Polygamy 411

Islam Ana,
I feel much like Carolinah in your story as the second “아내.” We had all attempted to create some kind of house structure and schedules in the home but #1 was opposed and really was not responsive. She would just complain but was not interested in solutions. I was prompted by our “남편” to create a schedule and structure to eliminate the strain on #1 and fulfill my purposes to #1: to have a sistership and unity and bond of collective home governing with equal work and time with our “남편.” She just didn’t do it and we did not get over who did what or should have could haves. It was so irritating and since it was her home first who am I to come change things, even if it was for the better? and even if she was a poor household manager who clearly could use and benefit from the help.

Islam Ana
and thank you for your response. I too am shy at the similar stories we share. reading your story sounded like my story being told by #1. I had been asking myself the same question throughout the relationship about if any good can come from it being that it was built on a bad foundation.
You have reminded me of the holy scriptures which we should seek guidance from as they are holy word of Allah:
Yeshoua(PBUH) 고 말했다: “Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.” (Matthew 7:24-25)
및
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.” (Matt 7:15-20)

These scriptures are very helpful to keep in mind because the gifts of the Lord are not taken back so we can only know good and evil by their fruits sometimes. I see the fruit of this union. I think of what has been good and what has been bad. What happens to bad fruit and is it possible for a tree to yield both good and bad fruits or to only yield seemingly good but in reality bad fruit? I have saw good come out of my situation but it has been out measured by the bad in my opinion.
The scripture says that trees yielding bad fruit or no fruit are CHOPPED down and CAST INTO THE FIRE. We must determine what our situations are yielding and I think I have done this. I have decided to chop this tree and cast it into the fire. AM I doing the will Allah?

Referencing again the scriptures, some scriptural base for our polygynous marriages do exist and should serve as guidance and cautions to us. There is the story of Yacob(PBUH) and his four wives. As there was no equity between Rachel and Lea(PBUT)h in the begining as Yacob loved Rachel more, Yahoviah taught the lesson of equality among wives by closing Rachel’s womb for a time. But their marriage ended well. It was a strong model in which Yacobs lineage was built up in the way commanded by the Great God and it yielded more holy ones of the LORD.

Of the marriages of Ibrahim(PBUH) with Sarai and Hagar(PBUT). Sarai was #1 here and she did to Hagar what many #2 have done to them to this day. It was un Islamic and Allah was not pleased with her behavior. However who ended up raising her son as she passed and Ibrahim took to wife Keturah(PBUH) and built nations through his lineage with her and subsequent wives. No good came from Sarai acting this way towards Hagar, one minute advocating the union of Hagar and Ibrahim and then thinking that her blessing justifies cause for tearing that apart. But I reason that some good did come from the separation as Hagar was still protected by the Holy Breath when she was cast out and Ishmael(PBUH) went on to father many a great nations including Islamic peoples.
I believe that Allah governs all events and we have to strive to be one minded with HIM. Yes and Amen are HIS.

This is a hard thought. What made Yacob’s situation ultimately good? The fact that there was realization and repentance?

To answer your question about my marital status and affair… I am even confused. This confusion has lead me in many directions and seeking answers I am glad that the Holy Breath guided me here to this blog.
I do not believe that our marriage is valid and I am in the process of dissolving whatever it is that is there. I acknowledge that my subsequent relationship is illicit and I pray that I have the forgiveness of Allah for it. The affair kind of just happened when my mind was made up that I wanted out and I was detached mentally and emotionally but did not know how to say to my “남편.” We had not been together or lived in the same home in almost a year and I am not treated as a wife so I feel like not vocalizing my plan in time before the other relationship is my sin to bare. I had no intentions of starting this relationship but all events are divinely prepared and this relationship reminds me at least of how I should not feel. I should have spoke sooner but I didn’t and now its a mess.
My leaving has nothing to do with the other relationship though, it was headed down long before then.
I pray for mercy in this matter. I seek a better relationship with Allah as he knows best.

I have to answer to Allah in the last day and even now for all that I have done and I will. I will accept any punishment and pray that my good deeds outweigh my bad.

Islam and thank you dr.omar. i am pondering this as I do rely on Allah’s mercy. Only Allah knows my heart and it is broken.
I appreciate all prayers for myself.

Peace&Blessings

Salaam T o All,

With respect to any woman’s “fall” from grace, mercy is required as well as knowledge in order to comprehend cause and effect.

It is much too easy to blame the “loose woman” and society readily does so because it is essentially male chauvinist, and this chauvinist attitude is a cover for masculine cowardice and irresponsibility.

How indeed does a Muslim woman fall from grace when she is supposedly encapsuled by Imams and Walii everywhere? The fact of the matter is, for the most part, that those assigned to the task are asleep on watch, or too busy sinning themselves to notice until their manhood and dignity is threatened publicly.

When a woman is in the care of men who really don’t know how to care or don’t care to care for her properly, she automatically becames prey to any man who may pretend to understand her and be of “service” in her hour of need (i.e., neglect).

Therefore, when husbands fail to minister to the emotional, intellectual and physical needs of their women, they are thereby responsible for placing that woman at risk and will be held accountable as Imams who lied to their followers, because their nikah with the woman is essentially a contract or promise or treaty whereby he agrees before Allah and the Community to be her Wali and hence protect her and not just provide for her.

Think about it …. marriage is serious business, and men are indeed responsible for its success or failure.

wasalaam,

dr omar

salaam Dear Sister,

Ah ,,,, you are trying to compare apples with oranges. His neglect does not equate with the sin of adultery. He will have to answer to Allah for his neglect, not her sin. She full well knows what she is doing and so does the intruding male in such a case, which is why they tend to hide the offense.

The death penalty in no way addresses the insult to the husband, but rather it addresses and corrects the insult to Allah, His religion and law, and the foundation of stability for the community, which is marriage.

Divorce is made easy in Islam so that adultery isn’t really necessary. 그러나, I concede that an oppressive chauvinism and silly legalism prevents most women from obtaining what Allah and his prophet made easy for them … their freedom from the oppression of self-serving men.

