Marry a Pakistani Man? Beware!

bewareMany Pakistani men come to the United States or the United Kingdom in search of a better life. To get it, some seek out a wife in said countries. I will use the word “foreign” when I speak of the women or wives from the U.S. and the U.K. The Pakistani men seem kind, sweet, charming and debonair. Little do some foreign women know that these men have snares. A foreign wife could find herself spun in a web of deception. Some Pakistani men are deceitful. Women especially from the United States and the United Kingdom should beware when it comes to marrying Pakistani men.

Polygamy 411 is a blog about polygamy. The blog has existed for over four years. A large percentage of our commentators from the U.S or U.K. married Pakistani men. We have learned that when some of these Pakistani men marry foreign women, the men do not let these women know they already have wives and probably children in Pakistan. They are already married and their other marriage to the foreign women makes these Pakistani men polygamous. Sometimes these men never take the foreign wife to Pakistan to meet their family, relatives and friends there. Many times those people in Pakistan never know of the wife in the U.S. or the U.K. The foreign wife becomes a “secret wife.” More often than not, the Pakistani man is married to his first cousin. They had an “arranged marriage.”

A foreign woman who considers a Pakistani man for marriage should beware that he may one day say he must go back to Pakistan to marry his first cousin as instructed by his mother. He gives the foreign wife excuses as to why he cannot defy his mother. The reason is cultural, but he may allude that it has to do with Islam when it does not. When the foreign wife learns of the arranged marriage between her husband and his first cousin, she becomes distraught. What should she do? She has already become emotionally invested, and has established a life with this man. She is left with a huge dilemma, which is extremely difficult and painful to resolve.

Why do these Pakistani men do this to foreign women? Many do it to get citizenship/naturalization/Immigration status in the U.S. or U.K. They want a better life for themselves and their families back home in Pakistan. Some actually come to fall in love with the foreign women whom they marry. Others do not. They simply get the immigration status they sought, and then divorce the foreign women.

Any foreign woman who marries a Pakistani male should beware of the lies, deceit, and betrayal that may await them. A foreign woman should investigate thoroughly the Pakistani man she intends to marry. She should make sure she meet his family, relatives and friends in Pakistan. She should ask him if he is already married or if his family has arranged a marriage for him to take place in the future. She should secure her assets, for instance, keep her funds separate from his, or have a prenuptial agreement. Most importantly she should act intelligently, not emotionally. These men are very suave and convincing.

I in no way assert that every Pakistani man is as I described above. I simply want you to note that based on all the information I have received on this blog, I have learned there are very many Pakistani men who have done all that I indicated above. We all know nothing is absolute except our Creator. I simply urge all women to beware when they consider a marriage to a Pakistani Man.beware

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

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524 Comments

  • ana

    April 21, 2014

    jamal magsi,

    Would you be more specific? What about the comments make you Vomit in paper bag ?

    Do you know anyone personally from Pakistan? Before reading the post, had you heard of a problem that exists with men from Pakistan who “use” women from the U.S or U.K to better their financial/material position in life? Is the situation new to you? Do you want to puke because the comments make you sympathetic to the women who encountered situations with Pakistani men that have hurt them or caused them pain? Are you Pakistani? Perhaps you could elaborate more, so we’d understand better what about the comments sickened you.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • jamal magsi

    April 21, 2014

    Wow if being from Pakistan makes you evil then standing in a garage makes you a car.
    your original post is fine but reading the comments make me puke.

  • maryam

    April 16, 2014

    Hi Jenny,

    Saad will be relieved to hear a positive story about a Pakistani man I’m sure!

    His happiness won’t last long if you tell him how your husband treated his first Pakistani wife.

    Didn’t he marry a Pakistani cousin with no intention of ever living with her or bringing her to his home in America? He wanted nothing to do with her (apart from having kids) from what you said?

    You have said your husband has high expectations for your Jewish daughter, but he expects nothing to come of his Pakistani daughter except an arranged marriage?

    I get that with you he is amazing. To his first Pakistani wife he is probably something far from amazing.

    I guess that is life, we are different things to different people.

  • ana

    April 15, 2014

    Jenny,

    How do you know your husband isn’t one of those very cleaver, smooth talking, suave, charming, sweet talking conniving, convincing, scheming, lying, deceitful, Pakistani con men that so many here on this blog speak of? Your husband is living a lavish, posh, extravagant life with you – the type of life Pakistani men dream of. Your husband’s dream has come true. So what, all the bank accounts, real estate etc are in your name and he has nothing but lunch money and a clean pair of underwear every day, so you say. He is still living the life that he wants, driving the Bentley and showboating. It doesn’t stop him from living large. No one ever knows what is truly in a persons heart wholeheartedly except Allah.

    What I hear those Pakistani men are some good actors. Some of them probably could win an Academy Award…

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Jenny

    April 15, 2014

    @ Saad,

    I will be the lone voice here and say I am so blissfully happy with my Pakistani husband!!! We have been married a very long time and have four babies (two sets of twins) and trying for more. I’m Jewish and my husband defines himself (like you) as a Muslim (which is a very controversial statement here), but we make it work and religion has NEVER been an issue.

    With my business, I have darn near 600 Pakistani employees, and yes, there is some merit to what is said here; but like you said, the women can marry caucasian men.

    Hubby has always been honest with me, never caught him in any lies, and treats me like the pretty, pretty princess (that’s what my oldest son says) and as I sit here, I can’t think of anything he could do to be a better husband to me, except put the toilet seat down! lol

  • ana

    April 15, 2014

    Saad,

    Your last post was way good! We will entertain discussion on it, as it is on topic.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • saad

    April 15, 2014

    Ana
    i am done here thanks.

  • saad

    April 15, 2014

    Alijah
    We are all human beings (for arguments sake let me include pakistanis in it too), so we have both good and bad sides.
    your paki guy might be in love with you and you may be feeling good about him, so for now emotions are running high.
    but the moment you are exposed to his dark side (which every one has)and what ever you are learning from this blog about paki men being the scum of the earth, you will despise him thinking
    “i knew it, this is what gail and others warned me about, and now THE PAKI is showing his true colors”.
    judging from your posts below in which you said “i will tape his conversations with his friends, and then ask people to translate it from me (bringing his laundry to public)” i am feeling for that poor guy, because if he find out he will have an heart attack. so my advice is:
    Find a nice caucasian guy for God’s sake.(personally i don’t get why would any women prefer a paki over an american etc., if not for a fetish of cross-cultural thing). Being realistic:
    1.caucasian will be way more good looking than your pakistani guy.
    2.he will understand you better.
    3.he will give you the respect you deserve.
    4.you will not have to be F.B.I, monitoring his every day activities and recording his personal conversations with friends.
    5.you will not have to deal with cultural and religious issues.
    6.you will not have to deal with all the in laws and The Drama.

    and god willing we will not be having another paki hater after 2 or 3 years.

  • ana

    April 15, 2014

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Peace to All,

    @Saad & Everyone,

    I think we’ve devoted enough time to discussing with Saad his beliefs or lack of belief in God and religion, his views on Pakistan and other countries, science, technology, education etc. It’s time for us to get back to discussions about polygamy and Pakistani men or simply polygamy.

    Saad, thank you for sharing your views with us by commenting. If you should find yourself in a polygamous situation, feel free to join us in discussions here. happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • saad

    April 15, 2014

    Marie.
    * i dont need a god to tell me that cheating, murdering,raping and lying is wrong. people who don’t believe in God believe in these basic moral values. so by not honoring these values does not mean you are turning away from god but from your humanity.

    *why is that a “mental impossibility”? guess you have not met any Atheist in your life.

    *As far as Islam is concerned i am ‘living on the edge’. i was born in a muslim family, i don’t know if i am muslim or not, i yet have to think on it or may be i don’t care.

    *Why i am here and what i am trying to achieve? do i owe you an explanation? never mind i will give you one. you said i don’t appear to be a muslim and i am not here for a marriage right but i am a Pakistani, and you are discussing about Pakistanis so this is what i am doing ‘talking to people’.

    *because they did not worked hard,lagged in the scientific progress and grew weak both socially and morally. and their is survival of the fittest, so they ended up sc***d.

    *by Arabs i was not referring to you rather i was referring to the people you revere and they are Companions of your Prophet who turned this world upside down. pillaged and plundered Persia. (i am Sorry if i am disparaging your religious sensitivities, this is not my intention, sorry again).

  • marie

    April 15, 2014

    @saad all the things you mentioned about why pakistan is in such a bad state. Cheating, consuming interest, lying ect. Is turning your back on Allah as theses are the things Allah tell you not to do. Islam us a way of life.

    You sound as if you have some kind of intelligence, but yet you say things like ‘imaginary diety’ I’m taking a guess that you don’t believe in God/creator. Which is a mental impossibility.

    Your clearly not here for polygamy, you don’t appear to be Muslim and you haven’t come for the sister/brother hood. Why are you here Saad. What are you trying to achieve.

    By the way I wasn’t taking about the rise and fall of one nation it was many. They was very advanced. Do you have a good reason for why an entire people who were once ‘top dogs’ became oppressed slaves. Did they all of sudden become stupid. I think not.

    Also I think you implied that was Arab. No far from it their are no Arabs in my background, as far as I know

  • Alijiah

    April 15, 2014

    Hi Gail, spirited, and everybody on the blog!

    you ladies and gents are all an amazing lot!

    Thank you so much to Gail for being like a mother to me at this stage happy

    and to saad, who says things that i can relate to, although he is very frank, i respect that.

    Thank you Ana of course! you are amazing and this blog is your home. I read a little about your story, and to be honest I have so much respect for you dear lady <3

    I looked around at other blogs on this topic of white girls dating Paki muslim boys. things look rather bleek all right.. i never would have thought that this could be such a disaster thing to be honest..

    Oh, spirited, we don't really date to be honest. I would not do that yet, as i do have a partner back in my own country too… but as i said our relationship is difficult because of the distance and other things…

    the thing is that i will not commit to date him or anything as long as we work together anyway.. this would be a super serious thing.

    for now we enjoy flirting, although he wants to get more serious but i am still not sure. the thing is that white male do the same, you know: use women for money, status or sex… so no game changer really.. and i had a few of those already a few years ago.

    in contrast to the white men, this Pakistani man is very refreshing, sincere, honest and pure. I do see him trying to pull away from me, even when he thinks i am not watching him with the corner of my eyes, or through my hair. he holds it together, trying not to come to me, and stare at me all the time. i do trust his feelings for now, but as Gail said, what about later?

    so i think that as we have no choice but wait a few years, when one of us finishes work there, it is going to be a good opportunity for me to suss things with him and his family.

    the ultimate test and a sure winner is will him and his family accept me not converting or him giving up Islam for me… and there will be no getting close and comfy before those questions are answered.

    I thought that because he grew up in Europe his ideas would not be as conservative towards Islam, but i do know his parents are devoted to Islam, especially his mother. I did speak to her, and she did make it VERY clear that only if i convert would she consider me, and money and status mean nothing to her.

    so, it looks like i have to negociate with her for her terms, before considering anything serious with him.

    i do wish to reassure everybody on the blog, we are not dating (he just finds excuses to be around me in work all the time and to talk to me for a few months, and he also made his feelings for me very clear directly and undirectly.
    so like any other muslim woman, i will have to play it cool and think ! happy

  • saad

    April 15, 2014

    Gail that’s true. majority of pakis want to leave pakistan. as a whole we are one of the most corrupt societies and you can judge it from our ruling elite, last month 60 children died of hunger in a village of Sindh (one of Pakistan’s province). On the other hand our ruling elite has such a lavish life style and are undoubtedly the most corrupt leaders in the world. same goes to our common people, they are corrupt too. more over all the rich people are ashamed of their pakistani background, but they can’t do any thing about it(can’t change their DNA).

    i don’t know why i get angry when i see every body lashing out on my Pakistan(to be honest we deserve it), maybe because i love my country. i get frustrated when i see so many problems in my society. every body is complaining. people who live in pakistan are complaining, overseas pakistani’s are complaining. but nobody is there to take stand for a change.

    There are people like spirited who say they do like the country and i am left wondering, what actually they like about Pakistan? its climate? its geography? deserts? mountains? because Pakistan is just a piece of land and does not mean anything if exclude pakis. when they hate its people what actually they like? or maybe they do like to joke often?

    only way forward for my nation is education. And education will set them free.

    In short it is not easy being a Pakistani.

  • Gail

    April 15, 2014

    Saad,
    One last thing I would like to point out.I have very prestigious family members in Pakistan.
    One of my brother inlaws is top Cardiologist at CMH Hospital and according to Pakistani standards he is very very wealthy.Has a beautiful home in DHA Islamabad and owns alot of stuff and is a really wonderful person to know.He has 4 kids and all are going to study to be doctors.Now here is the kicker.I have flat told him to educate his children in USA for Specialty fields is very expensive and I doubt he can afford so much and at the very least it will be a huge strain on him so why do this?is answer to me was that there is no life surety in Pakistan anymore and knowing his son might end up working a business in USA is better to him than remaining in Pakistan.
    My sister inlaw husbands father was an advisor to one of Pakistan President.They are beyond RICH compared to Pakistani standards.My sister inlaw lives in a very huge Mansion very very beautiful and has everything she could wish for.Guess what still they r dying to come sit with me in USA.
    My husband has beautiful homes in Pakistan and alot of commercial real estate.So much so we can retire today in Pakistan and we would never have to work the rest of our lives or are children would never have to work just collect rents from our properties but instead we live in a 2 bedroom old trailer and drive ice cream trucks and older vehicles(my newest car just a 2006)simply because we know we have Paki to fall back on in future if we need but hubby wants keep working and saving and make it here in USA.Anyway I just wanted to point out to u if Rich Pakis want out then u know the poor ones are also dying to get out.To me it is not good.They should stay and fight and change the country.

  • saad

    April 15, 2014

    Gail the way you speak reflects your failed relationship with your husband. anyways if you have not heard it from anyone than open your ears and i am saying it loud and clear. AFTER COMPLETING MY M.S I WILL RETURN BACK TO PAKISTAN. my close relatives have been living in Oslo from past 25 years. i just wish you had married somebody from your own race so you will not be having it out on my people. Anyways you are doing a great job in educating your sisters. Good Luck

  • Gail

    April 15, 2014

    Saad,
    I also wanted u to know that I am just not speaking to be speaking on the blog about Pakistani men using foreign woman.I actually have lived in Pakistani in Rawalpindi off and on for the last 11 yrs.I have lived in Rawalpindi for years at a time so I have a very good understanding of the culture and the people and their mentality.Every single family that I have witnessed without exception dreams and wishes to send their sons outside Pakistan to make more money.You know it and I know it.The Sons are more than happy to leave Pakistan so they don’t have their family ruling on them.These r just facts I have seen.I have told my husband in a very abusive verbal way in the past that until your men stop wanting to leave the country and stay home and fight to make Pakistan a better country then it is never going to come up.
    Saad even with you what was the first thing out of your mouth? You desire to leave your country to go study abroad.My point is this is the clear mentality of every Pakistani even if u do not see it yourself.Please do not use the excuse that foreign education is better because I don’t buy it.You want a better education so it gives u a better chance of getting out of Pakistan.I have yet to here one person say Hey I am going to study abroad and go back to Pakistan and make it better for the next generation.Nope have yet to hear that one.Instead what I hear is Pakistan is to corrupt and it will take 100 more yrs before it will come up or Pakistan will never come up it is lost cause.Either way problem is same everyone wants out of Pakistan to earn more money.

  • Gail

    April 15, 2014

    Alijah,
    Girl I read your post about your views of love and marriage and I really think u r in for a very hard thump on the head later on if u don’t get your head out of the clouds and come back to reality.You version of love is the female version of love and that love last about year with a couple.I am curious do u think love stays on a high your entire life?Trust me if it did we would not have so many cheaters esp.. men who cheat.Your version of love sounds wonderful but it is sooo not reality.Keep in your mind that their area lot of factors that make a person get up out of bed and feel different everyday.
    Let me ask u this if your dear lovely sweet boyfriend now later on down the line came to you after marriage and said this whole love thing has been great I want to marry and take another wife then what?Will u believe he still loves you more than the moon and the stars or will u want to go for his juggler vein?
    I am bringing this to your attention because I used to think the same way u are thinking now and I see all the signs of u getting into a huge mess.You thinking is so western and if u keep with this mentality I a pretty certain down the line one day u are going to wake see reality for what it is and say to yourself dang I sure was stupid.
    When u r picking a mate you obviously need to be physically attracted to that person.You need to also look and see if u have the same background and morals,ethics,etc… What about financial matters does he believe everything goes in his name or will he be ok with 50/50.As spirited mentioned with children will u be ok to raise your children muslim if he acts like a horses A$$ and demands it? In my case my husband did not demand it but I flat told him before marriage I am never accepting Islam.I made it very clear before we married but he still tried to badger me for awhile until i flat one day told him stop with the little facts about Islam being better than Christianity or Judaism it does nothing for me your beating a dead horse on that topic.He just laughed and said he likes to joke with me after that we joke around.So I am lucky in that respect but most woman are not.
    My husband was 30 when we married and I was 31 when we married.I would consider that to the perfect age range if u really want to make it work long term.When u r under 30 u just are not mature enough to see the bumby road ahead and u do not have enough life experience yet to dodge the potholes in the road.What I mean by that is younger men esp… after marriage get a big head and try to rule on their wives because of their immaturity I feel.Now u compound that with the couples being a different culture and religions it makes for a very rocky and bumby road.I am not saying mix marriages are horrible and should not be done but u must have the right mentality if u r going to actually consider to do it.For the sake of your future children think very carefully and go visit his family ask them straight to their face if they are going to accept you.Tell them u do not accept polygamy ever.Tell them straight your deal breakers when the time comes.Above all if he is not a citizen of the country u r in u better figure out where he plans on living long term.Bottom line keep the upper hand.If u give him everything then don’t cry later if he does wrong with you.Never forget to play smart for the sake of your future children is my advice.

  • saad

    April 15, 2014

    marie! rise and fall does not depend upon believing in an imaginary deity.

    This world is a place where harnessing potentials produce results. These potentials can be harnessed mostly by having skill and expertise in scientific disciplines. It is this skill through which man can access the treasures which are concealed in the heavens and the earth. History bears witness that the life and death of man is mostly dependent on the competence he has in these disciplines, what to speak of rise and fall of nations. From the discovery of fire to the invention of the wheel to the astounding advancement and developments of the modern era this fact can be read in every page of history.

    secondly moral fabric of a society is THE indicator, if the society is progressing or not. for example JUSTICE is a moral value.
    Muslims have shown an utter indifference to their moral instruction. Reasons for the downfall of muslims are lying, dishonesty, embezzlement, theft, fraud, adulteration, devouring of interest, deceit in weighing, false accusations, breaking promises, involvement in occult disciplines, labeling one another with disbelief and defiance. not because they turned their backs on “ALLAH”.

    All the great empires like Persian, Roman and greeks none of them believed in “ALLAH”. they were great because moral fabric of their society was strong, because of which their was justice peace and tranquility. and number two because they were scientifically advance and ahead of their age. Persia was a great empire before your ARAB Brutes came and destroyed it. that was the gift of your ISLAM to the world.

    i wish someday Pakistanis realize that this religion is not doing any good to them, stop thinking about bringing Khilafah and so called “Muslim UMMAH” and start focusing on education and work for democracy, then maybe their situation will change.

  • ana

    April 15, 2014

    marie, As Salaamu Alaikum,

    Well said! happy I’m glad you chimed in on the off topic, and offered up some historical facts to support why the conditions of our brothers and sisters in faith are as they are today. thumbs up.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • marie

    April 15, 2014

    Saad I too used to try and get the message across to anyone and everyone about the horrors that are happening in. Other countries, I’d try to open people’s eyes to the hidden agendas (you touched on the natural resources the middle east has) I then realised that instead of talking to brick walls and arguing till I’m blue in face, the best thing I can do is make dua fro them that one day they will worship Allah they way the should and then Allah will do as He said and change their condition. I too hurt and feel pain when I see and hear of the horrible things that are happening to men, woman and children. But here the thing. The non believers (UK and US governments) will get their punishments in the hereafter if they do not repent. Leave it to Allah and make dua for your people. Knowledge is nothing without Action. Iblis (satan) has knowledge but still he is going to hell fire because he didn’t bow down when ordered, sorry to say but no matter how much science people learn it will not benefit them unless they obey.

  • marie

    April 15, 2014

    Asalaamu Alaykum All,

    I’d like to chime in here, it may seem off topic but I do have a point. I’d agree with Ana that if a nation (muslims) turn their backs on Allah they will suffer the conciqences. All you have to do is look at history.

    Saad I’d like to ask you a question, or a few, history tells us that at some point non white people ‘ruled the world’ the mayans,egyptions and Chinese ect were the riches and most intelligent people on earth, they built pyramids,invented the alphabet numbers, calenders lived and built home in the mountain were it would seem no one could live and much much more. They did all this with the help and permission of Allah. No doubt they had science, intelligence and money. So how come this nation (non white) became the poorest, down trodden people we know of today. How did a people who once had power, riches, intelligence,science and all the rest become slaves and victims of their own people. I’ll tell you how, because they decided to worship fails idols (this is obvious from the statues and documentation that we have found today) they turned their backs on Allah. The One who gave them all they had. I can’t render the exact ayat but Allah says if you do not worship Him and Him alone He will cause the ones who no nothing of him to rule over the ones who do know of Him and still worship something besides Him. Still to this day Caucasians are “running things” and still to this day non but a few have turn back to Allah, asked for his forgiveness. Arabs, Africans, Pakistanis, Palestinian will remain in this situation until they do what Allah has told them to. Allah will not change the condition of a people till they change what’s in their hearts. Clear their heart are right where they was all them years ago

  • ana

    April 14, 2014

    Allie,

    That was an AWESOME post you wrote to Saad. About the tree and the concrete, I never heard anything like it before, WOW. Keep writing. I’m listening and learning from you. Alhumdulliah!!!

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    April 14, 2014

    @Saad,

    I think you don’t understand me. I am one to always say Muslims are all one brotherhood. I am Muslim. Allah says don’t divide ourselves into sects. I don’t identify with any sect, as there shouldn’t be any. All Muslims are my brothers and sisters.

    The only reason I say Muslims deserve what they get is because Allah is a Just God and he rewards people and punishes people according to what they earn. He holds us accountable. Allah says he will not change the condition of a person until he or she changes what is in his or her heart. Very few people follow or believe in what Allah says. You don’t believe in Islam any longer, so there is no need for me to continue to talk with you about it.

    Saad, you are absolutely correct. I deserve everything that has ever happened to me, everything that is happening to me currently, and everything that will happen to me in the future. I never said I didn’t. The more my faith increases and the more I try to worship and obey Allah, the better my life gets. I have trials and tests, but they only make me stronger and a better Muslim.

    You are very young and you have a lot of potential. You just have to get your head on straight. Allah swt created science, technology and everything in the heavens, earth and between. He teaches. Keep thinking you don’t need Allah and you will find yourself with nothing of substance. Although you are young, this world is short, so don’t think you’ve got plenty of time.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Alijah

    April 14, 2014

    Hi saad, thank you for including me in the conversation!
    I do agree with ana, the Osamah bin Ladin being killed in Pakistan was just a big publicity stunt if you ask me…
    and in fact I do true my guy a lot more that you may think, but at the same time, i want to know more about his culture, country, etc… so that if we are really gonna want to live together, i know what may be coming my way…
    I do adore the man in fact and it sure feel like this is the first man that actually truly loves me among all the men that i have enjoyed in my life if I am to be sincere here.
    My friend is kind, helpful to me and my work in many ways, loving, caring, we have a special connection that goes beyond the material world of apparences, religions, cultures, expectations, etc.
    .. i would say that it is a sacred bound that knows no limit, race, culture, religion, and this is why it makes it a beautiful journey for me and for him also. A journey of love, discovery, kindness with both of us being open minded about each others’ culture and beliefs.
    Since we have grown close he has opened up so much to me, but also to others in work, he has matured, grown up, learnt to trust us, and me in particular, and i have come to trust him.

    @maryam, “my” guy does not have siblings as far as i know… but good point! thank you!

    @spirited: thank you so much for the reminder about the children… i see your point, in fact i would never agree to any daughter of mine being told that she is any lesser worth than any man, and that she had to accept sharing her husband with others.
    I view marriage as a sacred ceremony, where the couple truly becomes one, and any transgression from that is lust, depravation and vilated that holy temple that the human body is.
    I will also never accept my son to be told that he can use women as sexual pleasure objects.
    However those tpye of views are present in most religions, which is the reason that i would never consider myself to be a religious person, but a spiritual one.
    In short: the children will follow their own path in life and will not be victims of any kind of endocrtination/ brain washing from a very young age.
    They need to be old and mature enough to understand religion and spirituality, something that can not be achieved before a certain age and according to their own life choices and path.
    Blessings to all. <3

  • saad

    April 14, 2014

    Allie this blog is open for everybody and everyone is welcomed here, this is what ana told me.
    anyways there is no point prolonging this discussion, i got your point and i am ending it here.

  • Allie

    April 14, 2014

    Saad,

    It looks like you’re taking your anger out on the wrong people. Reality check time: this blog is about polygyny. Fact: Many of the women here for support have married Pakistani men. Fact: Many of those women later found out what they thought was marriage based on mutual love and respect was really a CALCULATED and UNDERHANDED trick to gain what they want (US/UK citizenship, more money, etc). I think you need to really understand nobody here is saying 100% of all Pakistani men are doing this. Maybe all the good Pakistani men are staying in Pakistan and only the garbage is being exported? Or maybe it’s that the good ones that come aren’t hurting anyone else so there’s no need to write about it but the bad seeds …well..sh*t stinks, no use pretending otherwise. And these bad seeds tend to insert themselves and wreck other peoples lives. Here’s what I mean…a seed that grows into a tree is fine when it’s in soil but if it’s in the middle of a sidewalk, what is it doing? It’s breaking up the concrete and makes it really difficult to move around. At a certain point it has to be addressed. That’s what this post is about. Also please keep in mind that many of the women here were DUPED into polygyny without their knowledge. Take up your ire against YOUR COUNTRYMEN WHO ARE CAUSING THIS PROBLEM, not their victims.

    FYI, countries in asia and the middle east are not the only ones that have had forceful intervention on the part of the American government. My country has actually had the government toppled and replaced multiple times directly due to actions sanctioned by the United States government and even had an American installed as president at one point. However, THIS IS NOT RELEVANT TO THE BLOG. I’m pretty sure Ana is not secretly Obama when she’s not posting. What do you hope to gain from venting here? Be the change you want to see. Get involved in organizations pushing for better schooling, etc. Hashing it out on a support blog for women in polygyny is pretty cheap behaviour.

  • saad

    April 14, 2014

    ana i never said that. USA is a great place. thats why every body wants to live there.
    moreover your Quran also says that Muslim is a brother of muslim.
    innocent muslims are being killed every where and you think they deserve this then you are a horrible person.
    you and your friends here deserved what ever bad happened to them.
    you have been deceived by a paki? well you deserved that.
    you had hard time in relationship? you deserved that.
    CHEERS for whatever bad you face in future.

  • saad

    April 14, 2014

    Gail! okay i understand that.
    what about your friends who have married within your own race? are they all happy? is their life smooth and easy? are there evil and selfish whites who use people(women) for their benefit. too many questions lol

  • ana

    April 14, 2014

    Saad,

    You and the masses of Muslims are in the predicament that you are in because you don’t have Islam (Allah swt and His word – Quran). They have relied on other books (Hadiths) such as the one you just quoted from. People in Pakistan apparently like many other Muslims are steep in culture and Hadiths. Jenny may be correct; it probably is a rare find for anyone over there in your country to own a Quran let alone ever have read anything from the Quran other than Al Fatihad. No wonder Allah isn’t coming through for them.

    I don’t side with the Americans or anyone, but right. Islam – Allah is right. Americans are doing exactly what Allah has decreed for them to do and Pakistani’s are doing exactly what Allah has decreed for them to do. Allah is a Just God and everyone is getting their due.

    The United States do not prevent me from worshiping Allah. There is freedom of religion here. I can eat the halal foods I’m supposed to eat; dress modestly the way I’m supposed to; fast; offer my salats; work outside the home, if I want to; own a business if Allah decrees it for me; drive a vehicle unlike in some countries that forbid women to drive; and report a crime that happens to me without me being charged with the crime the way some women in Pakistan and other countries are charged when they report they’ve been rape. The United States don’t prevent me from worship Allah and it doesn’t force me to worship Allah. There is no Islamic Police here; although at times it feels we get one every now and again on the blog hee hee

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • saad

    April 14, 2014

    spirited! have you ever seen a good paki in your life other than your BLESSED Father? do you Nouman Ali Khan? he is a Paki too. more over i know how bad pakistanis are. and i know it more than you because i am a paki myself. i know we have a corrupt society. but it does not mean i bash my own people. because i know their is goodness in them too. percentage wise they give highest charity in the world,even though they are poor. i know it is not personal insult to me. but insulting my nation my people is enough for me. i love my country and my people and hate those Pakis to guts who are giving my country a bad name by cheating and deceiving your people…. i feel bad about pakis thay they mourn for muslims for iraqis for afghanis for chechans for Palestinians etc. and this is what other muslims think about them. seeing all this i don’t want to be a part of this ummah.rest of pakis should forget about their religion too and start getting quality education.

  • Gail

    April 14, 2014

    Man u guys really having it out with Saad.
    Saad I do agree with u that Pakistani education really really sucks.So no arguing there on that topic!
    You really young and u have not been out in the world yet so try to understand that alot of older and been around alot longer.We are not trying to beat up on Paki people just trying to share information to help another woman that may find herself questioning to marry a Pakistani man.
    Also I have been married to my husband 11 yrs.Yes it has been a hard marriage but I really could not imagine my life without him.I am white and he is Pakistani.I love mix marriages as long as there is no lying,cheating,etc…

  • saad

    April 14, 2014

    ana! i dont see how do i need Allah to overcome obstacles? i just need determination and hard work.
    to be honest our paki generation has been brought up with lies as far as our history and religion is concerned. Islam teaches us the concept of Ummah where people atleast feel the pain of their brethren. Prophet Muhammad said: “The Muslims, in their mutual love, mercy and compassion, are like one body: if one organ complained, the rest of the body develops a fever.” [Bukhari & Muslim],lies,lies and lies every where. you are supposed to be a muslim and you are happy when i tell you USA invaded IRAQ and AFGHANISTAN and killed thousands of innocent people. ofcourse you are american etc first. but i have friends from UK, even though they are Atheists they hate American policies against Muslim world. so for me they are better than many muslims like you.
    Pakistan is a third worlf country because of a reason. Paki nation is illiterate. they want to cling to their religious superstitions and dont want to learn science. this cult has brought nothing but extremism and destruction. Just like Iran/persia was a great civilization before pagan arabs destroyed and plundered it in the name of religion.

  • maryam

    April 14, 2014

    That was an incredible summary Spirited!

  • maryam

    April 14, 2014

    Oh Spirited! The sleeves had me rolling on the floor nearly…I thought at first you meant they were inside the garment not the actual shop like an accessory!

    Have to dash off…peace to you all

  • maryam

    April 14, 2014

    Saad,

    I do get why you feel frustrated. However…

    The difference is that you talking about the behaviour of western “governments”.

    The people on this blog are talking about “individual Pakistani men” not the Pakistani government. This thread developed because SO MANY women had bad experiences with Pakistani men lying, cheating etc. Therefore the theme developed.

    You can’t compare US governnent foreign policy to the behaviour of individuals. Completely different realms.

  • Spirited

    April 14, 2014

    Salaam to everyone,

    @Saad, the main point is that the current generation of Pakistani men are pathetic. In their drive to follow westerners, they’re giving up what it means to be Muslim. Wait, actually it’s not just the men, it’s the women too. I was just in Pakistan for a visit 2 weeks ago, and you know what I saw? I’m sure you know the kinds of womens’ clothes every shop parades around these days. No sleeves? Are you kidding me? How is that Islamic? oh of course, “the sleeves are there” “where?” “inside! You will have to get them sown yourself if you want sleeves. It’s the fashion right now.” And when I looked at the “sleeves,” they might as well not have been there, because they are all see-through. And the duppatas, what’s the point of them? To cover the hair and chest, for modesty as per Allah’s rules. What do I see? Women wearing them around the freaking neck, exposing hair, and sometimes even cleavage. Why? Because they’re following the west, to attract men. Why do the women have to do this? Because the men only want the kind of … shall we say…. “indecent,” “slutty” women that this generation of men lust after. So because of the current generation of idiots, even the women are being goaded into sinning. Nice job I must say.

    What do you expect us to think about the men from there? All I’ve seen is a bunch of horny liars, unable to control themselves and doing anything they can to get what they want. You do remember dating is NOT Islamic? Why are Muslim people in the Islamic nation of Pakistan dating? Why do the Pakistanis who come to the west, date (like I’m reading with Alijah’s “boyfriend”)? Did they leave Islam and God at the airport? Please do explain if you can, because I sure don’t get it.

    My parents wanted to find a husband from Pakistan because they thought that a person from Pakistan would be a good, pious, Allah-fearing Muslim – like the people from their generation, but he seems to have left Allah in Pakistan and come to follow Satan. Yet, I’m an American and I easily COULD have had a boyfriend or pre-marital sex or any number of usual western sins, but I didn’t because I remember Allah. Saad, I don’t believe that cultural differences are the problem. My parents are pakistani, and have kept a “pakistani culture” based home and made sure to teach us punjabi & urdu, we eat the same food as in Pakistan, we wear the same clothes, we celebrate the same Eid, my dad even loves his Basant (kite-flying day they have over there). So, the problem isn’t culture, it’s that the men who are causing problems aren’t following Islam and most of them just happen to be Pakistani, its just that simple.

    To me, it really looks like Muslims here try harder to stay with Allah than the Muslims from the muslim country of Pakistan laughing. In Pakistan, the government (made up of Muslims) can’t even stop stealing from its own people to advance the nation! Rampant poverty even though they have all the money the government gets (goes right into their pockets), if you want anything done, you HAVE to BRIBE the people working at offices – anyone who tries to do things the correct way is ignored or retaliated against, etc. Its really just so sad. Is this following Islam? No. Then why do you complain that bad things are happening? The country is doing this to itself. Remember the old days, when Islam had a HUGE empire? Allah was with the Muslims then, because the Muslims were following Allah. Its not the case anymore – Muslims are following their genitals and $$$, so they’re suffering because of their own lack of faith and greed. Yes, my father is a Pakistani, and so is my mother. They both say their generation was much better because they say it looks like their generation actually kept Allah in their hearts and minds, not like the men today.

    Saad, you will get the “terrorist” label no matter where you’re from. I told you I’m American, but people still call me a terrorist. I’ve been spit at also and told to “go back to my country” laughing. Islamaphobes will be the same everywhere. It sure isn’t my fault, and I know its not your fault either, but it’s the generation’s fault. It’s the fault of the Muslims who do the wrong things. Just like the bad image of Pakistani men as cheaters & liars is because of the Pakistani men who do the things we talk about here. So because of that, its only fair that women should be warned about the trap they’re falling into. Its no offense to you personally, but that’s just the way it is.

    @Alijah, please also keep in mind that a muslim’s children are considered to be Muslim, and should be raised that way. I don’t know how Islamic this guy you’re interested in is, considering he’s dating and all, but he may (and ideally, he should) want children to be raised Muslim.

    Ok well, I have to head out. Again, I’m not trying to bash Pakistani men, or Pakistan — my family is Pakistani and I do like the country, but these are things I’ve seen & heard & dealt with.

  • ana

    April 14, 2014

    saad,

    Perhaps the United States did train Osama Bin Ladin, and did lie about Weapons of Mass destruction, and are killing people with drones and you don’t have the science and technology you need – I’ll give you all of that. If, however you don’t believe in Allah/God, how do you purport to overcome all your obstacles and move yourselves forward???

    Oh, that’s right, Doh Americans are supposed to do it for you.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • saad

    April 14, 2014

    Alijah you seem to be trusting everyone except your guy. interesting situation for me.
    maryam! i am not blaming any one i am just trying to tell that we have agreed pakis are bad so let us talk about you people. like ana has the audacity to talk about usama bin ladin and didn’t mention who trained him? any way USA lied about WMDs and attacked IRAQ.

  • saad

    April 14, 2014

    maryam not exactly i am 21 years old and don’t have plans to marry until 28. anyways it was great hearing how ana feels about her Moslem Ummah.
    i do agree Pakis are suffering because they are week. and they are week because they have not invested in science and technology and did nothing rather worshiping an imaginary allah and mourning over so called “muslim ummah” that includes people like ana who are happy that their a**e* are being kicked by non muslims.
    they will never come out of this humiliation until they start making progress in Science and kick religion out of the realm of state and work for democracy.
    moreover their was no suicide bombing in my country until USA along with rest of crusaders invaded Afghanistan.

  • ana

    April 14, 2014

    maryam, As Salaamu Alaikum

    It seems as though anytime anyone speaks about Muslims blowing themselves and others up, someone comes along and speak of the drones i dont know My thing is why aren’t Muslims falling under the protection of Allah from these drones and things? It should be the question that Muslims need to address and find the answer to.

    I hear you about the coffee. I had mine, now, Insha Allah, I’m going to go do a yoga workout.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • maryam

    April 14, 2014

    Saad, I think you’ll find religion has very much contributed to the rise and fall of nations throughout history.

    You seem to be blaming everyone for whatever situation you find yourself in.

    You mentioned you visited 4 sites before coming here? What were you looking for? It wasn’t someone to marry was it?

  • maryam

    April 14, 2014

    Hector Magrecta!!!

    How did we go from Saad complaining about his countrymen to missiles and drone warefare with statistics thrown in ??!!

    I’m scratching my head.

    I need a coffee…

  • ana

    April 14, 2014

    They said Osama Bin Laden was not in Pakistan. It turned out to be a big fat lie. It kind of coincides with the lies many of the Pakistani men are telling American and European women whom theywant to make their wives.

    By the way, I did like the movie, “Zero Dark Thirty”. I purchased the DVD.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    April 14, 2014

    saad,

    I was thinking you are Muslim. You must not be Muslim or you are a Muslim who believes in other books, and do not believe what is in the Holy Quran (the word of Allah). You say don’t bring religion into it. Well, I’m a Muslim who believes in Allah and what He says in the Holy Quran; therefore, I have no option, but to bring Islam (my way of life) into it.

    Even if all you say is true about the drones and the civilian casualties, it wouldn’t be happening, if the Muslims were obeying Allah. Allah tells the Believers that they would be victorious and triumpant over the unbelievers, if they worshiped and served Him, as He instructs them to. He says He protects the Believers. He gives stories in Quran as to what He has done and how Muslims have prevailed and tells us what He will do and how we can prevail. Thing is, Muslims aren’t listening. They are lost. They cannot see.

    I suppose there aren’t many Believers in Pakistan and all the other impoverished countries in which Americans are invading and annihilating them Shooting JeepKindly tell me why the Americans and other unbelievers are going into these Muslim countries and tearing them up? Again, don’t blame others for the condition of your country. It seems to me that many of the people in your country are jacked up, and aren’t falling under Allah’s protection.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • maryam

    April 14, 2014

    That is so very true Ana. As Muslims we can complain about being stereotyped, disliked, discriminated against as much as we like, but we muslims, have brought much of that on ourselves!

    Saad, just because a bad reputation preceeds you doesn’t mean all hope is lost. Just avoid the kinds of behaviour we’ve talked about. Show that Pakistani men can be great, respectful, honourable. Be the opposite of the men Hahaha talked about.

    Alijah you sound like your have your eyes open. Keep talking, keep asking questions, if there are any contradictions that could be a red flag. The truth is always the same, lies change. Are any of his siblings married?

    Marie, yes it’s funny how you can grow up in the same place and not experience the same things.

  • saad

    April 14, 2014

    we are in mess not because we turned our backs on your “ALLAH”. but because we did not excel in science and technology. religion is every ones personal matter and it does not decides the rise and fall of nations.

  • saad

    April 14, 2014

    Marie! ofcourse you didn’t catch my drift. i was being sarcastic. i am amazed how they are stereotyping my people.
    Ana! not all of my pakistani brothers are interested in americans or europeans. SO STOP STEREOTYPING MY PEOPLE. again i am saying this, there are as many good Pakistanis as there are americans or europeans. but problem with you people is the roguish acts you do your media covers it up. when a paki or a muslim does something wrong, your media will discuss it all day long. my assertion is that there are as many rapists opportunists caucasian/whites as there are pakis.
    you people talk like you are at a higher pedestal, like you are torch bearers as far as moral values are concerned, No you are not.
    what is mighty America and NATO doing in Afghanistan? hundreds of thousands of innocent Afghans have died in war against terror. and more than million have been displaced from their homes.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_in_the_War_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%93present)
    More than 60,000 civilians have died at the hand of USA supported TTP in Pakistan. Americans have killed even our babies in drone attacks (collateral damage for you).
    http://www.policymic.com/articles/24164/a-list-of-children-killed-by-drone-strikes-in-pakistan-and-yemen
    and these 60000 are not just numbers, they were 60000 families who paid the price for 9/11 in which (3000 people died). how many more have to die to satisfy collective american conscience? USA is supporting insurgents Like BLA against Pakistan.
    USA accused iraq for having WMDs and attacked it. where are WMDs? whole world knows they attacked to plunder Iraqs natural resources. You destroy countries, murder civilians in the name of keeping Peace. i am asking who are you? Zeus?
    if Paki nation is guilty of the actions of some individuals then you people are guilty of war crimes,mass murder, plundering our natural resources.
    and dont bother bringing Islam into discussion. your Arab muslims are the most racist people in the world after Indian Hindus and Caucasian/whites.

  • ana

    April 14, 2014

    Saad,

    Islam is not a failure in any kind of way. People are failures. A whole lot a people who claim to be Muslims are failures. Dont’ blame anyone for seeing you, or any Paki man as a terrorist or opportunist. You yourself noted that bombs are going off regularly in Pakistan. Bombs are going off daily in Iraq, as well. Muslims are killing Muslims all over the world. Just like you don’t care what Quran says or about Islam, it’s the sentiments of many Muslims. It’s why their state of affairs are as they are. Instead of your Paki brothers turning to Allah the Provider and Sustainer for their sustenance, they turn to European or American women to get what they want. They disobey Allah. They bellyache about westerners, but at the same time they sleep with them and love them. I don’t blame any country for protecting it and the people from potential terrorism. It’s a fact, Muslims blow sh!t up.

    Muslims have turned their backs on Allah – turned away from Allah – and Allah has turned His back on many Muslims. Their condition is exactly what it should be. Allah is a Just God. Muslim shouldn’t blame anyone anywhere for their condition. They need to start pointing their fingers at themselves and put the blame where it belongs – on themselves. Allah says he cursed the Christians and Jews. Guess what, buddy, He has cursed the Muslims too.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • saad

    April 14, 2014

    Ana! Theoretically it is true that believers should be able to get along not practically. i dont care what ever Quran has to say about cross cultural marriages in fact nobody cares. Because Islam has been a failure in tackling racism. people instead of judging individuals judge whole race for the crimes of few.
    As far as inter racial marriages are concerned unfortunately Pakistan was not there at the time of Muhammad PBUH. other wise He would have prohibited marrying a Paki because of their “deceitfulness,lies and cheating”.
    let me tell you what these interracial marriages have done. being cognizant of the fact that these relationships seldom work out because both (men&women) have an entirely different world view. they have resulted in stereotyping of whole community and given bad name to whole nation. your blog is a proof of the hatred that sprouts from Failed Cross-Cultural marriages.
    I just want to mention that, it does not worry me when Pakis are seen as cheaters and not worthy of marrying(like spirit was boasting that none of her siblings gonna marry a paki)because there is enough population of pakis and most of them are busy among themselves. but it does worry me when we pakis are seen as terrorists because i wanted to go to Europe for higher studies and our reputation precedes us, so it will make my stay difficult any where over seas.

  • Alijah

    April 14, 2014

    Spirited!
    thank you so much lovely! I also read what you said to saad, and i do believe that the Pakistani man that i speak of is in the situation that you are in now.
    Meaning that he grew up more or less away from Pakistan, except for holidays etc, and that he sees things the way you and your parents see about Pakistani men. Hence he wants to distance himself from them.
    Tank you for what you said, it does give me some hope in the midst of this mess ! happy

  • Alijah

    April 14, 2014

    oops! I did a type: number 4 should read:
    he does NOT value Pakistani ways, values and mentality, ….

  • marie

    April 14, 2014

    Asalaamu Alaykum All,

    @saad, I like your name, my husband has a teacher with the same name. We like it because it’s a letter from the Arabic alphabet that can be tricky to pronounce lol. Oh dear you had me laughing my head off. Al qaida stop it. My husband, brother, father in law and just about every Muslim man I know has a bearded, it’s a sunnah and has nothing to do with having links with Al qaida. Although Al qaida may have beards, I don’t know as I don’t know any of them, I thinks you watch too much TV.

    My husband and I are from different cultures/up bringing, we get along just fine. Sometimes it can be quite funny. One time I said I wanted a ‘chip butty’ (fries on a piece of bread) he had no idea what that was. Fir someone who’s lived in England all his life I thought he would know what that was. Very funny moment.

  • Alijah

    April 14, 2014

    Hi Gail, Maryam, saad and everybody !

    all very good insights thank you happy it is really an eye opener here to read your input, and I do deeply thank you for all you are saying to me! truly god sent to find this website for me!

    1 – I am seeing someone else for a few years, but we live in different countries and we have become more friends now than an actual couple.

    2 – The age difference is not that great between the Pakistan man and myself, and it does not show. He looks more mature and older than me in fact.

    3 – He is a resident of our country, which means that his papers are in order to work here, and has been working here for almost 3 years and his contract with us is for another 3 years.
    However, I did not want to look too deeply into his nationality, but I will when i get back to work next week.
    He could have the EU nationality of the country we live in, as he grew up here since age 10.

    4 – He does value the Paikstani ways or mentatily, this is why he distances himself from other Paki men at work, and socialises with the non Paki people, except for that one friend that we have in common.

    5 – His parents live in the same EU as we live in, and they live here legally also, and I have met them already as he invited them to a work event and he introduced us.

    6 – He speaks Urdu, not Punjabi, so I hope that his frame of mind is different from the ones that you are describing indeed. Good tip on trying to learn it indeed! wow !! happy super plan there ! i could also record his conversations and ask someone what they are saying i just realized happy !!

    7 – I do genuinely believe that since he grew up in the EU, he has adopted this country and the europeean idea of love and romantism, and he certainly knows that game very well indeed, consciously or not…

    8 – against everything that I have said, I do have to acknowledge that him being in Pakistan for 3 weeks and him reassuring me about it, is a very important factor here indeed… I had assumed that he went there to spend time with his grand parents and counsins.. which i now realize that it is NOT a good thing, as it does not mean the same as it means for me to visit my family … :/ meaning: if i visit my cousins, it does not mean that I could be visiting my husband to be…

    9 – the country I live in does not allow polygamy, but of course it does not stop him from marrying in Pakistan to his cousin.

    10 – I don’t intend to convert to Islam or to allow him to take a second wife, so if he is serious about wanting to be with me, he should also consider those points and I hope that we will find a breathing room. I would not expect him to adopt my own spiritual routine, beliefs and practices or to come to our monthly/ weekly events all over the world… so this is something that he should be prepared for me to continue and to accept. If he does not, then we have a problem indeed.

    Well, I won’t see him for another week or more, and when he comes back from Pakistan, he will be getting some serious questions from me sooner or later …

    thank you saad for that link on the bombings in Pakistan, I knew that it would be dangerous for him to go there, but i had no idea how dangerous this would be …

    also thanks Gail about telling me that Paki men like danger, so do I unfortunately.. ! lol hahah!! i guess that this is part of the attraction that brings us together happy !

    as to sex, he would not get that from me anyway, so no worries there happy !

    ps: last point, in 3 weeks time, I will start working in a different place as well as in the place that i am now in, so i will see less of him and eventually i can also leave the place where i work now. so that is another option for me if this is getting a bit too painful for me.

    thank you ladies and saad for the reality check! that is one of our problems, we are both dreamy and unrealistic… and sucked up in our jobs happy ! lol

  • ana

    April 14, 2014

    saad, As Salaamu Alaikum,

    “Cross cultural marriages” is a tricky one. A lot of times culture and Islam conflict or people put culture before Islam. However, any persons of any race, ethnicity or nationality who are Muslims/BELIEVERS should be able to get along, and have a very good marriage, as culture wouldn’t become an issue. They’d put Allah first above all else. Islam/Quran would be their focal point. Allah swt didn’t say anyone should only be with their own kind. He says he made us so we could know one another and not despise one another.

    The only requirement Allah places on Believers is that the believing men marry believing women who are single and the believing women marry believing men. The pure is for the pure. And those who aren’t pure are for those who aren’t pure.

    I agree with you that when the married couple gets all caught up in culture there is a major problem. Some mix culture with Islam and their cultural practice contradicts or conflicts with Islam. In the case of mixing truth with falsehood, all one has is falsehood. On the other hand, and we hear about it a lot,for many, culture supersedes or precedes Islam. Culture many times is a hindrance to ones Islamic belief.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • saad

    April 14, 2014

    spirited.
    was your father born and raised in Pakistan?
    (if Yes)must have been hard for your mother putting up with him or was he an exception to the general rule?
    any ways cross cultural marriages must be avoided, in the long run they are bound to fail.

  • maryam

    April 14, 2014

    Wa alaikum salam Ana,

    That is partly what attracted me to Islam, seeing peace and serenity on the faces of some Muslim women I knew.

    Unfortunately, these days more often I seem to seeing despair or hopelessness on too many sisters faces. Maybe I need to get my vision checked (hahaha).

    There’s also instances of a person saying shahadah to marry, but later faith entering their heart strongly. More so than the person they married. That can open up a whole different set of issues.

    Sometimes families expect the “new” muslim to simply adopt the family’s beliefs and customs under the guise it’s Islam.

    My husband’s family expect me to wear hijab in front of his father when visiting. It’s unnecessary in Islam. I said I will do it out of respect for his feelings (and because it doesn’t offend me), but only if my husband acknowledges it is a cultural not Islamic practise.

  • saad

    April 14, 2014

    @Alijah you are getting through so much trouble just dump him and look for anyone from your own kind. you will be alot more happier and secure then.
    more over does he have a beard? if Yes, then he might have links with Al-Qaida. more over visiting Pakistan is a BAD idea if you value your life. there are suicide bombings on daily basis. check this out.
    http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/pakistan/database/bombblast.htm

    @maryum no exactly it is not numbers game, they are just evil vile creatures. otherwise Pakistan would not have been in such a mess.

  • ana

    April 14, 2014

    It’s not a matter of: should I become Muslim or shouldn’t I. Ummm Oh, let me see Pondering and Thinking

    It’s not that kind of party.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    April 14, 2014

    @maryam, As Salaamu Alaikum,

    About becoming Muslim in name only, I think it happens quite often for some people. It seems to happen when a woman is married to a Muslim man who accepted her as a non-Muslim, but then finds out he has a Muslim wife or will marry a Muslim woman. She wants to be on the same playing field as the husband and his other wife, so she converts. She most likely reverts to whatever she was, if her marriage doesn’t workout. There is the woman who take the Shahadah simply to marry a Muslim man, as well. Faith never enters their hearts as they were never sincere about accepting Islam. They never really accepted it. Some women accept Islam for all the wrong reasons. Sometime women accept Islam to please her husband.

    The women who do this do not realize that we don’t choose Islam. Allah determines who will be Muslim and who won’t. We actually don’t have a say in the matter (it’s all an illusion that we do). A person who Allah chooses for Islam won’t leave Islam when they become disenchanted about Islam or the person they accepted it for is no longer a part of their lives.

    A person who accepts Islam for other than to worship Allah could forget it. It’s as if the person never accepted it. Islam is totally about Allah, not about accepting Islam to please a husband or obtain some worldly gain. People can fool others and themselves, but they can’t fool Allah.

    I read someplace, not in Quran, that one gets what one accepts Islam for and nothing else. So, if a woman accepts Islam for a husband, it’s all she gets. She definitely loses in the Hereafter. There is no Janah/Paradise for her. The same goes for money and any financial or material gain etc.

    I know a number of people who say they accepted Islam, but then left it. They never accepted it to begin with. I have since learned not to be so hasty in accepting a person on their statement that they accepted Islam. I intend to do a thorough investigation before I put myself out there to another person simply because he or she say they converted/reverted.

    I don’t believe in trying to convince anyone to accept Islam, as I know Allah determines who will be Muslim. The person who He will make Muslim will find his or her way to Islam. Allah says to invite people to Islam with wisdom and beautiful preaching. People should see good qualities in us that makes them inquire about us and Islam. I had people approach me about Islam, knowing I am Muslim from my modest clothing and head covering. There was one woman who commented on how calm and at peace I seem (I was out in the workforce then). She said she wanted to be like me. People sees good qualities in Muslims that they are drawn to.

    I always say, I don’t want anyone coming up to me preaching a religion, not even Islam (the people with those newspapers etc), so why would I think someone else would want to be the recipient?

    I heard a number of times lately, the saying, “When a student is ready, the teacher appears.” I totally believe it.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • maryam

    April 14, 2014

    Salam alaikum, welcome new people

    Spirited, WOW that’s really something that your parents have been put off your own country’s menfolk.

    Gail and others in America, in your opinion are Pakistani men more likely to date/marry Western women than say Arab men? Or are there just alot more Pakistani men in America than other muslim migrants?

    Could this bad impression we get of Pakistani men partly be a numbers game?

    The other point to mention to those considering futures with these men is children.

    Most mothers I know won’t compromise on what they think is best for their kids. And regardless of their level of devotion, most Muslim men want and expect their kids to be raised muslim. This can cause serious problems.

    A person’s faith can go up and down, a non-religious 20r old could be practising very strictly at 30yrs and want his kids to attend Quran class and his daughters to wear hijab (regardless of what you agreed at marriage). Would you be be able to accept that?

    And please anyone who thinks, or whose boyfriend suggests she just pretends or just becomes muslim in name only, don’t be fooled. No one can keep up appearances over a lifetime, not matter how much you love someone. It would be too exhausting and filled with frustration. Especially a religion like Islam that has compulsory practices. Always be true to yourself.

  • Spirited

    April 13, 2014

    Salaam,

    I just HAD to stop and say,
    @Gail, that’s some hardcore, EXCELLENT advice. I really noticed so much of what you said to Alijah to be spot on. High-five big grin

    Alijah, I welcomed you & Saad in another topic, but I’ll do it here too — welcome aboard, and I would HIGHLY suggest that you put your emotions aside and really give this a LOT of thought. These men honestly are above all: egotistical and selfish. They may not appear to be, but once they get what they want, you’ll be shocked. I’m still always surprised at things I read from others — and it is mostly to do with Pakistani men. You might be charmed by him now, but that charm won’t last if you have to deal with the kinds of things people here have been dealing with laughing

    @Saad, welcome also. My parents are Pakistani, but I was born & raised in the US. Even my parents are disgusted by the behavior of a born & raised Muslim Pakistani that is my husband. They’ve even noticed many other deteriorating or finished marriages with Pakistani men. They’re so ashamed and disgusted of Pakistani men, men from their own beloved home country, that they actively try to avoid or recommend AGAINST Pakistani men for marriage. For sure they aren’t going to be looking for anyone from Pakistan to marry for the rest of my siblings, you can bet on that. For even people who love their country to hate the people from there now is really showing something, don’t you think?

    Ok well, back to my regularly scheduled slog through books rolling eyes

  • Gail

    April 13, 2014

    Alijah,
    One more thing in case u r unaware is that Pakistani people don’t marry for love.It is a foreign concept to them to be frank.Love may come after marriage but not before.If he has interest in you he is seeing something in you he wants either greencard,citizenship,or sex to be blunt.
    My husband actually told me this and I was astounded that how could this be true.I took notice and yeah I have to say I believe him.You can’t love someone if you have an arranged marriage.Love takes time to develop and I do believe it does develop after marriage but again Pakistani as a a general rule have arranged marriages so they do not have this western love concept is what I am trying to say.Even in Pakistan u would not believe that they are always looking to marry up meaning money,properties,vehicles unless it is a family member then the poor family will get lucky if picked.The poor family will move up in status.I’m not sure u understand all this but again I would advise u to study the culture and ask a million questions and NEVER take him at face value until u know him way way longer.

  • Gail

    April 13, 2014

    Alijah,
    Listen one resounding theme I am hearing is that this boy is very young.How many years age difference between u is my first question?Secondly Paki males don’t give a hoot about about authority.They love taking risk they r the biggest risk takers I know to be frank so don’t put alot of stock into he must be crazy in love with u.I would be more inclined to chalking it up as being young and dumb more than anything else.I don’t want to sound all negative with you but just do like u were saying and check if he is in the country on a work visa.Also I want to be really honest here if there is a vast age difference between you then u must must hope for the best but plan for the worst if u are going to going to eventually think to marry this man.I will be honest if there is a vast age difference or his parents have a cousin in mind for him to marry u need to make certain u can deal all this drama down the road because there is a real chance that u could end up in polygamy with a much younger cowife that may do her best to get rid on you.This is worse case but u have to think worse case when u are dealing this type of people.
    It is very good u have time to get your thoughts in order since your working environment will not allow u to date each other.
    I would advice you look around date other men.Do not fix your sites on this one man is my serious advice.If u do decide to go for him then take it very very slow and go to Pakistan meet his family in person and learn the language and do not tell him u know Punjabi and just listen to him with others u will be able to figure out after awhile if he is sincere or not is my advice.
    Oh do not worry about speaking Punjabi just concentrate on trying to understand it.

  • Alijah

    April 13, 2014

    ps Gail: I also forgot to say that I have checked his file in work a few weeks ago, and he has a 5 year contract with us, I did not check if he is a citizen of the EU now or not however, but I will do that when i get back to work after my 2 weeks off.
    Also the thing is that we are not allowed to date each other where I work, it is the house policy. So if we do date, it would not be now.. it would be a few years down the line… or if we do date, we both risk our job, and a heavy law suite perhaps even jail.. so i am not sure why whould he take so many risks if he is safe in Eu for at least another 5 years and with a safe, secure and well paid job .. all this for me… if he was not sincere? what do you think?

