I’ve Got it Maid!

polygamy 411Muhammad Al-Ghamdi says that he was happily married to his first wife, who bore him three sons. When household duties became too much for her, she asked Muhammad to hire a maid. The maid was a pretty Indonesian Muslim who was well treated by the wife until Muhammad began to show too much interest in her. Things got so bad that one day the wife began to beat the maid.

Muhammad says, “I told her to fear God and threatened to marry the maid if she didn’t stop mistreating her. Things got worse so I decided to carry out my threat. I got the maid an exit/re-entry visa and we traveled to Indonesia together and got married.

“When my wife found out, she demanded a divorce and I agreed. What is strange though is that my children love, and are more attached to, my second wife — ‘the maid’ — than they are to their mother because my second wife treats them better.”

Samira told Sayidaty, a sister publication of Arab News, that she had been married more than 25 years and, with her husband’s consent, worked as a teacher at a government school. Due to her neglect of some household duties, the maid began taking responsibility for the house and the children. Her husband began to rely on her more and more.

“I noticed that he was paying her a lot of attention but I didn’t think much about it. Then he began to compare us, saying that the maid knew where everything was in the house and was more attentive to him than I was.

“I felt that I was neglecting him and the children, but my responsibilities at work overwhelmed me. My husband threatened to marry another woman but I thought it was just talk.”

Sometime later, the maid went on her annual vacation. A week after she left, Samira’s husband told her he had to attend an international conference. When he returned, she was surprised to see the maid on his side; he had traveled to her country and married her there.

“I was shocked of course, but I accepted her, thinking that I would dedicate my time to my work while she took care of the house. She still lives with us and has a child but my husband has been unable to get permission for the marriage and now regrets it.”

Zainab Al-Harbi has a similar story and says that as soon as the maid entered the picture, problems began as her husband began to grow close to the maid. One day he handed her divorce papers. A week later she learned that her husband had married the maid and she is convinced that it had all been due to black magic.

Siham Ahmad says that she and her husband hired an Indonesian maid who was about the age of their eldest son. The two were attracted to each other and the maid got pregnant. “We decided to allow them to marry in order to avoid a scandal,” Siham said.

Noura Muhammad says that since the family hired Suhair, a beautiful and cultured Arab maid, she has been jealous of her. Her husband and children regularly consult her and treat her so respectfully that in the end she became the housewife taking care of everyone’s needs, especially the husband, who decided to marry her.

“I asked for a divorce and don’t regret it,” said Noura.

Maryam, an Indonesian maid who married her sponsor, says that his first wife was employed outside and in the evenings, she was busy with her social life. “She left the house, her children and her husband in my care; my sponsor appreciated my eight years of hard work and asked me to marry him. I agreed, especially since his children like me.”

Zahra was once a maid and says that she worked for a family for 10 years and was treated well. The wife fell ill unexpectedly and died; the husband was severely affected by her death and became ill and bed-ridden. “I took care of him and when he got better, he said that he would marry me in return for all my hard work and because his children loved me. I agreed and we have now three children.”

Saeeda Muhammad from Africa says that she worked for a Saudi family who treated her well and made her feel like a member of the family. The couple had five daughters but the husband wanted a son and as a result, problems arose between the two that led to divorce.

“I stayed in the house taking care of the husband and his daughters for more than a year. Then one day he asked my father for my hand in marriage. We are now married and have a son.”

An official who deals with marriages, Ahmad Abdel Qader Al-Moaibi, says that if the marriage is undertaken in the legal way — after obtaining a license from the authorities and having the marriage registered in the courts — then it is valid. Maids are human beings who have been forced to seek work owing to circumstances.

“If we were to assign fault, then much of the time it falls on the wife who absents herself from the house and its responsibilities and pays no attention to her husband who then marries the maid,” he said.

The kind of marriage, however, in which a contract is signed between a Saudi and a foreigner working illegally in the country or between a couple who travel outside the Kingdom to get married can only be temporary. Too often they end in divorce, leaving in their wake tragedies and social dangers.

Credit for the above information: “Maids Who End Up as Wives” by Jamal Abdul Khaliq – National News Jeddah, Friday, May 20, 2011

Polygamy 411 thanks our special commentator “Khadija” for bringing the article to our attention and for sharing the article with us.

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208 Comments

  • ana

    July 5, 2014

    @goldenboy,

    Hello. Welcome and thank you for commenting. happy

    You shed some light on the maid problem from a different perspective. She seduced her master In Deep Thought yes, I could see it. Ruining a happy marriage? Happy or not, most men desire more than one woman. When it comes to a maid, a nanny, a babysitter, or a secretary et al. there is a chance a man may become attracted to the employee and vice versa. It happens maybe more often than we are aware of.

    goldenboy, thank you for sharing.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • goldenboy

    July 5, 2014

    Ana
    I found this as pretty maids ruining the families by seducing their master. Morever men ever increasing sexual desire to have physical attachment to a another women. You have not mentioned this aspect. maid here pictured are lucky They come from poor familes got their lifepartner ruinning the happy marriage. I cannot stand with the maids. so only elder maids60ys and above should be send to such homes and not pretty ones.

  • ana

    June 30, 2014

    Ceaza a ceaza,

    I agree with you that a husband and wife are asking for trouble when they bring a “maid” into the home. I don’t think it is unusual for a man to see the woman (maid) in the home performing wifely duties (cooking and cleaning) and he thinks about the sexual duty, as well. I see how some men would fantasize about having the woman as a wife, especially, as polygamy is permissible for men. The woman who obviously must be of meager means may very well, herself, fantasize about how it would be to have the man of the house, as her husband. A woman could have a maid in the home; however, should have her there when the husband isn’t. The husband shouldn’t come in contact with the maid. Nonetheless, there isn’t anything wrong with the husband marrying the maid, as long as no lust is involved. What’s the problem if she needs a husband and he has the wherewithal to care for her i dont know I totally understood “Lynn’s” situation, and how she was upset in that she feels the maid betrayed her. It’s not something a woman could get over easily. Lynn placed “trust” in that woman.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ceaza a ceaza

    June 29, 2014

    If someone is polygamous why get a maid or have a women occupying ur home if the woman is not your wife in the first place? Isn’t that asking for trouble? ..a maid and a wife does also to the same duties only that the maid doesn’t get intimate with the husband.. But these two things cross similar lines and eventually is tempt the two to get intimate.. She might as well had been ur wife. In my opinion there is no such things as a maid .. Either she’s ur wife or not.. If she is not ur wife she has no business occupying ur home.

    And I wanted to talk about fearing god. If god is all loving and loves us then why should we fear it besides the obvious reason that it’s all powerful. And why do women neglect the female aspect of god? They need this aspect in order to understand how to work in balance with heir men instead of being slaves to them.

    In my opinion god did not create us to scare us or to show that he/she is better than us.. That’ll be considered and love self esteem god. We are encourage to know ourselves so that we can be the gods that it created us to be. We are god and god is us. Wg were not created to worship or serve think about it , then what would be the point of life? That’s not love that slavery.. Y’all should double check ur god.. No disrespect on any level but polygamy will never work until we realize ourselves as god. Like parent like children .. Wh r of it’s likeness and should behave as god by setting up our ancestral altars

  • ana

    June 24, 2011

    Due to the overwhelming number of comments (204), we must now closed this post. All are encouraged to comment at http://polygamy411.com/about-polygamy-411/ until a newer post is created or comment on any other open post that you select.

    Thank you happy

    “Whatever it be wherein ye differ, the decision thereof is with Allah: Such is Allah my Lord: in Him I trust and to Him I turn.” Quran Surah 42, Iyat 10

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Jenny

    June 24, 2011

    @ Huda and Nura,

    Allah is all-knowing and he knows every detail of my life and whether or not I will pass the test. However, I do not know this! Allah wants followers who submit to his will, not hostages. With that he gives us the choice to pick up a bottle of alcohol or commit zina. Even though he knows what we will do, we don’t know what we will do.

    Allah gives us the opportunity to put him first in our life by making the right choices. Sometimes in his wisdom, he is there with us when we make the wrong choice and uses it for good in our lives.

    Allah wants his people to choose to follow him and make decisions based on what a Muslim should choose. He doesn’t want or need robots.

  • huda

    June 24, 2011

    Asalaam Alaikum

    I know I have been out of the loop for a while, but just wanted to pop in and add a comment on a subject I have commented on many times before.

    Nura you made an excellent point when you stated;
    “How is anything a test when we have NO choices in how to respond.”
    Throughout the Holy Qur’an, Allah(SWT) says that life on earth is a test for human beings. They will be rewarded by living an everlasting life in Paradise if they pass it, or they will be punished in the hellfire if they fail it. This means that human beings have a choice to do right or wrong, simple as that. I agree with you Nura, if we had no choice, what is the point of the test?

    Allah created us, therefore Allah knows us better than we know ourselves. Allah will know what we will do EVERYTIME, HE knows our past, present and future simultaneously, HE knows what is in our heart, our intentions and the choices we will make. For this reason Allah has recorded everything down before we were created; our destiny.

    So Allah (SWT) has the foreknowledge of all human action, however, this divine knowledge does not prevent humans from making some choices in their lives. Allah presents us with choices, cross the road, don’t cross the road, buy this house, don’t buy this house, marry this person, don’t marry this person. We ultimately make the decision the difference is ALLAH already knows the decision we will make.

    much salaam

  • ana

    June 23, 2011

    You’re giving me a friggin headache, Nura. Take it easy!
    laughing

    Look, everyone believe what they want to believe about “free will”. I will continue with my belief, and write based on it. No pressure on anyone here.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    June 23, 2011

    Nura, You have to believe what ALLAH ALLOWS you believe. He tells us NOT everyone will believe, regardless of how much we may want them to. Allah determined who would be Muslims, who would be believers and who will accept and who will reject all or any of that which He says. I’m not here to watch over yours and anyone else affairs. I don’t write convincingly; I write based on Truth.

    You said, “What is jihad anyway ana? How is there any value to struggle or pain or success if Allah is just orchestrating his own little concert like some megalomaniac god in a star trek episode?What would be the POINT?”

    We do the jihad because we don’t know what Allah has written for us and we strive for Paradise.

    What is the point? Allah will tell you what the point is on the Day of Judgment.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • nura

    June 23, 2011

    Ana, most of life is nothing to brag about. Most of it is mundane workaday stuff. Bragging is different than saying, “I am blessed that Allah allowed me to escape” “to provide for myself”, “that I wasn’t hurt more badly than I was,” or that “I was born when there was modern medical assistance so I didn’t die in childbirth”. You know what-it isn’t bragging to say that you worked hard. Or to acknowledge that Allah can give or take away. I think for the most part, he lets us do this thing on a improv basis though, with nudges when it suits him. Otherwise, it doesn’t make sense to bother with us at all-it would just be cruelty with no purpose. How is anything a test when we have NO choices in how to respond.

    How are we tested? Essay, T/F multiple choice, right or wrong. Lady or the tiger, money or religion, Ok? We know the choices, we have parameters. But if we have no choices, there is no point to the damn test, Ana. I refuse to think my life is some cosmic farce to entertain the creator with some script he wrote, planned, directed.

    Is this the MATRIX??? Creepy movie, btw.

  • nura

    June 23, 2011

    “No misfortune can happen on earth or in your souls but is recorded in a decree before We bring it into existence: That is truly easy for Allah:”
    Quran: Surah 57, Iyat 22

    No argument, but think. A written report of facts by a reporter does not mean that they CAUSED the facts to happen as they did. The reporter records the information. Allah has the eternal view. We live in this time ‘continuum’. We don’t have a long range view. He does. He knows what we will do, how we will respond and what the results will be. And before we were born, he can give us miracles written in it, helpers,and whatever he wants, but that doesn’t mean he gives us no choices. It doesn’t mean we will be rescued from all calamities. It doesn’t mean he desired and plotted for anyone’s eyes to be clawed out by the man they married. He has the bigger view.

  • nura

    June 23, 2011

    Dear Ana, I will address what I can. You said, “The question is: Do you believe that before we were born Allah wrote what we all would do and be and the ink is dry, or do you believe Allah has all these little mini gods, each and everyone of us, running around with power and control, making things happen? If you believe we have power to do what we want, you believe Allah has partners, we are His partners and we all have power. You’re saying we rule and control the earth with Allah. Are you saying we share in his dominion? Is that what you believe?”

    My belief is that Allah knows every decision we will make, and our fate is written by what he knows, not by what he forces. In other words, he is beyond time, he knows everything we will do, every choice we will make, and thus,he knows our fate.

    You said, “No one remains in a bad situation because of their choice. They simply remain in a bad situation because Allah has placed them in it and they can’t leave until He removes them from it. They may think it’s their choice to stay in it and others may think that as well. Why don’t you answer the question: what is Allah saying when He says there is no power or might except in Him? What does it mean? Does it mean you have power??? Who is right, you or Allah?” I fully believe that Allah does have our fate written, and HE wrote it, but we have to live it. I don’t think I am stuck in a pile of shit because Allah places me there. He allows me to wallow in it like a pig if I so choose. But I can choose. He knows what I will choose, and he already has made choices about how how he will further or belay my choices, but he gave me the choice. If I try to get out of the pile and keep slipping and falling, then THAT is the struggle, that is Allah’s influence. But sitting in it is NO jihad, it is something else. And it stinks, metaphorically and literally. What is jihad anyway ana? How is there any value to struggle or pain or success if Allah is just orchestrating his own little concert like some megalomaniac god in a star trek episode?What would be the POINT?

    You said “The prophets in the Quran are our examples. Did you read anywhere in Quran that Allah advised any of the prophet or anyone for that matter to run from their fate? They all patiently persevere and prayed to Allah and waited for His decision. They knew Allah was in control of all that was happening to them and they knew it was all Allah’s decisions.” Why would Allah advise them to run from anything in any case? I don’t think any of this has to do with patiently persevering when Allah is communicating with you personally.I wouldn’t go arguing with Allah if he tells me to do something EITHER.

    Allah allows all kinds of freedoms. In fact, he tells us that there is no compulsion in religion. Ana, if we have NO CHOICE, then we are compelled. So, was I compelled by Allah? Or did Allah give me the great opportunity to serve and love him because he knew that my heart was steered toward the Islam of Allah? I know that I had the choice because I know the Quran is true. I am not a puppet.Allah knows what I will do, but he knows everything, sees everything and can change all the circumstances surrounding the choices I make. But still, I am the one who chooses what “I” do, Allah may direct the results, but he give me the choice. So, when I say, see you later, inshaa allah, it is because I plan to see you later. I don’t know what Allah will think about my plans, so I allow for that in my stated intent.

    You say, “If a person is in what you call a “bad” situation, it needs to be determine what a “bad” situation is. If one is unhappy for whatever reason, which most people are unhappy at times, does it constitute a “bad” situation because our desires and passions and wants aren’t being satisfied? Regardless, we as Believers are to turn all our attention to Allah and know that He knows what’s best for us, and will dispose of our affairs towards comfort and ease if we obey Him. In the case of the woman that had her eyes clawed out by her husband. It was Allah’s will that her husband would claw her eyes out for whatever reason and that he would be arrested and she would leave him. It was in her script written by Allah before she was born.”
    Not touching that one. I hope at this point that we are understanding “will” differently. What is Allah’s DESIRE for her, and what is the accumulation of her choices and her husbands choices? Allah created evil, there is evil available to us, but I don’t believe it was Allah’s desire that we choose it or that people are victimized by evil. He allows it, but will sounds like he condones it. How could Justice condone what it forbids? That he allows it (in dunia)doesn’t contradict anything I know of Allah-because his justice transcends our puny life spans. He has eternity to do his thing. That he desired this for her-no, I don’t accept that. That he desires for little children to be microwaved by their mother? Please, don’t put that on Allah.

    The script is written by his knowledge of us, our choices and those around us. But if all he wanted was puppets. . .why bother?

    My thought is that you say a lot, and write convincingly on this subject, but I am not seeing anything from Quran that tells me I am an unbeliever for what I understand or that I am in some kind of shirk.

  • khadijah Z

    June 23, 2011

    it is said our life has been determined the moment Allah blows our should into our unborn fetus so our lives and deaths are already there

    however there are also test he gives us to fallow to guide us in the best ways if we fail in one path there is another path to guide us back

    not all choose to fallow the guidance set to us and even the situations we get our guide is the Quran and the hadiths

  • ana

    June 23, 2011

    Nura, the only thing I’m saying is that with regard to you having been in a “bad” situation, be it your previous marriage or whatever, and you getting out of it, you had nothing to do with any of it. Allah wrote that for you before you were born. You went through the motions and carried out his plan and it was decreed by Allah that He’d remove you from it when he did. (Read the story of Joseph (Yusuf) in the Quran) You were that puppet on the string. a vainglorious boaster THINKS he or she had something to do with it. It kills me when I hear anyone say something like: “I pulled myself up by my bootstraps” – and crap like that. They did NOTHING, but carried out Allah’s will! – and took credit for what Allah did…

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    June 23, 2011

    “No misfortune can happen on earth or in your souls but is recorded in a decree before We bring it into existence: That is truly easy for Allah:”
    Quran: Surah 57, Iyat 22

    “In order that ye may not despair over matters that pass you by, nor exult over favours bestowed upon you. For Allah loveth not any vainglorious boaster-”
    Quran: Surah 57, Iyat 23

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    June 23, 2011

    Nura,

    I believe that Allah gives us directions and commands in the Quran. We have a choice to obey Allah or not obey Him, which in itself is an illusion. As mentioned previously, it’s been decided what each and everyone of us will do and be before we were born. Nothing was left out for the blanks to be filled in as we go. We have no power as Allah tells us there is no power and there is no might except in Allah.

    We of course do not know what Allah has written for us. He is the all knowing. So, we go throughout life doing whatever it is we do and we are still accountable for each and everything that we do; although Allah has already determined what it is we would do and be.

    The question is: Do you believe that before we were born Allah wrote what we all would do and be and the ink is dry, or do you believe Allah has all these little mini gods, each and everyone of us, running around with power and control, making things happen? If you believe we have power to do what we want, you believe Allah has partners; we are His partners and we all have power. You’re saying we rule and control the earth with Allah. Are you saying we share in his dominion? Is that what you believe?

    If we don’t have power then yes, we are helpless. Yes, we have no control over our actions, but we will be accountable to Allah for our actions, all that we do. It’s where Faith comes in. Don’t ask me why Allah does the things that He does or made things the way He made them. Allah is all Knowing, not us.

    No one remains in a bad situation because of their choice. They simply remain in a bad situation because Allah has placed them in it and they can’t leave until He removes them from it. They may think it’s their choice to stay in it and others may think that as well. Why don’t you answer the question: what is Allah saying when He says there is no power or might except in Him? What does it mean? Does it mean you have power??? Who is right, you or Allah?

    The prophets in the Quran are our examples. Did you read anywhere in Quran that Allah advised any of the prophets or anyone for that matter to run from their fate? They all patiently persevere and prayed to Allah and waited for His decision. They knew Allah was in control of all that was happening to them and they knew it was all Allah’s decisions.

    If a person is in what you call a “bad” situation, it needs to be determine what a “bad” situation is. If one is unhappy for whatever reason, which most people are unhappy at times, does it constitute a “bad” situation because our desires and passions and wants aren’t being satisfied? Regardless, we as Believers are to turn all our attention to Allah and know that He knows what’s best for us, and will dispose of our affairs towards comfort and ease if we obey Him. In the case of the woman whose eyes were clawed out by her husband, it was Allah’s will that her husband would claw her eyes out for whatever reason, that he would be arrested and she would leave him. It was in her script written by Allah before she was born.

    The script was written and the ink is dry.

    This is an open house

  • nura

    June 23, 2011

    Ana,
    If someone chooses to remain in a bad situation and call it Allah’s will, then that is their choice. I obviously understand this differently than you, but I don’t appreciate being labeled an unbeliever because of that. Allah has all power and he can be as ‘arrogant’ as he pleases.

    I need to make sure I understand what you are saying beyond the puppet comment: Do you believe that we have no control over our own actions and that everything is dictated by Allah? That we are basically helpless to make a decision that is truly our decision?

  • ana

    June 23, 2011

    Wa Alaikum As Salaam, Okhti K (Khadijah)

    You and the co-wives situation is just peculiar is all I can say. I guess it’s just as peculiar as mine. We all as reverts have these huge expectations based on all we’ve read and our studies, and then to find out nothing is as we thought it would be is mind boggling, to say the least.

    We could say Sherif should have made certain that everyone would accept you and be there for you before he married you, and had you relocate to Egypt. He probably thought they would, but as you too did, found out later, it wasn’t so. Could he have done more later? I guess not.

    The same with Alex, we could say he should have made sure “C” was on board with him, me and polygamy before he married her. If she wasn’t on board, should he not have married her? If I weren’t on board, should he have divorced me to be with her? Or should it be exactly as it is?

    Is it simply just a huge test for us, as Allah says He tests some of us by way of others? Is it just a means to get us right with ourselves; right with others and right with Allah? It’s all good, Okhti K. It’s all good! happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    June 23, 2011

    Nura, As Salaamu Alaikum

    I can see and understand why you believe as you do, regarding “free will”. I used to believe the same when I reverted and for a long time thereafter. I wasn’t a Believer. I was a Muslim. When one becomes a Believer, as in Lynn’s husband (based on what she related to us about his belief) and maybe a number of others that have spoken on this blog, one knows that EVERYTHING is Allah’s will.

    The act of someone bending down and tying one’s shoe is Allah’s will. The act of someone killing another is Allah’s will. There is no power and there is no might except in Allah. What does it mean? We are as puppets on a string or actors and Allah is as the Director, so to speak, as was mentioned by Lynn’s husband through her and I’ve read similar in other Islamic material over the years.

    Allah created some people for the Hellfire and some He created for Paradise and there’s an Iyat in which He says it and He says He does not care. It’s not for anyone to be arrogant, except Allah. He has reason to be.

    Yes, Allah created everyone to do every evil that they do. Yes, Allah created everyone to do every good that they do. Yes, Allah created evil and He created good. And yes, although Allah created each and everyone of us to do everything that we do, we will all be accountable for the things that HE MADE US DO. Yes, Allah tells us what to do and what not to do and He (Allah) decides whether we do it or not.

    People with their limited amount of knowledge try to understand Allah and His mysteries. Allah and His creation are too huge for anyone to understand COMPLETELY. It’s where FAITH comes in. One who Believes ACCEPT all of the above without question. Those who REJECT it, reject it because they don’t understand it with their limited knowledge. Yet, it’s not for them to understand, only to accept. Those who don’t accept it are similar to those that ask, “Who created God?”

    Do you know the masses of just about every religion believe we have “free will?” If we believe as the masses believe we are unbelievers.

    I get very frustrated sometimes on this blog with the issue of “free will” because I feel I am battling with my fellow Muslims and Non-Muslims – those that believe we have this thing called “free will” – to keep my Faith. You create doubt and when we doubt Allah places doubt on top of doubt. I can’t afford to go there with doubt, as it took me to long to get to where I am to go backwards.

    Allah in Quran says there are only going to be a few Believers. It’s all I have to say about it at this time. All of you could continue to debate it. I’m not trying to be or want to be arrogant in saying this, but I know the TRUTH.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • khadijah Z

    June 23, 2011

    Asalaam Alaykum okhti’s i pray your all feeling well today, and Allah has his hands on you for a good life

    @ Ana okhti well they have helped me at points but it is only of sherif telling them to help me in something and it never goes past that point at each time sad

    I use to go and visit the 1st at least once a week unless i was helping the kids get ready for exams, well till she attacked me sad
    i didnt visit the 2nd much due to sherif forbid me to bcos she making problems and we all were not allowed to talk to her, and the 3rd her brother is always there when sherif is not at her so kinda hard to go visit her at any time and mind you i use to call to go see her and the kids or invite over but she dont ans her phone

    even i had thought to visit his parents despite they never invite me over, expect em to just show, his mom starting fights to his dad due to the 2nd wife they dont no i no about for over 6yrs laughing

    Also since the 1st had her last child the house is not cleaned any more and you can see how bad it is and they do not allow any of us to do it and i just cant eat there cos i always get sick for few days, but knowing now where i felt sorry for his dad over his moms treatment of him to know he agreed to the 1st over her attack on me i no longer feel sorry for him sad
    and now find out his mom telling people his dad is trying to kill her laughing the never ending story …. i just do not feel to deal to the drama and also if people want to see you they will invite you … right!!