그러나, this does not excuse adultery in any way or for any reason. Any man who sincerely wishes to marry an opressed woman can sue for her release and one way or another make the unreasonable man an offer he shouldn’t refuse. This is the point and focus of Adab: that is, to put each person, place and thing in it’s proper position so that the Cause of Allah is served by allowing that person, place or thing to serve truth: this is justice and the absolute focus of Muslim Adab.

To the contrary, current adab is corrupted because knowledge is corrupt and hence the present adab serves hypocrisy and is devoid of fitrah, common sense, logic, clear definitions and hence truth. This sad condition then serves only to support injustice by placing improper leaders and religious interpretations (sects) in positions of authority so that injustice reigns.

This is most manifest by the pre-eminence of Whahabism in Arab affairs as well as the Middle-Eastern involvement with Freemasonry, such as Mubarak and King Hussein, and others of serious import, et alia. Freemasonry is anathema to Islam and such leaders should be put to death.

When injustice like this reigns, we are told to flee oppression, and if an unjust law supercedes Shari’ah and is defended by the ignorant who are evil by default since ignorance only serves the purpose of evil or harm, it is commanded by Allah to flee such oppression. Hence such a flight in itself is a divorce from that authority, and hence also there is then no cause for adultery. Which is why I said the new lover should sue the oppressing (unjust) husband with an offer he cannot or shouldn’t refuse.

This is a form of jihad which only a brave man of substance would prosecute. The essence of romance in such a situation is the cause of justice we all recognize, and it is not the man’s love for the woman in question. Taking her in private without confronting her oppressor is a coward’s act and deserves a coward’s death. It’s all quite simple to comprehend when you remove lawyers and duplicitous logic from the ring of reason.

Recently I had to decide not to make such a suit on behalf of a woman I loved because I was unable to consequently prosecute the war to success. But had I the influence to either bribe or intimidate the oppressing ex-husband, I would have done so without hesitation.

This is why we all love Clint Eastwood despite his horrendous bad habits of on-screen drinking and fornication. I am not justifying his exploits at all, but rather am using him as an allegory for the prosecution of justice. As it is, he may be a bit of a bastard himself but he never “kilt nobody didn’t need killin” and never beat the tar out of somebody didn’t deserve it.

음, he’s dealing God’s justice whether we legally condone it or not, just as the Sons of Ghenghis did in Baghdad. Today’s Muslims are not doing this however, and they ;;; above all people ;;; should be! Instead, they have to flee their own countries and most often do this because it is easier to sin in both Europe and America. Am I hittin some sore spots here? Good!

어쨌든, it’s an excellent question and deserves our attention. 에, for one, am absolutely fed up with Muslim pretense and have gone to war with my pen.

The truth is that both men and women are failing to obey even their common sense. Most are following Jews and Christians like Lemmings to jump over cliffs of reason and enter the seas of modernity where reason is corrupt, lies and liars are king, and sin has full license.

I say “enough is enough” and no one is getting past my pen unless they serve the truth.

wasalaam,

dr omar

Islam Ana,
to continue the discussion regarding Carolinah and stubbornness between myself and #1 and how I was brought home…

Well I know that getting along with Carolinah will be hard at first if it is anything like my experience but someone has to be the bigger person and the better moslem. I was glad that I did after I called her to initiate contact. However the roles did reverse at times after she would ruin the progress we’d made in communication with one of her fits and I would stay away and not talk feeling completely justified.
Your communication with carolinah may be dependent on Alex’s moderation thereof at least at first as ours was. Our “남편” had to physically bring us together or prompt us to call and lead the conversation until we were comfortable with each other and just got used to the idea of ‘having’ to talk to this other woman for the sake of peace and “blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called friends of Allah.”

With regard to when and how I moved in, it was after many visits and conversations. I was invited to move in after my first attempt to leave the relationship. And you’re never going to believe this but #1 initiated contact with me to return and invited me to back. On agreeing to speak with the pair, I was given a house key and invited to move in. This was at about 5 months I will estimate. Its funny however because before I was officially moved in I would stay there overnight sometimes and she took the opportunity to leave her children with me. She trusted me with them and was getting a taste of the relief that I was supposed to provide to her.
She would get fits of anger or whatever and jump up and leave at all kinds of hours and I, yes me, the little sister, the Islamic novice would have to say “this is no hour for a believing woman to be outside without her husband” and things to that effect. She would do these things to cause scenes and get attention. Jumping up in some fit of emotion to leave at 1am and having our “남편” go out looking for her.
Needful to say I ended up moved in by what I thought was the invitation of both of them and it was harmonious at some times and not so at others. I tried to develop a structure and schedule with her. Things such as cleaning and tending the children, cooking, and she was not responsive and didn’t really care. So when he would complain about the cleaning, I didn’t know what to do because she would seldom clean and when she did it was not very well. Was I supposed to do it all? Thats not fair right? So I would do things when I felt they needed to be done and I think she thought I was trying to outshine her or something…
She would bring haram food into the home and I would have a problem with it. The children were out of control and she was fine with that. I attempted to change these things.
It didn’t work.
I hope that I have helped and given more insight about my journey as #2.
홈, I do not take offense to your honesty. I just want many #1′s to understand better that #2 is not always the enemy. Sometimes she is a confused woman who is trying her best. You have helped me to understand more about #1′s position and I know that we can not always control emotions.

Salaam To All,

Ana’s question whicj I left unanswered:

My question is: Isn’t it a fact that for the most part a man will fall short of satisfying ALL of a woman’s needs (감정적인, intellectual, and physical) somehow, someway?

예…. this is a fact, but not because men cannot do it. The fact is that men are not taught what their own needs are let alone those of a woman. And the opposite is also true. Women are not meeting the needs of their men for the very same reason.

For an entire generation in the USA you had Barbie and Ken dolls representing reality according to Kabalist magic and to the delight of shylock bean counters on Wall Street. “Ozzie and Harriot” ? 기억 “My Three Sons” ?? McHale’s Navy and Gomer Pyle ? These models of manhood were put foward by hOLLYWOOD and New York and then duplicated enmasse while Christian evangelicals pushed the “Halleluyah Jesus” drug and real drugs were pushed on the streets.

