Is There a Lack of Communication and Respect in Polygamous Marriages?

polygamy 411I received an email from a 21-year-old female who was conducting research on the topic of relationships. She has read some of the stories from those of us here at polygamy 411. She thinks some of the husbands lack respect for their wives when they (the husbands) become polygamous. She believes there is a lack of communication between the husbands and the wives, as well. She stated she thinks Arab people and western converts seem to engage in polygamous marriages more than people from other countries.

As it’s time for a new post, I thought this would be a good topic for it. I, therefore, have posted my reply to the young lady. I wrote it quickly and briefly, as I was quite busy at the time. What I wrote is as follows:

“Firstly, it appears you look at the entire polygamy matter from an emotional perspective, and how you feel, think and would live your life. I assume you are not Muslim.

To understand what these women and myself have gone through or are going through, you must first understand that Allah who is God permits polygamy for men. He did not say men have to wait until a wife is ready to deal with or accept polygamy. She should accept and embrace that Allah swt (Great and glorious is He) has permitted polygamy for men, if she is a BELIEVER. I doubt whether there would be a polygamous man on this planet, if a man had to wait for his wives to be emotionally or psychologically accepting of it. What Allah says is paramount. A woman who accepts what Allah says will accept polygamy. It’s all about belief. How she becomes accepting of polygamy or not is on her. It depends on her belief or lack of belief in Allah.

The husband should not be blamed for how his wife/wives react to Allah’s decisions. She is accountable to Allah for how she deals with what Allah permits. Allah permits polygamy for men, which means he is allowed to do it. Now, he can do what Allah permits or make what Allah permits unlawful for himself in trying to live by his wife/wives desires.

I don’t see a lack of respect in that a man marries another, although the first wife doesn’t condone it. Allah permits polygamy, which is the bottom line. A lot of the pain, anguish, and suffering that a woman experiences is due to something lacking in her with regard to her faith and belief in Allah swt.

Whether these men met up with other women to become their second, third or fourth wives in an adulterous relationship or an innocent meeting at work or however it came about should only matter in that everyone will account to Allah for whatever wrong they’ve done. We must remember Allah is an Oft Forgiving, Merciful God, as well.

You mentioned there appears to be a lack of communication between the husbands and wives. Perhaps there is. Lack of communication exists in all types of relationships, in monogamous marriages, or relationships without marriage, as well. Lack of communication exists between people. Nothing is special about polygamy with regard to a lack of communication. A husband hides his marriage to another because he doesn’t want to ruffle the feathers of his first wife. It happens. People in life hide a lot of things as they don’t want to deal with the repercussions.

Reverts to Islam (those who converted to Islam) are more likely to try to accept polygamy, as they sincerely, honestly, most of the time want to learn and live Islam. Most reverted with (note: I meant to say, “have”) a sincere desire to be Muslim and live Islam. They didn’t grow up with the cultural Islam that those who were raised “Muslim” did. Many raised Muslims have never read the Quran. They only go by what their forefathers passed down to them. They only go on heresy (note: I meant to say “hearsay).”

I think the young lady asked very good questions. Many who read the blog probably have had the same questions, but simply didn’t come forward to ask them. I invited the young lady to join us here for further discussion of the topic.

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Share/Save

Don't Be Shy. Leave a Reply

* Denotes Required Field

363 Comments

  • ana

    March 13, 2014

    UmmmIt appears some women have reduced themselves to the equivalent of a “FREE public toilet” Pooping Gymnastics or a human sperm receptacle

    3D Spinning Toilet

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    March 13, 2014

    @Cheryl,

    You judge Muslim women based on YOUR belief about people and life. Most of us women here believe in our religion and way of life. We want to live it in the way Allah has prescibed – a decent, good, pure way of life . Are you suggesting that the women here be celibate or fornicate? How are they to have a family that way?

    Maybe you should take a good look at your way of life. If anyone is being raped by men, it’s a single woman who allows Men, many and any man to use and abuse her body without her having the benefits and respect that marriage is expected to provide.

    There is no room for selfishness in Islam. It is not our way. Every woman should have a husband if it is what Allah has decreed for her.

    Thank you for commenting.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Cheryl

    March 13, 2014

    Why marry at all it would be easier to remain single and free then share a husband and husbands that take liberties sexually with a wife that has not consented in the USA is a rapist and may be convicted as such. Women should always do as they please

  • ana

    February 16, 2014

    As Salaamu Alaikum and Peace to All,

    It’s a good time to begin a new thread, which is:

    http://polygamy411.com/allah-permits-polygamy-for-all-men/

    I kindly ask all to join us there to continue our discussions or begin a new happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 16, 2014

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Peace to All,

    While we were on the topic a bit about intimacy. Some have said how difficult it is to be intimate with their husbands as they are trying to cope with a polygamous lifestyle. Try not to be so hard on yourselves. Insha Allah, He will make it easier for you. Ask Allah for His help. Always ask Allah swt for help with everything.

    Some say a woman has to have sexual relations with her husband whenever he wants to (other than particular times such as when she is on her menses). Allah swt in the Holy Quran in ayat (more than one) tells a man that he may “APPROACH” his wife when he wants to. Some have twisted what Allah says to mean a man can go and GET it when he wants. “Approach” is different than “get”.

    Of course, it goes without saying, sexual relations is a very important part of marriage, undeniably. There will be circumstances when women find themselves just unable to engage in sexual relations for some reasons. She should do her best to fulfill her obligation in that department. Her husband has certain rights over her and she has certain rights over him. Nonetheless, a woman should not feel that she is her husband’s sex slave, so to speak. I thought it important to mention it – with regard to “approach” and “get”.

    It’s about 7:20 a.m. where I am, so I’m off to sleep now. Chat with you all a bit later, Insha Allah.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 16, 2014

    MsA, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    I’m so happy Allah swt sent you here to be with us. Alhumdulliah, the blog is helpful to you. We all try to help each other as best we can. Thank you for the duahs. I intend to make them for you, as well. It’s so good to hear you are praying more these days. I pray Allah swt is well pleased with you. Try your best to keep up the good work.

    You said you wish Allah swt could hear you, guide you and make life easier for you. He can do all those things for you without a doubt. You, however, must believe that He can, and have no doubt whatsoever. Doubt is very bad.

    I just read an ayah from the Quran a bit earlier this morning in which Allah says the following:

    “When my servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on me: Let them also, with a will, listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way.”
    Quran: Surah 2, ayah 186.

    MsA, you must believe that Allah swt answers our prayers. He says He guides those who seek His guidance. He tells us to patiently persevere and pray. Allah swt will make things clear for you regarding your situation. Keep doing your part in serving Him.

    I recommend you read some Quran each day when you can. Read as much as is easy for you. It’s what Allah tells us to do – to read as much of the Quran as is easy for us, preferably in the morning hours, as Allah says the reading in the morning carries its testimony. I advise my husband to read even one or a few ayat each day. It’s a good beginning and it’s way better than reading none. Remember Allah guides and He teaches.

    You’re going to be alright, MsA. Keep turning to Allah and He’ll give you clarity. No one can really tell you what to do with your intended. Pray to Allah for the answer.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ummof4

    February 16, 2014

    As-salaamu Alaikum and hello to all,

    Ms A, Allah does hear you and will answer your du’ah (prayers to Him). Make du’ah at any time of the day and Allah will hear and snswer.

    Alhamdulillah (all praises are for Allah) that you have found this blog. It is helping you to see your situation more clearly. I agree that if your fiance cannot take care of his finances now and you have to help him then he will not be able to take care of you financially if you marry him. Right now he is used to giving you money and that will probably not change.

    First wives and second wives have regrets about being married at times. For the second wives I believe it is more about the fact that sharing is more difficult than they thought. Everyone who marries has expectations about what their marriage will be like. Many women believe marriage will always be like a honeymoon, always sweet and pleasant, particularly if they are married before the age of 25. They don’t anticipate the changes that happen in men and women as they get older and as they become more comfortable with their spouses.

    Women who have pleasant personalities who marry married men often do not understand how or why their husbands’ first wives do not want to be nice to them. A new wife can begin to think that the first wife is a mean ogre, even if she doesn’t say or do anything mean to the second wife, she just doesn’t want to have anything to do with her. The new wife begins to think that she is the nice, loving wife and the first wife is the one who does not truly love their husband. This is only for new wives with pleasant personalities, not those who marry a husband with the intention of causing the breakup of his first marriage.

    So Ms A, seek advice from other Muslims in your area whom you trust. You mentioned that you rely on your fiancé to teach you Islam, rely on others as well. Attend classes and lectures, particularly on marriage and the rights of husbands and wives; if no classes are available then go online and listen to some lectures or enroll in online classes on marriage.

    May Allah guide us all to be those who are deserving of His Love.

  • MsA

    February 15, 2014

    as salaamu alaikum everyone

    @Ina, my patents don’t know my religion until now, but it’s ok for me to tell them about this. But if i marry as a second wife, there’s no way for them to understand. I believe no parents want to see their daughter to be a second wife, even in an Islamic country. I asked him imagine your sister go to marry as a second wife, will you and your parents be happy? I asked him if your daughter marry as a second wife, you will be happy? He was quite, no answer. I am the only child in my family, i don’t think my parents can accept this.
    I am also financially stable, i support his life here, and he does job randomly because of permanent residence.
    Sometimes his family in pakistan need money urgently, so i send my money there. Then i think if he cannot support his family now, how can he support my life?
    i believe when someone is in the story, she cannot look into the situation clearly, like me. Sometimes i feel i should leave everything let him handle his own problems, and the second moment i change to be emotional feeling should stay in his life and support him. So i believe others like you all here can give good advice outside the story.
    @Ana, you really give a good support for all of us to share experience here. We can help each other. But i am a young girl, 20s, new Muslim, so i usually don’t give any advice here, because i think i don’t have good experience to say to advice. What i can do is make duah for you all.
    I read some stories here (couldn’t remember name) , when they got marry as a second wife they were quite confident quite happy, but after a while things started going wrong. I am not offending anyone here, i don’t want i will be regret one day. So i wrote my story here, i seek help here.
    I started praying more these days, i .wish Allah can hear me can guide me can make my life easier.

  • ummof4

    February 15, 2014

    As-salaamu alaikum and hello to all,

    I think my last post was lost so I’m going to attempt to rewrite it. Rewrite is never as good as the original.

    Ina,
    It seems that your head and heart are finding some acceptance and peace with the concept of polygyny. Please continue to hold your husband to paying your household bills. A man should be taking care of his first family before he decides to take care of a second family. Stay strong and depend on Allah. How much time will your husband spend in UK and how much time in Malaysia?

    Laila, you are not a bad wife. All of us have issues from time to time. I am going to do some analyzing now. Please forgive me if I offend you.

    According to what you have shared with us, when you began your marriage 13 years ago you were 19 years old. You married a man 20 years your senior. Your husband did not spend any nights with you, just daytime hours. Each night he went home to his other wife and his children. This situation went on until recently when you insisted that your husband give you equal time (or at least almost equal time).

    Laila, I believe that your husband and his other wife looked at you as his girlfriend with a marriage license (since polygyny is legal in your country). Maybe you even thought of yourself that way. (Did you want a boyfriend or a husband at age 19?) Although your husband provided for you financially, he did not treat you as a real wife. His other wife was his real wife. She was the one that he went home to every night and she was the one who had his children.

    You probably thought that not living with your husband as his wife and sending him back home each night to his other wife and children was a noble, generous gesture on your part. You wanted him to be with his children each night and not disrupt their lives. However, by doing this, you did not gain the respect of his first wife; she did not see you as a woman and a wife, she saw you as his girlfriend.

    Now you are ready for a change and you have changed. You have become more serious about Islam. You have began to cover. You have many Muslim sisters as friends on this blog. You realize that as a wife you have certain rights and you have demanded them. You have received more time with your husband. But because you decided to change didn’t mean that your husband and his other wife decided to change. They were very comfortable with the situation as it was, and now you are trying to take them out of their comfort zone.

    It may take a long time for your co-wife to get used to the fact that you have more time with your husband. She may never get used to it. Don’t let that bother you. But don’t be angry with her because her life is changing dramatically. She probably never liked the fact that her husband married you and maybe she never will. Remember, you married a married man!

    You say that you love and care about your husband and he loves and cares about you. So, talk to him and ask him to come home to you. Be calm and send an email. Then when you two are face to face have an intelligent, frank discussion about what you feel needs to happen in your marriage. Let him talk as well about what he feels needs to happen in your marriage. Work it out between the two of you. Before you have the talk make 2 rakah together then make du’ah that Shaytan does not enter the discussion with you two.

    Don’t worry if your co-wife finds out information about you. As long as it’s not extremely personal, just let it go. If she annoys you, you don’t have to communicate with her.

    On another note, it sounds as if your husband is in no hurry to have more children. That’s the downside of marrying someone much older. If you still want to adopt, look into it and present him with the information. Maybe you can get a baby. He says he wants to wait until you have one of your own, then adopt. How long does he expect you to wait to have one of your own and how many miscarriages does he want your body to go through? The older he gets the less he will want to have more children. May Allah help you to be successful soon with having a child or finding a child to foster.

    Laila, hang on in there. It’s been 13 years of commitment. That’s not to be taken lightly. Just remember, you may never have the respect of your husband’s other wife, don’t let that be a sore spot in your marriage. Work on the relationship between you and your husband, whom you love and who loves you.

    Shaytan hates us; let’s show that we hate him too.
    A oodhu billaahee minash shaytanir rajeem(I seek refuge from Shaytan the cursed one)

  • ana

    February 15, 2014

    I think the site was down for a while. I had to restart the server.

    @Aishah,

    It’s the coolest thing how Allah swt brings things to our attention when we least expect it. Here your hubs stand by the no celebrating non-Muslim holidays and you find a receipt for a birthday cake for his other. The problem is that he has a different set of rules for her and you.

    Although, I don’t see that having a cake for her is a big deal. We can’t hide the fact that we have birthdays. We keep track of how old we are when they roll around. It’s the anniversary of the day we were born. We refer to it on many documents that we fill out. Even if we say we don’t celebrate our birhtdays, we darn sure know when it is.

    As long as we don’t celebrate ourselves, what is the problem? As long as we don’t have a huge celebration bash, saying how wonderful it is that we were born, with pics of us on the wall and a big hoopla, then what’s the big deal about acknowledging our birthdays? Some say they don’t celebrate non-Muslim holidays, but do a whole lot more that non-Muslims do. I don’t get it. i dont know It’s insignificant in the realm of things. There are Muslims who celebrate the Prophet Muhammad’s (PBUH) birthday. In some Muslim countries they have more holidays than in the United States.

    Aishah, I certainly understand how you were upset that he tells you that any celebrating of yours, his and the children’s birthdays are off limits, but when it comes to his other, she gets a cake and whatever else.

    I’m sure there are some Muslims who say they don’t celebrate any holidays only because they don’t want to spend the money and it has nothing to do with Islam. Islam can be a convenient excuse though. I’ve heard that there are many men in a city that has a Muslim community near where I live and the men put their wives in burkah and sneakers. I’ve seen a whole lot of them. It’s not really about their modesty and chastity. It more about the convenience for the husbands of not having to spend any money on clothing their wives. The wives wear their black get up and sneakers and are good to go for years. I can only shake my head.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ahmad

    February 15, 2014

    Maryam,
    My theory is whenever they get a chance they are in a hurry and dont use condom thats how they have so many kids happy

  • maryam

    February 15, 2014

    Mari2, and others

    How do Pakistani families manage to have so many children when there’s little “private space”? When do husb/wife get a chance? It must be similar in many muslim countries where living with extended family is common?

  • maryam

    February 15, 2014

    Ina,

    It sounds like you are trying hard to get to a place where polygamy doesnt mean the end of things for you.

    Good on you for getting finances sorted before they marry so if hub is reckless it wont impact on you and your kids inshallah.

    Ironically, the Malaysian family probably assume he’s great managing money being able to keep a family in London and buy a home in Malaysia.

  • maryam

    February 15, 2014

    Ana, im really surprised to hear people on Hajj dont get up for fajr!

    Yo must have thought for a minute you got on the wrong plane hahaha

  • maryam

    February 15, 2014

    I enjoyed reading Mari2′s posts about your trip, thanks for sharing. The lifestyle would be very hard on someone who liked alot of “alone time” or a woman who likes/needs mental/intellectual stimulation.

    Laila, im feeling sad for you. Be patient. Husband is likely reacting to you distancing yourself from him? He’s probably confused that you havent cared if he’s home or not and then when he said he wont be home you got upset?

    Ana thankyou, you were spot on about womens’ psyche. And what you said re resentment. I can see what im doing and I do have to let a few things go.

    Aisha, the funny thing is you probably wouldnt have cared about receiving gifts before polygamy, but knowing another woman is getting them brings out our jealousy. Inshallah you dont feel bothered about it for too long.

    Salam sisters, its so nice to have this place to share without being judged

  • ana

    February 15, 2014

    @As Salaamu Alaikum & Peace to All,

    @Mari2,

    I enjoyed reading about your stay in Pakistan. I’m sure the experience was exciting for you. I would be right at home with the women; I don’t get up till about 11:00 a.m. or a bit later, myself. It’s a beautiful thing LOL. I’m a little confused though. Do the women work hard or hardly work? Sounds as though they sit about chatting and eating all day. Gail had mentioned about the lack of privacy and they all have an area where they congregate. It’s interesting.

    About prayer, it’s good you and your husband did what Allah wants us to do and you both prayed. I went to Hajj with a huge Pakistani group and many didn’t get up for Fajr (morning prayer) when we women were all together in the huge tent. Before going to Hajj, we all had to attend classes and our host let us know to expect there would be some who would not get up to pray, and not to be surprised. I found some to follow my lead when I got up and prayed. I was really looking for them to take the lead though.

    Again, I think many people raised Muslim become laxed in practicing our religion where in those who revert really want the religion and believe in it, unless one reverts because the husband is Muslim or she wants to marry. It then becomes a whole another ball game. Reverting wasn’t to serve and worship Allah, but to please a husband or compete with a Muslim wife.

    @Laila,

    Men are not petty like we women can be. Your husband probably thinks nothing of communicating with his other wife about whatever comes to mind. On the other hand, she knows exactly what she’s doing; I’m sure. She fishes, finds out your business, let you know she knows, knowing it will upset you and you fall for it. It’s not worth the drama. Let her know and let her know you don’t care. What difference does it make anyhow in the realm of things. It’s just how I see it.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Laila

    February 15, 2014

    Dear Ina, in our argument today he did say that he does want kids. So in that sense my question was sort of answered. Sorry I cant type much. My brains are numb.

  • Laila

    February 15, 2014

    Ummof4, sometimes I REALLY feel that I am not a good wife. I am not following Islam the right way. I dont even have patience. I feel so shitty about myself in the sense that I dont have a sense of calmness and love towards him.

  • Laila

    February 15, 2014

    Dear Ummof4, I really am not using sex as a weapon. But sometimes I do get a real upset and Im the type that when I get upset, I just can’t make love.

    We had another argument today. He was supposed to be home by lunch. Thanx to our tiff the other day we didnt communicate for days till today. He just curtly messaged and said that he will be home at night. I blew up. Because hes supposed to be home by lunch and now thanxto work….. he wants to stretch it. How is this spending time together? Seriously? So another argument went down, hes staying at his other apartment. Took his clothes for Monday.

    We both have decided to give each other two weeks to think where this marriage is heading. I finally told him that Ive lost all respect towards him. Everytime she finds out abt my personal stuff it hurts me to bits.

    He just doesnt care I guess.

    salam

  • Ina

    February 15, 2014

    @ Maryam,
    I am a little worried about how he will handle the finances. I am one who organised our finances usually paying the bills with my own money as I mentioned before. He’s agreed to change the mortgage payment so it comes out from his account instead of mine but I still need to make sure he gives more to cover our other living costs. Told him I am not going to foot the bill anymore. If he wants to follow the Quran then he needs to apply it to all aspects of his life and not pick and choose bits that suit him. He’s always been the sort that thinks he has more money than he actually has so will spend without worrying if he has enough to cover other incoming costs. For example, we will get paid company dividends soon so a large sum of money will be in his account. He thinks great, got loads of money to spend. Whereas, I’d be thinking is that sum of money enough the next 6 months of mortgage payments (his monthly salary alone would not be sufficient to cover the monthly mortgage payment). So I need to make sure he understands that he needs to set aside x amount for future mortgage payments.

  • Mari2

    February 15, 2014

    It was a fun experience and everyone was very nice. I just couldn’t live there long term. The women don’t do much. Sure they visit relatives if they have a man to drive them, or they go to the bazar if they have someone to drive them, but none of them go out anywhere except to school. We just pretty much sat around chatting with visitors or each other. The men did all the food shopping.

    The food was soooooo good. Never ate such delicious bananas in my life. We did visit a new grocery store in town…it was very western style with a huge assortment of many of the brands that can be purchased in the US. Pricey though. The only thing was that an employee follows shoppers through the aisles to prevent theft.

    Many people in Pakistan love ketchup. I mean they love it. Ketchup Cheetos, ketchup in chicken soup, ketchup on pizza? Pizza has become very popular in M.’s town. A pizza place recently opened and we ate there. It was so so. Not too bad. Kinda reminded me of Chucky Cheese pizza. Really pricey though. The popular flavor there was fajita pizza, not that anyone can properly pronounce “fajita”.

    Everyone was very nice and hospitable. Shopping was fantastic. Even when my chador kept falling off, nobody in the public seemed to mind. Shop keepers were unfailingly polite.

    Traffic in the towns was insane. I could never drive there without accidentally running someone over. You also pretty much take your life into your own hands trying to cross the road too. Driving is freestyle…you just go where you want to go. There’s no notion of lanes. Just honk and drive.

    The separation of men and women in restaurants was different for me. We went to one soup place that did not have a family dining area. So the men went in and ate soup and we women and children ate our soup in the car. Eating soup in a car full of clamoring children was not really fun, but that’s how things roll there.

    Despite wearing chador in public or dupatta when azhan came on, the women in his family don’t cover their hair. M’s sister is married and her MIL lives in SWAT where rules are much stricter for women. When relatives from that area came to visit, then all the women stayed covered with chador and the men all remained in one room.M’s sister explained it by saying “They are swati” and rolling her eyes. M’s sister refuses to stay at her inlaws because they won’t permit her to go outside or use a cell phone. “Swati” is apparently not a term of endearment.

  • Mari2

    February 15, 2014

    I also want to point out that due to the small house that M’s family lives in, being together as husband and wife in a room by ourselves wasn’t possible. I was aware of this and fine with it. I also was made aware that there is no such thing as your “own room” in Pakistan. Each room opens to the veranda and at any moment a/your room can be a gathering place for cousins or household children, a place to eat a meal, sew a new suit, gossip about neighbors, host a rishta etc. If you want privacy in Pakistan you might get it in the bathroom. Might.

  • Mari2

    February 14, 2014

    Ana,
    Being in Pakistan was very much good for me. It was cold, there was No heat, no net, barely electricity or running water. Yet somehow every morning I was awake before azhan/fajr. Maybe it was the roosters that woke me, maybe not. That said, I was the only woman in the home who did fajr, and my husband was the only who awoke (because I woke him)and went to mosque for fajr. Then when he came from mosque he led our niece and me in Sunrise prayer. Then we ate jawar roti and drank chai. Then somewhere after ten AM the rest of the people in the home got out of bed. Yes the girls in Pakistan work hard, but not before 11 AM in my experience.

  • Aishah 2014

    February 14, 2014

    that was receipt not reception.I kinda felt like someones well broken in jeans taken for granted,maybe dropped off at goodwill in favor of a new andshiny pair of jeans…felt a bit bad,but OK moving on ill be getting.l new clothes haircut fixing self up!

  • Aishah 2014

    February 14, 2014

    a minute for an Aishah pity party.hub staunchly defends that he doesn’t celebrerate birthdays holidays etc lectures me about things being haram.last week was 2 nd birthday.yes I saw cake reception.OK.thought I think he officlly celebrates birthdays don’t want to have problem when its for kids ( not over the top. celebration) don’t want to hear lecture again.so valentines day.I don’t really care I will buy him boxers the next day marked 50 % off….but a paper was on floor( Allah reveals) reception for card,cake, flowers ( thankfully his own account)…and he say well ” u know I don’t celebrate” I said well what about these? why be a hypocrícrite,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,went south from,,,,, therewith was hurtful!,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,m there.I gave him list of things I like perfume lotionflowers card

  • ana

    February 14, 2014

    @Ina,

    Wow, it didn’t take long for your hubs to realize he has got his work cut out for him. He did make a big boo boo by marrying someone thinking she would change. Just the little you mentioned to us about her lead me to believe she was going to be a serious piece of work. Many men don’t want polygamy once they’ve got it. I truly believe men are tested with it the same as we women are.

    You made me laugh when you stated you told your husband that you was allergic to him. When I was telling my mom about my itching and all, she asked me if it only happened when Alex was home laughing I told him what she asked. He didn’t get upset about it. My hands were itching so badly and I had and have a rash. My dermatologist prescribed an ointment called “Betamethasone Dipropionate”. It a strong medication. It was the only thing that worked. I try to use it sparingly, as it thins the skin. My allergist agreed with what she (my dermatologist) prescribed for me. He said, as well, I need to use vinyl gloves instead of latex/rubber gloves (I use them to wash dishes and to clean house etc.) He said rubber gloves could be what is causing my allergic reaction. I ordered some gloves online, but they sent me the wrong size. I hope they work. They’re exam gloves. My allergist said stop using fabric softeners as well – the liquid and the things you throw in the dryer. I dunno if I’m going to do it. Ina, when I have medication that is in a capsule. I cut it in a spoon and take the powder out. I lick the powder off the spoon and swallow some water after it. The powder sure is nasty, but what the heck.

    Regarding intimacy with your husband, as you know, withholding sex won’t bring the two of you any closer for sure. Do what you need to do to psych yourself up for it – lingerie, perfume, good thoughts about it before hand. You can’t think negative thoughts about it and think you will have a good experience. I ain’t gonna happen. I don’t know what else to suggest i dont know Prayer. Allah swt answers prayers.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 14, 2014

    @Ms A,

    Yes, it is good to hear from you. I’m glad you are still with us. I had to look up your initial post, as I had forgotten your story. It’s not as easy for me to keep up with everyone anymore sad I put the link to your story here to refresh others memories, as well, in case anyone else had forgotten.

    http://polygamy411.com/where-do-you-fit-in-polygamy/#comment-56294

    Do join in whenever you feel like it. We’re here for you happy

  • ana

    February 14, 2014

    @Mari2,

    It’s nice you got to get to Pakistan. I’d like to hear more about your trip, if and when you feel like speaking more about it.

    Allah swt mentions “foster mother’s” in the Quran. I, however, never focused much on the Ayat to be able to speak intelligently about them off the top of my head. I know it’s okay to give a child to another woman “foster mother” for breastfeeding and a man cannot marry a woman who breastfed him. There possibly are other Ayat as well.

    maryam,

    I learned that a woman’s psyche plays a huge part in what’s going on in her sexual life. At least you know it’s the “resentment” that you have that is causing the issue. As you already know, somehow you have to let go of the “resentment”. One way is to come to terms with the fact that Allah swt has decided everything and any “resentment” you have towards your husband, you are directing it at the wrong person (your husband). Allah swt will deal with your husband if your husband has done something not right. We must remember Allah is an Oft Forgiving and Merciful God, as well.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ina

    February 14, 2014

    Its a crazy, scary stormy night in London.

  • Ina

    February 14, 2014

    Waalaikumsalam Ms A,

    Does your family know that you are a muslim now? I am half chinese/vietnamese. My father told me that my mother actually cried when I told them I was going to marry a muslim man. At first they thought he was using me to get residency in uk and also I was doing ok financially (stable job and own flat) and he was an overseas student with no money/job.

    Now that they know him, they are ok with it. My mum buys halal meat or cooks lots of seafood dishes when we come round for dinner. My husband is always appreciative of her food and shows it by eating a lot…it makes her happy happy

    If your family does not know about your religion then may be you should tell them. They might be more understanding/accepting than you give them credit for. Teach them the religion, tell them why it makes sense to you.

    As for your relationship with a married man and thinking about becoming a 2nd wife, I think it will be hard for them to understand so I don’t know if you should tell them about that. I know I won’t be telling my parents when hubby marries another. That would upset them a lot and its not something they need know.

    I assume you still do not know what to do about your situation. Are you seeing him at the moment?

  • maryam

    February 14, 2014

    Nice to see you back too Mrs A and nice to have thumbs join! And anyone else.

  • maryam

    February 14, 2014

    Salam alaikum ladies,

    Nice to hear from you Ina.

    Its also good for all of us to remember to pray, when we start missing our lives do become worse, harder, i know at times when i got lazy with my praying i slowly had like a depression come over me.

    About sex, yes its true what Ummof4 said, all of it.

    Its just hard to feel in the mood when there is resentment lurking. With myself my body will literally freeze, it goes tight/tense and its very hard for me to overcome this. It really is a physical reaction. Its not a matter of sulking, my body just reacts. I know its because of the issues that still bother me, but in the meantime any advice would be appreciated!

    Ina, are you comfortable with how your husband is organising financial matters now? It is interesting that he sees some issues with no.2, maybe he thinks because she is far away it wont be a problem?

    Inshallah you are all well sisters

  • ana

    February 14, 2014

    @Ina,

    I’m sorry. I thought you may have meant the actual comment box that one writes in. I think it’s under copy protect, as well, though. Still, I’ll look into, Sis. Thanks again! happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 14, 2014

    Life is like a box of chocolates Chocolate box You never know what you’re going to get.

    The saying above is from the “Forrest Gump” movie.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ina

    February 14, 2014

    Ana, I understand why you need the copy protect off on comments that’s already been posted. I think it would be helpful to have the copy function on the comment box before comments are submitted. In the meantime I will try writing comments in word first as I did not realise you can paste into the comment box.

  • ana

    February 14, 2014

    @Ina,

    I’m glad you mentioned it is not easy to adopt an infant. I worked with two co-workers (a Korean girl and a white male), not connected to each other, who went to China to adopt children. They only were able to get girls. Jenny has spoken here, as well, about adoption. She said people can only adopt female babies from Pakistan. Apparently, many places hold onto the males.

    It’s interesting, as well, that you mentioned many of the older children up for adoption have had troubled childhoods. Mari2, as well, stated there were some problems initially with the children she knew of that were adopted. It’s nice to hear the problems straightened out.

    I too admire people who go out there on the limb and adopt. The same as you know adoption wouldn’t be for you, I know it wouldn’t be for me, based on the little I do know. As Aishah stated, children are all challenging whether adopted or biologically our own. We really don’t know what we’re going to get with them. Allah has already written who and what they will be. A parent can only do their best in trying to rear them correctly.

    Insha Allah, I’ll be back…

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 14, 2014

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Peace to All,

    Ina,

    I’m so sorry to hear you lost your post. It seems to be happening quite a bit here lately with some of us. I’ve lost some posts, but although it has happened a number of times to me, I’m still too lazy to go over and put it first in “Word”. laughing.

    Ina I don’t think I could take the copy protect off the comment section; it is really needed there. We were having a problem here in that another site was taking comments from our people here, and posting them on her site. Laila dealt with it and put a fight up with the other site manager. It was one of the reasons we put the copy protect on. It’s not a sure way to avoid people stealing our content, as the person could still type the material, but it’s at least more work for them, if they want to do it. I will, however, look it to it. I thank you very much for your suggestion. I want to do whatever I can to make things easier for everyone. It’s not always easy, but I will try. happy

    I suggest everyone, including lazy me, type the material in a “Word” document or “NotePad” or something else first, to avoid losing material. I know how frustrating and upsetting it can be to lose content. I’ve actually cried, literally cried real tears, after having lost my work. What made it easier is I remembered what I said, so it was easy to re-write.

    I really want to get back over here and talk with everyone. I’m trying to put together a new post right now. Insha Allah, I’ll get it done and maybe, Insha Allah, release it tomorrow.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ina

    February 14, 2014

    @Ummof4, my husband has been back for 2 weeks but we have not made love. Partly because I was still angry with him about not wanting to change the date of his honeymoon. The other reason is that after having a persistent cough for nearly 2 months, I gave in and started to take the antibiotics the doctors prescribed. I had taken 1 capsule when I realised the shell was made from gelatine so decided to not to take them anymore. 2 days later I started to get a rash on the back of my hands and I was itching everywhere. I made a joke that I was allergic to my husband since he came back on Sunday night and my allergic reaction started the next day. He did not find it funny. Nearly 2 weeks and I still get pins and needles feeling and itchiness so have not exactly been feeling the love.

    I agree that we should not use sex as a weapon but how do you feel in the mood but you are angry and upset at your husband? Since he started talking about polygamy 3 years ago and explained his reasons, I have been more giving on the sex. If I try to use sex as a weapon, it will backfire as he is more sure about polygamy.

    He admitted to me that his wife to be is not perfect and he has told her off for her behaviour on facebook. Other mutual friends can also see that her behaviour was not good. He posted a link about ways to avoid marrying the wrong person. 1st on the list was you not marry a potential meaning you should not marry someone hoping that they will change. 2nd on the list was choose some with good character (humility, kindness, responsibility and happiness). I think she failed on the 1st 2 points and he was trying to tell her that. Despite this, she carries on being her and he carries on and ignores the advice he’s posted.

  • Ina

    February 14, 2014

    Ana, I was wondering if it was possible to allow copy/paste on the comment box only. When I knew that I was going to lose my post (due to connection problems), I tried to copy it but was not able to.

  • Ina

    February 14, 2014

    Assalamualaikum,

    This is my 3rd attempt at posting after losing the other 2 posts so here we go again.

    @Laila, You desperately want child…hubby not so bothered after all he’s already got children. You mentioned you had several miscarriages so despite your husband’s low sperm count he is able to get you pregnant. So maybe that’s why he is not so keen on IVF. Are the doctors able to tell why this is?

    If the chances are slim for you to have a baby and your husband is not willing to adopt then this might be a breaking point for you. Its hard for couples to be together when they have differing priorities in this life. Love may not be enough in this case.

    A friend of mine looked into adoption since she is not able to have a baby of her own due endometriosis. She says its very difficult especially since the majority of children who need adopting are the older ones who often had troubled childhood. Everyone would like to adopt a baby but there are not many of these unless you go overseas. I don’t know if this is the same in Malaysia. I admire anyone who adopts and give the child the love and care they need. I, for one, know that I would not be able to take on such a responsibility (even if I do not have any children).

    Pray istikhara for guidance.

  • Mari2

    February 14, 2014

    Ana,
    I neither took offense even though my cousin and his wife adopted 2 children from an orphanage in China when they could not have children of their own due to health/cancer issues my cousin had when he was but 18. Both of their daughters are happy and productive teenagers now though their physical and cognitive abilities were hampered by 18 months each in an institutional setting. But MASALLAH with OT, PT, proper nutrition, proper medical care, etc. early on both girls thrived.

    That said, when I went to Pakistan and met with M’s family, a woman came to visit. M’s older sister introduced the woman as “my foster mother who raised me.” I have to admit I was a bit flummoxed because “foster mother” in the West means such a different thing. I asked M why his sister had a “foster mother” but was still with his mom now in adulthood. He just said that his mom married at 16, had 3 kids by 19 (he and his bro are 11 months apart)and by the time his sister was born his mom was so overwhelmed by children, that when a neighbor who for her 10 year marriage produced no children, offered to take her infant daughter and take on the expenses of raising her, M’s mom said “yes”. So, M’s sister was raised between 2 households. Foster mom did insist on a name change and got her way, but she fed, raised, and educated M’s sister. Foster mom contributed toward her wedding, and to this day they have a have a good relationship even though when foster mom finally gave birth to a son, she returned M’s sister to the family but still paid for her school fees. To me this is sooo weird, but I spoke to my sister who did Peace Corps work in Fiji and she said the same thing happens there too (though Christian). If one has many children, it is not unusual for another family member with few or no children to take on the costs of raising another family member’s child. And one of my husband’s friends in Pak cannot have kids so his brother gave him and his wife their fourth child (a daughter) to raise as their own.

  • Aishah 2014

    February 14, 2014

    Meaning I didn’t take offense..

  • Aishah 2014

    February 14, 2014

    Ana a persons biological kids can turn out to be just as um challenging as the adopted ones speaking from experience.kids in general can be one of Allah’s blessings and at same time one of life biggest challenges

  • ana

    February 14, 2014

    As Salaamu Alaikum and peace to all, happy

    I apologize for what I said about adoption. It was inappropriate. I’m sure, as ummof4 said, there are some very lovely, well adjusted people out there for adoption.

    This is an open house no need to knock just come on in.

  • ummof4

    February 14, 2014

    As-salaamu alaikum and hello to the ladies,

    Laila, it’s good to hear that you are doing the volunteer teaching. Contributing to society in a positive way and your exercise is guaranteed to lift your spirits. Many times just feeling that we are appreciated can do wonders for us; often those closest to us make us feel that we are not appreciated.

    Relax and make du’ah about getting pregnant. I believe you mentioned before that you have had one or more miscarriages. If so, that can take a toll on us, and make us not even want to try again. Don’t give up, Allah gives us what we need.

    If you don’t conceive, rearing another child can be beneficial. Allah tells us to be kind to the orphans, and taking an orphan into your home and rearing him/her to be a righteous Muslim is definitely being kind. Adoption can be rewarding for the child and parents. Several of my closest friends were adopted and turned out fine. My sister was unable to carry a child to term and her husband had low sperm count, so they adopted. Their daughter is now a lovely , well-adjusted young lady.

    On another note, ladies don’t try to use sex as a weapon by denying our husbands sex because we are upset. Sex in marriage is one of the most important aspects of the marriage. Both husband and wife are supposed to desire it and enjoy it. When sex is not good, it indicates other issues in the marriage, not just sex.

    May Allah bless us all with a rewarding Jum’uah.

  • ana

    February 14, 2014

    Laila, Happy Valentines to you too!

    It’s just another day to send love. I didn’t remember it was connected to a Saint named valentine until “Spirited” reminded me. I’m not trying to connect with any Saint. Allah swt knows all things and He knows my intention. He says he forgives the small sins other than the the most heinous ones. I’m just sending love your way….

    With Love

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Laila

    February 14, 2014

    Dear Aishah…. sometimes when I look at him I do wonder whether hes still having girlfriends outside. Whether hes still flirting. I dont mean to hurt him in regards to the other woman the last time. But my trust level to him is zero right now. Im out having dinner guys. Im typing frm my phone. Nevertheless tq so much for your responses and prayers and love. Ive got the volunteering teaching job. I hope to contribute to society and get my mind off all his stupidity and weaknesses. HAPPY VALENTINES LADIES! 💜💜💜 I know its very not Islamic. But I juz thought of wishing u guys anyway.

    Salam

  • Laila

    February 14, 2014

    Dear all…. wow! Tq for your prayers and thoughts. I can feel the positive vibes already ☺ Well yes hubbs has said in the past that hes eager in having kids with me. Hes even hinted many times about visiting the fertility clinic. Yes, hes a bit wounded in terms about adoption. I think its not going to do much for his ego. Hes open to adoption but after we have our own child first.

  • Aishah 2014

    February 13, 2014

    Laila did u mention your hub was kinda getting involved with a third woman before? and y ou told him OK but marry her? maybe a part of u wan ts to hurt him for that I might!

  • Aishah 2014

    February 13, 2014

    And not speaking out of nowhere as currently home with kids trudging thru tons of homework( theirs mine) and one kid now sick.always assessing. level of seriousness of it.if there were an emergency most likely I would handle it.have to.I would not wait on an emergency say if my hub not here and his phone on vibrate if he is with Co.its on me.

  • ana

    February 13, 2014

    Laila,

    Furthermore, don’t think your relationship with your husband won’t change once you have a baby. It will change and will never be the same again. Everything changes when variables change. Nothing stays the same.

    Most likely you’ll give the baby a lot of time and attention. It’s inevitable and what a mother should do. Remember, your husband has been used to not sharing you with anyone for the last 13 years. There will be some jealousy on his part once your focus is no longer entirely on him, but is on the baby, as well.

    Where it was once that he came to you for peace, quiet and relaxation, he may have to seek all of it else where once a baby arrives. You need to know that things will be difference when it is no longer just you and your husband.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 13, 2014

    @Aishah,

    I hear you!

    @Laila,

    As Aishah stated, your husband probably weighed the pros and cons of having a child with you. He sounds to be a sensible man. My husband let me know straight up he wouldn’t trust me alone with a child. He said he would have to take it to work with him to assure the child’s safety. I take no offense to what he says. I know I’m not cut out for motherhood.

    You, on the other hand, may make a very good mother, but you haven’t shown him that you are capable of handling things yourself with little help. Based on what you have said to us here on the blog, it sounds to me that you don’t handle being without your husband very well. You had a difficult time with your pinky injury, and was upset that your husband,your mum and family were not there for you.

    A baby is a lot of work and responsibility, as Aishah stated. Polygamy requires that women are able to cope when our husbands are not with us. We have to be able to take the bull by the horn and run with it. We have to make decisions and take action.

    Laila, you already say your husband and your family are not there for you. What happens should you have a baby? Your husband and his other family shouldn’t be constantly inconvenience by your neediness of him 24/7 because you have a new baby,and are inexperienced. You can’t take claim of your husband and need him 100% when you are not his only family. You know what you’re in for before you have a child. You will raised the child half the time alone, most likely. Allah knows best!

    Your husband’s mother raised no fool. Your husband knows full well what’s in store for him and his other family, if you were to have a child. I know it sounds way harsh. I just want to speak what my thoughts about it are.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Aishah 2014

    February 13, 2014

    Salaams.hmm it is possible Laila husband maybe not be feeling the kid thing at an older age.he has son in college and teenage daughter right? part of him may feel he doesn’t really have time to do the baby thing ( I.e. up all night with a fussy baby, Dr visits,ear aches,emergencies etc(
    ) he may not fear whether he can be there enough to help you ( say if its not your night but your baby is sick can you handle it alone,would you be able to figure out a routine sickness vs an emergency,etc..and I’m going to out this out there honestly.he may fear that 1 St wife will give him heck when u call at all times about a baby question, and call it manipulation to get his time…I asked my hub if he planned to have more kids.she is close to 30 years younger.he said ” no I am not trying to have anymore kids.” what the heck! guess just enjoying the practice.anyway my Co is quite dependent so I can see how a baby would go

  • Ms A

    February 13, 2014

    As Salaamu Alaikum Everyone…

    After few weeks I come back to read all comments here. I’m not sure if you all remember me haha… Theses days I pray and make dua, and I really want to get an answer from Allah…

    Reading all stories here, I do feel Polygamy is very hard to work out. I’m so happy for you all are so patient and kind.

    As Laila said, total mess in her life and she couldn’t tell her families. I do fear one day it will be my situation. Because sometimes I also feel very lonely as a reverted muslim, families can’t share my problems. As an only child in my family, I don’t want my parents to be disappointed or unhappy about me. Whatever makes them sad, I don’t want to do. Laila, I will make dua for you, I wish Allah makes your life easier. Btw, English also is my second language, but your English is better than mine. I’m still working on it.

    @Ana, it’s interesting you exercise Tai Chi. I think it’s from China. Btw, I’m a Chinese lady. Tai Chi does really need patience, and I think it can help us to be patient as well. I’m really thankful Ana you make this blog. I feel so good to know you all here, and I feel good to read experience from you all.

    I’m feeling tired to think about this issue sometimes, just want to leave and go back to my family, and live easily, without thinking about him, his wife and his kid.

    Anyway, I dua for you all…^^

  • ana

    February 13, 2014

    Laila,

    You have to let your husband know what you like and what pleases you in the bedroom department. Our husbands aren’t mind readers. If we don’t let them know, they won’t know for certain. Everyone is not the same. We women like different things. Deliverance is important. You don’t want to make him feel he’s doing something wrong. I’m no sex expert, so I can’t tell you the best way to let him know other than to say you must be subtle and tactful. I think you know how to do it.

    It could be problematic though. He may go home and try the new technique out on his wife. Consequently, she may become suspicious and question him about the changes. Allah knows best.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 13, 2014

    @Thumbs,

    Alhumdulliah, you’ve found us. Insha Allah, we’ll be here for you whenever you feel a need or simply want to talk.

    About experiencing behavior out of character, I’ve been there and done that. Being confronted with polygyny has a way of bringing out the worse in some of us. Feelings that were dormant in us seem to surface. The “crazy” in us can make itself known. I think it’s good for the ugly in us to rear it’s head and make an appearance, so we know it exists and we can address it. I believe it amounts to the purification of the soul.

    Good to have you here with us. Relax and make yourself at home. Mi casa es su casa (my house, is your house) happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 13, 2014

    Not for nothing, but everyone I’ve known or heard of who adopted got some messed up in the head kids or kids with issues. I’m just saying…

    Alex’s mom was a one of those people who adopted and later became pregnant. A decade or so after she adopted a child, during her change of life, she got pregnant with Alex happy His older sister has since passed away. So it just leaves my pumpkin head (Alex) happy

    Laila,

    In Deep Thought

    At 50 or 51 years old, your husband may not be feeling the kid thing at this stage of his life. I can’t remember how many he has other than the one teenage daughter. Some men reach an age where they don’t want to start over again raising children. They’re at the age they just want to chill, relax and enjoy the rest of their lives. Then there are other men of the same age who begin new families, and do well with them. If your hubs isn’t all gun ho about having any more of his own, I could see how he wouldn’t be head over heals, jumping for joy to get an unknown person’s kid.

    Laila,

    You said English is your second language? surprise I would never have known it. You’re amazing. You do reeeallll good! You’ve got it going on, girl. Alhumdulliah.

    Yes, Laila, If you’ve got a DVD player, check out some videos of workouts that you may like or better yet, go to a pilate or yoga class, if there are any near your home. Maybe even do Tai Chi lessons. I used to take Tai Chi lessons, but my instructor died. Exercise works wonders in uplifting the spirit and helping us to feel way better about ourselves. Exercise is undeniably therapeutic and good for the body, mind and spirit.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Thumbs

    February 13, 2014

    Recently started reading the blog. Interesting! I am trying to grow.
    My spouse recently (few months ago) brought up polygyny to me. We were together before revrting. I am not in the position, currently to give many details but i’ve experienced firsthand the lack of communication. After a dialog has started with another outside of a husbands marriage unbeknownst to the first wife, a real roller coaster can begin. I had no person close to me to talk with and within the Muslim community it’s not something really discussed. I began seeing myself as this person I had never thought I’d become, doing things out of my character. Posts here have really helped my growth process. Glad to see someone discussing something others avoid.

  • maryam

    February 13, 2014

    Laila,

    Could your husband be against adoption because then people may find out he had trouble fathering children?

    Maybe he is worried he will face shame that he has this lovely young wife that he cant give children to?

    If ivf works then no-one would know about his fertility problem, of you adopt they may gossip.

    Im not justifying it just wondering if its just plain male pride getting in the way?

  • ummof4

    February 13, 2014

    As-
    salaamu Alaikum and hello to everyone,

    Lynete, I forgot to tell you that I’m glad you’re feeling better, Alhamdulillah.

    Laila, I believe you said you are on your menses the past few days. Sometimes that can be brutal on our hormones and emotions. That’s why I suggested that you write to your husband and talk to him when you are not on your menses.

    It sounds as if you have already made two decisions. Number one is that you will begin a physical activity that is just for you. I try to stay in good shape and exercise regularly; it really works to build up our sense of well-being. Number two is you are going forward with trying to have a child. May Allah allow you to be successful. If not, don’t feel like a failure, since everything is in the control of Allah, not us.

    Only you can decide if you want to stay married or not. Work on yourself first, then try to talk to your husband in a calm manner, then make du’ah, then make your decisions.

    May Allah purify all of our intentions so that all that we say and do is in His cause, not for our own desires.

  • maryam

    February 13, 2014

    Laila,

    Children is a very good point. I do pray you get them.

    Do you feel that your husband is leas interested in having children than you? Iv wondered if he is feeling “old” now compared to his age when he first became a father

    Is he totally against adoption or will he go down that path after X attempts at fertility treatment?

    Its also crossed my mind that he knows wife no1 will be very rattled if you have children, i remember she has insulted you in tge past about this. Maybe he thinks his life will get harder and more stressful and thats why hes not rushing as much for children as you?

    Can you reach some agreement as to when he will adopt? I know 2 families who adopted after fertility issues and then got pregnant after adoption! Def get 2nd opinion as others suggested.

  • Laila

    February 13, 2014

    Ana n Lynette…. typing frm my phone as I am in bed. In some ways I also believe that I should work on my SELF. I think in some ways I could have been a bit selfish. I mean, I never did put in a muscle into my deen. When u and Ana n even Ummof4 type out ur responses I get a feeling that all u ladies are so calm n in peace. Maybe I too need yo learn to be patient and calm. Maybe then I wont be so short tempered. Ive not worked on the inside’s of my soul. Only my physical. Hope I make sense. 😊

  • Laila

    February 13, 2014

    I think in so many ways, when a wife snoops around and later tells the other, it’s a show of power struggle. The new one can either take the crap or just fight back. Ive taken her crap for years. Now I am in no mood to compromise for juvenile behaviour. I leave everything to time. I guess I am growing into a different person and Ive realized that there are some things that I will tolerate and some…. I wont. Ive also always viewed hubbs as spineless when it comes to her. He an be so firm and full of his talk. But when push comes to shove, he can’t handle the lunatic.

