are not going as she has expected bu depressed at this point no.
    If the truth be told I think Spirited honestly believes her husband will pick her in the end simply because she has his family support back home maybe that and a mixture of her buying her husband bullcrap.Whatever it is she honestly believes in her heart that at the end of the day she will come out the winner in this situation and she has some drive in her to try to make pretty certain this happens is my guess.
    My excowife also thought she had it all figured out and she sat in Pakistan waiting and watching and plotting and planning but at the end of the day hubby got rid of her.This is the same thing I am seeing in Spirited through some of her comments towards her cowife.I don’t think I have heard Spirited one time say she wish her cowife would not go back to Turkey but instead she has talked about how her husband would raise the child Muslim or something like he could get that child.From my personal experience it is a type of plotting and planning mixed with ALOT of wishful thinking and who knows what the end result will be.I will say this I think her husband is a CLASS A PLAYER and I think he will get bored later on and want more woman.I am afraid in Spirited case since she admits her husband is not very religious and kinda atheist in his thinking I think she mentioned that obviously and I mean obviously it stands to reason Spirited will be dealing with more woman in the future.If he is not religious then what is to stop him from having sexual affairs with different woman.I don’;t know but this is my thinking.

  • ana

    November 21, 2013

    @Lynnette,

    Lynnette, you said you think Spirited is “depressed”. If she is depressed, I could understand why. I don’t, however, know if she really is. She goes about her normal activities. She’s here on the blog with jolly faces. She communicates as though she is coping with life just fine. I have never known anyone to be able to fake that they are NOT depressed. I’m not an expert on the disease. I have been there with it. I was depressed for a while after Alex became polygamous i dont know

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    November 21, 2013

    @Aishah,

    It is good to hear things seem to be getting better for you. happy

    @Spirited,

    I can’t put my finger on what is with you. I think you come across a bit “arrogant” because what one hears from you is that: 1) you don’t need anything 2) you don’t want anything and 3) you have all the answers. For instance, your uncle believes in you. He is willing to pay for you to attend medical school, as it is something he wants to do for you, and can afford to do. Yet, you can’t accept the gift from your uncle without saying you will repay him. Furthermore, you speak as though you know for certain you will enter Paradise.You speak of how your husband needs you and you need nearly nothing from him or from anyone else for that matter. We know only Allah is ONE. Allah is the only ONE who doesn’t need anything. He needs no help.

    I can’t recall everything you’ve said but, from what I can recall of what you’ve said, I’m confused. You stated you don’t want your husband with you, if he doesn’t want to be with you; yet, you’re willing to remain married to him. You accept that he mistreats you, which I can’t understand why you think it’s okay for him to do so? Just because he doesn’t slap you upside the head and beat you does not mean he is not mistreating you.

    Allah says men are the maintainer and protector of women, yet you don’t hold your husband to it with regards to you. He moved you home, as he said he couldn’t afford to go to school, work, and support you, and tells you to hold off from having a child. Then he goes off, meets someone else, marries her, have a child with her, and give her most of his money. He gives you a disease. He hides you. He spends very little time with you. Despite all of this, you make excuses for him, and are accepting of his treatment of you.

    You say Allah will deal with him and he will have to account to Allah for his ill treatment of you. Your husband will have to account to Allah for rejecting Allah, and for refusing to obey Him. It is way bigger than your husband having mistreated you. You have to look at the bigger picture. Allah created us to serve and worship Him, which your husband (along with many people) apparently is doing a poor job of.

    You apparently don’t look at the position you have placed your parents in. They have to sit back and watch what is going on between you and your husband with very little they can do about it. There is only so much they can do when you refuse to take the bull by the horn. You won’t confront the problem and deal with it head on. At first, I thought something was wrong with your parents. I don’t think that way anymore.

    You said you are unattractive and you had no friends until you entered college, if I’m not mistaken. I know what ugly is and I know you are far, far, far away from ugly. I saw your pics and I think you are very pretty. So where you got that one from, I don’t know. You’re articulate and you a warm and charming person. I am beginning to wonder whether you need to have your head examined.

    You say you want to hear what we have to say, as you listen. I am, however, beginning to think you want us here for your entertainment Munching

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Aishah2013

    November 21, 2013

    Salaams.spirit things are a little better now. he seems to be trying harder with sticking to schedule, observing rights me and kids, doesn’t seem as many texts/ calls during our time.and I have my separate account so that was good.don’t know if he spoke with her about imams recommendations, but I see a little change,so hope so.everyone needs to respect each others rights.at least he is well aware I will stand up for my rights.so inshaallah positive change may occur…its just been a few days..

  • ana

    November 21, 2013

    As Salaamu Alaikkum & Peace to Everyone

    @Lynnette,

    Insha Allah, you will have a better day tomorrow. It’s been a weird day for a lot of us. My wali/bestess said he wasn’t feeling well. Initially, when I started out today I was energized, but then began to feel not that well. In fact, I went to lay down for a while, but read the comments here, and got up to write a little. I intended to wash my hair, which is always an ordeal, and then do a workout, but the way I feel now, it ain’t about to happen. Insha Allah, tomorrow will be a better day for all of us.

    @Spirited,

    I haven’t had salad with shrimp in it, only because I don’t like shrimp. All I need to do is put some raisins and cranberries in my chicken, Caesar salad, which already comes with the sour cream sauce, and I’ll have tried your recipe. I’ve seen the egg pizza that you spoke of. I go to the city that has a large Turkish community and get most of my halal meats there. It must be a Turkish thing. I got some take out from one of the stores there and I saw in the window a pic of the pizza with the egg on it. I thought, boy, is that weird. I had never seen or heard of such a thing surprise Insha Allah, I’m going to try it one day, though.

    Spirited, I want to comment more about you and your situation, but I’m going to go climb back into the bed for now and relax, Insha Allah; I’ll be back sooner or later laughing

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Spirited

    November 21, 2013

    Salaam all~

    Hope everyone’s day went well. It was kind of slow today, I’ve been sleepy all day for some reason laughing Like Ana said, its quiet here on the blog too. (lol @ “quite quiet” people often get the two wrong!)

    @Aishah, how are things going with you now? Moving along nicely?
    Hmm, I don’t know the specifics of how my husband is breaking down the money he allocates for his other family yet. He told me the cord bank is $400/mo. Other than that, I’m assuming she buys diamond-studded diapers laughing Please note that I am not defending him or arguing. Just stating what he’s told me.

    @Ana, lol well I said the way I write out the facts that I know might come off as arrogant. I know arrogance and plenty of arrogant people who believe they are above everyone else, but I’ve never been called arrogant by anyone in my daily life. =O Argumentative sometimes, but that seems opposite to what the ladies say here (that I don’t stand up for myself) laughing

    I sincerely hope you won’t encounter any drama on Thanksgiving Day this year and can enjoy a nice holiday happy That salad sounds fun! Have you had salads with shrimp in them? That sounds interesting to me. Also, if you ever find it, I would highly suggest a salad with sour cream, chicken, raisins, & cranberry, eaten with toasted garlic bread. I don’t remember what its called, but we make it for family parties occassionally and it’s always so tasty.

    Also food related, I’m not sure if its Afghani or Turkish (it’s been a while) but there’s a pizza that is made with an egg cracked onto it after the pizza is either almost done or it is done and the egg cooks by the pizza’s heat. It looks weird when you see it, but man is it tasty. big grin

    Alright well, I have to run and do salat. Talk to you guys later!

  • Lynnette

    November 21, 2013

    As Salaamu Alaikum, and Peace to all,

    Talked out? Not quite, Sister Ana. Exhausted? Oh, most definitely.

    I have a transcriptionist I hire on a project basis who was utterly unable to take on this project. That has proven bad for me, because I don’t transcribe, and I don’t have the equipment for it. So, here I am, many hours later, doing what would have required 1/3 the time if the right person was available for the job. Sometimes, I wish that my clients would — listen. MashAllah, I was able to get enough done, 30 pages later, to meet the minimum threshold.

    In Shaa Allah, all will be well.

    I see Sister Spirited’s thinking at work. Sister Ana, there is a point where having one’s thoughts bent on one particular course of action — when all the evidence demonstrates that course of action is not likely to prove successful — as a form of vanity or arrogance. Sometimes, people choose a to ignore the obvious when the obvious is incredibly inconvenient. But here? This “December” thing is a farce. Something else — I don’t quite know what — will come up. I can’t fault the young lady for pressing the “pause” button; I can and do urge her to tell herself the TRUTH.

    Sister Ana, it’s quite possible that Sister Spirited has been “gas-lighted” a bit. When a person (usually a woman) has been manipulated so long by another (often a man), and accused of being insane…or having insane thought processes….after a while, the target can be expected to have difficulty with reality testing. She is seriously depressed; depression is at the end if a long wand steady exposure to gas-lighting. In Shaa Allah, she will open her eyes and at least think it through for herself. There are du’as for clarity of thought and peace of mind. Allah (swt) will clear the fog for you, if you ask.

    All I ask is that Sister Spirited — and for that matter, all of us –be mindful not to cooperate with Shaitan in deceiving ourselves.

    Salaam…

  • ana

    November 21, 2013

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Peace to All,

    It’s quite quiet today. Everyone must be all talked out again.

    Everything on my end is status quo. Alex stays true to the schedule. I thank Allah swt for allowing me not to be Alex’s ball and chain ball and chain. I don’t keep a tight reign on him. I know where ever Alex is and whatever he is doing, it what Allah has decided. Alex is very good. He and I have our world separate from his other life. He never mentions her and neither do I. He always appear quite happy and content. He’s seems to be at peace.

    The schedule AGAIN falls where in Alex will come to my home on Thanksgiving day to begin our three nights. Although, we don’t celebrate, my wali/bestess’ wife helps her mom cook; therefore she cooks for her own family, as well. His wife always prepares a very, very nice meal for Alex and me, too. So, it’s something nice I’m looking forward to.

    I think “C” has enough brains in her head to know not to nasty text me like she did last year Thanksgiving. We live and we learn it. Insha Allah, she learned something. Last year she tried to delay him getting to me to by wanting to discuss Islam when he was preparing to leave. Alex didn’t even realize her ploy, and went with it. Allah sees and know all thing. How foolish to think one can play with Allah.

    I better go now. I’m going to run out, get some coffee, and do some things, Insha Allah. Insha Allah, I’m going to get a humongous chicken (halal) ceasar salad. The salad is loaded with chicken This Afghan place (halal) not very far from me make the best food. I mean the very best – gyros and all kinds of delicious mouth watering cuisine.

    I’ll share one of my favorite saying:

    An ignorant friend is worse than an intelligent enemy.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Aishah2013

    November 21, 2013

    salaams.spirit hi.I think you mentioned the cord banking cost with the baby.if you didn’t forgive me.its not hugely expensive or was not some years back.costs were $350 when the baby was born (prepaid!)for collecting the cord,that was doctor cost as I remember, and they have payment plans.it cost maybe $125 a month first year of storage, and after that it now costs $125 for the year, for up to 20 years of storage….if his 2 nd is not working there is not a child care cost.diapers, baby stuff yeah costs a bit,not tremendous.and maybe she / they have financial aid/ help to cover cost of formula and baby food.same for medical care.if she has Medicaid her and baby no worries….so ..and not paying apartment costs if lives w parents…just a thought.

  • ana

    November 20, 2013

    @Spirited,

    It is funny that you said you are “arrogant”. I was having a discussion with my Wali/bestess today,and was telling him about you and some of our conversations. He said,”She is arrogant.” Now,that is a coincidence laughing

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    November 20, 2013

    Spirited, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    I only read your short post for now. I was just getting ready to do a workout (exercise) and thought to check for comments to approve first. Insha Allah, I’ll read your longer post after I finish, otherwise I may get side tracked and not get to what I really need to do.

    I heard the arguing with idiots on a business conference call that I was on last night. I thought it was very profound and totally funny. I can’t forget it. I shared it with my wali/bestess and text it to Alex and my younger sister. When I got home, I thought it would be funny to put on the blog, as well. I love it laughing

    About the interview, I completed it last night and emailed it to her. She was so happy and pleased with the answers. I don’t think I should post it, as I didn’t ask her about it and she put a clause in there that it would be kept confidential and wouldn’t release it to any media etc. So, I think it should go both ways. The questions were very basic (what religion I am; what family and friends think of me and it; how’s the relationship with co-wife; how does it effect children etc) and everyone here pretty much know all the answers. I think she’s going to ace it. She sound to be a very intelligent girl. She has to turn it in on Friday.

    I better get going. Insha Allah, chat with you later. You’ll probably be sleep by then LOL.

    @Gail,

    The words of wisdom were crazy funny to me. It’s the best one I’ve heard yet. Chat with you a bit later, Insha Allah.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Gail

    November 20, 2013

    Ana,
    I needed to here your words of wisdom today.That was perfect timing.

    Spirited.
    I am curious if your second goes back to Turkey will he still give her 2,000 per month or will that be finished?I am asking because logically speaking I can’t imagine her leaving her monthly income.Nope I don’t buy what he is selling sorry.Nothing makes any logical sense think about it.She did come here from Turkey for some reason and she is not working i assume and collecting 2,000 per month and your telling me that she would rather go back to Turkey and chance getting her money cut off?Unless her family is wealthy enough to allow her to leave him then I think u better see through the obvious smoke screen.For her to loose her 2,000 per knowing she will get more in the long run after he is out of school Are you following me here.

  • Spirited

    November 20, 2013

    whoops, I meant to also ask,

    Ana, you’ve got me curious now, what happened that resulted in your post about not arguing with idiots? big grin It seems like it would be a fun story!

    Also, did you have that student interview? If so, how did it go? I wonder what kind of questions the student had!

  • Spirited

    November 20, 2013

    Salaam everyone~

    @Ana, I wanted to say that its not that I have made up my mind and have excuses at the ready, but that I reply with what I’m thinking so I can get the input to my thought process and suggestions from people who are more experienced. I always appreciate your honesty and critical analysis. Its true that many times, people would not like to hear what they NEED to hear, but that’s not the way I think. I would rather have a straight, no-beating-around-the-bush nonsense conversation, especially about important things.

    Its kind of like “ok, so you’re saying this-and-that. I’m thinking this-and-that in reply to your points. What do you think?” and then based on what I get in response, I can judge if I’m handling the situation well or need to work on myself or the situation I presented. Maybe I’m just not very good at making that clear laughing My mom says I’m fighting with her when I try to get her input about things as well, lol. Surely if more people see it that way, then I need to work on how I present my thoughts so it doesn’t seem so arrogant. Thanks also for clarifying where you see me doing things wrong, I’ll work on it for sure!

    In other news, my cousin — the one I picked up from the army base a few weeks back — had been visiting some cousins of his in New Orleans and will be returning tomorrow. He asked me to pick him up and will be staying with us here for a few weeks because he still hasn’t got a place to live . He had applied to a few “for rent” ads, but has not been able to get anything finalized yet. The guest room here is free, so there’s no problem. It’ll be good to have company around! big grin We’re also planning to go watch the new Hunger Games movie, probably next week because Friday is too busy for me and a cousin who wants to go with us can’t do weekends. Should be fun happy

    Well, going to give my dad some dinner. Goodnight to you all! <3

  • ana

    November 20, 2013

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Peace to All,

    Words of Wisdom for today:

    Don’t argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level and beat you to death with their experience laughing

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    November 20, 2013

    I’m typing on my phone in a hurry.

    @Spirited,

    It is not that I have given up on you or think that you are a hopeless case. It is simply that I think you have excuses already prepared before you hear what anyone has to say. You have your mind made up about how you are going to conduct your life and what you are going to except and tolerate from your husband.

    I think with you it’s not really about Allah and accepting His decisions. It is more about your personality and disposition. You are the type of woman who just let things happen, and don’t want to be assertive in demanding right,just, and fair treatment.

    Your husband has done exactly what he wants knowing that you will not object and you will be there for him. To allow him to give $2000 of his $3000 to her, and you not object is ludicrous. There’s no reason he cannot give you $1000 and give her 1000.00. It does not matter that she has a child. She does not deserve more. Just because of her children. She needs to learn how to make that thousands dollars work for her and her child.There is no reason you should not stand up for yourself. For instance, if he and she are on skype or whatever and you are there there’s no need for you to hide yourself or what is going on in your relationship. there should be no need for you to hide and lie, so that she won’t know the truth. No one is asking you to leave your husband. We’re just asking you to stand up for what is right and your due. It is what is expected of you in Islam.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Lynnette

    November 20, 2013

    @Sister Ruquyya,

    You are exactly right! I am not the gate to heaven or hell for anyone. Allah (swt) will be the Finder of Fact on the Last Day, not me…

  • Spirited

    November 20, 2013

    Oh goodness, quick corrections–

    My husband is panicked over the condition of his liver (not lover). And Surah An-Nisa (not Sarah). laughing auto-corrects. That is something else I don’t need to worry about on the computer, lol

    Alright, breakfast time, talk to you wonderful ladies later!

  • Spirited

    November 20, 2013

    Salaam everyone big grin

    How are you this Wednesday? (If it’s Wednesday where you are)

    Lol its too bad we can’t edit our posts! I just knew you guys would pick up on how I had written about my concern for my husband’s imaan laughing I didn’t mean to come off sounding like it did, to me its just a matter of common decency. Would you leave someone who couldn’t swim to drown just because he was in that position? Would you say its God’s will, so leave him be?

    It’s just a matter of morals to want to help people, especially the ones near to the heart. Even if all I can do is just constantly remind him, it’s something. It’s up to him to act on it. I have no delusions about being a savior, I can only do what is in my meager power and pray for the rest. But I also know that IF he were to ever leave Islam, God forbid, our marriage would be nullified. I need to be aware of his status so I don’t end up staying with a non-believer & sinning. There are many “excuses” to keep any relationship active, it’s never just one reason to have someone in your life–or am I wrong?

    So far, my husband hasn’t been doing a very good job of following Islamic guidelines for polygamy, and is it really a surprise when you consider how weak his imaan is? He’s one of to many Muslims who covet this world and don’t give much thought to the hereafter. You know what the moron says? He says see how much a mother loves and protects her children–Allah loves all his humans even more, so no matter what, He will forgive you. <–I would love to find whichever "scholar" spewed this idiocy and have him flogged. You can't just forget Allah and expect that kind of mercy. I wouldn't be surprised if this nonsense came from his non-believing 2nd.

    Part of marriage is for spouses to strengthen each others Deen. That is all I intended to do. My husband is not physically violent, he has never stolen my money, but he is being a massive idiot in terms of his responsibilities — there's no doubt about that. I want to see if anything changes in the coming month and take it from there. I actually brought up some of the concerns you ladies pointed out yesterday to him in a text, he said he'll answer when he comes next. I think he also has his lover's condition weighing on his mind. He got the tests done yesterday, but has to wait for results. Waiting is always the hardest.

    I'm replying from my phone, so I apologize for not taking the time to respond individually to you, Gail, Ana & Ruqqaya. If there's something I missed or remember to add, I'll do it from my computer later in the day, because it's much easier to have comments open on the side while replying!

    Also, Ana, I just wanted to say that it doesn't seem like you're saying what is on your mind. You and Ummof4 are two of the biggest people here who always back up what they say with Quranic evidence, so your input is always valuable. It also sounds like you're giving up and considering me to be a hopeless case. I apologize if it seems like I am hopeless,, but I personally don't want to give up and run out of this marriage for trivial things (or things that seem trivial to me).

    Gail, thank you again for keeping an eye out for me. I'm going to be assertive and demand to know how he intends to be just with time & money going forward, but of course if his 2nd wife leaves like he suspects she will, there won't be much of an issue. I wanted to wait and see what she will do, but I might bring it up when he talks about the points I texted him over that you and Lynnette made.

    Ruqqaya, again, you are very lucky that your husband is mindful of Allah and actually considers everything a man should consider before jumping into polygamy with his pants down. Allah even warns men that they'll never be able to be actually fair to multiple wives (time, money, love, etc) and is best to keep only one if they fear their Lord (Sarah Nisa). It seems to me that Muslims who were guided to Islam and chose it are MUCH more mindful of Allah and the Quranic and following it as best as possible (Mash'Allah) than those who have grown up with it (shamefully).

    Well, I'll check in later. Remember ladies, we're all helping each other and whenever you see that I need a kick in the pants, don't hesitate to shine your shoes and do so! Nothing anyone says or suggests will hurt me, it can only help. happy

  • Ruqayya

    November 20, 2013

    @Spirited Gail said the truth. I myself am my husbands only Muslim family member. Now mashaAllah he has a lot of knowledge abd wisdom of the deen but there is much he doesn’t know (and I don’t know.. we are both young but we act upon what we do know) anyways I try to help and support him when I can. I know it must be hard for a revert with only his wife for suppirt BUT I am not responsible for him and his commitment to Allah swt only my husband is. I will support him in following islam to the ends of the earth but not at the expense of being mistreated myself. I pray for my husbands continued guidance and I pray he is granted jannah but if, and I hope it doesn’t hapoen, I were in your shoes I wouldn’t hesitate leaving simply due to the fear he would apostate, other things may keep me in the marriage so I wont say I’d leave for sure… but he is his own person. If my presence is all that kept him a muslim then maybe he was never really a true believer in the first place?