  • saad

    April 13, 2014

    @Gail you are right. i was trying to prove that there are good and bad people everywhere. i am fully aware of the fact that some paki people marry British nationals for permanent citizenship (most of them are illiterate ones or having humble family background). and you people are doing good job in educating the rest. personally i don’t like the idea of inter racial marriages. because there are more differences than commonalities.
    any ways thanks for taking your time out.Bye

  • Alijah

    April 13, 2014

    Thank you Gail for your sweet loving warning! I fully appreciate it indeed. I come from a poor country in the middle east, but i grew up in Europe. I know the men from my country also only use women to get a visa into the EU, so no worries, i do know exactly how they behave, for having been a victim of their sweet and interested love, as long as they want your goods, money and a free pass into Europe..
    Also my Pakistani man is much younger than 25 years old, and he grew up in Europe also with his family.
    They all have residency in Europe legally as far as I know, but perhaps that may run out for him? It is something i would need to check with his papers i guess soon, before getting into this even deeper. you are so correct !
    Also I am positive that he is not married back home, but he could be engaged or something however i think…
    He usually does not hang out with Paki men in work, except for one common good friend that we have in common, who is like him a little bit of an angel in my opinion.
    They are both good muslims, and I don’t think that they are the lying type. mind you, i have always thought that being religious meant that you do not lie and can be trusted, but in his case, i know he lies in work about small things.. but you are correct, if he lies about small things, he could certainly lie about bigger things. ..
    I am a little concerned about him being in Pakistan for 3 weeks now, but i do trust him I have to say.
    However, from what you are saying I should be careful … I have been betrayed before, and i would like to think that i have learnt from the experience.. but i know that love makes us go blind.. and yes, i truly appreciate the insights that are here for all of us to read. thank you <3

  • ana

    April 13, 2014

    @Saad,

    Gail pretty much answered the question you asked me. She did a very good job. I second what she’s said.

    We’re not discussing other ethnic groups or nationalities; the topic is Pakistani men. You shouldn’t ignore the fact that Pakistani Muslim Minister Baroness Warsi has acknowledge the problem that exist with regard to some Pakistani men. Although she says the number of men that she speak of who are participants is the minority, it’s prevalent enough to warrant public attention.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Gail

    April 13, 2014

    Saad,
    You seem to me to be trying to prove a point which knowone really cares about except maybe u.Whether u like it or not pretty much anything and everything gets a label slapped on it and Pakistani people r no exception.Obviously most people feel it is way safer in the long run to marry a European man rather than a Paki man.Please stop acting like u don’t know their is problems in your culture when it comes to Pakistani men fishing on the net for European woman to marry.Yes I am certain their r other countries that do the same thing but we r not seeing it in huge numbers like the Paki men.

  • Alijah

    April 12, 2014

    Nice to read the latest posts! happy and thank you ashes for the lovely advice !
    I agree with all that you have said here! and i do appreciate what you are saying fully.
    Nobody is my family cares about religion to be honest, this does not mean that they will not try to do the right thing or that they are bad people. they just want to try things out for themselves without being told what to do. And I am pretty much the same: experience alone matters to me. As such I can appreciate everybody’s life experiences, although i do find it difficult not to judge others when i disagree with them, which is one of my big shortcomings. I tend to forget that we all have different stories, views and need different experiences.
    As to Islam, it would be the same as Christianity for me, religion is just not for me.
    It does not mean that I have no personal beliefs. I am more spiritual than religious. this does not mean that i don’t respect others beliefs and life choices, and I would expect the same in return of course.
    Yes, his parents and even him made it clear to me that becoming a good Muslim is the main thing for them if I am serious about him … but of course, part of him is a little critical of that .. and he does understand what i am saying. His parents however…. humm… i think that while it is their wish to have their son married to someone that they can trust as a Muslim, they are pretty open minded people.. by the looks of it.. well.. one lives in hope!! lol
    As to children, I would never dream of imposing anything on them, as nobody imposed religion on me. I went to church a few times with my cousins as a child, even though my parents only went once or twice per year. Then they asked me if i liked going to church and if i wanted to continue going there.. to which i replied that i did not like it at all, and that i did not want to go any longer.
    The same choice will be given to my children of course, they will decide what is best for them when they are ready in life i should hope. happy
    Thank you for the warm welcome and the lovely reply! much appreciated.
    I DO understand what you are saying of course, and only time will tell where this will go..
    and yes, i adore this person happy !! although just about everything separates us, it is interesting to observe us come together happy

  • saad

    April 12, 2014

    @ana
    it is possible because it is your country and pakis are just immigrants there. any ways answer my question. people of which ethnicity are good?

  • Gail

    April 12, 2014

    TO all the new ladies on the blog reading about Pakistani men,

    I wanted u to know that I have been married to a Pakistani Syed Muslim Shia man for almost 11 yrs now.I really love my husband but my marriage life has been so hard and filled with so many lies over the years from him and his family.I am American and I did not know he was keeping his 1st wife who is his first cousin a secret from me for 8 yrs before the truth came out and I was mentally a basket case when he told me the truth.I know his first wife personally and am raising her biological children as my own in America with my own children.My husband finally let her go 2 yrs ago.
    I just want u ladies to know please be very careful when u are dealing with these men.If u get caught up in their world and try to break away and free yourself later on u may find people u know now and consider your friends will turn their back on u later on.I can’t stress enough be careful.

  • Gail

    April 12, 2014

    HAHAHA,
    I like your attitude welcome to the blog!!!

  • Gail

    April 12, 2014

    Alijah,
    Listen it is truth if he is over age 25 and I kinda got in your post he maybe over 30 then girl he is 99.9% married.Now obviously if both of u r muslim and u can accept being a second wife then u will be fine but if u do not accept polygamy then u better thing a million times before jumping on the love boat with Mr Don Juan(however u spell it) lol unless u want to end up like the titanic and go down with the sinking ship understand? Also u need to know even if u accept polygamy that don’t mean his first wife will accept it and believe me when i tell if he don’t want u to know he is married he will go to the ends of the earth to make certain u do not find out.Pakistan is a very corrupt country and to get the truth out of anyone there is a nightmare.Also do not expect his family to tell u anything other than what he has told them to tell u also thats just the way it works in Pakiland and never ever smile back when other pakistani males are talking to him in punjabi and looking at u and smiling because they r all the same and know to score a white woman means immigration and a trophy wife.Make certain he is not using u for immigration and by that i mean is he a USA citizen if not then 99.9% he is using u for immigration.American woman are nothing more than them playing a game of cat and mouse.Sorry wish I could be more positive towards Pakistani men but they are all about their family in pakistan and the American woman tend to get a bad deal and I don’t mean in the way of divorce.I mean like u have to deal his family and all the drama and if he has a wife in pakiland she is more than likely going to be a family member and she has ultimate authority over your life because she was picked by her husbands parents for marriage understand?

  • ashes

    April 11, 2014

    Alijah-

    I am a western “white girl” that’s been dating a Pakistani for a few years now. The relationship has been amazing and I’ve met his family several times and love them. Of course, they understand we want marriage -dating isn’t taken lightly. Not every man from Pakistan will clash with others outside his culture/religion. However, all the issues here have been raised because they are common enough norms. Read through this blog and discuss each concern before you become serious with him.

    Muslim men are allowed to marry people of the book and some marry whomever they choose, even atheists. However, in my own situation, I find that life is getting soooo much more enjoyable the more I learn about Islam and it feels so good to be able to support my guy. One has to be ok with the children growing up Muslim, as that’s what the husband will expect. This is assuming you date people because you see a future with them and not just for fun. So make sure you research Islam and are OK with the teachings.Remember, you may not have to live it, but It’ll make life so much better for kids not to live in a split home.

    although this blog is for polygamy, you’ll be surprised how much you can learn about culture and religion. Everyone here is quite the character and their readings are enjoyable, it makes it fun to keep up with the writings, and in the process you’ll learn about the religion and culture, patience etc. Sometimes this blog can sting when Muslim posters put down non-muslims, especially when riled up. Most of the time they don’t even realize they’re doing it as nobody here is mean-spirited, and they’re just speaking the truth since they are strong in their beliefs. I suppose not everyone is carful with the wording like I am. happy Anyway, welcome! I hope things work out with you and yours. Again, you’ll love this blog.

  • ana

    April 11, 2014

    HaHaHa, Welcome to our home happy

    I must say, I got a couple of good chuckles from reading your post laughing Thank you. I’m serious. I liked reading your post. It is always nice to have fun and not be so serious all the time.

    I know you must be in your glory that you found out, before you got in too deep, that the Pakistani guy was going to have an arranged marriage. Good for you.

    I agree with you that there are guys who are “users” from all countries. I think there are a lot of rotten apples (men) out there and one bad apple doesn’t spoil the whole bunch, but it sure seems the pickin isn’t good when it comes to those from Pakistan.

    I can’t discount that it’s quite the norm for a Pakistani male to know from birth he will marry a cousin or have an arrange marriage, but would be expect to come to the States or U.K. to marry women there, too, to advance their lives and the lives of their families back home.

    @Saad, welcome to our humble abode hee hee It’s not so humble.

    You said the U.S. or U.K. should deport them so they stop giving Pakistani people a bad name. I don’t see how it could be done. This is “land of the free, home of the brave, so they say.”

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • HAHAHA

    April 11, 2014

    I didn’t marry, but I briefly dated a Pakistani, and I was very lucky, I found out immediately that he was going to have an arranged marriage, and I left him.

    I am not bitter about the experience anymore, because while he was not a good man, he was also not any worse than some other men I have dated (including western ones). After dating men from many countries, I don’t know if one should “beware” of pakistani men any more than men of other countries. There are all kinds of men from all over the world that might be using you for a visa, using you for money, or using you for sex.

    The world is full of people that use other people, and I dont think Pakistanis are any worse than anyone else in this respect.

    However, I will say that I refuse to have sex with anyone that identifies as muslim/ or is strongly religious, until I have met their family and know where I stand. They are very sexually repressed and frankly, have a strange mentality that they can have their fun in america before going back to their country and marry a good girl. Frankly, I dont feel like participating in this little game – even though I am no longer a virgin. I have sex when I choose and I definitely dont give it out as candy to horny losers on vacation in america.

    if they are going to marry a good girl, then they should do it and not date you at all – so avoiding sex with them is really a good way to screen them (well, its also a good way to screen men of any country, but my point still stands).

  • saad

    April 11, 2014

    hi every one. i am from pakistan.
    i have been to 4 other blogs before somehow i ended up here. and every body was discussing how bad pakistani people are. Like they are some kind of vicious animals. i have some questions to ask:
    1) if you think pakistani people (males specifically) are bad, can you name me people of any ethnicity who are all angels?
    nobody should be stereotyped. i haven’t killed anybody but because i am muslim, i am supposed to be a potential terrorist. and because i am Pakistani, i am bound to be a cheater or rapists like it is part of my genes?
    i agree with the fact that there are horrible pakistanis who are excuse for humanity but i have seen many good pakistanis too who will never cheat any one.
    P.S for your information they are human beings just like you people. and please kick pakistanis out of UK/ USA if you are sick of them they are further spoiling my countries image.

  • Alijah

    April 10, 2014

    Thank you selma, he is far from 25 yet.
    I have met both his parents – he introduced us at a work event. He kept staring at me, while others were talking to him and his parents. It looked pretty obvious that he could not care less about anything other than us spending time together.
    I am pretty sure he is not married, but i am getting concerned now about him being engaged or something to his cousin or sister… i thought it was lovely for him to spend time with his relatives, but it looks now as if this is far from being a safe situation … ! i had no idea about those things before reading this blog.
    thank you Ana for setting this up for us.
    Well, whatever the consequences of our friendship, if we are ready to move forward with it, I am sure it will be permitted from above.
    If our path are not meant to be, we have no other choice than to resign to greater forces above us…
    I have no reason to distrust him at all, and we do trust one another, which is a wonderful feeling happy
    If we ever get together, I would include a close that he cannot take a second wife…. unless he allows me to take a second husband.
    As to the religion thing, if we truly love one another, we should be able to deal with it.
    I know both his parents want me to become a devoted muslim, and I may accept to do that, or at least put in the outer form of it, in order to please and reassure them that i have the best intentions for their son.
    xo

  • selma

    April 10, 2014

    Hi @alijah if he’s older then 25 he’s got wife in pakistan beware

  • Alijah

    April 10, 2014

    Thanks for the kind welcome dear Gail,
    I have been reading through the blog, just a few posts, not all of the comments, as it is a very busy blog.. Gail, Thumbs up for having been to Pakistan and for speaking your truth and about your experience with the 1st wife thing and for supporting the group.
    As to myself, I have met a wonderful young man from Pakistan a few months ago in my workplace.
    He is the most adoring and loving person I have ever met, but although we adore one another, I wanted to find out more about his culture and what to expect if I decide to go ahead and give it a try with him.
    His family and him are observing Muslims and I have been hodling my feelings for him off, because I am not a religious person mainly.
    He is now in Pakistan for 3 weeks, after he made sure to reassure me that all will be well while he is away seeing his family and friends. He made a point of reassuring me, and I was not sure why he was so insisting.
    I found myself thinking of him a lot while I have not seen him in ten days now, and my feelings for him are clearer and clearer now.
    At the beginning, when I first met him he was very distant, arrogant. Till one day he had to speak to me about work for a short while, and he was really kind and nice. not at all what i had been expecting of him.
    A few weeks after that he started joining one of my weekly hour groups about culture in Asia and has been coming to them devotedly since he first came. When i asked him why he came to the group, he became a little deffensive, and started to give me several reasons related to work when he comes to my groups. and it is fine with me. But then during the break, i noticed that he is not leaving the room, he stays with me alone in my room, while i review the minutes of the 1st part and see what we will talk about for the 2d part of the meeting. I noticed he just sits in the room silently, and stares at me, and if i stare back, he apologises for staring and looks away.
    Over the weeks the staring at me had become more and more insistant and passionate, and i began to really find him extremely attractive and good looking in turn also.
    He kept coming at the groups and brought one of his friends a few times and 2 weeks ago, everything that he was saying was designed to attract my attention to him, and he was engaging me in conversation with him for the entire duration of the group. I could simply not get away from him, (to my great delight), but the other people did not even dare look at us anymore, and some did not come back the week after. It ended up being just a chat with him, his friend and myself, and the other people in the group feeling somewhat embarassed…
    After that we met a lot by accident at work and there were a lot of smiles being exchanged and we were both very happy to have made a friend.
    Soon i realized that our feelings were a lot more than just being friends however, and he has been coming closer and closer to me and me to him.
    He has really opened up to me and trusts me, he is a lot more talkative to people, smiles all the time now, and a lot happier around me. We have a wonderful complicity now, and we even play roles to fulfil other people’s expectations of what our relationship should be.
    However I do feel that there has been something that he has been holding back form me about Pakistan and his country, culture. Something that he almost feels ashamed about, and embarassed about. When him and his friend talk about Urdu to me, he sometimes gets so embarassed that he becomes all red and looks away.
    Just wanted to thank you all for opening my eyes a little more as to what to expect in the long run, if i decide to stick around him for a while at least and to give this a chance.

  • Gail

    April 9, 2014

    Alijah,
    I agree with what u said a 100%.Welcome to the blog!

  • Alijah

    April 9, 2014

    Hey ladies, I fully agree with incredulous here.
    Too much brain washing of women goes on from the minute they are born. They are told that they are inferior to men and that they must obey the male gender as they would obey to God.
    Which is utter falacy. utter non sense. My advise to anybody falling into the trap of lies and deception and the other wives trap is to walk away from that hell and never look behind. period.
    No matter what it will take, no matter how hard you will fight for it. just walk away. no man ever is worth that kind of sacrifice.
    You are the owner of your own thoughts, body, and choices. get empowered. no man can dictate to you. You are a Creator and a spark of divine God. not an insult to human kind.
    May Allah / God love your sins for allowing the crimes of your gender and of your daughers.
    Blessings

  • ana

    April 4, 2014

    Ummof4, Assalamu Alaikum,

    Alhumdulliah for you. You help take the blog to another level. You have more patience than I do when it comes to dealing with certain people.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ummof4

    April 4, 2014

    Hello Incredulous,

    I have a few questions for you.
    1. Are you married?
    2. Are you Muslim?
    3. Are you a woman?
    4. Do you have children?
    5. Do you personally know anyone who is in a polygynous marriage?
    6. Do you think you can carry on an intelligent dialogue without resorting to negative name calling?

    I am perfectly fine with having a dialogue with people whose ideas about life are not the same as mine. However, I will not have a dialogue with anyone who cannot be civil and display intelligence. Negative name calling does not display intelligence to me.

  • ana

    April 3, 2014

    Incredulous, hello

    Thank you for your comment happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Incredulous

    April 3, 2014

    I cannot imagine what tragedy has befallen any wonderful, unique, powerful, precious woman that she would voluntarily “settle” for crumbs from any man. I have read post after post here of women who claim to have “Their own” in terms of assets and otherwise independence who for some sick, twisted and oh-so-sad reason are ALLOWING another woman into their lives, their relationships and even their homes. I am so grief stricken, I can hardly type. Girl, grow a pair. Get a wise, empowered woman to mentor you back to wholeness, because something is seriously broken. Move YOUR partner in…because Sister, you don’t have one, if the one you’re living with thinks you’re not enough (and he needs supplementation). Seriously, inform him, matter-of-factly, that you will be moving YOUR second husband in, until which time he feels he can be a 100% partner to YOU. Tell him you won’t settle for even 1% LESS from him. Period. Religion my ass.
    I don’t care who you are, how you look, what trials or tribulations or chinks you have in your armour, YOU DESERVE MORE. This is so incredibly derogatory to you and every woman alive, you cannot allow this in your life. Get help, get out, get your soul back, NOW. May THE ALL THAT IS GOOD, RIGHT and LOVING light your way. Way past time to do away with the double-standard!!! Peace and Love to you all. <3

  • ashes

    March 22, 2014

    @ Ana
    Indeed, it’s a hard situation to be in. I believe you once said that “a wife can beg and plead and make the man promise he will never become polygamous all she wants and even he may think he NEVER wants to be, but if Allah has already decided it, nobody can stop it”.

    My own spinoff of that is nobody knows the path for their marriage, only Allah. I’ve heard so many stories of people marring what appeared to be the best person ever -and I’m talking about EVERY race/culture/religion and then years later a partner turns out to become abusive, alcoholic, druggie, lier, having affairs etc. This is universal. I guess the point I’m trying to make is… every relationship is a gamble since, technically, nobody can say with certain what life will bring, only Allah knows.

    I may have these worries about my Pakistani partner, but whose to say if I ended up with a goody two-shoe all-American white boy he wouldn’t turn out to be a cheater or something else- I could read up on a site where people have been cheated on and get just as paranoid. Since every relationship is technically a gamble, I guess all one can do is be aware, openly communicate and believe their partner, enjoy life, go with the flow and stop worrying so much and then take appropriate action once something does happen. Life doesn’t always turn out to be a fairytale… I guess one of the best reasons to only count on Allah.

  • Jenny

    March 22, 2014

    @ Katie & Ashes,

    I’m married to the most incredible Pakistani man!!! My husband has been honest to me always. Everyday I am in constant contact with Pakistani men and the advice you read about is well worth heeding. Advice from me: Don’t play Sherlock Holmes, you won’t find what you are looking for if he was hiding a secret, BUT do keep your eyes open and your ear to the ground.

    While I may trust my husband, it will be a frosty day in hell before I trust his family back in Pakistan (and we get along too).

  • ana

    March 22, 2014

    @Katie,

    I’m glad you found us and I thank our dear Judith here for reaching out to you. I don’t know the answer either. You should, however, be aware that it’s possible a person is married and there is no formal documentation of the marriage. Jenny,(one of our dear blog sisters here) is married to a Pakistani man who was married to his Pakistani/cousin, however, there was no written documentation of the marriage. Marriages based on the Islamic way of life do not have to be registered any particular place/agency for it to be valid. The marriage only need validation by God.

    I agree with Judith that if you are feeling uncomfortable about marrying this man, it could be a sign for you (although I worded it a bit differently. I think we meant the same thing).

    @ashes,

    I know it’s not easy at all for you, dealing with the “what ifs”. I wouldn’t want to be in the position that you are in. Nonetheless, everyone is in some situation; it’s just a different one or could be the same, but no one is free from a situation.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ashes

    March 22, 2014

    Katie- I wonder the same. My guy and I are also planning to get married -I already met the family and everything. He’s super sweet, well-educated, already a US Citizen and treats me amazing. This site is so informing; I’m happy I’m aware of cultural norms, yet now I have the occasional thoughts of “what if” which are super annoying. I’ve openly discussed with him things such as: is him having an arranged, polygamous, secret or cousin marriage something I should ever worry about? Is he already married?

    The first time he laughed and said he isn’t like that and calmly explained why I never have to worry. I keep reading here and get paranoid from time to time after hearing all these stories, I bring it up every few months and he’s getting extremely hurt, last time I asked him, he was so hurt that he broke down and was so disappointed that I have these thoughts. Made me feel awful. He feels stereotyped, and upset that I don’t know his character after knowing him for two years and especially that I could say such things after meeting his family and hanging out with them the entire 4 months they were here visiting him, which is a huge step in that culture.

    Katie, have you ever discussed this with your partner? If not, don’t be afraid to, it’s a legit question and he should be understanding (unless you keep asking again and again and again like myself happy ) Have you met his family yet? These two things should at least make you feel way more comfortable. happy

  • Judith

    March 22, 2014

    Dear Katie,
    I don’t know the answer to your question, but the fear alone should tell you something. Pay attention.
    j

  • Katie

    March 22, 2014

    Is there any way I could check if my partner (Pakistani) is already married back home? Any governing bodies I can call for information? We are planning on getting married here, I am so scared my life can be just ruined one day, please help.

  • Gail

    March 16, 2014

    A Pakistani man,
    Hi I am Gail and I am married to a Paksitani man that used me for a USA Greencard.Even until this day my husband tries to make excuses and say he did not but the truth is he did.I have lived in Pakistan for yrs and travel back and forth all the time and live for months at a time in Pakistan so I am very familiar with the culture and what Pakistani men will do to get out of Pakistan as I am certain u are as well.Pakistan is a country that is spiraling out of control downhill fast and people want out it is logical but I ask u where does one draw the line?Do u think it is right to marry innocent Foreign woman that do not understand Pakistani culture and pretend to them that Pakistan culture and thinking is very modern etc… And before u say Pakistan is modern thinking country then why all the polygamy.You can not even imagine how sick and shameful it was for me think I was married to a man that was divorced but in reality keeping his 1st wife/1st cousin a secret from me and right under my nose.I being a respectable woman and loving mother let my husband (what I though exwife stay with us when we were on vacation in Pakistan)Little did i know the dirty duo had this sick secret and everyone knew about it but me.Long story short Hubby got rid of her 2 yrs ago and formally gave her talaq but that caused a whole other set of issues.Anyway this is reality of Pakistan and what alot of men are doing to get out of pakistan just to let u know.

  • ana

    March 16, 2014

    @A Pakistani Man, welcome,

    You are right; there are “good and bad people all over”. Nonetheless, there is a problem and people should be aware of it. We shouldn’t simply bury our heads in the sand when it comes to it.

    It’s a serious enough problem that the Muslim minister Baroness Warsi has spoken on it

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/9275179/Some-Pakistani-men-see-white-women-as-fair-game-says-Baroness-Warsi.html

    Thank you for commenting happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • A Pakistani Man :P

    March 16, 2014

    I think this is very anti-social to predict whole population on basis of a criminal sample. There are good and bad people all over and its very natural.
    You are right for some of them but its very unkind if used for all of them !!!
    Stay Blessed and Next time search for the right man not the right ethnicity because there is no such thing when it comes to human kind!!!

  • ana

    May 20, 2013

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Peace to All,

    As we have come to the conclusion of another thread, we ask you all to join us over at the new one, which is http://polygamy411.com/a-polygamous-life-desires-and-pain/. All our welcome to continue their discussions there or join in on the new thread.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Sarata

    May 20, 2013

    Asalaamu Alaikum / Hi all happy

    Hope everyone’s ok & Hi + belated welcome Tina! 
    I’ve lost track of everyone’s posts a bit over the past couple days so I’ll just post a quick “me” update. 

    After my lil meltdown I was feeling better. 
    On Saturday I invited my friend / Co2be over for dinner as my hub was going to his mums. 
    We had a nice fun time with my 2year  old having us dancing & stuff. It was kinda like how it was before this whole 2nd wife thing came up. 
    She went home b4hub came back & me & he had a nice normal night.
    Then on Sunday morn me & Co went to our Quran lesson & then went shipping afterwards and home for lunch. 
    Again all fine. 
    Chilled alone with hubs for a while then we picked her up and hub dropped us (me,Co & my son) at the beach. More fun. 

    When I got home my MIL,bro in law & a few of hubs aunties were there. 
    Now a random thing hubs bro always does – before I’ve had chance to even assess who’s there – he goes “they’ve come to greet you – do u recognise them?”. 
    I have a BAD memory for names when I don’t see the person often. But sometimes it just takes me a while to remember but he doesn’t give me the chance. I end up going “yeh I recognise everyone but forgive me until I remember people’s names” or something similar. It’s horribly embarrassing & awkward & leaves me feeling flustered and rubbish. 

    It’s know not intentional on bro in law part. And normally once they’ve gone I’m over it. I dont see them cery often anyway. But Not last night. 
    Hub took his mum home and I was a mess. Feeling so insecure – I’m not great wife material & I’m not great at entertaining – I get it all wrong. Left feeling all “I don’t belong here…” blah blah. 
    But added now is that my Co is perfect at all that – after all it’s her culture and she’s been trained since birth lol. 
    And this time it’s not jealousy I’m feeling about it – I just feel totally inferior like my inlaws will now have a perfect wife to compare me to. A “proper” wife from his own culture. Urgh. 

    I’d cried myself to sleep before hub even got home so I never discussed it with him. It was like a massive smack down after I’d been feeling relatively normal for a few days. Hmmf.
    No fair sad
    Maybe having a co will take that pressure off me? Maybe she can do the perfect wife thing – getting to know all his family properly – doing all the things they expect of us. If they’re gonna see her as the proper wife anyway then fine – i can just be me and stop worrying about it. in theory at least!

  • Jenny

    May 20, 2013

    Hello Everyone! I’m baack!

    Actually, we got home awhile ago. The plane came in an hour early. Dropped the luggage at home, then had to go to the store to do some grocery shopping. Not a scrap or morsel in the house. When we came home, I was so beat. My eyes were just glazed over. Hubby sent me to bed “for an hour.” Bless his heart, six hours later I woke up, him snoring next to me. He put the groceries away, made dinner, bathed the kiddies, put them all to bed, cleaned the kitchen, and left me a plate of food on the stove (he knows me so well that I would have gotten back up). So here I am, just finishing my delish dinner. I only got up to take my medicines and check on the dumplings.

    @ Ana,

    Welcome back! Tomorrow at some point, I’ll shoot you over some pictures from our trip. I’ll give ya’ll the scoop tomorrow. Just wanted to say hello and to thank everyone on the well wishes and prayers for the procedure.

    Doc said everything could not have gone better. He thinks we have about a 75% chance of twins again. Gee, do you think we can handle it???

    I’ve started having the queasy stomach and food has been an issue. It seems I can really only eat one meal a day and maybe some snacks. I feel like Adam from “Man vs. Food.” In my case, food wins. laughing

    @ Tina,

    I wish you much luck. I hope your intended husband is a kind and honest man. My husband is one of them, but I learned that is definitely the minority. Nevertheless, I deeply love my Pakistani husband. I could not have asked for a better husband.

    About what was raised about a short courtship, I wouldn’t worry about that. The day I met my husband, he told me I was going to be one his wife. As I’ve shared before, I was engaged to an Orthodox rabbi at the time. My husband was right. I would break up with the rabbi and marry him. I ignored hubby for a little while because I didn’t think he would be good for me, but hubby would not give up on me. Our wedding date was set and we were married within six weeks,

    Gail stated my husband lives “under” me. I don’t know if that is entirely accurate. Yes, everything we own, all of our businesses, everything is under my name. Which means if we ever divirced, I would have every penny. However, my husband being the very wise man that he is knows that by his giving me everything, I gave him my everything as well. I am fiercely loyal to him. Hubby could care less about money. I’m the one who spends it.

    Tina, there is some truth in Gail’s words, so listen to her as well. My advice is to keep your eyes open at all time.

    Two questions if you don’t mind me asking: how did you meet and why would you want to be a second wife?

    Ok, now I really have to go back to bed!

  • Gail

    May 20, 2013

    Ruqayaa,
    I agree you totally.That is how I felt when I made my demands to hubby and cowife.I let it be known there would be no sharing from my end.Either we all live together or he could kiss and she could kiss it as far as I was concerned.I felt like I didn’t ask for polygamy in my life and by dang I wasn’t going to let him dictate to me that I had to share.However after hubby and cowife agreed to my demands I agreed to give it a shot.It was hard I won’t lie and now looking back I am glad it is over for me but I am only glad it is over because excowife wanted my divorce from hubby and wouldn’t stop or change herself so obviously hubby gave her Talaq and sent her on her way.It bothered me for awhile but now I am fine with it.I am of the opinion to live together one family unit if u must practice polygamy simply so u don’t have to share and the children have their dad but to each their own way.
    Just be creative is my advice and if u see something u don’t like or u are unhappy with change it.As long as your cowife is fare with u and not trying to cut your back or throat every time u turn around then polygamy is doable and not as bad as everyone makes it out to be.

  • Gail

    May 20, 2013

    Tina,
    All I can say is Guard your fiances.I don’t know what it is about Pakistani people but they desire to either go to England or USA any other country is normally secondary on there list.Their mental attitude of USA is Pamela Anderson running around in a bathing suit on the beach understand?Do you know about his finances is he wealthy enough or is he a struggling artist shall we say?Pick the situation apart with a fine tooth comb girl then if u feel like this is acceptable to you then do what u like but for me I wouldn’t trust a Paki for nothing and I think that says alot because I have lived in the culture but again thats just me.
    Just be careful I would hate to see u distraught in the future and emotionally blackmailed.I don’t trust them.

  • Aishah 2013

    May 19, 2013

    Kim thank you.inshallah he will do the right thing.either that or a foot in his a$$.what can I say when I have said it all…I did try hard to have some kind of relationship with her.I see now she had a number of things to hide so it would not be a sincere relationship.I admire that you are able to try again with n,this person is just not worth the effort..God sometimes keeps people apart for a reason.if the lack of communication makes him a little more bipolar I can’t help that.and I don’t say it jokingly…the attempt to combine the real life with this fantasy person could be some mental health stuff.we all got something!

  • Ruqayya

    May 19, 2013

    Kim youre absolutely correct in what you said. And while I understand that what should a woman in polygyny do? Her desire for her husband does not decrease just because he is fulfilling his desire elsewhere. Her need to have him help with housework and kids etc does not descrease because he has additional respo sibilities.
    While I sould like to put a cage on him so to speak I know it will ruin our marriage.. I just want him to realise the reality of polygyny and that it wont be all fun and games like he seems to think.

  • Kim

    May 19, 2013

    Sis Ruqayya,

    forgive me if I’m wrong but I am hearing anger and resentment in your words; kind of like you want to put some sort of punitive cage around your husband if he ever takes another wife. NOT that I don’t relate, I do….it was an issue I had that I had to work through, and I didn’t really have a “lead up” as a monogamous couple to “rehearse” and work through issues before they became my daily reality. I never got fair warning that a co-wife was coming, and truth be told, neither did M. It just happened.

    Honestly, I learned the hard way that putting all that “thou shalt not have a life of your own” on your husband backfires bigtime. Try to remember that IF your husband should take another wife, it’s already been decreed such. Don’t punish your hubby for what Allah has given him. Believe it or not, polygamy comes with a lot of difficulty for the men…it ain’t all rosy on their side either; polygamy is a test for the husband as much as it is for the wives.
    .

  • Tina

    May 19, 2013

    Hi All,
    @ Gail, thanks so much for your comments and concern I will definitely take your comments into consideration. The man has lived in Canada for many many years and has no desire to go anywhere he has over the years brought over his parents, his sister and his first wife. He said he made it very clear from when he first met his first wife that he wanted more. He knew he always wanted to live poly. He seems very considerate of his first wives feelings and she knows he has met someone and is talking / texting to them. She has seem my picture and says hi when we are texting sometimes.. I will be meeting her in the next month or two as he won’t move forward without her approval. I would combine any of my finances since being a second wife I would not have any legal recourse if it didn’t work out.. I currently own my own home, have good job.. so I am not planning on contributing financially. Granted we really haven’t talked about all that yet. He is adamant that we all need to live together after a period of time.. it is truly what he wants and I think I would be ok with it all.. time will tell.. happy I see there are pros and cons to living this way so we will see what time brings.. but he does seem very considerate and nice.. albeit a little old fashioned in his views .. maybe that is the muslim part..

  • Ruqayya

    May 19, 2013

    See I will not be as forgiving and easy going. As Gail said if I wanted to be alone so much I would have stayed single. Im not an independent person, yes I like my free tjme but not all the time and what about when we have kids? Nope if he expects me to give up half his time love affection and help so he can fulfill his desire he best damn well plan on losing most if not all of his free time to spend o kids and fulfilling MY desire. I dont have the option of going elsewhere so he better prepare vide. He asked for two wives so if he thinks his up to the task he can prove it lol. If it were up to me id have him everyday happy
    I do appreciate his kindness, mashaAllah he really does try his best. and if it werent for this polygyny thing we would probably not even fight… Alhamdulilah we have been avoiding fights as of late.

  • Kim

    May 19, 2013

    @ Gail,

    I think the greencard issue for Tina isn’t an issue. I know you’ve gotten bitten hard due to what your hubby did and I can’t blame you for the reactions you have, but I promise you if this guy’s been in Canada for 20 years, he’s either a permanent resident or a Canadian citizen and isn’t marrying Tina for residency purposes. His first wife is here and has been here for 4 years. I assume he got her here and had to have some form of citizenship/residency in order to do that, though I’m not familiar with Canadian immigration law to that extent.

    For the record, while I met M in June of 2007, we didn’t express a real interest in each other in “that way” for a couple of months. In July of 08 we legally married. Kind of a whirlwind, and I wanted to marry sooner than that even LOL…when we had our first date I knew by the end of it I would say yes if he ever proposed. Fortunately I didn’t have to wait long. Our first date was September 2, and he proposed on September 12.

    Quick type “engagements” happen over there and in the Islamic countries especially. M explained that to me. He married his first wife 10 days after they met and they were married almost 10 years with 2 kids. HE didn’t screw it up, she did, which she fully admits.

    I’ve chatted with lots of 2nd wives who married their husbands after only a couple of sit-downs with them. The Wali did most of the leg work, but in any event the time between meeting, sitdowns and Nikah is quite short (by western standards). It’s pretty normal.

  • ana

    May 19, 2013

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Peace to All! big grin

    Well, everyone, I’mmmmm back…What's Up Animated Text

    I’m happy to see all has been good here in my absence. Alhumdulliah (Praise is due to Allah). I haven’t been able to look at all the comments from the last several days yet, but Insha Allah, I will get to them. The blog has a bit of a problem I have to figure out eventually. Before I left, I tried to put you all on automatic approval, which worked for some, but not others. So, I need to figure out what the problem is. My wali/bestess was kind enough to check in periodically to approve comments for me in my absence, for which I am very grateful to Allah that He allowed him to do it. The bestess got a taste of some of the work I do. He was very much happy to hand the job back over to me Giggling I thank everyone here for being so kind and courteous in welcoming our newcomers. I appreciate you all very much.

    Alex and I had a very nice vacation. It was soooo much fun and relaxing too. I think this is probably the first vacation we’ve had that didn’t seem as though the time flew by. It was so enjoyable. Alhumdulliah (all praise is due to Allah.) I can’t thank Allah swt enough. It’s a special month for Alex and I (our anniversary – the actual day is coming up on Friday. We have quite a few events and affairs planned for the evening before and the entire day of. Insha Allah, all will go well. I know Hilly and Gail have anniversaries coming up in June; it’s exciting.

    The font of my comments on the page here on my computer are coming out in italic. I’m wondering if it’s just my computer or the web page that everyone is seeing. Hopefully it’s just my page, so I don’t have to figure out how to fix it. All the smilies don’t seem to be working either – sigh. I need the sigh smiley here, right about now LOL

    Don’t let me hold any of you up. Carry on… I think our Jenny is due back today, as well. Insha Allah, IVF worked and she is with child

    @Maureen,

    I pray you’re getting better. My prayers are with you, my sister. Stay strong. Remember Allah MUCH, so He can remember you

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Gail

    May 19, 2013

    Tina,
    You sent off alarm bells when u mentioned in your post that u have only known this man 6 weeks and he has told his wife he wants to practice polygamy.I can assure you his wife is not for polygamy and he has not told her he ever intended to practice polygamy.The only reason a Pakistani wife will accept polygamy in my humble opinion is that the husband promise the Pakistani wife he will divorce the foreign wife after he obtains Greencard status or Citizenship.
    I will be very blunt here are u going to planning to help this man obtain a greencard ?If this is the case u better know your marriage will be on risk after he obtains what he wants from u.I wish I could sound more positive but the reality is more than likely he is scamming u and before u dare plunge into this marriage u better be certain u don’t let this man or his wife near your assets or chances are they will ruin u financially.One more thing u can’t believe anything he says as the entire culture grooms them to be liars.I hate to say it but it is the truth.Lord I have been married to a Pakistani man 10 years and I don’t know if he has ever told me the truth on any matter.With u being 45 I would think a million times if u can afford a Pakistani man and his family.Listen another thing even if u know Pakistani people u can’t judge what u are fixing to do by other pakis u know because this nation they keep things hidden behind closed doors.I pray u think long and hard before u jump in a Pakistani Boat.
    Jenny here claims she has had a great relationship with her husband and I believe her but do I think her husband has been completely 100% honest with her knowing the culture the way I do I would say I seriously doubt it but she is smart enough to have got everything in her name so she is safe because her husband lives under her and believe me when I tell u that as crazy and controlling as that sounds it is the only sure way to deal with a Pakistani man.In my case I adopted my husbands son and in process to adopt his children from his first wife when I figured out he might not be the knight in shining armor that I thought him to be.
    Anyway sorry to sound so negative but I wish I had someone to tell me to watch out before I married my husband .It would have saved me the disgusting life I now have.Also u need to know that if u go to Pakistan everyone will treat u nice on your face but they will talk behind your back because they don’t accept 2nd wives and they will know he is going to get what he can from u my guess greencard and cut u loose.Sounds disgusting I know but thats the truth of it.

  • Kim

    May 19, 2013

    So, with all the stress and upheaval this past week, I kind of let part of my new way of eating and working out take a back seat. I stuck pretty much on plan diet-wise, but didn’t walk at all. My job is a teensy bit strenuous at times though so I guess I got some exercise in, but not the actual WORKOUT type. And I fell back a tad diet wise…skipped some meals, overdid it on others, had ice cream (albeit low carb) and some wholegrain bread on a patty melt when I took my son out for dinner. I ignored the scale.

    Today I did my walk, and added in some resistance training. I also tried on a pair of jeans that as of January I couldn’t put on without feeling vital circulation being cut off LOL…well, the legs are officially BAGGY! The waist fits comfortably and the butt sags. Alhamdulillah! I also braved the scale and am down between 15.5 and 16 pounds. So even with my slight slacking, it’s still coming off. YAY!!!!! big grin big grin big grin

  • Kim

    May 19, 2013

    Asalaam Aleikum KA126,

    Very good news, you and your co are able to discuss things and come to terms with each other. I can understand her jealousy (sure we all can) and as long as SHE can come to terms with everything, insha Allah y’all will be okay. After that initial bout of fitnah I think I’d be extremely leery, but you probably shook things up a lot by telling your husband you want out. When they hear that, a conscientious husband realizes that sh*t just got real LOL…

    I’m sure your co feels a good amount of upheaval, I mean, going from Ghana to the US and joining her husband and his other wife, that’s a lot to take in all at once. Of course, ganking your stuff and lying about pregnancy and moneyt and all that is pretty counterproductive and certainly doesn’t get everyone off to a real good start, but it’s over n done, today is a new day masha Allah. Keep on keeping on, dear, and it will all fall into place as Allah has decreed for you all.

  • KA126

    May 19, 2013

    @Gail and my fellow sisters,

    When you say that things are temporary, you are definitely speaking truth. The wonderful thing about this blog is that everytime I speak of an issue, it dissapates. I’m sure my contant prayers/duas are also helping, lol. In sha Allah! My Habibi, CoCo and I are back on track… after much discussion and telling my Habibi I wanted a divorce. Astagfirullah. It’s funny that I don’t have jealousy of my CoCo… just certain expectations from my husband. While I’ve learned that my CoCo is satisfied with my husband’s actions but is jealous of me. SubhanAllah!!! It’s amazing what coffee and firl talk will do. I love that my CoCo and I are able to talk things out. I explained to her that my trust had dwindled and that I didn’t like lies and deception. I could tell that her apology was sincere. However, I will not be a fool, I will be paying close attention as well as make sure I keep my cool. In the meantime, I did go get all my things she took out of my room.

  • J

    May 19, 2013

    Kim, am happy to here that N is trying and being nice, I really wish you guys the best. I definitely did not do anything gutsy, I said something because I knew the sisters knew, because their husbands told them. I cant see myself just sharing this information tho, I am always the verge of tears, and I could never let someone see that. Especially when people look at me as a strong sister.

  • Kim

    May 19, 2013

    @ J,

    Well….I am being cautious with N. Cannot help that, but I’m open, probably moreso than I’ve ever been in this. I don’t think she feels she’s got me in her hand; she does the same thing, sending gifts, being understanding and conscientious of things (wayyyy more than she was before). That night he slept over there unexpectedly she was falling all over herself apologizing on the phone, and yesterday when I went out to meet her she again was very sorry. I assured her it was the best outcome even though at the time I was WTF’ing all over the place, I told her there’s nothing to apologize for and ANYWAY it was M’s responsibility to let me know ahead of time, not hers. She didn’t want me to think she coerced him into sleeping there. I know she didn’t. I overheard them on the phone the next day talking about what a screwup it was, his letting time get away, so I know it was an honest case of time getting away. It was all good happy

    Aishah, you just made me count my blessings. N is VERY conscious of M’s obligations with the kids. Okay last year she tripped out regarding his daughter coming over here on her day, but it wasn’t as much about that as it is that he hasn’t confided in his adult children about N. The reasons for that are N’s fault – she destroyed their relationship before there ever was one, and M’s son told M that if he is going to do this he wants nothing to do with it, doesn’t want to hear a word about it. His daughter said she doesn’t want to hear another word either, soooo….he had to kind of keep up appearances and come here as if he lived here 100% of the time, and have dinner with her. I know N felt horrid about that, lord knows I would too, but what can be done?

    However she is VERY conscious about these boys of mine, who are M’s stepchildren. Even last year amid the fitnah, when my youngest was very sick with some bug, I informed M, and N immediately let him know he should come home and be with him. It wasn’t necessary, I mean a bug is a bug, but it was a very mature and kind thing to do on her part and I appreciated it.

    By the same token, she has her 3 kids….if something big came up with them, I would of course understand, even though he doesn’t have that fatherly type of relationship with them. They’re still her kids, though 2 are grown, and the youngest lives with N’s ex, but still. Kids have nothing to do with any issues between the spouses and as Jenny said, when kids are involved, our wants and needs have to be set aside. I think your hubby needs to step up and not let your children feel like they come second to the co-wife. Ever.

    I know you don’t have a relationship with her and that’s ok, Aishah….I lived months in polygamy that way. It has its good side, for sure, as J said, living in your own marital bubble. For me, though, it also bred mistrust in some ways and I didn’t like that. I prefer openness with all involved, and stick with my conclusion that forging a bond with N is just as important. So far so good….it’s only my head/heart that tend to kick up a fuss. I’m striving very hard to get a handle on that internal mess happy

    J, it was gutsy of you to fill the sisters in on your polygamous marriage. I say that because the reactions aren’t always what we’d expect from Muslimahs. Many are appalled…not kidding…and will either to your face or behind your back be really derisive. I think some of that stems from fear of them finding themselves as a wife with a “#”. I never really encountered it much, but I don’t associate with too many Muslimahs outside of the internet, here in America. I think in Kashmir the news would get a very mixed reaction. There is polygamy there, but it’s not pervasive, and pretty limited to very archconservative communities. 2 of M’s brothers tried it with 2 wives and it was very difficult and ended in divorce. M’s brother in law’s dad has had 2 wives for over 40 years though! Another guy I know, my brother in law’s wife’s brother, has had 2 for several years also but one lives in Germany and the other in Kashmir. It all seems to work out for them. But whenever the topic of polygamy came up in conversation with the friends I had there, they HAAAAAAATED the whole notion. My maid shook her head and said “2 wife no good, very bad, noooo good! Too much of tension, too much of fitnah!” She was so cute though. It was kind of too bad, I would have loved her for a co-wife and actually considered it. After N and M split I thought about it again. Told M she’d be a great co (provided she got over the “noooo good!” attitude lol…..)

    J, Insha Allah these ladies you spoke with will continue to be supportive. We all need that from time to time.

  • Aishah 2013

    May 19, 2013

    Sorry heads out to Isha. And doesn’t return…unless she calls him for an immediate ride if which case he runs like a trained poodle.so he spends time both places in a day/night.sometimes has skipped kids but has never skipped her.so it will all work out somehow inshallaj.I just don’t want them to be terribly disappointed.she is basically from all appearances a pretty selfish young lady so I’m not automatically expecting her to put children’s needs before her own.she has not to this point.and yes it is his responsibility to put it all into place too. Those kids spoke to him yesterday about how he doesn’t spend enough time with them and how I do everything(I wasn’t there to hear thislaughing.think he was upset but shouldn’t be surprised..the addition of another wife doesn’t weaken your obligations to your family…its a hard test I guess and can weaken or strengthen the man’s deen. Anyway welcome all new folks.Jenny hope it works.how many days do they wait before implantation? Gail grass is so not greener on other side…if you got thru all that you did stick with it.Old love not the answer just a diversion.Kim wow if it continues to work out…back to man days and “whose time it is”if its a work day he better be working or making money to support an extra..as far as visiting during day..sex…I have had during day like on weekend without considering whose night was which so I guess it happens on other side of town too (I just have to put my anti yucky thoughts hat on!)extra time for him…I wouldn’t prevent it no probably needs to destress but he’s not been organized enough to get there.does he get an extra night that’s his?nope.where would he sleep?these men aren’t exactly sacrificing and sleeping alone!

  • J

    May 19, 2013

    KIM

    I wasnt offended at all girl!! lol. your to funny, am really proud of you as well, its amazing what you are doing mashaAllah trying to befriend her, inshaAllah everything will work out for the best. But you know also still keep your distance cuz you dont want her to be like ooo I got her in my hand shes always reaching out. You know what am saying, us females can be crazy lol. But your awesome May Allah subhaana wa taa’ala reward you much for all your efforts.

    I wish sometimes my co would reach out, but she doesnt, maybe its because hub told her not. But anyways at the same I dont even want her to reach out at all. Even thinking about being friends right now is to hard, I like the concept, but it hurts to much now. Even though before all of this we werent friends like that we did know each other and talked and stuff, but I guess now she feels differently now that she is with my husband. I feel m ore secure and better being in my bubble, I dont like letting people in Anymore

    I had guests over yesterday and of course they already knew and the sisters couldnt make it anymore obvious.. dont get me wrong they werent mean about it, one of them am pretty close to but we dont talk to much anymore. When the men left for Salah, I said okay I know you heard from your husbands about this, and before some stupid catty sisters tell you guys, I will tell you that my husband took another. And they said nice words I guess I was expecting something negative but alhamdulillah they said they were proud of me, and in this situation you need lots of patience and with patience come great reward in the hereafter, and that one day they will probably be in the same situation.

    yee so thats the little update. okay I need to clear my brain its starting to fog and my heart is starting to beat fast sad

    on the good news we bought an awesome area rug, its a loft shag..ooo I loooove it. as am typing am laying on it. verry nice lol.

  • Aishah 2013

    May 19, 2013

    Hi everyone.thanks for advice about birthday stuff.it will not involve Co as we don’t have that kind of relationship rapport.and believe mewe don’t do big deal.its just about the kids and them getting to spend time with “their”dad…I put it that way cause Co level of dependency is as high as any elementary school kid and they have said it before “he’s not her dad.he needs to spend time with us and do stuff with us”.and yes they deserve it…one was fostered adopted so she was meant to be here and the other one was basically a miracle baby so yes we should acknowledge its amazing they are here and if not for God they would not be in our lives.PS.Congrats. Maureen.So I have felt a bit like a card dealer at a table but I have given up a bit to make sure they have him their notes.now to make sure he comes earlier…we don’t do a strict magrib.to fajr schedule..he generally head

  • Kim

    May 19, 2013

    sis Ruqayya,

    Oh I see me in your words so clearly LOL…one thing M complained pretty regularly about in our polygamy journey was his lack of “M time”. Now, as I too am very independent and need lots and lots of space, i.e. “me time”, before he married N he got all he needed. Time to himself, time with his friends, you name it. But once N came into the picture that all changed and he felt strangled. By N, definitely; she hated for him to be out of her sight at all; and me? Oh, I don’t know who slapped Velcro on me but I was on him like flies on sh*t too. Dude was suffocating.

    He is so terribly afraid of that feeling again. I understand, and I’ve matured enough that giving him his time for himself on my days is not really a problem anymore. And in all the marathon conversations he’s had with N, I am positive he has reinforced that with her as well. Insha Allah she sees that he does need his space too, it’s a healthy good thing. That “letting go” comes with time and understanding. That giving him room to breathe and do his own thing does NOT automatically equal he’s out fishing for another woman, or sneaking over to have sex with me on her days (yeah, really…she thought that was going on!). He isn’t about to look for a 3rd for crying out loud. I know it for a fact. Getting N to comprehend that was impossible last year though *sigh*

    But anyway, Ruqayya, your husband is trying to bring you comfort and that’s a wonderful thing. I just hesitate to embrace his words about not wanting a 2nd because if Allah put that desire in him, it isn’t just going to vanish. He may decide to wait awhile, til your marriage has had a chance to rack up more miles (you’re still pretty newlywed, right?), putting it off until you feel stronger in your marriage, and when Allah decrees it to happen, it will. Or it may not happen at all. Only Allah knows. But do NOT ruin your here and now with it, Ruqayya. Embrace the kindness of your husband, love him, enjoy your marriage. Don’t waste time dwelling on things that you have no control over, nor does your husband. I’ve learned this along the way, and it was a lesson repeated many times. (((HUGS)))

  • Kim

    May 19, 2013

    ARGH. Huge post poof gone. Does anyone know how to desensitize the keyboard or something on a windows 8 laptop? *head/desk*

    What I was TRYING to say that went *poof* is I am so sorry if I offended you, J, I meant absolutely no disrespect. It’s just that becoming a practicing, believing Muslim after years of a very different life we were born into, grew up in, that shaped our minds and beliefs, well, it’s a process. I only used hijab as an example…I know many new Shahadas put on a hijab and there it stays forever. Again, I’m sorry sister (((HUGS)))

    Sis Ruqayya, I don’t know about the upper hand N had, I suppose she did. I know I felt that way when I first discovered what was going on behind my back. I let her have it via text (ganked her number from M’s phone) to let her know I wasn’t anyone to be messed with, I’m not about to make this easy for him, and she let me have it right back with both barrels lol…I can laugh now, but oh, those were some horrible dark days sad However, it’s in the past. I want better than that with N. I believe she wants better with me and we both deserve to give OUR relationship a shot. However, I want it natural, not “forced”. I hope that makes sense. I want to love her as my dear sister, my friend, my co-wife. No pretenses. Our smiles and laughter should be genuine, our giving and sharing something we love to do. Yes, a tall order given the history, but I believe with the permission and help of Allah we will get there happy

  • Ruqayya

    May 19, 2013

    Kim I’m so happy you have been able to battle the shaytaan and find benefit for yourself in polygyny and really be the bigger person when it comes to N. Im sorry for the misunderstanding I see how she ended up with the upper hand knowing she was walking into polygyny while you were left I the dark. Very sad indeed but mashaAllah you were able to come so far.
    Updatw from my side is hubby sat me down after a melt down (from me) and explained when he asks me to go out or sometimes doesnt seem so interested to hug and kiss etc as I do its because he enjoys his free time. Which I understand as I So enjoy my time lone as well. But after I aksllsoed him how much I need to give up should he take a second wife? Explaned to him I would not allow him to have free time or see friends etc o my days he told me he was no longer interested I taking a second wife. Sadly I dont believe him… but I desperately want to.
    Oddly enough today I met a sister who met his criteria and I got along with sooooo well. I began thinking it might be nice… but as soon as I got home to hubby those thoughts disappeared lol. I think im getting a bit bi polar and even if hubbt is really rethinkinh polygyny I know it will stay on my mind for the rest of my marriage which makes me really sad.

  • J

    May 19, 2013

    Kim

    Awww why would you suspect of anyone who did a 180 after taking there shahada? I think I did more like 360 lol!! By the time I took my shahada I knew a lot of about Islam and I loved it. I knew everything from women covering and why, meaning of Sunnah, the five pillars in full detail, even some Salah etc. So for me when I took my shahada I started covering right away and its been that way for 7 years Alhamdulillah..hhmm now that I think about it some sisters were like wow your going to cover like that..hhhmm okay point taken lol. But I do see your point some people take shahada and dont really know much and then start learning.

    Knowledge is power. happy Difficulty brings ease happy Actions are based on Intentions happy

  • J

    May 19, 2013

    Tina

    I agree as well, most men cheat sadly, you are very brave to consider a lifestyle like this. And in Islam at least being able to have up to four wives the man is forced to give them there proper rights and support them, not just fool around.

    And if you have any questions about Muslims or Islam we are all here to answer happy I’ve been Muslim for 7 years now and it’s the best decision ive ever made in my life. I come from a very very religious Baptist background, went to church every sunday etc. When learning about Islam and researching it, I fell in love and I knew it was the truth, I embraced it right away. happy

  • Kim

    May 18, 2013

    Hey Tina,

    Don’t worry about the smiley faces…can’t have too many smiles in this joint! Kidding, but I like the smileys. Bring ‘em on! big grin

    Well, I’d have to agree with you about men who cheat. The majority do. And an ever increasing number of women are doing so as well. Marriage ain’t what it used to be.

    M is very NOT conservative. He’s not very religious at all, but he has his core beliefs. N is more religious as far as observing, salats, etc. Me, I’m somewhere in there, probably a bit closer to M as far as practicing goes, but I too have my core beliefs that are ever present even if it doesn’t appear that way. One doesn’t take Shahada and become a completely practicing Muslim overnight. It’s a learning process, it’s a change (complete change) in lifestyle, and I’d be suspect of anyone who did a total 180 the minute they took Shahada. For me, I was pretty gung-ho at first, wouldn’t appear in public without coverage head to toe and all that. I’ve relaxed on that though I dress pretty modestly, I don’t wear hijab all the time.

    Prayers can be a challenge, they almost seem at first an interruption to our day. Soon though they become as natural as eating and sleeping. It takes time and of course true faith, belief and desire.

    IDK if I could handle an arch-conservative husband, personally. I am obedient to a point with M; I am submissive but only when it doesn’t go against my better judgment. M doesn’t expect me to be either. But I do serve him, literally. He’ll be sitting in his easy chair and hold out his empty coffee cup and that’s my cue to go fill it for him. But he does things for me, too, like that. We’re very compatible masha Allah happy Considering I am very very VERY independent in actions and thought and verbiage, it’s a good thing he’s easygoing LOL….I serve no earthly master big grin But having a strong man to take charge is not a bad thing at all, and at times I do wish M would be a little more that way.

    I doubt it’ll happen though. The women in my husband’s family are very headstrong and M is accustomed to that and expects it from his wife. They do their traditional women’s roles, yes, but you better believe they’re outspoken and never take any crap. I love that about them! I fit right in lol….

    Anyway, your story is fascinating, and I look forward to hearing about how the meetings go and everything else. Insha Allah your journey to polygamy will be as stress-free as possible and your future co-wife and your future in-laws will be wonderful to you. Sounds to me like you’ve got the right attitude and heart for it. Bless you Tina happy

  • Kim

    May 18, 2013

    @Fatima,

    See, that’s what’s weird. I mean no two families in India or Pakistan are really alike any more than 2 families in the US are alike, so I hesitate to paint the entire population with the same broad brush, BUT, it seems as though you, Gail, Jenny to a degree, and others have these nightmare greedy in-laws wanting and wanting more, especially from their family member who flew the coop and came to America or elsewhere in the west.

    M’s family is totally different. They don’t see life here as any kind of cakewalk whatsoever, the US is not flowing with milk n honey in their view (accurately so). M’s standard of living is significantly lower here than in Kashmir, and in his belief as well as his family’s, life over HERE is so hard in comparison. Many of the family members have traveled, but few to America. Only his dad was here once. But they’ve been everywhere else. Having resided in both the US and Kashmir though, I wholeheartedly agree with them. M’s family is fairly well to do but they’re not like, disgustingly rich or anything. They live quite comfortably there with little financial stress for the most part. So, his family is bugging us to come back because life HERE is so so so hard compared to Kashmir. Funny….but I gotta agree with them.

  • Tina

    May 18, 2013

    Sorry I didn’t realize I did so many smiley faces.. I will have to watch that

  • Tina

    May 18, 2013

    Thank you for all of the warm welcomes happy My journey towards Muslim religion is ongoing, I was raised Catholic, non practising.. I have seen in my lifetime that most marriages either end in divorce or the man cheats, I do believe most Christian men cheat either occasionally or ongoing – but that is my opinion and what I have seen.

    In exploring Muslim, I realized men can have up to 4 wives and have been doing research, pros and cons, reading this forum happy to see is it really better, would it work for me, for a first wife.At least it is all in the open (in this case anyway) and would include marriage. I haven’t been to concerned with sharing a man, maybe that will hit me later lol.. I met the man I am to many on line and we have been communicating for about 6 weeks, his wife knows he wants more wives and he is going to seek her permission first. I will meet her and his parents over the next month, I am not sure when we are going to get married hopefully in about 6months, we all want to make sure it will work for everyone happy but I feel very positive.