  • nura

    June 23, 2011

    Ana, I just saw your post about being in Paradise with Alex. It made me sad when you said you were sleeping with the enemy sometimes. When I reverted, I left a marriage, mostly because I knew I could not do that as a Muslim and have the freedom to serve Allah. I can’t say my ex was a prize in the loving husband department, but I would have probably remained married out of pure inertia (divorce is a PITB).

    I know that no Muslim is perfect, but I guess there are reasons to divorce and some folks probably would have no problem justifying themselves in doing so. I am disturbed by the frequent saying that everything that happens is Allah’s will. Therefore they don’t demand rights, divorce, ask for help, tell others, put up with abuse and haram treatment and behavior by others. We don’t magically get married or pregnant or divorced without taking steps to do so. Whatever is Allahs will still requires our participation. We are not puppets. I could not be married to a kaffir as a Muslim woman. No one would arrest me, no one would judge me harshly even if I were to have stayed with him. I could have put off filing and lived with him the way i was already for the rest of my life and said it was Allah’s will. And so it would be. But Allah could have stopped me in my tracks if it were not. Maybe no one could have said “Oh, that was Allah’s hand”, but it would have been. Anyway, if I couldn’t be married to a kaffir, I couldn’t be married to a (clear) hypocrite. We all have little hypocrisies, but one towards Allah specifically would be a harsh thing to be participating in.

    I am not talking about any specific situation. There are a lot of people who are more or less religious. I have a friend looking for a wife who doesn’t care how religious she is so long as she will love him and basically worship at his feet. (good luck with that, buddy). But still, a true marriage and one that is halal. That is not the issue.

    I keep thinking how much different my life would be had I said “Well, it is Allah’s will that I am married to an unbeliever(technically a person of the book” because there I was-married to him, with kids and 2 mortgages/houses and a kitchen aid mixer in storage.I was born in the US. It is his will that I live and die there. I am a redhead, and going blond is against Allah’s will (ok, stretching). If we get overweight, we can say it is God’s will or we can do somethingabout it. Is doing something about something that is unhealthy for us a bad thing? Not Allah’s will?I don’t think so.

    We all have our situations with kids and family and finances. And we do have to deal with reality when we have no resources and such. And we have to make those decisions for ourselves, hopefully guided by our Creator wisely, as he DOES tell us his will for us in how we should treat and be treated by our spouses and children. His will isn’t a mystery. Nothing gets by him, but we also know that he sees things that he doesn’t like, we make choices he doesn’t like. His will is clear, but part of it is the freedom to choose His way or ours. That’s why our religion is about submission. We CHOOSE to DO his will or not. We have the choice, he gives it to us. He gives us guideposts and we follow them or we turn on some shaitan style GPS and go other ways.

    I kind of think it is like seeing a baby in a filthy diaper and saying “well, that’s Allah’s will” and leaving him there. We don’t do that. We know that living in any kind of filth is not his desire for us. He may allow it, but his perfect will is not that we should put ourselves into or stay in situations that are bad. He gave us Torah and Injeel and Quran to let us KNOW his will. What we do with it is the freedom he gives us to make choices for ourselves. Sometimes, we make them according to economics, or for sex or affection, or for children, but we know that having the courage to truly submit, even when it hurts, is kind of where the rubber meets the road. I just think it is a cop out to put up with the literal shit and call it His will.

  • ana

    June 22, 2011

    Okhti K (Khadijah) it’s understandable that you want to see the children and it’s understandable that you want to be a family to your co-wives and the kids. Think how much happier you would be, as a family and you wouldn’t have to be all alone there. I guess they don’t realize the barakats they could possibly receive for reaching out to you, welcoming you, and taking you under their wings. It’s said that if Allah wants good for a person Allah allows them to do good, so maybe it’s not for them to do good to get good. You have good in your heart, Okhti, which is why you want to do good by them. Allah sees and knows all things happy Sometimes I feel a need to point it out to Allah what’s going on. Isn’t that crazy worried

    I know exactly how you feel to want to connect with someone only to get rejected and sh%t on all the time. I’ve dealt with the same thing with “C”. How heartless could your co-wives be not to help you all these years – you are a foreigner in a foreign country – hellooooo!!! It’s truly sad. What’s so annoying too is our husbands have no control or sway over what’s occurring between the people they bring into their lives. I think it’s because there is no Islam. It has nothing to do with Islam or unity. Just like Alex, he marries this woman and disrupts his and my marriage for what? Sometimes I think it would have been better for everyone for him to have just divorced me, and went to be with her. But they’re greedy. It simply seems these men have separate marriages to satisfy their own desires and that is it in a nut shell. Islam permits polygamy and that is what they go for. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Islam otherwise. It’s just a part of Islam that benefits them and they jumped on it sad

    Okhti K, I just hate the thought of you being rejected by all of them again. It’s empowering for them to turn on you that way. Allah sees and knows all things so they like all of us will be accountable for what they do. It’s just not that easy letting go. You know the Christian saying, “Let go and let God.” It’s true.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • khadijah Z

    June 22, 2011

    yes okhti Ana your right, but i do miss the kids tho very weary to turn my back on her or her daughter let alone speak to them

    they got that well the jummah i went to sherif’s parents and they were there, got only salaams from me and i blocked her out completely

    she swore to sherif she offered me to ride the micro with them but i didnt ans hummmm i wonder why!!! cos i BLOCKED YOU OUT OK GET IT

    tho the youngest daughter and baby are special to me i have made it plane to sherif that the next time no matter who it is ill not tell him shit and will refuse every invitation from who ever stabs me in the back again and mind you there is no mild convo for that matter

    just want to see the kids is all…. they will be drilled by their dad as to how things went between me and them or me and their mom as he do asking them questions

    i believe this is why he made his daughter come to me and apologize tho i took it with a grain of sand since there is more dirt here then shit EXCUSE AM WA

  • ana

    June 22, 2011

    Okhti K (Khadijah), I wish you the best with regard to reaching out to your co-wives again. Remember what you chase runs from you. What you run from chases you.

    My days of running behind someone, trying to kiss butt, and make a connection are over. You hear me angry completely over, INSHA ALLAH. I’m so above that with her anymore. I don’t want to hear a thing she may ever have to say either talk to the hand I pray Allah keeps her away from me and me away from her. I sincerely pray that.

    If I recall correctly, the Iyat in Quran speaks about making peace between BELIEVING brothers (and sisters). I pray Allah forgives me when I err or say something incorrect. I will try to find the Iyat about making peace between BELIEVING men and women. We need to be mindful that there is a difference between a Muslim and a Believer. Believers are receptive to reconciliation with each other because they seek the pleasure of Allah. How is anyone going to make peace with someone that doesn’t want it. Both parties must want it. Allah doesn’t just make it happen unless it’s in the heart of the individuals to sincerely want it. It part of what is meant when Allah says He will not change a person’s condition until he changes what is in his heart. The heart needs to be purified and it’s done with the Quran – It’s a cure for all diseases in the heart.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    June 22, 2011

    I say let her find out about the man that will be her husband the same way everyone else learns about a husband. It’s what marriage is all about. We live it and learn it. She’s been communicating with this man for over a decade. They should have spoken about everything under the sun by now and if not, shame on her. Disclosing something about someone doesn’t stop no show anyhow, unless it’s life threatening, contagious, or the man has a secret family. Disclosure is for those that know nothing about the man they intend to marry and it’s usually a wali that should be conducting the interview and investigation. Those two in Cindy’s situation should be on their own. It’s a bit late for a wali. They’ve bypassed that step long ago. Many Muslim women do. She gets emotionally connected with the man and then calls in the wali, which is backwards. I did it that way too.

    Regarding calling someone mom, call me what you want, but don’t call me late for dinner laughing laughing laughing

    Was that corny or what??? laughing

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • cindy

    June 22, 2011

    Kadijah…Point well made! Butremember they both claim they have only been “friends” and have remained “chaste” until recently that is! So would she know?? would he know?? anyway they made their bed (so to speak) they will sleep in it…not me!!

  • khadijah Z

    June 22, 2011

    what makes anyone think that Cindy’s soon to be 2nd has no idea of what her soon to be husband is really like??
    she should know after 10yrs of cyber sex <<<< laughing , visits and calls dont you think?? couldn't be that lame or could she hee hee

  • ana

    June 22, 2011

    Ok, that’s it from me with regard Islamic studies winking . Carry on, ladies – Peace peace sign It seemed you were carrying on without me anyway not listening

    laughing

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Jenny

    June 22, 2011

    @ Khadijah,

    I agree with you about not giving the new wife the heads up about the husband.

    @ Cindy,

    It will be funny as hell if they ever do get together! Boy, will she be in for a complete shock!! Prince Charming smokes and can’t support her in the castle of her dreams! Poor baby!

    To me, it seems she’s a bit ballsy asking to have your children call her “mother!” From an outsider, to me it looks like she wants your life. Maybe I’m wrong.

    My step-children call me mother, but that is the Pakistani custom. My husband told me that is how it would be before we even got married. I will say that it will be a very icy cold day in hell before my children call Ms.P “mother” if/when we ever make it to Pakistan. They can call her Aunt — as she is related to my husband, but that is as far as it goes. Call me what you will. I don’t have a problem with her, but I see no point in confusing my children who will be raised in America and not have the life the other children have. Besides, my children will never know about another wife. Hubs has been well-drilled on that point and clearly understands that is how it will be. That is venturing in territory best left unchartered.

  • ana

    June 22, 2011

    In Cindy’s case, my assessment is that she was Christian when she married her Pakistani raised Muslim husband. Living Islam wasn’t a priority for him as he married a Christian and he was content living a life drinking alcohol to excess, not praying and whatever else. Yet, he, like many men still like the polygamy aspect of Islam. Living a life of Islam was not a priority for him then, but Cindy would like it to be for him now. Cindy has reverted and is trying to do the right thing, Islamically speaking. So there is conflict.

    Some may still want to argue that men can marry the “People of the Book”, but if they read Quran with sincerity, seeking guidance,they will know Allah speaks of “People of the Book” as being those that lived before or during the time of the Prophet Muhammad, as those people had the pure Christianity as revealed to Jesus and the Torah as revealed to Moses. It’s not the Christianity of today. Allah does not tell a Muslim to marry someone that is the opposite of everything He speaks of in Quran in terms of how we should live. We should live according to our religion – Islam – which is a way of life. It’s just common sense.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. just come on in.

  • ana

    June 22, 2011

    With regard to a husband hindering us from the path of Allah, I previously referred to an Iyat from the Quran in which Allah says:

    “O ye who believe! guard your own souls: If ye follow (right) guidance, no hurt can come to you from those who stray. The goal of you all is to Allah: It is He that will show you the truth of all that ye do”
    Quran Surah 5, Iyat 105

    So, if we don’t listen to these husbands that don’t listen to Allah (as He says don’t take heed to those that neglect His remembrance. It also means we don’t BLINDLY obey a husband just because he has the title “husband” ) we can’t be lead astray by anything they say or do.

    We are accountable only for ourselves. Allah says in another Iyat in Quran – save yourself and then your family from a fire made of fuel and stone. I don’t have the exact Iyat at my fingertips, so what I recited is not verbatim. But, we’re to save ourselves first. We have to be on our game.

    A man and woman do not have to divorce simply because one of them does not do what he/she was commanded by Allah to do. If that was the case, no Muslim would be married, as no one is getting it exactly right. This life is a probationary period for us. We’re here to get our souls purified. So, we’re all in bad shape. Allah says he tests us with each other. That means a husband can be tested by a wife and vice versa.

    I have to stay on my ps and qs regarding Alex. It’s like I’m sleeping with the enemy sometimes, but it’s doable. When I married Alex, I didn’t listen to Allah who says don’t take those outside your rank into your intimacy. I knew Alex was not in my rank, but married him anyway to satisfy my own DESIRES. Now, I must suffer the consequences of being married to a man that is a good, loving, kind, patient man that caters to all my wants and need, but has no passionate interest in Islam. Will Alex and I be together in Paradise? Allah knows best. I’m not counting on it. I pray I make it there. With Alex living a dual life of polygamy – one life with kaffirs (his second marriage) and another life with me – I can’t count on us being together in Jannah.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • nura

    June 22, 2011

    Dear Khadijah,

    I think you came by your cynicism the hard way. I have had it quite soft relatively speaking. It is probably best to be silent, but if someone asked me directly, I would sure find an indirect way of being honest, if you know what I mean. One can say a lot without saying anything at all, so to speak. The lawyers in this group know what I meanhappy

    I am going to find some special duaa to thank Allah for my co-wife(blessing). happy Or, Ill just cry out my thanks in spontaneous praise. I visited her today and brought chocolate. she has been caring for her friend’s kids all week, plus hubby was sick the two days before she got them. She sent me a text saying she was going crazy-I could hear the boys(4 of them) on the ground floor and they live on the 2nd floor(3rd in US think). I brought thelittle guy some hot wheels and I got a kiss and he didn’t make an evil little face about it before hand, either. I have sunk to bribery, but he is 4. He will just remember I was nice to himhappy The older one is cool so far, but the teenage years are coming. (Shudder) Teenagers terrify me. She sent me a text saying she was going crazy. I got up there, I was sooooo simpatico with her. But she looked great,even though the world was blown up around her. Dang. happy

  • khadijah Z

    June 22, 2011

    @ Nura and Cindy okhti’s a bit of advice and warnings as it is and your my sisters in faith kiss

    to tell the other wife anything in faults of your joined husband or his intended is a no no!!

    i found out early that even if they start the conversations to point out the faults of the husband and even other wives they in turn tell the husband you stated this and that and nothing of the facts that she indeed started the conversations, those wee her words not mine, or even what she had stated in so conversations sad

    the intentions are of only one thing to discredit you in his eyes and the other wives even to go so far to have my husbands wife talk bad of the other wives with the daughter close by listening and then said daughter going to the other wives saying you said this and that when indeed it was her mother who stated it and they in turn tell the husband you said this and that and he comes to you saying well my daughter heard all you said and told them and they told me… point being keep it to your self do not be cohersed into such conversations thinking she is befriending you and keep what you know to your self and let her find out for her self sad

    no one told you before hand of him, so let her find out on her own also and when she complains tell her to tell him or act like you have no idea what she is saying bcos she will tell him you told her this

    beware of viscous animals in the yard, they may look cute and tamed but a bite can be poisonous and may even kill you crying

  • nura

    June 22, 2011

    Cindy, in my case, I was talking about sisters in general and polygamy in general, not about any one entering into my family in particular.

    I remember those posts about your quandry earlier. Does your husband care if you tell her? Has she asked? Have you asked her how she would feel about having a husband that smokes, (does whatever else he does), can’t afford a second, or even to take his first to Haj/Umrah and spends half of his time with her speaking to another woman and talking about her the other half? Seriously. That is something that she will face. If it is defaming your husband, then I’d say he is digging that ditch himself, for one thing. For another, if he is a man, then he can justify his actions to her, I guess.

    Just think: Ask her “Hypothically speaking, if you knew that your future husband did this, and that and this and that, would you want to know before you married him or would you figure that is for you to deal with after marriage if it was the case?” That is not defamatory and yet, she is getting some good questions to ask if she hasn’t yet. Just a thought, probably lame, but this poor girl might well know and not care-because she will now have a husband. I don’t know what she think she is getting.

  • cindy

    June 22, 2011

    Asa kadijah….I do not know what to say to you about your situation. It is a sad afair all around. I truly am sorry that you are going through this but like ana stated…..”these are the removal of any barriers between you and jannah” I honestly believe this to be true in all of our cases but more so in yours….BIG HUG!

    Asa Nura…..I too have have wondered what to tell the second wife (intended) Do I tell her his faults? or at least his islamic faults? Is it my placeinform or her family’s place to investigate? I believe it was brother Ali who finaly convinced me that it is none of my business, but I tend to see it in another way. Would I want my sister /dgt to marry such a person? NO! Now add in “Islamic sister” to the equation and the answer becomes NO! NO!. What I do not want to be is the “first” wife that will do anything to stop the a second marriage….but I can envision his second saying to me or asking me one day “cindy, why didn’t you tell/warn me?” As to her being a “secret” yeah she will be. My kids know, my mom knows and obviously their parents know but she will still be a “secret” to our friends (mine/his) the government and things/people of that nature. Speaking of kids…she/they asked me if it would be ok if my kids called her “mom” ok so wow I was not expecting that for some reason. I said I would be fine if they called her “Ami” which means mom in urdo/pushto but “mom/mama” no way not going to happen. I spoke with my oldest son and he just flat out refused. He said he would gladly use any other term of respect that they might want but it will not be any form of “mom” in any language. My little guy is young enough that if I start calling her “Ami____ he will then pick it up easily without any conflict. My dgt will inshallah call her by her first name. ( I am trying to break her of the “home wrecker” habit as it is) Lol!

  • khadijah Z

    June 22, 2011

    Asalaam Alaykum Okhti’s pray your all doing well this very hot day.

    Well got a text from sherif last night that he was in the red sea left yesterday morning tho i seen he was on in FB im sure he had plenty of phone credit to call the 3rd and let her know eh would not be home last night

    Am i angry yes a bit dose it matter no not really! … always the least in this life so…

    @ Nura so you know it was very hard times for me then and after 3 days of only oranges due to every thing i had needed to be cooked with out a tank i was stuck but so you no when he did come home on my night he found me in bed crying asking for a divorce from someone who had no care of me wail he ran out to get me a tank and food still it made a dent in our marriage ill never forget and have not allowed him to forget either, esp that it happened twice
    As for being in Jennah together i had stated to him before “i think not” “coz if this life with him was as it is id not want to live in the same neglected way in Jennah with him” … and his jaw hit the floor, i walked away.
    Some times people in our lives do things to us in a manner that is not just unbecoming as Muslims but as human beings as well, and for these men who think marriage is only dinner together and sleeping together or sex with out any liability to our needs of conversation, humanity, a relationship or faith and care, or as humans or help to raise their children with good Islamic manners and then to blame it on the ignorance of the woman who also thinks it is only to give birth and nothing more to hire a tutor to teach your children things you should already know is beyond me.

    I told Sherif our last day together id probably try again to the 1st to go and visit her and the kids after he left and his ans was “well this is what the good Muslims doing” and i looked at him and said ” right and im the one who is always doing this after they do there filth to me”
    then asked so then the 1st falls into what category, with what she id being accepted by your parents in what she did and he just looked at me and said nothing … point given!!

  • nura

    June 22, 2011

    Khadijah, if you were in cairo, you’d get the smell of the dog’s life too!

    Your post broke my heart. And you aren’t a secret!

    I know my H. would not do those things, but men are pretty insensitive sometimes and sometimes he can hurt me. With 4 wives, I can only imagine.

    The concern I’d have with that situation is long term-really long term. If we are marrying these men and hope to go to jannah with them, exactly how far can some of them take us? Alex who has no interest in Islam, Sherif who isn’t fulfilling even his religious obligation to all of his wives. The men who cheat or drink or smoke? When we stay with them, how is that affecting our own relationship to Allah when we KNOW they do not care about their deen or iman or what have you? Does Allah hate a divorce when the marriage damages our iman? Not just doesn’t promote it, but deep down the men are dragging us toward hell with them?

  • nura

    June 22, 2011

    Jenny, the other wife in our marriage is here about half the year-when the kids are out of school. They are going to a really great school in Egypt and first really prefers that they stay, cause they can’t go to the university connected to it unless they graduate from the system it is in. Or something like that.

    I honestly wish she was always here, but the reasons are complicated as to my desire. The long term plan is that we will live in the same city with an even split.

    I’m not that great with the schedule. I don’t like going cold turkey from normal marriage to polygamy when she gets here. I’d really rather just get in one set schedule. It’s too easy to think I’m it, even with phone calls and skype. Anyway, it is what it ishappy

  • ana

    June 22, 2011

    And there is good tidings from Allah who says:

    “So, verily with every difficulty there is relief:”
    Quran Surah 94, Iyat 5

    “Verily, with every difficulty there is relief.”
    Quran Surah 94, Iyat 6

    “Therefore, when thou art free (from thine immediate task), still labour hard.”
    Quran Surah 94, Iyat 7

    “And to thy Lord turn (all) thy attention.”
    Quran Surah 94, Iyat 8

    So, if we do all that Allah tells us to: serve and obey Him, patiently persevere and pray, He will relieve us of our difficulties. It may not happen over night. It could take several years or many, many more, but relief is insight. Part of the test is to see who will persevere.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • nura

    June 22, 2011

    Ana,

    ASA, I thought polygamy was a little more prevalent here in Qatar than the article indicates, but perhaps I am in weighted group of women in that I am a revert and middle aged.

    The topic would be “should we totally disclose the difficulties of polygamy to a sister who is considering it, and should we give them a list of warnings and cautions? Same for brothers?

    My husband thinks he wants to start some revolution to make the perception of polygamy better. I tell him that he is as good a man as I know and it’s still difficult being a second. I told him that I really wouldnt PROMOTE it, unless he was making it really revolutionary- and onlyy ending the secret marriages altogether will legitimize it. It is the shame, the not wanting to embarrass (first wife, parents, siblings, neighbors)others. I told him that all his friends want younger, childless women. They have ABSOLUTELY no reason to consider being alone in a country, no support from family, to possibly raise children with a man who is keeping them a secret from even his own family and sees them when #1 won’t notice. So, if I knew a woman was considering it, I’d tell her ALL the concerns I have about it. I was able to discourage a man because he is a good man. No 25 year old single girl living in this country needs to be a second when she will be at a total disadvantage to do so-in housing, family and finances. I didn’t even need to be (in this country-I’m white and American, nuff said) except that the best man I know was already married.

    Should we give fair and detailed warning to our sisters in considering marriage (really, any marriage, cause they don’t want to be surprised later and BE that crazy first wife). Men love to say that we shouldn’t detail contracts (well, that suits them very well, huh?) about such things. What ABOUT telling your husband that if he can afford it properly you won’t object, so long as you are told properly and within a reasonable time? Then you are not going to be like some here who find out that he has two kids in Malaysia or something with his second wife. Doesn’t 2nd in Malaysia deserve rights as a wife?

    ***Or maybe the question is: DO YOU THINK YOU WANT A REVOLUTION?***
    We all want to change the world. . . (thank you John Lennon). How do we change the stigma of polygamy for both-all of the wives? (I don’t think the stigma is on the men EVER, they all think he’s the bomb if he gets away with it). It’s halal for the men, the women-not so much+ if it is public. If the social stigma is gone, then men don’t have any excuses for secrets and subterfuge. Other than hurting the first, and that begs the question-so how the hell do you really feel about the second??? Because if you think secrets don’t hurt them, then you are too stupid to be married to anyone.

    Hmmm. I still need to focus this. I am upset and my husbands first wife knew before *I* did. But his MIL never will, which effectively makes me a bit of a secret among even his family. I consider how this impacts me when we go to Egypt and I know it will and it makes me mad-I didn’t consider a lot of this before I married. The only way a woman is not marginalized in this, is if she is not a secret (and her husband isn’t keeping any secrets) and polygamy isn’t a stigma on the women involved.

    My friend would rather her husband committed zina than took a second. So, he will probably take a second and not tell her. Ever (or as long as he can get away with it). And the first marriage will be destroyed(it’s crap anyway). So, they are together for the kids and they both know it. He respects her, but not enough to refrain from marrying again if he could. Other than stigma, she has no reason to divorce. And she gets rid of him for half the time (a good thing-they don’t get along). With several children, not much chance she will remarry (she is cute, but 4 kids and mid 30′s now, reality bites). So, remove the stigma and she can actually have a better life in polygamy, but she won’t because of the stigma.

  • ana

    June 22, 2011

    Jenny, that’s the thing. You said you wonder, “How many people really have happy lives???”

    Allah tells us in Quran that He did not create this life for sport and play. He created us to see who is best in conduct. He (Allah) already knows. Each of us however, don’t know. So, we get tested. That is – some of us get tested. Those that straight up don’t serve Him don’t get tested. They get respite, some enjoyment in this life and punishment in this life, as well, but they receive a severe punishment in the Hereafter.