    That’s why now, I just won’t tolerate his s*** talk. Should I walk? Should I stay? Ive no clue. Is love really enough at the end of the day? one thing is for sure. If I plan to stick around, I am getting my a** to the fertility clinic and I will go for all the treatments [ thanx to hubbs low sperm count issue ].

    Well Ive just checked out a volunteer teaching programme and I hope to join it soon. Maybe being with kids will make me feel happier in life. Teaching and being with kids and teenagers somehow gives me some sort of happiness. I asked Gow for my calling on the way to work as I was driving, and Ive got my answer. happy

    Ive got so many plans for my centre this year. Plan to buy chocolates for my little monkeys tomorrow. It’s Valentines and yes as much as I don’t condone it, but a bit of chocolate to spoil my sweet monkeys won’t hurt happy I know they will appreciate the extra sugary treat. Teaching and being with kids / teenagers makes my life so much more meaningful.

    In terms of my idiotic hubbs, I leave it to God happy I know, for some my statement sounds so lousy. But at this part of my life, I am adamant to have a child. My co and him can be in blissful heaven for all I care. I am tired of him looking into my needs or the apt word would be, ‘sensitive’. Guess cave man here is still a cave man.

    Salam ladies.

  • Laila

    February 13, 2014

    Dear Ana and Lynette, okay here goes. I resent him for ALWAYS putting her and the kids before me. It didn’t bother me so much but just of recent when she found out about my personal purchases, and she told me about it, that’s when I just went crazy!

    He’s not home tonight. That’s how it is, his family always before me. Yes Lynette, I am some crossroads I guess. Should I leave or not? Should I break up this marriage or just live with it? I just have no clue. We have been arguing so much just lately that I really feel that at some point marrying him was a huge mistake made on my part. Lynette, you’re spot on. I am very lonely. I do not have a support system at all…. I can’t be telling my mum of all this mess I am in. She will only rub salt into my wound.

    Yes Ana, on the overall you’re also right. He’s been taking time to be with me. Yes, Ive refereed to him being old because he can be so cynical and insensitive at times. He’s a good man in the sense he provides and does his best for me. If I tell him I need somethings sone around the house, he will get it done. I know I sound childish. But I also want to look at his bright side.

    Here’s the truth. I am very very frustrated that he doesn’t see the urgency of me wanting a child. I would love to adopt, but he’s adamant that we try for our own. Yes, I call him old because he’s not so great in b**. I am at times feel that he doesn’t give me what I need [ get my drift? ]….

    Ive been thinking so much today. I sometimes worry about my future. Will I be all alone when I grow old. Will he be there for me if another accident takes place? It does cross my mind.

    Sometimes I feel that I should just do workouts. My friends have said that doing some form or physical activity does make us feel better about ourselves. Im not worried that once I leave him nobody will want to get into a relationship with me. Im the type that has no problems getting into a relationship.

    I just wont take her crap anymore. She HAS GOT to learn to piss off and not snoop. I am well aware that as a husband, he’s not able to control her or in the sense manage her crazy behaviour. So, I am hoping for the best.

    Dear Aishah, yes, I will never give up on Him. I was just a bit upset inititally. Ive no clue why I get so upset easily and I don’t forgive easily as well.

    My life is in a mess on a personal level. I wish in so many ways I wasn’t so messed up. Sometimes I feel so shy telling you ladies what goes on in my life. It’s as though the s*** doesnt stop.

    Dear Lynette, English is my second language happy But I think I write well because I love reading English novels. I have a small room where it’s been converted into a library. When hubbs is being his idiot self, I run to my books.

  • ana

    February 13, 2014

    Dear Laila,

    The same as Lynnette, she said you didn’t offend her, you didn’t offend me in anyway either. You were only being you and simply expressing yourself. All is good. happy No need to apologize for anything.

    I find we have to be sure we’re always being honest with ourselves (SELF) about things.

    What is annoying you or upsetting you so much now after 13 years of marriage that didn’t bother you before? I know you said you didn’t get the nights and time with him in the past that she got. If I’m not mistaken, your husband has stepped up his game, and has been spending way more time with you.

    Is it that you resent the time you missed with him in years gone by?

    Do you feel you have out grown him and you want to move on?

    You referred to him as “old”. Are you sure you still love him and want to remain married to him?

    Sounds to me that you need to do a lot of soul searching. Ask yourself questions and answer them honestly.

    You need to get to the bottom of what is really eating at you.

    Turn to Allah swt in prayer and ask him to make things clear to you. Allah swt answers prayers. You need to be open and receptive to the answers.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Lynnette

    February 13, 2014

    @ Sister Laila,

    I am not offended, Dear. I wasn’t ever offended in any point in this conversation.

    I aim for straight speech at all times — polite speech, but straight.

    English is my first language; I believe it to be at least a second (or more) language for you. (Though you write it beautifully , Mashallah.). Unless you know someone in person, you don’t really know what they sound like happy. Add to that “writing on the fly” — such as while waiting for a someone — and we have the makings of a problem.

    You, Sister, appear to be at a crossroads in your life. The decisions you make now will be of lasting effect. I want to make sure that since I’ve opened my mouth — and spoken to you directly about your circumstances — that I am giving good, clear, and most important, proper and sound Islamic advice.

    No one human has all the answers. If one human did, that one human is not me.

    But I can’t help but notice that I recognize some things about the road you’re traveling. You are traveling it in Malaysia — or thereabouts — and I am traveling (and did travel) it in the United States. Nevertheless, the road looks familiar.

    I urge you to search your soul, pray, and then identify your “deal makers” — the things you must have in marriage to be happy and content, as well as your “deal breakers,” -a short list of the things you positively cannot abide. Being that you are 13 years married now, both lists should actually be short. (By thirteen years, I had tolerated all kinds of stuff!!). Some things are irritating, others frustrating, and then there are deal breakers.

    Let that list — your prayed-over, carefully considered list — help to guide you in your relationship with your husband.

    And as Ummof4 wrote, I, too, pray and hope that Allah (swt) hears your du’ah for a baby; I know that causes you a lot of angst. Is your doctor providing you the best in fertility treatment? Wherever Sister Jenny goes, that place obviously works! Since your husband wants to try again, could a trip to Europe be a good vacation for you? I heard you when you said that the process is stressful for you, and I note that it has not yet been successful. Is it time for a second opinion?

    How could I be offended by you? You are positively sweet, and in many ways, a lot like me — at least 10 years ago. I was not Muslim for most of my marriage; when I was married, my husband was my lord for many years. When I got angry, I lashed out sometimes. I said things I should never have said. I felt powerless in that marriage for many years, and desperate to avoid losing the only real family I ever had — my own.

    When I refreshed myself on my previous learnings of Islam –I saw a whole system of life, and I saw that the system I was working with did not work at all. That was THE source of cognitive dissonance for me at that point.

    My first contact with Islam was as a child in High School. (I think you call that Secondary School?). My World Cultures teacher gave me a Qur’an to use, and ultimately allowed me to keep it. At University, Islam was everywhere. I studied it again before needing to change Universities to attend a Catholic University. The scholarship money I was promised was very important to me at that time. I was a poor girl paying my own way. Ask me about that another day.

    Because I was unclear in my post, I fear I may have set this whole thing on the wrong path. I do hope that all of this conversation has shown us all the importance of intentional speech. May Allah (swt) continue to guide us all.

  • Aishah 2014

    February 13, 2014

    Laila don’t stop praying!! get up at night and offer more prayers.Allah hears our prayers.make your list of things ( classes, dance,etc) and get started.reminder to myself too

  • Lynnette

    February 12, 2014

    As Salaamu Alaikum, and peace it all,

    Sister Laila,

    I think what I am telling you (while trying to hold on to a teensy-tiny bit of my anonymity) is that I grew up as a child with constant threats, and I carried my insecurities into my marriage…and I watched all of my own fears manifest into real life. I know exactly how threats play out, what they do to the psyche of both the maker and the hearer, and now, I don’t make them.

    I learned this the hard way, Sister Laila.

    Because of my upbringing, I had no family support. I spent my childhood being reminded that my presence was “permissive.” I could always be sent away if I caused displeasure. So I did not feel at home and at peace during those formative years.

    Threats — as a way of controlling behavior– do work up to a point. I was on the receiving end of them for many years; I can bear witness.

    But I felt so insecure; I was so uncertain of what was ahead. By age 16, I can truly say I developed a fearless exterior, because all the threats prepared me for the (eventuality) of abandonment. The threats stopped working; I decided that being on my own in the world was safer than being unsafe in my so-called home environment).

    Here’s where it gets tricky —

    I walked into the situation that lead to my marriage to an older man (at age 22) because I was desperate for family. I had none.

    As YOUR reversion to Islam has effectively changed some of your family ties…I am sure that there are times you feel alone and vulnerable.

    I suppose there have to be times when you feel almost “abandoned,” and alone. sometimes, our nafs cause us to feel the need to share these feelings of fear, or neglect, or abandonment — to “let them feel it the way we feel it.” And then, some reckless behavior occurs.

    Threats are “reckless speech.” Our intention is not in the words we spoke — it is in causing the feeling of unease, and in trying to exercise control over our environment and over another person. But the hearer hears the words, Sister. And it provokes a thought process that may never have occurred had we not spoken it into existence.

    (This is a very weak point for me. Shaytan has exposed it and exploited it successfully and more often than I care to admit. I seek refuge with Allah from the accursed Shaytan. Allahu Akbar)

    Sister, I sincerely desire your happiness and your success and that is why I am bearing some of this. In Shaa Allah, we will all be guided to the straight path.

  • Laila

    February 12, 2014

    Dear Lynette, my statement wasn’t meant to you or any sister here. If I’ve offended you, I am extremely sorry.

    Dear Ana and Ummof4,Ive been a bit down. My emotions are all over the place. I feel very sad and sort of in my own blues. Ive stopped praying, and just last night he played some verses using the Ipad before we hit the bed. He knew I wasn’t well and so thought playing some verses while sleeping would soothe me. But I yet again snapped and told him that I am feeling irritated hearing those verses.

    Today before he left, we argued again. I blew my top when he said he’s coming only on Sarurday. I exploded and big time. I told him that he can come in next week. I even said that my co once said that it’s good to not be so petty and calculative in regards about our schedule. So, I said, why must you relpace an extra day? How about the whole week you took to go off to Korea in the past ha? I just texted him to not be around tonight. I am not well and don’t need to see his idiotic face.

    My menses are giving me hell this time and I am down with a fever. Yes, I am frustrated that this old bat can’t provide children and yet won’t allow me to adopt. What a slime ball.
    I am very very frustrated right now. My heart is just not in the right place. Ummof4, you’re right. I need to place my energy elsewhere. Maybe religious classes or something. Ive always loved to dance. I might consider taking up dance classes.

    As of now, no I am not allowing him to even touch me. [ no sex ] When he’s in the tv room I am in the bedroom. I am avoiding him at all costs. I don’t want to blow up again but I guess this morning was just not one of my good days.

    Dear ladies, please forgive me for being mean spirited. Just hate the sight of him right now. Wonder why I married him in the first place. May I find peace and burn out the anger and fire that’s in my heart. I literally can feel my heart being so painful.

    Salam.

  • ana

    February 12, 2014

    @Laila,

    You could make a very nice life with your husband, if you could stop focusing so much on what he does with or for his other. I know it’s easier said than done and it takes time. I really understand first hand.

    Your husband wants to come home and spend time with you for some peace, quiet and relation; I mean relaxation. He’s not going to look forward to time with you, if you’re going to be a nag hag Swearing smiley face. You’ve got to pull yourself together. Insha Allah, you still offer your five daily salats and implore Allah swt for His help.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 12, 2014

    @Ummof4, Wa Alaikum As Salaam!

    You said a mouth full when you stated, “our test is to learn to control our emotions and not let them control us.” thumbs up

    @Mari2,

    It’s good to hear from you. It’s been a while. I don’t blame you for not listening anymore to him talk about his first. Let him know you have feelings too and you’re not just a friend who want t hear him bellyache about his other. You have a relationship with him that is not about her. It may take him a while to get used to not speaking of her. Insha Allah, it will stop.

    @Laila,

    I find we have different experiences with our husbands depending on which order he married us in. I really think that many times the husbands give first wives leeway, as the husbands know the first wives gave up a LOT and made many a sacrifice for him to have another life with another wife. First wives may not accept it wholeheartedly, not that she can’t. It simply takes time. It says much about a wife who does not leave her husband, stands by him, and does not give him a super hard time when he becomes polygamous. It alone bonds a husband to the first wife, if he truly loves her. I truly believe it. It could be why you feel and think your husband is more lenient on his first. “C” has said to Alex, “You (Alex) is harder on me than you are on her.”

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 12, 2014

    Oh my goodness, I just thought about what I said. If I was a child when Shirley Temple was a child, I’d have to be about 85 years old now. ROFL I guess when I was watching it on TV, I felt like it was real life and Shirley Temple and I were the same age LOL

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Aishah 2014

    February 12, 2014

    Salaams Laila I agree w Ummoh4 an email or written letter is good idea.I do that sometimes..has a better chance of. being heard. when talking face to face a man may shut down an emotional woman and stop listening.Ummoh4 I am glad u can communicate w your Co that way.I cannot.I tried but then it was always her running to hub with hurt feeling and then yes he was in middle and sticking up for her I guess cause so much younger but I say if old enough to be with him old enough to deal with what comes up..

  • ana

    February 12, 2014

    day dreaming

    Shirley Temple passed away Monday, 2/10/14 at the age of 85. She was such a talented child actress. I was just a child. Life was so much easier then…

    polygamy 411

    @Ummof4,

    Alex and I are gearing up for the big snow storm here. It’s forecast we’ll get between 8 and 12 inches of snow with blizzard condition. It sounds cooooold

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ummof4

    February 12, 2014

    As-salaamu Alaikum and hello to all.

    I pray that everyone is doing well. Some of us in the U.S. are experiencing a real winter this year.
    Laila, I understand your frustration and I think you are entitled to feel frustrated. We are fortunate to have this blog to vent. It keeps us from exploding all over our husbands.

    Laila, you gave up so many of your rights for so many years that I can understand why your husband does not understand that you want and need the relationship to change. A few months ago you put your foot down about a few things and you reported that your husband changed, Alhamdulillah. You may have to put your foot down once every few months until he understands that he is not married to a naive 19 year old any more, but to a mature woman in her thirties who has awakened and can smell the coffee.

    You have been married to your husband for 20 years and it sounds like you two love each other. Keep insisting that everyone follows the rules in your marriage – you, your co-wife, and your husband. If your frustration persists, remember that with every difficulty there is relief. Make du’ah to Allah that your situation improves.

    Aside from work, do you have any outside interests? Are there classes about Islam that you can attend? Is there a Muslim women’s group that does charitable work that you could join? It sounds like you need an activity that can keep your mind and body busy and can also benefit your growth in Islam. I have witnessed your growth in the few months that I have been on this blog.

    As far as your co-wife knowing what you get, I understand that too. I don’t know how long your husband was married to his first wife before he married you, but I’m guessing more than 10 years. During that time they may have developed a relationship that involved her knowing almost every penny he spent. It may be a habit that is difficult for them to break, especially since you did not ask for much in the first years of your marriage. My husband’s finances are an open book to me. I know what my co-wife receives and what I receive; I don’t believe she knows what I receive, but I don’t think she ever asked since my husband is giving her exactly what he said he would when they married. However, I never mention it to her, but my husband has always sought my advice on financial matters.

    You are also frustrated over the fact that you two have no children together. May Allah grant your du’ah and bless you two with a child. And may that child be a righteous Muslim and a benefit to the Ummah.

    Believe me, I am not making excuses for any incorrect behavior on the part of your husband or your co-wife, but for some people who were married for a long time before the husband married a second wife, their mindset is stuck in the past, at the beginning of the second marriage. You have been married to your husband long enough to have earned the same respect that he gives his other wife. Keep insisting on that, but don’t constantly nag.

    A suggestion for you. If you and your husband can communicate by email, maybe you can compose a letter to him. Go over it several times and make sure that it sounds calm and logical, not very emotional (please don’t write it when you are on your menses, lol). He can read it and think about it; then you can plan an appointment to discuss the letter at a time and place that will not evoke strong emotions (don’t discuss in the bedroom or right after having sex). Try to make the discussion about you and him, and speak as little as possible about his other wife.

    Speaking of rules, one of our family rules for polygyny is not to put our husband in the middle. Anything that my co-wife and I want to say to each other or know about each other, we say or ask directly. We had the same rule with my husband’s previous marriage to a second wife. It works for us, but the husband has to be discreet in what he reveals to each of his wives about the other.

    To everyone, I agree with Ana. Do not snoop into the business of your husband and his other wife. I snooped once many years ago and brought pain to myself. I brought pain to myself, no one tried to hurt me! Since then, I swore never to snoop again and I have managed to remain virtually pain-free with virtually no jealousy by focusing on my own marriage and leaving theirs alone.

    Islam is a way of life that recognizes that we are emotional creatures, our test is to learn to control our emotions and not let them control us.

  • Mari2

    February 12, 2014

    Ana,
    I agree about the rules. There certainly needs to be some in a polygamous relationship. M is having a really difficult time with #1 and he asks my advice on the situation. I give him advice (when he asks) but he disregards it and lately all of my time with him has been spent dealing with his issues with her crazy. The other night he called me and didn’t even ask about my day but launched into blah blah about her latest crazy episode. I told him “Enough. No more talk of her. She is your problem so you solve it. Stop spending my time stressing me out with the issues you are having with her.” So I made a rule: My time with him is to be with him only and he is not to discuss her with me unless her crazy impacts me (which it doesn’t directly). But it does impact my quality of time with him. When he tells me about her BS, I end up being angry at her, and then subsequently at him for not having the balls to deal with her. Then I’m just mad and want him to go away because his whining has ruined my day. And yes I did “threaten” him in a way…I told him he wasn’t really doing justice to me in the time department if ALL of the time he’s with me he’s complaining about her. So I told him NOT to bother coming to see me on my days unless he could do so WITHOUT dragging his issues with her to my doorstep. B***chy yes, but I’m done with listening to it. A whole year of complaining, asking my advice and doing nothing. I was getting to the point that I was dreading my days with him. But MASHALLAH he listened for once and stopped discussing her with me.

  • ana

    February 12, 2014

    maryam, Wa Alaikum,

    Excellent point! I totally agree with you. One reason I love Islam so much is because it is a way of life and everything is spelled out clearly for us for those who have eyes that see.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • maryam

    February 12, 2014

    Wa alaikum salam Ana and all,

    Putting polygamy aside for a second, Islam itself has lots of rules. Like Laila, i like structure, order, guess you could say i like rules.

    Makes me wonder if that’s partly why some people are drawn to islam (at least initially) and others disinclined towards it.

  • ana

    February 12, 2014

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Peace to All, happy

    I need to run out, so I’m writing quickly.

    @Laila,

    I don’t think Lynnette said she has never threatened her husband. I think she was simply saying it’s a bad way to go. There is probably not a single woman in a polygamous marriage who has not threatened her husband. I’ve threatened to divorce my husband numerous times to the point I was getting tired of making the threats. I began to become very fearful that one day my husband would take me up on divorce and do it. My wali/bestess has advised me a number of times to stop telling Alex that I want a divorce unless I absolutely really mean it. He said one day it will assuredly happen if I don’t stop. I knew he was totally correct.

    The last time I threatened divorce was during this past Christmas season (2013) when Alex came bothering me again with “C” usual nonsense about wanting my days. I told him flat that if he even consider it any further it was over between him and I. I let him know that I was sick and tired of her and her crazy demands.

    The only time Alex and I argue is when he comes to me with her craziness. I wrote it all out for him. I listed each and every time he and I had major arguments that disrupted our marriage. He saw that each time she had tried to take from me. She put the icing on the cake when she sent me the pic of his private part. He had enough. He took her days. She’s playing with fire. If she keeps messing around and being crazy, I have no doubt he would divorce her. He is fed up with her.

    Back to what I was saying, I would advise wives in polygamous marriages to take it easy with the threats. I know it is very difficult not to make those threats when we feel we’ve had just about all we can take.

    Laila, I understand how you feel about the rules. I get tired, as well about living marriage on a schedule. There are business affairs of his and things that Alex and I must attend. Do you think I do not get aggravated with having to pull out a calendar to see what days we are together, whether we have to meet each other at these places or he has to pick me up and drop me off afterwards? Yes, I get frustrated at times. I then pull myself together in that I remember Allah and that He decides all things.

    There are far worse things in life to contend with. I’m in a good position. I have a good husband. I have a good life and I need to show by gratitude to Allah swt for it all. Yes, Laila, I agree with you, who in their right minds wouldn’t get upset with rules. If the rules are reasonable, we have to learn to go with them.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Laila

    February 12, 2014

    Jenny this is how I feel….. nothing. No anger, frustration, sadness….. just done.

  • Laila

    February 12, 2014

    Im the type that loves rules as it provides stability. It sets some sort of boundaries. Yes my threat was that it would be good if all three of us sit together and talk. Sorry but my husband always creates excuses for my co. Hes home right now. Im not well. I plan to go home late. I want to avoid talking to him. Im tired of trying to talk and reason out with a m****.

    Dear Jenny, looks like the rule only is applicable to ME. from not staying with me at night for a long time to her always finding out stuff. I am the after thought.

  • Laila

    February 12, 2014

    Dear all, tq for the updates and responses. Ive got to say this though, who and which woman at some point doesn’t snap? Some of us here said they they’ve never given threats etc. Are u sure? …. so are you telling me that throughout your marriages you’ve been the good wife?

    Lynette…. my answer to you is this. Ive been in this nonsence for 13 years. Who in their right minds wouldnt get upset? Rules… ive always abided by them. From day one. Has she?

  • ana

    February 12, 2014

    @Sameer, As Salaamu Alaikum,

    If you are still reading, the answer to your question is in the following comment:

    http://polygamy411.com/what-we-need-to-know-for-a-peaceful-and-tranquil-polygamous-life/#comment-55573

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 12, 2014

    @Laila,

    I think your husband is correct in setting a rule that you and his other wife not know what each other receives. For the two of you to know each other business, it only opens the door for envy and jealousy to enter. Things then usually get ugly.

    I like the saying, “what you don’t know can’t hurt you.” I rather not know. There has been times when Allah swt wanted me to know something and I found it out. There have been times that I snooped and spied on my husband and, guess what; it hurt me.

    Only a believer would handle knowing what the other wife receives and not let Satan enter with his whispers. Even if Satan were to enter, the believing wife knows that everything comes from Allah. Allah determines what each of us receives. Our husbands are only the vehicle to deliver it.

    For many, many years now, I haven’t asked Alex anything about “C”. I don’t ask what they do or what she does or where they go or what she has. I don’t care. Her name only comes up about the scheduled when she schedules her vacation or I schedule mine. He only brings her to my attention when he gets so tired of arguing with her for days about she wanting to take my days and he comes to me with it. It’s the only time she is discussed with me. The only time I discuss her with him is when she text me nasty, hateful messages or a porn pic.

    There isn’t very much for me to know about her, anyhow. She is a very “simple” person in more than one way. She knows much about me, as she has read this blog, and probably still reads it. It’s info. to agonize her. If she reads it, it’s what she gets. Maybe it will bring her the “breakdown” that she wished on me.

    Those are my thoughts on the matter of rules. It’s impossible to live without them.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 12, 2014

    Just about with everything there are rules, regulations and laws. In polygamous marriages the husbands need to lay down some rules whether spoken or unspoken. They need to set them. The husband should be the head of the family. Ummof4 spoke of this already. In order for a polygamous marriage to be successful, the husbands have to step up and take charge.

    In Islam we know the wife is to obey the believing husband. If the wife is a believer she will obey the believing husband. We know Allah swt tells us not to hearken to those who neglect the remembrance of Him, those who don’t worship and serve Him. A believing wife knows what her husband is. Allah swt tells us throughout the Quran what a believer is. He tells us so we can make judgement calls in our lives – who to hearken to and who not to listen to; who to associate with and who not to associate with; who to let into our intimacy and who not to; who to marry and who not to marry (a believer for a believer etc).

    A believing woman will obey her believing husband as she knows that Allah swt has given men more than women. It does not necessarily mean materially or monetarily. We know there are many women who have much more than men monetarily and materially. There is more to it than it – spiritually? strength? mental stability? We know men can offer salat, fast, and read the Quran when women can’t. We know women are more emotional than men. Allah swt in the Quran speaks of women who play with trinkets. He says they cannot give an accurate account in a dispute. I pray Allah swt forgives me for not wording it verbatim from the Quran.

    Nonetheless, we know in order not to have chaos and to have some order in a polygamous marriage someone needs to be in charge and control of the situation and it best be the husband for it to work.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 11, 2014

    @Jenny,

    What’s happening in your boat? Boating

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Jenny

    February 11, 2014

    @ Laila,

    I was shocked when you said your husband has rules for his wives??? surprise I’m really scratching my head here! No wonder you feel suffocated. If my husband told me he had rules for me he would be flying out of the bedroom by the seat of his pants and in need for an ice pack!

    Totally understand how you feel about being the lab rat. I’m in the same boat now!

  • marie

    February 11, 2014

    Asalaamu alaykum all,

    Well it did go very quiet for a while, I missed you all sad

    I keep meaning to mention to ummof4 that I love the little ‘one liners’ you put at the end of your posts, they are such nice reminders, I even told my husband about them.
    When I was reading a few days ago a sister (I think lynnett) was advising mohammed on something you said something about if a wife does not have any hobbies then she may rely on you for fun,comfort etc it just clicked, I thought yes, that’s it, my husband is my only friend, if he married again I would have no one to talk to, now iv established one of my insecurities I can try to fix it, jazakallah kahir, sister, @ Ana, I don’t get bored of hearing your “same ole) you may get bored of writing it tho lol, you said something in a previous post about the only absolute is Allah, so true, I think I wrote we should have absolute obedience, I should have used a different word. jazakallah kahir for the reminder.

    Everything going well over in my neck of the woods, the baby still has some breathing difficulties, we don’t sleep much nowadays, just watching over him,

    Yes I agree with lynnette, I don’t think it brings any good to make threats to our husbands or anyone else, they will do whatever Allah allows them to. I learnt to accept my hubz just the way he is. For example my husband is no the romantic type, I like romance here an there, but it just fly straight over his head, it’s actually funny how Un romantic he is lol.

    I’ll be off now as he home

    Much salaams to all

  • Lynnette

    February 11, 2014

    As Salaamu Alaikum, and peace to each of you,

    @Sister Laila,

    When we — I say we, because I really mean this as much for myself as I do for you — take stock of our lives, and we start to decide what really matters vs. what can be compromised…

    The privacy and discretion you mention seem like the most obvious things. They should be enforced, bilaterally.

    Your Master’s being paid for seems to have no place in your co-wife’s discussions. In Islam, a husband’s money is not “Community Property.” You are a wife — and you wish a Master’s Degree more than you wish a maid. Where is the disparity in that?

    How important is having a child to you, right now? This strikes me — outsider looking in, of course — as one of the biggest issues affecting your marriage. Is that a non-compromise issue for you?

    Your co-wife’s behavior really is her issue; your response is your issue. Your responses seem to be appropriate….

    Sister Laila, hearing your husband say that things should be “reconsidered”, do you think that’s in reply to any threat you have ever made to leave the marriage?

    Threatening to leave a marriage without taking action to do so still provokes insecurity in the other partner. Survival instinct almost reflexively makes a person think about life without their partner, and how that might be. Too much thought leads to the construction of a reality where the partner is no longer there — can the death of the marriage be far behind?

    Sisters, In Shaa Allah, let none of us threaten abandonment/divorce to provoke insecurity, or to change behavior. It seldom works long-term for that purpose.

  • Laila

    February 11, 2014

    Maryam, I know that at the back of my mind youre right. But right now, I am enjoying my ME time. Really…. I guess youre also right about whether we should or should not be together. But as of now, I think ive had enough of everyone [ my mum, him, her, their kids etc ]. Maybe I am burnt out. Not angry with anyone, but just avoiding them. They never acknowledge my part, never have been grateful, love to use me, and Ive had enough.

    Hes never once talked about the lies they created after it blew up. Hes asked me to be with other men, and now wants to make a baby with me? Insane is the only word splashed through my mind.

    Anyway. Im going to stop talking about him and them. Im mentally flushed out. Just could use a break, which I am. Grateful his son is back. Thats an excuse to get him out of my face.

  • maryam

    February 11, 2014

    Laila,

    I think as women we go to the extremes of emotions. Maybe in your case after 10 years of trying to keep the peace and accommodate your husband you are emotionally exhausted and angry and need to work your way through it.

    Part of that process may be your husband acknowledging your sacrifices, pain. I do feel he should accommodate you as much as possible regarding kids as he has experienced being a parent and you havent.

    I agree with having independence in a marriage, but not if its to escape from or punish the other person. Your husband is right about that not being healthy. Im doing that to some degree myself.

  • Laila

    February 11, 2014

    Ana, I wish I could say you’re spot on. But as of now, he’s very far from my heart and mind.

    Maryam, yes. We fought because I want to adopt and he wants us to try again. The down side? Im the lab experiment.

    Life is just boring with him. He can’t handle matters. Hes good at earning cash, but thats about it. Really. He doesn’t care about my feelings. Why should I care? I like where we are right now. I feel that theres loads of peace and aren’t butting heads. Ana, for the life of me,I don’t know whats wrong. But in this wrong situation,I am having my space, privacy, and some good alone time to do my thing.

    He texted me yesterday and said it’s unhealthy for a marriage to be such. Me doing my own thing. And he does his. I just didnt even bother to reply. Today I asked him whether hes coming home,because I thought of putting up a night at my friends home. He immediately asked me whether I needed him to buy him anything. I was so surprised. He usually never wants to buy stuff on the way back from office.

    Whats wrong with me,

  • maryam

    February 11, 2014

    At the moment when i come close to ending it all i look at my husband and think you are foolish, have poor judgement, like a an 18yr old in a 30-something body but you are not mean or selfish, you are gentle natured and i feel my heart softening.

    I show him mercy becauae in many ways he needs me MUCH more than i do him.

  • maryam

    February 11, 2014

    Ana you’re right.

    I guess if the wife has reached the end of her patience she goes. If not she stays longer. It’s not healthy, not spiritually, emotionally or mentally. Its exhausting.

  • maryam

    February 11, 2014

    Salam alaikum everyone,

    In many ways i feel similar to you Laila. My concern is if i keep feeling that way we’ll just end up living seperate lives so whats the point of being married?

    Could your husband be insecure about the fertility issue? Maybe he thinks you will leave him over it, hence why he bows down to no.1 so he doesnt end up with no wife?

    I find it hard to forget some of my husbands actions like announcing he was going to meet a potential 2nd 4 weeks after one of my parents died!!!!!! I could go on but im on a phone, just as well.

    For me id almost rather be single than for us to just co-exist. I called him room mate yesterday!!! Didnt go down well. We are soooo different in terms of career, education, goals etc it can be frustrating.

  • ana

    February 11, 2014

    Laila,

    I think what happens is a wife talks smack to her husband, saying I’m going to do this and I’m going to do that and I don’t like this and I don’t like that. The husband then gives the wife her walking papers. She then becomes in the state of shock. She actually expected him to plead and beg saying, for instance, please baby, please baby, please, but she finds he does not do it. Now they’re back to school square one. It pretty much is all game. What are we really trying to achieve?

    This is an open house no need to knock just come on in

  • Laila

    February 11, 2014

    Dear Ana, God… I had typed out my response and now it’s gone missing.

    Well yes, on the outside it may seem all honey and peaches. But it’s not. I live with this man and therefore I know what he’s said to me over time and sometimes Ana, words cut like a knife. As of recent, whenever we argue, he would say, that I can look for another man to lead my life with. The most recent tiff that occured, had him saying that I had better “re-think” matters.

    Ana, Ive been with this man for years. I have been with him from the time he was a nobody and not had enough cash. Last year, in the hope of us being parents and HIM being the cause of our infertility issues, I went through multiple miscarriages. After all this time, do you think it’s appropriate for him to tell me that I can still look for other men? Just of very recent this is the same man that talk’s about commitment… ?!… Usually I would just listen to this crap. But this time round, I just told him to save his s*** talk.

    The rule to us both wives is that we both don’t find out each other purchases / personal info. Yet, she found out about me buying jewellery from my relatives on his side. She even knows about him paying for my Masters Education. When I ask him, he just goes quiet. When the lie concocted by both mother and daughter blew up in their faces, he had nothing much to say. Till today, he’s not approached the subject with me.

    Ive given in from day one. I knew very well what I was getting myself into. But now that I am getting older, I just expect a bit of love and understanding. He always tells me that I am the ‘better wife / person’ by not entertaining her crazy antics. Guess what, I am tired of being the better person. Can she take turns? ….

    I expected a bit of loyalty and a bit of respect. Guess after 13 years I didn’t get that. Ive told him to take the weekend with his family. I didn’t ask it to be replaced. But in fact, I just don’t want him around. I love my time on my own. I get to do the things that I like.

    I hardly call or text anymore nowdays. We are very polite to one another. There’s no shouting or harrasment. But I keep things to a bare minimum when it comes to him. Somehow, peace has followed…..

    I like that we maintain the distance. I don’t get distracted by the chaos she causes and best of all, I get peace and harmony in my home and within myself.

    Ive always put him before my needs. Yet when the ‘re-think’ statement came, it really did cut me up into pieces. When I said, okay, let’s get it over with, he somehow changed his mind completely. How convenient?!…. Ive often heard that some couples take a break from the relationship and it’s worked wonders for their self-esteem, and soul. Ive in some ways decided to do the same.

    I have started to shift my focus to my business. Ive told him very nicely that if more digging takes place, then I will start too. I am tired of him telling us rules that somehow she doesn’t abide by. He’s always trying to handle her… Ive lost some percentage of respect for him in my heart. That’s whay when he starts with his love and commitment talk, I just don’t want HIM of all people talking about it. He’s not suitable.

    I don’t know why and how it’s come to this stage. All I know is that, he doesn’t deserve my love and attention any longer. I still do my part as a wife. But I don’t go beyond, which I used to do. He can fly kites.

    Salam.

  • ana

    February 10, 2014

    Oh, well, it’s a bit extra quiet today. I guess no news is good news. I’m just about tired of rehashing my same ole, same ole. I know you all are tired of hearing it, as well LOL. So, Insha Allah, I’ll shut my face about it till the next episode. I don’t foresee anything happening on my end until it comes time for me to vacation. It’s the other time of the year when “C” gets her panties in a wad rolling eyes.

    I just finished a workout. Insha Allah, I’m going to go shower, offer Ishat and climb into bed with a hot cup of tea and watch a movie. I’ll check for comments from my phone. Alex is due in tomorrow. It’s amazing how those three days fly by. surprise. I wonder what Gail’s doing.

    Laila,

    I want to say, I’ve been thinking about you and your marriage. I don’t see that you have it all that bad, me being on the outside looking in. Your marriage is legally registered as is hers. Your husband spends a good amount of time with you and you two go places and do things. He takes you on vacations. i dont know I think it goes back to the grass always looks greener on the other side. The reality is it ain’t all that. You’ve got a nice life. We have to learn to appreciated all the good we’ve got. Me too. Allah swt says verily His servants are ungrateful.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 10, 2014

    What baffles me is that some people do the same thing over and over again, keep getting the same result, but continue to do the same thing again, like clock work doh. Every year “C” takes Christmas time for vacation and just about eveeeeeery year the burger flipping joint interferes with her vacation, calls her in to work. Well, knowing that it’s a big burger season for Christmas shoppers and people being in a festive mood, blows off their job and don’t show up, would tell me, I’d better rethink taking my vacation that time of the year. But, nooooooo. She takes vacation the same time and gets called in and then gets upset because she can’t spend time with Alex and tells him to come home to me and go back to her on my days, like a broken record… A person has to be just about brain dead not to have figured out what to do by now. Take vacation a different time of the year sigh I’m gearing up for this year already, LOL. No one can make this stuff up.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 10, 2014

    @Spirited,

    I speak of everything being predestined and I don’t waiver in my belief. We don’t know what has been written for us; therefore, we carry on with life as though we are making decisions and making things happen; although we really aren’t. It’s my belief. I’m not asking anyone to concur with me. I believe we are still accountable for whatever it is that we do etc. I only say this to say that People will try us to see how much they can get away with.

    If your husband’s other makes demands and pitches a *itch to get what she wants, your husband will do what he can to accommodate her and shut her up. He knows you will do nothing, but accept whatever he sales you or dishes out to you.

    Let’s take a look at “C” and my situation. About “C” trying to send Alex home to me all those many times over the last seven years, it would have been much easier for him to come home to me and I accept him with no qualms rather then he having to hear her *itch and moan. But, no. I said no dice. You stay there where you belong unless she wants to forfeit her days, but you don’t come here to me when she sends you and go back to her when she summons you back (on my days).

    Numerous times I’ve dealt with him with it, going through the same scenario and the same dialogue. Yes, we argued. Yes, there was confrontation, yet, he ended up doing what was right. He abide by the schedule. She became furious this last time and acted out by sending me the pic of my husband’s private part. Well, Happy New Year to her. She lost her days and I had a wonderful weeks vacation with Alex at home, which I never anticipated. I bet you she’ll think twice about trying to take my days again, less she ends up with her days taken. It reaches a point when enough is enough. “C” is sliding down a slippery slope.

    I say this simply to state that your husband will dance to his other woman’s beat, knowing he can get away with not having to deal with you about it.

    Spirited, yes, it’s good to exercise patience, perseverance and pray. Just make sure it’s what you’re doing and not simply repressing your feelings of anger, bitterness etc which has a way of manifesting itself in other ways such as with psychosomatic illnesses etc.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 10, 2014

    @Spirited, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    About the running and hiding that I mentioned, Sister Lynnette seems to have said more clearly and articulately what I wanted to say. I get a feeling you may be pursuing med school to show your husband who you are and what he missed out on should you two divorce and you become successful and prosperous.

    As Lynnette stated, we need to do everything seeking the good pleasure of Allah with no ulterior motive. You said you want to get as far away from your husband as possible so he won’t be able to rely on you. He will realize how valuable you are and what he is missing. Yet, you say, on the other hand, that you don’t care anymore. You said you want to focus on you, going back to school and operating as if he wasn’t a factor. You care because you advised him that if he continues his behavior, not to be surprised at what happens. It’s an indirect threat. Threats aren’t made by those who do not care. You need to be true to yourself,

    Acting as if he wasn’t a factor, is placing you in a state of denial. He is a factor. You said you have to ACT as if he is not. It amounts to putting your head in the sand, so to speak or walking about with blinders on. You’re good with excuses, Spirited.

    I understand about wanting to avoid an argument or confrontation, however, at times, confrontation, which causes arguments is warranted. There are times when Allah swt tells us that we have rights and there is action we can take. There are other times for patience and relying on Allah completely without trying to intervene.

    Regarding the recommendation that you need, I suggest you reach out to the Professor and remind her to do it. It could be she is extremely busy, and is hoping you got someone else to do it. She may have forgotten. She may think she has time to do it as there is no hurry since you have not contacted her. It can’t hurt for you to reach out to her and inquire.

    Sis Spirited, I know I come across a bit hard on you, but I think a little more assertiveness on your part would go a long ways. Insha Allah, ask Allah to help you with this (assertiveness and standing up against oppression), if it is good for you, let it happen for you. Allah knows best.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Lynnette

    February 10, 2014

    As Salaamu Alaikum, and peace to all,

    @Sister Spirited,

    Whatever it is we do, we must first begin by setting our intention, right?

    :confusedister, you know I am counting on you to help me increase in knowledge, so correct me wherever I may fall::

    What is your intention for medical school? Is it to be an instrument of Allah (Great and Glorious is He), and to help deliver healing, health and hope to the people who need those precious gifts?

    Is it to escape a bad situation without having to make a scene?

    Is it to force your husband’s hand into making decisions about the marriage?

    In order to receive Allah’s favor, our intentions must be to do all things for His Glory, right?

    I took the long way, Dear, because I wanted to illustrate something to you of a mistake I made.

    I wanted a divorce from my very high-conflict husband, and to avoid the fall-out from that divorce (the conflict).

    I applied for jobs everywhere, all over the globe, to get away because I felt weak. Actually, Sister, my faith was weak.

    Do this for Allah (swt) so that you may receive his Blessings. Do it for yourself, so that you may live the live you will love. Don’t go hoping that it will help you avoid problems you would rather not confront.

  • Spirited

    February 10, 2014

    Salaam everyone,

    Getting hit with Monday blues huh? laughing Pretty quiet around here! I’m just about finished with the lab report I was working on (nodded off last night -_o). Then I have to read the next two (the professor is pretty optimistic that we’ll get to them both, lol).

    @Ana, I’m not sure if that would be considered running, I’d like to see it as more like teaching him a lesson. MAYBE. I don’t need to run or hide, and I don’t think I have my head in the sand. Its simply that I don’t care anymore. I’m focused on me, and my going back to school, and I’m operating as if he wasn’t a factor in my life. Shoot, I even told him, if he keeps up this behavior, don’t be surprised at what happens. I have no qualms about divorcing and moving on, it’s not as if he’s done much for me, or that I depend on him for anything as it is.

    But of course, prayer, patience & perseverance are the only things keeping this marriage together. That and I’m naturally an optimistic person who avoids causing problems. I think that leads me to not argue about a lot of things that most of you gals do/stand up for myself more. Well, let’s see how it goes.

    I’ll be sure to fill you guys in on the trip next month. First of all though, I’m thinking things are going to be awkward over there. laughing

    @Laila, yea, those sound like inns. It sounds like you had a good time at one happy I’ll look those up in a little bit (just to see them). Has your husband gotten into a better “mood” ? lol though, really why do they try to argue about their other wife(ves) if you don’t agree with them about the woman? I feel like I should do the same thing and start ignoring my husband, see how he likes that treatment laughing. Well, maybe next time he makes me angry.

    I hope everyone is doing good. This week is off to a slow start (just feels like a “dragging on” type of week to me). Tomorrow after class, I’m planning to stay at my parents’ other house (same one that my husband sleeps at sometimes). I have to try to get to a vascular lab before 7am to catch one of my old professors who works there who said she would write a letter of recommendation (that was in november!). Since then, she’s either avoiding me or I’m just unlucky and she’s busy. One of the other employees there told me to try coming in early and catching her. Honestly, if you’re not going to do something, just say you can’t do it. Don’t tell me you’re going to do something, then waste my time by not doing it. I could just as easily request it from people at two or three other hospitals -_-. So, sleeping over there would make it easier since its muuuuuch closer to the place than home.

    Ok, that’s enough of my rambling for now. Talk to you ladies later~ happy

  • ana

    February 9, 2014

    @Spirited,

    I dunno. You better get your head out of that sand. You could run, but you sure can’t hide. Where ever you go and whatever you do, you still have a husband who is married to you and to another. What to do? Patience, perseverance and prayer is all I can suggest for you. You’re in a pickle.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Laila

    February 9, 2014

    Dear Spirited, I am so glad that clarity has dawned upon you in terms of your hubbs. happy Maybe the distance will give you a fresh start and give you your own personal space; away from husband and family. No wonder your parents are angry, because they clearly see that he’s doing nuts to step up his game to you. Well let’s leave that aside. Okay the boutique hotels as Ive referred to are small inns I think in your country, but they are well decorated. They don’t have many rooms and they do provide breakfast. The one that I went to was actually in my hometown. The cost of living is generally cheaper, but they are charging higher rates. Hubbs loves staying over at different and unique hotels because he’s an architect and he get’s some ideas through such places. He would even look at the type of switches, flooring, layout of the room etc. Plus point for me is that, I get to stay and enjoy myself hehehehe!!!!….. To give you an idea of what I am talking about, do check out the hotel I stayed in. Type out : M Boutique Hotel Ipoh, Malaysia. You can even try Casa Del Rio, Malacca, Malaysia.

    As in regards of the free-thinkers [ I call them that ] they will always create excuses. Excuses that enables them to lead the kind of lifestyle that they want. It’s convenient to say that God doesn’t exist. It’s easy. It’s also easy to say that all the success earned is through our own hard work and there wasn’t such a thing as divine intervention…. Personally Spirited. I AVOID nut jobs like this in my life. I believe in G-D / Allah s.w.t…. I believe in our Prophet, I believe in our Quran, I believe in angels. How do I personally in my heart know Allah s.w.t. exists? When Im deeply troubled, somehow Allah s.w.t. gives me an answer to my question through the responses of others. Sounds very cliche, but then again, Ive experienced it, and will continue to experience it. I think it’s easy to always say God doesn’t exist. God doesn’t exist because we don’t make an effort to find him. To seek out his love / blessings. Even now, as I am typing out my reply to you, is very much because Allah s.w.t. has allowed it to be happy

    Dear Ana, how I wish we all here could be such. Not bothered by the silliness of such celebrations. Celebrations that only add unwanted stress and complicate matters. Where people need to have an excuse to so call celebrate their love. In my point of view, it’s a shallow manner to show / express one’s love…..

    Dear Aishah, I am very very glad your girl is getting better happy I am also happy that she’s taken a liking to the new cat on the block happyThat’s nice….

    Dear all, hubbs left for work this morning and left in anger, I guess. sad During our trip, we met up with my aunt [ the one that joined us in our recent vacation ] She took us out for lunch and we had fun. During our chat, she said that all families must be united and stick with one another. Anyway, hubbs took that line and ran with it this morning. He brought up about his relationship with his kids and how our marriage has in some ways affected them. Now it seems that they are accepting and more relaxed with things. We were talking and talking and somehow, it went into the topic of my co. He said that she’s far more understanding and stuff. To which I said, “sorry but I don’t agree”. How can I? Just of recent she dug up more stories about what I bought from my relatives [ husband's side ]. I even stated that she’s got a better lifestyle than me. She doesn’t work, yet she has a maid and stuff. Anyway I guess he expected me to ‘agree’ that my co is all sweet and full of love now. I just said, ‘no’. I didn’t bash her personality. I dodn’t say that she’s a c**. I just said, ‘no’.

    I told him that my priorities for this year has changed. It’s about ME. My business and ME achieving my goals. I told him I don’t care how he runs his show on the other side. I just hope it doesn’t disturb mine. I even told him that I am still hurt / sore about a lot of things that he hasn’t handled well, but I am not going to be blind sighted to who exactly a person is. So, live with it. I think he’s seeing that I am putting work before him right now, and he’s bugged. Tough luck. The day he said we needed to re-think matters was THE DAY I saw the whole world very differently.

    He took an extra weekend to spend Chinese New Years with her. Ive told him that he doesn’t need to replace it. His son is down from Australia, and so I told him that he can use the time to bond with his ‘family’. He just gave me a sad look, and usually I am the type to ask and see what’s bugging him. This time round, I didn’t ask….

    That’s from my side so far girls.

    Salam.

  • Spirited

    February 9, 2014

    Salaam gang,

    @Laila, no worries, I’m not upset with anyone happy (maybe myself, lol). I agree with you (and everyone else) he really does need to step up and start acting like a husband, it’s almost 7 yrs (next month). I talked to him on thursday. Maybe something finally clicked. I don’t know, probably not. I’m really hoping to get accepted into a school in another state, relatively far away, so that I’m away from him for a long time. I think he’s taking me for granted because I’m always here for him & whatever he needs, I can easily handle it. Maybe if he has to depend on his incompetent 2nd wife for a while or his own “skills” then he’ll realize what he’s missing winking. As always though, I’m not holding my breath, he may be just too selfish to ever care. rolling eyes

    I’ve never heard of a “boutique hotel” I’ll have to look it up right after I finish this post. You know, speaking of new idealogies, I recently saw a bit about “ufology” laughing On one hand, these people discredit angels as being aliens (to them, Prophet Jesus is also an alien) and that these aliens are what humans call God (or gods — like in ancient cultures). Yet, at the same time, they believe that there’s a god that made the aliens laughing. Some of them spoke of how they were religious but after all their work, are atheists and they’re happy to see that every year more and more people are leaving religion.

    Something that was pretty interesting is that researchers have found that among some of the earliest writings (i.e., Sumerian cuneiform), they’ve found stories that are reflected in modern religion — there’s stories very similiar to the story of creation like in the Bible, as well as a specific account of the Great Flood (Prophet Noah but the Sumerians had a different name for him). The researchers wanted to say that Prophet Noah didn’t exist, and it was one of these aliens 4,000+ years before the Torah/Bible/Quran and these texts just re-use the stories of the aliens laughing. I found it funny how they wouldn’t (or maybe are blinded and can’t) see that all their research could instead show that Allah has been guiding humanity for even longer than people think (obviously Allah would have been guiding humans from the very beginning!)

    @Aishah, I’m happy to hear that your cat is getting better, Insha’Allah, he’ll be back to full health soon.