    I do find my future husband is very conservative, and is expecting obedient wives that get along and help out around the house..he is quite a strong man in opinion and thought, but I actually like that happy I guess we will see what the next few months bring.. Hopefully even though I have limited knowledge at this point I can become a support for you ladies as well happy

  • Gail

    May 18, 2013

    Fatima,
    You are also correct in the fact that I am sick to death of the inlaws and all their drama they caused on themselves.I just have zero tolerance for their problems anymore.They create their own messes.
    Also more than those people being poor they are same like Pakistani nation it seems with family members and desire everything they can get out of the person working outside the country.It is just expected and part of their insane culture.Crazy is IS CRAZY DOES!!! when talking about those cultures if u ask me.Don’t feel sorry for your hubby because he understands all this very well and is going right along with the culture program.I tried to stop my husband several times in the past but he never listened and I am sick to death of screaming at him to knock off.His latest venture is he is building his parents a Grand Mansion in ISlamabad oh what JOY!!I have only been asking for a home for well lets see now OUR ENTIRE MARRIAGE!!!
    About my first love him and I actually talked daily for 3 months on the phone and net and at first I thought the same thing it was reliving the past but as I got to see him now in his life older and more mature I started to see him different and I really adore his personality and work ethic and family values.So yeah if I had not had got to know him then I can say yeah u are right but dang I got to know him now and wow he is really a good guy.

  • Kim

    May 18, 2013

    Asalaam Aleikum Fatima,

    Thanks sweetie, I am trying. I’ve texted N a little bit this evening via M’s phone (still not ready to give her my new number), after I got back from the Halal market. I got an extra 1.5 pds of lamb and going to give it to her. I also got her a thing of baklava (which I adore myself but on this diet it is kryptonite for me LOL), and I bought her a little battery operated clock which sits on a stand. behind the hands it says “Bismillah ir rahman ir Raheem” in a pretty gold Arabic script on the face of the clock. Well, mine does anyway (I can read that much Arabic LOL)…hers I got has a verse from the Holy Qur’an but I cannot make much of it out. I’m sure she can read it though happy

    So she just came and picked up M. Given that it’s 9pm here, I’m assuming it’s an all nighter. That’s okay though. BTW she looked absolutely beautiful, had on a red and gold outfit from the wedding she’d just been too. I’m in an old t shirt and newly baggy jeans, hair all over and no makeup. Oh well. BUT, she invited me to a wedding at her masjid next month….some distant relative getting married. I’m really excited to go! Insha Allah she and I will continue chugging toward our goal of unity and friendship and sisterhood between now and then. I did make another du’a before going out to meet her to keep the ick feeling at bay and it did stay away Alhamdulillah. Pretty soon it will be gone altogether happy

  • Gail

    May 18, 2013

    Kim,
    Yeah I know.See Hubby was in some kind of relationship with a woman from our community he swears they were just friends but I read the emails and he called her sexy and complained about me.This relationship went on for 7 years nearly our entire marriage.Part of me hates him for what he did and I can’t find a way to forgive him.I just see him as the exposed liar that he is.I don’t even know if he had sexual relations with that woman.Of course he swears he didn’t but well as we well know he is not an outstanding citizen by any means.I think they were messing around.I am unforgiving on that topic and secretly despise him if u can imagine.This is why I am dying for a social life so bad and to work and make my own money.I know there will come a day when my kids are older that I will snub him totally and chances walk away.I would have been more forgiving towards his adulterous affairs had he not been such a turd about my first love seriously.

  • Gail

    May 18, 2013

    Tina,
    Welcome to 411 I am Gail.I am glad u decided to post.I love hearing from other woman married to Pakistani men and how their lives are going.
    So when is the Wedding? How much do u understand about Pakistani Culture?

  • Kim

    May 18, 2013

    @ Gail,

    Oh, I get that, totally get that. I wasn’t suggesting that you were contemplating adultery. (Yeah, I was for me, but only fleeting out of anger. I wouldn’t ever do it. As I told M the other night, “I have never in my life cheated on my spouse….I have way too much integrity and respect for my spouse and for myself to ever do such a thing”. A nice little zinger, since his cheating is what landed us where we are LOL….)

    I totally understand that you’re feeling pretty disappointed and disillusioned and unhappy with where things are right now between you and your husband. I’ve been there too. All I want you to reflect on is simply not making permanent decisions to “fix” problems that in all likelihood with the passage of time will prove to be temporary. He’s going through whatever thing he’s going through. In-laws hanging about are not helping, I know that. And yeah, to be honest I think if you guys went back to Pakistan, despite the issues there, you might be able to better move forward, and do so together as a strong united couple. Allah only knows best, but I think you are feeling like a hamster on a wheel, going and going and going exactly nowhere, staying in the same place. You guys need something to drive you forward, something positive to work together on.

  • ~Fatima~

    May 18, 2013

    Hi Everyone..
    Hope everyone is having a good weekend so far..?
    @Jenny.. Did you already do the IVF? If you mentioned it on here I could not find it. Iknow you are in the Euopean countries now.. and headed home after Switerland.. if I am correct.. Well, just let us know how it went …
    @ Gail.. Hamg in there Gail.. really … If your like me I wake up in the middle of the night with all these crazy thoughts about what in the world am I doing here with my hubs? I mean I say this because even though there is no co like you.. its the rest of the family now .. always a problem… drama drama with them all.. never no peace.. Hubby bends over backwards for them all, says I dont understand that they dont have anything and life is so hard over there..
    I think maybe your hubby puts a lot of strain on you with his family around.. and your so overwhelmed with hearing all the brother in law sister in law .. and who married and divorced who.. and who is backstabbing who.. and la dee da… on and on..
    I mean no wonder you are feeling the way you are.. I would take Jennys advice and use the outlaws..oops I meant inlaws for a live in babysitter and you and your husband go away.. far away. and spend some good time together….. I think you think of your first love perhaps because you have nothing but good memories with him.. and you like Jenny says escape into those past good moments and wish you could capture them again.. Maybe Im wrong but I might be on the right track…
    @ Kim.. Bless your heart.. I can sure tell you are really trying .. I can tell by your words.. It will be fine.. really it will…
    I am a bit tired tonight.. Flea market was busy as usual.. seems like today was baby ear piercing day.. I dont mind.. but sometimes those babies are so tiny and fragile.. but their parents still want them to have pierced ears.. I always have some kind of treat for the ear piercers.. lol lollipops or I have a treasure box filled with all kinds of little toys they can choose from… happy
    Well, will check in again later or tomorrow…

  • Gail

    May 18, 2013

    Jenny & Kim,
    Listen girls I am not speaking of some wild adulterous affair.I am not that kind of person and do have high morals.It is the talking I asked him when we met to be open book for me and he was and at the time I didn’t realize how much I missed that.Look I am not jumping ship anytime soon.I just felt like hubby was a turd and acting like a complete A$$.I felt I was more than fair when he wanted to start polygamy and I supported him but OH NO when it comes my turn to be supported I get the talk to the hand attitude.It doesn’t sit well with me.The truth is I would never cheat on my husband.I might divorce him outright and remarry but I would never cheat.
    As far as hubby and I going off on any trip FAT CHANCE!! he is a workaholic to the core and will not miss a day of work esp now since he is building this huge home in DHA in Islamabad.Then after that he has more business plans in the works so his next 10 years is booked now in saying that get more than enough action in the bedroom well actually more than most woman He is pretty regular stud needing everyday up to a couple times a day.So no complaints at all in that department happy to say.The one nice thing about my husband I must say is that he is HOT HOT HOT.(LOL) But as for his communication skills well frankly he lacks in that department.
    Yeah it is not an Adultery thing at all just wanting a life.I want to go out and enjoy and not be stuck at home 24/7.I told hubby to send me back to Pakistan at least there I can go to parties and hang out and enjoy my life not to mention put the children in School.I am looking to add to my life not throw it away.

  • Maureen

    May 18, 2013

    Salam Ana,
    I pray you’re keeping well ‘n all is fine with you ‘n your husband.

    Yes, I am still hospitalized but the baby is doing fine so far, alhamdu li Allah.
    It’s a boy by the way.

    I just have a question for you ‘n the ladies here ‘n would like to hear/read your input. It may be out of subject, but it would really mean a lot.
    It’s nearly 3 am where I live ‘n I just can’t sleep sad

    Does the 2. Have the right to know about the first (wife)’s pregnancy. Does the husband have to tell the 2nd the news ( his first wife’s pregnancy) in the first place or it is something private ‘n it’s not of her business knowing that?

    Why do men do this ‘n share these kinds of informations without even speaking with their first wife?
    Is it better if the 2nd knows?

    My hubby told his 2nd this last Thu about my pregnancy. He did tell her that ‘n that the baby does have an XXY syndrome, which is not the case alhamdu li Allah much for that.
    He let me know about this conversation with Nr. 2. Today. When I asked him why he did that, he told me to make her feel better. She has lost everything ‘n has a miserable life ‘n I do not want to have children with her due to her alcoholism so I wanted to make it kind of easier on her. That’s why.

    I do not know what to think of this ‘n how/what to feel right now.
    Thank you for your comments in advance ladies ‘n have a good night/say wherever you are guys.

    Much love ‘n Salams Xxx
    M

  • J

    May 18, 2013

    Kim

    sometimes I really wish I knew how you looked like, I love your welcome responses. Like you said once, it would be great to put a face behind every name lol.

  • J

    May 18, 2013

    Gail

    When a marriage is in trouble and previous love is in mind…oh boooooy that smells like trouble. Word or no word, temptation and desires over come people all the time, some men are like that they are very jealous and insecure. I cant really advise you like everyone else can, but there must be something you two can do to work on your marriage? To make the tension die down, to rekindle the fire? You know your situation best, you definitely cant get rid of in laws, anyways to get around things so they can get better? I hope they do. Your awesome

  • Kim

    May 18, 2013

    Hi Tina and Welcome to 411! happy

    Thanks for sharing a bit of your story with us. Lots of us are married to Pakistanis or South Asian men (my husband, “M”, is from the Indian side of Kashmir). Fatima, another regular, has a hubby from India, then the many wives of Pakistanis, including our longtimers Gail and Jenny (who btw are not Muslim either).

    So I’m curious….how did you meet your intended, how did he approach you with the idea of being the second wife, and what was your reaction? I’m curious because you said you’re Christian, and pretty much all but the FLDS sect of Mormons are very against polygamy (regardless of the fact that it’s all over the Bible). But the tone of your comment suggests you are quite accepting and in fact looking forward to the journey. That’s awesome, you’re doing great so far!

    I was raised Catholic though non-practicing. Met hubs and married in 08 legally. Took Shahada about a year and a half ago, and we had our Nikah shortly afterwards. M married “N” as his second wife last April and they split at the end of the year, but are working on getting back together Insha Allah (God willing). N is Muslim from birth like M is. She and I both have had major major issues to overcome, but insha Allah this break did some good and we’re ready to do this right this time happy

    Anyway, look forward to hearing more about you Tina!

  • J

    May 18, 2013

    Hey TINA

    Welcome!!! happy glad you wrote. This place is definitely the place to be for talking, advice, understand, and venting. I myself do not have experience with paki men but many ladies here do and will help you understand the culture.

  • Kim

    May 18, 2013

    @ Gail,

    I have to cosign with everything Jenny said. I understand as well as anyone the feeling you have. When I have those heart/head battles going on inside, yes, there have been times (just the other night in fact) when I told M “you know what, I’m gonna find me another guy….even things up a bit. Why should I sit here on your nights with N when hey, I am alive n kicking and ain’t dead yet!”

    There isn’t a particular man in my past I wish to revisit – they’re exes for a reason, but I have spoken these thoughts out loud. M in his flippant way says “go ahead, I can’t stop you” but I don’t really think he truly feels that way and in any case I know my heart would kick the crap out of my head and either I wouldn’t do it or I would and hate myself.

    I’ve also spoken the dreaded “D” word. It’s ridiculous….think about it Gail. If you haven’t split with your husband through the worst of things, why do it now? That’s what I tell myself. I might threaten it when I’m at my absolute worst, but I’m still here happy And the grass sho nuff ain’t greener, promise. You have a lot invested with your husband and family, if you just bail all of that would have been a waste. It would have been for nothing.

    M is meeting N later – she worked this morning, as did I, and had a wedding she is at as we speak. But since her schedule is insane with work all this coming week she wanted to at least see him for a little bit today. Normally he goes there the night before she has a day off but she doesn’t have a day off at all this week. I have no real objection, provided if it turns into an all-nighter I get a bit more advanced notice than I got last time LOL…even though that time worked out beautifully for me Alhamdulillah.

    I’m off to the halal market for lamb and stuff and left her a voice mail to call if she wants anything from there. I’m trying….really trying hard.

  • Jenny

    May 18, 2013

    @ Gail,

    Gail, Gail, Gail… What am I going to do with you? Holy cow, I’m trying to get a little sleep because in a few hours we have to get to the airport. Going to Switzerland, then home. I was up for a second and read your post so I had to jump on for a minute to reel you back into reality.

    First, the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. When you go to the other side of the fence, chances are, the grass is green because it is over the septic tank. You have been apart from this man all of your adult life! How can you throw away your family based in a childhood romance??? What you are doing is “escaping.”

    If you were ever going to pursue this relationship with this man, do it when you are not married! Doing while you are married is insane and not of G-d.

    Second, what will you do to your children? Is it worth wrecking their home life so you can get an itch scratched? If that is the case, get a vibrator, and let your children remain happy. Once you have children, your life is no longer yours to do as you please. Your “happiness” comes secondary to theirs.

    Third, you have an obligation to work on your marriage. You need to put your foot down or do some kind of counseling. I don’t know what. You are having problems I don’t have, but you have to remain levelheaded. Since your inlaws are around, demand to your husband that the two of you go away somewhere for a few days. Take advantage of the built in babysitters. Being away does wonders; especially, when it is just the two of you. We live for our trips.

    If you chose to throw your marriage away, that is entirely your decision, but it requires a conscious action before you run to your old flame.

    Stop your mid-life crisis. Work on your marriage and stop daydreaming of him. The psych field call it escapism.

  • Leigh

    May 18, 2013

    @Gail

    Fajr & maghrib are two of the 5 prayer times. Fajr is the morning prayer and it is the time of day that the sky just starts to lighten in the morning but BEFORE the sun actually comes up. Maghrib is opposite. Maghrib starts when the sun falls below the horizon. happy

  • Tina

    May 18, 2013

    Hi All,

    I have been reading your posts for quite some time and am finding it very helpful. I am going to become a second wife to a Pakistani man whose first wife is also Pakistani.. I am Christian and live in Canada.. The man I am marrying has lived in Canada for about 20 years and his first wife came over to Canada about 4 years ago. I am the same age as the man I am marrying, 45 and his first wife is younger 29, they have one young child. I have been researching the pros and cons of Polygamy, ways to live, problems that may be encountered, etc. I will be living apart for the first couple of years and he will be sharing his time, but after that we all hope to plan and live together.. strike that he plans for us all to live together. I know his first wife isn’t crazy about the idea of her husband having a second wife, even though he made it clear before they married that he wanted multiple wives.. so I do want to be very respectful of her anxiety and concerns. I just wanted to say I enjoy reading this blog and feel it will be a useful place to come and learn from all of your experiences..Tina

  • Gail

    May 18, 2013

    Leigh,
    I personally am not muslim and don’t know what that thing is u are talking about.I get that it is time for the individual wives but what are the exact times u are talking.Do u mean night till morning like this?Sundown to sunup?Just curious as my own hubby is muslim and he never said anything about it.

  • Gail

    May 18, 2013

    Sarata,
    If hubby is speaking another language to cowife then take my advice and try to learn that labguage if u don’t it’s going to screw u up mentally because I been there and done that.I never had an issue with my husband speaking Punjabi when we first married but when the truth came out OH BOY!! Now it bothers me more than I can express.Excowife played games and toyed with me and hubby because I didn’t know Punjabi.She got her rocks off on it.that was one of my demands that we all speak in English so I could understand since they both spoke English well after she started showing her A$$ she told hubby she can’t understand english well enough to chat yet she has only chatted with me for the last 10 years in english go figure.I told hubby she was lying and doing it so I would not understand what they talked and he wouldn’t translate alot of times and I was like what is she saying etc..I got so sick to death of it really fast and started holding grudges against him and still to this day it has the same effect on me even he is speaking to his parents.NOPE it has made me mental because of all his lies and he hid all his lies through his Punjabi language.So my advice is learn the language or go MADDDD!!!

    Kim,
    I honestly see myself in you.The polygamous life u are desiring was also my same desire.I truly wanted it to work.In my case excowife is never coming back because hubby will never accept her back because his sister is getting divorced from cowife brother and has turned into a family fued the size of the Hatfields and Mcoys boy what a mess and my inlwas are in so much tension.SO much so I feel I need to distance myself from them.OH MY they are 24/7 in tension.
    One thing I am learning though is that life rarely turns out the way u plan it.I planed for a great life with my hubby and I was awesome when we first got married but now today I am like who gives a crap do what u want.Hubby and I stayed up all night talking and bickering and it all started over a flat tire and him not putting his tire changer in the vehicle because 3 days before we had a flat tire and he didn’t have the tire changer.So naturally I was angry because we went to eat and well we got to the parking lot of CHili’s but we didn’t eat because of the tire issue.Ruined our entire night .That was not the real issue though as I am feeling now liked a cage bird by husband and I have told his as much I am holding a grudge against him to be honest because of my dear friend and first love.I want so much to reach out to him and make certain he is ok and that he didn’t think I played with his emotions.It is so important to me that he knows I would never do that with him but because of my husband and his lack of understanding towards my personal issue I am less than cordial with hubby these days.My husband is not understanding or caring about the most important person in my life and yeah it really is weighing on me very hard.I don’t expect my husband to care but why on earth if I have given my word that I would never cheat on him why would he make such a fuss for me to reach out to my first love esp after his polygamy episode.
    In my case with my first love I adore him I have always adored him.He is the only person in my entire life that has opened up to em and shared himself totally with me.People need different things in their lives and for me I need and desire an honest person in my life.R is and always has been that person for me.I don’t know if it is wrong to love another man as much as I do R but the reality is I do love R so much and I care about him so deeply in a platonic way of course.Some days It feels like I can’t breath and I was only born to live a caged life.I see R as my freedom in this life my glorious freedom.I wonder what freedom really feels like.I was a complete idiot to deny him and not meet him.What I wouldn’t give to see his face.Life is very cruel sometimes.

  • Sarata

    May 18, 2013

    @Kim I hear you re the bipolar thing lol!
    I was wishing we could all be seperate so that when he’s with co I can try the “out of sight out of mind” thing. So I could prepare for my time. Knowing when he’d be around and when he wouldn’t.
    I don’t do spontaneity very well.
    All living together will be nice In’shaa Allāh once I’ve got used to the idea maybe.
    But how it will be now is, when he’s not at work he will be around. Regardless of whose night it will be. If he’s outside I’ll be wondering where he’s going – here or there.
    Where we live people spend a lot of time outside and you can hear people chatting etc.
    Already when he’s in the phone I’m wondering of its to her – crazy I know what diff does it make to me?! But I don’t know the language well enough to grasp whole conversations yet – another paranoia trigger I’ve found that has never bothered me until now.

    Anyway, I’m guessing that Allahs plan is to throw me right in at the deep end it must be what’s best for us In’shaa Allāh.

    My head vs heart is the other way round from u I think lol.
    My heart wants it to be me & hub as its been for the past 8 years. Same dreams and plans for out happy little family.
    But my heads saying don’t be selfish this could all work out lovely. Submit to Allahs will and have a happy family – In’shaa Allāh head, In’shaa Allāh! laughing

  • Kim

    May 18, 2013

    Asalaam Aleikum Leigh,

    I’m aware of the Maghrib to Fajr time division but we never followed it by mutual agreement. Work schedules and life in general just didn’t accommodate it and I never wanted M to feel like he had to punch a time clock in and out between N and me. At the beginning, yes we were pretty possessive of “our time”, days as well as nights, but it was impossible to accommodate that and after a few issues we relaxed.

    I remember one HUGE fight they had when his daughter was in town and wanted to come for dinner at my house during one of N’s days. N demanded M pay her back (or I pay her back) that time, even though it was only a few hours of an evening. That was when he told her straight up his days are HIS and he can be wherever he likes. Near that time N was transferring apartments and moved during one of my days and he went to help her.

    She expected I’d explode and when I didn’t she was nonplussed, but it motivated her to chill out except one time I worked at the restaurant during the day on the day he was going to come to me for our nights, and N saw me there. Holy COW. That was the first and only time she mentioned “Maghrib” as the cut-off time, that he was hers til Maghrib, after which he was to be on my time so why was I at the restaurant when she dropped him off. Even though he was going to work anyway so they wouldn’t be together, she was really upset.

    THAT is the kind of crap I deeply desire to avoid, and I assume N does too this time around from what she has told me and M himself. M, well, obviously, as the rope in this insane tug of war, wants no part of this sort of thing. He goes to N when he goes. He comes home when he comes home. That’s it.

  • Kim

    May 18, 2013

    @Gail,

    Thanks for the encouraging words. I feel good about things. Sure I have my moments (see: above, regarding head vs. heart) but at the end of the day I know I won’t go anywhere. It’s hard, but nothing worth fighting for is easily obtained. I agree, had your hubs and ex-co stayed together, I think you all would have found a way for it to work for all of you. I understand you feel some regret or guilt about it not working out, and now you wonder what could have been.

    I found myself there when I first asked M if he thinks about N, which is what set their reunion in motion. I should feel blessed that I have the opportunity to find out “what could have been”. I might feel some regret opening my mouth in the first place, but it obviously was destined to happen sooner or later. So here it is and here we are happy

  • Kim

    May 18, 2013

    Asalaam Aleikum dear Sarata,

    You said a mouthful…”as much as you wish things to be different, you keep trying, masha Allah”. You are SO right. The crux of the matter is HOW I want things different.

    This is where bipolar Kim comes out to play, where the heart and the head are at crossroads. You see, during M’s “time off” from N, I tried to re-embrace monogamy, but you know what, it was hard. Really hard. The irony is that yes, polygamy was battle royal, whether between M and me, M and N, or me and N. I didn’t know which way was up sometimes and all I wanted was for things the way they used to be. But with time, and with M proving he was not leaving me for her and kept everything as fair and just as possible with dividing time and income and all that, I eventually got used to it, to the point it became routine. I was settling in. And then BAM, they split and he was back with me fulltime. I was like whoaaaaa now…and the readjustment was really REALLY tough.

    Eventually, monogamy became, well, “monotony” and I found myself missing the things polygamy had brought to my marriage. Excitement at seeing M, the anticipation of his return home, the enjoyment of our time together. The difficulties/insecurity/anxiety/anger at times/jealousy (let’s call it what it is, shall we?) that came with all that sort of faded into unimportance. His back and nerve problems got worse, and I found myself having to really bite my tongue with impatience with his moods. My…well…desire for “the do” dwindled again to pretty much nothing. And yes, as much as N and I had a warm/icy on and off relationship, I truly did wonder how she was doing, opened my mouth about it to M and the rest is history.

    SO…I’m back in the crazy polygamy game, or headed that way at least, and my moods and attitude are back to that mercurial up and down and all around. Much of it stems on if N and I communicate or not – I pinned that down, and WHAT we communicate about. I love the idea of the three of us hanging out together as a family, which is what I’d always wanted should I find myself ever in polygamy. I hate the dividing wall. I hate the cutting off and the pressure on M about phone calls and all that nonsense. It’s just not how I roll.

    I hate when he feels put on the spot by either of us. Like last night, I go to the store with my son and when I get back he’s on the phone with her. He tells me she called. No problem. I paid his cell phone bill this morning after they texted him that it’s past due (forgot to pay it yesterday) and when I go to his account his call history comes up. He called HER, when he’d said she’d called him. Why lie? There’s absolutely zero need and I don’t want him to feel like he has to. Ugh.

    I hate the comparison charts and scorecards and I never want them back in my life again. I’m so done with that. On more than one occasion last year she’d complain or I’d complain that he was spending more time on the phone with the other. I went so far as to print out a month’s worth of call history and ADD UP THE MINUTES he spent on the phone with each of us. Yeah, it was that bad. I feel sometimes the temptation to go there again, which is ridiculous because he’s with me an overwhelming amount of time so of course he’s on the phone with her more. Sheesh.

    Anyways…I’m rambling on like a fool. Just know Sarata that everything you’re feeling is normal, good co, bad co, good hubs, bad hubs, the feelings happen. They’re much easier to deal with when you all are in it together without the walls up, and can be open, honest, and communicate accordingly with all parties.

    It often is, as in my case, a battle of the head and the heart. When the head says one thing and the heart says another, you feel that internal tug of war going on. I know that one all too well. That’s been the jihad of polygamy for me. My heart keeps me with M no matter what happens. My heart wants a wonderful friendship with N. My head is battling the entire thing. It’s exhausting…the heart and head need to come to terms with each other and with Allah’s help they will get there happy

  • Leigh

    May 18, 2013

    As salaamu alaikum ladies,

    Just wanted to chime in about division of time.

    Some of you had mentioned your husbands not being there for important events because it was the Co’s day. I remember during the midst of my polygamy journey I was reading like crazy and I came across something. I can’t remember exactly but I think it was sahih bukhari. It said that in regards to dividing nights to the wives the nights are from maghrib to fajr and that is the time that is designated to the wives. So from fajr to maghrib the husband doesn’t have an obligation to any particular wife. He’s free to do whatever he wants basically. Just like the prophet Muhammad use to visit all his wives during the day and then spend the nights with whoever a night it was. So there’s no Islamic reason for the husbands to have to miss and special occasion that falls between fajr and maghrib. Obviously as polygamous wives its easier said then done because we feel like our “nights” also includes the daytime depending on how you divide your own schedule. We make things more difficult on ourselves when we demand the days Belong to us as well. I’m guilty of it as well. We don’t celebrate birthdays ourselves, only the two EIDs but if its an issue in your family then maybe that can help. A father shouldn’t be torn between his wives and his kids. It may be more difficult in the winter when the days are shorter and maghrib comes in earlier but if the cowives seek peace they will work together to make the kids happy. happy if anyone needs me to look up and provide proof of what I’m saying ill try to look it up for you inshallah. happy

  • Sarata

    May 18, 2013

    @Kim
    Yeh I’m sure it must be worse with an manipulative co or a useless husband – Alhamdulillah mine are neither! 
    But if she were horrid or he was inconsiderate and rubbish – at least I’d have some actual reason to direct my negative emotions at. 
    As it is – they are both amazing people so I think I’m turning my stress inward if that makes sense? Kind of blaming myself, beating myself up about being such a bad person having all these negative feelings. 
    But I know it’s Normal and now that I’m a bit less of a blubbering wreck, I can start to fight it. 
    I know this is exactly what shaytan wants so I’m not having it. 
    At the end of the day,  it’s not even about hub&Co – it’s about me & Allah so of shaytan thinks he can push me away from my rabb he is mistaken! *insert lioness roar here* (ok, maybe more Simba from Lion King – but u get me right? hee hee

    @Gail
     I may well end up in those cosy little situations you describe. (occasionally maybe, once we’re all more used to the situ.)
    We quite often go places together already. 
    To be fair to her though, as torturous as it may be for me when he’s spending quality time with her – I dont want to give up all my alone times with hub so I won’t expect her to either. 
    It’s a shame your polygamous experience didn’t work out tho – it sounds like the ex would have had a great cowife in you! (as long as she realised that obv, the Pakistani culture, over there at least, sounds a bit mental lol!)
    I have many Pakistani friends in the uk but jeez they are nothing like some of the families I’ve read about on this blog! 
    I have the issue of being the “foreigner” here a little – but nothing really negative – just misconceptions about how much money we have etc. many people assume I’m Arab before they meet me (because i wear hijab but have pale skin) – so they are confused  once they realise I’m English lol!
    Thanks again for the support & the virtual “Snap out of it girl” slaps that I needed lol! big grin

    @Aishah
    I hope your hub shapes up for the birthday situations. Does ur co have kids? Times like this it’s beneficial to get along with co I imagine. 

    @Kim 
    I agree with Gail – you sound like an amazing person and as much as you may prefer things to be different you always keep trying Mashallah!

  • Gail

    May 18, 2013

    Aishah,
    All is going well for u I hope.

  • Gail

    May 18, 2013

    Kim,
    I have to say I am very proud of you.I really like your enduring personality.I think if u hang in there and keep strong u and M and N will make it.I know it’s hard but u sure have a great personality and I really have faith in your that u will succeed.Had my polygamous marriage worked out I would had kept trying with her like u are doing with N.As my sweet Grandmother use to say You have to take the bitter with the sweet!
    Glad u got your check.

  • Gail

    May 18, 2013

    Sarata,
    If I had to live the lifestyle u are describing I would not be able to live it in all fairness.
    We never practiced polygamy where the wives are separated and hubby gives each wife individual time.I would never agree to practice polygamy that way.Thats just not my cup of tea.
    We were one family unit and we acted as a one family unit we all watched T.V together talked together and hung out together.For me that the only way I would ever be able to practice polygamy because I told my husband I would never share him I would rather divorce than loose half my time esp when it was not my fault and he had lied to me about cowife no thank you.I know muslims do it different but my husband and cowife were both muslims and they both agreed with my demands.
    Even living the one family system was hard make no mistakes about it but it was a heck of a lot nicer than having to split time to be honest.Now granted this is just me but why not go and sit and relax with hubby and cowife and enjoy watch a movie spend all your time together as a unit until u sleep only at bedtime since u are muslims then hubby go with one wife is that not so much easier.I say come up with some unique ways that are going to make u happy.Be original.Just because everyone else has separate times don’t mean u have to do the same unless u want to of course.
    I am glad u are feeling better today.You really are lucky u know to have such a wonderful cowife.I know u have emotions all over the place and believe me when I tell u if you didn’t have these crazy emotions I wouldn’t think u were human.Also don’t be crazy in comparing yourself to your cowife.Everyone has their own qualities and are special and unique in their own way so you have nothing to worry about as far as she is better than u etc…Everything will be fine u will see.

  • Kim

    May 17, 2013

    Asalaam Aleikum sis Aishah,

    Ah yes, the dreaded special occasions we have to fanangle into things, or THEY (the husbands) have to fanangle into things. Been there. Done that. I was pretty twisted out of shape that M was with N on his birthday, my older son’s birthday and my youngest son’s birthday last year. N got twisted because apparently his and my Nikah (we were legally married years before we had Nikah) was somewhere near her daughter’s birthday, and that Sunday was some kind of event he didn’t attend because of it. Well, he was on my time anyway, but yeah.

    IMO…this is only my opinion and I know in your situation it won’t work having it as a “joint family” type of thing, is that the dad should make time to spend with the kids on their birthdays. Even if it isn’t your night. Last year, for my youngest’s birthday, M arrived with N and they picked up my son and took him to get him some gifts, letting him pick out stuff, got ice cream, etc. It wasn’t the perfect solution by any means….had N and I been friendly, we could have had a party or something together. I did invite her up, through M, but she declined. Oh well, I tried.

    I’ve told M a few times because he has a memory for dates like a sieve, that my older son’s high school graduation is June 2, and he’d best be there, no matter whose night it is. He assured me he would be. I’ll have to remind him a few more times as the date gets closer though tongue

  • Kim

    May 17, 2013

    Asalaam Aleikum,

    @ Gail & J: Yeah we had a nice talk, still are kind of addressing things as the evening progresses, but now that my youngest is home from playing football with his cronies we had dinner and chilled. I did come to a pretty clear conclusion, though…the ONLY way I will be able to do this again is if we’re truly a team. As in, N and I work hard at building our own relationship besides that which binds us, unwittingly or no (M). When she and I talk and laugh together on the phone, or I offer her advice on work issues or cooking or whatever, we’re great. When M comes up, I want to run screaming (depending of course on the context in which he comes up). Meaning, if she starts bringing up his past stuff or their past stuff or some real or imagined crisis they’re having, nuh-uh. I bow out quick.

    N has not been calling when I’m home or awake and that bugs, because we all 3 agreed the phone call issue needs not be an issue. If she wants to call and talk to him, by all means, whether I’m here or not, and maybe I’d like to say hello. So today I left her a voicemail to that effect, saying I hadn’t talked to her in a few days, how are you, etc….reaching out so it’s clear I’m trying.

    Sarata, either what you’re feeling is perfectly normal; at least I think so, because I’ve had every single last one of those feelings. Isn’t it funny….a bad co-wife is a thorn in our side (but the benefit, if you want to call it that, is that if WE keep it together, we’re the one who looks good), but a good co-wife can be an equal thorn in our side ( she’s better than me, he’ll prefer being with her, blah blah blah). So yeah….all that and more, you’re feeling everything I have/am. It’s a tough road but one that has been traveled and you can make it, I know you can happy

    @J, not all the current tension is related to M/N/me. It’s some long past stuff of mine that’s come back and M is having a tough time with it. But we’re getting through it, insha Allah. It’s something I kept from him our entire relationship but necessity made it such that I had to open up about an extremely painful year of my life and the effects of it. That’s all I can say right now.

    @Gail, as I said, the talk’s gone well. I’ve had a few episodes of frustration, and it is SO hard to keep “my place” when I hear stuff that pisses me off. He had to tell me like 4 or 5 times, “I am handling it, ok???” Fine….I just don’t want patterns of “N says jump M says how high” happening again. It infuriates me. (N’s tendency to be possessive is what that’s about, possessive and controlling). It doesn’t affect me whatsoever…she’s not controlling ME, so he’s right that I shouldn’t get upset…’course he shouldn’t tell me some things, either LOL… Oh and I got my paycheck – in paper form. Some dude ran it over to the worksite so I’m good Alhamdulillah happy

  • Aishah 2013

    May 17, 2013

    May birthday month not Mitsubishi

  • Aishah 2013

    May 17, 2013

    Salaams to all.to the newbies to this way of life its all normal to have those feelings.with time and prayer it subsides to a degree and you get so much stronger.doesn’t mean that there are not still roller coaster emotional times.I am kind of having some now.Mitsubishi month of kids birthdays..I have kinda finetuned flexed the schedule so that he is here on their nights (by flexed I mean I have given some up worked with it so that I don’t have to ask for my kids dad to be with them then.that kinda sounds crazy!!but last year was horrendous he wasn’t around on their birthdays (I wrote Co a note and he delivered it requesting his presence those nights so they both played it wrong.we hadn’t remet and done schedule at that time.I thought they were both very selfish.kids were crying upset.I have definitely told him he can’t do again I wont let it happen to them again…so I feel like my sometimes post traumatic stress kind of feeling like it was so bad painful and don’t wanna have it happen again!

  • Sarata

    May 17, 2013

    @J 
    Jazak-Allahu khayran for the 
    Yeh we have been a bit quiet lately. I spoke to her about the situation last week (before my mini meltdown) and I explained that I have my little issues so if I’m ever a bit quiet it will be nothing personal – just me battling my naffs & shaytan. (&If she ever says / does anything to offend me I’ll address it with her.)
    She understands. She knows it’s part of her culture and not strange for her and that it’ll take some getting used to. We resolved to pray to Allah to help us down this rd. 
    She’s a really great person Mashallah but that kind of adds to my jealousy lol!
    She’s always been great with my son – he totally loves her. It’s nice in a way that she’s always gonna be around – once I’ve got past all this emotional nonsense anyway!

    @Gail
    I know you are right. I’ve snapped out of it a bit today Alhamdulillah. 
    Firstly I would never mistreat my co wife. She’s my good friend and a beautiful person. 
    I have already explained to her that I’m struggling a lot more than I expected – but that In’shaa Allāh is something I have to work through and nothing personal about her.
    I think my main issue is the thought of sitting at home while my hubs is up at her apartment (we have apartments on our rooftop)
    The thoughts of him relaxing up there with her having a lovely time while I’m downstairs stewing is what’s eating me I think. 
    It’s not even about sex so much (although that does light a fuse lol!) more about imagining the way he is with me (lovely) with someone else. 
    It’s not like I can even go out anywhere & take my mind off it as my toddler sleeps after sunset so I’m kinda trapped in the same vicinity which is hard for me to deal with. At 1st especially. Plus I don’t have the support network like I had in the uk do I feel kind of isolated. 

    I’m aware that this depressed state isn’t / can’t be permanent – I’m really trying to fix up. It’s just hard when ur self esteem is taking a bashing!
    Also, I prev thought I had my feelings somewhat under control – so all this emotional stuff caught me off guard completely!
    I’m not a dramatic or overly jealous& emotional person usually – and I def don’t want to become one!
    Maybe getting all this out of my system means I’ll be a bit more prepared when the marriage is actually finalised! (any day now)

    I do love the idea of us all being a team – I know for many with difficult co wives it’s an impossible dream – so I am grateful for my blessings despite my current state! x

  • Gail

    May 17, 2013

    How is everyone doing I thought I would check in and see how everyone is doing.I am assuming Ana is off enjoying her anniversary and we know Jenny is off doing her thing to get preggers!

    J,
    I also like SUV’s they are really nice .

    Kim,
    I hope your talk with hubby clears the air for the both of u and u get your paycheck in your account soon.

    Sarata,
    You need to sit down and seriously start giving thought to what your emotional distress is all about.If it is simply the thought of not wanting to share you are going to have to force yourself to get past that and be really hard on yourself.It is not going to serve u any purpose to keep hanging on to this negative emotion.You need to concentrate and get that emotion out of your body to be frank because it is like a cancer that is going to eat away at you.
    Why do u not want cowife around you?Because you can’t emotionally handle it.What can u not emotionally handle you are a grown adult u know what men and woman do and what do u think by keeping her away from u thats going to magically change your circumstance REALLY?If your cowife is good with you then why on earth would u mistreat her?would u want the same thing done to you if u were her?It really is a choice you will have to make to either rise above your emotions and do what is right or throw it away.Most people throw the cowife away and just act as if they are not part of their life but I really can’t see how cowives do this to each other.
    Ok try for awhile to think positive thoughts and try something for me.You are already miserable so try this idea if u can and see how u feel.Think of what it would be like if u and hubby and cowife could hang out together go out to eat and all three of u enjoy each other company make plans for the future together and be one amazing team working together and replacing all your negative emotions with positive ones.
    Think can I let go of my Control Issues and let co have some control about what goes on in the family unit in what are the positives in letting her have some control without becoming angry understand.
    This is just another way that u can look at your life.It is a good way and sensible way and a G.D fearing positive way to look at things.Granted I am not a Muslim but could it just be possible that instead of looking at Polygamy as a some trial or test of faith you should be looking at it as a major blessing in your life.You will have another woman beside you to talk with about family maters help u and encourage you and u can be the same for her.It just a thought.Honestly to me it is just crazy to agree with Polygamy then don’t want nothing to do with your co thats like cutting your own throat if she is a good person.
    Granted their are not good cowifes and sometimes it might be better to take a time out from them but it is never in my opinion to just write people off or be emotionally indifferent towards them.Now I am not saying be an idiot and let a foreign cowife serve u or abuse u but instead use your head and figure out how to achieve goals slowly when it comes to a nasty cowife.After all u have plenty of time to work things out.A lifetime to be exact.

  • J

    May 17, 2013

    Oh boy I was about to say the same thing it was a little bit quite here, I was so used to seeing a whole bunch of comment everyday and reading lol!!

    Alhamdulillah

    Thank you everyone for writing back, am having a pretty good so far i did not wake up with a whole bunch of sadness.

    Kim

    ***HUG received and appritiated lol***hope your talk with M goes well, what with the tension?? All this stuff is his problems, he better figure them out. I figure they get into to this, they need to deal with it and make it work. It is not our jobs to make everything easy for them. Its there resposibilty.

    Sarata

    Jazakillah khair, I will keep you in my duaa as well and everyone here inshaAllah. ppssh girl I know right I dont want my co next to me either but I also dont want hub far away. this sucks. has your future co said anything to you? or are you guys on the quite side lately?? you are already very strong for being okay with her being around your child mashaAllah. Am telling you wake up and remember Allah much, and make your self look awesome not like your out to a wedding lol but simple and beautiful and do it for yourself your going to feel better. I do at least. and trust me it will get your hubs attention lol

    Ka126

    Yup dealing with all these personalities is hard, thats why its better just not to deal with co’s at all and keep it all the talking to a minimum, especially when the other person only has bad intentions. InshaAllah may Allah ease your heart happy Are you upset about your hub not taking steps for no more kids because you think he will have them with co?

    Aisha2013

    InshaAllah I will be going back for the first part of the interview and I hope everything goes well. woohooo. If i get this job I hope we will be able to purchase a new car. A seven seat like a nice SUV i love big cars lool

  • Arica

    May 17, 2013

    @KA126, I am not sure if you are a convert or not, I can’t remember. I think that you are mixing up some Islamic words. Sunnah and Halal. I have wanted to comment before regarding this. Please don’t be offended , things can be confusing! Trust me I learn lots everyday. Sunnah is living the way the Prophet (SWS) did. Doing things he did. For a man it can be having a beard or wearing your pants short so that they don’t cover your ankles. Things like this. You mentioned living with your cowife being Sunnah, as far as I know, this is not Sunnah. Please someone correct me if i am wrong. The Prophets wives did not live together. It is halal if the wives agree to this living arrangement, but again it is not Sunnah as this is not how the Prophet (SWS) lived. But it is not forbidden (harram) for them to live together.

    You asked is it Sunnah for you to stop relations with your husband. You really mean is it Halal, meaning allowed in Islam. Halal is something that Allah says is something we are allowed in general terms.

    Please again don’t be offended and inshallah i gave you correct information. If anyone else knows better please correct me on this happy

  • Kim

    May 17, 2013

    J, Asalaam Aleikum, ((((HUGS)))))

    I hope you’re doing better now. You’re gonna have days like this, for awhile. and Insha Allah your ease comes soon.

    It’s been very quiet here all of a sudden! What’s up sisters?

    We’re chugging along (lol Ana)…things are ok. There’s tension with M and I but he wants to talk after I get home from work tonight. Insha Allah we can, and do so quietly and clear the air. I hate this tension. It’s a lot of stuff, not just or really N but of course that situation factors into my mindset. He and I will be ok insha Allah, it’s just a number of things heaping up on our plate. *sigh* Always something.

    So to top off this lovely week of overtime, my pay never hit my bank account today. Oh yeah, I love working, and putting in mandatory overtime, for FREE. Someone better come up with some cash and fast. I checked the temp agency’s website in the employee e-pay section and it says “service unavailable”. FIGURES! Grrrrrrr.

  • Sarata

    May 17, 2013

    @J
    Sister I know completely how you’re feeling. And I’m not even fully into the situation yet!
    I told hub I don’t wanna live in the same compound as co – I don’t even wanna be in the area.
    Yes she’s my friend but I can’t deal with with this horrible feeling on a daily basis – but Allah give me patience as it appears I don’t actually have a choice! sad

    I too have been reluctant to call my mum on Skype. She’s grieving and needs all the support she can get but if she thinks there’s something wrong she’ll be worried and she really doesn’t need anything else to worry about right now.
    Plus I’m gonna have to tell her about the situation eventually and she will never be able to believe I’m ok with it if she was to see me now (even if In’shaa Allāh one day I actually am!)

    When I make dua for patience for myself I will make dua for you also.

    I’ve never had much patience but lately my gosh it’s at minus figures!
    I just keep thinking of the one situation that could possibly be worse than this for me and am grateful that situation is not my test. There’s always something worse you could go through.
    But I already feel I’m failing this one before its really begun.

    I’m so grateful for Ana’s blog to vent and talk to people who really understand – May Allah guide & reward us all ameen xx

  • Gail

    May 17, 2013

    KA126,
    Don’t worry so much if it helps pretty much everyone here has been in your shoes one time or the other so u are not alone in your frustrations towards cowife.Believe me when I tell you she will figure out sooner or later.I think most cowives don’t like sharing and it is a secret war between one cowife to the other or between both.I know in my case it was my cowife against me but in all truthfulness I was also ugly back to her a few times also.It really is so silly looking back on it and may G.D forgive me for my silliness towards her.Just because cowife was acting vulgar towards me I should never have let my emotions overcome me.I really do believe if one can’t keep their emotions in check it will lead a person to sin and do acts they would not under normal circumstances do.
    I will say this I was very very good to always tell on my cowife’s face any wrong doing she was up to in front of my husband.I used the truth as my weapon of choice.
    Also don’t worry about keeping yourself guarded around cowife and watching what u say.As long as u are truthful she can’t use anything against you.My rule of thumb was anything I say to cowife I can say to hubby to his face.Never once had a fight with hubby over anything I ever said to cowife even she tried to twist things alot of times but hubby always asked me on her face.Honesty is the best policy.
    KA126 my hubby and cowife were married 3 years before I came into the picture.When hubby married me I had 0% chance we would last.He assumed before day one that the day I found out about him and excowife I would divorce him so he was prepared.Strangely She started out on 100% and I on 0% and she was his cousin to top it off.She is now gone hubby divorced her and she is now on less that 0% and I am over 100%.Hubby said it was because he lost his trust on her over the years and gained his trust on me.I contribute it to my no lying and putting the family first policy.I hope this helps to encourage you.

  • KA126

    May 16, 2013

    Tonight I feel as if i should leave this marriage. The lies, deception, manipulation are taking a toll. My husband told me that he didn’t want anymore children and I embraced that opinion. Tonight I found out that he is not taking steps to not have children. This is just too much to handle. It also saddens me because he is a good man and a great father and fears Allah, but sometimes enough is enough. In sha Allah, Allah SWT will guide me to the correct path to take. Is it Sunnah to deny relations while I decide which path to take?

    @J, I know how you feel. I don’t want to share and even though this lifestyle is permissable, it saddens me to see the pain it causes. Also, the character and personaility of another within the relationship is very difficult.

  • Aishah 2013

    May 16, 2013

    Salaams.J I feel you.work hard to make some things about you..keep praying.plan something for you not just him or kids.set some goals to work towards so you don’t get stuck in a depressed rut.baby steps.don’t be harsh on yourself.find some things you like to read or watch on your time when he is not around.personally I would probably put your strongest face forward for your family…It is hard but after difficulty comes ease.it will get easier.maybe not all the time but maybe little bits at a time.yes go get the job!

  • J

    May 16, 2013

    .
    I spoke way too soon and feel even crappier now SubhaanAllah, He just went out and you know with who. Ugh this sucks. I know they wont be long together though because he has to go to school by 5. so whatever. Totally cried my eyes out while planting at least the plants got some watering lol. sad :’-( And ive been slacking in calling my parents on webcam because am afraid they will see my sadness cause you know parents know. Its been working out a bit because they have been busy remodelling there bathroom.
    Allah is with the patient and Difficulty brings ease.

  • J

    May 16, 2013

    Asalamu Alaykum everyone.

    I had my job test and I passed alhamdulillah, I have to come back for the first part of the interview next week. Am nervous. I feel happy and sad at the same time, makes me wish all this was happening under different circumstances, I love being a stay at home, but I just keep thinking that I need to get on my feet too we dont know what the future holds and if god forbid something were to happen to hub, no one is going to help.
    Its like everything is going pretty well and yet I still cry so much, I think he hasnt seen co in like two weeks am not sure why, and it hurts because I know soon he will and these sad feelings just keep lingering and wont go away. sad I dont want to share

  • Leigh

    May 15, 2013

    @Fatima

    I’m here lol. I read everything just haven’t posted. Things are pretty calm around here for now mashallah. I feel like I flipped a switch a few weeks ago. I had been very angry and annoyed with DH and just all around moody. But then one day I just wasn’t anymore. Not sure why but I’m liking it. I feel happy lately mashallah even though nothing has actually changed except for my additude about it. And I’ve already planned out my big grande acceptance speech for if and when there is a new #2 lol. He’s still coming home late sometimes but I’m not letting the negative feelings linger anymore alhamdulilah. If I’m still awake when he gets home late I just pretend I’m asleep lol. But lately he’s been giving me a kiss on my cheek when he thinks I’m
    Asleep happy. May not seem like much but it is for me. Otherwise nothing much is happening. I did however start working out again and I could Barely walk today lol. I was doing some butt exercises lol and when I was done everytime I took a step my legs felt like jelly. And I can barely walk up the one step from my driveway lol. It’s a good pain though happy. Hope everything is going well with you.

  • KA126

    May 15, 2013

    @Gail and Kim,

    Thank you so much for the advice. I will definitely put it into practice in sha Allah. I will make sure not to concentrate on her antics and confront her in front of Habibi when she tries to manipulate. In sha Allah that will bring an end to it. My husband told her that he would ask her sister to move in with her. But if she can’t go there, she will have to go back to Ghana. Miraculously, I started getting sweet calls from her, lol…. I keep saying to myself “I see you honey”. My husband also said he will stop showing us affection in the presence of each other. I told him whatever…. The conspiracy to get rid of me started in Ghana, but tell her I’m not going anywhere.

  • Kim

    May 15, 2013

    @Gail,

    The thing is, M is a great cook. He used to have dinner on when I’d get home if he was home during the day. Of course all I can think about is that he cooked for HER last night (to be fair, SHE burns water) so he isn’t about to do the same here because…….? I don’t know.

    Now he’s off in the bedroom just laying down. Wanting to be alone, apparently. I’m happy to oblige, unlike someone else who shall not be mentioned…she’d be trippin’ like there’s no tomorrow….. but annoyed is an understatement. He can bop over there and have these marathon conversations, cooking nice little meals together, and other stuff I prefer not to think about, then drag his butt home and turn off and tune out. Yeah, right, I’m perfectly peachy with all that. NOT. But in the mood I’m in He’s better off there tongue

  • Gail

    May 15, 2013

    Kim,
    I hope things get better for u soon.I know it is really hard to work long shifts then come home and hubby not have a meal fixed.My hubby would burn water so I have been there and done that same like u in the past and it was tiring to say the least.

  • Gail

    May 15, 2013

    Sabrina,
    Yes the oldest sister normally comes up or the oldest brothers wife whichever is the oldest and in the home.Also u are correct she would have agreed to the marriage because it was beneficial to her needs.You will see in the future she will ask hubby to take her sons and she will expect her brother to give them jobs or help them get jobs in your country.All this is normal Paki behavior.
    Obviously it is to her benefit if your husband never has sons because her sons will receive more property since your husband doesn’t have a son.Strange concept I know but thats Paki peoples mentality.The girls go to their husbands homes after marry and most Pakis live joint family.Legally sons get more that daughters according to Paki law as far as I am aware.Boy if only u knew then what u know know right!!! LOL

  • Gail

    May 15, 2013

    KA126,
    Listen if u have gold or anything of value u don’t want stolen then u better get it to a bank lock box or purchase a safe otherwise don’t dry when something comes up missing.Don’t trust that she won’t steal it.My cowife took so much from me.before I knew her and hubby were practicing polygamy with me her sister was getting married and obviously cowife family is very poor so with them being poor cowife mentioned to me that gold is costly and her family don’t have money so I gave her my own marriage gold worth thousands of dollars as a gift.My husband and MIL tried to stop me but I asked hubby if he disapproved and he said no so then I went and gave her in her hand.I really loved that gold set and thought I was doing a Mitzva/good deed but when the truth came out and they had lied to me about being islamically divorced I was disgusted with anger at how he could have let me give away my marriage gold.It was a bast@rd thing for my husband to do he should have had her give me back but he never.He also never replaced my Gold and I hold a grudge in my heart against him for that thing.
    My point is be very careful not to let her or your husband take advantage of u.

  • Kim

    May 15, 2013

    So I just got home from another 10 hour shift, with 2 more plus a 4 hour Saturday and Sunday (Sunday is optional) and then another week’s stretch ahead next week. I’m exhausted. M was home by the time I got here, which is nice, but I’m cranky and tired and sore. I spent all day climbing ladders and throwing 50+ pound cartons around for almost half of my former salary and am in NO mood.

    So when he started complaining that he couldn’t find a phone charger and that my oldest son must be hoarding them, THEN asked for tea, I got rather b*tchy. He’s tying his fishing flies and I’m sitting here stewing and brewing and wishing he was still at N’s. Ok maybe not, but you know what I mean. I was hoping he’d offer to cook dinner tonight so I could relax this evening. Nope guess not. And I know why….because he had to cook dinner at N’s last night. Instead he said “you don’t have to make a curry, just whatever’s easy.” Yeah, because he made yakhni at N’s. And didn’t bring any home.

    Sabr, Sabr. SABR….*sigh*

  • Gail

    May 15, 2013

    KA126,
    OK Listen u always have a 50/50 chance of your cowife being good or bad.Now u know the truth that she has been acting nice only to get to USA and now that she is here she doesn’t have to pretend as much anymore.Everything is still fine don’t worry.All u need to do is keep your finances separate and have hubby support her on his own.
    KA126 u can’t make your husband see cowife for what she is anymore than u can make a blind man see understand?This is one thing I figured out the hard way so please do not waist any time or energy or your breath in screaming at him about her.Your husband will only think u r jealous and write off 99.9% of what u say.It really is like talking to a brick wall in my opinion.SOOO now that u know the real truth about her you will seriously need to only let hubby or u deal with the finances with cowife and not both of u.I would suggest you to let hubby do it and u keep your own money separate as that is the easy way but if u want to try to handle her yourself then thats ok to.Listen the way it works is very simple whichever one of u decides to deal her will need to make darn certain the other one never gives her money understand?Only one person is in charge to give her money and also put her on an allowance so she understands thats she has to make it last till u give again.This is the easy no tension way for u.Listen if she ask for more money never give it.She will be looking for a inch so she can squeeze a mile understand so I suggest u to not ever give her extra money in her hand other than her allowance.
    As far as the lies and manipulation this is also easy but seems really hard when your in the thick of it.You do not see cowife and what she is doing and all the lies she is telling you only see yourself and what u are doing.If she tells a lie u tell the truth.Will she dislike u for being truthful on her face Yeah of course but given time after she tries all her tricks and wits about her she will change or stay the same thing.Either way this is not your problem.You are only to be a light and set a good example and a rock.
    I went through this with my own cowife.My cowife was a class A liar and I am complete opposite and never lie.She tried the same crap lying to hubby on his face and hubby believed her over me why that is I don’t know and I don’t care because looking back I see it was a G.D thing.G.D was making showing my husband between the two of us.
    MY husband used to be a liar,cheater,steal u name it he did it but over the years with my convictions never to lie he changed.He changed so much that after only a few months he figured out that cowife had planned to destroy him by trying to force his hand to divorce me.
    KA126 never underestimate your own power.If u follow the laws that Allah/G.D has decreed and stand fast on them you will never come out a looser that much I can promise you.
    If she wants to leave let her if you are ok with that but do not financially support her in her decision and above all never ever let her tell a lie to you or your husband or anyone without you speaking up and telling the truth.
    Understand this if u suspect she is manipulating and cunning the same like my cowife was then be brave and put them together and tell her straight u don’t like manipulation and tell hubby right in front of her face that she told u straight she was moving out on her own.You never tried to get her to leave understand.A liar will always back down or change his words but a truth bearer words will always stay same.
    Also one more thing you need to be a little bit understanding for awhile and explain to her that there is no need to tell lies or play games.So many times in these low level countries they just really do not have good moral values and they play these games to get what they want.So try to understand this and explain this to her and let her know u are not against her but u will never accept any lies or games played with u.Everything takes time and now I can really say to you Dear KA126 Welcome to Polygamy!!!

  • Kim

    May 15, 2013

    Asalaam Aleikum Ka126,

    Oh dear….I was praying this would not be your reality sad I think your husband has been making an attempt to “save face”, and he knows darn well what his Ghana wife is up to. But after all the time and hassle and expense I’m sure it was to get her there to your home, he doesn’t want to admit that maybe it was a huge mistake to do so. Only Allah knows.

    I sure couldn’t do it…not in my own home. That territorial side of me is screaming at the very thought. If she was good, kind, honest, and wanting this to be a complete family unit as much as you and hubby, then it would be worth giving it our best combined effort. But not like this. Not with lies and manipulation and gameplaying. You’d think she’d want to blend as seamlessly as possible into the home and marriage, and embrace you for embracing her, and respect and love y’all’s husband. Ugh.

    That fake pregnancy thing sent alarm bells going off, because N did that in December. I can only pray that doesn’t happen again in our situation.

  • KA126

    May 15, 2013

    @Sarata

    My CoCo is from Ghana. She has been married to my husband for four years but for some reason, couldn’t get a Visa to get over here. Miraculously, after I married him, her Visa was approved in two days. Our living arrangement is a permanent one, at least that was what my husband thought. We thought that since her and I have been talking for so long that it would work. I offered this living arrangement because I believe it is best for the children to see their father everyday. Plus we are trying to live according to the Sunnah. My husband agrees. She is the only one that says she is fine with not seeing him all the time. However, it is different to speak, and be married to someone, long distance and to live with them every day. My husband thought that since she was poor and shy that it would be nice. After living together, I see her as a totally different person. I am starting to believe that she married my husband so someone would care for her and she could just lie around being lazy. Our family is made of workaholics, so I don’t know how that is going to fly.

    I spoke to my Habibi today about the situation. He perceived that I was being disrespectful to him by not telling him a lie and saying everything was Alhumdulillah. I told him that I have never lied to him and I wouldn’t start now. He needed to seriously think about the character of his wives. He can’t be this morally upstanding Man and have a dishonest wife. I have been traveling this week, he told me that she has been talking to him a lot while I’ve been gone. Explaining that she didn’t want to live in “MY” house that she wanted to live in one of “HIS” houses. He said he told her it wasn’t changing so deal with it or go back to Ghana, ALONE. So the attempted manipulating has continued. I told him that she will lie, cheat and steal to get rid of me even though I have been kind, loving and supportive of her from the beginning. I caught her going through my stuff when she thought no one was home. I told my husband that I would not stand for this fitnah and drama from her. He said he had some thinking to do.

  • Aishah 2013

    May 15, 2013

    Salaams all.all is same in world of Aishah.Jenny good luck with ivf.Fatima hi.KA126 if there is tension between you and Co and some gameplaying on her part I am sure he has some awareness of it.men seem to leave it to women first to do the smoothing over,before putting themselves in the middle..the man may want to blame it on women’s feelings and hormones…sure in initial stages of putting it all together it does LOL like everyman’sfantasy.look for your hub in a couple of weeks or months to say”I’m so exhausted..the running back and forth…(even a close distance)it seems to take a toll.their part of the test!lcould relate to your feelings Sarata..you think of the future and then how everything changed and nothing is a sure thing anymore.Maybe Gods lesson is that nothing in the future ever is a sure thing even tomorrow not guadranteed.well its one lesson there are many in this thing!!And by relate I mean yes I still feel that may sometimes..like when I look at kids pictures or think of when older ones(his) were young or when younger ones were adopted and born.Hmm then I gotta shake it and move forward.God knows why he put me here.