  • ana

    November 20, 2013

    It also mean if we don’t learn life’s lessons, we suffer hardship.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    November 20, 2013

    I often tell my husband what my grandma used to tell me when she was alive – “A hard head makes a soft @$$.” It meant to me that if I couldn’t listen, I was going to get a beating that was going to HURT. (The hind side is tender).

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    November 20, 2013

    @Gail,

    You took the words right out of my mouth; although, I wasn’t going to bother to say it to Spirited. What you said to Spirited is absolutely correct. Allah does not need anyone to help Him guide someone. Allah does not need any help whatsoever. He needs no help at all. He determines who He will guide and who will He will leave a stray. We make a mistake when we think we have the power to guide someone. Allah tells us to save OURSELVES first and then our family from the Fire.

    Spirited does have more need to be concerned about her own soul rather than her husband’s. He is where Allah has placed him. My husband is where Allah has placed him. We can only let our husbands see us doing what is right, which includes standing up for truth and justice. We err when we think we can do what we can’t. You said it all way better than I ever could.

    Sometimes people have to learn the hard way. If Spirited has a need to make excuses for herself and her husband, we have to leave her be. Allah guides whom He will and He only guides those who seek His guidance.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come in.

  • Gail

    November 19, 2013

    Spirited,

    I happy you joined the blog and you are really thinking about everything we are telling you thats enough for me.All we can do is give each other our opinions and let the chips fall where they may.Please focus on school now and get your education.I really hope in the future you will learn not to let people cross the line and take advantage of your sweet nature not even your husband.
    It took watching my husband and cowife with my own eyes and listening to what they did with me out of their own mouth to make me understand my self worth and if I was not going to stand up and demand respect then I could forget them giving it.I felt led to tell you because I see myself in you.Looking back now I am shocked that I could have let my husband twist everything to manipulate me into doing his will basically.You won’t be young forever and if he does in the end do wrong with you I worry you will become bitter towards him and life in general.
    Now granted I am not Muslim but the last time I checked you can’t save another persons soul.Your husband did not need you to be created.You can’t save anyone and I would even challenge you that instead of you bringing his faith up he may very well disturb yours in the long run.So please becareful thinking your husband needs you to be saved from anything much less hell fire.You have enough on your plate worrying about your own soul.Do not make yourself into a Savior is my advice.So many wives do this and it is such a waste of time if u ask me because you can;t save someone who doesn’t want to be saved.

  • Ruqayya

    November 19, 2013

    @Ana, of course but alhamdulilah my husband is not one to just brush everything off as jealousy. Everything I say does get thought about and considered as to its truth or not which I am really grateful for. I understand that he may have the desire and he may make mistakes as he is only human, but I’m so soo happy that he considers the outcomes of his actions and how it will affect me and our future kidsafter all whats the point of having many wives and kids and no money or time for them? Quality not quantity is best

  • ana

    November 19, 2013

    @Rugayya,

    I certainly can understand your reluctance to your husband taking another wife, while you and he live in your parent’s home. I wonder how some of these men think at times. It’s not a dating game they should be playing. Common sense says a man sets his family up in their home and pay the expenses. Then and only then he considers another family. It’s bizarre, to say the least.

    Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said truly my people have taken this Quran to be just foolish nonsense. Muslims have made a joke out of Islam. Oh, say you’re Muslim; get yourself a couple wives or so and try to enjoy yourself – NOT!!!!

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ruqayya

    November 19, 2013

    $1, 000 per week maybe would be a bit more believable lol

  • Ruqayya

    November 19, 2013

    @Spirited.
    I Too am living with my parents until my husband can support us properly. I honestly believe we made the correct choice at the time as marriage is a protection against zina and my parents agreeed he was a good brother for me. They adore him. But I couldn’t stand by and allw him to rack up multiple marrriages with each wife living in her parents house. Since I’ve been married I’ve been the most stressed, anxious and depressed I have ever felt I my entire life and I know oart of it is trying to be a wofe while I’m still living as a daughter. It’s not fair and it is nit correct and I will never ever suppirt my husband marrying again especially if he cannot support co because we wkmen DESERVE our rights. The same men that want to bend the rules in terms of maintenance are the exact same ones who will go screaming kafir the second you say maybe polygyny isn’t good in such circumstances, they are all about self. Polygyny is not meant to be for men to get their rocks off with women who are deprived of everything. Its suppised to offer financial freedom, love, support and children where the women would not have gotten these thing had they not been married. It has the incentive for men of extra sex BUT they need to take on the responsibility.

    Also @Laila, a man should not split his monry 50/50 when kids are involved. Say wife 1 had 10 kids and wife two was childless they both recieved $1, 000 per month. Wife one has 12 mouths to feed and wife 2 just has her and her husband they would be living extremely different life styles. It is not equitable which is what islan tries to bring. He should split his miney according to need to keep each family in a similar standard of living to one another. Not so one family is living in luxury and the other is in poverty. The only time the standards of living could be raised in one family is whe one wife uses her own monies to add to what he gives her.. but this does not mean he can take money from her to give to the other because her money is her own. Allowences are a different story as this is nit for hohsehold expenses but is actually given to be the womans own money. In this case each wife should get the same amount as it is solely for her use and not for her children or household.

  • ana

    November 19, 2013

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Peace to Everyone!

    Laila and Spirited,

    I thank you both for your advice about a computer replacement. With all the various computers to choose from, it becomes overwhelming. I check the reviews on line, plus I have “Consumers Report”. Online, some people say they love an item and another say they hate it. i dont know Anyhow, I went to one of Jenny and my favorite places – “COSTCO” to get a “Toshiba” laptop, which looks to be good, but they said I have to order it online. I had a Toshiba before I bought this HP, which is about to die. Some may remember me saying I spilled water on the last “Toshiba” that I had. I really liked the Toshiba and my wali/bestess has one, as well, which he likes. So, I’ll go and order it now online, Insha Allah.

    It’s been a long day. Insha Allah, I’ll return sooner than later.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Spirited

    November 19, 2013

    Salaam everyone~

    Hopefully everyone is having a good day today happy This week kind of seems fast, I keep thinking its Monday today.

    @Ana, it sucks when technology you need starts dying. If you are going to buy a new one,, for reliable laptop brands, Vaio used to be good, but I don’t know about now (Laila is warning you away from it, so she might have recent experience). Lenovo is very reliable — as far as I have experienced it. Asus is also a great brand. I’ve heard Apple’s mac laptops are always good, but I wouldn’t recommend it due to mac OS and it being overpriced. Good luck in choosing a replacement, and hopefully it lasts a long time big grin

    @Gail, lol! I guess I would act like that since I’ve grown up around paki women. I don’t see why I would have to be ashamed about where we are living, HE is the one who should be (or should I say where *I* am living, since he’s barely ever around anyway). I don’t know what my parents feel, but they take every opportunity to harass him, that’s for sure laughing.

    I’ve heard that joke, Gail, big grin On the bright side, at least the guy got to Heaven right? winking That’s what matters in the end, lol. But seriously speaking, what more could my husband possibly do to me? I’ve got my own money, and access to his. I can easily take care of myself, whereas he often asks me to help him with many things. My uncle (a cardiologist) is going to fund my medical education (out of his own pocket & interest free of course and I am going to pay him back, although he says he doesn’t want me to). The only thing left would be to murder me, which is quite honestly a ridiculous idea — but hey if someone thinks that’s a possibility, then your concerns are noted, but as humans — as muslims — we should be ready for death at any moment anyway.

    So long as his actions reflect good intentions and he follows through with his promises & as long as we love each other, I don’t really see the harm with giving him leeway for the time being. I don’t see the point in tightening a noose when someone is trying to get through a difficult time in life. Even if he and his 2nd wife are taking advantage of my nature, let them. Money is something that’s transitory, I’m not going to take it with me to my grave. His 2nd wife can go ahead if that’s what she’s trying to do, but it’s not going to do her, or him any good when they’re standing infront of God and have to answer for their unfair treatment.

    @Laila, that’s exactly what I’ve been saying — that when we got married, it was HIS responsibility to provide. Instead, he would always say that I should be using MY money to run our home until he was done with his education, because I’m American and that somehow means that I should behave “in a modern way and have a modern mentality.” I told you before that his Imaan is quite weak, and I had been working on strengthening it until he met his atheist “-itch”.

    Don’t worry, you don’t sound rude or mean. I can clearly see you, Gail, Ana, Lynnette and everyone else are worried, but it’s only month 4 into this mess for me, and I’m not a person who is going to give up on someone I love. I’m 99% positive that if I divorce him, he’s going to end up roasting in the after-life with his 2nd wife because she’s going to pull him away from his religion. I won’t let someone I care about go through that just to make some stupid worldly point over money or for revenge or to stop him from taking advantage of me (if he even is). Thank you for your deep concern big grin

    @Lynnette, you really have looked at my mentality thoroughly! I’m impressed! lol. A few counterpoints I wanted to throw out there, MCAT prep is definitely a big issue — I have little to no trouble with verbal and bio. orgo is ok. the big issues I have is physics and chem (anything with math). What really steams me is how none of this will be even needed in med school or after (unless for some unexplained reason, I ever wanted to do research — no way laughing ). Also, the very idea of him being confused about my intentions, the wait-and-see, or future plans is laughable. I’ve made it 200% percent clear over these last 3 months. Plus, I’ve got our conversations backed up, so he can’t even TRY to deny that he was in the dark!

    laughing at the “shovel and wet suit” ! Let’s hope it won’t come to that, lol. As for his career, I don’t care. Once he does start making a decent paycheck, I will for sure be getting my share and if not, you can bet he’s going to get what’s coming to him. And, Insha’Allah, I will have my backup plan well underway by then(med school!).

    Laila mentioned it too, but I’m not trying to punish anyone or myself. happy If things don’t follow what he promised, I’m not going to torture myself. The first test of this is coming up in December, so let’s sit back and watch the show. BTW, his 2nd wife also lives with her parents. laughing

    Like you said, I’m waiting to see if his actions match his words. How you talked about the insurance was so cute, it really made me smile! I also wanted to say that like you wrote at the end of your post — which is very similar to what Ana usually says — is how I feel right now. I feel at peace and hopeful. Come what may, I have my own focus and I know I’m not doing anything wrong.

    I’ve printed out much of the advice I have gotten since I’ve been here, from all the different members. I read the advice over and look at what’s going on at the moment, and judge what he’s doing based on that. It keeps me aware and I make a note to talk to him about this-or-that, or make a note to watch for certain things and see if he’ll keep his word. I forget what it was that I showed him one time and he said that women these days are quite clever. He often tries to get me to tell him who I’m talking to and what the website is, but I always say it’s none of his business laughing

    I really do care and love you all so much! I always do such heartfelt dua for you all. Insha’Allah, God is hearing them happy I wish I knew how to make a better heart, but this is the best I can do <3 Love you all very much, and I will keep you updated! Please don't hesitate to say whats on your minds! I can always use the information! I have to run to do salat now, so I'll talk to you ladies later.

  • Laila

    November 19, 2013

    Please don’t buy a Sony VIAO…. It’s not reliable Ana

  • Aishah2013

    November 19, 2013

    Salaams.thank you all for your advice and support.I have glad to have had the occasion to speak w imam (once on my own,once w hub).but know that when my hub took me in to talk w him I think he thought it was going to turn into a ” listen to your husband and be obedient to him” discussion which it did not.I had told him he doesn’t have good judgement when it comes to 2nd and taking care of the needs of our family. like OK you have your 2nd.doesn’t mean everyone else is going to embrace her.don’t force on me and kids as she hasn’t shown respect or willingness to follow some Co wife “guidelines” or “behavior”.Imam doesn’t really like to do a whole lot of family counselling.told him tell his 2nd the rules be strict on respect of all rights and all 3 sit and meet again.we shall see.hub told me before this when I said ” I need a wali.don’t know who mine was” to take his dad.so I have.that may be good for our whole family.but again I cannot change another humans actions…OK this is where I see Spirit differently.she is not gonna be used in the long run…and I get it.Spirit you may have recorded the messages to get a little bit of “revenge” or satisfaction if your hub really didn’t tell her you are still in the picture and what u mean to him.same reason I copied pictures of my Co hugging gay woman in GLBT center, and have copy her immigration papers.its kind of back up evidence.never used it never called immigration to expose her..I just have that stuff…cause I realize God is the best planner.we just plot!

  • Lynnette

    November 19, 2013

    As salamu Alaikum, and peace to All;

    @Sister Spirited,

    If you can say that you find the emotional drama of a separation and divorce to be too much to bear right now, and that the energy you would expend on dispensing with him, and dealing with the emotional fallout that would come from it would strain you to the point where MCAT prep was not possible….well, that would make sense. You can know in your heart that something is not right, and just say “hey, I can’t spare the time.” Deal with it when Allah (swt) gives you the time.

    The problem with that approach is that once you have the time, the other spouse – partner is usually upset, confused, and “feeling done wrong.” When we accept something from a man that is ungodly and a violation of our rights, he gets the message that what he is doing is perfectly acceptable to us. We teach people how to treat us. If we teach them badly, they will treat us badly. And when you go back to assert your rights, don’t be shocked if the other person acts completely clueless. They will be. In contract law, there is a defense to default or breach that is called “course of dealing.” By letting someone deal with you in a manner that breaches the contract, you’re basically re-writing the contract.

    If, for whatever reason, you’ve decided “through think and thin”, that’s legitimate too. :::insert shovel and wet suit here:::

    If you’ve decided that you’re going to wait until he gets that lucrative career, and then you’ll be looking to recoup your investment…hey, that is a reason. Just make sure that you are on good legal and Islamic grounds for doing so.

    If, for whatever reason, you’re upset with (insert name of parties here), and you’re allowing this to play out for demonstration and punishment purposes….remember that you’re punishing yourself in the process, as well.

    In other words….whatever your reason….so long as you have one, you know what it is, and you can articulate it clearly…that’s your right. You can choose. Just know your reason, and why you are choosing it.

    But Sister, I have to urge you to think conversely, and to consider the signs….

    The best way to do this might be to consider what he could “defensibly” tell the other wife; and what the evidence demonstrates to her:

    1. You have his immigration papers under your control. A word from you, and he’s back in Pakistan.

    2. “You’ve got my baby, Honey….she doesn’t.”

    3. I give you the lion’s share of my earnings.

    4. This marriage was arranged for me so that I could have a better life, and provide one to those I love….and that includes you.

    5. I show up at your beckon, you get the best of my time….

    6. She lives with her parents! We don’t even have a household

    ……I can continue, but I won’t.

    If you were her, hearing these arguments, how could you not believe him? And even if you are/were the “show me” type, his actions are consistent. A person “telling” me that they’ll never leave me means absolutely nothing. Show me that; make your actions match your words. (By the way….here’s a free survival tip. If words and deed don’t match, pay heed to deeds.)

    If you think that, because of your hepatitis exposure and your (relative) age, you’re bound to suffer anyway, release that concern to Allah (swt), and trust Him. When He closes a door, He opens another. That’s the believer’s insurance, so to speak….Allah (swt) is better than Allstate, because “you’re (really!) in Good Hands.” Allah (swt) is better than GEICO (He’s really available 24 hours per day), and He far surpasses Prudential because HE created the ROCK! and YOU! For what He provides, He has the best pay, the best benefits, and the best promotion plan EVER! So trust Him. Let Him intercede for you. He can make your life into something so beautiful and peaceful that you may not recognize it!

    Salaam, Sister….

  • ana

    November 19, 2013

    I had written something else to Spirited this morning and my lap top went blank. I think I have to go buy a new laptop today sigh I’m on my phone now, but going back to bed for a while. I’m very much concerned about Spirited, as well. I’m very much frustrated with her situation too. I think we all are. You are correct, Laila and Gail; we do love Spirited, and only want the best for her. Inshallah, I’ll check back here a bit later.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come

  • Laila

    November 19, 2013

    Even when it came to the phone, I was just trying to not comment but now I’m so sorry Soirited but I have to. It’s your husbands duty to get you a new handphone not your dad. It’s different if your dad decided to get it as a gift for you. Everyone’s telling you on this blog to help yourself. How long are you going to allow this? When are you going to realize that he knows what he’s doing and he’s taking full advantage of everything. He’s using your family home as your home. Question is till when? Yes you’re about to study and all, but seriously, isn’t that his job? I’m sorry if I came across as rude, but we all love you here and as you know we are here to support each other. I don’t think you want to confront your issues at hand. You’re sad and you’re seeing a way out with Medical school but that’s about it. It’s time your husbands learn these two words, responsibility and accountability. I know you’re a very sweet person in nature, and I know you want things to work out. But he’s taking you for granted my dear sister and I’m concerned for you. I’m sure if I were to be in ur situation you would care for me right? ( hugs )

    Salam.

  • Laila

    November 19, 2013

    Dear Spirited, by him even having the balls to tell you that once he takes on the third job it would be hard to see him. At that very instant I would pack his bags and tell him go and fly kites…. He can take a hike with his new wife and baby. I know I sound mean spirited and maybe a bit obnoxious. But when a man decides to take on another wife and family, he must embrace the thought that he’s going to have to work harder than his usual hours to make sure both sides are fair. He must also learn to manage his time. Talking about ‘desis’ I know these group way too well. They are very smart at twisting and turning facts. That’s why they don’t mess with their desi women. If not they will be kissing the bottom of the desi woman’s sandals…. I have relatives in India and Pakistan. I know what I’m talking about dear. I don’t agree that you’re staying at ur parents home. The day you got married you’re his responsibility and he must learn to find you a proper home. When my hubby and I got married we still continued to live in my rented bachelor pad. It was so cramped up with his and my stuff. But whenever I wanted to stay at my mum house, he would not allow it. He used to tell me to not get too comfortable to my mums more comfortable home. In fact he used to tell me that I’m his responsibility since we got married.

  • Gail

    November 19, 2013

    Spirited,
    Girl I love u to death I really do but dang if u do not act and sound like the typical Pakistani woman.
    Just one question Are you not ashamed that you both are living with your parents yet he gives all his money to his second wife.I honestly wonder if your parents feel guilty to marry you with him and feel this is their punishment for picking him.I also wonder are you in some way punishing your parents for picking this ding dong by letting him live in their home free?Logically I could not imagine you insulting your parents/rubbing salt in their wounds with them seeing on a daily basis that your husband is acting like a deadbeat financially towards you but my gut feeling is that you are emotionally upset towards your parents for making the a wrong marriage choice on your behalf.
    Have you ever heard this Joke?
    There was this flood and everyone got on their roofs and a boat came and asked the man Hey come on jump in the boat but the man waved the boat to go on after awhile another boat came by and again they screamed at the man to jump in the water is getting higher and dangerous but again he just waived the boat to go on.After awhile a helicopter came and asked the man to come on and yet again same as before he just waved the helicopter to go.The water eventually covers the house and the man drowns and he gets to heaven and he told G.D I was praying for you to save me but I drowned.G.D replied the man what are you talking about I sent you two boats and helicopter.lol
    My point is G.D gave wants us to have patience but he also gave us a brain to use and you can’t just keep turning a blind eye to what is obviously staring you right in the face or I am afraid you may have the same fate as the man that did not use his brain and drowned.I am really concerned about you.Please think about what I am trying to tell you my sweet friend.

    Also I want to say you talk about patience alotttt but I will be honest I see Allah/G.D being pretty clear here.

  • Spirited

    November 19, 2013

    Salaam gals,

    Just checkin’ in before hitting the soft warm bed big grin

    @Ana, I don’t see anything wrong with this being any of your business, to be honest. I feel we’ve all become very into each other’s business laughing So it’s no big problem, I can take whatever anyone wants to dish out.

    See the thing is, the money issue has been something we’ve talked about from the very beginning of our marriage. Insha’Allah, when he’s done with his education, we shouldn’t have any issues about it, so we had agreed together to just live frugal-y until that was accomplished and holding off on kids was part of that agreement. Ever since this whole polygamy thing, I have most certainly brought it up many times, and he says the only solution is for him to get a 2nd job or even 3 jobs because he dares not expect me to pitch in anymore — and I most certainly will not. My parents have a wonderful house they built themselves just a few years ago, and I don’t have too many issues living here. He tried to scare me with if he has to take up more jobs to be fair with the amount of money, I surely won’t be seeing him very often, if at all, and I’m sure he wouldn’t miss whatever time he has off to “go see my baby.” rolling eyes I told him I didn’t care. Insha’Allah WHEN (not if big grin ) I get accepted into med school, I may be dorm-ing or rent out a place because I may be accepted in another state — and even if I get accepted in my own state, it would be too far to commute. Basically, I wouldn’t see him very often anyway, so I said go ahead and find more jobs. I might have cared before about not seeing him very much, but not now.