    @Ana, you’ve brought up a good point — I believe that religiously charged holidays belonging to other religions should be avoided. That’s Valentine’s Day (St. Valentine), Easter, Halloween (Pagan), Christmas (Pagan-now-Christian). I think those are the major ones. We don’t celebrate these either. Well, I don’t. Who knows what the husband celebrates with his non-Muslim wife (though if he does celebrate religious holidays of other religions…that’s between him and Allah). But like you, I do Eid, anniversary & birthday, and that’s that big grin Thanksgiving is a celebration of good will, so sometimes the family will get together, sometimes not, its kind of just like a regular family get together since most people are off anyway.

    @Lynnette, nice to see more of you around big grin How are you doing now? I like what you said, its an interesting take on how that kind of idealized love for another human can take your mind off God. You can easily see it in teenagers and how their crush/love is on their minds 24/7, to such an extent that they even begin to hate their family. (that’s the same with any obsession though, I guess).

    Hmmm, well, I’ll be back later on. I want to try to finish this lab report tonight, so I can spend tomorrow reading up on the next lab experiment. Sometimes I wonder why I signed up for this class last minute. I sure could have used the time off laughing

  • ana

    February 9, 2014

    @Lynnette, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    My ideal of what love is has me messed up till this very day. My living, dying, prayers and sacrifices that should have been for Allah swt were all for a love relationship. It was my reason for living. I used to daydream all the time while in class in high school about being with the one I love and living happily ever after. I searched high and low for it when dating. I could never find the ideal and I became sad, depressed and frustrated as I wasn’t able to achieve it. No one ever told me it doesn’t exist. It’s not real. I was chasing an illusion. Now, I’m still trying to get myself right and accept the true reality. What I was searching for is not real sad

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Lynnette

    February 9, 2014

    As Salaamu Alaikum, and peace to all:

    @ Sister Valuable Star,

    You seem so sweet, and you’re about the age of my elder child — my son — also an idealist, I might add.

    The love you describe exists mostly in the pages of romance novels. It is a beautiful idea– but my years of life have shown me that this idea does not work well in practice.

    Sister, what good are professions of love and these “feelings” if they lead me astray from Allah (swt)? These “feelings” can actually prove dangerous — and I mean that in a more than “Romeo and Juliet”-tragedy sort of way. People set up these “false images” or “idols” in their mind, and then, they worship those instead of the one Allah — the true Source of all that exists, and all that ever will exist.

    There was a well-researched article in a respectable U. S. publication that described the process of falling in love with such precision that I doubt I could ever trust that feeling again. In Shaa Allah, Sister Ana will forward the link to the article, because I will be sending it to her for your benefit.

    Sister, trust me — I have done this wrong in enough ways to tell you — romantic love is seldom trustworthy. And if I should happen to sound like a Pakistani Auntie, then so be it….something upon which Auntie and I agree.

  • ana

    February 9, 2014

    Laila,

    You did a very nice write up about love and expressing it. The “love” that “Valuable Star” speaks of – complete devotion, trust, loyalty etc is absolute. Nothing is absolute, but ALLAH. Complete devotion, trust and loyalty are what we should have for our Creator and no one and nothing else. If we have any of them for anything or anyone other than Allah swt we’re going to get hurt.

    Aishah,

    Good to hear the kitten and your cat are getting along now and the kitten is getting better. Alhumdulliah!

    Spirted,

    I’m excited for you about your upcoming travel. I can’t wait for you to get there and come back, so you could fill us in on your adventure happy

    Ummof4,

    You had me cracking up when you mentioned the characters from the movies “DIED”. LOL I hadn’t even thought of it hee hee

    Jenny,

    I so see your husband and you as the characters on the “Adam’s Family”. I’d put the little video up here, if I knew where to find it on the blog. I had placed it on the blog previously someplace. I used to love that show.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 9, 2014

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Peace to All,

    Laila

    Yes, nice post! happy

    Many of these holidays only create more problems than they are worth. More than anything, they are huge money making days for merchants. They cause a lot of sadness for a lot of people. I know Alex dislikes “Valentines Day”.

    Alex and I never celebrated any holidays other than acknowledging our wedding anniversary, our birthdays, and the New Year. There was no special celebrating, big hooplah or anything, just something private and personal between he and I. I disliked the holidays, other than New Years, even before I was Muslim.

    Thanksgiving is like a usual Sunday for me. My wali/bestess’ wife helps her mom out in cooking a big meal for their family and she always shares with Alex and me, or with just me, when he’s not here, as she does on most Sundays (when Alex is not with me). I go pick up the meals. Alex just loves, loves, loves her cooking, as I do too.

    A birthday may be a card or something simple like a cupcake with a candle in it or a small cake. Last year, he was really sweet in that he sent me flowers happy. He was away on business at the time. He’s a sweetheart like that. For instance, he has sent me chocolate covered strawberries when he was to return from vacation with “C”.

    Alex and I used to simply looked forward to having a day off from work together on the holidays. It was the highlight of a holiday. Now that I don’t work, the day off isn’t significant as he and I have many, many days off together.

    My goal is to get to a place where I don’t notice the day (holiday) from any other. This Valentines Day works well for Alex, as he’s with me 1/2 the day and then goes to her. He’s off this Valentines day. Insha Allah, we’ll do the usual, sleep in and he’ll prepare a brunch when I get up. It’s nothing different than we usually do on weekends or days he takes off during the week. He stays up after Fajr prayer and then joins me latter in bed. I go back to bed after Fajr.

    Non-Muslim holidays are actually an unnecessary burden for Muslims especially those in polygamous marriages. It’s why I want to be at a place where they are totally insignificant and just another day.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Aishah 2014

    February 9, 2014

    Good job Laila. PS cat is doing better.not eating a whole lot,needs hand feeding and has frequent Dr. appointments.must say she adjusted better to the kitten in her life than I did to my very young Co.they are playing.o well I did try!

  • Laila

    February 9, 2014

    Dear ladies, i just got home from a trip to another state and I am so …. tired. But then again had funn attending my high school friend’s wedding happy Seems to me that boutique hotels are the ‘in’ thing in my country now. They charge the SAME amount for as of a four star hotel. I guess society loves the idea that it’s unique and not catered for hundreds of people. It was a good experience all together.

    Dear Spirited, I am really sorry. Really. I just got a bit serious with you because how I wish some other sister could have sat me down years ago and told me to get my priorities right. I understand the situation you’re in, but he needs to step up on his game plan. Really… I am not asking you to wreck havoc, but I am asking you to be an assertive woman. Men at times need to be reminded time and again as of what their duties are. Anyway, no matter what you do, or not do, WE ARE HERE happy [ hugs / bear hugs! ]

    Dear Gail, yes, it’s great that I am aware of what I want. Just the other day I was watching the short video on Youtube by Tony Robbins, and there was a questions he posed, “What’s your motivation?”… I’ve finally got my answer, and im not in a moral dilemma about it. My motivation is …. ‘MONEY’. Aha! Many people I know would say, gosh, isn’t that a bit too materialistic? Nope! Yes, we shouldn’t worship money but we should work hard too. Money provides an avanue to lead a more comfortable life, and to also carry out more charitable acts and to give back more to the soceity. I hope that one day once I am really well off and comfortable, I am able to open up a animal shelter. Sounds crazy, but that’s how I would love to see my money spent. Right now, I am feeding the stray cats at my condo, and the stray dogs / puppies at my office area. And by doing so, I feel so damn good! Everytime I am about to feed them, I would say this in my heart, “Dear Allah s.w.t. I feed these strays for You, for You have provided for me, and I shall provide for them”. That’s about my activity so far.

    Dear Ana, I think in regards to the statements of Valuable Star, well, this IS THE PROBLEM. Many would want the exclusiveness of a ‘one man’ relationship. You can’t really own a man 100%… I think many are brain washed by many modern age ideas. Let’s not go far, Valentines is near, trust me, loads of people will book restaurants, buy flowers / gifts, have unprotected sex BECAUSE they think that that IS LOVE. I USED to be fall into this silly category of people too. Till one day, hubbs told me this, “I may not be religious, but I don’t need Valentines to prove my love to you. I love you everyday of my life. My love to you is my commitment and by me being a husband”. I always expected dinners and flowers but nowdays I don’t. In fact, I love it when hubbs buys me flowers on normal days because I don’t have to be a yuppie and celebrate my love on a given day by what society had dictated. Love isn’t about days. yes some of us here celebrate wedding anniversaries, but that’s about it. Love isn’t about having one man to yourself and expect devotion like a Queen. Love to me [ personally from my experience ] is when, he makes me coffee when we are on holiday. Love to me is when he buys me gifts and totally unexpected. Love for me is when, he hugs me and holds me hand in public.

    I think a man can marry and have soul mates, best friends, mothers, lovers, and a friend in more than one woman. I know for a fact he looks at my co as this ideal and superb mother to his kids and a good house manager. He looks at me as a friend and as someone who’s sometimes the clown and sometimes a ‘youngster’ that’s needs coaching in life.

    Loyalty is something that even when we are engaged in a monogamous relationship, it does become an issue. Loyalty… big word. Yes there are many polygamous set up’s where the husband may favour one more. Hey, till today all you ladies know that my co has a way better deal. Can I still brand my hubbs as not having loyalty? No… I know no matter what, hubbs is loyal to me. He’s a good provider and he eventhough can be a prick makes an attempt to spend more time and get to know what I like. Mind you, we are twenty years in age differences. That is loyalty to me.

    Following new age ideas and idealogies make you a messed up person. Worhip you creator and love will follow. It may not be the ‘perfect version’ that we read in books or watch on tv, but love will surely come / manifest. It’s up to US to see it, feel it, and not question it’s logics. Love isn’t by the book or rules, but by feeling it in the heart.

    Salam ladies! happy

  • Judith

    February 9, 2014

    That’s pretty funny Jenny. Since about all I can do right now is put my head in my hands and pretend it is summer, I’m reminded of how I see myself whenever I’m out deadheading spent roses; Morticia.

  • Gail

    February 9, 2014

    My marriage is like “Rosanne” Sitcom.I am so totally Rosanne and my mother is the exact same as Rosanne’s mother on the show.Hubby is like Dan and I even have a crazy sister like Jackie.lol

  • ummof4

    February 8, 2014

    Jenny,

    My husband and I are the Cliff and Claire Huxtable type(from the Cosby Show that was on TV from 1984-1992). As a matter of fact, when the show was on there were a number of people who used to say that about us, and my husband had two wives at that time.

  • Jenny

    February 8, 2014

    @ Umm4

    Who in the world wants Romeo & Juliet??? Personally, hubby and I are the Morticia & Gomez style! laughing

  • Spirited

    February 8, 2014

    Salaam,

    I hope everyone is off to a good weekend!

    @Muhammad(Scot) laughing no offense taken. I don’t respect my husband enough to care, for now. Also, my parents don’t respect him at all, so you’re incorrect about that. I would have LOVED to have Gail’s warnings 6 years ago, when I married, but that’s not the way life works out for me. happy Thank you for your prayers, Insha’Allah, my husband isn’t pulling anymore strings and life takes a turn for the better sooner than letter.

    The only thing I would suggest with you and your wives, is to remind that that you are spending as much time with them as is possible, and get their suggestions as to how they think you could “fix” their grievances. If their suggestions aren’t feasible, show them how you just don’t have the hours in the day to do it. Other than that, not much else I could suggest.

    @Gail, lol girlfriend, I’m feeling you there. I’m very negative about Pakistani men now as well, there’s no doubt about it. Totally agree with your assessment about bullying wives as well — I called it threatening with a 3rd wife, but that’s almost the same thing.

    @Ana, I love what you said “….when the husband becomes polygamous, well, everything changes.” That is so very true. Really insightful words.

    @Valuable Star, nice to hear from you again. And again, you’re speaking about the fairy tale relationship. There may be a FEW men like that out there, but the morals of most men in today’s society are almost non-existent, and none of that “true love” garbage like you’re envisioning it exists in reality. Its a different form in reality, so you would do good not to walk around with blinders on unless you want to get sideswiped. I do wonder what Muhammad will reply to your questions when he gets a chance.

    @Carissa, that’s a lovely story, Insha’Allah, your marriage will be happy big grin Thank you for sharing!

    @Marie, I hope you’re doing well, its nice to hear from you again. I like the categories you made up, pretty nice explanation!

    I booked my 12-day trip for next month. Worked on some course work, worried over if I’ll get accepted anywhere, then watched a tv movie laughing. If it isn’t one thing, it’s another right? lol. Might go watch a movie with some relatives tomorrow at the theater, husband is with his 2nd wife. Oh, my car is still buried under the ice-snow combination -_-. It was interesting how the the storm that was being predicted for this weekend just went in a different direction! Weather is always so interesting happy. Well, its been a bit slow around here, but I’ll check in again later (if not, goodnight ahead of time!).

  • maryam

    February 8, 2014

    Nice to hear your story Carissa, it reminds me a bit of my own. I understand what you mean about marrying someone you don’t know well and feeling the love grow through considerate and kind treatment of each other.

    I think it was very good that the iman knew your husband well as your friend did you. Sometimes with these arranged meetings the people involved dont know the prospective partner well and i think that’s when big differences are more likely to arise later on.

  • marie

    February 8, 2014

    Just to conclude. Just because your in monogamous marriage does not mean your love and loyalty ( type B) is exclusive for each other. It’s still shared. In polygamy the only thing I can think of (correct me if I’m wrong, those of you who are in polyganous marriage) that was exclusive is intimacy, which really don’t have that much to do with love and loyalty, as I’m sure men and women would still love their spouse if they was never intimate (e.g if your partner dies most people continue to love that person).

  • Carissa

    February 8, 2014

    I will save her the trouble of asking if she really wants to know. There are two types of Muslimahs on this board. Those of us who convert and then begin looking for a good Muslim man to marry, and those who converted after they met and was introduced to Islam from a good Muslim man. Along with great Christian and Jewish ladies. Most of us know that Muslim men can marry anyone of one of the Abrahamic religions. What they can’t do, or should not do is date. So we are very limited on the amount of contact we can have with one another. All contact is to be supervised. As for how could I marry after only a week? 7 days? Really it was simple. I was ready to be married. I understood what I wanted out of a husband., which in my case was someone that could love me, someone that would protect me, and someone who could teach me more about my religion. He met all those qualities. I knew from talking to him that he can make a commitment,. He was kind. He could provide for me and our family. He practiced his/our religion. We met through an Iman, who happens to be one of his best friends. He knew he was looking and after talking to my friend thought that he and I would be compatible. The thing with these deals is that you must be very truthful about what you want and what you need. He was very formal, you see the type of man that I am, and what I can provide. If you find that acceptable then I want you to be my wife. We were talking about that the other day. He said, you needed a husband I needed a wife….what else could we do. Gee honey, the romance just goes on and on! LOL. He is very sweet. Just he words things so matter of fact. That took a bit to get used too. happy. I admit it seemed strange being married to a man I did not love yet. But the love developed. I remember the first time I said I Love You. He paused and said That is the first time you said that.! He had been saying it a while. A week or two maybe longer. That made him so happy. Islam is a different life style than I lived as a Christian. You must have trust. Strive to live within God’s will. And he will provide you with your needs. My husband was/is everything I was looking for and more than I ever thought to ask for. Very attentive. Very loving. And we even seem to have a connection I have never felt with anyone. Of course it’s only 7.5 months and we are still on our honeymoon. But really he is the kindest man. He will call during the day if he is real busy with work and apologies for being busy. I usually try to thank him for working so hard to provide for our family and assure him that I.understand. For those looking, tips I have learned is Pray for patients, something I was lacking. Pray for the wisdom to know what you really want/need. And pray for the man who is to be your husband that he have patients until you meet. That is one thing my husband has said was that he now understands why he could not find a good wife after his first wife died. That he was meant to meet me. I just wished we had met sooner. Maybe I would not appreciate him as much had we met when I first started looking.

  • ummof4

    February 8, 2014

    As-salaamu Alaikum and hello to all,

    Everyone remember, Romeo and Juliet both committed suicide. And in West Side Story Tony died. So much for passionate, romantic, I will die if you leave me love!

    As Ana says, in order to understand and find true love in this life one has to first try to understand what it means to love Allah and then do what is necessary to show that love for Him.

    Have a nice day full of Ebaadah (Obedience to Allah).

  • marie

    February 8, 2014

    Asalaamu alaykum all,

    @ valuable star, I forgot you were only 21, I remember being your age ( it wasn’t that long ago) anyway about the exclusive love and loyalty you speak of. Ana described it as “romeo and juliet” I will describe it as obsessive and psychotic, really the way you talk about how an “ideal” marriage would be sounds really worrying. Moreover I don’t think that exclusive love and loyalty can exist between two people unless neither of you are religious, have any friends or family and plan to never have children. Me and my husband love each other very much, at the moment we are monogamous, our love and loyalty is shared with friends, family, children and Muslims. you see even in monogamy exclusive love and loyalty for only your spouse is not reality. also the love and loyalty shared between people Comes with conditions. the person may, or may not be aware of what conditions they have place on there love and loyalty with another person be it you spouse, children or others, but it’s definitely there. it may or may not come to light, but it’s definitely there. I’ll call that type of love: love B. Now love and loyalty type A. As others have described. this love and loyalty is reserved ONLY for our creator and comes mainly in the form of absolute obedience. It’s not the same type of love we have for each other. Type A is unconditional no matter what the believer may be feeling or doing or what calamity befalls them they still have exclusive love and loyalty for the creator. Just as a heads up don’t try to have L and L type A for humans as it almost always is one sided and nothing good will come of it. Just a lot of tears and regret.

  • Aishah 2014

    February 8, 2014

    missprint ton the question mark.mistake

  • Aishah 2014

    February 8, 2014

    Salaams.Carissa that’s good.guess that is the man Allah intended as your husband,not the other.congratulations.Muhammad(Scot) when you said your wife didn’t care so much about things until you got a second something clicked I could relate.my hub in fact prior to 2 nd was not the Guy who helped with kid homework did all the disciplining, attended their functions,etc.maybe did more of that with first set of kids, now grown, but not a whole lot.used to work a lot, not as much anymore, but depending on the 2 nd wife that can be a full time as well ( LOL be careful what you ask for!) so yes..now with 2 nd. somehow I kinda expected him to step up to plate and handle it all! course if I’m being real with myself and polygamy sure forces you to be..he wasn’t really cut out to do it all..that’s why he has me! ummoh4 I liked your advice to country girls?????????

  • ana

    February 8, 2014

    Regardless of how we try to explain it to her, Valuable Star, won’t get it. She is not Muslim and does not understand about the love and fear of Allah and all that Islam entails. She’s trying to look at Muslims and our way of life (polygamy), and examine love underneath a microscope. it can’t be done. To me, it seems she’s thinking of a “Romeo and Juliet” and “West Side Story” type of love. She’s not going to get it and it’s not for her to get – at this time, anyhow; it doesn’t matter how many people she talks to regarding it. I expect next she’d ask Carissa how she married a person after having known him only one week. Islam is a totally different way of life than any other.

    Carissa, it’s so good to hear you married and you and your husband are compatible. I pray only the best for the two of you. Thank you for updating us on what has transpired in your life. thumbs up.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Carissa

    February 8, 2014

    I am trying to catch up with everyone. As I have been very busy. I was to be married to a Jordanian man as his second wife. We talked several months until he refused to ask first wife for permission. I told him I refused to come over till he ask. As I would not break up the family. If she said no, then it was no for both of us. I am very glad I stood my ground. I believe in polygamy and know there is a tome and place for it.
    An update on me is that I am now married to an Iraqi man, we have been married since June. We started talking and was married a week later. And I have never regretted it. He has lived here in the states for about twenty years. Lost his wife three years ago to cancer. He stayed by her side from diagnosis to death (4 months). They were married 32 years. He says she and I are vey much alike. Except she spoke Arabic and I English.. In fact one night I was upset, not at him, but none the less he kept saying i love you baby, I love you baby I love you baby……..I ask did you bug the crap out of your first wife? He said yes! I treat you both the same! So we started laughing. He is such a great man. Is he perfect? No, but neither am I. We discussed polygamy. He said he did not see a reason to have a second wife the first time even though his sisters was trying to talk him into taking a second wife as his first had trouble getting pregnant. The one sister was offering to sell her jewelry to get another wife. He was like no thank you. He and his first wife had two sons and twin daughters . They lost the twins when they were infants.,to identical heart issues . He said he did not see a reason this time. But I pray that it ever becomes a part of our lives that I will be a good first wife to whom ever Allah chose for our family. For now I will enjoy my new family and pray that maybe Allah blesses us with a little one to unite my children to his. A commonality. But as he says, I married you for you! Not for a baby. He said with his first wife she told him when he was 35 he could have a second, then when he was getting close she said, no I said 45, when you get 45 you can have a second wife. When he got 45 she said No I said 55. She then said after I am dead you can have amother wife. I laughed and said yes, that is the deal I want. LOL. He knows me though, if he feels the need to marry again I will accept it graciously in sha Allah.

  • ummof4

    February 8, 2014

    As-Salaamu Alaikum and hello to all,

    Valuable Star, You’ve got it all wrong. I love my husband deeply and he loves me deeply. But more important, we both strive to love Allah in the proper way. Without the love of Allah, any other love really means nothing at all.

    Country Girl, I wrote to you yesterday, but it didn’t go through because I was on a strange computer. So here goes.
    Welcome to the blog. If wife #3 could take your husband from you in 5 minutes it would have already happened. He is still married to you, so he still loves and cares about you.

    Husbands often go through a honeymoon phase with their new wives. If you were in different countries you most likely did not know of the pain of your husband’s first wife when you married him. Now you know what it feels like when your husband marries another wife. You don’t like the sharing and feel that she is trying to replace you. Your husband doesn’t understand why you are so against #3 when you were okay with being #2.

    Is #3 truly evil, or are you viewing her as such because you don’t like sharing. If she is, your husband probably doesn’t notice it. A husband has to thing the best of all of his wives’ after all, he did choose to marry them. It is difficult for a husband to admit that his wife has bad character’ he will feel hurt, pain and betrayal. Then he will decide to stay married to her r divorce her. This decision is his alone to make, not the wife’s.

    No one has the power to take a man from his wife. Any man who leaves does so because he wants to. Or he stays because he wants to. The issue is do you want to stay married to your husband? Can you and your husband work on your marriage to eliminate or decrease the turmoil? Can you block out #3 understanding that your husband is still married to #3?

    My advice is to talk to your husband without making #3 look or sound bad. If her behavior is outrageous, share with your husband’ if not, then just learn to ignore. Don’t let #3 control your life or marriage. You don’t have to defend yourself to her.

    Everyone remember Allah often during the day and night.

  • ana

    February 8, 2014

    If I hear one more time about some “Paralyzed” people and hear from those who twist Allah’s words to suit their desire, lying on Allah, saying Allah says a man is only supposed to have one wife, as he can’t be just between more than one woman, I will just scream…at wits end I wish they wouldn’t come here.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 8, 2014

    I thought back and counted; it was more like about a half dozen times that I was in love or thought I was truly in love before I married my husband.

    @Sameer/talha,

    I didn’t post your comment, as you are staunch against polygamy and believe it is not allowed. Many of the women here are in polygamous marriages and KNOW Allah (Great and glorious is He) permits polygamy. In response to your previous post, I thanked you for “PASSING BY,” as you stated it was what you were doing. Maybe I’m wrongfully speaking for all others here in saying, we don’t have time for it – your anti-polygamy rhetoric. Nonetheless, I don’t have time for it. This is not the blog for it. There are other blogs with people who support your position (anti-polygamy), where you would be welcome and feel more at home. Thank you again for “passing by”, however, the door is closed to you.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 8, 2014

    I have to ask myself why I try to convince someone who is barely out of her teens, probably never experienced anything other than some “puppy love” or “crush” on someone to even know or understand what “love” is, besides the fact she has barely experienced anything of life.

    I think “Valuable Star” and the Muslim sister who was here at the same time, conducting their “research” are 20 or 21 years old. I wasn’t always Muslim. I’m a revert/convert. I dated quite a bit before becoming Muslim and probably thought I was “in love” at least a dozen times. What does it all mean?

    The majority of the women here whose husbands are polygamous love their husbands very deeply and their husbands love them, as well. Men can love more than one woman at the same time. He may love one a little bit more than the other and one may be the favorite; it no way takes away completely the love he has for another.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • maryam

    February 8, 2014

    Just a question valuable star,

    Given your thoughts about polygamy, how do you rationalise when women such as Ummof4 etc have written about their love for their husbands? I think it was Ummof4 who wrote a beautiful post about the love between her and her husband on this thread.

    Obviously it runs against your own beliefs about 1:1 exclusivity of love. So do you think they are delusional or something like that?

    Im not attacking you im just interested how you make sense of the fact people say they have “true love” in polygamy when you seem to think thats impossible?

  • maryam

    February 8, 2014

    Ana,

    I think you said it all.

    Valuable Star,

    Regarding your questions maybe a man gets back what he puts into his marriage/s. If he gives unconditional love, loyalty, respect i think he would get it back. If he is selfish, impatient, disrespectful maybe he gets that back?

  • maryam

    February 8, 2014

    Wow, where to begin?

    @ Muhammed Scot, presumably 2nd wife knew before marriage she would only get week days? Did you agree before marriage?

    Also did you say no2 only calls for emergencies when you with no1? How many emergencies could she have had in 3yrs, its not like genuine emergencies happen often?!

    Country Girl welcome inshallah you get some peace soon. I wouldnt communicate with no.3 at all. Maybe she is trying to get you to leave the marriage which indicates to me she knows your husband wont leave you. Why cant no1 wife come to your country? Do you mind me asking how did you meet your husband and when did you know he had a wife?

    Valuable Star hello, im not against polygamy in principle but im nowhere near the peace Ana has. A few years ago i was similar to you probably. I dont agree that “romantic” love and loyalty is based on exclusivity,i dont agree polygamy automatically destroys women. Having said that i do get very upset when men behave badly and do not fulfill their responsibilities.

  • ana

    February 8, 2014

    Please don’t let me stand in the way of anyone who wants to entertain Valuable Stars questions. Please do so.

    Love Bubbles

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 8, 2014

    I’ve spoken here a number of times about how Muslims who strive to be Believers have to unlearned what they have learned. As long as a person concentrates on the things that Valuable Star speaks of: “complete love”, “complete trust”, “devotion” and “loyalty” with regard to another human being or wanting it for him or herself they will never be content and will never have peace in this life. Furthermore, they can forget about Jannah/Paradise. Complete “love”, “trust”, “devotion” and “loyalty” is for ALLAH and Allah alone. They are exclusively for our Creator who is Allah. Allah swt says He did not put two hearts in one body. Our hearts should be for Allah. Only BELIEVERS will get it.

    Allah swt created a husband and wife to live together in peace and tranquility. It won’t happen when the parties only think about themselves and what they can get from the other person. Let me say it again, Allah swt says He created us to serve and worship Him. He created us for no other reason or purpose. Those who don’t do it, will enter the Hellfire. Those who do what He created us for will enter Jannah/Paradise.

    A husband and a wife who serves and worship Allah swt can love one another, be romantic with one another and have peace and tranquility with one another when they obey, worship and serve Allah swt. As long as a person’s focus is on self with regard to what he is getting and not getting from another, he or she will have hell on earth. It’s not about which husband loves which wife more – none of it. Life is not about a husband and wife; it’s about Allah swt.

    As long as someone is caught up in ologies (sociology, psychology, anthropology, and any ology I missed) and this study and that study, they will have serious problems. The Quran is our criteria for life. It is what we should live by. In it is guidance for the Believer. It will take a person out of darkness into the light. It is a road map for the seeker of Truth. Muslims who are believers do not rely on theories and recognized it is only a miniscule amount of knowledge that they have. As I said before, the meaning of life is in the Holy Quran. Everything we need to know is in there. Only BELIEVER will get it sigh

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Valuable star

    February 8, 2014

    Hello!!

    Respectfully Muhammad(scot)on,

    If you please don’t feel offended I would like to know your View point regarding few things. Also I would be grateful to anyone who could spare time to answer it…..

    1> After getting to know uncountable polygamous stories, even almost all MEN have stated themselves that “COMPLETE LOVE AND COMPLETE TRUST CAN NEVER BE THERE IN A POLYGAMOUS MARRIAGE, NEITHER THE HUSBAND NOR THE WIVES”.

    Reason:They give up on Romantic love when they engage in polygamy because Romantic love can never be just.
    Also atmost wives can trust you to be just and fair but can never trust you to love her only or love her more and give priority to her, so trust which is based on EXCLUSIVENESS can never be there since Loyalty to two people equals no loyalty….

    So I would like to know-
    a>In polygamy both wives would be showing you much love and care but it would never be genuine completely devoted love…
    Is it okay or fortunate for a man to have two wives who love him to a certain degree instead of one who loves you with every fiber of her heart??

    2> You can expect your wives to please you, show you love and support you with regard to her marriage, but cannot expect any of your wives to support you always and stand by your side in every sphere of life no matter what.
    So Is it desirable for a man to seek much more pleasure, excitement, emotional power and all that wives offer but at the cost of complete or blind trust??

    Here I am talking about the scenario when all parties involved are trying their best to make it work.But even then a man can have best of two wives but never a best friend and a complete partner with whom he can be truly himself, can pour his heart out completely without thinking at all with no regrets and feel complete.
    C> Does a man prefers having two wives instead of one person as his wife, Best friend, full time partner on whom he can rely upon truly??

    Does for men incredible excitement,fun and pleasure that physical relationship offers can overweigh emotional security, complete love, complete trust??

    Thank you

  • Aishah 2014

    February 7, 2014

    salaams.didn’t notice it didn’t say Aishah2014. that’s what I intended! reading along.

  • ana

    February 7, 2014

    Muhammad (Scot)

    I totally understand how your first wife did not care about certain things until you married another. It happened to me with my husband, as well. No one wants something or someone who no one else wants.

    About a relationship changing when the husband becomes polygamous, well, everything changes. Nothing remains the the same. For every action there is a reaction. We should always be in a state of change – hopefully for the better.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 7, 2014

    Spirited, wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    I agree with you that if a woman can’t get with polygamy due to ongoing problems that can’t be resolved, divorce is an option. I think any woman who finds herself in polygamy will have to go through a serious adjustment period, but if she is patient, persevere and pray she will be triumphant. She will prevail.

    About what Ahmed said that a man with one or more wives should help a poor male without a wife get one, Allah decided who our spouse’s are. He determines how many. He says he gives some people more than others. We get what Allah has allotted for us – no more and no less.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Gail

    February 7, 2014

    I hope everyone is doing well out there.I am dying to know how Fatima is doing with her pregnancy.I wish she would check in more often.

  • Spirited

    February 7, 2014

    Salaam everyone,

    My goodness, some of you gals can be pretty vicious sometimes laughing I never said I was crying about my situation, I was running my thoughts & current state of stuff by you for opinions, no need to get aggressive.

    Anyhow, thanks again for your support, Ummof4, Jenny, Ana, Laila, Gail, Maryam, Rasha, Lynnette, Ruqayya big grin. I liked the level-headedness some of you displayed, and the…passion that others displayed was also appreciated. Guess a heavy hand is required sometimes. Oh, I showed my husband one or two replies from here (took a screenshot, names blacked out/website address blacked out). There were a few other things I brought up, we shall see if there’s any change.

    In other news, I’m about 85% sure that I’ll be taking an almost-2 week trip to visit in Pak next month, (during the spring break so I don’t miss any class time) and be back before our 7th wedding anniversary. Husband said he will pay for my round-trip ticket if I want to go (he won’t be able to make the trip–won’t have time off until the summer, but that’s a terrible time to be heading there, lol). I’m still considering the options on that. It would make sense to go for longer, since the trip is so mind numbingly long, but I might be busy with applications or, Insha’Allah, school later on (or too depressed to make the trip if I don’t get in anywhere laughing ).

    I’m also quietly curious as to what he’ll be doing for our anniversary, that we almost didn’t make it to. lol my brain just went “there’s still a few weeks, maybe you won’t make it after all.” laughing laughing stay classy, self. His gestures have always been nice, more or less. I’ve got my stuff ready, even a great card that I ran across last year (yes I kept it the whole time for the wedding anniversary laughing but I almost ripped it up around August).

    @Ana, I think Aishah probably left it “2013″ out of habit — like how sometimes it takes a few tries to remember to change the year when writing dates when the new year starts laughing

    I just wanted to add that you’re quite right about what you said to new poster Ahmad (about women needing to turn to Allah), but it is also perfectly possible for a first wife to be treated badly by an unjust husband. If the source of her troubles is indeed her husband, you can’t just blame her own heart for his actions — in this sort of case, it may be a sign from Allah for her to leave the marriage. Just throwing that out there.

    @Country Girl, welcome! I like the name you’ve chosen, it’s cute! I think you’ve gotten some good points to consider from the other ladies already. Not much more that inexperienced ‘ole me could add. I just wanted to welcome you while the doing was good. I hope you stick around big grin

    Well, I’m gonna turn in. I was almost all better until I went to class yesterday. The stupid lab room was so drafty, even with my coat on, I’ve ended up feeling down in the dumps again today. Insha’Allah, this will clear up by tomorrow. I still have a lab report to do & chapters to read sad Goodnight everyone, I hope no one else gets sick. Prayers & lots of love to the blog family~

  • Gail

    February 7, 2014

    Muhammad Scott,
    I wish I was not so negative when it comes to Pakistani men and the culture but I actually can’t help it at this point.You might want to check in with your Pakistani male friends so u can get Idea of what is going on out there in the fact that Pakistani males are using foreign woman for greencards.Also I don’t mean to be rude at all but I find it very hard and sitting here scratching my head how u can defend men that are obviously doing this sort of thing unless u condone it yourself which hopefully u do not.
    As far as your wives wanting to divorce you all the time I don’t know what to say other than u should really consider why that is.Alot of times as humans we see ourselves very different than others see us.
    It really does in my opinion take a really awesome man to be able to not only practice polygamy but to thrive in this type of marriage.It is very difficult and I notice alot of times men try to bully their wives and this is a major problem because woman resent being bullied.When u mentioned u would take a third wife that is a type of bullying I feel and thats so not Kool.The logical thing to do is listen to your wives issues and come up with solutions to the problems.This way it shows u care and want to come up with workable solutions.
    I do not think u are a bad person at all but rather u need to think of solutions because after all u decided to practice polygamy and take 2 wives.
    A third wife should not even be an option for u at this time in your life because your 2 wives are having issues with you.That would be like added fuel to the fire.Nope not a good idea.
    Enjoy what u have don’t get greedy less u end up alone is my advice.

  • Muhammad (Scot)

    February 7, 2014

    @Ana wa alykum salam and all other sisters and brothers

    I fully agree with you best not to discuss Quran 4:34 here especially beating part.

    Thank you so much for your response to Ahmad. I could not have said any better.

    I would like to add following two verses.

    4:3 is one that most women quote to remind husband must do justice. However Allah(SWT) is talking about doing justice with Orphan girls if one marry one. In second verse 4:129 Allah(SWT) is saying man will never be able to do justice between wives, that is emotional justice. In my view financial justice should be exercised. Muslim must believe that there is not doubt or contradiction in Quran as per verse 2:2

    I would recommend brother and sister to read and fully understand Surah Nisah ( 4) in entirety if one want to understand marriage and polygamy.

    Quran 4:3 >> And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan-girls, then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or (the captives and the slaves) that your right hands possess. That is nearer to prevent you from doing injustice.

    Quran 4:129 >> And you will never be able to be equal [in feeling] between wives, even if you should strive [to do so]. So do not incline completely [toward one] and leave another hanging. And if you amend [your affairs] and fear Allah – then indeed, Allah is ever Forgiving and Merciful.

    Quran 2:2 >> This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah

    @ Ahmad Salam to you brother, you mentioned, if one has resources should help single men to get married instead of getting second wife. First marriage should not be about money. Secondly it is very possible to find wife even if one not has money. We have very good example here Sister Spirited’s husband has the cake and eating it (Sorry Sister to use you as an example). He is fully paid for ( ie Free flat, free cloths, free watches, free gifts, free university education and much more, as well full respect of parent in laws) all paid for by parent in laws as well his second wife with a child too. You can’t get any better deal on the planet so one not needs money to get wife. One only needs to be a Pakisani. lol, they must know to charm American women. I have been unsuccessful to charm any white British women, only joking, not even tried.

    @ Spirited I am truly sorry to joke about your situation, truly I have no intention to disrespect you, your husband or your family. On a serious note you do need to listen to the advice from other sisters her. Gail has made her full time job to warn the world about Pakistani men and I am surprised you did not get her warning and still bought sweet dreams from your husband. I pray for you that the dreams he sold you do come true (ameen). Listen to your inner feelings and keep asking guidance from Allah (SWT).

    @All, I think few of you asked what my wives are nagging about. Mostly about time which #1 never cared about before #2 came along. I had the same routine to work Monday- Friday away from home, I was home only Friday night to Monday morning. Even #1 rarely wanted to go out with me than, I am kind of outdoor person. She like staying home keeping her busy in home. Even now when I am home I had to drag her to go for walk with me, she would not sit watch TV with me. But even an emergency call from #2 could trigger her off. I must say she never call me when I am with #2. She only calls me when I am at work. I guess she expects same but I had to attend to emergency calls. #2 never calls without emergency.

    The other is about Eids, bank holidays and vacation both expect 100% 50/50 share and some cases #1 expects more because I spend more time with #2 due to my work. Monday-Friday. The #2 thinks she is short changed because I spend weekend with #1.
    For me it is impossible to please them both from that point of view.

    I said to them I will do what I think is best and just and they have to accept it. However in the end both are not happy. There is no perfect solution.

    @Jenny and other who second her advice and view. I am fully aware of loss of our baby. I am careful, passionate, and sensitive toward her from that point of view. That is another reason I decided to went for Hajj with her to recover from that loss and pain. She proudly talk about our experience to other people for example Ana knows how difficult I can be for women to kiss Hajir Aswad during Hajj time. She managed to do it twice with help from Allah (SWT) and me. She is thankful to me for that effort and it is an effort to get there. Many other placed we visited in Makkah and Madina which most people do not even know. I did my home work and gather information to find such places.

    All I can do is keep trying and keep praying..

  • Gail

    February 7, 2014

    Laila,
    I really liked your post.I think it is very wise of u to focus on your business.I started exercising and loosing weight and focusing on my business and I feel wonderful.I will admit I have issues with my husband and his family and my excowife that are not easy for me at all but I am taking it one day at a time.I am happy to hear u are getting your pound of flesh.

  • ana

    February 7, 2014

    I meant to say we can address the ayah, but not that particular part of the ayah.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 7, 2014

    I’d suggest no one address whether or not a man should beat his wife lightly or not and what it means. It’s too controversial and will only open the door for those who dislike Islam to bash it. Next thing you know, you’ll be quoted somewhere else online. Someone will take what you said, twist it, turn it and run with it and it won’t be pretty. It’s just a word of caution. Deal with the ayah personally or else where, but not here, PLEAZZZZZZZZ

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 7, 2014

    @Country Girl, As Salaamu Alaikum,

    Welcome to our home. happy Lynnette and Muhammad (Scot) gave you very, very good advice. I second what the two of them said.

    Country Girl, I especially would ignore the 3rd. It’s something I had to learn to do with regard to my husband’s other. I used to pester her. She used to ignore me. I thought she had it going on. I then learned it was a show and game on her part. When I began to ignore her the way she had ignored me, she began to pester me. I was working on getting my heart right, so Allah swt would be pleased with me, but she was working on jerking me around and trying to look good in my husband’s eyes.

    Try to ignore 3rd as best you can, seeking the good pleasure of Allah. Allah tells us to ignore ignorance. I struggled for a very long time in trying to leave my husband’s other alone. I dislike how she latched onto my husband and disregarded me. I sincerely wanted to leave her alone, and be pleasing to Allah. I knew I was doing wrong and Allah swt was displeased with me. Allah swt does not like wrongdoers and I was wrong in my actions.

    I think experiences are different depending on the sequence in which we marry our husbands. You being married second is a different experience from being married first. Now that your husband has married a third, you get to experience what a wife who marries first goes through. It’s not a picnic or bed of roses. It’s no walk in the park.

    I agree with brother Muhammad (Scot) that the novelty of the 3rd will wear off in time and your husband will begin to see her as she really is. You must be patient as Muhammad said, but more importantly Allah swt says it. He tells us to exercise patience in all that betides us.

    As Lynette said, you have to turn your face to Allah. You have to turn all your attention to Him. He rewards those who do good and turn to Him. He does not reward evil or wrongdoing with good. Those who do wrong, get their due. Allah swt is a Just God.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 7, 2014

    @Muhammad (Scot), As Salaamu Alaikum,

    If you and I are thinking of the same saying from a Hadith – A woman is like a branch and if you try to straighten her, she will break – it goes something like it – my take on it is that a husband shouldn’t try to make a wife into what he wants her to be. It just won’t work; it would cause a good deal of disharmony between the husband and wife, and it could ruin the marriage. For example, a man may want his wife to be a little Susie homemaker, but maybe she’s not good at it. He wants the house cleaned a certain way. He wants his food cooked a certain way. Maybe she doesn’t cook as well as he likes. He may want her to look more feminine and less like a tomboy. She is who she is. She is what Allah swt has made her. A man should try to accept the way Allah has made her. Allah swt say everyone acts according to their own disposition. A man cannot remake a wife, nor can a wife remake a husband.

    I think the ayah from the Quran addresses the above when Allah swt says it could be that we dislike a thing that is good for us and like a thing that is bad for us. A husband may dislike something in his wife, but there is something else in her that brings about a lot of good.

    I apologize if I misunderstood anything you said. My examples may not be that good, as well. I don’t do well in giving examples and analogies.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 7, 2014

    @Ahmad,

    Welcome to polgyamy 411 and thank you for commenting. I know you directed your comment to Muhammad (scot), but I’d like to chime in. I’m a first wife and my heart is not broken. You said a first wife’s heart would be broken for life. It’s an inaccurate statement. If a first wife’s heart is broken indefinitely she has a problem with her Creator (Allah who is God). If one worships and serve Allah as He orders us in the Holy Quran, there is relief after hardship. Allah swt says with hardship there comes relief. He tells us that if we serve and worship Him, He will dispose of our affairs towards comfort and ease. If the wife is not getting any relief, no comfort and no ease, the problem is within her, not the husband. Allah swt says He guides those who seek his guidance. Perhaps the wife hasn’t sought Allah’s guidance, help and protection. The husband is not responsible for what is in the wife’s heart.

    About treating the wives equally, Allah swt says don’t turn away from one wife all together so as to leave her hanging. She shouldn’t feel abandoned or feels she does not have a husband.

    I think you are Muslim, but you write as though you are not. You dislike what Allah has permitted – Polygamy? Are you saying Allah swt didn’t know what He was doing when he permitted polygamy? The Quran, Allah’s final Book, is for all mankind and all times. Allah permits a man to have up to four wives. It was for when the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was alive and it is for everyone till this day. Allah swt also says don’t make unlawful that which He has made lawful. Sounds as though you want polygamy to be unlawful.

    Furthermore, Allah swt never said a husband needs the first wife’s permission to take another. He tells us that we should conduct ALL our affairs with mutual consultation. Yes, he should discuss what he plans to do – take another wife – as it will affect her, but he does not need her okay to marry another.

    Why should a Muslim brother give up his right to have another wife and give his earnings to the underprivileged? There are women who need husbands and there are men who want to exercise a privilege that Allah has given him. You’re mixing apples with oranges. Giving to the needy could be giving to a wife who is in need of a husband.

    Sound you have a beef with the wrong ones. You beef is with what Allah swt has permitted for men. Why make men feel badly about what Allah swt says they can do?

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 7, 2014

    @Aishah, As Salaamu Alaikum,

    I thought you were going to become Aishah2014. i dont know You’re still Aishah 2013. No problemah, whatever works for you.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 7, 2014

    @Muhammad (scot) As Salaamu Alaikum!

    Thank you much for adding to your name so we don’t confuse you with the other Mohammad. I appreciate it much! happy

    I thought there was a way to prevent people from duplicating names, but from what I can gather the only way to do it would to have everyone register to comment. I think it would be an inconvenience for the writers.

    The comment about people using multiple names in no way applied to you. I want everyone to be clear about it. There is no problem in one changing his or her name, but alert us that you are one and the same person.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 7, 2014

    Please note:

    There have been some individuals who comment here under more than one name. I kindly ask everyone to refrain from doing so. It’s okay to let us know that you commented under a different name before. It is not okay to mislead people to think that there are multiple people commenting when you are one and the same person.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ahmad

    February 7, 2014

    I admit that i too would love to marry a 2nd, 3rd and maybe 4th wife and be able to use my right to sleep with four women. I think this right is given to us as a test (for our ability to do righteous deeds). Its sad that we often fail these tests. I am determined to not give in to my weaknesses but be able to do what is just and right.

  • Lynnette

    February 7, 2014

    Salaams again to you all

    @Country Girl,

    In Shaa Allah, my reply finds you in good health, and in reasonably good spirits.

    Welcome to the blog! We’re happy to have you.

    Oh, Sister…Men can be among Allah’s (swt) most difficult creations winking.

    I am so sorry that she hurt you. They may only be words, but they can and do hurt.

    While your husband may appear to be preoccupied with his newest “toy” ::a pun was intended based on Barbie’s Size 4 physique:: I doubt sincerely that he wishes you to leave or go anywhere else.

    The first piece of advice is the best one — and it isn’t mine alone. Turn your face to Allah (swt), and make sure that HE is First in all things. It is Allah (swt), and Allah (swt) alone whom we worship. Unburden your soul at Salat, and make du’a often for peace.

    The second piece of advice: don’t keep it to yourself. Tell your husband — calmly, of course — what his #3 wife has said to you and done. Tell him that you don’t appreciate such calls from her, and insist that he make it stop; he is the man here — and he can make it stop. In fact, insist on respect in all things, including your scheduling, your treatment, and in your home.

    And then, third piece of advice: if your health allows it, join the gym and work on you for you. If your money allows it, get your hair done, your skin cared for, your hands and feet done — you get my drift. And stay prim and pretty. There is a beauty in YOU that moved your husband to marry you; care for yourself. The pain of an emotional trauma can show in your health and in your appearance. Care for yourself; preserve your physical being. ::added benefit — makes husband watch you more::

    This #3 of your husband’s sounds like a real DOLL, and that isn’t intended to be flattering to her.

    The other ladies here will have a lot of help for you; listen to their wise words, and implement the suggestions that you know to be good ones.

    We are here to support and encourage you as you strive toward Jannah.

  • Muhammad (Scot)

    February 7, 2014

    @Country Girl
    I am not sure if this is your first post or you have been here before. Welcome.

    If you do love you husband and wish to remain in this marriage. Also you do not want to give the #3 the pleasure of create distance between you and your husband. I would have done following.
    -Simply be patience (Allah (SWT) is with patient one)
    -Stop speaking to #3; It is not point speaking to one who has no respect for Islamic teachings. She can’t be worst than Ana’s co co. So follow Ana
    - If your husband does not show interest in you; let it be do not show desperation. The new love/intimacy will be short lived with #3.

    I am talking from my own experience; husband will naturally turn to wife who is more patient with situation.

    If your husband has become changed man with new outlook and desires and influenced by #3, Allah (SWT) will guide you. Do not demand divorce or initiate separation requests. If he is turning away from Islam; than for you it is time to turn to Allah (SWT) and use this opportunity to get close to Allah (SWT); you will be amazed how things started to get better.

    @All;

    I am feeling little better, #1 is little less angry this weekend. I pray weekend pass trouble free.

    The below verse is controversial due to word “beat them (lightly)”, I would like all to share their understanding here please. Someone mentioned a hadith about women being created from man’s rib (Eve from Adam), that one should not try hard to push her one direction. Perhaps Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was explaining this verse when this hadith was heard from him.

    Quran 4:34 >> Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

  • Ahmad

    February 7, 2014

    Muhammad, I think you should share your experience as a main thread and enlighten our brothers that there is actually no way to treat more than one woman equally. Your first wife will be left with a life long broken heart when you take more wives. She may eventually compromise but it won’t be ever same. You said your wives have everything from nice houses, cars, credit cards and you provide for them equally. The truth is that most important to them is your time and attention, thats what you cannot give to your first wife ever like you did before. Muslim brothers need to understand this. Bringing a 3rd wife is only going to decrease that time further and make them more unhappy and bitter. I wish our brothers could understand how unjust it is when they marry a second wife without the permission of first wife. I wish the muslim brothers were able to think beyond their ego and self. If you have resources to support two households why not help underprivileged muslim families and help single poor Muslim brothers get married and start families.

