How Has Polygamy Affected Children?

polygamy411Polygamy 411 has focused more on how living polygamy affects husbands and wives, and has focused very little on the effects that polygamy has on children.  CM (a very special friend of polygamy 411, a reader, and commentator) wrote a comment that inspired me to explore the topic, and ask about the effects polygamy has on children. The comment that CM made is as follows:

“Ana,
 
As I have read some of the comments from the “younger readers”, whose thoughts I have enjoyed and appreciated, I have developed a curiosity on the effect of polygamy on children.  I know you and Alex don’t have children, but maybe your readers can share some insights.   I have not seen a lot of info on this topic as most everything I have found seems to about the relationships between the men and the women.  However, I think it is an important topic and I hope you don’t mind my bringing it up on your blog.

Do polygamous men make good fathers?  Does traveling back and forth between the different homes affect the children’s relationship with their fathers?   What are the challenges that polygamous men face in parenting their children?  What are the challenges children face being raised in polygamous marriages?  Are there effective solutions to these challenges?  Do mothers encourage relationships between the half or step siblings?  Do they encourage relationships between the children and the other wives?  Etc.

These are just a few of the many questions that we should ask.  I realize there are as many answers as there are families, but I think exploring this topic is essential to any discussion of polygamy and I would love to hear what others have to say about it.”

CM is correct; polygamy 411 would not be complete without us discussing the effects of polygamy on children. Polygamy 411 asks everyone who has information on the subject or those who would like to anonymously share their experiences, to join us at polygamy411.com, so, perhaps, we could further help one another. I think the forum would benefit all parties that are in polygamous marriages and have children, or those who are considering becoming part of polygamous marriages, and have children.”

CM, I thank you very much for your comment and questions that inspired me to write this post, and for all the support that you have given me and others at polygamy 411 over the years.

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

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63 Comments

  • ana

    September 8, 2012

    @Malsi434, Wa Alaikum As Salaam! Welcome to polygamy 411. We’re so happy to have you here. Alhumdulliah! I hope you don’t mind that I will move your comments over to our more recent thread that everyone is commenting on, which is http://polygamy411.com/should-parents-select-their-childs-spouse-rule-the-childs-life/ You have so much to say that we all need to hear. Don’t think or feel you are commenting too much. There is no such thing! happy
    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Zaianb

    December 10, 2010

    No Marcel i didn’t.
    Yeah you could, my surname with a i instead of a y though.

  • Zainab

    December 10, 2010

    YYEEESSS!!!! tongue

    EVERYONE DOES THE PETROL THING!!
    but you know what! My dad doesn’t take to us driving with open windows so he puts the A/C on, he especially closes the windows when we pull up at the petrol station, I think dem adults are on to us.

    Another thing i think ALL kids do, is when you have glue, and you pour it on your hands and you blow it till it gets dry, then once it’s dry you start peeling it off and you tell everyone it’s your dead skin! big grin NOSTALGIA!! i haven’t done it in 4 years though but my sister came home the other day doing it, Youth i tell you! They think they’re all snazzy doing something we were doing before they were born!! tongue

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>

    My dad has the same thing on our gate but there’s another thing that came along with it, it’s also a little device that you put before the gate so that if it’s closing and something comes between it, then the gate will stop and re-open. But i suppose that doesn’t work if you have a “shit car”…You should look into that Marcel.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Nobody in the whole of cape town seems to know what pencils im looking for, i can’t find any graphite at the art shops here, but then again they’re all book stores that im going to confused I got some charcoal sticks, but still, “they’re nothing to write home about”, i prefer pencils.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>

    “TRIED AND TESTED” because you have a 3 inch waist Marcel, on another note : I’ve always wanted to know how boys pants manage to stay below their arse without falling lower, it really does look like a talent.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Im sure my father would love to adopt you, but lets face it Marcel, you need ALOT of love and affection happy

    HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!

  • marcel

    December 10, 2010

    Zainab, did you get permission for a facebook yet?
    Otherwise I could just search for your name if you get it?

  • Ana

    December 10, 2010

    If any of you want to continue to send childish comments condemning Mrs.2, me, and second wives, then you can remove yourselves from the forum and take it to your facebook pages and have PLAYTIME there. If you can’t add anything constructive, we don’t need to hear from you. I’m getting very tired of your tired rhetoric.

  • Safiyyah

    December 10, 2010

    Lol Marcel, you must have had your mother’s hands full happy

  • Marcel

    December 9, 2010

    Lol Zainab, don’t you want to ask your dad to adopt me? tongue it’ll be like “buy one get 5 free” big grin

    But to be fair on him, it is true that if your head can fit through somwhere the rest of your body can. TRIED AND TESTED!! winking

    As for the gate, yes it was me. sad
    But it was, like many of my episodes, unintentional.
    I was pulling out of the drive way because i was going to MacDonalds, i had been craving it all week long and as i was reversing out there was a problem with the gas pedals and my dad had this gate thingy installed that counts to 10 then it automatically closes, but then all of a sudden the car just started working and it reversed back pretty fast while the gate was half closed so i kinds rode it off :$ . But i tell you Zainab, once i saw that thing fly off the hinges, all craving i had for that Mcd’s burger immediately left me. I could actually feel myself go numb from watching the gate fall over, it was like that hollow numb feeling you get when you’ve done something wrong.

    Once i got hold of my bearings i called Ed with his broken foot to come help me lift the gate up and we set it against the wall although i really wish i hadn’t called him because he was all like yeah!, this is God’s way of punishing you for my bloody foot you knob’ed. So when Zak woke up i told him wha happened and he just smiled and said it’s fine, he’ll fix it. But the thing that really pissed me off was 3 days later when my ad came to check the mail and he saw the gate just standing there, the first thing he did was yell at me! and he actually grabbed the back of my shirt and turned me around and he started yelling and the more he yelled the less guilty i felt but then Zak came down and he walked straight up to my dad and he was like ” sorry i broke your gate” . *awesome moment* My dad just said “oh” and then he walked away.

    Because Zack’s a big guy you know!!, he’s like 3 meters tall and one meter wide, my dad never fucks with him. I think he’s so welly good because he was at boarding school while all the polygamy happened.

    ***********

    Zainab you can’t be an expert artist overnight -_-
    Perfection takes time. Whenever im feeling down i go to the store and get me a special pencil, they’re the best pick me upper. Ever noticed how appealing the smell of lead is? It’s kinda like when you pull up at the “gas station” and you stick your head out of the window just to get a wiff of that petroleum goodness big grin It’s not just me, my monagamented friends do it as well.

    *****

    You’re going to have to tell me your link though. I put my facebook on private, my “step mum (LOL!)” ‘s family is starting to think im part of their family. Im all about the love, but come on, how many times can you accidentally tag me as my father in one of their happy family portraits? confused

  • Zainab

    December 9, 2010

    No Marcel, thats fine happy
    We’ll speak once i have my facebook up and running again.

  • Sureshni

    December 9, 2010

    I too once found my 17 year old son with bleeding wrist and i can honestly say that for him, it did get better, as it will for all children facing polygamy. I wouldn’t recommend keeping busy, i would rather recommend facing your problems head on. I speak from seeing what happened to my son, after a full, blown out day of fun and excitement, there was nothing more pleasing for him to do than to settle down with a knife.

    And most of the time as a mother, we don’t know what to do for fear of having our children turn against us. Marcel, you are very lucky to have a very pleasant, kind and caring nature and that will get you very far in life, contrary to popular belief happy

    All the best to both you and Bastian.

  • Bastian

    December 8, 2010

    Marcel http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1120820670

    I would like to thank all the compassionate first wives who’ve been a positive influence on me, perhaps we may not have spoke but many of your comments have been well received. Huda and Muslimah, A special thanks to the two of you happy I had never until now, met women so selfless and well grounded. But mostly i appreciate the common sense the two of you posses, as the saying goes “common sense, isn’t all that common”

    Wassalaam

  • Marcel

    December 8, 2010

    Bastian

    They are i suppose good people. They pay their taxes. They have his and her cars and a lovely home as well as two “normal” kids. They take holidays every single year and every weekend he takes them out to eat and he really does dote on them. On his wife’s birthday he bought her a bentley and he took them to Italy for a romantic getaway. When he’s with them he’s not what one would call Islamic but he’s a decent, tolerable person.