    I’ve made it very clear to him today (when he was here) that if I don’t see the changes he promised when he begged me not to leave him, then he shouldn’t bother coming back to this state the next time he goes to his prostitute. But the reason I don’t bring up the “unfair” treatment regarding money too much is because its true he does have to give some money for his kid, and some he’s paying monthly for cord bank — I’ve asked him just what she’s contributing for her own kid and all I get is “she is, don’t worry” (I don’t believe him, but I’m leaving it in Allah’s hands, I don’t care). Plus, I’ve been having a fight or arguing with him every time he’s been here about something or another. If I keep doing that, he won’t even want to stop by — who wants to come home to arguments? My mom recommended that I just let it go. She said I have made my point to him already and if he corrects the situation, good. If not, let Allah handle it because I’ve got my own plan and I don’t intend to step away from it. Insha’Allah, after just a few years, I’ll have more money than I’ll know what to do with winking

    @Laila, that’s exactly how I feel! I’m only 32, so I know I’m not “over the hill” that I can’t find someone else to marry (if I had to), I am totally feeling you on that. Like I said above to Ana, I’ve already been fighting with him for much of his treatment and my mother has suggested that I shouldn’t keep bringing it up anymore. Here’s something I just remembered. When my husband finally revealed all these lies and secrets, I didn’t want to see or talk to him for a month — so we were pretty much separated. He has said that during that time, he realized what he had in me and cried over what he had done. He later begged me over and over again to not leave him (my uncle has a voice recording and I have made copies of the text messages as proofs).

    I’ll continue to see how things turn out and if he doesn’t fulfill his requirements, he’s out of here. I’m not going to stress over the lack of fairness anymore. I have more important things to focus on and once you leave something in Allah’s hands, you should trust that He will handle it better than anything you as a human could ever do. If it seems like I’m letting myself be walked on, well I guess that’s just the way it looks. I don’t create problems for other people, it’s just not who I am. happy

    Well, I’m really sleepy now, hopefully I made even a small amount of sense laughing
    Goodnight everyone! May God watch over you all.

  • Laila

    November 18, 2013

    Dear Spirited, why are you allowing such nensoce to take place? Kids or not he’s got to share and give the same amount of allowances every month. My co-wife and I get the same amount every month. Yes I have my own money but I use it to buy groceries and all the home decorations that I feel is necessary as we moved in about a year ago….. My co doesn’t use her monthly allowances much as a lot of her stuff are nearly paid off. So she’s enjoying it now. In my case I’ve got still loads to clear off. By you both staying there and he giving her more no wonder your parents are upset. They have a right to be because in their eyes they feel he’s not steeping up. Spirited, I’m not asking u to fight with him after this. I’m asking u to stand up for urself and tell him that since he wanted to start a mess of having another wife and immediatly a baby, the allowances has to be equal and that he’s got to think about getting a place for u to stay. He needs a bit of pressure on his a&$…. U may not like what I say, but he’s taking advantage of the whole situation. Finding another man at medical school is another thing. For now, I suggest u face ur reality here. I feel that you’re trying to sweep things under the carpet, and for how long dear? …..

  • Laila

    November 18, 2013

    Dear Ana and all the sisters here, I’ve been doing my reading about everyone’s issues here and this is what i feel, please don’t kill me winking
    Whether a man remarries a younger woman or not, I think games will be still played by either the first or the second… People have this notion that the new wives will play all the tricks she knows and will try to play BOSS. maybe in some cases its true and some cases it’s not. Look at me girls, you know what my issues were….. What I feel is women have the tendency to want to be in control, and to gain that they either do matters in a very indirect manner or just go face on. I often fel this happens because the men also do not step up to the plate. They want to sort of be in their own wonderland, and they have this stupid belief that all matters will clear up magically by itself. It won’t! In my case due to all the mean stuff done, I told hubby that I can’t forgive or forget. It’s so hard…. Rules should be laid down from day one. all wives must set aside their ego, and personal vendetta and work with one another either directly or through their husbands.

    Im not attacking anyone here. We are all here due to our polygamous set up. Nobody asked for it, nobody planned for it. It just happened. But I feel, some issues can be eliminated if the man steps up and plays his part as a leader and not run off to work or to have his down time with his buddies thinking…. Ohhhh women will always fret! ….. ;( Money also needs to be separated for two families. Aishah, I can understand how u feel. If my co-wife used my money from my account, I would run her down with my car. But if I were to give willingly then that’s another issue. But taking and knowing exactly where it came from is shameful and shows that the woman has no manners whatsoever! Ita basic moral values, when a man decides to have a bigger family, I.e. Polygamous, he must work harder and make sure financially all ends are covered. If not, it’s best to forget that whole thing.

    Just my thoughts ladies.

    Salam

  • ana

    November 18, 2013

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Peace to All,

    @Kim,

    I’m not a bit surprised “N” resurfaced. I didn’t think you were let off the hook that easily. As weird as it seems, it doesn’t appear there are many who have had a taste of polygamy that can leave it alone. I don’t know how you’re going to deal this one”, as Gail would say. LOL Back on the roller coaster you go. You may have to deal with “crazy” all over again. I’m really feeling for you, Kimlaughing You have a love/ hate relationship going on with “M”. He angers you; yet he knows the right things to say that melts you, and bring you back under his sway. sigh Insha Allah, keep us posted.

    @Spirited,

    Although I had never heard Lynette grandmother’s saying, “where a man’s money went….his heart was not far away”, I believe there is some truth to it, based on what I’ve seen and heard over the years about various relationships.

    You said Pakistani men are “cheap”, but your hubs doesn’t appear to be so with his other. Allah knows best, but I really think he’s “playing you” with regard the child and all he’s doing for it – that none of it is for her.

    I get a bit confused when it come to you and your situation. But, it’s really none of my business, so I don’t want to spend so much time on trying to figure it out. I’ve expressed my views about it to you a number of time.

    There is a time to take action and a time to exercise patience. I don’t know if your parents are all that wrong in wanting you to stand up for yourself, and not be used as a door mat. Allah swt does say that when an oppressive wrong is done to us we should not be cowed but help defend ourselves. I see it that an oppressive wrong is being done to you. You’re asked and expected to help maintain a lie and deception and he doesn’t respect you as his wife. He wants to hide you and give you way less than his other. It doesn’t sit well with me that he gives his other $2,000.00 of his $3,000.00 a month and give you scraps while you and he live in your parents house. If you feel it’s what you deserve, then why would things change?

    On a good note, I am very happy you have a new phone and you are enjoying it. Insha Allah, all will go well with your higher learning. It should keep you busy and your mind occupied on something other than your husband.

    I better run for now.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Laila

    November 18, 2013

    I’m not saying all is rosy and well. But I’ve calmed down a lot, and he’s made changes that shows me that he gives a damn about this relationship. Sometimes words aren’t needed, rather actions speak way louder. I think in my case, I’ve grown up to 31 years old, and realized, hey….. I don’t need to tolerate all this nonsense. Things must change for the better. If not I do have a choice, and that is to walk. I know some ladies may not agree to my statement. But in MY CASE,I felt that if things don’t change, I’d better walk, or else I will go insane with all the pent up stress and anger. I’ve as you can say, reevaluated my life, shifted a lot of my personal beliefs and am coming out of my shell.

    Salam ladies winking

  • Laila

    November 18, 2013

    Dear Spirited and Ummof4, yes you’re right about me sounding better. I am feeling much happier in my own way. In the past, I’m sure you both have read my issues and as much as I was on the right, nothing was going to what I was expecting. I felt so helpless….. And stuck. After contemplating for a while, I’ve realized that sometimes, it’s best to just state your issues, provide facts to back you up and then just shut up. I guess men after a while will digest what’s been said and will look at the bigger picture and will do the necessary.

    I’m still sticking to my traveling plans… winking you’re right Ummof4, when a man remarries such a young woman, perspectives change after a while. You’re becoming your own woman and sometimes you’re no longer patient at certain things taken for granted. My husband and I had a long but open discussion about two weeks ago. We REALLY TALKED. he noticed I was very quiet and asked me whether I was happy in the marriage. I said no….. He was a bit taken aback but then he decided to talk. I voiced a lot about how I feel and told him that if we are to live in misery, then we had better seek for a divorce. I told him that I’m still at the age where I’m able to remarry and that I can have my own options in life. I can’t be tied down to his and her needs all the time with mine ignored. I also touched on sensitivity. I told him how would she feel If I were to use our children later on for errands on the Christmas weekend, or the Chinese New Year weekend. Would she take it well? ….. I really emphasized on the need to respect one and another even though we may not like each other. I told him that he’s got to be a proper leader and not get all touchy feely when I tell him about her and their kids. I told him that as much as I love him, but when a person takes another for granted in a relationship, the love between them also is slowly diminishing by the day. I told him very calmly to look into a separation, maybe for about a month to clear our heads out and to decide. It wasn’t fair to me, and him and her. Something had to give. I was ready to make my exit plan.

    In the past I’ve said that divorce wasn’t an option. It was about a few weeks ago. In my situation I felt that it wasn’t worth it anymore and that I deserve better in my life. If I had to walk, and hopefully I meet someone better, single maybe, I would remarry. I don’t want to waste my remaining years on this earth fighting and crying. My body can’t take more. I started to have massive body aches. As Lynette said, it could be due to the stress. I believe it was.

    He’s now changed a lot. He listens to me and her.

  • Spirited

    November 18, 2013

    Salaam everyone!

    Hope you all had a nice Monday. Mine was pleasant. Figured out more stuff about my new phone. Husband stopped by for a few hours and my other brother was also around.

    @Lynnette, oh please don’t feel you have to hold yourself back — everyone should always say whats on their mind (politely of course). If people didn’t play mind games with each other, it would surely be a much simpler world.

    I’ve never waived any of my rights and the husband has no assumptions about that. You probably know the money situation is the main reason we’re with my parents. The reality is that my husband has spent about…I’ll be generous and say $1,500 specifically on me over 6 yrs. Like most Pakistani men (or is it just Pakistani men from a village?) he is extremely cheap. As he tells it, the reason he “has” to give so much money to his “-itch” is for child support rolling eyes (yea suuuuure)

    But whatever, once again, I don’t care anymore. He hasn’t been important to me financially so far, and I’m not focusing on it. Allah will be sure to deal with him (and her) for whatever injustices they’re involved in. I’ve said before, I’m going to use what money I have saved for the change in my career. I could just stick with vascular diagnostic sonography, but that’s much too dependent on the job market (I was definitely affected by the economic meltdown). My brother, who has been guiding me on the road to DO, says that I definitely have a great chance, I just have to get my ducks in a row. Right now, I have to get two more letters of recommendation (these two people are turning out to be notoriously forgetful, I swear laughing I’ve reminded them each twice so far) and re-take the MCAT (old score expired).

    I’ve heard lots of grandmotherly advice in the past few months, but that one from yours is new. happy Again, I leave it to Allah. If Allah has decreed that his heart will follow the money, so be it. I may end up meeting someone at med school, demand a divorce and marry that person! laughing Who can say? Now, I don’t particularly care about worrying about things I can’t affect or that might be in the future because I can’t see the future and I can’t change anything that Allah has set. I certainly feel a lot of mental freedom and like a weight is lifted from my shoulders. This doesn’t mean I love my husband any less or that I want to leave him, but the FACT is that if he hurts me again, I will have no qualms about cutting ties. That also doesn’t mean that I can’t complain about him when I need to. Its just that simple. big grin

    Thank you again for your advice, I appreciate everyone’s input. I’m heading out to drop off my brother. Talk to you ladies later!

  • ana

    November 18, 2013

    Ummof4, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    I can’t stress enough that it is because of all the wonderful people like you who Allah swt sent here, those who write, share their wisdom, real life stories, give advice and more that this blog is what it is. It gives me such joy to know each and every one of yous. I can’t thank Allah enough…

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Lynnette

    November 18, 2013

    @ Sister Spirited,

    I am holding my tongue right now, praying that Allah (swt) blesses me with just the right way to tell you this….

    Your husband is giving 2/3 of his income to one wife? Where is the equity in that? Did you waive your right to support?

    Sister, please, study hard. I cannot tell you what to do with your marriage; that contract is between you and your husband. But study hard, open your eyes…those are pieces of advice I feel comfortable giving.

    My grandmother used to say that where a man’s money went….his heart was not far away…

    She was wise.

  • ummof4

    November 18, 2013

    As-salaamu alaikum and hello to all,

    Lili, you remind me of myself at your age. Just an old soul or a young soul who seemed to acquire wisdom at an early age. May Allah guide you properly and keep you safe from harm.

    Aishah 2013, Alhamdulillah, you and your husband sought guidance from the imam. Based on what you have reported, he sounds like a just man. I pray that your husband takes his advice, In shaa’Allah.

    Laila, you seem to have gotten out of the dark place you were in a couple of weeks ago, Alhamdulillah. I pray that your schedule works.

    On the issue of men marrying much younger women as second wives. The difference between a 20 year old wife and a 40 year old husband is great; the wife is still growing into her womanhood and will most likely change greatly in the way that she sees her husband; as has happened in the case of Laila. The difference between a 40 year old wife and a 60 year old husband is not as great, even if the wife is a virgin. Most women have matured by 40, and are so appreciative of having a husband, they are less likely to play silly games. I SAID MOST WOMEN, I KNOW THAT SOME OF THE WIVES OVER 40 WHO ARE REFERRED TO IN THIS SITE STILL LIKE TO PLAY SILLY GAMES.

    May Allah guide us all to what is correct and keep us on the Seeratul Mustaqeem (The Straight Path).

    Ana, thanks again for allowing me to comment on this site. You are providing a much needed service for women in polygyny.

  • Spirited

    November 18, 2013

    Salaam everyone!
    l was going to say that hopefully everyone had a great weekend, but it looks like there were some bad days for some ladies sad Thankfully everyone is well, at least. happy

    @Aishah, Its sad to see that even after your husband’s Hajj, things are still not as smooth as everyone would like. You know what? Just focus on you and your kids, that is the important thing. I’ve seen that sometimes, if you ignore the husband, he will care about you more! Kind of like reverse psychology. I think that worked in Laila’s recent issue also. Don’t despair <3

    @ Kim, to hear about more drama. I really wish other people would stop making a difficult situation even harder. My prayers are with you, As well as for everyone else here under the same mental anguish.

    @Laila, its so good to see you are doing well! with your writing and advice, a person can easily see that you have grown emotionally. I hope you keep it up!

    Hmm, lets see, my father bought me a (used but new to me) new phone! My old one finally gave up. (Yes, my husband should have bought it, but he's giving his 2nd wife about $2000 of his $3000/month paycheck, leaving barely enough to pay for gas, phone bill, food, etc.) rolling eyes Whatever. The phone is a note 2. I love the technology in this device! Lol big grin

    Well ladies, I will see you later, Salat time here!

  • Lynnette

    November 18, 2013

    Sister Laila,

    Are your courses preparing your pupils for University? For vocations? I’m really curious about the curriculum.

    Are school fees a financial hardship for families in your area? Do your pupils wear uniforms?

    I have soooooo many questions for you, Sister. Please share as you feel comfortable…

  • Laila

    November 18, 2013

    Dear sister Lynette, I know…. winking I just can’t seem to ignore strays…. Even my fat boy at home was a stray to begin with and now he’s the baby of my house. Everyday when I hug him I feel so so happy inside, God, I can’t express how animals make me feel…. Bliss! I’ve wanted to be a veterinarian when I was very young. But couldn’t take up the course as my dad couldnt afford it…. I’m the type that prefers the company of animals. They love unconditionally. They have no agenda Lynette. Just love,plain and simple. My mums cats follow me everywhere around her home when I’m visiting. I feel I know what makes them tick. My dream is to run a welfare centre for strays…. One day maybe.

    Yes I run an educational centre. Used to be teacher in a private school in my country. I resigned after getting married as my work kept getting increased by the day. So my husband told me to run my own centre. My youngest are from the ages of seven till seventeen. I have teachers working under me. It’s not easy Lynette. The competition is great but then again it’s good because at least I work hard. I have my dreams Lynette. In UK they have the knightship, where people are addressed as Sir… I too want such titles in my country. I have my dreams, and I’ve got to act upon it. winking

  • Laila

    November 18, 2013

    On another note, Aishah she’s probably not listening to you because of your husbands behaviour. By using your money it’s giving her the message that you don’t matter much. Your earning are TO BE USED AS HE SEES FIT. sometimes when my co-wife aggravates me and I’m really depressed, i notice that my husband gets upset. He does tell me once in a while that he’s told her to not irritate or aggravate my anger and create further issues between us. He can be a difficult man Aishah, use read my rants, but one thing I do notice is, he gives it to her when she starts a fire between us. Your husband has to be the leader and not just listen to her only.

    I do agree that when a man remarries a much younger woman, it’s embarrassing and sometimes maturity comes late in the second woman. The men feel that it’s an ego boost, and therefore love the idea of a young, needy and clingy wife. But trust me, after a while he will find that clingy attitude annoying to the max. I also agree than when a new wife comes into an already existing family, she shouldn’t try to play boss. It’s already hard enough that the first family has to share a husband and father in terms of time and other matters, it doesn’t help with unwanted interruptions.

    You must ask for a proper code of behaviour. If not this interruptions will never cease to end.

  • Laila

    November 18, 2013

    Dear Aishah, please be patient and be clear in you mind. I went through exactly what you are experiencing. When we got married, my co-wife used to call ALL THE TIME. Sometimes her conversations would be on such trivial matters. Yet when she calls, I used to keep quiet. But if I were to call, oh my God, I could hear her shouting in the background saying that I’m have nothing better to do! Wow…… So now I’ve totally stopped calling. You would think I would give her the same treatment when she still calls till today. Nope. I’m way better than her. So I still keep quiet but my hubby sometimes tells her off to not bother him over silly matters. At times, he just ignores her calls or sometimes he switches off his handphone when she calls non-stop. When I say non-stop, I mean 30-40 times at one go.

    Now that you have an imam being the negotiator then I think things will be better. Just be calm and let the imam take over. The more you try to talk and view your points the more agitated you husband will be….. You are fighting a loosing battle. Be smart and play your cards right.

    As in money, I would immediately take all my money out and transfer it into another account. I wont share my account anymore because it’s obvious that he’s not reliable when it comes to cash. He might just blow up everything. Be quiet for a few days. Go out to the park and enjoy nature. I find that when I’m very depressed I walk over to the trees near my apartment area and I sit there enjoying nature. It’s very helpful and I calm down almost instantly.

    Don’t let your husband make you depressed. Take charge of the matter sister.

    Salam

  • Lynnette

    November 18, 2013

    As Salaams Alaikum and Peace to All,

    @Sister Aishah,

    I was thrilled to hear that you went to see the Imam, and even more happy for you that he advised you to segregate your money and protect your time. Your life does not deserve to be interrupted by some manipulative and conniving woman who plays the helpless role. That young woman is not helpless! You have heard me use the term “game” as it applies to her on so many occasions; it isn’t that I don’t know other words. It is that I’m looking at the dynamic that has been created, and that’s exactly what I see. She does not want guidance; she does not want a successful relationship with you. She wants money; she wants control in her life (and if that means control over your life, so be it); she wants time and attention; and above all, she wants to be the center of attention. She’s deserving of nothing that you don’t deserve, Sister! May Allah guide all us is to the straight path, Ameen.

    @ Sister Lili,

    We <3 you here!

    @ Sister Ana,

    Wax is all about trust, Love! (I wish I had your emoticons. I could think of uses).😉. No amateurs welcome at that juncture. That's also a "get what you pay for" experience; if you decide to go ahead with it at some later date, don't skimp. Tip generously.

    @ Sister Jenny,

    I missed you! Anyway, you may vaguely remember that my heart kept for joy when you said that you would make a way for both Ibi and Maryam, because you may be her only way out.

    Most of the Pakistani women I know here are quite capable in their own ways, and they work hard. I see that the ones who can afford it (even here) have no aversion to having at least some domestic help. Personally, I believe domestic help should be the right of any woman who can afford some….just my opinion, though. A lot of people's lives would be improved with a little domestic help winking. Do you know how proud I am — how proud we all are — of your success? I know you work hard, and I am happy to see it pay off for you. I am praying for you, your family — including your extended family, and your pregnancy….keep us posted.

    @Sister Laila,

    I was reading through your last writings, and seeing more of that mirror I keep referring to when I address you.

    I wish you the best on your "save the cats" program; stray cats follow me when I see them, and it is heartbreaking.

    I heard you mention your school. What ages do you teach?

    Will write more when I have a break….Salaams to all.

  • Aishah2013

    November 18, 2013

    thanks everyone.I will get through one way or another.with Gods help of course.I need a couple projects to work on that will help me.getting him to Hajj was later big project when I needed something.doesn’t have to be as big as that but something ..

  • Kim

    November 18, 2013

    Asalaam aleikum and good morning all….