  • Country Girl

    February 7, 2014

    As Salaamu Alaikum,

    Reading these blogs and posts has helped me so much. I am in a unique situation. But thrown into something I really didn’t like, want, or feel comfortable with. I am #2, #1 is not here and can’t come, # 3 just popped up from nowhere and thinks she can take hubby for herself. I don’t like her attitude at all. Sharing your man is one thing, but trying to pull him away from others is wrong, especially if you are the new one. Which I never did. I never even mentioned # 1, or asked stupid questions like “who do you love more?” I think that’s wrong. But He must be feeding her 29 year size 4 ego….Blank smile. My biggest concerns are of her wanting to boot me out. I think she is patiently hoping I will leave or she will damage my relation so bad that we will separate. But oh is she so sly and smooth with it. I have been here with my hubby for 3 years living peacefully. He owns a store and she was a customer.(pissed me off) I found out from her that she was talking on the phone with him for a year and half/ half my marriage. I have so much to say but could in this little space. I love Islam, I respect Allah’s wisdom but I think men misuse it to fulfill wordly desires and don’t think of women as human beings with feelings. Just live spread your legs and shut up. and it hurts so much. My husband was very friendly with me before this seductress came along. Now we have been walking on egg shells for 8 months. I don’t care about her being there anymore, I just want the person I knew before back and I don’t know if will ever happen. It is also unsettling to know there is a woman waiting for me to break and go. SHe called me one day and told me she could take my husband from me in 5 mins, to stop crying, and that she is the only woman he loves…and he is the one chasing her… I told her ” what kind of Muslim are you?” And if you walking around with tight clothes and perfume looking for others womens husband you belong on the street. sorry… but WHat she said hurt and there had to be something from the man to make her so arrogant. Polygamy is not the problem… evil, immature, arrogant people are the problem, and men who don’t know how to be just and smart.

  • ana

    February 6, 2014

    Rasha, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    Yes, the blog was a mess for a good while. But it’s finally back up and running . I thank Allah much! I’m on my phone and you know how I feel about it. Inshallah, I’ll be back on the computer soon. I pray all is good with you and your hubs.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Laila

    February 6, 2014

    Dear Lynette, hope you feel better. My business is good, but I know it can pick up. That’s why the question to Jenny. My fliers or brochures are being circulated tomorrow. 5000 copies all together. It will be inserted into the mainstream newspapers. Let’s wait and see! 😊

    Dear Rasha, I didn’t plan to deliver a sermon per say, but I just want to ‘share’. There are times Im long and so full of details, and at times, it’s short and sweet. Good to have you back with us. I just want everyone here who are with husbands that don’t step up [ including mine! ] that life doesn’t revolve around them. It’s also so important to have a bit of love / respect / trust. What do you think?

    Salam.

  • Rasha

    February 6, 2014

    As salaamu alaikum to alllll
    I don’t know why happened the new feed started and I didn’t receive any updates.

    I don’t know what’s going on with anyone sad

    Did the scroll to the bottom thing get fixed? That was so challenging and time consuming

  • maryam

    February 6, 2014

    Also Muhammed Scot,

    3 years may seem fast to you as you sound busy at work so that helps time fly.

    Your wives are at home all day, so its easier for their thoughts to run wild so maybe time has moved much slower for them.

  • maryam

    February 6, 2014

    Wow, Laila, what a sermon! You sound happy and full of energy and strength. Alhamdulilah for you!

    This blog is a blessing Ana, not just regarding polygamy, but marriage in general. Ladies you have helped me realise alot of things. Thank you.

    Muhammed/Scot, its nice to see you providing for your wives. If you dont mind me asking what do they complain about? Is it time, because you work alot. Maybe their families are nagging them, whispering to them?

    Do they have friends, a social group to interact with? If not it can be very isolating for women at home all day with children. It would put more pressure on your marriage if they have no other interests. Because they become reliant on you alone for company, friendship, fun.

    Please listen to what the sisters said about miscarriage, maybe your first wife is still grieving and you’ve been so busy with work and two families you havent shared that grief with her.

  • Lynnette

    February 6, 2014

    As Salaamu Alaikum, and peace to all….

    @Sister Ummof4,

    Thank you, Dear Sister, for the correction. When I mess up, I really mess up. (The most debilitating thing about having Fibromyalgia is the cognitive fog. When it sets in, there is not much I can do.) I thank you for the kindness and patience that you show to all of us here.

    @Brother Muhammad (Sean),

    I am probably the most a-typical sister you will meet at this point — I sincerely do not wish to be anyone’s full-time wife. I know how much work is involved, and unless Allah (swt) wills it, I doubt I will be married again. I find it too difficult to keep my own head above water to be held responsible for a full-time marriage.

    Brother, however I may butcher your name, please forgive me. It is not intentional. Just as it is not my intent to give you offense; I wish to give you an alternate framework upon which you may frame your thoughts.

    The wife you have who lost her baby — though it was the WILL of Allah(swt), I assure you that it feels to her like her punishment, or her judgment. I actually cry for her as I type this. Allah’s plans are perfect, but my simple human self…sometimes, I just cannot grasp that He Blesses me in the things that I consider to be anything but a blessing. Her co-wife may also be a blessing to her, but I can assure you that it isn’t feeling that way right now.

    I am sure you have exercised patience. Please continue to do so. If Allah (swt) wills you a third wife, it appears that you can more than afford one. Alhamdulillah for that. It is excellent that you support your family, and that your wives are not treated disparately.

    Perhaps it would be appropriate to remind your wives — gently, of course — that they are not in this world without your protection or your love. Believe me when I tell you, it is entirely possible to be married, and to be without the protection of your husband. But in turn, I remind you — gently — that protection must be demonstrated, and not just spoken.

    I urge you to continue to exercise patience, and to try to make your home — wherever you happen to be at any particular moment — peaceful.

    @Sister Spirited,

    I do not feel that it is right or proper for me to assault your husband verbally. I have made it clear to you on previous occasions that I do not really trust his words. His actions don’t line up with his words. He derives tremendous benefit from being your husband; what benefits do you derive from being his wife?

    I don’t place much trust in words, other than those of Allah (swt). I don’t trust one-off actions, either. But I trust and rely on patterns. What patterns are there in your life, and in your marriage? What patterns would you like to change for yourself?

    In Shaa Allah, you will be successful in your studies.

    @Sister Gail,

    It takes courage to accept the things that we can’t change Perhaps it is not written that your ex-cowife’s position is to change because of your actions. I admire you for being courageous and advocating for her well-being, and for being concerned about the marriage of her sister(?). Girl, I am doing my best over here to keep your family relations straight.

    In the meantime, you do the things that you need to do to keep your family straight — the ones who are here, who are small, and who need your protection, okay?

    @Sister Jenny,

    Virtuous women are worthy to be praised; you, my dear Sister, embody that kind of virtue. Muslimah or Jewess, I don’t care. We are all daughters of the King. I hope that your family is well, and that you may continue to be an instrument of God’s will in the lives of all those who depend on you. You are proven more precious than the jewels your husband gifts you, because in you, he has no lack of gain.

    @Sister Laila,

    How is school enrollment? In Shaa Allah, everything is proceeding according to plan.

  • Laila

    February 6, 2014

    Dear Ummof4 and Gail, I think I was the type of woman that sort of wanted to ‘please’ everyone. Ive been married a long time and since the time the news was sort of delivered to her…. Hell has been part of my life. I devoted my time to him, her and all our unhappiness and snitching and back biting. Just of recent, I had a small tiff and hubbs said that if it’s not working, we better re-think matters. It wasn’t even like a full blown argument or anything of the sort. Guess what? A light bulp went off in my head….

    I don’t know, but something SURELY did happen or take place within me. That’s when I snapped! No ladies, I didn’t yell, shout or threatenen like a beast. I just went into a corner and put in lots of thoughts into my life. After going through my injury Allah s.w.t. showed me a lot. My mum didn’t or wasnt there for me. I just wanted my mummy to be around. Not really to cook or clean but to love me and to show her support. My husband, due to our schedule couldn’t be around all the time. Now… he was saying that after all this time [ miscarriages / time / youth / effort ] that we can RE-THINK stuff? wow….. I just called him at work and told hime in a calm manner that we need to see a lawyer, and move on. I REALLY at that point decide that he, my mum, and all my relatives that aren’t positive / supportive don’t have to be part of my life. I am already used to living a solitary life and I like it. I used to be the type that needed friend’s to validate my feelings and positions. Now, not so. I do however value my friendship with my neighbour from another floor. She’s older and full of religious and worldly advise and loving. So yes ladies, I told him he can even have the house, but I will handle the cars and Im ready to leave; FOR GOOD AND NO TURNING BACK.

    Guess what, he made a 360 degree turn. He admitted that my co-wife was being a b**** and that he’s trying to handle matters. By the way, he’s been trying to handle matters for a long long time and somehow, Im not sold into his trying. He’s apologized and all. Ive accepted him back. Many would think Im weak to do it. Guess what, my husband is a weakling… He’s the one who can’t live without me. Im just now not taking unwanted c***. I am demanding respect and my rights. [ Tq Jenny! ]

    I no longer call or text. He’s finds that hard to take. I don’t blow off my handle when he clearly screws up. I don’t allow my co-wife to get to me. Yes, I do vent it here. But in short, I don’t really need my husband on any level in my life. He made that clear to me after 13 years when he said that we need to re-think matters. Now I know he feels like s***. For me, when a man decides that you’re not his number one priority, he will show it. I guess im not, as we do not have kids as yet. Im grateful that he’s shown his true colours when im at this stage. Just like Ruqqya said, we don’t want to be 50 when we see what we don’t expect to see. Better to see the devil now than later happy

    Nowdays I’ve even told him that cancelling work appointments to be home early will stop. Reasons? Because I need to be the pilot on deciding my finance when I retire. He and my co-wife are all well taken care off. Im not at that stage as yet. He just went silent. To drive my point, Ive even not been at home when he is. I mean business this time.

    ALhamdulilah my business is doing well. But it can get better. I don’t hate my husband or anything. I don’t dispise him, it’s just that, I know how he looks at things. Men ARE really clear cut creatures. High time women do so too. Im not disrespecting hubbs, but change is in the winds for me. Positive change.

    Dear Spirited, I know how you run your show. Im a Punjabi and therefore our culture is very much similar. Both our cultures are male dominated. Before getting married, I couldn’t go anywhere without my brothers tagging along. Or my mum or sister…. Or worse care, brother in law. You don’t need to be rude / arrogant. You just need to understand that you need to love yourself MORE. The MORE you value yourself, the MORE your husband will see / realize / regret his stupidity. I know that now that my business is very much my top priority, somehow, Mr hubbs is a bit uncomfortable, wonder why?…. I think women generally and genuinely want the best in everything. Marriage / family / relatives. More often than not, we give ourselves more and don’t really get back much. In my case, years of giving myself. Then one fine day, you just snap! Men will say ANYTHING really at times. Like for example, he tells me that he doesn’t do it / did it for years with co. Not that I mind. But hey!?… really? You think Im that DAFT. Look here Spirited, this life is yours alone. Don’t wait 13 years to be told off. Im lucky, I met him young.

    I love my hubbs, but he’s not my top priority now. I just knew something will change drastically in me when I watched the fireworks In Bangkok on the cruise ship. Something told me that the years of turmoil has to end. Happiness and prosperity will come in now. My time of crying and being frustrated has ended. Time to time, I do vent it here. But I DEMAND MY POUND OF FLESH LADIES. happy

    Salam.

  • Jenny

    February 6, 2014

    @ Laila,

    You asked a very good question, and yes, I have a very strong motivating force and I’ll share it with you.

    My husband put all of his trust in me when we married. Not some of his trust ~ all of it. I have no doubt that I am the most important person in the world to him. When we married, he gave me all the stocks, titles, whatever we had ~ which wasn’t much, but he gave it to me none the less.

    Looking back now, although it was risky, it was very smart of him. It made me intensely loyal to him, not that I wouldn’t have been anyway.

    Just had to tell you that before I tell you what my driving force is. Now here is your answer. After we got married, the drivers used to sit in our office (and they would say this in English so I could hear it and understand) and make bets when we would go out of business and make jokes about how stupid my husband was. It was sheer hate of these people that drove me to build and build on what my husband started. No one laughs anymore.

    These same people, about 150 of them, took my husband out the night before and tried to pressure him into not marrying me. My husband didn’t tell me that until much later. I showed their a$$es.

    My husband isn’t bright at all when it comes to paperwork and business, but he is a very good negotiator and the best when it comes to dealing with people. If someone asked my husband to make some kind of decision, he’ll tell them to wait a second, he has to ask his “brain.” laughing He tells everyone that I am his brain and his everything. He’s my heart and my everything too.

    Now all these bastards that made fun of him now have to kiss his a$$ and I love it! laughing

    The short answer, my motivation is my husband. happy

  • Muhammad (Scot)

    February 6, 2014

    Salam to you All,

    To keep it easy I am going call my self Muhammad (Scot) from now on.

    Thanks you all so much for your valued feedback; interesting views.

    As I said I know what response I am going to get, so none was unexpected; lol.

    I said I promised myself to be patient, patient and patient……
    I also said I do not want to go this route.

    I think some of you have missed that I have wife#2 over 3 years now with one daughter.

    Things should get better and settle down in 3 years. One of the reasons we went for Hajj was to learn to forgive and forget and become new better person.

    I think I have improved since my return and both wives and other people have notice change in me. Wife#1 has improved in term of her personal prayers, dawn prayer regularly etc. But I feel I am still an evil man in her book.

    Some one said here one or both may ask for divorce if I try to get third wife, well if Muslim wife were allowed to divorce, than I would get divorce every week; lol. Every time some issue arise, the demand and threat is divorce me, do not come home next week, leave us alone, send me to my home country (This last one from wife#2).

    This is all regular demands and threats, if it was not my patience wife#1 definitely and wife#2 most likely will be divorce by now. Alhumdolillah it has not happened and I see the wisdom why Islam has not allowed wife to divorce husband with three simple words.

    Away I will continue to be patient and pray Allah (SWT) help me in this struggle.

    Some of you may not know. Both of my wives are house wives, never worked, both lives in good separate homes, 400 miles apart. Both have good cars, all bills every thing paid for. All they do look after kids. I am happy with that this is our mutually agreed arrangement and we believe no one can look after and educate kids better than mothers. They do not time to work and look after kids same time. So that is fine but, they should appreciate we are financially secure and very comfortable. We have not debt to pay to any one other than regular home loan.

    I am professional IT manager, not taxi driver, work mostly 6 days, do not have any bad habits, do not smoke or hang out with friends. I go to work 8am and back home 7pm. Never spend night or evening outside home without family. I expect wives should appreciate this.

    Pakistani culture and men bashing topic
    ===========================
    I have read and it is regular topic here lol; All I would say and I think said it before; I am living example to the contrary to all what has been said here.
    I was born and raised and educated in Pakistan. Migrated to UK at age of 22, had my university degree from Glasgow, my dad was British and mum Pakistani so I was born British. My wife#1 is my cousin and British. We were not forced or arrange into marriage. It was arranged love marriage and we have been together 19 years. My wife#2 is Arab. So I am not married to any white western woman for visa or money. However my next wife may be extremely rich white western woman as my retirement insurance; who knows lol. Basically I do not fit in to any of the moulds discussed here.

    I do not live amongst Asian or Pakistani community; I go to Masjid without getting involved in inner working. My work colleagues are all non Muslim non Pakistani.

    I love Pakistan and have huge respect for the country of my birth. We admit or not we all follow a version of Islam, I have seen and experienced closely Middle Eater version, Western Version and Pakistani/ India/ Bengali version. For me Pakistani version works and guide me to way of LOVE for Allah (SWT) and Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

    Have a wonderful day you all.

  • ummof4

    February 6, 2014

    As-salaamu Alaikum and hello to all,

    Laila, your response to Spirited was awesome! It often means a lot more to people when they receive advice from someone who has had similar experiences. Those of us who have never let a man take advantage of us or who have type A personalities often come on very strong and we can’t relate to women who don’t stand up for themselves. I know, I can’t relate as well as someone who has reformed herself. It takes courage to change and love yourself more than you love others if that is what you are used to doing all your life. We have seen on this blog that for a number of sisters who were not getting what they had a right to receive, that when they demanded their rights from their husband and stood their ground, the husbands did finally give them their rights.

    Ashes, I advise you to listen to Gail and take to heart what she is saying. It may sound crude at times, but it is the truth. Can you handle the truth? I pray that you are guided to do what is best for your life.

    Gail, and all the rest of the “girl gang”, keep on giving up the sound advice. I love this blog because even though we are all different, we are also similar. We are all women who wan the best for ourselves and others.

    One final note, for those of you who have children or may have children on day. Remember, they take notes of everything that you say and do. Their mother is a primary role model for sons and daughters. Daughters learn how to be a woman from their mother. Sons learn how to treat a woman from their mother.

    Kim, are you okay? How is the move going? Wish you the best.

    Rasha, if you are still around how are you faring these days?

    May Allah accept all of our deeds that we do for Him.

  • Gail

    February 6, 2014

    Ana,
    I admit to do what I did and go to Pakistan and marry my husband was crazy no doubt.To this day I don’t know what made me do it.I just think looking back he sold me a dream and I bought into it.

  • Gail

    February 6, 2014

    Laila,
    You could not have said it any better to Spirited.That was awesome.

    Spirited,
    Please for your own sake listen to Laila and search youtube and listen to self help.It really is all about loving yourself.It really is important in making u a well rounded person.I also have been wondering like Laila if u simply believe everything he tells u even though his actions are complete opposite of what he is saying.Have u ever thought he could be using u to get through college because he is getting a free place to stay and he does not have to support you or pay your bills.Really I am like DANG WOW and to top it all off he refuses to pay your copay for a doctor visit.You make my husband look like a saint.lol

  • Gail

    February 6, 2014

    Ashes,
    You said everything pretty much correct but it goes much deeper than just simply slapping a band aid on the problem.You mentioned that you are marrying for love but are u aware that in the Pakistani culture as a general rule they do not marry for love.They marry in the family normally and they do that to keep the properties and money in the family.I will say this that I have noticed that Pakistani men are very sexually attracted to white western woman.It is a sexual lust thing and a trophy wife.Now I am not saying every Pakistani man is this way but everyone I have ran into has been this way and my husband has told me himself that this is just the way it is.Jenny has had great luck with her husband but she is the exception not the rule.I don’t want to scare u off or open up a can of dirty worms for u I just want to say to u basically buyer be aware.lol
    Are u so certain that u will be ok in the future with your husband giving money to your inlaws knowing they are well enough off financially when u have children to raise.It is not cheap to raise kids and they need alot of things.I am just saying it might not sit well with u in the future.I will be honest if your husband was to die I doubt u would get anything in Pakistan to be honest.That country is so dishonest and your inlaws will see everything as theirs not yours understand.Just don’t let anyone try to a snow job on u.

  • Gail

    February 6, 2014

    Maryam,

    It is a form of discrimination against western woman in my opinion.My excowife mother actually talked very very bad about me in public about me.Saying things like American woman are lazy and not good etc… she did this alot and laughed around me in Punjabi and told people that old she don’t know that her husband is going to divorce her etc…When I found out all this I was disgusted at my husband more than her because he just allowed it to happen.It is the just nasty in my opinion.

  • Laila

    February 6, 2014

    Dear Jenny, Ive always wanted to ask you this. Whats your driving force to your success? Please do update. Tqvm

  • Laila

    February 5, 2014

    Dear Ana, Lynette, thank you for reminding me that as a Muslim, there WILL BE trials and tribulations. Ive pretty much cooled down, but, Ive decided to keep my distance. Time will heal my mother and maybe make her realize her actions towards me.

    Felicia, I totally get about what you’re saying! I always wondered where my co-wife was getting apt information and recently discovered that my sister in-law is quite a gossiper…. This is one woman who will preach about Allah,talk about the importance of carrying out ones prayer on time, fasting, zakat….etc. I don’t expect a person who is pious to be an angel, but then again, I also expect her to clean up her act and act or behave like a wise one. She’s after all the oldest in the family now. Ive decided that, I don’t want to visit anyone anymore unless it consists of important functions. Ive even stopped calling me relatives or do favours for them. I look at it this way… The less contact I have with them, the less they know and can create chaos. Sometimes, women have no clue what chaos and madness they create onto another person’s life, like when they snitch and carry stories around.

    Dear Mohammad, seriously? Taking a third wife? ….. I am fully aware of a man’s right to marry up to four, but please stop creating excuses to actually want to remarry again. I’d rather you sit down and handle both your wives and create some sort of peace or situation where things are handled far better to even THINK about getting another wife. You may think I am saying such because I myself am a woman. No…. Im the type that goes for solutions that are logical and effective. Your idea isn’t a solution rather it’s opening the gates to hell. It may even backfire and cause one of your wives to ask for a divorce. Have you looked into all angles? Think wisely before deciding that getting another woman will be the best solution to an already difficult situation between two wives.

    Dear Spirited…. wow! The best part is you still tolerate it. Either you’re super patient or you’re probably clueless about how a man manipulates situations. You know very well that Im the second, but I don’t allow nonsence to run freely in my household. NOPE! Both of us get the same amount every mth. She gets extra due to the credit card, something which he hasn’t given but at the moment I don’t mind. I use his card when I purchase clothes from US stores online. hehehehe….. I know, Im such a devil! Okay, getting back to my talk / response to you is this, why are you allowing him to always take advntage of you? WHY? You’re already doing him a favour by staying at your parents home, and now he’s only giving you like about 100 bucks a month?…. I’d rather he keep that 100 bucks to himself. Ummof4 touched about her son in law paying back portions of his earnings to his father in law. She said that it’s about principles, how true! Even my hubbs tells me that all the time. Life is all about principles!

    This is how I decipher it in my brain.

    1. Staying at mums and daddys hse = FREE
    2. Gas / petrol = FREE
    3. Food = FREE
    4. Clothes / undies / = FREE
    *Any gifts to show that he loves you and to build up some spark between you both = NONE = FREE

    —————————————————-

    Now…. Im not saying that he’s got to leave his other woman and child. All Im saying is that you’re worth far more that you settle for. You just don’t see it or feel it now. You may look for all sorts of ayahs or words from our Quran, but what Ive typed abouve is a man’s duty. In my turf, if a man can’t settle any of the above, he’s got no rights having another woman in his life. Maybe you will still stick around which at the ned of the day I won’t say it’s right or wrong. but If I were YOU….. HE WILL PAY….. I used to be like you in the past. Now, I stand up for myself. I think Ive taken so much of Jennys advise on ‘demand respect’. It works wonders now. This June we are going for a holiday for his bday and our wedding anniversary, and Im paying for it all. Year end will be his tab. Go and surf for motivational videos on Youtube. Check out Tony Robbins especially and you will feel so empowered and good about yourself. He’s taking full advantage and you’re allowing it. By the looks of it, he’s very comfortable and will never change. Sorry but other than religious duties, a man must pay the bills. If he lives in my side of the world, he will be labelled as the ‘lazy bum of a hubbs’. Spirited, I don’t mean to hurt you. But Ive noticed that everyone here is appaled by some of the stuff that you allow to take place. We’ve been advising you over and over again but you always seem to have some sort of answer to back him up. Please live you life with meaning. This blog is supposed to help / motivate / nurture women in difficult situations. Talking and not implementing stuff in your life to me is a total waste of time. Time you read and implement, or else be happy in the mess that you’re in. My marriage was s***** but nowdays I take charge! Im the alpha dog on my side of the fence. I don’t cry and sulk. When hubbs is out of line I just ignore him. That makes him feel queasy because it shows him this, ‘With or without you, life still goes on’….. I love him but Ive started to love myself more. Love you dear, but you need to clean up the mess this man has created.

    Salam

  • Spirited

    February 5, 2014

    @Maryam, oops, just noticed your other question. I don’t really understand what my husband’s issue is with my parents — just a case of Pakistani male ego is the only thing that makes sense. Even his own parents don’t understand it.

    We don’t have children together (yet). We were going to wait until he was finished with his education so most things were in order — this was something he wanted and talked about when we got married (among the other things we discussed, most of which he broke his word on). But I’m not like that, if I say something, I go through with it. So, no, he can’t have any resentment about non-existent kids laughing

    If he does have some future plan for some kind of convoluted “revenge,” then let him try his worst. I told him this is his 2nd chance and he’s not going to get a 3rd chance with me. Insha’Allah, I have Allah for help and Insha’Allah, I’ll be in a med school and focused on the future through that path.

    But to be fair, my husband has been trying to be better. He’s recently asked me to install a recitation with translation of Quran on his phone so he can listen to it while driving. He is also doing more Salat than he used to. Those are at least some pretty significant positives. It’s only been about 5 months since this whole thing came to light, so let’s see how it goes. Some of the ladies here have been living this kind of life for years, they’re really strong and I look up to them. I hope I can get to their level one day! <3

    lol, oh man, my mom just went by and she said she was worried about me because she thinks I've made myself a boyfriend on the side laughing laughing laughing. I haven't told her about this blog. She said just because my husband had an affair, I shouldn't do the same thing just to get back at him because she doesn't want me to join him in the fire. Lol, I told her I'm not doing what she thinks I am, but I don't think she believes me, oh well laughing

    Ok, talk to you all later, I'm going to hit the 'ole bed. Goodnight everyone, love you all!

  • Ruqayya

    February 5, 2014

    As for me, I’m still dealing with trust issues.. I can’t find it within me to fully forgive my husband for lying to me to such a degree. I really don’t know how to get over it and begin a new path when I am scared to trust him again. I want to know who it was, because we frequent the same places and I feel uncomfortable knowing that she knows me but I don’t know her.
    The funny thing is that when he isn’t here I am so mad at him but when he is home we really enjoy our time. I feel like they are two different people, my old husband and my new husband. I love him dearly, but I can’t seem to put the past in the past. I know it’s only been about 3 months, and was a big thing that broke all my trust for him (lying and sneaking around was the one thing that I begged him not to do to me before we got married) I just hope it isn’t like this forever. I can’t imagine being 50 and still loving him but not fully trusting him.. :\

  • Ruqayya

    February 5, 2014

    Spirited it is completely up to you to decide what you need from him and what you can handle. Each of us has our own expectations and needs from our husbands.. and only you know the entirety of your marital situation so any advice we give you is skewed to our own perception and our own experiences. Sometimes it’s good to get another opinion but that persons opinion should only be followed once you yourself weigh the pros and cons of going ahead with that decision… after all there is no point following an opinion you know will not work and then being angry at the person who advised you that.. (I know you wouldn’t do it but some sisters are a little crazy like that tongue )

    If you’re happy to wait and see what happens when he finishes (how long has he got to go now?) then that is great I think, there would be no point in you demnading things he can’t do at this point in time and leaving him because he didn’t meet your expectations.

  • Spirited

    February 5, 2014

    Back again happy

    @Maryam, I only look to the future because there’s no point dwelling on the past. Its not like we can go back in time right? Lots of stuff could fall into place for me, or nothing will work out (the second route is usually the way my luck goes though). Insha’Allah, the school road will work out happy Gotta stay positive.

    Some people would say you should have expected the same from your husband from the beginning and its no good to change your expectations because you started living together. But personally, I think every relationship constantly evolves, so you might expect different things at different points in time (but basic things — like trust, should always be the same). That’s just my own view though, and as far as I can remember, there’s no hard & fast rule about this in Islam.

    Your other question, I think maybe my parents respected him TOO much laughing. Everyone warned them to be careful because other family members already had bad experiences with marrying Pakistanis and their marriages breaking up. Sometimes my parents would tell him “so-and-so said this-or-that, but we know you’ll show them you’re better than what they say.” Other than that, they treated him like their own child, told him to focus on his education, they’d handle any expenses, took him to tourist attractions, my dad especially bought him expensive watches, great suits, etc.

    Apparently it was too much respect for someone who didn’t deserve it so he turned around and … how to put it nicely… let’s say he turned around and pooped on them. Even after all that, they still treat him well when he’s here, but I know its only because of me. Otherwise I’m sure they’d just as soon throw him infront of a bus laughing. In any case, I tell my parents they should remember they had good intentions and Allah will reward them for it, Insha’Allah. My husband will get what he earned/deserves, so no worries, they should leave revenge to Him.

    Offtopic, has anyone read about that stupid evolution vs. creation debate that happened yesterday? You should see all the atheist & anti-religious garbage being spouted. Its worse than I thought sad

    And on a slightly more positive note, I read about how Harvard has a verse from Quran as an example of justice displayed at the entrance to one of its buildings. (but when you read the comments, its mostly religion bashing there too. /sigh ).
    if anyone is interested.

    Ok, back to my own stuff for the time being happy

  • ashes

    February 5, 2014

    @ Ana
    Thank you, I book marked the link and am taking a look.

    @Gail
    My boyfriend owns property in California and Pakistan. Yes, he does send money back to help his parents- they are well off even without him-the parents even have live-in maids to help them. My bf has a very high paying job and it seems he has enough to send money back home and, at the same time, live very comfortably here. *Shrug* I don’t see us having a lesser quality of life if we ever marry because he sends money back since there’s enough to go around (we don’t live together now -I have my own place & support myself).

    My boyfriend by far is the golden boy and far more successful than his younger brother. The younger brother isn’t married yet, but when he does I’m sure his wife will be favored since she’ll most likely be a girl from their own culture. That’s fine, let her be the favorite and hold that title. I’m just happy his family likes me. I hear real horror stories about Pakistani men keeping their girlfriends a big secret and then if they do tell, the family refuses to meet them and are very rude and instantly disapprove.

    The future wife of my bf’s younger brother has nothing to worry about. I’m sure she’ll be head of household since she will be closer geographically to the parents and may even possibly have some family blood in her. I find it weird that the money would go directly to her to distribute -one would think in this culture it would be the men that handle financial things. Regardless, even if it does, she is just the one appointed to distribute it to the family, as in things they need or investments for all of them, right? That’s fine, good for them. Or is there more I’m not getting?

    It may hurt my feelings a bit if the family has me sign some sort of pre-nup saying every and all asset belongs to my boyfriend-then husband and 100% of assets are left to only blood relatives in a will. I don’t believe I’m entitled to everything, but if we end up marrying and staying together for many manyyy years, then, yes, it would hurt my feelings if I’m not even entitled to one-fourth of anything. This is something worth bringing up. I don’t think it’d be a deal-breaker since I’m marrying for love instead of money and have my own career, but it’s something I want to know his views on vs being shocked 30 years later.

    If we got married, he wouldn’t make me pay for anything, he has a hang-up about women paying for things. So I’d be able to save my entire check and have my own assets with my own money. In the end, I’d likely be ok with signing a pre-nup or being openly told that his blood family gets all of HIS assets -I wouldn’t put any money into the assets anyway unless my name is on it. It’s his money. HOWEVER, If one day we have children and he convinces me to stay home, then I’d be singing a VERY different tune since I’d be dependent on him. I wouldn’t dare quit my stable fun job that I went to college and worked very hard for till things are legally taken care of so that I get my fair share of his things should something ever happen. I know it’s common for men to be the bread-winners. Yet, I have just always felt like those with the money hold the power. I wouldn’t ever want to put myself in a position where I felt stuck to him and couldn’t leave or speak up because I was financially dependent. Hence, if I quit my job (which I honestly never want to), I’d make sure things were legally in order.

    Again, I’m not sure if I’m understanding everything correctly since I’m new to these cultural concepts-please correct my way of thinking if I’m wrong. Gail, I’m so thankful you’re sharing your wisdom. The things you are saying are things I wouldn’t discover till much later. happy

  • maryam

    February 5, 2014

    Spirited,

    About the relationship between your husband/parents…they must resent what he’s done to you…does he resent them because they can provide better for you than he does?

    Also if you do have children with him could he resent that your parents will also provide the kids better than he could?

    I only ask cos id hate you to be in the situation where he takes some kind of revenge again at your expense!

  • maryam

    February 5, 2014

    Wa alaikum salam,

    I don’t think you’re foolish for holding on at all Spirited.

    It makes sense to wait until your own plans become clearer before deciding what you want from your husband.

    In a similar way people told me i was silly because i didnt make my husband support me initially. But it was my choice not to live together immeduately so i was happy to support myself. When i started living with him my expectations changed.

    You sound happy, looking forward to the future. You seem really forgiving and patient.

    Obviously your husband felt like your parents didnt respect him? Hence the”revenge affair”. I can understand how a man might feel useless and be tempted to get his ego stroked if its obvious he cant give you the lifestyle your parents have given you.

  • Spirited

    February 5, 2014

    Salaam everyone~

    I was going to reply earlier, but I literally passed out on the couch yesterday laughing Good news is, fever finally broke after 2 days, so now I feel loads better big grin. Now, just need to get past the phlegm phase, yummy lol.

    Last night, after my class, my husband called me because I always just send him a message when I’m going somewhere/going back home (just a habit). Since the university is near one of my parents’ other houses (one of them where he sleeps some nights because its closer to work/school), he asked me if I wanted to stop by ’cause he was at the house then. I asked him if he really wanted me to come or was just asking to be nice, and he said of course he wanted me to come. I warned him that I had the flu, I didn’t want him getting sick, and he said its no problem. So I stopped by there for about an hour, talked a bit about this-and-that, shot the breeze, I was getting tired and decided I should leave (its an hour drive). He said I should have stayed, but I reminded him I don’t want to get him sick & he had to be out early in the morning anyway. That was a nice little stop, lol.

    @Ummof4, very insightful, as always. I know you said rhetorical questions, but answering them to the blog would be useful (I think).

    1. & 2. We never agreed on any specific amount of money before his secret marriage. BUT he would often buy things for me, sometimes very expensive stuff that was beyond his minimum wage job at the time — he would save for a few months. It was nice. After this woman, he’s become much more selfish and any extra money goes to “his daughter” (supposedly).

    3. He’s not paying any kind of rent for us staying at my parents’. He’s not paying for any gas I use, he’s not paying for anything I’ve done towards a career change (he says education is my parents’ duty rolling eyes ), he’s not paying for anything I buy to eat, he’s not paying for anything I buy to wear (he used to buy me clothes, but not lately).

    4. Food & clothing is paid for by my parents (or myself). I’m on my husband’s insurance which covers most stuff, but any co-pays, I pay myself (husband says docs are not important, if I go for unnecessary things, I need to pay myself).

    5. Before his secret marriage, we were living in our own apartment. I don’t have any problems about where I live (I mean, I don’t have problems about being on our own or living with family/in-laws). We had to move in with my parents because his “responsibilities” for his “daughter.”

    6. He doesn’t have a written budget ever since he started his adulterous affair. Before that, we used to always discuss any purchases & expenses. We still sit down do our taxes together, but he barely ever discusses budget and things.

    And for contact info, I’ve asked him before, he always refuses. She apparently got into his phone somehow and went through it so she most likely has my phone number, and is stalking me on Facebook, so she could easily contact me, but hasn’t. I’ve got my own things to deal with so this isn’t too high up on my list of priorities though.

    @Ana, lol yep, that’s why I said I’m not holding my breath for when he finishes his education laughing. One thing about that though, this is something he has always said and he’s never changed it. Also, he has always thanked me for not pushing him and being unreasonable, so there is that.

    Oh, what you said reminded me about something! but let me specify some of what you said. He is intimate, and is home when he doesn’t have to go in early in the morning (otherwise he sleeps at one of my parents’ other homes in 1 room on the floor being used for storage). He has 1 more year (starting in July) before his education is finished. Whenever he goes to visit his 2nd wife/daughter, he always lets me know — I don’t ask him to go less or more.

    Here’s what I just remembered by reading what you said — he told me “it was only an affair to teach your parents a lesson, I never wanted a baby right now.” (as if “only an affair” is something to be taken lightly rolling eyes ). I’ve said it before, this woman probably realized he’s not serious about her so she played him since he trusted her for birth control, and she played him really easily, plus she’s older so her “biological clock” is winding down laughing. I know this isn’t a lie because I know when he married her which was months after she was already pregnant (I have my own proofs). Combined with all her threats, blackmailing, attempted manipulations, I don’t doubt that her character is severely lacking. She’s exactly the type of woman he deserves! laughing

    He just told me something last week that was unexpected. I was mentioning that the bottle of isopropyl alcohol looked unused — we had agreed for him to use it as part of cleaning off the non-muslim taint from himself when he’s intimate with his 2nd wife. He said the reason the bottle looks untouched is because he hasn’t touched it. I was about to go off on him, but he stopped me and said he hasn’t touched it because he hasn’t been intimate with her since before his baby was born because he can’t trust her and won’t risk having her trick him into having another baby that he can’t afford. Then he said his next baby is going to be ours Insha’Allah, and that’s that, lol.

    @Jenny, you’re right, I don’t demand much like your husband’s cousin/ex. I don’t see the value of spending so much on things that are considered “valuable” because of the brand name, it’s not for me. happy I’m sure I’m not his priority anymore, I know it must be his kid (that’s to be expected). I wouldn’t gain anything by demanding that he pay more attention (“me, me me!!!” nope), that would be childish. I’ve told him that he shouldn’t be surprised at what happens when I reach my tolerance limit, to which he said he promised he would keep me happy and he doesn’t intend to break anymore promises. Again, I’m not holding my breath, but I’m not breathing down his neck being demanding either. Is that wrong? I don’t know, I just don’t like forcing people to be the way they should be — either they are or they aren’t. I’m not his God, or his Mother.

    This is not just in reply to what you wrote Jenny, but in general — back in August, I demanded a divorce and he begged & begged for me not to, etc., etc. Everyone sat down together with a mediator and issues were discussed, decisions made and even terms drawn up. Part of these terms included that he would have to get another apartment for us to live together and all monetary responsibilities will be handled by him like a normal marriage.

    Now, I have asked that we wait a bit and see how my applications go — for instance, if I were to be accepted in another state, having an apartment around here would be a waste (though it would definitely keep him tight on his money, which I’m thinking wouldn’t be a bad idea laughing hmmmmmm ). Insha’Allah, I get in somewhere nearby, that would be the best overall, in my opinion.

    @Aishah, thanks for your informed information about chord bank and prices and stuff! I just remembered this after reading what you wrote — a few months ago, when I was complaining about how much money he spends for his “daughter” he hinted that he was trying to keep his 2nd wife satisfied because she might take him to court and demand more (the state she lives in requires child support at half or more of the parents’ money) — even though I said he was already giving that much, to which he said he would like to keep it at that level, even when he starts making more money, so if I could just remain patient, it would be great, because he wouldn’t want her using this as more blackmail. rolling eyes I don’t take him at his word, I’m going to see if his actions follow what he says. Funny how you guys can remind me of things — I need to write this down for my own reference. I’ve been writing down things my husband and I discuss, I make backups of our texts, etc. You have to do, what you have to do happy

    I mentioned above for contacting, I sure wouldn’t mind, I’ve been known to be perfectly pleasant even with people I hate laughing but I have no way of doing it. I could hire a private investigator, but I don’t want to blow all that money on someone I don’t respect. Aishah, he has told her (he says) since he married her that there is no way he is leaving me. If he wanted to leave me, he wouldn’t have begged me not to divorce him — he doesn’t NEED to be married to me for any reason other than he wants to be and loves me.

    @Ruqayyah, that’s a very interesting experience you shared about your friend. You can never tell how someone will react because of their ego. Luckily, we already had a sit down with a mediator (I outlined a bit just above). Sometimes I also feel like I should beat him laughing, but violence doesn’t solve anything lol. I totally agree with you that I should demand more, but we’ve got stuff setup, I’m just waiting on how my applications go at this point and then I’ll start demanding that he start with what was agreed on back in Sept/Oct. How’s that sound?

    Good reminders overall on what should be expected out of everyone involved. happy

    @Maryam, no worries, going off on tangents sometimes helps us think — its like thinking out loud or writing in a journal. Its kind of comforting to know that others feel the same as I do at times. I think sometimes we get caught up thinking about ourselves and stuff happy.

    Thank you for your input too! I have to say I already lost much of my respect for him. When we got married, we had discussed many important things — including no lying, no secrets, we had even discussed polygamy. The fact that he broke his promises, lied, & kept secrets made me lose almost all respect for him. Its not the polygamy, its more how he did it and what he did. He knows this because I’ve told him and he says he wants to build respect up again and he knows its not going to be easy. I told him good luck, let’s see laughing.

    Like you did with your husband, the agreement is for him to step up and BE a husband when we’re back to living in our place like before, 2nd wife or not. He dreams to buy a 2 family house and have his 2nd wife and daughter living in one apartment and us in the other. Its a nice idea, but there’s a lot of variables that have to fall in place for that to happen. She knows we’re still married, there’s no doubt about that — he’s mentioned how she’s been jealously ranting at him about events we’ve been to together (because of her facebook stalking me laughing ).

    I’m not happy with a “half-married” state & I’ve told him once or twice that if I’m going to be living like I’m single, I might as well be single! He asked me not to say that, as if I was dooming us to failure. What can I say, sometimes I just feel really cranky and annoyed, but I still think that it’s not too bad of a situation. I’ve read about so much heartache and difficulty that others have endured here, and my issues seem like nothing (that’s kind of why I asked your opinions in the first place happy ).

    So with everything I clarified, do you guys think I’m wrong to be giving him some leeway (wait until I see how the application process goes) before holding him to the agreements made? I’m thinking until then, I’ll increase how much he gives me monthly to start with, because he’s gotten a promotion & instead of wisely saving the “extra” money, if he’s just going to waste it, I’d rather have it my pocket. I also haven’t had a chance to go with him to the banks and make sure everything is on the up-and-up (when I’m free during bank hours, he isn’t and vice versa -_- ).

    Thank you for all of your recommendations and advice, ladies. I’m going to look over the things I have, and consider the advice. Seeing how things are going between us, for the time being it’s not too bad. I do need to step up with demanding my dues, that’s true. happy I’ll see what I can do, tactfully of course winking.

    Ok I’ll be back later, gotta take some medication and study a bit for class tomorrow. Thank you again everyone, and if you have any more thoughts after what I added in this post, do share! (which you guys reminded me of, lol, thanks for that too).

    Oh and before I leave — a friend put this on facebook earlier today. So simple and yet, so easily forgotten. From Quran, Surah 51, verse 56. “And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship me.” With that truth of the reason for life, all the self-importance people give themselves is so extremely useless and insignificant…

  • maryam

    February 5, 2014

    Ana, fantastic saying bout ignorant friend / intelligent enemy!

    So true and so dangerous!

  • maryam

    February 5, 2014

    Spirited,

    I also feel EXACTLY the same as you when you said sometimes you think your life would be better without him, but then you consider maybe thats Shaytan working and there must be some good Allah has placed in him. So you hold on, as i do.

    Sisters, I sometimes think i could still be feeling this way in 10yrs time. Frustrated, sad more than happy, confused, but just holding on because i dont want to give in to shaytan.

    There is good in my husband, but lately im pitying him and it feels awful. I feel im being dragged down by him. My life was better two years ago in many ways before i married him.

    Sorry for going off on a tangent, your thoughts just resonated with me Spirited.

  • ummof4

    February 5, 2014

    As salaamu Alaikum and hello to everyone,

    Gail, thank you for your frank answer about women marrying men from other countries and going it alone. It makes perfectly good sense. Also, if the women are already invested in a romantic intimate way with the men, of course they trust them. You and Felicia and others, please keep giving your hard-earned advice to others.

    Spirited, I will assume you have made Istikhara salah. Remember, you are worth more than you think and deserve more than you think. I remember a while back when you were saying that growing up you did not feel good about yourself. Well, now you do. Get your family involved and demand your rights as a wife. Let your husband know that he has to fulfill ALL of his responsibilities to you, regardless of his other family. You love your husband and he says he loves you as well, it’s time for him to show it.

    Everyone have a day filled with remembrance of Allah.

  • ana

    February 5, 2014

    Ruquyya,

    Maybe you’ve heard the saying, “An ignorant friend is worse than an intelligent enemy” hee hee I can’t believe the husband went home and divorced his wife, after the friend came to her defense sad

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 5, 2014

    Gail,

    I thought about me and I will say, no, I couldn’t see myself being wild and crazy, getting on any plane alone, flying to meet some foreign person, in a foreign land (particularly Pakistan, after watching the movie, “Zero Dark Thirty” ). You kiddin me?

    I like your saying – that Spirited needs to bust her husband over the head with the Marriage License. It beats my expression of taking him to the cleaners with it (Marriage License). I believe in having the upper hand, having leverage (even if it’s an illusion of leverage). There is nothing like a woman scorned.

    Spirited could divorce or come to a friendly agreement and remain married or get an arbiter to help resolve the problems. I agree with you that eventually she may explode, if she doesn’t speak up for herself, as the injustice in her case is huge. I think she believes that staying busy and going to med school would take her mind off it all. The problem is still there. It still exists. It would be another thing if she was divorced as maryam said. She then could move on with her life, Insha Allah.

    @ashes,

    Here is a link to the State Department website with information you need to read, as you are considering travel to Pakistan: http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/country/pakistan.html See “safety and security”.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ruqayya

    February 5, 2014

    @Ana, I felt it was important to mention that as the friend I had was SHOCKED! She thought it would straighten her husband up but the person she went to did not use wisdom and just shamed the husband without hearing his side of the story.. so when we decide to shake the boat we may end up with a different scenario than we had planned, it’s best to be prepared for everything.

    Lol alhamdulilah, I know we disagreed in the past about the allotment of money, I guess my wording was off in the previous posts about it. It’s sometimes hard to get the right message across through writing rather than face to face.

    Muhammad did you disappear again or are you still here? It’d be nice to continue to hear into your thoughts again, especially if you could elaborate on the third wife thoughts… my husband has the same ideas as you, he felt in the past that he could run away from the problems we have by remarrying, I’d LOVE to hear inside his head but, he’s off the polygamy bandwagon for now so no discussion is allowed in this household (his rules not mine) alhamdulilah for everything. I think most men desire many women, but it should never be used as a threat or a problem solver. It made me feel very alone in my marriage when my husband said that he wanted to marry to get a break from the problems we were having (external problems, not something I had control over) because, we’re supposed to be in this together and I’d never run away from him just because things were hard. But I guess it’s different in your case being that the wives ARE in control as it is their actions towards you.. Jenny does have a very good point though that your wife just went through a miscarriage.
    Many women who experience a miscarriage hurt even more so because they feel their husband does not care, I do believe you care because it was your child. But in your wife’s eyes she might be grieving all the more because you get to go and cuddle a new baby while her arms are empty. You can bet she is hurting a great deal right now. Please, please go home and hug her, let her know that the loss you both experienced is important to you, even if you may not show it.

  • maryam

    February 5, 2014

    Gail,

    You’re right about the stigma.

    It’s even worse for reverts who meet their husbands online and travel to meet/marry them. Admittedly there are very real dangers in doing that potentially. However, even in the community where i am they are mocked behind their backs, or given the “oh dear poor foolish thing” eyeroll and thats mean.

    Some people go as far as thinking you couldnt get a successful “western” man so had to settle for a migrant!

    A turkish friend in london said to me a few years ago “im kind of relieved pakistanis are getting such a bad reputation, it used to be us turks but now we dont look so bad!”

  • maryam

    February 5, 2014

    Salam sisters,

    Ruqayya and Ana,

    Very good points made about bringing in people to mediate marriage problems!

    It is in the Quran, and its vital for reverts with no Muslim family.

    When i thought my husband was being unfair i said ok i need to find a wali to talk to you on my behalf because you are being unreasonable. He was so horrified at the thought that someone in the community may find out about some things he would have just about agreed to anything!

  • Gail

    February 5, 2014

    Spirited,
    I just want to say that u need to learn to love and honor yourself.Don’t just take one thing from the Quran and run with it is my advice.You know what he is doing is wrong on so many levels.Just ask yourself is it worth it for u to keep silent.There is no sin in speaking the truth.Here is the bottom line as I see it he is not respecting you or your family and he is using u for a doormat and it is up to u how long u continue to let him get by with it.If u continue to be silent then stop crying and accept the situation for what it is because it is you not him or your cowife that is suffering.
    My honest opinion is he is arrogant and his true devotion lies with the mother of his child.I am so sorry to say that but where he is giving his money is where is heart is.You are letting him treat u like a cheap trick.What i mean is you know how these men run to a girlfriends home for free sex.The only difference is u are getting 100 bucks a month.Yeah u have a marriage license but u are refusing to stand up and bust him over the head with it.The bottom line is this sooner or later your are going to blow a gasket and tell him off.The only real question is will it be Sooner or Later?

  • Gail

    February 5, 2014

    Ashes,
    Felicia brought up a really great great point.If your husband has brothers and they are married do not automatically expect that their wives will accept you.Yes they will be nice to your face but keep in your mind if your husbands family loves u and they give u any kind of status in the family your husbands brothers wives are not your friends keep this in your mind.Those girls are looking to be head of family and you are saying that your BF is the oldest so that is a huge huge problem for you in the fact that u are not living in Pakistan but u are the older sons wife.This means that the second brother wife and her family will push your mother inlaw for that daughter to be head of the family.Listen I think i need to go over this with u more in depth because this is the very very reason I am in my own insane situation and I can see u being in serious serious problem on this issue.
    Listen ask your BF straight if u marry him since he is oldest in the family and u will be the older daughter inlaw what does this mean for u?Because u have been told by me that the older sons wife is head of family in Pakistan.What this means Chicky is that Head of family gets all money in her hand and deals everything in the home.NOW in saying all thiswhat I am telling u and talking about is 100% financial.If your husband is wealthy then u must must decide if u want to move to Pakistan and have all money come in your hands.Now my guess is this that chances your mother inlaw and the family will never allow this to happen because u are out of family and u must understand this.Yes they are nice to you and yes they may care about u but understand me clear when it come to money those people are something else and stingy and miser is not strong enough words.Honest to G.d you are nothing more than eye candy and a trophy wife.I hate to sound so negative I really really do but thats the cold hard facts.
    Listen to me clear if your BF is sending money back to Pakistan to be invested and supporting your inlaws then you have only 2 options.
    1. Close your eyes and play the trophy wife.I could not do this and thats why I am struggling.If u play the trophy wife that will mean u will keep you eyes closed and mouth shut period and let him give them money and do what he wants.I do not advise this as u will cry later.I again strongly advice u do not do this.