  • Sabrina

    May 15, 2013

    Salam @Jenny @Gail @Felicia

    The gun bit has been playing on my mind, when he was last in Pakistan I didn’t hear off him for abut 2 weeks, I thought he was just busy with cowife and kids. Then when I seen him he told me he had been in prison and paid to get out early. He then told me about the guns, he just said everyone has then ??? but then said he was illegal to have Russian guns and not US which don’t make sense to me a gun is a gun. He then said about showing me how to use one, no thank you. He wouldn’t tell me any more than that. I have heard about them putting seeds in the food to give u a bad stomach before, I work in Indian restaurants in UK as well and they have done that here. I only stated speaking to him properly yesterday I thought he was being quiet and he thought I was being moody.
    @ Jenny good luck with the IVF you must have a lot of energy to cope with the business and babies.
    @Gail after what cowife did, and all the planning with then all you handle it so well, don’t think I could cope with all that. With my husband its not is mother I will have to cope with but his eldest sister. His mother died 2001 his sister rules the roost. She was the one who gave her permission for us to marry, which I couldn’t understand at the time, now listening to your stories I think it was because she saw it as an opportunity to get to the west for her sons as well, and because my husband was supporting her as well and we both be earning meant more money being sent back home. She argued with him last time he was there over money and land, and she confessed to praying for him not to have sons. So I think they have not on speaking terms at the moment. I know last time he went back, he was told he must be a good business man to get me, so they give him more respect with business deals, a good business man what a way to think.

  • Sarata

    May 15, 2013

    @Ka126 re last post – I meant to say “maybe having a *lovely* cowife would have been a walk in the park” – not a Lowly one haha! (amazing how a typo can turn a normal sentence into something so different lol!)

  • Sarata

    May 15, 2013

    @Fatima – thanks.
    Yes In’shaa Allāh I hope it does pass soon.
    I foolishly thought I had my emotions under control – knowing in advance and being kind of part of the decision. I SO wasn’t ready for this.
    I was out of the country for over a month (supporting my mum as her hub passed away) That was quite draining obv and plus I’m continuously worried about her. So my reserves were at an all time low when I got back which doesn’t help I suppose.
    I’ve lost tonnes of weight an have spots all over my face like a teenager lol!
    Still waiting to hear when the wedding will be. Hubs may know but be reluctant to upset me as I’ve been a little unstable these past few day (understatement lol!)

    @KA126 (Sorry u prob already yard before but I’m not good at keeping track lol!) Is ur Co from another country? Was the plan that you all live together or is it meant to be temporary?
    Im here struggling with accepting who I would imagine the best possible cowife – I honestly don’t think I could handle one like yours! You must have amazing patience – I suppose we each have out own different tests. 
    Maybe a lowly cowife would have been a walk in the park for some of you stronger sisters – hence the nightmare Cowives? Only God knows I suppose!
    If it were me I would be having some serious discussions with hubs about her behaviour though. Or maybe a neutral person who ur hubs respects may be better to speak to him about it?

    @Jenny I’m keeping you in my prayers regarding your treatment. 
    I’ve just been reading back over some of your posts – and 
    @Gail’s too – Ana was right you are both really strong. Plus maybe your been in this P-game a while and built a think skin. Either way I will be happy if I even acquire half the strength you guys seem to have!

    I hope everyone’s ok and having a more emotionally stable week than me - Lol! big grin

  • ~Fatima~

    May 14, 2013

    Hello Everyone and Salams to all..
    Wow I am trying to catch up on here.. Had to back track a bit to see what was going on..
    @ Gail.. Hahahah you had me laughing about the toilet seat.. laughing Actually I have not replaced it yet.. its all bumpy in spots where the water had sat.. but I intend to replace it with one of those cushion toilet seats with fish on them as request from my two daughters… batting eyelashes batting eyelashes

    I have been sooooo busy lately.. My dear husband has opened yet another store and moi me will be working there and training new employees.. Its all good..
    I was scoping about the house to see what all sister in law might have Borrowed to take to India.. I found out she had asked to take the dvd player with her.. along with my exercise bike and my microwave which she loved.. but luckily she could not take these things with her.. hahah

    Household has been back to normal and I can walk around the house now as I please when the girls are gone and just me and hubby in the house,, we seem to have moments in the recliner and sometimes on the stairs.. lol .. but I wont go there.. dont tell anyone

    @ Ana.. how have you been Ana? how are things going along in your household these days?
    @ Sarata.. The depression mode will ease with time.. you will see.. so you hang in there… It will soon pass.. it always does..
    @ Leigh.. how are you and where are you?LOL Hope things are going ok with you..
    @ Hilly.. how are you sister? have the skype meetings decreased a bit? I hope you are feeling well these days.. Soon school will be out here.. The mornings now are more daylight when I walk with the girls to the bus since the time change ..so its not so dark..
    @ Jenny.. good luck to you again and hope all goes well on your side…
    Going to bed now.. a bit tired tonight.. (: l goodnightzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  • KA126

    May 14, 2013

    Assalaamu alaikum Sisters,

    Well as you know, my CoCo is here and is living with us. Two hours in, the drama started!!!! My husband has told both of us that he has no desire to have more than the 6 children we have now. Well, two hours from the time she stepped in the house she announced to him that she was preganant. For 12 hours afterwards, my husband went back and forth trying to figure out how to deal with the announcement. It was a terrible time. The next morning he calls a family meeting to discuss it and she replies with “I was just kidding, I just wanted to see how you would react.” HUH… WHAT… that’s not a joke… that’s a straight up lie.Then I took her to the Masjid and she lies to the sisters that her child wasn’t hers. Two days later, I asked her if she had any money and once she said no, I gave her $50. I told my husband that I gave it to her, but she asked him for more money. He asked her if she still had the money I gave her and she said no. WHAT!!!! Last night she informs me that she has asked my husband to get her another place to stay because she feels “out of place”. She says my husband asked her to give him time, I then offered to help finance it. Come to find out I was manipulated big time and my husband thinks I was trying to get rid of her. WHAT!!!! Throughout our whole marriage, we have had sad times, but we have never argued. After this last incident, boy did we argue.

    To sum it all up… she has turned out to be a liar and a manipulator. She has caused more fitnah in this family in five days thwn I could ever had imagined. I understand that when the co wife causes problems, we should practice patience. Even though I love my family and husband tremendously, I don’t think being around someone with such low morals is what I want in my life. What is also bothering me is that my husband (someone who’s high morals is what attracted me in the first time) is blind to her antics and is accepting the lies without addressing it. And to top it all off, I feel like I am the bad person. Should I leave or deal with a liar in my life?

  • Gail

    May 14, 2013

    How is everyone today! I had to take my MIL to the doctor today for an x-ray on her lower back.Her Health is failing her liver is whack.She lives in tension over my husbands exwife.She talks about getting revenge all the time.It is funny because she thinks that excowife and her family are totally 100% wrong and she did nothing.Honestly it blows my mind.I am astounded that she would believe like that and fail to see her own short comings shall we say.She says she served excowife 10 years and excowife family didn’t serve her daughter even 1 year.I try to explain to my husband that excowife and her family planned all this from day one to marry his sister with excowife brother to force hubby to divorce me.It is very simple and clear they told out of their own mouths to divorce me and they would take my hubby sister back and everything would be as before.MY husband refused so typical of cross cousin marriage his sister is facing divorce but for some reason my MIL can’t seem to get it through her head it was all a set up from day one and she fell into the scam to even marry her daughter there.What MIL thought is that excowife was fine and living secretly as my husbands wife(for some reason in my MIL brain she can’t see the wrong in it the lies)She acts like she did excowife a favor all these years and her family and to me that is just insane thinking.If I was my excowife I would have never allowed so long.The sad thing is she is getting back exactly what she did.Thanks G.D has blessed me with understanding in this matter.
    I think I need to ask her to put herself in excowife place.Would she sit 8 yrs and wait and wait on her husband while he is enjoying and making another life without her in another country.Knowing my mother inlaw the way I do she would scream like a dog and do the exact same thing excowife and her family are doing now.

  • Sarata

    May 14, 2013

    @J I’m feeling kinda calm at the moment. Or numb maybe.
    I know what you mean about the crying exhausting you. I really wanna be at that stage too – I’m clinging to the idea that it will get better, but imagining its gonna get worse first with the wedding etc.
    I too have let myself and my studies slip. If all this helps bring me closer to Allah then Alhamdulillah.
    As soon as I’m over this depressed & pathetic stage I have plenty of things to do. If I can get over it (feels kinda impossible right now) I feel so weak & rubbish.
    Please keep me in your Duas. I need all the help I can get right now In’shaa Allāh x

  • Jenny

    May 14, 2013

    @ Felicia,

    What is wrong with your husband contributing to your rainy day fund too? Is that really a burden you should handle all by yourself? Isn’t he supposed to support you? It really isn’t your problem if he can’t afford it. Tell him to get another job. He wants the joy of having multiple women, then he should have the joy of having multiple jobs to support them. happy

    The people in Pakistan are locusts. I’m sure they would boil my husband in his own mustard to totally suck him dry if they could get me out of the picture. I had the same fears. My husband needed me for the first business he started. I had money, my own business. He needed a brain to run the business. While I may be a charitable person by nature, my mother did not raise a fool. At the time he was still married to his cousin. I had fears of not only he losing his money, but me mine. Of course, I heard the words how that would never happen. Sorry, I am a lawyer, I’ve seen what happened to trusting women.

    While I loved him, I didn’t like what I was marrying into. That was when I put all these demands on him. The main one being I own everything in my name alone. Wills can be challenged, screw that. Hubby must have had amazing faith in me that I would not burn him. Without a seconds thought, he agreed.

    So yes, if he ever leaves, he’ll be leaving with only his freedom. laughing. I get peace of mind I’m not supporting a wife. Sorry, won’t do that. If the people in Pakistan start demanding things, he can honestly say he has no money, to ask me. Of course, they won’t ask me for anything, but I am very generous to his other children. I really feel sorry for them and don’t know the right thing to do with them. We do get along, after many tense years. Hubby wanted to bring them here and they wanted to come too. For some reason, I think it was very cruel to take them away from their mother. If my husband tried to do that to me, he would be roommates with Jimmy Hoffa! But Pakistani men think nothing of ripping the children away from their mothers.

    Even if we got past that issue, our home is not like Pakistan and nor will I let it become like it. His kids grew up in a strict Muslim house. My home is a strict Jewish one. We live in an Orthodox Jewish neighborhood and my husband blends in very well. The only Muslim in our neighborhood is our neighbor, his best friend.

    I will not have my children getting confused. My boys wear tzitzits and have the side curls. Shabbat rules are enforced in our home, separate plates, whole nine yards. We have a formal Shabbat dinner every week, with much company. If they come. They have to blend into the life I have here. I live in New York City, not Pakistan. My husband and I curl up on the couch with our kids. My neighbors see us hold hands and we kiss all the time in the office and at home, which I know is frowned upon in Islam. While my husband says these things will not change, I know they will. I could see his oldest son’s reaction when hubby gives me a swat in the hiney! This is behavior they never saw with their mother. My husband never lived with her. Only three visits to Pakistan in 17 years. I’m sure there will be a lot of resentment. Hubby hasn’t mentioned their coming in a while now. I just go along with the flow when he mentions them coming. While he starts all gun ho, it never happens.

    The way he is with our family is a total night and day. Hubby gives just as many baths and diaper changes as I do. He reads them stories at bedtime, which is mainly made up because his reading is less to be desired. Our daughter, Hadassah, has him wrapped around her finger. She is the boss. He loves all of our children, but he connects in a special way with Hadassah. This is the man that didn’t want daughters. happy It’s funny, Hadassah will say, “Daddy, no!” And that is it. laughing Game over for him. His daughter in Pakistan barely says a word and has no relationship like that. I no longer try to understand it.

    Thank you everyone for your well wishes. The procedure is in the afternoon tomorrow. Had my doctor’s appointment and blood work today. I had all my days confused. I don’t even know what day it is. All I know is we stepped on a plane Saturday afternoon.

    This morning I woke up with a sore throat. It feels better now, but I can’t stop blowing my nose. I had a sinus infection the week before we left. I really hope it is allergies and not a cold. I feel tired, but I haven’t really slept much. Yesterday we were running around Vienna. Friday and Saturday we will be back in Vienna. One evening we are going on a cruise on the Danube for a few hours. The other night we are going to the orchestra. Tonight we are going for an incredible steak dinner at my favorite restaurant outside of Prague. Then I will go to bed.

    Thursday I will be relaxing getting a perfume and head massage for almost three hours. Can’t wait for that. The clinic I go to is incredible. It is four stories and they have a spa and five star hotel in the building. I also get a Dead Sea wrap and facial, which are amazing and leaves the body tingling.

    This time I wasn’t in a rush to fly back. I doubt that had anything to do with my having an etopic, but you never know. I was relaxing. Not staying in bed the whole time, but doing relaxing things. Before my spa treatment we are going to the zoo and see one of the castles again.

    We have crammed things into every second of this vacation. I pray this works again and not etopic again. It was so hard on me. I still feel such crippling sadness. It was twins. Not that losing one wouldn’t be bad… I think in some ways it was harder on my husband. He was with me when I started bleeding out, while getting an ultrasound. We just heard the babies heart beats. He was in shock for a few weeks and I doubt he yet understands what happened. Bless his heart, he doesn’t even understand the menstrual cycle! laughing. I’ll keep everyone posted.

    Well I have to run for now!

  • J

    May 14, 2013

    Sarata

    Asalamu Alaykum

    how are you feeling? I know what you mean, but either way you would have fallen in love and gotten emtionaly attached to hubby. It’s a blessing from Allah to love our husbands and take care of them. We are the glue that hold the family together mashaAllah. I know what your saying about the future, its hard to imagine because now all the plans have to made around her too, thats what am struggling with its like ive been there from day one. But we plan and Allah is the best of planners, and our futures are not promised because our death is already written for us. MashaAllah. I just try to think, I have to focus on me and on my kids, my good deeds, and planning for my hereafter. Now am in the stage of focusing even more on Allah, on my self, and making my self feel beautiful everyday it does wonders for the soul because stressing and crying wears you out, planting with the kids, and I started back up my Islamic Studies that ive gotten lazy on. I might even start a part time job, who knows.

  • J

    May 14, 2013

    Jenny

    Wow thats amazing, I dont know how you have two sets of twins and stay sane lol. My kids are a year apart and they tire me out. But I do want to have more, maybe after I dropped some extra pounds ill get on it happy wow I have a friend who recently had an etopic pregnancy too she was delaying going to the doc and it almost ruptured. How did IVF go? Lots of good wishes towards your way.

    and OMG LOL taliban informed of a jewish woman coming. Am still laughing about it

  • Felicia

    May 14, 2013

    @Gail,
    Just thought I would share friend’s my story as we sometimes discuss living arrangements.
    She has been trying to be a parent to them but they are 6,4 and 2 years, the baby is 7 months. now that the eldest is at school she can help with homework, actually she prefers to teach the Islamic stuff. The 4 year old starts kindergarten this month and she is hoping to break some barriers with her soon. One step at a time.
    I would need nerves of steel it I have to live with a Co like you and her. My hats off to both of you!!!!!
    I luv they way you said your husband is popular now that he is in USA.
    My Co’s family actually postponed a wedding so that hubby could attend as he is one of the few living in a foreign country. Remarkable the status you get but the responsibilities/torture follows shortly thereafter.
    It is most emotionally draining starting to plan life separate from my husband. Everything I did/dreamt was for us.The same with finances, I’ll would buy something and take his taste into consideration. Now with my own business I think as soon as I sell a house I need to put aside for a rainy day, my rainy day. It’s a weird mixed up thought and action. It is a lonely place to be. I will be using it for myself and child. He isn’t part of the equation. I’m like previously when I saved for a rainy day it was he knew how much I put aside and rainy day meant when we retire or one of us dies. Now it plain old me!! . The change painful and to top it I have to ensure Paki family can’t lay their hands on it.
    @Kim congrats on losing the weight and reaching out to N another time , keep going.

    @ Jenny, all the best with the IVF.

    @Bobti enjoy your time with the extended family. Hubby will be proud of you for getting along so well with his family.

    @Sabrina not one but two Russian guns???? did he give any explanation?

    @ all you lovely ladies that I haven’t mentioned – have a wonderful day.

    Don’t know if you ladies watch Bollywood movies -I watched Khuda ke liye (available with English sub-titles) shocking but explains clearly what Gail and Jenny are trying to explain to us.
    Just yesterday I watched a discussion on the changing of divorce laws in India. The discussion raised issues related to women owning property and inheriting property. I think women in both Pakistan and India, and probably countries like Kashmir and Bangladesh, experience oppression when it comes to owning property in their names. sad

    @Fatima where are you? have you managed to replace the wooden toilet seat??

  • Jenny

    May 14, 2013

    @ Gail and Sabrina,

    It is very hard to get an accurate birthday as back in the days when children were born, they were born at home and birth records were what the parents said they were. Giving birth in a hospital is a relatively new thing, same with birth certificates.

    My husband flat out explained that to me before we got married. When his mom shipped him off to jolly old England when he was a kid, he had to be age 13. His birth certificate and hubby’s legal birthday on all government documents is Feburary 1, 19XX. His birthday he believes from his mother is December 12, three years earlier. We celebrate the December birthdays.

    I had the honor of getting hubby his first birthday cake and birthday present the first of his birthdays after we married. He cried. Never had that before. Now you start to see birthdays being celebrated. Ask my neighbor who has nine kids. Aunt Jenny and Uncle I but the pizzas and ice cream cakes. happy

    Sabrina, Gail is absolutely correct about being poisoned! My husband admitted to me that it happens there. They think its funny. Usually they slip you a Mickey that will keep you on the toilet, which 9 times out of 10, the hole in the floor. Ewwww….. Thanks to Gail, I have two Life Straws. I may look like a total fool drinking from that, but my husband’s cousin will not be proisoning moi! It’s bad enough that probably alerted all the Taliban in Pakistan that an American Jew will be coming soon!

    Speak of hole in the floor toilets, it sounds like your husband is of the age of my hubby. Next time he goes to the doctor, ask him to have a hepatitis test. Most Pakistani’s are either positive or turn up positive, but exposed and recovered. Two reasons: the toilet issues and back in the days, when they gave children immunization a, they did not use clean needles. My husband is currently under interferon treatment for hepatitis.

    Your husband is probably telling you the truth about the age. That he may not know, and Pakistani women are less to be desired. You never know his mother’s motivations. Now what does scare me about your situation is the guns??? We’re they for personal safety? I mean we own a few rifles because hubby and I go hunting sometimes. Usually once a year is all we have time for, but we got our rifles and buckshot. He likes to shoot game, but I like deer and wild turkey (very hard to get too I add). When I want to sharpen my skills I’ll hunt wild turkey’s with a bow and arrow, which I learned from my grandfather.

    If his arrest happened in the US, his shot of immigrating would be nil. Does it work the same way in your country? Please keep your eyes wide open!

  • Kim

    May 13, 2013

    Gail,

    Nope, M is Sunni. Ni is Shia and is the one who insisted back during their secretive days to do Mut’ah. M honestly had no friggen clue what it even was but was like er…ok??? she explained it and he’s all, oh ok. Because religiously he ain’t the brightest bulb, he had no clue what Sunni teaching is on it, it’s never come up in his life.

    Again, dude isn’t very religious. “Adultery”, or “Zina” if you will, is nothing new to him. I could put both feet in his arse and it wouldn’t do any good. Again, this is on him, on her. I’ve talked myself to death on it and have zero energy – none – nada – to go through that again.

    Now, as to your Kashmir question. Remember that Kashmir is divided by 3 countries – Pakistan, India and China. If someone is in “Azad Kashmir” then they’re on the Pak side and would have Pak citizenship and subsequently a Pak passport. On .the Indian side, Indian citizenship and Indian passport. There may be dual citizenship between the US and Pakistan, but there is no recognition of dual citizenship between India and the US. The best he could hope for is PIO (Person of Indian Origin) status which would enable him to work, do business, and buy property – in ANY part of India EXCEPT in Jammu & Kashmir. Why? Article 370, which was part of the accession agreement with India. Under Article 370, only a “State Subject” of Jammu & Kashmir may buy and own property in the state. A State Subject means one who was born in Kashmir, of parents who are Kashmiri, and and 2. Be an Indian Citizen throughout the time of ownership of said property.

    So you see the issue? If he gives up Indian CItizenship, there goes along with it, his Kashmiri State Subject status, and along with it, every asset he has.

  • Gail

    May 13, 2013

    Jenny,
    I hope u have success with your trying to get pregnant this go around.Did u have a nice Mothers Day? My husband totally forgot it but thats nothing new I can’t remember a single time he has ever remembered it to be honest he says he is sorry but it is just words as usual.Feeling kinda down and out these days to be honest.I am in hopes to purchase a van in the next 24 hours so wish me luck so I can start working again and stashing extra money in the bank in my own name.I know I am walking on the right track now but I don’t know I just feel so alone.I just sincerely hope u gave me good advice to not have walked with my exlove.I can’t really put my finger on anything particular but I feel like my life is not my own.Sometimes I just want to sit in the corner and do nothing but cry.I seriously don’t have any idea how I got in this situation.It saddens me very much for my husband to treat me so nonchalantly.On the positive side I am in hopes by fall I am sitting on the start of my own nice little nest egg.
    Gosh it is so weird I have money thousands and thousands of dollars seriously on me every single day but I feel broke.I feel terrified when I think of the future and not having my own nest egg separate than hubby.The only logical thing I have come up with is that he may divorce me in the future and I will be very stuck if my children have not graduated from University.The other strange thing is that he claims he will never divorce me but I don’t trust him so his words are really meaningless to me as far as financial security goes.I sometimes wonder if I will ever find the peace I so much long for.

    Kim,
    Your husband must be Shia I believe.My husband is Also Shia but I don’t think he believes in Mutah marriage.He may though I will have to ask him.I will be honest it sounds very strange to me and like legal prostitution if u ask me.I have heard stories about Shia men doing Mutah on prostitutes for an hour.How strange is that?I guess Mutah marriage is convenient for men who want to get their rocks off.I know I personally would never agree to a Mutah marriage as I don’t see the respect given to woman in a Mutah marriage but thats just me.I hope I don’t offend u or anyone else by writing about Mutah marriages it’s not my intention.My own husband is Shia and I find Mutah marriage very strange.

  • Gail

    May 13, 2013

    Arica,
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! I just got of my menses yesterday!!! You are to funny!!!

  • Gail

    May 13, 2013

    Sabrina,
    Now u r thinking more correctly.Listen Pakistan people lie all the time and age is one thing they lie about very easy.They don’t celebrate birthdays and he may not even really know his real birthdate that is how strange it is.If u think he older then chances are he is.
    Sabrina my husband told me so many lies over the years u would gasp.One lie he told me right after we married was that he was adopted and up until he told me the truth about keeping cowife on the side as a wife in Pakistan well my entire marriage he let me believe he was adopted.I being from USA was not totally taken back by it but it created a huge problem for us because his son from his first marriage has a colon issue and every single damn time I wrote out his family history I put he was adopted.When the truth came out I was furious beyond words.One thing to betray me but your own child still I don’t know how he could have done it.All I can say he is a master manipulator and a liar of great proportions indeed.It is sad because it was in my head that his parents were not my sons biological grandparents.His lies affected me very hard.
    Sabrina above all I believe this moral for myself and I will share it with u because it may somehow help u.
    To tell the TRUTH is a very hard thing and to LIE is a very easy thing to cover yourself but as time goes on and you continue to tell lie over lie over lie then one day you wake up and realize you don’t even know who u are.If we are truly spiritual beings then it stands to reason a person should close his or her eyes and think who he or she is and what they stand for.Years ago I use to lie it didn’t bother me one bit to tell a lie when I was a teenager and young adult to save my skin but one day I woke up and a light went off and I realized this truth .I must be truthful in everything because the truth really is all there is.I don’t want to stand before G.D on judgment day and have no idea who I even am because I have lied so much that I don’t even know what I stand for.This is called being a rock.I consider myself a rock.Am I perfect no but in all honesty if I had to rate myself on not lying I would say I am in all seriousness 99.9999% truthful.the .ooo1% is not because I lie but because I let myself think something that is in a gray area like Do I have proof my excowife poisoned me.No I don’t so technically I should not accuse because I have the lack of proof even though I am certain she did something. but it really doesn’t matter because I forgive her even if she did that so what is use to cry over damage already done.However I want to get the information out there becareful and don’t be silly and let your cowife serve you if u are in a foreign country is my sincere advice for your own safety esp esp… drinking eating u can get by with if everyone is eating out of same dishes then u are fine but never let her single u out and hand u a plate of food or a drink.It’s to risky if u ask me.Also always always carry a container with a lid on it and keep it with u at all times is my very best advise when u are traveling overseas.Keep in mind it may not be just cowife that wants u gone but could also be your dear sweet inlaws.It is very well known in the villages of Pakistan that people sneak into the kitchen and turn off the pilot lights and leave the home except for the daughter inlaw and when the daughter inlaw goes to the kitchen and lights the stove BOOOMMMMM!! End of story and hubby gets new wife new life or they throw acid on their wives faces so many terrible things happen in Pakistan.I am not telling u all this to scare u but rather to inform u of the culture incase u are not aware.You can google any of this I have said on the internet and find out all about it.It is very common everything I have stated.

  • Gail

    May 13, 2013

    Kim,
    Listen I don’t know about Kashmir but I thought my husband told me that they have Pakistani passports.I know Kashmir is very strange as Pakistani and India are all the time fighting over it but I know my husband has duel citizenship Pakistani and American and he was able to obtain American citizenship after 3 years of being married to me.Again I don’t know about Kashmir but all my children and hubby have duel citizenship.Might be something to look more into since this is an issue and make certain u have the correct information.I have no idea about India laws regarding citizenship.I do however know that my exsister inlaw now lives in Kashmir and I have bee to Kashmir on the Pakistan side and never had any problems.Some of my husbands family live in Kashmir.
    My husband also has business and shops and rental homes galore but it has never been a problem for us.You do have me curious about Kashmir now and if they have different laws.

  • Gail

    May 13, 2013

    Kim,
    You have me also dying to know what happen but u share it in your own time.As far as hubby is concerned I don’t know why he is staying the night unless N and him are thinking they are married and resuming their marital relations.If thats not the case u might want to put a foot in his arse on that one because now it just sounds like plain old fashion adultery is going on.
    Whatever it is that is troubling u I hope u find closure regarding your issue.
    I am curious do u know if M and M consider themselves still married at this point since they have done the do? Call me crazy but I am very big on not committing Adultery.I know everyone might find that strange coming from my mouth but it was one conditions if hubby was to get back together with cowife he would have to legally remarry her in Pakistan.He didn’t so that was that.

  • Sabrina

    May 13, 2013

    @ all thanks for the advice, I think if we stay together I’m going to have to do what Jenny and Gail advises and take control especially with the finances. He sent me a message saying everything is ok but he is still a bit cool. I’m so glad I could read your stories and get more of an understanding of the culture and the way they think. Everything in UK is in my name, and I had a civil and religious ceremony in Kuwait. He also registered the marriage in Pakistan, but there is no way I want to go there and mentally I can only cope with polygamy with the distance, couldn’t cope with us in the same house. He has already told the his 3 girls they got another mama, and they wanted to see me on Skype so he took them to the city (he comes from the tribal area) but I was at work so missed them. The other thing I think he is lying about his is age he says he is 36 when I met him just turned 37 but he looks much older, he looks older than me there is 9 yrs difference. He also had to pay to get himself out of prison in February for having 2 Russian guns that’s been making me think what I have I been getting myself into. Why he would keep them in the house. Now I’m actually writing all this down thinking what am I doing, but as you have said they are smooth talkers and come across so sweet. Have start thinking everything as a business deal and not love.

  • Bobti

    May 13, 2013

    Salaam alykom to all

    @Jenny – my husband is not from Pakistan and both the wives are from the same country and background….I have done both civil and criminal work, now mostly civil work…I work for a semi-government body who give free legal services to ‘poor’ people, so I deal with volumes of work which take a lot of energy from me…me too Jenny, I am straight, honest – cant stand lies and bulls*&t…I still struggle to keep this behaviour in line with the religion…

    @Kim – you are right … the “laws” is mostly muslim behaviour put to paper as both wives are reverts…its was just easy reference to some behaviour and some extra rules which we thought should apply …and it is called “laws” only cause my husband is calling it like thank to give him power… loool

    @Ana – most of the horror movie with regards to abuse(physically/mental/emotional/verbal) has gone as the new ‘laws’ looool forbid that…

    we had ‘mothersday’ yesterday in our country and the other wife sent me the most beautiful roses delivered to my house on Saturday!…the card had no name in it – it was like a valentine’s card….very secretive, however I knew it was from her….which she acknowledged when I thanked her yesterday….WHY THE SECRECY!!!….I just can’t live with the secrets….why would someone – a woman- send another woman flowers with no name????

    I invited the other wife for coffee and we picked up again…I don’t know for how long it will last as it never lasts long….I have to learn not to tell her everything and not let her come to close to my space…

    I am going insha allah on holiday to my husband’s country in 3 weeks (with him! for the 2nd time)…I carried the costs in case some1 thinks I am spoilt by him…something to look forward as his extended family and me are getting on very well…

    take care all of you here of the blog…Salaam

  • Sarata

    May 13, 2013

    @J I love that Hadith too. I’ve always liked to think of me & my hubs like Mohammed saw & Khadijah ( a sheikh on Huda TV today even quoted that Hadith today)
    We have been through a lot and I sacrificed so much for him – before him
    I swore I’d never give any man the power to make me feel worthless again – but hub proved himself and I put my trust and started to build a future – I never ever thought he’d do anything (halal or not) that would risk hurting me.
    I can’t see my future I guess because the one I was dreaming about no longer exists (me him
    & our kids) It’s never gonna be just me & him against the world any more.

    I wish I’d become Muslim before I met him – married a man I’d not had the chance to get this emotionally attached to. I couldn’t ever imagine having to look for a hub the Islamic way – but there is so much wisdom in it.
    As soon as we put our whole heart into another human being rather than Allah swt – we gonna come crashing down with a bump. Won’t make that mistake again In’shaa Allāh.

  • Kim

    May 13, 2013

    @ Jenny,

    Yes, hence the “Mut’ah” again. I know that’s hugely controversial and sectarian, and I’m staying out of that one entirely; it’s on her to deal with along with him. I could argue til doomsday, but in the how many centuries it’s been an issue between sects in Islam it’s never been resolved; doubtful anything I say will do any good. If they’re ok with Mut’ah marriage then so be it. It’s on them to answer for it.

    Huge prayers for a successful knocking up!!! happy

  • Kim

    May 13, 2013

    Well, I agree….umpteen billion times bitten umpteen billion times twice shy. I’m maintaining my friendly attitude without pushing a thing, really. However her responses are, they’re hers. I’m doing ME and what I feel is the best under the circumstances.

    Cold silence took me out of the fitnah ring before, I know, but it also cut me totally off from half of M’s life, and another fitnah came as a result of that. And he had to seriously compartmentalize which was extremely tough for him to do. It’s not really in his nature. N and I being on friendly speaking terms without pushing anything, without her complaining about being #2 and never having wanted it, or getting play by plays of their doing the do is fine. As long as M isn’t the focus of our talking with each other, we’re good.

    IF that line should be crossed again, I know who will cross it and what the outcome will be…it will be on N and not mine. I won’t get wound up in the drama and she knows it damn well.

  • Arica

    May 13, 2013

    Asalam Alaykim,

    I just gotta say I knew that women who lived together eventually started having there menses together, I didn;t know it could happen on a blog!! LOL….what is with all you ladies PMSing together!! LOL!!!

  • Jenny

    May 13, 2013

    Hello J,

    Actually, I have two sets of twins. I was pregnant with a third set, but in January, we found that they were etopic, hence doing it again. We love our BIG family and my husband is definitely a hands on daddy, in the trenches doing diaper patrol. Extremely uncommon for a Pakistani man. I’ll never forget the first time I was pregnant. My husband informed me that Pakistani men don’t change diapers. I told him welcome to America! The land of gender equality! Good thing he’s American, right? laughing

    We have so much fun with our munchkins! He is an awesome daddy. Totally different than with his other kids. No hands on. Just a phone call.

    @ Kim,

    Question: Shouldn’t he be married again before the overnight visits start???

  • J

    May 13, 2013

    Sabrina

    All the ladies here have awesome advice, The only thing I can say is be careful what your next steps are, and communication is key, especially if you want to have a baby. I hope you stay here, and talk on here because it will help you cope and deal with everything. Plus all the ladies here have great advice on being married to Paki’s. And it seems like you support yourself financial, so I would suggest your protect all your assets just in case.

  • J

    May 13, 2013

    Sarata

    Asalamu Alaykum `Girl I feel you, even trying to focus on all the positive aspects it hurts and makes you feel all ungrateful and empty. alhamdulillah your husband seems like a good man and seems to care about your feelings. You are definitely strong I cant even imagen being in the same place with co and my husband it hurts to much right now. But inshaAllah with time it must get better I hope. I think for me and you it will matter a lot on how our husbands deal with the situations ahead cuz mine doesnt even wanna be friends anymore and inshaAllah everything will fall into place for us. Like Allah says in Surah Baqarah “Surely with every difficulty their is relief, surely with every difficulty their is relief”

    How come you feel unsure about your future now? I feel the same way sometimes, even though my husband assured me that he would not let anything come between us, or ruin the love we have. Which is hard to comprehend I mean HELLO your with another woman. BUT you try to be positive and accept the Sunnah. Ive been thinking a lot recently about the love that the Prophet pbuh had for Khadijah I believe in that love, It eases my heart, even after her death he spoke so much good of her, to the point were Aisha was super jealous of her and she was dead, and said something like Why do you talk about that old woman all the time when Allah gave you something better?, and the Prophet pbuh got very upset and said something like Allah has not given me a better wife than Khadijah, for she supported me when no one else did and bore me children. Sorry everyone if this isnt word by word just writing from memory. But I like this hadeeth a lot. Makes me wish I was like Khadijah to my husband. lol.

    Anyways Alhamdulillah

    KIM

    Am so happy you lost weight!! keep going your smokinnnnnnn. I was on my period and was not excerising and had two slices of pizza ugh felt like crap after. But now am back and worked off that pizza lol. Kim stay away from N. Shes just gonna feed on your niceness and find other ways to sneak in. She may want to be friends but It seems like she cant really change herself, I just think unless she fully accepts this is what Allah has in pan for her and accept it as part of the deen, she will always try to jump on any train that she thinks will mess up your relationship with M. I dont want to be all negative and stuff, but I just dont want you to be falling in the same fitnah over again.

    Jenny

    I hope your IVF goes well and you are knocked up. I think you mentioned you have twins right? So its possible you can have another set? I love the idea of twins on my husband side he has twins his cousins a boy and girl.

  • Jenny

    May 13, 2013

    @ Gail,

    My goodness, how do you handle all the drama? Waiting for our driver to come. Going to Prague. Having IVF tomorrow, so hopefully, I will be well knocked up. happy

    Spent the day wandering around Vienna. Literally stopped so many times at the outdoor cafes (they are everywhere) to have Viennese coffee. I will be uploading a lot of pictures to Ana and when she comes back, I’m sure she will post some as she usually does. This is such an amazing place and we’ll be back here Friday. Sunday we are off to Switzerland before coming home.

    Sabrina, you must have your own money. When my husband And i married, I put so many demands on him, the demands were crazy to me! But he accepted them. The big one was everything we own is in my name alone. Now, years later, I think my husband was very smart because keeping everything in my name has saved him a lot of grief. First, it has made me extremely loyal to hubby; and second, everyone in Pakistan knows not to ask hubby for anything. Hubby tells them they have to ask me, and that is majorly embarrassing to them. winking Nipped that problem right in the a$$.

    I am so thankful he had his children and his relationship with the cousin was over before we met. Honestly, if I had to live through that, in all honesty, I can say only one of us would have lived through it. I could have never handled it. That I know for sure.

    Sabrina, I hope you stay on here with us. Between me and Gail, we want to make sure you have guidance in dealing with the crazy family situation.

    Gail likes to jump in and deal with them. I’m of the other opinion. I don’t deal with them at all. I do have a very strong relationship with his kids (who are all teenagers), but as far as the rest of the family, won’t handle the drama. Once in awhile, the drama lands on my doorstep, once or twice a year. They learned a good lesson that hubby puts me before anyone and I am the one he seeks advice. Once his family told him his mother died. They came clean about what they did when they found out hubby wasn’t running back to them.

    He talks to the kids every day. His mother, when she is up, maybe every few days. He really has no ties there other than being a telephone dad. Hubby is Muslim, but even his best friend teases him about being Jewish. laughing

    Sabrina, I won’t lie to you, you really have one hell of a very tough road to hoe. You must be a stronger woman than I. I am one tough chick, but my husband and children are my Achilles heel.

    As far as not hearing for your husband, I wouldn’t worry because it is a combination of reasons right now. The main reason is probably no power in which he can email you. Hubby tells me power is only on for about two hours a day. Second, he probably don’t know what to say to you and is trying to think what sweet things he can say to you to calm down. Beware, you are better off eating a cup of sugar instead!

    @ Kim,

    It is nice you are extending the hand of friendship to N, but I have to ask, why??? Obviously, she has a mental condition and had you looking for the pot with the rabbit in it when you got home. Do you really think she will change? You can paint over the spots, but the leopard will always have them.

    Why is it important to your husband that you two be friends? If my husband suggested that with his cousin, he would have spent the next hundred years getting my foot out of his a$$. laughing. You know she doesn’t accept the situation and it will come to a head sooner rather than later.

  • Kim

    May 13, 2013

    @ Gail,

    Well if there’s one thing I’ve learned being at 411, it’s that if ever M and I do divorce, and as much as I am drawn to South Asia, I’ll never marry a Pakistani dude :/ WAY too much trouble for me to contend with. Alhamdulillah M’s family is nothing like this. There’s greed, sure, but it’s of a different kind, not this crazy scheming and stabbing. There’s an issue between 2 of the brothers which fundamentally is due to a “woman fight” (between 2 wives of these 2 brothers), and another fight with one of the 2 brothers’ wives and her daughter in law, my nephew’s wife, then ANOTHER crisis with 3 of the brothers in my family there, and M has found himself in it and YES it’s about money/property, and YES others have been pulled into the fray, but it isn’t anything on the level you’ve described with your in-laws. I consider us very fortunate.

    As for us and Kashmir. Oh boy loaded question. M insists that N won’t go because she has her kids and other family here. As per usual, when he and N weren’t speaking he was Kashmir gung-ho. Now that she’s back into the picture he’s waffling about saying it’s not time, but he’ll go for a month this fall as he promised he would and honestly really needs to, to make sure his shop’s inventory is taken care of, the sale of the house is done, etc.

    I am probably cutting my own throat here but Allahu Alim….IF N and I can maintain the type of relationship we’re TRYING to have right now, and if it deepens into a genuine friendship/sisterhood (i.e. there’s no anxiety attacks when he’s on his time with her, she doesn’t flip out, and I genuinely REALLY grow to view her as vital in my life and not trying to steal my place and THAT will take time and effort), then if she wants to come, Alhamdulillah. Regardless, I made him swear the other day, taking the most solemn vow, that his intentions are still he and I and Kashmir are still the goal. He absolutely swore they are.

    There are some issues he has to contend with involving immigration and his green card. He does not want to lose his green card because of his kids here in the US, his grandson, etc. He also knows what hardship it can be leaving and coming back all the time, and with the greencard he cannot stay out of the US very long. If he could obtain US Citizenship that would alleviate the problem, of course. HOWEVER….he would have to give up Indian citizenship, and thereby any rights to ownership of land/home/business. He’d lose everything there. And that’s out of the question. So he’s truly stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    Sure his kids could travel to Kashmir to visit, they’re independent adults, but they’re not rich, and it costs money. Our absence from Kashmir, and mishandling of his business by his nephew has resulted in a financial hit and a half. Hence he’s selling the house, paying off the brother, and starting over…not only with a new home but a new business as well.

    So, I don’t know is the most honest answer I can give. I want to be there next year, I promised I’d be there next year. Only Allah knows if that promise will be kept.

    M stayed at N’s last night, and I wasn’t happy. I had asked him and he’d agreed, as did she, that if there are to be overnights, at least give me a decent amount of a heads-up. The heads-up I got came at midnight last night. I wasn’t happy….but there’s something else about it. I had something HUGE happen yesterday evening while he was gone and really really needed him here. In a way I’m grateful he wasn’t home because the HUGE thing involves something I’ve never told him about in all our years together, and I suspect his reaction would have been pretty intense and since it’s deeply personal, I wanted/needed to process it myself and with my kids as it involved them as well. Still, I was upset he waited til midnight to let me know he wasn’t coming home. Not cool. At. All. I understand sh*t happens, time got away, whatever, so it’s ok, but still…we had a damn agreement. Looks like we need to revisit some of the boundaries I THOUGHT were mutually agreed upon.

    I did end up telling him on the phone when he called at midnight (I was on the phone and called him back after I was done). Told him something huge had happened, but it could wait til morning when he gets here. He insisted on knowing then and there, so I told him. He took it calmly enough, but I have no idea how things will go when he gets here (supposed to be here around 10). Insha Allah he’ll be ok.

    I’d tell you all what it’s about but it’s deeply personal, very few know about this, and I’m in a tailspin…insha Allah I’ll talk about it later, after M and I have had a chance to talk.

  • Gail

    May 13, 2013

    Kim,
    I am very proud of u for doing the right thing.I am also very proud of N for receiving your food graciously.It is very hard to fight your emotions and do the right thing.I wish I had you for a cowife!
    Hubby told me last night that excowife sister called his brother screaming at him over the phone saying all kinds of nasty things.I told hubby do not bother in the future to tell me things about cowife because he refuses to fix the problem.I notice it makes him feel very good to have her and her family swooning over him.I personally don’t have anything against excowife other than she tried to poison me and I will not again eat or drink anything she cooks and keep only beverages in closed containers when I am around her or her family but yeah other than that she really doesn’t bother me as strange as it may sound.
    It is so strange because I am the one person that could actually help her but because of her greediness and her desire to see me divorced she refuses to ask for my help.As it is seems she will be screaming till the cows come home because my sister inlaw has decided to divorce cowife brother.The saga continues.
    Kim u never did tell me if u and M are going back to Kashmire and if so will M also be going?

  • Gail

    May 13, 2013

    Sabrina,
    I read your post and am truly sorry for your situation.I know exactly how u feel as I have already walked a very long way down this same road u are now on my friend.
    Sabrina you have two choices now that u have found yourself in this situation.You must either decide to accept or divorce there really isn’t much of a third option for you my dear.If you do accept to stay with your Pakistani husband I think u should become very familiar with his culture as it is must for your survival in the marriage.
    I am pretty certain u have noticed by now Pakistani men are smooth talkers thats how they trap the unsuspecting woman from the west sorry to say.For some strange reason Pakistani people think that that Europe(UK &USA) is nothing but money and fun in the sun and free citizenship.
    Kuwait is financially a great place as far as currency is concerned but two problems from what I understand for Pakistanis in Kuwait.1 they can never obtain citizenship. 2 They make much less money being Pakistani than Kuwait citizens from what my husband has told me.
    Now as far as your cowife asking more money to give to her family that is part of Pakistani culture I am afraid.In Pakistan it is understood that when one marries they must help in all matters with their wives family it is just a given there.I didn’t learn this until I myself told my own cowife that Hubby and I would support her naturally but never her parents.OH BOY did I create a great mess and tension in the family by that one simple statement.
    Sabrina I hate to say this but never never get to close to your cowife in Pakistan as she will never have your best interest at heart.She will always be looking out for her own welfare as well as her children and never yours.It is the Nature of the beast sorry to say.It is not that Pakistani females are bad people but instead it has to do with the family system that is set up there.Everything is passed to the oldest son normally.Everyone in that society has a place and a duty.I want to say something about the Pakistani wife and this goes for you to my dear if u should decide to move to Pakistan yourself.A Pakistani wife is subject under her husband and more so under her inlaws namely her mother inlaw.It is a very hard life because most mother inlaws are disagreeable and hard on their daughter inlaws.Pakistani wives are nothing more than mere servants and nothing more.I have lived in that society and this is the truth of it.
    Let me explain my situation when I live in Pakistan.Since I am from USA I am treated like mother inlaws prize pig!She is very happy to show me around like I am her personal trophy she has won and obtained.I have never liked her showing me off in such a manner and has always made me feel like a visitor and not part of the family.My 5 sister inlaws have always been very nice to me but only one has treated like I am a sister the others are just nice to my face only.The one sister that actually treats me like a sister is married to cowife brother if u can imagine.Her inlaws have made her call my husband demanding he divorce me and then she has to run back to me and tell me don’t divorce husband and let cowife win as if my marriage were some kind of game.It is not my sister inlaw fault as she is has a small daughter of her own and if she refused what her inlaws said then she get punished it is a vicious vicious cycle that degrades woman.Not to mention my sister inlaw has to listen to insults thrown her way on a daily basis from her inlaws to her husband,It truly is the saddest thing I have ever seen truthfully.As for my own cowife now excowife she waited on her/my husband 8 years in Pakistan to divorce me.While she was waiting on him to divorce me so he could legally remarry her and bring her to USA where she thought in her mind because hubby put it there of course she would just sit her pretty little A$$ on my property(Pakistani woman think everything is husbands even in USA and Europe as most are uneducated in the laws)So anyway my excowife because of her lack of education thought u see that because she blindly trusted her husband to divorce me she would herself by staying silent to me and not telling that he married me only to gain citizenship for his family would herself get USA herself thats why she stayed silent.She also assumed when she came to USA her/my husband would call her brothers and family to USA to work as well.So this is the sick disgusting nasty side of Pakistani family politics.This is the true nature of Pakistani people that I have witnessed.
    In my case I suspected 2 years into my marriage that my husband was not the knight in armor that he appeared to be.It had to do with my husband himself giving away himself and never knowing it.
    One day my husband brother inlaw called to chat with him.My husband was now very popular in Pakistan because he has come to USA and after my husband got off the phone he said something that would forever change my world.He said to me brother inlaw asked him what would happen if he divorced me and I sat there shocked as I listened to his reply.My husband said that it is not a big deal as he has a biological son by me and he shall never be kicked out of the country because of his son.Of course I knew that was wrong information as people get kicked out of USA everyday even if they do have USA citizenship children but that was the day I started to suspect my husband might have other motives towards me so I became concerned as I was not only raising my own biological child with my husband but also his child from his first marriage.So I thought what can I do to save the children and give me a strong hold on my marriage just incase hubby tries to divorce me so I decided to dangle a sweet carrot in front of my greedy little husbands eyes.I decided to offer to adopt his son from his first marriage so the child could obtain citizenship but in reality I was doing what any mother would do to protect her children.Hubby said it would just be a paper thing and I said sure!! of course dear!! So with my sweet words he had his first wife sign her rights away and I legally adopted their only son.
    Some people might say I was wrong and others a genius for what I did but In my mind I was just leveling the playing field with my husband and protecting my children.i was not about to raise my then stepson and invest my time effort and love to possibly loose him if divorce were to happen.
    Sabrina I tell you all this to not frighten you but to warn you that u are playing with fire.When it comes to Pakistani people you must must be smarter than they are if u are to survive.
    As far as your cowife I personally would never trust her as she obviously has some greed in this as well.She will for certain try for a son because she needs to produce an heir.I don’t know if the inlaws will accept your son to be honest as he will not be pure Pakistani.My inlaws act as though they accept my son but I am not 100% certain that they do and they sure didn’t mind lying to me for 8 years and keeping cowife and hubby secret.Of course it was to their advantage u see as they are now living in USA on greencards and next year father inlaw will apply for USA citizenship.It is very disgusting.
    Sabrina I live my life secretly in anger.My emotions are also numb I deal my life for the sake of my children but I secretly I am very disappointed in my marriage.
    One more thing I want to say I tried to befriend my cowife I truly did as I seen her life and felt sorry for her but what I failed to understand is that she/cowife only knows the culture she lives in and although she was very good to describe her anguish to me I failed to see she was being cunning and clever towards me and trying to get all information from me so she could figure out a way to destroy me and get rid on me so she could have her life back.What I have described is the true nature as I have seen it of Pakistani culture.
    I am sorry to say but I have to agree with Jenny very much and the only way a woman from the west will survive married to Pakistani man is to have her own financial worth because at anytime in the future he can kick you to the curb and at the very least mistreat you the same like any other Pakistani wife.

  • Sarata

    May 13, 2013

    Sorry, my last @J was meant to be @Kim

  • Sarata

    May 13, 2013

    Salaams all.
    Yesterday me,hub,son (toddler) & Co2be all went to the beach.
    At first I felt strange (we’ve all been together sooo many times but this time felt much diff)
    I felt like crying – I was looking at the same beautiful ocean and pending subset as always, but I couldn’t see the Beauty Astafirullah it was just water and sky sad That made me feel worse.

    Then I noticed my co had distanced herself a little from me & hub (she was playing with
    My son) & felt maybe she felt bad too.

    We all eventually relaxed mostly thanks to my husban and son entertaining us wrestle in the sand etc.
    But one I was home I was miserable again. And this morning I feel really empty and sad. Hub says to always talk to him about how I feel, but what’s the point repeating myself of it won’t chane anything??

    Ruqayya
    It Definately is a massive change. The marriage date is to be announced any day now.
    I feel like I’m mourning the future I planned – me hubs and children – the dynamic has changed and there’s nothing I can do about it. I feel really insecure & trapped – since meeting my hub I have NEVER felt uncertain about our future until now.

    @J Congrats on being in the same space as N and not wanting to run screaming. Sounds like the calming influence of your good friend helped balance the energy.
    In’shaa Allāh that might have been a turning point for you – Allah knows best.

  • Sabrina

    May 13, 2013

    @Jenny @Gail
    This morning I got up no message of him I’m half panicking and the other half like a numb calm. I know I went about it the wrong way but most of the message I left him is about the similar situation you got. I got to work keep being told to keep trying, when co wife who on a personal level got no bad feelings towards. Co wife stays home will never work and when at home doesn’t do much apparently. New into a marriage its quite a lot to take onboard and she always wants more money to give to the family. I think this time he wont contact me, I had ago at him for getting another wife when he was not in a financial situation or emotionally ready for another wife. He got his wish for a qualified wife but I don’t think he was prepared for the different mindset or the fact I might not want financial support but I want a different kind of support. Im confused how to handle the situation and by my own emotions.

  • Jenny

    May 13, 2013

    @ Gail,

    My hubby could have cared less about the elections either. The night before we left, the natives (our office is located in “Little “Pakistan) were going wild. Some celebrating, some protesting, and of course, the two clashed. Cops didn’t want to get involved, so they just blocked off the street.

    @ Kim,

    Congrats on the weight loss. You lose, I gain. Thanks a lot Kim!

    @ Sabrina,

    Wish I could give you good advice. Gail is the cheerleader around here. I would say get the hell out of dodge. I will say if you consider moving to the tribal village with him, I hope you know what you are getting into. You are going into the place that is named the worst place on earth to be a woman. You could be sold for a goat. You could be shot for reading. Forget going out alone. Being a Westerner, you’ll get kidnapped. Good luck, and I really mean it. You are in a sticky wicket.

  • Gail

    May 12, 2013

    Felicia,
    Strangely this election I have no interest as for hubby I heard him ask his mother the other day about the elections but I have no idea how he feels about it as he is not much for politics but instead his attentions are on making money money money.lol I do know he believes if Imran Khan get elected then Pakistan will go Modern.
    I wanted to comment on your friend and her living with her cowife.I think she is very courageous indeed.It is very hard to live with a cowife and everything u described is spot on.I will say though she should rethink her position with cowife children.She should consider the children her children as she is part of her husband and those children were born under polygamy.Besides their birth mother she is the closest to the children and she has just as much right to give advices and discipline the children as she also sees fit.If your friend is smart and if the children are still young enough she should gradually play more of a parental role in the children’s life.She is not just their fathers other wife but also their mother and should be treated and respected as such and it is very bad of the cowife to accept joint family and then mistreat her cowife in such a manner in my opinion.I can go more into this but I have to serve dinner.Do not take personal what I said about your friend as I myself and my cowife have lived this exact lifestyle.I will explain more later.I hope u are doing well Felicia.Gail

  • Sabrina

    May 12, 2013

    Hi all
    I commented in the past when finding it very hard to except polygamy. My husband is Pakistani, we got married last August 30. I am wife no 2, I wasn’t looking for a husband, or chase him, I don’t know what come over me to say yes. From the beginning he was honest with me, and his family agreed to the marriage, I think partly because how Gail has described they see it as access to the west and being educated with good job money, even though our plan I is to live in Kuwait where he is already established, but is starting since going back there having problems because their position with expats is changing. We married in August I lived with for 5 weeks came back to UK went back out end of October then he went back to Pakistan for 2 months in December this is when I started to fall apart. I no bad feelings to Co wife I keep asking how she is, how she feeling with this situation he says its normal for his culture, I remind him she still a woman with his kids. When he was in Pakistan I was going to end things because from my side cant cope with it. None of this was in life’s plan. Then when he came back he looked so stressed and awful I didn’t say anything. The other thing that has upset me was first he wanted a baby then he didn’t then he said no more babies of either of us(at time I thought odd, he comes from tribal area and needs boys so far he only got 3 girls so was expecting at least he try for boys with cowife if not me) so he was adamant before he went no more babies. Then after about 5 weeks being there we were talking on the phone and he said which I didn’t want to know details she had monthly last week and they were trying for a baby they need a boy. His sister told she had been praying he does not have any boys because of the land situation, and she has 4 boys. Because how he changes decisions he made me repulsed I don’t know if that best way to describe it. So when he came back how stressed he out he was I stayed quiet.. In March I went back to Kuwait to visit him and he looked ten yrs older. So on the visit I looked after him and he was looking better when I left. When opened his suitcase it was llike she hadn’t bothered with him I washed all the clothes and ironed them. All she seems to want is money. One part of me dearly loves him the other pushes him away. Since coming back to UK I have upset him twice already with messages how I feel and ignoring him. Today I pushed him away again left him message to end it and ignored he warned me not to do it again but inside not coping with it all what started me off this time is the problems in Kuwait he is thinking of moving back to Pakistan and me go and live there as well but he is not rich so we would all have to live in the same house. I know I cant cope with that at all. Not her in one room and me in another. Im to new to this idea of polygamy as it is, now I got my self in a state missing him cos usually we talk 2/3 hours a night on Skype and not wanting to be in the situation.

  • ana

    May 12, 2013

    Aishah, As Salaamu Alaikum,

    I don’t know why it does that. Inshah Allah, it won’t happen again. Sorry…

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Kim

    May 12, 2013

    Well girls, be proud of me. I’m proud of me, anyway….

    My son’s ex girlfriend came over with the baby so granddaughter could spend time with my son and with M. I don’t know if I mentioned this, but the ex girlfriend’s mother is a friend of mine going back twenty years and yes she has been an ear during this whole polygamy saga since day one and pretty much knows everything. She isn’t Muslim but she IS my sister of the heart if not the blood, and extremely openminded. She loves M like a brother.

    Anyways, so I thought my friend would just be dropping off her daughter and grandbaby, but no, she wanted me to go out for coffee with her so I did. Then she said “let’s go bum around til I have to get back home.” She suggested the shopping area where N lives and works.

    Welp, I knew N was working today at the big box, so I said OK. Came home quick and ran the idea by M and he said “it’s a great idea – take her some food”. So I packed up some of the lambchop curry with potatoes I’d made the night before along with rice and away we went.

    I introduced my good friend “L” to N for the first time. I think she was very, very stunned. I gave her the container of curry and my friend and I shopped around some then came back and she rang us up, gave me a hug and said thanks so much. And guess what – NO visceral reaction. I said a little prayer to keep my head on the straight n good, and it worked, Alhamdulillah happy

    She and M have a date tonight (not an overnight as far as I know) and I’m going to watch “Hunger Games” or something on Netflix and relax, insha Allah happy

  • Aishah 2013

    May 12, 2013

    Ana think maybe I had 2 that went into spam..

  • Ruqayya

    May 12, 2013

    @Kim,
    Congradulations on the weight loss big grin

    @Felicia,
    SubhanAllah that made my heart hurt. How your friend can stay is beyond me.. maybe it’s because things are so new, or because we STILL do not have our own home, but I get jealous if my husband is spending too much time with his friends. Well at least I used to.
    We once went out and his friends were going to the same place and I felt soo left out that I still refuse to go along anymore unless I have to, and even then I bring a book. I can’t imagine how painful that would be for your friend to know he loves his other wife too and… nope I don’t even want to think about the having children thing sad I fear a second like that, how can any husband think that is acceptable?
    Very sad indeed. One of my many fears of polygyny was that my co (should I get one) would have kids but I could not. Hubby said he would make her hand one over, hehehe. These men have no clue.

  • Mari2

    May 12, 2013

    @Kim

    I so understand your frustrations with co. I’m glad that you are in a state of peace today, and kudos on the weight loss. M. is working my last nerve lately with his inability to do justice as far as time is concerned. I’m working hard at putting my money where my mouth is, so to speak and remaining calm. So far, so good…today. But I too “blow” on occasion, and with my menses close at hand, my patience is suffering mightily right now.

    M works night shifts, and I work days, and for most of the days of the week, our work shifts overlap. That leaves us but a couple of days a week to squeak in some face time, usually no more than 6 hours a week. Add to that, the instability of #1 and M’s desire to keep peace with her, and some weeks, my hours with him can often dwindle even more. I was supposed to have time last night, as for once he wasn’t working, but #1 went on an all day rant and in order to keep peace, he stayed with her instead of coming here. I was able to text with him today once #1 settled into her prescription narcotic slumber, but once again, no face time. I wanted to yell at M but didn’t because it won’t change anything and I can’t change her or his fear of her.

    Instead I’ve spent the day cooking a glorious pre menses feast for myself, took the dog on a long walk and enjoyed the breezy spring day, then I dashed to the mall to redeem my free panty coupon at Victoria’s Secret. So now I have enough homemade spaghetti sauce to feed a village, a pumpkin spice cake, a loaf of sun dried tomato bread, and a clean fork. I’ll put on a pot of low carb pasta and enjoy my feasthappy Better to focus on what we have, rather than what we have not.

  • Felicia

    May 12, 2013

    Hi Gail,
    How is your hubby behaving about the elections in Pakistan?
    Mine is switching tv channels between the IPL T20 cricket and the updates on the elections since Friday. Up until yesterday, Saturday my time, he would secretly watch the election update not realising I can hear in the kitchen. So I stepped into the room and asked him what the latest update was, as I do have a tiny bit of interest in world politics. after that he has not been so secretive. we don’t discuss it like we used to discuss Pakistani politics any more just watch and that’s that. Pity the trust has died between the two of us. We did discuss the cricket match though. Our relationship has changed so much and I had never thought I would and could be so cold towards his family. Sigh… so so sad.