    Been a hellish weekend and now I am on my way to work and caught up on the blog. So much to comment on and no time….insha Allah later from my laptop. I want to address the India Pakistan Kashmir issue since I lived there and will again soon insha Allah….and Aishah’s struggles. And give a quick update on uus….N has made her waves again after months of silence….argh.

  • ana

    November 17, 2013

    Lili,

    You are a cutie pie happy I luv you.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Lili

    November 17, 2013

    @Aishah, that is terrible behavior. She should be embarrassed and ashamed of herself. A woman coming into an existing marriage needs to respect what is there and learn not to be so needy. You have far more reason than her to contact your husband on her time, and she still wouldn’t like it, would she?
    You are right to stand up for yourself and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. You didn’t ask for polygamy, and therefore you have no responsibility to help your husband support his others.
    Maybe your co-wife has illusions that because she is so young, your husband will set you aside or make you submit to her, and that is never the case. Know this: no matter what happens, you are his first wife. Yes, I believe wives should be equal, but you’ve earned your place as first. It is a position that deserves admiration and respect, especially in your situation and the situations of the women on this blog.
    *hugs* I really hope things get better. It’s a cliche and seems like the most obvious advice, but it’s true that you should just keep your head held high and focus on yourself.

  • ana

    November 17, 2013

    Aishah,

    I agree with you that you won’t be able to teach her. She’s not receptive to any advice or guidance from you. It’s probably best you keep your distance from her. You had to represent yourself, which required you to verbalize. What were you supposed to do – use sign language?

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Aishah2013

    November 17, 2013

    I wrote something something but phone froze.Lili the age difference doesn’t work well in our case.maybe if she was honest and seemed a nice person I could find something in common with her.not the case.Ana thanks yes imam said he is seriously wrong to spend money on Co from bank account where I put my checks.said “separate all your money sister.u don’t have to give him a dime.he is responsible and needs to think of finances it if he wanted 2nd wife…said he was seriously wrong and her too for cutting into mine and kids time for rides/texts/calls.need stop immediately.on subject of telling me their story ” accept it,leave it if they wont disclose,although would be healthiest way.agreed again wives need some distance space.. we had arguement today and both spoke together w imam.all of above and told my hub be more sensitive to me(didn’t know she so young)and to not abuse me financially and get very firm w her to respect our time/no text/calls…OK I was kinda verbal..then imam says she’s younger u couldvguide her..I said not teachable.anyway hub said I was too verbal..

  • Lili

    November 17, 2013

    @Aishah, I’m sorry that you’re struggling with your husband’s other, and I hope the situation gets better.
    Personally, I don’t believe in men marrying women that are at the age of their children. Older men with no children? In that case, I believe it’s possible to create a loving marriage. But men with sons and daughters who are 18+ marrying women who are at their age or sometimes younger??? It’s such a conflicting dynamic. I can’t see how it would work.

  • ana

    November 17, 2013

    Sis Aishah,

    I’m still thinking of you sigh Don’t despair. All will be okay. I really don’t know what it’s like to have a co who is young. If she’s near the same age as some of your kids, you know the mentality. Imagine you have a daughter the same age as your co; you’d expect your husband to look out for her welfare. I’d imagine it’s the same with your husband and your co. He looks out for her the same as he would a daughter; although intimacy gets thrown in.

    Your co doesn’t sound to have the mentality of Lili or Valuable Star. I’m beginning to understand that although my husband’s other isn’t young, I have to respect her limitations.

    I don’t know what else to say to you right now that you don’t already know. You have to find a way to stop focusing on her and him. Make the best of your life with your children and focus on growing nearer to Allah by learning more about Him.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Gail

    November 17, 2013

    Jenny,
    It is the same in my inlaws home.My mother inlaw does not want servants in the home because she says they steal so she has always had her daughters and daughter inlaws to deal the home.
    Ana is correct in the fact that when your daughter grows up she will do the same as R and repeat the cycle unless she is taught differently.It is not bad or good it is just the way it is.I don’t even waste time thinking on it anymore.I am like you though and wanted more for my daughter than living her life knowing she will be married off to the highest bidder/richest man the parents can find.I am happy my daughter at least has options now unlike her cousins.

  • ana

    November 17, 2013

    @Laila, As Salaamu Alaikum,

    I went to the “Green” site and saw an interesting article on waxing. My skin is so sensitive that I dare not try any type of waxing for fear I’d do some serious damage. I intended to get a Brazilian wax until one day I saw a story on TV about a woman who had one that SEVERELY, permanently damaged her public area surprise It was all I had to see to know to stay away from it. I had my eyebrows professionally waxed once and it burned my face, but didn’t scar or anything. Now, if I get my brows done, it’s the traditional tweeze way.

    For those who aren’t familiar with sugar waxing, but are interested, here’s a link that may be helpful:

    http://www.greenprophet.com/2013/01/diy-natural-sugar-wax/

    Laila,

    You and my mom have so much in common with regard to cats. She absolutely loves them. She feeds strays, the same as you. At one time she had five cats. Now, she only has two. I like cats, but fear becoming a “cat woman” like my mom. LOL You have a kind heart, Laila. I understand our Beloved Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was way kind to animals happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    November 17, 2013

    @Jenny,

    I’m learning so much about Pakistan and India. I suppose one thing little Maryam has to look forward to, if she remains in Pakistan, is to one day, be a mother and have children who will one day cater to her. And the cycle continues. Although, I think you and your husband intend to rescue her from it. Right?

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    November 17, 2013

    Aishah, Wa Alaikum As Salaam

    You’re not coming off as “terribly negative.” You’re expressing how you feel and what’s going on. Did the Imam state your husband is doing anything wrong with regard to you?

    It’s a tricky situation you are in from what you’ve informed us. Your husband isn’t neglecting you and the children in a glaring way. He sees and spends time with you and the children. I think he’s not seeing you and the children the way you’d like him to.

    Fair and Just is relative to everyone’s particular situation. Regarding your co’s situation, it could be considered a good deed that he takes her to work and pick her up. She is his wife; therefore, he has a responsibility to her to make sure she gets to where she needs to go and returns home safely. She works; it’s not as though she goes to the mall or clubbing.

    He does see you on your days/nights, but the time is interrupted when he goes to transport her. It could be seen as a good deed on your part, as well, if you just let it be and mean it in your heart that you’re going to go with it, knowing it is Allah’s decision and you want to keep the peace. Maybe if you step back and stop the pressure things will begin to work better for you.

    You have to think of what you could do to make this work, as you know you cannot control him or her. As the Imam said, Allah will decide between all of you on the Day of Judgement. You’re accountable for getting yourself right, and raising your children correctly.

    If you think your husband is terribly unjust and unfair, divorce is an option for you (if it pleases Allah). It’s how I see it, looking at the picture from afar, and not in the picture.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Jenny

    November 17, 2013

    I know Pakistani women, some of them, must have it lovely, but R is not one of them. There are no servants in the home, that has NEVER happened. As a matter of fact, R is now working in the girls school as a helper of some sort. Her vacation is long over. I feel bad because Maryam does all the work while her mother sits on the couch and smiles while she is not at the school.

    My husband told me, and I never would have imagined it, but it is Maryam and Ismail who take care of my Mother-In-Law. Everyone lives on the compound, but no one helps her. Not her daughter or eldest son. I was shocked when I heard this because I thought everyone would be fighting to take care of grandma.

    But Gail, you’re right, the culture is different!

  • Aishah2013

    November 17, 2013

    maybe its hard for me to come on and blog cause whereas I don’t want to come off as terribly negative I don’t have much positive to say at the moment.I know its Gods decree but when you factor in how the humans conduct themselves it can either make or break it..

  • Aishah2013

    November 17, 2013

    salaams.just checking in saying hello.been a rough one for Aishah.much family disagreement.difficult for older kids as well as younger.really really tough if a hub picks a second wife same age as his kids!!! not going well.have spoken to imam about issues.hub wouldn’t go with me as he initially promised to.he will speak with him.have recruited someone to act as a wali for me.in the end I can’t change anyone but myself.he is responsible for his actions and she is responsible for her actions on day of judgement.

  • Valuable star

    November 17, 2013

    Hie there Spirited!!

    I am happy to meet you and have you here……
    I completely agree with Ana that any group of people should not blame another for their circumstances!
    Regarding problems caused by India if you are that particular and update then What about all the wars Initiated by pakistan against India which eventually resulted in their own defeat and great destruction caused to India despite the fact India never started war with any country and is known as a secular and peace making country(eg. Kargil war which pakistan started, got defeated) and ofcourse terrorism and its rootcause in the World needs no introduction!! Also taking present scenario in consideration you can just google and come to know position of women in India and position of women in pakistan….

    Undoubtedly we all have a sense of belonging to our origin and motherland and the spirit you have for your country, actually every citizen should have and I truly respect that and understand it has got nothing to do with being mean and showing disrespect to me. I don’t think I have anywhere stated that my country is an Ideal one. Its not about any country but a fact that if position of women is degraded then not only the present but also the future is degraded also children are the future of any country..

    Talking about myself I have explored so many different parts of India but never met any polygamous family, which I would certainly love to do, belonging to a very rich family and being the only daughter never ever felt the need to express my any of the wishes, studied in International school and now in international university where I have few friends who have got relatives in Pakistan and we truly enjoy cricket matches between India and Pakistan!!

    Also I would love to know What made you judge and predict that Its very certain I am highly unlikely to get a man who would never cheat!!
    Are you an astrologer? If yes, then please I would like to know a bit more about my future and would be greatful to you for devoting your valuable time….
    As far as I know in the History of my family no one even uttered the word Divorce, never cheated on each other and are not only couples chosen by God but even best of friends, partners and a complete world to each other and the way my parents adore each other makes me believe in the concept of soulmates. Mostly all are in same profession and almost all the time together which makes them capable of knowing if their significant other has an affair!!

    As far as I know about you I must say what you have been through and then the way you handled it, I simply don’t have words to express my feelings and respect for the love and devotion you have for you partner.People like you make me believe that – Yes, Love do exists and is above all!! Looking forward to know your Husband’s health, please keep us updated…

    Actually I am a student and my exams are going on and at the same time preparing for some competition, also in Hostel we have access to wifi from 7 p.m. to 8 a.m.( rest of the time is spend in college). So I am not very updated with this blog…

    Please accept my sincere apology if I ever without any intentions or even by mistake failed in maintaining the soul and spirit of this blog i.e. HUMANITY and SPIRITUALITY which is above all!!
    Wish you all the happiness in the world..
    thanks and much love

  • Laila

    November 17, 2013

    Dear Gail and Jenny. You both touched on women generally from India and Pakistan who don’t do much as it’s in their culture. I agree. I think people aren’t lazy but rather it’s the culture and beliefs that sort of come in play with their personal family life. In my own Punjabi culture, women are very pampered. When we have kids, it’s understood that husbands must provide a live in maid to help out with the household chores and the kids. Well since I married my husband and have been mingling with the other side of relatives, my beliefs have changed! I cook, clean, do the laundry, grocery shopping, feed and clean our cat, work three jobs and study! If we have kids, I’ve decided to leave my kids at a baby sitters home during the time I work. I’ve changed because, I don’t see the need for a maid. Many get one in my home country to show off that they are wealthy. I don’t entertain such nonsense. I don’t need to show what I have to feel wealthy. And personally… I like my privacy at home as well.

    In India labour is cheap therefore most families can afford to have maids for some types of jobs. Or in other cases if families live together everyone has a job. I’ve seen that for myself. Most Indian and Pakistani women find women who work and handle their own homes crazy. Maybe they’re right. Maybe were crazy for taking on so much. But I like to run my home on my own terms. I’m not willing to share winking sorry. I am also of the belief that maids make people lazy. My own relatives can go berserk when their maids leave and you can literally see the fear in their eyes. They can’t manage their homes. Wealthy or not, I don’t want to have kids in my home thinking that that’s the way of life. My parents brought me up in the scenarios of, u used the plate, u wash the plate. My husband is pampered. He leave his plate and cup around the house and I pick it up and clean up. Well, some exceptions can be made winking but for our future kids. No way!

  • Laila

    November 17, 2013

    Dear Ana, I’ve been very very troubled to see many strays in my area of residences starving. Today I couldn’t stand it any longer, I decided to act upon it. I am starting to feed these beautiful but downtrodden cats. As Ive been going through the Internet about our Prophet, I came across this website entitled, Green Mosque Sermon’. I was looking about what our Prophet had to advise us about strays and their welfare. So if you have time, maybe u can check it out. It touches on a lot of aspects on the religion but in a lighthearted manner.

    Salam.

    P.S. I’m using my tip Edwards to fill it up with cat food. Going to put in all my cars. So when I see any skinny malnourished cat, I’m going to stop, feed and go along with my work winking hope my cat project becomes a success!

  • ~Fatima~

    November 16, 2013

    @Gail.. You are correct when you say the women in these other countries who have grown children do not do most or any of the housewoek or cooking.. Its NOT that they are lazy and want to sit on their A$$ all day.. its just the culture and the way they are raised.. When my sister in law was here, she saw that I did all the cooking , cleaning, and care of the kids and also worked outside of the house..
    She said ohh your the maid and the housekeeper too? She said doesnt habeeb love you? He should not let you work so hard… I swear in these other countries, they more or less keep the wife sacred, and not let her work because they feel that is their job as a husband to support her.. My sister in laws daughters ALL did the cooking and cleaning.. She spent a lot of her time praying and such..
    So I bet Jennys co thinks Jenny not only is the maid and housekeeper and nanny too.. Probably wonders why she has to do everything and work so hard. Thats just the way my sister in law thought about me.. Made me wonder if she thougt My husband just took advantage of my hard work…
    Because she said the women in these other countries like india pakistan, are like queens in the home and the husbands dont want them to work outside the home and they will be the providers.. She tried to explain to me if a woman brings in the money. then the man feels like he has not done his job in taking care of his wife..
    So I guess she went back to India and told everyone that I am the maid and work hard outside the home also and they all probably gasped and said oh my … Habeeb just dont care for his wife there.. HAHA
    They dont think ok.. shes a good wife.. she cooks cleans works.. does everything.. They just look at me like Im a working dog and not a respected wife I think.. hahahh

  • Jenny

    November 16, 2013

    Gail & Ana,

    Believe it or not, I’m sure she most know all I do because I am on Skype with them while I am in the office and they see me in action. They know I do multiple jobs and I let them know we work hard so we can pay for their college.

    R generally just sits back and listens. Everyone hears hubby and I laughing and joking and it is good because the kids are relaxed and not so tense being around the old man. If I were her, my heart would be in my throat, but then we are different.

    Believe me, my husband and I spoke what will happen to her after everyone leaves home. She will stay in the house. The farm has everyone living on it, so she will not be alone. Also, my sister-in-law is there. Both of them are in the same boat. Her husband lives in Florida and has made a family with an American woman.

    My mother-in-law has been shocking me lately. The kids tell me she prays for me everyday and then last weekend told everyone they should listen to me. What’s with that? surprise Total change!

  • ana

    November 16, 2013

    @Gail,

    I’d imagine it would be a colossal culture shock for Jenny’s ex-co to see and know all that Jenny does rolling on the floor It’s interesting how you said each person has a chore to do in a Pakistani family. Although, I am not Pakistani; I can relate. When I was in my early teens my step-dad had me do the cooking and my older sister did the house cleaning. His sister who is younger than me lived with us and she did the dish washing. My mom and step-dad worked. Perhaps it’s another reason I stopped cooking when I was no longer forced to. Gail, Insha Allah, your in-laws will be safe, despite all that is happening in Pindi sad

    @Spirited,

    Insha Allah, all will be okay with your husband. He must be anxious about the results. We never know what is in store for us.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    November 16, 2013

    @Spirited, As Salaamu Alaikum

    I don’t think any group of people should blame another for their condition and circumstance. Pakistan shouldn’t blame India, the same as countries in the East shouldn’t blame the West. Heck, people in the West aren’t throwing acid in the faces of women or preventing women from having an education, or imprisoning women or stoning them when they’ve been raped and report the rape or abuse – crazy stuff like that. If people in the East sees free, liberal sex taking place in the West, it doesn’t mean they have to indulge in it too. Maybe they’d be right, if they said “The devil made me do it”.

    The condition of people is due to their dark, diseased hearts. It’s not the countries fault, it’s the fault of the people in the countries. In some places in India, women are set on fire. Allah says He will not change the condition of people until they change what in their hearts.

    Muslims are killing Muslims. Muslims are killing non-Muslims. Muslims are killing themselves (blowing themselves up). What’s up with that? Everyone has to start taking responsibility for themselves. Some Muslims think they are special simply because they are “Muslims” Really?

    Some Muslims only embrace the part of the Quran that says a man can have more than one wife and the wives have to be obedient to them. It’s all they know of the Quran. Sigh.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Gail

    November 16, 2013

    Jenny,
    Just to let u know the older woman in the family rarely if ever cook that responsibility is left to the younger woman in the home.I am not certain if u were aware of that.In my family my mother inlaw never cooks and everyone has their own chores.Like one girl will be in charge of the cooking and another will be in charge of washing dishes and yet another to make roti.The woman do not work outside so the home is their work.As far as your excowife your right she would be used to being catered to for the most part.It is not her fault that is just the way it is from what I have seen.My mother inlaw is responsible to get money in the home so pretty much everyone has a job to do.
    If your excowife saw what all you were doing she would be just as shocked at you as u are of her.lol
    I doubt your excowife would want to live polygamy so I think u are on pretty safe ground I would assume but as time goes on you and her might become pretty close and she might become attached to your children as well I am curious I know u have been so busy but I wonder what will happen to her after the kids are grown and you mother inlaw has passed away but all that is way down the road in the future.I am really happy to hear everything is going great for you.
    Please come chat when u have time I miss you.

  • ana

    November 16, 2013

    Only a few people respect Allah’s prophets (peace & blessing of Allah be upon them.) Most Muslims today only recognize the Prophet Muhammad (peace & blessings of Allah be upon him)as Allah’s prophet. Allah loves all His Prophets. They are mentioned through out the Quran. While Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was here on earth, Allah commanded the people to obey all His Prophets and they would be obeying Him. For instance, during Prophet Noah’s (pbuh)time Allah commanded the people to obey him and they would be obeying Allah. All of the prophets are special. I hope to meet them all in Paradise one day. It would be awesome!

  • Spirited

    November 16, 2013

    Salaam everyone!

    Good to see Jenny is still kickin’ it around happy

    @Gail, that sounds terrible sad I didn’t know anything about that since no family lives in that area of Pk. I hope your loved ones are safe.

    @Valuable Star, welcome and its nice to have you around. Your empathy is appreciated, but I would ask that you not paint such a picture of Pakistan’s state just on women. I’m not of Pakistani nationality, but my parents are from there, so I do feel a sense of belonging to the country as well. From what I have seen, read, heard and from speaking to people there, India is as much a cause for the turmoil in the country as Pakistan’s own bad leadership (India damming up water supply preventing life-giving water to areas that desperately need it, fighting over Kashmir — my mom’s family is Kashmiri, they do not consider themselves Indian — Indians sneaking into Pak to blow people up, etc.) So please, do not assume that the reason for Pakistan’s internal problems has much (if anything) to do with Pakistani men being responsible for pain caused to wives through polygamy. Men everywhere are cheaters (VERY rarely do they stay loyal to one woman) and Islam provides a way for men to not sin, that’s all there is to it. Based on my own experiences in Pakistan, and from seeing my female relatives, women are able to do whatever they want — get an education, work, go out and be with friends, etc. They are also respected and cared for (who wouldn’t like being escorted wherever you want to go, with someone to hold all your bags and such? lol).

    The way I see it is that you are highly unlikely to get a man who will not cheat. When you marry, if you never hear or see your husband having an affair or cheating on you, that doesn’t mean he does not. Just because you don’t see something doesn’t mean its not happening. The main problem many women here have is with the husband lying and breaking trust. Had the muslim man spoken with his wife before taking action, the situation would still be hard to swallow, but at least there wouldn’t be lies and secrecy and she would be able to come to terms with it easier (in my opinion).

    I hope I don’t sound mean, and I don’t mean any disrespect, but you shouldn’t be quick to judge an entire culture/country based on one difficult aspect. I have read news reports of some very demeaning things about Indians and how they treat women, but I have never been there and do not judge the country based on situations that I read about. In the same vein, I hope you can see that some women, such as Ana, Jenny, Ummof4 and Gail are doing quite well and have embraced polygamy — even so far as to say the experience has made them better people. Just because something is emotionally difficult doesn’t mean its not worth it happy

    And now for updates from me, nothing much going on so far. Husband says he has an appointment next week to check his liver (to see if there’s any long term damage or cancer). Insha’Allah, there won’t be anything bad. Hmmm what else… oh, my phone (a hand-me-down from my sister) is about ready to be put out of its misery sad. I haven’t had an actual “new” phone for 8 years or so because the prices are ridiculous and doing an “ugrade” through the phone company would force me to choose a new limited deal (right now, I have unlimited everything at a great price, and I’m not about to lose that!). I asked my husband if he knew anyone who was going to be getting a new phone and if they would give me their old phone, so let’s see. I’m thinking I should just buy one over craigslist or ebay.