    2.If he is giving money u will have to tell him to stop or set a payment plan which he might agree to just to marry u but I doubt he will honor u in the long run and he will lie and give more and not tell u.So that leave u with the option to move to Pakistan and all money come in your hand as head of house.Which I doubt u are willing to do and your future sister inlaws and mother inlaw will never let that happen.

    This is your major malfunction u will need to address.
    Again I am sorry to be so negative but this what I am fighting now in my own family and believe me it is a nightmare.You have no idea.Believe me when I tell you if u do not address this issue and go into this with a clear head u will cry later on down the line.For your sake talk to him about Head of House.

  • Gail

    February 5, 2014

    Felicia,
    Yes this is the very problem that everyone is blood relatives in the family and they are all intermarried.When divorces happen in the marriages then the family members take guns and go hunting understand.So family members get beat and disowned.Obviously I am different and I tell them to knock off and just get over it and they instead of seeing me as a peacemaker they see me as a troublemaker.When I mention to my husband to just chill out that it is not the end of the world he just gets angry and refuses to talk to me for days and sometimes goes for a week at a time.It is so bad that his parents have flat disowned their entire family if u can imagine.
    Ana and Jenny always tell me to knock off and just leave everything alone and accept it but it is very hard for me because my husbands entire family and I mean entire family of more than 100 people have been disowned and at least half of those people that have been disowned by my inlaws is directly related to me.
    When I entered the family my inlaws and husband just jumped on my boat and my oldest brother inlaw wife became very jealous she hated me because I was helping my husband to come to USA and fixed his life in USA.Jealousy set in and she poisoned me.I became very very ill but thanks G.D I got over the illness.I should mention that one of my children drank out of my same coke bottle and he also became poisoned.My point is these people are very cruel and logically i get it but I don’t feel throwing every single family member away is the answer to solve the problems.My one sister inlaw is now in process to be a 2 time divorcee in Pakistan and this is very very bad.Spirited mentioned it is like she is a leaper and I would agree.I am not just trying to save my excowife but I am also trying to save my sister inlaw and her marriage to my excowife brother.It is way serious and way sad to em that I have somehow been stuck in a situation where a family is being destroyed because of me.Jealousy is so so bad and It really does destroy families.

  • Gail

    February 5, 2014

    Ummof4,
    that is a very good question that u have asked about woman traveling alone or with family.The majority of the woman I know I will say all of them traveled alone.I do not know one woman that traveled with a parent or friend to be frank and I will tell u why.These type of marriages seem to be a type of taboo and when a woman opens her mouth and says that she will be traveling to a foreign country to marry a foreign man in a foreign land people think they have done lost their mind.Everyone and I mean every single person will warn them not to do it.so to actually get another person to get on a plane and be just as wild and crazy as you don’t normally happen.

  • ana

    February 5, 2014

    Maryam, you are so right. Spirited can accept her condition and it would be Islamically correct. It would be similar to what Jenny’s husband’s first wife did. To each his own, I guess.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Gail

    February 5, 2014

    Ashes,
    I wanted to tell you when I went to Pakistan I lived in my inlaws home it was not a problem and my husband then boyfriend stayed in the same room and slept in the same bed etc…So they didn’t have an issue with it although my husband did tell his mom once we had are clothes on under the cover.lol I should mention we married 7 days after I arrived in Pakistan so we did not shack up to long and we always went out at night until we were married so people would not see I was living in the home unmarried.Listen never stay in a motel in Pakistan period unless your BF is with you it is dangerous.Pakistani people are very good to welcome others into their home if u are family and in this case u are basically family.Just go and see the country and see how he lives so u understand what u are getting into and see him in his culture the true him this is very important and I really can not stress that enough if u want to marry this man.
    Listen something else u need to make certain is properties in Pakistan and what he has on his name etc.. because legally u will be his wife and u have to understand he may give money to a property that may or may not be on his name and u need to understand this going into the marriage because although u may agree now that u are fine with him giving his family money(not saying he does but most Pakistani men do so beware)just understand if the property is not on his name and he is giving money there u will not receive anything towards that property and your standard of living will go down in USA because he is sending money back.These are just some things I have noticed when dealing with Pakistani men that maybe u might not have thought of or noticed.

  • maryam

    February 5, 2014

    Yes Spirited you deserve better.

    I sometimes think its human nature for people to get away with what we can. However, as Muslims we have no excuse to behave that way because Allah has made His expectations clear.

    You are a wife, he is a husband. Why are you living with your parents? Do you even feel like you are married?

    You will find it increasingly hard to respect your husband if he continues this way. This happened with my husband until i told him and asked for a moderate amount each week (once we started living togethet) to cover rent, food and bills. It made things better.

    It screams to me that he may be telling you and his other wife vastly different things. It would be interesting for you to know if she does in fact know you are still married.

    There may be a few clues if she even knows about you. Are there any photos of you on the camera? Does he keep your msgs on his phone or delete threads?

    Its easy to get into a “half married” situation like this, kind of married kind of not. If you’re happy thats fine, if not you could be better unmarried? At least that way you are in a position to being open to meeting another.

  • ana

    February 5, 2014

    Ruqayyah,

    You mentioned something very important when you said the one husband went straight home and divorced his wife after she got a third party involved. Spirited has to be prepared for whatever happens. No one knows how her husband will react other than Allah. Her husband may tell her that he wants a divorce or he may step up and do the right thing.

    If he wants a divorce, Spirited still knows where his heart is. A man can love more than one woman and refuse to give either up. If he gives up one, it means the other means waaaaay more to him that he was willing to let the other go.

    There is no wrong in getting other people involved in the marriage to settle disagreements or problems. There is an ayah in Quran in which Allah swt addresses the issue and says mediators from both sides of the families should mediate the problem.

    Spirited has to realize that not only is her husband disrespecting her, but he is disrespecting her parents and family, as well. He is so wrong and needs to be called out on it.

    Ruqayyah, I agree with you that the child’s maintenance should be separate from the wives. It’s the same as the children need no schedule to be with their dad. The schedule is only for the wives.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ruqayyah

    February 5, 2014

    Mind you I do mean I expect my rights in full when he is capable of fulfilling those rights.
    Your husband is capable of fulfilling some of his financial obligation upon you, if not then he can’t cause an injustice giving one wife so much more than the other.
    Although I, unlike some others on the blog, believe that each individual person in each family has a separate right. A wife’s right is separate to her childs right to maintenance, if the mother and father divorce the child still has the right for the father to feed and clothe him even though his mother no longer has that right. So your co should get as much as is required to fulfill her need and same to you, it shouldn’t be okay wife 1 got $50 so wife 2 gets $50 rather it should be okay household 1′s food bill is $100 whereas there are more people in household 2 so naturally the food bill will be a little extra. BUT each wife should be at the same standard of living unless she herself chooses to contribute to boost that standard of living, in which case the other wife can choose to contribute or live at the standard her husband is capable of providing.

  • Ruqayyah

    February 5, 2014

    Wow Spirited, what is your husband thinking? He really has some balls to be living off your parents to support his other family.. How you haven’t punched him in the throat is beyond me.

    I am not advocating violence against anyone, nor do I want to turn you against your husband, but the more we women settle for less, the more our husbands think they can get away with more. My husband knows I expect my rights in full, that doesn’t mean I won’t give him leverage if he needs it, but he knows I’m not afraid to call him out, including involving religious authorities, if need be. Yes it caused problems at the time because he was embarressed I took it so far, but after the dust settled he now knows I mean business. InshaAllah he remembers for future reference and inshaAllah your husband takes it in the best way should you choose to get others involved.

    Be warned though make sure it is someone who will use wisdom when advising your husband, my friend got a family friend to advise her husband and he was so embarressed he went straight home and divorced her. It’s best to remind the person who you want to help step in to be patient, hear both sides of the story, and advise in a cool, calm manner rather than just accuse him of anything.

  • ana

    February 4, 2014

    Spirited, As Salaamu Alaikum,

    Just because she has his kid and you don’t doesn’t mean she gets all his money. She gets $800.00 and you get $100.00 a month. An average kid probably gets about $100.00 as a monthly allowance. I think your parents are waiting for you to give them the okay to have a serious talk with him. Sounds like he moved you back home with your parents so he could take care of his other. It would be totally unacceptable to me. I demand my due. I have demanded my due and got it. It pays to have leverage. You’re not asking for any more than you are entitled to. As maryam said, some people settle for less, as they think it is what they are worth.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • aishah2013

    February 4, 2014

    Salaams Spirit hi I think your husband is not being truthful or fair with the money situation. Remember I do have some experience with lies and financial abuse. First the money for baby and cord blood bank.babies are expensive in daycare ( here like $175/week) if not in daycare not an issue. Diapers and formula expensive/not $800 and how do you know she is not gettin governmentgfinancial assistance for formula,baby food,etc.cord blood banking…call a couple for pricing yourself. We are doing it and that price seems way high. It was about $100 a month for first year ( after $350 cost for getting it at birth) and then $125 a year for the 20 years it is usable. Sure he can work out a different plan. Whether it is necessary…could save someones life someday or could turn out its never used. Only God knows. But yes I could say it shouldn’t cost that amount.serious $400 month? Nope.maybe the cost for baby is other things – a college fund ( that could get steep) savings account, I don’t know. But really check prices for yourself.then yes give him knowledge that you knows he is lying if he is….the interaction between you and 2 nd wife? Yes I would contact her. Expect anything as ummof4: said. And your husband? Yes he may get mad but so be it. She should know he tells you he is not leaving you and she is not a “replacement”… yes Allah will deal with everyone, but go ahead, its your right and you are worth it!,,…..OK Brother Mohammad congratulations on getting to Hajj this year. My husband went too. I was pleased to be able to help him get there.maybe you passed each other somewhere there!you and 2 millions others of course… your wives..it is possible that the peace you seek may never come with the combination of wives you have…is that your test? Because certainly your wives are being tested. Please dont threaten to get a third wife. That is hugely insensitive and will not solve any problems. Work hard to find the blessing and peace and comfort in the 2 marriages you have. Please don’t compare your wives please don’t say ” you two areso much alike because you say or do”whatever it may be. Women sure do not want to hear that. Yes your wife may still be suffering the loss…please be sensitive to both their needs.and if your wives do not wish to communicate /socialize ( would appear they do not) then you can’t force it. I think they don’t live close right?just let it be. People cannot be forced to meld together although sure its easier if they do,

  • ashes

    February 4, 2014

    @ Gail,

    I’d welcome an opportunity to visit Pakistan; I work at a school, so get summers off and realistically could -and of course I’d listen to your tips on how to be safe. My bf is an American citizen by the way, I don’t think I mentioned that. Although his mom and sister extended several invites for me to come visit them, I’d imagine it’d be an awkward situation prior to marrying. My boyfriend wouldn’t dare so much as lay one finger on me the 4 months they were here or give me a simple hug hello in front of them. When we all first started doing things together as a group, the mom and sister had to insist for him to sit next to me during dinner outings or movies since he’d stick me next to his mom or sis. It was strange seeing him so timid.

    They genuinely seem to accept and like me, but I’m sure i’d be testing the limits if I stayed in their house with the title still under girlfriend-even in my very own bedroom. More realistically, I’d end up in a hotel and my boyfriend would stay at their home as to not throw in their faces that he’s staying in the same bedroom as me. I probably wouldn’t get the same eye-opening experience as actually staying with the family in their own home and seeing roles played out first hand. You and others may be the only outlet i have to that “world” prior to marrying. But who knows, his family has surprised me so far, they may just end up going with the flow and skipping the status quo. It’d sure be neat to stay with them!

    it seems the only real adjustment for me if I stay with him will be to learn more of Islam – he says it’s fine for me to remain Christian. Yet, he will always be Muslim- it’s a part of who he is, so I’m sure I’d have to understand it more and try to support him. If I’m with him, Islam is a part of the deal. Without a doubt he’d want our children to be Muslim as well.

    Thanks Gail and Ana for welcoming me to the blog. Probably won’t be a big commenter since I’m not living polygamy, but I do read frequently – will check in with comments here and there- esp. when the blog turns toward culture and Islam if they come up since I’m new to understanding both. I’m so happy I have a place to turn to with knowledgable people when needed. happy

  • Jenny

    February 4, 2014

    @ Spirited,

    I am very glad to hear you are getting mad! You are certainly within your rights to be mad and when you are mad and demand your pound of flesh from your husband, you will get results!

    When I read what you were saying reminds me of how my husband treated his cousin. If you don’t demand respect, you won’t get it ~ remember that. We go to Europe, I ride around driven in my Bentley. A Bentley he put so much thought into as to have our initials embroidered into the headrests and on the door runner. Hubby buys me lots of gold, diamonds, houses, babies, trips, and ton and tons of love. Hubby had no use for his cousin other than for her to take care of his mother. He never lived with her ~ ever. She got no gold, vacations, trips, Bentley’s, diamonds or love. Not that she demanded it anyway ~ like you.

    This same husband, when he was the emcee for the Pakistan Independence Day festival stood before 70,000 people and publicly thanked me and told me how much I mean to him and how he wouldn’t have been there if it wasn’t for me and my hard work.

    Plain and simple, and I’m sorry if this hurts, you are not his priority anymore. He’s just appeasing you. Men fall in love and their head and eyes go crazy. What I see is your husband is treating you like my husband treated his cousin.

    Like Gail brought up earlier, his cousin’s parents have passed and all she has left is her brother. Her brother (my husband’s cousin) is more worried about offending my husband than protecting his sister. My husband is the golden boy of the family. Do you know what he sold his sister for? SQUAT!! I send $250 per month back to Pakistan “for his cousin.” But guess what? It goes to hubby’s mother and that’s it. I doubt she sees two rupees of it. She recently got a job in the school as a helper of some sort.

    I send extra money back there without him knowing. I treat her with kindness.

    My husband is black and white ~ no consistency at all. The way he treats me and our family is 180 degrees than how he treats them back in Pakistan. I gave up trying to figure it out! It was making my brain cramp.

    When I read your post it just screamed what happened to the cousin. I would hate to see that happen to you! Keep screaming and have your dad have a few words with old hubby. Most importantly pick up the phone and talk to her. Don’t even tell your husband as he will create turmoil so the meeting doesn’t happen. You need to grab the situation like a pit bull!

  • ana

    February 4, 2014

    @Spirited, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    I don’t think you should trust anything your husband says, as he is known to lie on a regular. He says he’ll begin to give you more money when this, that and the other happens. He’s not giving you a decent amount of money now while he is able and capable, why would he do it in the future? He’s becoming accustom to you not demanding anything from him. It’s easy for someone to say what they will do in the future. No one knows what they are going to do in the future or what will happen. Yes, your husband can make his intentions, but he hasn’t intended any good for you right now. Now is what’s important. He is married to you. He is supposed to pay for a place for you to live, for your food, clothes and whatever else. I could see you jumping in there to help out, if he did not have the money, or you simply wanted to (to be generous and giving) AND you were his only wife. It’s not the case.

    He has been spending money on he and his other family. $100.00 that he gives you monthly is nothing. He has the money to share between you and her, but he prefer to take care of her. Is she better than you? It’s not your parents responsibility to take care of you; although they don’t mind. You have a husband. What good is he to you? He gives you $100.00 monthly, stops by to see you and I’m assuming you and he are intimate. He chats with you and then go back to his family who he seems to adore. So, he has a child by her. You were willing to have a child with him, as well. He said no; don’t do it; now is not the time. Yet it was okay and the time for her. I’m sure; if you were to get pregnant your parents would help you out and they would love and cherish their grandchild. I know you intent to continue your education and it’s not a priority for you right now. Still. That man has got some b@lls.

    You say you will let Allah swt deal with you, he, her and the situation. We have rights and we are to stand up for ourselves and not be cowed. You have family you could turn to and let them know you need their help in stepping to your husband, and have him do right. I don’t have any Muslim blood family. I rely on my walibestess to confront Alex whenever he gets out of line. My husband has a responsibility to me. You have a husband who has a responsibility to you as well. You need to stand up to this man and let him know that he is your husband the same as he is hers and you expect certain things from him and one is to be taken care of properly now, not in the future.

    You said you think that he is playing the two of you, telling her one thing and you another or saying she doesn’t want to be bothered with you and telling her that you don’t want to be bothered with her. Your husband has been known to lie and keep the lie going. I could understand you have a mistrust of him. He is not a trustworthy person.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ummof4

    February 4, 2014

    As-salaamu Alaikum and hello to all,

    Spirited, I do believe that your husband is not being as just as he could with his money. He has many responsibilities to you as his wife, giving you money or providing for your basic needs is one of them. I have a few questions for you that are rhetorical.
    1. How much money was he giving you regularly before he was with the other wife? Was he consistently giving you the agreed upon amount of money?
    2. Did the amount he was giving you decrease, and if so, when and by how much?
    3. Does he pay your parents rent for your living with them? (I think you said previously that he did not.)
    4. Who provides you with food, clothing and medical care? Your parents provide you with shelter.
    5. Were you satisfied living with your parents and your husband not supporting you before he married again or did you become dissatisfied after he married again?
    6. Does your husband have a written budget? Has he ever had one? Do you think that if he wrote down his income and expenses that he would see that he could be giving you more than he is now.

    The impression I have is that your husband knows that you will be provided for even if he gives you no money at all because you live with your parents. It is possible that he feels that he must give more to his other wife because she has a child (who as you said, does not cost $800 a month) and because she does not have the family support that you have.

    When my youngest daughter was married she and her husband lived with us. He was fresh from another country and quite young and still had to learn a lot of English, but he found employment. He had to pay my husband a portion of his earnings each week. This taught him to be responsible for his wife. It wasn’t a lot of money, but it was the principle that was important.

    With the issue of you and his other wife not communicating, I believe the only way that you will know for sure is to talk to her yourself. Ask your husband for her contact information and see what happens. If he doesn’t give it to you, he may be playing games. If he does give it to you be ready for anything. She may not answer your call or email; she may answer you in a negative fashion; just be ready for anything. Or you could tell him to give her your info (she already has your facebook info, you said) and she can contact you.

    Take care Spirited and keep up with your positive outlook. I pray that you will get into your first choice school, In shaa’Allah.

    Everyone please try to love and serve Allah as
    He commands us to.

  • ummof4

    February 4, 2014

    As-salaamu Alaikum and hello to all,

    Gail, it is extremely kind and caring of you to warn and advise others about marrying a man from Pakistan so they may avoid what you had to go through. Even if they choose to go through with the marriage, they are now entering into it informed of what will most likely happen after they are married. I pray that the women read this and take your advice, especially about making sure that the American embassy knows their whereabouts and has a copy of their passport.

    Question: Do any American or European women who plan to marry a man from another country ever travel with their parents, a relative or a friend? Do they always go it alone? If so, maybe they would fare better if they did not go it alone. It seems that men with ulterior motives prey on women who are independent and do not have family or friends to travel with them.

  • Spirited

    February 4, 2014

    Salaam everyone!

    @Gail, there’s a 3rd category, the American Pakistani Muslims laughing (born ‘n raised here, but of Paki descent, lol). The thing with women in Pakistan, this is what I’ve noticed, maybe I’m wrong — divorce is treated like a life-ending thing over there. The woman who is divorced is treated like a leper, so (I think) that’s why they usually feel its better to keep the “married” label even if their “marriage” ends up in such a way that they don’t even see their so-called-husband (he’s off in another country livin’ it up with a girlfriend. Oh wait, I mean “wife” because of course these men would neeeever do anything sinful rolling eyes ).

    You know, sometimes even now, I think I should just divorce my husband & be done with it. I feel like I could do much better. Then I think about what God says — that you might not see it but He has put good in your spouse for you. And I think about if what I consider the problems are really that bad, & I usually come out with no it’s not. I also noticed that I think about giving up when I’m angry laughing so it could just be the devil playing with me (considering these negative thoughts only come up when I’m angry).

    But let me ask you guys your opinion, I do appreciate your feedback and its always useful to see what other people think. There’s 2 main things that I don’t like. The first is the money issue. My husband was recently gushing about a $500 camera & showing me pictures he took with them (of his daughter of course). And this is still after constantly saying he has no money — though he’s consistently spending $400/month for chord bank (which I feel is NOT a necessity) plus the $800/month (a baby does NOT require that much) plus free access to his credit cards (which I do NOT have). Maybe he would have more money if he wasn’t being irresponsible with it. He even asked my sister if he picked a good camera (because she does art & photography and has a few high-end, expensive cameras & lenses herself). She answered him nicely, and when he left, she said that was just unbelievable that he’s going around buying these expensive things and to me, he has a hard time even giving me a mere $100/month! I agreed with her, but didn’t say anything about the whole thing and neither of us mentioned it to our parents because they tend to go into a blind rage about anything he does lately. When I’ve asked him the money issue, he says he’ll be able to give me all I could ever want as soon as his education is over & he’s got a job in the field he is studying. I’m not stupid enough to hold my breath for that (which is why I’m going back to school myself — like you guys know). Your thoughts on this? Personally, I’m (trying) to just leave it up to Allah. He is the one who gives of His bounty (and takes away), after all happy. Plus, I’ve read that the more a person chases after something in this world, the more Allah strings you along. So if he’s going to be just unfair about money his whole life, then (I feel), let him. Allah will be sure to take care of it. Insha’Allah, my own path will be fruitful and I won’t have to think about his lack of contribution to this aspect of a Muslim husband’s responsibilities.

    The other thing that makes me angry is that sometimes I think he’s playing games with me and his 2nd wife. I feel like when he tells me that his 2nd wife doesn’t want to talk to me, he might also be telling her I don’t want to talk to her — just to keep us apart so he can have some kind of sick satisfaction out of creating drama. I can’t really explain why I feel like that sometimes, but I do. Maybe its just in my head laughing.

    I’m keeping myself busy though. I randomly signed up for another class at my old college — infact, I signed up all of a sudden on the very last day, lol. I have doctor shadowing daily. I’m waiting for results of the test to come in (I think it’s going to be about a month). I’ve almost finished the centralized application for DO schools, and I should be able to apply to a couple of schools this cycle, which is cool. Insha’Allah, I’ll get accepted somewhere big grin

    Well, I have to finish up a lab writeup which is due in a few hours. Oh, I even went in to the doctor shadowing during the huge snow thing yesterday laughing. He said I didn’t have to come in, the weather being so terrible (I actually had to rock the car during a few places where it got stuck in the snow — drive/reverse, drive/reverse lol). I told him, “psh, I’m not a weenie, you’re here so why wouldn’t I be?” He was pleasantly surprised and said he liked my attitude. I didn’t go in to the doc’s office today though, ’cause of the flu — I didn’t want to get his patients or his staff sick. My class though, I can’t really skip this, it moves at a breakneck pace and missing a day is pretty much a disaster sad. Ok guys, talk to you later.

  • ana

    February 4, 2014

    Felicia,

    I can see clearly now. Isn’t it amazing how someone could tell us something over and over again for the longest time and we don’t get it and then suddenly it registers? I wonder what that’s all about. I read your post and it clicked. I see, said the blind man LOL

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Felicia

    February 4, 2014

    @Ana and Spirited,

    I also get dizzy thinking about whose who in the zoo. Can you imagine the drama if you upset one person in the family. Everyone is linked and sometimes double linked to that person so the entire family and everyone other person you see will be angry at you. I think this is what Gail has been trying to explain to us

  • Felicia

    February 4, 2014

    @Gail,
    Please tell Ashes where she can buy a box of those Life Straws!!!

  • ana

    February 4, 2014

    @Jenny,

    I didn’t know you were still grieving the loss of your twins sad I had no idea. You opened my eyes to what my older sister experience when she lost her two year old years and years ago. I had spoken of it before here on the blog. He was born with a rare blood disease. He was never able to do anything. He was like a vegetable. He eventually had to have a tracheotomy. He wasn’t able to cry. My sister was a nurse so she was able to care for him, but towards the end they needed help brought end.

    I couldn’t understand how she simply couldn’t get over his death quickly as she already had a son and was pregnant with a daughter when she lost her son. All this time, I never understood until you mentioned what you have been going through. I now understand that no human being can replace another. Alex tells me it all the time. He said if he lost me, no one could replace me. It always touches my heart.

    Gee, Jenny, {{{hugs}}} Try to stay strong…

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 4, 2014

    @Gail,

    It would be nice if Imams would addressed issues related to polygamy in depth. Perhaps they do someplace.I don’t attend mosques, so I can only go by what I know exists in the Muslim community from the media or from those on the blog who speak of their experiences with Imams or from my wali/bestess and Alex. My wali/bestess and Alex have advised me that a number of times when they’ve been to Masjids (mosques) the Imams said to the males, they should marry more women, as there are women in need of husbands out there. That was it. They said no more. They virtually were saying to any Tom, Dick or Harry without any qualifications that they should marry more women i dont know They didn’t mention the current wives. I guess to h*ll with them (current wives) sad

    I’m grateful to our Creator that we have this blog here as a means to help people. I can only pray it’s a blessing and ask Allah swt to forgive us if we erred in anything we’ve said. He is a Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful God, if we sincerely repent and seek His forgiveness

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 4, 2014

    Dear Gail,

    Thank you much for welcoming Ashes. I was happy she wrote to you. It was a confirmation of how valuable the information you, along with others share here. Many don’t realize how many silent readers are out there in cyberspace, reading this blog. The blog has been a help to many and a blog is nothing without those who contribute by way of writing and sharing their knowledge and experiences.

    @Ashes,

    As Gail stated, you are welcome here anytime. If you have any questions, simply ask. We would be glad to help you as best we can.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Gail

    February 4, 2014

    Ana,
    It is very thought provoking about how imams are handling this issue.U would think at the very least there would be religious classes for Polygamous men so that if they decided to live polygamy they would have a place to go and gain understanding on how to conduct their home life.How amazing would it be to actually have a man sit down with his wives and be able to bring unity to his family instead of division.I feel it is the husbands job to help keep the peace between the wives and be a respectable husband after all he chose polygamy.It is very thought provoking to me.

  • Gail

    February 4, 2014

    Jenny,
    U better make some popcorn and sit back and watch the fireworks on this one blow up!Holy crap when u insert your foot u do a dang good job girl.lol you gotta let me know how this drama unfolds.
    As far as your excowife not saying anything my guess is I imagine she talked with her family when the news came out that he married you.He would smoothed it over on that side and I am certain she would not have been happy.Pakistani woman do what there family tell them to do they are not free to scream unless they clear it with their parents and elder siblings.Everything is a family affair.So if she did not scream and demand it was because her family told her not to more than likely.I think u also mentioned that your husband and cowife brother came to some solution for her to stay in the home and raise the kids and receive a monthly allowance.As long as she is getting her monthly allowance normally the girls and her family are fine.It is a strange concept to us being from the west but Pakistan is a poor country and the woman are just not allowed their own voice separate from their family.

  • Gail

    February 4, 2014

    Ashes,
    Thank you so much for coming forward and sharing your story.It really touches my heart that u have found the site so helpful.I was feeling down the last two days that maybe I have kinda out lived my usefulness on the blog and my story was beating a dead horse so to speak so thank u very much for coming forward and letting me know u were helped.
    I would like to tell you my inlaws are also from Rawalpindi/Islamabad area.Let me give u a heads up if there is anyway possible that u can take a few months off of work and go visit Pakistan for 3 to 6 months before u decide to marry I think that would be your very best bet to be honest.If u are going to marry into this family u should go and see with open eyes what u are committing your life to.You will have children with this man and they will be Pakistani so I would suggest you to see where you husband comes from and his culture.In saying all this if u decide decide to go u need to register with the USA embassy and leave several numbers and Addresses with your family and a copy of your USA passport.Bottom line be safe I have heard some real horror stories about Pakistani men taking the white”Gori” girlfriends to pakistan only to sell them into prostitution.Just please be certain this is the life u want to live u are still very young and Pakistani men no matter how sweet they seem before marriage 99.9% change and become very opinionated and controlling after marriage.Things that u are doing now that he is letting slide now he won’t be inclined to let slide after marriage.Islamabad is very beautiful and my favorite place to eat is Kabul.It is very tasty and so much fun they have all kinds of Tika.lol if u ever need advice u know the blog is here for u.

  • ashes

    February 3, 2014

    @ Gail

    I’ve never commented on here mainly because I’m not living Polygamy. I stumbled upon this blog some time ago and stuck around because it branches into other things beyond polygamy – cultural and religious norms.

    I’m in my late 20′s, a christian “gori” from the west coast. I’ve been in a relationship with a man in his mid 30′s from Pakistan for just shy of 2 years -he is very religious but claims he can’t be considered too spiritual since he is dating me. We’re both adults -I’m an RSP specialist and he’s a leading engineer at a very well known tech company.

    When things started getting serious between us, I started researching viewpoints from his culture/religion to openly and honestly discuss before proceeding (polygamy just being one of many, which is how I ended up here). I’m not naive, I realize cross-cultural relationships rarely work out.

    My head hurt after reading things on this blog. We discussed things till our faces turned blue. It was the cause of many arguments, “I’m sure you’re just going to leave me one day if your ami ever calls you back for an arranged marriage…that is if you don’t already have a secret wife!”, “I’m probably a secret to your family?!”, “Your family would never accept me!” etc etc… He always reassured me I’ve nothing to worry about and to please stop stereotyping and he’s such a wonderful person to me, but thoughts still lingered in my mind. I’m so thankful we had these discussions now rather than later. He says i have nothing to worry about, but thanks to you and others, I am moving forward with eyes opened…

    About four months ago, my boyfriend’s mom and sister came from overseas to stay with my boyfriend. His sister had an arranged marriage @ about age 30 and at 37 is having her first baby. She has a master’s but is a stay at home wife now. She came here for birth tourism, wants the baby to be a US citizen.

    I was worried meeting his mom and sister for the first time -the sister lives in Dubai and the mom lives in Islamabad, they are both devout muslims. I was sure they wouldn’t like me. My boyfriend introduced me as the woman he plans on marrying-it was a big deal to meet them since i’m the only girl he has ever introduced to his family- again, he’s in his mid 30′s very established and marriage and children are big goals of his. Anyway, turns out his mom and sister love me – they even tell me they do. They always invited me to tag along shopping with them, out to dinner, the movies. We had a blast together the entire time they were here. They cooked for me often and kept insisting for me to visit their homes overseas one day soon. For Christmas – a holiday they don’t even celebrate, they got me a macbook air. I don’t know what’s said behind closed doors, but I do get the feeling they accept me. Why they welcomed me with such open arms, i’ll never know. My guy and I are so relieved we all get along wonderfully.

    I just feel so thankful that this blog has helped me know which questions are important to ask. There’s a fine line between cultural norms and stereotyping. I’m the happiest I’ve ever been, but again, thanks to this blog I’ve learned to ask many questions and feel more in the know. So YES you and others are a wealth of information. There was even a blog on here, “marry a Pakistani man-beware” so I just wanted to comment and let you know you do help- although I would of preferred for my existence to be unknown. tongue

    Wishing all you wonderful opinionated ladies a wonderful week day. happy xxx

  • Jenny

    February 3, 2014

    @ Muhammad,

    I was so happy to hear from you! Often I wondered what happened to you and I knew you were going through it.

    Let me give you something to think about. Your first wife went through that very sad miscarriage. As you know, I lost my twins. We both had our losses at the same time last year. For women, that pain cuts like a knife. Yes, you were sad, but your wife is consumed. Granted that she was never happy you took a second wife, but do you really expect her to be chummy-chummy with another woman who has your child too? A baby no less.

    It has just been a year for me and the loss of my little twins cuts me just as deep today as it did the day it happened. For quite a period, and that period is different for each woman, we become bitter and can’t stand the sight of a child in our presence, because it hurts too bad. Even now when someone comes in our office with a baby my nerves are on edge. More often than not I leave the office to grab a coffee. A year later and I cannot stand it still ~ even though I have four other children.

    Your wife is still torn up inside, where you may have gotten over it. If my husband had another wife and a small child ~ let’s just say I would have lost it! Your wife is a very strong women, but I feel that she is still hurting ~ I know I am. Many nights I still find myself crying and dreaming about them. For a woman, each child is very special ~ regardless how many she may have. Please be patient with her!

    @ Gail,

    You had me about to wet my pants about the “squealing like a pig!” Your remark hit home with me with my sister-in-law. I broke the family secret quite by accident. My husband’s sister’s husband lives in Florida where he is married to an American woman. They have a few children together.

    One day I was talking to my nephew and eldest son on Skype and they just mentioned that their cousin was the only child (my nephew that lives in Florida ~ he’s grown in his 20s). I said, “He is not no only child! He’s got three sisters and a brother!” Apparently, no one knew about these children but me, and I had no clue that no one in Pakistan knew about them. Needless to say, I literally ripped the scab off that festering wound. The truth is so much easier.

    When I told my husband, he said that a real sh*t storm would be coming and now all these things were going to happen. So yes, polygamy is not accepted in Pakistan. Although, I will say, when my husband told his cousin about me, she had nothing to say. Really, what could she say? He never lived with her in the first place???

  • maryam

    February 3, 2014

    Salam alaikum everyone,

    It is nice to hear how men think.

    @Muhammad,

    Brother it sounds to me like polygamy has not lived up to your expectations.

    Did you have a plan to encourage peace between the wives before you married again?

    When i read your post i felt like it said “these wives dont make me happy so il look for one that does”. It sounded very selfish, especially as you chose polygamy.

    Are your current wives happy? Im sure you want them to have the same happiness and peace you are wanting.

    If i was asked to be a 3rd wife i would be interested to know if the first two were happily married to him as an indicator of how he manages polygamy.

  • ana

    February 3, 2014

    Gail,

    The reason I said, good luck with the Imams stepping up and speaking out about or acting on the problem is because the Imams all have their own agenda, which is not the same. There are too many sects (Shite, Sunni, salaaf etc.) There is no unity. The Muslim community is in a very bad condition. It’s been that way since the death of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

    Look at the condition of women all over the planet. Again, look at Pakistan where in some places they don’t want females educated; what was going on with the Taliban; the stoning of women that still takes place in some countries; the killing of female infants still till this day; Muslim are killing Muslims daily. Look at the news in Iraq. They’re blowing each other up daily. It continued during Ramadan last year. Nothing is changing for the better.

    Polygamy is a hush subject. Many don’t want to touch it. Aishah brought it to our attention when she returned from a lecture. She ask the lecturer about polygamy and the lecturer skipped right over it. There are a lot of Muslims who do not want or like polygamy.

    I can’t say what the Imams positions are about women as 2nd or 3rd class citizens. I can only say there is no progress being made in the Islamic communities.

    Allah swt in some of the Ayat in Surah Maryam of the Quran speaks of the various Prophets (Peace and Blessings on Allah be Upon them); he mentioned who they were, what they were and what they did. He follows the Ayat up in another Ayah in which He says:

    “But after them there followed a posterity who missed prayers and followed after lusts soon, then, will they face Destruction,-” Quran: Surah 19, Ayah 59

    We’re seeing it in the Muslim world today. Many Muslim don’t worship Allah. (Allah says don’t give Me part-time worship). They only chase after their own desires. They are trying to get their desires satisfied or fulfilled.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 3, 2014

    @Muhammad, As Salaamu Alaikum

    What good news that you and your wife were able to perform Hajj. Alhumdulliah. I pray Allah swt grants you all the good you asked him for happy

    About you thinking of taking a 3rd wife, I’d ask you to be honest with yourself. Does it really have anything to do with either of your current wives? I have a gut feeling that you’d want a 3rd wife even if all was going well with your other two. It’s something you simply desire. You probably feel a need to rationalize why you want another. You don’t need a reason. You could straight up say you want another wife. End of story.

    I believe polygamy is for Believers. It’s the only way it will work and all the parties involved will have a harmonious, peaceful, tranquil marriage. A man should have his first marriage together and working well before he takes another and on it goes. You all have to have a single purpose, which would be to put your selfishness aside and worship and serve Allah swt together – not worship husbands and wives. So, it’s the ideal as I see it. As I always say, marriage and everything should be about Allah swt, not about husbands and wives. Our Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) married women, some from various tribes. He brought them all together and it was for one goal and purpose only. It was for the promulgation of Islam.

    You said you want Peace in life which you rarely get. Taking a 3rd wife will not bring you any peace. You’ll have two wives who may come together, as you stated, to gang up on and turn against you. They will fight you. What good is it? You’ll still have two discontented women who you must go home to. Where is the peace in it?

    You don’t know what you will get with the 3rd. She will have baggage and issues just like the other two have their own. She’ll have to cope with being the new addition to the family who will not be liked by the first two. Once she gets emotionally invested in you, she may not like the limited amount of time she has with you, and you best believe the other two won’t like it having less time with you either. It’s one more person you have to concern yourself about come Ramadan and the Eid. The Eid was problematic for you in the past, with regard your two wives.Instead of you finding the peace and calm that you’d like, you would have just bought yourself more headaches. You can’t turn to created thing (wives) and think they will bring you any peace or anything else.

    If you want peace, you have to get it from Allah swt. The peace will come from worshiping and serving Him. You will get it from remembering Allah. You won’t get it by chasing tail. I got that expression from the movie, “Ray” about Ray Charles. It was a good movie.

    To get your house in order, you have to put emphasis on pleasing and serving Allah swt. It’s what we all must do in order to receive Allah’s blessings and bounties and have it be good for us and not a burden or a means to agonize us. Allah swt gives to all of his servants for various reasons, some good, some bad.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ummof4

    February 3, 2014

    As-salaamu alaikum ans hello to everyone,

    We now have two brothers with the same name on the blog. Muhammad is the one considering a third wife; Lynette I believe your answer called him Mohammed.
    Mohammed is the brother who is African and needs advice about his first wife not accepting his second wife.

    Lynette, the advice you gave Muhammad was very wise. You gave him lots to consider. As you said, polygyny and adding another wife never solves problems with the present wives or brings about more peace. All men need to be the role model as you said. I am a firm believer that the husband sets the tone for an polygynous marriage.

    May Allah guide us all to what is correct.

  • Lynnette

    February 3, 2014

    Assalamu Alaikum, and peace to all,

    @ Brother Mohamed,

    I wanted to make du’a about what to say to you before I spoke; May Allah (swt) guide my fingers to the keys as I type; the good I may say is from Him. If I speak something wrongly, please do attribute it to me. My intention is to help you.

    I am not a polygamous wife — I almost ended up there. I had a haram relationship with a Pakistani man — one that almost became a marriage. I backed out after prayer and contemplation, because I feared the damage that would be done to his first wife, their child, and to his relationship with his Mother.

    I believe that Allah’s way works, and it works better than any way we may plan for ourselves.

    I believe that much suffering comes from the unwillingness to submit our will to the will of Allah, great and Glorious is He!

    I doubt that a third wife will solve the problems you face in your marriages; in fact, any peace you may get as a by-product of the third marriage will probably be the result of the “disconnection” that occurs in the hearts of your current wives.

    Mohamed, I have come to realize that many women will never be satisfied. I have come to understand that many of us want what we think others have, not understanding that what looks perfect on the outside is most likely a visual distortion. People see in others what they want to see.

    I am sure that you have tried to exercise patience, and that you pray as much as you can. I wish to encourage you, Brother, to continue to connect meaningfully with your wives, and to learn the inner workings of the heart of each. Be the leader; teach them patience through your example. Be predictable; in predictability and routine there is comfort, even for the smallest child. Love is a series of deeds — not words — that demonstrate kindness, gentleness, an understanding and willingness to assume duty and responsibility, trust, fidelity (even in polygyny, there must be fidelity), and constancy. Continue to show them love as you teach. Keep any favoritism you may be feeling to yourself; each of these ladies is beautiful and special. Allah (swt) has placed good in them for you, and though the good may not be what you want, it is there. ::cake or vegetables::

    But Brother, you must be firm as well. Constant backbiting and trouble-making cannot be allowed. Again, your constancy is required. Your leadership by example is also needed.

    Please, don’t threaten them with a third, or with divorce. They are hurting enough. If Allah (swt) has written a third wife for you, then so be it. But you will not have to look.

    Aside from that, logistically, can you afford to support and maintain a third wife? What about the time that would require? Do you have that time? The money? The energy?

    May you continue to be Blessed; may you be given Knowledge from Knowledge.

  • ana

    February 3, 2014

    Dear Laila,

    I didn’t know Malaysian men (not all) have a tendency towards domestic violence. It is something some Hispanic men are known to have a tendency towards, as well. Of course, any man of any race, nationality, culture, etc. commits domestic violence. It’s not something only committed by certain people. Sometime it has a lot to do with culture. I am aware of it, but I don’t dislike Hispanic men because of it. It’s simply something a person should be aware of if they agree to marry such a person.

    My nice had a boyfriend who is Hispanic by whom she has a child. She’s in her early twenties. Her boyfriend assaulted her and my brother-in-law (her dad) had to step to him on it. Again,I don’t look on Hispanics with disdain, by knowing this exists.

    People simply grow up learning some things are okay to do. They have seen the behavior in their formative years, and come to believe it is okay to do. It’s a repeated cycle. It’s part of their way of life. Being aware is important,so as Gail said, one can know what may happen and one can make educated, wise decisions going forward.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in .

  • Gail

    February 3, 2014

    Ana,
    My mother inlaw is something else there is no doubt about that lol.I didn’t know people were speaking out in the muslim.Why do u think Imams are not speaking up about this problem?Do u think it is because they really do consider woman as second class citizens or could it be the old boys network muslim?

  • Gail

    February 3, 2014

    Spirited,
    I love comparing notes with u on the vast differences between Pakistani American Muslims verses the Homeland Pakistani Muslims it very interesting indeed.I am very happy to hear that your family will stand beside u and even told u to divorce the looser because in Pakistan the girls just have to take it normally.In my sister inlaw case since she was married with my excowife brother the inlaws had to either divorce me or take the loss.Now before u start thinking they did some great thing for me it was not that way.What happen was my sister inlaw was married before and this was her second marriage to excowife brother.Her first husband mother and her second husband mother are sisters.Well when she married her second husband there was a family feud going on and the 2 sisters were not talking(which was all a lie they were always talking and played a game with my inlaws)When my inlaws come to figure out what was going on it was to late my sister inlaw was married to second husband with baby.NOw my excowife and her parents thought they could use my sister inlaw as leverage to force my husband to divorce me to save his sisters marriage which did not work because they found out that they were mixing up with the sister that was kicked out of the family.
    I do get where u are coming from to stay with your husband.I am also guilty of doing the same thing.I stayed because of the kids to maintain a family unity.I will not say I will never divorce as I do not know.I am just trying to deal my life as best I can and I won’t lie it is hard but I really try to stay focused and see the positive not the negatives as much as I can.

  • ana

    February 3, 2014

    Okay, I think I’m catching up a bit, but will have to continue when I wake up tomorrow, Insha Allah. If I wake up… Tomorrow’s not promised to any of us.

    Laila,

    Try very hard not to listen to what your family says about you being in a polygamous marriage and being Muslim. With the help of Allah, you will eventually not care one iota what they think or how they feel.

    When I first became Muslim I became disenchanted with my family. We want people to accept us and accept that we have a new way of life. It’s not that we want them to live it, but just acknowledge that it’s our way of life now, and it’s okay. You are just banging your head against the wall Bash Head if you think they will come around. My family don’t bother me at all with regard my way of life – Islam. They don’t like it though. Do you know how I know they don’t? Allah says so. When I get a chance I will find the ayah for you. Allah swt says they will never be satisfied with us until we follow their way. So now you know. This is all new to you and it takes time. Faith doesn’t enter anyone’s heart overnight – no one’s. You are new to Islam. Don’t worry. Everything is going to be okay.

    By the way, I’m like you. I’m a cleanaholic. Laila, thank Allah swt that we are cleanaholics. Some women keep a nasty home. We need to thank Allah much He didn’t make us like that. Could you imagine?

    @Lynette, As Salaamu Alaikum,

    I missed you. I’m so happy you stopped in. I was concerned about you. I will continue to make duah that you get some energy and feel better. Allah heals us, so keep making duah that he heals you. He’s the Doer of all things. He can make you well and make life easier for you. You have to believe it.

    I’m going to go climb into bed and finish watching a movie.

    @Spirited,

    I haven’t seen any really good movie lately worth mentioning. I purchased “Captain Phillips” and intend to watch it again soon. I haven’t read your entire posts yet, but will, Insha Allah. Catch you later happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 2, 2014

    @Felicia, As Salaamu Alaikum happy

    The same as Spirited, I almost got a headache too trying to figure out the tangled web of who is who. I thought something was wrong with me. I tried to put it together, but ended up asking myself, well, is he married to a cousin or what?

    Alhumdulliah, you didn’t let the discussion that took place here about Pakistani men bashing, deter you from coming forward and stating your case. It’s the point I was trying to get across here that people speak of their experiences with polygamy and if they are dealing with culture, it is what it is. It’s not a matter of speaking about the horrors around the world. We know it exists. We’re speaking about what is happening to us here and now and the people and the cultures that are affecting us. Now, if someone want to compare it to “human trafficking in Bosnia or Ship jacking in Somalia, well i dont know I just don’t get it. It’s like comparing apples to oranges. We’re dealing with real life situations occurring in our lives here and now with certain people and cultures.

    Felicia, I feel very badly about what you are going through. It sounds your husband has changed drastically since becoming polygamous. What hurts I’m sure is that you can’t even speak Islam to him. Your mother-in-law doesn’t want to hear it. It has to be extremely frustrating. I know how I felt when I wasn’t able to connect to Alex on a spiritual level. Now, I can, but when I couldn’t it was not a good feeling at all.

    Felicia, keep doing what you’re doing. Keep turning to Allah. Turn all your attention to Him. He hears the cry of the woman who calls on him regarding her husband. He hears the pleas of the husbands and wives. Continue to be patient, persevere and pray. It’s what Allah swt tells us to do. Keep doing it. Everything will be okay. Whatever you do, don’t despair. We’re here to listen to you and try to advise you as best we can {{{hugs}}} Stay strong. Hang in there.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 2, 2014

    Oh, Gail,

    Oh my goodness, I’m trying to catch up with the comments and I just read yours. I was dying over here in laughter. You said, “My sister inlaws have been faced with polygamy and my mother inlaw OMG squealed like a pig when she come to know her daughters was being faced with polygamy.Also I should mention when it came on me and I screaming and crying hysterically confronting them she told me I should suck it up and share!When it came on her I told hubby she needs to shut the Hell up and Suck it up.hahah I hate double standards.” Gail, it’s too funny laughing

    I very much liked what you stated as well, which was: “If I can speak the truth and an American or UK,European woman will read the blog and through my writing it causes her to pause and rethink her situation or gets her to asking her Pakistani man serious questions concerning his family and polygamous marriages to get immigration then I feel my heartache I went through in some small way has been made into a positive.”

    I thought it quite interesting that a Muslim political figure Baroness Wasi spoke out about how a minority of Pakistani men view women as second class citizens and American white women as third class citizens and a piece of meat. It’s heavy what she said. She called for those (I guess the Imams) in the masjids (mosques) to speak out and act on the problem. Good luck with that one, is what I say. I haven’t know any to work on any problem.

    Doesn’t look as though I’m going to catch up here this evening. Insha Allah, tomorrows another day.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Spirited

    February 2, 2014

    Salaam everyone,

    I hope your weekend has been nice. It went by far too quickly sad

    @Muhammad, welcome back from your Hajj, congratulations on being able to make the trip as well. Insha’Allah, any prayers you have made during it will be answered. I’m a little surprised to hear that even after going with you to Hajj, your 1st wife is still having some issues and you say your marriage is under continued stress. It may just be that it will take some time — 3 years is hardly very much time to expect a huge life, mental & emotional change to take. She might just need to go through the process at her own pace, but it looks to me like she’s working on it (as you said, things ARE better), so there’s a bright side, yes?

    I would have to say that if you take more wives or not, if you can handle it or not, if your current marriage(s) will break under the strain or not, is between you and your current family and Allah, it’s not my place to suggest anything regarding that. I will say, however, that what you’re saying sounds like a threat & just a way to manipulate your current wives to suit yourself. That’s hardly a way to start yet another marriage, just on the basis of common decency and ethical treatment of another human being. Especially in using a 3rd marriage as a threat like you sound like you want to, if it were me in your wife’s place, I would be furious and demand an end to my marriage right there (but that’s just me). Well, you asked for our opinions, and that is mine happy

    @Lynnette, awwwww, please know you’re never alone! First of all, you always have Allah nearby, secondly, you are in everyone’s prayers daily for sure! I hope things get better soon and you’re able to have more time to check in here. We all miss you! <3 <3

    @Felicia, oh my goodness, I got a headache just trying to piece together that tangled web of family relationships you described towards the end of your post laughing Its kind of interesting that you've come to the state of not discussing as much as you would like to because it just ends up aggravating everything. I've felt like that too, even though the situation is pretty different (no in-law interference here). I think you have been showing lots of patience with everything so far, and Insha'Allah, things will get easier! Please continue to check in anytime you are able happy

    @Ana, hey there~ I think you spoke about judging people before. Everyone who spoke to that has voiced interesting viewpoints on it, but my sentiments can be summed up in a dua that a good friend told me once:
    "Ya Allah, give me eyes that see the best in people, a heart that forgives the worst, a mind that forgets the bad, and a soul that never loses faith. Ameen" happy

    lol oh and thanks for uh..thanking me about the "mini khutba" as you called it, laughing I wasn't even trying to do that, just pointing out things I was thinking, it makes me happy if my ramblings actually helped you out in any way! Oh and, I spent about 1 year after being married in Pakistan with the in-laws. Before that, I had gone once or twice for a few weeks during Winter Breaks from college (that was during the hunt for a marriage prospect of course).