School curriculum was dumbed down and the Commandment of Musa removed from the Supreme Court. All this occured while ‘honor killing’ Muslims moved into Detroit and set up kebab stands and worshipped under the Star and Crescent of ancient Babylon that was placed on almost all Muslim Mosques by the corrupted Ottoman Khaliphate some 500 years ago.

Progress had been made, booty has been harvested, but truth has gone missing. So who teaches any man how to love a woman? Anybody know?

I am writing the book now.

Wasalaam,

dr omar

Salaam Uncle (Dr. 오마르),

With all due respect, are you suggesting I shut down this blog. The whole purpose of this blog is so that each and everyone of us are able to speak openly and honestly with one another and be frank here. Anonymity is accepted, which is why we have stage names and privacy is respected with regard everyone’s identity. I would hate for anyone to feel they should hold back from saying whatever they’d like to share. If we have to speak superficially here, there’s no need to speak at all, as it would be a useless forum.

I respectfully request you not take us back to the stone ages or stunt our progress.

Forgive me if I am being way harsh.

Respectfully, 홈

이것은 오픈 하우스입니다. 필요가 노크. 그냥 들어와.

Salaam Dr. 오마르,

You’re forgiven..just don’t let it happen again LOL

어쨌든, I’ve never had homicidal, nor suicidal thoughts…I believe you know that.

For now, I must have some comfort food (a small amount of ice cream) watch a moment of TV (a drug intervention program that looks very interesting (it’s recorded), and go to sleep so I could rise for Fajr.

If I may, Dr. 오마르, I will entertain your questions tomorrow. You’ve cause me exhaustion. Until then…Wasalaam.

Salaam Dr. 오마르,

I thought there was more for me to address, regarding your previous comment; 그러나, I think I’ve answered all. Just to reiterate, I’ve had no homicidal thoughts regarding Alex or Carolinah-although I believe you were joking with the question. I neither hate Alex or myself.

I wouldn’t classify Alex with the “gigolos”, as he is gainfully employed with a respectable job and income and he sufficiently spends his wealth on me. As I previously said, Alex was ready, willing, and able to spend all his wealth on me and I didn’t have to spend any of my own monies. In America, as you know, many married couples spend their monies jointly which is what I proposed to Alex and we agreed to before we married. I wanted to keep my independence and not rely on a man for everything. I explained Alex and my financial situation at the very beginning of the blog, the second entry under “Monogamy, Polygamy & Me-Background Info.”, 장 1, 내 여행.

With regard Carolinah, I don’t think Alex took into consideration that the only way he was able to help take care of her is because I didn’t ask for 100% of my right to be financially taken care of. The percentage that I didn’t claim, he’s using to help take care of Carolinah, which is why I said she need to shut up, stop complaining, take the money and enjoy the sex. 그래서, there you have it. I don’t know what more to say.

I’m not going to leave Alex and go out there looking for another husband amongst a bunch of what you called “failures, wannabees, predators, and widowers,” nor do I want to be someones 2nd, 3rd, or 4th wife. 그래서, with that said, I will persevere with patience and wait on Allah’s decision.

이것은 오픈 하우스입니다. 필요가 노크. 그냥 들어와.

Salaam Brother Ali,

Hmmm …. interesting perspective, one to which you are entitled …

Not the Sunnah is it? Have you been to Medina to see the first Masjid in which all of the Mother’s of Islam lived? Have you seen how small their “rooms” with dirt floors were?… one next to the other and along the same outer wall and under the same roof .. ? They were not Houses and certainly were within extremely close earshot of each other … have you seen them or at least read about them brother ?? …

If it is not the sunnah, why then do my colleagues here at the Islamic Graduate University (who are Internationally known Sheikhs from all over the globe, not call me to task about it? And Why are my traditional African brothers from the Sudan and Mauritania commending me and my wives for following the Sunnah as do their own fathers and mothers, and why do their wives praise mine own for their piety and share stories with them about their own shared houswholds which are filled with happy children and contented women with humble needs?

My second wife already has her own home by the way, and the third to come insh’Allah prefers to live with us because she is moving to a new country and has no extended family here.

As I’ve said, this arrangement is certainly not for everybody and must fit indiidual needs. And furthermore, both my 2nd and 3rd wives ASKED ME TO MARRY THEM, not the other way round, and both knew what they were/are getting into and both love my first wife, Ainah and spend more time with her, and often by choice than with me.

I’ve even had a fourth lady ask me to be number four and live with us as well, but I’ve turned her away because I can’t see myself able to give four ladies the quality time they really need. I’m just too old fo it Ali (60 지금) …

Hmmm .. maybe we’re doing something wrong after all brother, because it seems the majority of people we talk to just don’t approve of an egalitarian lifestyle where the responsibilities of daily living are shared in peaceful tranquility, much like you don’t either.

…. 하지만 … to tell you the truth Ali, it sure does feel right and my women are filled with more smiles and joy than most others I know, including those with their own hubbies, cars and houses as well as the lot that writes their doleful stories on this blog.

Now as far as the Hadith is concerned, the situation I’m in seems to be prophecied, and even Isa said that in this day 7 women would ask one man for his name and marriage. 그래서, I really don’t see brother Ali how I am degrading women unless you measure degradation with money, houses and other things instead of happiness, peace and security, sisterly affection for each other, and the metaphysical meeting with destiny and daily guidance without confusion (perplexity).

Sure it is that I wouldn’t be able to do this without Allah’s guidance or if I had to buy each one a house and car, a microwave, rolex, two week grand vacation, reboks and new teeth, etc etc (we don’t have TV either ’cause i won’t permit that Illuminati altar in my masjid) …. guess that makes me a “Fundamentalist” now don’t it bro ???

But the requirements of a husband, as I remember them from what little knowledge I do have of Islam is that a wife is to be fed, housed and clothed and this is in addition to being sexed (part of sentence removed by moderator). Hmmmm ,,, seems that’s what I’m doing and all on my own money, and am sexing them a bit more than minimally required as well and much to their satisfaction before i take my own, just like the Prophet advised. Sure … I’m a bit economic about this plural marriage but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s un-Islamic brother … does it???