    One of my friends said my husband should have offered to get a new phone or at least find a replacement himself, I replied that he’s Pakistani, and like most of those people, he doesn’t do anything romantic unless you ignore him or you’re not a part of his life. She was shaking her head but laughing at the same time. laughing Sad, but true, I’ve noticed that kind of behavior in alot of “desis” (Pak & Indians alike).

    Oh and here’s something that would only happen to me, lol. I felt like I broke my butt yesterday. My mom’s car has some really firm seats and I had to sit in it for 3 hrs, then sit on a wood seat for 4 hrs., then ride back home on the same car for 3 hrs. When we got home, you can imagine the sad state of my behind laughing In closing, I leave you all with a joke one of my friends told me:
    “When a woman says ‘What?’ Its not because she didn’t hear you, she is giving you a chance to change what you said. If a main says ‘What?’ it means he wasn’t paying attention.”

    Talk to you ladies later!

  • Jenny

    November 16, 2013

    Hello All!

    I’m back in the office and have a bit to chat. My desk has a very angry pile {about 8 piles to be exact} that needs my attention, but I don’t complain about being busy. I know many business owners who are starving and would give anything to be busy. I am very thankful to G-d.

    @ Spirited,

    I wanted to chime in about the STDs. Believe me, I know all about that. My husband and I were married a little while and he kept breaking out below. Hubby has been to the doctor many times and the doctor {a Pakistani doctor} told him it was an allergy and gave him a cream. Finally I just got so sick of this allergy, I had him whip it out and I got a good look at it for myself. As a former nurse, I instantly realized it was herpes.

    The next day I had him in the doctors office getting us both tested for everything under the sun. Long story short, my husband had herpes, Hep B & C. I tested positive for herpes, but I was clear of hepatitis. I was very lucky with that because I am allergic to the vaccine. The one time I had the first shot must have protected me to some degree.

    My husband was so upset that he made me sick. When we got in the car he just grabbed the steering wheel of the car and just cried his eyes out that he caused me to get sick too. For the first second I was really angry with him, but I know it wasn’t his fault. I’ve seen myself he’s been to the doctor many times. Then the realization hit me, I never had to worry about my husband’s fidelity. One misconception is that people think condoms totally protect someone from herpes, but it doesn’t. Due to “sloughing” herpes can be spread even with a condom. Hubby had a brief relationship a couple of years before we met.

    Also, his liver has been damaged and had to go on Interferon therapy for four years. Hubby just started his third year. If your husband has to go through this treatment, which is grueling treatment, be prepared. It will suck all your husband’s energy and you must be careful when having sex. I thought I was pregnant as my period was waaaayyyy late. I was terrified because it literally could have been a disaster. If we had gotten pregnant naturally, our child could have had unbelievable birth defects. We’ve done IVF with success while he was on treatment and we will be doing it again in two months.

    There are times when my husband cannot physically get out of bed, he gets that sick from the treatment. The thing with the interferon is there is no guarantee that it will work, but it is the only hope for remission, NOT CURE.

    These monstrous diseases have brought me and my husband closer in ways that could not be imagined.

    Yet, we still pay. My husband cannot take the Valtrex because it affects his liver. I cannot take it because it gives me the worst explosive gastric effects. So neither of us are on medication for it. I don’t break out often, but when I do, it comes in waves. The pain is so bad I sit with a bag of frozen peas between my legs.

    Have you been tested? What does the winner say about this?

    @ Gail,

    How have you been My Ice Cream Slinging Friend? Things are good here, just been slammed busy. The little cartoon Ana posted of me sitting at my desk is accurate if you speed it up ten times! happy

    The family is doing well. My nephew will be coming soon and we made a decision to bring Ibi over. We are doing his paperwork {again}, but this time following through. Ibi was excited when I told him we have a cricket league here as he loves playing cricket. R and I have spoken a few times. I really do feel sorry for her, but I still cannot get over that some of the issues she has were here own doing. One thing I hear that really annoys me is that my daughter does all the cooking. All the cooking. Her mother does no cooking at all. It annoys me that her own mother treats her like domestic help, but I keep my mouth shut and doing her papers too. Now that I think about it, all three of them are coming.

    The cousin is nice, but all she does is sit on the couch. Sorry, but when you have children, you can’t just sit on a couch. I’ve kept my mouth shut in the interest of peace. I have no problems with her and when we are talking she runs to the iPad to say hello to me and I can tell she is genuine and I am the same way to her. When I say this, I don’t mean any disrespect, but I view her as another child. While she is so much younger than me, she looks 10 years older than me. I realize that one cannot teach what they themselves do not know.

    I have to stay right in with the kids. When you have teenagers, someone needs to stay square in the middle of their sh*t all the time. Hormonal teenage boys need to have someone to talk to and I know they aren’t going to talk to their father and their mother is also out of the question. I said okay to a dog, overriding my husband. Ibi was sneaking off to the cinema yesterday. I knew this for weeks and could not see the harm in what he was doing. He has someone he can talk to that isn’t going to judge him and I can steer him away from making mistakes

    We had a long discussion about cousin marriages. He thanks me for being kind to his mother, but he asked why things happened this way and how will it be for him. He has no interest in marrying a cousin and told me there is a girl he is interested in, but his father would never allow it. I explained this was how things worked when his father was a young man and he listened to his mother, but the reality is when you marry, your make a family to have to enjoy, not just bring into the world. He understood.

    I do feel for R and will do what I can to make her life better. Truly I believe she got the bum end of the deal. All decisions for her life were made by people other than her, and I can’t imagine how horrible that must be. Now I am the one who makes her decisions. I feel so bad for her, but she is happy with her life, so who am I to criticize? We do share laughs and she knows I am not the enemy. From what I see, she isn’t harboring any resentment. She does know that I genuinely love her children and concerned for their best interest and will take good care of them and even more, I want good things for her.

    I do feel comfortable going to Pakistan without my Life Straw and fairly confident the Taliban doesn’t know a Jew will be visiting.

    One thing does leave me a bit confused. I don’t know what R expects from me. Does she think she will be a wife again? While I don’t mind living a big happy family, I will not live polygamy. That is totally out of the question for many reasons, but I don’t think she is thinking that either. My feeling is I think everyone is happy they are in our lives. Last weekend we had a group Skype chat and my mother-in-law made me get on the screen while every one was there and told everyone there they are to listen to me and do as I say. She knows I love the kids and will not let any harm come to anyone, even R. So, that’s where I’m at.

    Got to get some work done. I’ll be back later, Valuable Star, I haven’t forgotten about you! Hello by the way! I’ll be back later and tell you my story.

  • ana

    November 16, 2013

    @Gail,

    What is happening there is not mind blowing to me. It is to be expected. No one reads the Quran. Everyone wants to associate something else along with the Quran, thinking the Quran can’t stand alone. They insinuate that Allah needs help and the Quran is not sufficient. Nobody listens to Allah. They divide the religion into sects, which Allah tells us not to do. We are one Brotherhood. But, no one listens. Everyone want to say they are a Sunni, Shia, Kurd, Salafi or whatever else they can come up with. Everyone defiies Allah,so what do anyone expect? The entire Muslim world is jacked up!

  • Gail

    November 16, 2013

    Jenny,
    I am happy to seen u posted.Are you keeping up with the Shia and SUnni violence in Pindi?My father inlaw is leaving in the morning on a flight back to Pindi.We have no idea how that is going to work out since the entire city is on kerfew.The city is in Chaos it is so crazy.I hate Muharam as it is always a huge huge tension there every single time never knowing if violence will break out or not.This time it is so bad that my husband is saying they some Sunni’s shot some Shia’s and then the Shia’s burned a Sunni Mosque and killed alot of children inside the Mosque.It is Neighbor against Neighbor.I really don’t know how this is going to play out because my husbands family is one of three Shia families in our area if u can imagine.It is very disturbing.That country is sooo strange in the fact that if u go to anyones home they will treat u so very good but let u have an opposing opinion different than the majority it is off with your head.Really it is mind blowing to me.

  • Jenny

    November 16, 2013

    Hello Everyone!

    I’m here! I haven’t gone anywhere! You wouldn’t imagine how crazy busy I’ve been! My husbands desk is about 3 feet from mine and we don’t see each other all day unless he’s handing me a fax or something I left in the copier!

    I bought the building next door to us and I plan on moving the leasing company over there. I am so excited that we will, at last, have a conference room! The insurance has taken off like you would not believe! It’s now exactly a month and I’ve already made a tremendous profit, thank g-d!

    My husband and I actually got to play hooky for a few hours last night. We went to see a Broadway show, First Date. I laughed so hard, I cried through the whole thing. Another couple went with us and went for dinner after. It was a beautiful night. Hubby and I held hands the whole night. happy

    Everything with the family overseas is great. I’ve been helping my nephew study for his TOFEL test via Skype. We all talk twice a day and can stay on Skype for many hours. R pops on and says hello and is genuine towards me. No more problems, thank G-d.

    I’m in bed now (hubby is in the office already) and I got to get there. It is much easier typing on my desk top than an iPad. I’ll be back to post when I get to the office.

    Love you gals!

  • Laila

    November 16, 2013

    Dear Ana, just checked out the link posted. Very good read winking tq. Forwarded the link to my Muslim friends to share.

  • Laila

    November 16, 2013

    Dear Ana and Gail and all my sisters on this blog, just got home from my Masters class….ugggg feeling ao mentally drained! winking yes, the people we meet up in our lives sometimes some of them leave such a profound effect. Some motivate us, some remind us of our abilities and who we are even when the world and our husband even doubt us. I can’t have that Gail. We both have made a pact to never call or communicate so as to respect my husband, and marriage. But I know deep down he will always be there for me. That’s why till today I still have his mobile number in my handphone, yet I never have dialed that number for years. Sometimes when I look at the name, I’m wondering whether he’s okay. Even though my husband hurt me in many ways, I accepted him back and decided to focus fully on my marriage and shift my priorities towards building up a family. I really resonated well to the word u used, ‘cheerleader’. He’s my cheerleader. He always seethe best in me, motivates me and reminds me that I’ve got a superb personality, so much so that when he tells me to change some of my weaknesses, I do it so willingly and easily. Sometimes some are blessed with lifelong and good friends. I’ve not been so lucky in that department. But I’m happy and ever grateful for what I have even when sometimes I have my days of meltdowns. I’m beginning to change my beliefs and perceptions and be more positive and somehow mpthe burden feels lighter on my shoulders. happy I’m discovering my religion and realizing that Allah s.w.t. Was there all along. It was ME who was blind, deaf and dumb. I’m not saying life is all rosy. But I’ve calmed down a lot, and I finally feel so comfortable in my own skin. I feel me….. I feel like this is where I belong, I’ve found my purpose, and I must move along, focus and work hard in all aspects of my life. Along the way, I do throw in a few prayers for Mr. E…. Sometimes I’m so quiet and I am all over and my husband will say in a sarcastic but in some ways loving manner, ‘Don’t miss E so much, he probably is having fun out there!’…. Maybe he is, but then again, he reminded me at the lowest point in my life, that I’m worth fighting for. That every woman out there is unique and beautiful in their own way…. just sharing ladies….

    Yes Ana, my husband has put me through a lot winking but I’ve also matured and grown stronger in just so many many ways. That I’m now untouchable. He can’t rattle my chains anymore. Yes sometimes he drives me up the wall, but he can’t touch me on the inner most private part in my soul. He knows that. And now he knows not to play games with me. He knows these boots were made to walk! Hehehehe….. Try asking for a divorce the next time, he’ll really have one! winking

    Salam.

  • Gail

    November 15, 2013

    Laila,
    I am happy u shared about your first love.It is amazing how people come into our lives.I know for me I understand now that my first love was not just some random thing that happened.I know that even today 30 yrs later that I can pick up the phone or leave him a msg and he would be there for me.I now understand the connections we make some will stay with us forever.I kept him hidden deep within my inner most being for 30 yrs until last year but after reconnecting with him I now understand it is ok to have that connection and not feel bad about it and even embrace it.I am thankful to have a true friend like him that never forgot me.It means alot to have true friends like that in your life.

  • ana

    November 15, 2013

    I previously posted a link to a post that addresses depression and stress as it pertains to Islam. I will post it again in case any of you missed it, and would like to read it.

    The link is: http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_56.html

    The problem with having so much material on this site is the inability to find things easily. Having a “Search” on the blog doesn’t work due to the voluminous amount of material here. The “search” option ends up going crazy and crashes the site, so it’s better not to have one.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    November 15, 2013

    @Gail,

    I’m glad you’re going to share with your husband that which Valuable Star wrote. Perhaps he will better understand what has happened. I hope so, anyhow. It has help me consider the inner turmoil your ex-co must feel. sad I still believe when one plots evil they get it back.

    @Laila,

    I had no idea you went through so much pain and anguish. I know you must have felt used and abused when your husband left you the one time. I’m beginning to realize it doesn’t matter in what sequenced we married our husbands, living in a polygamous marriage is no walk in the park or picnic for any of us. After all, who would consciously choose this lifestyle, other than one who grew up in it such as those of other religions, for instance, Mormons who are more accepting of it and embrace it – everyone living as a family, helping and supporting one another. It seems most Muslim women simply find themselves in it.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Gail

    November 15, 2013

    Lili,
    I have always felt like she is my mirror.When I see my excowife I see myself.I am truly the only person that understands her exact pain because it is also my exact pain.It’s strange because although we are different ages,races,cultures,speak different languages etc…all the things we don’t share is nothing in comparison to the things that we do share.

  • Valuable star

    November 15, 2013

    @ Gail

    Thank you so much for your kind words and Birthday wishes!!

  • Valuable star

    November 15, 2013

    @ Ana

    Thank you so much for your kind words and birthday wishes!!
    Yes now I am 20(very sure about it).
    Actually I have immensely participated in various competitions and have even won many times at different levels for speeches, debates, extempores, writing stories, articles……
    Also I am very reserved by nature so very inclined towards reading books mostly about life, spirituality, Human psychology……

    @ Lily
    I am so glad to meet you and have you here!!

    No I am not doing a research. I am in an international university, far away from home and reside in hostel with people of all religions, castes, and of many countries.I was chosen to present Peoples views on “Different aspects of major religions” and then granted few more topics about religions. So to make my presentation as perfect as it could be and also my habit of giving 200% attempt on everything I explored about polygamy too!

    I cannot choose polygamy for research also because I am very emotional( in contrast with my personality) and have always cried so much feeling pain in the stories, no sleep many times and thinking about it even on unconscious level….

    I must say many stories and challenges that people very subjected to were totally out of reach in imagination for even best directors and story writers and many husbands acted far better than even oscar winning actors!!

    But before being introduced to POLYGAMY I never ever thought pain like this also exists!!!

  • Gail

    November 15, 2013

    Ana,
    Thanks to email Jenny.

    Valuable Star,
    I forgot to wish you a very Happy Birthday! I also wanted you to know I am going to actually use your post to talk to my husband and make certain we should not try to reach out to her one more time as a couple instead of just me.I am very interested to see what his thoughts are after reading your post.You really do have a beautiful way of expressing your thoughts and putting them on paper.

  • Gail

    November 15, 2013

    Valuable Star,
    Your summary of my life was amazingly accurate.I have been struggling to hold on to the peace I have about maybe my family will work out after all.The only thing is we offered her to work it out but when I told her straight we would not financially support her parents she did a complete about face on us and said that her parents wouldn’t agree to her coming back meaning either give them monthly allowance or kiss off.However Strangely she called in February and asked husband with her mother in the background What about her?He told her what about you we are divorced ask your mother she knows better for you and you are her problem not mine.I did not know all that had transpired as my husband has a big mouth and never tells me till after the fact then I blow up on him.I have been double minded lately if I need to continue to try to reach out to her again because her father died a month ago and her mother is blaming my husband and inlaws that her the old man was in tension from our side.I might add my husbands sister is married to my excowife brother in a cross marriage which involves children.It is a complete lack of passion on everyone part it seems to me.My father inlaw is leaving Sunday back for Pakistan and will file for my sister inlaw divorce.I am very disturbed by this because this will make her second divorce.
    I am trying to convince them not to run for divorce but she has been separated 2 years already.

  • Lili

    November 15, 2013

    @Valuable Star, it’s so nice to have someone so close to my age on here happy So you’re doing research on polygamy? That’s very interesting.

    @Gail, that’s such a difficult situation. You were both lied to and have had to deal with the consequences of someone else’s intent to deceive. I can’t even imagine.

    @Ana, I think that’s a byproduct of so much research and listening to other people’s stories. If you’re receptive to the advice and experiences of other people, it helps you grow as a person.

  • ana

    November 15, 2013

    @Valuable Star,

    No need to apologize for anything. I must say; I am blown away by what you wrote. It was upsetting and made me teary eyed to read what Gail’s ex-co-wife must have experienced, and I’m sure she’s experiencing some residual effects. What you described is HEAVY, figuratively and literally. Thank you for sharing your views on the matter. It was very enlightening and heartwrenching.

    I wish you a happy birthday for tomorrow. Are you sure you are only almost 20 thinking From your writing, it sounds you have lived years of life and become quite wise. I don’t know about you and Lili. You both are very much different than the average young person that I know of today.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    November 15, 2013

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Peace to All,

    I’m hopeful all will have a wonderful weekend or at least make their intend to cherish each moment, and be grateful for more time alive on earth happy

    @Gail,

    I just emailed Jenny, and asked her to stop in and say hello, even if she doesn’t have time to write much right now. I know she is crazy busy Paper Work So, Insha Allah, we’ll hear from her soon happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Laila

    November 15, 2013

    I understood as I was making my bed that he may be out of my life right now, but that doesn’t mean I can’t remember the good old days. happy that will never be erased from my mind ever. He’s my soul mate that never made it to the alter. Till today out of respect, he never calls me or send me text messages, but I know and feel that sometimes, he misses me and thinks of me. I saw him once when he was in town. I was out of a restaurant receiving a call and his car was parked right across. He got a bit stunned looking at me but he just smiled, waved and got into his car and got along. I knew what that meant…. What a coincidence. Gail, life is full of mysteries. Sometimes when you think you have it all sorted and organized, sometimes your chips just crumble and you’re out of your comfort zone and you ask so many questions…. I like my latest wake up call. It’s made me stronger in so many ways I can’t even express. But I love myself more and I value my self not to be taken for granted by not just my hubby, but by anyone. Life’s too short to shortchange ourselves.

    Just sharing with u Gail and all the other sisters here winking

  • Gail

    November 15, 2013

    Ana,
    I hope Jenny checks in soon I am really missing her.I am on pins and needles wondering how her family life is going.Like I have stated before I am so much JEALOUS of her in a GOOD WAY of course!While I am so happy for Jenny and her recent success with her excowife and inlaws at the same time I am saddened by my own excowife and this crazy family feud.I am hoping she stays with the blog in so many ways I need Jenny since are circumstances are pretty close to identical.It is so strange and funny looking back how Jenny lashed out at me about cousin IT and now I am going through my own cousin IT issues now that the smoke has cleared.I am amazed beyond belief her whole entire family unit is coming together and I this huge cheerleader for preserve the family unit am sitting on the sidelines watching Jenny thinking WTF. Really I am scratching my head on this one.lol

  • Laila

    November 15, 2013

    U said u went through your light bulb moment…. I went through it just the other day as I was making the bed in the morning…. He used to call me ‘Bella’….. And the last time I ever saw him, he told me this exact words, ‘ciaow Bella, smile your beautiful smile to the world, take care of yourself you passionate and fierce woman! love you always!’….. That’s was the toughest thing I ever heard. We both knew we loved each other, but we were never meant to be husband and wife. He reminded me at the lowest point of my life that I’m not a useless woman. I’m beautiful, I’ve got talents, I’m hardworking and also a go getter, and that I’m very passionate and fierce…. And that I am beautiful inside and out….. My husband isn’t good with words. He’s very very practical. But he’s a good man in his own way…. We all make mistakes. We all learn, and we seek to be forgiven. People come in our to teach us something. To tell us in an indirect manner that we aren’t losers. We mean something to ourselves. Maybe the situation made us look like losers, but we are far more valuable in every sense. Mr. E is an avid reader, and that I found so sexy about him. My husband doesn’t even pick a book up to read, he loves cars! winking what a contrast…. Till today I pray for Mr. E’s health, and wealth and to protect him wherever he may be. Word got to me that he’s not married till today. Only he and I understand why. We had so much to share and chat…. He connected with me in so many levels, and. I value that. Sometimes people need to be reminded that they’ve got a diamond in their their treasure box. Once in a while, when u don’t clean and do the necessary, even the shine from that diamond can fade.