    @Gail & Ana, (just directing towards you both since you both did ask specifically) Umm, the way my husband tells me, he says he's told her from the start that he won't be leaving me and then she's been trying various ways to manipulate him to force him to divorce me (like with deceiving him & having a kid, blackmail attempts with that kid, snooping through his phone, now the facebook stalking laughing ). This is also some of the reason he didn't go see her for all of January (he went for 2 days towards the end of the month). I'm wondering if she's changing her tune or not — I haven't really asked much about it. I believe she still hasn't told her parents the truth either (that makes me angry in a way, but whatever) happy. Dec was supposed to be when she lets him know if she wanted a divorce or not & it looks like she's not going that route. There's still the matter of her temporary visa expiring this year, but that's not my problem, & I don't care.

    @Gail, and now to answer what you asked me, being of Pakistani descent. My aunts & uncles don't interfere — it seems like my family is different than most Pakistani families. Aunts & uncles have given me their opinions and suggestions (divorce him, he doesn't deserve to have me in his life, everyone won't rest until they find someone who's worth having my light in his life, etc.), but beyond that, they aren't forcing anything on me and don't talk about it anymore after I gave my decision. Infact, they even behave pleasantly with my husband when everyone is together, even though you can see they aren't very happy about it, lol. With them, its like ok I've made my decision, they'll be there for me if things go wrong.

    Yea, I'm sure your mother-in-law would have been worried if her daughter had to face the same kind of situation, heh double standards indeed. BUT come to think of it, my mother-in-law wasn't particularly excited/happy about this either actually, although its her son. I think I mentioned it before, but she said he had disgraced their family. My father-in-law still feels so ashamed, you can see it on his face & hear a heaviness in his voice (maybe its all an act? who can say for sure). Still, I've told them many times it's not anything they need to take so seriously on themselves, they're not the ones who made the decision to make themselves judge, jury & executioner, that was their son — remember, my husband had extra-marital sex with & then married this non-muslim, older, manipulator to "punish" my parents for basically expecting too much of him ("hurt the parents through hurting the child"winking. He sure showed them not to put high expectations on him, that's for certain! laughing Playing God never ends well for anyone, I do pray that God forgives my husband, but that's up to Him of course. Though, I wouldn't mind a bit of karmic justice to hit sometime, if I'm being honest. You also mentioned you were curious about me being an American Pakistani, but you didn't really ask anything else, so do ask anything you would like, I think it would be interesting comparing our experiences — it's like a complete reversal where you're not of Pakistani descent, but spent a lot of time in Pakistan and I am of Pakistani descent, but was born & raised here and have almost nothing to do with "the motherland" laughing

    Alright, I guess I'll be off for the night. Talk to you ladies tomorrow happy Goodnight everyone

  • ana

    February 2, 2014

    Careful, we have two distinct separate Mohamed & Muhammad here writing at the same time. A new Mohamed and then a long time friend Muhammad who hasn’t been here in a year or so.

    Muhammad, As Salaamu Alaikum. Long time, no hear from you. I’m multi tasking on the blog here and doing housework at the same time. I have to come back and read you. It’s nice to have you back with us. Insha Allah, I’ll be back with my 2 cents to give you. happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ruqayyah

    February 2, 2014

    My advise you is that you look at the way the prophet pbuh dealt with the jealousy of his wives which he knew was just lart of their nature. And realise you will never havr a wife whi loves you who isn’t also jealous of your otber wives. Evej if she doesn’t show it she will feel it from time tl time.

  • Ruqayyah

    February 2, 2014

    Momhamed. You’re wives possibly at times fear YOU will push them to divorce.. marriwge is hard, plural marriage even harder. While initially a 3rd may unite them and shock them the added responsibility and pressure of a situation you created may have you looking for a 4th. Another marriage is nit he soluation to a calm, stress free life. The only way you will attain a calm stressfree life isito die and attain jannah.

  • ana

    February 2, 2014

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Peace to All,

    I’ve asked our newcomer, Mohamed, to join us over on this thread, so we all could avoid the confusion of having multiple threads going at one time.

    For those who missed Mohamed’s initial post and the replies, here is the link, so you could read them.

    http://polygamy411.com/so-he-has-a-favorite-wife/

    happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Gail

    February 2, 2014

    Ana,
    Thank u for posting my story.I know it must have taken awhile to search back through the blog so thank you.

    Laila,
    Thank you for reading my story.I think it is a testament to how far I have come.

    Ummof4,
    Don’t feel like people are attacking you it has nothing to do with that.I just want woman to understand clearly that most Pakistani men just are not living in the same world we are as Americans and European woman thats all.If a woman is going to marry a Pakistani man she needs to understand the chances of her being used for Immigration purposes and having to live with that and later on having to deal with the real possibility of living Polygamy or being faced with divorce.I feel it is an important message that needs to get out.
    Look most woman that enter into Polygamy don’t enter into this by choice it is a struggle so information of all forms should be available.I also agree with you that other cultures may not be so great either but I can not speak about other cultures because I simply do not know about them.I am married to a Pakistani man and live joint family with my inlaws and have lived years in Rawalpindi Pakistan so I speak from my own experiences.Please do not think anyone is attacking you.
    Also I want to say Pakistani people are very nice people outside their homes but we r not talking outside the home we are talking inside the home this is the difference.

  • Muhammad

    February 2, 2014

    Aslam –o- Alykum All,

    Especially greetings to Sisters
    Ana, Jenny, Fatima, Kim/Mumtaz and Gail

    I have been ready posts in the background over the past year to keep my self up to date what you ladies have been up to.

    It has been nearly 1 year since I posted here.
    Past year has been mixed bag of blessing and some trials, Alhumdolillah, Allah (SWT) has helped to get through some of the tests.
    My news:
    I and wife #1 have been on Hajj last year. It was very blessed and spiritual uplifting experience for both of us, May Allah (SWT) gives us strength to keep blessing of blessed journey.

    I made my self ONE promise there to have patience, patience and more patience. I made lot of duas to help us all have loving relationship and get over our relationship issues, May Allah (SWT) accept my duas.

    Since we were alone in that blessed place and blessed time, it helped us to over come some of our issues related to polygamous setup. However unfortunately my relationship with wife#1 is still difficult and under constant pressure; my Allah (SWT) soften her heart to accept our polygamous setup.

    My 4 girls are all fine and keep me happy, clam and sane.

    My little princess Safa with wife#2 is now 16 months started to walk and talk a little. We have been married now 3 years. Both of my wives have not spoken once in those three years.

    My relationship with wife#2 is relatively better and easy but has some ups and downs.

    When things get tough I do get frustrated and my silly brain tell me to solve the problem get wife#3. I have mentioned it before here, I know it silly but that is how my brain directs me, to bring third wife in and both will get shock of their life and unite against this new evil woman.

    To be honest some days do start searching for wife#3 and then control myself. I fear one day these 2 wives will push me in this direction. I seriously do not want to do it; I just want peace in life which I rarely gets. I do know couple of single Muslim ladies; who possibly jump to my offer to marry them; both are around my age and still single. One is British national live Pakistan, she is around 50 years old. Other is Pakistani Scottish; accountant by profession, live in Scotland, around 35. Both have exhausted their search to fine single Muslim professional man.

    I fear one day my wives will push me in their direction.

    Anyway I though to leave a post, I think I know the response I am going get about third wife. Lol

    Fi aman Allah

    Muhammad

  • Lynnette

    February 2, 2014

    As Salaamu Alaikum, and peace to all of you,

    I am checking in for continues updates, and reading the thread.

    To my Dear Sister, Laila;

    You are not a mistake. You are among those whom Allah (swt) has guided. And Allah (swt) guides whom He will. Alhamdulillah!

    To the rest of my sisters,

    I’ve missed you. I’ve had many conversations with you in my drug-fueled fog, and unfortunately, none have made it to the blog.

    I do appreciate the support and prayers of my Sisters in Faith. I feel so much less “alone” than before I knew you.

    @ Sister Ana,

    I hear you say on occasion that you wish you had the motivation to work with your licenses and to run your businesses. Sister, Consider yourself BLESSED beyond compare that you do not have to do so, unless you choose to do it.

    I am tired; the polar vortex is taking it’s toll on my physical being. MashAllah, He tasked you with a different job.

    @ Sister Kim,

    I need to read along, but my prayers are with you as you begin a new life. Allah (swt) closes the silver door sometimes only to open the golden one. Have faith, Sister.

    @ Sister Spirited,

    I haven’t forgotten that you took your tests last week. In Shaa Allah, the results are excellent.

    @ Sister Jenny,

    I’ll trade you some sleep for some energy winking

    Salaams to each of you.

  • Laila

    February 2, 2014

    Oh God Ana, I just read ur post clearly. Sorry but I get what you’re saying. Okay, some of us have a valid point due to them communicating with the culture at hand. Okay…. sorry Ive not slept the whole day. I am on spring cleaning mode. My mum just said that im an a mistake child because im a Muslim, and im in polygamy. So, im sort of killing myself by cleaning overload. Its amazing, cleaning gives me some weird sort of peace. I watch the show Cleanaholics,and must say Im a bit like that….

  • Laila

    February 2, 2014

    Dear Ana,yes you’re right. We do to a certain degree ‘judge’. But ive stopped that quite a while back. It doesn’t mean that I view everyone as a saint, but at times, I just let matters slide. Im well aware that my statement could have come across as strong but then again, I am practising positive thoughts. It helps to a certain degree.

    Ive decided to not pursue this discussion because I know what I feel and this time round, I guess Im pretty clear of my intent. Malaysian men have also a tendency towards domestic violence. Just last week a man in my country shook everyone by going amok and slashing his daughter to death. Yes, my judgement is hes a lunatic.

    But I wouldn’t say, that all Malaysian men are crazy….. anyway, this is my example and how I view matters. So it’s just my two cents worth of opinion. No offence to anyone.

  • Felicia

    February 2, 2014

    @Gail,
    Good on you for planning a vacation. You more than deserve it. Knowing your kids will be home and safe is one of the advantages of living joint family.
    @Laila Get well soon
    @Ana I the way you explained your view on the hadith about men being lopsided make so much sense.
    @ Jenny, You go girl, I wish I had a quarter of your energy
    @Aishah, With all the love and care you giving the cat all will be well InshaAllah. I have been making dua too.
    The communication in my marriage is zero to none at the moment. We used to have open communication and discuss everything. That is how I found out that his mum wanted him to marry in Pakistan and he refused, otherwise he would have married seven years ago not three. After that it was un-kept promises and sudden changes in plans. So I decided it isn’t worth the discussions. I am still the loving wife, I continue with my daily life as I was but don’t want to hear anything about his family. My hubby now listens to and acts upon everything his family asks him to apart from divorcing me. Previously he would logically think about it before he made a decision. If I listen I have to advise and my advice is always religious. My mother in law made it clear my religious advice is not welcome. So no serious life discussions just politics, the weather, school stuff, very light conversations. It does eat me up as I would like to discuss planning holidays or when I need to do Ramadaan shopping will he be here or not, I turn to Allah to give me patience. Instead of asking hubby and he says one thing and a few days or weeks later he change his mind, I plan as if he will be with us. We have never had a holiday without him and I still continue this as my daughter misses him when he isn’t with us.
    I know he has a lot of stress but I am no longer lending my ear to his woes or advising. I can only think how much fun it is in that household – my husband is the eldest and only son with six sisters younger than him, my Co is the about the age of my youngest sister in law. My husband is protective over his sisters and doesn’t allow anyone to treat or even speak to them badly. Some of them are married and live close to my mother in law, so they often stay over with their kids. I have had occasion when I arrived in Pakistan to have them stay in our room and had to sleep in another room. My husband has this habit of not letting them know he is coming, so I was not offended. In any case I never considered that to be MY room, I have my home so it was a place to sleep whilst I visited family.
    All of my husband’s family is married to cousins, either brothers and sisters children or brother in laws or sister in laws children. Actually the uncles and aunts are also cousin marriages so the children are cousins to each other. I somehow understood it as it is a regional thing. I made a few Pakistani friends in New Zealand and they are from another region, they don’t have that much cousin marriages.
    My husband is also the only one in his family who is polygamous, no cousins, aunts, uncles or grand- parents are. My Co is my mother in laws father’s brother’s granddaughter or great-granddaughter. The cousin my husband was engaged to before he married me has long since married and no other close family was prepared to give their daughter.

  • ana

    February 2, 2014

    And I think people need to use some common sense here. When a person says a “Pakistani”, one should know the person does not mean every single Pakistani person on the planet. I don’t think it’s necessary for a person to have to say, every time they speak – I don’t mean every Pakistani. I don’t mean every Arab and every whatever or who ever. Pleeeeeze, give me a break rolling eyes

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 2, 2014

    @Laila,

    No offense taken. Most of those speaking here speak from personal experience with polygamy and what they have dealt with with regard to their spouses and people of their spouses culture as well. Some may become offended by it and choose to believe and only see the goodness in everyone. If it’s what they do, so be it.

    I will be the first to say I judge. Everyone judges, but it’s vogue today to say, “I don’t judge.” It sounds good, but it’s an untruth. People judge all day long, everyday. I love the saying, “If it walks like a duck; quacks like a duck; looks like a duck, it’s a duck.”

    There is nothing wrong with judging, if one judges correctly. Allah swt tell us throughout the Quran to “judge” with what He has given us – the Quran. Nonetheless, Laila, if you say and many others say you and they don’t judge – Alhumdulliah.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 2, 2014

    @Gail,

    It took me a while, but I was able to find the post in which you related your story in depth. I’ve placed a link here for those who haven’t read it and would like to:

    http://polygamy411.com/have-you-made-your-spouse-your-lord/#comment-44852

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Laila

    February 2, 2014

    Dear Ummof4, I totally agree with you on your statement. I too in the past used to be judgemental on pockets of certain culture in my country, and then along the way, I obtained some form of awareness. I am of the opinion that being judgemental and only picking certain cases based on a group isn’t my style. There are many cases around the world that if we look at it shocks us. It makes us reevaluate so many things. Nevertheless, positivity and being non-judgemental based on ones culture is the way for me. No offence to anyone here girls.

    Salam

  • ana

    February 2, 2014

    I strongly agree with two things the coalition minister Baroness Warsi said:

    “You can only start solving a problem if you acknowledge it first.” and

    “Cultural sensitivity should never be a bar to applying the law.”

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 2, 2014

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Peace to All,

    In line with what we’ve been discussing, I thought the following article would be appropriate to share here:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/9275179/Some-Pakistani-men-see-white-women-as-fair-game-says-Baroness-Warsi.html

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Laila

    February 2, 2014

    Dear Gail… after reading ur post i just felt so bad for u. Tq for sharing. I know it might have been tough but i appreciate it.

    Salam

  • ummof4

    February 2, 2014

    As-salaamu Alaikum and hello to the ladies,

    There is no reason for anyone to attack my comments. I was just stating that all Pakistani people do not have the same character just as all people from any culture or religion do not have the same character. For every Pakistani horror story you can give me, I can give you a horror story from any other country or culture. For the record, I am familiar with cultures around the world and have traveled around the world experiencing different religions and cultures. My family, friends and associates live around the world as well.

    May Allah help us all to be the best that He has created us to be.

  • Laila

    February 2, 2014

    Dear all, yes being in direct contact with the Pakistani community does give us an idea of how irresponsible, mean the men can be. Well, that’s everyones take. I just don’t want to start on being negative. There are loads of cases out there if we dig up, it will just horrify us all. So sorry but judging someones culture and saying its not right, isn’t my place to say. I don’t want to be negative towards others due to their culture. Its not my style.

    Salam.

  • ana

    February 2, 2014

    Not for nothing, my mom has lived near some Pakistani people, a few families, and she has told me about the many arguments between them and their wives that she has witnessed outside the homes. She spoke of specifically how badly the men treat their wives. She said a couple of them are married to American women. I never asked my mom anything about this, nor told her anything about the discussions we have had on the blog about Pakistani men. She volunteered the information. No one is saying that every single Pakistani man is this way. These simply are some stories. Now I’m back to sleep, Inshallah.

    @Spirit,

    If I’m not mistaken, you said although you are Pakistani, you’ve never been to Pakistan, right?

    This is an open house no need to knock just come on in.

  • Jenny

    February 2, 2014

    @ Ummof4,

    Please read my post. At the end I say it is their culture. I mention it just so happens they are Muslim, because they are! The only Muslims I interact with are Pakistani’s. I am in the part of the city called “Little Pakistan.” I don’t know any other Muslims, except two Egyptian men that work for me.

    I also believe I am one of the few women here actually happily married to their Pakistani husband, bli ayan hara.

    I clearly differentiate it is the culture, not the religion. It is the way they practice it. If there were no forced marriages in Pakistan, then that means there are no more honor killings. You may want to read up on that Sweetie and get your blinders off. Don’t say it doesn’t happen because the men in my community was trying to FORCE me to represent one of their own who has had his ass in jail the past year because his daughter would not stay married to the man her father forced her to marry. Her father slaughtered the family of the man she loved and wanted to marry.

    I don’t profess to be an expert in Islam, but I’ve earned my degree, just like Fail, in being married to Pakistani men.

    Now I’m going back to bed…

  • Gail

    February 2, 2014

    Spirited,
    I am trucking along thanks.My inlaws are not back yet from Pakistan but I do plan to travel and leave the kids with them.I am wanting to do a Sandals vacation or Vegas.I do feel alot stronger mentally and emotionally these days.My hubby blows up at me anytime I dare to mention excowife or her family.I will be honest it totally disgust me not to be able to talk about it but I am leaving the issue and he will have to deal with the fallout from the children in the future if they want to see excowife.I on the other hand am getting more independent everyday and waiting with baited breath when I can get on the road and start banking money in my own personal account.Also I have been listening to self help videos on youtube.I have been relaxing my brain alot lately.Thanks for noticing.I am also curious if your husband is going to tell your cowife that he is not going to leave u because it is very Obvious she is very curious about u.I would think after everything she has said about u out of fear and jealousy to hubby about u that she might be a little fearful to come forward and try to talk to friend u on FB is my guess thinking maybe u would not friend her it is natural.My guess also is hubby is not paying her enough attention.Since you girls are kinda young I hope you both can learn to live in harmony for the sake of your family unit.I have to say with u being a Pakistani woman I knowing that Pakistani woman DO NOT accept polygamy as a general rule how you deal with your family and wondering do u feel pressure from your aunts and cousins to deal your husband and not divorce or since u live in USA and u are an American do they advise u to divorce.I am curious how u being an American Pakistani differs from being a woman in Pakistan.My sister inlaws have been faced with polygamy and my mother inlaw OMG squealed like a pig when she come to know her daughters was being faced with polygamy.Also I should mention when it came on me and I screaming and crying hysterically confronting them she told me I should suck it up and share!When it came on her I told hubby she needs to shut the Hell up and Suck it up.hahah I hate double standards.

  • Gail

    February 2, 2014

    ummof4,

    I know u mean well to take up for Pakistani people.I used to take up for my husband and his family all the time.Even one of my dear male Pakistani friends told me straight my husband was married and not divorced and tried and tried over yrs to tell me but I nope I would not listen to him.Well guess what he was right and my point is this as much as u want to believe these people are so great the real truth is you just can not generalize the culture.You just don’t know what goes on behind closed doors.When u meet them out u can never tell they are masters at manipulating people.YES they are very nice people YES they love their family YES they will help people out YES i could go on all day long about how Pakistani people look and seem to be model citizens.The reality is unless u live in the culture and understand it really is a male dominated society.Look my husband and inlaws have refused to take my excowife back for one simple reason and that reason is that she told the family secrets.In Pakistan telling your family secrets will get u at the very least an @SS beating and at the most killed.In my excowife case she found herself as my husband likes to say kicked off.Anyway I am not trying to argue with u but I again I have lived more than a decade in a real Pakistani family that until my husband has never had anyone in their family live outside Pakistan and to be frank I every single Pakistani male I have met are the same and believe me I know Alotttttt.I mean no disrespect towards you but the truth is the truth.If u want to defend someone defend the woman who’s lives were ruined by these men who knowingly used and abuse them everyday behind closed doors.

    Ana,

    I want to also mention as u well know I have lived in a real live Pakistani family from Pakistan for more than a decade and I am telling u the honest to G.D truth here.These Pakistani men that say they went back to Pakistan and their mother married them off without their consent that is the biggest bullcrap LIE EVER.These men know growing up what is expected of them they don’t get anything thrown at them after the fact.They know darn well they will marry a cousin in Pakistan period the end.They see Pakistani woman as personal property like a land or a house or a dog.They also try that crap on their foreign wives and depending on the wife and how much she will take is how far it will go.In Jenny’s case she has put her foot down with her hubby and flat told him no but hell no.I used to be a huge pushover and let my husband control me 100%.Now I am down 50% and declining everyday thanks G.D.I feel terrible to talk about Pakistani men so negative but dang it is the truth.If I can speak the truth and an American or UK,European woman will read the blog and through my writing it causes her to pause and rethink her situation or gets her to asking her Pakistani man serious questions concerning his family and polygamous marriages to get immigration then I feel my heartache I went through in some small way has been made into a positive.

  • Aishah 2014

    February 1, 2014

    salaams all.thank you Laila my cat came home today ..traumatized skinny and not eating still..like a failure to thrive case..and then later she started eating a bit thank u Allah..sorry u may or may not think its funny.the way the older cat acted when the young kitten jumped in reminds me of me when I found out about my very young secret wife Co.I lost weight,couldn’t eat,etc.not a problem now….Ana thank you.yep I was like shaytan all over me.guess I didn’t turf his yard leaving or he would have let me know.I thought later well that would be real classy Aishah with that bit of fitnah.I felt angerbut good in fact didn’t cause harm and wasn’t angry by time I got home I went to lecture by new AlMagrib lectures person a woman Yazmin…will look up.it was good one part was like a post we had about making your husband your God.. about how we r disappointed when turning to the created instead of Creator,how to Put Allah first in our heart.it was”jewels of Koran”..now they had question answer part anonymous.I put in question about polygamy and can u believe she completely skipped it.she was selling signing books too, but basically I think they wanna avoid the questions….oh I saw Co other day. .hadn’t seen for months since..reminded me that no matter what her motives are,doesn’t matter if you are first or 2 nd there are hard stressful things to go through.her skin, which had cleared up somewhat,was again getting very bad with acne,would imagine stress does that…not easy no matter what number..

  • ana

    February 1, 2014

    I forgot to mention that some of the ladies here have said their husbands went home to Pakistan and when they arrived were told by their mum that they had to marry their cousins. Therefore, it was either forced by mum or wasn’t forced and the men were straight up liars.

    It’s true there are polygamous Muslim men in America who straight up lie about their marriages, as well. It has been discussed here, as well.

    There is no good reason for them to lie this way, yet they do. Polygamy is permissible, yet they carry on like married men with mistresses committing adultery. It’s a lot of what’s happening. Straight up.

    I need to add, in all fairness to everyone, Gail and Jenny both are married to Pakistani men. They both have been in polygamous marriages. They both are dealing with family in Pakistan. They are entitled to speak here on this blog about their marriages and Pakistan, if it pleases Allah.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 1, 2014

    One of the main reasons we speak so much about Pakistanis here on this blog and that they marry foreigners and then go back home to marry cousins is because the majority of the women in polygamous marriages who come to this blog and speak are foreigners married to Pakistanis and it has happened to them. It’s factual. It is why we have written a few Posts on it.

    Most of the searches in which people reach this blog is through the search words Pakistani men marry foreigners.

    @Spirited,

    Has your husband come clean with his other wife yet? He had last said he intended to do it in December. It’s February now. Or has the deceit and lies continued?

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 1, 2014

    @Spirited,

    Nice little Kutbah (sermon) you gave. I was tracking. You hit on a serious point. Allah doesn’t need us. We need Him. He doesn’t owe us any answers. The answers are in Quran or ask Him directly. The way to go, Spirited. thumbs up I like kutbah’s. I need and like reinforcement. I need to hear it. It’s why I like to rehearse it here as much as I can, as well. It’s for me, as much as for anyone else. I want to be immersed in it.

    I dunno about what you said regarding Pakistani people though. We have a lot of evidence here that quite a few (an understatement) of the men marry foreigners for Green Cards and then go back home to Pakistan to marry cousins (becoming polygamous). It may not have happened in your family, but it’s apparent it’s happening.

    @Gail,

    Yes, you do sound like you’re doing way better. Alhumdulliah (all praise is due to Allah). You’re something else, Gail. Say what? She can generalize till pig fly. laughing Well, we know that aint gonna happen laughing

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ummof4

    February 1, 2014

    As-salaamu Alaikum and hello to all,

    Rafat, I do not know if you are Muslim or not. If you are Muslim, it is necessary for you to accept that if Allah makes something permissible, we cannot hate it or think it is unfair, discriminatory or backwards. If you are not Muslim, there is not much I can say to you. You have a right to your opinion, Allah gives us limited free will to either accept or reject His revelation.

    Jenny and Gail, I understand that you have both married men from Pakistan, and you consider yourselves experts on Muslims and Pakistan. However, I believe that it is not possible to be an expert on Islam unless you are a Muslim. Islam is about much more than facts, it is also about submission to the will of Allah, Our Creator and Sustainer.
    I have lots of friends from Pakistan who were born and reared there but now live in the United States. They were never taught to be deceitful and greedy for money and material possessions. They do not force their children to marry their cousins and follow Islam as true Muslims as best they can.

    I am not from Pakistan, but I am tired of so many women here saying negative things about Pakistanis who live here and who live in United States. We don’t talk about the lying, deceitful, money-hungry Americans who mistreat their wives and have numerous girlfriends.

    That’s it.

    May Allah help us all.

  • Spirited

    February 1, 2014

    Hey again!

    @Gail, I forgot to reply!
    That’s a good point you brought up — it could indeed be that my husband’s 2nd wife is curious. I really haven’t thought of it that way. I wonder though, why not just message me directly, since she’s already found me on FB? I don’t have her last name, and I don’t even know if she’s going by some other name altogether, so I haven’t searched for her.

    But anyway, I’ve got enough on my mind I guess. It would be nice if she was coming to terms with everything and moving towards not causing problems. That sure would take a load off mine & my husband’s shoulders/mind. happy

    You seem to be in brighter spirits lately too. I hope everything continues to go well for you big grin Ok well I’m gonna go chill for a bit. Catch you ladies later~

  • Gail

    February 1, 2014

    Laila,

    I have to comment on what u stated about Pakistani men and and getting a bad wrap.I see it differently in the fact that although I agree with you in the fact that it is petty to look at people and their cultures and judge them I think it does stand to reason that we should judge societies and cultures that teach their children to lie to make a profit and to get what they want and that is Pakistani esp.. the men.My husband admits it is a culture thing that people just lie there.I wish I had known that before I married him because it would have been a deal breaker for me.Morals should always be held in high regards.Let me be clear everyone makes mistakes etc.. but to outright deceive and lie for personal gain(and u can see it so much with the Pakistani men online looking for a foreign wife for greencard so they can get their entire family to USA.I guess it is pretty clear at this point I have no great love for Pakistani men or the culture.However I really like the woman and feel sorry for them as I feel they are trapped in a male dominated society.Everyone has their own opinion and thats my 2 cents worth.lol

  • Spirited

    February 1, 2014

    Salaam everyone,

    I just came back from a lunch with a cousin & some other family. I definitely had way too much dessert laughing The other day, a woman thought I was mid-twenties, 25 I think she asked, when I told her I’m 33, she thought I was making fun of her =O. That was a cute encounter, in my opinion big grin

    @Rafat, hello there! I’ve run across other sentiments that are very much like what you feel around the internet before. I like to think of it as a sweet thought, but misguided (or perhaps just not too informed). I can’t really tell from the sound of your writing, so pardon me if you are indeed Muslim.

    Muslims are supposed to care more about Allah’s rules and His guidelines in living a good life (via the Quran). The answers to people’s questions are in there. If you don’t find the answer to something you seek, you can ask Allah directly, and He may guide you. Or, you could always ask Him when you see Him one day, as everyone will winking but until then, Muslims should try their best to follow the Quran, always asking Allah to help them become the best Muslims they can be. Allah has His reasons for everything, and He doesn’t need to answer to humans, His creations. He may if He wants to, and He has already answered so much over mankind’s history. We need HIM, He doesn’t need us. But like I said, you can always ask Him directly.

    So, it might look like “injustice” in polygamy to you, based on whatever you’ve seen with other people’s situations. Here’s the thing, people aren’t perfect, so its likely that many (most?) men aren’t doing things as well as they should be, but that isn’t because of Islam allowing polygamy. That’s because of the lack of the human in following the guidelines set by God. And that’s about all I wanted to point out about that happy (Also, just for your information, I believe there are places that women marry more than 1 man — I’ve heard about it before, but I don’t remember where).

    @Jenny, you raised a point I just wanted to speak to, no offence intended. You said many times that your husband’s children in Pakistan are pretty much “forced” or destined to marry cousins? Maybe that’s the way your husband’s family does things, but it’s far from the way most Pakistanis, and especially not the way Muslims do things. Nowhere is it a requirement that cousins marry each other, Islam itself forbids forced marriages of any kind, so your husband’s family are definitely in the wrong.

    I know for myself, both sides of my family cover the entire economic spectrum. My father’s side has filthy rich people all the way to the poor (all in the US), and my mother’s side has people from rich to the poor, barely hanging on (all in Pakistan). You would think “cousin marriages” would be prominent among the poor — but not ONE person is married to a cousin in either side of my family. (there hasn’t been any polygamy for generations either, until my husband laughing ). So, to me, that’s the most ridiculous thing ever (being forced to marry a cousin). Please don’t hold generalizations about muslims like that happy

    You made me think, it really does suck how one bad apple can ruin the whole bunch — like you said, but that’s the way people are these days (especially men). They take what they like, try to manipulate things to suit themselves best, and say “screw religion.” So many muslim men (and some women) quite LITERALLY say they will handle their affairs with God when the time comes! To them, God’s wrath is no big deal — its as if all the warnings God has given in the holy books through the ages, including the Quran, all the stories of tests God has given to humanity over time — everything, doesn’t matter in the least. Its very scary, to me, how little people care these days. Very scary how often I see concerted efforts to turn people away from God altogether (atheists & agnostics), and that its working! People only seem to “get spiritual” when something goes wrong, then as soon as the problem has passed, they’re back to forgetting God and embracing their materialistic life… /sigh

    I have to run for the time being, I’ll be back later on. Some interesting conversations lately happy

  • ana

    February 1, 2014

    @Aishah, As Salaamu Alaikum,

    I could imagine it was quite awkward for you waiting outside. Yes, Satan jumped on you. I could imagine the thoughts that would have been going through my mind had it happened to me.

    When things like it happen, we get a clear indication of where we are in dealing with this lifestyle. Evaluate how you felt that neither of them got down there quick enough and someone was peeking through the bedroom window. What went through your mind.

    These small incidences that occur should be gauges for us to measure where we’re at in acceptance of this lifestyle. It’s all good. It helps you move forward.

    You recognize Satan got a hold of you with his whispers. You did good. We learn to recognize the whispers and then the next step is learning not to act on them. happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Laila

    February 1, 2014

    Dear Aishah, no you’re not a bad cat mummy! It happens. New kittens are usually infested with all sorts of viruses that can harm our big babies at home. I recommend that you ask your vet for a supplement for ur girl. I have a gel based supplement that I give twice a week to my darling.

    That’s why when I feed the strays near my home, I make sure my darling isn’t near them. Because viruses can also be spread through air. Also clean her cage / bed / toys up with disinfectants. I used Dettol. Don’t know if you guys have that in your country. I cleaned his cage and mopped his room up. Yes we have a room for me fatty happy I even soaked his eating bowls up in soapy water because the rescued kitten in the past ate and drank from his.

    No worries, If you keep giving her words of encouragement, she will surely get better. Animals sometimes need extra love and attention when they are down and out. So sorry, you have to be on duty quite a bit. I used to even place fatty in his cat bed and check on him at night when we are asleep. I used to wake up and check his temperature.

    I pray your girl gets well happy

    Fatty here sends his love too happy

    Salam

  • Laila

    February 1, 2014

    Dear Samira, about you touching about the man marrying another and indirectly asking his first wife to “suck it up”…. Do you really know what you are saying? Have you done your homework, meaning what’s your research methodology? Is it based on what you’ve ‘seen’ or what you’ve ‘read’ or is it based on concrete facts and figures. Sorry but you hit a nerve with me.

    How sure are you that when someone plans to even marry for the first time they consult family and friends? Sorry in my case I didn’t. Because Im well aware of what I want and where Im headed. I dont need fair weather friends or problematic family members who themselves can’t handle anything in their lives to advice me.

    You said that the first wife has rights. Most of the time she doesn’t take it to the Syariah Courts due to ‘people / soceity’ advising her. Really?…. I think most times the first wives don’t take it to the courts because as angry and depressed they are, they know deep down that, that isn’t the way to settle matters. So can I take my hubbs to the Syariah Courts? After all for the first few years of marriage he didn’t even stay NIGHTS with me? I had to give in because of his children with her. In fact, I only met my HUSBAND during lunch / dinner etc. So can i be the b**** and damn well just demand my rights? I didn’t go to any court. I just compromised and took it in my stride. Maybe to some women on this blog, I could be a dingbat for doing so, but guess what, I couldn’t care less. What would I achieve? Seriously? I would only add more stress to my husband, and HER. WE all don’t need that. Trust me.

    How if the husband has given time and has asked properly and yet due to reasons of jealousy the wife refuses? During this time also the wife doesn’t sleep in the same room / bed for years thank to wanting to keep an eye on the kids? So you rather the man take it / swallow it and feel lonely?

    Being patient is a two way street my dear. We always b**** about the man being an a**. But never once do we as women reflect on our behaviour towards our husbands. We think we have done so much. Guess what, the man too has done quite a bit. Im very grateful for my marriage. Yes at times I have it really hard and I tell the girls here. But on the contrary, Im blessed. Ive got a husband who brings back the bacon, helps me out with favours around the house and even other duties, and takes me for holidays. He’s even made me his wife legally. Or else I could end up being a mistress for life, who’s to tell.

    There’s no way of knowing what’s going to happen in our lives. I for one never planned to get involved in polygamy and neither did my husband. Neither was my co-wife either. We are all in this situation and we are trying to overcome any challanges faced and also work with our tempers and ego with one another. Not all first wives are treated badly. In my case, due to marrying me, hubbs has given her more and I know. I just don’t care anymore because giving a damn is not healthy. It shows what a shallow woman I am too.

    Many may pass judgements and say that they dislike polygamy. That’s their take on the matter. It’s just like I dislike gay and lesbians demanding all sorts of silly demands and how they are to be treated ‘special’. But then again that’s my take on things. But don’t make silly judgements. A man can be involved with one legally and yet….. keep a woman on the side. Men can be beasts at times. But I agree with certain things that Jenny has said. Put down rules or things that is your pet peeve to your partner. Some women are very clear cut, s*** hits the fan and shes out of the marriage. Some like me still get hit by the s*** but I want to work things out. I never liked divorce.

    Before marrying me, I said this, “tell your wife about me”. Many would say, I would have done that to spite her. Well I did that to start off my marriage on the right footing. Even back then in my ignorance on Islam, I just knew I won’t tolerate a secret marriage.

    We can all look at Pakistani people and pity them and wish they had more sense. But do you know something? Looking down on others and judging them based on your own values doesn’t amount to much. In the past I used to always look at the Nigerian women in my country [ students ] that wear the hijab and wonder why are they dressed such? But nowdays Ive realized my stupidity. How can I ask such questions? That’s just the way they dress, it’s also their culture and they feel that that’s their identity. Do you think other races around the world are angels? Sorry but sometimes I feel Pakistani people are really brought down badly. Come on, that’s just the way they roll. Who are we to judge and say stuff? ….

    There are many parts of the world where children are threatened when they are on their way to school. Many parts of the world has yet to attain peace even within their country. Poverty till today is still an issue. It’s also an issue in my country. I guess, or my take is, some countries need more time to be at the stage of being peaceful or successful.

    If you plan to get married, lay your rules down and go with the flow. Over-thinking is only going to ruin your happiness. But along the way, when you do encounter polygamous couples, please, don’t look at one side of the argument. Look at it from ALL angles then make ur decision / conclusion.

    Many love to gain sympathy. Many women love the thought that family and friends will support them against the new b**** wife and hubbys bad ways. Sometimes, we need to stop and rethink about our conduct as well. Is having temper tantrums healthy? What would it achieve? Is involving kids a good thing? It is good to also conclude that all polygamous men can’t keep their private parts in their pants and are always having women everywhere? Or men who don’t consult their wives and marry anyway are demons from hell? Or that the second / tird / fourth woman involved in the polygamous set up dumb for putting herself there in the first place?

    I think we are very very quick to place judgements. We simply love to make assumptions and from these assumptions, people are run down. Either way, ure still a devil because ure polygamous.

    Just saying…..

    Salam

  • ana

    February 1, 2014

    Rafat,

    I don’t know why Allah permits polygamy and I don’t need to know. I only need to know He permits it and I accept it.

    This is an open house. No need to know. Just come on in.

  • Rafat

    February 1, 2014

    Sorry for all the typos but I guess you got what I wanted to say. It’s so heartbreaking to see such injustice and cruelty to women and men I feel so sad and upset about all these injustices done to women that sometimes I cry for long time sad
    I have lived and seen very closely how cruel it is. How you are brainwashed to feel guilty
    I was looking for answers for longtime and found that there are none except that this is what Allah wants!

  • Rafat

    February 1, 2014

    It’s very simple. If you fall in love with two men you cannot marry both of them but a man can do this. How is it fair how do you think that you are being treated as an equal like all human beings should be?
    Also if someone gives reasons like there are more women than men etc then how about countries where there are more men? Shouldn’t then women start taking more than one husband? If not why?
    Also sexually, a woman has ability to have multiple orgasms so she can satisfy more than one man but a man has to do divide his time between wives and go to other wife. Who will protect his kids and wife if someone breaks into their house?
    Polygyny is not only violating women’s rights but also the men’s rights and it’s also discrimination based on persons economic conditions. A rich man can easily follow rules of providing separate residents for more wives so he can easily have more wives now hiw is that fai to all hard working Muslim men who re not economically well of. They can hardly find one wife and if you consider demographics they even have to stay unmarried just because they a poor. So basically one man exercising their Islamic rights is violating other mans basic human rights. The right to have a life partner and right to reproduce and have kids. sad
    Again I request you to please publish my comment.

  • ana

    February 1, 2014

    @Rafat, Welcome

    Thank you for imputing. I can only say in reply to your your remark is that Allah did not permits something that violates women rights, nor that causes discrimination against women. Allah permits polygamy, which means it it GOOD. There will be women and men who will accept polygamy; they will accept and believe what Allah says. The only people who are brainwashed are the ones who refuse to accept polygamy and speak negatively about it. Those are the people brainwashed against the TRUTH. They refuse to accept Allah and all He says.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Laila

    February 1, 2014

    Dear Rafat,how is it that my rights are being violated? Care to explain? How am i brainwashed?

  • Rafat

    February 1, 2014

    Just want to say that polygyny violates women’s rights and it’s clear discrimination against women. It’s very clear unless you are brainwashed into blindly believing otherwise.
    I hope you will publish my comment.
    Thanks!

  • ana

    February 1, 2014

    @Jenny,

    I get worked up when people make Islam, which is a sensible religion, sound crazy. Some want to scare straight Afraid polygamous men or those contemplating becoming polygamous by saying those men, on the Day of Judgement, would be raised up lopsided, if they were not “just” to their wives.

    It’s like someone saying, for instance, Hey Bob, if you don’t start treating your wives right, on the Day of Judgement, you’re going to look like handicapped Joe down the street. How does the person think it makes handicapped Joe feel? Now, handicapped Joe down the street who may already feel depressed, upset, and discontented with his condition, now feels worse. He’s like wow, I’m really in bad shape. He begins to feel badly about the way he looks because a straight person in this world would be raised up on the Day of Judgement looking handicapped like him (Joe). It’s Bob’s punishment.

    The people who rattle off the saying about lopsidedness don’t consider that Allah is a Just, Oft-Forgiving, Merciful God. They don’t think that Allah considers ALL/EACH AND EVERYONE of a persons deeds when He decided who will enter the Fire and who will enter Paradise/Jannah. Allah says those whose good (righteous) deeds outweigh their bad deeds will enter Jannah/Paradise. Again, it’s not about a husband and a wife. It’s about Allah and worshiping and serving Him in totality.

    People need to stop making Islam sound crazy. If someone wants to put the fear of God into someone, why not repeat what Allah says in the Quran that is TRUTH. Allah is specific about what to expect and what will happen on the day of Judgement, so there is no question and no doubt. It can’t be refuted.If it’s not enough to put fear in a person, nothing will. It’s all I’m saying.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Jenny

    February 1, 2014

    @ Ana,

    You raised a very strong point about the handicapped comparison…

    Do you think He could make me skinny instead of lopsided???? laughing

  • Jenny

    February 1, 2014

    @ Samira,

    I understand what you are trying to say. I’m a firm believer on how you start out your marriage is how it will be your entire life together. Once you start out on the wrong foot, it is hard to change once that horse leaves the gate.

    When I married, it wasn’t like most marriages here. There was no schedule, no relationship, nothing between them but three kids and her living in the home in Pakistan taking care of his mother. I am not Muslim, so this entire thing seemed so wrong and unbelievable on so many levels. There were several reasons I entertained this charade: 1) I couldn’t chase hubby away despite how hard I tried; 2) He is a very honest and good man; 3) Yes, I loved him; 4) And I think this was one of the big ones ~ I would be the legal wife. There was never any registered marriage nor any nikkah in writing in Pakistan, nor was there any evidence of her existence here in this country. If I wasn’t the legal and only wife here in the U.S., all deals would have been off. For the first few years of my marriage I was plagued with dreams of her waltzing into my life and taking everything I worked for so hard!

    I think it is not accurate to say I was a secret wife in the beginning. No, he didn’t tell them about me as he said it would create huge family problems. Since she is on the other side of the world ~ she’s always been a non-entity to me. It didn’t bother me that they had no idea about me because I knew someday they would and my peace would end. It didn’t take long for them to find out about me ~ he told them. My peace, as I predicted, ended. I kinda still yearn for the old days.

    He divorced her over the phone. Actually, it is almost comical that you can divorce someone over the phone! Just like their marriage did not seem real to me, neither did their divorce. Nothing changed. She still lives in the home and takes care of his mother, her aunt. They live in the village, and her parents are dead. Her leaving the house seemed kind of cruel to me. What difference does it make that she lives in the house? It’s not like he is ever there and when the urge strikes for hubby to want to see his mother, his plans include bringing me.

    I look at my marriage and see such a black and white contrast and it makes me scratch my head how things can be one way with my family and he is totally another way with those in Pakistan. Yet, if he treated us equally, I wouldn’t have been in this marriage in the first place, as I was not going to live polygamy in the carnal sense. Here I run the show, make the decisions, work, we have physical displays of affection, take vacations, he buys me beautiful things, always tells me how much he loves me ~ and shows it no less, etc…. His marriage to his cousin included none of the above. My husband tried to explain it to me once. He said in third world countries, marriages aren’t based on love or feelings. It is based on survival. Interesting way to put it. Perhaps that explains why I see so many Pakistani men in my community marrying American women. “Feelings” win in the end.

    Our children are treated differently too. He is so affectionate and consumed with our gaggle of children, yet, he leaves his in a country where they are subject to getting shot just for going to school/college! They are destined to marry cousins and repeat what has gone on for generations before. It makes me scratch my head! Our daughter, Hadassah, hubby has great plans for ~ even moreso than for our sons. He has no plans, never mind great plans, for his daughter in Pakistan other than being forced to marry a cousin. I have respect from my husband and I wonder what kind of respect they get??? To me it appears my husband did his family duty (reproducing to add to the gene pool) and got the hell out of Dodge. He never lived with them ~ ever.

    I never interfered with those back in Pakistan until the past two years or so. My husband has told them to listen to whatever I say. Honestly, that makes me feel uncomfortable. What if I didn’t have their best interest at heart? The oldest son and I have deep talks. He has no desire to marry a cousin, which made my husband nearly crap his pants! The other side of the coin is they (the kids) are starved for attention and try really hard. Despite what hour I go on Facebook, they are there waiting and watching for me ~ which seems a little creepy at first ~ but I’m used to it now.

    My spin on the polygamy I see (not making a blanket statement ~ just what I see with my own eyes) is it is a very cruel life. How can two wives be treated so differently? It’s not just my husband. I bought a medallion yesterday from a Pakistani gentleman and he has two wives. One lives with him and the other lives in Long Island, plus he has a girlfriend. Again, one gets treated one way, the other not fairing so good. I get it ~ it is better to be married than commit adultery; you would have the same problems in monogamy. I get it. What I don’t see is why these women would want to put themselves right smack in drama central? I don’t look at polygamy through a religious or textbook lense ~ I look at it from the point of an attorney who generally helps some of these women for free to get out of such repressive situations. Unfortunately, 100% of the women in these situations are Muslims and Pakistani ~ because that is my neighborhood. And yes, I know it is more cultural than religious (even though they think it is religious). Also, you can judge the entire lot because of one bad apple. I get it. But I don’t like it ~ not one bit!

  • Spirited

    February 1, 2014

    Hey everyone, Salaam to all

    Dear Ana, lol. I guess that was you about the comment regarding who would care about looks on Judgement Day? laughing I’m not talking about the validity of Hadiths, or if anyone should take them as importantly as Quran, or whatever.

    I only pointed out that since there IS talk about how people will look on Judgement Day in the Quran, then quite obviously, how one looks on Judgement Day is important in some manner, though Allah best knows. happy So it wouldn’t make sense to say ‘who cares’. Just pointing that out since it stuck in my head, even though I didn’t remember who the conversation was between!

    Thumbs up for your vigilance as always~ Talk to you later! <3

  • Gail

    February 1, 2014

    Samira,
    I don’t know if u are in a Polygamous Marraige or not but the way u write I can only assume u are not.Listen u can generalize things until pigs fly but unless u have lived in the lifestyle u can not begin to imagine.It really is like trying to explain to a blind person what color yellow or blue looks like understand?Yes u can imagine it but believe me the feelings and the depth of emotion that u feel really is impossible to understand unless u have been through it.The pain that u feel is like a knife in the heart.Understand what I just said it FEELS like a knife in the heart.It hurts so bad and then to top it all off when u think u are going to just die u have to look upon your children’s faces.When the truth came out with me I had to carry a towel around for months to cry into so my children would not see my tears.I just told them it was my allergies acting up.Now try to feel how a woman can go from that to accepting of polygamy.It is so not easy and it really is very hard but once u get over that huge hurdle something inside changes.You become stronger inside and u actually start to feel empowered or at least I do and after awhile u start to become happy again.Polygamy is not a big deal it is just another way to live and it really is a lifestyle for secure woman.Insecure woman I doubt would stay in polygamy because it would drive her to a mental breakdown.Now in saying that can an insecure woman start out in Polygamy and become Secure through the process YES u betcha most of the woman here on the blog are living proof of that.I’m just saying

  • Gail

    February 1, 2014

    Spirited,

    I wouldn’t see it as really a bad thing your cowife is FB stalking u as it seems she is interested in you.For some reason I don’t feel your cowife is really so bad.I get that she really is not very accepting of polygamy but as time goes by and she sees that hubby is not going to leave you and she becomes more secure in her relationship with hubby she may chill out.My point is there is always hope so don’t give up hope all will go well in the end and stay positive.I really believe Polygamy is a huge insecurity for most woman and it really takes time to settle down and figure out they don’t have to constantly fight for hubby to divorce the other wife.Polygamy is all about acceptance in my opinion.
    As far as my inlaws they are not back yet from Pakistan I expect them back in March.I am looking forward to them coming back because I plan on traveling alot this season and I will get my pound of flesh from them to babysit the kids while I enjoy traveling.

  • ana

    February 1, 2014

    After all, if you’re going to use something to put fear in a person, speak of something that Allah speaks of in the Holy Quran that one knows is a FACT.