    Allah say in Quran Surah 84, Iyat 6
    “O thou man! Verily thou art ever toiling on towards thy Lord – painfully toiling – but thou shalt meet Him”

    Quran Surah 90, Iyat 4
    “Verily We have created man into toil and struggle.”

    Surah 90, Iyat 5
    “Thinketh he, that none hath power over Him.”

    This is why we as Believers suffer as we do.

    This is why we as BELIEVERS wait patiently on Allah to dispose of our affairs and He does. It’s what we as believers try to do. He (Allah says) if we obey Him, patiently persevere, surrender to HIS WILL, and serve Him, He will dispose of our affairs towards comfort and ease. A believer truly believes. A believer submits and no longer has a will.

    Khadijah appears to me to be on her way. Acceptance is key. Patience is Key. Pray is key. Allah says He reward those that are patient with a reward beyond measure.

    Allah speaks repeatedly of patience in the Quran. He does NOT tell us to try to get up out of our situation, run away, try to escape our fate, or try to make things happen. He says patiently persevere and pray. Satan wants to make us appear weak and pathetic for accepting His (Allah’s) decision. Satan wants us to rebel, fight and reject Allah.

    If we’re thinking like the MASSES (like the majority of everyone else) that we have all this free will and we decide; we are not of the few that are believers. Allah says there will only be a few. I rejected this as everyone does until they grow in faith. It takes a sincere desire to worship Allah to not rebel or reject faith. We grow in faith in stages happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Jenny

    June 21, 2011

    @ Khadijah,

    I couldn’t imagine going through these things, but you are simply amazing!

    As far as these men wanting the women, I certainly wouldn’t go for that. I wonder how many people really have happy lives???

  • khadijah Z

    June 21, 2011

    @ Okhti Nura your not ranting all i can say is welcome to my world…
    I was told id be accepted by the other wives and his family … but i wasn’t not really
    instead i was mocked, pushed, verbally fazed out of conversations, wedding pics shoved into my face and told i was not loved to go back to USA and more crying my heart still hurts when i think of these things

    I was told id be alone, but hardly a day would go by that id not see or hear from him … nottt… he’d gone as much as 10 days with out a word, a call not even a message on net … day after day watching out the windows wondering of the life out there, conversations i dont understand, laughter and cry’s but nothing i could define

    I was in the begging left so much alone with out even the means to take care of myself twice my tank ran out .. no way to cook, no hot water in winter didnt no how to get around no money …

    Once also my monthly he promised to bring me pads that night as i had only 3 left that morning when eh left, and come the next day still no word … so i took the package out of the trash and put it in my purse took the 15le i had and walked to a market in a over night bloody pad to get pads not understanding a thing of Arabic or even the price of them and walked home leaving a trail of blood and tears crying
    things i expect Allah to deal with on a man who married me and literally turned me into a Palestinian in a open Air prison
    I often wonder how i got past all of that to where im now and the only thing was Allah and the fact i had been neglected just like i was as a child only my self to rely on all my life as now nothing has ever changed only i get sex some times and a man supporting me but life in general is the same always wondering why my life has been such a dogs life, alone and disregarded in life some times id say like garbage but with out the smell hee hee

  • khadijah Z

    June 21, 2011

    be aware that many men in KSA marry good sisters from other countries, but once the !st Arab wife finds out she and her family make him divorce her … that is bull pucky and haram to allow such things to happen

    but sherif told me of one bro he knows in KSA married a Indonesian woman and after a few weeks told the 1st and her and her family forced him to div her how i dont no but the look on sherif’s face told me that there may of been threats towards the 2nds life sad

  • khadijah Z

    June 21, 2011

    @ Nura iv had sherif ask me the same thing for his friends and gave him the same exact ans … no young reverted virgin or not!! girls will be interested in being a 2nd, 3rd or 4th for that matter when they can be a 1st or only esp to a man who is old or already extended to another woman who maybe will not accept them and make problems some what like my co wives for instance laughing
    must be crazy let the sisters find there own ill not be blamed for it and lose my friendships

    he tried to get em to find one the the bro of the 3rd who mind you is divorced paying up the ying yang for his X and 2 kids who reminds me heavily of MRs2 1st so why would i get a young virgin to marry a man in his mid 40′s sad not to mention being the sister of the 3rd so she has to be put in the midst of stupidity

  • Jenny

    June 21, 2011

    @ Nura,

    It is really nice that your husband is promoting men to take a second wife; however, how many women want to be a “secret,” be alone much of the time, or live with less than half support? Sounds like a marriage I escaped from with my ex! happy

    Your husband is certainly the cream of the crop, but the motivation for every other man can be questionable as we have seen many examples on this site.

    I think for a woman to get into this situation, it requires a special person. I know I am not cut out for it and in my unique situation where I don’t have to put up with a lot, it still grates every nerve that I have! surprise

    Hope you are doing well and adjusting to the schedule. How long will she be in your country?

  • ana

    June 21, 2011

    Nura, I just reread your comment. If I understand correctly you’re interested in us doing a thread on what responsibility we have, if any, to inform another sister of what life living polygamy could be like for her in terms of her being a “secret” or “second” wife.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    June 21, 2011

    Nura, kindly clarify what you’d like the new thread to be about. We’ve already made a few posts about secret wives such as:

    http://polygamy411.com/shirk-and-secret-wives/

    http://polygamy411.com/polygamy-and-secret-wives/

    I included a couple related posts below:

    http://polygamy411.com/the-hidden-wives-of-turkey/

    http://polygamy411.com/are-misyar-marriages-lawful/

    Nura, I thought you might find this post http://polygamy411.com/polygamy-in-qatar/ interesting, if you haven’t read it already.

    All suggestions from everyone regarding topics for threads are welcome and appreciated happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • nura

    June 21, 2011

    Cindy, I know he is overextended in many ways right now. I also know that things will right themselves, inshaa Allahhappy

    He has told me that some of his co-workers are interested in taking second wives (apparently he inspired them or something-sorry, I don’t have a clue as to how men think). So, he wants me to get pictures of some of the single gals I know and information about them, theory being it is better for the men to see them first, so that the women won’t feel rejected. . .in any case, I told him that no young revert girls, virgins, are going to be interested in being a second wife when they can pick and choose. I pointed out you guys, and the issues of polygamy that I wouldn’t wish on any of them, especially knowing that it is hard even when your husband is everything good and so is the other wife. It is hard when there is enough money, and enough sex and friends in common. I explained that with the male/female ratio in this country, no girl needed to consider being a second, though most were aware that they could end of being the first of several. Anyway, I am in a quandry about any matchmaking. One friend, a truly good man, wanted a second, but the situation would be very isolating for the second and I really discouraged HIM, and I think talked him out of it(saying that it was the rare marriage that was successful in a secret, that one of them are usually lost when they find out (and they WILL find out)and he needed to consider if he wanted children who would never know each other or a wife who would never know his extended family and who would be alone, with children for most of the year until time indefinite (he lives in states). Anyway, I encouraged him to think it through. He has a beautiful family and a wife that he (yes) adores and respects immensely. I think I would feel like a homewrecker to have anything to do with a secret marriage and I don’t want to get in the business of them. So to speak.

    My husband says that is a decision for the women to make, but I already know that most would not consider to be a second and aren’t desperate or anything. And that no second wife really knows what she is getting into. I told him it is hard and he isn’t doing anything ‘wrong’. I said it broke my heart when he asked if I needed anything at the end of the day and since I wasn’t hemorrhaging and was not unconscious, I was pretty sure it really didn’t matter whatever it was that I might like him to pick up or do for me. It wasn’t my night and so it didn’t matter. I think I sounded bitter, but that is a reality that is hard. It is hard that first wives are given parties, and the men are too, and the news of second wives need to be broken gently, even here in Muslim ARABIA where it is legal and relatively common among the locals. I know other seconds and I know you all, and we know that this is a challenge we would not promote to young girls as some ideal of marriage. And lets face it, my husband is as good as it gets so far as men are concerned IMO, most men are not as religious, don’t have as good of jobs and don’t have the kind of extended family that he does (not all of whom know about me yet, btw!)Most are also just plain not as nice as him. And he just disappointed me so much when he said that that was the responsibility of the woman to learn of the men.I pointed out that most reverts do not have men close to them to be their guardian and that trust. He just does not get what a vulnerable thing it is to leave ones country and marry a man from a different country, a different culture and a different language. The isolation is immense. And polygamy just exacerbates it-as in-among my old friends, expats, marrying an Arab is one thing, being a second wife makes me a zoo animal to them. He is wonderful, but clueless on this, and he doesn’t get how hard that would be for a young woman especially when children come, especially not knowing if first might dig their eyeballs out or something. These girls aren’t getting weddings, likely, won’t get much time at all and will probably get the dregs of the budget(because secrets can’t get half, or firsts would notice the lifestyle change).

    Tell me what you think gals? Ana, maybe you could start a new thread about what kind of responsibility we have towards our sisters in this matter when we DO know and we have thought about it (as I have).

    The thing is, men can go on about how there is no requirement to tell other wife(true) and no consent(true)and that they don’t EVER have to tell, its still halal. Well, so is divorce, but it is awful. I think that secret marriages are about there with divorce and should be held in that kind of regard. Like a dirty diaper you really don’t want to close to you. What is allowed because it is not forbidden, is not necessarily a good or wise thing. Technically speaking, it is halal to drive a car 150 miles an hour in the desert or to drive into the sea. Kinda stupid though, all the same.

    Sorry, ranting.

  • cindy

    June 21, 2011

    @ nura…..You set a great example as does your co-wife in regard to my situation. Also for a man (and you know this is true) a home is where they lay their heads to sleep. Make sure you make your home “peacefull” like you plan to do and inshallah he will be back to his jolly self soon enough, I am sure he is just over extended with his studies and your lg. familyhappy

  • nura

    June 21, 2011

    Dear Ana, hey, when you meet someone, in Arabic you would say “Ana Ana”, except that Ana isn’t your real name.

    Anyway, if you knew how much my honey has been suffering lately, you wouldn’t drag him over to your house. I actually have to drag him out for fajr, and he is NOT the kind of guy that needs to be dragged out of bed for prayer. I’m worried. He is constantly complaining of pain lately and he needs to see a doctor (I think chiropractic would help physical, vacation would help most of the rest). In any case, I will get him 2 nights in a row, so I won’t complain. I’m making him his fave roast chicken, rice pilaf, roasted carrots, zucchini in bechamel and salad. All this with two burners and no proper oven, thank you very muchhappy rice turned out great. I think I am making chocolate pudding. Comfort food, but vaguely good for you (milk).

    I miss him! My co-wife is wonderful, but I am hoping to give him a nice quiet haven(no kids) here for the next couple of days.No drama, errands, anything else. Except the water, he has to bring the new water bottle. This is Arabia and I won’t run out of the good stuff(stuff in tap is ok to drink, but not to anyone’s liking).

  • ana

    June 20, 2011

    As Salaamu Alaikum and Peace to All!

    I failed to mention that my hubby has a very nice hiney as well. He’s a hefty, big, burly type guy. He likes to bend people over, he says (He’s not talking about me) laughing laughing laughing Sorry, if I offended anyone. I know we got some prudes here. Sorry, I speak my mind at times. Again, I’m not getting paid for this blog so I’ve got some leeway. No one knows me outside of cyberspace anyhow. I’m just waiting to be in the halal meat market or one of the boutiques and have someone ask – r u Ana from polygamy 411 surprise – Oh No… Anyway, Alex just got the belly thing going on, but it’s rapidly disappearing sad I loved laying next to him, rubbing his big belly. Now, I’m like – where did it go sad It’s shrinking fast. Oh, well, it’s healthier for him.

    Okhti K (Khadijah), hang in there with getting all your documents squared away. Continue to persevere. All will be good, regarding it. Allah’s promise is true. He remember those that remember Him and turn to Him for help, believing He can say be and it is. You cracked me up when you said Sherif asked if you thought he was rich laughing That was hilarious laughing

    Cindy is an oak, for sure! happy

    Okhti Jenny, Okhti K gave you a fantastic suggestion about telling the wives your husband will marry their daughters as 3rd and 4th wives. That should shut them up good fashion.

    Nura, it’s excellent news about how you’ve learned your salats and how much you enjoy doing them. It’s wonderful applause Alhumduliallah. Keep up the good work. You’re a sweetheart. Knowing me, I probably would have told Alex to get his sick (physically not mentally) a$$ here. I wouldn’t care how sick he was. Yeap, ladies, as you can see, I’ve got a lot of work to do on me, but then if I had a decent co-wife like Nura, I’d probably not be so hateful. Allah knows best.

    I have to run and go make the salad to go with Alex and my dinner. He’s bringing home pizza and sushi. I love sushi, especially the kind with the salmon and cream cheese. It’s to die for (figure of speech). We have the halal pepperoni in the fridge. Alex puts it on the pizza when he gets home. He knows how to heat it up just right, so the pizza is dripping with cheese pepperoni. It’s absolutely scrumptious.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • nura

    June 20, 2011

    That may have been my most randomly weird post ever. LOL. Maybe I am more tired than I thoughthappy

  • nura

    June 20, 2011

    Sister Khadijah-salaam alaykum! I hope for the best with your passport and legal marriage.

    Cindy-salaam alaykum-I think you have an amazing attitude towards all of this. I am humbled by you.

    To all my okhti’s, its been a long weekend, his other wife had two days with him and he got sick and I missed my day w/him today, but will get tomorrow and the next day so will be all caught up. I hope he’s better. He is under such stress right now with his job and his coursework. He’s been fighting collapse for weeks now, I think. He has a huge exam in about 2.5 weeks and it is kicking his cute butt. His job has him working til 10 some nights, he goes in at 8 and occasionally gets 3 hours in the middle of it-off. No guarantee these days. It is crazy. Add two wives and children to the mix as well as other assorted stresses. Ugh. Please pray for my H.

    And me. I’m so dang lonely here. I told my one (true) friend my feelings about being a zoo animal to the other expats and she knew what I was talking about as I am the subject of talk. Not especially mean, but you know how women can “bless her heart” while meaning she can go to hell? Well, we have a lot of gals from Texas here, that’s all I can say. I had a nice visit with her though and got an earful about life with a sex addict(funnily enough, it rarely involves actual sex!)I prefer my overworked husband who has healthy ideas about sex, thank you very muchhappy Not a freak, not a bore and actually LIKES it. Do any american christian women have normal sex lives? I never did when I was one, I thought it was just me. Now I am wondering if it is a trend. . .

    Anyway, I’m off to bed, really late, I slept all day. I woke up every time in time to pray(on time!) which is hard for me. Ladies, I have finally gotten to the point where I can pray, all my surats and everything, without looking at a cheat sheet. Yes, I know I am slow, but I had to really know what I was reading, my husband is a linguist so I had to say it right, too. Well, I can now, and I am SO happy. My co-wife is encouraging my Arabic. I like praying more now than ever and find that I concentrate much better now, so that is good. I had my husband wear a thawb because I was distracted by his behind. I realized recently that that is no longer necessary for prayer, though in other contexts, his backside is still nice to enjoy. Yes, now you all know that my honey has a cute hiney. First wife has a great shape too,(not a distraction just observation!) so I wonder if Egyptians are genetically gifted that way. Wonder what Khadijah thinks?

    N.

  • cindy

    June 20, 2011

    Thank youfor that infi kadijah……But I had to laugh too happy you never know what allah had planned for all of us thats for sure.

  • khadijah Z

    June 20, 2011

    or get a spritzer bottle fill it with water and spray them saying its Zam Zam and your chasing away their shataan’s laughing

  • khadijah Z

    June 20, 2011

    @ Jenny okhti you no what the next time any of those old bitty’s get at you again tell them that your husband is going to marry their daughters as 3rd and 4th, make then sleep in the same bed together and send all there kids to his 1st wife for them so not they can stop being jealous of you now and see the looks in their faces and walk away

  • khadijah Z

    June 20, 2011

    Back in my lil corner of this world went and got my passport…
    went to up date the visa for another year esp its only 219.00le but guess what the Egyptian gov has changed it … and now yes it is still only 219.00le a pop but no longer is it for 1yr it is only for 3mos sad till Sept 9th only sad
    so sherif said he plans to get me in on a tour to go to Ummrah after Ramadan, he said eh checked and the gov offices close the last 2 weeks of Ramadan till after the Eid holiday and close again 2 weeks before Hajj starts so i have that open window in between to go for Ummrah to fix the papers then
    I asked him bcos eh said we were all going before but his response this time was ” do you think im rich, no it will just be you”
    so to finish the marriage there unless the US also gets to them to stop it then he was told if so i can get a lawyer to take sherif to court to make them validate it by a court case

    will see what happens i been hearing promises for over 6yrs still waiting for pretty much all

  • khadijah Z

    June 20, 2011

    @ 37yr virgin i have to say its possible a bro i had known for many years had 5 sisters all Pakistani in Pakistan ok,
    the parents made them get educated instead of marriage and all the sisters except 2 went threw early menopause starting at age 30 sad so he took it upon himself to find them husbands, which was not hard being they were all virgins and 2 had not yet gone threw the change however the other 3 it was very hard for him to do eventually he got good brothers to marry them all which gave him the chance to marry also..
    last time i talked to him he had a healthy baby boy and was expecting another Alhumduillah

    as for this girl her self at this point in time i myself would like to know how any woman can talk the nasty, and not get ill by not doing the nasty …..

  • khadijah Z

    June 20, 2011

    Asalaam Alaykum i pray your all doing well

    A lil up on a few details for Cindy’s hubbs and hes soon to be 2nd …. for info all may not know and i no it from many friends who have had similar problems, plz note…. that H.L.S dose a complete investigation meaning they will see if and how long it was he divorced Cindy before running off to marry the other woman, if they are related and how close they are related meaning if they are 1st or 2nd cousins as the US Gov dose not want to be responsibility for med bills do to complications dew to this nature, and he must show contacts not just phone records, both ways but also visits to her and show he can financially afford to bring her to the US as his wife, and support all her needs after his alimony and child support to Cindy and her children, and they will do this to detour her waiting for so long and eventually divorce or him who ever grows tired 1st with out sex and all the problems they cause for the new couple
    this can take from anywhere up to 3+yrs ok iv seen even where they had green cards in the US already for 10yr, fall in love and marry a citizen and are refused citizenship and even go so far as to make a deal with the Gov at the offer of the Gov to join the military and be deployed for 2+yrs to gain there papers earlier dont think will do this of her buy i no they do it to men already in the US, and i no many American and British sisters who marry Pakistani that it took up to 5yrs with them making trips to Pakistan yearly and getting preg coming back and having their children alone

    In all he may have to wait long beyond that 10 yr wait he has already had so with that i say laughing laughing hee hee

  • Jenny

    June 20, 2011

    @ Ana & Cindy,

    It’s okay Cindy. Both of our information is correct. If my Hubs turned into a rat, he couldn’t get out of the country without showing my death certificate, notarized letter stating he can leave the country with the children, or a certified copy of a court order allowing him to do so.

    With that said, I have told you that all the Pakistani women tell me my husband is going to give my children to Ms.P in Pakistan. Let me just say that I am not stupid and not ruled by emotion. I believe in covering my a$$ all the time. I’ve been burned before by someone I love.

    My husband is very naive and I couldn’t see him thinking so far ahead. So, we keep all our passports in the safe inside our home in case we were ever robbed. My husband, who cannot remember how to get into his email, does not know the combination, nor cares to. Our passports, birth and naturalization certificates, stock certificates and anything else of value are in the safe. I’ll repeat it again, he does not know the combination. Without getting into the safe, even he cannot leave the country. happy

    With that said, I would like to see with what he could leave the country in the first place? I have the credit cards, bank book, checks and ATM cards. Granted, he could withdraw money from the bank, but how far would he go without a passport and a credit card?

    My husband is my life. With that said, I told him if he ever wanted us to go back to Pakistan, I would go. Thing is, even HE doesn’t want to go to Pakistan. If we were ever going to live in another country, it would be England or Germany where he grew up. I’ve been burned so badly in the past by my ex, I no longer take anything for granted and always have a “Plan B.”

  • cindy

    June 20, 2011

    @ana…the custodial parent thing only arises in the case of divorce at least in NY that is. I am the custodial parent of my dgt by my first husband but since me and my current hubby are still married it is null and void. You can as I have done in my case keep custody of passports/birth certificates and the such though. I was traveling to canada a couple of months ago with my kids and all their passports and they stopped me from crossing the border until I either A. presented a death certificate (Allah forbid) for my hubby, B. A notorized letter from hubby stating that he was aware I was leaving the country with his sons ( dgt over 18 so not a issue) This was on the U.S. side. They also stated that even if I was the cusodial parent and had divorce papers to prove it I would still need a letter from him to prove that I was not “STEALING THEM”. Plus from my side I have alerted the pakistani/US embassy’s in pakistan/ U.S that he does not have permission from me to travel to pakistan with my children without me being present and upon arrival to pakistan I reiterate this to the U.S embassy and they “flag” all of our passports (U.S. passports that is). There is only so much we as parents can do….I do trust in allah to protect my children from such a fate but I have made my husband aware of my actions and…I trust him believe it or not not to “STEAL MY KIDS” plus my 15 yr old is way too old for him (hubby) to think he could get away with it and hubby’s family would kill him…..Sorry jenny for getting involved in your question happy

  • ana

    June 20, 2011

    It always gets pretty quiet around the holidays. I assume many people are off work and just kicked back or whatever. It seems real creepy though skull

    Alex and I did the Costco shopping thing, and then went to his mom’s to deliver groceries. One of his nieces was there, as well. His mom absolutely adores me. I think because I made Alex step up to the plate, regarding taking exceptionally good care of her. It’s what we must do as children to our parents, whether they are Muslims or not, unless they try to force us to return to worshiping their way, if not Muslim, but we still must be very respectful of them, regardless, although we can’t take heed to them.

    Jen, I was thinking about you and other wives with children in the U.S that are married to men from other countries. You’re an attorney and I’m certain you have or intend to cover all basis on everything as much as humanly possible to the best of your ability. I was wondering if you intend to apply to the courts to be the “custodial parent” of your children? I know since you are married you and your husband will have joint custody of the children, but there is always a chance that things may go awry and your husband may want or try to take your children to Pakistan, which he could do as a parent. The thing of it is, he may not return (parental abduction it’s called in the State in which I reside) with the children and even if you go with them (your husband and the children), he could keep the children there. It’s tough trying to get the child back, working with the embassy and all the red tape. (I’ve too dealt with many of these cases.) I know you would never expect your husband to do such a thing, but we must never fall asleep. Most parents never expect it to happen to them, but it does. I don’t know how it works in the State that you live in. You’d know. I was just curious. I don’t want to alarm you, just want you to be cautious. Trust in Allah, but tie your camel, they say. I don’t know if it’s an accurate statement i dont know

    I know more preventive measures are being placed in effect to prevent those type of cases. We’re taking Alex’s great niece or whatever on the cruise with us. Her mother went to apply for the passport for her, but was informed she had to bring the child’s father (Alex’s nephew) to apply as well.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Jenny

    June 20, 2011

    Wow, it’s quiet today!! Everyone must be busy for Father’s Day! I spoiled the Hubs today! Hope everyone is doing ok and had a lovely weekend!

  • ana

    June 19, 2011

    @Nura, I pray you’re feeling much better, Ohkti, and are not as homesick as you were.big hug Were you able to speak with your children? Hang in there. Things will get better, Insha Allah.

    I’m sleepy, so going back to bed. It’s 4:45 a.m. here sleepy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • cindy

    June 18, 2011

    I have a very active imagination ana…happy

  • ana

    June 18, 2011

    Well, my polygamous marriage is a bit unique too, which I’ve come to realize I should be quite grateful for. She doesn’t want to be bothered with me, and wants no contact with me whatsoever. She made it clear to Alex before he married her. I’m beginning to think he agree to that before she married him. She has never said she was Muslim so who am I to assume she is? I don’t have to take Alex’s word for it that she took Shahadah.

    So, you see, I have no obligation to her whatsoever from an Islamic perspective. My responsibility to her is to respect her wishes and leave her alone. I don’t even have to give her the Salaams, as I don’t know whether she’s Muslim and she doesn’t return my salaams anyway. She puts me on total ignore.