내말은, if all my wives are home, then I don’t have to spend time running traffic jams and have more quality time for each one, as well as their children. And this is not to mention that each one of them has more time as well because the household duties are shared, including taking care of hubby’s private needs.

음, look Ali, if you want o run round town and give each wife everything she wants, that’s your business. I prefer a much simpler approach, as did the Prophet (PUH).

Hmmmm …

Salaam Ana,

Ok … i apologise dear sister but I thought I picked up on some deep seated animosity in between some of the lines you wrote about Alex spending on her because of your own generosity. Wouldn’t be the first time I was wrong about something, and won’t be the last. Normal humans get damn angry about such things and certainly broach deadly intent on occassional ruminations. I’m glad you’re beyond that.

Widowers are just fine by the way …. but they’re also rare and in great demand.

Wasalaam,

dr omar

sallam

Ana i would like to thank you for this insightfull blog! im only 16 and it has helped me tremendously! to understand polygamy and im even beginning to warm up to the idea of maybe one day when im married to have a second wife, although i wouldnt like to be #2

and also i have a question if anybody knows the answer..
i have heard somewhere that if there is a man and wife and one has a higher position in jannah that Allah will unite them in the higher parties Jannah, but what if a man has two(or more) wives and one wife is more pious than both the remaininig wives and husband, then would the wives and husban unite in her(pious wifes) jannah?

jazaakallah!
once again awesome blog!!i get so dissappointed sometimes if i see theres no new post i check it RELIGIOUSLY!even my father has warned me not to use up all his bandwidth oh well! Goodnight.

…..AND! i read somewhere in your blog concerning jacod zuma!well im from souh africa and he just took another wife not sure how many his at now but im pretty sure he has 19 kids! Okay im done

salaam!

Alahamduiallah. Salaam To Yo Zainab,

Nice to meet you and great to know and have your quetions. Please keep them coming.

Unfortunately, I cannot answer you query about the less pious wife and Jannah. Allah knows. The important thing is to avoid the fire and not run with the 72 sects that belong to the fire.

We can only do our best, and Allah SWT judges us for our intentions, and that includes less pious wives and husbands too.

Being #1 or #2 or #3 또는 4 is not what’s important. What’s important is not being in the fire.

wasalaam zainab,

dr omar

Dr. Omer,

In your own words, your wives are women with humble needs who submit to your authority and who get daily guidance (without confusion) from you.

When guidance and authority both comes from a single source then words like happiness, peace and security, sisterly affection are unnecessary. It seems your wives are not permitted to have choice of being independent thinker, you define happiness (등등) for them.

salaam
i dont think your blog has given 2nd wives at all a bad name, neither do i think they’re evil. my fathers mother was a second wife for i think about 1 또는 2 years but that never lasted as she was very demanding(she went on to has 3 more husband-all of which she divorced). My grandfathers(fathers father) son(a y ear older than my father) too took a 2nd wife in secret and his father gave up speaking to him and as for his 1st wife, last time i saw her she was visibly depressed and frail but i think shes doing alot better now, i think he took a second wife to get away from his busy life as he has 7 kids, mostly under 12 but so far most of the polygamous stories ive heard in and around my neighborhood have ended in tears as it is not exactly pious god-fearing men who are wealthy enough to look after more than one household. but i think it wouldnt kill 2nd,3rd or 4th wives to ask permission from the 1st wife if shes okay with it, most men wont say well my wife doesnt want me taking a second wife but thats just the way i see things. i hope my father doesnt take a second wife though, my mother is completely devoted to him lucky man he is.

salaam

Wow… Zainab, I had no idea you have so much firsthand knowledge about polygamy. From your own family and neighbors, you’ve seen so much of all that everyone has spoken about on the blog (divorce, secret wives, depression experienced by a wife, tears and sadness). No wonder you are so wise.

Thank you for letting me know it wasn’t my blog that made you not want to be a #2. I was very concerned and bothered by that. I feel much better now. Polygamy definitely isn’t a nice walk in the park for anyone unless those walking in the park are two Believers. It takes a lot to get to the point of truly accepting polygamy, a beautiful acceptance with enthusiasm and contentment. I believe it could be done, as the beloved wives of the Prophet (PBUH) did it. It takes a lot of hard work and struggle. We have to turn to Allah (SWT) for his help and guidance with it. I agree with you when you said: “It is not exactly pious god-fearing men who are wealthy enough to look after more than one household.”

I know how painful it would be for you to see your mom hurt, if your dad takes another wife. It would hurt you to see the pain and anguish she’ll suffer, just as much as it hurts her. 하지만, let’s be optimistic that all will be well. Perhaps you could guide your mom a little bit, subtlety so she doesn’t know it. Talk to her about loving Allah more than a human being, about depending more on Allah (SWT) than a husband, about expecting everyone we love to leave us one day-discussions like that would help you and your mom, 내 생각은. It helps me.

You seem to have a good head on your shoulders, Zainab. 내가기도 알라 (SWT) continues to bless you with knowledge and understanding.

(PS. I’m having a little bit of trouble with your smiley’s posting correctly. You may have to leave an extra space before and after the smiley symbols, separating them from the sentences. Try that and see if it works)

이것은 오픈 하우스입니다. 필요가 노크. 그냥 들어와.