    But all those good things he does for them come at a price for us.

    I always thought men who said “I’ll never do polygamy to my kids” were silly, because i always thought, forget the kids! worry about your wife instead. But now that im where i am and i look at myself and you think about all the things that you’ve done and said and you realize why polygamous kids grow up and say those things, you realize it when you forget about the 1st wives and you look at yourself a little bit more closely and you realize that you have to worry about yourself too, that no matter what your intentions people will always look at your actions and they’ll speak to you based on that, i always knew it but now i think i fully understand it. I think i also can say i’d never do it to my children, if i have some.

    I remember when i was a kid, we used to have this van, and my mum used to sit in the first row and i would stand behind her and i remember asking her “mum? am i big?” and she would say “Yes my dear! you are!” And then just after my mum had reverted she taught me how to make Dua, and she said that i’d have to cup my hands, like a bowl, and when i was standing behind her in the van i’d cup my hands like a bowl and id put it under my neck to make it less conspicuous and i’d pray that i’d die before i became accountable for my sins. Thats why i asked her if i was big, because before that she would tell me “one day marcel, when you’re all big* and grown up, you’ll be responsible for your own deeds” so i wanted to die before i become accountable.

    But now more than any other dua i make, i make one for a long life, a good one obviously. I think it’s because of my sins that im afraid to lie there all alone and be questioned, Thats also one of the reason that i started doing Hifth, because they say that when you die and you’re alone in your grave then your memorized Quran will come to you in the form of a man and sort of protect you. It’s also daunting to know that once you die there’ll be no second chances, that whatever you have done in your books thats basically “it”. And i think thats one of the reason im so bitter and hurt, because while they’re off having a jolly good time you’re stuck waiting for someone to tell you which direction to head in.

    Two years ago my brother started cutting himself and it looked like it made him feel really good so i started it too. The first time i did it, it was kind of painfull but nothing major happened because i was told i didn’t do it properly. This one guy even gave me the motto, “Remember, it’s down the street, not across the road”. So i tried it down the street and i passed out and when i woke up Zack was standing there looking pissed but sad, that was the only times i did it.

    But then i “got into” bruising, it’ll be like you’ll knock yourself somewhere and it will leave a mark and then you’ll just push on it until you become numb. And while you’re pushing on it you’ll think of all the bad things you’ve said and done and it will be like it’s leaving your body but in a split second you’re reminded of all the people that want to help you and you immediately lose the desire to continue with what you’re doing so you stop. It’s better with the bruises as apposed to my old cuts, with those you also had to be very careful that they wouldn’t open and people would see, it’s much more easy to hide a bruise.

    “It just seems like you’re a happy person and you want to feel sad sometime.”

    I do love feeling sad because sometimes when you cry and then you feel this feeling in your face and you try to get it out so you try to cry harder, but i always stop eventually because my nose gets blocked and thats just a horrible feeling because then it starts running and your face becomes itchy. But i am lucky because most of the time im happy, im naturally quite a happy person its just that when i get sad i get really sad and because i enjoy it i tend to let it prolong.

    I was thinking the other day about women and how they cry easy? So i thought about the saying that those closest to God are the ones with Piety, and piety is achieved through constant crying. And i realized that im pretty swell at crying, and i definately recommend it to all those women facing polygamy. You can start crying about polygamy and end up having cried about 10 different things all together.

    So i think like that polygamy has been good for me, Its not like it’s my right to good parents but it definately helps i would think. Zainab, you always say that you would have loved to see what it’s like growing up it the UK, its kind of like like *search youtube for “SKINS PARTY TRAILER FULL”*…don’t mean to scar you. Another reason i feel so bad is because my father basically converted us and then left us to fend for ourselves, i only learnt that one is supposed to enter the toilet with your left foot when i was 14 because my grampz had seen me walking in with whichever foot was closest to the door. We used to be the only polygamous family in our area that i knew of, and when we converted i didn’t know that i couldn’t be friends with Jews and Christians and all my drug and alcoholic friends, So all that influences basically put me here. Don’t even get me started on the tattoos
    ! everytime i go for the lazer treatment i start cussing him, mainly because he’s seen them like a dozen times and he never thought to tell me, “marcel! they’re haraam”

    I told you that because i get the feeling you want to hear all those type of things, perhaps so that you don’t feel so alone when it comes to being fucked up. I don’t know. But sooner or later when you’ll reach a point where you have no choice but to turn to God for assistance, I think im on my way there happy

    Zainab.

    Do you think i could comment back to you later? im not really feeling the happiness right now and i always like to reply to you with the same amount of enthusiasm tongue

  • Mrs.2

    December 8, 2010

    After reading most of the comments I believe that the issues that children face in polygamy and how it affects them is NOT polygamy itself…it is the adults in the situation that fail to guide, process and support these children through this type of situation.

    Its much like a monogamous marriage when there is divorce (a HUGE change for a child)…and often the children and their feelings are looked over and not considered because the parents are so focused on what is going on with them, the marriage etc….

    I think in most situations the parents don’t even realize the “oversight” but they do give limited support, resources and understanding to what a child will go through…

    For each of these situations above I am not sure which parent or if both missed the mark…but anything will surely affect a child when the parents are going through a major life change…and as the adults in the situation we need to make sure that our children are secure and are walked through the change/process/situation as well. We as parents fail to realize that major changes affect them as well….its usually not for lack of love but b/c we are tending to our own wounds and hurts to just try and function…

    Mrs.#2

  • zainab

    December 8, 2010

    “Once again I think i have a better understanding of children in polygamy now”
    because you can’t always tell someone who feels as though they’ve been wronged that they really havent and that all you did was fulfill your rights!! The world doesn’t work like that!!
    You cant be the cause that your child is messed up then say to people, Oh its not me, all i did was fulfill my right. *and as a result of doing what pleased me it took from my ability to perform the rights i owe to my kids T_T….Imagine my dad comes home and says, “I need a second wife”, i think i’d become an introvert no doubt!

  • Zainab

    December 8, 2010

    Marcel,

    Once again I think i have a better understanding of children in polygamy now, yesterday my father said something more or less, He was talking about his brother and polygamy and his brother always maintains the notion that “he did nothing wrong”, polygamy in secret is not a sin, it is not his fault that his family is distraught and unable to cope, even last week his wife was admitted to hospital for the second time.

    But my father said something the other day that made alot of sense to me, he said, “There is Fatwa, and there is Taqwa”…..(seriously!! the first time i heard it i got shivers and everything just puzzled together) big grin

    From what i understood of it : Sure there is nothing religiously *wrong with taking a second wife in secret, sure some people believe that it is not your fault concerning the outcome of your family because of Polygamy that you CHOSE to practice. But is it really piety if you have that attitude? It seems as if though everyones looking for piety yet none of them are finding it, My opinion is that everyone is too busy doing what is only expected of them rather then to go the extra mile. And without a doubt going that extra mile is what’s going to get you that luminous glow and that gliding looking walk winking

    LIke my childish thought up idea, imagine there’s oil laying all over the floor, and its obvious that there would be someone who would miss it, fall and break their neck, i could either have a selfish outlook on it and say, “i didn’t spill it, its not my duty!” or i can be selfless and take time out of my day to clean the oil up and prevent a catastrophe?

    I know it’s a pretty childish example but still, it makes sense tongue

    PEACE? confused

  • Bastian

    December 8, 2010

    No thank you Zainab, That was very helpful. I do believe that because you grew up in a Muslim society you would know better certain things. I suppose i’ll be starting my Qur’an classes very soon!! happy

    Wow! polygamy is bad in your family! did any of it turn out good? You said that your father is the child of the second wife, how does he feel about it?

    Polygamy must be bad in South Africa then. sad

    The two of you are discussing crayons on a polygamy blog big grin

    Perhaps Marcel, it was another Sebastian? I don’t have a facebook, sorry. But if one last question i would like to know how you get along with them? your father and your step mother? It just seems like you’re a happy person and you want to feel sad sometime.