    The way it is, Alex goes to her on schedule. What let’s me know my marriage is polygamous is the schedule. His sharing his wealth with her doesn’t matter anymore, as he was giving it all to his ex-wife’s kids, ex-wife’s grandchildren, his own nieces and a little to his nephew anyway. He simply stopped giving it to them and began giving it to Carolinah. Initially I was LIVID about him giving our marital wealth to her, but then just recently Allah gave me more than her and him put together and probably more than they will ever have in a lifetime. So, now him giving her some of his money doesn’t matter at all to me now. He still gives me what he’s supposed to and I will continue to accept it whether I need it or not.

    I’ve grown accustom to him being away too, and very much enjoy it. I’m looking forward to him being away on vacation with her at the end of the month (at her house, unless he lied and they will be going away, but who gives a flying f#$k). It’s nice having a single life and a married one while married, talking about having your cake and eating it too tongue
    It’s a beautiful world laughing

    Cindy and Jenny, you two don’t have to deal with your Ms.P s being in the same country as you. I too, don’t have to deal with my Ms. P (use your imagination for what her P stands for) laughing

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Jenny

    June 18, 2011

    @ Ana,

    I don’t understand the marrying from another country bit either.

    With my husband, he left Pakistan when he was 13 and raised in England. He was a U.S. citizen and lived his adult life here. When he married, of course it was arranged, he married and Ms.P lived in Pakistan, never venturing out of her village. He lived here.

    This story is far from uncommon. Just about every one of my male employees have wives in Pakistan. One driver hasn’t been with his family in four years. All they do is work and send their money home. Some stay faithful, but the majority don’t over time. Either they marry or commit zina over and over again. I’ve learned that if the wife and children do not come here with their husband’s, they will most likely never be brought over.

    I don’t understand it and it doesn’t seem like any kind of life. I’ve asked my husband about this and he says the women there are different. Sex is really nothing for them except for having children and for when the man wants it. Maybe things are changing, but I don’t think so in the tribal areas. I see how my step-children are very old-world (which is a good thing). I couldn’t imagine my husband living on the other end of the world. It just wouldn’t happen.

    Most of what I see is exactly how my husband describes it. The women hide in a room, wait for their husbands like horses outside a saloon, and speak when spoken to. So not me! winking

    I did have a laugh…when we first got married, my husband said things would change. Boy, was he in for a shock — not the kind of change he expected! laughing I do respect one of his quirks though. He is INSANELY jealous. He would have a colossal sh*t hemmorhage if I ever rode in the front seat with another man driving (including my drivers — I have to sit in the back) or if a man sat next to me in the office that was closer to me than my husband. He knows well that I won’t be tied up like the horse outside the saloon waiting for him. He learned that the hard way. Also, me not speaking, well, is kind of a big laugh! Not only do I talk, but when something needs to be said, I’m the one who does it because Hubs gets easily run over.

  • cindy

    June 18, 2011

    I don’t understand it either but believe me he would love to migrate her to the u.s which I’m sorry just isn’t a option for me. If she is willing to give up her time then who am I to complain… But I am completly fed up with their joint statement “oh but we only talk on the phone, You have me/him in your bed every night” I keep saying that that is their doing and Allah’s will not mine. Inshallah she will have that “joy” soon happy Ha! Ha! of having him in her bed so I no longer have to hear this excuse!! Allah knows best!!

  • ana

    June 18, 2011

    Cindy, I know you will probably be relieved once this is done(once they get married), if it’s going to happen, so you could move on with your life. Although, not a lot would change, as she will live in another Country; therefore the phone calls will continue. You’ll still hear the phone conversations, but at least you’ll get some breaks when he goes there for the selected months.

    It’ll just be nice to get the wedding over and done with so you don’t have to be subjected to all the planning. In retrospect, I guess it was a good thing Alex got married within six weeks of telling me that he was going to marry her. We got that part over quickly.

    I just don’t understand people marrying people from other countries, and only seeing them a limited amount of time. what’s the point?

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • cindy

    June 18, 2011

    I will only ans as much as I know. Per he/she she is a vigin and yeah I said 37. All the lies and rumors that are said about her are only said because she”speaks her mind” per him….You know you can be a “technical vigin” and do alot of things. I am not saying this is true of her and for my husbands sake I hope she is….although I did tell him how he would know if she was not and believe me he was very interested in that conversation. Per a recent conversation that I had with her she informed me that she refuses to have a pap test done as she is afraid that the speculum would “stetch” her and make her a non-virgin for my husband. Allah knows I am telling the truth about this conversation!! I proceeded to tell her/him that that test WILL NOT “de-virginize” her ( is that a word)?? and that I had my first pap done at 17 and was a virgin when I married my first husband…I also made sure to tell him (hubby) (not her )that i really really bled alot, which was true but then I felt guilty and told him some women barely bleed at all

  • ana

    June 18, 2011

    Cindy, did you say she is a 37 year old virgin? surprise Well, how did she learn to get all sexy for her photo shoots with him and talk the “nasty” talk without having indulged at sometime in her life? You don’t have to answer that. I’m sure you don’t know happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    June 18, 2011

    Oh, my goodness, that is just too totally bizarre – act like don’t want it and wait to be wanted i dont know Oh, well, to each his own. Alex is the opposite. He supposedly dealt with so much rejection in his life (first marriage and I guess you could include his and mine in there) that he waited for a “go” signal. It’s what he advised me. But, now that I don’t reject him anymore – you live it and learn it- he has a green light “go” most of the time.

    @Cindy, I’m with you regarding obtaining all that you are entitled to from your Marriage License applause If he were to divorce you to make her legal and bring her to the United States you best exercise your rights. Why shouldn’t you? Everyone else exercise their rights under their marriage contracts. What make a Marriage License any different? Carolinah didn’t like me having a Marriage License and he and she began to realize it entitled me to more than her and we weren’t equal doh Well, she knew before she married my husband that he and I were married with a legal Marriage License. So, that is what she signed on for and she just has to deal with it. Alex spoke with me once about dissolving our Marriage License so she could be equal. He must have been out of his f$%K*# mind. Who would do such an asinine thing?

    Cindy, you made a good point about the gift. He can accept it, but delay it until you’re able to go as well happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • cindy

    June 18, 2011

    @kadijah…Sister you did not offend me AT ALL. your comments on these subjects are always helpfull and appreciated….BIG HUG happy

  • khadijah Z

    June 18, 2011

    @ CINDY IM SORRY I WAS NOT
    TRYING TO OFFEND YOU IN ANY KIND OF WAY IF I DID IM SORRY

  • cindy

    June 18, 2011

    @jenny…starts with a P and ends with a R……way tribal and yeah my husbands parents sleep in seperate rooms but I think the younger generation does not do that and that they do share rooms

  • Jenny

    June 18, 2011

    @ Cindy,

    You are absolutely correct about the Pakistani woman has to act like she doesn’t want sex. I heard about that from my husband. They are not supposed to show any desire or want. They simply are to wait for when their husbands want to have sex with them. I don’t know where your family is from, but my husband is from the tribal area where it is customary they have seperate rooms and the husband goes to her room just for sex then goes back to his room. The “sleeping together concept” was totally unheard of by my husband.

    It was funny because when we first married my husband did not know what to think. Of course, seperate areas were out in my book and my husband had to get used to sharing a bed and a room with someone.

    I laughed at your comment about “not being all that in the bedroom.” All I will say is that is a Pakistani mens’ issue as well. I’ll say no more. winking I love my husband so I don’t care.

  • cindy

    June 18, 2011

    Salam all….Ok so all of you have made great points and I thank you for your input. Firstly I understand that umrah is not for sex which is why I condider it a odd choice for a father to gift a dgt for her honeymoon but we are talking about pakistanis here. secondly she and he claim that she is a virgin so she would be entitled to seven straight days but as she does not live in the us he will be with her for at least a month if they are in pakistan. Right now she is on a student visa (37) in england so they would leave pakistan together and stay in england for how ever many weeks they choose. As too her eventual living arrangements, he is trying ti migrate her to canada as it is much closer to the u.s and he would be able to see her monthly or maybe every other week. She did not score high enough to migrate to canada on her own a few years ago and it has only gotten tougher to do so since then. As both canada and england both recognize my my legal marriage and they do not recognize polygamy she will have to migrate as a “single” woman at least paperwork wise. He can of course divorce me to get her to the u.s but he understands that for me divorce is divorce and I will not keep my nikah so that he can migrate her easier. I will however sign the divorce papers in two seconds flat provided that they include ALIMONY, CHILD SUPPORT and every other weekend no overnight visitation with my children. If any divorce papers he may present me with do not include these conditions I will not sign them and I will drag out the whole process for as long as possible.I am an understanding person but I am not an idiot. So no kadijah there is not a chance in hell that she would ever “take over my sons room” so to speak. You see he is in construction and there are times when he does not work for weeks or months at a time (usually winter) I then (used) to cover all expenses. That has stopped since the whole 2nd wife issue came about. As to the “gift” issue in islam…All my husband would have to say is that although he appreciates the gift and inshallah he will use it that it would just plain not be right for him to take the second before the first. He would then not be refusing the gift…just delaying the acceptance. Oh yeah….my husband is sooooooo NOT ALL THAT in the bedroom happy but she is a virgin and will not know any better plus for whatever reason she will always have to ACT like she doesn’t want sex… So he will always have to kind of “force” or “convince” her if you know what I mean.It’s a paki thing I guess but it is so not my thing!

  • ana

    June 18, 2011

    Okhti K (Khadijah Z), I second you on what you said about Hajj/Ummrah not being a honeymoon thing. And Nura, I didn’t even think about Cindy’s Ms.P with respect to the fact that she is only to get 3 nights if and after she and Cindy’s husband wed.

    It seems in bad taste that the father-in-law would gift that to them as a wedding present. To send his daughter and son-in-law is a nice gesture, but the timing is off and there is no way Cindy should not be considered in the equation. She and their Ms. P have established a rapport. They (Cindy, Ms.P and Cindy’s husband) communicate. Cindy and Ms.P are cordial with each other. They all have an understanding with regard to living polygamy in their lives, and have accepted one another.

    I know Ms.P has some thoughts on this about how it would effect Cindy with Cindy being his wife for so many years and they have a child/children together. The father-in-law has placed Cindy’s husband in a precarious situation as well, because my understanding,(not from Quran), Muslims should not refused gifts in Islam.

    @Ohkti K, I envision it would be really nice if the four of you could go to hajj/ummrah together, for you all to experience it with one another at the same time as a family and to protect and help one another on the journey. How beautiful would that be? It’s something that would bond you together for a long, long time. Allah knows best! It’s one thing that strengthens the bond between Alex and me every time I think about our Hajj experience. He surprised me with the trip, paid for it, made all the arrangements and everything. He said we’re going. I definitely wanted to go and knew I had to as we could afford it, but I was just so fearful of the journey with all those people. It’s definitely a lasting memory. I have a huge wall tapestry of the khabah (the entire mosque) in our masallah and I think of our journey to hajj every time I’m in there.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • khadijah Z

    June 18, 2011

    @ All for Cindy she knows best of her husband in his faults in there life, and tho this woman he plans to marry has been in his hard on thoughts for 10yrs now dose not mean all will be disappointed on her wedding day if Allah Allows it to happen
    True this woman has not done right in her way of Allah or Cindy for that matter … I also do not remember reading where this woman is going to live? Has he made any plan for her as of yet, or started getting her things she will need like a stove, frig, bed, linens, cook ware, dishes or is he expecting you to force your son out of his room and put her there so he has quick access to do the doggy hump with you in the next room? sorry to be so vivid sad but what is the plan in regards to wear this woman will live after the marriage? Also i have to ask if Cindy and her husband are legally married how the hell he expects to get his new wife to the US assuming this is where your living, with out divorcing Cindy to do so legally?

    I remember after i married sherif to hear they all thought i was just a on line cyber affair.. sad not a good feeling to know i was thought of in this way or even worse to be said i needed a HIV test so not to ruin 3 house holds being i was the dirty American and not a virgin crying yes it still bothers me in thought, that they refused to even meet me till after the HIV test, but the day eh got the test he ran to show them i was not as they had stated or assumed me to be.
    Yes i was very angry and stated to him if anyone should ask for a HIV test it was me in regards to him and them being he had so many affairs and even had doubts of one of his children actually being his

    men dont have Itchy pants they just never get past using the one limp muscle in there bodies as a brain and as it starts to dissipate in there older years so dose there mentality in general so younger means lust and greed and older means falling apart and looking towards Viagra laughing

  • khadijah Z

    June 18, 2011

    Asalaam Alaykum Okhti’s pray all are well

    Ill just throw in my 2 piasters worth truth is @ Cindy the fact of the matter is Ummrah or hajj is some thing for an individual but i believe it should not be a honeymoon thing as to my knowledge there is no sex going on during hajj or Ummrah … and it should be a family thing where as if your husband can afford to send you and his son then why cant he do this to add to it as a family trip for all of you a Husband should take his wives
    but sorry it seems to me his thoughts are only in his new bride to be, May Allah be the best judge in this situation

    InshaAllah sherif will take us all however i think it will cost him to much to do so.

    he did say to up date my visa tomorrow so to go to Ummrah also but did not say if it would be soon or not and remember i also gave up making him use the money to send me to visit my family to go to Hajj and after fix our marriage papers of which ill probably remind him of tonight once he is home but some how i believe he still has only the 3rd in thought of this

    One of the last times i seen his mom she refereed to the 3rd as a snake who only kept talking of him sending her money for her to go live with him in KSA… i kept quite on the issue as i already had seen the effect on the 1st and his daughter over the issue and it spilling on to me was not a good thing for me at any point … he had stated many times before of sending me to see my family, but would not fix my marriage papers till after he got the 3rd there with him so it could not be stopped of him having that her bcos i would be there already sad
    this is what really tore apart the 1st and eventually lead her to start doing as she was doing to the point of even attacking me even i was looking for work in KSA to help in getting all of us there now i no longer care and pray he stays with the red sea job as long as possible and KSA work as only a part time during Hajj season like now… it also let me know that with out her or just her he would not be happy to any of us except her and so life goes on and you know love is just a word over used and worthless in pretty much every case

  • nura

    June 17, 2011

    Cindy has a few “up” on her, ladies. She has chosen to stay in the marriage where she has children. This other woman is marrying a man who can’t support her properly and who has children with another woman. And as much as he may be excited about sex with her, who knows what the reality will be. just saying, sometimes things are not what we think they will be(sometimes better, sometimes worse). they have been building up and playing for years. That’s a lot of hype to live up for, and cindy knows better than anyone how much of it the man can live up to. How much you want to bet that as soon as she unpacks her toothbrush(assuming this ever happens) he has a new online honey feeding his little man’s ego? The man has been playing with a woman who isn’t REAL for a decade now. Real women want real sex and real food and a real home and a real car. This man has enough money to drink to get drunk but can’t afford umrah OR another wife.

    He’s making his own bed, and it is filled with nails and vipers. Good luck with that.

  • nura

    June 17, 2011

    Jenny,

    Sister, I think boobies on hubby are the least of your problems. You need to get child proof medicine bottles. You need a 3 seat stroller for all your kids. Make sure your new home is childproofed before he moves, in, that’s all I can sayhappy

  • nura

    June 17, 2011

    Is he going to do umrah with her in 3 days and come home to you? She is(apparently) no virgin, that’s all she gets.

    Additionally, if he can afford to send you and son, he can afford to take you with him and leave your son home(sorry son). I would say though, that if your son is a good practicing Muslim, it might be less bitter to go with him than with an all but adulterous man who isn’t practicing Islam with any sincerity.

  • nura

    June 17, 2011

    Cindy, okhti,

    Those two have been ‘engaged’ for 10 years. I wouldn’t get your panties in a twist about this prospective umrah. Seriously. And if they do go-hopefully it will renew in him a sense of what he is supposed to be as a Muslim.

    I think you said he drinks and stuff-does she know this? You have put up with a lot in the marriage-how much is she willing to put up with-in reality?

  • ana

    June 17, 2011

    Oh, Cindy, about not knowing what’s in her heart or her intentions, you didn’t mention anything about her saying to daddy, your husband or you – how about Cindy, my sister-in-faith; she’d want to go too. How can we figure out how we can take her? Do you think you should talk to Cindy about it and see what she thinks first? Do you think Cindy will be OK? Does that not give you an idea what’s in her heart with regard to you?

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    June 17, 2011

    Cindy, I have to say, at least you know he loves you. Some men would just not care, and do what they want and need to do. The way your husband reacted tells you that he is confused confused about what to do, and is having a difficult time, figuring out how to handle it. I thinks it’s a man thing too. He probably doesn’t want to appear like a weak, wimp by going to the “father-in-law” sounding like an *itch, talking about I can’t go, if my wife can’t – so the “father-in-law can Say, “WHAT? You kiddin me!” Your husband needs to save face. At least if you go through her, as Jenny suggested, you allow him to save face. He’s in a predicament no man wants to be in. You better leave him alone. You don’t want him to “snap, crackle and pop.” feeling beat up Just keep making duah and wait patiently for Allah’s decision. What are your other options?

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    June 17, 2011

    Jenny, I think there is some merit in what you said about the “itchy pants” syndrome. Many men enter polygamy for all the wrong reasons. I truly believe that polygamy is for the BELIEVERS and we all know there are only going to be a few Believers as Allah says so in the Quran. We know that most of the people that we here about on this blog that engage in polygamy are not Believers. I’m not saying that all of them in it are not Believers; I’m only saying most.

    I always thought a man would have to be a millionaire in America to engage in polygamy properly. Instead we see a man taking from one family to give to another.

    I think what happens in most cases is that when a husband says he is going to do this polygamy thing, a first wife is not going to run up out of the marriage because she would be cutting off her nose to spite her face. Face it; we all have to weigh the pros and cons of leaving a marriage and usually the reasons to stay far outweigh the reasons to leave. Who wants to jump out of the pan into the fire. If what you have is good, (it doesn’t have to be great) why give it up? OK, granted, everything is not perfect, but it’s not perfect for anyone. If you love your husband and he loves you and most of your marriage is good, why leave? What, leave and go get a man that would claw your eyes out like in that article http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13777947 ? I keep referring to that article because what happened to that woman was serious and it makes me never want to leave Alex because he is a very good, loving, caring and patient husband to me.

    But, getting back to the point, I could see a woman marrying a married man; although, she would have to help support herself. She’s gaining a companion and a sexual partner and more. I think it would be worth it. I didn’t mind helping to support Alex and me when we married. When he first met me, he immediately wanted to marry me. He said he would pay everything and take care of me. We both were equals economically and financially speaking. We were on the same page in everything, but Islam. But, I opted not to have him pay everything for me. I want not to ever have to depend on anyone for anything except Allah.

    Jenny, you are new to Islam and it’s going to take time to get more understanding. But, being generous, giving and sharing is extremely important in Islam. There may come a time (Allah knows best), but Insha Allah, when you may want to freely give and help your Ms.P. Why? Because she is Muslim and it doesn’t sound she has any animosity towards you. She sounds to have a good heart, and is a good woman. She’s not trying to harm or disrespect you in any way. You would derive mega barakats (blessings) for helping to better her life, make it more comfortable and to share with her more. But, it takes time. Jenny, you are a good person. Just keep reading Quran and continue to study and grow in Islam. The more you give with sincerity to those deserving, the more benefits you reap and blessings will continue to pour themselves down on you abundantly from Allah. You’re going to continue to be OK. We all can stand to be better, especially me! happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Jenny

    June 17, 2011

    I think Cindy’s husband should make it up to her. It is his duty as a man to say something. After all those years they were married?!?

    I’ve learned a lot of hard lessons in my life and one that I learned is once you are stepped on, it becomes even easier the next time and the time after.

  • ana

    June 17, 2011

    Yep, I know, Cindy. Maybe the banging of the head banged some sense into his brain though. These husbands, including my very own, got some serious issues. It’s good your husband is having a sense of conscience about what he’s considering – going to Ummrah without you – WOH. He need to man up on that one. He needs to speak on your behalf to his “father-in-law or her (his intended).

    I think Jenny’s idea was sound since you and she have established a rapport. But, now that you commented and I’ve given it more thought – do you really want to go to her for assistance? You’re right too about the “one up on her”. I wasn’t speaking from an Islamic perspective, which I should always try to do. ALlah says nothing about something like that in the Quran so no one would know her “true” feelings and thought regarding this particular situation. I’m just looking at it from the average female perspective. She must know, however, this will hurt you. No one could not know that it wouldn’t hurt when Ummrah is very important; you haven’t taken the journey and of course you would want to do so with your husband.

    You’ve let your feelings and thoughts be known to your husband. All you could do now is put your faith and trust in Allah that He (Allah) will do what’s best for all three of you. Just exercise patience to see if it comes to fruition that he and she go. Perhaps Nura and Okhti K (Khadijah) have some suggestions, as well.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Jenny

    June 17, 2011

    One last thing I wanted to add, it’s not just the money, but maturity as well.

    I’ll be the first to admit my husband couldn’t handle two wives. He couldn’t be fair and I couldn’t see him dividing his time. Further, he would have a BIG problem with me as I would never relinquish the money for him to give someone else. I respect Ms.P, but she’ll never see a dime more than $250 a week.

    I could just imagine if Hubs announced he was getting married again and I had to give up the checkbook and sell my Mercedes so he could support his new wife! If he told me I couldn’t spend but just a few dollars every week for whatever, I would tell him to jump off a bridge! If a man takes another wife, the first family should not have to suffer for his selfish decision, as Allah stated the man had to be of able means. Please correct me if I’m wrong!

    I also think the women need to remind men of this because it violates our rights as well. What they are doing is not of Islam, it’s “Itchy Pants Syndrome.”

  • Jenny

    June 17, 2011

    @ Cindy & Ana,

    Once again please tell me why these men are taking an extra wife when they cannot even afford to support the first family?

    Is it fair to the first family who is just scraping by to sacrifice half again? Is it fair that the wife must go out to work to do her husband’s job?? Or go on public assistance?? Isn’t that lovely?

    I think if a man takes another wife, and correct me if I’m wrong, the Qu’ran states the husband must support her. Am I wrong? How do these men think of themselves as men when they are acting worse than rats? I don’t think this is what Allah had in mind.
    crying Moreso, why are the wives going along with this in the first place?

  • cindy

    June 17, 2011

    Asa ladies, I see the points you are making but there are a few things that should come from the husband. The point ana raised sbout my husband approaching the “father in-law with the fact that he should take his first wife to umrah first as she has been so accepting of the second to me makes the most sense to me. This I know he will never do as he is too afraid of offending him. I’m not to sure if she would see it as a “one up on you thing” only allah know our true hearts and intentions. So my husband just now proceeded to blame me for the fact that he hasn’t slept in days because of all thw worries I cause him to think about…He actually banged his head like four times on the kitchen cabinets and told me to “shut up about his plans” I’m sorry but I just laughed at him and said if you really wanted to hurt yourself you could have grabbed the knife that was next to you and did whatever you wanted with it!!! Way to much drama for me and allah knows he hates the truth. I said to him “if you were so very concerned about all your problems then why don’t you put your face to the jani-maz and ask for help from allah….but oh yeah that’s to much work for you…If you really wanted help then go for jummah as you were working next door to our masjid today…..MEN !!!

  • Jenny

    June 17, 2011

    Now you have a flavor of what my husband is like. I love him to pieces, but I tell him I did not marry him for his brains! laughing

    He does stuff like this ALL the time! Can you believe me now when I tell you he doesn’t know how to log into his email??

    I think I said before I even have to get his pills out for him, now you know why! I was surprised because he don’t take anything without me giving it to him. I was asleep and he didn’t want to wake me. Now if he grows boobies, Houston, we have a problem! laughing

  • ana

    June 17, 2011

    Jenny, don’t make me laugh, please laughing laughing laughing As soon as you said he POPPED one, I began to laugh, without even knowing what he popped. I just knew it wasn’t good, whatever it was laughing I was still laughing as I typed this.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Jenny

    June 17, 2011

    @ Ana,

    You know, it’s a damn shame with some of these men! It seems like they just do not have a brain in their head! Hearing some of this stuff, running back and forth between wives. Really now! In the case of what we were talking about, his running back and forth only sets a bad relationship between 1 and 2. It seems he is fostering the discord because his actions appear less than straight-forward.