  • Felicia

    May 12, 2013

    @ Ruqayya,
    I had tears in my eyes when I read your comment. May Allah grant you patience and guide you to the path that is best for your marriage.

    I have a friend who is in polygamy, and shares her home with her Co. She cannot conceive and her husband has married again, he is now a father of 4. My friend says she had asked that Co and her share a home. My friend’s fear was that if Co had her own home and their hubby was on a schedule it was possible that once Co had children, Co would always be having emergencies related to the children, that only hubby could attend to. Eventually hubby would forget about my friend. So to overcome this possibility she invited Co into her home. They have separate bedrooms but the rest of the house is a common area.
    The initial stages was very hurtful and tiresome. Co thought that #1 would be doing all the cleaning and cooking. This is what actually happened, whilst Co and hubby watched movies and relaxed, yes, hubby saw nothing wrong with this. My friend would always ask Co for help or tell her today is your day to cook and nothing would happen.
    Nothing could be and still is as painful as Co waking up every morning after her night with hubby and making ghusl and coming into the kitchen with wet hair even on days of her menses.
    One day my friend decided she is joining them to watch a movie and when it was time to eat hubby goes “dish up”. To his surprise there is no food. She took this opportunity to explain to them both what she sees as a schedule, not just sharing the husband but the household chores. She outright told him she is not the maid to the mother of his children. If he can afford a 2nd then he can afford a maid to help her. He sat there dumbfounded. after that Co started doing her share. Until the babies came along. so there was another sit down. Chores discussed and things ironed out.
    burning issues at the moment are 1) co allows the children to walk around the house and eat so there is food all over, my friend is neat and tidy and likes discipline, a place for everything and everything in it’s place. she has to close her eyes to this. she used to clean up before but no-one actually cares. She is not allowed to “train or teach” the children so she doesn’t see herself cleaning up after them. So now hubby gets frustrated and calls on Co to clean up 2) when it is her night co puts the children to bed early and lights out after Esha, when it’s my friend’s night there is always something co needs to watch on tv and asks hubby to join her, or the kids will be running around playing till late at night and hubby has to play with them. So hubby gets to the room late and exhausted. when my friend discussed this with him, obviously she was over reacting.
    Unless you have a huge home you are constantly walking into each other, there is no privacy to make a phone call. There is only so much you can share with a Co, if you lucky you can be best friends.
    It is also very stressful on hubby as he cannot show affection to any wife in front of the other.
    My friend complains that it is very stressful it’s like she and co are always in competition especially in clothes. She knows co is also stressed and is possibly experiencing similar emotions as she but feels it is not necessary as co has the children and should not feel threatened in anyway. She has had to make many sacrifices in maintaining a neat home and accepting Co’s style in the upbrining of the children. (their is about a 10 year age difference between the wives.)
    My friend has decided to start fertility treatment again so the entire house is now stressed.
    On rare occasions I visit them, but I couldn’t stomach it from day one and my friend knows I do it only for her. I prefer the two of us meet at a restaurant or I bring her to my home. Her hubby doesn’t like me much as I am too independent but always says #1 comes home smiling after she visits with me. Reality, we spend a lot of time zikring and reading Quraan together.
    I have seen the change in her personality and it is sad. She still sticks to her decision, she says that 6-7years later co is still trying to get rid of her, I don’t doubt it.
    May Allah guide them to the straight path in this test He has given them.

  • Aishah 2013

    May 12, 2013

    The word should be nikkah not milkshake. Funny probably the milkshake more age and responsibility appropriate to her than the nikkah to an older man with wife and familyhappy

  • Aishah 2013

    May 12, 2013

    Oh some days just needing to blog get it out see if any of it makes sense.one of those days where i say geez I will probably just end up divorced or at least separated sometime.I totally think as the first wife who has house she pays for bills she pays for kids work and a whole lot of responsibility I totally have different expectations than 2nd who is young dependent possibly easily impressed and who is basically getting a free ride at this time in her life.I am the reality she is the fantasy.but realistic one comes off sounding like a b##ch while her demands are different.he probably gets to be the hero every time.mid life crisis!!!not mine…so he is doing stuff for her fixing up..well we need it too but he was very angry when I said it.what’s gonna be is gonna be I will be OK no matter what happens.also think playing into it is fact he thinks I’m going to reach out to her..I’m not .the best I can do is not communicate and risk the drama fitnah accusations of being mean that come towards me.(basic underlying cause because I asked questions about how they met and when their milkshake was.maybe it didn’t happen at all or its a verbal one.don’t know)does he not realize he is better off with us not speaking instead of him stressing art always running to the princess ‘s rescue?just one of those days.think he is disliking me more for not trying again with her.crazy!!!

  • Gail

    May 12, 2013

    Kim,
    continued:
    Even though my cowife is now my excowife I will always be kind to her and help her as much as I can.It doesn’t matter to me that she was wishing my worse because I believe G.D wants me to see myself what I am doing not what the next person is doing.

  • Gail

    May 12, 2013

    Kim,
    I am so proud of u!!!!!!! If u will keep in your mind that this is one mega roller coaster ride that you are never getting off with highs and lows,curves and straights then it is best for you.There really is nothing wrong with you well or I should say if there is something wrong with you then I have the same issue as well.LOL
    Kim I swear my cowife drained me of all my energy also.I love her dearly but Good Golly miss Molly she is crazy girl.She would tell me she is not jealous of me etc… but yet her mother and father both came to the inlaws and demanded to my MIL for hubby to divorce me GO FIGURE!! She is Stupid what can I say.She is already divorced demanding hubby divorce me lol.Even she called here in USA angry at him saying what about her meaning are you going to divorce Gail.Hubby told her he was finished with her and go ask her mother as she knows better for her daughter.He was rubbing salt in her wounds they all the time fight worse than hubby and I.Come to think about it hubby fights with her but goes silent on me.Not certain why that is I will have to ask him about that.
    Kim listen the more your going to stay calm and not react to N and M everytime one of them runs their mouth the better off u are going to be in my opinion.You must must must get a thicker skin if u are going to associate with her.I will say this as time goes on and years pass and everyone stops feeling like a cat ready to pounce relaxation does set in.I have this personal saying that the person that will be crying the hardest and feeling the most pain at my funeral will be my cowife because she is the only person in my life that really knew my feelings because she herself went through the same emotions.I always say we are each others mirror.When I see my cowife I see myself.

  • Kim

    May 12, 2013

    Asalaam aleikum,

    Sis Ruqayya, I hear you. I completely understand. I’ve said recently that I have and have had an issue with being territorial, possessive, which I think possibly I mistook for “love”. It is such an ingrained behavior and very difficult to overcome. We see it in toddlers…a child plays with a toy, puts it aside, moves on to something else. Another child picks up that discarded toy and all the sudden there’s a fight over it. Animals do the same exact thing with food. We used to have 2 dogs (one died a couple years ago sad ) anyway, he was not a big eater, but the other dog is. So if he had anything left over, the other dog would decide she gets it. But HECK no….big boy laid into her. So yes, it’s natural to have those feelings, and a jihad and a half to get past it. I know just how much of a jihad it is. (See: me the last few days).

    Sis Ruqayya, the “mislead” aspect on N you spoke of actually was a grand total of 4 days from the time they expressed an interest in each other, so far as I know. And it wasn’t so much an instance of misleading as it was a sin of omission. Semantics, probably, but bottom line is she knew about me a very long time before I knew about her and it was laid out clear that there was not going to be any divorce by him from me. If I chose to divorce, that was another matter entirely, but no, he was staying put in his marriage, and I made it clear once I quit freaking out and took stock of the situation, that I wasn’t going to divorce him either. And THAT is when she went a little bonkers.

    Having said all that, I am VERY happy to report that the rest of me is back on the sane train. I feel great. I even called N and wished her a happy Mother’s Day this morning. I may need therapy (pretty sure that’s the case, I’m so freakin bipolar lately I’m giving myself vertigo), but I’m going to do my level best to be good, kind, and supportive again going forward insha Allah…I believe the key is to take it slow and M should not be the go-to topic of conversation between she and I…we get along FINE (though not in person yet) if we talk about anything else except M and the situation. I just want to tell her (and him) slow your roll and let this work itself out the way Allah intended, mmmkay?

    I woke up in a fantastic mood, am down 13.5 lbs as of today and my fat jeans are falling offffff!!!! Ok, not falling off but I can fit my fist easily between the waistband and my body, ok? LOLOL!!!

  • Ruqayya

    May 12, 2013

    @Felicia,
    My husband does want me to be a part of the process.. we discussed polygyny before marriage and we both agreed it wouldn’t work if I wasn’t involved. He actually told me if it happens he wants me to pick the potentials for him, but I’m really not comfortable with that, so we agreed others could find the girl and I would come along to the meetings (from the very first). Of course this was before I loved him, now I want no part of it as I can’t see past the anguish I feel. Hence why I’m here, I need to stop obsessing about this. He loves me, he is a fantastic husband, he will miss me if he does get remarried just as much as I’ll miss him and I will not be replaced, I will always be special to him. inshaAllah.

    @Gail,
    It’s very hard to hear, but I can’t bear to walk away. Thankfully we have a very strict no lies rule in our marriage, plus my husband is very suspicious when he tries to hide something.. He want’s me to be a part of building our family, and any subsequent families he could potentially have. He was very bewildered when I told him polygyny would give him two separate familes, he things we can all be one big family *rolls eyes* easier said than done.
    I have considered living in one house and yes some parts do sound appealing, like having him there every single day, never being alone etc. But at the end of the night I will still be in my bed alone, and that’s the most important time to me, it’s when me and hubby wind down and talk about our days, cuddle and just enjoy one another’s company before we drift off.
    Other parts of living together do not sit well with me and they far outweigh being alone every second day. Plus I do not wish to make something that will be so hard on me so easy for him to obtain (selfish I know, but I’m learning that even though he is my husband there will be times where he will need to make a decision based solely off his own desire/comfort, so I need to do the same). I have agreed to two houses on the same street or same block so that during the day he can come back and forth but at night time we each lock down in our own houses so to speak. I feel better about that, I will have him on call for emergencies or lonely days, but when it’s my time she will be no where to be seen (hopefully).

    I’m trying not to obsess about if, what, when, etc and just leave it for the future. But some days are easier than others.

    @Kim,
    I’m so worried I’d be like N. :\ I don’t want any other woman with my husband, I’m possessive, I want him all to myself lol. This is another reason I disagree with a joint household, I looked at my intentions when I considered having one house and realised the only reason it sounded appealing was because if she moved into MY house where I was already established I could put certain restrictions upon her so that it would put strain on her marriage. That’s not the kind of person I want to be… But I already see myself becoming that. Hubby jokes I become a different person when he discusses polygyny. It’s no longer allowed to be a topic of discussion in our marriage, not until it’s a possibility at least.
    I’m sorry you are going through all this. I can understand that kind of thing coming from a first wife, but N sounds like the classic “homewrecker” she’s not looking to join a family but looking to gain for herself. This is what most first wives fear I think. But in saying that your husband did mislead her, not saying that in her defense, but I guess she never really understood it would be polygyny. Just like Gail mentioned, second wives need to be clear on the fact that they will be a second, third, fourth for things to have any hope of working out.

    @Sarata,
    I understand completely and my heart really goes out to you. We become comfortable with things the way they are. For me I feel like any change in regards to him getting a new wife feels like an attack on our marriage. It’s not like kids where it’s something we share but a new life for him that I have no part of… that I can’t be a part of and he chose not to have me a part of. That’s a difficult pill to swallow. I know that women ARE happy in polygyny, inshaAllah will yours so close you will be able to focus on the good parts and your hubby and future co will help you through the bad. Thankfully you got one who cares already about you and if your hubby is strong he wont allow either of your emotions to come in the way of the family working together.

  • Jenny

    May 12, 2013

    Just wanted to jump in and say hello! Just reached our hotel in Europe. Soooooo tired! Going to take a nap for about an hour, then going out for a beef sausage and beer. Can’t have anymore after tomorrow. IVF is Tuesday. Not a beer drinker, but have to sample the local specialties! happy for dessert, we are going to sit on the river, there is a Viennese coffee house. It’s going to be an early night. Tomorrow afternoon leaving for Prague, but we’ll be back in Vienna the end of the week.

  • Kim

    May 11, 2013

    ARGH. My laptop is insane. It deleted another post.

    Anyway, thanks J, you’re a sweetie. You all are such lovely ladies Masha Allah happy I don’t know what I’d do without you guys to help me get my head on straight.

    And J, BINGO. NO N isn’t in this because she believes a man can have another wife, she’s in it solely for M, and I’m just a reality she has been forced to accept. Very reluctantly accept. And now, depend on, strange as it sounds. Anyways, there was another bit to a conversation we had that illustrated that real well, about her not accepting polygamy. Basically she told me that she went to a wedding several weeks ago in her mosque, where the sheikh who performed hers and M’s nikah (and oversaw their subsequent divorce) was conducting the ceremony. During it, he made reference to the Holy Qur’an and Surah 4 verse 3 (which I assume we’re all familiar with). Remember N has a flair for the dramatic so take this with a grain or 10 of salt, but she told me when he recited it, she started bawling and jumped up and out of the middle of the wedding. Because in her view, “why did Allah decree such a thing when it’s so hurtful and no man can be just and fair, it’s wrong!”

    Wellllll astaghfirullah, is all I could say. But that’s N for you. No she doesn’t accept it as a man’s right in Islam. She tolerates it because M made it clear he won’t divorce me. And I thought I made it clear there ain’t no running me off either.

  • J

    May 11, 2013

    Kim, forgive you for what? girl please we are human mashaAllah. You have spill your thoughts and emotions it helps you and us happy

    I feel in a rut right now. Unfortunatly man I mean I have everything to be greatful for I mean everything, and am just not feeling happy at all. This stuff just drains you. I mean really drains you.
    UGH InshaAllah with time ill snap out of it, hub has been sweet lately too. Planning all these dates…hhmmm thats new and I just cant seem to cheer up.

  • Aishah 2013

    May 11, 2013

    Kim seriously I hear ya!!!in the past I made myself a plan to try for 30 days to give Co just a courteous salaams shout out hello how are you kind of thing..I think I did for like 2months and it became more habit..but did not prevent more junk from happening if I said anything more than superficial.Always crying to “daddy”she was so ceasing communication was much better.not for him of course.I have acknowledged it makes it more difficult for him.has not stopped him from trying unfortunately.just today he asked me to call her and do her a favor.I was otherwise occupied anyway but have asked him to stop pushing it..

  • Kim

    May 11, 2013

    Asalaam Aleikum and please welcome back the SANE Kim happy

    I went for an unscheduled walk, talked for a long time with M, during my walk through the park I sat for quite awhile outside even though it’s hella windy out, and let myself just “drift” in my thoughts. And let Allah blow the negativity away with the wind. Alhamdulillah, it had an amazing peaceful effect. I’m good now. M and I are good now. As far as N, I think y’all are right…I did my part, and any kind of BFFing she wants isn’t going to happen and will only add issues…I can not do that, the result invariably will spell trouble with a capital T and fitnah with a ginormous F. I can say my civil salaams and how are yous, I guess, but no more cozy chitchat where she starts throwing daggers disguised in sugar. I may be way too tempted to return them threefold.

    I am so sorry for monopolizing the thread with my same old crap. Ana, everyone, please forgive me.

  • J

    May 11, 2013

    KIM

    Asalamu Alaykum omg ive been wanting to write all day and finally have the time. I like what everyones responces overall have been. Man I felt so upset at your husband lol. How are you feeling now? SubhaanAllah personally tell your husband to grow some balls and I mean that not in a offensive way to you. But come on..wtf..I hate men that think they have balls to get another wife but no balls to keep them in check, am talking about the disrespectful ones like N. like huh? when your husband heard about what N said he shoulda went off at her, and told her that shit better never happen again. May Allah make this easy for you and make you stronger inshaAllah, after hardship comes easy. Maybe you can go over all the boundaries with your hubala again to make things clear, and NEVER cook any food for them, let him eat her cooking so he can miss yours lol. And dont talk to this N chik no matter how much or about what she wants to talk to you about just end it with her, cause obviously she isnt in this because she believes a man can have more than one wife, shes just in it for him and it seems like her intentions are to get rid of you, and she will not be satisfied so it seems. You seem like an awesome catch and if your husband is stupid enough to be getting dizzy with N, he will definitely regret it. I believe a saying goes you dont miss your water till the well runs dry.

    I can already see it, I think she feeds of your energy, so by you cutting her off either slowly or cold turkey will eat her up. Alhamdulillah we have Allah and his Messenger PBUH. And the reward is with Allah alone not the people.

    “O you who believe, seek help through patience and prayer, Indeed Allah is with the patient” Surah Baqarah verse 153

  • Mari2

    May 11, 2013

    @Kim,
    I’ve been in your place before and I understand what you are feeling.

    But now that Allah has revealed to you what HE thinks you should be aware of, what will be your action? Will you submit to the status quo? Will you chain yourself with fitnah? Will you bring about a change in your life? What will be your decision? What may be Allah’s plan for you? These are all things to be reflected and prayed upon once the anger subsides. I could hand you my opinion, but alas, I am not the creator of the universehappy One piece of advice I will give you though…when I become angry about things, I remind myself that I am NOT the center of the universe, life doesn’t revolve around me (despite the fact I’d like it to). I am strong, don’t get me wrong, but I’m no longer committed to the erroneous belief that I live in a fairy tale and everything should go my way. Sometimes, life just sucks and only Allah knows why.

  • Aishah 2013

    May 11, 2013

    Kim I think you should just cut communication with her.you said a gut visceral reaction to seeing her.I get that.Mari2 advice good.see it didn’t take long before it all started again.I know that would happen in my case too.so I’m standing firm on where I’m at

  • Kim

    May 11, 2013

    Ah, Mari2, you’re not being harsh, you’re being real. There’s a part of me that is in total agreement with every word you said and I’m doing my level best to get the rest of me there.

    The thing is, yes, snooping got me back into a state. But I’d rather be informed than ignorant I guess, for all the good the “informed” does me. I was played for a fool for months when they were cavorting behind my back and you know the saying, fool me once, shame on you…fool me twice, shame on me. I won’t be fooled ever again. Even if it draws the worst feelings, I want to know where things are so nothing comes ’round and slaps me in the face again. I want them both to know I’m not sitting over here in ignorant happy land….

    On a good note, I’m down at least 12.5 lbs. Physically I feel pretty good (if one can ignore the menses issues). I walked off lots of anger this morning and really look forward to tonight’s walk. Wish there was a punching bag around instead though.

  • Mari2

    May 11, 2013

    @Kim,

    Why are you letting this all bother you? N is who she is and nothing will change that. She’s poison psychologically, but fortunately for you, she is not your wife. Your husband sees her for what she is, and for whatever reason, he allows her to be the way she is. That is his burden, don’t let him make it/her yours. Stop all contact with N. Tell your husband that you are doing so because N puts you in a bad frame of mind and wish to no longer have anything to do with her. End of story. Your choice. No more catty N. BS for you to deal with. N. lives to get a rise out of you. Take away you, and your emotions, and N has nothing to play with. She’s a pot stirrer, so remove the pot.

    Build a wall with Allah’s help. Explain to your husband that when he is with you, and it is your time, you would appreciate justice. Tell him that he must compartmentalize his two marriages and not mention N. or anything to do with N, when it is your time. As far as middle of the night texts, yes they violate what you have agreed upon, however you can shield your self from knowing if you don’t snoop. As a friend of mine says “If you go looking for dirt, you’re sure to find some.” Let it go. Your husband is the one who will have to deal with his missteps on judgment day. It’s his bed, let him lie in it. His indiscretions are his alone. You can choose to stay or leave, because you are only in control of yourself. Trying to change husband, putting yourself in a bad emotional place for husband, arguing with N., etc will only cause you fitnah, because you can’t change other people. And it is not your responsibility to expose anyone’s lies. Allah already sees their lies, He doesn’t need your help.

    I hope you don’t think I am being harsh. I only say these things because I too get angry. But anger is weakness, and is unproductive for our lives for the most part. I have learned in the past how withering anger can be to one’s psych, and how it can mess with one’s faith. There are many parts of the Quran which deal with anger, and I try to reflect on them when I feel my anger rising.

  • Gail

    May 11, 2013

    Ruqayaa,
    I understand where u are coming from when u stated that it is not fair that the husband leaves his wife every second day to go be with the other wife.You need to tell your husband that if u wanted a single life u would have remained single and you need one or 2 hours a day to do things not 48 hours.
    I think u already know that him going back and forth is not going to be acceptable to you so u might have to think to live joint family system.If you guys are young and have small children or planning to have children then u should consider one family unit.Since your Mulsim both wives can have separate rooms.I know it is really hard to share that way but the benefits are great.You will see your husband everyday and be able to hug and kiss him and show your affections towards him and your children will have their father everyday.It is something to seriously think about.I don’t think Islamically it is wrong because their are muslims living joint family system as long as the wives have separate rooms.Anyway it is something to think about.In my case cowife and I lived together when I lived in Pakistan over the years.I am raising her children and have adopted them along with my and hubby biological child.In our case there was never an option to live separate because of the children.

  • Kim

    May 11, 2013

    Gail, I hear what you’re saying. I cannot stand to physically be anywhere near her, the reaction is instant and visceral. I cannot explain what it does, but I’ve been around other people like that before and I avoid them like the plague. I just cannot be around her face to face. Not if I value what shreds of clarity I have left.

    It’s entirely possible he did tell her something that GAVE her those impressions, but since he has been forthright with other stuff I don’t think he’d lie about this. I grilled him good, this morning, and one thing I got out of him was that he DID tell her he considers her his wife still.

    No, he didn’t give her the three talaqs, I don’t think. So technically I suppose they’re still married Islamically. They had relations the last time he was there, I know that (yes, he told me, so he DOES tell me stuff even when it’s not the easiest thing to hear). Because the night after when he was home he wanted relations and I said I didn’t think I could since I was quite sure he did the do the night before with her. He didn’t deny it, but wondered why now it’s a problem. I informed him that it was always a problem, but I was in pure competition mode before, and that’s not the case now. I said give me a day or two. That turned into a few more days til last night. Anywaysssss…..

    I assure you I intend to get to the bottom of it. I’m well aware there’s a he said/she said/the truth going on and that truth is likely somewhere in the middle.

  • Gail

    May 11, 2013

    Kim,
    I read your post.I disagree with you about staying away from N.I think u need to get to the bottom of who is lying.I will be honest with you from what u typed I and said all last week I think it is possible he might have said those things to her.
    Kim take yourself outside the box and turn your emotions off for a minute is it possible that N might be trying to give u a heads up that hubby is talking behind your back and u are taking her wrong?I ask u this because of everything u posted last week about hubby swooning like a love sick puppy over N.Listen one thing I am starting to figure out about men is that they tend to play mind games with the woman they are with.I also notice they know they have us when we get emotional with them and do the make up sex.I have been on this roller coaster awhile now myself.
    Listen don’t just cut N off right now I think you will be making a mistake u should get to the bottom of whats really going on here.It is possible N is back to her old self and trying to get rid of u but I would say I doubt it.I think your hubby is trying to play both sides of the fence to be honest.He has been swooning over N all week and he was rattling off to her in his love sick mood and rattled a little to much.Did he mean everything he said Maybe but more chances maybe not.You are his safe old dog (which is a good thing).Right now your hubby has seen a different side of N one that is attracting him to her.Maybe it is the fact that she gave up on him and started moving on with her life and when hubby turned around to see if she was following him he seen she was not there understand?You mentioned N had started moving on with her life and started leaving hubby alone.Normally in most cases when the cat and mouse chase stops then the cat/hubby or lover will turn around and run for the person who was chasing them to begin with.In your case N was chasing M and she stopped and when M seen she stopped he said OHHH I am not special to N anymore she stopped chasing me so what does he do he starts missing her and N did a very good job weather she realizes it or not because now she has M attention very well.
    Sounds silly I know but Gosh It happens everyday and there are books written on the subject.lol
    Anyway if I were you don’t cut your own throat just yet and write N off I don’t get the impression that she is as horrible as u are thinking she is.I really do think hubby in his love sick mood for N spouted off things and obviously he is not going to confess to you if he did that understand.
    I think u should get over your menstrual cycle and all the PMS that goes with it and then go talk face to face with N without your hubby and try to figure out if she is trying to befriend u now.
    I am telling you all this because I tried to tell my cowife what hubby was saying behind her back and she refused to believe me.I told her straight hubby was going to divorce her.I told her straight every single thing that hubby said he didn’t love her straight to her face and on the phone and computer many times over.I tried my absolute best to be her friend and protect her but she was taking me wrong and was thinking I wanted to get rid on her.Here is the very weird thing I noticed in Polygamy that was so hard for me to figure out.Part of me wanted my cowife gone so I could feel hubby loves me and picked me I am the love of his life.The the other part of me wanted to be morally good and keep her and her and I stand side by side and protect each others rights.Polygamy is always always fighting with your morals verses that need to be the love of your husbands life(at least it is that way for me).Even if hubby did take cowife back which he is not but if he did I would struggle with these types of feelings as so would she.
    I notice your morals are very strong Kim and u are being very good to N and M.
    Kim what are your and hubby and N plans now as far as moving back to kashmire? Is that going to happen?Is N going to move to Kashmire if u and M move back?Also I am curious from an Islamic perspective Did M give N 3 talaqs and if so how can he remarry her.I don’t know if this is a Pakistani culture thing or Islamic but if he gave her 3 talaqs then doesn’t she have to remarry another man first before he can remarry her?I read some on all this years ago when I felt fishy on my husband I am just curious how all this is going to work out Islamically?
    If it were me I would just tell hubby straight if he got carried away with his mouth with N then knock off and set the record straight with N.I think it will be up to you and N to keep hubby on the straight and narrow and if N is up to her old tricks time then it is better u find out now from her what she wants.I think if N wants u gone she will tell u straight she can’t deal it like last time or she will say M is talking crap behind your back.If thats the case u have 2 choices either N and U join forces to get hubby on the straight and narrow (You 2 work together) to keep peace and harmony or You decide to cut N off forever the same as ANA has done with C.It is your choice but u will need to do something or u may end up divorced or miserable in my opinion.I respect Ana choice and it obviously works great for her but I couldn’t live that way it would mentally harm me not to know everything about my husband and his life and what he is doing.For me personally I just couldn’t live polygamy that way bit thats just me.You will have decide what it is best for Kim.
    I don’t want u to think I am taking N side over M I just wanted to say their is always 3 sides to every story his side,her side,and the truth.

  • Kim

    May 11, 2013

    @ Sarata,

    Yes he usually does. Or so he says anyway. He told her clear out NO MORE FITNAH but she’s at it anyway.

    I had another fit this morning. M was sleeping in excessively late for what time we went to bed, so I took a gander over to his cellphone account online, and lo and behold, a 30 minute conversation at 2am, less than an hour after we were intimate and I went to sleep. I freaked OUT. We had this issue over a year ago…NO getting up in the middle of the night to call the other. I thought that was a well established boundary.

    So when he woke up I let him have it, albeit not quite as ferocious as last night, and just simply said this is unacceptable. UNACCEPTABLE. Why would you need to call her at 2 in the freaking morning AFTER having relations with me????

    He said he’d just thought to leave her a message. To what purpose? And I ain’t buying it anyway – he would never call someone at 2am unless he was reasonably sure they were up. I might be a tad naïve but I’m no idiot. So I’m back to fuming again, I am SO sick of being disrespected like this.

  • Sarata

    May 11, 2013

    @Kim – walaikum salaam sis.
    Sorry you had an emotional meltdown, glad you feel a bit better today.
    Yest was my day for that too, and today I also have swollen stinging eyes.
    But I’m in the calm after the storm now too Alhamdulillah.
    (saying that they haven’t even married yet, & my cowife to be is as sweet & pious as they come lol!)

    Maybe we just have to let it all out sometimes?

    My hub told me last night that whenever I’m
    Feeling anything negative I need to tell him so he can at least try to address it.
    I was feeling completely insecure and scared about the future (I’m in his home country without my friends & family – in fact,he and cowife 2b ARE my friends and family here – go figure! •_•)

    Does your hub lay down the law with her when she starts her nonsense?

  • Kim

    May 11, 2013

    Asalaam aleikum all,

    Well, I had my meltdown. It was an epic meltdown reminiscent of the good old days when I first found out about N. Wow. The stuff I hurled out of my mouth….I threw a glass of water in his face, told him to go F himself, the works. My eyes are swollen like golfballs from crying.

    We did make up late last night…and HOW, but yeah. So what started it? N is pulling her same nasty tricks. You know, the sweet smile (it was on the phone but you know what I mean) then the stab, the continued sweet smile, the twist of the knife. And I didn’t say a word to her (because the last thing I wanted was a cat fight over the dang phone) but M got hit with it later…because she was telling me stuff he’d allegedly said over the past week about me and about our marriage. Negative things. And I wanted the truth.

    Ok, she told me that he told her that: 1. He has nothing with me. 2. That he considers her his “real” wife and true love. 3. That he is discussing a future for the TWO of them.

    He emphatically denies he said these things. He did tell her that he and I are best friends, but I told her that too, as it is the truth. We’re not the romantic type, as in demonstratively affectionate and glued at the hip…doesn’t mean we don’t share a romantic love as well, because we do. And we certainly have intimacy. He swears he didn’t tell her she’s his real wife; in fact he told her not to interfere with his marriage with me because he will not leave his wife no matter what. And no, he absolutely did NOT discuss a future for the two of them.
    ,
    So, someone’s lying and playing with my head. Again. It’s her M.O., it’s classic N manipulation so I am pretty sure it’s she that’s lying. Well, no matter who it is lying, I will. Not. Tolerate. That. I blew a gasket and it turned into a whole epic battle as if the time that has passed since the old days never happened. Among the many things I threw at him was that I felt our marriage was just an insurance policy…and “well, honey, that policy has lapsed.” Meaning, if things didn’t work out with N, there was no longer good old Kim to fall back on as there has been.

    I have said before that this thing left an effect on me like Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and I had no idea how true that is. I had major, major flashbacks with major reactions just like I had before. Told him to get out, if he truly loves her he doesn’t need me, go live his fairytale life with his “real wife” in Bollywood land, etc etc etc. I cried for hours. But then he came to me and tried to comfort me and talk, I wanted nothing to do with it. Then later I went to him and apologized for attacking him, that I thought of him being gone for good and couldn’t take it, etc. We made up later (you know what I mean). Then this morning I woke to Ms. Menses and am dying with cramps and feel like I’ve been hit by a truck then thrown through a blender for good measure. Ughhhhh, I am exhausted. Gone is the strong and confident me who detached from the drama. WTH! I want her back! I liked her!

    As I’ve said, this ain’t no easy ride for no one. I need to get my feet back on the terra firma of my own life again…I’ve said I felt myself getting sucked into that fatal vortex of wrapping my existence around M, I know from experience that only leads nowhere but to a vicious cycle of emotional upheaval. No person, even a spouse, is worth that.

    I got it out of my system, am reasonably calm and collected now. I have to nip this “oversharing” in the bud before I get play by plays of their life again that I don’t want to have. I really don’t want to speak to her at all. And what did she do yesterday? Told M she wanted to talk to me, hadn’t spoken to me for TWO WHOLE DAYS…did she say something wrong and upset me??? When he told me about that conversation he had with her (after our fight wound down), I just shook my head. And now he knows why she asked if she’d said something wrong to me.

    *sigh*…

  • Sarata

    May 11, 2013

    @Ruqayyah
    I totally get where you’re coming from. It’s all “easier said than done” when it comes to this topic!
    In theory – my husband marrying my best friend (who is already like part of the family) should be no major adjustment. I can sometimes envision a happy outcome if we all try hard for the sake of Allah.
    But as the reality draws closer I’m experiencing all the emotional termoil I’ve read is usual / expected. Doesn’t make it any easier.
    Yesterday I had a complete mini breakdown. First at home alone, then again in the evening when u was with hubs.
    I felt completely broken. After many tears, talking and a big headache I feel better today Alhamdulillah.
    I felt like I’d given up / failed Allahs test before its even started.
    All those lovely positive blogs are encouraging and something to aspire to In’sha Allāh.

    But Ana’s blog like you say is active and a whole mixed bag of people and their experiences / advice.

    I haven’t been here long (& when I read how some of the sisters have been unfairly treated by their hubs I feel I’m so ungrateful for my blessings) but I’ve already found it a really supportive community Mashallah!

    @Ana I read the other post about the blog and it makes much more sense to me now I know a little Of how it works.
    May Allah reward your hard work and efforts for your grateful sisters ameen! x

  • Ruqayya

    May 11, 2013

    @Ana,
    Jazakhallah kheir (may Allah swt reward you with goodness) for the reminder, my husbands state is in Allah swt’s hands no in his or my own. However there is an aspect of free will in all choices, he may have the desire and the qadr (devine decree) to get remarried but he doesn’t have to be a jerk about it or lie to me saying it will be easy if I just change myself etc etc. We cannot control certain things and other things we can (otherwise there would be no punishment for sins as Allah azawajal would have made us do it… In saying that I understand what you are saying, I can control myself but I cannot control my husband or his spouses etc, so accepting that it is Allahs will whatever comes my way will be liberating. I see it in every aspect except my husband, allahu alm (God only knows) why.

    @J,
    Aren’t men funny? My husband told me he would try polygamy and if I disliked it he would just divorce her, no harm done right?
    I wish you all the best, whether he did divorce her or not, if not may you learn to accept what has happened for the sake of the reward in the hereafter.

    @Sarata,
    Jazakhallah kheir for the intention, but I understand Ana’s position on the blog, if they will be beneficial I know Allah swt will guide me to them happy . I have found other sites which are good but I think I need an active interactive one. The emotions I feel now it actually angers me to hear people talking about the benefits of polygamy for the individual. I wish they would just tell it how it is. What benefit is there for a mother for her husband to leave every second day?
    I asked my husband that today and he said “You’ll get free time and can do things for you.” -.- he is the one to ask for free time from me, not the other way around. Plus if I have kids I will still have responsibility of them and half the help from him, half the love, half the time while he gets love and attention every single day… Yeah so not seeing the benefit for the individual, but I do see it for the community.

    I have to go get ready so I will respond to you Gail soon hopefully happy

  • Gail

    May 10, 2013

    Jenny,
    It has gone way past telling him anything he just doesn’t listen he believes he is doing the right thing and he is doing the right thing for him but it is obviously not the right thing for me or the children.The main problem I see is that I must have separate finances.
    Jenny I believe everything u say that your husband lets u deal with everything.We don’t have a fixed income with my inlaws but I am pretty certain that is coming next because his parents are getting old and Father inlaw has mentioned taking 10 a day from hubby so he can not work anymore.Even he has so much assets in Pakistan already.I only see my way out of this mess to financially separate from hubby to be honest.I don’t want to do it but I know I will never have peace unless I do.

  • Gail

    May 10, 2013

    Ruqayya,
    Welcome to polygamy411 I am Gail.I read your post and I wanted to add something.You know this is disheartening for you but you also know u are going to stay and deal or at least try it when it happens.I am pretty positive from what u wrote it is going to happen so u will need to prepare yourself.He is already talking with other woman and if he is doing that and other woman are buzzing around him then yeah I can see it totally happening.I will give u some advices here.First you need to tell him he has to be open and honest with u every step of the way.NO LIES rule and stick to it.He may very well test u but u will need to stand your ground.I suck in this department as my husband walks all over me.He lies I get angry but I do nothing about it so in a way I am rewarding his negative behavior.Don’t u make the same mistake I am doing.The second thing make certain any woman he chooses to marry u meet her first and u make certain certain she knows it is going to be a polygamous marriage.If he tries to hide it from her u go tell her.Do every single thing in honesty thats my advice to you as you travel down this road to Polygamy.

  • Gail

    May 10, 2013

    Felicia,
    You are so correct with the inlaws are more a handful than even the Pakistani cowives!!!
    I don’t know I am getting so mentally tired of everything.Hubby is just draining me mentally.Logically I know if I don’t go on my own financially I am screwed.i wish I could trust him but he destroyed that trust and now there is no way to get back to where we use to be.My entire life feels like one huge lie and disappointment with him.I asked him just yesterday if he was going to continue to purchase the property and build the house in Pak and he said yes.I knew in my heart I have to get back to work and become financially independent from him.He could promise me the moon but it means nothing to me because of the lack of trust I have for him.I know it is 50/50 chance he could be telling the truth but I am not willing to take a gamble with my financial welfare and my childrens on a 50/50 gamble.
    I have asked him to purchase me a van and he still has not done it but I will be getting one it is my goal and fix my personal financial problems.
    I would divorce him but gosh I don’t have a desire or any trust towards men to be honest.From what I see men are all about Money and Sex and that seems to be about it so whats the point.
    Oh the reason I was reading the nieces immigration papers is because my brother inlaw asked my husband to read them and explain what they meant.Boy did I fly off the handle and start a huge fight over that one.I already feel used and abused by hubby and his family over him marrying me for a greencard and citizenship(even though he said he didn’t to save his A$$ I am certain).When he ask me to do anything for his family regarding immigration it is like rubbing salt in my wounds and that just makes me insane.I feel like I am being lead around by hubby with a chain through my nose and I so so so sick to death of it.

  • Felicia

    May 10, 2013

    @ Gail,
    When I read your comments about living in Pakistan, I was amazed at your strength in dealing with the culture and environment. It is complicated living with in-laws, lovely idea to take care of elderly parents but practically nearly impossible, even more so when adding brother and sisters and cousin husbands and wives, etc to the mix
    Those in-laws are watching every dollar you earn and decide how they going to take it away from you. I think hubby is between a rock and a hard place resulting in the silent treatment you getting.He knows his clearing out money he promised to you and can’t say no to his parents, then he tries to make you feel guilty??
    I’m with Jenny that you are most probably financing the entire home. You need to tell hubby he should finance it from income from the businesses in Pakistan.
    Just explain to me why are you reading immigration papers for his niece?
    Also what guarantee has he given you that the land and businesses will eventually go to your kids? At the way things are turning out about the house you should ask about what your kids will inherit.
    I can only think what you are experiencing with in-laws in your space. My mum lived with her in-laws for a few years it was finally my dad’s decision to move out. When the family get together we hear all the stories, frightening, as it was the norm to live with in-laws.
    I am glad you are asking hubby to buy assets in your name.
    Also research law in Pakistan so that if and when you get there you know what paperwork to complete when you buy assets and inheritance laws.
    I have never bothered as I never intended living in Pakistan, I have a sister-in-law who is not financially well off and had discussed with hubby that she should be able to live in the house rent free once mil is no longer with us. Obviously he agreed at the time but who knows what’s brewing in the current situation.
    It’s nice to see you have thought through your business ideas for when in you in Pakistan. It’ll keep you away from hearing about ex-co and her family.
    Somehow dealing with Paki in-laws take priority to dealing with Paki co-wives!!!!!

  • Felicia

    May 10, 2013

    As salaamu Alaikum Ruqayya,

    Your husband is sharing his intentions with you, it is most difficult for a wife especially of so few months to hear this. Lots of pain and anguish. It sounds like he wants you to be part of the process. Keep the talks light, less he decides that you can’t deal with it and shuts you out in future. If and when Allah SWT wills you will have a Co and at that time it will be important that you be part of discussions regarding schedules
    Keep studying until you are qualified irrespective of the hurdles you face.
    You have come to the right place. These sisters have helped me through many difficult days and I see them helping you as well.

  • J

    May 10, 2013

    Asalamu Alaykum everyone!! Jummah Mubarak, hope everyone has a great weekend too!

    Alhamdulillah Kim and Ana definitely summed up everything I wanted to write to Ruqayya. I guess the only extra thing I can add is for you to make sure and encourage your husband does everything Islamicly and is giving you your proper rights before he takes any steps towards this. And just enjoy your marriage and build a strong bond thats unbreakable like was said inshaAllah.

    Ugh in my case I had a dream about my Co, I dont even know if shes a co anymore he has been super quite about this all and yesterday even made a comment that am his only…hhmmm. anyways back to the dream. Yeah this chick was bawling her eyes out crying, talking about she just wanted to be my friend and how she loves my mother in law..The one night I sleep well cause of menses I dream about her?? ppsshh and it was so real, am debating on whether I should reach out to her and say Salams and see how she is doing..but ill rub it by the hub first maybe. we will see.

  • Sarata

    May 10, 2013

    @Ana
    Thanks for your prompt response – I wasn’t intending to advertise on their behalf – just to help the sister here.
    To be honest only one of them is still active, the others posts are a few years old (but still
    Beneficial)

    I understand if there is some business aspect of blogging (I don’t know enough about this) that you wouldn’t want other blogs advertised. It’s just a shame as such positive blogs inbthis topic are difficult to find unfortunately! sad

    I’ll make dua that sister Ruqayya finds them as I found then extrememly helpful Mashallah.

  • ana

    May 10, 2013

    @Sarata. Wa Alsikum As Salaam,

    Polygamy 411′s policy is we don’ t allow anyone to advertise here for other blogs or websites. We don’t allows links either, except some for media or information, pending approval. Regarding blogs mentioned as our “blog friends” on Polygamy 411′s home page, they earned the position by commenting here on this blog for a time or by having a link to this blog on their sites. To establish a successful blog, it takes a lot of hard work and time, by the grace of Allah. There is proper ettiquet blogs should follow to get recognition on other people’s bogs. The blogs owners you know should do some research on the topic, Insha Allah. It is nice you are concerned about them. I hope you understand our position.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Sarata

    May 10, 2013

    @Ruqayya
    Asalaamu Alaikum Wa Ramatullahi Wa Barakatu
    Welcome to this blog – there are many supportive sisters on here Mashallah!
    I’m somewhere between most of the sisters on here and yourself – in that I’m trying to prepare for my hubs taking a 2nd wife any day now.

    I was searching for Polygyny blogs and found quite a few.
    @Ana would you mind me sharing a couple of the other blogs I found on a post here
    (I don’t know if that’s bad blog-etiquette or not?!)

    The reason being is that there are a couple written by sisters who seem to have reached the point I believe we would all wish to aim for In’sha Allāh.
    They are living a relatively happy and peaceful polygynous life with their husbands and co wives, and they write some really encouraging and inspirational things that I think would benefit everyone this situation.
    @Ana would it be ok with you if I list them here?
    I’m sure like me the sisters would still continue to be part of this blog as we all from your kind words and Islamic reminders Mashallah may – Allah reward you xxx

  • Felicia

    May 10, 2013

    sorry ladies, I typed the comment and forgot to send it off.

  • Felicia

    May 10, 2013

    As-salaamu Alaikum and Hi to All,

    @ Ana, I thought it was only my in-laws going all crazy on me but was surprised when I heard of Gail’s experience in Pakistan. The way I see it they send the sons’ overseas to earn, while they sit at home and spend the money. They don’t have anything to so “idle hands are the devil’s workshop”.
    @ Jenny hope you having a wonderful time in Europe

    @J
    my daughter is 10yrs. She understands quite a bit of what’s happening at home. I was the one with the golden handcuffs 8-5 job. Hubby is a workalohic so he doesn’t have a routine, generally gets to see us on a Sunday morning for breakfast. She was quite angry at him after he became polygamous and started speaking to him in angry tones. It’s been hardwork to calm her down and clear all her fears and get her on speaking terms with him. Now she demands her time with him. His got to be home before sunset/maghrib salaah eat with her. She always keep a bit of homework for him to help her with, then he has to watch television with her, play then put her to bed. He has to be at home on Sunday. School vacations she demands a few days of his time. She is really good in letting him know that these are what father’s do for their children. It has been really difficult for him to change his hours. So she gave him a little lesson in her “play classroom” about how he is a boss and he should manage his staff so that he can spend more time with her. Seems the lesson paid off.

    @Gail,
    Going to chat with you later. I must say you one brave woman to be prepared to live in pakistan

  • ana

    May 10, 2013

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Peace to All,

    @Kim & J, Alhumdulliah for the warm welcome you both gave Raqayya happy

    @Raqayya, welcome. I am happy you have joined us here and, Insha Allah, you will stay with us.

    There is not much I can add to what Kim and J said to you and what you already know. As you know, what you and he have been discussing (whether he’ll marry someone else or not and when) is pure speculation. Although it’s his desire to marry another, Allah knows best whether He has decreed that your husband will ever be polygamous. There are some men who want to be polygamous and it never happens. There are some who never thought it would be a part of their lives and they didn’t desire it, but one day they wanted it or maybe not really, but it happened. Who knows whether either of you will be alive tomorrow, let alone ten or fifteen years from now. We know, however, it’s a terrible feeling to everyday have to think about what may happen tomorrow. You cannot enjoy today, be at peace in the current day or with yourself, as you’re always in the future.

    So, how do you stop obsessing about your husband possibly becoming polygamous? As long as you think and believe your husband has control, ANY TYPE of control over what happens in his life, and has a say in what will happen in the future with him and his desires, you will probably continue to obsess. If you believe Allah controls everything in the heavens and the earth and all between and He determines our mates, you could learn not to obsess.

    To learn not to obsess is to submit yourself to Allah’s Will totally and completely. It takes knowing what Allah expects of us and doing it. You have to seek knowledge from Allah and put what you learn into practice. It’s a battle with ourselves and we have to commit ourselves to do it.

    Therefore, we have to determine if we’re going to obsess over our husbands – what they may or may not do – and try to dictate what they do or don’t do, or we get busy doing what Allah swt instructs us to do. We, as Muslims/Believers are supposed to submit our will to Allah swt. When we submit our will to Allah, we no longer have a will. You see; everyone actually submit their will to Allah – some submit willing and some submit unwillingly – Allah controls the heavens and the earth and all between, which means, yes, He controls us. Allah swt tells us in the Holy Quran – you will come willingly or unwillingly, but you will come. He decides. He decrees things. He says be and when He says be – it is.

    When we stop deluding ourselves and know the reality, we become free. We will have a peaceful and tranquil soul. Allah u Akbar!

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ruqayya

    May 9, 2013

    @ Kim.
    Alhamdulilah my husband is a very strict Muslim, he tries his hardest to stay away from haram and encourages me in many ways to be a better Muslim.
    I have laid down many rules which he must follow in order for me to accept him and not walk away from the marriage should he take another, eg. He must take me to hajj first as it is obligatory and if he has the money for a second he damn well has the money for hajj. We must have separate houses but close by so he can see each of us every day, there’s no point following the sunnah of getting in polygyny yet leaving the wives alone every other day (the Prophet pbuh saw each and every wife every single day and met her needs EVERY SINGLE DAY unless he was travelling). Also I have agreed to help him financially for now but if he takes a second wife I will not be contributing a cent unless he is in need of charity etc. I want kids before hand and he knows I want a lot of children (he does not want more than 10 so I really don’t see how he will handle a polygamous family as I want close to 10 children). I will not go overseas with him if he has a second and he ultimately wants to work for a few years overseas. I just wish there was a sure fire way to know if when where and how. I know these problems are for another day and I am getting better at not obsession, but sometimes it’s really really hard.
    Considering we are both students he cannot even afford me so there’s no way just yet, inshaAllah. The reason he spoke about it recently was because I pushed it :/ He is a good muslim mashaAllah but he does slip up and I found a few messages from a sister asking to marry him, 1. he did not mention he was married, 2. he seemed to be encouraging her (not exactly flirting but to a girl it would definitely be a go ahead to continue pursuing him). This was at the time he was saying “I’m not planning to get a second wife but if Allah ta ala changes my desire I will”. I also found messages from his (very pretty) ex-fiance of such… although he did not respond to her and did delete her upon my request.
    I do fear I will become very demanding upon him if he takes another, now a days I’m pretty relaxed, no money? Doesn’t matter we will struggle through. If he wants to see his friends till after midnight, no worries so do I some times. If he doesn’t want sex, doesn’t matter most of the time. Yet if he takes another I will want my rights in full, sex on demand, no seeing friends etc. I’m not to fussed about money because I believe Allah is the provider and I will not get more or less no matter how many wives he has. Does anyone else feel that way in demanding what’s due to them when their husbands take on a second?
    So anyways I asked him about if his ideas have changed and he said yes, he thought getting married would help him stop thinking of women but he still wants others, so he is planning on one day getting a second should a good opportunity arise. Alhamdulilah he wishes to help a divorcee which I like the idea of on a logical level, but hate at an emotional level. Although I am hoping it’s a bored man talking, he has been a househusband while looking for work so I’m hoping he is just thinking of options at the moment.
    I am trying to enjoy my life the way it is, so I have made a promise with him that we will not speak of polygyny until a girl has been found and he is about to meet her etc. Although sometimes we slip up but we quickly shut one another down, there is no point fighting over it now… It has helped but in saying that I still wake up some mornings feeling as though there’s an elephant on my chest, the shaytaan really gets to me and I need to spend all day fighting him just to be happy. I don’t understand why because there is no possibility of it right now.
    Ahh sorry for the rant, I’ve been keeping it inside for so long it feels soo good to just be able to let it all out knowing I wont be judged here happy

  • Jenny

    May 9, 2013

    @ Gail,

    Just a simple question with his doing this house thing you are not happy with…. Have you ever told him no? No, you are not coughing up $20k, no you are not doing this house, etc? Judging by what you say, you will be financing everyone’s part of the house.

    I think a lot of your problems stem with the family. After hearing you and Fatima’s stories, I am so gla I don’t have to deal with any of them. They aren’t to fond of me anyway. My focus is on my husband, children and home (of course, Hashem) and business. My plate is already full.

  • J

    May 9, 2013

    Asalamu Alaykum Ruqayya Welcome to this blog. There are so many wonderful people here to talk to and to help you!! InshaAllah make lots of Du’aa, Allah is the best disposers of affairs happy May he grant you much patience to deal with this. Am not able to write a full responce now I will be back later. Welcome!!

  • Kim

    May 9, 2013

    Asalaam Aleikum and welcome, Ruqayya.

    Oh I love when men’s reason for polygamy goes straight to “It’s halal”. My husband and II went ROUNDS about that. He couldn’t care less about keeping to the five prayers, fasting during Ramadan, Hajj, doesn’t have money in the US for zakat. Four out of five of the things OBLIGATORY to every Muslim, he doesn’t do; and he does plenty of haram things to boot. Yet, “my religion says I can have another wife” OH YES he’s all over that one which is an OPTION. The hypocrisy astounds me.

    But whatever. Insha Allah your hubby is a bit more of an observant Muslim, before popping up with the “halal-ness” of polygamy.

    It’s tough…very tough. I won’t sugarcoat it, it’s the hardest thing by far I’ve been challenged with in all my 40some years. After almost 2 years with “M” being on and off again with “N” it’s been an insane rollercoaster of issues, challenges, tears, and heartbreak. But there ARE benefits, which tend to be overshadowed. Insha Allah here you will read some of the good aspects as well as the challenges. I hope you stick around….I have a sneaking hunch that if your hubby is talking polygamy now, he won’t wait 10 or more years to do it. If he’s anything like my husband, anyway….dude ran headlong into a relationship with my ex-co just a week ago and they’re out of control already. I just shake my head and say Allahu Alim and do my best to tend to my own life and let them live theirs.

    In your case, well, if Allah put the desire into your husband, there’s not a whole lot you can do, but try to accept it. Try to calm down (she isn’t a reality yet…save your energy for when she is! LOL) and enjoy your marriage as it is now. If you’re anything like me, once you’re polygamous you’ll want to look fondly back on the “salad days” of your monogamous marriage. You’re newly married; enjoy this time and build your relationship into a rock-solid bond that’s unbreakable, whether #2 comes along or not.

    Again, welcome dear!

  • Jenny

    May 9, 2013

    @ Gail,

    News flash… If you are a bitch they will all back down. That’s me…I’m the tough one around here.

  • Jenny

    May 9, 2013

    @ Gail,

    I don’t think our husband’s are the same. First of all, my husband would not be giving anyone money; especially, to that tune! That’s a big chunk of change! I’m the one who sends money to his oldest son and trust me, $250 a month is what they get. Anything I send either in packages or money is purely as a gift from me. He already bought and paid for the house long before he met me.

    Nor would hubby be buying or living with any of his family. No joint houses. What you and Fatima go through with the spongers, no way works with us. I sent his kids the new iPads because I sent them to my older kids. Same with the new phones. Outside of the kids, no one gets nothing. It’s not just because of me, he was this way before he ever met me.

    If hubby ever told me he was giving that much of the money, I would wring his neck, but I know hubby, he wouldn’t do it anyway. The most we’ve ever sent extra was $500 for when his mother was in the hospital, and $250 of that was the usual money.

    Group living is not for us. No way, no how would we EVER live with anyone else. Hubby would never think of bringing his mother here either. I listen to what you and Fatima put up with and I whisper a prayer of thanks!

    I’ve never been dependent on my husband for money. I’m the one who handles all the money, pays the bills. Long as he has a gas credit card, he’s good. He keeps about $50 in his pocket with his gas card. Other than that, he never touches the money. Never has, never will. I make all the decisions, which is the way he wants it. I pick out the house I want, I invest every penny the way I want, etc… He says he doesn’t know about those things and it is my job, which is fine with me. I will never be dependent on anyone. I’ve said it before, my husband is a very simple man and it is a beautiful thing!

    He has beyond earned my loyalty and trust.

  • Ruqayya

    May 9, 2013

    So I’m not in a polygamous marriage at the moment, but (being a muslim) my husband has expressed a desire to have a second wife. I’m beyond pissed off and feel I have no where to turn. (I have been lurking this site for a while now)
    Before marriage my husband would say things like he never wants to be away from me even a day etc etc, that he wouldn’t get a second wife because he understands how much it hurts for the first wife. Now he brings up other women all the time even though we cannot even support ourselves and by Allah it hurts my heart to have him even thinking of other women when we haven’t even been married a year. I asked him how he would feel if I was always talking about other men, or how he would feel if I left him alone every second night by himself, didn’t want to see the kids every day etc. He told me what he want’s is halal and refuses to even consider that it might be too much for me to handle because how can I be against something Allah has ordained?
    We have agreed upon at least 10 years before he can remarry, although possibly more 15-20 depending on finances and our own state in marriage etc.. but even though it is possibly years away I feel like I’m screaming inside my own head, I can’t turn to my husband as he says I make him want it even more the more I talk about it… and I can’t turn to my friends as they just say I love him too much and just to accept him as it is… but how can I do that when he just a few months ago said polygyny would be the exception if I was agreeing as well, then a week or two ago said given the finances and a ‘perfect’ girl he would do it regardless of if I wanted it or not?
    He keeps telling me he would find a girl who would only want a few days of the week, not her entire share (many divorcees over here say they only want 2 or so days, or a few days a month etc) but once they fall in love I can bet anything they will be begging him for their days and he is the kind of man to do practically anything for those he loves within the boundaries of it being halal.
    He is an amazing husband mashaAllah so I never want to be apart from him, but I also don’t wish to be a wife with a number, I don’t want to have my husband leave me every second day and have to deal with kids etc alone. I got married to have a helper and a friend I could come home to everyday.. but now I’m thinking I was wrong and maybe husbands are just there for s*x and money.

  • Gail

    May 9, 2013

    Jenny,
    Also I should mention my husband is the most generous man.I never say it on the blog but he is really awesome and amazing to me.If i want something all I need to do is ask and he will move heaven and hell to get it for me.That the whole deal with this home in DHA.IT is the very Best in Pakistan and he is doing it all just for me.The problem is I am not grateful because I wanted on the other side of the tracks in a more common area.I am not a million dollar person.I am very simple and like nice things but not over the top.Like I said I live in a 2 bedroom old mobile home and it was my choice to purchase the mobile and the land.He did it no questions asked even he has a huge huge family home in Pakistan and our rental homes are better in Pakistan than what we have here in USA if u can imagine.Also his family is really well off financially.Not your average run of the mill family.He has high political and military figures as well as heart specialist in the family and at the lower end were talking computer programmers.Even my own husband is in the process of making a manufacturing plant in Pakistan in the next 2 years.
    Even logically I understand if I just be silent and let him do everything I am better off but being American and knowing he hid his first marriage from me and kept his friendship or whatever it was with this woman in our community secret for 7 years.He swears up and down she was just a friend but from what I read I will never believe him as I believe he is a liar. I just can’t for the life of me wrap my brain around the thought to be silent and trust on him.This is my inner struggle that I am trying to deal and it really is mentally and emotionally hard on me.I just wanted to clarify that

  • Gail

    May 9, 2013

    Jenny,
    Believe me when I tell you my husband is the exact same as yours.Everything u stated my husband has told me the same.He told me that he never told exwife he loved her and to make matters worse he actually was talking to his first wife in english one day and said straight on the womans face to tell me how many times he told her he loved her and she said never.I was mortified he would do that to her.He always tell me I am the only woman he has ever loved.Actually my first love had told me when we were children and again now in our 40s that we are 2 bodies one soul and boy oh boy when I told hubby that he got mentally disturbed on that thing.That how can another man claim to share the same soul with me etc…He seen Reddddd.It didn’t help matters that I had felt the same way about my first love I hung on to his words of affection for me all my life and never let them go.
    The problem I am seeing is the inlaws to be honest.He is changing I see it but he is so much about his family that it is hard for me to deal it because we give them so much money.Just in the last month he has given them 21,000 dollars for land that they have not even purchased yet.The truth is I feel my children and I are suffering.I told him to get me a van this week no matter what because I am going to hit the road myself and start stashing money in the bank on my own name he said he is giving his mom another 5,000 Monday to pay his share of the property.The property that they have not even purchased yet nor do they have enough money yet as they are 10,000 shy from their part.Now what really angers me is that we have to pay half of the property but we only own a third of it.Which is a big p!$$ off to me.One year he gave his brother 10,000 and he swore they would pay back they never did.I know I should not be money greedy but I am not getting any younger and it disturbs me because my kids and I are living in a 2 bedroom run down mobile home and counting every penny while he is giving so much to his parents.Yes it is also true I have thousands of dollars in my purse but I feel mentally like I shouldn’t spend a dime of it and hubby just sees it there and gives his mother and says don’t worry I will give u more and yes he always gives me more but same cycle I save for a home and he takes it.He says my desires are not as good as he is making.Again I agree with him he has really great taste(well his mother does)but I am really hurt because he cares more for his family and listening to them than to me his wife when we had Baria Town picked out to purchase there.
    I just want to be financially dependent from him so I will never find myself in a jam in the future.I won’t go back to Pakistan unless I have money in the bank to fly myself and the kids back.
    I want to open a small clinic in Pakistan and do small laser surgeries and acid peels,some other small procedures.I enjoy skin care treatment so that is my goal.
    My mother inlaw got her lab results back and her AST and ALT are really high.I am worried about her and her health.I don’t hate my inlaws there is just not any set boundaries and it is killing me.I am either going to end up being like every other Pakistani female and get eat alive or I am going to have to be a B!tch and start taking hard actions against my own husband.I don’t really see a middle ground.It is really mentally disturbing all this I never thought in a million years I would be in my 40s and have my husband want me dependent on him for every single penny.It is a real kick in the arse!!With my first husband I was so independent even I wanted to stay home and he said nooo keep working.lol now I want to work and hubby says no stay home and care the home.Don’t get me wrong I love being with my kids but since hubby is compelled to take the money I feel like I must work to make a financial egg for the children and I.
    But yeah honestly are husbands are exactly the same with exception that my hubby does this insane silent treatment act with me.Also he told me that he is noticing as he is getting older his anger is getting worse and he don’t think he will be able to stop it.This to me is also another reason why I want one home on my name so I and the children can leave anytime he acts up and not be around him in the future until he gets over his anger.
    The rational part of me says screw it and just divorce him but 1 I don’t want divorce and 2 financially it really wouldn’t help me because in Pakistan he has millions and properties and businesses.Well everything and all of it will go to my children and I.So financially it would hurt.
    Basically I am White woman trying to live in a Pakistani World and it is really really hard.