    Lol, who knew your foot would break if you put it under a car. You are right Zainab, boys will be boys happy

  • Ana

    December 7, 2010

    It appears a discussion has opened up again on the pros and cons of learning Quran in Arabic. That topic was closed quite some time ago and is not to be discussed on this blog. I’m sure there are other blogs in which you could carry on the discussion. This blog is about polygamy. Any further comments addressing the pros and cons of speaking Arabic won’t be approved!!! An Arabic speaking person has no better chance of entering Paradise than any one that speaks another language.

  • Zainab

    December 7, 2010

    Bastian.

    I can’t really answer you that because the thing is, i’ve been living in a Muslim community all my life, here, when you’re a child you are taught how to read arabic, starting with it’s letters, Alif, Baa Taa etc, then you move on to the letter with the harakas, once you become fluent in the Surah (the book that bascically prepares you for the Qur’an) you move onto the Qur’an, and like I mentioned, you are taught certain Surah’s in the Quran already and you hear other people reciting it so you become used to it.

    As far as memorizing the Quran in English goes, i am kinda confused as to why you would want to learn it in English, mainly because i’ve never heard of such a thing and because its easy learning it in Arabic! If you can read Arabic as you can English you’ll see that it has more of a flow in Arabic. Also i think if you look at the Quran, it says Quran, then if you look at the translated versions they say English translation? And you cant ever learn the whole Quran in a language other than Arabic i think, because of those Arabic words that have no english meaning. Sometimes they will say something like ..”this word is one of the miracles of the Quran, none but Allah knows its meaning”…So yeah, thats what i think.

    Even my mom whose 43 has started memorizing the Quran (in Arabic)…she can’t speak Arabic and neither can i. i know a few words here and there but i can’t translate it in full, proper sentences. But just to be sure you should ask somebody learned who could give you a proper answer, what i said is only what i know and what makes sense to me. Even Marcel, as European as they come, he managed to learn 8 chapters in 4 months which for anybody is an accomplishment!

    Good luck though.

    Marcel! lol, maybe he blames you because you suggested it big grin Why’s your gate broken? Was that you aswel? surprise
    But seriously Marcel. You do remind me of my father, AND HERE”S WHY!!….

    Once upon a time, when we were unpacking the car after arriving at our holiday destination (we we’re driving a bakkie, is what we south africans call it, but i dont know what you call those type o cars? pick up truck? anyway it was a nissan navara) So while me and my dad was unpacking…my dad says to me, “Yo Zainy, you know, if a persons head can fit through somewhere then like, the rest of the body can also fit through that place”..and i think about it, and i swirl it around in my head and i think Ok, it kinds makes a little bit of sense…So he says, “like my head can fit through this window (the window from the back seats leading to the canopy) then the rest of my body can fit aswel…Then he goes ,”here man!! let me show you!”….He then proceeds to maneuver his arms and his head through, which he does terrifically, then he hits a abit of a snag. He’s stuck. He got stuck somewhere between those bones below your arms and his LOVEHANDLES!! So now the front half of his body is stuck in the canopy and the bottle half is sitting on the back seats, and i begin to get worried and im all like “daddy are you ok? must i go get mommy?” and he says, “ya! go get your mother!” eventually my mother comes out and sees what my father is doing and she’s all like *jokingly* “YEAH -dadsname-!! You dont learn!!” So me and my sibling start pulling and pushing and the more we’re trying to get him unstuck the more he’s turning red, eventually he manages to home back through to the seats and we’re all hot and sweaty from the whole ordeal, and my dad gets out of the car and he starts walking toward the house, limping because he was so numb for all the energy he exuded and just to show us he still has his sense of humor he ” Ok guys, it didnt work today, but we try again tomorrow, i know i cant be wrong about this!”

    I mean my God! if you get stuck in such a situation isn’t it time to be working out your diet plan! And from my dad’s actions….i realized that boys will be boys, sometimes they have it in their head that something is a good idea, when clearly, its not! ^_^

    I saw those copic pens but they are very expensive, in the video i was watching the lady said that she bought the standard set and then she just added on one at a time. But they look really good to color in with, im good with the drawing but i always seem to mess it up when it comes to the coloring in part, i dont like to make a copy then color the copy because the copy sometimes look so wrong.

    Bastian, I almost forgot about the question you asked me. No, my dads not polygamous. Im 100% certain that i got the best father in the world! When you pass him in the hallway he’ll say to you “come, i’ll give you money or he’ll hug you but he’s always joking with you and wrestling my brothers, he’s genuinely a great father, when you mess up he never yells, even when he found me with facebook he just smiled and asked “are you addicted Zains!” And then when he found me with music on my ipod last year while i was doing hifth, he just smiled and said “what are we going to do?” that alone just broke my heart i felt so disappointed in myself and from last year July i havent listened to music. Even morning before we leave the house we always hug my dad and sometimes when he takes us to school, for the entire drive he’ll be making jokes and telling you about his life story, from the time he sold wash cloths on the street to the time when he became the first person in his family to have an actual house with a full happy family. Your question did get me thinking about the people in my family that are/were polygamous…

    Moms side:
    *My grandmothers father has two wives, my grandmothers from wife 1.
    *My grandfathers father had two wives, my grandfathers also from wife one.

    My grandfather from my mothers side never became polygamous, he’s 68 (roundabout) now. You can tell that his needs are not being met but i think he fears polygamy, i know because once when i was a child, not knowing what i meant, i yelled “grandpa has two mommmies!!” he just looked very offended and hurt.

    Dads side:

    *My grandfathers father was polygamous, he had 2 wives, im not sure which batch of children my grandfather is from.
    *My grandmothers father had 3 wives, she was from the first wife, he used to look for non-muslim women and send them to his wife/wives and then once they became Muslim, he married them. At one point there were 2 wives and 14 children living in one room.
    *My grandmother was my grandfathers second wife, he had already had 5 daughters and one son and then he and my grandma had my father. My grandmother is not a good all around person, very self entitled and she never acknowledged the first wife and her children. (they divorced soon after my father was born)
    *My dads brother from the first wife married a second wife in secret about 2-3 years ago, We don’t visit them often but im fairly certain he already has 3 boys and 4 girls or 4 boys and 3 girls. the girls are all grown up and whenever i see them they’re moody and down and the young boys are just looking for somebodies lap to sit on.

    thats basically all the polygamy in my family, but then there’s also all the stories one hears. Its enough to mess you up even if you’re not living it!

  • Shu'aib

    December 7, 2010

    Assalamu Alaykum Marcel and Bastian

    My father was also once polygamous, “was” because he and my mother divorced 3 years later. At the time of the second marriage I was 14 years old, we were living in a non-Muslim area and I think that played more of a negative role in my life. Just because of all the stares and the whispering, and even the fact that you’re a teenager and you’re at the most vulnerable stage in your life and you have to watch your father chose something that is ill-fated for you’re family.

    Those 3 years of my life were a living hell, nothing in my adulthood can compare to that. Because now your mother becomes depressed, she expresses herself in ways that are inappropriate for children, you over hear certain things that were not meant for your ears and those things mature you beyond belief! But the downside to that is that sometimes when you speak you sound mature beyond your years and at other times when you just want to be a rebellious child and you want to vent your anger and frustration, you get labeled certain things. And those years when you have to deal with things that caught you unprepared, you find that you have to make certain decisions that caught you unprepared as well. Times will come when you are faced with a challenge, and you realize that your father is not here to help you with certain decisions, you will look to your mother for guidance but because she is facing her own worries she is unable to help you, Eventually you will have to make those decisions on your own and you will fail the first few times because there was not an available parent who could guide you and offer you advice. The best thing you will find is someone who can offer you unconditional help, someone who will be there without making you feel as if though they are forcing themselves to befriend you.

    Being a child in polygamy is hard, especially when your the children of the first wife. Having a polygamous father is not the same as having an alcoholic father or a drug addict father or just a father who, plain and simply was just not there! I had to come to the reality that my father left me, my siblings and my mother, to be the husband and father to other children.

    No matter what people say, they can either be helpful or not. But people are people and you should only take of them what you need and whatever good they give you, you give them good back. You do not speak ill of them nor do you betray their trust. Both of you made mention of how you are labeled UnIslamic etc….look at those people who lose their dignity yelling at you, if they are saying something good then it is best to listen, otherwise, let it be water off a ducks back.