    With Cindy, here is an idea that might be something to think about. I get the impression she and her Ms.P get along well and do a lot of talking with each other. Would it be wrong to discuss her feelings with her? From the position of an observer, I think the three of them can handle a trip together, like Nura. Just food for thought!

    Ok, since everyone has a beef with their husband, I’ll throw mine in the mix. Hubs goes into the fridge and sees a bottle of “pills.” He’s thinking they are his ibuprofen and pops one. Then he later asks me why I put his ibuprofen in the fridge. Hello Dumba$$, those were my $400 progesterone vaginal suppositories!!!! surprise And you guys think you have problems….

  • ana

    June 17, 2011

    I think it is really cool that Nura, her co-wife, their husband and the children are all going to Ummrah together, Insha Allah. I think the same may happen with Okhti K (Khadijah Z), her co-wives and their husband. It would just be so beautiful, if he could put it off until you all were able to go together. That darn father-in-law bring it on

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    June 17, 2011

    I don’t know, Cindy, it’s like she has one up on you if she goes with him to ummrah. It’s somewhat like when one wife has a child by the husband and another doesn’t. The playing field is not even, not that it’s a game. I’m just saying… It sounds the father-in-law didn’t think it though when he offered that gift (ummrah) to his daughter and your husband.

    Cindy, you’ve been doing really good with trying to see this thing through between him and her. It wasn’t much of a test for you, as it’s been pretty easy for you to accept and adapt to their relationship as far as them being intended. It may be that this is going to be the true challenge for you. I’ve always been told not to worry before something happens, as it very well may not. I’m not saying pray it doesn’t, but just know that it may not.

    It’s just sad that he seems so lackadaisical about the effect him going to hajj without you will have on you. Wow, is all I can say. Keep making duah on it Cindy. It’ll be OK happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    June 17, 2011

    See, in the case of Mrs.#2′s co-wife, if I may call her that, she’s been hit really hard, as there has been an ongoing history amongst the husband, the wife and Mrs.#2. My understanding is there has been bitter communications between them, during the course of Mrs.#2 operating a business with him. Mrs.#2 has been privy to her husband and his wife’s ongoing marital problems, which I don’t think is unusual for a second wife, but their problems impacted Mrs.#2′s relationship with him. He routinely quarreled with her (the first wife). He’d leave the first wife, go to Mrs.#2 and then return to first wife when things simmered. He may have done the same with Mrs.#2, if I remember correctly.

    It’s an awkward situation as there is no love lost between Mrs.#2 and the other wife. It’s not likely that the two of them would ever come to a place where they will be amicable to each other, based on their history. It will be interesting to see how their husband handles all the drama now. He doesn’t seem to be strong enough to lead from a position of strength. I mean dag, he couldn’t even bring himself to tell his first wife the truth until now. Since he has been accustomed to running away to the other when the going got tough, I wonder where he’s going to run to now straight face

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • cindy

    June 17, 2011

    Asa ana…Again I agree with you. I am very sad and even more sad that I am sad over this issue. I do know for a fact that I will now never do umrah with my husband as money is a very serious situation with us Of course Inshallah my son will take me and be my gaurdian so I may too have the experience but then I would be infringing on the time he may wish to spend with his own family at the time (he is only 16)… You see when I spoke with my husband last night he said….”So if you really want to go I will send you and (my son) and you can go together and me and (her) can go. So I think you and all who have a little understanding of my situation understands why I am so saddened by this. I do not know maybe it is a revert thing or a paki thingbut for me its just a painfull thing…..

  • muslimah+4

    June 17, 2011

    I also want to say that I know that the subsequent wifes do not gain a a wonderful life, without any pain. They also endure some pain, however it is the same but also very different then what wife #1 experiences.

    The second knows it is a secret and is waiting for the other shoe to fall. She’s kinda ready for the kick back. Wife #1 had no clue about what’s going to transpire, which leaves her in awe for lack of a better word.

  • muslimah+4

    June 17, 2011

    Ana you are so funny, “part-time husband, Ya think! LOL!

    I am not in polygamy at this time, but I totally feel for the first wives in all of these situations. It rips me apart, to think about the thoughts that shatain is putting in her head, as well as the very real betrayal from hubby. Not betrayal because he took another wife, but because he has secretly been married for almost a year on top of it! Its actually kinda sadsad what she is probably going through. It is going to take some time to deal with losing half of life as she once knew it.

    Mrs 2 my feelings are not directed toward you. I’m just sharing my thoughts.

  • ana

    June 17, 2011

    @Cindy, you undoubtedly are doing right by turning it over to Allah, and asking Him to comfort your heart with regards to it. I just think that yeah the father-in-law is paying for it and it’s an excellent opportunity for him (your husband), but he (your husband) needs to consider you a bit better. He could at least mention to his intended or the father-in-law what your concerns are and how you are hurt by the thought of not experiencing Ummrah with him. He can try somehow to include you in it – make an effort. I feel for you, cindy. It touches my heart thinking about it, as does knowing what Mrs.#2 husband’s other wife is going through.

    @Jenny, well, said!!! I felt your empathy for her in your words. It breaks my heart thinking about it. We had an idea it was coming, as Mrs.#2 has been preparing us for it by keeping us apprised of what was transpiring, but for it to actually happen…oh my goodness; it’s just so very sad sad It’s tearing my heart apart, as I been there and I know the devastation she’s going through. It should not be wished on anyone’s worst enemy.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • cindy

    June 17, 2011

    Thanx ana….i agree with you. I did calmly speak with him abt it last night and he said..what do you want me to do? I’m not even paying for it. He has a point and allah knows it will do him good but still. I am so upset wirh myself thst this is what is bothering me….not marriage not sex but umrah. I will ask allah to take this from me as he hss done woth everything else and inshallah i will be happy for them abd not saf for me

  • ana

    June 17, 2011

    Cindy, try not to get yourself too worked up over the plans for them to go to ummrah. Just because they planned it doesn’t mean that it will happen. Allah is the Master Planner.

    I’d be upset too, if I were you, having been married to your husband all these years and she gets to go to ummrah before you and experience something like that with your husband. Although you may be able to go at a later date, (although you counted it out already) it’s an experience that you definitely want to experience the first time with your husband together.

    Cindy, I would suggest you calmly sit down and speak with your husband about it. Explain to him that you feel and think that since you two have been married for years and you were his wife before her that you should experience ummrah with him first, before her. Would it be asking too much if you request he explain to his potential father-in-law that he believes it would be more just and fair for him (your husband) to go with you first or that you all go together (including you). He could explain he couldn’t possibly take that journey without you, Cindy. Who knows, maybe the father-in-law has enough wealth to send you too. I feel badly about it, Cindy, as I know how I would feel.

    I got bent out of shape when Alex first married Carolinah and he spoke to me about having to perform Hajj again (to take Carolinah) when he and I had discussed going to ummrah before he even married her. We discussed it as soon as we returned from Hajj (I think it was in the year 2005). We had already performed Hajj together, but I feel I need to go to ummrah too, as the experience at Hajj was so traumatic and overwhelming for me. I felt I didn’t do it good enough to get the best benefit for my soul. Granted, Carolinah has never been and I may sound selfish, but I don’t care. Those were plans he and I had made and I know she could care about Hajj or Ummrah as much as a man in the moon. Anyway, Alex agreed that he and I will perform Ummrah before he takes Carolinah to Hajj, if they go. It’ our intentions. I’m grateful to Allah that Alex reconsidered, and will oblige my request. Allah knows best what will happen.

    Cindy, try to speak with him and see what you could workout. Even if you have to come up with some of the money. It’s a first time experience you don’t want to miss with your husband.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Jenny

    June 17, 2011

    @ Ana,

    You said it so perfectly, you literally took the words out of my mouth! She is losing more than half a husband, she is really losing half her life! Not only will she lose half time, half her money, but she also loses half her memories as well. Half of the holidays she’ll be home twiddling her thumbs watching other families spending it together. Her children will only have half a father as well. Her children will develop and have their own issues and adjustments as well. She has a whole heck of a lot more tossed on her plate that was no doing of her own.

    As far as #1′s prior actions, that should not even enter into any thought. How many times do husbands complain about their wives and when there is trouble in a marriage, turn to another woman and bad mouth the wife?

    Imagine the wife finding out that not only did her husband commit zina, but lived a double life for an entire year!! I would be in mortal shock! To me, this woman’s pain is palpable even over cyberspace.

    You know I have my own inner issues with polygamy and I really don’t know what to call my life/marriage as we are not “living” polygamy. Polygamy is not for me and if I had one iota more on my plate, I could not handle it. With that said; however, one thing I will say, speaking badly of Ms.P is something I cannot do. I know she’s made sacrifices and is a good Muslim. To bring up “#1s fornication” is not nice either; especially, since it was heard second hand, I think its wrong to speak badly about another Muslim.

    Ana, you know my feelings about polygamy, and I’ve certainly never made my views secret. Yes, their marriage is halal, but for the love of God, give this woman some space and a chance to heal. Mrs.#2 should not even push for communication at this point. This lady needs to be left alone to even sort out what her issues even are before she makes the decision to see if she even wants to deal with it.

    If this was a poly marriage like Nura’s, that is a totally different cup of tea. But she has to deal with zina, children and a whole pile of stinking &$#@! before she can deal with a halal marriage.

    In my opinion….

  • ana

    June 17, 2011

    To elaborate on what Muslimah+4 stated: a second wife received 1/2 of husband, she meant the second does not have a husband full-time, as in a monogamous marriage; nonetheless, the second wife gained a husband, but has to share him.

    I remember when Alex first married Carolinah, he said she complained to him saying she felt like she had a “part-time” husband. Well, doh. Do ya think???

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    June 17, 2011

    Okhti K (Khadijah Z), I would think I wouldn’t care whether he married another if he divorced one, as there has always been so many. So what would it matter if there is one more or a replacement one. Realistically speaking, of course, it matters. You explained your concerns about a wife being divorced and replaced and it makes absolute sense. You’re in a unique position, Okhti K. Most here can’t understand a woman being a 4th wife or a third for that matter.

    I read in one of the books that I have about the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) or a book about his (PBUH) wives that the wives used to be curious as the whether the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) would return from an expedition, journey or whatever, with a new wife and what she would look like etc. Of course there was no need for “mutual consultation” (Nura nicely, expounded on that aspect), as polygamy was the norm during his time; he taught all how it was to be done by limiting it to 4 wives etc, and his wives were selected by Allah to be the “Mothers of the Believers.”

    All of the concerns that you voiced, Okhti K (Khadijah) seems valid. I understand how you would have them and now I see how I could have them, as well, if I were in your position.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    June 17, 2011

    Muslimah+4 wasn’t speaking a foreign language when she stated one wife lost 1/2 a husband and one wife gained 1/2 a husband. It was a figure of speech that represented what happens regarding a 1st wife compared to a second wife when the husband marries another while already married. I’m sure most understood what Muslimah+4 stated, as we’ve discussed it a number of times on the blog.

    In the case of Mrs.#2 husband’s other wife, she is dealing with the OFFICIAL loss of her husband 1/2 the time when she had a full-time husband before. She OFFICIALLY loses 1/2 of his resources and 1/2 of everything else that she was supposed to have before, whether she actually had it or not.

    Mrs.#2 can debate that her husband’s other wife never had a full-time husband and on and on and on. The point is he was her husband and hers alone in her eyes. No one revealed to her that her husband had another wife – until just recently. Perhaps she assumed he was having an affair or whatever – who knows. She was never told OFFICIALLY until recently that her husband had married another – and had been married for one whole year this coming July (2011) for that matter. So not only is she dealing with a husband that married another and her marriage is polygamous, but she is dealing with deception, lies and adultery on his part.

    It doesn’t matter that she should have suspected, or what she was out there (in the streets) doing, or that she wasn’t taking care of things at home or blah, blah, blah; bottom line is she was just advised of the OFFICIAL state of her marriage – what her marriage has become now. Consequently, she is going through a thing with it just like any other wife that learns her husband has married another, secretly. It’s difficult enough when a wife is advised beforehand that her husband is going to marry another, let alone be told one year after he’s done it.

    I don’t think anyone that rationally looks at what happened with this woman would expect it to be easy for her, but, of course, there are some people that very well may not care, if their needs are being met and they’ve reaped benefits from it. I’m not saying this is you Mrs.#2, as you indicated you do care.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • khadijah Z

    June 17, 2011

    Asalaam Alaykum, Okhti’s Jummah Mubarak may Allah accept all our prayers and Du’aa this day and every day, Ameen

    @ Mrs 2 not a problem okhti your right i in for mentioned of the 4 i have only a 1/4 of a husband, however he is still my husband and when its our time he is MY husband despite how many times they call to try and get him to leave me my night or steal my time from me

    It is not an easy thing for any of us actually not me or my co wives

    i have often thought what if it becomes worse between he and the 2nd as he stated once before “better to let one go then to allow to destroy the rest”
    I have also thought if it happened what if later he takes another after me younger then even the youngest will it be easy NO! it will yet be starting again over to coupe with yet what may be a good Muslim or not one who may try and do what i have heard many state of coming in and trying to cos so much fitna that she sees only to take him to herself being the youngest and maybe she will cause so much grief to destroy all our marriages

    It is possible that we all have our own thoughts in how to express what we feel or think is our role or rights in our marriages, and place even the worse one in a place that non will want to accept them

    but the bottom line is its not our choice or wants to have it is however Allah’s choice and that of our husband for what ever the reasons are

    i can say if he took yet another i fear all these things, why maybe my age, maybe be my aspirations of all the fight i have endured, so far will be no longer enough to have the patients i have left to fight on

    Mrs 2 do what your heart tells you, and never forget all that Allah has inspired for us in this life we live as if we fall short in it then the gap opens and shataan gets that foot in and all my fall apart then

  • Mrs.#2

    June 17, 2011

    I think thats a narrow way of looking at it. Hes not half of a husband or man … He maintains, protects and provides where ever he is for both. The time may be split but hes not. To say that is to say that Khadijah only has a quarter for a husband and if u are stating bcuz hes not always at home thats why..then per ur summation she has no husband bcuz hes away for weeksata time at work..sorry K..jus using u as illusttration…we can not equate any relationship withthe amount of face time…we love people and have relationships with people and maintain those relationshipswiththem and dont see themfor long periods of time…he sees us both everday pretty much…and our lives mov forward and the relationship grows regardless ofwhich bed he sleeps in…so u r saying Allah made it permissible to only give u HALF of what he intended for u a mate? Where does it state in the Quran or a Hadith thathe becomes half? I COMPLETELY DISAGREE.

  • muslimah+4

    June 17, 2011

    As Salaamu Alaikum,

    How can you say that you did not take anything from her by marrying her husband? We all know that he is your husband too, and it is halal. However you gained half a husband and she lost half a husband. May Allow guide you all and grant you patience and ease. Ameen

  • Mrs.#2

    June 17, 2011

    Yes…I did marry him..but I married MY husband..while she was still married to HERS…i know..tomato..tomato..lol….but me marrying him didnt take away her husband from her…and thatwasnt the intent…so at this point as she transitions either in (which shes in now) or out we both give patience not just to her but the situation…I undrstand more than he does…but she too has to do work to come to her conclusions…and I pray that she does…I dont have everything as u think…transition is slow bcuz we both think that putting immediate changes like a schedule will be a bit much on her in this moment..it will happen but trying to llet het digest the shock first..ask questions etc…I feel for her and hope she does contact me..I would have loved for someone to support me thru my growing pains…and if u think I didnt have them ur wrong. In addition yes we committed adultery but they committed fornication..we all will be held accountable and must answer to Allah. But that doesnt make our marriage less valid

  • Mrs.#2

    June 17, 2011

    @Ana…Sister take the gloves off I come in peace..hahahaha. And I say that with much love…first off…I dnt think I was reflecting anger..but if some frustration camr thru then maybe. I wouldnt say that Im angry other than she went and lied about what she did telling someone…but I never said I didnt sympthize with her. I DO NOT relate to C bcuz first Idont know her side and frm what u say me and her are ot alike. I have allways understood what u were saying and empathized with u. Its because we all experience the same emotions here at one time or another..we have felt at times what each other is feeling. I HAVE been betrayed before..so I understand. To say I am feeling ducky..not true. Its not jus about her knowing its about NOW being a healthy family if possible. I much compassionfor her and am very willing when she decides to reach out to talk to her about making this work. She needs support I did and I found some of that here…this situation id not go as planned and I always wnted her to knw..

  • cindy

    June 17, 2011

    Asa all…first off you really made me laugh ana about the whole “t” thing..thankswinking how about a new word POONANI???? Means the same thing! So i need to vent a little…hubby informed me that his intended’s father is sending them for umrah for. Kntheir honeymoon. I am so very upset about this as i know now that i will never go for umrah with my husband. I kno

  • nura

    June 17, 2011

    “only has three wives”

    Oh, my heaven, my eyes went right on past that,as did my mind and my heart and then I suddenly had a flash of how SURREAL is it that it didn’t ‘strike’ me as odd? “Only” three wives??? That man needs to marry you! Legally and properly to protect you. That should be his first priority, before the faucets and the flannels! He needs to provide for this very real need that you have.

    I know, preaching to the choir. . . and yes, there are choirs in Islam, my husband used to be in onehappy

  • khadijah Z

    June 17, 2011

    @ Ana & Mrs #2 my need of a legal valid marriage is to insure im seen as sherif’s wife here in Egypt so not ot be deported and also to be able to travel as his wife also as here your wives and children are put on the husbands papers where it states he only has 3 wives, makes it esp hard to travel to KSA

  • Jenny

    June 17, 2011

    @ Ana,

    You said it beautifully. #1 is probably going through some major changes. I was in a similar boat because Ms.P didn’t know about me for a long time. Keep in mind, I was never a secret and he wanted to tell his family, but I was afraid how things might have changed. I loved living in my ignorant bliss and denial of their existance. But now being pregnant, that changed. Bless my husband’s heart, he did it and never told me until later. I was afraid of his mother rejecting me. You know what a sensitive issue this is for me; this whole Pakistan thing.

    I was lucky, immediately the family love came pouring out. Even her family, which is also my husband’s family, as they are first cousins. I never heard one word from Ms.P, but knowing how women are in Pakistan, I am not surprised. Her father is very kind to me, calling me a couple of times a week seeing how the babies are and asking for business advice. Surely if his daughter (his only one too) was in a state of pain, he would have said something to me, but didn’t. His children call me mother, which my husband explained when we married that I would be considered “mother” as the concept of the “step” family is foreign to them.

    I don’t know what kind of reaction I feared. Would she want rights? Would she demand to come to the U.S? Did she really think the husband she had for 15 years and NEVER lived with was going to be faithful to her? These were questions in my mind. Truly, I was confused. I guess what I was expecting was far worse. Allah, in his kindness, did not allow any drama to unfold my way. Ms.P has never said anything to me. Even if she was upset or angry and he told her to leave me alone, she would listen to him. No one has ever told me she was upset, nor did I ask my husband. Sometime in our lifestyle, you know when not to ask questions.

  • ana

    June 16, 2011

    Mrs.#2, I don’t mean to be way harsh with you right now, it’s just that I’m sympathetic to her as I know firsthand what she’s going through. It’s the same with you; you probably understand what Carolinah went through and is going through. We relate to those that are like us. Please don’t think I’m equating you with her based on her morals or should I say lack of. I’m only referring to the two of you marrying men that were already married.

    I only now understand and accept that I should not be angry or upset that Carolinah married Alex. I believe Allah chooses our mates and it was decreed he (Alex) and Carolinah would marry. There is nothing wrong that you married him (your husband). We will all be held accountable to Allah for how we go about doing things and although things are decreed by Him we are still held accountable for those things (only Allah knows why He does things the way He does).

    At this time she needs time. It’s going on almost five years that I am living a life of polygamy and all the time I grow stronger and accept what Allah has decided for me WILLINGLY. It’s going to take time for her too. She’s going to go through all that everyone else has that have spoken as first wives on this blog. It’s all I’m saying.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    June 16, 2011

    It would be nice right about now if your husband showed his wife (his first wife) some compassion and patience based on all that she is going through right now, regardless of what they have been through in the past. You know all that I went through when Alex advised me he was going to marry Carolinah and after. Alex advised me that he and she planned to marry only 6 weeks or less before he did it. I’m grateful to Allah that Alex was always extremely patient, kind, compassionate and understanding with me once it happened. He may not have been before marrying her, as he did not give me more time to digest what he was about to do.

    His other wife needs some compassion, patience and understanding from her husband right now. I know what that woman is going through because I’ve been there. She’s a human being. You’re feeling quite fine and ducky right now because you have what you want and you didn’t lose anything by marrying her husband.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Mrs.#2

    June 16, 2011

    My opinion in the states licensing is a big brother program and ways for them to watch u and tax u..lol…I think in ur situation Ana..the license carries more weight bcuz she married for money..In mine and the way she TRIED to fling it around it means nothing…when u put my whole situation in perspective. Yes…there are alot ofthings tht are in place now thtwerent during the time og the Prophet (PBUH)..BUT tht doesnt mean they are right..IM NOT SAYING marriage lic are wrong..but study their origins and purpose of origination ..I posted tht long time ago…theyhave NO basis in Allah At all…if u have one use it for the good of Allah..thts all im saying..not u specifically jus people in general…

  • ana

    June 16, 2011

    Mrs.#2, well, finally everything is out in the open and there are no more secrets. We’ve all been together here on the blog for quite some time now and we know of the various emotions that we all have and what many have experienced with polygamy. It is only right that you should expect her to be in a state of shock, devastation and feeling a bit out of control in her life right now. She is his wife, regardless of what they have been going through and which one of them have been doing what. They are husband and wife and have a history. No one can expect any woman to find out that her husband has another wife and expect her not to react in all kinds of ways, even crazy ones (ways).

    She just found out her husband is married to another woman and has been for almost one year now. In July it will be one year. What do you expect from her? Congratulations? Immediate acceptance? It wouldn’t happen with any woman so why would you expect it to happen with her? Be mindful as well that her husband did have an affair with you before you married him. We don’t care what you did, but her husband DID commit ADULTERY and it’s serious.

    Perhaps she is calling on Allah at this point and grasping at whatever she can from Quran. What is wrong with that? We are supposed to turn to Allah – all the time – not just in crisis. But, when a crisis does occur we are especially supposed to turn to HIM. Perhaps Allah has made this happen so that she can turn to HIM and begin to serve HIM (ALLAH) better. Perhaps Allah caused this to happen to bring her closer to HIM. Just because someone has done something(s) in the past that was wrong/bad/evil/horrific or whatever does not make them unworthy of turning to Allah. It’s a good thing.

    How do you want her to act/react right now, based on the information about your relationship with her husband and your husband that she just found out about? Why are you so angry with her? You and your husband kept your marriage secret from her – his wife for one year. What are you expecting? He is her husband and she is his wife, regardless of what problems they had in their marriage.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    June 16, 2011

    My question is why would a “Marriage License” from the United States be insignificant? It’s a contract just like the contract any husband and wife make between them. It doesn’t conflict with anything in Islam. Contracts in Islam are permissible and are to be honored.

    Many here on the blog speak of the contracts/legal documents they have regarding their marriages in various countries and speak of documents needed for various other reasons too, like Visas etc. just to travel. Why would a Marriage license from the United state have any less weight?

    Yes, Allah is a witness to all things, even the marriages that aren’t registered or don’t have a legal document recognized by the State or Country, but it’s no reason to minimize the value of a “Marriage License.”

    And it is no excuse that the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) didn’t have one. There are a lot of things that we have in the year 2011 that were not in existence during the time of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), but it doesn’t make it haram. Look at all the legal documents and license that are needed in this day and age for all types of things, but no one is complaining about those.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • khadijah Z

    June 16, 2011

    good going okhti Mrs.#2 im vry proud of yo more so then i am of my self as of late

    Allah will continue to guide you always in your straight path, Ameen

  • Mrs.#2

    June 16, 2011

    So in her current distress shes not sure how to cope…understand that emotion…so he told her to possibly talk to me..she is supposedly gonna email me…my only intention is to guide her to Allah and study the scripture and life of the Prophet (PBUH)…if she starts with this its wrong OR my husband crap convo over…I am willing to be supportive IF AND ONLY IF shes sincere in her acceptance…I think this may be an unusual move between wives however I pray that Allah is pleased. Who knows she may show up here in her quest for understanding…
    Should be interesting.