Islam Ana,
Regarding meeting Carolinah, why don’t you think that Alex would protect you in any event that something broke out? That is his job. Even still Allah will be your protector by night and by day for the righteous are as bold as lions and as gentle as doves. Fear has no place in the heart of a believer, just know Allah will protect you, even if Alex does not.
#1 said a lot of very mean and assaulting things to myself as well but in the interest of being forgiven our debts as we forgive out debtors, she will make peace and forgive if she is a good God-fearing woman. By practicing Islam, you are a peacemaker and I encourage you to display that in the name of Allah.
I have a question about her about why you say she makes a mockery of Islam? Why do you think this? Do you know for a fact that she is making mockery of Islam? Or is she just unlearned in Islam? Does she have another faith path (which all faith paths lead to Allah)
About my #1 not being a good housekeeper, I was told that she was not a good housekeeper for a long time before me and her excuse was because of the children. A large part of him seeking a #2 from what I was told was for her so the house could run better and that we would be a collective inter-dependant family. I can accept that as it is an ancient custom of the ancestors. Community and Collectivity gives room for everyone to be comfortable. So I don’t blame my introduction to the house as her reason for not tending the house. She always had a new reason but she primarily blamed the children.
I can understand number one wanting to get away, but actually going outside wandering around at night just is not wise. Nothing good is out at that hour only shaytan. But I can understand her feeling closed in on, but she never expressed any of these feelings in a civil way even when I tried to talk to her or comfort her when she was sad or ask her whats wrong. She would never talk. I would ask if it was me and she wouldn’t say until later when there was an argument and she would just blow up all of these things she should have and was given the opportunity to voice prior. but I guess its like a pressure cooker or something and she wasn’t ready or willing to talk until everything boiled out of control.
I would say that a part of her wanted to accept this new thing that was happening to her and another part of her was torn about accepting it. I think that she was not ready and had we done everything properly I think she could have and would have accepted me. But our “husband” did not acquire me correctly, much like the case may be with Carolinah. A faulty foundation because he did not go about bringing her in correctly and maybe like me she went along because she’d never been in a polygynous situation and did not know how everything was supposed to work but just trusted Alex enough to go along. That’s what I did, not expecting to be attacked because I trusted he was operating correctly.
I had put myself in #1’s place so many times figuratively so I could try to better understand her and not overstep any bounds. I wanted to make sure I was not encroaching and placed myself in her position in my mind often. I tried to understand and I vocalized my trying on many occasions but was still attacked. I even thought she would try to place herself in my shoes as well and at times I think she tried and at other times I think she just didn’t care anymore.
The reason I tried to make a schedule is because I was prompted to by our “husband” because she would complain that I was not doing my fair share which is just her being a big baby looking for a complaint. I did most of the cleaning in the house while she sat on the couch but she thought that whenever she felt like cleaning everyone else was supposed to jump up and clean too. Okay, 아니. I am more interested in a routine and I was not going to be subjected to her whims and fancies of “feeling like it.” When I worked full time! Is she crazy? Haha.
I thank you and everyone here so much for continues prayers for my sake. I genuinely do want to provide some insight on polygynous situations with my own testimony. I hope another woman who may find herself headed the same way I went will learn from my experience and prevent making the same foolish mistakes. Ask questions and know exactly what your getting into. I pray young women ask for counseling from your Sheiks with all parties before getting involved instead of after like me.
I will be praying for you as well Ana and Carolinah and Alex. I think you should also be praying for Carolinah too, lol. Hard as it may be, it will make you feel better and Allah will answer. We are to love our neighbors as ourselves even our “enemies.” Prayer changes things! I know first hand!
Peace&Blessings

Salaam Dr. 오마르,

You may want to say I am announcing the discussion of the Prophet Muhammad’s (PBUH) sex life as one of my “taboos.” At the beginning of my comment I stated:“ I know I previously had said we welcome all questions here at Polygamy 411, but I must make an exception. As the moderator of this site, I must interject here and prevent further discussion of the Prophet Muhammad’s (PBUH) intimate moments with his wives.”

I’m beginning to become a bit concerned about what I am reading from you on this blog and I am wondering if we really are on the same page. I have read a lot of name calling of persons. I have heard a lot of belittling of women who have come here to this blog, trying to understand themselves, understand polygamy and find peace. I’m beginning to wonder if you are actually being counterproductive here. I’m certain many women are beginning to second guess themselves again, which adds to lower their self-esteem, which we are (with the permission of Allah) trying to build. You’ve referred to women losing their charms, aging, and being unappealing to their husbands, women petty jealousies, women being stingy, 탐욕스러운, arrogant or whatever, airing dirty laundry and counting jellybeans. 예. You’re right these things exist. But most of the women on this blog already recognize their shortcomings and are trying to come to terms with them, which is probably the main reasons many of them are here, including me. 하지만, what, you just make them feel worst about themselves most of the time, which is terribly wrong. Where is the help? Many of the women the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) married were older women. Many men still love their wives and find them attractive although they’ve age, because their hearts are beautiful. Should women feel bad about aging?

The goal of this blog is to help people overcome their negative characteristics and become better persons. The way you are beginning to approach the subject of polygamy and women, on this blog, is not constructive. Telling us all how wonderful your life and wives are is not helpful. Perhaps you need to look into a better way to communicate with us here. It would help if you communicated with us more in lay terms, 뿐만 아니라.

Dr. Omar and I could use some feedback regarding the above, from all visiting this blog. Please respectfully agree to disagree. All comments are welcome.

Wasalaam,
홈

이것은 오픈 하우스입니다. 필요가 노크. 그냥 들어와.

Salaam to All,
I am Mutmainah, dr Omar’s wife.
Thanks a lot to my husband for inviting me to join this blog. I hope we can learn from each other in this blog.
About myself, I am a happy wife. Thanks Allah for blessed me the willingness to share my happiness in marriage with other woman/women as my co-wives. (Co-wives = co-operative, not competitive in the negative way).

To Shocked:
As a wife, I have choice of being independent thinker. My husband never dictate me. I have my own opinion. (I am not just “yes husband” 아내).

Wassalaam,

Ainah

Salaam Judith,

확인 …. I should have said most, and yes I’m well aware of the polyandry ladies, but this is not within the purview of Islam or pure monotheism, as that is a form of adultery and counterproductive to the purposes of Islamic marriage, which is to establish and extend and reproduce the divine order.

A woman with a spiritual husband is, in essence, commiting spiritual adultery. Sex is not the issue here, but mentorship and authentic “authority” is the issue and submission to her husband as mentor or to her husband’s permission that she have such a teacher and then, that they attend to his lessons together.

Liberterians would take a dim view of this position and declare a form of tyranny, but the position is meant for the sake of Divine order in society and the maintainence of that order in peace and security.

A woman with a spiritual mentor, other than her husband, is very likely to “fall in love” with that person because most likely he will have greater wisdom and ability to understand her. This is one of the typical weaknesses of the female heart. Just as it is for a man to fall in love with a woman who expresses admiration for his work and comprehends its meaning to greater degrees than may his own wife.