    When someone takes out their anger at you, don’t yell back, it is the worst thing you can do, leave the fool to feel like an idiot. When you are being yelled at and you keep quite, Allah deputes an Angel to dispute on your behalf. And besides, after every argument you always regret having said that instead of this and this instead of that, let the Angel argue, he knows exactly what to say.

    Polygamy is not a bad thing, there can be good in it. The problem lies with those people who practice it, but i assume that whenever you speak of polygamy you speak of your own polygamy and you do not generalize, that being said, even though there is good in polygamy I would never want it for my children, When you begin that polygamous journey sure your intentions can be good, but you will always consciously know that something will go wrong, and that is just one of the many things that causes me to abstain from it. I do not believe i could ever do justice with two wives and two sets of children, even now, i am always found guilty of being unfair between the children that I already have. And because of this i feel that I am unfit for polygamy, and Allah knows best.

    Best Regards, Shu’aib

  • marcel

    December 7, 2010

    “My mom once had to change her name (almost) because her name translated to Arabic means something bad but the Moulana said it was fine because in another language in means something good. She once asked me “Zainab, what do you think if i change my name”…”Don’t matter to me, ill still be calling mom *mom* heh!””

    I own that ^ winking

    But the old people thing really works, i found a bullet aswell in my grampz “special room”, i asked him what it was doing there but he just grinned and looked away. Did i tell you that his father was polygamous aswell? I think it has something to do with that because my grampz always gets that evil grin, sort of a naughty grin actually, in his eye when he hears something tragic about his father. He doesn’t talk about it but from all the little pieces i gather that things didn’t turn out to well.

    The name thing*

    I was thinking about that, my name is actually french, Marcel means little warrior and then my middle name is L’wren, means “the bay”. My mums french so thats why, Its not exactly like im spoilt for choice because i hate both of it, It’s the only thing i can actually blame on my mum cause she chose it, but then again at the time they weren’t muslim so yeah….and i doubt now that im all grown up i’ll manage to make it as a Muhammad or Omar ^_^

    I was wanting to get me a new set of coups because i ran out of red and black in the set i have but i didnt know where to find them because they were a gift from tokyo so instead of getting that im going to get me some copic markers instead, im gonna get a small set first to see how they work.

    Reading the schooling process post that you wrote i realized you’re quite lucky that all those things come naturally by now, for me now i guess learning about all those things would be a totally new concept. happy Good for you though, you have a great set of parents!

    The story about Ed’s foot.

    My Uncle and his family had come for a visit, so when they were getting ready to leave me, ed and zak had to go and move the gate for them because it had broke. We were all bare footed so i noticed ed’s feet and i realized that he’s got really flat feet, whenever we take races in the pool he always wins, seriously, they’re like flippers…. So i was like “hey ed, lets see what happens if you put your foot under the car” and then zak came over with a grin and he was like “yeah ed, i dare you!” So ed being ed, put his foot under the car as they pulled out, then they left and drove off. So we started high fiving ed like yeah! that was like so awesome what you did but then, as usual, things took a turn for the worst…he started limping…at first i was like come on bruv!! It can’t be hurting, there’s barely any foot there!….but eventually he couldn’t walk anymore and zak had to carry him inside, he didn’t break his foot, it was just bruised. but yeah thats basically how he hurt his foot.

    The reason i think he blames me is because i was laughing at the fact that zak carried him into the house “bridal style” tongue but now that “i” broke his foot it kinda makes us even because he once pushed me off the monkey bars and broke my wrist (we were taking a race, i think he panicked when he saw i was winning, so he kicked me from behind) . Things are good now though, his foot has healed and it’s looking as stunningly slim as ever. big grin

    Bastian

    Is your full name Sebastian? because i was thinking that i had an invite on facebook from a sebastian and if its you it would be awesome if you could invite me again, It would be easier to chat on IM than here.

  • Bastian

    December 7, 2010

    Zainab

    Thank you, It was very helpful. I checkep out the site you gave and i thought it’s really great that they provide all of those things, In the UK there aren’t many Islamic institutions and i know i’d never be able to learn anything on my own for fear of misinterpretation but its good now that i know in which direction i need to go. I was also wondering (and its not my intention to point fingers at anyone), but when you learn the Hifth could you learn it in your native language? I do not know how to read Arabic so it would be very difficult for me to memorize it, whatever little you know please feel free to share it with me.

    Marcel

    um…I didn’t beat my dad up? winking i thought it was you?
    besides, knowing what i know about my dad and having seen what i have, if some teenz lost their cool and finally cracked it wouldn’t surprise me.

    Girls? I just realized that i dont notice them aswell. And i wouldn’t be able to tell you if they affect me in “that” way because i haven’t taken the time out to “check” myself.

    Do you get along with your dad and his wife?

    Zainab, Is your dad polygamous?

  • Zainab

    December 7, 2010

    Marcel, where must i find an 87 year old person? And besides it’s not in my nature to stalk random people home tongue

    -_-…just tell meh, how random wouldn’t it be for me to go through all the trouble to ask ed….

    I was thinking of changing my name because i don’t like my one, then someone told me that i cant because i have a really good name sad . My mom once had to change her name (almost) because her name translated to Arabic means something bad but the Moulana said it was fine because in another language in means something good. She once asked me “Zainab, what do you think if i change my name”…”Don’t matter to me, ill still be calling mom *mom* heh!”

    Ye know Marcel, you English people are very lucky hey, if you don’t like your first name………..YOU HAVE 10 OTHERS TO CHOOSE FROM!!! HAHA!! surprise

    Also Marcel, i did get a set of coupy pencils, they work really good.

  • Marcel

    December 7, 2010

    About the calligraphy pen…. You know what you should do?

    You have to find old people, like really really old people, and then, you have to follow them to their house and somewhere in that house there’ll be like a room full of old stuff from like the 30′s then you should just rummage through it a bit and you should find like random treasures and stuff….I don’t know? My grampz is 87, he’s really antique…but yeah, i found a set of calligraphy pens in “the room”..they work well though, because i checked how much a dip pen is (i wanted a silvery one with engraving on but my grampz said i have to practice on the ones i got first) but i know they’re quite expensive.

    About Ed’s foot, he’s stupid, he broke it himself. You should ask him what happened….use gentle words though, he’s got bruised ego at the moment surprise

    The hifths is going very well, I want to finish just after i turn 18 so im going to see how far i get this year then next year ill work out how much new lesson i need to take daily. But I definitely see what you mean when you say life becomes easier, even the little things, like at my house you’ll never find a clean available knife in the draw, but all of a sudden there’ll be one knife just sitting there…and i’ll grin to myself big grin cause its awesome. (back 5 and front 3)

    Bastian.
    I cant really speak for you but but i know alot of my problems come from polygamy because if im not talking about anything polygamy related i tend to be fine. I have a long list of problems that i wouldn’t like to share at the moment but one of it that really bothers me (not much though) is the fact that im not attracted to women? i mean at my age you should be attracted to women. I noticed it when me and a couple of other blokes we’re sitting at mcd’s and this girl walked in and i suppose she was what you would call “attractive” and all the guys started to whistle and behave like idiots and all i wanted to tell her was “girlfriend, put some pants on”…I think the reason i feel that way is because women are basically the reason im in this situation, cause i know that it was about the sexual attraction that my father married again because women are supposed to be wearing veils and if they could do that then i don’t think life would be as bad. But the reason it’s so bad is because theres ZERO attraction, like i’ve seen naked women but more than anything else it just annoys me, you know? like cover your goodies, I dont want to see them.

  • Zainab

    December 6, 2010

    Lol Marcel, “you’re de Illest”

    I watched till the part when they landed in london but then the site i was watching it on crashed for some reason…Then we were going to watch it the next day at the mall but then we went to fish on the rocks instead…That really didn’t sound as fun as yours but on the brightside Marcel you’ll have alot of interesting stories to tell your kids one day.

    Oh and i also wanted to ask you what happened to Ed’s foot? before i left i saw a “marcel broke my foot…the fucker” tongue My dad caught me on facebook so im laying for a while…it’s the worst when your caught, you feel really bad and you don’t know where to put yourself..but they said they would discuss whether i can have one or not soo hopefully….

    Did you get your art pencils yet? I haven’t gotten mine, i went to alot of shops though but i can’t find the “perfect art shop”….where’d you get yours? (if you got)…

    Ana/Bastian

    Salaam.