  • Jenny

    June 16, 2011

    Mrs.#2,

    I hope she follows Allah and the drama settles. I was just pointing out that she has the ability to hurt him, and indirectly you.

    Hopefully, compassion will enter into this and the way of Allah is followed; however, that is not always how it happens.

    When I had my law firm, there were a lot of Muslims that came to me for divorces (I served the Pakistani community). Sometimes in those divorces, they got so nasty it was like, Allah Who?

    It is my hope for you she chooses the right path!

  • Mrs.#2

    June 16, 2011

    @Jenny..I would respectfully have to disagree with u on ur comment if she had half a brain she could leave him broke and if children reek havoc…the way I interpret that is if she was thinking she would do these things. FIRST..she is NOT my nor his sustainer and provider…a legal paper may entitle her to “do somethings” which in our case no assets…but that is not of Allah. IF there is to be divorce the quran outlines it and should she or he choose 2 pick n choose which parts to adhere to based on emotion they will suffer consequences..plain and siimple. ALLAH provides n shld she close one door shld Allah see fit He will open anothr.I can only FEAR Allah n do not fear the mischief she is or may continue 2 make…that is devilishment n 2 fear her or her actions is to set an EQUAL with Allah. If she had half of her faith she would seek Allahs counsel in this time..period. She is lip professing y this isnt right but she must be skiiping scripture tht states otherwise. U cant read the quran jus 2 suit ur mood

  • Jenny

    June 16, 2011

    @ Mrs.#2,

    I’m sorry you are going through that drama. Did she just find out about you? Maybe she has feelings she has to work through. I’m sure if she just found out she is thinking there is something that must be wrong with her and all the emotions that the women feel.

    While Allah recognizes marriages supremely, the legal status (if you are in the states) does mean something. If she had half a brain, she could leave your husband very broke for a very, very long time. If she has minor children, she could wreck havoc with his life for years! And that havoc will spill into your life as well.

    I am like you, I am #2, but I am also in a unique position of being #1 in the U.S. I’m not debating the Muslim aspect of this, just the legal one. Ms.P is in Pakistan and she does not have one shred of paper to even say that she is married. I have the marriage license in the U.S. For twenty years before we married, he has always been listed as single on his tax return and insurance. “Married” has only been that way since we’ve been married.

    The point I am trying to make, is if someone ever came along, they would get NOTHING. I outright own everything we have in my name only. The house, the condo, the cars, and 100% of the business stock. I have every credit card, the ATMs and the checkbook. If #1 is in a similar situation, that would impair his ability to support you financially. Just keep your eyes open. I don’t know your situation, but if a woman is scorned — watch out! I am all for CYA (Cover Your Assets)!

  • Mrs.#2

    June 16, 2011

    I honestly have to thank Allah for the first wives here in sharing their experiences that have helped me to feel empathy towards here and the additional wives here for showing me how to gracefully stand my ground. She as I type is throwing a hissy fit…but the thing about this is that this is abt their marriage these types of actions and dramas were going on between them LONG BEFORE I came in the picture..this situation has only add extra and is not the main problem. Hes not budging in his position and she jus keeps throwing a bigger fit and hurling more condemnation which is only pushing him away…she trying to use emotional blackmail and that really never works…we will see what he does. Either way I am doing fine truth is here so whatevr comes from it I am prepared. she really showd her colors and who she is yet again. If he goes back its on him. Sura 64 – 14 and 15…she thinks if he “stops this choice” that shes the automatic…only he and Allah know whats in his heart…legal status guarntees nothn.

  • nura

    June 16, 2011

    dear mrs. #2,

    Wow, drama. If he ever takes another, you have a very good example of what NOT to do. I hope all goes well for you all and you can find a peace about this, one way or another, Okhti. It’s not easy being any of you right now.

    N.

  • Mrs.#2

    June 16, 2011

    So heres the update…I took the stance based on the history that even tho she said she was signing on..she was doing nothing more than holding on..big difference. And allah as my witness within 5 days of her finding out…she started..not only has she given ultimatums..but has attempted to tell him its adultery etc…and the cake topper? She stabbed him in the back. She went and discussed the situation as she had claimed she wouldnt with someone…she claims it was for clarity etc…but hes LIVID. it was with someone at his job…she had promised she wouldnt and did….he has told her flat out this is a vlaid marriage and that hes not leaving it…she is trying to make him choose and thinks shes the choice…she did try to ride im the legal wife move..but we all know that is subtext and means a hill of beans..Allah is what a marriage is about not what some state in the US decrees. Shes using bits of scripture (falsely) to state her case..very sad I might add. This is there histroy tho..

  • ana

    June 10, 2011

    I wouldn’t want to meet up with “C”, as I have abused her so badly with the text messages and a couple phone calls – I have TOTALLY stopped, now. All praise is to due to Allah. I truly believe Allah will not permit me to do it again and I have sought His forgiveness. No more communications between her and me.

    Alex and I again were talking about who we’d contact, if the other died. I rattled off the name of the people. He then asked, with a huge smile, “That’s it”? (I didn’t include “C” ). I said, “That’s it”. Do he really think I’d reach out to that %itch and tell her anything when she has made it clear from day one that I don’t exist and she wants nothing to do with me. Well, she’s getting her wish. Plus, I was told by my wali, I owe that woman nothing because I don’t even know for a FACT that he and she are married and she has let me know from before she and Alex got “married” she wants NOTHING to do with me and she has kept her word.Furthermore, she has never claimed to be Muslim.

    Getting back to the point, she’s a weird type of woman. She saves and reads my messages over, over, over, and over again, until Alex goes and deletes them, according to Alex. She lets all the stuff I’ve said seep into her subconscious. So, I’m fearful of what she’d do to me, if we were to meet face to face. She tells Alex that I am a “punk”. I don’t deny it. I’ve never had a physical confrontation with anyone in my entire life other than my biological sister and it was minor. “C” comes from the rough side of the woods. I imagine she could beat me down real bad. She could put a whooping on me. I tell Alex, yeah, maybe I am a “punk”, so what? In my eyes, for a woman to be the opposite of a “punk” is to go out there and throw down like a man. It’s not in me. I don’t know how to do that.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Lynn

    June 10, 2011

    woah ! i am so glad i don’t have to see Ms. P. It has been a year. i wonder what i would do if i see her … screaming like a mad lady ? i don’t think so … i got class tongue

    now i have stop texting her … it has been a long while knowing she is not having it easy too is enough for me. May Allah forgives her.

  • khadijah Z

    June 10, 2011

    Asalaam Alaykum Okhti’s and Jummah Mubarak for all

    @ Mrs.#2 Alhumduillah for every thing okhti finally Allah has put it into light and you carried it off beautifully i might add no reason to jump around like a fool even if the other is doing so, we respect ourselves in this manner. very glad and proud of you at the same time despite all he and she have put you through
    Allah bless you always okhti, Ameen

  • ana

    June 9, 2011

    Mrs.#2, As Salaamu Alaikum!

    I was wondering if you and your husband have discussed how he would divide his time and money, if his first wife opts not to divorce, but remains married to him. How do you think you three would work the schedule?

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Mrs.#2

    June 8, 2011

    I was nice and compassionate..but when she heard the truth..they talked and then asked me a few questions..her tone had changed..but I put my foot down when she tried to tell me to leave and go to work so they could continue talkin ON MY PORCH! ummmmmm..NOT. i told her oh no..you all goto ur house and finish this im not leaving until u leave. So she told him to get his car and pulll around..i told her No..he will come in and see me off to work and will be around in a few minutes…lol…she said to him..so u do what she says now? I told her it was respectful…she tried to be disrespectful but I nicely reminded her that I opened my door..came out to speak to her and was respectful and I expect the same. I did feel compassion even after..wondered if she was alright..but when she sent him the are u going astray text..I knew its gonna be MORE of the same stuff. She wants me gone and I told her flat out IT AINT HAPPENIN!!

  • Nura

    June 8, 2011

    Mrs. 2; I hope a weight was lifted for you also. After all that time, it’s a shame he and you suffered with that burden when it’s out now anyway.

    My friend that I cautioned about the 2nd marriage if it was going to be a secret-has decided to hold off on the idea. I told him a lot of things, but basically pointed out that marrying a revert and being there much less than half time with the restrictions of being married and being cut off from her family AND his was a cruel thing to do, and he needed to think of the children and the first wife when he passes-being sideblinded by a second. Not to mention (as I told him) most of the secret marriages end in a divorce, and he is going into it and needs to know that unless he is some kind of superman, there is almost no way that a secret marriage will stay secret, and if so, one of the wives is really going to be screwed over in the end. I also reminded him that while the prophet married without asking consent or even necessarily informing, it wasn’t like he was keeping it a secret from anyone, or that it was going to cause a shock. It was culturally acceptable and even expected. Anyway, he is re-thinking it. I am glad. I think that the secret wife thing is not a good thing for either marriage.

    I sure wish YOU and them the best. I hope it works out.

  • ana

    June 8, 2011

    Mrs.#2, I’m sure he does feel like a weight has been lifted. I think all three of you are feeling a whole host of different emotions about the truth being revealed. It’s the absolute best thing that could have ever happened to the three of you. No more secret, lies, and deceit. I pray Allah is well pleased with all three of you. Now you the three of you are going to have to figure out how to go forward, either with just you and him or her included. Time will tell whether she is actually pregnant or it’s a ploy to buy time, and try to win him back and rid him of you.

    Wow, I feel for her too. I know what she is going through firsthand. Sometimes it takes something like this to make us straighten up and fly right. I know from experience. This will put their relationship into perspective. There’s no more time for game playing between the two of them.

    I know you have to be relieved about it all coming out in the open. Now you have to see what type of relationship you and she will have if any. You know what she is going through, based on being part of our blog family here. It’s devastating. I pray the best for you, Mrs.#2, and her and him too.

    Let us know how things go. Don’t be so much of a stranger happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Mrs.#2

    June 8, 2011

    She was told the TRUTH today..she now knows we are married and have a home together..she showed up at the house…shes now trying to convince him that hes gone astray from thy teachings…and shes proclaimed shes pregnant..altho shes known for three weeks and last week he moved out and she was divorcing him and failed to mention it..not sure I buy tht story jus yet. She took it well but I think shes stunned bcuz he remained nuetral and didnt deny me or my opsition to her..she tried the MY husband crap and I told her hes mine too…and to stop the possessive talk..she was stunned when he told her u both see me as the husband…and when she asked if i want us to be together and she doesnt exist he told her u need to think about what u just been told and think on that…so ladies after over a year..truth has been set free. Im relieved yet still a little anxious…wow..it finally happened!!!…he says he feels like a weight was lifted….

  • ana

    June 3, 2011

    @Jenny, I hope you’re feeling better, and are getting a lot of rest. I know what you mean about not being able to get something done, no matter how much or how well you planned it. We plot and plan, but Allah is the Master Planner. He shows me that everyday. That alone is enough to clear up the question of “free” willy winking I better not get started hee hee

    I have a habit of accumulating papers, mail, documents etc. I can’t for the life of me bring myself to go through them and file or discard them. I’ve finally realized I should ask Allah to let me do it. All we need to do is ask Allah for help. How often do we try to do everything on our own and only turn to Allah as the last resort? I’m guilt as charged!

    Regarding jealousy, I think it’s in all of us, regardless of what our conditions or circumstances. I’ve been reading an excellent book about how to eradicate these base emotions. It all comes down to the remembrance of Allah. The book is “The key to Salvation” – cost me $33.00 and it’s not even hardcover, but it’s worth every single penny.

    Jen, take good care of yourself. Get some rest and let hubby give you a good pampering this evening happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    June 3, 2011

    Okhti K (Khadijah Z)

    I’m so happy you’re back happy I hope on a regular again. I missed you more than words could say. I didn’t know when you’d be back home. I’m just glad you are. I pray you’re feeling better. Get your health back in order. I’m sure Sherif is so terribly concerned about you. It was terrible conditions you were living in over at that house, way not worth the headaches, body ached and aggravation, not to mention the little bit of pay. There is no need for you to go back there. Allah will continue to provide for you, as long as you continue to believe He will.

    Okhti, it was one hell of an experience for you. I did get some good laughs out of you rehashing what you went through. Although living it wasn’t fun and games for you, you could look back at it and say you were one tough cookie happy

    Okhti, do you think you could help Alegna out over at http://polygamy411.com/2011/02/16/we-are-not-bad-muslimahs/#comment-15678 , regarding your co-wives children and how they coped with telling the children about the other wives, if you recall. It would be much appreciated , if you can.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • khadijah Z

    June 3, 2011

    Thanks Okhti Nura Alhumduillah for all have no choice but to laugh it off. laughing
    still waiting her call maybe she got the hint or maybe she will call early in the morning either way dont matter i wont see that car lean when she gets in again laughing

  • Nura

    June 3, 2011

    Khadijah, sister! You are amazing. You spent the last few weeks in some kind of nightmarish hell and you found the bright spot-your boss has a bigger hind end than you do. If anyone could make a silk purse out of a sows ear, it would probably be youhappy I love you-I want to go to Egypt just to visit you! My FIL is a dentist so, I’m scared to meet him-YOU, though, man. . .happySomething to look forward to. TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF sis! And make that husband of yours do his duty. You know he loves you, tell him you need some hard proof right now cause you need him. Nothing wrong with needing them every now and again, right?

  • Nura

    June 3, 2011

    Ana, okhti,you are a kind woman to me! My husband right now has a boss that expects him to be there 24/7, two wives 2 kids, and he is studying for a professional certification that is a big deal and matters a lot to him. He also teaches twice a week after work and of course, prays 5 times a day. I thank Allah for the prayer time-if nothing else, it gives him 5 times a day to breathe, and I know that reconnection for him is really important. I really do not want to add to his stress and I have been lately-its been a bit much for me, kids, hormones, accident, medical crud in general. . .aaarrgghh. I am actually just going to make my emotions take a rest, love him every minute he is home and know that I have the time I was told, I have the husband I want, a lovely home and I know that the hard parts that I know about will be over soon enough-new ones will happen, but I’m not borrowing trouble!!

    He came here after jummah and I fed him and in spite of our best intentions, he delayed a little more on the studyinghappy I love Islam. He read some hadith about satisfying his wife and he takes it very seriously. I feel bad for other religions.happy

    So, he is napping now and will study some more when he is done. I am hoping we order pizza for dinner, but he loves my cooking, dang it!happy

    HEY JENNY: In your monumental garden, if you are growing zucchini (koosa, did you know the prophet, pbuh, loved it?)remember that if you let it get big it isn’t nearly as good. Everyone here gets little ones usually 4-6 inches and they are actually yummy. You would not have to dump them on a neighbors doorstep and hurry to escape before they found out. I remember zucchini dumps of enormous monster zucchini when I was younger. Just pick them when they are little guys. Much, much better.

    N.

  • Jenny

    June 3, 2011

    @ Nura,

    It sounds like you had a touch of what we get from time to time! I have my husband with me all the time and you would think I’m immune to it — but I’m not!

    It’s almost comic how the best laid plans go amok! Remember all those things you thought you were going to have time to do? The same thing happens to me, nothing gets done.

    Even now, I look forward to when Hubs goes to the office. Oh I think about all the time I’ll have to get things done! Yeah, right! What do I get done? SQUAT! happy It just happens. Nowadays, I make a “to-do” list and what gets done gets done, and what doesn’t goes on for the next day. My house looks like it was hit with an atom bomb! Lucikly, my husband only cares that he has clean socks, underwear and food to eat. I’ve been too occupied to even have the day worker come in when Hubs is out.

    Today I had some testing done and I am cramping very badly (expected) and I’m in bed for the rest of the day. So, guess what? Squat is getting done today too! I think Hubs is going to have to do the cooking today.

    With regard to the jealousy issue, guess what? That hits me too and you would think I shouldn’t have that. Well, it hits me just as much as it does everyone else. I don’t know what to tell you how to control it.

    What works for me is I think back a couple of months ago how my husband stood by my side and stuck up for me. One thing I know about him is that his devotion to me is unquestionable. I never had any person in my life like that, so it means so much to me. I think of that everyday. The other thing is I quit thinking about polygamy period. I was chasing myself around in circle. It is what it is and that is it. I quit trying to understand and figure out. Maybe if Ms.P played a role in his life it would be different for me, but this is the gift from Allah that allows me to handle it emotionally.

    When do you go to the doctor again? I’m sitting on pins and needles for you! happy

  • khadijah Z

    June 3, 2011

    Asalaam Alaykum Okhti’s missing you all so much

    well im back left this job im sick as a dog infections in my sinus, lungs and throat dr say maybe from all the cleaning i had to do daily from the rat in the kit, cat urine in the yard, or cold baths, or over work or all of the above

    woman took well advantage of me had the nerve to ask for my lic as a teacher even she was told by me several times i was not a teacher… so to say she would not be paying me as she promised…
    had the nerve to tell me not to laugh with the kids cos my laugh was considered in Islam as that of a whore sad

    and despite i had been ill for more then 4days only getting worse every day legs hurting so bad i could hardly walk, she ignored me telling her this so i could go home

    finally i demanded to go or id have some one come to get me she thought to give me 100le which is only about $20.00US tho could be equal to 100 by Egyptians standards so she got 2 weeks of cleaning, teaching, talking down to the American she thought she got for free or stupid…. waiting her call now to tell me what time ill be picked up tomorrow morning so that i can politely tell her in my lack of voice ill not be returning … sherif was so angry to know how this woman treated me and how she kept me with no bed only a foam mattress on the floor, rat, roaches and large brown and yellow ants in the house biting me and not even hot water that i got sick and she ignored me……. Alhumduillah for all

    but her ass is still bigger then mine winking

  • ana

    June 3, 2011

    Yep, Nura, I do pretty good about not touching his phone. Unless he goes to work and forgets it, leaving it at home. Otherwise, he has them laying around and I see them and don’t. Sometimes I think I can do better all the way around, as well – better with my sarcasm, name calling (of C) and have a better husband (from an Islamic perspective). He’s a good provider, kind, and patient (although he’s losing it a bit now. I don’t know if it’s the stress of polygamy or living amongst the dead (C and her family). The other week he was on the phone with his mom and I interjected something in the background. He told me to “shut the f$#K up!” He’s never spoken to me like that before, ever. He hurt my feelings really badly; tear rolled down my face. His mom yelled at him about it too. He apologized immediately. I said “F” U and gave him the finger. I know that didn’t help matters. He even wrote me a sweet apologetic note and left it on my laptop the next a.m., which was nice; although we had already made up.

    Nura, you are doing really good. You have made a total life change, as you’ve indicated above. Allah must be well pleased with you and the sacrifices that you have made for Him (Allah). I don’t want to flatter you all the time, as flattery is not good, but it’s true – you are an inspiration. You are a good person with a good heart, based on what I know of you from your writings.

    I understand your loneliness. You love your husband and probably love him more and more each day the more time you spend together and get to know him better. The emotional bond is getting stronger, and with it comes additional problems that are to be expected. Base emotions begin to surface, as it does with all of us from time to time. You are handling it really well. It was smart of you to write the note to your husband oppose to doing a freak on him. Sometimes I write, but many times I let feelings fester inside until they come out as an explosion. Your husband probably is feeling a bit strained at this point as he’ll need to decide whether to acquiesce to you or not. By giving you the day, he’s taking from her and that’s a problem in itself too. How can he please two people at one time with this? You’ve heard the saying, “When one co-wife is happy, the other is sad.”

    Try not to feel like a home wrecker. You are not! Polygamy is allowed and she consented; although consent wasn’t necessary – only mutual consultation was. It truly sounds like she is a “Believer” with a very good heart. She wants for her sister what she wants for herself. She’s probably going through a thing too, but is handling it well, with the permission of Allah. It appears Allah has blessed you, your co-wife and your husband. It’s truly wonderful indeed happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Nura

    June 3, 2011

    Dear Ana,
    Yeah, you restrained yourself from touching the phones! Congratulations on thathappy While I think it was ornery to go into it about the phones-to the level of contention-I do think you have a good point about Alex-and Carolinah, unfortunately is learning everything she doesn’t know about Islam from him.

    I also think that you could do better, all around, but that is just me.

    I have to say I am not without my jealous moments(on another subject, now). I deal with my co-wife beautifully and she is always good to me, so I have no gripes. We agreed before I married him to the way we would split the time when she was visiting (when we both live in same city, it is even stevens). The way it works is that I get every other Friday (from after jummah). She always gets thursdays, which is the day I wanted because he only works half days, and then Fri is the only day he sleeps in. He works 6 days a week! Anyway, last night I just got a huge fit of jealousy about it. Not out loud. I have had this feeling before, and it is usually on the long stretch of days I have on the “other” weeks when I have a 3 day stretch before I get him two days in a row(which is this week). Too much time alone, I hate the 3 day stretch, would much rather have 2-2day stretches. So, instead of getting whiney(ahem, I know who I am, ok???) I wrote a very nice email asking if he would consider changing that week so I got the thursday instead of the saturday-then I wouldn’t have the 3 night stretch which kills me. He hasn’t even seen his email yet, and I will probably see him before he does but I am glad I wrote it out, and presented a logical argument about it, without being argumentative at all. I left the whole thing to his discretion (and I do understand that his kids get no Friday mornings at all half the time. I don’t know. I think he would be quite fair in one way to say no, but that 3 day stretch is hard hard hard. I get very lonely.

    Khadijah has this worse than I do. I live in a city that is very foreign, but almost everyone here speaks English, no one would ever expect me to do menial labor and I see my husband more than almost anyone but Jenny, usually. That is part of the problem. I have him all the time, and then I have to go cold turkey! Never having had to get over any kind of addiction before, I find that my dependence on having him(or someone) to talk to is pretty strong. I have one good friend in town that I can talk to deeply and a few others that are good for lunch or coffee kind of chats. The thing is, most Muslims here are Arabic, there are westerners, but we are sort of rare(get together on Thurs nights sometimes, but most are juggling husbands like I am). Anyway, my non Muslim acquintences mostly think I am horrible for divorcing and remarrying and if not that, then letting the kids go home-I am a truly evil and selfish woman to them. I half agree, but that is a different issue in my life. So, anyway, to most Arabic/muslim women, I am a project, dawah, to talk about religion with all the time(love bombing after the fact). Or, they(western or arabic) are 25 year old virgins-which means I have to be mature, give wise counsel, yada yada yada. Anyway, I love these gals, and we are friends, but the Arabic ones don’t speak English well enough to be that close and my arabic is pathetic. I don’t want to discuss my “issues” with non Muslims-then everything becomes about my religion or my husband being Arab/Egyptian. It suddenly becomes “Let’s see where THIS fits in with my stereotypes of Muslim Arabic men”. Aaarggh. Do you KNOW what it was like when I had that fall on the stairs? I totally looked like a brutally abused wife and there was some chitchat. Not cool.

    Anyway, I am having some issues with being able to open up. I am not encouraging polygamy for anyone generally. I have the best husband, but it is isolating. I have the best co-wife, but I still feel like a homewrecker(she has never breathed a word to indicate she feels the same, btw). I have the best God, Allah, but sometimes feel that this is too big a challenge-and all I have to deal with is mild (lets be real, he’s not leaving me alone in the desert for months on end!)loneliness. How some of you deal with it is beyond my understanding. You all, and everyone I read about online, are why I discourage it-or don’t encourage it, but give out all kinds of cautions-because it isn’t wrong, when done properly, but I have the best of situations, and it is difficult for me. Most men want to do it secretly. How the heck is that going to work for a lifetime? How about when he is dead and his wife is sideblinded by another woman and children? The dead guy got away with it and the wives have to pay. Stinky.

  • ana

    June 2, 2011

    Mrs.#2, As Salaamu Alaikum,

    It will certainly be interesting to see what happens with the two of them. Based on their history as you’ve described it, it doesn’t seem either are going anyplace. If they do, it probably wouldn’t be long before they get back together. Allah knows best.

    It’s timely that you stated, “I WISH u all could hear her vmails..demeaning..degrading yet she tries to chatise him abt his Islam.”