  • Gail

    May 9, 2013

    Hilly,
    Thats Awesome we share the same anniversary month.lol Hilly Honestly I am doing so much better and the reason being is because I sat down and thought about it I truly do not want a divorce but I do desire greatly independence in the form of a home on my name and a car and the 50% of the business we are building in Pakistan. My husband has swore to me he would never divorce me all his life and thats nice but I desire security so he has promised to fulfill my desire and purchase one home on my name only.We have several but I feel secure to have one on my name just in case he has a change of heart.I really think finances is the way to go.
    Hilly you and hubby have been together so long when did he take a second wife?Also how long has he been traveling?I am wondering if this has not been going on so long and u are just still trying to adjust.I have no idea thats why I ask.

  • Jenny

    May 9, 2013

    @ Ana,

    Actually, I wanted to chime in quite a few times. happy We have just been so slammed at the office. A new account has dumped so much work on us. Hubby is running the dispatch {Just hearing the phones ringing gives me chest pains! Have to remind myself that every ring is $$$} and how he can talk on three phones is an amazing feat! I have the extra work in billing and payroll, on top of all that I already do for all of the businesses.

    We leave Saturday afternoon. I have to take a big fat briefcase with files and my laptop and iPad along with me. When on vacation I still have a full plate of work for me to do. There is NEVER a break, the joy of owning your own business! I never complain about it because I know a lot of companies in my line of work without business. They often come to my husband looking for work.

    I haven’t had a second to even start packing yet. Yesterday, I did have time to buy a new pair of sandals. happy We’ve had to pencil in time to sleep lately ~ we’ve been that busy!

    @ Gail,

    Sorry to hear about all the problems you have been having. I always talk about how Pakistani men are different, but I can’t wrap my head around some of the problems some of the women here are having with their husbands!

    My little circle I mentioned there are a few Jewish women married to Pakistani men and their husbands’ act just like mine. The women never complain about their husbands treating them with the silent treatment, the mommy issues, etc… The husband’s are generous. All of the women have breath taking homes, lots of jewelry, and trips to Europe at least every year. All of my friends are happy. I do see how the Pakistani men who are married to Pakistani women get treated ~ NOT good at all. Maybe it is the wives fault to some degree. Jewish women are very bossy and controlling and would not stand for some of the crap we hear that is dished out. We have expectations of our husbands, at least I have with mine. It is not all one way, because he has expectations of me too. {Mainly, clean drawers.}

    Hubby told me something profound after we married and I didn’t know how earth shaking it was until years later. He told me I was the most important person and woman in his life; more so then his mother. He also told me that he never in his life told another person he loved them before me. I believe that too. Hubby has changed a lot since we’ve started our family. He is the doting daddy, dispatching calls with babies on his lap! happy I figure he’s been standoffish his entire life because of the way he was raised. I’m glad I broke him of that. happy He has always been very loving, touchy type with me.

    Gail, I wish I knew what to suggest… I would suggest you be more independent. My husband knows well that I don’t need him for anything, but I want him for everything. He knows there is a difference with this marriage. I am not a Pakistani cousin, I am not bound to stay and tolerate being mistreated. He knows I chose to stay because I love him. There is a difference: obligation vs. choice. He understands that now. Maybe your husband is confusing obligation with choice, since this is not his culture.

  • J

    May 9, 2013

    Kim

    I could just hug you, am trying very hard to detach as well. I’ve losing weight also!! woohooo for us happy We just have to shine, like my MILs friend says Man is not a a plan lol. PPpssh and I definitely do not plan on competing with my co. they can suck it lol. Even tho am younger and could a totally @$$ about it. I will just do my best on focusing on my self, I started some Islamic studies I never finished before, dropping some of that extra pregnancy weight, inshaAllah I will look hotter than the day he first met me lol. and you know what? all of that will be for me! booyaka lol. just trying to be positive right now. Had a crappy morning as well.

    ooo omg you know what you should buy? I think its called a waist trimmer belt. Its like a rubber belt that you wear around the tummy to help you sweat off the pounds like when your walking for example. It helps so much especialy if your not feeling well and cant excersice at least your day is not going to waist. and its super cheap I got mine for like 12 bucks.

  • Hilly

    May 9, 2013

    @Gail my anniversary is next month also. Even though I no longer have the legal marriage license, but I do have the islamic marriage. I never remember that date. So it will be 21 years inshallah next month. It seems longer than that. Wondering if I will make it for another decade. Starting to have my doubts.

  • J

    May 9, 2013

    Gail

    Thank you, I hope your situations get easier with your hubby and his family. Wow 10 years of marriage thats wonderful, I hope you guys get past everything and have many more happy years. My oldest will be four and it feels like she has been here forever too, its like what did I ever do without them. In my situation am just trying to focus on my kids and having them to grow up to be strong people in the community and be emotionally affected by this. I started freaking out again a bit, and he said so your trying to make me a bad guy cause I can be a bad guy. And the more I saw something about it I just look bad religioulsy.. I was like wth…I mean I gotta get this out my system somehow to deal with it all. Anyways I told him today he needs to move her to Alaska and go live there lol. They are still in the stages of getting know one another just ew! cause they only met like twice before getting married. And am just like thinking hes a great guy and is very respected like shes gonna be stupid enough to let him go. which makes me even more mad, because I was there from day one building our lives together.

    The kids are my life too, I know a sister that divorced her husband cause of whatever reasons and the kids lived with her, she never took him to court or anything and he saw the kids on the weekends. One weekend he took the kids and flew them to morraco and told her shes never seeing them again. Oh boy my heart hurt when I heard this, but after a long legal battle of like almost 2 years she got her girls back.

  • Sarata

    May 9, 2013

    @Kim
    You do sound sensible – its strange how you seem to have such an extreme reaction to her on person. She might just have a really overpowering personality perhaps.
    At least you realise it’s nothing she’s doing intentionally which is a good start I guess?
    I hope you can get to the bottom of it In’sha Allāh.

    There seem to be many co wives from the US on this blog – probably why it’s quiet during my day but active at night for me. I check the blog in the morning to see posts a plenty lol!

    @Ana – I’m still a bit confused as to what prediction you refer to – but I’m Guessing it’s my hopes of passing tests and reaching Jannah In’sha Allāh.
    In’sha Allāh we all will xx

  • Kim

    May 9, 2013

    Asalaam Aleikum Ana!

    When you do go back and catch up, just ignore my ramblings the last couple of days LOL….I’m in pure “grrrr” mode right now (PMS) and the “old” Kim is coming out to play. Ugh. M is beyond irritated with me too. I told him the same thing – ignore it and it will go away LOL…

    I woke up yet again today in a blue funk, til I hopped on the dreaded scale. I’m down over 10 pounds since I started!!!!! That lifted my spirits considerably. I knew it would fall off fast during “detox” if I am disciplined enough to stick to it, and sticking to it has been surprisingly easy, with even more surprising results…I didn’t think I’d lose that much. I know much of this initial loss is water, as I tend to retain water, but heck, I’m still PMS’ing…once the dreaded thing starts and is over, I expect another “woosh” to appear on the scale. I can also see the change in my waistline – very encouraging! Alhamdulillah!

    I used to despise exercise; now I look forward to my walks, especially the morning one. It clears the mental fog and puts me on the right track for my day. I don’t need as much coffee to get me going. And my beverage of choice now is just plain water. I NEVER used to drink just water.

    I’m doing my level best to regain my positivity and detach…I have found myself wrapping myself around M again the last couple of days and that’s the worst thing I could be doing. It’s all reactive, it’s all insecurity that needn’t be there. It’s why I went crazy when he got with N before. I need to do me now and let him do what he will. I’m not competing with N and don’t want to compete with N. Old habits die hard I guess tongue

  • Gail

    May 9, 2013

    Hilly,
    Thank You yes the my 10 yr wedding anniversary is next month.Sometimes it feels like we have been together forever and other times it feels like time has flown.How long have u been married Hilly?
    It’s funny are youngest is 8yrs old and it feels like I have had that kid with me forever instead of only 8 yrs.

  • ana

    May 8, 2013

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Peace to All, happy

    I’ve got a lot of catching up here to do, Insha Allah. at wits end

    @Kim,

    My workout mostly consist of working out to DVDs at home. I do Fat Burning Fusion, pilates and yoga. I just recently added ballet conditioning. Alex and I walk occasionally, not as much as we need to. We do a lot of working out on vacations, a lot of walking, going to the fitness center and yoga classes when they are available. I find walking and running gets me fast results. I’m a bit skeptical about walking now, as my allergies/sinuses have been messing with me. I really need to get serious though and cut out the Gelatos, scones, chocolate mint fudge cookies & organic potatoe chips – I practically live in “Whole Foods”. I need to leave those thing behind when I go there laughing Insha Allah, I’ll do it. I imagine I’ll loose some weight this Ramadan with break- fast coming in so late. I find the dates and cashews that I eat at break-fast are very fattening. Oh, well. So, but as you said, it’s a life change that we need to make to get the weight off and keep it there. Once I get closer to my goal, I think I will hire a personal trainer for the finishing touches. After my vacation is over, Insha Allah, I may do one of your numbers and get on the scale sad

    @Felicia,

    I was freaked out when you told us they lied about his mom being way sick. surprise It reminded me of what Jenny husband’s kids did – lied and said his mother died – in an effort to get him to come home to Pakistan. Jenny must be in Europe and didn’t read what you wrote. I know she would have chimed in on that one. Some of the stuff I hear that goes on regularly in Pakistan, as though it’s the norm, is shameful. Could a whole nation of people be so screwed up i dont know

    @Sarata,

    I think I have a good idea what you mean by the prediction. What I think you mean, I can’t spell it out on the blog as it wouldn’t be good to go there. I’ll be patient and we shall see. happy

    Everyone, have a good night or day, which ever it is in your part of the world. I’ll be back as soon as I can, Insha Allah. PEACE!

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Gail

    May 8, 2013

    J,
    I am going through a rough patch myself.Just keep hanging in there hopefully things will get easier in time.I don’t have friends either and am a loner.My children are my life and yeah It is hard my cowife was a social butterfly unlike me.Well I was until I found out the truth him and his entire family hid cowife and his marriage from me so yeah now I feel like I wouldn’t Pi$$ on them if they were on fire attitude.Horrible attitude I know and I am praying I work through it but time is running out and hubby is sick to death of me being stuck on the same spot.He thinks I am stuck on the same spot and I am when it comes to him but I am not stuck like I was because I want to work and make my own money now so I am really doing alot better.I wish I could shut my feelings off and not feel negative towards his family but it feels impossible to me at this time.

  • Gail

    May 8, 2013

    Kim,
    I am feeling you 100%.i am going through the same thing basically except mine is with hubby and his parents.I swear the boy has some unnatural affection for his parents like he is glued to them.He says he is not but he most certainly is.I am not against parents but dang 24/7 is killing me.I sick to death of my life not being my own.We came back at looking at homes today and hubbys dad first thing out of his mouth is where did u go?I wanted to say we went to look for a home old man whats it to you.Oh I just really want to rip my hair out.Oh to top it off MIL got her lab results back her ALT and AST are not good at all and the nurse wanted to know if she was a drinker.I was like Good LORD the woman has never tasted alcohol in her life!!So I am now left wondering if they think she has a fatty liver they want to check her in 3 months.
    On the flip side hubby is just a walking depressed person.Everything I do is so wrong my thoughts are wrong my actions are wrong my wants and needs are all wrong.I am just a thorn in his A$$ everything about me is wrong.
    I honestly would be fine and dandy if we stuck to are original plan and just built a home in baria town just hubby and I and the children.That way we have a nice relaxed life.When I think about having to live with the inlaws it is like someone has tassered me!!The strange thing is Hubby and I really do love each other but dang everything else is getting in the way and I am to the point it is just easier to say u know what hubby doesn’t love me enough and just deal my life.

  • Gail

    May 8, 2013

    Felicia,
    You won’t believe this but I lowered the boom on my hubby a few days back.He has been dragging his feel on building me a home for years.Everytime I say this is the year to build our dream home something on the business side would come up.Well this year nothing came up and I said ok we are building.He had divorced his exwife who didn’t want to live joint family and I don’t know what happen to me but hubby told me he was never leaving his parents and with them getting older I thought oh what the heck then lets live joint family and just build one big huge home.I had all ideas what exactly how I wanted to build my home and design it.Well as soon as I opened my mouth hubby and the inlaws jumped on my idea but instead of this being my baby his mother and father just swooped in and took over the entire project.I was so beyond angry.Where I wanted to build they said NO that is not good area.I looked at hubby and said we agreed we wanted Baria Town for us?He who Hawed around and said DHA is better and safer and nicer and sisters are there.OH yeah that is the only truthful thing u said your sisters are there.I was so freaking angry with him.Then I tried to calm down but as soon as I would calm down I found out the property was twice as much as I wanted to pay so gain I looked at hubby and he gave me the same song and dance better,nicer,safer it’s not free it cost etc…I was bubbling over with anger and nicely trying to explain to hubby this is just not my wish.Then the final straw was they were talking about the home and he turned to smiling like he was doing me a favor and said what level would u like and I said what?He said you want the ground floor,1st,2nd, I was in shock I said how this going to work he said 3 brothers 3 stories.I got silent and told him what about the one big home and dormitory style rooms for the kids?He said no no thats not good each brother get his own floor.I said then where is the joint family?Sounds more like flat living to me.I tried to be nice for a few days and explain to him this is not my wish and I don’t want any part of it.Finally the other day he had me read an immigration paper from his brother daughter and I just blew up all over the place it was more than my brain could handle after he had given me 5 days of silent treatment on top so I blew up at my father inlaw and told the man straight I am sick to death of everyone complaining all the time about hubby exwife and her family and my father inlaw and mother inlaw should understand that those people have reason to hate their guts as they screwed the very well and as far as the home he wants to build I don’t want any part of it.I told straight on my father inlaw face very well and my husband.My husband obviously went insane on me saying find my own way and he will fine his I told him he is an ass to my father inlaw.My father inlaw just turned his face to the other side of course but I told what I thought.My husband told me to find my own way and he will find his.Funny but I actually agree with hubby I will be finding my own way.I went to look at homes here in USA today and I am going to work and make my own separate money.My husband even smarted off on the way home that I had opened my big mouth so I can figure out myself.Thats good because I cam sick to death of being ruled over by hubby for no other reason that hubby wanting everything his way.
    I thought I would share with u whats going on with me.I feel so much better knowing I will not be dealing the inlaws.More than my MIL and FIL it is my brother and sister inlaws that I don’t want to be bothered with.I feel they have no sincerity towards my children nor I and vice versa.

  • Kim

    May 8, 2013

    Asalaam Aleikum all,

    Yes, J, it hasn’t been easy. It isn’t the easiest thing in the world, though in my case it is better than it was. But still, it’s tough. I just figure if he’s happy, then Alhamdulillah. Not that I’m throwing myself on the sword for their happiness, but in a way it feels like that.

    I don’t know….I helped facilitate their reunion, helped them both learn to communicate more constructively, so my work is done as far as I’m concerned.

    At work today all I was thinking about was this song by Lenny Kravitz, “Fly Away”. “I want to get away, I want to fly away”. I need a time-out from all of this. They’re plunging headlong into the love love love thing and ugh. I’m thinking about taking a road trip up to the northern part of the state (my hometown) and veg with a few old friends. Maybe look for a job and a house while I’m at it……

  • J

    May 8, 2013

    Felicia

    Thank you. Thats great that you are trying to controll your feelings in front of your daughter. How old is she? My kids are toddlers, and sometimes if they catch me sad or crying they ask me if am okay and they hug me, its too cute but I try to not let them see me like that. Its very difficult when am around them 24/7 though. Even though i am struggling with this. I do strive to raise my children upon the Sunnah, and inshaAllah when or if they will face this they will be 100% on board and excepting. I make Duaa that Allah purifies my heart all the time and makes me deal with this properly.

  • Felicia

    May 8, 2013

    As-salaamu-alaikum J,

    Some of my behaviour is based on what signals I send out to my daughter regarding polygamy and Islam. I do so want her to embrace Islam and not see my difficulty with dealing polygamy as an excuse to detach from an Islamic way of life. sometimes it is so difficult hiding emotions from children, their antennas are on high alert.
    It is best not to rush into decisions and actions if you are not comfortable.
    As I have had minimal exposure with dealing with a Co I can’t really advise much so I will be thinking of you in my duas

  • J

    May 8, 2013

    Jazakillah khair Aisha! omg lol they make it seem like its so simple to become friends when you share the same man. I dont know were my co is with her emotions now I do know that she thought she wasnt going to feel any jealousy but she is now, so I dont know where she stands on her omg i wanna be BFFs, cause am no were near it. I applied for a job and they got back to me. I couldnt believe it subhaanAllah everyone tries to work for this company lol. anyways they got back to me and want me to come and take a test next week. Am excited and at the same time so nervous, ive been so wrapped up in this bubble of mine am anxious, I did make Duaa that if this is good for me and my family then for Allah to give it to me. So inshaAllah we will see what happens. The last time I worked I was like what 15, I tutored kids at a dance school. InshaAllah we will see what happens I guess. I do wish Co the best, as ive said to her before but the thought of sharing and the though of now our family decisions have to me made around her too bugs me a lot. I feel territorial like this is my family, my mother in law, my husband, and definitly my kids. May Allah make it easy on Allah of us and guided us upon the straight path and to always make right decisions.

  • Aishah 2013

    May 8, 2013

    Salaam.J what you feel is so normal.some distance may be necessary to progress.don’t force yourself to do what makes you uncomfortable (like try to have a tight friendship)or feel bad cause its something difficult to do.Of course your hub wants you to be friends and is probably like “women!why all the crying” but only God can help you through.My hub said”you could get to just talk and become friends.like when I start talking to a Guy in the store about fishing and we become friends”.um,not the same thing!so I currently feel better not seeing or talking to my Co,although I did give it a good effort…maybe that’s not the same as everyone’s Co.mine has her own secret agenda and we don’t have anything but him in common.but after ceasing communication I realize its more comfortable not to see her or be around her definitely.so hang in therehappy

  • J

    May 8, 2013

    Asalamu Alaykum Everyone!!

    Thank you all for your support it means so much SubhaanAllah, I havent had the time to personally respond. Been busy and when I do have time Am not able to write back, but I have been reading up every thing on my phone but my stupid key board is so small I can even bother to write lol.

    Kim may Allah make it easy for you to be around her. personally I dont know how you do it dealing with them like that. Maybe you should distance yourself a bit, even though you say texting her and speaking doesnt bother you, but just to keep that distance to protect yourself. For me no matter how curious I get, I rather not know. Me and hub have been having really good times lately and I feel like we have grown even closer to each other, but the hurt is there, she still invades my head. I just got my period, I have horrible cramps the first 3 days, plus where I live its been raining so hard. You just cant help but swell up in tears. He just said to me why you gotta ruin something good we have going by crying.. I got so upset he said that It hurts so much dealing with it and at the same time struggling with this to fully accept this part of the deen and live by the sunnah by our beloved messenger salalhu alaihi wa salam. This is my only outlet to speak of my feeling with someone, if i did not stumble upon this blog I dont know how I would have been dealing with this.

    I hate when I hear how other people are so happy in these types of marriages, how at first the wives used to fight and now they are so happy and go shopping blah blah blah. I have been alone without close friends all my life, all my life I’ve been so nice and since 1st grade I remember people taking advantge of me. Am not interested in friends. I will only invest my all in my religion and my children. At least thats how I feel right now.

    In a way I miss my co writing me, and at the same time I want nothing to do with her. But I need the distance and the space. She has her friends and her family, and am still in the stages of feeling like am losing out big time. Even though I know i am not. Losing is those 5 people that just died in the limo fire, have you guys I heard? I think it was in CA. So sad. Can you say Qadr of Allah man.

  • Kim

    May 8, 2013

    Wa aleikum asalaam Sarata,

    Thanks for your kind and encouraging words dear happy I’m better now….just a momentary backslide. I get so disappointed in myself when that happens…but I’m realistic and know that it will happen from time to time. Being in N’s physical presence does something to me and my wires all get crossed. I need to keep our being around each other to an extreme minimum for the time being until I can get a handle on what causes it.

    Talking to her on the phone or texting is not a problem, but talking to her face to face is an entirely different matter. It sucks. And M of course does not understand why it causes such a visceral reaction in me. I have my ideas as to why and no it has nothing to do with jealousy or any of that. I felt zero jealousy with her. It was something else. It’s like she sucks my good energy out of me and replaces it with bad, leaving me drained and depressed and angry, almost. She isn’t doing this intentionally, I know that, but it happens and it’s a horrible feeling.

    I walked some of it off last night and again today and I feel a bit more centered and in control this morning Alhamdulillah. And I’m down about 7lbs so far, yay!!!

    Anyway, we’re in the upper Midwest US, Minnesota to be exact happy

  • Hilly

    May 8, 2013

    Assalamu Alaikum

    To all the newcomers, hello and welcome. Very glad that Allah swt has guided you to his wonderful sit. I pray that you will find the answers you are looking for and that your understanding of this life style will increase. This is a great pleace to just let it all out if need be. Inshallah I pray that Allah swt keep you all with us and enjoy.

  • Hilly

    May 8, 2013

    Assalamu Alaikum and peace to everyone

    Just stopping in to say Hello. Inshallah I pray that everyone is doing fine. I do not have the laptop to myself to much any more due to the fact that since my daughter is back she use it most of the time to do her school work. Inshallah when I do get more time I will always stop by to say hello. I miss so much with the chat that is going on and I do miss everyone sooooo much. Inshallah I pray that everyone has their health and their faith has increase tremendously. @Gail if I am correct you have a wedding anniversary coming next month, so happy anniversary and I pray that you and your hubby have many more lovely years together.

    Inshallah to all have a wonderful and peaceful day.

  • Felicia

    May 8, 2013

    Hi Gail,

    So polygamy is recognised in SA when it comes to inheritance and child support. The law only allows one wife to be registered but when it comes to inheritance and child support the law recognises the Nikaah Certificate. For immigration purposes it is not recognised. But she can still pitch up on my doorstep as enforcement of laws in this country is very relaxed.I heard of women being in the country for years without any immigration status, the real issue comes in if there is a whistle-blower or if she decides to find employment than the tax man requires information.

    I don’t doubt what you saying about her coming here, initially one of my sister’s comments was mil is wanting more money and can’t give her son any valid reason to milk him so this is her alternative. the more I read your comments the more I thought since the marriages are arranged and forced in that culture it was definitely the money tree they interested in. #2 was probably groomed and given the handbook to deal with this issue. Recently when I was thinking about communicating with her,I had to give it a second thought – her relationship with mil and her age could be why mil dominates her, than I thought of her family and there objectives. finally decided not to open that can of worms,how will speaking to her grow us as a family working towards better Islamic values? couldn’t get an answer to that.
    I think right now mil has her on the shop window advertising her latest catch, but I have heard she has stopped one daughter from visiting.(got the info from the cousin here working in our business, and remembered your and Jenny’s comments about how devious they are – so I shut my mouth and didn’t give out any info).
    I will definitely give what you say more thought, seems I have to have plan B at hand.
    I have to ensure my plan is within the constraints of Islam – got to do some research, zikr, tahajjud,etc.
    This is how my actions have changed, sad,I now have to think in a somewhat different manner and do things differently sometimes I wonder if this is my test? Why do I have to be like this simply not part of my lifestyle.
    I take my hat off to hubby, he should be awarded an Oscar for his acting skills, whatever the situation is on the other side or even business related he walks into the house we smiling and he smiles and life goes on. knowing the little bit of that lot I’m sure there are many requests,also of recent I noticed he stopped bringing his cousin (by the way it’s his mother’s brother’s son who is married to hubby’s sister) home to discuss business. I had previously noticed that he checks out everything in my house, wouldn’t be surprised if he gives a second by second account back home.Me- confused.
    the temperatures have dropped here, thank goodness I don’t get winter rain. I have decided to plant some root vegetables, first time for me. I still have some sunflowers and the bees are enjoying them.gardening has always calmed me.
    shaytaan does pop in quite often on the intimacy topic- even when hubby is here.
    Just got a call need to rush off to the building site
    Have a great day/sleep tight!!!

  • Sarata

    May 8, 2013

    @Kim
    Walaikumsalaam wa ramatullahi wa barakatu

    Oh bless you. Maybe these down days are to remind you that you’re still human lol.
    I’m sure you will be rewarded for your efforts, they take a lot of strength – but don’t push yourself too far (I doubt you will anyway you seem very sensible!)

    Where do you guys live if you don’t mind me asking?

    PS glad your food was a hit! happy

  • Gail

    May 7, 2013

    Felicia,
    Please be very careful.I just figured out yesterday that my excowife and exsister inlaw were both behind my illnesses when I visit Pakistan.I don’t have to tell you that Pakistani people are the most manipulative people and if u trust them then they will eat u alive and u will have knowone to thank but yourself.As u see he doesn’t want u having contact with your Paki cowife because he knows u will figure out if u already haven’t that he has told her he is bringing her to SA and her family.It always always works this way and he will have told her and her family to be patient it takes time.I don’t know the laws in SA can a man practice polygamy legally and immigrate his none SA wife?If it is not legal to have more than one wife then I would assume he will at some point try to get u to give him a paper divorce to get the paki wife to SA would be my thinking.It is not about the Pakistani wife but more about her family her brothers understand.When Pakistani people marry they see what the other family can offer them understand?Money,Homes,Cross Marriages,VISAS.Are you following me here?They don’t do marriages for free understand?You better think a million times before u allow your daughter to become a slave to a Pakistani man.You are not giving your daughter in marriage u are giving her to her mother inlaw to use as her mother inlaw sees fit.Your daughter will only be as good in her husbands eyes as his mother says.If his mother complains on her then she has no authority to speak up.She will be stuck.Something to think serious about.
    As for your situation u better believe your husbands Pakistani wife will never accept you.She is waiting with baited breath the day he divorces you.My excowife never accepted my and husbands biological child.Oh she pretended very well that she liked him but it was all just to look nice in front of hubby.She would sneak and buy her children toys and not buy my child a toy and my child is youngest of all the children.She also did the same thing with clothes.I wish I could say my excowife was the exception and not the rule but I had a sister inlaw that was Paki and the same exact thing she would not accept hubby practicing polygamy and wanted him to divorce his american wife.There is a reason why the Pakistani woman do not accept Polygamy and that is because they want all property,money,gold everything to be theirs.They do not want to share one rupee.They will deal it for a time but only for a time and if hubby refuses to divorce the foreign wife then all hell breaks loose.In my case my exsister inlaw on behalf of my excowife her cousin poisoned me.I became very ill but knowone figured out it was her.Then again cowife tried to poison me but instead of me getting poisoned she poisoned her own son by accident.Again I was clueless as to what was going on because I didn’t know her and hubby secret at that time.My own husband put me in harms way out of his own ignorance thinking she would not poison me when she was indeed giving me small amounts in my tea and cokes.
    Let me be clear my cowife wasn’t trying to kill me she was just trying to keep me ill so hubby would get tired of me being sick all the time and go to her for intimacy and hanging out and she thought she could get him to divorce me but it didn’t work.
    I would suggest to u that u and your daughter stay away from your husbands family because u know already for a fact your MIL doesn’t accept u.You also know for a fact that your husband by marrying back in pakistan to whom his mother chose cares more for his mother wishes and desires than yours.I agree with you also you must must become independent from him financially.If u want to stay married with him thats fine but make certain u never ever give permission for him to paper divorce u so he can bring his paki wife to SA is my advice.

  • Kim

    May 7, 2013

    Ok that was odd, suddenly my words went into italic font LOL…must be the “<" thing I did instead of parenthesis, because what I put in brackets didn't show up. I said (I will get over this!!!) or something like that. I got M sitting here reading over my shoulder kind of and it's bugging me LOL…

    Seriously, I am TRYING to get myself back to my happy serene place, and what I've said this week is the truth; I am happy M's happy, and happy N isn't alone anymore, and I have let go of all that possessiveness and jealousy. I'm just having a day. We all have them. Alhamdulillah, not the way I used to have them, and Insha Allah I have seen the back end of that mess!!!!

  • Gail

    May 7, 2013

    Arica,
    I don’t have an issue in that department.My husband and I both have high sex drives to be honest.The only time I didn’t have interest was when I was pregnant.I don’t know if it will help u or not but u might think to try to get more into it by going purchasing a few sexy nightgowns to start with or some lotions.If u don’t like lotions or can’t afford them then do strawberry or chocolate sauce or whip cream whatever works for u to get u in the mood.What turns my husband on is doing different styles.Is it possible u r just in some kind of funk or have u always not really enjoyed intimacy?I will say this and not sure if the older woman on here will agree with me or not but I believe being a good wife to your husband means creative in the intimacy department.Lets face it Men enjoy doing the do as Kim says and unless u want your man either cheating on you or going to your cowife everytime he feels the need to do the do u better snap out of your funk and get busy trying to create a wild night of passion for hubby.It’s not really that hard at least it is not for me.You must figure out what makes your husband go wild and desire then seeing him get physically turned on should spark something in you.For me it is talking like a French Wh@re(speaking very direct lol).For you it might be something less dramatic or more dramatic u will need to figure out what makes your hubby go wild and do that thing.Also to keep him interested u will need to come up with different crazy fun wild things to do(sin free of course)but u get the point.
    Arica I am not certain of your age but I know for me I was not sexually active in my 20s but when I hit my 30s it was game on and 40s the same way I am still going strong in that department.The only time I believe a wife should be off limits is when she is on her period or religious reasons.Otherwise it is part of marriage and it really does require effort to keep a great sex life in my opinion.It is not a big deal it just means u need to work a little harder in that area and believe me if u put forth the work in that area hubby will greatly reward you.lol
    You know it is also funny u mention this because last week hubby was giving me the silent treatment he confided in me he only broke the silent treatment because he was in dire need of intimacy from me.lol

  • Kim

    May 7, 2013

    Asalaam Aleikum Sarata,

    Oh, don’t think jealousy/territorial issues don’t arise in me, because they definitely do, even now. Today was a rough one :/ My new job is not very mentally challenging, leaving tons of time to “think”…even more than when I’m at home. I’m thinking the timing was bad for me to go back to work, what with M in the throes of newfound luv with N. Ugh.

    Yes, even I and my “everything is great” attitude hit a bump in the road now and again, and today was one of them. Yes I’m PMSing like mad, hence some of the emotional issues, but the old stuff crept back into my head and I’m at work going WTH am I doing, shoving my husband to a person who once was my sworn enemy, and CHEERLEADING both of them? Sheesh, why not just divorce him and get it over with if I am gonna do this.

    M made it very clear he wants relations tonight. This is a tough one. I’ll get over that too, though.

    It doesn’t help that M came home telling me how well they got along and how they talked and really communicated (taking my advice, he says), and I’m telling myself, “girl, you really done it this time”. Argh. N wants to be BFFs with me as well, and I’m JUST .NOT.READY for that. I don’t think I ever will be, due to how polar opposite we are. Just the conversation I had with her last night I wanted to run screaming. She didn’t say anything bad or anything, it’s just this 100 mph chatter, half in Hindi, half in English and I can barely keep up tongue

    Well the good news is, they both LOVED my korma LOL….

    I guess an upside to working is I met some really great people there. I pretty much do my own thing, but I do have some interaction with others, and I can tell already I’m going to hit it off with a few of them happy One lady in particular in her 50s, she cusses like a sailor but is hilarious and very hardworking. I liked her right off the bat.

  • Aishah 2013

    May 7, 2013

    I hear there’s new polygamy USA show set in Arizona tonight 9 national geographic channel.doublecheck info but that’s what I hear

  • Felicia

    May 7, 2013

    the saga continues,

    during Ramadaan last year we got into an argument regarding his responsibilities and he packed his bags and walked out. A few days later his friend heard of this and arranged for us to meet. Yes he is a Paki, I know Gail – I didn’t trust him. So we sit down and he asks me what’s the problem, I say I don’t know what hubby’s intentions are regarding lifestyle, schedule finances, where does he want to be buried,etc. etc. friend is quite calmly tells me hubby is in a fix and he spoke to hubby the day before and his recommendation is hubby brings #2 to SA. so given my emotional state I went from, so who’s gonna look after the very sick mil. In any case I hope since everyone has decided that this is the best solution for them and if and when they act upon it I will migrate to another country and hubby will be travelling from country to country. that ended that.
    That was the last I asked about schedules and hubby never speaks of it or the existence of #2 or even of his family in Pak. The only person who asks him is my mother, she makes salaam then asks him ” How is your mother is her new medicine helping her get better”, he answers she is ok- he knows the new medicine being#2. My mum speaks Urdu fluently, I asked her not ask him about his mum, she says it is good manners to ask about sick family members(wicked smile on her face) also she used to previously always ask about his family so no problem!!!

    Were am I right now – They are waiting for him to sire a thoroughbred Paki to inherit his money and assets. Or rather mine and his, or likely my daughter’s inheritance. During one of my melt downs I made sure that everyone in Paki dreamland knew that everything we have in SA and Paki belongs to hubby and I in equal shares. They can decide what to do with their son’s share with or without his permission, but I decide what to do with my share, the manner in which I sent the message they understood quite clearly, or rather realised that over the past years I have been submissive to Allah SWT and my investment of time and money was to help fulfil my hubby’s Islamic obligation to his family. reality is with them changing the status quo the financial status changes as well. I also let them know that they are treating their son unfairly and adding to his burden. Obviously they were quite surprised that I knew what they were up to. I have being asking Allah SWT guidance on this journey, to lead me on a path to better me as a Muslimah and also to pass on my Islamic lifestyle to my daughter. so far he has guided me towards a business venture and to gaining back my lost confidence. I am so thankful for that. I used to wait for some sign on how to deal with polygamy but have now accepted that when the time is right Allah SWT will let me know of his plan.
    So when Gail had her crystal ball out a few days ago predicting the different scenarios of Jenny’s trip to Pakistan I felt I needed to sit down with my cuppa and see where am I headed.
    I need to accept what the cultural impact will be on my and my daughters life if I decide to open communication with #2.
    She is controlled by mil and experience has shown this. the intention is to fulfil greed. Hubby has during his 3 month trip to Paki realised that mil is not as sick as she claims(took him awhile).It was made clear that mil and #2 would like us out of the scene. So any relationship I have with #2 will ultimately be controlled by mil, no way is she going to wiggle herself into my life she never had the opportunity and I ain’t giving her chance. I have not been involved in the family politics and choose not to be.
    If by some stupidity I decide to communicate with them I have to deal with all #2′s family member visas to SA and employment. I know this time round we won’t be able to control the issue. MIL was clear that her son needed an heir that is why she needed a Paki daughter-in-law so obviously son has to share his wealth. I don’t see myself working long hours for others to benefit.
    I have to then contend with my daughter marrying a cousin – NO WAY. I know Allah SWT has decreed who we will marry so if it is decreed she has to marry a cousin, it will be under very different circumstances like she will be a qualified professional, the marriage will not forced on her but a marriage that she will want to be part of for the pleasure of Allah SWT.
    I had agreed to hubby using profits from our business to take care of his mother and unmarried sisters and to pay for their weddings. The one brother-in-law here is earning a salary and works for it so no issue there, he also had arranged his own work permit. I have decided that hubby knows I had invested money into the business to fulfil Islamic obligations and after that it would be our income. Allah SWT has blessed me with this business opportunity so I see no reason to demand my share of the business now. If hubby chooses to use my money for reasons other than what it was meant he will answer to his Creator. I have ensured that my current business and other assets cannot be touched by him or any unsavoury characters.
    I will wait for Allah SWT to guide me regarding the relationship with #2, but until then hubby’s decision that we have no communication with each other suits me fine.
    I just don’t know how copes with all of this, but I try not to dwell on this as it infuriates me.
    There are a lot of mixed emotions right now form loving him to clobbering him. A lot of uncertainty as to how my decision will affect my daughter, just have to wait and see.
    One of the biggest difficulty is trusting hubby – I cannot share with him my thoughts, like he is really supportive with my business venture he attends meetings and gives me good advice, but I cannot let him know what my future plans are for expanding it, I fear if I discuss it with him he might want to formally be part of it, I just want to be financially independent if I tell him this is only my project he will be offended, that may not be his reaction but some simple things have become very difficult.

  • Felicia

    May 7, 2013

    @J and Mari2

    When my husband is in SouthAfrica, and in my presence, he behaves as if he is not polygamous. I am sure there is daily communication with #2 in Paki. His most modern means of communication is cellphone and on rare occasions is email. He hates facebook and Skype, practically retarded when using it.
    I am from S/Africa and him Paki. He was engaged to cousin before coming to SA. When he met me he called off the engagement, obviously with mum’s approval.He married me and she married another cousin. Years down the line, after my daughter was born, mil asked him to re-marry. He disagreed. We recently migrated to New Zealand. Lived there a few years and then decided to return to SA. As we had a house and a business we decided I would return with my daughter and hubby would sell house and business then return. MIL tricked him by saying she was seriously ill and his sisters backed her claim. Hubby rushed to see his mother only to find his wedding was arranged. Girl and the whole wedding party organised. I have visited Paki twice. 2 -3 weeks after this “forced marriage” hubby returned to SA for a month. I refused to believe that he didn’t have a hand in agreeing to this marriage. My sis who had initially agreed with me on this point took one look at him and said the man is in shock. She gave him the benefit of the doubt and said, knowing his integrity he will end this farce. How wrong she was. Hubby lived for another year in NZ and has been back in SA and Paki for the last 18months or so. At first he did n’t want to talk because he hadn’t decided what he was doing. It eventually ended in arguments. Reading this blog gave me an understanding of how the Paki culture operated. I received a lot of insight from Gail and Jenny, also much Islamic guidance. He has been to Paki regularly ranging from 1-3 months at a time. The business has been neglected, of course we have his family members managing it while he is away. During the first visits I used to manage it, but no way was I gonna continue if he didn’t want to discuss with me the schedule and responsibilities. Of course I got my brother in to speak to him during the early stages but he was still trying to make sense of what was happening. My zikr really brought me much needed peace. My mum bro and sis and 2 close friends know of the situation. I haven’t told the other family and have no intention to. My dad died when we were very little and family from both my parents side had taken care of us financially and socially. They were really concerned with our well being. We have worked hard to make them proud of us. I wouldn’t want to give them concern at this stage in their lives.I have the utmost respect for them as they had clothed, fed and educated us.
    so the last few trips I have no communication with him when he is in Paki, he calls daily to speak to our daughter.I am quite frustrated with him for not talking about our new lifestyle and reach an agreement, I have basically stopped asking. He lets me know a few days before he departs and a day before he returns. When he returns it is mixed emotions, like a stranger has walked into our home, newly established routines are out the window and the old one is put into motion. My biggest fear in all of this was I would change my good habits and Islamic values. I was on the brink of doing that. Madressa classes and Ana’s “ask Allah SWT for guidance” brought me back to my senses. Allah SWT has guided me to the person I was before this fiasco. not fully there yet .

  • Aishah 2013

    May 7, 2013

    Salaam Arica sometimes you just gotta get through it.I know with kids house etc it may be one more thing to think about schedule in.but men don’t think that way.Generally the two heads are not working together to be blunt.can u get a backrub out of it?

  • Sarata

    May 7, 2013

    @Kim
    I’ve just been reading your posts and I can relate I them regarding the intense love that sprang up with the polygamy issue.
    I’m feeling this at the moment – it must be some weird female terratorial instinct or something lol!

    I am praying that I will get to that relaxed, accepting stage you seem to have reached – ESP as my Co-2-be is a good friend. It’s so nice that your concerned about their relationship and can see they fit well together.
    I can already see how good together my hub + friend will be, which makes me both happy for them
    & jealous at the same time.
    When else in life will we experience such contrasting emotions hey?!? happy

  • Arica

    May 7, 2013

    Oooops!!! I meant “my husband”!!! LOL

  • Arica

    May 7, 2013

    @Gail, my husband just got tired of it. The business was good, we worked in a more affluent neighborhood. I would not do it where i live now. Too much competition. We have 3 or 4 trucks that go down our street daily.

    I need some advice though, I have mentioned before my problems with intimacy with our husbands. Does anyone else have this problem….it kind of seem that all you ladies are getting on quite often!! LOL!!! I really just have no desire whatsoever and i can’t just make myself have it. We are having constant arguments about this. I don’t know what do do!!

  • Sarata

    May 7, 2013

    @Ana Lol, I agree – a big fat “No Thanx!” to any more golden handcuffs for now lol!
    What else would you like to know? Which prediction lol?!

  • Marta

    May 7, 2013

    Assalamu ‘Alalikum Wa Rahmatullah

    Thank you for kind answer, Baraka Allah. I love my husband but less now, and I feel less and less love for him with time pass. I turn to Allah and find new meaning, and I know is good. But also I miss the love for husband. And polygamy takes much love to work. If not love husband, why stay and hurt? I not hurt much now, but am afraid that if I love more I will hurt more. So now I love Allah, but maybe not husband. I am sad but happy to find help in Allah. I find help in your answer Jazakallahu khayran

  • ana

    May 7, 2013

    @Sarata, As Salaamu Alaikum,

    What you described about your feelings with regard to starting a business are exactly my sentiments as well. After working with the golden handcuffs on for many, many years, the thought of getting back into a rigid schedule of work just doesn’t work for me right now. I like my freedom. I like not having my life on a schedule. I have businesses in mind and have begun some work on them, but I’m not quite there yet in getting busy. I’m sought of like Arica in the motivation department. All in all, nothing will happen until it’s time – Allah’s time. Then we’ll have the motivation.

    Sarata, you are so correct about the work needed out there, regarding Islamic education. You are needed out there, if it pleases Allah.

    Sarata, I’m interested to know more about your prediction thinking or, Insha Allah, I’ll just wait and see. No pressure…

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Sarata

    May 7, 2013

    @Ana
    I was reading ur post to J & Mari2
    I completely agree with what you’ve written.
    No disputing it’s tough, but we need to try to keep things in context and also give ourselves credit (& each other via this wonderful blog winking for our good intentions and efforts to deal with the trials we are given.

    I’m trying now to see my situation less as a burden being placed on me by hubs, and as the test given to me by Allah swt.
    He tests those he loves Alhamdulillah and who knows, this test might be the one that gets us into Jannah In’sha Allāh!

    Alhamdulillah for the tests! May Allah grant Us all the strength & sabr we need to pass them and be amoungst the people of Jannah In’sha Allāh ameen! Xx

  • Sarata

    May 7, 2013

    Asalaamu Alaikum @J I will keep you updated In’sha Allāh.i
    I too am going through a completely bipolar episode lol. (plus monthly hormones into the mix not helping lol!)
    One min I’m thinking “wow my lovely sister will officially be part of my family!” she & my toddler already have a strong bond Mashallah so it’s like she is already family anyway.
    Next minute (literally a matter of minutes later!) I’m almost in tears feeling sorry for myself that I have to share my lovely husband. It’s pure selfishness and jealousy – Alhamdulillah I dont usually have to deal with such emotions but that means I haven’t had much practice on how to handle them before now!

    Ive been reminding myself that if I want the best for my sister how could I not want for her what I have myself?
    We are relatively well off here – we can afford luxuries and occasional treats that many people can’t (& I already know she loves pizza & Icecreams
    Lol!) To think shell have a secure & comfortable marriage/future makes me happy.

    I just need to keep this in mind when shaytan starts his interference!

    I don’t think our “down” episodes mean we are failing the tests given to us by Allah swt tho. They are just normal emotions, naffs & shaytan. As long as we keep struggling with them we have not failed In’sha Allāh!

    I agree with @Felicia’s response to your last post (in which you addressed me)
    There are people with relatively much bigger tests than ours.
    I also agree than work or charity work outside the home to give us a bit of independence back is a good idea.
    My hubs been encouraging me for ages to start a business but I’ve been reluctant to commit after years of 9-5 work.
    Where I live the poverty makes it difficult to trust people with ur business and I enjoy having my own time to go to madrasah and socialise with other sisters as and when I please.
    I am going to start something though – I just dont know what yet lol!
    (There’s plenty of work needs to be done here with regards to decent Islamic education, so I’m looking I get involved with that In’sha Allāh)

    I will keep you and the other sisters in this blog in my Duas – I predict they will be MANY in the coming weeks! •_• 😁

  • ana

    May 7, 2013

    @J & Mari2, As Salaamu Alaikum!

    I don’t think what you’re feeling and thinking is abnormal. Whether it’s good or bad is another thing straight face

    I believe we go through stages in dealing with this lifestyle (polygamy). As it’s been mentioned before here by Gail, me, and others, it could be a purification process. When we’re in this stage we see the good, bad and ugly in us. We see where we need work on ourselves. We see our strengths and our weaknesses. We see the dirt in us that needs cleansing – the rust or dark spot on our hearts. We can feed it and act on our feelings in a negative way and the rust spot or dark spot grows bigger or we could do good and the spot or rust lessens and eventually goes away.

    How long we stay in this period, how long it lasts is an individual thing. We all have our own battle. It’s a personal Jihad. It takes fighting with ourselves to overcome the negativity and rid ourselves of the diseases in our hearts. Then Allah purifies our souls. We have to recognize what’s wrong with us, not like what is wrong with us, and ask Allah to remove it. For Him to remove it, we must do our part too – obey and worshiping Him. It’s a good start when we don’t like what we think and feel, know what we think and feel is wrong, and want to change it. It’s all good happy

    Allah swt rewards good with good and rewards evil with evil.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Gail

    May 7, 2013

    KA126,
    Try to stay positive if u can.Men do this weird talking stuff don’t think to much into it.As far as malaria and cowife flight cancelled Sh!t happens.Unless your cowife tries to poison you I wouldn’t worry to much about your hubby and his meaningless words to be honest.
    Listen I been down this road where my husband took the kids from his 1st wife and gave them to me.It was never my intentions to raise my cowife children but hubby took them from her and gave to me and although I love the kids to death and I feel like in our situation it was for the best because cowife was against me to the point she tried to poison me on at least one occasion(I suspect more) it worked out in the best interest of the children that hubby and I raised them.
    When you cowife comes try to find out what kind of person she is her morals and values and character.Don’t listen to your hubby you find out yourself.
    I will say it is never a good Idea to plot and plan against another person.It was so morally wrong I feel of your husband to say he would keep the child and send her back like the woman is worthless for him.Think about it logically he is putting u through hell sleeping with her then turn right around and say she is worthless to him and divorced came out of his mouth.Are you following me?He is morally and ethically screwed up if u ask me.Believe me when I say if he can talk like that about her with no shame then u better believe he can talk about u like that also.Don’t buy what he is selling because it is not genuine my sweet friend.
    If she is so worthless for him as to give her divorce then why is he hurting you by having physical intimacy with her?Yup Yup I am not a smart woman but I know my husband told me the same crap stuff at the time it just confused me but looking back now I think my husband had the morals of an alley cat.

  • KA126

    May 6, 2013

    @Gail,

    Yes, my husband has been released from the hospital. He is still very weak and hates that he is not as strong as he was. Regarding the schedule, I basically took your advice and explained to him that I would not contribute financially to the household and still lose my days. I will not be traveling to pay for them to live in my house and I don’t get any benefits for it. He agreed. As far as the nights at the mosque, it has changed to “me” time. Now that he explained the two wives, full time job and his business and kids… he would like some time for hisself… That is kinda understandable, but this is also something that HE asked for….. he responded with “if she didn’t have my daughter, I would leave her over there. I just want to get my daughter to the States. I can always send her back alone.” Don’t know how I feel about statement yet. I am still digesting it. in the meantime, we are trying to get my CoCo another ticket to arrive on Wednesday. She will probably have to wait at the airport until my flight comes in. In sha Allah, it will work out. My Habibi said maybe this is a sign for him to divorce her: 1. Malaria 2. Her flight mysteriously gets cancelled. Subhana Allah….Allah SWT is the best of planners.

  • ~Fatima~

    May 6, 2013

    Ohh Im still up.. Forgot I had to order some more color eye contacts for the store and flea market.. had to take inventory of all of our stuff and email out some more orders..
    I swear hubby does not know all what we need or dont need.. If I didnt do it.. it wouldnt get done..
    Stopped at a few wholesale places coming through Chicago this afternoon which helped out alot..

    @ marta.. welcome to the site.. I know you will get lots of info and information that might be helpful to you on here..happy

    @Maureen.. I hope you are feeling better..
    @ jenny.. hows the little tribe doing?? Bet they keep you busy as well as your work..,, your a busy busy woman..LOL
    @ ka126.. I see your co co”s flight got cancelled.. ( i felt a little snicker there too) lol Gosh I was just thinking that just about the time she got her visa.. your hubby got sick too and now the flight got cancelled.. Hmmm ??? whats up with all these things being tossed in the path? could it be fate?? just wondering….. things happen for reasons ya know

  • Kim

    May 6, 2013

    Asalaam Aleikum all,

    @Ana, what type of workout do you do? I’m still just doing the walking. I messed my knee up pretty good this past winter (slipped on ice and twisted it) so I have to take it kind of easy. I am NOT a runner/jogger, never was even when I was in shape, but I can sure power-walk. It’s a good workout…tighten the abs and glutes while pumping the arms and taking longish strides…yep. I feel the burn and it gets the heart rate up to a cardio workout level.

    Little Engine that Could…haha, I like that. Yep I keep chugging along.

    So I picked up a short temp job, very different than my usual slave-in-a-cubicle gig. Prepping packages for shipment in a warehouse. It barely pays more than what my unemployment is each week, but it gives me something productive to do and gets me out of the house. Financially we’re in pretty dire straits with M being taken off work by his doctors and me getting laid off a pretty good paying job. But we get by, Alhamdulillah…and I know better is coming soon. Allah is truly merciful to those who remember Him.

    So anyway, it’s a day job so I won’t be here during the day on weekdays except to check in from my android on breaks. I’ll hop in tomorrow morning and after work though. Hope you all have a great night/day wherever you are!

  • ana

    May 6, 2013

    @Felicia, As Salaamu Alaikum!

    It means so much to me to know that some of what I’ve said has been helpful. I’m so grateful to Allah that it is. Alhumdulliah. Thank you for your kind words of support big hug What I say helps me too happy

    Allah u Akbar!

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ~Fatima~

    May 6, 2013

    Salams to all.. Trying to catch up on all the posts here.. Hope everyone is doing fine..
    Well, sister and brother in law were sent off this afternoon on the plane thumbs up wave
    Sister in law cried and cried at the airport and huggin me saying she will miss me and she loves me so much.. I felt so bad.. she made me cry too.. : ((
    Its been a long week.. finally I have my house back.. All in all, the wet floors, dripping toilet seats, diabetes, hemmorroids, vericous veins,hurting legs and on and on.. I have to say I will miss her ( somewhat?) worried
    As far as the deer jerky goes.. I bagged it all up and she took it with her.. LOL
    We were left with a 6 thousand dollar hospital bill, thats not including the 148 dollars for her eye doctor apointment which she wanted new 180 dollar frames ( and didnt get because we told her to put the new prescription in her current frames)
    I swear I dont understand those people who come here wanting free this and that… I never will..
    I showed her the bill .. she said ohh they dont have free government hospitals here??? well anyway no one offered to help pay it.. Im not surprised at all..
    She was still complaining all the way to the airport that she thought her stomach was having bad pains and bla blah blah phbbbbt
    well just wanted to drop in and say hello.. im going to bed.. lots of cleaning tomorrow and I will catch u on all the new posts then…

  • ana

    May 6, 2013

    @Kim, Wa Alaikum As Salaam!

    Good for you, Kim. happy I am so happy for you. You keep chugging away. You remind me of the “Little Engine that Could”. I love that story. “I know I can. I know I can. I know I can.” I have the book. I’m a child at heart loool Your post brought a smile to my face.

    Kim, what I realized is when I really begin to feel myself getting back into Alex again, when I see I’m leaning too much to the wrong side – Alex and not Allah, something happens (something little) to wake me up and I snap back to my senses again. I thank Allah swt for protecting me. He gives me signs or warnings that I’m going astray or headed that way. I’m so grateful for those warnings. When I start leaning the other way, towards Alex, I feel hurt. When I snap out of it, I have the peace and contentment. The backsliding is momentary. It’s why it is so important that we bring Allah to remembrance and not intermit. Allah swt says that remembrance of Him is the greatest thing in life, without a doubt – the greatest thing in life without a doubt!

    @Gail,

    I thought about you when I watched a movie in which one of the actors said, “No one leaves this earth without feeling terrible pain” and “Most people’s lives are a disappointment to them.” I think the saying are very true. We need to know the meaning of life.

    Oh, well, I’m going to go get my workout on. I’m on a mission like Kim. Thing is – I’ve always been on the mission. I need to lighten up on the mint cookies and scones for mission accomplished. For real…

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Gail

    May 6, 2013

    Arica,
    Yes I have seen the flower looking snowcone cups they are really cute but there to pricy to use on the truck I just use simple plastic cups 6 oz on my trucks and sale for $1.00 .We also carry good humor brand and it is very popular.What made u leave the business?Did you not have great sales in your area?I laughed when u talked about raiding the truck my children raid the trucks and walk in freezer daily.lol

  • Kim

    May 6, 2013

    Ana, asalaam aleikum,

    You put it very well, as you always do.

    I for one feel an enormous burden off my back now that my marriage has been redefined in a way, and M and I talked about the dynamics of our marriage. I was hesitant to tell him how I really feel for fear he’d misunderstand and think I don’t love him at all anymore, but it turned out he felt the same way as I do. We love each other, we don’t ever want to lose each other, but we’re not the whole world to each other. The attempts at this intense romantic love were futile because that’s just not how our relationship is. My love DID deepen due to polygamy, but not in the “desperately in love” way. He feels the same. We’re best of friends and have a very strong bond. At times we’re more like roommates, because I’m deep into doing my thing, he’s deep into doing his thing, he sleeps on the couch a lot (it’s easier on his back and hip), we argue like siblings once in awhile, we joke around, but we have our own individuality and own individual lives we enjoy living.

    So N was here and picked M up. She was her usual bubbly self, and she asked me a lot of questions about my mindset about them being together again. She doesn’t want to feel guilt, and I assured her there is absolutely nothing to feel guilty about where I’m concerned. I sent them off and came upstairs and here I am, no tears, no drama. It’s awesome.

  • ana

    May 6, 2013

    @Marta, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    I thank Kim and Gail for welcoming you happy I apologize if I missed thanking anyone; if I did, it was not intentional. I’m so glad you’re here with us, Marta. I like what Gail said, “one nice thing about being a woman is waking up in a new world everyday!!” It’s so true. I scratch my head, wondering about how Allah swt has created us – women. How we are is amazing.

    I think many here who are in polygamous marriages realize that loving our husbands less than we did before they married others is a good thing, especially if we are Muslims and realize the purpose Allah created us for – to worship and serve Him alone. Mari2, just touched upon it a little while ago. If we love our husbands or anyone more than we love Allah swt, then we have problems or we will have them. Allah’s promises are true. We know whether we love our husbands more than we love Allah swt.

    We can ask ourselves a couple questions to find out where we stand. Do we think about/remember our husbands more than we think about/remember Allah or do we think about/ remember Allah more than we think about/remember our husbands? Do we talk about our husband’s more than we talk about Allah or do we talk about Allah more than we talk about our husbands? The one we remember/think of the most is the one who is most important to us. The one we talk about the most is the one who is most important to us. We, ourselves, can check ourselves. What we talk about, think about and remember is what is most important to us, whether it’s our children, our spouses, our jobs, money, etc.

    So, if a Muslim finds she loves her husband less, it could be a very good thing, if she loves Allah more. It probably means we are developing a good, healthy love for our spouse, too – a lesser love. Now, if one finds she loves her husband less (out of anger, hatred, bitterness, and rancor, and does not remember/think of Allah, and don’t worship Him (read Quran, study Islam, Zikr, offer the five daily salats (prayers), then there is no benefit for her in loving her husband less. Her loving her husband less, has more to do with her dislike of polygamy or dislike of her life. There is no reward for her, if the decreased love for her husband is not because she is conscious of Allah swt. She probably will continue to suffer and be in pain, if the decrease in love didn’t result from the right reason.

    Marta, what you described sounds a bit different than what most have described about loving their husbands less. It sounds the love you have for your husband has actually left your heart completely, and you miss it. If it is the case, it is an entirely different story. I remember when I was seventeen years old. I had a “high school” sweetheart. I loved him with all my heart and soul. Other boys used to tell me things about him, that he was seeing someone else, for instance. Of course, I didn’t believe it. I thought they only wanted to end his and my relationship so one of them could be my boyfriend. Well, one day I found a tiny black book with all these girls’ names and phone numbers in it. The love I had for that boy instantly left my heart. I was so heartbroken broken heart The thing is – I wanted that love back and I wanted it desperately. I loved being in love. I loved the feeling. I pray to God over and over and over again to let me love that boy the way I used to. (It was before I was even aware that Allah swt controls what is in the heart.) Needless to say, the love never came back.