This kind of communication between the sexes needs to be guarded, rather than permitted by free association for the sake, not only of modesty, but also reputation. This is why Islam forbids any man who is not the woman’s first degree relative to have time alone with her under the same roof. Lunch with the “boss” is definitely out of the question unless chaperoned.

A bit “Victorian” 나도 알아, but them’s the rules…

As I said in other posts, it is in fact “A man’s World” … and the movement to elevate women to equal status is antithetical to Islam as Allah has decreed Patriarchy to be His Divine Order. All pious Muslims accept this as truth.

Now any woman with intellectual capabilities beyond the reach of the pedestrian testosterone factories seeking her hand in marriage would be wise to match herself to a man of equal of superior intelligence, which in many cases means polygamy, because such men are only 5 – 15 % of any given population, while women of that supeior status (IQ’s greater than 130) are 20- 30 %, which is another reasoin polygamy is permitted in Islam.

Several of the Prophet’s wives were of this caliber.

As for the wife’s obl;igation to service her husband when he calls: I will address this from a medical perspective. The sex drive in a man depends on his level of testosterone, and the degree in which he may be stimulated. Immodest dress on the part of modern women, is a great stimulant, and often drives men to distraction and to the point that they cannot concentrate on their work.

Men are hardwired brainwise to be singleminded, goal oriented one-tract-mind concentrators. And the sexual drives interferes with this ability and drives the man crazy because, although he wants the sex, he wants more to go back to work, because it is a man’s work from which he gets the greatest satisfaction. Not Love or sex … and this is something women need to understand.

그래서 … for many men of less self-control, if the sex urge is not satisfied post-haste when it arises, and if their wife repeatedly says she’s got a head ache, he will be almost overwhelmed by the command of his body to mate and will be more likely to commit fornication or adultery.

This is why Islam commands the wife to attend to her husband’s needs and to do it post-haste.

I had a middle aged couple come to me for se-counsselling some years ago. Complaint was the husband was a pre-ejaculate and could only last about 30 seconds after entry.

I treated him homeopathically nad the wife came back to me 3-4 weeks later with a new complaint. Now he could last from 3-5 minutes, the problem was he wanted it 3-4 times a day. I asked her if that was really so much trouble to give up 30 에 30 minutes of her day to the man who had given her his lfe’s earnings. … she shut up and went home to her husband.

wasalaam,

dr omar

NOT QUITE POLYGAMY.
He lied to her. He told her he was married to me, 이미. When I asked why, 그가 말하길, this is what he feels in his heart. Maybe he was looking for the last ditched effort to salvage their relationship with an emotional outpouring of ‘I will change’ (I understand the marriage has been over for almost 2 1/2 년) They have 1 child together, so we will forever be involved in each other’s lives, if I choose to marry him.

He has asked his first wife for a divorce. She has said no. She wishes to stay married; neglected, (Divorced in every way; except by paper) rather than the stigma of being a Divorced woman in her Village in Cairo, 이집트.
Can this possibly be the mindset of women of this area? He Even says this will reflect very badly on his child among her peers.? Really?

Initially, when we talked of divorce from his wife, he was against it. I am not sure of all of the reasons why. But selfishness on his part was my first thought. She is considerably younger than me, and she would likely want to marry and have a family. She deserved to be in love and love a man with all her heart, rather than be alone. (The evil and untrusting side of me says, he just wanted her for back-up)

I am still undecided in this marriage to him. I think I need to see first hand, that he is in fact, not looking to her as a ‘back up’ 아내. Maybe that is some insecurity on my part. I hear some magnificent stories told by men from time to time. In my profession, I am one of the guys. (I am in a 95%+ male career.)

Before I can go much more with this relationship, I would like to talk with this wife. We will have to communicate I think at some point. Maybe more importantly I want to gain her approval that I am not a bad person for taking her husband. In my mind, I AM Wife # 1.
And if, for some unknown reason I marry, with her still married to him, She becomes Sub-wife. (is there a term for this still married on paper wife?) Who the heck am I kidding – Did I just state that I might consider marrying him while he is still married?
You talk of secret marriages on this BLOG. Here is what I suggested he say to her. Accept the Divorce, but keep it a secret. Then everyone wins. Right???

I am smiling because I love him, but have never felt like I was spinning out of control so much in my life.

Good luck with Harmony in your life!

As salaamu alaykum “All.”

Whew and ma shaa Allah, what a pile of spaghetti this discussion is!

As for Judith’s comment, she is obviously (in my mind) referring to a woman’s communion and time with her Creator as her spiritual husband. 에, for one, totally understand and appreciate that concept. Part time husbands give more time for Islamic study, growth, and improvement of self through introspection and learning.

Dr. 오마르: Nobody really likes hearing others “toot their own horn” regarding their prowess and divulging information on intimate relations. 그것은, to my mind and understanding, bad adhaab (or perhaps akhlaaq), and implies a type of kibr (arrogant pride). It may not be said with such emotion, but for those of us just reading words and not hearing the voice or seeing the face and body language, it can be misconstrued. Insha’Allah, we will all find 70 excuses and call it a day on those comments that didn’t “읽기” well with us.

알리, jazaak Allahu khayran for points well stated and ameen to your dua’.

Zainab, Allah is THE Perfect Planner…so never fear what He brings as it is always for the best and to bring about some good.

홈, I think I’ll find another discussion to comment personally on and leave this one alone, 롤! Take care.

Mai

Salaam To All,

주디스 …. then why didn’t you say so ??? You specifically mentioned the word polyandry in your query, and that has only one connotation. This is one of the problems between men and women. Women say something, give only a percentage of the definition they have in mind, and then expect the man to understand completely what they meant, or even to read their mind. Frankly, this is infuriating.

Tooting my own horn am I? Hmmmm …. thought I was sharing my experience with you. You all seem to like commisserating over the bad news, but when someone comes along and gives the good news of success and says” This is why and this how how I have learned to do it, it is called tooting one’s horn … ??? Hmmmmm….