    The other morning, I became extremely annoyed with Alex and we parted, not on a good note. He left for work Wednesday morning and I’m not to see him again until Sunday late afternoon. He gave me the schedule (marriage on a schedule) the night before, which probably added to my agitation. What happened is he was sleeping and his two phones (his work Blackberry and his personal cell phone) were in the dining room. I was in our Masallah (prayer room). I had offered Fajr prayer and was reading Quran. While reading Quran, the alarms on his two phones began sounding off, loudly in different tones. I don’t like touching his phone. On a few occasions, I have silenced the alarms, have taken the phones into the bedroom to him so he could turn the alarms off or have awoken him to turn them off. We’ve had words on a number of occasions about those phones sounding off in the dining room while he was sleeping in the bedroom and I was trying to offer salat and read Quran in the Masallah.

    This time I just continued to read Quran for about 20 mins to 1/2 hour, trying to block out the alarms. I eventually stopped reading, busted into the bedroom and yelled, “I’ve been trying to read the Quran for the last 1/2 hour and those alarm keeps going off on those phones”. I totally startled him. I asked if he was trying to wake the angles for prayer. Why does he have to have the cell phones in the dining room with the alarms going off and he’s in the bedroom, I asked. He became annoyed, got up turned off the alarms and stayed up. He asked, “why couldn’t you just bring me the phone and get barakats?” “Why can’t you wake me for prayer?” (Who the heck wakes him up for prayer when he’s down at those non-Muslims home who he left me to be with?) Meanwhile, I went back to bed and his alarm in the bedroom began sounding. We had words about it until he went to work. I asked if he had the phone alarms going off at C’s house to wake up the non-Muslims? I ended up calling her a few choice names and he said, “Oh, and you call yourself a Believer.”

    See the problem is he has no idea what a Believer is and C certainly has no clue. It has more to do with what we believe oppose to what we do. We as human being are always going to err, make mistakes, sin, and do things that are wrong until our last day on this earth. It’s our personal Jihad (battle). I told him that he sound just like her. He believes being a Believer means one is totally free of sin and if one is not, don’t tell him anything about Islam. It reminds me of the stories in the Quran in which people say until you can build a ladder leading up to the sky or until an angel comes down from heaven we won’t believe you etc. It’s as though some say, until you are “perfect”, don’t tell me anything. He just doesn’t get it. I think we all need to know what a Believer is and understand that it is not all about what we do – our acts.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Mrs.#2

    June 1, 2011

    Sooo much going on..on my phone typing. Hes supposedly moving out and shes using the whole getting a divorce trying to shock him into changing. wow..and WOW! yet again…he claims its done and shes saying he wont change. Bottom line they both have been sittin around waitin for one another to morph into a person they arent and have never been. I WISH u all could hear her vmails..demeaning..degrading yet she tries to chatise him abt his Islam. And NO hes not perfect and half of this madness is HIS…but will see if the big split happens..the poop will surely start flying if thts the case…

  • ana

    May 31, 2011

    To all who have emailed me in the past few weeks, I apologize for not responding sad I haven’t checked my mail in weeks. Sometimes things just become so overwhelming and I take a break where ever and however I can. If it pleases Allah, I will try to check the mail more regularly, if not daily. My sincere apologies. I didn’t ignore anyone’s mail intentionally.

    I hope everyone is well. Chat with you all soon. It seems we’re all a bit talked out for the moment worried

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    May 31, 2011

    We really need to be on our jobs winking

    Lyrics to “The Cleanup Woman”:

    BETTY WRIGHT
    “Clean Up Woman”

    A clean up woman
    Is a woman who
    Gets all the love we girls leave behind
    The reason I know
    So much about her
    Is because she picked up a man of mine

    Chumpin’ Slick
    Was my ruin
    ‘Cause I found out all I was doin’
    Was makin’ it easy
    For the clean up woman
    To get my man’s love, oh, yeah

    Just makin’ it easy
    For the clean up woman
    To get my baby’s love, uh-huh

    Mmm-hmm

    I took this man’s love and put it on a shelf
    And like a fool, I thought I had him all to myself
    When he needed love, I was out havin’ fun
    But I found out all I had done
    Was made it easy
    For the clean up woman
    To get my man’s love, uh-huh
    Yeah, that’s what I did
    I made it easy
    For the clean up woman
    To steal my baby’s love, oh, yeah

    The clean up woman
    Will wipe his blues away
    She’ll give him penny lovin’
    24 hours a day
    The clean up woman
    She’ll sweep him off his feet
    She’s the one to take him in
    When you dump him in the street
    So take a tip
    You better get hip
    To the clean up woman
    ‘Cause she’s tough
    I mean she really cleans up

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    May 31, 2011

    I thought you all might find this to be an interesting article:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2011/05/30/2011-05-30_egyptian_businessman_mahmoud_abdelsalam_omar_busted_in_sex_assault_of_hotel_maid.html

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • khadijah Z

    May 27, 2011

    no im not kidding this is as she said sad

    She also told me i needed to get better clothes they looked cheap worried ……

    her sister who is a friend with one of my friends here after all the boasting i was her American friend and was going to teach her correct English showed up there few days ago and when i called her sister by her name made sure to put me in my place … despite i spend all day saying yes mam … to tell me in front of another friend of theirs “ITS MISS RANIA OR MADAM RANIA TO YOU” my response was yeah i no she is the boss and walked away sad

    using it to learn so i can start my own after i gather a few friends together and see what we can do in this to make it a good go

  • ana

    May 26, 2011

    Oh, Okhti K (Khadijah Z)sad I just don’t know what to say. Sounds like a job from hell. You had me laughing so loud; laughing I felt like an idiot. I had cover to my mouth to compose myself. Good thing Alex isn’t here. Wow, it sounded like something straight out of a movie, a straight up comedy. I just can’t even imagine experiencing what you described surprise, but I guess I can.

    You’re better than me, Okhti. I could see myself heading for the highway, midway through the day. I remember my first job as a 16 year old, working at one of those fast food joints. (I wish I could tell you where C works, but I won’t.) I thought I was hired to work the register. At the end of the night I was told to sweep the floor and learned I’d be cooking the food and washing the dishes. I’d be doing it all and for minimum wage. It was my ONE and ONLY night there. I QUIT. I called the next day and said that was it for me.

    It has to get better, Okhti. Hang in there until something better comes along. Like you said, perhaps Allah will bless you with something of your own that you could work from your home in an orderly and professional manner. See this as just a test. You can pass it. Whatever doesn’t kill us makes us stronger happy

    Who’s fatter laughing You’re kidding, right?

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • khadijah Z

    May 26, 2011

    Asalaam Alaykum Okhti’s i pray your all doing well

    Well job is not all it was made out to be in a short hired as a teacher, working as teacher , baby sitter potty person, cook, house keeper, gardener, janitor and no dsl not tv no radio no hot water, not even a frigging shower not even a bed just a kids small bed mattress and have to put my legs on my suitcase to keep off the floor yes it is on the floor and all the extra cleaning this woman seems to think she is royalty from Dubai well the fuse is getting very short along to running up and down stairs about 20+ times a day with children ages 3 to 8 not even potty trained, mentally slow off in there own world wail she yells make them color in the lines so it looks better to the parents…. bunch of morons crying
    mentally slow wail her highness makes remarks like kahdijah who is fatter you or me……. i am… wow i finally found some on fatter then me… even she is twice my size crying with her glittery abaya’s showi9ng every friggin dam fat dunk and dent in her royal ass ….try to be nice to some one and this is what you get… wail she siting on her royals ass 24/7 and the maid raising her 4 kids laughing should i cry now?? Hell even the kids give orders to the maid she looks so frigging tired… how for a 6yr who cant clean the shit from her won behind telling the amid to come and do it sad or a 4yr demanding the maid spoon feed him like he is a toddler sad

    no im going to wait it out at least till end of summer to get the experience … if ti dont kill me 1st .. laughing and then check the schools around me and see if i can get in them if not ill start my own tutor service from home InshaAllah… told her to day no way in hell im getting down on my knees to clean up the mess off her fake outdoor green grass carpet to clean up after the work men

    do i sound like a disgruntle employee …. laughing hell yeah!!!

  • Nura

    May 25, 2011

    Young khadijah,

    The sparks and romance can happen in a second marriage,with a second wife. And they can remain in the first. I think it depends on the man-as I was in a monogamous relationship before and there was no romance to speak of(among other things). Sparks? ppppffft.

    My husband of five months has a good relationship, warm and loving, with both of his wives. Sparks. Romance. He is a sweetheart and has enough sweet for the both of us. But not all men can do that any more than they can do any of the other things required of a man with more than one wife (or even one wife, in many cases!)

  • khadija

    May 24, 2011

    Oh okay. I guess that is why some are born rich and others are born poor. I sometimes wonder if some races or groups of people are meant to be poor while others are meant to be rich. I once read somewhere that arabs believes that blacks were made to make their life easier. So that is why I was interested in the quote.

  • Jenny

    May 24, 2011

    Nura,

    I am hanging on pins and needles to hear what happened at the doctor!!

    Ana,

    Happy Anniversary! Have a great evening!

  • ana

    May 24, 2011

    So, I guess it makes some people inferior to others, if Allah raises some above others in ranks, so that some may command work from others.

    Still, the most honorable is the most righteous.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    May 24, 2011

    Quran – Surah 43 Al Zukhruf, Iyat 32

    “Is it they who would portion out the Mercy of thy Lord? It is We Who portion out between them their livelihood in the life of this world: And We raise some of them above others in ranks, so that some may command work from others. But the Mercy of thy Lord is better than the (wealth) which they amass.”

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    May 24, 2011

    Khadija, Insha Allah, I will find the Iyat from the Quran that states it. I just can’t do it right now. Today is Alex and my nineth anniversary and he’s on his way from work to take me to dinner and the movies happy Yes, I’m a happy camper right now. Thank you all in advance for your well wishing hee hee

    Oh, by the way, it’s not saying they are inferior as human beings, but everyone just have different jobs. Any work that’s lawful is honorable even servants and maid; although many don’t see it that way. I’m trying to. I think Mohummad Yaaseen referred to people working for others as being modern day slavery. I think he said it , if I’m not mistaken. I think it’s a good analogy. Anyone that does a job and gets paid by another works for someone. Everyone has a job to do, even Satan.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • khadija

    May 24, 2011

    @ ana:

    What verse in the quran says that some people were meant to work for others? Isn’t that implying that some people are inferior to others if they were made to do work for those people? I thought we were only servants to Allah and it was poverty that made certain people take certain jobs.

  • khadija

    May 24, 2011

    @ lynn:

    You are right. Whatever happens is predestined and there is nothing you could have done to stop your husband marrying your maid. As a muslim woman, polygamy is always a possibility no matter what you may try to do.

    It is always helpful to have a maid and if one can afford house help they should hire them. It is not to have to worry about a lot of housework.

  • Mohummud Yaaseen

    May 24, 2011

    Anyway, based on what I’ve read here about women sometimes wanting other men aside from their husband, I decided to ask my wife about that. Now my wife is extremely honest, if she ever desired another man she would tell me as I am also not all that jealous. Her opinion is that any woman who desires other than her husband is very sick. She only ever wanted to be married to be, and never ever wanted any other man ever in her whole life.

    Now, I asked her what about men who desire other women? She explained how that is completely different. I obviously agree with her.

  • Lynn

    May 24, 2011

    I told hubby recently it hurt twice as much as he married the maid as if I’m lacking of something. He apologized. What has been done cannot be undone – we have to make best the current situation.

  • ana

    May 24, 2011

    I’ve been considering a “maid” (I call them housekeepers) for a quite a few years now. I’ve discussed it with Alex, his mom and mine. If it makes me lazy, so be it happy I’m lazy. Wealthy people have always had “maid”, servants, gardeners, landscapers and more forever. They can AFFORD to be lazy. Allah has made some people to work for others. He says so in Quran, so there’s nothing wrong with having someone work for you. As long as they do their jobs and you pay them, you’re good to go. If I can afford a life a luxury and people want to call me lazy, I’m one lazy, happy so and so.

    Some people may want to say your husband strayed because you gave your duties and responsibilities away. Some may want to say my husband strayed because I didn’t give him enough sex and attention. Bottom line is they strayed because it was Allah’s decision. As long as we know the TRUTH and BELIEVE, Allah will protect, guide and help us and see us through our difficulty into a life of comfort and ease. I feel and see life getting better for me every day. Whatever any of us do wrong, we will account for it, individually.

    Lynn, Allah protected you from seeing any intimacy between them, if it existed and protected them too. The reason the stoning stuff, which isn’t in Quran, doesn’t cut it is four witnesses are needed and when will four people witness someone having sex? One would need to confess to adultery. So, it leads one to conclude we must leave the persons alone and let Allah deal with them. But, people want to make up their own rules.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Lynn

    May 24, 2011

    I’m still here Ana – no worries. Yes this topic hit me hard and opened up my raw wound. I don’t agree on certain stuff that was discussed here and maids are definitely not for lazy people only. We are all different. We live in different part of the world, different lifestyle and it’s very common in my country to have employ a maid. I don’t wish to argue as I have accepted whatever happened was decreed by Allah – there is nothing we can do to stop. I had maids for 16 years and ms. P was no. 3 out of 6. My hubby would not fall for her if Allah did not decreed so. I am thankful I didn’t get to see any intimacy between them.

  • ana

    May 24, 2011

    @Nura, thank you for sharing your thoughts about the belly dancers etc. happy

    I’ve seen some sisters here with short sleeve tops on, tight jeans and hijab (headscarf). I think those girls usually are new reverts to Islam, and don’t have the means to buy new clothing, or are transitioning from one way of dressing (non-Muslim) to another (Muslim). There are some sisters that will identify the new reverts and help them by taking them to shop for new clothes or show them how to dress. Think of the barakats (blessings) one may receive for doing so to seek the pleasure of Allah.

    @Lynn, R U there. I know this post about maids may have been a bit tough for you. I hope you’re not taking it personally and r OK. I miss you! Don’t worry; be happy happy

    Here’s a link to a nice, simple article about wearing the “Hijab.” I thought it appropriate since we’ve been discussing it a lot here and the article is interesting. http://www.technicianonline.com/features/students-unveil-the-meaning-of-the-muslim-hijab-1.2521621

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • muslimah+4

    May 23, 2011

    @ Nura congrats are in order inshallah!

  • Nura

    May 23, 2011

    I have never met up with religious police. Rumors abound, but really, they don’t even stop people from smoking at the cafe’s in the mall and that seems to be the most heinous kind of personal scofflawing that I have observed. Women do wear strapless and sleeveless dresses here and I haven’t seen any reprimands-however, we are frequently reminded that there are dress codes here. Most 99% seem to make a good faith effort to follow them (they aren’t like KSA or anything).

    Egypt has probably a wider variety of religious observance in evidence than Qatar. Here we have Niqab Abayas, regular hijabis (like myself), and everybody else.There are Muslims that don’t wear hijab, but we don’t know who they are till we meet them in a class or at mosque and figure out that they are the gal with the great hair happy In Egypt, I saw a girl wearing a short sleeved pink playboy tshirt with a headcovering. I didn’t quite get that, but she was quite young, so. . .

    Here, many qataris that aren’t niqabi, show hair with their abayas, wear elaborate makeup and perfume. In adult women, I don’t get it-why bother with the abaya at all? There is different levels of actual religious observance, once you get past the sea of black abayashappy No one is slapping anyone about it.

  • Nura

    May 23, 2011

    Ana-I have no full explanation about bellydancing, other than it is only done here (to my knowledge) at weddings that are separate. The function of belly dancing, to my understanding, is for future MIL’s to check out the nubile young women for their husband (child bearing hips, healthy, all that). Now, I don’t know that that is the case, that is what I hear.

    I understand that there are dancers and singers often at Egyptian weddings, but not everyone is keen on that type of thing-even if they have mixed wedding celebrations. My husband doesn’t approve of such mixing, particularly when borders are breached.

    I think what with one thing and another, this is where the lines of culture and religion are often blurred in people’s minds and everyday lives.

  • ana

    May 23, 2011

    Mohummad Yaseen, seems many of us are a mixture of something happy

    It’s always good to have your own business, if you can, so not to be a slave to anyone else. I pray that Allah grants you much success with yours. I began the initial process needed to begin my own business, but haven’t taken it any further, as the business would entail me being involved 24/7. I’ve gotten used to my comfy life at home. To go back and do real work again, doesn’t sit well with me right now.

    Insha Allah, my wakeel, his wife and I will eventually do something that is charitable, that won’t take all our time, that will help Muslims. I made a previous post about whether I should go into business with Alex. I have now decided, if it pleases Allah, to allow him to operate my business (that I referred to above) when he retires in several years. He’ll be able to retire early. I’m no longer going to sweat over whether she, C, will benefit some from it. So, what if she gets a little benefit. He has to give me whatever he gives her. So, I’m still coming out ahead anyway we look at it. Insha Allah, he’ll begin preparing to run it very soon. I already have my licenses and bonding for the businesses. I just have to keep renewing them all so I won’t have to go through the rigorous application process all over again. It will be a lucrative business, Insha Allah. If we do the right thing – worship, obey and serve Allah, He said there is hope for us for a commerce that will never fail. Allah U Akbar!

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    May 23, 2011

    Nura or anyone else with a clue,

    I was wondering if anyone in Qatar or from a neighboring or Middle Eastern country ever explained to you how belly dancing is allowed when Islam encourages modesty and chasity? Some countries have the “Religious Police” that arrest people for various offenses, such as not being covered (dressed) appropriately, but belly dancing is copaseticworried What’s up with that??? Just thought it may have come up in a discussion you’ve had.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • cindy

    May 23, 2011

    Mashallah nura, May Allah bless you with a healthy child…..Subhanallah!!

  • Nura

    May 23, 2011

    Salaam alaykum, Yaaseen,

    My poor husband has work, school and two wives pressuring him now. His other wife has been trying to get preg. again also. She has PCOS though and that she had her first two boys with no medical intervention was a miracle-so we are just praying for some more miracles. I need to have this confirmed by Dr. tomorrow-we will see! I am trying not to get my hopes up, but I know when I think I conceived and I’ve been right before tests could tell me so about this before. If I was home I would know for sure by now. I would have had breakfast at one of two diners-both of whom make eggs. Diner eggs have a distinct ‘corny’ taste when I am pregnant (I knew with my 3rd 3 days after I conceived and it was cheaper than EPT-unfortunately this makes for a VERY long pregnancy-especially when the baby is two weeks overdue!)

  • Mohummud Yaaseen

    May 23, 2011

    Nura

    Congratulations. I’m sure hubby must feel under lots of pressure now!. I always feel under pressure before a new baby comes into the world. Also, our economy is divided by race, and unfortunately I’m neither white nor black . If you want to be in big business it’s good to be white, and if you want to be in with the government it is good to be black. We are from very mixed ancestory. We are half dutch, half german, a bit of Arab, and a bit of Indonesian.We all have light colored (green) eyes, which is rare for a brown person, but still we are brown skinned and in S.A that’s a drawback. All the policies are still based on race. That’s why I was forced to open my own business. I couldn’t get a decent job as a so called “colored”!

  • Mohummud Yaaseen

    May 23, 2011

    Don’t get me wrong, I’d like more wives but I don’t want to feel pressured into it simply b/c I am attracted to the woman. I want to make a thinking well informed decision where my judgment would be unclouded.

  • Mohummud Yaaseen

    May 23, 2011

    I wouldn’t keep a maid I was attracted too. I’d just get rid of her. I wouldn’t want to put myself in a situation like that. And also, if the husband is always at home with the maid, their is a chance of zina. I know my limits, if I feel inclined towards a woman, I don’t cross paths with her again.

  • Nura

    May 22, 2011

    A face flop into marble. . .not fun, but probably a little funny. My friend told me it was described thusly: “she didn’t trip, the just took a big step into . . .nothing.”

    I’m going to bed now. I’m sleeping for two (maybelaughing

    salaam alaykum sisters! Hey, my husband once told me if I got pregnant, I should hire a maid –NO FLIPPING WAY, H! He can clean the toilet if it comes down to it. Always been an option but before I would be embarrassed to take him up on (place is tiny). Now I am just paranoid, thanks, ladieshappy

  • ana

    May 22, 2011

    @ Nura,

    Fantastic!!! The way to go. Hooray. ALLAH U AKBAR! With you and Okhti K (Khadijah Z) with all this good news, there must be some good stuff coming down the pipe for all of us. Keep the faith, Nura. Let us know when you confirm. Yes, you better stay away from those cartwheels; you know how you do with falling on your face hee hee Ooops, I’m sorry. I should not have laughed happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Nura

    May 22, 2011

    I just called him (her night) and he seemed a bit underwhelmed. He is having a crazy week at work( Hasn’t gotten a day off in two weeks). Plus he is having to prove to two wives that he can ‘take care of’ us both, so I am sure he has all kinds of vitamin and mineral depletionshappy He wants me to go to doctor first thing in the morning. Not sure I can get an appointment.

    I don’t knit or crochet. I made a quilt for one of my kids, the other ones were well intendedhappy He was just saying he wished our perfect little flat had an extra room for when his kids or our kids friends visited (I added that I wished we had a nicely padded and cushioned room for themhappy )This is a perfect gem of a one bedroom-has a great kitchen and bath. Good thing we just have a one year lease.

    It’s kind of funny, I was just talking to him about how “old” I am compared to them yesterday. Chalk one up for the old ladyhappy Maybe. We will see. (kinda scared to hope this is true). He is so sweet, says he doesn’t think of me as being older, and I don’t either-usually. My co-wife is really pretty, beautiful, really- 10 years younger(his age) and insecurity hits me between the eyes sometimes. She is really smart, also, and so darn nice. I wish I could dish some drama on her, just to make my story interesting. If I am pregnant, I might actually see some. I have a feeling she is exactly what she seems though-as nice as can be.

  • Jenny

    May 22, 2011

    @ Nura,

    Wow! Our club is starting to have a lot of members, huh? I am soooooo happy for you!!! happy How did you tell hubby? I guess now you will be knitting and crocheting in addition to all your other things on the list!

    I wonder who will be next in our club? happy

  • Nura

    May 22, 2011

    Okhti,I may have good news and I may just be getting excited for nothing.

    Remember the other day when I said I felt like I had conceived? I took a pregnancy test today and it is positive. How crazy is that? I am not going to start doing cartwheels (like i COULD), but I needed to tell someone besides hubby who I probably got all excited for nothing, too. I feel fatalistic about the results, even though I believed I conceived two weeks ago.

    I will risk some joy though and say alhamdulileh! And if I am not preg,then I will get my tummy tuck and enjoy a flat stomach even when standing uphappy

    Yikes.

  • Nura

    May 22, 2011

    All that being said, I am NOT hiring a maid to live in!

  • Nura

    May 22, 2011

    Dear Ana, Living here in the midst of people with both so much wealth and coming from such dire poverty is quite an experience. Getting to know people as friends who have seen both sides and who will speak frankly is amazing. Talking to ‘servants’, waitresses, clerks-wow. These women are so vulnerable and oft times, so desperate. Some are definitely after the main chance, some are really just trying to make a life for themselves that is very decent, honest and good. My friends maid was from Somalia. You have no idea the kind of life that she escaped from (single woman working in the home of a single woman, she wasn’t looking for a rich man to rescue her-a very devout orthodox christian). One woman I know had 3 kids alone with a grandparent checking in on them in the Philippines after her husband abandoned them- she could feed them and leave them there, or be there for them and they would not go to school or eat. She works full time+ (15 hour days)at a daycare and every bit of time off she is working as a part time maid.

    The ones who get to the states as illegals do it because living in the US illegally is enormously less of a risk than the lives they leave behind. And that is just a sad fact. Better if one is legal and married and integrated into a community and a life. I won’t even go into the lives of the people from India-they are in a lower strata here than the Filipinos usually being the laborer class(street sweepers, road builders, carpenters, etc.),while the Filipinos are usually waiters/clerks/maids/drivers). The poor Indians really don’t have a chance, but there are few female Indians, most of the expat population is Indian males. No women for them (whole other issue of pathetic!)They might be drivers and sometimes are educated, but my sons driver WAS educated, he had a degree in Education/History and he was driving livery and was not making enough money to bring his wife to live with him. Most don’t have spousalprivileges and if they are LUCKY and their sponsor doesn’t screw them over, every two years they get to visit their wives/husbands/children for a few weeks. Woo woo.