  • Laila

    November 15, 2013

    I just sorted myself out and said okay. Went back to class and when school ended, went home and cried till my eyes swelled up and I really felt like the world was such a difficult place to be in. I contemplated suicide. I started cutting myself up at my things and stuff. Not proud of it….. Then my best buddy ahem is very very dear to me, but we’ve lost contact as she’s gone overseas now to run from her ex who’s suing her… Told me to get a grip and move on. That night we went out for dinner and to club. I wasn’t into it. My heart was not in it’s place. I met him that night, Mr. E….. He was smitten with me, we got talking and we exchanged phone numbers and suddenly after being straight with him about my situation, he made it his job to cheer me up. We met up for dinners, had good food, wine, and just talked…. That’s when he asked me to marry him. I was so shocked! He told me that he’s the time that doesn’t like to waste time and wanted to tie the knot as he knew what aortic person I am. He said that he always wanted a wife that could travel with him on his work trips.he’s a businessman. I was so shocked that I took my time to decide. During that time my husband came back to me, but I was ready to move on. My logic was, this man loves me and doesn’t want to waste my time, and he’s sincere. He wants to be legally my husband! …. Long story short… My husband won but it was a tough fight for him as my new guy was very very protective of me and he’s also got a huge competitive streak.

  • Valuable star

    November 15, 2013

    Hello!
    I admit my approach to this blog was very wrong as I went straight away exploring other’s life without even giving basic information about myself. Please accept my sincere apology for that part. And it wasn’t my inquiry but a humble request…..

    About myself-
    I am a girl and tomorrow is my 20th birthday. I am currently a student, belonging to HINDUISM and INDIA. I stumbled across a blog on polygamy while preparing a presentation on few aspects of Religions but basically polygamy has got nothing to do with me.
    There I came to know many new aspects of life, love and relationships as earlier I believed loved ones could never be the one to hurt you and pain like this also exists and you cannot do otherwise….

    Hie there Gail!!
    Thank you so much for taking my request so seriously, it meant a lot to me!!

    I must say you are an incredibly unique creature of God and I am sorry you have to go through all this once again for me, I really admire your strength, keen desire to do justice at any cost and every condition but quiet shocked that a lady like you went through all this, as you lived in pakistan even after knowing basis of your marriage are just lies and deception, how awful it would have been to be lied again and again at the same time not even understanding the language they are using!!

    But about Your Husband’s #1 wife, I cannot help it but say what a victim life has made her never giving the opportunity to even struggle! your Husband used her as per his wishes, in-laws used her as a maid and now parents want to use her as their source of income!
    I can understand your feelings for her but you can truly imagine what kind of pain it would be when a Husband forces you to deny from the fact that you are his wife and then even mother of his children,being called upon to say the person you loved most never ever loved you, when she was scared in front of you even then you can understand what kind of treatment she might be getting individually. Ofcouse it was irrational on her part as she treated the children differently and lied to you but you can understand the pain to see your loved one being extremely affectionate to someone else & even scolding you for showing your affection, fulfilling all your desires and even ignoring her needs and that too without any remorse or resentment so this was all she could do on account of all that has been done to her, and even a saint would explode after going through all this torture and it would have been impossible on her part to trust you when with whom she had blood relation have betrayed her so badly and you two were meant for the same position!!

    So your Husband basically when she trusted him blindly and his words even though his actions were showing quiet the opposite, firstly betrayed her as a husband, then as a father of her children and than as a Human being. After abusing her physically, emotionally and psycologically he rejected her just because she proved herself a successful student of his Institution of lies and deception!! I truly can’t understand how he has the nerve to reject her for being a liar after asking her to become one? how can he even utter that she lost her trust after what all he did with her and never gave anyone even a simple excuse to trust him and continued to live his life without any guilt and is justified because she is poor despite the fact he made her even poorer in all aspects and exploited her in worst possible way when he was the one meant to protect her feelings!!
    And how unfair it is that person like him got an opportunity after getting best of both the worlds to treat you both as options!!

    I also wonder how even elderly people of family could let all this happen to both of you and upto this extent??
    You undoubtedly deserve a lot lot more but deep inside you also must be knowing that all your happiness is at the cost of someone’s tears and its truly very thoughtful and generous on your part to make an attempt to provide children all that they deserve…

    If this is the position of women in pakistan then Its no more a wonder why is it lagging far behind in all aspects of development because standard of women not only decides the present standards of society but also determines the future!!

    I wish you all the very best and all the happiness in the world……
    thanks and much love….
    warm regards

  • Laila

    November 15, 2013

    Dear Gail after reading all that you’ve posted I’m simply amazed at the courage uve got. Not many women out there have that. Or I feel it’s still lays dormant in them. I just about a few years back, be specific about four years back feel that I’ve given it my all. I’m they type that always puts my husband needs first and his feelings and all. Somehow along this process, I didn’t get what I’ve invested. Relationships can be so tricky. When u said the word cheerleader u reminded me of someone that I truly felt and still feel is my soul mate. When my co-wife found out about me, she did so much and at one point before we got married he just dropped me like a hit brick. Because his close friend that by the way behaves so genuine with me ( hypocrite ) told him that polygamy is like cutting up ones skin n dabbing salt into it. He left me…… I was devastated and just broken. He broke up with me on the handphone while I was at work. he couldn’t even say to me directly that he wanted to break up. He just went cold on me. By then we had been sharing some things financially and he said he would pay it up for me. I was so sad, insulted, angry, felt cheated, felt stupid, felt so used, and felt useless. I cried and asked him a simple question, ‘will we meet again?’, and he said, he wasn’t sure.

  • Gail

    November 15, 2013

    Lili,

    I forgot to mention after my husband seen my first love was having such a profound effect on me he did a complete turn around with me.My husband went from being selfish and not caring about me to seeing me in a whole new light.He had thought our entire marriage that he was my first love.When I told him no that was not so and I have deeply deeply loved another all my life but buried my emotions and went on with my life he was beyond shocked.I will be honest it broke him and it triggered something in him that made him want to fight for our marriage.
    I will tell you my first love never married and as far as I know I am the only woman he has really ever wanted to marry enough to actually be excited enough to ask and my husband knows all this.
    My husband learned a huge life lesson to not take others for granted because you might just at the end of the day be left alone.It really was a huge wake up call for him.

  • Gail

    November 15, 2013

    Lili,
    For certain polygamy in any circumstances is very very hard and emotionally draining but when you are faced with it in such a disrespectful way by the people you think love and care for u the most your husband and in my case also my husbands first wife since I had adopted and was raising her biological children.I know when the truth did come out I was like a china doll that had been thrown to the ground and busted into a thousand pieces and was left to figure out myself how I put myself back together.My husband was of little to no use because he was telling to just move on with my life and find someone else after we came back from Pakistan so that is exactly what happened I moved on and reconnected with my first love.We chatted on the phone for months he was calling me daily up to 10 times a day and little by little my first love reminded me that I was still me and I am pretty darn amazing.As I am writing you this post I just figured out why G.D brought my first love back to me.I understand now for the first time in my life him and I have this connection of being each others biggest fans or cheerleaders.I think everyone needs a cheerleader in their life.Someone to remind you when u are feeling broken just how great you truly are.I am going to start being more thankful and reach out and be a better cheerleader for others in my life.This is like a light bulb gone off in my head I am like wow how amazing.I have to think on this now as I feel I have just at this moment had some kind of spiritual breakthrough.

  • Lili

    November 15, 2013

    @Gail, wow I did not know this about you. I admire how you tried to make your polygamous marriage work for your co-wife. Even if you did take it back a few times, it’s a struggle to wish better for your sister wives when polygamy is thrust upon you, and I think it was really decent of you. happy

    @Laila, thank you for your concern. I really do feel better knowing that y’all are thinking of me, and I update you on everything. I’m going to be very cautious and try not to let my excitement overcome me. God knows, I can be overzealous when I imagine the good in things, so much that I can ignore the bad.
    I want to be extra cautious because I have been told that their second wife-to-be is protective and wary of anyone wanting to come into the family, and I have taken that to mean that I have to be sensitive and completely open with her. The last thing I want to do is hurt anybody’s feelings.

  • Gail

    November 14, 2013

    Ana,
    Thank you by G.D grace I have come a very long way but I know I still have a journey ahead of me.
    I still struggle at times and something about Besma post really stirred my emotions the other day.
    My excowife is back at my inlaws home upstairs at my husbands grandfathers home.I have thought to call her and hubby has asked me because I have asked about her so much but he told me not to involve him with her because he don’t want to deal with her.I am just doubleminded and kinda leaving it alone since she is not calling herself.The longer we are all not talking the more we are distancing ourselves from her it seems.Part of me is really sad about that because I had hoped we were going to work out but hubby has let me know he just feels free of her and that family and he has zero intentions to mix up with them again.I don’t know what will happen in the future as far as visitation with the kids because hubby has not intentions of reaching out to her and I am just taking a breather to not worry 24/7 about her and concentrate on myself and my real estate business.

  • Laila

    November 14, 2013

    Dear Lili, I’m happy that use sort of found a family with which u can live together and all that. However, I would advise u to be cautious and KNOW what exactly you’re getting yourself involved in. I’m not in any manner discouraging you. But then again, I want you to enter this matrimony with ur eyes wide open and know what are your right and what’s the rotation with everyone like way beforehand. You’re 19 and I feel ure way mature for your age which is good. But then again, being a bit cautious won’t be a disadvantage either. After a lot of find out certain things on the net and reading, I’ve very very gung ho about a woman waiving off her rights. Please if there’s progress with this family, discuss what’s the role you play and what’s expected of you. Because other than love and commitment I also am of the solid belief that we MUST respect our co-wives. In my case I may not like her personally but after reading some shocking stuff ( for my level ) I’ve done a bit of soul searching, and I sternly believe every woman married to the same husband must be treated respectfully and we must also in soma manner exercise a bit of understanding and empathy. I’m saying all this to u because I want u to be happy and also to make ur presence felt like a gift rather than a burden to the other family members. That’s my stand on the matter. I pray all goes well with u, and do update us af often as ure able to. God bless.

  • ana

    November 14, 2013

    Valuable star,

    Thank you for joining us. It’s nice to have you here. Perhaps you could share a bit about yourself, as well. As for our dear Jenny, I imagine she is way busy right about now. She didn’t leave the blog. She has a lot going on. She’s operating businesses, and taking care of her families; so I imagine she’s swamped right about now. I’m hopeful she will check in sooner than later. When she returns and if she doesn’t read you, Insha Allah, we’ll let her know of your inquiry.

    @Gail,

    I’m so glad you wrote your story again. It was like reading a very good novel. I got lost in it. You had me cracking up in laughter too, a couple times. I had to pull myself together, as I know your story is way serious and you endured a lot. You came out a strong, amazing woman, though.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Gail

    November 14, 2013

    Valuable star,
    I forgot to mention that my cowife is now 30 I am 42 and their is 12 years between us.My husband is 41 .Hope this helps I remembered you asked about are ages.

  • Gail

    November 14, 2013

    Valuable Star,

    Welcome to the blog I am Gail and I don’t mind at all explaining my story to you.I wil try to give you the short version.
    I am early 40s married to a Pakistani man also the same age in early 40s.We have been married for 10 yrs and have a total of 4 children.My oldest son is from my first marriage and 19 and out of the home so normally on the blog I refer to my 3 youngest children.
    I met my husband via internet chat 11 years ago I was going through my first divorce and I was not looking for anyone.We made friends chatted for about 1 year and he told me he was also going through a divorce and I had a son he had a son we had common ground also we are very close in age only 1 year apart.It seemed at the time he was awesome and I was naive and did not realize alot of things that I now do realize.
    After one year chatting via computer we decide to get together.I flew to Pakistan we got married and I lived in Pakistan with him for almost 2 years I started raising his 1 year old son.He told me he was divorced I had no reason to not believe him because embassy checks out all paper work and he had a legal Pakistani divorce.However he had come up with some scheme unknown to me with his first wife who at the time was pregnant with their daughter(again I was clueless and did not know the child was his)She was living with her parents in the village and I was lead to believe she had remarried.
    Skip ahead husband gets visa we come home to USA and start our life with his now 3 year old son and my now 10 yr old son and I am 6 months pregnant.We are happy really happy for the first 3 years or so I thought as I come to find out years later it was all an illusion as I will explain later.
    Now we are 3 year into our marriage and his 1st wife comes on cam during my husbands sister wedding and I ask my husband ohhhh your 1st wife is at your sisters wedding?He replied yeah I guess so and she comes to the cam and sits down and starts chatting away with my husband all smiles and happy in Punjabi and I am just sitting there my husband shows her the boys and I am just like kinda standing there like WTF and honestly kinda pissed off because she is at a family event to be honest.Anyway my husband says to me she also has a new baby.I said oh ok and she tells us to wait she will go get the baby.She comes back and she does not bring a baby but a 3 year old child.I immediately look at my husband and say that is not a baby that is a small child.Then he says she is saying the little girl looks exactly like her and his son.Again I am like WTF is this and I blurted out that child looks nothing like either boys then I started laughing because in all honesty at the time I thought she had lost her brain.I asked where is her husband and my husband said he was in the village and did not come.Obviously after I witnessed all this I start thinking something is not right here.(I should mention at this point my career field was OBGYN Womans Health ) So i could add up pretty much right to the day when a child was conceived.It was my dumb luck or there bad luck but the JIG was up I figured out the child was my husbands and I confronted him about it and of course he denied denied denied.I started to become mentally and physically ill because my husband seemed like the perfect man.I knew the facts but I could not understand how he could be so amazing with me and have this child.So I told him straight I am going to Pakistan to get to the bottom of this mess.I bought tickets and flew us all to Pakistan and same as hubby she denied the child was my husbands.I finally told her ok fine I am going to ask u one last time and your word will be final and I will not ask u again but remember this if u tell me the truth I will help u but if u lie to me then let it be on your head what happens to you because I am not a saint that I will forgive you after this so think before you speak.I asked her one last time you are saying the child is not my husbands child correct?She then completely changed face and said Yes the child is insert my husbands name here.I was shocked and asked her like several more times and finally she said Gail the child is his.I took a deep breath and said OK.I will make him be responsible for the child.She got freak out and said she wants to go to her village right now.SO we took her to the village where my husband sat in the middle of both of us woman.I did not tell my husband she had told me she was very scared what husband would do now that the cat was out of the bag about the baby.I want to be clear she never told me the complete truth that she was also still living as his wife islamically.I had no idea.I thought in my mind that she was pregnant when they divorced and just did not tell my husband.I had no idea there was some elaborate scheme that he would get USA citizenship and divorce me.
    OK on this same exact trip she comes back from the village very angry and screaming at husband to divorce her she can’t live like this.What she really was doing was telling husband to pick between us that she can’t deal it and he said ok she can leave but he was keeping the children.She started screaming and said give her back her son.My husband was translating between us both and I start figuring out something is so not normal here when she started asking for the son I already adopted back.I told her hell no I adopted him legally she should have spoken up when I did the adoption and it is final and I am not giving the child back.She started screaming again and I asked my husband several times what is going on she is acting like a MAD woman.My father inlaw who happens to be her uncle walked in and told her to shut her mouth because she instantly calmed down.Then I called her to come sit beside me on a chair and she did I said why are you so angry and she said she was a kid that time only 20 and she did not know what she was doing she was just sobbing and looking at my husband who was sitting right next to me.Long story short she thought by her confessing the child was my husbands that either I would figure out they were still married(which I knew nothing of islamic marriages if you were legally divorced) or that husband would tell me the truth which neither thing happened.So she figured out he was not going to hold his end of the bargain and divorce me like she had been told and Polygamy was not ever to be part of the deal so she was having a mental breakdown right in front of me but I was oblivious to it because I myself did not know the truth.
    We leave Pakistan and I told her stay in Pindi at inlaws and live here and keep her daughter and enroll her in best schools and we will pay for it not a problem and I will go home file immigration on the child.She said NO I said YES and that is exactly what I did because I thought they were divorced and she told me that she had divorce her second husband for abusing her which was a complete lie because she was still islamically married to my husband.
    I want to point out that even though I didn’t know this was called polygamy I was living polygamy while in Pakistan with her.We all lived under the same roof and I got agree to the situation because we were there only a few months out of the year and I wanted her to have access to her son and us to the daughter.We lived together for the sake of the kids.They never were intimate together I need to point out until after husband told me the truth.
    Skip ahead again we are now 8 yrs into our marriage and I know now that something is just not right in my marriage so I am tired of the lies and I told my husband I am just done I will be seeking divorce and moving on with my son and he can have his 2 children I am done.He calls me at home and tells me to get dressed he is taking me out to eat and has something to tell me.I had no idea what it was but I knew it was not good.
    We eat and on the way home he confesses to me he was still Islamically married to his first wife.I became physically ill and it was not a pretty site.I cried and cried and had to keep a towel with me and cry into the towel so my children would not see me.I was broken inside.After a few days and the dust settled something inside of me said well now the truth is out so let me think on this.I start thinking well we have lived together and it was not a big deal I like her as a person.So I approached my husband and said ok I might be willing to think to not divorce you on this topic but I have to ask you some questions he said ok ask anything.I said how would this work if I decided to not divorce he said what do u mean I said well I can tell u right now I am not going to share you.He said OH don’t worry about that I have not touched her the entire time we have been married and even before are marriage after she got pregnant I did not not touch her so I will just tell her straight this is the way it is.I was shocked and said how is it possible she is so young and he said well she is living like this last 8 years.I start thinking and said ok listen I that not possible so long story short we came up with a plan that worked for us and cowife agreed and her and her family esp her dad because he talked to me on the phone said he was happy we were keeping his daughter.So we go back to Pakistan right after all this because his sister gets married and start living together again but this time when I saw her in person I became angry with her because she was lying about so many family issues and I became angry with my husband because he pulled me into her and his family problems between their parents and her brother and his sister.It became very nasty really fast.During this time my first husband went into a hypoglycemic coma and was dying.My 17 yr old son was living in USA with my first husband and I was scared to death my first husband would die before i could get back to be with my son and comfort him.Mentally I was at my worst and it was the worst time in my life.
    My husband told me 2 weeks after getting to Pakistan and being intimate with her he said he can not do it and he has told his parents he was going to islamically divorce her and they told him fine but do it after his sister marriage so cowife family would not screw up his sister marriage.He agreed I became very angry and told him send her back to the village and he said No he would not until after the wedding.I was livid and told him then I and the children will not be attending the wedding so don’t expect.Needless to say we are very both strong headed people and neither of us gave in.Her and her family went to the wedding and I and the children did not attend.I tell you why I did not attend I could not and would not disgrace myself and the children in that way.I felt it was a huge disgrace.To this day I have hard feelings towards him and his family and I think to myself I hope it was worth for because I will remember all my life this thing.I am over it but still the sting is there.
    I need to be clear my husband after the 9th day of being intimate with cowife he could not handle it to be physical with her.I tried to get him several times to forgive her for lying and just keep trying to make the polygamy marriage work and I told him straight yes I am angry but do not see my anger I am trying to do the G.DLY thing here.I am in a battle with myself I told him.
    I want to point out I was having a battle with myself one day I would tell him you pick between her or I and I mean it or I will go home and divorce your A$$ and take these kids.Then the next day I would say go get her and fix this problem.It went like this the entire time.I was a mental basket case.
    Finally he divorce her islamically and we flew home to USA.When we home I found Ana blog and I start learning about polygamy and I was not alone.I start figuring out I am not the only person in the world this has happened to.
    She was still calling and wanting to work on the marriage but after awhile she said her parents will not agree because I told her straight I am not supporting her parents financially.After that my husband and her had some on the phone fight and that was the end of it.She has not called back since feb.
    I hope this answers your questions if not then feel free to ask me.I am an open book.I stay with the blog in hopes that I can maybe help other woman going through the same experience to let them know HEY your not alone.

  • Valuable star

    November 14, 2013

    I also wanted to know Jenny’s story, is she no longer in this blog??

  • Valuable star

    November 14, 2013

    Hello everyone!!
    I just stumbled across this blog out of curiosity…
    @ Gail
    In few comments I have come to know about your story a bit but I wanted to know about it clearly.(may be somewhere you would have stated clearly which I didn’t find out) but please only if you don’t feel offended otherwise I won’t mind.
    So to me it seems you are a very rational and truly determined strong lady who married a pakistani man, you thought is single but later after 8 years of your marriage you came to know that he had a wife there too when you went to pakistan on his sister’s marriage. While returning back he divorced her but later in 2012( somewhere around) she came to US to live with you, right?
    so I wanted to know how long was he married to her before marrying you and also what are their ages ( i know yours)?? so now you are raising all his children and hers in us but you are planning to go to pakistan and spend rest of your life there?
    Also were you in polygamous marriage for sometime? Once you described of happy union but then you said her liar and Husband kicked her out but you insisted him to tahke her intimately but he refused…. so when it happened? when you went to pakistan or she came to US? was at that time he was married to her as well as they shared room or He divorced but continued to treat her as wife which you accepted peacefully but somewhere you described you forced him to divorce?
    I know it would be a mere waste of time for you bot I get to know something I can’t relax without knowing it fully. so please if it doesn’t troubles you please I really want a clear picture of your story??