    Marta, if you are telling us the love is completely gone and you want it back. The only way it could happen is if Allah wills it. Allah swt controls the heart of man (mankind). There is nothing you can do yourself to get it back. You could ask Allah to put the love back in your heart for your husband. You should remember though that sometimes we pray for, or like, or ask for, or want things that are not good for us and sometimes the things that are good for us, we don’t want.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Arica

    May 6, 2013

    @Gail, we used to have a truck too, we did it 2 or 3 years cant remember. We just went to the wholesaler every day or every other day. i miss raiding the truck at night! lol! i would steal snow cones, nestle cookies and almond bars. I dont like the blue bunny, i prefer good humor and made my husband carry those brands!! I forgot about Ralphs i remember coming across that site awhile ago. i ordered a case of the flower cups at Detroit popcorn because i hate the paper….they are also alot less mess!! ans super cute, Have u seen those?

  • Kim

    May 6, 2013

    You know what’s interesting, J? M and I JUST had this conversation today.

    You spoke about your co asking your husband if she wanted a divorce would he give her one and he said he holds no prisoners and she was disappointed, apparently, by that answer….

    How odd. Because we had this conversation just a few hours ago. N is having some issues with her kids accepting her and M reuniting. Her middle child, who is a son aged 20 or so, told her to “find a single man”. She knows her family, who accepted M wholeheartedly before, will have issues now due to all the crap that went on. Anyways, he told me, “I’ll tell her, if she wants her kids to be happy, then go”. OMG….

    I VERY PATIENTLY explained to him why that is the wrong wrong WRONNNNG thing to say. It’s telling N that whether she’s in his life or not doesn’t matter to him. He pulled that with me before, too, when I would say “I didn’t create this mess, this woman harassing me and throwing digs at me, having to let you go for half our marriage to be with this person I can’t stand, and I do NOT have to tolerate it.” He’d say, “you’re right, you can go”. UGH…I’m nowhere near as sensitive as N is, but that still upset me and made me feel like nothing to him. It’s like dude…you don’t care if I divorce your @$$? Sheesh…so I can imagine what that kind of thing does to N who is light years more insecure and feeling vulnerable than I am.

    I really hope he will heed at least SOME of my advice. I know I annoy him with lectures but I’d rather annoy him with lectures now than get an earful from both of them later on.

    I also kind of coached N on the phone today, same stuff. She was way more receptive tongue

  • Kim

    May 6, 2013

    STOP TALKING ABOUT ICE CREAM!!!!

    LOL…just kidding, kind of….this low carb lady has a major weakness for ice cream, always has…and now it’s finally FINALLY dare I say it? HOT up here…yummmmmy….*sigh*

    I actually have a recipe for low-carb ice cream that friends swear is the bomb. Once I finish this week and if results are showing to my satisfaction, I’m rewarding myself with some.

    J, glad you like my replies happy Helping M with N is actually so much easier than I ever thought. Actually, I never thought I WOULD be helping reunite them, but honestly, they belong together….throughout all the drama, they love each other. Through weeks and weeks of absolutely no communication, they still love each other. I have no reason or right to stand in the way, and I think it would be so beneficial, spiritually and practically, for all of us.

    I’ll go out and meet N when she gets here, which will be in about an hour. She’ll be upset if I don’t. I have the Korma in a serving dish all wrapped n ready to go, so I’ll bring it out to her. It’s a new recipe I concocted so I hope they like it. Insha Allah they will.

    Glad you’re feeling better now dear! You’ll have days of bipolar, days of down, days of up, sometimes oversensitive, sometimes numb. It’s all part of the polygamy package. I do agree with Gail….give it a shot with bonding with your co, you really have nothing to lose and potentially lots to gain. I’m sure she’s feeling vulnerable and uneasy. It ain’t no cakewalk for anyone involved. It does get easier, if everyone’s on the reasonably same wavelength if there’s 3 way communication.

    I better get out of my grungy shorts and tank top (yay for summer comfy clothes) and get dressed before N arrives! M just got out of the shower so I better get in there. Much luv, all <3

  • J

    May 6, 2013

    I could go for a strawberry snow cone right about now yummy!!

    happy winking happy

  • J

    May 6, 2013

    Thank you Gail, I agree with you. He already did marry her so no stopping there lol. But I do feel like sometimes I am not interested in being anybodies friend, the idea of being next to her when I know she is his wife as well is very hard to accept at least now it is. With hub am forced to deal with it i’ve been with him for 6 years almost and we have children and he is so dam sweet with me. But her I just dont know, I do wish her happiness though it is difficult to find a good and just man now a days everyone has some other secret agenda going. So as you can see am very split about this. Sometimes I want to her curse her out, sometimes hubb. Like Kim said its a very Bipolar stage lol to funny.

    Hw’s the weather for everyone? We had a nice run tommorow will be cloudy and then rain rain rain and more rain for the rest of the week and am talking the whole week. So I might be helping out water my tulips with tears!! lol I make myself sometimes

  • Mari2

    May 6, 2013

    @ Felicia and J,
    I too often vacillate between calm and bare emotion. But I have come to realize that much of my emotional upheaval is linked to my expectations and wants. I want more attention/time, I want, I want, I want. And my wants are linked with M., not Allah. As Ana has stated in past entries, we must strive to make Allah our god, not our husbands. I will admit that is hard (for me at least), and I haven’t an easy road in this, but on the days my focus is on Allah I am infinitely calmer.

    One thing I have stipulated with M is that all fitnah with #1, and family in Pak, and cousin wife is his burden to bear. I have no control over his choices. I have said my piece, researched immigration issues, and given my input. The end. I’ve done all I am willing to do, or can do and still retain peace of mind. I only asked him to let me know when he will return to Pak and be married. Some may think I am trying to live in a land of denial, but the craziness that is brewing in his family right now is over the top, Bollywood drama, and I am just not willing to be a part of the fray. Better for me to take refuge in Allah.

  • Gail

    May 6, 2013

    J,
    It is completely normal don’t worry.The truth is you may never embrace polygamy but it doesn’t mean that u are not following G.D will understand.You are not trying to stop the marriage and u are trying your hardest to be understanding.I think u are completely normal.I know for me I actually had a very hard time with it at the start but I tell u the truth I would have accepted it if my excowife would have embraced it.I do however think that if your cowife is trying to embrace u then unless u are going to stand up and forbid your hubby to marry her I think u really should take small babysteps to embrace her also.If she has done nothing to you then I would say at least try there is nothing wrong to try with her and if u feel at anytime she is trying to cut your back then stop contact it really is that easy.If it were me I would take babysteps to try with your cowife she may just turn out to be your bestfriend who knows?Think Positive!!!!!!
    Anyway think on it but don’t give into negativity as it will serve u no useful purpose in my opinion.

  • Gail

    May 6, 2013

    KA126,
    Is your hubby out of the hospital yet?How is he doing?Have u a chance to talk with hubby and if he has changed his mind on sleeping at the mosque 3 mights a week?Curious how things r going on your end.

  • Gail

    May 6, 2013

    Arika,
    No I actually have a commercial freezer that cools to -30 it is a huge one and holds pallets and pallets of icecream.I do purchase my concentrates from Ralphs online.I paid around 100 to 150 and this is my third season using the concentrates I buy gallons at a time.It is dirt cheap and I buy the paper snowcone holders 5,000 at a time for 100 dollars it is soooo cheeap and I sell them for $2.00 a piece.It is so simple and highly profitable.I sell them on my trucks along with blue bunny and other products.All my snowcones and icecream are prepacked and ready to eat.I also deal with Mexican products like Rueda wheels and I also make and pack my own cotton candy with my own machine.I am in the process to purchase my own popsicle making machine from china and start making my own popsicles.In the next 3 years we are planning to start our own factory.
    Hubby just kinda stumbled into this business years ago and we just kept going with it and today the business is a huge success in our area which truthfully is my husbands hard work.

  • J

    May 6, 2013

    KIM

    I love your replys!! I feel at ease reading them to who ever you respond lol. Thats awesome happy
    When I read “Bipolar” I laughed cause it has definitely described how I have been feeling oh boy. Am feeling okay right now actually. Yeah I think the co many have put many ideas in her head. She had asked hub if she asks for a divorce would he give it to her? and he said I do not hold any prisoners, I think she might have gotten offended. What did she wanna hear, no lol? anyways your are amazing how you have been dealing with your N and M. oh by the way every time you write N or M i think about M&M’s LOL!!! I mean you are an amazing, strong woman you cook them food!!?? and advising him too SubhaanAllah. May you be rewarded much with your actions. When does he want the to of you meet? I remember you wrote in one of your post that you have let yourself go somewhat, I did the same after becoming muslim and covering then my having a baby. It’s like I do not have time for this I cover anyways lol. But after my son the crappy feeling starts getting to you. I dress nicely everyday now whether my husband is home or not, I do buy clothes on the cheaper side as my toddlers destroy clothes. As for my hair I just put it in a nice braid on the regular days When iam on my period I blow out my hair or curl and do my nails. I always had a pretty good self esteem but now it has gotten even better. I have noticed that when you do these little things for YOURSELF it pays of even in weight loss cause your like damm I look hot and it helps you shed extra weight and keep it in check happy

    I hope this time around you and maybe your future co have peace, I know Allah is the one that protects, it does scare me though thinking my co might eventually maybe hold a grudge against my kids because hub will put them first. and you know that evil eyeball.

  • Gail

    May 6, 2013

    Arika.
    Listen to make simple concentrate it is sooo easy.Just take a gallon milk jug and fill it with a 4 or 5 pound bag of sugar it really doesn’t matter as both are very sweet and then fill it the rest of the way up with warm water and add 1/3 cup concentrate.It is just that simple.I make Mexican snow cone flavors also spicy mango,Watermelon with Tajan.The Mexicans here in our area love love our SNOW to GO snowcones in a cup.We do that separate from the snowcones but concentrates are all the same.If u have Mexicans in your area try to target them they spend alot of money on these types of icy drinks and snowcones.I don’t know if u have a snowcone stand or how u are selling but I own Icecream truck business so thats how I distribute my products.

  • J

    May 6, 2013

    Felicia

    Thats wonderful that you attend madressa and are at least involved. I actually applied for a position today that need someone bilingual so we will see what happens. Am definitly not worried about the co and money though, my husband is a tough man to fool. It would be nice to make my own money and send some to my parents, my mom would be against it but I know secrectly she would love it. happy So you say your husband does not discuss polygamy, how come?? Has he mainly stayed the same or have things extremely changed? I know some men just rather not discuss certain things to avoid drama or making their wife feel like bad. Mine is acting like nothing has happened lol. But then again she doesnt have a place yet, I dont know whether she will be in our building or a different place. InshaAllah share some of your experience it will definitly help you and help us too. May Allah ease your heart day by day and may the Qur’aan be the light of our hearts.

  • Kim

    May 6, 2013

    OMG I swear I’m going to throw this laptop off my balcony.

    The sentence “So I’m prepping M for his date again, with N supplying dinner” got all flummoxed up and I don’t know how. It SHOULD read, “So I’m prepping M for his date with N, again supplying dinner”….AAAAAAAAARGH….*head/desk*

  • Kim

    May 6, 2013

    @J,

    Hey there, don’t be so hard on yourself dear! I think what you’re feeling is totally normal. I think we all went through a bipolar period where our feelings changed day by day, or second by second, and everything in between. It’s ok.

    Your co may have built up the expectation of being BFF’s, with or without your husband’s help. And maybe at one time or another you were more receptive or gave up that vibe, so she got that impression. I know for me it all sounded great in theory but in reality it was a whole nother deal. Again, I’m a severe introvert (I have mild Aspergers and am socially very awkward) and N is a total bubbly extrovert. When I’m around her and she’s going on 100 miles and hour chattering (or yelling when she’s mad) I want to find the door real quick. She exhausts me LOL…and that’s not her fault. It’s just how we are. She was pretty put-off by my not wanting to be around her much and was all on the surface very sweet, but in reality, she wanted me and my kids to disappear. Early on at least.

    So I’m prepping M for his date, again with N supplying dinner (Chicken Korma). I’m coaching him on his “etiquette” when any sensitive issues come up during their conversation. I said you can either try to score points with tit for tat accusations of wrongdoing, or you can try to understand each other. You cannot do both.

  • Felicia

    May 6, 2013

    Wa-alaikum salaam J,

    A year after becoming polygamous I was still trying to find my way, at madressah we would discuss verses from the Quraan and when I got home I would burst into tears. I felt this is such a small test from Allah SWT compared to what the sahabah had and I am failing it. What really helped was this blog. Everyone sharing ideas and experiences and mainly Ana’s Islamic approach to polygamy.( Thanks Ana, may Allah grant you much happiness in this life and the hereafter for your guidance)
    I never researched polygamy in-depth until after the fact, so when I was thrown into it, it was chaos.
    I agree with your mil, get a part-time job. I have always been independent with my own income. I became a stay at home mum because of fertility treatment. I used to spend hours crying and trying to make reason of my polygamous state. Most of the sisters here advised that we as polygamous wives should have our own income, income that hubby and Co, and my case the Pakistani family, cannot touch. I wanted flexi time so I can have more time for remembrance of Allah SWT and be home when my daughter returns from school and the country I live in isn’t very supportive with part time work. I was tearful all the time so I started with volunteering time to charitable organisations and have eventually started my own business.
    It has made a world of difference.
    Meeting people and talking about other aspects of what’s happening in the world really gave me perspective what is actually important to me. It also gave me a better understanding of all the advice I have been reading on the blog (I find it so difficult to share feelings so I tend to read more than participate in the discussions).One step at a time. I still have to make a decision on how I am going to deal with hubby not talking about the polygamy situation.
    You are doing exceptionally well in dealing with the test put to you. Keep strong!!!

  • KA126

    May 6, 2013

    My CoCo’s flight got Cancelled somehow!!!! I am concerned and trying not to laugh at the same time. In sha Allah she will get here. Too funny/sad. I can’t stop myself!!!

  • Arica

    May 6, 2013

    Asalam alaykim ladies,

    I have been reading, but not commenting because my husband has been taking the computer with him to work and I HATE typing on my Kindle. Inshallah everyone is doing good! So, update on the lady who has been staying with us….yes, she is still here!! However, she has met someone and plans, Inshallah to be married. He came and visited her for 2 days and they really hit it off. He has gone home to visit family for a month, so after he comes back they will inshallah, have a nikah!! It will be nice to have my house back!!! I have not been working for a couple of months now and i am getting pretty bored, trying to think of some little side businesses to make some extra money. There are a couple clothing ideas that I had in mind, but I am so afraid to have a business that caters to Muslim women. I know it sounds bad, but my friend had a store but had to close because she could not make it work even though it was in a spot with many muslims and no competition. It was across the street from the masjid. The problem is that it is a majority Indo/Pak and they want to barter down to nothing. She had a beautiful jilbab that was all blingy and priced for 129.00, a lady came in asked how much and she is like 12.900 but i can give it to u for 100.00…well the lady is like how about 20.00!!! Really??? Just the other day she brought a suitcase full of hijabs to a get together and was selling them for 5.00 each!! So cheap and they were very nice. Well, needless to say, some women wanted to only pay 3.00!! She was soooo mad!!

    @Gail, I just cashed out my 401k since I stopped working and put a little aside and got a snow cone machine…my dream appliance!! LOL….Some people spend 400.00 on a phone, i got myself a snow cone maker!! Well, I was curious, i have done some premade one’s just ice and thrown them in the freezer to add the flavor later. Is this what you do? Also, I ordered a case of the flower cups, cuz i hate those paper ones. Have u seen them? If u don’t i think using those would allow u to charge more. Where do u buy your concentrates? I just did a recipe for a syrup using koolaid and it turned out great!! And waaay cheaper than the ones you buy. 4 cups of sugar, 1 1/2 cups of water and 2 packets of kool aid will make 1 qt of syrup. I have been thinking of pre making and selling the snocones wholesale to the trucks and small biz around me. Inshallah!!

    Other than that I am trying to stay busy….I need to get back to walking at the park everymorning, I was doing 2 miles after I dropped Sumaya off from school. I hate not having motivation…it sucks!!!

    Oh….it looks like we may be shipping off to Tunisia for the summer. I am freaking out. I have real anxiety issues and this will be really scary!!!

  • J

    May 6, 2013

    Asalamu Alaykum Everyone

    MashaAllah you guys are so funny. I love reading all the posts during my sleepless nights.

    Sarata please keep me updated on your situation and how everything works out for you. InshaAllah you will handle everything much better than me. May Allah make it easy.

    As for me..I have my ups and downs. I guess am in the self pity stage, I feel like I failed some where in my deen. I though I was stronger. Then I get sad and angry cause I think of those shows what are they called Sisters Wives and some other show cant remember. These people embrace this so much because they feel it’s right and this is what God made permissible. We have the truth, I just feel like a failure, I think wow did I just fail this test that Allah put in my way. SubhaanAllah I was having a hard time with these thoughts in the morning, listening to a nasheed and crying a river. ugh. sad sad sad It’s like every time I feel at peace, I feel even worse a moment later, does that even make sence.

    I think my co is now having a hard time. I heard she is feeling very jealous and upset or whatever. And she wasnt expecting me to be so distant, I told her from day one I would try and try to be nice but best friends I dont think so. And i said I need space. I never made promises to anyone about nothing Feels like all my words are now being used against me as if I forced them to marry. I did not know I would experience a such a trying time mashaAllah. He finally told my mother in law, she was very dissapointed. She said it was not the right time. My mil is pretty understanding she has been a co herself, she is just trying very hard to give me emotional support in her own way because she not lovie dovie woman. But this has truly brought me and her closer together. As this is her son, but she has taken so much to my feelings and that is so special to me, she jokes and says shes a decade and a half older than you dont worry lol. Am a stay at home mom, she is encouraging me to apply for a part time job, so I can feel more independace. I rather deal with this than God forbid deal with sickness, or death. Yup just a total self pity party going on man. I have been blessed with so much, and I feel ungrateful for not being able to cope, is this normal?

  • Aishah 2013

    May 6, 2013

    I have felt a little shaytan playing with me.felt like sending copy of this weeks sports illustrated about gay athelete to Co (without my name)its a very good article.my “Muslim life coach”confirmed yep that’s shaytan playing with you.so I wont and will exercise continued patience and..pray for more patience

  • Kim

    May 6, 2013

    @Ana, hope you have a good sleep, we’ll chat later insha Allah happy

    I see myself in you as well! When I first came to 411 f course I read your story and the roller coaster you went through and found myself saying ME TOO! a lot!. At that time everything was still raw with me and I was still trying to wrap my head around the enormity of what was going on. I was also in the throes of that “OMG I LOVE HIM SO SO MUCH” which was at war with the “OMG HE IS WITH ANOTHER WOMAN HOW CAN I ACCEPT THIS”, but despite that contradiction it was, in my mind, kind of an exciting new journey and I was bound to succeed. But N was trippin every other day and bringing all that to me and I was like NO don’t kill my buzz, lady…lol..so weird. I had no idea then how to detach. Alhamdulillah I not only do now, but it totally happened without me even trying. Now I’m freakin coaching my husband on how to relate with N better and cooking food for him to take to her to share and now I send food out of a genuine friendly gesture, not to “show off” like I used to, as cooking isn’t one of her strong suits.

    The book “From Monogamy to Polygyny – a Way Through” has a good section about “intense love” that describes this syndrome in wives whose husbands take or are about to take another wife. I poo-pooed it when I read the book….how can “intense love” for your husband be a bad thing? Oh, but it sure is, especially in a polygamous marriage. I know that now. Marta, if you haven’t read that book, I highly recommend you do! It’s written by wives in plural marriage.

    Funny though; I’m not sure I ever actually HAD that over the top “intense love” for M, but I sure had “intense possession” of him, which I think was mistaken for “intense love”. I was super territorial. MINE MINE MINE! My actions then spoke far more of “possession” than of love, when I look back on it. Either way, I don’t feel that whatsoever anymore. It’s wonderful. I love him, definitely. Would be heartbroken to lose him, absolutely. But it’s all in a different kind of perspective now and it’s SO liberating I cannot tell you.

    I do still feel just a tad insecure maybe, as their romance heats up (they have a date tonight), she really wants to see me face to face and I’m balking. The reason is my appearance – I totally let myself go these few months since I saw her last. The weight gain, the indifferent care of my hair or skin or whatever. Why it’s so important to look good in front of N is beyond me but there it is tongue She knows I’ve been struggling with my weight since we talked about it on the phone. M suggested I go hang out at N’s place because she lives in an area with beautiful walking trails and her building has a gym in it. Eh, maybe later.

    @Maureen…wow I had no idea you were so sick! Dua’s over here for you and your munchkin!!!! My daughter had a lot of issues with her pregnancy with nausea, no appetite, vomiting, and she said the worst headaches she had ever had. Sounds like an imbalance of some kind. Dehydration also. Do you have any chronic medical issues that may have contributed to this? Get better and check in when you can, dear! Much love!

  • ana

    May 6, 2013

    @Kim, As Salaamu Alaikum,

    What you described to Marta, regarding yourself, is exactly what I went through as well. It’s amazing how when you speak of yourself I see myself too. You have a knack for summing it up so nicely and precisely. I sit back and think – wow. You are amazing happy

    Insha Allah, I’ll be back a bit later to speak with Hannah, Marta and everyone. I have to see Alex off to work, and then climb back into bed, Insha Allah.

    @Everyone,

    Have a wonderful day or night, whichever it is in your part of the world. happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    May 6, 2013

    @Maureen, Wa Alaikum As Salaam

    For some strange reason some posts are going into spam. I found yours and Marta’s in there. Alhumdulliah, I looked. Sometimes I get complacent, and don’t check spam. Insha Allah, I will try to check it more often. If a post/comment goes missing on anyone, know that it may be in spam, so all is not lost. I’ve been having some problems with posts as well since the blog is protected from copying.

    Maureen, I am sadden to hear you are in the hospital. I had been thinking of you. I will make duah for you and keep you and your baby in my prayers. Try to remember Allah swt much and keep your spirits high. Know that Allah is with you always big hug I look forward to hearing from you when you feel better. happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Maureen

    May 6, 2013

    @My post just disappeared after hitting the ‘Submit’ botton. Grrrrr angry
    Well, I’ll give it another try as soon as I can focus again.
    Till then, take care ‘n have a fine day/night.
    M

  • Maureen

    May 6, 2013

    Assalamu Alaykum ‘n Good Morning Everyone,
    Just stopping by to say Hi n thank you for all your lovely replies.

    I was willing to get back to each of you yesterday afternoon, since I was having a good afternoon ‘n feeling fine, but my hubby ‘n his 2 nephews came to spend the day with me, so I didn’t get to do anything at all, just relaxed ‘n enjoyed the family/hubby time happy

    In case you are inquiring into my whereabouts, I was hospitalized last Wed ‘n am still stuck in here for I do not know how long crying
    The baby is fine, alhamdu li Allah. It’s me who is not doing well angry
    The pregnancy is taking its toll on me ‘n it seems like I am getting weaker every day.
    I am still nauseous ‘n do feel weak ‘n can’t not eat due to lack of appetite ‘n the constant nausea.

    Anyway, I pray all of you ladies are just fine ‘n I promise to get in touch as soon as I can, insha Allah.
    The Internet connection is really miserable in here ‘n typing on my cell can be a challenge at times.

    Btw, I am going to know if it’s a boy or a girl this evening, insha Allah. Yay!! dancing
    (My gut feeling is telling me it will be a baby boy, insha Allah, but Allah SWT knows best).

    Take good care ladies ‘n keep the spirit up winking

    PS. Keep me ‘n my family in your prayers ‘n Duaa, please.

    Have a good day/night Everyone.

    big hug
    M

  • Gail

    May 6, 2013

    Ana,
    It was just a goof up but boy did I laugh so hard I cried when I read it.I couldn’t for the life of me figure out what Aishah and Kim were rambling on about until I scrolled back up and reread what I wrote.Oh boy what a goof up!

    Hannah,
    Welcome to the blog.

    Marta,
    Don’t worry to much we all go through these strange emotions.One nice thing about being a woman is waking up in a new world everyday!!

  • Kim

    May 5, 2013

    Wa Aleikum Asalaam Marta, and welcome happy

    It’s good to know you’re ok with things. I can certainly relate to the hard times as well as the ok…I think we all can, so you came to a good place with ladies who know how you feel.

    Now as to your question…I might get yelled at by a few in here but believe me when I say that it’s OK to not have the same love for your husband. In fact, I believe it’s healthy, and also the reason why you are ok with things. When we love too much, when we wrap our entire existence around our spouse, we’re bound for disappointment even if he isn’t ever polygamous. When he IS polygamous, it’s that much more important for our own sanity to take a step back from that intense kind of love.

    It happened with my husband and me, and I tell you it is THE best thing that could have happened. My husband and I were friends prior to marriage, and always related that way. It was only when he took another wife that suddenly this man became my obsession…because in my mind I was standing to lose him, so I hung on tight. Of course I wasn’t going to lose him, but I was determined to “out-love” him in a competitive way with my co-wife. Not good.

    Now, my husband and I are again best friends, albeit with much better communication than before he married his other. Where our marriage had gone stale, polygamy fixed it. We truly enjoy each other’s company without any BS. I love him dearly, but he’s not my everything, and obviously I’m not his everything. We’re not the romantic red hot passionate type, never were, but you bet I tried when this whole polygamy thing happened. I did some ridiculous out of character things LOL….

    Anyway, welcome, and insha Allah you will find much support and new friends here at 411 happy

  • Marta

    May 5, 2013

    Assalamoalaykum

    I have been first wife for a half year. It was agreed with me and I am feeling ok but sometimes it has been dificult. But now is good many days. I only am a bit sad because I don’t feel I love my husband as much as I use to. I miss love him as much. Is this normal? Can you give help how I can get stronger love for my husband again, without to be afraid or hurt? Thank you.

  • ana

    May 5, 2013

    @Everyone,

    We have a newcomer, Hannah. She was over at another thread http://polygamy411.com/polygamous-wives-are-they-friends/ I kindly ask you review the posts from Hannah and the responses there and we will continue over here on our most recent thread, so we all are on the same page, Insha Allah.

    @Gail,

    I just read your comment and I think you’ve got Aishah beat. blushing I was cracking up. Was it a Freudian slip? worried LOL

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Gail

    May 5, 2013

    Aishah and Kim,
    For the life of me I couldn’t figure out what u two gals were talking about until I scrolled back up to check out my post!!! OMG what a typoooo!!! ANA you still think we don’t need spell check?Come to think about it I don’t know if spell check could have saved me on that one.I meant to say all my Ducks in a roll but I think I might start using this new one instead.LOL

  • Kim

    May 5, 2013

    LOOL aishah I saw what Gail was getting in a row too….started heehawing away like a donkey but didn’t quite know how to point it out…tactfully, anyway…glad you did sis Aishah!

    I’m still giggling…yes I’m 12 tongue

  • Aishah 2013

    May 5, 2013

    Salam.Ana if you thought my phone mistake was funny check our Gaills typo.Gail what are you getting in a row?sorrywinking.weight loss…I have gained weight since working out exercising.course last year I was in the midst of the heartbreak diet.that will take pounds off.now parts of me have more curves.I am more”phat”!

  • Kim

    May 5, 2013

    @ Ana, I just went to Walmart and bought a scale. The heck with it. I don’t like them at all but if I don’t track my progress with hard numbers (because that’s how I roll), I won’t feel like I’m accomplishing anything. I also stopped by the craft section and got me a tape measure.

    As soon as I got home I set up the scale and hopped on. hooboy, the goodwill scale didn’t lie. The good news is, I’m down a pound and a half. During this rigid 2 week period of carb detox, if done right the weight loss will be swift and measureable daily. It will slow down later on.

    I also go by how my clothes fit and like you, I have a pair of “weight loss jeans” lol. Before I started I could only come within an inch and a half of buttoning them without laying down and sucking in. Now I can fasten them, sort of. I know much of it is water retention getting let loose, because I’m going to the bathroom much more than I used to, but I also have to take into account my menses is right around the corner, will start any second now. And I blow up like a balloon during this time. I bet once this time passes I will see real results – provided I stay on track!

    So….Mr. M has progressed to telling N “I love you” on the phone. I hear it, and there’s a tiny twist deep inside…can’t help that, it’s weird after this time of just him and me. Yet it still really doesn’t bother me like it did, say, a year ago. Alhamdulillah….I really pray they’ll succeed in this effort to reconcile and be truly happy.

  • Gail

    May 5, 2013

    Ana,
    I agree I don’t know either but I do feel change is in the air.I hope it will be a positive change.

  • Gail

    May 5, 2013

    Jenny,
    Yeah u are correct we deal pretty much the same way I don’t work out on the trucks because I have the kids and don’t want to drag them to much on the trucks just not my thing and hubby loves going out and selling and he does great at it.The inlaws same thing my job is to keep cotton candy made for the trucks and Mexican Hot chips and snowcones made up doesn’t seem like alot but making all the small things like the concentrates etc.. all takes time on the business side and I think it is a fair trade off.When hubby and I married I told him I wanted everything 50/50 and we have 3 acres of land that is in both our names.I don’t mean to sound like I am a beggar person or any of that but I do really worry about retirement and want a more secure future.Now how I am going to obtain that I am not really certain at this time because hubby has paid the money for the property in Pakistan and I am so upset about this u can’t imagine.He took my dream home money and just waited it I feel.I have told him time and time again I am so not freaking happy to give so much money and not get any say in where we purchase the property or how the home is built really I am sick and disgusted by it and I am to the point I don’t want nothing to do with Pakistan anymore.My inlaws OMG they have lived with us for the last 5 years so half of our marriage they have been with us.I have tried and tried to get rid of them and I swear the people our like roaches they don’t freaking take a hint and leave.I have screamed and pleaded with hubby to get rid on them but he is the problem he says if they go he goes and believe when I tell u I making myself ready for the day I no longer am financially dependent on him.The truth is I can’t stand his family or his moral and ethical views they disgust me to no end and this is my main tension.All those people care and talk about 24/7 is coming to America.Obviously it is a very touchy topic for me since he used me for a greencard and everyone else in his family is using me as a stepladder to get to USA.I swear if I could stop their immigrations I really would thats how disgusted I am with the entire mess.
    Hubby just yesterday said that if his brother gets a visit visa then he will marry him just to get his greencard.I was so angry inside and wanted to scream u are nothing but a b@st@rd and you will never change but I instead I just kept silent and took a mental note of him not changing and I need to hurry up and get all my dicks in a row pretty fast.
    The problem with my husband I am seeing is that he wants that I am dependent upon him for everything for some reason this makes him happy and he always says I should trust on him but the problem is everytime it is his way or no way and I can’t keep going like this or else I am going to go insane.

  • Jenny

    May 5, 2013

    @ Ana,

    It sure is a beautiful day, but hubby and I are trapped in the office. I have so many things to catch up from my last trip and I am trying to get ahead for this one.

    I will make sure to send you a bunch of pictures. I have some of the manatees when my daughters and I were diving I want to send to you. They are such gentle creatures and love to nudge you to get to scratch their bellies to remove the barnacles. Also, they love for you to pick the grass at the bottom of the river and they will eat it out of your hand. Recently, Florida made it a law that they are not to be touched, but they will swim up from behind you, plowing you in the rear. They do not like being ignored, so that law really isn’t a good one.

    I am going to have such a good time with my camera!! happy That was my biggest bargain. I got it on Black Friday. I never thought I would need such a fancy and expensive camera, but I am glad I got it because it takes awesome pictures.

  • ana

    May 5, 2013

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Peace to All, happy

    I hope everyone is enjoying themselves, and having a wonderfully good weekend. Alex and I’ve just been chilling in the house, relaxing, simply taking it easy. We haven’t left the abode. We’ve just been hibernating. I love weekends like this.

    I thank everyone for well wishing Alex and me a good vacation and anniversary, Insha Allah, all taking place this month. I know quite a few people who got married the same time of the year that Alex and I did. My mom was one. Yesterday, Alex and I got an invitation from one of his longtime childhood friends, inviting us to his daughter’s wedding. We had to decline because Alex’s niece is graduating law school on his and my anniversary, and a huge surprise party is planned for her. I am so excited about it all.

    @Jenny,

    Your vacation sounds amazing. I’m excited for you. Insha Allah, when you return and get some time, please email me some of the photos. I enjoy seeing the photos you send me. I feel as though I was there with you. Well, we soon shall see whether I’ll be a blog auntie again happy

    Jenny, hope your itch clears up really soon. Aspirin and the anti-biotic Penicillin give me an allergic reaction.

    @Bobti,

    I too was thinking that your husband sounds a bit tyrannical. He is very controlling. What bothers me is that you said he punishes you by leaving you from, I think you said, 6 days to 30, which is ludicrous. He apparently does make his own rules. I’ve always heard we’re not supposed to stop talking (be angry) to one another for more than three days. Nonetheless, I guess it is arbitrary for him.

    Bobti, Allah says oppression is worse than slaughter. Your husband seems to be an oppressor. Allah swt also tell us that when an oppressive wrong is done to us, we should NOT be cowed, but defend ourselves. It is a right you have to not accept oppression and defend yourself. Your husband does not conform to our religion/Islam – our way of life. He seems to dance to his own beat. You have no obligation to support him. It’s one thing like Gail said, if he is unemployed, and you help out. It’s okay if he’s supporting you as much as he can (with at least something) and you help. It’s another thing when he helps nada/zilch; you’re carrying the full weight and he abuses you (psychologically) on top it. Of course, you have the option to do it – support him.

    I think you need to sit down and ask yourself why you think you should accept the way your husband treats you. Some could say their husbands are kind, sensitive, patient, tolerant, generous, etc. What are his traits or what does he bring to the table to compensate for his shortcomings?

    Those are just some of my thoughts about the situation. I’m very glad you are here with us, Bobti, so, Insha Allah, we could all together help you sought it out. I think it is so cool you and Jenny are lawyers.

    @Kim,

    I avoid the scale at all cost. Getting on that thing only depresses me. The way I gauge weight loss is by a pair of my jeans – my weight loss jeans. I know I’m losing weight when I have to cuff them. I know I’m losing more when I have to add a belt to them. Then I know I’m where I want to be when they drop off me, not even a belt helps. happy

    @Gail,

    It sounds some type of change is in the making for you. I get how you feel and it seems a change is about to come. You just have to be patient and see where God takes you.

    @Sarata,

    I’m glad you were able to get away for a while and now you’re back with us. happy It will be interesting to see how all pan out with your friend, you and your husband. As the world turns

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Hilly

    May 5, 2013

    Assalamu Alaikum
    @Ana I know that you anniversary is soon, so happy anniversary to you. I pray that you and you hubby has many, many more lovely years together. I pray that your anniversary day will be a great one. Inshallah have a good weekend.

    @Maureen so glad to hear from u. I pray that everything with you and the pregnancy is going well. Thank you for your kind words. Doing better, just trying to be mindful of Allah swt. Inshallah I will be okay. It’s hard, but I have Allah swt to turn too. Inshallah my sister take care of yourself.

    @Jenny I hope you had a lovely vacation. I am doing better today alhumduiallah. Don’t really have any plans. Girls are just enjoying have their father home. The weather has been nice, so we have been trying to get to the park. I tried playing tennis with the girls, very funny moment. I will inshallah do it more when the girls are on summer vacation. Have a good weekend.

  • Kim

    May 5, 2013

    I think I understand the “laws” Bobti is referring to. Basically I think she outlined codes of conduct along with possibly a schedule.

    I have sort of the same thing going on, though I never sat down and formally drew up some kind of contract. I know I have boundaries of what I’ll accept and not accept this time around and I’ve verbalized some of it with M, though not yet with N. At this time I’m taking her word that she wants harmony with me and so far as backed it up with her words and actions. Though of course we’re still in the stage where they’re “courting” so to speak and so when polygamy actually does happen, and all that goes with it, we may be seeing a return of issues. Hopefully not but I know that’s not realistic.

    I’m trying to pound into my stubborn husband’s head that he needs to approach her differently than he has in the past. I mean, when she seems to be starting to get agitated, sit her down and kindly, gently ask her what is wrong. What can he do to help? Instead of shutting down and getting defensive as he is inclined to do, get at the heart of the matter. Like a common theme of their problems is, she doesn’t feel “special”. Ask her, “what can I do to help you understand that you are special?” instead of getting irritated and saying all brusquely, “I’m here, aren’t I??? WTF is your problem???” because that doesn’t help. He is not dealing with me over there…he HAS to approach her in a totally different way than he does with me.

    Yeah, I’m kind of coaching him in trying to make his relationship with N work LOLOL…who’da thunk it tongue

  • Sarata

    May 5, 2013

    @J
    Salaam & thanks for the reply. Yeh I’m
    Thinking its gonna have to stay a secret at first at least.
    My mum is on no place emotionally to even try to comprehend this bless her.
    Well done for being civil with ur co wife – sounds like you kept it together well.
    I know what y mean about already getting much less family time than youd like – splitting it in half is gonna be a struggle for me too but In’sha Allāh we will all be better people for the tests.

    @Ana
    Walaikumsalaam wa ramatullahi wa barakatu
    Yes I’m still here lol.
    I’ve been in uk visiting my family for over a month & got back last night, so today was the first time
    I saw my friend since he asked her.
    We didn’t speak about that yet tho – the families still have to their cultural bits of verifying before the final decision is made but it’s looking highly likely it will go ahead.

    In answer to ur Qs, I’ve been married since 2006, Muslim since 2008 Alhamdulillah.
    We moved to Africa late 2011 & have a 2 year old son Alhamdulillah.

    I have known my friend since then pretty much. We became close quite quickly as she so so sincere and a beautiful person Mashallah.

    I honestly feel if I can keep my emptions in check, we could make this work.
    She is a genuine person as is my hubs, so In’sha Allāh we try to do everything for the sake of Allah then leave the rest to Him.

  • Gail

    May 5, 2013

    Bobti,
    I am curious What country is your husband and cowife from? It sounds like he is another typical Pakistani male.It helps I think to know what culture one is dealing with since alot of the males tend to follow their culture more than Islam .My husband is from Pakistan and he and his exwife treated me basically the same way for years.I was the sweet one and as my husband says I am simple meaning stupid I can only assume which I totally agree with because I am very stupid to let him have oppressed me the way he has in the past and it is still going on in the present and I can only assume he will continue to do because it is his nature.It is also true I fight for my rights and I can also be very demanding and fight to get my way.As I am getting older I am really getting tired of all the drama and just want to focus on me and my children more.I love my husband but something is changing drastically inside of me to where I don’t want my life focused on him anymore.The reason being because he never sees anything my way and doesn’t care about my feelings or what I want for the family.All he cares about is his parents and siblings oh he says he cares about our kids and I am sure he does in his own strange way but his caring is just bringing money home and dumping in my lap.It takes more than money to make a marriage and a good husband.Emotionally he is just not there for me.Well I should rephrase that he is there for me as long as it suits his agenda but boy go against his agenda and he will go silent treatment on me for days.In Pakistan he just all together leaves me all day and comes home only at night to sleep.My problem is I don’t feel emotionally close to my husband and although he says he cares my heart says he cares very little.
    Bobti I have figured out u can’t make people care for you know matter how hard u try sad to say.I could tell u some really insane stories about my ex cowife if u want to talk about backbiting and manipulation OMG and to make matters worse she is still doing it.She insisted hubby divorce me and bring her to USA and although I don’t blame her for wanting that agenda at first(even it was very nasty and morally wrong)after she met me in person and everything I have done for her children you would think she would be more than ok with me but NOOOOOOO!!! So I can pretty much assure you that until Allah changes your cowife heart u better watch your back because u will forever be pulling a knife out of it.
    Another thing I want to mention if u are supporting your husband financially I would stop it ASAP but thats just me.I would never financially support a man who continues not to work and in your case went behind your back and got a second wife.Thats insanity on your part in my opinion just being frank.He should be supporting u not the other way around.I understand a man being unemployed for awhile and helping him as a wife until he is back on his feet but not a forever deal now way.I know u have been married for only 3 years and alot of your anxiety is because u haven’t been married so long I think.3 years into my marriage is when all hell broke loose and I found out hubby was hiding a child from me(although it would be years before the total truth was out and he was keeping his 1st wife secret in Pakistan)She was around me all the time because she was his cousin and he made that as excuses for her being around.
    Oh one more thing if u are worried about your husband giving u or her 3rd talaqs I wouldn’t worry about that to much I doubt he would really completely bite the hands that feeds him OFF.
    Also what are with all these made up laws u are talking about?I have never heard of such a thing unless u are talking about a schedule?
    One last thing how far are u willing to let your husband push u around.In my case it has become out of control and I am changing myself and thinking how am I going to make positive changes for myself and my children for our future.Will u accept a third and fourth cowife?Will u accept your cowife to keep trying to get rid of u with her manipulations?You need to sit and think and draw a line as to how far u are willing to go.Now granted I am not muslim but my husband and cowife are and everyone in my life is Muslim so I understand it pretty well now and I would venture to say you have rights not to let anyone walk on you.What good are you to anyone if u are upset and feel neglected all the time?So if I were u I would sit down drink a cup of tea of coffee and draw a line on how u want to to be treated and write everything down and from the time u write it down on paper don’t let hubby or anyone else cross the lines u have come up with.
    I am in the process of doing this myself.I myself now see I need to draw lines and makes sure knowone oversteps the boundaries I have put in place.I myself will be working on my own personal financial boundaries with you it will need to be emotional boundaries.Anyway I hope I gave u something to think about and keep posting on the blog you will get so much great advice and emotional support.

  • Kim

    May 5, 2013

    Ok am back…wow that was needed. It’s sunny and cool like spring oughta be. Alhamdulillah. Insha Allah we’ve seen the backside of winter at last.

    All right Bobti…I saw, strangely, a lot of both myself and “N” in your words. N was hellbent on breaking up my marriage, though she went about it in very subtle ways; so subtle, in fact, it wasn’t caught onto at first. On the surface she was good…for example, she never once tried to get M to stay beyond his required time. When it was his time to leave her house and come to mine, she made damn sure he got here. What she did instead was try to guilt him. How he roped her in and led her to believe he was single (he didn’t tell her he was married, didn’t tell her he wasn’t…she just assumed he wasn’t)…took advantage, in her view, of her desire for a man. Made him feel guilty whenever he came back here to my house, that she never expected to be a wife with a “#”. (as if I ever did?) With me, she would smile and stab, then twist the knife. Meaning, she would talk all sweet to me, calling me ukhti and aapa and this and that, then tell me details about their life together I sure had no business or desire knowing.

    There was one-upmanship going on all over the place (from me as well…I fully admit that). She complained to me about some real or imagined wrongdoing, twisted my words or his into something totally out of proportion (so did I though!). She hinted that if he likes having 2 women, he’ll go out and get a third and that would be a dealbreaker for her. She said I had to be lacking in some way for him to seek her out, so he’ll do it again, and again. She called me a white b****. You name it. Her goal was to prey on my insecurities which of course were running rampant at that time since he went out and got with her, and to harass me until I gave up and left M. She damn near succeeded, because I was supersensitive and overreacted too.

    IDK how many times I told him I never asked for this…this…PERSON to be a part of my life and I didn’t want it. If being married to him meant dealing with her, count me OUT.

    There’s more but I’ll leave it there as I think you get the idea.

    Now…as my husband said last week, in order for this to work, everyone HAS to be on the same page. I will add to that, based on my own experience as well as these ladies here….if you’re not on the same page and you don’t see any possibility of coming to some sort of mutual care and understanding (Allahu alim, though), then DETACH. DO YOU, and let them do themselves. If your husband is lopsided and/or manipulative in his dealings with you two, his problem.

    If Co wants to play games, cut her off and let her play elsewhere. Don’t be her fitnah punching bag. In my own experience, I didn’t come to any real and enduring peace with being polygamous until I told myself ENOUGH and realized that I was taking on way more emotionally and mentally than I needed to from them. I put into practice so much of what I’d learned here, about how we cannot control anyone else, what they do/say/think….and in the grand scheme what they do/say/think doesn’t matter anyway. We can only do US. And be good to US first and foremost.

  • Jenny

    May 5, 2013

    @ Gail,

    Honey, you need to start getting things in your name! Any woman that relies on a man to do right by her is not the sharpest knife in the drawer. The days of June and Beaver Cleaver are long over. That went out with our grandparents. Just look at all the stories we hear how men handle their polygamous marriages! They marry and divorce like they are trading baseball cards! Are you not listening to the stories here? Every time I hear a new one, it is like an index card that gets filed away in my brain! Any woman that doesn’t have assets in her name is going to end up discarded, sitting outside a masjid, church, or shul (we are all religions here) begging for charity! We see the number of men who follow polygamy humanely is quite small in number.

    I was so scared to marry my husband (I won’t lie, he was Muslim and I was scared of that. Sorry, being honest.) I put all these stipulations on him thinking it would scare him off. It didn’t scare him off and he conceded to my demands, one being everything is in my name. If my husband wanted to discard me, the only thing he will be leaving with in our marriage is his freedom! When we first married, the Pakistani girls would come in our office and try to flirt with him. My husband, the big lug that he is didn’t realize it and would have been repulsed if he did realize it. Anyway, I let them know the joke is on them if he ever took another wife because he has no money. This wife here has every penny. laughing. I was criticized many times here for my belief in what I did, but I can assure you, this chickie won’t end up a beggar with nothing. Hubby and I joke that I own his a$$ seven ways to Sunday! The truth is that I do. His doing that when we married told me a lot about his credibility and the kind of man he is. To do something like that, honestly, if it was me, I would have told him to jump in a lake. So what did he get in return? The most faithful wife a man could ever hope to have. Even if he is dead a$$ wrong, I am in his corner always. I took the very little he had and built it up to many properties and businesses. Of course, I always tell him it could not have been done without him, after all, he is the president. laughing. But he knows. winking Now, who is really the Master??? I could never think of hurting him after all the trust he blindly placed in me. Maybe he was the smartest one in the end…. Never once did we even joke about the “d” word (divorce) no matter how bad it got.

    I totally understand why you blew your stack. I loathe having company and it seems to me, they have overstayed their welcome. Is it possible to get them in their own place? How long are you stuck with them? With my husbands family, my tolerance only extends to his oldest son, daughter and his nephews. Can’t handle more than that. Everyone else drives me nuts. I don’t do this group living thing at all and I am ever so thankful he never wanted to bring mommy here. Good lord, with all the stories I hear of MILs, no thank you!

    I don’t think the quiet treatment is a Paki thing. Hubby doesn’t do that to me, we are rather fond of our fights. The other Pakis I know (some married to American Jews) I never see argue. My neighbor doesn’t argue with his wife either. The only opinion I can offer is my neighbor has two brothers with “difficult” wives (I wonder if they call me difficult behind my back too??? Hmmmm….). I know them well and I have never seen the men argue back. Actually, the men are rather hen pecked, so I don’t see the silent treatment working. Maybe it is just a bi-polar thing or he naturally withdraws himself. I know I give hubby the cold shoulder when he annoys me. We had a argument yesterday and I went on strike, came home, took a nap. I left my phone in my purse, in the living room, because I knew he would call. I slept for an hour, woke up and had six missed calls from him. See, little spats, great make up sex! winking

    Gail, you must have a lot of compatiblities with your husband or you would not have been married for so long. Take me and hubby, we are polar opposites. We can’t stand each others music, our personalities differ, so many things. We both like funny movies and food. Our businesses is our life. Anything with money, legal, business strategy, buy/sell all rests on me. I really do not enjoy talking to people and he is amazing in business meetings. Sales, I’m great, but when it comes down to making someone do something, he is the master. I see him pull off things that just leave me scratching my head. Instead of working against each other, we segmented things so the ship sails smoothly. If you were ever in a business setting with us, you will see it clearly. I’ll do the talking up to a point, then I hand the floor over to him and it works out great. I am sure you guys have it too.

    @ Bobti,

    I wanted to say welcome! I too am a lawyer. What type of law do you practice? One of my major faults is I am a very direct person and have no tolerance for bullshit. Please keep in mind I am not Muslim, so if what I am about to say is wrong in your faith, please forgive me in advance.

    Why must your marriage have “laws???” The way I understand what you are saying is that he is some kind of a tyrant and you are going through heroic measures to please him. I see red flags everywhere! Is he abusive to you? If not physically, what about mentally? I have this mental picture from the “Island of Dr. Mereau” where all through the movie you hear this mad scientist tell his subjects, “You must be punished because you have broken the law!” Ok, I’m showing my age now! laughing

    I would also stop supporting him. I would tell him when he grows a pair of rocks, becomes a man again and amply provides for his harem, you would then be happy to revisit the topic of laws again. Sorry for being blunt. I just get very angry when I see the women here being taken advantage and I must speak up when I think it is going on. Maybe he gravitates to older women because he sees you both as mother figures??? Something to ponder….

    Ok, now that I said my peace, I would like to hear more about you!

    @ Ana,

    I wish you tons of fun for your anniversary! I know you can’t talk about what your doing, but I have a feeling that many spa treatments and beaches are in your future! happy

    Yesterday we firmed up our travel plans. We leave Saturday night. Spending a few days in Rome, then off to Vienna, then Prague. After the IVF and I rest a couple of days, then off to Poland to Aushwitz again (those who don’t know my father and bubbe, grandmother, were liberated from there). After we leave Prague, then we are going to Zurich for a couple of days, then coming home. A couple of new countries on this trip. Our other choices were London and Spain, but I like this trip plan. No snow this time, so we should carry out as planned, G-d willing.

    I can’t wait to go to the Vatican! I want to see all the art work! Even though it is not my religion, I have a deep respect and love of history. Italy has been at the top of my list for some time, same with Switzerland. I have several big boxes of batteries and extra memory cards. Plan on having so much fun with the camera!

    I got a very bad sinus infection the past few days and I had to see my doctor as flying with a sinus infection would not have been pleasant. At 70,000 feet, my head would have been sucked in like a raisin! I now feel better and it is gone, but the problem is the antibiotic I took has given me the nastiest rash all over my body! It looks like I have measles and I can’t stop itching! Yes, I am taking Benedryl and got the antibiotic changed. Funny thing is I’ve taken this antibiotic my entire life and never had a problem until now. Hubby is teasing me I got fleas! Can’t stop itching!!!

    @ Hilly,

    Hope you are having a good time! I know the Skpe thing is hard. In my case, we Skype together. We sit on the sofa together and call the kids, I know, different situation. I would do as I told my husband years ago (before I could speak Urdu). I was honest with him. He was making calls to Pakistan in front of me and his thinking was to show me he had nothing to hide because everything was in the open, which is probably what your husband is thinking. I had to explain to him that every time I heard a call (even with his kids/mother because I didn’t know Urdu and my mind would go crazy) I felt like I was diving in a pool of boiling oil. He got that and never did it again. I used to subconsciously give him alone time, such as coming into the office an hour later, going downstairs to warm the car while he finished getting ready to go to the office…. Problem solved. Are you doing or going anywhere special while he is home?

  • Kim

    May 5, 2013

    ^that should read that I hit that number BEFORE I started (my way of eating and exercise regimen) LOL…stupid laptop is SO touchy and deletes words at random. Almost as annoying as typing on the Android, UGH….

  • Kim

    May 5, 2013

    Asalaam Aleikum and good morning/evening all,

    Feeling no motivation to work out today…got to love PMS tongue NOT. Just want to curl up on the sofa with M’s heating pad and eat chocolate all day LOL..even knowing that exercise will alleviate the symptoms isn’t working. But I gotta get ‘er done…slacking off once is going to lead to twice and pretty soon I’ll be right back where I was.

    I jumped on a scale yesterday at Goodwill when I was in there browsing. I don’t own a scale at home. What I saw stunned me. I only hope that scale is defective because if it’s not, I hit a number I never in a million years thought I would. If I can assume this week I had any positive results in weight loss, that means I definitely crossed it I started. OMG.

    Throughout high school I was around an 8. At my lowest, in my 20s and after 2 kids, I wore a size 2 to 4. I got back to a 5/6 after kid #3. An 8 to a 10 after kid #4. Those numbers are light years from where I am now. How did I get to this point???

    If I can get down to a single digit size again, that’s good enough for me. Or anything without a “teen” in it LOL! I have to account for my age also….I’m close to the half-century mark now.

    Bobti, sis, I want to reply to what you’ve said about your co trying to sabotage your marriage, having been there myself. But I AM gonna go throw on the exercise clothes and sneakers and pump up the volume on Pandora or I won’t get it done. It’s warming up out there and I want to get outside and enjoy it at last! Be back soon insha Allah happy

  • Gail

    May 5, 2013

    Ana,
    I should mention we have the business in both are names but hubby actually runs the business and I stay home with the kids.He is the one that actually goes and works and brings in the money.So you can say I am a stay at home mom for the most part.I make stuff to sell on our trucks but other than that I don’t really deal with the operations although I do know how to run the business if I needed to.I just wanted to clarify I am more a stay at home mom than actually working.

  • Gail

    May 5, 2013

    Ana,
    I think something is just not right with me.This last week has been really hard on me.Hubby is over his silent treatment but I actually blew up on him and my father inlaw yesterday big time.My husband asked me to read immigration papers for his brothers daughter.I don’t know but when immigrations forms come they pi$$ me off so bad.Yesterday I could not control after hubby had been a jerk to me the this entire week I just felt how dare he ask me to read his nieces immigration papers.Sooo I blew up started telling my father inlaw just what I thought about him and his bullcraps.
    I flat told him I wanted my money back and it was a huge mistake to agree to build the new joint family home.Obviously hubby blew up at me again.It was huge disaster to say the least.
    I feel emotionally at a loss in my life to be honest,I see the kids and I don’t want divorce and I do love my husband BUTTT something is emotionally just not right with me.I like my inlaws but yet at the same time the drive me insane from being in our everyday life 24/7.Hubby is an A$$ when they are here.I don’t want to live alone but at the same time I don’t want to keep with this same life I am living.Hubby doesn’t care what I want or need as long as he gets what he wants and it’s killing me because my wants and needs have to do with the children education and housing.My husband always says I am not happy and it is true I’m not.Tonight he called me simple and that just infuriated me to pieces.He laughed thought is was cute I on the underhand considered it an insult of huge proportions.
    I have never felt more wrongly matched with a person than I do with my husband.
    Oh also another thing on the way home from the grocery store he said he wished he had one brother here to help him to work and make money.I asked him about his little brother when is his interview with embassy?He said he was not certain then said if he gets visa he will marry him here with anyone just to get immigration.I took a mental note of that because he claims he has changed but he hasn’t his thinking truly disgust me beyond words.He has no empathy for woman in general and If the truth be told he has only use for me to raise the kids thats it.
    Ana my fear is if I stay with him and not work I can be in serious problem in the future.Small chance but still chance he may divorce me or he may just stay away from me.I don’t feel my future is good with my husband because he is so money driven in his mind.All his family think about is immigration.I can’t for the life of me deal then as the whole family disgust me because of this.I truly have decided I will never return to Pakistan as I don’t trust my husband for my best future.The sad thing is all I want is for us to live alone and raise are kids without the inlaws in our everyday lives but I know as long as they live it is never going to happen and that makes me think I need to become more independent on my own self.

  • Gail

    May 5, 2013

    Maureen,
    Thanks so much for all your well wishes and prayers I need all I can get.How have u been doing?
    I hope all is going well for you also.

  • Bobti

    May 5, 2013

    Salaam alykum

    Shokran all for the kind responses….

    The marriage with No 2 is 1 year now…so honeymoon is over
    The marriage with No 1, me is 3 years now

    The worst is over… the past year was a horror movie

    We have just a month ago started sharing again with a “law” mostly written by me with rules…and my husband who added some stuff which he was not pleased with her to enable him to “control” her after he found out who she really was and where she came from…however he still sees just the good in her…she is manipulative and control freak….as well as selfish (she say it herself)…she did not accepted me as she thought I was history when he married her and then I appeared again (after he talaaq me and took me back) and she made it very clear to us all she accept only to make him happy…all her actions was to break up my marriage…until the second talaaq….then he was with her continuous for 2 months…she did not fell pregnant and he discover all what Allah needed to show him….

    Then miraculously he took me back for a second time….now we are on our final last leg…

    He talaaq her once too…and the condition to take her back was to accept sharing with me and not to break up our marriage….so she agree and said she “loves” me….

    Until a few days ago…when she, being my “friend” and “loves” me hurt me for not saying “thank you” for gifts and stuff I sent her as she needed it…but I was wrong to expect a “thank you”…it is not Islamic…

    Being both of us not knowing much about Islam and how to behave as Muslim women…it makes it all difficult…I am slightly more advanced in my Muslim studies and know a little bit more and now my expectations of her is high and she fails me….but I had good advice “not to mix Islam with people”…

    I don’t have a mentor/coach…so I try to do it myself, which is not a good thing…as I have to do research on the internet on how to behave as a Muslim wife and as a Muslim in general…

    My husband has become more of a Muslim as before and we have a strong bond in religion, which is saving our marriage…

    I find it difficult to see the good and the good intentions in No.2 as all her actions does not meet “good” when it comes to me…as she continue hurting me with her “words”.

    I seem to be sensitive and then over react…It feels I have to defend myself all the time and keep on being the loser, else as a Muslim I just have to let them both to oppress me and I just keep quite and swallow the hurt and make salaat… I wonder sometimes if that is what Islam is all about…to be oppressed and to be thrown with stones all the time…as she backbites me and he get lost in her “words”… and me that get the “punishment”. (He love dishing out punishments for non-muslim law items on the list of his “law” / rules)

    The law says no contact from the wives after 21:00 – I replied to an email of hers just after 21:00 and I was punished for that – a day, which was a public/bank holiday without contact with him.

    No contact with him makes me absolutely crazy! He does not care to find out if I am ok, whether I have food in my house, whether I am sick or not….nothing – he says he has no obligation to contact me when he is with her – and she counts the minutes when he calls me and she performs about it – so to please her – he just ignore me…the feeling of him not caring as I am dependent on his emotional support.

    I think I am insecure about our marriage and I lose focus on Islam in these times…the test is to return to Allah and focus on Allah – and he on the other side escape responsibilities towards me, cause Allah takes care of me, so why would he care to find out if I am ok..

    Writing all this it seems such small issues which feels soooo big at the time when it happens..does a Muslim wife has to be cold skin like a reptile and no heart/feelings and just take all the hurt and keep your face on the floor?

    After difficult comes ease yes….how do I handle hurt which feels extreme for me?

    Allah knows best

  • Gail

    May 5, 2013

    bobti,
    Welcome to the blog!!!! I think you will really like it here and find the blog very inspiring and helpful.
    I also agree with aishah in the fact that you should distance yourself from your cowife it really does seem to me she is against you to be frank otherwise she would be sending hubby to you and trying to be a peacemaker if u ask me.As far as hubby now that he has taken a second wife and is acting negatively towards you I would cut him off financially but that is just me.I also agree with Kin I think if everyone is agree then it is fine to all live in one home.My husband and excowife and I all lived off and on for years under the same roof.Hope u are feeling better after finding the blog!!!