    Bastian, how do you know i live in Cape Town? Just curious.

    As far as Education goes (both Islamic and not)
    *I started out going to pre-school and it was at an Islamic institution, so there you basically learn how to make wudhu, cleanliness, how to live, how to eat, drink, sleep, how to interact with people and so on.

    *Then i went to grade school also at a Muslim institution and there i learnt juz 30 and juz 29, how to make your salaah correctly, history lessons like who the Sahaba were, the wives of the Prophet (saw), the Battles of Islam, first people to accept Islam, first martyrs, but its all really detailed like there are chapters on everything, i can’t remember it all but you could ask me if there’s something in particular you want to know about the history. Then there was fiqh, that teaches you Ghusl, Tayammum, more detailed cleanliness, how to clean the area where a dog has touched, how to clean blood, when does blood break your wudhu, all the different types of water and what could be used for wudhu, then there was the whole “who qualifies as your mahram” who breaks your wudhu, we did Hijab and the proper way it should be practiced. Then they taught you Tajweed, (how to recite the Quran in the correct manner, the rules of noon and meem etc)…Then they taught you also Arabic not everything, but alot of vocabulary and some reading, how to tell the date and the time, so when you read the Quran you actually understand certain words, although the words could change when you put it into sentences… I can’t remember what else they taught, but just ask..

    *then also at grade shool (grade school fro 1-7 im talking about hey) they give you math’s, geography, natural and social sciences, Non-Islamic History, Afrikaans as a second language, English, L.O. i think that’s all.

    So after all that i started with my Hifth, next year i’ll be making my Quran rock solid and i think part time high school although im not really feeling it (Marcel did you get a tutor yet?), and i want to start an art course and some other language courses aswell in that year. Then i want to move on to the learning of the Arabic language, arabic and Urdu (my parents said those two languages are non-negotiable, makes sense to me though), Tafseer aswell, One really good school in Cape town is Darun Na’im, they have a website darun-naim.co.za/ …you should check out the courses, for any misunderstanding the courses arent actually “online”….I also want to do an Aalimah course, I think thats mostly about Fiqh and i think it relates alot to problems facing women…and after that im not really sure..

    High school you can do home school so alot of the dangers are out of the way, but with university you’ll have to go in and sit with a class full of boys, and i wear of abaayah’s (here we just call them “tops” cause they go over EVERYTHING!! tongue and a black scarf so if i go to uni im sure i’ll get alot of stares at first, lol like WOW!! there’s a ninja!!…

    That’s basically what is done if your looking to better yourself Islamically, alot of my friends after grade school (1-7) went to high school, they’re busy with their final year, and after high school you really just get into the flow of uni and after that you marry have babies then thats basically your life, for most, but hidaayah comes at anytime.

    For the men its kinda different, they do all that i’ve just mentioned that i did and want to do, then they head off to most of the time Makkah, Madinah or Egypt for further studying. Then when they come back it’s like who are they kids, they now have beards and gruff voices and they walk with a Moulanah swag it’s really nice when you see all of them walking out through the airport gates, but that doesnt mean that hey’re all serious or anything, alot of the boys i know are constant jokers constantly joking with the other boys…they run to bed 10 minutes before the time to put corn flakes under someones sheets so that when they go to bed…..Then when they’re back they tend to get married and have kids, maybe they become Tablighs and then go for 3 days, 10 days, 40 days, 4 months in the Path of Allah, When you do that you belong to like a group in the masjid, So for example if there’s 5 men in a group at the masjid, then their wives will be in a group so that when they have Taaleem then all those women gather at one persons house and like if you belong to a certain masjid they when a group of people come from a certain country in the path of Allah (mostly for 40 days and 4 months) then the group living in your country will host those people, if there’s men then the men go to the masjid and the women will go to one of the wives of the men hosting’s house. It’s about location, 3 days at this location, 3 days at that location, until the appointed time is up.

    So that’s basically it that i know of, somebody else will know more. But women don’t usually leave South Africa, there are some Sleep in Islamic school in Johannesberg which they’ll go to or there are some in Cape town. but i know alot of foreign girls come here to study, especially at the Ulooms in Johannesberg.

    Thats all the things you can do, but generally if you start with your Quran then everything gets made easy and things fall into place, so i guess God keeps you on the straight and narrow, but he keeps you happy will little. But sometimes kids will do high school first, but that four years and by the time you’re done you’re more often than not very corrupted with drugs and partying so it’s hard to get back to studying religion, especially for the girl because once you get pregnant in high school you can kiss a comfortable life goodbye..(also in grade school, the Islamic ones, they somtimes teach you about what a illegitimate child can and cant do, i know they cant inherit and be inherited from and someone also told me they cant become scholars of religion, not sure on that last one though.) And even after high school certain stupid children tend to have “FALLEN IN LOVE” trust me, you aint seen love till you seen those chops, they get married at their parents expense, their parents house them and continue to feed them while they off at uni but then the girl almost always falls prgnant, she drops out, haves baby after baby until the next thing you know she’s 45 and her husbands coming home with a stupid grin on his face saying “um, honey..i met someone and i want to marry her”…Well…thats what i know and what i’ve seen…i hope it was a help.

    (if i made a mistake im sorry, i didnt proof read it, its too long)

    Wasalaam.

  • Tuttie

    December 6, 2010

    @Marcel. I nearly lost my wudhu laughing at THIS bit…

    Ah second wives..hmm, i realized i can’t yell at all of them. It’s like while im yelling at one, 10 others are sneaking past me.

    LOL! that was hilarious. I haven’t read the whole thread so forgive me for laughing.

  • Ana

    December 6, 2010

    Bastian,

    I’m going to be a butt for a moment and butt in. It shouldn’t become my permanent label, though, so don’t get carried away with it happy I don’t know what your age is, but what you’re going through doesn’t have to be all about polygamy. It could be the whole adolescent/puberty thing. Being a teenager is an extremely difficult time. So you’re dealing with a lot right now, trying to know yourself and deal with what life is sending your way. I’m sure it’s a combination of both, life changes within and your conditions and circumstances.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • bastian

    December 6, 2010

    Marcel

    The thing im having difficulty with is not knowing the root of the problem? When i do something wrong and im alerted of it i don’t know whether or not its polygamy related or not so i dont always know how to fix it…

    Zainab

    Hi, what would you say is the average lifestyle of a muslim in Cape town. Both religiously and academically? It would be really helpful to know because a lot of people i know send their kids to South Africa to study Religion.

    Thank You.

  • Marcel

    December 6, 2010

    ZAINAB!!!! I thought you were dead! sad

    omgg..this is good stuff Zainab, it’s very rare that one lives to hear these hair-raising accounts of peoples lives, at least if i die now i can say there was a moment where i was smiling so much my cheeks hurt happy THANX!!

    HARRY POTTER!!…tragic tale sad ..and im not talking about what happened in the movie …