  • Lili

    November 14, 2013

    Nope I was raised in a typical monogamous family. However, I did grow up surrounded by my many aunts, uncles, and cousins. My cousins have been bonus siblings for me. I believe that’s why I’m so taken with the idea beyond the religious grounds for practicing polygamy.

  • Spirited

    November 14, 2013

    Salaam & hello everyone!

    @Ana, that interview sounds cute! I’m curious to see what kind of questions the student comes up with. Insha’Allah, interviewing you will help clear up mis-information about polygamy in Islam happy

    @Laila, I’m so happy to hear that everything is working out much better now, you certainly seem much happier!

    @Gail, your icon changes alot, lol. Thanks again for worrying so much. I hope everything works out too. Sometimes it looks like it will be ok, sometimes it doesn’t. That’s just the way it is as humans, we have to keep the faith and do as good as we can with what we have. In the end, I guess that’s what matters most. I feel that as long as I do what is expected of me by the only entity in existence that really matters (God), my conscience is clear and I can handle whatever comes down the pipe. Life is hard enough, I don’t see any reason to be the cause of more hardship. That’s how I see it anyway. Maybe its stupid, sure I might get taken advantage of, but I don’t care. happy

    Anywho, that’s it for now, I have a few random errands to run happy Talk to you later!

  • Laila

    November 14, 2013

    Dear Lynette and Gail, yes finally I’ve got a proper ‘schedule’!!! winking I’m really feeling happy as I’ve see that things are getting way way organized. So, for the moment…. Bliss. By the way… I’m traveling for a short holiday to a neighboring country with my aunty for New Years Eve. Just to take a short break…. Told him of my plans…. He just put on a sad face and agreed. Now he’s told me that his plans to travel to Australia has been called off. His son is going to be busy studying and the he’s told his mum and dad that he’d prefer to come home instead, after Christmas. But hubby still plans to take his family for a short holiday to another country to spend time with his daughter and her. I’m okay with it happy because it’s organized and clear cut. Now…. He wants to join me and my aunt on the trip. I’m okay with it. I don’t want him to think I’m hiding anything…. He can get quite insecure at times. So that’s my update so far…..

    Jenny where are u girl? Work getting increased? ( hugs ) winking

    Salam….

  • Gail

    November 14, 2013

    Lili,
    I am curious since you are embracing polygamy so well did you happen to grow up in Polygamy by chance?

  • Lili

    November 13, 2013

    Thanks for your concern, ladies happy I’m glad to have your advice
    I admit that I’ve had some of the same concerns. I want to be valued as a person and a wife, and I want to have a long time with my husband and sister wives. It’s just a reality that an older man won’t be around as long, and his first wife is the same age as him.

    Still, I have been told that with their potential second wife, they have taken things very slow because she is just a few years older than I am. They want to be cautious as well, and I admire and appreciate that.
    They have taken an interest in getting to know me and my background. They were supportive when I mentioned my school and career aspirations. From the start, the husband got me in contact with his first wife and told me that he believes a happy home comes from wives who are happy together and that he wished for the two of us to get to know each other. I have been blown away by the sensitivity and care that is going into the possibility of courting me (because it’s just a possibility at this point) that I can’t help but feel excited for the prospect. To think that this is coming from a couple who has never lived in a polygamous marriage before, it makes me wonder how much better it will be when the reality comes around and the kinks are settled with everyone.

    I’m just excited! happy

  • Kim

    November 13, 2013

    I agree….I’d feel better if Lili were to find a younger couple. One of the girls I chat with from Centennial Park is young, in her mid or late 20s and her sister wife is 21 and just a doll. The hubby is in his late 20s I think. That to me is a much better situation for Lili. Idk if they are looking for another wife or not but I can say they are a wonderful young poly family happy

  • Gail

    November 13, 2013

    Lili,

    My advice is take it very slow and ask alot of questions.Don’t just jump so fast if you are only 19.I have to ask if you are 19 what on earth could u possibly see in a 40 year old man? I really can’t see a 19 yr old having much if anything other than sex in common with a 40 yr old man.You being so young and what if he hits 50 here in a few years and he has erectile issues.I’m just thinking out loud here.lol I know marriage has more than just sex but when I here of the vast age difference I will be honest that is the first thing that comes to my mind.I could wrap my head more around the thought of you being a third wife I guess if the man was younger however I do like the idea of living joint family in the same home.If you could get this setup with a younger family then I think it would be perfect.

  • Gail

    November 13, 2013

    Lynette,
    I am also really excited.It has been such a long time coming and I know it is something that must must be done.I hope all is going well for you.

  • Gail

    November 13, 2013

    Laila,
    I am really happy to know you will be getting your schedule.You need to celebrate with hubby.I think he is fixing to catch 9 kinds of hell from first wife but she will adjust.I will give u a heads up though he might be really crabby at first or distant with you if she does decide to start screaming at him but I feel u did the right thing and you need the same amount time esp. since you are going to try IVF.I am actually feeling really happy for you.Honestly after cowife gets used to a real schedule she you might find she takes up a hobby or starts to really like the schedule who knows but I do feel this was a long time coming for you so CELEBRATE!!!

  • Lynnette

    November 13, 2013

    As Salaamu Alaikum, and Peace to All,

    @Sister Laila,

    I am sooooooo thrilled that you now have a schedule big grin. Stand by it, and stand up for your marriage! :::woooooo hoooooo:::

    Now of course there are still challenges to be overcome, but Alhamdulillah, you are well on your way.

    @ Sister Lili,

    I know so little about LDS tenets, and I’m sorry to say that. But Sister, I can’t help but wonder about this. Everyone needs time to transition, and room to grow….even first and second wives. Does this couple support “you” as a person? What about your hopes and dreams for a future? Your studies? Any career plans you may have? How soon will you be expected to have kids of your own?

    You seem so level-headed, Lili, much more than I was at age 19. I know you’re praying; keep praying. Seek God first in everything…and He provides. Muslim, Jew, Christian….that answer is the same.

    @Sister Ana,

    MashAllah! I appreciate hearing from you about your High Schooler’s inquiry! May Alah (swt) guide you both as you speak of polygamy and Islam.

    @Sister Gail,

    I really like your plan to work next season, save and invest.

    @Sister Jenny,

    I hope you’re well, Sister. We miss you happy

  • Laila

    November 13, 2013

    Dear Gail, finally peace comes to my door step. He’s drawn up a fair and just schedule, and informed her of it. The way he argued and told me stuff, just to cover up my co-wife and her daughter just made me realize that this husband of mine deserves FACTS. I showed him all her text messages sent to me. Which I never showed in the past because I don’t want further complications, and I told him point blank. No proper rotation schedule, then sorry but I’ve got to refer this to the an imam that stays in our condo block. I even said I’m totally open to the three of us sitting somewhere quiet and nice and discuss matters like adults. He refused! I did the silent treatment and he finally gave in. This morning he hugged me. That’s his moron way of saying I’m sorry. But rotation now will be fair and organized. I’ve given a bit of leeway. If during celebrations, there’s an emergency, he can go to her side. But it’s got to be an emergency and after she’s called me and informed me. I know she can still take advantage so the calling part will stop her nonsense unless it’s REALLY an emergency. Tq Gail winking

  • Lili

    November 13, 2013

    Oh it’s all right happy

    To be honest, this hasn’t progressed very much. I don’t know too much about them. I just have this great feeling. Who knows if I’ll end up with them? I don’t even know why they want to live in polygamy.
    I know they want to live in a single home, which is my ideal situation, and we’d rotate days.
    Scheduling is the least of my concerns. I’ve always considered it the easiest part.

  • Gail

    November 12, 2013

    Ana,
    That is really exciting about the young girl doing a report on polygamy.I think it is really wonderful that you have the potential to put a positive spin on polygamy.I wonder if Polygamy will ever be accepted as an alternative lifestyle here in USA.

  • Gail

    November 12, 2013

    Lili,

    Have you really thought this through a 100%? I understand and accept the people are as awesome as apple pie but he hasn’t even taken a second wife and got that under his belt and somehow you think he can jump from 1 to 3 wives and manage all this.Holy Cow woman! Oh I have a million questions running through my mind.I am not against you being a third wife if you feel u can handle it but I am wondering things like are all the wives going to live in the same home or will u live in different homes? What kind of schedule would that look like? and all I keep thinking is what if this man and his first wife can’t handle this arrangement of 3 wives?I also wonder if your risk of getting a divorce is higher because if he can or the first wife can’t handle this arrangement then well chances are they would start backwards and that means you if they need to divorce.Also I am wondering why on earth would a man in this day and age need 3 or 4 wives logically speaking.I don’t mean to offend you at all I am just shocked I guess.

  • Lili

    November 12, 2013

    I’m glad to see that most of y’all are doing well.

    I’m excited, ladies. I’ve met a man who fits so many of my requirements for a husband. He has a first wife, who I’ve talked to already, and they have a woman already lined up to be their second. I’d be the third, if they liked me enough to court me. Right now we’re just emailing because they live a few hours from me, but I like them enough that I want to talk to them right away. The husband and first wife are in their early 40s, but I don’t mind the age difference in this case. !!!

  • ana

    November 12, 2013

    Ruqayya,

    Maybe I could do that. Let me see what the questions and answers are. Insha Allah, I will discuss it with the student, as well, and then make a determination. what you asked had crossed my mind, as well.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ruqayya

    November 12, 2013

    @Ana, would yu be able to share the questions and answers with us on the blog?

  • Gail

    November 12, 2013

    Spirited,
    I am very happy to know that your already have an idea of the what if’s should they occur with your husband.I am seriously worried about you at this point but I do find so much relief that you are very aware of everything and should he try to pull a fast one you will be prepared.I really hope that somehow everything is going to work out for your family and your cowife will come around but given the information u have given on the post I worry that there will end up being a winner and a looser in this mess.As much as I hate to see anything bad happen to you I also hate to see anything bad happen to your cowife and her baby as well.Somehow I have got caught up in your story.
    I am sorry to here about your husbands Hep B issues.Pakistan is so horrible for Hep B. I have one brother inlaw that has paid a huge amount of money for drugs to get the virus out of his system and I guess it worked because his blood test are now clear.I don’t understand this Medicine but maybe you or Jenny know about it.I don’t know if it is really a cure or not but my husband talks like it is.My husbands grandmother actually died from Hep C 11 yrs ago.Pakistan is a Meca for Hepatitis.

  • ana

    November 12, 2013

    I received a cute little email from a 12th grader. She wants to interview me for a school project. She chose polygamy, as the topic. I advised her that I couldn’t do Skype now, as I haven’t yet exposed my identity, but I’d answer her questions via email. She said she will prepare the questions, have her teacher review them, and will then send them to me to answer next week big grin

    I’ve turned down media interviews, such a BBC. I wasn’t feeling it at the time. I feel honored the young lady asked me to help her out. Just thought I’d share it with you. Good news.

    @Spirited,

    Your little fun shopping sprees and stories about you and your army cousin are cute too. big grin

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    November 12, 2013

    KA126, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    Dear sis, we weren’t implying you believed the remark that he made. I’m glad you let us know what’s being said out there. I responded the way I did because it makes my blood boil when I hear such nonsense. It had nothing to do with you. There is so much MISinformation out there and I totally understand why the Muslim’s state of affairs is as it is.

    I think you did good by forgiving your co. I totally believe in forgiveness. I don’t think it’s necessary to go to the person, and ask her or him to forgive me; although, there is nothing wrong with it. I’ve said it here sometime. I’ve said, so and so, please forgive me for x,y & z.

    What’s more important than anything is for me to ask Allah to forgive me. I ask Him to forgive other people as well. Allah’s forgiveness is the only forgiveness that matters to me. I don’t care whether someone else forgives me or not.

    I know some are of the belief one has to go to the person and ask him or her to forgive them. Not me. I humble myself to Allah. Allah swt says ask His forgiveness. He tells us of circumstances when we have to do something in particular when we’ve wronged someone. I haven’t read that He tells us to go get someone else forgiveness. But, whatever. To each his own.

    You’re correct though. It’s no use for us in getting worked up over a co. It’s what I think were all tying to work on not doing. I think it’s an ongoing battle. I may backslide somewhat, during my menses and give mine Alex’s other more time in my head than I should. At least, I know where it’s coming from when it happens LOL Life is too short for us to get caught up with someone else. We need to focus our attention on our good deeds, as you stated.

    @Spirited, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    Jenny’s husband has Hepatitis B, as well. She told us all about the treatment he undergoes. I understand Hepatitis is prevalent in Pakistan. It sounds your husband found solace in coming to you to speak about it. I could imagine he’s a bit frightened. I suppose it’s why he had asked you to make an appointment for him to have a checkup. He must have not been feeling well; I presume. I know you’ll take very good care of him. It’s good to hear you’re getting out and having some fun. Good for you! happy Alhumdulliah!

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Spirited

    November 12, 2013

    Salaam ladies~

    Hey there Gail big grin. I hear ya, but if he (or both of them) are playing games, let them have their fun. It’ll be temporary so long as they’re still alive, and they’ll be paid back for lies/deception/pain caused. As Ana says, “it’s all good” happy

    My husband says she knows he is with me, but either doesn’t want to believe it and is just living in denial as if she is an only wife, or is being sneaky and hoping to influence him to divorce me. So I think this is the point that needs to be cleared up (next month). That’s what he says, so time will tell, like you said. Plus, its not like I have a way to get in touch with her except through him, lol. (also, I was literally laughing out loud at the mental image of a burning co-wife with the other wife not even bothering to #1 on her. You are somethin’ else Gail, I swear, laughing )

    I also believe having a child was a strategic move on her part, because he wanted to wait since he was and is not able to sufficiently support it, and she has been living meagerly (as far as I can tell, which is another reason she wants to leave the country). My husband has said that there’s no way he will have another child with her right now. Maybe in the future, if she stays in the marriage without blackmail and threats and the like. I’m not sure how he could ever trust her again, but we will just see what happens, won’t we? happy

    The last thing you wrote about had me going “HMMMM”, but then I remembered how he has always been speaking more about keeping the baby (so she is raised muslim) and not so much about keeping her around. The question like you’ve wondered actually never came up because he always has said he would never divorce me legally OR Islamically (that’s why I actually said the “HMMMM” ). No one has actually ever asked the “what if” push comes to shove, what will he do. He already knows there is NO WAY I would ever agree to let him set it up in such a way to let him sponsor his 2nd wife, so that isn’t even a question — no chance of him convincing me to do that. If he even tries to play the “oh I have to because she’s threatening my baby” card, I’ve already told him he’s the one who made this mess, he’s the one who has to clean it up so he shouldn’t expect me to go out of my way to help him with any situations his 2nd wife is causing because it’s not my problem.

    Maybe I am being naive, like you are worried. But you know what, I’ve got a great support system here (on the blog), I’ve got my family, I’ve got a new goal, and Insha’Allah, will have my own baby(babies?) sooner or later. So even if he leaves, it doesn’t bother me. For my end, I always like to help people, never to be a burden, so I’ll continue to be who I am. If people take advantage of the way I am, so be it. I’m not going to go against my nature and who I am and stoop down to other peoples’ level. That’s the way I feel about it. So far, my husband is being pretty good, all things considered and is a bit stressed with the HBV infection, but no other big problems as I slowly work through being thrown into polygamy. He’s been mostly patient with me and my outbursts, but insensitive at times (like I have mentioned) but I think most pakistani guys are this way (probably most men in general, lol).

    Gail, thanks for keeping an eye out for me and warning me in a pleasant way, without attacking me like my parents do happy. I’ll be sure to keep what you’ve warned me about in mind and I will see what he says about the situation you posed (if push comes to shove, what will he do about the two wives?) Please continue to point out anything that raises warning bells so that I can keep an eye out. As well as point out anything you see that I’m doing not-so-good, lol. <3

    Love you all very much! See you later happy

  • KA126

    November 12, 2013

    As Salaamu Alaikum All,

    Please don’t take my comment about hearing the radio station the wrong way. As always before I take any information as truth, I always do my research and consult the Quran, Tafseers and Hadiths.

    Just the fact that I heard it though made my mind and my heart click. I asked to be filled with forgiveness and then I heard it. Regardless if it is true or not, and really it doesn’t matter to me. It just clicked that worrying about my Co’s actions and her intentions was useless. Worrying and thinking about it would lead me to act outside of my own character. I needed and have forgiven her FOR MY SAKE only. I let it go!!! I am living my life and so far, it has changed a significant outlook of mine. It has helped ME <—– tongue happy :? That's why I didn't care if she responded to my text of kindness or not. To me, it showed everyone, and in sha allah will be attributed to my good deeds that I have forgiven and now whatever you throw will be in your book and not mine.

    When we leave this earth, our day to day stuff will not matter….. only our Akirah. I have to focus on Allah subhana wa'atala…. focusing on some woman that could care less about me or how we can help each other get to Jannah isn't worth it. Not for me or any of my beautiful Sisters here.

    I guess it's safe to say…I finally got it!!! Yes I finally got it.

  • Gail

    November 12, 2013

    Spirited,
    I think you are also a really nice woman and I however will disagree with you in the fact that I believe your husband would not be so nervous or upset for both of you to talk.I will agree he is nervous because he knows if the truth comes out that he is going to have a scorned female on his hands or he is playing some game with you and either way you are correct time and Allah is going to reveal this truth.I will be honest though when she comes to know that he has been living with you all this time I doubt she will ever trust you or want to befriend you to be honest.Time heals wounds but from what I have seen through the blog cowives as a collective whole wouldn’t pi$$ on their cowife if they were on fire.In your cowife mind she will think not only husband double crossed her but you must not care about her either she will think because u never came forward to tell her.
    I will be frank I do not think that your cowife wants you in the picture and her sole desire from everything you have said is to have him divorce you and live monogamy.I am pretty certain she will use the child to try to keep him as u have stated she has told him to get her pregnant again pretending it is for the sake of the child to have a sibling.She is just thinking if he gets her pregnant again it will just tighten the noose around his neck really tight.
    I am curious if he will let her go if push comes to shove or end up trying to keep u as a secret wife and if you will go along with his program.What if he proposes to you to legally divorce you so he can legally marry his second wife so he can keep her in USA but still remain religiously married to you.I honestly think that the road you are traveling on now he would make you agree.Then he will lie to her and keep you exactly the same as he is doing now.

  • Gail

    November 12, 2013

    KA126,
    I forgot to mention I think your real proof of forgiving your cowife and calling to wish her a happy birthday is that emotional high that u feel that u did the right thing.I know I really put alot of stock in that feeling when I do something right.I know when I decided to forgive my cowife it was like the weight of the entire world was lifted of my shoulders.Emotionally do I have set backs YOU BETCHA
    I DO but those are my emotions and not my mind I try to make certain I keep my emotions in check as much as possible because they are like a child if your give your emotions an inch they will most certainly take a mile.
    You should really be proud of yourself what u did was not any small step it was beautiful and Allah/G.D knows.

  • Gail

    November 12, 2013

    KA126,
    I kinda take a different stance on what the Imam said and I kinda agree with what he said to some degree.I don’t think being unforgiving towards a cowife only would go against you but I think more in the terms of anyone.There area people in this world that actually have their children murdered and they can somehow find it in their hearts to forgive the murder.Now I will admit that is one extreme case but I have heard of it happening.My point is that I believe forgiveness is must for Peace.When you forgive someone you are doing yourself the service not necessarily the other person.In my case I forgave my cowife for her part of the lying and deception even I know that she still would jump at the chance to come to USA and get back with my husband if given the chance as Ana has pointed out so my forgiveness was not for her and did nothing for her personal growth unless she is willing to accept my forgiveness back.I don’t know if this is Islamic or not but this is how I feel.Maybe I am wrong I don’t know but I know my mind tells me to be forgiving but emotionally I would like to Taser them both if I ever got the chance.

  • Spirited

    November 12, 2013

    Salaam ladies! Hopefully everyone had a nice weekend and their Monday went well also big grin It kind of feels like it’s not Tuesday, but more like Friday, lol.

    @Gail, the blog is moving pretty fast the last two days, so I hope I’m not too slow to reply to your questions that you’d asked. My husband should be finished with education stuff next year, as long as there are no setbacks, Insha’Allah, so it doesn’t look like December is any kind of sneaky thing (only God knows for sure though). Gail, maybe I didn’t say so before, but my husband has said that he has already told his 2nd wife everything, but she seems to be in denial. Of course, that’s what he SAYS, I don’t have reason to doubt him, but the only real way to know would be to talk to his 2nd wife. He has begged me not to take action yet (to talk to her) only because he is worried about his baby. He has said in the past that he would be fine with us meeting, and he thinks we would be great friends if we had met under different circumstances, but he wants to see what she will do when the “deadline” comes. As you know, I’ve decided to give it the wait and see, because I think I’ve got enough to deal with myself for now laughing. December isn’t that far off, so let’s just see how it plays out and if he “clears everything up” to her or not (whatever it is that isn’t clear enough for her) — besides, everything is always in Allah’s hands after all, so I’m not going to stress over it. She’s the one keeping the truth of her marriage from her ENTIRE family, lying to their faces, and who knows what else.
    There’s definitely more important things to be focused on than her, in my opinion.