    There are handicap people out here. How do anyone think it makes them feel to be compared to someone who will be in the Hellfire. Yes, there are blind people out there, as well. Allah swt says He will raise some people up blind because they were blind in this world and He let us know that it was not their eyes that were blind.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    February 1, 2014

    @Spirited, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    You are absolutely correct; Allah swt does describe in the Quran what people would look like on the Day of Judgement. No where in the Quran does Allah speak of any person being raised up lopsided, crooked, or paralyzed. So, yes I say who cares if someone looks that way, he or she is going to the Hellfire anyhow, as there will be no lopsided, crooked, paralyzed people in Paradise. I go with what Allahs says, which is MOST important to me. He, Allah, who is God says He left out NOTHING that is important in the Quran. He says the Quran is replete in knowledge. Everything is in there. Now, if there are others who think Allah told a fib or didn’t know what He was talking about. WELL, it’s all I can say.

    I am totally aware that there are some who associate the words of Allah along with a bunch of sayings men went back and grabbed from others and say you can’t have one without the other. It screams SHIRK! SHIRK is all over it. Hadiths are not Allah’s Books. People have got it twisted. Allah has no partners. Nothing is equal to Him. Allah stands alone. Allah is ONE.

    The Prophet Muhammad’s (PBUH) sunnah (way of life) was the Quran.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Spirited

    February 1, 2014

    Salaam everyone~

    @Samira, Well, I’ve missed saying anything to you, but if you check back in, here’s wishing you good luck on your finals. Insha’Allah, they’ll be no problem at all. I do think you’ve got your head on right, and have made some valid points in your posts. To me, being in a polygamous marriage doesn’t need to be a pre-requisite for gaining understanding. It also helps that you are Muslim, and that you can easily understand the very simple thing that Allah has tests for everyone, and none know what form these tests will be. You soldier on to the best of your ability and Insha’Allah, get a ticket to the goal (Heaven!). That’s all any Muslim wants, so with that in mind, and keeping trust in Allah, we can handle anything, Insha’Allah big grin

    @Billy, your mother-in-law stuff made me laugh laughing. A lot of “traditional”ly oriented people do that! I know older people who have had some…interesting…views on many things in life. I’ve heard older family members saying some weird stuff about “oh so-and-so did this, aren’t you going to do anything about it?” to each other, and sooooo much “so-and-so did black magic on her/him”. Someone once told me that this kind of gossiping/putting stuff in other people’s heads is something older people like to do because they’re bored laughing Specifically, the person said “they like to make other people jump and enjoy the mayhem” lol. So, continue like you’ve been doing, to humor her and not take what she says seriously.

    @Ina, I hope you are feeling better & your cough is gone. When your husband comes back, I would suggest not having an argument if you can help it. That wouldn’t help anything straight face Men are highly insensitive — he might be so excited about being with his other woman that he doesn’t care about anything else. Don’t let it get to you. Upsetting yourself is just making you physically ill — not worth it, babe happy Insha’Allah, things will work out (who knows, he might surprise you).

    @KA, nice to hear from you again. Interesting things going on in your neck of the woods I suppose.

    @Gail, nice to hear from you, I hope everything is going better with your in-laws now, since you’ve decided to change your mindset about how you’re going to deal with them! happy

    @Jenny, nice to hear about your update! Good luck with all the business projects you’ve got on your plate! My goodness laughing

    @Laila, missed talking with you! I liked reading the things you were talking about with Samira, very interesting conversation. Hope to hear from you soon, I hope everything is going well with you <3

    @Aishah, Oh dear, I hope your cat gets better soon sad. There should always be a quarantine period with new pets (even if you bring it from a vet checkup). This also helps with the current cat being satisfied with its position regarding the new pet. I'm sure you know already though happy.

    Also, I found your husband making you wait outside while he does whatever he was doing pretty rude -_-. Oh well, I think you handled it pretty good though! It was his own fault anyway, so you would have been right to do worse, but you barely did anything at all — didn't even disturb them! Were you able to pick up the kitten medication yourself? I hope all the pets are doing better and get well quickly. I remember when our family kitty was sick, everyone was so worried, heh.

    @Ana, how have you been? I think its kind of cute how some people seem to innocently push your buttons laughing It seems like you've been doing well. I watched Captain Phillips yesterday with my husband. We both ended up being more emotionally attached with the Somali pirates than the hero & crew laughing The way the movie was, it seems like that was the intent. At least it seems like that to me, lol. I really didn't care too much about the ship's crew or the captain — the way they were all sneaking around, lying, manipulating…it just seemed so…"typical American foreign policy" laughing It was a fun movie though, definitely worth watching, thanks for the recommendation! Have you seen anything else lately that you would suggest? (no romance movies, I can't stomach those anymore). There's two comedies on Netflix right now that I'm going to show my husband whenever we have time to watch — "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?" and "Spaceballs" big grin. Spaceballs can be a little crass at times, but its a great spoof on Star Wars, if you haven't ever seen it. And Roger Rabbit is just classic, I'm sure you know happy.

    @Ummof4, how have you been? I hope you and your loved ones are doing great. I liked reading your thoughts on the topic at hand as well, thank you, as always.

    Regarding the topic on this post — to me, respect is hard to earn, but easy to lose. Doesn't matter if you're in a "normal" marriage or polygamy. That said, I've noticed many men do lie & sneak around (monogamous or polygamous), so you could say there's a general lack of communication and lack of respect on the part of the idiot gender anyway. This I would attribute to the steady decline of morals and a steady increase of egotism in men as time goes on.

    Someone mentioned that same hadith of an unfair man being raised up with half his body paralyzed for Judgement Day, and someone else mentioned something about why would it matter what anyone looked like that day? There's actually places in the Quran that Allah speaks about peoples' look on Judgement Day — I found two, specifically about believers, Surah Al-Insan, verse 11, "But Allah will deliver them of the evils of that day, and will shed over them a light of beauty and joy." & Surah Al-Qiyammah, verse 23, "Some faces will be radiant on that day, gazing at their Lord." This makes me think, if what humans look like on that day is not important, why would Allah point this out? Therefore, even the people that don't put much stock in Hadith might take note of what is in Quran, so it might have some relevance. Allah knows best, of course. Its just something that stuck out in my mind happy.

    As for me, I've got the major portion of the centralized application filled out (so I can apply to schools) but I still have to wait for the test results before they will process it, and that will be about a month — still enough time to apply to at least a few schools, so that's good. In the meantime, I signed up for a class at my old college (not sure that was a bright idea, I actively avoided the professor teaching it when I was there! laughing ) plus I've got shadowing lined up for the month of February. I still have to go harass one letter writer as well. My husband is doing ok — busy. He's got a semester project to do, I've had to make sure he focuses on it during his free time laughing, but he's made progress. He's still not changed anything about the money situation, besides his "please be patient with me," and I've left it in Allah's hands anyway.

    Oh here's something interesting he told me, he said his 2nd wife has been stalking me on Facebook, lol. He said she must have gotten herself into the friend list of someone I'm friends with, and she's been FB stalking me and my family, because she's been talking about my sister's art/videos and family events — things that she wouldn't have any way of knowing. I'm thinking its either through a cousin or my sister — my sis and some cousins accept friend requests from anyone who sends them one. At first I was thinking I would go through all their friend lists, find her, and ask that person to remove her. But then I thought, "whatever", it's not worth the trouble (sis & some cousins have literally HUNDREDS of friends on FB). If she's so petty & jealous that she has to Facebook stalk me, let her laughing. I don't have anything on there that I need to hide (and why would I need to hide anyway?). I haven't used Facebook to spite her either. I easily could do that, putting up pictures or writing about my husband and I, but I'm not petty like her, so I'm using it like I always do — sharing pics/videos/web links, talking, joking around with family & selected friends. big grin

    Well, it's nearly 1am, so I'm gonna head off. I'll be sure to check in more often, just needed to adjust to all the schedule changes I've been doing. happy Goodnight all, prayers and best wishes for all the lovely ladies~!

  • Samira

    February 1, 2014

    Hey guys,

    Okay look I didnt mean to quite about offend anyone in here. Many seem fine and going well in polygamous marriages. Majority of the things are just like in any other monogamous marriage. People live different lifestyles. Its like a normal household, except two different families are involved. Thats how it is mainly I guess.

    I sincerely wish you guys barakah from Allah and that you live life well. Forgive me if I sound in a way as though I cant relate to your experiences. Many of you guys live normal good lives. I guess in that case you can just shut off from people who seem to not understand your lifestyle properly. Living is hard, not having people understand you is harder and makes it more stressful. Just saying.

  • ana

    January 31, 2014

    Oh, shucks, Aishah, it was all nothing but lack of communication and respect. It’s par for the course in polygamous marriage. Whatcha talking about? Don’t sweat the small stuff hee hee Lack of communication and respect is the norm in polygamous marriages; haven’t you heard? You just gave us a prime example…

    I know; a bit of sarcasm. Couldn’t help myself. Now, I’m turning off my computer, and returning to my boudoir for a movie. I’ll check for comments from my phone.

    I’m sorry for being rude. There only so much textbook version of polygamy I can take. I live in the real world.

    Samira,

    Maybe I’d be able to get with you on some of your concepts if you spoke from experience of having been married.

    I don’t mean to run you away from the blog. You are welcome here. Many enjoy your comments. So, carry on happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Aishah 2014

    January 31, 2014

    salaams.I was thinking of you earlier Ana.I was like Ana says squish stomp out thoughts of shaytan but I didn’t quite succeed so ill repent ask forgiveness and try not to do again…lead up to today…hub had gotten new kittens recently one for kids one for other house.I already had my 2 year old cat.should have separated kittens from my cat initially cause my cat got really serious ill almost died.bordatella kennel cough.been in animal hospital a week.still not eating.I listened to hub when my instinct said take her right away but he thought she would get better..not.so my fault too.in meantime ( Laila I’m not a bad petowner..kids enthused about a kitten me I’m just thinking doublethe cat litter and who says she wants a young playmate ccoming onto her turf ( sad I am emphathizing with my cat).. so new kittens definitely need go back pet store where they treat virus for free but hub keeps wasting time!!!” so yesterday says Co off,gonna taketheir cat and agrees she can take ours too.she met me at home to get cat.we have not spoken since Hajj so we did OK without hostility.she got meds for them and yep guess we worked together to get it done.she took ours and its meds with her and hub got kitten forgot meds..astrafallah! so I said ill be out w kids we agreed on time he would be at other house to give me….well his and her ( still) rental car there,see movement at bedroom blind.call several times call them both no answer no I’m not gonna go knock on door.

    told him then I start thinking there some action going in ( my words wieney roast) and heck no I’m outta there.hope I didn’t turf his yard a bit with. the truck…just thought it was kinda ignorant to have me waiting arould…yeah shaytan was on my back! gotta pray some more

  • Samira

    January 31, 2014

    The very good polygamous marriages I have seen is where there was more honest communication and respect involved, as in the husband and wife had an open conversation, she accepted it, he acknowledged her feelings about it aswell. They discussed their future aswell. There was no hard pressure in it involved. Later after marriage all sides tried to follow Quran and Sunnah. There is more responsibility on the husband’s part, of course, and he tries as much as he can to carry them out with justice and kindness. If the reasons for getting into the other marriage is not for selfish reasons by itself, all the better.

    From reading and hearing you guys’ stories though, I have learnt a lot, and that a good polygamous marriage is also possible, even if the co-wives dont get along, if the husband may be slipping on his duties, if the wives had made peace with it and figured out the benefits of the situation. And that we are human and make mistakes, so sometimes we may not start something out right. But still, also in polygamous marriages, I say respect and honest communication is highly relevant. Or it is difficult to trust our partner and to actually love them in turn.

    Also I respect all of you guys’ polygamous marriages. Its a different lifestyle from the monogamous marriages, thats all. Everybody hates to be the pity party by any sort, and living like normal, which is not quite my intention here though. I wish blessings and barakah upon all of you guys’ marriages, Ameen happy

  • ana

    January 31, 2014

    rolling eyes

    Don’t ask…

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Samira

    January 31, 2014

    Hello Jenny,

    Thank you so so very much for putting in your comment, I really thank you for speaking. This is exactly what I was trying to seek out at the bottom of everything, respect and honest communication. Regardless of monogamy or polygamy. That is what makes up for a good marriage.

    I have read stories where the man barely informs the first wife, and goes ahead with marrying the second, whether or not the first wife agreed to it. Or the first wife doesnt agree to the second marriage and tries her best to be a good wife to her husband, however she can, and he still went ahead and married the other woman. It shocked and horrified me me very much. There is no way a person should be expected to simply take it in. In other words the husband is telling her “suck it up woman, you are not my Wali, and I have the upper hand in this matter, so I dont need you permission”. That is just how it is.

    How about if after the second marriage, the first wife tries to extract as much of equal treatment as possible, since that is also a requirement in Islam. Any extra nights he spent with the other wife, any extra money, anything. If the husband pleads with her to forgive him because he is human and to overlook it, she can still go to Shariah court to demand all them back, since she has full Islamic grounds for it. But instead she is advised by people to be patient and to consider him as human first. If she then replies that she has rights to this since he also went ahead and married the other woman without informing her properly, people tell her two wrongs dont make one right. Well then, at least the people accepted that this was something wrong from the husband’s part. Because he is first supposed to see his spouse as a human being with feelings and emotions and also as a fellow partner in life, before trying to extract ways to go for polygamy as long as he is within Islam.

    Regarding lack of Imaan because of feeling emotions and anger for husband marrying a second, praying and becoming closer to Allah are ways a person finds peace and calm, regardless of the situation, whether he or she is single, in monogamy, polygamy, or other issues in life. So it is easier to accept and deal with life circumstances when one becomes closer to Allah and overcome trials and tribulations. So yeah.

    Being respected and having honest communication is a human right. Islam allows some loopholes because there could be times when a person is dealing with situations where there is really no other way and it is a good outcome for the people involved. Such as not asking for the first wife’s permission. But it shouldnt be the first choice.

    If a person wants to get married when single, he first asks his family and friends to help him choose and asks their advice and tries to listen to the people who know him properly and are well-meaning. There is really nothing in Islam which says a man should take this route, since he has no Wali and Islam is a dynamic relgiion, but this is usually the best way to go about it and produce overall long-term happiness. Similarly when a man wants to go for a second marriage, why shouldnt he consult with his present family of first wife, to ensure the proper outcome is met? Provided his present family are not people who would want bad and not care about him or themselves. But apparently now he doesnt really care about his current family’s opinions and emotions. Well he could argue since this issue is taboo he would just go on about it and later people will deal with it at face value. I dont know about this one.

    Communication and respect should be a two-way street in any area for a true partnership to take place, not just marriage, regardless of the genders involved. I think the same should be applied here too. People may not agree with me on many points especially since I am young and ‘inexperienced’, but I will want to carry this same principles even into my own marriage one day. I do admit I get scared, expressing my honest opinions at the core, since I am otherwise known for being very soft and gentle person who likes to make people happy. But some matters I do believe I need to be a ‘b*tch’ about, as Jenny said, to actually be at peace within myself and be just to other people aswell. So yeah.

  • ana

    January 31, 2014

    I think many times outsiders (Muslims and non-Muslims) looking in and reading about Muslim marriages that are polygamous don’t truly understand the dynamics. Many non-Muslims are opposed to Islam and to polygamy and they don’t understand the religion (way of life). Many Muslims haven’t read the Quran, and don’t know and understand Islam.

    Many people don’t understand about the struggles, tests, purification of the soul, personal jihad (battle) that Muslims seeking to be believers must go through that some of us speak of here on the blog. They don’t want to understand because they have a strong dislike and abhorrence of polygamy. All they want to do is harp on what they see as negative.

    Many men sneak around and have secret wives or don’t tell the wives they’ve married others until after the fact. They fear their first wives may leave them or they don’t want to hurt the wife, although anyway it’s brought to her she will be hurt. Many disregard much that we state here. We grew up in societies that don’t accept polygamy. We’re trying to live a lifestyle that is not supported by the masses.

    Many outsiders looking in don’t understand and can’t understand our way of life. People need to stop looking at polygamy and look at the people. The people make polygamy. Some people do more evil than good. Some people do more good than evil. Evil and good is in everyone. People make monogamy and people make polygamy. As u235sentinel said what is found in monogamous marriages can be found in polygamous marriages.

    I get sick and tired of those who want to pity us. Don’t feel sorry for us. Allah has a plan. There may come a day when we will be the one feeling sorry for those who once felt sorry for us. There is purpose in life. Life has a meaning. It’s not all about sport and play.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    January 31, 2014

    @Jenny,

    It’s good to know you’re still with us. I understand you not being able to comment as often as you used to with all the businesses you run, and taking care of your family and family matters. Whenever you can stop in and give us a holler, it’s good. I hope you have loads of fun on all your trips/vacations. You have to fill us in on the happenings. happy

    u235sentinel,

    I like and agree with what you stated. You said, “I can’t see people being in a healthy marriage (polygamous or monogamous) and not have respect as part of their life…Honestly though, there are very few things people can bring up that are truly issues with polygamy and not found in monogamy.” You are absolutely right about it. The only difference is that a man has more than one family. The issues and problem are the same as those in a one family home. Everyone has problems and issues. No one is exempt. The problems are only of a varying nature.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • u235sentinel

    January 31, 2014

    Wow I would hope respect is part of the relationship. I can’t see people being in a healthy marriage (polygamous or monogamous) and not have respect as part of their life.

    Honestly though, there are very few things people can bring up that are truly issues with polygamy and not found in monogamy.

    Personally I see it working well if all the wives are friends and the husband treats and loves them all.

    I’m not versed in Muslim beliefs however I can’t imaging a God who wouldn’t expect a home (or homes) filled with love and respect for one another. I’d have to say love is the benchmark established for us all.

    If we’re not realizing that in our relationships well… life has a way of giving us as many opportunities we need until we finally get it right big grin

  • Jenny

    January 31, 2014

    Hello Ya’ll!!!

    I may be lurking in the background, but never far away! You know the drill ~ I’ve been swamped as usual, but now on a much grander scale!

    This year I started the pumpkins in pre-school. There is a lovely Jewish school almost across the street from my office, so when we get lonely, we can pop right by for a few. My old neighbor, from before I married my husband, is the Rabbi/Principal of the school. Great place for them to be!

    The business has been going great, thanks to G-d! We have been extremely blessed! I could not imagine how things could get better, but I’m always pleasantly surprised when it happens. happy I was invited to help form a new insurance company ~ what an honor! And I’m doing it too! I’m going to be ‘of counsel’ and form it and set it up along with the underwriting department. It is going to be a huge honor for me and will be the biggest project of my life ~ all while running all of our other businesses!

    Hubby and I are doing great ~ we have our usual nit-picks but you have to remember that we are together 24/7. No breaks for us, which is okay, we really are each others best friend.

    For fun, we are preparing for two vacations. My daughters are flying in on Valentine’s Day and spending a long weekend. We are heading up to the mountains for a ski/spa vacation. At first it was just going to be me and the girls, but then decided to make it a family trip, so we are all going ~ hubby too! He reminds me of the cat I had when my daughters were little. The cat’s name was Baby. No matter what the girls did to this cat, swaddle it in blankets, put my red lipstick/eyeshadow, and {gasp} hair rollers, that cat just sat quiet and took it because Baby learned it was futile to fight it. The torture would be over quicker if he just goes along with it! My poor husband has that same look in his eyes! laughing

    Then a couple of weeks after that, we are off to Europe. This time just me and the hubby. In the process of moving my mother and grandmother up here. A few weeks ago I was in the south and put the house up for sale.

    Everything with Pakistan is going okay. I’m sure some of the newness is wearing off because I see little cracks beginning to form. Sometimes when I’m talking to my oldest she’ll holler for him to get off the phone. Little things ~ but it doesn’t bother me. It’s not like they are married. I know I am an extremely intense person and not everybody would like me. It’s okay. I’m either really loved or really hated. My mother-in-law is still adoring me and I’m very close with the kids. I see why that could be upsetting to her.

    Auction season will be starting up soon, so I am gearing up for that. We are on a quest for agricultural land, large plots of acreage, and more commercial property. My husband may go with me, but most likely I’ll go alone with my eldest son. Either way, it is always a nice time and profitable too!

    I’m generally here reading, not all the time I have time to post. My work load has grown immensely, even by my standards and everything is taking longer and so much more to do, but that is my life. I don’t mind being busy ~ busy is a good thing. I know a lot of businesses who are not busy but would like to be.

    I did want to make a comment about the name of the post. I’ve mentioned many times that in polygamy there is no respect. Whether or not a man tells his wife he is getting married is not the point. The point is: is it a respectable thing to do to someone the man “loves?” I see a lot of polygamy in my community and I feel so sorry for the women that they get themselves in such a wedgie (American or Russian Jewish women no less!).

    Some people think I’m a real b*tch, perhaps they are right, but one thing is I demand respect from my husband ~ and he gets it back from me just as equally. Its a two way street. Communication is important. When we married, I drew my lines in the sand of what I would tolerate and what would cause me to cut bait and leave. Communication is so important and I just don’t see it in the polygamous relationships I know about. I couldn’t imagine either me or hubby making decisions without talking about it first. Nine times out of ten it is me making the decisions, but that is how we do it in our marriage. The point is communication.

  • ana

    January 31, 2014

    @Samira,

    I pray you do really well on your final exams. Knock em dead. It’s so cool that you’re studying Engineering. You and “Spirited” have got it going on happy

    Samira, thank you for sharing with us about how things are in the UAE. I found it very interesting. I like learning about how other people live other places on the planet.

    @Spirited,

    I miss chatting with you. Looking forward to you coming back. happy

    @Billy,

    Woo yah hoo, you’ve got your hands full. Here you’ve got a good, nice, special “stepwife” (co) who is a rare find and your mother-in-law is trying everything she can to sabotage it for you all. How sad sad it is. She’ planting all those negative seeds angry

    Stay strong, Billy, and fight the Satan that’s all over your MIL. Seek refuge in Allah swt from Satan the accursed. You know the saying: audhu billahi min ash-shaitanir rajeem. ALhumdulliah, she’ll soon be back at her own home and away from you and your family. You have to ignore ignorance. You’re doing a really good job. Continue to combat Satan’s whispers, Billy. We’re here for you, if you need to let loose…

    @Laila,

    I like your statement that men aren’t robots. We can’t mold them into what we want them to be. Allah has created them in perfect proportion the way he wanted. They don’t have to dance to our beat. We need to put emphasis on encouraging them to do what Allah has commanded of us oppose to making them be and do what we want to fulfill our wishes. It’s not about us. It’s not about them. It’s about Allah swt. We many times get it twisted.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    January 31, 2014

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Peace to All, happy

    @Marie,

    Your reply to Samira saved me a lot of writing, as I was going to say similar to what you said. Samira pretty much stated many women help their husbands to succeed and prosper in life only to have another woman reap the benefits – I paraphrased what she said. I was going to say the women didn’t do diddly squat, nothing, nada. Allah did and does it all. We shouldn’t try to take credit for what Allah has done and does.

    The mere fact that many women think they’ve done this, that, and the other to help make their husbands what they are is one of the very reasons the women cannot be pain free and content in their polygamous marriages. They think they make things happen. They think their husbands make things happen. They blame their husbands for what Allah has made happen. They think they have all this power and control. They think everyone has all this power and control.

    Yet, the very people that they think have all this power and control can’t even help themselves, can’t make themselves feel better, can’t change the situation they are in.

    As long as they continue to believe as they do, (believe in themselves and their abilities) they will continue to agonize and suffer. Allah swt does not reward people for their wrong beliefs.

    I’ve placed a link here to maries’s post: http://polygamy411.com/is-there-a-lack-of-communication-and-respect-in-polygamous-marriages/#comment-56473

  • ummof4

    January 31, 2014

    As-salaamu Alaikum ans hello to everyone here,

    The recent posts by KA126 prove the point that people who are not comfortable with polygyny refuse to believe – that a man can sincerely love more than one woman at the same time. I had a similar experience years ago when my husband married a second wife. Even though we were not close friends, I wanted her to have a happy marriage with my husband. There were times when I knew their marriage was strained, and I never asked for details, just tried to advise my husband to be patient. Well, whatever their issues were, I guess patience wore out, and they were divorced. There was nothing I could do to prevent it.

    It’s kind oquiet here lately. I guess that’s a good sign that many of the marriages are going well.

    Allah is in control of everyone and everything. We can only try to live our lives as if we believe that fact.

    Billy, I believe you made a wise choice to vent here instead of to your husband’s other wife. I understand that we are supposed to respect our elders, in your case, your mother-in-law, but we also have to be reminders to other Muslims about what is right and what is wrong.
    I would advise you to let your mother-in-law know that you will not listen to her talking in a negative manner about your stepwife any more. That is backbiting(if it’s true) or slander(if it’s not true), both of which are forbidden in Islam. Be nice about it, talk to her over a cup of tea, read Surah Al-Hujarat with her that talks about backbiting, write her a nice letter. Do whatever you think would work for her; but you need to stop entertaining her wrong behavior. You can even decide if you think it would be best if your husband was present when you talk, so he would know that you are not disrespecting his mother, just giving her sincere advice as a Muslim.

  • GAIL

    January 31, 2014

    Billy,
    I really liked reading your post it was awesome.It makes me happy to hear how u are not being manipulated by your monster inlaw.lol
    I am curious how long have u been in Polygamy?
    Mother inlaws are something else just hang in there she will be gone soon and back to her life hopefully.

  • KA126

    January 30, 2014

    I forgot to check the boxes for alerts. Time to read in sha allah.

  • KA126

    January 30, 2014

    As salaamu Alaikum Sisters,

    I was wondering why I wasn’t getting alerts. Subhana Allah, I discovered there was a new thread. In sha Allah, I will get a chance to catch up with my reading. Ummof4 and Laila, thank you for remembering me! I have been Traveling with Habibi. Due to the ice storms, we had to stay a couple of more days because our flights got cancelled. happy!!! This is a great conversation because I used this time to communicate with him about my CoCo.

    To sum it up…. he is done with their marriage and there isn’t anything anyone can do about it. I discovered that she was placing a lot of demands on him. His statement was “The worst thing about it is that so many people told me that she would leave me once she came to the states. I told them they were lying and lo and behold she couldn’t live with me for two months before she left”.

    I discovered that his heart was really broken. He loves her very much but feels betrayed by her words and actions. She has started to talk badly about him to the Imams in the community. I think that bothers me more than him though.

    Let me catch up with the reading…. I will elaborate more in sha allah, later.

  • ana

    January 30, 2014

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Peace to All,

    I’m hopeful everyone is well. I have a lot of catching up here to do. I spent a good part of the day helping my older sister book a vacation for she and her husband. They’ve been married 32 years. I enjoy planning vacations. I think I’d make a good travel agent.

    I quickly glanced the posts.

    @Ina,

    You are so right; there is no good in thinking – what if? It was all predestined and meant to happen. At the same time, we can look at our lives and see where we can make improvements. You described a lot that was going on in your life and maybe you didn’t devote much time to your husband or whatever. You now see how you can make an effort to make things better, with the help and permission of Allah swt. It’s all good. No one was born perfect. We live life and we learn it. So, now it’s time to make an effort to improve your relationship with your husband. It’s a fresh start. None of what happened is a reflection on you. Don’t for a minute blame yourself for anything. If we’ve done some wrong, we repent, ask Allah swt for forgiveness and His Mercy. We keep it moving. Try not to dwell on the past. You’ve got to keep it moving – forward.

    I neglected my husband before he became polygamous. Although he and others may think it’s the reason he became polygamous, I know better. I know Allah had decreed all that took place. I saw how our relationship could be better and I made an effort to make the changes with the help and permission of Allah. His and my marriage is now better than it has ever been. It’s all good. It’s all what it was meant to be from the day he and I met till today – no blame, no guilt, no ill feelings about anything. As long as we stay focus on what is real (Allah) everything is good.

    I better go join Alex. He leaves sometime tomorrow, Insha Allah. Chat with you all soon, Insha Allah. happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • billy

    January 30, 2014

    okay i’m sorry to be all touch and go but my mother in law is a real work of art. thought she would have left by now? think again.

    she’s trying to get my husband to divorce stepwife. (no, she still doesn’t like me, not remotely, but its more about her than me. she feels since my husbands gotten married he’s be “neglecting” her as his mom.)

    i don’t even know what to feel at this point.. it baffles me really. i mean what has my husband ever done for her, save for write her a large check every month since we’ve been married? i’ll tell you what, nothing. well, yeah he calls her everyday. i’m guessing the trigger in all of this was when they went on that ski trip and his phone was damaged and he couldn’t call her? because i can’t think of any other reason for her to feel that way.

    maybe its because he chose to move here instead of closer to her? honestly i don’t even know why i care at this point. now she’s on my case trying to manipulate me into getting my husband to leave her, its like she doesn’t know me at all? i guess he never told her this whole thing was my idea to begin with and that i’m fine with it? you should hear the things she’s telling me, lol, as though i’m a kid she can make jealous?

    “he spend more time with her. is that fair to you?”
    “he takes her on vacations? how can you be fine with that?”
    “he’s gonna love her more. he’ll never give you kids, he’ll give her kids and you won’t be able to do anything about it, get her out of your life while you can.”

    i think, in part, it has to do with the language barrier/cultural barrier.

    i mean, a vacation for me doesn’t include my husband. i mean i get it girls, you all love vacationing with your men. i wouldn’t mind it, i can enjoy it, but i also wouldn’t call it a vacation. i prefer it alone. and i can care less if they go on vacations together, i think the fact that i babysat her childrens cousin so their aunt and uncle can join proves that point. besides vacations with my husband aren’t vacations and my stepwife has also come to realize how rigid they are.

    anyway, he spends more time with her because she has kids for crying out loud. and they kids love him and always want him around. please, its a blessing for me. i can do more of what i want to do when he’s not around anyway. i prefer solitude, always have and always will (mother in law being around isn’t helping.) besides, when i “need” him, wink wink, he’s here in a flash so, i’m covered lol.

    and really, if he decides he does want his own kids, by all means, scratch that, not by all means, i mean, HE BETTER get them from her because there is no way in hell i’m carrying a baby and doing all that disgustingness.

    its like.. she thinks she’s getting to me but in reality she’s bringing me to tears of annoyance lol. i just want her to stop talking and be OUT. god, one more day of this chick and i will lose my mind. she has a house. she has a life. i don’t get why she’s still here. i’d freaking carry her the 700 miles back to her house at this point, in this weather.

    okay, sorry, i just needed to vent.

    meanwhile my husbands avoiding her at all costs by working as long as he possibly can. yay me?!

    fml. fml. fml.

    OH WOW you wouldn’t believe what she tried to get me to believe about my stepwife : “you were pregnant. you’re not pregnant anymore.. for all you know its her fault..”

    uhhhhh yeah… cuz she’s god and life and death is in her grasp?! astaghfirallah. lmao this lady is bonkers. she doesn’t realize me and my stepwife are actually good friends.

    oh, and yeah, she is staying over there because that’s where my husband is.. but she comes and.. well… lucky me.. she spends her days with me… * shoot me now *

    someone should make her an account on a marriage site.. maybe if she finds a man she’ll leave everyone else alone?

    sorry guys. i gotta go for now. i just had to vent & this is the only place where i can.. i’d have vented to my stepwife but i don’t want to put a wedge between her and our mother in law.. she actually thinks she likes her because she’s all smiles around her.. good thing my stepwife doesn’t know arabic.

    she bought me a pie around noon, my mother in law was here, and she made this other thing, some ethnic dish, my mother in law said, in arabic, to me “smile, act like you’re happy about it, act like you’ll eat it.. we will get rid of it when she leaves. you don’t know what she did to it..”

    if i knew she was really that paranoid i would have laughed.. but the reality of it is, she isn’t remotely paranoid.. she just wants to make me paranoid so that i tell my husband to end it..

    i’d have to be a heartless witch at this point.. my husband actually loves his other wife, and yes he told me that when i asked him. and honestly, i love her too, she’s a sweetheart. and we’re both crazy about the kids, they’re adorable. the last thing she could make me feel towards her is paranoia.

    hope what i wrote isn’t confusing. i’d read it over but i have to go now for real. my head is just so full of my mother in laws annoyance and i had to pour it out somewhere. again sorry.

  • Ina

    January 30, 2014

    Assalamualaikum,

    @ Ana, I am so glad to see the website restored back to it’s former glory. I had withdrawal symptoms when it was being reconstructed. I find comfort in everyone’s posts and I try to draw strength and positiveness from other’s advice and experience to help me with my own situation.

    @ Samira, welcome. you sound like a sensible and very thoughtful person. You have idealistic views of love and marriage but there is nothing wrong with that at your age. All relationships need time, effort and good communication to make it work. When my husband was feeling neglected, he did not talk to me and I did not talk to him even though I knew things weren’t quite right. I felt overworked and stressed juggling work and 2 young children and could not see him helping out with the household chores as much as could have done. Maybe if we had communicated then he would not felt the need to marry another. But then again, it’s all predestined so it’s no point going on about what ifs. Good luck with your exams…come to the blog when you are done.

    @ Laila, I hope you are feeling better. I wanted to say thank you for your words of comfort. I hope you are feeling better with your finger.

    @ Ummof4, your post about how you and your husband still have a deep, passionate love for each other after 39 years of marriange, how he makes you smile, how you communicate with each other every day is very touching. With Allah’s help and will, I hope to reach your level of contentment one day (inshaallah). At the moment, I am struggling with my demons.

    Hubby is away for work and I have not really spoken to him for nearly 2 weeks after our argument about the clash of his 2nd honeymoon and our anniversary date. I had to focus on work and needed to push everything about him/her to the back of mind. It was hard, I was working and crying at the same time for the 1st few days. I am also suffering from a persistent cough which reappeared after all the stress. I am sure it was the stress which is making me ill. He will be back on Sunday…I don’t know how I’ll be. I am still feel upset when I think about it.

    Salams to everyone.

  • marie

    January 30, 2014

    @ samira wa alaykum asalaam

    Just popped in to answer you, no we didn’t marry during his rebound stage, we married 10 year after we first met nearly 2 years after we become Muslim, Islam is the only reason we married. In the beginning we were very much friends (no hanky panky). He had very mean people around him at that time and he said it was nice to just sit with me, I enjoyed his company too. We would sit up all night just talking and listening to music. We never became intimate until 3 years after the breakdown of his first relationship.

  • Samira

    January 30, 2014

    Assalamualaikum everyone,

    Okay I am back again, lol. Just to give another reply before I pore my nose in books again. I really appreciate the fact that u guys are trying to answer honestly aswell. Because otherwise I get very confused. Each person’s story is different. I appreciate that you are all trying to please Allah, keep ur marriage healthy and running, and be in this lifestyle. Like I said, u guys seem to be well educated, strong and have high levels of Imaan developed, Mashaa Allah.

    I am pretty scared of offending anyone lol, so please please dont feel like I am purposely trying to poke at anyone. I am only speaking from my limited vision of polygamy. I want to learn aswell. Some few cases seem to be quite thriving. Others seem to be managing pretty okay. And some others are quietly suffering because of some form of injustice happening and they cant really do much.

    @marie

    You seem to have a high level of Imaan to want good for your husband, even if the news didnt make you happy at the beginning of your husband wanting to marry his ex. I have a question though. Did you marry him during his rebound stage? Because sometimes men tend to go for another woman to distract themselves from the pain. I have a male friend who after seven years of (highs and lows) relationship had his girlfriend dump him to marry another man. Within a few months of breakup he was desperate to get married, even though he is still studying. He tried proposing me indirectly, appreciating me and saying he wants a wife like me. I turned him down indirectly too, because I am studying now anyway. So yeah, just asking.

    @Laila

    I do agree that social stigma is a big pain in societies where the fellow wives of a man just want to live on their own and in peace. In that case people assuming wives being rich but lonely and depressed must not make u happy. I think they too have limited visions of polygamy, and may not understand that polygamy doesnt necessarily mean the wives are unhappy. And of course it is more honorable to be a wife in the open than a mistress or ‘secret wife’.

    @ana

    Thank you for your honesty here. That there are polygamous marriages which are indeed based on sex. Well at the least the man and the woman involved are in the halal. No wonder you call her names lol, for this kind of behavior. Alot of times when I see a co-wife sending sexual pictures of messages to another co-wife, it has root causes of jealousy in it. I dont think she is happy being a ‘married friend-with-benefits’.

    One thing atleast have become quite apparent, how a relationship starts is probably going to dictate the rest of it. Such as if it starts with sex, it may most likely continue with lust in mind. Because sex is powerful, and can be addictive habit.

    When it is time for me personally to get married, I want it to have as less a physical component than one which has better communication and honesty. I am quite careful about that, and refuse to respond to sexual attraction signals a guy may give to get me hooked. My guy friends too are well aware of my openness and frankness, while I am being respectful. I hope Inshaa Allah it will act as a better foundation before starting a marriage. I pray you guys have a good life ahead Inshaa Allah, *hugs* happy

  • Laila

    January 30, 2014

    Dear Samire, I guess I have lots to say to you! happy Okay… you said that you’re shocked by the behaviour of some newly married men who make passes at you… Well this is my conclusion on MEN and women generally.

    There are many types of people in the world. Some are clear cut, some are manipulative, some are downright dirty…. the list goes on! Women and men generally aren’t robots. They behave in such ways that may baffle us because of these points :-

    1. Family values
    2. Background
    3. Own personal belief system
    4. Culture
    5. Religion

    Ive listed all the points that I think plays a major part in either making a marriage blissful or rocky. I for one know that many Muslims out there are ‘Muslims’ but their culture plays a more dominant role in their lives….

    Yes, when a man decides to remarry, he doesn’t have to ask his wife for permission. My husband, just for an example, did ask his wife about marrying me. But she said, ‘no’. he then, ‘told’ her, and within a month, it was done. Initially she thought he was joking when he confided in her, but later on reality did set in. As in regards about asking permission or not, I think it would be good if he informs his wife first about his move. He doesn’t have to ask for permission, but a heart to heart talk will help ease the situation. A lot of religious teachers have indicated that a man doesn’t have to even inform his wife at all if his new wife is from a different country. However, after attending a religious lecture at my masjid here, the religious teacher did say that morally, a husband does have the very least, inform. This is done to start off the new marriage on a right footing and not dabble in secrecy.

    There are many view points on this. All I can say is, in this world, it’s good if we have a good moral compass. So it will be helpful then if we are married to Muslims that come from a different race or culture. In many cases Samira, I feel that culture and family values dominate a persons actions. The sad part is also, the person may be so ignorant or unaware that he feels that what hes doing / done isn’t a bad thing after all.

    Of course men being men are also attracted to the physical nature of a woman. That I feel is normal. But then again there must be boundaries.

    Polygamous set ups are never easy. But then again so are monogamous relationships. Its all boils down to the behaviour and how considerate and sensitive a partner is at the end of the day.

    You touched about love / life that some women are just disillusioned about it all. My grandmother wheom I loved / love to death never even knew the man she married. He left her when she gave birth to a stillborn child. She too in the era that she was considered ‘rejected goods’. Then came along my grandfather from India, who was a priest, never even looked at her and told my great grandmother that he would marry her. It was said that her second marriage was the most blissful, loving marriage ever. They were never blessed with children, but she took my father as an adopted son. Money was just barely enough. They never faught or even argued. You want to know her advice?…

    “Whenever you are angry with your husband, go out and sit under a mango tree and look out at the greenery. You will feel much better about things. Once you’re ready, walk back in and pick up where you left off, and life goes on”.

    Love is somthing that’s to be nurtured throughout the marriage. If you don’t see it coming from your spouse, then you should be the first to start. Even the toughest of men will melt and understand.

    I may sound a bit childish but Ive tried it myself. In the past I always used to wonder why my husband is so tough on me. Nowdays when he says real silly things, I just keep quiet. After a while, he gets the idea and does favours for me. Thats his way of saying, ‘sorry’.

    We cant really say that all polygamous men are a plague that should be avoided at all costs… Remember, there are many types of men out there. You could even be in a monogamous marriage and yet be miserable. So, thats my two cents worth of opinion. It’s all about how they look at life and how they feel about women in general.

    Time to listen to John Newman’s song…. ‘Will you love me again’…. just love that song!….and take my shower. Its 3 am here.

    *Happy Chinese New Year to anyone whos celebrating it. We are on holiday tomorrow in my country to usher in the Chinese New Year.

    Dear Lynette, hope you’re getting well ya. [ Hugs ]

    Dear Ana and Ummof4 [ Hugs ]

    Dear Gail, where are you? happy

    Dear Jenny… don’t leave us happy

    Dear Spirited, miss you happy

    Dear Aishah and KA126, [ Hugs ]

    Salam!

  • ana

    January 30, 2014

    @Aisha,

    I hear you about whether your co is actually a co or not, as you question whether they were married properly. It’s nice that you and I don’t have to worry about such a thing. We may question what they do, but not have to suffer the consequences for their wrongdoing, if any.

    I mean, for instance, everyone knows from my first posts when I first began the blog, I said I thought my husband married for lust. They had previously had a relationship based on sex (he said they had agreed to have sex until either of them met someone else – keep in mind Alex wasn’t Muslim then. I’m uncertain at what point he became Muslim). Once he hooked back up with her years after he and I were married, he said he couldn’t be around her without being married (wanted sex). After they married, she only spoke to me about sex with regard she and Alex. Any text messages I saw in his phone to and from her were about sex. She just recently sent me more evidence that their relationship is sexualy based (the pic she sent me of his private part). I could surmise from all of the above that they have a marriage based on lust. Allah swt tells us not to marry for lust.

    I’m just thankful to Allah that I don’t have to concern myself about him, her and it, as I’m not the one who has to account to Allah swt for it. I can question and wonder all I want, but why waste my time. I say all this to you Aishah, only to say, I know where you’re coming from with what you said about you co. Is she a co or not? Thank Allah swt much you don’t have to figure it out or answer for it. Alhumdulliah!!!

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • marie

    January 30, 2014

    Asalaamu alaykum all

    @samira (again)

    I am not in a polyganous marriage either, an I’m I’m still here Alhamdulilah, please do return when you’re schedule is less busy. Just to touch on somethings you said. I supported my husband (then friend) through the breakdown of his fist relationship. he was very distraught as it was she who left him. Years later she wanted to marry him (1 year ago) then changed her mind. I seen the same look in his eyes, yes it was hard to see him upset because he is in love with a woman who he can not be with and express his love for her ( to her) BUT I knew he loved me very much also. I would say I’m a loving,caring wife and iv always been this way with him, just because he has me and loves me does not mean he does not or can not have the same feelings for another woman. Sometimes I feel very guilty that I made such a fuss when he told me he was going to marry her, in the end you could say I got my own way as he is only married to me at the moment, however I didn’t feel happy when I seen him sad. ( I cried when he was going to marry her, I cried when he was sad that he was not marrying her). I wouldn’t probably still feel very guilty that I stood in his way when he wanted to marry her, now I realise it’s not up to me and I can neither prevent or allow them to marry as it’s all up to Allah. My husband did not and still does not want to marry her to fulfil his sexual needs or because I an not enough wife for him, he is a very caring man and wants to treat her the way she deserves to be treated, with love care an affection the same way he treats me. Some men may want to marry for sex or other baseless reasons but I think they probably get more stress than enjoyment.

  • Laila

    January 30, 2014

    Dear Samira, I didn’t mean to “attack” you but when you said that women involved with polygamy are attached with a stigma, ure spot on on that! I don’t think even for a split second that any woman whether in a monogamous / polygamous set up would appreciate pity. Nobody does.

    I don’t blame you for your views on how you look at polygamy. Now in fact, I understand. However, in many situations that takes place in many countries, women sometimes are respected, and appreciated, and some are just ‘used’. As you know, in my country, it’s legal if a Muslim man decides to remarry. Nevertheless, society here do not approve of it at all. That’s why families practising polygamy don’t really dish out details in the sense of second / third / fourth wives history until probably neighbours sniff it out themselves. Some on the other hand can be pretty open and not give a care to what society in general think. I for one know, many of my neighbours “pity” me. In the past, they never could even give me a second look, and now that we are pretty established, everyone thinks that im a “poor rich and lonely wife”. So, you see…. being polygamous always never wins the hearts of soceity.

    We as women always wan’t to be the one and only woman that our husbands marry. We have fantasies that we are our husband’s one true love…. How wrong we all are…. In many cultures in the world, men get involved with women, have babies, and ‘use’ them. In my country for example, non-Muslim men engage in sexual relationships, sometimes out of these relationships, kids are brought into the world. In my opinion, what label / name do you place upon that ‘other woman and her kids’?…. Who is she really? Mistress / lover / best friend / friend / f*** buddy as they refer to it in my country? Don’t you think that in a ever modern world with civilized ideas that this nonsence of using women would stop? Yes, you can also say that the woman is also having a gala time. All her needs financially / sexually / are met, can’t comment about the emotional part though. But in my eyes, that’s modern day slavery. Why? Because till the end of her life, she will never know where she stands. She can’t even for the life of her explian it to her children…. This is slavery / taking advantage of a woman. Somehow, funnily, soceity accepts such antics…. They ‘understand’ and move on.

    Many don’t even raise eye brows at gay and lesbian couples getting married and legally. Then why is it such a big deal that Muslims wan’t to legalize it? It’s just a different way of life actually and sometimes, not everyone want’s a husband 24 / 7…..

    I would rather, seriously, my hubbs marry and put a name to the relationship he has if it happens in the future. Yes, I won’t lie, initially I would be hurt / sad and go through my own blues. But I know what im made of, and I will rise to the occasion and see to it that the next woman is given her rights and respect.

    Before I married my hubbs, he was not always around at home with his kids. It’s because in my country, having only a salary and living with it is not enough. He had to do a lot of part time work to supplement his income. So in my point of view, sometimes even in a monogamous relationship, the daddy is not always present….. It’s how we as wives also help run the family in daddys absence.

    U take care dear. [ Hugs ]

    Im just expressing my thoughts, and do drop by soon.

    Salam.

  • marie

    January 30, 2014

    Oops I ment I DO think I have the best husband ever

  • marie

    January 30, 2014

    Asalaamu alaykum all,

    @samira

    In response to your post about a woman building a man up and then another woman reaping the benefits. I did feel this way when the mother of my husbands children all of a sudden decided she wanted to marry him. At the time I suppose she felt he wasn’t good enough for her ( nothing wrong with that). I then realised that I did nothing, it was Allah who made him a better man, it was Allah who gave me the patients to stick with him and it was Allah who willed for us to marry, I wouldn’t want anyone to feel sorry for me for having to share someone who 1 is not MINE and 2 had no part in making them a better person. It was and is all Allah. I suppose I could say I was rewarded with a good husband in this life for have a good intention to want to help someone else regardless of how I was feeling or what I was going through at the time. I did think my husband is the best husband ever and have been working on wanting another sister to have the same as me. I do believe he could be a great husband to me and another sister.

  • Samira

    January 30, 2014

    Assalamualaikum everyone,

    I am currently having a tight schedule because of my final exams coming up soon, so I wont be able to reply or comment much further. I might, later on, if I can. Since I am not in a polygamous marriage myself in any form, so I cant really relate to the experiences that all of you bring, which is why this blog was formed.

    I have learned things from you guys about polygamy, atleast that a good polygamous marriage is possible. In United Arab Emirates where I was raised, the emiratis getting multiple wives is pretty common. But alot of them do so because of culture and/or variety. Well alot of men there are mainly born Muslims, and hence see this permissible law in Islam as something they can use for their own pleasure. This is also hearing the stories from my older sister speaking to the emirati co-workers themselves, men and women. Some women are fine with it, as its part of their culture, others cannot even get equitable treatment, which makes it very hard for them and disillusioned about love and life. This negativity is then passed on to single people.

    Also in Bangladesh my father’s family friend, after fifteen years of marriage with his first wife, decided to marry a barely literate village girl who is more than 20 years younger than him, without properly informing the first wife. Later she ended up running away to her village home after stealing some of his property (her husband later convinced her to come back). Which means she married him for money. Not a pretty picture of polygamy to outsiders.

    So yeah, after seeing alot of mainstream modern polygamy for a man’s own needs being fulfilled (emotional or physical or whatsoever) or it just being a cultural aspect, where a man will still marry another even if he has loving and good wife at home, without her permission, its very easy to get disillusioned about it. I myself was shown interest by a couple of (newly) married men, both of whose weddings I had attended earlier, who liked me because I was nice, and then was physically attracted to me, and later somewhat emotionally. I can only imagine how the first wives might feel if they see they are being happy with their husbands one time, another time the husband is being heartbroken because he cant get another girl and she is refusing to pick up on his signs so he can be more clear with her on how he feels. Psshhh.

    The good polygamy stories I have read about here have opened my eyes to other aspects of polygamy outside the limited vision I have seen for myself. That it is possible to still have a good marriage whether or not you are in good terms with your co-wife/wives. Preferably if it didnt start out with the wrong reasons. But also possible if mistakes were made earlier, partciularly by the husband.

    Personally, even if I were to choose monogamy for myself, I would say, I would rather be happy, be loved and cherished and have my kids grow up with a good father in a polygamous marriage rather than unhappy/unloved/kids dont see father at home when they need him in a monogamous marriage. And yeah some things are just part of Allah’s decree, and the wife should see if she is okay with the situation or not. Some of you seem to have envious levels of Imaan that I am personally trying to work towards, slowly though. And yeah, at the end our Imaan and how we help ourselves and our spouses attain Jannah rather than striving for this world itself is what matters the most. We should still live by our dreams and work towards them aswell.