확인 …. first of all, this is one of the problems in the mis-education of sex. And it is why the early Muslims were very very frank in their discussions of these intimacies, including the discussing of the Prophet’s remarkable abilities, that didn’t need discussing because everyone knew what he was doing, Alhamduillah.

Ok …. 그래서 … you want to be puritan and victorian just like good Catholics and Anglican pseudo-Catholics alright …. so be it.

My heart goes out to Ms. Egyptianloving woman. Please, by all means, go and talk to her. Insh’Allah, grace will follow and abound.

wasalaam,

dr omar

Dr. 오마르, as salaamu alaykum.

No offense to you, I was simply expressing what I could see being construed from some of your statements by other readers.

Although I have read the ahadith about the Prophet’s life and the few relating to his relations with no problem, I personally prefer not to know about anyone else’s private matters. It would appear to be a matter of mixed opinions, whether it is appropriate to make public how often you have intimate relations and how satisfied your partners are. In any case, I understand that you are relating these things to hopefully benefit others.

That said, I am not disputing anything you said and didn’t comment earlier because it isn’t an issue for me. But rather than leave the comments that seem to be attacking you on the subject, I felt it reasonable to interject that the written word “reads” differently to different eyes and minds. 에, personally have faced great messes from being misconstrued through my writing. Allah Knows our intention, our hearts…but other human beings do not.

As for infuriating, 잘…men are from Mars and women are from Venus. We prove that statement and book true every day!

“아내”Dos and EgyptianLovingAmerican,

The two of you certainly have something in common. Both of you are trying to figure out what path to take. It can’t be easy. Both of you have declared you love the men in your lives, but you don’t want the lifestyle of polygamy that seemingly must be accepted along with these men. Of course with you, “아내”의, it’s a little different, as it’s not the lifestyle that’s the problem, but the 1st wife is. I feel like I’m “spinning out of control” thinking about what you both are going through. At least you both are considerate of the 1st wives, which is very important, as you know.

It’s really tough giving suggestions in situations like this, as one doesn’t want to advise wrongly, but what is right or wrong advice? And then I say, 잘, who am I to advise as screwed up as my life has been. 하지만, I’m going to do it anyhow. You love these men, so go for it…”EsposaDos”; see if you could make a go of it again with your husband and his wife. EgyptianLovingAmerican, make arrangements, with the assistance of the man you love, to meet the wife. Both of you take it from there. It’s a good start. If things don’t work, at least you gave it your best shot and can move on. Those are just my thoughts.

이것은 오픈 하우스입니다. 필요가 노크. 그냥 들어와.

Oooops… Judith and Mai, I sent my last comment before finding and approving both your comments that came before mine. I’m terribly sorry that you were offended Judith by Dr. Omar’s comment. I’m sure he will address your concerns when he read your comment. In the interim I again apologize. I ask everyone to let me know publically, privately, or both when something like this happens that offends, or anything at all needs to be addressed. 감사합니다, 주디스.

이것은 오픈 하우스입니다. 필요가 노크. 그냥 들어와.

Salaam Mai,

Thanks …. very much … body language adds a lot to communication. as a matter of fact, without exageration, it is greater than 50% of the activity and meesages.

That’s why detectives are so good at their job… even better than psychiatrists in many instances.

A matter of taste? … well yes, of course it is, but this is a forum about marriage, and a major part of the problem between men and women is their not understanding this essential activity as part of our core identity as humans.

Because it is not addressed frankly, and often because people are “offended”, a lot of us get the information from the wrong sources with the wrong intent and completely lacking in wisdom.

The problem is MAJOR, and is often why men take another wife …. not just because they are greedy.

As a matter of fact, i could say that had things worked out between me and a previous wife at a different level, I probably would never have seriously considered polygamy for sexual satisfaction at all, unless it was brought to my attention to marry another lady for her protection and benefit. As I was totally and completely gratified by that woman. Too bad she was a paranoid personality Type A … The psychiatrist who studied our case informed me I was fortunate she didn’t kill me in my sleep and think she was doing God a favor.

And Please brother Ali, don’t get any ideas!! eh eh …

Wasalaam,

dr omar

Dear Judith,

Thank you for sharing more about you. Now I understand the connection. Up until today, I was still wondering what you were all about. I thought you were here on the blog doing some type of research or something. Now I know and can appreciate your line of questioning.

I’m truly glad the blog has helped you. You have helped me by joining us here and commenting. Don’t worry about throwing the blog off course. If we get too far off, we could always get back: It’s no problem.

It is so amazing that you came across a copy of the Holy Quran in your personal library. I could see you reading some of it and saying, so that is what they were talking about

이것은 오픈 하우스입니다. 필요가 노크. 그냥 들어와.