    For an entire year since the last one came out, i’ve been waiting patiently to watch this one…So last week, Tuesday night….IT WAS DECIDED! Wednesday morning i would be there…ordering my ticket..popcorn and pepsi in hand, that night i went to sleep extra early with a smile on my face and my spiderman pajamas on, safe to say i felt like a million bucks. That morning as im running down the stairs all excited, when all of a sudden im blindsided by Zakariyyah’s ginormous frame standing in the way! and out of the blue, he grabs me!!! and he’s all like, “where you going? It’s your turn”…..and then it dawns on me….It’s my day with the siblings. So im like ok it’s all good, i’ll just take them with me…BIG MISTAKE!! It took them 45!! minutes to get ready and by the time we actually got there the movie was just over half hour in, so i decide this day can still be salvaged, no harm done. I book us in for the next movie….for the next 3 hours we’re just walking around, looking at toys, eating ice cream until eventuuuaally it’s time for the movie. With renewed enthusiasm i race to the cinema, with our drinks and our popcorn we’re sitting there all like “YEAH!! lets get this party started!!” and then the trailers start popping up and it’s like the most heavenly feeling ever and the movie starts and you get those chilling moments when the theme song plays, ZAINAB! imagine this, you’re sitting there! popcorn and pepsi! feet up! an almost empty cinema! it cannot get any better than this! then…. half way in, the complaints start…*whiny voice*…marcel why couldn’t we go see “up”, why couldn’t we go see “tangled” instead..”this movie is evil”..”eww look at that man *points* he’s got no nose”…..and then, the bombshell drops, “Marceeeel….i need to pee”…as you can imagine, im pissed. nearly half way in and he wants to use the loo, so im like fine lets go if you gotta go you gotta go…so we enter the lavatory, first cubicle on the right, he closes the door im like yeah 5 minutes and we’ll be out of here…and as if on cue five minutes later he comes out looking somber, so i ask him, you done? can we go? He looks at me and he says “i couldn’t go Marcel, it was dirty” by now i want to pull my hair out…after my blood pressure has been severely pushed up, he comes out and quite naturally im upset you know? So we wash our hands and as we’re about to set foot into the cinema the other one goes..”Marceeeell..i needa pee”. I.LITERALLY.COULD NOT.BELIEVE.MY EARS. surprise Then the other one goes “but we’re missing the movie!! and im like hell yeah we are” he pops me the bird *and im all WTF, did he just…* and he walks into the cinema leaving me to deal with mr.bladderproblem. By the time he’s done taking a piss i come out to find the other one crying outside the cinema yelling “you left me!!”..and because he looks so traumatized i hurry over to him and i start hugging him and im all like im sorry i didn’t mean to, do you want more popcorn?, then the other one decides to hit the final nail in the coffin and he goes, “Marcel…..your car is shit”….Zainab, i tell you, i got so mad that i grabbed both of them by the arm and i stormed out straight to the car. And all the way home i felt my eye twitch but i was pissed, pissed like never before. I mean i love them, but they pissed me off so the limit, i mean whose supposed to reimburse me for that 40 pounds that i basically lost ..i mean come on!! i did not need that in my life…And the worse part was walking through the door back at home and Ed lifts his lazy arse up and he goes “Hi honey, how was your day” i was colored pale, i just didn’t know anymore at that time i just went to bed. i fell asleep thinking about calling my mum and informing her that she owes me 50 pounds.

    Zainab, to be honest with you, i will not be returning to the cinema’s anytime soon..im too bruised, moreso emotionally. but you know, thats the story of my life…. I was, as you would say, in my moer… winking
    ***
    Did you watch it?

    Ah second wives..hmm, i realized i can’t yell at all of them. It’s like while im yelling at one, 10 others are sneaking past me.

    BTW.What happened to your facebook/im?

    Peace out. tongue

  • Ana

    December 6, 2010

    As Salaamu Alaikum, Zainab

    That was a wonderful true life story that you shared with us. It was very nice of you to do so. It’s been a long time, no hear. I’m happy, you are back and I pray you’re happy and well.

    You’re right, Zainab, the little demon has made a lot of progress loool We have to give him that!

    What’s your plans, (Insha Allah), if you don’t mind me asking: college, marriage, travel, chill out and wait and see what Allah decides??? Just wondering happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    December 6, 2010

    Emma, you are correct when you said, “Having children, like polygamy, doesn’t depend on whether you want them or not.”

    It was and is all Allah’s decision. Allah decides everything. Allah decided I not have children and I am very pleased with and accept Allah’s decision. Allah never put a desire in my heart for children.

    Why Allah decided for me not to have children, only Allah knows. If it pleases you to take the liberty and say what Allah’s reasons were, so be it, that is between you and Allah. Are you saying you spoke with Allah about his decision for me to not have children?

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Emma

    December 6, 2010

    Having children, like polygamy, doesn’t depend on whether you want them or not. God looked at your heart and decided (if he wills) you were not fit to bear and raise children.

  • Marcel

    December 6, 2010

    Bastian!!! why’d you beat your dad up?! 0_o

  • zainab

    December 6, 2010

    Marcel!! LONG TIMEZ!! tongue

    I so badly wanted to tell you this but i don’t have your email!

    On the subject of losing sympathy :

    You know that lady that i told you about, the 36 yr old with the 8 kids (she gave birth) so 9, well…last friday after Jumuah we were sitting at the table eating and my grandma started talking and she talked about this woman (the lady i told you about), well then she refers to this ladies husband and says….”But his first wife”….huh??? what *first wife?! HE ONLY HAS ONE WIFE!

    *TIMELINE*

    *He marries
    *He marries her (his now wife who was his second wife)
    *First wife can’t handle it so they divorce
    (no children, to my knowledge)
    *Has 8 children (they are so badly mannered they put all the kids on this blog to shame, one of the girls once flashed me, and they were not her boobies -_- ..yeah SKARD)
    *Wife gets diagnosed with breast cancer
    *Around this type he starts seeing the other woman
    *She becomes pregnant
    *His mother needs to come live with them, she says no, a few weeks later his mother dies

    Thats basically it, it’s not clear whether he married a no.2 but he probably did. The reason for telling you this is because i realized we were quick to judge, nothing in her life leaves room for the possibility that she was a second wife, yet she was…AND AT 15!!

    (God i need to get this off my chest)
    And all the while everyone around her are saying belittling things about her, like when the docters tell her she needs to get her breast removed, her husband says “Just remember, i married a woman with two boobs”…Who says sonethimg like that to his wife!! then my mom mentions to my dad that the doc said things aren’t looking good, my grandma says he better hurry up and marry the 2nd so that there’ll be someone to look after his children when the 1st dies and then to make matters worse my dad goes “he’ll need more than one wife to raise those kids”….and all this happened when i didn’t know she used to be a second wife and i used to feel so bad for her, whenever i started my dua’s she would be first and now i feel completely blindsided!

    The moral Marcel… never be quick to judge, you never know the whole story. I understand that first wives have the right to be sad and depressed and mourn for as long as they want and i’ll never judge them for what they do, even as Judith said about the woman who killed her children, i can’t judge that, but i realized as an *outsider *that you can’t outside of your *being* take sides. Make no mistake, second wives are messed up and self-serving but we all eventually get what we deserve. Like this woman i just told you about, a messed up husband, messed up kids, cancer, 3 miscarriages… and now she has to deal with this as well. If you ask me, i’d say it’s fair…if you do a wrong unto someone you deserve that it be done to you (?).

    I was wondering why you weren’t yelling at the second wives! (YOU UNDERSTAND!!) See Ana, this demons making progress.

    Onto other things have you seen harry Potter?! big grin

  • Elliot

    December 6, 2010

    You have to understand Ana, they are children and when they are yelled at, it is their nature to cry, but yell at them long enough and they will yell back, hit them hard enough and they will hit back. So never think that it’s only polygamy that God allowed their fathers, its having to watch your toys be taken away, having an absent father when it’s vacation time its having to watch them start a family and watching your mother cry when he says those are your siblings. Whatever happened to you, just remember it was your stepfather, not some one who actually has a duty towards you. Bastian, Marcel and Tyler were talking and it could have gotten to a point of closure. But you INVOLVED YOURSELF and it may be that they have become shy and have lost the will to speak their problems. Rapist, abusers, serial killers and thieves start somewhere, and in my own life story people who say things like you, never helped one bit.

  • Marcel

    December 6, 2010

    Well i’d never say that about me mum but definately, i have noticed that i don’t feel the same way as i used to about first wives and i can understand, not fully, but better, that they can sometimes have the ability to bring it upon themselves, not all the first wives obviously but some of them. It’s really to the point were i can treat them the same as i would a normal monogamous woman. It could be a good thing, meaning that im sort of losing that emotional connection to polygamy. But i guess now im going to have to keep my mouth about it, you cant exactly go around all merrily yelling “I don’t have a special place in my heart for first wives no more” . Thats suicide dear Bastian nerd

  • Ana

    December 6, 2010

    @ the children who speak of their lack of respect for me (I believe they all write from the same household)

    Perhaps your dad should disown you and ask Allah to replace you with children that are better. There’s a situation like that mentioned in the Quran.

    Little demons like you remind me of why I never wanted to have children. If that’s way harsh – tough!

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    December 6, 2010

    Bastian, perhaps some others with children will come forward and validate what you are saying. You are right; I do not have children so that may make me not have a soft heart in your eyes, but it’s difficult to listen to a young man say how he and his siblings beat their dad because Allah allowed Him to engage in polygamy, because it caused pain and hurt to their mum and their siblings. I can empathize with your pain, but not with your actions. My step-dad physically brutalized me and my siblings and took us all through hell, but not one of us disrespected him verbally or physically until the day he died. We had much respect and regard for him. Some of you have exhibited a blatant disrespect for your elders and yourself. I don’t care whether it hurts your feelings for me to say this because if you’re old enough to be on an adult forum, you’re old enough hear the truth.