    I like how passionate you are about the whole co-wives thing and how polygamy should be handled truthfully, with dignity, and the right way. It really sucks that my co-wife isn’t like you, if she was, imagine how smoothly this whole thing would be! Oh and I totally get that its my husband’s fault and actions that are causing more headache between my parents and me. Can you believe he once even tried to blame me for him having an affair and then marrying his 2nd wife? Because my parents and other relatives would — jokingly — say he was a clever guy and I should watch out for him, that he’s a mastermind who fights with his parents when they make a decision about family life that he doesn’t “approve” of, etc. As if any of what other people say is my fault just because I’m related to them? Its like he thought my family and me are one hive mind and whatever they believe is what I believe.
    At the time, I told him that he spit on his parents’ face by going behind their backs and getting some old w-h-o-r-e and he undermined the whole family’s decision, and to stop making up idiotic ‘reasons’ just to make himself feel better by putting blame for his own actions to someone else — it isn’t going to erase the truth. If he was any kind of believing muslim man, he would have known he’s not allowed to be meeting non-mehram women alone. He would have kept it in the front of his mind that having an extra-marital affair is one of the big sins, etc. etc. He’s also under the impression that he can convert his 2nd wife to Islam. Of course its God’s choice who converts and who doesn’t, but I think I did say to him that he shouldn’t hold his breath.

    Anyways, he is trying hard to keep everything together and work on his deen also (but even more slowly than before because of having to split up his time). Yesterday he sent me a text message just full of different hearts, heart smileys, regular smileys, roses and lips along with 3 sad faces and 5 ghosts thrown in there as well laughing I had stopped on the side of the road to check my messages and just couldn’t stop laughing. He can be such a nutcase, lol.

    @Lynnette & Ummof4, I just wanted to say that your posts have been really good reads and uplifting. Even if the message isn’t directly to me, I feel both of you ladies have a really calming effect in the way you write and the wisdom you gals share. I always appreciate it! ( and I’m sure Laila does even more since you’re writing to her directly in those posts). happy

    @Lynnette, I also wanted to thank you for your compliments to everyone! I love how this place feels like an extended family. It brings tears to my eyes at times, to be perfectly honest! <3

    @Laila, personally, I think its good that you've decided you are going to do your own thing. I've noticed that if you're in polygamy, that's pretty much what you have to do. You can't just pause your life and wait for "your days" when your husband is with you. You have to change your mentality from that of a monogamous relationship where most things are done together, to focus on you first, and your husband is just the revolving door that you go through sometimes. So, good on you and I hope taking this step lifts your mood big grin

    @Aishah, I believe the saying is for any muslim who has more "authority" over you (parents, husband….guardian?) If they are saying to do something or follow something that is CLEARLY against Islam or Allah, you have every right NOT to do it. However, I believe Allah says to be kind in your refusal and don't fight with them over it. I don't know the context of why your husband is saying you are disobedient, but if you believe you are not doing any wrong by Allah, then I would stick to your guns. You already know your husband isn't the best at following Islam, so it may be he could be wrong, but Allah knows best of course. Maybe you should look for some guidance about your new arguments from an Imam or parents to be sure? We are all learning here, so I don't know there might be some less-than-great info sometimes laughing

    @KA126, I agree with Ana that just because you heard someone say that you can't go to Jannah if you aren't nice to your co-wife, it doesn't mean that's what the reality is. Infact, I've never heard anyone say that one before. I've also heard the "Heaven is at mother's feet" as well as "Be good to your husband and Heaven is guaranteed to you." The fact is, don't just follow what other people say. Allah has given us the guidebook, we just need to follow the Quran happy

    @Ruqqaya, that's amazing! I think its very rare indeed that a husband will put himself in his wife's shoes and actually feel what your husband has felt. Most seem to believe that the wife will get over it and everything will be rainbows and unicorns. I suppose you've had some good luck in this regard, and I hope he stays in this mindset also winking

    @Ana, I wanted to say something else that I feel is probably one of the biggest illusions we as humans (not just women) are under. You also mentioned it in a different way — that we make intentions, but should leave it to Allah. Most people seem to think that they are "in control" of their lives. The simple fact is, that we aren't. Our fates are already written, the only thing that changes is how we tackle the tests that Allah places in our path.

    And now for an update.
    My husband has Hepatitis B and has had it for years due to an infected needle incident in Pakistan, but it had been inactive (once you have the virus, you always have it). The latest blood test he got done a few weeks ago shows that either he has had a recurrence, or the last blood test (in Pakistan, 5 yrs back, go figure) was wrong and his condition has been long-term the whole while. The complications here:
    1. being able to spread it to his wife/wives (if I remember correctly, I was vaccinated as part of a requirement for clinical/hospital rotations during my vascular education, but I'll probably check and make sure).
    2. if his 2nd wife had it/has it, his daughter could have gotten infected too.
    3. if its long-term, damage to his liver could lead to liver cancer.
    He stopped by yesterday and was pretty depressed, just talking about how he's living on borrowed time and so on. I told him that everyone is living on borrowed time. You don't know how or when you are going to die anyway. You could get shot tomorrow, or be in an accident the very next moment, you don't know. I said to him that he's never given up on educational examinations he's had to do, so he shouldn't give up on this test either. Insha'Allah, he'll pass this as well. BESIDES, he doesn't even know yet if its a long-term condition! He's obsessing that he has cancer already laughing Insha'Allah, he will be fine, and if he just has to take medication to control it forever, that's not so bad is it?

    Yesterday, before I dropped my husband off at his work place (we went for a ride, just us), we also hung out with my cousin (the army one who just got back) for a bit. Then my cousin and I went to another cousin's house with her sister and spent a few hours at night shooting the breeze. He had one of the cousins put mehndi (henna) on his arm in the form of a scorpion. He was being defensive about it, saying that it's not girly laughing He mentioned that muslims aren't allowed to have tatoos, otherwise that's what he would have done. I had to admit, I didn't know that! I asked him if he was sure, 'cause I didn't remember reading anything about tatoos, but he said he was sure. Something about not defacing the body God gave you. He said he had even asked many Imams to make sure. I guess you do learn something new all the time — though either way, I wouldn't mess with tatoos as it is big grin

    Well, Salat time, I'll see you ladies later! Prayers for you all <3

  • ana

    November 12, 2013

    KA126, As Salaamu Alaikum,

    It’s good you feel you’re arriving at a better place, and things are looking up for you. It was nice you sent her a text wishing her a happy birthday.

    As for the remark you heard on the radio – that someone who has animosity towards her co-wife on the day of recompense won’t enter Jannah, I don’t go with anything or anyone who says a single act will prevent her or him from entering Jannah, unless they say the one thing is “Shirk”. The things that definitely prevent a person from entering Paradise/Jannah is if he or she dies an unbeliever or one who committed shirk, and didn’t repent.

    Allah tells us in the Holy Quran exactly what a Believer is and only a Believer will enter Paradise. Allah tells us those who believe, do righteous deeds, and repent will enter Jannah. A BELIEVER’S good deeds must outweigh his or her bad deeds on the Day of Judgement in order for her or him to enter Paradise.

    It’s simply bizarre that someone would say something so ridiculous as what was said about a co-wife in relation to Jannah. Co-wives aren’t even mentioned in the Quran or alluded to the way parents and orphans are or the way the wayfarer, needy, et.al are. I think people have made up sayings to control women, to control people, as it’s certainly is not about Allah swt. This stuff about Paradise being at a mother’s feet; if a husband is angry with the wife on the Day of Judgement she goes to Hell, or if he is displeased with her type stuff is not anywhere in the Quran and not even hinted to. Entering Jannah is nothing about any co-wive or parents or husband, It’s about Allah swt. It’s about believing and accepting ALL His Prophets who received and delivered the SAME message.

    The Quran is not piece meal like that anyhow – it’s not do this one thing and you go to Paradise; it’s not do this one thing and you won’t go too Paradise. A red flag should go up for the person who is knowledgeable about Islam, meaning knows the Truth, when he or she hears something like what you heard on the radio.

    The only way anyone will enter Paradise is if they accept the entire, whole Quran and give Allah full-time worship and not part-time worship.

    I just don’t go with the stupid stuff. As I said in the Post/new thread above, Islam is not a bunch of do this sister and don’t do this sister, don’t put nail polish on, take your right shoe off first, don’t eat with your left hand. It’s about belief in Allah swt and acceptance of His Books (Books mentioned in the Quran). We have the blueprint (Quran) to get to Paradise/Janah. It’s what I try to live by and nothing else. So, that is all I’ve got to say about that. We need to try to use our noggins. If it doesn’t make sense, it not true.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ruqayya

    November 12, 2013

    @KA, I understand that you are hurt by your co wife. I agree your husband SHOULD NOT have had ghusl at your house and he should have prolonged the visit so he could shower at her house. That was extremely disrespectful of him especially that you are in limbo.

    I just wanted to say, and it’s not exactly directed at you, but when we are married to married men we need to realise that the other marriage can and will have problems that will affect us, especially when living together. We should not make our husbands feel that he has to choose a side, me or her. We can say if you choose to stay married to her then I want it separate for a while, I want to fitnah, I want peace which is my right as much as polygamy is. But we should not feel upset that he is trying to make his marriage to her work, do we not want our husbands to work through our problems with us? Do we not want to feel that he loves us soo much that he is willing to stick around through the bad times? Then why do we not want that for our co wives? If your husband is capable of throwing away one wife due to her “defects” then he is more than capable of throwing you away when you do wrong without a second thought.

    KA please remain your wonderful and patient self, I know it must have been really hard to see him come home and rush to the shower, he definitely needs to know that is not okay especially when you do not know if they are going to really try for their marriage or not. Neither is it okay if you both were happy in polygamy and living separately and he came home to you and jumped straight in the shower. If you guys decide on living together again its something that you will just have to get used to, intimacy happens so often it’s almost impossible to hide it from those you live with. Anyways, I’m glad you are making amends with the co, I’m really happy to hear you are trying. I just wanted to say that reminder when I read your post but I was distracted until recently. happy I hope that things will work out between you and the co and hubby. I hope that one day you will all be the one happy family you wanted.
    Is there any way for hubby to cut down on his work? 3 hours every second day does not seem like a lot, if you guys are living in excess maybe you should consider working less so as to give each family member the time they need? I don’t know, it’s just a suggestion happy

    As for me the husband said something surprising the other day, he said polygyny was not fair! WHAT!? The man who almost didn’t marry me, almost divorced me, due to me not wanting polygyny is now saying it may not happen because he cannot afford it and can’t bring himself to even consider the emotional hurt and anxiety his wanting polygyny at this time is putting me through, let alone actually going through with polygyny. I’m a very emotionally weak person. We agreed one day it still may happen, but I feel like there’s been a break through in him considering my emotions as important and agreeing that no matter how good the situation may be his marrying again will affect me to at least some degree. Before he would just say that it would not affect me at all… I hope he stays in this mindset. I know before he has agreed to stay in monogamy but always due to just wanting to get me to shut up, this time it seemed different. He wasn’t doing it to keep the peace but rather by realising his responsibilities towards me and our children, and realising that more wives means more responsibility not just more sex.

  • KA126

    November 11, 2013

    Well I asked for forgiveness…. and my heart has been light ever since. I even sent a text message wishing her a happy birthday. She didn’t respond, but it doesn’t even matter, because I didn’t expect her to. I asked Habibi to set up where I could see my daughter (actually hers) because I miss her terribly. I explained that to him and told him that if she wanted to talk during the visit then I was open to that too. You should have seen his face. Masha’Allah…. I was listening to Islamic radio out of Philadelphia and he mentioned that if you have animosity towards your Cowife on the day of recompense, that you would not enter Jannah. I dont know how accurate the brother was, but it made me realize that the fitnah wasn’t worth it.

    I am filled to the brim with forgiveness for her actions. I will not be stupid to her antics, but I will love her fisibilillah from now on. My taqwa is real for Allah Subhana wa ta’ala. I realized that Allah Subhana wa ta’ala may not want to reveal my Co-wife’s character to Habibi right now. Why would I want to het in HIS Subhana wa ta’ala way.

  • Aishah2013

    November 11, 2013

    Ana thank you.Lynette thank you.very good.Ana I have the same things in common with my Co as you do with yours.we are both women(although she would appear to have a good deal more testosterone than me) and we share the husband.that’s it.friendship cannot be forced.I did ask the Imam that because I had no sincere intent in my heart to try the”befriending” again God would see it was not true in my heart and better just to leave it alone/cause no harm.he agreed.interestingly enough this young Co who is out in the work force has not made any friends that she would say go out to lunch or shopping with, etc. I think she keeps a low profile to keep people from learning anything real about her…anyway hub and I have had some really ugly arguements lately.he says I’m disobedient …I say God says (as I read it)obey your husband OK unless he doesn’t obey God…and if God says you can have 2 wives and sets the expectation of being just / fair/ not abusing 1st wife time or money for sake of 2nd wife then he should follow it.

  • ana

    November 11, 2013

    @Sister Lynnette, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    I thank you again. Your post was very informative. I totally agree with you that we cannot force friendship happy Lynnette, you have me thinking now about the Ayah in the Quran in which Allah says He can make those who are enemies today friends tomorrow. So, He is the one who determines who will be friends or not. Wow, Lynnette! surprise I think what you said about not being able to force friendship was just confirmed.

    I pray Allah swt relieve the physical pain for you and Laila. Try to remember Allah swt as much as possible, so He will remember you and give you relief.

    @Aishah, As Salaamu Alaikum,

    Sister Lynnette said, “I say that friendships are borne of common interests and shared beliefs.” I think she is so right. Do you and your co-wife share a common interest hee hee

    I hope everyone had a lovely weekend, and, Insha Allah, will have a very nice week. happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Lynnette

    November 11, 2013

    Wa Alaikum As Salaam, Sister Ana,

    Thank you for your very appropriately-titled topic.

    As for the idea that you and Ms. C should be “friends”, I say that friendships are borne of common interests and shared beliefs. They are not forced. They are built on a foundation of mutual respect and trust. I’ve listened to you speak, and I’ve heard a bit about your co-wife. This is not intended to be disparaging; it’s factual. Sister Ana, you have nothing in common with her past the facts that she is female, and she is married to the same man as you.

    I don’t have any idea of what you would even discuss. Your religion is “different.” She’s nominally Muslim, and you’re striving toward knowledge and Deen. You’re differently educated, your vocations are different, your tastes and habits are different, and it seems that even when you tried to “get to know her,” she was not interested in Sisterhood.

    She is just “different” from you. Better? Worse? That is for Allah (swt) to judge. But I can see the difference.

    In physical life (vs. The virtual like of the blog), I would probably seek you out for a friend because we have some common ground, and I would really hope that you would help me with my Deen. I would seek Jenny’s companionship, if she ever had a spare second…while her means may far outstrip mine, she is plain-spoken, smart, and frankly, someone I’d love to know. Same with Gail. If I could hold my face straight…she’s wise and funny.

    Ummof4 has this beautiful gift of helping me (and probably others) look “up” when we might have been looking someplace else. Her words (and vibe, if you will) bring peace. Spirited makes me feel like I could stand to be a much better person winking and I really appreciate her optimism…even if I think that the sky is falling, she doesn’t. Talking to Laila feels a lot like talking to myself ten years ago. I could literally go down the list of our blog family, and tell you why I would befriend each of them. Can the same be said for you and Ms. C? I’d dare say not. She has had the opportunity to try to make a meaningful friendship, and to try to find common ground. It does not seem that she is genuinely interested, either. So there….no illusions, nothing disparaging. Just one woman’s view from the outside looking in.

    Speaking of the outside, looking in….that is what a lot of us do. The view from the window makes everything look idyllic. You can’t possibly ascertain what’s happening by gazing through a window.

    When we marry, most of us are really looking for “happy.” Sometimes, we are so emotionally attached to a particular outcome, we lose all objectivity. Islam remedied this problem with the “Wali”, and by instituting rules for “courtship.” When we follow Allah (swt)’a rules, they (and He) protect our hearts.

    When my Egyptian suitor and I could not come to terms, I felt no pain, nor any sense of loss. I forced him to abide “by the rules.” I had nothing invested, at all. When terms could not be reached, it was perfectly fine with me. This differed…not marrying Kashif hurt so badly I thought the pain would never end. But with Kashif, it was MY way, not Allah’s (swt) way. I was punished for
    MY sin by MY sin. I would have agreed to some really bad terms to have made that marriage. Allah (swt) saw fit not to allow me to continue harming myself. In other words, it was an illusion.

    They say Shaytan is a whisperer of deceptions. How many of these false illusions that we cling to are the result of his whispers? I will be thinking about that as I drive home this evening.

    Our lives have purpose. That singular purpose is to worship Allah (swt). He gives us gifts and talents which we may use to aid our Ummah, to achieve happiness and comfort on this plane, to survive and have our needs met, to nurture our children….but they are all from Him. Just as we are all from Him.

    Let all the illusions that separate us from the love and worship of Allah be dispelled, and replaced with truth.

  • ana

    November 11, 2013

    @Laila, As Salaamu Alaikum,

    I would imagine your husband is a bit taken back that you are learning more about our religion. Some men don’t want women to learn because they like having the control over them. If we are not in the know, then we go with anything we’re told. Why don’t they want girls in some parts of Pakistan to receive an education?

    Speaking of education, I thought this is a nice video to watch for those interested in hearing from our little Pakistani Sister Malala Yousafzai:

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    November 11, 2013

    Gail,

    What’s happening with your ex-co is very interesting. I still think it boils down to the fact that she wanted to come to the U.S. with her (then) husband and it all backfired. She probably still has hope that one day he may leave you, come back to her and make it happen. I think women have a tendency to hold onto hope for a long time. “C” sat around hoping, Alex would one day come back to her. She said she never changed her phone number, so he could find her. Some women, as well as men, are die hards. You ex-co probably doesn’t want to have anything to do with you or the children, as she is still very angry and bitter about the outcome. In her mind, it could be a way of punishing you and your husband. You have to consider that there is a strong possibility that she loved her husband, and still loves him; although, he is the ex. It’ll be interesting, when your in-laws get back, to hear what they have to say about what transpired there with the co and her brother who married your husband’s sister.

    This is an open house. No nee to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    November 11, 2013

    Lynnette, As Salaamu Alaikum,

    I appreciate very much the assessment you made of Alex, “C”, and my situation. I find it helps me a lot when others share their thoughts on my situation, as it helps me see more clearly. Sometimes we can’t see the picture when we are in the picture. A person can say almost the same thing as someone else, but in a different way and it simply registers better.

    With regard to rights, one thing that happened not long ago with Alex, “C”, and me is “C” wanted to begin to go away with Alex on vacations. She was accustomed to staying home with him on vacations or they’d go away to a hotel for some privacy for a few nights, too. She has her grown kids in her home and other people coming in and out of there; I presume. Anyhow, she was well aware before she married him that he and I go away twice a year on vacations. Nonetheless, Alex said to me a couple of times we should stay home on one of our vacations each year and clean the house. A red flag immediately went up, as: 1. my house do not need cleaning to the extent we need to stay home for days and days to do it 2. She stays home on her vacation and clean, which is where he must have gotten the idea from 3. It seemed to me that he wanted to take away one of my go away vacations, and give it to her – which is a HELL NO! No way was I going to agree to it. Why should I give up one of my go away vacations to her just because she suddenly got the urge to go away the way he and I have been doing since we first married.

    I advised Alex that if he want her to have go away vacations, he (or he and she) needs to find the monies to do so, as I have no intention of giving up either of mine. She was content to do stay at home vacations before and I have become accustomed to my go away vacations. Alex had no problem with it. He understood it to be just and fair.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ummof4

    November 11, 2013

    As-salaamu alaikum wa rahmtullahi wa barakatuhu and hello to all,

    Ana, I disagree with you concerning the necessity for Muslim men to make all fard salah in the masjid, not just salatul jum’uah. However, this is not the place to debate the issue. May Allah increase us all in knowledge of His way of life, Islaam.

    Laila, it will be nice if the three of you can have a heart to heart talk. You may need to take plenty of tissue.

  • Maureen

    November 11, 2013

    Salam everyone!
    I haven’t read all of the comments yet, just signing up for new follow-up comments so forgive me for rushing in and out.
    Love,
    M

  • ana

    November 11, 2013

    As Salaamu Alaikum and Peace to All,
    peace
    This new thread is basically a continuation of discussions we had on the previous thread, which was:

    http://polygamy411.com/and-justice-for-all-in-polygamy/

    Please refer to said thread by way of the above link to finish reading there or to refresh your memory.

    I thank Allah swt much for each and every one of you who have joined us here, and have become a member of our blog family. Alhumdulliah (All praise is due to Allah).

    polygamy 411

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.