  • ana

    May 22, 2011

    @ Nura, It’s so good you have expounded on the subject of the Filipino maids and what life is like for many of them (and maids of other nationalities, as well). I’m getting a clearer picture and better understanding. I’m beginning to feel some compassion for them and I’m far from being a compassionate person, as some have pointed out on the blog bring it on

    What I’ve learned has caused me consider Carolinah a little bit, too, as she was in dire need of help when she and Alex resumed communicating with each other. Her living conditions were very bad. She was working exorbitant hours, trying to make ends meet etc. She would have been foolish to decline Alex’s marriage proposal,especially since she had already been in a relationship with him and already knew much about him.

    I’m so glad you’ve taken the time to explain more about these people, so we could understand them better. You’re a wealth of information, Nura happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    May 22, 2011

    As Salaamu Alaikum and Peace to All!

    Okhti K (Khadijah Z) what good news about your new job dancing Allah U Akbar! I am so happy for you. Just when things were looking so not good, Allah SWT sent you relief. After hardship there is ease. Now, you’ll be around more people and you won’t be so much alone. You’ll continue to help others. How good does that feel? I will make duah for you.

    It’s good to know you will have your dsl with you, and will be able to continue to chat with us. Life on the blog would not be the same without you here. I love you, Okhti!!!

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Nura

    May 22, 2011

    Khadijah, as Jenny and Ana and you have all said, we need to watch out for fitnah in our homes. It isn’t that I don’t trust a specific man or woman or occupational choice-but having two people of the opposite sex alone together is not right for a REASON. I get that.

    My point about the maids/filipinas is that “snagging” a man is not their be all and end all, any more than it is anyone elses-but two men present themselves and all other things being equal, they are going to choose the American or westerner or even Japanese.

    I don’t think anyone who has never seen what these women (and men, too, but this is about the women) put up with just to support their families (just in their everyday work and living situation) could ever think them mercenary for marrying a man that will take care of them and offer them and their children basic security and a decent life. I maintain that it has been a part of human culture since the beginning to do so and it will remain so until the end of the world. When a person is hungry or works 7 days a week for survival (and here, they are offered room and board in some jobs-but the only food they get if they work at mcdonalds is mcdonalds food. Or KFC. BLD.), marrying for romance is just ridiculous-and staying single and keeping some principle of independence or something is stupid, when you know that you will likely never have the means or opportunity to marry otherwise. And yes, that is also the case for many. So they marry a kind American who has a decent job at a midwestern factory or who is retired and offers security for caring for an older husband. I think if two people who need each other want marry, there is nothing wrong with it.

    And I do think it is a mistake to have a maid who is ever alone with husband or sons beyond the age of 10. It is WRONG for one thing and it confuses a lot of other issue (and can result in sin) for another.

    Just would point out though that Arnolds baby mama maid was not live in AND she was married at the time. So, just a reminder-we don’t want our husbands or sons exposed to any woman inappropriately-they are not safe simply because they are married. Sure, our husbands are not likely to marry that one-but I’d rather he had a halal marriage to a (former)maid than that he committed adultery with one!

  • khadijah Z

    May 21, 2011

    Asalaam Alaykum Okhti’s i pray your all well missing you much

    pray for me i got a job in Nasir city as a teacher in a new day care it is in a villa so ill be staying there during the week and back home thru evening but back on Saturday morning as i have only friday off

    dsl will be put on there this week inshaAllah so ill be on line there once it is on
    pray for me plz
    reg Egyptians getting only 400 a mo to start ill get 1000+ over time since ill be staying there + private lessons to the owners 4 children Allah help me in this sherif is in KSA so when he is back home he will be taking me or ill stay there on the other wives days

    @ Ana very good story okhti ill remember not to ask for a maid no punt intended at okhti Lynn pls

    I love and miss you all talk soon jenny and all the new mommies plz be careful summer is coming the heat is a cumming even my daughter is also preg and it is a girl….

  • ana

    May 21, 2011

    Thaa da girl, Khadija! happy We just need to remind one another. So, wake me up when I fall asleep – OK?. I need reminding too!!!

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • khadija

    May 21, 2011

    @ Ana: Okay, no need to explain about your heritage. I was just curious.

    Yes, I know we can’t control our fate. However, I will pray I can have stronger faith in Allah and to make me stromg in whatever tests he may have for me, including polygamy, if he were to test me with it.

  • ana

    May 21, 2011

    Khadija, As Salaamu Alaikum! I didn’t blow you off about the ethnicity question. I think it’s best not to elaborate on what ethnicity I am. I’m a mixture, which is all I think I should say right now happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    May 21, 2011

    Khadija, you’re so funny. You make me laugh in a good way. Guess what Khadija, if Allah wants the maid or anyone else to marry your husband, she will. There’s not that much safe guarding your husband in the world. There are Muslim women out there that won’t let a Muslim sister that is single come anywhere near her husband out of fear the husband may want to marry her.

    It is good not to put our husbands in harms way. We shouldn’t tempt him with a woman in our home. We don’t want him to sin and commit adultery. But polygamy is permissible. So, if he finds himself in a position to marry another, what can we do? We can’t be with our husbands 24/7.

    If it has been decided for our husbands to marry another, we can’t prevent it. We could stress ourselves out all we want trying to prevent it from happening, but we can’t prevent our fate, nor the fate of anyone else. It’s not an easy concept to grasp.

    I didn’t want Carolinah to marry my husband, to sex him up, to get his money and his time. Did she do anything wrong by marrying him? Allah says polygamy is permissible and He apparently decreed she and Alex marry. If I’m a BELIEVER, I have to go with it. I’m beginning to get with it and accept it. It takes time. It took a whole lot of time for me. We’re all running out of time!

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • khadija

    May 21, 2011

    @ Jenny:

    You basically took the words right out of my mouth.

    And to Nura:

    Yes, I know every girl wants a comfortable and secure life, but that does not mean it is okay for them to marry my husband so they can gain that. I still feel as a woman, I need to be careful what kind of woman I will let into my home. I just would hate to share my husband. Maybe you are an exception, but I don’t believe that most maids or nannies would not take the opportunity to marry their employer. That is why I would not trust one around my husband ALONE.

  • Jenny

    May 21, 2011

    @ Nura,

    I was raised in the South (all my family is still there). As far as I’m concerned, fried chicken and potato salad contains all the food groups! happy Of course, have to have the mint julip with it too to wash it all down. winking

  • Nura

    May 21, 2011

    Are you insinuating, Jenny, that fried chicken and potato salad are NOT health food? I resent that insinuation!!!

  • Nura

    May 21, 2011

    I think you are absolutely right to be careful of any workers in your home, I guess my point was only that women who marry “up” out of that class are only doing what people have done since Adam and Eve. And Abraham married Hagar (in Islam,she was just a concubine in the Hebrew scriptures). Men have taken and done what they want with women of that class since forever-that they look after themselves is nothing to put down. We work with what we are given. In my case, I was an American nanny working with middle/upper class American professionals. I wanted to see the world, I wanted to meet people I would never meet in my little suburban town in the west. I wanted my world to grow-and it did. In some beautiful and harsh ways. I wasn’t in a horrible position to start with and when I wanted to leave that job, I did, and I worked at the pinnacle (I thought) at the time of the newspaper industry. And my world grew again. But I had choices and options and opportunities. And even here, I did. I could have married for money, I could have married for all kinds of reasons I would not have been proud of. I chose the best man. Those Filipina maids are at the mercy of employers as to whether their parents eat or not sometimes. I do NOT think it is mercenary for women to marry for security when the men they are marrying are marrying them for their youth, beauty, fecundity or ‘little-ness’. Yeah, sick. Anyway, some, like my ex husband, simply find their personalities (more quiet, docile and less American woman like) appealing. So, it works for all of them when they find someone they like.

    Just remember, most of the world does not marry in some huge romantic fog. They marry for practical reasons, family, property, society. Among all you american girls-how many were told that it was as easy to fall in love with a rich man as a poor one???? We all had a mom or aunt remind us of that. We were taught from earliest life to seek out the men that could offer us the most (fortunately many girls are now taught that it is great to have a career AND a successful husband-I was not raised in that kind of family, unfortunately, and I am not particularly ambitious innately, so I didn’t have some big career drive). Its just that it doesn’t seem so avaricious when one has a middle class family and a decent job to start with, does it?

    Ah, I have got to go pray magrib. It is so funny, it used to seem that prayers took SOOOOO long, and now they just fly by.

    Love to you allhappy I am off to spend a little quality time with my beautiful, wonderful husband that I adore!!!!

    N.

  • Jenny

    May 21, 2011

    @ Nura,

    Please allow me to explain myself further, then you will understand. I would just like to state I am Muslim, but I cannot help the way I was raised. Some of the thoughts become habit without even thinking. Just like I was raised in the south and you could never convince me that fried chicken and potato salad isn’t health food.

    I’ve changed the behaviors and beliefs that go against Islam, but the behaviors that make my faith in Islam stronger I keep. For example, the old me had to wash fruits and vegetables a certain way that would take hours. That stray bug lurking in lettuce could cause spiritual harm as it was not kosher. As a Muslim, bugs are haram. I ran this by our Imam who thought about it for a second and thought my behavior was absolutely correct and should be commended for the extra effort to keep my husband’s food and home halal.

    Ok, here is another one of those principles: a woman cannot look a man in the eyes (or shouldn’t). When you bring home an innocent women’s magazine, or even the Muslim magazines, what is in them? Women’s faces looking right at you. Why bring that into your home for your husband to accidently see? Why invite him to stumble? Is that not haram too? I think it is. Again, my Imam thought that was pretty observant. He actually asked me to teach these principles to the Muslim women. How can your husband be silently thinking of Allah when he is looking at a woman’s face promoting the make-up (in haram shades) that we can’t wear in the first place?

    Just food for thought! Ladies, you must protect your home!

  • Jenny

    May 21, 2011

    @ Nura,

    I think you are the exception to all the statements, and BTW, that is a huge compliment.

    As for myself, I am not saying anything bad about maids. I am saying on record, that in my view, it is a bad idea to have someone mixing in with the home fires.

    When I have a “day worker” (that’s what they are called in my neck of the woods), she is there for just a couple of hours and it is during the time my husband is not home. I trust my husband, but I don’t trust other people. I see no purpose to invite trouble in my life. It has been a very long time since I even had a day worker. Luckily, my husband doesn’t care how the house is, as long as he has clean socks and underwear and dinner is ready. happy I am serious when I say that. I can’t ever recall a time where he complained about the house being clean. He just really doesn’t care, long as he has dinner, clean socks and underwear, that’s all he cares about.

    You answered the question yourself when you said all the Filipino women thought American men were handsome because of the security. It doesn’t matter why a woman wants to snag a man. These days, a wife has to act like a prison guard when she allows people; especially, women into their homes. I wish them well in their plight in finding an American husband, whether they are Muslim or not, it just will not be with my husband.

    Another thing, after I mentioned how I do not allow secular books, mags and t.v. into my home, I still rely on the old Jewish ways out of habit. The agency I use my day workers the women are trained for cleaning in Jewish homes, which means when a day worker comes out, she is not in tight jeans and short shirts. She is dressed modestly: A long skirt, long sleeve shirt, hair covered, and no bold make-up or heavy perfumes. Over that she wears a very long blue apron designating her as domestic help.

    Wives have to be careful and on guard to maintain the purity of their home. You are the guardians of your husband and children and must guard from haram entering your home. Everything must be watched. I may sound hyper-vigilant, but again, that is probably my Jewish roots showing, but that his how a home is run.

  • Nura

    May 21, 2011

    I have BEEN the nanny/housekeeper, ladies and I NEVER looked at any of the men I worked for as marriage prospects. EVER. I didn’t think to have an affair with any of them either, and I was not Muslim at the time.

    I think everyone is interested in their own best interests-that is natural, but I don’t think most maids are just out looking to snare a man to better their lives at the expense of everything else. I have a Filipina friend who says that ALL the Filipinas she know think American men are handsome and they all want to marry one. You want to know what makes them so handsome? Not the looks or even money per se, but the security. Americans live in a country where they know any children that they have will be safe and can grow up without fear of militias and the political nastiness and extreme poverty that pervades the Philippines. Throughout history women and men have married to strengthen alliances, cement family ties, improve the family fortunes. This isn’t about gold digging necessarily (for most). It is about survival and security. That is not an evil thing to want or to desire. And if a woman is Muslim and has a halal offer of marriage from a Muslim man who is her employer-and nothing wrong has happened, she should not hesitate (because she is a maid) from marrying him.

    We should all be careful of who we let in our home and what temptations we might be setting before our husbands and sons, but I really think we need to stop thinking the maids are a bunch of evil, man hungry vixens out to steal our men. They are human beings with the same needs as all of us.

    My husband married me in part because he knew I needed help. He was worried I might marry someone who would use or hurt me because he thought I was vulnerable to that kind of thing in the position that I was in. I was struggling financially because I had left my (now ex) husband and didn’t seek financial help from him (so Islam would not be blamed for his fiancial issues in a divorce). I have a part time job and while I could survive, that is pretty much it. I wouldn’t be getting too far ahead. And in all honesty, I sought marriage so that I could stay in the land of Islam. I live in the richest country in the world but I have one salable skill in this country and it doesn’t pay that great w/0 a degree. I was terrified to go back to the states where I was from. My family was against me, there are hardly any Muslims in my old area (west coast, rural), and my job skill, without a degree, was even less valuable than it is here. Plus, I was not going to be able to get custody of my son (because of Islam and the fact that I had no money or a decent job and my ex would fight to the death to keep me from getting his money or his son). And I didn’t want to be alone for the rest of my life. I wanted a good, faithful Muslim man that would help me with my deen and take care of me, and I would take care of him.

    Is that mercenary of me? Maybe you all think so. Or I am weak. Or?? I don’t know. There are a lot of things I think about myself but I do know that in this country I could have had a place to live and sustenance whether I married or not. They have resources and I have lots of friends. There is not a lot a Muslim woman can do without a husband, and being married is a desirable state. I could have married a single man, but none of them that was interested met my requirements.

    No, my husband is not rich. He is not an oil Arab, he is a professional that is a dime a dozen here. I do work (well, I have the summer off and can afford it now).

    None of this is to say I married my husband for any reason that is a right or wrong reason, it is to say that ultimately, whatever you think of my reasons and my choice to be a second wife, I do love my husband with all my heart and try to please him as he pleases me. I am committed to him for life. I want to serve Allah with him, by his side. I am married to him, and I love him and I am his wife and I need him and he needs me, too.

    This wasn’t some epic romance, but it was nothing remotely tawdry, either. I worry though-I did feed him once-do you think I inadvertently lured him in with my broiled chicken and green beans and rice? It was pretty delish.

  • Jenny

    May 20, 2011

    @ Khadija,

    It’s okay being nerdy. I am certainly that way!

    I always overcook and make sure there are plenty of left overs as Hubs loves it for lunch the next day, and than all I have to do is warm it up. I overcook also to stash things away in the freezer. Learned that trick when raising four children. happy

    For me, I’m over the whole career thing. My mother used to tell me when I was young that someday I would regret not staying home when the children were babies. I missed a lot. I will miss nothing with these babies. I don’t care if I ever wear another suit or put on another pair of pantyhose in my life. I like wearing my sweatpants around the house (I would never go out in them!) doing what needs to be done. I read a lot and I knit, crochet, needlepoint, and quilt. I also have my garden inside the house (Hubs says we have a jungle). I have an organic vegetable and herb garden. It is really getting out of hand, but I am going to add a lettuce box on Sunday, then I will stop. I have so many plants I have no place to put them! We have tomato plants behind our headboard of our bed along the window ledge. All you can smell is the tomatoes and the Greek oregano. I literally have tomatoes hanging over our heads while we sleep. I keep picturing a tomato knocking my husband in the head while he is sleeping! laughing I have the tomatoes there because it gets the strong sunlight.

    I laugh because my husband calls himself “My Servant,” but I think it is the other way around. My entire day revolves around him, and that’s okay.

  • khadija

    May 20, 2011

    @ Jenny:

    Lol…your post made me laugh so much. I think you are the only person who is even more jealous than I am lol….

    Anyway, about not watching tv. That is not weird. I rarely watch tv, especially when I am in school. I also get my news online. I usually tend to watch a little when I am at home on break from school, but even then I watch african movies. I don’t acutally really watch the cable channels except for cnn. Yes, you can do a lot more productive things like you said than watching tv. I love to read interesting books for fun. I recently read a book about Bin Laden’s son and Bin laden’s first wife and they recount their story about their life with Osama. It’s called Growing Up Bin Laden. It was such a great book. Right know I am reading a book about women in Islam. Yes, I am a nerd, I know.

    Anyway, back to the topic. Yes, you should use the extra help for the difficult tasks like cleaning the fridges and ovens, because it would be too much for you to do by yourself along with taking care of the kids.

    I personally would just have a maid service like you hired come in maybe once or twice a month to do a general cleaning of the entire house. The other small chores I will take care of. Also, with laundry machines, washing clothes is easy. Ironing is what takes a little more time, but it is something you won’t have to do more than once a week. I will not let another woman wash or touch my husband’s clothes.
    Also, when it comes to what goes in his stomach, that will be my territory lol… I love to cook anyway. I know this lady who works fulltime, but she still manages to have dinner prepared every day for her husband. What she does is cook the food for the next day the night before and stores it in the fridge. So when she gets home in the evening she just heats it up for him. She cooks on her days off and stores that for the weekdays. She basically has a system where dinner would always be available for the next day. I think that is a smart idea. I really don’t want to let my career overshadow my duties as a wife and mom. It is something I will try to find the best way to strike a balance. Maybe I will work part time when my kids are small and then work full time when they get a little older. I am not sure. However, I prefer to put them in a nursery school or have a relative over from africa to help care for them. Or maybe my mom or my husband’s mom. I think now they have islamic nursery schools as well. However, it will not be a stranger.

  • Jenny

    May 20, 2011

    ASA!

    Khadija, you are reading my mind! When I have the day worker come, and it is rare, I use this one agency and I pay $10/hr plus $5 for the train. Not a bad deal because these women are quick workers. I think the longest I’ve ever had someone was for three hours. They are Spanish and don’t know a lick of English, nor I Spanish. I’ll call the office and tell them what I want her to do and they will translate for me.

    I keep their duties very simple, just the chores I really want to get out of, such as cleaning out the fridge, cleaning the oven/stove, cleaning the bathroom. I do my own laundry. Regardless how busy I get once the babies get here, my work at home, I will never have a housekeeper as a live in or full-time unless she is at least my mother’s age. Hell would freeze over before someone cooks for my husband. That will never happen.

    When I was in law school and working as a nurse, I did have a nanny for my children. She was a part-time librarian and old as the hills.

    Another point of caution is if you own your own business. Be careful who you let in the door! All the employees, even the office staff, is men. I don’t think my husband would want a woman working with him either because it wouldn’t look right. I know if I was alone with a male employee, my husband would be climbing the walls! So, I keep all the employees at the office men.

    A wife has to always control everything that goes on in her home. She is the guard so to speak. Allah entrusted her with a family she must protect. Fortunately in my case (due to my Jewish upbringing) I do not allow unmodest books, magazines, tv, etc into my home. I get magazines, but they do not show women’s faces or bodies. Same goes with books. One never knows when your husband or children will pick up what you are reading. Don’t laugh at this one, but I swear I am telling you the truth here: we DO NOT watch TV. We do not even own a TV set! Again, that is my Jewish influence and my husband couldn’t care. He feels it is better to be without TV. If I want to see the news, I look at it online. Granted, online is another breeding ground for disaster. When our babies come and his children from Pakistan, there will still be no t.v. Kids will be kids for as long as we can make it last. No t.v means there is a lot of conversation, Qu’ran reading, and family time! winking Some people think its weird and some think its downright abusive, but there will be no t.v. in our home.

  • khadija

    May 20, 2011

    Salams,

    Ana, I am glad you brought this article to the spotlight. Great Idea!

    Yes, my point is if a woman is living in your house and is having constant contact with your husband, feelings can definitely develop. Also, many maids want an opportunity to get out of poverty, so marrying their boss can be a way out of poverty for them. Put yourself in the shoes of some poor girl from a third world country who is working for a wealthy boss. Do you think she wants to be a maid forever? If she can get her boss to marry her, she will take the opportunity. Usually people who can afford to hire maids, tend to be comfortable financially so many maids can use their job as an opportunity to get a rich man so they can have their own maid and live a life of comfort.

    Besides, it could also not just only be about money. She might end up genuinely loving her boss as well after getting used to him. Also, sometimes the wives can be at fault by letting the maid take over the household out of laziness. I think she can help to LESSEN your household work, but when it comes to certain things, especially her husband’s needs, the wife should take care of those, not the maid.

    My aunt in africa makes sure she is the one to make her husband’s dinner and cleans her own bedroom. She feels that those are her private domain and the maid should not take care of those. Also, when it comes to the children as well, you should make sure you spend quality time with them and not leave them all the time with the maid. Your children should not become attached to the maid more than you. Look at the husband in the article with the three sons who said his kids are more attached to the maid. He even said they love her more! So seeing that is just going to make the man love the 2nd wife even more. She can not only take your husband’s affection, but even your children. I would be too jealous and protective when it comes to my husband and children.

    Even if I work, I will still make sure to cook on my off days and clean the house when I am off. I will not have an unrelated woman living in my house. Most of these maids would love to marry their bosses for financial gain so I could never trust having one in my home. I know most these maids working in wealthy homes would not reject a proposal from their boss if they were to get one from him.

    I mean you can still have a maid, but just make sure the household is still under your control. Make sure she is not the one who knows where your husbands socks are or what his favorite foods are etc… I think you should get your husband used to your “touches on things” like Jenny likes to say.

    If I were to have a maid, I would have her come in a couple of times a week when I am in the home and have her help me. I will be the one to wash my husband’s clothes and take care of his food. I don’t want him getting used to another woman’s food. Even those little things can make him love her. She could turn out to be a great cook. It is very important to try to be involved in taking care of your husband. Otherwise, if you spend too much time away from domestic duties and this other woman (maid) is around taking care of things, he will start to see wifely qualities in her. Also, many of these maids are also young girls, which many men like.

    Also, I will not hire some young pretty girl as a maid. I will hire a more mature woman. I know a couple of people’s grandmothers who babysit. You know someone he would not be attracted to and won’t be a temptation for him. Also, not live-ins. Many of these maids are opportunity seekers.

  • ana

    May 20, 2011

    I had considered hiring a housekeeper(never a live in one, though). If I were to hire one now, I would only have her come in while I, and not Alex, was at home with her. I would never give her a key to my home either. It’s out of the question. We can learn from what happens with others.

    Jenny, thanks for the idea of a day worker. I didn’t thing I could call one in whenever needed. I thought I had to have a contract with one to come in on a regular. I have to look into it in the area where I live, Insha Allah.

    btw, the union guy/truck driver that went missing and was never found, was Jimmy Hoffa. The movie was, “Hoffa.” He said, “Never let a stranger in your cab, in your house or in your heart… unless he is a friend of labor.” I had mentioned him before, but couldn’t remember his name.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Jenny

    May 20, 2011

    Wow! What an article! After reading this, I am delighted I am a stay at home wife! There are times when I just don’t have the energy to clean the house, being pregnant. In that case, I always call an agency that sends over a day worker for $10 an hour when Hubs isn’t home.

    It was funny, the other day I told him about Arnie, the Gov of California having a love child with his maid. Hubs was joking with me, “I guess you would divorce me if I did that!” My response to him is I’m glad we will never be rich enough to afford a live-in maid to find out. happy

    In all seriousness, inviting people into your home and family; especially a woman, is inviting big trouble! Without sounding sexist, things seem to work much better when the wife is home caring for her family herself.

  • ana

    May 20, 2011

    If polygamy is permissible, there has to be women willing to marry these men. Women and men must meet and come together some how. A maid with employer is one of those ways.

    Shouldn’t a woman expect that her husband may be attracted to the maid?

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.