    This is an open house. no need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Bastian

    December 6, 2010

    But see Ana, your not a mum, and you don’t have a soft heart so you can say that and you can’t understand. What you can do is blaze the trail toward your own happiness but you thus far, have not been able to inspire me to become a better person. All you have is yourself to think about.

  • Bastian

    December 6, 2010

    To be quite honest I don’t really care for her anymore, at first when she was sad i used to say “ok mum, go rest i’ll take care of it” but now if she wants to cry I leave her.

  • Ana

    December 5, 2010

    “How Has Polygamy Affected Children?”

    It causes some to become rebellious, disrespectful, mean spirited, evil little buggers!

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • marcel

    December 5, 2010

    Lol no ,i know what you mean.. I have issues with polygamous men and subsequent wives reprimanding me as well. I get all like “are you fo real”, it’s no disrespect, it’s just that you don’t see yourself in those people so you don’t see where they’re coming from.

    Thats why with all my fathers witnesses, i don’t associate with them, you get an uneasy feeling and you smell a stench coming out of them, i don’t know if it’s just me, but don’t come be apart of something that messed my life up then have the audacity to smile at me.

    Hows your mum though? I haven’t met any legit first wives who’ve made it through, they’re always down then maybe they’ll have a few seconds of happiness but its always shortlived

  • Bastian

    December 5, 2010

    Yes, that exactly the same, The part when everyone yells at you. i mean sure they have like an idea of why you have whatever problem they’re yelling at you for but they’re still yelling at you, and it’s not like it’s constructive.

    I thought about you the other day because i had done something unIslamic and this guy was all yelly then he said “..and your actions re not in conformity with the Qur’an…” and i lol’ed, and the reason this man is such a joke to me is because when my father and “her” got married he was there and not once did he say, “um listen here, can you spare a moment of thought for your children.” fuck no!! he was a bloody witness, so i mean who does he think he is to reprimand me. I swear when he was done i wanted to tell him of every wrong that his kids have ever done, unIslamic wouldn’t even of covered it!!

    This all happened because i get very toche when “those” type of people reprimand/yell at me.

  • Ana

    December 4, 2010

    Marcel,

    I don’t know about your goal of 20. Some of us are much, much older than that and we are still *ucked up surprise So don’t put pressure on yourself to get fixed by then. Just take one day at a time. You don’t want to burden yourself by restricting yourself to a certain time frame.

    You know what I’ve found? Many who suffered much as a kid or lacked much materially as a kid gained much in later years and those who had much as a kid, lost much when they got older. I’ve known of that to happen a lot.

    I grew up very poor until my mom remarried and until I was about 14 years old. Before then I had to watch all the kids around me having the best of everything, all except me and my siblings. That really hurt. To live in the worst dilapidated house, hand-me-down clothes from a church collection or somewhere, no money for milk and cookies at school etc. was the pits. It made me not like who I was. Once my mom remarried, we began to live lavishly; however, I still had to deal with an abusive step-dad until I went away to college and he and my mom divorced.

    After college, I got a really good professional job and I began to prosper. I accepted Islam and began to prosper more and help my close Muslim (non-biological) family with their business and all. I kept reading Quran and studying and trying to learn as much about Islam as I could. And then I got hit with polygamy and you know that story. My life turned upside down. My whole life changed drastically, but at the same time I kept prospering more and more and kept turning to Allah more and more. I had to in order to maintain my sanity. Suddenly, truth and reality hit me in the face about what I had been fighting all along – that Allah put Carolinah and Alex together and he loves her and wants to be with her. Suddenly the pain went away and everything became clear.

    Your life will get better, Marcel. We just have to stop resisting so much and stop fighting. It’s hard to do and we can’t do it on our own. We can’t make it happen. We have to implore the help of Allah, plead and beg to Him, as He is the only one that can help us. You’re not as *ucked up as you think. You’re just living life, as we all are doing. In a sense, we’re all *ucked up in one way or another, but we’re on our way to getting fixed happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • marcel

    December 4, 2010

    I was thinking about realistically speaking, i’ve never been a fan of reality, mine atleast. Because realistically speaking my father will only have realization dawn on him at the bare minimum of 3 years. By then i’ll be 20, i can’t be 20 and fucked up, really, it’s like when you’re that old you should at least have a sane head on you’re shoulders.

    So realistically speaking, i’ll have to fix me myself surprise , it kinda sucks that you’ve been fucked over by someone and for the rest of your life whatever bad you do, you are answerable for it. It feels like your robbed of your days when you’re allowed to be carefree and not have responsibilities and it’s not like you can say “ok imma have my carefree days from 17 to 27 instead so i’ll take responsibility now”. I don’t know, it was always fascinating and inviting seeing all the children running home from school all happy, going to play at a friends house and you have to stay home and look after your mum and at the same time worry that she wasn’t going to yell at her because of her mood. I would have loved to do those things, I understand that certain things happen for a reason, but still….sometimes you yearn to have lived those kids adventures or at the very least have their memories.

  • Bastian

    December 4, 2010

    Lol…but Marcel tongue …at the end of the day, whichever way you look at it, there is still the same amount of water in that glass… realistically speaking?

  • Marcel

    December 4, 2010

    We could bitch and moan OR….we could look at the glass half full…

  • Tyler

    December 4, 2010

    9/half and still not getting better. I wouldn’t recommend it for those fathers who want their kids to think highly of them.

  • Ana

    December 3, 2010

    Welcome Bastian,

    We’re happy to have you here happy I hope other young people like you respond to your comment so you could all share experiences, learn, heal and grow with one another. It’s very nice you’ve joined us.

    Feel free to let us know what you’re feeling and thinking, if you’d like SmileyCentral.com

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • bastian

    December 3, 2010

    “First kids”

    Hows polygamy treating you? Im just curious to know if it gets better, I’ve been living it for close to 8 years now and i think less of myfather/2ndwives/adults each day.

  • crystal

    April 23, 2010

    From what I have been reading, the difference between Mormon Polygamy and Muslim Polygamy that I have been reading on this board is the abuse that often occurs in Fundamentalist Mormon Polygamous groups where women are second class citizens. Carolyn Jessop states one instance in her book Escaped where one of her children had a broken arm and her husband refused to take the child to the doctor. She knew that if she called the ambulance and they found out that her husband had not consented to transport the child to the hospital, they would not take the child even with her consent as the mother. She took the child to a hospital outside of her community and got the child treated.

  • Ana

    March 30, 2010

    Mai, As Salaamu Alaikum Mai! Hellooooo. Are you out there? I hope you didn’t abandon us, Mai. We could really use your good advise and wise words here, Mai. I have no intentions to refute with what you say, if that’s a concern.

    As Judith said, we’d like to have you back in the fold happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    March 30, 2010

    Wa Alaikum As Salaam Okhti Khadijah Z,

    I’m somewhat left speachless. Here all this time I thought my situation was monumental. It no where compare to a family with four wives sharing one husband and all the children. I could imagine how overwhelming it gets for you and all the wives and children. Trying to hold on and maintain your sanity in the midst of the chaos must be far from easy. It has to be only by the grace of Allah that you’ve held on for so long.

    It’s a blessing for the wives and children to have someone special like you there for them. What’s you’ve been advising them, to me it sounds like very good advice, advising the children not to hate the other wives and to try to love their siblings etc. You must know it is so important that they have you to go to and confide in. That has to be comforting to them to a large degree. It’s so sad because children don’t understand and the 16 year old is going through all that adolescent stuff that’s way tough in itself. I used to turn to my aunt to talk with when I needed a confident the few times that she visited and it helped me tremendously.