    I appreciate you women for being strong-willed, despite society stigma which may be attached, and other factors which you may have to deal with. Again, yeah since I am not much experienced I wont want to share much opinions about this matter. Take care happy

  • Laila

    January 29, 2014

    Dear Samira, Asalamualaikum… I think I would like to comment in regards to your statement, on the part where the second wife gets to “enjoy” the benefits of being married to a man already established, and it’s a pity to the first wife because she’s worked behind the scenes to polish this rough diamond. Guess what? I just do’t agree with you on that statement.

    Ive been with my hubby for 13 years now. I met him when I was so young. 19 going into 20…. For the first 3 years of our life together, he wasn’t established. It took him five years initially to get somewhere. Give you some personal info, he didn’t even get me any birthday gift / gift for the first three years. Money was tight but we didn’t suffer. It was just that we couldn’t spend it on unnecessary things. Mind you, I could have given my husband a tough time but I didn’t. I wasn’t raised with a silver spoon in my mouth so I just went with the flow. Yeah sometimes I did feel it when I saw my friends had more than me. But seriously, it didn’t bother me to the extent where I was full of anger towards him.

    Personally, I think it’s a blanket statement when you said that the first wife helps see the potential and sees to it that the husband becomes the best he can be. Let me tell you this…. When I first married my hubby, he was a playful happy-go-lucky man. He was always easy with everyone. He never ran our home like a corporate office. He never touched on matters like being focused etc… etc…. I can easily say that for the first three years, we were happy in our own ignorance, if you get what I mean. He only changed drastically when HE HIMSELF SAW how some of my neighbours treated me, and how my own family dismissed me. That’s when he woke up and worked his a** off and started telling me what his next goal would be or what’s our next purchase as a couple / family. In terms of struggle, unlike many who marry as second wives in my country get quite a bit. We still lived off in our two room apartment for YEARS. We only moved into this home of ours recently, Alhamdulilah! happy Very grateful for that.

    Even I myself have changed. I used to take many things lightly and was always so laid back. Nowdays I just don’t do that. I remind myself that im married now and Ive got to save for our future and run my business well so that when he retires we still have an income coming in. I don’t plan to run my household but then again I plan to be my husbands pillar of support if s*** flies.

    You touched on money. Money is a very touchy subject. I have seen how even monogamous relationships FAIL because of money. Husband is either spending it on booze / gambling or not even working. We can’t say that only in polygamous relationships money would be logically be tight. Nope. Moeny is such that if a couple fails to plan, then their ship will eventually sink. Monogamous or polygamous, MONEY will always be an agenda eventhough I know some couples dislike talking about it.

    I can only tell you this. A man can only change himself if he decides that he want’s to. It’s not about a wife or wives that so called makes the difference. We can motivate and nag all we want but if he decides to not budge, we can’t do nuts. But if he sees that that’s not how he envisioned his family to live then trust me, even mountains can be moved!

    We can’t be selfish and say that we as wives ARE THE ONES that made the man…. im sure that if theres a successful woman who’s married, it would be rude if we say that it’s through her husbands efforts that shes successful. Yes he may have motivated her and pushed her, but he’s not the MAIN driving force. I know motivation as I wrote a thesis on it. So let’s not have a pity party for any wife. Even I myself dislike it when people “pity” me…. Yes as wives we could have played a part to make our husbands better people / men, but we aren’t the main instrument.

    We are all here to support one another. We are in no way struggling. We are not weak women here on this blog. We are all tough cookies in our won right. We just would like to share our issues and get some form of feedback and be better Muslims / women / wives.How sure are you that monogamous couples out there don’t have their fair share of troubles? Everyone is tested in some way or the other dear…. You just have to look and you will see it.

    Yes you’re right. Polygamy isn’t for the faint hearted. But let me tell you this, polygamy has certainly brought me closer to my creator. I have so much of “free” time when hubbs isn’t around, especially at night. Sometimes I go on the Quran online and just listen to the readings. Sometimes I watch sermons on Youtube by Yusof Estez… hope my spelling was right hehehe…. If I were to be the “only” wife trust me… I wouldn’t have the time as I would have to look into his needs.

    So please don’t view polygamy in a negative light, just understand that some have chosen to live a different lifestyle as compared to the norm.

    Salam

  • Aishah 2014

    January 29, 2014

    actually think hub has some guilt at way things have turned out,he knows its turned out messy. and can’t figure out how to be stronger fix his mess.

  • Aishah 2014

    January 29, 2014

    salaams.adding to thevconversation.I knew my husband loved me very much and he told me so/ showed me so.unfortunately chose to make it secret marriage ( and to be honest they never told me nikah date,he did comment about me having ” the paper” and I think he told some brothers it was a verbal nikah ( don’t know about imam,wali, or witnesses) so do I have a Co or is she really a wife? don’t know.haven’t spoken to her since theviolation of using account to pay for her rental car….anyway I stay this way take care of my family and children.I observe the schedule..he’s doing better with the financial thing. well so am I. and she calls a bit less on my time.maybe learned to wake self up for prayer!! but OK..now I see hub more tense.its tough lifestyle at times..other nite mine I said ” its OK.u can just stay that way cause u look so tired.I’m not so selfish that I’d have you run off road.but…part still bugs me he tries to still bring us together in some way ( mind u she is not reaching out to me)and I think he has some idea I am super humanthat I can take on anything, and forge a friendship out of it.I say Allah didn’t intend for a friendship that’s clear.so yes just let me try to keep on the straight path and turn to God….

  • ummof4

    January 29, 2014

    As-salaamu alaikum and hello to everyone,

    Samira, you speak with the voice of inexperience. If a man marries a second wife it does not mean he is unhappy with his first wife in any way. It does not mean that his first wife cannot satisfy him sexually so he needs another one. It does not mean that he either gets another wife or commits adultery. Even if he marries a wife that is younger or more beautiful, that does not mean he is unhappy.
    Marriage is about more than looks and sex. A man may marry a woman because she has asked him to marry her (through her walee, hopefully).
    The example you gave doesn’t make sense to me at all. You have no reason to feel bad for a first wife. And believe me, the second wife will still have struggles, even if she marries a man who has “made it” and is successful.
    Your last post sounds as if you are leaving this blog. Hang around a little longer.
    It often amazes me that people like to ask why a man marries a second wife when he has a first one. Why do parents have a second child when they already have one? Why do people get another friend when they already have a best friend?
    As another sister already mentioned, Islaam, when accepted in your heart, mind and soul, erases the notions of romance, love and marriage that are taught – one man, one woman, living happily ever after, being everything for each other. That is not reality, just fairy tales.

  • Samira

    January 29, 2014

    Assalamualaikum everyone,

    Thank you for replying to me. You women appear to be quite strong willed women who tries to follow Islam the best way possible and have higher goals in life, which is trying to attain Jannah Inshaa Allah. As in the fact you try to live polygyny according to Islam shows that, among other things required to strive for Akhirah.

    @ummof4

    I appreciate your honesty in your comment and that you try to live Islam. I wonder though, if a man is truly happily married to his wife and loves his wife, why would he want to take another wife? Apart from reasons like following the Sunnah of the Prophet (SAWS) in helping a woman and her children in need. Or maybe he has stronger level of desires that his wife cannot cope with. It is like saying if not polygyny then those few men will go ahead and be unfaithful anyway. It doesnt sound like a pretty idea. But it is still a better option than committing adultery or leaving his first wife.

    As an example, I would say when a man married young, he probably had nothing much, except potential. His wife recognized his potential and helped him in whatever way she could, so he could rise and shine in a few years, in terms of personality, character and career. Then other sisters seem to start being interested in this respectable man, such as an Imam, Sheikh, etc. Now people may say that the first wife should want for her fellow sister a good man what she wants for herself. But then she is the one who built him up in the first place, probably behind the scenes, and the second one is enjoying the good treatment minus the struggle that the first wife had. Its in such cases I feel bad for the first wife. And more so if he married for beauty, youth, etc. Telling the first wife to have sabr and be accepting doesnt sound quite right.

    Well I personally would not choose to go for polygamy, since I am aware of the struggles here, such as raising children, having a husband half the time or less, feeling unnecessary jealousy or resentment. If money is tight, that doesnt make it better. However, there are always exceptions, so I wouldnt totally disregard it, and if the man is just and kind, and good at giving equitable treatment, and hold me in a good position. And there are other ways of striving for Jannah too. Having the emotional security of my very own husband would help me try to attain those goals Inshaa Allah. My opinion only lol. Also my culture (Bangladesh) is more reserved in this area, so society-wise it wont be welcomed well.

    Love to all of you for the sake of Allah, and I did learn from you guys, take care everyone happy

  • ummof4

    January 29, 2014

    As-Salaamu Alaikum and hello to all,

    True love, passionate love, giddy love can still exist if your husband marries another wife. I have never lost that feeling for my husband after being married 39 years (40 Islamic years). He still makes me smile every time I see him and he calls me from work at least three times a day just to say As-salaamu Alaikum. We still send love notes (now we can even Skype, facebook and email on those new fangled things called computers, laptops, and ipads). I always feel that I am special to him, and he is special to me. We also have a deep love for each other that cannot be explained.
    Also, based on my experiences with polygyny, I believe a husband can truly love more than one woman at a time. He definitely can sexually satisfy more than one wife. The love he feels for his wives most likely will have some similarities and some differences.
    What keeps me happy is working on making sure my marriage is the best that it can possibly be in all aspects, and not worry about my husband’s marriage to his other wife. That’s their business, not mine. Just as my marriage is not the business of my co-wife.

    Remember to thank Allah before you go to sleep wherever you are.

  • ana

    January 29, 2014

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Peace to All,

    I’m just getting in and situated.

    @Marie,

    As I was saying, I could understand the feeling of a woman who was first on the scene with the man and then he marries another before her, especially when many years have gone by. It would take a woman with a strooooog emam (faith) to accept that it was Allah’s decision and accept it nicely and with good cheer. I long to reach that level of faith to be able to take that position with anything and everything – to accept ALL of Allah’s decisions happily. No telling what your husband’s other is thinking and going through, nor mine.

    Marie, the same as maryam, I got a nice little chuckle laughing out of your post about your size. You have a good reason for being larger in size; you just recently gave birth. Good for you for having a positive, healthy attitude about it. Alhumdulliah!

    @ummof4,

    I hear you about not putting additional conditions on what Allah permits thumbs up. The way to go! happy

    Insha Allah, I’ll be back soon.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ummof4

    January 29, 2014

    As-salaamu Alaikum and hello to all the ladies and gentleman,

    On the topic of getting the first wife’s(or wives’winkingpermission before a man can be married. Unfortunately, this is the law in several countries where the majority of the population is Muslim. Once when my husband was considering marrying a sister, she said she would not marry him without my permission and she wanted me to write a letter giving my husband permission to marry her. I told her, NO WAY! I am not the walee of my husband. A walee of the woman and the woman must give permission for a woman to be married, a man does not have a walee who has to give permission. We have no right to put conditions on marriage that Allah did not put. I knew that my husband wanted to marry her before she even knew, and I had accepted the fact that they would be married. You may be wondering if she married my husband even though I did not give my husband a permission letter. Yes, they are married. I guess she really didn’t need the letter after all, it’s just what people were used to doing in her country.

    Samira, I’m glad you have joined us. You will probably learn a lot from the sisters here. Who knows, you may even be in a polygynous marriage one day!

    One other reason that reverts in the United States and western Europe may be more open to polygyny is that polygyny is upfront and honest, whereas adultery is not. Most of us have had experience with the trauma of adultery. Even if we did not directly experience it, we all know a family member or a friend that has suffered through adultery. Families and lives have been ripped apart by the lies and deceit that accompany adultery. Women are left alone to rear children, who go through life wondering why their father is not with them but is with his other “real” family. Polygyny gives women and children respect, not disrespect.

    Spirited, now that the test is over can you relax a little?

    KA126 and Aisha2014, how is it going with you?

    I don’t mean to slight anyone, it’s just that these are the sisters that I’m thinking of today.

    May Allah help us all to be the best Muslims that we can be.

    Ana, shukran(thank you) for taking off the code.

  • ummof4

    January 29, 2014

    As-salaamu Alaikum and hello to all the ladies and gentleman,

    I wrote the long post again and it didn’t go through again, maybe because I was on a different computer. Well, I’m not going to try again, maybe it was just the qadr of Allah that the post not be read.

    So, I’ll just read the most recent posts here and respond if I have something to say.

    Love you all for the sake of Allah

  • maryam

    January 29, 2014

    Marie i had to laugh at putting to rest the 8-10s! Enjoy your new wardrobe!

  • maryam

    January 29, 2014

    Wow an explosion of messges!

    Laila im sure your mum does love you as much she probably just doesnt understand your choice to become muslim and maybe that is putting a gap between you?

    Also if your family are picking up on any sadness caused by your marriage they probably blame islam. Thats a very common thing for families to do.

    Id take them sending you the prayer as a nice thing. Showing concern. You can be muslim and relate to them in that way and they can be their religion and relate to you in their way.

    Samira i was just thinking about “true love” yesterday and it came up in your post! I certainly have experienced that giddy, cant-live-without-you romantic love. Very intense and deep yes. Polygamy in that situation would be unbearable for me i think.

    My love for my husband is different. In some ways much stronger. We married each other based on what Allah recommends. It is a calmer type of love, similar in ways to the love i have for my blood family. We hold each other accountable, its a very clear love seeing things as they actually are. I dont feel im giving up, actually the opposite. I feel the way i love my husband is more pure than any other “relationship” love i have experienced.

    Thanks Ana the move is going well alhamdulilah.

  • ana

    January 29, 2014

    Marie, Wa alaikum Salaam

    I’m writing on my phone which I hate. I definitely see how your husband’s other would feel resentful and bitter that he married you first and not her. She’s in an arkward position in that she will be viewed as second wife although she was with him before you. I could understand how she and “c” would feel this way, as I would feel that way, as well, I’m sure.

    I have to run, but will be back, inshallah.

  • marie

    January 29, 2014

    Asalaamu alaykum all,

    Alhamdulilah, everything is as it usually is “others” acting up and we’re carrying on with our lives. I have now finished putting away my UK size 8 and 10 and have filled my wardrobe with my new UK size 14. It doesn’t look like this @ss is going anywhere anytime soon LOL ( hubz isn’t complaining) Alhamdulilah I didn’t have to buy all new abayas as those were a large size anyway. I did have a fun time shopping tho and hubz enjoyed the fashion show when I got back home LOL

    @Ana, just wanted to comment on something you said to another sister I can’t remember who LOL. You said a woman may feel bitter and resentful when a man who had the opportunity to marry her first didn’t and went on to marry someone else. I often wonder why “other” is so angry all the time. Now I’m thinking bitterness and resent may be the reason. As hubz had proposed to her on several occasions before any of us were Muslim and she had said no, then when we (me and hubz) had intention to marry she changed her mind and thought she could swoop in at the last minute and marry him. She thought he would choose her over me. She accepted polygany in the beginning thinking I wouldn’t (which was right) and if hubz was given the choice between me and her, he would choose her. When she wasn’t his first choice and he married me. She backtracked changed her mind about being in a polyganous marriage and became bitter about it. I can understand that and be more considerate of her situation.

    Just wanted to say a big welcome to the new bloggers is so nice to hear from you.

    Oh yes Ana love the “don’t be shy, leave a reply” message it’s so friendly.

    Much salaams to all XOX

  • Samira

    January 29, 2014

    By the way those who are in polygamy know best what they are going through, good or bad. It is better for them to seek out suggestions and advice which goes along with their natural instincts and follow the Quran and the Sunnah. Also they can pick and choose which opinions suit them and which dont. Mine included. No one needs to agree with me, partly or fully. Its just my own research I have been doing for a while, but I am also open to new ideas and opinions of others.

  • Samira

    January 29, 2014

    Personally I just dont want women (or men) to give up on having true love in their lives or living the dreams they have always dreamt. Yes we should follow the Quran and the Sunnah, because we are Muslims first and ultimately Allah knows what is best for us, in this life or in the Akhirah or both for us, and make the best out of it if possible, good or bad, with our human limitations. We can only pray and continue doing whatever we feel we should do.

    Also I have seen those who believe in monogamy alone dont seem to believe they can have the relationship they want with that person. I see too many single people already feeling deluded on this matter, and their energy itself is off-putting, as its these people who are more likely than not gonna step out of line with their partner, since they already believe inside they cant have what they want. People who are more positive in their dreams (while being partly in touch with reality aswell) have a better energy about them. I guess it could be applied to polygamy aswell, for some people who can handle it, if it is with the right person and not for a host of wrong reasons for going into it.

    Well I am done talking lol. I hope you people are doing well currently. I have my final exams for this semester (I am doing engineering) in a few days and I am typing here happy Off I go, take care guys

  • Samira

    January 29, 2014

    Assalamualaikum Ana,

    Yes you are right about us Muslims accepting the entire Quran. But since this blog is about polygamy, that is why I was talking specifically about the polygamy issue. The reason why I mentioned about husbands showing more justice and kindness to his wives in polygamy is because sharing a spouse is a delicate issue, and our partner is someone we share our heart and soul with, and also our body. We dont do this with our parents, not even with our children, although we have unconditional love for them. So mistreatment in this case is more sensitive than anywhere else. Some women even say they are better off facing physical abuse and childbirth pain than face injustice in polygamy. This is not because of fairytale in our minds, this is how alot of us may feel in reality.

    In Quran it is said to hold on to the Rope of Allah (3:103), which according to interpretation includes the Quran and the pure Sunnah (actions and teachings of the Prophet (PBUH)). This includes his sayings aswell. So the part about a man committing a major sin by being discriminating in giving the rights of the wives is a Hadith aswell. There are some things which are briefly or barely mentioned in the Quran but elaborated in the Sunnah. Such as performing Salah, which is elaborated in the Hadith (deeds and sayings of the Prophet (PBUH) recorded by authentic and researched sources).

    Even in the Quran it is mentioned that even if polygamy upto four is permissible, if a man is not able to deal justly with multiple wives (which is more probable than not), its better for him to take just one. Now since there are only a couple of lines in the Quran on polygamy, that is why people mention these again and again.

    Now of course a man and woman should both try to show justice and kindness to each other whether or not they are monogamous or polygamous. But in polygamy since more people are involved, so it is harder. In cases where polygamy seems to go very wrong, atleast one person in the marriage was not following the Quran and the Sunnah, usually the husband. Yes he has many more obligations now, but in polygamy following the Prophet’s (PBUH) and his wives example is even more critical than in monogamy, or there will be difficulties without this foundation.

    Now if there were problems regarding the husband not dividing his time fairly or devoiding his wives from other rights, the wife should probably speak to her husband about it, and try to deal with the problems like if she were monogamously married. Now we are human, and we should be forgiving over flaws here and there, but not be too lenient aswell on giving up our rights lest we feel resentful. That is about it.

  • Laila

    January 29, 2014

    I think being a Muslim is a tough job. Being a polygamous Muslim…. way tougher! But just the other day as I was sleeping… i actually talked in my sleep! I said, dear God thank you for the troubles im going through… its making me tougher…. hubbs woke me up… he asked me whether im okay, and just wanted to take the day off. I declined. So mum and I are talking. But I dont expect anything out of her. Im well aware of where I stand. Funnily, now she just called me. Asked me to take her cat to the vet. Wonder why her other daughter whos a devout Sikh / best daughter in the world cant do it. Sorry if I sound mean. Just going through an emotional roller coaster with family that doesnt provide any form of support whatsoever…

  • Laila

    January 29, 2014

    My mum was forcing me to attend and I was in pain. The stitches were out but I was still sore due to the wound. My temper was short and I told her my feelings. I told her that I dont care anymore if shes not part of my life and that she can run to my sisters hse but never even want to visit mine because of my faith. To make matters worse the other day she sent me a text message about Sikh prayers that are good to read. I sent her a text saying Im a Muslim so dont bother sending such texts to me

  • Laila

    January 29, 2014

    I expected my mum to come and stay with me for a few days. Well she knew how I was and she didnt come at all…. she told me in the past that she doesnt like staying in my home due to the Islamic pictures and writings I have around the house. So this time, I felt so alone. I didnt bother hubbs but I felt it. Then my sister whos not talking to me used my mum to get me to attend her daughters birthday function.

  • Laila

    January 29, 2014

    Dear Ana, I know, I do have a tendency to go….. quiet 😆 will work on that Insyaallah. Everyone here is family, and family members need to be updated. Ive been quiet because…. i had a huge meltdown…. I cried and broke down and was going through my ‘thing’. Since Ive converted to Islam, I feel my mum doesnt love me the same. As you all know I was not able to do much. I couldnt shower properly or even comb my hair or even wear my clothes….

  • ana

    January 29, 2014

    Dear Laila,

    I was wondering what happened to you. Then I thought again; you have a tendency to disappear sometimes. Anyhow, I’m glad you’re back. happy I’ll make duah you have a speedy recovery with regard to your finger. Hang in there with it.

    I really like your posts. I’m 100% with you on what you’ve stated. You made me chuckle when you said there is no letter of notice on the door when it comes to polygamy. Polygamy simply hits us. There is no easy way to let us down with it. If we don’t want it, we don’t want it regardless of how it’s given to us. We will experience the pain.

    About privacy, I had thought quite some time ago with regard to me, Alex and what his other may come to know about me. Now, I don’t care what she knows (other than what Alex doesn’t want her to know, so he doesn’t have to hear her bellyache). She has an open book about me here to read. I hope she enjoys it. The less I know about her the better. Try not to worry about what your husband’s other knows about you. Does it really matter?

    Although, I could understand that you wouldn’t want her to know of your injury. Some people are happy when some calamity or misfortune happens to us. sigh In a case like it, I’d prefer Alex kept his mouth shut, which I think he would. Allah knows best.

    Well, back to bed for me. It’s 7:10 a.m. here where I am. I have my first appointment with the allergist this afternoon. Chat with you later, Insha Allah.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    January 29, 2014

    Samira,

    We as Muslims must accept the entire Quran, if we expect to enter Paradise/Jannah. We can’t pick and choose what we like from the Quran and dismiss the rest. Even if we don’t have to live polygamy, (Allah swt hasn’t decreed polygamy for everyone), it is something that we need to accept is part of our way of life and we need to find a way to embrace it. I think anyone who speaks out against polygamy is treading in deep water.

    There are abuses and problems in both monogamous and polygamous marriages. The major problem in polygamous marriages is women inability or accept polygamy for themselves. If Allah permits polygamy for men, there will be women who will live it, as men can’t engage in polygamy alone. Do men have problems in living out polygamy, yes they do. There are problems for the men and women. Maybe it’s a blessing, maybe it’s a curse, only Allah knows.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    January 29, 2014

    @Samira,

    Yes, you are correct. Living polygamy is a difficult pill to swallow. It does get way better for some in time, but it takes a lot of work and effort and the help of Allah.

    Regarding what you quoted about the man’s body being half paralyzed on the Day of Judgement, that saying is from a Hadith. It’s not in the Holy Quran and isn’t even alluded to in the Quran. It amazes me that when it comes to polygamy it’s the first expression that is thrown out there by many. Samirah, I know you’re only repeating what you’ve heard. I’m not attacking you. So, please don’t take offense.

    In the Quran, Allah swt speaks of people being raised up blind on the Day of Judgement because they were blind (not their eyes) in this life. He says he leaves out the Quran what was in earlier Books (Gospel, Torah and others) that is now unnecessary and He has in the Quran what is necessary. Not to say that any paralyzed people were ever mentioned in any “Book” (Gospel, Torah and others).

    I always ask, what would a man care if he is raised up lopsided or paralyzed on the day of Judgement? If he’s looking like that, he’s going to the Hellfire anyhow. There won’t be lopsided, paralyzed people in Paradise/Jannah. I doubt, a husband not being just or kind to a wife would, in and of itself, be what landed him in the Hellfire. What? Is telling a man that he’ll be looking that way on the Day of Judgement going to have an impact to make him straighten up? I doubt it. Forget being lopsided or half paralyzed, if the mere thought of having to enter the Hellfire doesn’t do it then nothing will. Allah swt is very explicit and descriptive in the Holy Quran about what the Hellfire is like. That alone should make anyone straighten up and fly right.

    Many Muslims speak about justice and kindness with regard to men treatment of women in polygamous marriages as though it’s something more special than in any other situation. Throughout the Quran, Allah speaks of kindness and Justice and tells us to be kind and just to ALL people, including parents, unless they fight us for our faith or try to get us to believe in other than Him. The only other for which kindness and justice is emphasized pertains to orphans. Orphans are very special. The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), as we know, was an Orphan.

    I haven’t read anything in the Quran that indicates polygamy is all that special anymore than any type of marriage is be it monogamous or polygamous. Allah in the Quran limits the number of wives to four. The ayah that some want to say speaks of kindness and justice with regard to polygamy speaks of the orphans. There are a number of ayat in the very same Surah that addresses the orphans. It’s important that if a many marries women with children that aren’t his that he treats them the same as any of his biological children. He’s to be kind and just to them. Some many marry women and only want the women not their children. Sometimes those children end up being neglected and abused.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Laila

    January 29, 2014

    I think issues arise when theres power play between the wives and the man is weak in his judgements. Thats when I think polygamy gets real tough. Thats when I think people / public just make carried away assumptions.

  • Laila

    January 29, 2014

    Sorry but theres no letter of notice on our door steps in regards to this matter. We as wives have to find a way to cope and also see and realize that our husbands arent our property / thing. We all belong to Allah s.w.t. if he plans to remarry then we have to be open to the idea and be the best spouse. After all, we are the mirror image of what we would want in a spouse. Sorry if my comments were harsh. Just my thoughts.

  • Laila

    January 29, 2014

    Im happy to say that I did my part by telling him that he better marry her than to commit zina. At least all is out in the open. Theres no time frame or warning when a husband decides to remarry. We as wives must be the better person and welcome the change. As much as our hearts are broken / and in anger, personally I rather my husband remarry then to commit zina. He also has to be a leader and be fair.

  • Laila

    January 29, 2014

    Im sorry if my post sounds jumbled up. But sometimes I do wonder. A lot of us will jump if it happened to us personally. As everyone knows im a second wife. I DID go through the phase where he was secretly seeing another woman. But looks like their intentions were wrong. Because when I touched on marriage all fizzled out. But I too went through a roller coaster of emotions.

  • Laila

    January 29, 2014

    This is the time when the wife feels that theres lack of communication / love / loyalty. I know that I myself go through these feelings when my co magically finds things out. Thats why I hide so much from him. I know at the back of my mind hes not telling her about whats happening on my side. But I cant help it. I love my privacy. How do we deal with it when a man decides to take on another? ….. do we have tools that we can use to empower ourselves?

  • Laila

    January 29, 2014

    Its difficult when a man tells his wife he wants to remarry. Yes if our faith is strong we can just go through that part of our lives smoothly. But as a woman, we start to re-evaluate our behaviour, actions, how we have treated the whole marriage. In short… the woman goes through a phase where she probably feels that shes been hit by a huge truck!

  • Laila

    January 29, 2014

    Sorry but Im typing from my handphone. I believe men and women lack communication / respect when they fall into the comfort zone level of their relationship. Sometimes they feel that words and expressing ‘irrelevant information’ isnt needed. Ive experienced that so many times with my husband. In fact what a coincidence, I was just thinking why have we come here in our relationship…..

  • Laila

    January 29, 2014

    Dear all and Ana, sorry for my silence. Ive got my stitches out last week and I was living on pain killers. The nurse is a bit surprised as to why my wound hasn’t recovered fully. Well, im feeling much better now. I read the introduction to this new thread and I totally AGREE! 😃 I for one know whether youre in a monogamous or polygamous set up / marriage will always have the lack of respect issue.

  • Samira

    January 29, 2014

    @ana

    I guess you could be right. Since I havent experienced polygamy for myself or talked to real life women who are religious and experiencing polygamy, I cannot really make a sound judgement on it. I never said the women who practise polygamy are part of a pity party, rather for alot of women it seems like her feelings and emotions doesnt seem to be acknowledged properly, especially at the beginning, so she can move on with it and decide to either live it according to Islam or perhaps leave her husband if it gets too hard.

    All this provided her husband treats her with due justice and kindness and gives her the equal rights she deserves. If not, it is actually said her husband would be making a grave sin.

    “A man who has two wives and does not deal justly with them will be resurrected on the Day of Judgement with half his body paralysed.” (Sunan Tirmizi, no.1141).

    So yeah. I commend all women who are religious and living the life of polygamy, because it still sounds like a difficult pill to swallow lol.

  • ana

    January 29, 2014

    Valuable star and Samira, I find it somewhat disturbing that there are people who look at Muslim women who live a life that consist of polygamy as being victims who need pity. The women here express their feelings and thoughts about sharing husbands. When a husband becomes polygamous the wife usually always feels pain. Acceptance of polygamy is a process. It doesn’t happen over night. People who aren’t Muslim or those who dislike polygamy look at it as a terrible life for Muslims. No one talk about all the women who are not Muslim who are out there suffering each and everyday because their boyfriends left them for other women (after having gotten all the sex they wanted from them) and they broke the girlfriends’ hearts or their husbands have mistresses on the side, or visit prostitutes, or can’t stop watching porn etc. There are a whole lot of fornicators and adulterer that aren’t Muslim, as well. Who is looking at them? No one, as their conduct is consider the norm. Yet, when a Muslim man “marries”, mind you, another woman and becomes polygamous, he’s considered a bad guy. Many Muslim women were not raised to learn and live Islam. Culture has played a major part in mostly everyone lives, including those of us living in the States or the U.K. We grew up on the Cinderella story and the knight in Shining armor who will come to rescue us, Prince Charming, the happily ever after. We have to unlearn what we’ve learned. A Muslim woman experiences the same feelings as the women out there who are non-Muslim who deal with cheating and lying boyfriends and husbands. Many of them are Christians and Jew, etc. The teaching of those religions is that fornication and adultery are sins, yet many of the very Christians and Jews who say they are Christians or Jews fornicate and commit adultery. Yes, there are Muslims who fornicate and commit adultery, as well. Why when the man wants to MARRY another woman and not fornicate or commit adultery it is wrong? It sounds that non-Muslims condone fornication and adultery, as if to say, fornicate and have sex with whomever you want as much as you want; don’t get caught and don’t marry her. i dont know It’s backwards. There are a lot of broken hearts out there the same as are in here (writing on this blog). Who is researching them? The only way Muslims are going to become different than the non-Muslims, and become successful and prosperous they must become Believers. It makes the difference. A Believer strives for Jannah/Paradise. A believer works on the purification of the soul in an effort to get there. Yes, many of us struggle with this lifestyle, but we know that Allah promises us relief after hardship. He says He created us into toil and struggle. He says we will be tested. He says He will dispose of our affairs towards comfort and ease. He tells us He test some of us by way of others. A husband could be tested with his wives. A wife could be tested with her husband.Parents are tested with their children. We have to do our part in worshiping Allah so that we could receive all the good that He promises us. This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    January 29, 2014

    @maryam,

    Nice post! happy I especially like the part in which you stated, “think its important to remember our husbands, like ourselves, are slaves of Allah. He is not my slave and i am not his. He is not my world and i not his. We agree we are sharing a path towards jannah and helping each other with that. In that context sharing a husband is not a bad thing. It becomes bad when we get caught up in modern romantic concepts of love that dictates we should be the centre of each others lives.”

    I pray the best for you in your move. You and Gail’s got a lot of good stuff going on.

    @Gail,

    I’m glad you didn’t jump ship and leave us. The property you are interested in sounds lovely. It could be exactly what you and hubs need to move you forward. You’ve got to find a way to let go of what happened in the past. It’s over. It happened and you can’t turn back the hands of time to make it different. You said you forgave him. Maybe you cannot totally forget, but try not to let your mind linger on the thought of what happened. See this as a new beginning for the two of you. happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Gail

    January 29, 2014

    Ana,
    No I did not abandon you ladies just been really busy lately.I found a home that I am interested in and had to go see it.The home is a dump to say the least and will need to completely redone from foundation to roof but the location is the best in the village and the price is well cheaper than cheap.The property sits right across the street from the villages walking park with a huge pond and ducks.Hubby is not jumping for joy over the thought of having to work on the property and the challenges that are going to come with it.I am excited to see if it pans out.I am so in love with the location and have a vision.lol
    As far as respect in polygamous marriages I don’t think so simply because the majority of the people are looking to their spouse to be on their side when push comes to shove and a cowife just don’t fit into that picture for most people.Wives want loyalty and when they do not get it because a husband decides to practice polygamy they hold deep deep resentment against him I feel.In my case I will never understand how a man that claimed to love me could hurt me so bad.I will go as far as to say I honestly feel I was physically and emotionally violated by the person who claimed to love me the most.I even told my husband last night that I truly feel he is not a morally good person.That all he thinks about is himself and his feelings and what he wants and until he faces the reality of what he did to excowife and I he can’t really progress in this life.Sadly it is not even my responsibility to care for my deceptive excowife that was his responsibility.I am not a good person to ask about this topic.lol

  • maryam

    January 28, 2014

    I do think its pretty much impossible for someone who is not submitting to Allah to even tolerate the idea of polygamy. But i respect that people are at least trying. Im still on the journey myself.

    It reminds me a bit how people view hijab in different ways. To an outsider it looks unnecessary, uncomfortable, even restrictive. But any sister wearing hijab will tell you it feels the opposite. This is the working of islam, a non-believer only sees a piece of material, a believer feels the inner peace and strength that comes from it. Iman. That is islam to me, whatever we see on the surface the real benefits are much deeper in our hearts and souls.

    Personally i cant accept islam and the Quran but choose to disagree with or reject polygamy. I have experienced enough signs to believe in islam, therefore i accept P. My nature is monogamous but i trust Allah knows best. And polygamy is an option, it is not compulsory or even recommended above monogamy. For those that want it Allah will hold them accountable for it.

    Polygamy is a test for some and like all tests can elevate us beyond what we thought capable.

    Also while polygamy is a struggle for some sisters it isnt for others. I think the sisters who find this website are struggling. I know a sister from africa who prefers polygamy. We have different levels of possessiveness, jealousy etc. And while some men may not practise polygamy well, others will. Allah will deal with that.

    I think its important to remember our husbands, like ourselves, are slaves of Allah. He is not my slave and i am not his. He is not my world and i not his. We agree we are sharing a path towards jannah and helping each other with that. In that context sharing a husband is not a bad thing. It becomes bad when we get caught up in modern romantic concepts of love that dictates we should be the centre of each others lives.

  • maryam

    January 28, 2014

    Salam alaikum all and new ladies,

    I have had a brief read but actually am in the process of moving both house and city. I will touch base again when settled.

    All the best to everyone.

  • Samira

    January 28, 2014

    @ana,

    Thank you for welcoming me to this blog, or house, as you call it happy I like the fact that a support group for Muslim women living polygamous lifestyles has been made here. It is good for people as well who may not be polygamous to learn from their experiences.

    By the way I am sorry if I sounded overly idealistic in my previous letter in any way. Actually I have been reading many comments on the previous posts on polygamy, but I could feel alot of the women’s frustrations at being unable to express their feelings or why they are feeling that way in the first place about something permissible. That is why I decided to lay it out on the open on human feelings and psychology so people can better understand themselves, and also feel understood, that they are not alone for feeling that way.

    After feeling more accepted and understood, they can go ahead and choose the best course of action for their current situation, to make it better, or live better by the Quranic laws regarding it. Every person’s situation is different and may be far from idealistic, which is part of real life.

    And yeah, I have yet to properly read the Quran on this issue, although I do know that polygamy is permissible for men and also slaves from how it was back in the Prophet’s time. Allah has His own wisdom for everything. But women’s nature is also described as to how it is and men are required to treat them with justice and kindness. And by the way, at times some women too may have polygamous thoughts for herself, just saying sort of, but due to Allah’s own wisdom she is required to marry only one at a time. I appreciate your further thoughts on this since you are living out polygamy.

    @Valuable star

    Thank you for appreciating my post and comments, it means alot to me. You can comment here and I will try to reply back. Your field of study sounds interesting happy

  • ana

    January 28, 2014

    @Valuable star & Samira,

    I can tell you that all the research you’re doing to try to understand polygamy as part of Islam and not as an alternative lifestyle, which it is for some, is useless. To understand polygamy, one has to read and understand the Holy Quran (the words of Allah (God) All the answers are in the Holy Quran. Everything we need to know is in there. The meaning of life is in there. Allah teaches. Allah gives understanding. Allah is the only Reality.

    It’s important to note that Allah says in the Quran, He places a veil between the reader and the unbeliever. ANYONE, Muslim or not, who reads the Quran for other than trying to learn it and live it will not receive any understanding. It is a useless waste of time for them to read it.

    So, with that said, Valuable star, my question to you is why do you want to invest so much time trying to understand something that you can’t?

    I didn’t ask Samira the question, as she is Muslim. She has a chance, if it pleases Allah.

    One can theorize about polygamous marriages, male and female relationships all they want. It’s not real. The fairytale version of a man and woman getting married and living happily ever after is not real, despite that many people, especially women, out there want it to be. It’s part of the reason there are so many unhappily married people suffering, in pain, full of anguish and there is so much divorce.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    January 28, 2014

    Ooops, Valuable Star, I just finished reading your post. I no longer give out email addresses. We no longer do email exchanges here. I’ve had some bad experiences with it in the past, and have found it best not to do it. I find it’s not in the best interest of the blog to do it. Some good has come from email exchanges, but the bad outweighs the good.

    For everyone,

    Just a friendly reminder about posting, with regard to adding links to other websites and blog name dropping, we don’t freely advertise for other websites. Other websites could be found the same way people have found polygamy 411. Maybe one day, if it pleases God, we’ll permit paid advertising here. Links to news articles and media is usually okay. I try to take a look at them on a case by case basis.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    January 28, 2014

    @Valuable star,

    It’s very nice you are still with us happy I apologize to you for being somewhat harsh to you before.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Valuable star

    January 28, 2014

    Hie Ana!

    Thank you so much for welcoming me again!!

  • Valuable star

    January 28, 2014

    Hie Samira!

    Welcome to the blog and I am very glad to have you here….

    About myself: I am a 20 yrs. old student studying in a reputed university providing amazing international exposure in all aspects. I stumbled across a blog on polygamy while preparing a presentation on “VARIOUS ASPECTS OF RELIGIONS”.

    This new aspect of Love and Relationship is something very unexpected and unbelievable for me which people think existed when Woman was helpless in External world and her main identity was- Daughter of _, then Wife of _ and Later Mother of _ and nothing more and so currently struggling with many unanswered questions because people answer it either completely with regard to RELIGION or with respect to just current lifestyle and global trend.

    I am currently doing a research on Human psychology and have done uncountable presentations on this topic after gathering data not only from books but also people and relationship experts. Also To learn many aspects of life have taken advice from many reputed Astrologers and spiritual leaders and have been a seeker in SPIRITUAL SCIENCE RESEARCH FOUNDATION.

    You know what, I have understood well all aspects of life with regard to modern world as well as spirituality except LOVE AND RELATIONSHIPS.So I would love to know your viewpoint on various aspects of relationship and ofcourse you are more than welcome to ask me anything about HUMAN PSYCHOLOGY regarding any scenario also with respect to any reference:0

    To understand polygamy I have also discussed and tried to understand many things from QURAN despite being a non-muslim. Also consulted many muslim men and women to understand it. However as a result of understanding it practically and through people who have been through all this especially women, I must say regarding Polygamy our feelings are mutual!!

    As I have been told this blog is actually meant for those who need help to survive or live Polygamous lifestyle, discussions on psychology and Emotions could be a mere waste of time for them, which I really find genuine and truly respect their feelings.

    So if you really want to discuss anything, I am even ready to give you my personal e-mail address if Ana permits it so that we can really have a discussion on relationships regarding Human psychology, astrology, spirituality, Male’s point if view, Females point of view and many more…

    Wishing you all the very best
    Lots of love

  • ana

    January 28, 2014

    ummof4,

    I am way sorry to hear you lost a post sigh. It’s the last thing we need here as we spend a lot of time, thought and energy putting our words together. I had it happen to me just the other day and the captcha wasn’t activated yet. It’s most frustrating to say the least. Alhumdulliah that you brought it to my attention. I will remove the captcha. Insha Allah, you will re-write your post. I am eager to hear what you have to say.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ummof4

    January 28, 2014

    As-salaamu Alaikum and hello to the ladies and gentleman,

    I just wrote a long post and did not enter the code. So the whole post was lost. If I can remember what I wrote, I’ll try to send it later today. Please make du’ah that Allah restores the words to my memory.

  • ana

    January 28, 2014

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Peace to All,

    @Samira,

    Welcome and thank you for joining us, for telling us a little bit about yourself, and for elaborating about your views about polygamy/polygyny. It’s good for others here to meet you firsthand and have an opportunity to speak directly to you. You could know more of what others think about your position, as well. Many of the people here live polygamy, so we could speak from experience.

    @Valuable Star,

    If you’re still out there and reading, this may be a good time for you to join the discussion. You had indicated you were researching the subject, as well. Perhaps you could tell us a little bit about yourself, as well. I can’t remember whether you have already and I’ve forgotten.

    @Billy,

    Where did you disappear to?

    @Everyone,

    It’s very quiet out there. Is anybody home? Hellooooo…

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Samira

    January 28, 2014

    Hello everyone, I am the original letter writer happy And I am a born Muslim, who was raised in an Arab country with an Islamic education. Polygamy is a topic that is confusing to both single and married people, that is why I decided to write to Ana.

    When I said lack of communication, as you may have guessed, that there could have been problems arising from the husband and/or wife communicating their needs and desires to each other, either because ‘burying head in sand’ was convenient for the time being, or out of fear, or neither really gave much importance to it, or whatever reason. Or maybe one might have tried communicating and the other didnt listen or care much. Till a third party decided to knock on their door and it was too late by then.

    Lack of respect I meant as in the husband did not carefully consider his wife’s feelings about the matter and her possible reactions to it, and how important it is for a woman to be the only one to feel desired and cherished by their husbands and be faithful to them. With all arguments you can bring, this type of emotional security is a biggie for women, that their husband be exclusive to them. If lowering his gaze and being faithful is hard for him, his wife will respect him all the more for it and try to show that to him. If he naturally tends to be exclusive to her and desire her, all the better lol. Just saying how we females are wired thats all.

    Now when a husband informs his first wife about another woman, not only some of her worst fears came true, their lives wont be the same again having a ‘third party family’. If he somewhat disregards her feelings or tell her indirectly to ‘suck it up, coz you are a woman and it is allowed’, that doesnt make things better. Reminding her that it is permitted in Islam and that she should accept it or there is a flaw in her faith makes it all the more worse.

    If a man, after carefully considering the effects of polygamy still decides to go for it, he may gently tell the news to his wife and if possible, take her consent, all the better and easier on the woman if she can accept it without being forced. He should also give her the choice to either accept it or leave. Meanwhile, the woman has every right to vent out her feelings and emotions without being judged in any way. This is only human and sharing a spouse, regardless of gender, hurts and cuts inside a human being.

    The wife can perform prayers and try to draw closer to Allah. A bad experience can also be humbling for a believer. But outside, people shouldnt judge her faith because of her pain in accepting her husband’s other marriage in any way.

    The good polygamous marriages I have seen where a man dealt with honesty with all the women involved, treated them with justice, gave them their rights, and had an open conversation with his first wife and probably took her permission. He kept his portion of obligations to his wives and there was less selfishness and more selflessness involved. If lust was not the primary reason for his other marriage all the better. And yeah, sometimes Allah’s will does decree polygamy on people. But I would still say it is not for everyone, and just because Islam allows it doesnt mean everyone involved needs to feel good about it.

    By the way it is not just women who suffer from polygynous marriages, there are some places where a woman opts for polyandrous marriages (she takes another husband), and the pain and emotions felt by the husband seems exactly the same as it would be a woman in his position. Bottom line, majority human beings, despite having some polygamous instincts, are not well cut-out for sharing their spouses, male or female. Just my opinion.

  • ana

    January 28, 2014

    No problem, sis maryam. I couldn’t sleep (insomnia), so I’m back on the computer, looking for something else to adjust on the site LOL I’m having fun with it now. I didn’t have to get a web designer to do the captcha after all, I just had to add a plugin. Alhumdulliah.

    I really like the discussion that’s taking place.

    Aumer, I am glad you’re still with us. It’s always good to have a male’s perspective.

    Gail, I missed you. Seems Jenny abandoned us. I thought you had flown into the city, and was hanging out with her. I guess it was just my imagination once again, running away from me. LOL

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • maryam

    January 28, 2014

    Yes i was paraphrasing without being specific. You were right to clarify it as hadith. Jazakallah.

  • ana

    January 28, 2014

    maryam,

    If my mind serves me correctly, I believe what you referred to with regard to a woman breaking is from a Hadith, not the Quran. It goes something like – a woman is like a branch, if you try to straighten her, she will break.

    This is an open house no need to knock just come on in.

  • Aumer

    January 28, 2014

    Assalamu alaykum Sr Ana,

    If we borrow ummof4′s classification of polygamous couples in the previous post, I think cases 2 to 4 are where there is a real lack of respect to the wife, resulting in the lack of communication and thus the husband goes secretly committing all sorts of wrong things secretly.

    However, case 1 as in a polygamous couple where all parties are informed and know their rights and duties, I think this wouldn’t truly work unless there is respect and proper communications are established. That isn’t to say that some husbands are abusive as you mentioned, but I think we’re talking about the healthy polygamous families and not the exceptions.

    Now of course people of Muslim faith (Arabs, Pakistanis, converts, etc) would be the ‘most’ involved in polygamous marriages, since they find it permissible according to Islam. It’s natural for them to think of polygamy as a first hand solution when there’s a void.

    I do admire your emphasis on the acceptance of Allah swt’s will and wisdom, though I highly doubt she would understand the point if she’s not a Muslim herself.

    And Allah swt knows best

  • maryam

    January 28, 2014

    I accept and respect that my husband has a right to polygamy in islam and perhaps that is in his nature.

    Likewise i expect him to accept and respect that monogamy is in my nature and polygamy would cause me some hurt.

    I do, rightly or wrongly, expect him to try to minimise that hurt.

    Throughout the Quran Allah tells men to treat women kindly, gently, not to break us. I think this applies in polygamy for sure. I do think more is required than just being fair and just.

  • maryam

    January 28, 2014

    Good points, yes.

    Lack of communication definitely. I think that is because the husband under estimates how severe or long lasting some of the problems that arise will be. When conflict continues he buries his head in the sand. Which does nothing to help.

    Lack of respect in some cases yes when polygamy arises from haram relationships both the current wife and girlfriend (?) are not respected. The man is also showing no self-respect.

    A man who looks for polygamy in a halal way with pure intentions (ie lust not being the main reason) i think is showing more respect to everyone and fear of Allah. I do believe a man who tries to alleviate the fears anf comfort a wife at the early stages of polygamy is showing more respect.

    Yes i agree about reverts possibly being more open to P because we dont have cultural hangups. But there are other reasons too. Alot of haram relationships start at work and many reverts work. Alot of cultural muslims encourage their daughters to be educated but often do not encourage them to enter the workforce. Its like education gets your better marriage proposals not a better job!

    Reverts may often have more independence from their families to choose who to marry and if living alone etc have more opportunity to engage in “dating” a married man.

    Often reverts can come to islam previousky married and/or with children and maybe some people think that immediately relegates them to polygamy situation?

    Migration, visas etc where men are away from homeland mixing freely. Even tourism when women travel to muslim countries and fall in love.

    I also think some people accept things from a person because he comes from a different culture. Like the lovely girl i worked with she would never have had an affair with a married english guy but did with the turkish man. Maybe its just seen as part of the exotic appeal.

    The one thing i struggle with most is trying to understand why man may have been created polygamous by nature and women monogamous by nature? Its seems like a “perfect storm”, a perfect conflict. I dont understand it but i accept and trust Allah for deciding what is best and I dont expect to have to know everything. Trust is part of the test. I have seen proof in so many other ways that i trust in this.

  • Gail

    January 28, 2014

    Ana,
    I see you got the site back up and running it seems.I tried to post a few times through the week but for some reason it would not post.Glad to see the blog is back up and running.

  • ana

    January 27, 2014

    I ask everyone to be mindful that I don’t speak above about the women who have been physically, mentally or emotionally abused by their husbands. I speak only of women who cannot cope with their husbands having become polygamous. There is a difference. The husbands acted on what Allah swt permits. If they’ve done something wrong in the course of it, they will account to Allah swt for it. The husband’s act of doing what Allah permits causes the wives pain, anguish and suffering. Why?

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    January 27, 2014

    As Salaamu Alaikum and Peace to All,

    peace

    Once again we are at the start of a new thread. For those who wish to continue to read the previous thread or would like to refresh their memories, the previous thread was: http://polygamy411.com/where-do-you-fit-in-polygamy/

    I thank Allah swt much for each and every one of you who have joined us here, and have become a member of our group. Alhumdulliah (All praise is due to Allah).

    polygamy 411

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.