Islam Ana,
I understand better your basis for seeing the semblance of a mockery of Islam being made in the case of Carolinah now that you explain it. I feel as though I may know some of what Carolinah is going through having been someone who was introduced to Islam by my “husband” as well. I feel like she should not have taken her Shahadah if she was not ready to truly practice Islam for her self and not a man. My husband wanted me to accept Islam after he was proclaiming to be my husband and it was not fair to me to do that. –I did eventually accept and love Islam, for him but for myself as well. Carolinah is missing the point of Shahadah, I agree and she should have been counseled better and more learned and confident in Islam before moving forward in that way.
For me Islam and Moslem may take on different meanings than with others. Mono + (sl’m)Salaam = one of peace =Moslem. Isa had always greeted everyone as a Moslem saying “Peace be with you” I even learned this in church from the beginning, so to me Islam became the thing that Isa did, I was following Yeshoua’s example to call myself one of peace and act accordingly as Islam has always been his teaching. This reasoning pattern may help Carolinah better understand and accept what is her own if she is Christian. In Islam we are instructed to read and believe on the former books and this will help her to be all the better a Moslem if this is her background.
It is hard to transition when you have been under a different spiritual teaching well into your wombanity, so be patient with her and continue to reason with her and show Allah’s love is inviting. What is important as it was for me is realizing that they are One like Allah and that Islam will be the regression to what is natural to her and is what the Ingyl teaches. I believe that Carolinah took Shahadah because of the pressure from Alex without really having instruction in Islam. She needs a teacher, 지도. Maybe you can send her a copy of the Koran as a gift to help break ice and point to some important Surah.
In my opinion Alex is out of order by trying to hide his marriage to Carolinah in front of everyone and omitting the fact of his marriage to you in front of Carolinah’s family. My family knew what I was getting myself into to an extent, they were not happy with it, but they accepted this as my life path. My father however was not pleased with my husband’s lack of resources and my having to return home. So now its like an unspoken “told you so” with them and “where you go I go, and where you rest I rest” marriage lectures from them. –LoL.
In my opinion in the case of the double secret marriages and such, both Alex and Carolinah make a mockery of Islam and she does so because she has him giving an example of it. He seems to be attempting to keep you both happy without addressing the real issues.
Please forgive my ignorance but how should a Moslem woman be at a funeral? Or is it just the uncovered part you are referring to? Was her clothing revealing or was it that she did not wear full hijab? Does hijab make or negate the Islamic status of a woman?
Although there is no indication that she is a Moslem, is it necessary that she be a Moslem for her marriage with Alex to be valid in Islam? I thought that Moslem men are permitted to marry “chaste women of the book” and ‘forbidden to marry the pagans.’
“Islam should be accepted to serve and worship Allah.” Yes, I agree with you as I was saying earlier, she should not have just accepted Islam because Alex pressured her.
So far as legal and illegitimate wives go, I can say that I think Carolinah should not have married Alex with him having a “legal” wife without having met with you before moving forward. She has put herself in a bad position. In my opinion in a polygynous marriage no wife should be legally married by the state as it is unfair to the other wives involved. An Islamic marital contract, nikah, should suffice for all women and they will hold up in a US court of law that the man is obligated to each woman to the extent of the agreed terms— a luxury I never was afforded, but have studied a little.
Maybe if you cannot make pray for Carolinah, understandably so, you should pray for love for her to manifest in your heart and for love for you to manifest in hers. And the genuine prayers may come after there is real love for thy enemy, thy neighbor, thy sister as thyself. I will pray for this for you.
As for my situation, I still am at a standstill. I have stood still and done nothing but pray on the situation while trying to rationalize it. A part of me would like to return to them and another part of me feels like it will be a mistake, like they have had too much of my life. He has forgiven me for the extra situation and would like my swift return but has also agreed to let me go in peace if I cannot be happy with him. I am thinking and praying on it everyday and I do miss and love him. I believe in spiritual marriage made by Allah and I believe that even if I leave my spirit will still be tangled with his although we did not do any of the earthly procedures correctly we were connected before he ever said two words to me. They are about an hour away still living with his mother and she has made it clear that I am not welcomed there as she does not believe in polygyny and thinks that I am a home wrecker. She even instigated an argument between #1 and myself on more than one occasion. She supported #1’s unIslamic behavior towards me. I am so grateful for your prayers and duahs and I will continue to life you, 알렉스, and Carolinah in prayer. I will continue to chant unto Allah for you.
Peace+Blessings

and As Salaamu Alaikum to you dr.Omar.

Salaam Esposa Dos,

Thank you for the question. Without going into the extensive details, I will attempt an abridged answer.

Let me first say however, that in my opinion from what little I’ve learned about your circumstances, your marriage is not marriage to the best of my ability to judge. Though your aspirations are pious and indeed acceptable.

I would advise you to seek refuge in Allah from you “남편” and his #1 lady and her family, as well as the jinn assigned to plague you in this matter and keep you attached to them. After such a prayer, you will be set free to proceed with your life.

지금… as for my #1, Ainah. I knew before I married her that I would practice polygamy. I informed her of the intention and the reasons why. We met online and corresponded some 18 months before Allah made it possible for us to marry. At the time, I was a new convert who had lost everything I had in order to make the hijra. 난 그냥 55 and had to start my life over in a strange land as a pauper.

Eventually, we married, and I took another wife. At first Ainah objected, not in principle, but because of petty jealousies and suspicions as it was a new experience for them both, even though I’d informed her. The two women had no opportunity to meet until after I had married #2. After a few awkward encounters, they became friends and eventually went shopping together etc. 그러나, later this #2 drifted away because circumstances did not permit us to live in the same city. I then took a job that removed me even further.

#2 and I made arrangements for her to come and visit with intentions for her to later re-locate there with me and ainah. Three times I sent her funds and made arrangements for the journey and announced her coming to my friends, and three times she failed to show up without notification or explanation.

After the third insult, I divorced her. Ainah actually wept, because she had come to love her. That’s the short version.

지금 … a year after that (Dec 2009) Zaida, my present #2 found me online. After the third chat session she asked me to marry her. I explained the conditions which included conversion, she accepted, and then I informed ainah who was away visiting her family and recovering from the birth of our first baby. She and Zaida met online on several occassions, and Ainah gave her the third degree, because by then Ainah had a mistrust for Thai women.

However, Zaida passed the exam, and Ainah accepted her … even so, Zaida was very concerned about Ainah being jealous, because she knew I preferred her as a bedmate. However, that never arose as an issue, and after a few weeks of living together, both ladies were so gracious towards each other, they were surprised even themselves at how well they got along and were able to share me without constraints.

지금 … that’s the short version. I took very careful steps to inform each woman of my concerns, and inform them of possible problems, etc etc etc during many many intimate conversations seperately. I have never discussed our marriage with them both together except to instruct them as to it’s importance as a tool for Dakwah.

I also took great care to explain exactly why i loved each of them and why i would never abandon either one or replace either one even if I took a third wife. This required many repetitions of the same themes until finally each woman was convinced of my sincerity and dedication to them both, collectively and independently.

Another thing is that I take great care to go out publicly together with them and not to defer to one over the other. Once, at a party, I took a piece of cake to #2. Everyone watched. A lady sitting next to #1 said “look what you husband is doing.” #1 said, “Wait, not only will he bring me the cake, but he will feed it too me as well.” (She was nursing our baby at the time). And this I did as #2 looked on and smiled and all the other women gazed in amazement and envy because their “oriental” chauvinist husbands would never stoop so low as to feed his wife publicly, especially in site of other women and his second wife as well.

지금. You must ask what is it that gives these women such confidence?