    Khadijah Z, I wish there was something I could say that would be more helpful. Since I have no children and have had very little communications with any, I don’t know what to say that would be useful. Since I don’t communicate with my husband’s other wife, I can’t even give you any advice regarding dealing with them, other than don’t do what I did – antagonize and terrorize the other wives happy No one needs to tell you that LOL I will certainly, Insha Allah, continue to make much duah for you and your family. Stay strong and never despairs. Things will get easier. Allah’s promise is true. So ease has to be on its way.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Khadijah Z

    March 30, 2010

    Asalaam Alaykum okhti Ana, yes a very good topic.
    Living it every day!! well here is what goes on here and mind you its not as easy as it was before tho it wasn’t easy then either, a lot more problems due to my husband took a position outside the country. Yes sibling rivalry, fights, nit picking, real out fist blows between the kids, jealousy, even i hate you some times, but i see as they get older, they dont care much to be around there half siblings, and even my step daughter the oldest of them all, now in her early teens is asking questions like why dose my dad only love that wife?, or why did you marry my dad?, even why dose my dad keep pushing us at her every thing is about her? expressions of hatred towards a step mother or 2 i think can be traumatic esp for the girls when seeing there mother upset or crying. I’m not saying its like this in all family’s but for mine at this point it is. dad is not around, sons fighting or yelling at there mothers to provoke them. very seldom is there peace between the kids or even the mothers for that matter, each has their reasons why they are saying or doing what is causing the problems and believe me i do understand but try and keep my distance from it, cutting it short so to speak so im not pulled in. this is not always easy. However when i think of so many family’s I no back in the states who were not in this type of marriage, of their husbands cheating running around with so many women making babies with them it seemed pretty much the same the kids blamed there half siblings mothers for breaking up their family’s and so on. I dont no yet what to say to ease any of it at this point, other then trying to help each mother with her childern, telling the childern this is not right you have to love ur sibling, and not to hate that wife its not her fault its your dad who should of hid it so not to make it obvious to you or anyone else for that matter, with out feeling hurt in my own heart. ok think ill let it go for now and get back to this at an other time, InshaAllah

  • Ana

    March 28, 2010

    That is an excellent exercise!!! I read it so easily; it was absolutely amazing. Thank you for sending it, so we could check it out happy

    You’re right about me connecting the word ‘prophet’ with the name ‘job’. It’s been said that we can’t even trust our own senses. It’s so true. God is the only Reality.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Donald

    March 27, 2010

    It’s an easy mistake to make if reading quickly. Our brains often read what we think we see, not what’s actually on the page. You’re used to connecting the word ‘prophet’ with the name ‘Job’, so that’s what your brain reads. Here’s an exercise that demonstrates this principle:

    ‘Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn’t mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh?’

    Sorry, now we’re really off-topic!

  • Ana

    March 27, 2010

    Ooooops, that was a colossal blunder LOL. I think I must have been suffering from a moment of dyslexia. Thank you Donald for correcting me on that one. I just glazed over the article with the intention of going back later to read it when I had more time to read it thoroughly.

    I wonder how many people out there said, what the …? – was wondering what I was talking about, but didn’t want to ask lol. The dapper duck is on his toes.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Donald

    March 27, 2010

    I don’t think she mentioned the prophet Job did she? In the first paragraph she says, ‘From my teachings, I knew that the prophet’s job was to dictate what was best for us and that the words he spoke came straight from God.’ Here, she’s talking about the job (or role) of the so-called prophet who leads the cult. I think she’s talking about Warren Jeffs or his father Rulon Jeffs. If you read the whole excerpt you can see the unquestioned power these men had over the lives of those in the community.

  • Ana

    March 27, 2010

    Thank you for the excerpt, Donald. I have to finish reading it. It began with the mention of Prophet Job (Iyub). I LOVE the story of Prophet Job. His story keeps me going sometimes. It’s truly inspiring. If we make it through our tests/trial, and do it seeking the pleasure of God, He rewards us immensely. Now that’s worth striving for! happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Donald

    March 27, 2010

    Has anyone read Elissa Wall’s book ‘Stolen Innocence’? I read an excerpt from it here: http://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/Excerpt-Stolen-Innocence-by-Elissa-Wall

    What a heartbreaking story. I don’t understand the sickness that exists in some of these cults. How do grown adults become so blinded to the evil of it, when even a 14-year-old girl knew what was happening was wrong? I don’t know if I should read the whole book or not.

    I hope I’m not derailing the discussion. Obviously this is more about the abuse of power and religious fear than polygamy itself.

  • marcel

    March 26, 2010

    Salaam

    tongue As far as self esteem goes, i really couldn’t say, i’ve never had any. Always been a shy boy big grin

    My two older brothers, polygamy has affected the most, i think. They’re more distant now than before and they don’t really talk much, i don’t know if it’s a phase but it’s been going on ever since.

    My mum never says anything bad or good about #2, she doesn’t talk about her at all, unless necessary (like that schedule and stuff). My dad and her has 2 kids (two girls)..i don’t like them, many reasons of which only few has to do with the polygamy fact, i don’t like their mum much either, she gets some sort of sick pleasure introducing my brothers and myself as her daughters “brothers”. Even though biologically we are, i don’t feel any sort of connection to them. Its like if they were in need of an organ donor and i was the only one that matched i’d probably tell them to ride along.

    As i’ve said before, my relationship with my father isn’t of the best and i HIGHLY doubt it will change, right now i’m content with hating him and i have yet to feel bad about it. Im sure in his opinion he “tries” but it doesn’t come off well, i think he tries harder with me because i don’t openly humiliate him as my other siblings do.

    My mums kids and #2 kids don’t really mingle much, we live close enough but we don’t set play dates. (dear ol’ daddy and #2) once decided to let the kids meet without the knowledge of my mother and they got into a bit of a fight (which obviously the physically superior team-that’s *US* won).

    The younger kids its doesn’t affect much but they understand what’s happening and why things are the way they are, Sometimes they’ll hear my mum and her lady friends talking about it or it will be my gramps (mums dad) who will (without sugar coating it) will say what’s happening or what’s on his mind.

    i hope that helped will your questions CM

    wasalaam

  • Haji Rafiq

    March 26, 2010

    A interesting and important topic indeed. The adult children of my first wife were definately not happy when I married. Over the years they got used to the idea as they realized that no one is perfect. Now the sons meet my second wife (and her children) while the daughter still does not. But even the daughter wants to meet her (half) brother and sister. (We live in different countries). When she comes here she brings presents for them. The children therefore now have a nice relationship with each other, limited only due to the age difference and distance. I do not think that my younger children (who really experience the polygamy lifestyle, me being absent every second day/night) feel a lack of connection with me. At first they sort of thought it natural that fathers are not always home (I also used to travel on business). But, yes, the figure of the mother becomes more important as she is the one that is always home. (same in ‘normal’ families where the father goes out to work really). Our lifestyle just brings a bit more ‘overtime’ with it…

  • Rebeckah

    March 25, 2010

    The research I have read indicates that children tend to have self esteem, education, and relationship problems when coming from a polygamous background. They often feel a lack of connection with their father and often have conflict with their half-siblings. Of course this isn’t necessarily the case in every polygamous household but research indicates it happens more often in polygamy than in monogamy.

  • Margaret

    March 25, 2010

    From my own experience of growing up in a Polygamst commune I can say that those men were under tremendous pressure and not the best fathers and husbands by today’s standards. For most fathers in today’s society coming home to one noisy chaotic house is stress enough, imagine more than one home with those same circumstances. Men in my community were taught to bring their children into salvation by whatever means necessary and what a man did with his family in the privacy of his own home was his responsibility. I know peronally of men who abandoned their families or committed suicide under the pressure of having to care for so many women and children.

    However, I am a liberal woman and very accepting of alternative lifestyles. If men and women can be loving supportive parents under polygamyies special circumstances than I don’t see the children being affected any differently than any other alternative family. Being loved and supported is far more important than the circumstances behind it.

    For myself growing up in polygamy I never felt loved by either of my parents. I was simply another child in the midst of a household of children and learning to love others as an adult did not come easy to me.

  • K. J.

    March 25, 2010

    Excellent line of discussion.
    My Wife and I have no children, the woman who would be our 2nd Wife has 3 children. I would like a combined household or at least a Duplex, so the children are I think more of an issue than would be case if completly seperate homes were to be the arrangement. My stance has been: As for what the relation between Myself, My First Wife, and the Mother of the children, the kids can infer what they want. As long as they have someone that cares about them (three someone’s in this case) what real difference does it make?