  • ana

    May 4, 2013

    @Aishah,

    Men do get all happy, smiling and laughing when their women are together. I think it does make them feel like a king. You should have seen Alex when his ex-wife and I were together at his mom’s house, following his mom’s death. People would walk in and he’d point to me and say, “This is my wife” and he’d point to her and say, “And this is my ex-wife.” You should have seen the responses, the look on the people faces. It was comical. laughing

    @Bobti,

    I agree with Aishah; even if your husband is upset or angry with you for some reason, he still should give you your time. He’s still expected to be in your home. If he is displeased with you, it is no reason for him to leave your home. As Aishah said, he could go sleep on the couch, if he doesn’t want to sleep in the bed with you. Are you sure he doesn’t look for reasons to leave your home, and go be with her? He needs to exercise patience and tolerance, knowing that you are going through a lot in trying to cope with this lifestyle. You may have to learn to let him do him, get angry and leave, as you don’t want to be at his beck and call, trying to please him so he won’t get upset or angry and he does so anyhow. It could have very little to do with you, and more to do with his desire to be with her. You’d know better than any of us. How long did you say they’ve been married? Three months or longer now? They probably are only in the “honeymoon” stage. I don’t know how she feels good about herself, knowing he is supposed to be with you, but is there with her. If she feels good about it, it’s due to some disease in her heart.

    Does he collect disability, unemployment, pension, or something, or nothing, but simply doesn’t work happy

    Anyhow you look at it, you MUST remember that Allah swt sees and knows all things. He sees and knows exactly what your husband and his other are doing. They may think they are getting away with something, but they may only be getting respite. They don’t know what may come. Allah knows best. Just keep doing what you know you must to stay in the good graces of Allah swt and you will be just fine. happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Aishah 2013

    May 4, 2013

    Ana its all good.haven’t been able to blog on my tablet since those changes took place (ill have my”Muslim life coach”as I call her look at it this week.could not ask hub to look at it.blogging is my own private outlet.sure he would not like.but sure I would not have progressessed as much without theblog!)as long as phone works I’m good…I was thinking about the husbands wanting friendship between wives which might not happen…I think in my case my hub may grow to dislike parts of me (sure he does overall love me)if I stand firm on where I am he may want validation for his cause or his choice of her…if she does leave it will be because she planned to leave but I have a feeling I would be blamed for “not being welcoming or whatever”or for asking too many questions(normal ones I would say)I’m only responsible for my actions!actually in this case I would say I’m the reality and she’s the fantasy….not my night.time to find reading or a movie!

  • Kim

    May 4, 2013

    LOL I caught the “Bobtail” autofill/autocorrect too LOLOL….gotta love these phones. The first thing I did with both ‘droids I’ve had is turn that sucker OFF. Ever see some of the autocorrect “fails” people put out on the web? There’s a website out there where people contribute the funniest stuff. Some is highly inappropriate but HILARIOUS nonetheless. I never wanted to be eligible for autocorrect fail wall of shame, so that bad boy gets disabled pronto LOL

  • ana

    May 4, 2013

    Oh, Aishah, oh, oh rolling on the floor

    Some kinda weird spell check took over for sure loooool – “Bobtail” – really!!! I can’t stop laughing, Aishah oh, my goodness I think that was the biggest, longest, hearty laugh I’ve had in a long time. sigh Thank you Aishah, or I should thank Allah for your phone looool.

    @Bobti,

    We have a lot of fun here too a lot of times. Don’t get me wrong; we freak out on one another occasionally, as well. We usually bounce back quickly though.

    @Fatima,

    So, Insha Allah, your guest will leave tomorrow. I’m sure it will be a sigh of relief for you to get your home back the way you like it happy

    @Aishah, I’m still laughing over here laughing – not at you – at the phone. My phone drives me crazy at times. Takes me 20 mins to fix a typo. The little bubble thing keeps floating all over the place at wits end I don’t have the patience to try to type on it anymore.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • J

    May 4, 2013

    kim

    I was just re reading your responce to me about why men want everyone to be the brady bunch and oh man it made me laugh again. your responce are on point and funny!! Thank you

  • J

    May 4, 2013

    Asalamu Alaykum Bobti and welcome!!

    You are definitly not alone and feel free to come here and type. Releasing yours thoughts and emotions is a good thing. I agree with Kim and Aisha, please know your right. It really bother me when men specificly muslim men think they have a right to get a second wife when they cant even support there first?? like HUH? SubhaanAllah that is not of the sunnah at all. Allah places the resposibilty upon the man to provide for his family plus feed them and clothe them when he clothes him self. And Islam allows the woman to work and the money she makes is her money the husband does not have a right to it unless the wife offers.

    InshaAllah may Allah make your situation easier, may you find comfort and ease in blogging, and may Allah send you beautiful righteous friends your way to uplift you!!

    InshaAllah try your best to communicate with your husband about these things. And your like kim said keep your distance from her, because her intentions might be bad. No matter how hard it is to do now because it is for me, focus on your self and your religion and pleasing Allah through your worship.

  • Aishah 2013

    May 4, 2013

    Bobti excuse me.typing from my phone some kinda weird spell check took over:/

  • Kim

    May 4, 2013

    Asalaam Aleikum Bobti and again, welcome,

    Sounds like a very messy situation. I’m not sure I agree that all under one roof is haram; I believe if all spouses are on board, no problem, but it shouldn’t be forced that way. I’ve known of a few poly families where both wives live together, with varying degrees of success. As introverted as I am, while the idea sounds nice and has merits, I’d probably lose my mind in fairly short order. Not because of anything other than I need my own space and breathing room without everyone all up in my face. Having help around the house would be lovely, and a built in companion with the right co would be awesome (to a degree) but in general, having to go find a quiet corner to go flake out doesn’t appeal. I need my own roof and 4 walls thank you very much LOL….

    Sounds like there’s a lot of game-playing going on in your situation. How does your husband feel about your co’s behaviors? I guess all you can do is do you. That’s a hard lesson I learned. I’ve been through what I am fond of calling the 7 circles of hell in this polygamy trip, and my head’s been everywhere and back again multiple times. Ana here is fond of saying we cannot control other people, we can only be responsible for ourselves, our thoughts, our actions. I believe that’s true for you….you can’t fret over either of them….you cannot control what they do, say, or think.

    I think my co has changed over time; how much Allah only knows…I’m sort of hoping for the best but prepared for the worst there. My husband is the same impetuous goofball he has always been. The change in how I feel in being a polygamous wife again is all 100% within me. I’m very grateful to have come to the place of ease at last happy

  • Aishah 2013

    May 4, 2013

    Bobtail my first bit of advice would be to cease communications with her.if you feel you have earnestly tried and no good comes out of the encounters just stop.you don’t have friends who give you negative reactions or hurt you and continue to be your friend.if you say nothing you can do no harm.ask your husband to please respect your feelings on this(although he will continue to push it(every king of the jungle wants his women friendly smiling laughing together.if it has not happened probably wont…and even when angry with you he should come home if your night.he can go sleep on the couch.know your rights.why is he not working?and probably good there aren’t children involved

  • KA126

    May 4, 2013

    As Salaamu Alaikum Bobti,

    Welcome to the blog! You will find an enormous amount of support here.

  • Bobti

    May 4, 2013

    Thank you Ana and Kim for inviting me to this thread…. I haven’t read it all yet, but I have read most of Ana’s story now…I just want to say, Ana you made me feel much better now. I thought I was the only one feeling the way you feel and now I feel quite normal happy

    Without telling my whole story, just short…my husband is also a foreigner, much much younger than me…I can’t have children anymore, alhamdulilah I have 2 daughters and 2 grandsons already..I am a revert for 3 years now, but only started madressa a year ago and is studying it quite deep … (I’m a lawyer hahaha)

    I caught my husband and no 2 flirting on the internet and I told her I was his wife and he is married…He was furious when he found out she deleted his friendship on fb!

    Not knowing they continue it and 3 months later I found out when they were already married!!!

    She comes from the same culture and background as me and also reverted….I am the “bad” one not controlling my feelings and emotions and went through all the abuse that is in the book…so did she…we all lived together at the beginning in my house as I was unaware it was haraam…alhamdulilah, I was the “bad” one to throw them out..

    Now they have their own house and I have mine…She is also older than him and no threat to me with physically looks…she still has no child of his and they are married for 1 year now…

    The thing I can’t deal with in my marriage is “punishment”!!!…. it varies but most of the time “no contact” which can be from 1 – 30 days!!

    Most of my punishment was because of her nailing me – backbiting….she’s good in sarcastic words and words with hurtful meanings…I am not an angel…I am honest and straight which also hurts…she lies and has false pretenses and I can’t lie and I hate false pretenses….If I am angry or happy you can see it in my face…she can be angry and give you a false smile….well I cant deal with it!

    We have tried so many time to be “friends” and to built trust…but it just does not work as I cant see her good intentions in her actions…recently I sent her some furniture from my house….with no thank you ….I sent her a birthday gift….no thank you….I was not invited even for coffee with her and my husband on her birthday….but they say they have family values…like Eid last year….no plate of food for me…as it is not my time with my husband!

    I struggle with the Muslim morals….I got the one about not expecting a thank you!
    I struggle with her and my husband with their Muslim morals about giving his no.1 a plate of food on Eid and her that remind him of doing it which is non existent… to me is feeding as many people as possible, even the ones on the street…

    No. 2 is good with honey on her lips and what she says she make sure people believe….well good news…she loves me! ….well so much for her good intentions…. a thank you would have been appropriate…I would expect some1 on the street not to say thank you as he/she would not have known me… but she “loves” me and she is my “friend”!

    I am the problem maker raising my feelings and views….and I get punished with no contact for 6 days!

    My husband is not working….he has two wives working for him….his job is to travel between 2 houses and give emotional support to me…what he gives her I don’t know…

    I can only revert to my salaah and my Allah….but it feels lonely as I do not have other Muslim family or friends…in fact NOT ONE other human being except my husband…

    Shokran for you with this blog….I never thought I would be in touch with anyone who can understand the situation…

    Your sister in Islam

  • Aishah 2013

    May 4, 2013

    Oh no Ana I’m done with that.other day he asked me if I would do something for her (faxingsomething)I said OK.I don’t care.do lots of stuff for lots of people in a day.then he called her and asked if it was OK for me to do it.she said no.it was just dumb.he shoulda asked her first.first before involving me.yes she does notwant interaction with me.I am fine with thati did extend myself already.I am done.it is bizarre but I think she fears I will discover something about her (and she does have a lot hidden)that will mess up their relationship or her immigration.like I said I just keep praying God reveals the same information to him..no doubt I will be divorced if it has to come from me but eventually maybe that’s what God wants.I don’t know I don’t have answers.yes I told him God may have other plans is keeping it apart for a reason.he says to me “you are so strong you are so amazing.you can be the bigger person”and guess what I already am the bigger person by not engaging her in anythingyes Allah protecting me just like in your situation.I think he probably makes hints to her about the same and she shoots it down.knowing me in any way does not benefit her game plan.I don’t think she is the person he thinks she is at all..

  • ana

    May 4, 2013

    @Aishah, As Salaamu Alaikum!

    It doesn’t sound as though she’s banging down your door, trying to make friends. It’s what amazes me. One party goes out of her way to try to come together with the other or try to get some type, any type of dialogue going and the other does nothing.

    He lets you know he’d like you two to be friends. I wonder what, if anything, he says to her. Most importantly, I’d love to know her response. You’ve already extended yourself to her and for the longest. How many times has she reached out to you? It’s bizarre…It’s all I can say.

    I really think Allah swt keeps us separated from some people to protect us. I think it’s what is happening in my situation. I believe Allah is protecting me. After all, she and I have NOTHING in common – we’re just sharing the same man.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Aishah 2013

    May 4, 2013

    Salam all.Maureen thanks.hope u r doing well.I don’t think I’m as peaceful as I sound although yes I would say I’m pretty strong.I have acceptance of things its changed me in a lot of ways but my eyes are still open and I still watch for potential abuse of me and keep an eye on how things affect my kids.only God knows how this story all turns out.some days good some days not as good.now accustomed to my nights alone.took a while…my hub had to take Co shopping for some clothes.don’t think he loves that..he’s never done it with me.I just go get what I need.he said “I don’t know where to go.you could have taken her”I just said “yep”..oh well..but I did give him some advice so his trip was productive..

  • ana

    May 4, 2013

    @Kim, Wa Alaikum As Salaam!

    You’ve come a very long way. happy I sense a calmness about you that you speak of. I have a good feeling you will all come together as a family. Based on all you’ve said, she’s been through a lot too. She probably has grown a lot from the the experience, and have changed a bit. I truly believe we should continuously be getting better. If we remain in the same place, after a while, something is probably wrong. Yes, we all progress at our own pace, but there should be some progression regardless of how miniscule it is. It was way kind of you to give them food. It way special. I am so happy for you about the progress you’ve made . happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Kim

    May 4, 2013

    Asalaamz all,

    @ Maureen, thank YOU happy I write them to inspire myself because I can refer back to them when that old feeling decides to come around again (it did last night but only fleeting…Alhamdulillah)

    @Ana, OH you are so right…after hardship comes ease. I cannot believe how calm I am and how unaffected I am compared to previously. N picked M up after work last night and I sent over a jar of my Kashmiri Masala paste, some “ver” (it’s a homemade type of chili paste that helps make Kashmiri food so irresistible LOL), a pot of goat curry I’d made yesterday evening and some rice.

    M and N had dinner together at her place and discussed things face to face in depth. I felt a type of way as he went out the door, yes, and a type of way when my movie finished and I went to sleep, but NOTHING like I used to. I hope he had a nice time and cleared the air. She seems to have really done some soul searching and gotten herself together, based on the communication I’ve had with her. Alhamdulillah. For her sake especially.

    So yes…they’re getting back together but taking it at a natural pace. Nothing forced or pressured. Insha allah I will maintain my happy place of serenity throughout and things will finally be as they should be for the two of them, for he and I, and for all 3 of us as a whole happy

  • ana

    May 4, 2013

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Peace to All,

    @Maureen,

    It’s good to hear from you, Maureen. You sound happy. I pray you’re feeling way better too and your pregnancy is coming along very good. happy

    Thank you for asking about Alex and me. We’re doing good, Alhumdulliah. He’s with me this weekend. We’ll be on vacation soon and we’re both looking forward to it. Alex asked me not to talk about the details of it in case his other is reading the blog. I can understand him not wanting to deal with drama. We have quite a few events coming up soon, which should be fun for us to attend. He let me know that the wife of his step-son (step-son from his previous marriage) should be able to come here from Morocco soon. Alex’s ex-wife is planning a walima (party) for them. She invited me. I said, Insha Allah, I would attend. I met her in person and hung out with her for a while, during the time Alex’s mom died last year. We got along really well. We were both just down to earth and real with each other. I had a good time with her. So, I look forward to attending the party with Alex.

    It crossed my mind about Alex marrying another, particularly his ex-wife. I doubt it would happen. It seems if he had this other one to do over, he wouldn’t, if it was up to him and thing were the way they are with him and me now. I can’t really say one way or another if I’d mind i dont know If it were his ex-wife whom he’d remarry – well, one thing, she wouldn’t have to change her last name. She and I already have Alex’s last name. She and I both know him well and he knows her. She not receptive to polygamy though. Just thoughts on my part. One never knows how one will feel about things tomorrow.

    I enjoyed reading your post, Maureen. Have a wonderful weekend, Insha Allah. happy

    @J,

    I like that you and your co are able to communicate. You can talk and be cordial in an effort to live in peace in our religion (way of life) Islam. I know it’s far from easy and you are going through so much now. Try with all your might to keep turning to Allah swt, and ask him to let you pass this test and that he dispose of your affairs towards comfort and ease. You must believe what He says that with hardship there will be relief after hardship there is ease. Know it will only happen, if you truly believe. You’ll be okay, Sis J. {{{hugs}}}

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • J

    May 4, 2013

    Asalamu Alaykum everyone, thank you all for your responces I havent been to active in writing anymore as am just so down. staring at the wall seems relaxing lol.

    Sarata, and everyone else with my update

    Girl I feel you, you see for me my family could never ever know. I already have to act happy all the time I cant even have sad days cause my mom will get depressed omg, anyways if they even find out they will hate my husband and beg me to leave him everyday and i cant deal with that. because I wont leave him, even though this a very hard test to deal with. Am a stay at home mom, he gives me all my rights and more, plus I have two kids with him, what breaks my heart so much is that we have so little time with him I value him time and now it will be less But we plan and Allah subhaana wa ta’ala is the best of planners mashaAllah. The only benefit I see in this is that you to can actually have peace in the family if your friend doesnt become a different person over night.
    For us we have to accept that this a part of our religion but I think what hurts us is that we want our husband to just say I will never take another I will only love you..lol..but if that was the case am sure there will be many women without husbands as ratios are almost always off.
    I can also say no matter how curious i am or you will get trust me you just dont want to know. because for me the less i know the less things will float arnd. I can also say I hope your husband is a man and handles everything properly, because mine is acting like nothing ever happened nor has changed. even tho am furious that does help tons.

    alright so this chick was at the apt dowstairs, she isnt moving in there anymore. I did not speak to her the whole day until she wrote she was soo cold i guess something was wrong with the heat. and then he started writting why you gonna be so cruel and let her freeze..i wanted to be like I dont give a shit shes your resposibilty go freeze with her lol BUT i let her in my house gave a her a sweater and made her effing tea..gosh am upset just writing about it,. hahaha it doesnt hurt that I was looking super fine. anyways lol she kept bugging me about my feelings and to talk to her that i will feel better and she wanna be my best friend etc. So i shared very little with her I just said Am hurting I need ALOT of space. and she kept asking were is stemming from blah blah. So I said my family time is precious I get very little of it I value it, he and my children are my only family and now he will give you some of his time. she just stay quite..mind you I was very nice when I just wanted to loose my mind a bit . I even told her am upset with him, not with you because I do want her to be happy. yo this chik started crying???? @#$&%*$&#^@#$%^ I got so upset I told her to stop crying its mad corny. Anyways before she left I made a very bad joke like thank god I dont own guns. She told all of this to the husband and that she doesnt wanna live here anymore etc.

    Anyways he took this resposibilty I am just really trying hard not to care anymore. Alhamdulillah I live in a beautiful home and have healthy kids . And just need to focus on deen. I gotta run to ballet class with my daughter. salams everyone

  • Maureen

    May 4, 2013

    Hi Hilly,
    How are you ‘n how is the family doing?
    I pray you all are well ‘n enjoying each other’s company, insha Allah.
    Reading your post(s) about the phone calls with the ‘Co’ reminds/reminded me of how I (used to) feel when mine is/was talking with #2.
    She used to call him plenty of times right after his arrival in here’n before I even have the time to greet him properly. Those phone calls did mess me up ‘n ruin our reunion ‘n very often his whole stay, actually.

    The anger/frustration/hurt … feelings will be there, at times you can handle them, at others you cannot.
    We all have our low/weak moments ‘n bad days.
    All you can do is pray ‘n tell yourself that he’s calling you too when with her ‘n pray that you’ll get stronger ‘n indifferent to them.
    It might get easier to handle with time ‘n you won’t be feeling the way you’re feeling now.
    It still bothers me when Hubby is on the phone with her ‘n I get really upset ‘n angry when the communication lasts for hours. I do understand what is said, but I try to leave the room, when he’s on the phone with her or better yet I ask him to go to another room to make/take the dreadful call(s).
    Thank Allah those calls are getting fewer with time ‘n they do not speak for weeks on end at times since he’s back here with me, only via texts.
    I pray it will stay that way, insha Allah.
    The less I hear/catch of her, the better for me ‘n my family.
    I just pray she won’t be coming over here at the end of August to join him, because this is the ultimatum he gave her to be here.

    Anyway, just hang in there ‘n keep in mind that we all do have good ‘n bad days, pray ‘n stay positive.
    You are not alone, Hilly. You are strong ‘n will get through this, insha Allah Xx

    @Ana,
    How are you doing? How is your hubby? I hope the both of you are keeping well ‘n wish you a lovely weekend, insha Allah.
    Xx

    @Fatima,
    You posts are really entertaining happy
    I pray your guests will be leaving soon, insha Allah, so you can relax again ‘n enjoy your daily routine.

    @Kim,
    Your comments are very inspiring ‘n enlightening as well. I truly enjoyed reading them.
    Keep the spirit up winking

    @Khadija,
    I am sorry you are feeling that way. I pray Allah SWT eases your pain ‘n showers you with his blessings.
    You’re strong , you’re gonna be just fine, insha Allah.

    @Gail,
    Sending you lots of good vibes, positive thoughts ‘n prayers.

    @ Aishah,
    You sound really at peace with yourself ‘n so strong.
    I pray things will stay that way, insha Allah.

    Have a happy weekend everyone ‘n keep me ‘n my family in your prayers, please.

    Xxx
    M

  • ana

    May 3, 2013

    @Sarata, As Salaamu Alaikum!

    Alhumdulliah, you are still with us. It’s a bit difficult for me to stay on top of who is who anymore. So many have joined us here, Alhumdulliah. Would you kindly give us a little synopsis of your story, Insha Allah – such as how long you’ve been married, how long you and the co-wife have been friends, and how long she and your husband have been married? It would help to refresh our memories, Insha Allah. No pressure. Please don’t feel compelled. It’s all good. happy

    @Kim, As Salaamu Alaikum!

    No worries about how long your posts are. It doesn’t matter here. I’ve found writing is therapeutic and we can all learn so much from one another. happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Sarata

    May 3, 2013

    @J
    Asalaamu Alaikum Wa Ramatullahi Wa Barakatu

    I have been reading ur posts and I too am in a similar boat.
    It was an initial, theoretical suggestion from
    Me that my hubs may marry my friend (down the line if she couldn’t find a potential hub that could offer the security an sincerity that I know mine could.)

    Now it’s actually on the cards and sometimes when iman is high and I’m thinking rationally I’m cool with it – then those bloomin emotions get involved and I wanna run screaming!

    I too am the only Muslim in my family and although I want to be honest about it, now is not a good time (my mums hub recently died so she def doesn’t need the extra stress.)
    Besides, of we give ourselves time to adjust to it first, then it may be easier to convince our worried family & friends…
    I moved from uk to Africa tho -so at least I wouldn’t have to deal with their disapproval on a daily basis. But the fact that they don’t see me everyday means they’ll prob worry about me more – meaning I’ll need to work harder to convince then I’m fine.

    So actually being fine will help lol. In’sha Allāh I could in theory have stopped this happening (she wouldn’t do it I I said I wasn’t happy about it)
    But I don’t have the right to ruin her chances and I’m hoping In’sha Allāh with time we will remain friends and poss have an even stronger bond maybe!

    How is it going at urs? Did u bite the bullet yet? X

  • Kim

    May 3, 2013

    Ooh what did we miss, Ana? Trollville? LOL…probably don’t want to know and you didn’t post it anyway so giving deets would defeat the purpose happy

    This weather sucks! I did my walk this morning in a literal blizzard…same system Gail got but way up north.

  • ana

    May 3, 2013

    @”LonelySecond”

    As you can see, I did not post your comment. What you wrote is simply ammunition for those who hate Muslims to continue to slander (make false accusations and statements against) Muslims and make false allegations about Islam. I know you support that, “LonelySecond”. Enough said. Perhaps you’ll receive the help you need elsewhere.

    This is me, watching you!

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Kim

    May 3, 2013

    LOL Jenny….he’s giddy is all. In a renewed love glow or somesuch. He has been like this all week. I’m not upset at all about it, as I said I have detached from it and feel no kind of negative way anymore. It is very freeing to have that mental chain off myself.

  • Gail

    May 3, 2013

    Ana,
    Yeah we got snow it really is strange being May and snow esp where I live.I live on the Missouri/Arkansas border.Strange Weather this year.
    Yeah his silent treatment is so childish.I have warned him yet again next time I will fix him very good if he does again.He has been warned.

  • Jenny

    May 3, 2013

    @ Gail,

    My ex-husband was one with the quiet treatment. That really drove me crazy! The record was the silent treatment for three weeks!

    Luckily for hubby, he is not one for the silent treatment. We are yellers {more me than hubby}. My nephews who live next door crack up when they hear me and uncle fighting because I curse him out in Urdu. We also slam doors. When I get mad I tend to get very sarcastic. I know all hubby’s buttons to push and he looks/acts like George Jefferson {for those who don’t know the tv show, The Jefferson’s}. If he really has me mad, when he’ll slam a door, I’ll yet out to him to slam it again because he slams the door like a faggot! laughing He is also the one who panics and worries; although, he is getting better about that. However, if he sees me upset or worried about something, since I am the lawyer and the “tough” one, then he REALLY worries.

    By the end of the day at the office, we are usually at each other’s throat because we are tired. After we tell each other to go to hell, that is generally the end of it. If he continues to piss me off, I grab my purse and go catch a movie. He can’t stand when I am not underfoot and will generally be a pain in the a$$ and text me during the entire movie. laughing After all these years of marriage, he is just now getting with the program. If he wants to annoy me when I’m busy, he comes quietly, rubbing my back in the process {then I’m puddy in his hands}, then asking me what he needed to ask me.

    @ Kim,

    What is it with men and him bringing her up? So what if she likes the cold??? And??? Granted, he is probably doing that to test the waters and see what your reaction would be. Sorry, that is something I couldn’t tolerate. I didn’t want to hear about hubby’s cousin, didn’t want to know anything about her, and I certainly wasn’t planning any picnics with her. Didn’t hate her, didn’t like her, totally indifferent and unattached ~ just the way I liked it. I told hubby if I had to know her, then it was high time he got chummy with my ex {who he is extremely sensitive of}. That generally nipped it right square in the a$$. When we first got married he told me I had a sister in Pakistan. I told him once I have a sister in Michigan {step-sister}, not Pakistan, and we don’t get along. Actually, we can’t stand each other {stemming from how they treated my father when he died}. Never heard of that again. Of course, all that was when we first married. Now he really knows the psycho he has on his hands {me}. laughing

  • Leigh

    May 3, 2013

    @ Ana

    I did walk down there today but I think the filming was Indoors. They had the big green screens covering the windows. There wasn’t much to see besides all the trailers and lighting. I drive by there multiple times a day while driving my kids to and from school. It’s just cool to have a Hollywood film in town with such big names attached.

  • ~Fatima~

    May 3, 2013

    Good Morning Ana.. yes the kentucky Derby is this weekend.. Lots of things going on.. Wehave never gone to the Derby actually but always got front row seats in front of the televison without the crowds.. winking
    The flea market will be busy because we are right close to the Derby where all the action is.. Lots of celebrities and out of towners will be there.. and they love to come and browse for souvenirs which we have and are prpared for the crowd.. Our biggest seller we have is the silver necklaces with a Derby horse and jockey riding.. They are cute..

    @Gail..
    Yes I have gone throught the silent treatment MANY times with hubs.. Its no fun and I hate it.. I use to complain to my Mother about it and sometimes she will ask me well.. is Habib on his menses this week?? LOL

    It use to really bother me.. but now I adapt to just going about my business and after some days hes back to normal.. Keep in mind though .. its not always about you.. My hubs can be mad at his brother and not speak to me or anyone.. He just shuts down…
    So I have adjsuted to this silent stuff pretty much..

    Well, This iwll be short.. I think were gonna head to the zoo.. no school today.. They are always out of school the friday before Derby

  • Kim

    May 3, 2013

    Asalaam Aleikum and good morning all,

    @Ana – we had a winter storm warning, and this after a weekend and a Monday that was 70s and an 80 degree day. We had flurries on Wednesday and temps in the low 30s all day, but the snow went south of us and we were spared Alhamdulillah. But we were left with the cold. It sucks…Monday was 75 and gorgeous, Tuesday was 30′s and cold, rainy, snowy and windy. We won’t get back to seasonal temps til next week they said. UGH.

    I grumbled about it after my walk and M pipes up something about how N loves cold weather. *sigh* of course she does.

    SO…Mr M spoke with N a whole bunch on the phone yesterday. She is working again as I said. Another big box but one she likes better. She is looking for a second job, and wants to take college courses to be a pharmacy tech. She did go through a terrible 1 1/2 months since their communication broke but was trying to heal and move on. She told him she wouldn’t make a move toward reconciliation unless she talks to me first.

    So, I ended up speaking with her, and we talked for a long time. I told her I was okay with whatever happens, and let her know that in the days since they’ve been talking again M seems a lot happier…he is smiling, more animated, and on the phone with her his tone is…idk…different…kinda playful and lighthearted. I understand more Hindi than he realizes and I know some of what he’s been telling her, since there’s no hiding for the calls anymore. That he still loves her, he missed her, he really considers her his wife still though they’ve been separated.

    N told me “but if he considers me his wife still, how could he just cut me off and not talk to me for 1 1/2 months” and I didn’t know what to tell her. I illustrated my separation from my ex in 2001. We didn’t speak for SIX months and I still loved him during that time, but I just couldn’t let myself get pulled back into his madness. When I reached out after those 6 months, he was still in his downward spiral and I knew there wasn’t going to be a reconciliation anytime soon.

    N DOES seem different…stronger, somehow. She still loves M but is focused on her own stuff…job(s), kids, goals. Talking with her wasn’t the chewing-on-tinfoil experience it had been in the past. She DOES want the three of us to do stuff together insha Allah. I guess I can do that, here n there. She’s a bit more into fitness, we can do our walks together. She worries that she couldn’t give M much time if she’s gonna be working 2 jobs and going to school, and that might be a problem with time division, because I’d get more time with him. I told her I can be flexible…I threw my comparison charts out the window and am NOT going to go there anymore because it’s so stupid.

    I told her about him being so much happier since they resumed communication and she was all “OMG…how as his wife can you stand it, how did you feel?” and I told her the truth….I am RELIEVED. I am HAPPY for him. She cannot understand that at all, so I explained that M and my marriage is nothing like this mad red hot passionate thing…as I said here, we’re best friends, we’re buddies, yes there’s sexual intimacy but it’s not by any stretch romantic…more like no-nonsense, playful, fun, do the do and done. Friends with bennies who happen to have a marriage certificate. That stunned her. I swore on Allah (probably shouldn’t do that but I did), that it’s absolutely true. We have a comfortable love and I want my best friend happy and support that. I feel zero threat, zero jealousy. I feel good.

    N’s biggest thing was, if we’re happy, who is she to interfere in this marriage? I explained that she and I are two very different people, and we each bring our own unique qualities to his table. I think by the end of the conversation she got it. And they will start seeing each other, carefully, and if it develops back into marriage down the road, wonderful. And that’s where we are now.

    Must run to the gas station and get breakfast on…sorry so long!

  • ana

    May 3, 2013

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Peace to All,

    @Gail,

    You said snow surprise It’s still snowing where you are? Wow.

    I’m glad you and the kids had a fun day. happy

    I think Fatima said she had the same problem with her hubs not talking now and again. Maybe it’s a Pakistani/Indian thing i dont know I don’t know. Anyhow, Gail, I’m glad your hubs came to his senses. Insha Allah, it will be a long time coming that he pulls that crap again. I could imagine how you felt at wits end Being given the silent treatment can make you snap,crackle and pop. Sometimes my wali/bestess gets quiet on me and I want to snap his neck. LOL He just chills sometimes, and have little to say.

    @Fatima,

    Are you still going to take the in-laws to the Kentucky Derby? I was on a business conference call last night and they mentioned the Derby.

    @Leigh,

    Did you make it down the to shooting of the film? How exciting it must be for the filming to be so close to your home. I saw they spoke on the new of the filming. I love stuff like that. I’d be in my glory to be there. happy

    Well, I’m going to try to get some sleep before Fajr at 4:30, Insha Allah. Chat with you all soon, Insha Allah.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Gail

    May 3, 2013

    Well hubby finally broke the silent treatment at 1 am this morning came woke me up from my sleep.I had mentioned to you girls that I was going to have a kinda party for the kids well it is suppose to snow tomorrow but instead took then today they had so much fun.Before that I ended up going ballistic on hubby and my father inlaw was not a pretty site.these last few days and hubby acting so immature really took it toll on me.I get so tired of him not listening to me and thinking he has the answers to all life’s questions.The problem is we are as different as night and day and there seems to be no fixing it.I am just at a loss to fix the problems.I try so hard to make him understand things but he just wants things his way.Does anyone else out there have this same problem?

  • Gail

    May 3, 2013

    Hilly,
    I am sorry u are having a hard time with skype.Listen my advice is becareful on that topic and think first before u mention this to hubby because my thinking is if u say something about it like for him to cut back talking with her when it comes your turn the same will be expected.I don’t know if it will help u mentally or not but ask yourself Do u enjoy your skype time with hubby?Does he give you the same amount of time that he does cowife or do u feel cowife takes up more of his time chatting?It might help to actually pinpoint what is actually bothering u unless it is simply the whole skype thing in general.I do hope whatever it is that you come to peace with it soon.Gail

  • Jenny

    May 3, 2013

    Ok Fatima and Ana! Thanks for cursing me!

    I swear, I can’t make this stuff up! Hubby and I have been up since 3:30 this morning, working non-stop. My niece has been at my house all day and evening watching the kids. We had a huge load of work dumped on us, license renewals, getting ahead for the Europe trip, and on and on. We finally left the office at 11:30 pm with so much work left. Reservations up until 11:30 in the morning in the computer, not for the day yet. One problem after the next all day long. Anyway, the cherry of the cake of my day was at 11:30 pm, on the way home, at last…talking about doing the do, then the damned phone rings. It is our nephew (the one who lives in Florida, but has been in Pakistan the past eight months. He came back to the U.S. His plane was five hours late and he missed his connecting flight to Florida. So I asked hubby what our nephew was going to do? I know, dumb question! Hubs dropped me off and went to JFK to pick him up. Of course, nephew taking his sweet old time getting his ass out. Oy! I wanted to suggest that we put him up in one of the hotels at the airport, but hubby thought that would be rude. He might sing a different tune in a few more hours without sleep. I for one am in bed and I am making no bones about not entertaining. Hubs knew better than to ask.

    Actually, for a reformed crack head (he did have a drug problem), I like him the most in the family. Can’t stand his father though. He and I really got off on the wrong foot. My nephews are the ones who treat me nicest, but I am so tired. No, there is no deer jerkey going in my house tonight! laughing. So tired, got to go to bed, but I had to share this one!

  • KA126

    May 2, 2013

    My CoCo will be here next Tuesday. In the meantime, I have not called her or answered her phone calls this week. I just want to take this time to spend alone with my Habibi. I volunteered for a business trip so that I could escape my Habibi and her being together the first two nights, but with him recently being ill…. plans have changed. Now she will stay with family until I get back and on my way home I will pick her up and bring her to the house in sha Allah. Again my dumb self volutneered to assist since Habibi has lost his equilibrium and can’t drive due to the illness. She is soooo excited and I am scared to death.

    However, the strange thing is….with all my planning and dodging, Allah SWT did some wonderful things this week. With my Habibi’s illness, I was able to be there to nurse him. The whole process was one of extreme intimacy (imagine me smiling and saying it was okay while he is throwing up, defecating and pissing on himself at the same time)lol…. yeah I’m a keeper, lol. It showed me how I would feel if he wasn’t a part of my life, it proved to him that I would be there for him through the bad times and most importantly it answered the question of my role/importance in his life. Subhana Allah, what a revelation for me.

    @J,
    You will have to force yourself to face the situation. Talk to her and get it over with. It’s better than wallowing in the “what ifs”. What I am trying to say is this…. You will cry, yell, scream, feel sorry for yourself… but once you take it to Allah subhana wa’aatala…. He will answer your prayers and make everything tolerable, even uplifting. Keep your head up and ride the roller coaster. The love of Allah SWT and for your husband will prevail, in sha Allah.

  • Kim

    May 2, 2013

    I don’t mean to imply all Muslim men are like this or have these motivations….but there ARE those who do. You have a few that collect wives like trophies or something. I know one lady (online) who is a first wife and has had IDK how many co-wives…he keeps wife 1 but as for 2, 3, and 4? He runs through them like socks :/

  • Kim

    May 2, 2013

    J, I have no idea, but I can venture a couple of guesses.

    1. The husband wants the Brady Bunch. One big happy family means less fitnah for him to contend with. When co-wives are at odds with each other he’s in the middle and trust me these men HATE that. WInhen co-wives maintain a silent, semi-cordial but in reality a hostile “truce” of sorts, it forces them into either picking a side or else having to over compartmentalize their lives and they HATE that too, even though men do have an innate ability to compartmentalize.

    2. It’s male pride. I swear it’s never evolved out of them. Look at the animal world…one male, a harem of females. The male is the big cheese and the females are at his beck and call, pretty much, and in the animal world they HAVE to get along to survive….not the same for males, they fight each other for the females.

    Heck, lionesses do all the flippin work, hunting and gathering, and they work together to bring it back to the male lion and their kitties. There’s a reason a group of lions is called a “pride”. In the human male world, they like to believe their wives are a reflection of themselves. 2 or more wives that work well together, that get along, that can spend time together and function as sisters (in a genuine sense, not the “ok, I’ll grit my teeth and do this” sense) is indicative that the husband made good choices, which means he’s a good husband. I doubt anything feeds a man’s ego in the Islamic community more than waltzing into a masjid with his multiple wives who obviously care a lot for each other. Sad to say but it’s probably as simple as that.

    The times N and I were together with M present you could see how much he liked it. His chest was positively puffing out like he was lord of all creation. Never mind that I was going pretty much insane and N herself I have no doubt wasn’t 100% comfy. The last time I was at N’s with M and she and I cooked dinner together he was over there sitting on the couch with the cheesiest grin ever. I wanted to smack him tongue

  • J

    May 2, 2013

    kim

    lol yo what is it with everyone gotta be best friends and the freaken brady bunch?
    Sounds nice but i dont think so maybe sometime down the road or never.

  • J

    May 2, 2013

    Salams heres my update. Everyone thank you for responding. I am doing a bit better now. I have not seen her the whole day. She in her apt. Apperantly she is waiting for me to be ready to talk to her. Which i dont know if it will ever happen on my part,Its my fault in the beggining i told her i would try to be nice and maybe friends but i cant make any promises.and that was weeks weeks ago when i thought i was strong and could handle this Anyways may Allah forgive me and over look my faults I went crazy on the hub. I had to get it out of my system. A part of me feels so imature i wish i could be stronger and not show any emotions towards this. I spent the day in the yard playing with the kids, and it helped so much sunshine rocks mashaAllah plus a few friends from jahaliya called and they love to talk about themselves lol so it helped a lot not to think about anything . He owns her one more day out of the 3 hes supposed to give at the beggining. I hope I can just go to bed, last night I could not sleep till 3am right when i fell asleep boom fajr at 4:30..

  • Kim

    May 2, 2013

    Asalaam Aleikum J,

    Wow, where did the idea come from to jam the two of you together for the day? NOTHING irritated me more than when M would do things like that and just assume I was cool with it. UGH.

    He volunteered me to teach N how I make this special Kashmiri tomato masala paste. errrrr….he knows how to make it just as well as I do since he is the one who taught me. Why can’t HE teach her? I know he would love nothing more than have his 2 women hanging out and being BFF’s but damn it, that’s not gonna happen and he cannot FORCE it to happen. Oil and water, we are!

    Try to detach from the significance of this (her being a co wife), J, and just see her as a sister in faith. If her conversation makes you uncomfortable, gently steer it elsewhere. If she insists on talking about things you don’t want to discuss, or Allah forbid is deliberately trying to bait you (and I know at this point it sure won’t take much), then yes, excuse yourself and avoid a confrontation as best as you can. BE THE BETTER PERSON and take the high road, even if it kills you…

  • ana

    May 2, 2013

    @Okhti Khadijah, As Salaamu Alaikum!

    Sounds like you’re dealing with a lot of expectations. When we do something seeking the pleasure of Allah, we don’t expect anything from other people. If you were there for those people to please Allah, you wouldn’t care that those same people are not there for you when you think you need them. All you would care about is the rewards you will possibly receive from Allah. Were you there for those people so they would be there for you?

    From what I understand of divorce based on those who were close to me and divorced, it takes a toll on most whether they wanted the divorce or not. Some expect the other person to come pleading, begging and crying for them to come back and say what a terrible mistake they’ve made by divorcing the other or for the persons having divorced him or her. When it doesn’t happen that way, the person feels badly, not wanted and disposable. Perhaps the person wants the person to come begging for the other to come back, so she or he could kick the person in the @$$ and get even. So much goes on in the person’s head about it. Expectations jams us up all the time. We have to remember we can’t control what others do, we can only try to control our own selves.

    Khadijah, it may be a good time now for you to closely look at your life, where you’ve been and what you’ve done. Try to see what you can do differently – how you can improve yourself, and make changes to go forward. One of my favorite sayings now is – “If you keep on doing what you’ve always done, you will keep on being what you’ve always been.”

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    May 2, 2013

    J,

    It’s okay. Try to relax. It may turn out nice and easy for you. We always imagine the worse scenario. You two may get along nicely and enjoy your day. Try to just go with it and see where it takes you. Ask Allah to help you compose yourself. It’s all good happy Try to be optimistic about it. You’ll have plenty of time to digest it all after she leave, Insha Allah.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    May 2, 2013

    Aishah, As Salaamu Alaikum,

    It’s okay, loooool We all have those days laughing I fixed it back. What’s weird is your last message went into spam i dont know I had to retrieve it.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Aishah 2013

    May 2, 2013

    I so messed up.my first message before was for hilly

  • khadijah Zein

    May 2, 2013

    Asalaam Alaykum Okhti’s i pray your all doing well this day

    @ Kim okhti your right and ill do that

    another thing i find hard is friends who you didnt talk about your problems much the disliked things wail they were wailing, crying and screaming to you on phone of another left them and now treat you as if how you feel has no matter and there life is to busy

    many hard pills to swallow

    shukran

    masalaam

  • ana

    May 2, 2013

    As Salaamu Alaikum and Peace to All,

    @Hilly,

    I could imagined how frustrated and upset you are right about now. You probably think he’s been gone for several months and now that he is back home with you, he should devote a lot of time and attention to you and not to her. She had her time and now it’s your time. I’d imagine when a husband is with a wife exclusively for an extended amount of time, they grow closer and become attached to each other more. I think what happens is both wives think that when the husband is with her, he should focus all his time and attention primarily on her. Should he? i dont know Allah knows best.

    Hilly, I think the only way you will be at peace with this situation (if you believe Allah controls everything) is try to accept Allah’s decree, His decision. Know that when he talks to her, when, where, how long and how often, it is Allah’s decision. We’ve already discussed here how everyone wants to satisfy his or her own desires. We want what we want, when we want it and how we want it. Your husband desires to talk to her. Your desire is that he doesn’t talk that much to her or talk to her in your presence. The question is: What is Allah’s will? Allah willed whatever happened at the time. You can talk calmly to him, rant, rage, go crazy, wig out on him all you want to bring about a change and the results you want. What would you you have accomplished by doing any of it? Perhaps he’ll stop and be agitated, angry, and upset with you for forcing his hand or you may make yourself sick, upset yourself, get yourself agitated or get angry. You must remember what will be is what Allah wills.

    This could all be a test, Hilly. You’re tested to SHOW YOU where your are in your faith and belief in Allah. Do you believe He controls all that is in the heavens and the earth, which includes you, your husband and her? If so, you have to learn to go with it what is happening or if you feel so inclined and Allah directs you to – you leave.

    Allah swt says seek His help with patience, perseverance and prayer. He says it is indeed difficult except for those who bring a lowly spirit. It means in order to be patient, persevere and pray, one has to submit him or herself to Allah’s will – bow to Him (Allah) – go with what Allah has decided for you and everyone else – which includes what he has decreed for your husband..

    I’m happy to write this, Hilly, because it’s a kutbah for me. It’s one of my lessons for me for today.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Aishah 2013

    May 2, 2013

    Last message was for J.

  • Aishah 2013

    May 2, 2013

    Salaam Hilly, you can make it.you are very very strong.think of it as your little step to overcome.its not a mountain to climb you have already conquered that.honestly you know you would expect him to communicate with her often and check on her.is the location of where he skypes too all out in the open?could he move it?or could it be at a certain time so you are somewhere else doing something for hilly(maybe with headphones on at that timelaughingso you could move forward.come on you can do it! Kim you rock!experience is a good teacher.my hub voice is different too when talking to Co on phone..sounds like he is talking to a 10year old asking if she can ride her bike in the street.she asks him same thing over and over again (trust me her command of English is much better than that)like she is bowing to his sage advice and wisdom.seriously she asks stuff or texts”can I use rice that has been expired for 3 years?”…??_Hi advise you don’t do what makes you uncomfortable.you are not obligated tosoend the day with her and entertain her.he married her you didn’t.maybe if you are comfortable(and only if you are)visiting me her a short time and then say”I have other things to do”which is true even if your plan was to do nothing..tiny steps..

  • Hilly

    May 2, 2013

    Assalamu Alaikum
    @Huda thank you so much for your kind words and reminder of Allah swt. Just having a very rough time today. Inshallah take care.

  • J

    May 2, 2013

    Omg am freakibg out. Am on my phone sry for thetypos am freakibg out he is bribfing her here and is planning on leaving her here the whole day wth am gonna look like a compkete bitch cuz her apt doesnt have any furniture and am not gonna invite her in i will attack. And the husband is gonna be.gone thewhole day.

  • Kim

    May 2, 2013

    So, after my walk I went in and gave M a cup of coffee and his medication. Talked to him for a bit about how good it feels to exercise and all that. He piped up something about how N likes walking too. I said I felt stronger and healther, he said N said the same thing. He said she is thinner than she was the last time he saw her. No matter what the topic of conversation is, N is pulled into the topic.

    Now is the time for me to put all I’ve said about detachment into use. To view it like it’s my best friend getting moony over someone, and not like I should feel any anger/anxiety/insecurity or feel devalued because of it. I admit the laughing and smiling he does when he brings her up bugs, because he HAS been so…idk…blah, with me. Again I need to say, SO WHAT…if thinking of her and talking about her brings him a warm n fuzzy, giddy and happy feeling, then Alhamdulillah. SO WHAT if it isn’t me bringing him that lovesick schoolboy smile and laughter, at least it’s there. When another male best friend from my past fell in love, I didn’t feel that type of way then; why should I feel that way now?

    He’s on the phone with her now and sounds like a totally different person than he has been. Breathe, breathe, breathe…SO WHAT!? LOL…..

  • Kim

    May 2, 2013

    Sis Khadijah,

    I get what you’re saying, truly. Love is not an emotion that gets turned on and off like a light switch. I’m seeing that clearly in my own situation. No matter how cruel and abusive and nuts N was to M, he is still “there”.

    I tend to turn love off rather quickly…or change it to a less intense emotion, or let other feelings…anger or, another emotion to mask it a bit. I am able to detach fairly easily as I get older. When I was young, ohhhh no. But I honestly believe that has a LOT to do with our own self-esteem. In my 20s, I was young, thin, healthy, hardworking, but I wasn’t real happy with myself. I thought I needed a guy to complete me, and it never failed that I went for the guys that needed “fixing”, whether from a breakup or an addiction. I needed to be needed.

    I won’t go into the details but I made terrible relationship choices. My ex, I loved that man to death. And he was horribly dysfunctional. After separating in 2001, I was finally able to let go when I met M 6 years later. And here I am now. I love my husband, but it’s no longer that kind of “OMG I can’t live without you, I’ll never be happy again and you have to only love meeeee” kind of love. It’s a comfortable love that I know is always there and given back. The absolute root of anxiety around polygamy for me isn’t so much what the other woman’s getting, it’s what we’re NOT getting during his time away (sex, more attention, more affection, more material things than he gives us). Then we ask ourselves if we really actually WANT it. I’d give good money for a few days break, to be honest. And whatever he’s doing there has NOTHING to do with me. I’m not starved for it. Well, money, yes but everything else, pah. No thanks)

    Now in your case, sis Khadijah, I think what you oughta do is make a list and be brutally honest, good and bad. What is it you love about him. What are his wonderful qualities (he must have some!)…what did and could he bring to your table that enriches (not completes, you’re complete now!) ENRICHES your life? What is it exacty about this man with multiple wives that gives you that “OMG I WITHOUT HIM I WILL NEVER BE HAPPY AGAINNNN” feeling? And then, again being brutally honest, what were the dealbreaking things he did? Look at this list and really think about it. Not so much to “get back” with him, but to carry forward with you.

    A last bit…as I said upthread,….you were a whole and complete person before Sherif ever walked into your life. Is that person dead now? Of course she isn’t! She may be dying to come back out and be heard and seen. Be good to YOU.

    Much Salaams dear happy

  • Hilly

    May 2, 2013

    Assalam Alaikum
    @Fatima I know that it is selfish of me, but this is about he is talking to the co wife since he has been home. Please make pray for my patience to increase. Now doing so good today.

  • Hilly

    May 2, 2013

    @Gail it has nothing to do with the language. It just the hold thing that bother me. I just can’t handle it. And to be honest when he his with her I don;t know how she handles it. I know that it is saving money but it is messing with my sanity.I don’t know how long I am going to be able to have things go this way. I feel at this time I am a prisoner in my own home. I am glad that it is in another language. I can’t begin to imagine how I would feel if I knew what they was talking about. I think that
    would do me in.

  • khadijah Zein

    May 2, 2013

    @ okhti Ana the fact is i do still love him and cant get pass why it was so easy for him to do it as he did even eh said he did’nt mean it he had a month time between the time he did it and the night i left and did’nt even bother to call to say just typed words

    8yrs and 1 month and then all gone in a email that didnt even take a minute to read
    some times i feel as if i cant breath and i cry a lot and cant sleep

    some tines i feel to ask him why how could he do such a thing if eh even cared of me

    @ Gail hun even before i was a Muslim i never did that go get another after a break up my x husband before Sheirf i was married for 16yrs and i left and didnt start to even see anyone till 3yr later so i understand your advice but its not me i cant do that

    anyway this is why im not on here much even im trying ot keep up reading all i pray your all doing ok and things work out for all who are new just take it easy it is an adjustment to your life and if they are good muslimahs then you will have a good sister and if not well Allah help you

    i keep telling myself one day at a time but its not getting any better

    Masalaam

  • Gail

    May 1, 2013

    Kim,
    Nope he is still not talking to me.I hate to say it but the children don’t have much to do with him when he acts like this.Honestly we stay away from him we wait until he goes to work at 3pm and he won’t return until 8 or 9 pm until them we enjoy the kids play outside and ride their bikes when it gets close to time for him and the inlaws to come they go to their room and watch movies or do their schooling.I go in my room and just watch netflix or hang out on facebook or read the blog as I am doing right now.They are in the other room talking laughing and enjoying with each other while he has not one world to say to me in 4 days.It used to hurt my feelings but I am numb to it now to be honest.One thing for sure my eyes are wife open now to his crappy treatment of me and u can betcha he can kiss it where the sun don’t shine as far as I’m concerned.I have been thinking alot and believe me when I tell u It is better we don’t talk because all $hit is going to hit the proverbial fan as soon as I tell little Mr Sweetie I am not moving back to Pakistan well u can imagine.

  • Aishah 2013

    May 1, 2013

    Kim I like that line of thinking.maybe I am gonna get there too.I find myself worrying freaking less about the things I did like the”he must do the deed with me on my nights”or be here like punching a clock at an exact minute..course he knows the consequences of coming at a time which is into the next dayhappy…I’ve given more nights or not cared as much as long as he’s spending time with kids.it doesn’t mean I don’t love him just that my world better not revolve around him…I don’t know I have even thought its probably harder on kids than me at this point.they need more of his time and are very verbal about it (to me not him)..maybe just maybe (maybe by next month) and I didn’t put it out there yet I will flip an extra night during the week so he can pick them up see them before going towards her.weekends no problem they hang with other family have fun but weekdays..think they need to know he is interested in what they are doing what their schedule is..instead of being the Guy who stops by to take nap or use the computer.he totally knows Co schedule.she’s not unselfish but I’m gonna try to be when it comes to kids.yes I guess in perfect situation they could go with the 2 of them.but kids totally don’t want to..

  • Gail

    May 1, 2013

    Aishah.
    OMG I have been wanting an RV for the last few months really bad.You guys are going to laugh but I seen this like 1978 RV for sale just today like super cheap and very very low miles and oh so clean.I know what u r thinking 1978 lol but it is just hippified and really cute with pen stripes down the side I can totally see myself and the kiddies going on trips in that thing.The kids want to travel and Honestly until a few months ago I never gave it much thought to get an RV but if that thing sits in the paper a couple more days I might just buy the little sucker.How hard do u think it would be to get parts for a 1978 RV?The paper said it only has like 58,000 miles on it and get this they only asking 1500 and from the pic in the paper it looks in really great shape someone really took care of it.You guys don’t laugh Fatima only lives like 3 hours from me so yeah I can sure swing by and grab her.Gosh me and my crew it would be like The National Lampoons Vacation to Wally World!!! except without then man of course!!

  • Leigh

    May 1, 2013

    @Fatima

    I’m still here happy I read all the posts, I just have nothing to report on my end. Things are pretty much the same. I kinda flipped a switch in my own mind the other day though. I had been really angry and avoiding dh and just being moody, maybe it was pms lol. But now I’m calm and not stressing out. Just kinda going with the flow for now alhamdulilah. On a side note there’s been some excitement. In town. There’s a Hollywood movie being filmed down the street from my house with a bunch of A-List actors. It’s cool to drive by every day and see all the Hollywood glamour. I keep meaning to go down to the set and watch but haven’t yet. Maybe tomorrow while the kids are at school. happy

  • Fatima

    May 1, 2013

    @Aiesha… hahaha. You had me laughing… Yes Gail. I will leave the front door open for you .. come right on in… I would be blessed to have you come…and welcome you dearly… then we can take off together in ur new suv or winnebago and head for the hills and leave the outlaws drama behind… whohoooo

  • ana

    May 1, 2013

    @Kim,

    I totally understand you. What you said makes much sense. I think we’re traveling a new road on this journey – a smoother one…

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Kim

    May 1, 2013

    @Ana,

    Yep, I’d be truly shocked if I don’t have a co again. That’s all right. I mean, obviously polygamy is M’s lot in life, and at least with N I know what I’m getting (Allah help me!) as opposed to an entirely different co I’d have to try to work with. Not that there is any real working with N, but at least I know that already. No surprises – UNLESS she did do a 180. That would be a shocker.

    I love my husband through my heart…that’s not a question. I wouldn’t have gone through all 7 circles of hell with him if I didn’t. HOWEVER, when it comes to this aspect of our marriage, there has to be kind of a paradigm shift and I know it’s happening. I look at him more like my buddy, a best friend, not someone my entire world revolves around, but someone who is very near, dear and important in my life…but it’s still at the end of the day MY life. ME. Does that make even a little sense? He already is my best friend, so that’s easy….with a best friend, you are very close to them but you don’t wig out (hopefully) when they get a significant other, even if you don’t like their choice of who that significant other is. You still love that friend; you still support that friend; you still hang out (hopefully)…well, I’m approaching this in that manner rather than a supposed jilted wife being faced once again with a rival. I have zero need to emotionally go down that road and invest all that energy to fight a pointless battle that only makes us all miserable. I have better things to do!

  • ana

    May 1, 2013

    Oh, Aishah, rolling on the floor No you didn’t. You told Fatima to leave the door open when sister-in-law leaves because Gail is coming laughing oh, my goodness; it is too funny. Poor Fatima sad I don’t think she thinks it’s funny right about now, but I do. That was good one , Aishah. This is Gail, right about now thinking saying, ummm, maybe that’s right laughing

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    May 1, 2013

    @Kim,

    Sounds like you’ve got yourself a co-wife again LOL It seems once we’ve got one, they are here to stay or the thought that they may come back never leaves our minds. As you stated, it probably would be beneficial for all three of you if she comes back. Insha Allah, he’ll cheer up a bit and she can help you out with caring for him, which would lighten the load for you. As you said, you could use a break here and there. It is said when we get older our the patience we used to have for certain things do wane. It’s all good. Maybe she has mellowed out some straight face Insha Allah, you shall soon see.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Kim

    May 1, 2013

    Gosh I’m a post-ho, sorry….Gail, they are divorced..she sent him a text in Hindi today saying slowly slowly friends first. Yeah…she is as impetuous as he is lol…I don’t hold a lot of weight on that.

  • Aishah 2013

    May 1, 2013

    Gail hang in there.skip the SUV get the winnabego and just drive.Fatima keep the door open. Once your company leaves Gail is coming.Hilly you must be enjoying your family return! Is it hard to readjust once your hub comes home?like oh yeah I can’t just curl up with a book there HR is….again I have to wonder..probably both an equal challenge to adjust to ..flipping every night or every few nights vs hub being gone months then back months…yes Skype would be tough. Sometimes the excess of phone calls and texts are tough.I figure yes he’s thinking of you yes he’s thinking of me…J it will get easier.no one got there overnight.just keep praying.and honestly yes assess the person Co before you involve yourself and kids. too heavily with her.God gave us a brain to be smart with.you may end up friends or you may not.please the Creator not the created although sure hubs life easier the smoother it is.My poly area this weak seems to be getting strength and limit setting.This week hub finally told me sincerely that he was sorry for all the trouble hurt experienced.but..wasnt. too long after that he seems to have begun Operation Reunite Aishah and Co.each time I have declined.yes that’s a walking on eggshells game Kim.I am firmly OK with commiting to a do no harm or perceived harm policy by not engaging in that stuff again.if it makes it tougher for him I cannot help it.will pray for guidance strength and to be left alone.p.s. she has not initiated any of this. Of that I am way very certain.it might be flattering to hear how strong I am and how I can do anything if this was not the intended mission.p.s. my health issues appear o.k.God was letting me know that there are always bigger things to worry abouthappy,

  • Kim

    May 1, 2013

    Oh and Gail, that’s crazy……you need to eat or you are gonna get sick….besides your blood sugar is gonna go nuts and your moods with it.

    I don’t know what gets up your hub’s arse but there is no way I could deal….M does it butt nowhere near to that extent. How is he with the kids? This has to be causing tension with them too. I would be seriously considering drastic action too.

  • Kim

    May 1, 2013

    @Gail,

    We have a couple of huge South Asian grocery stores here. You can get dang near everything in them including Limca soda which I love. Burfi, ladoos, rasmallai, gulab jamun, you can get it all along with the mass quantities of veggies fruits meat and rice. They even have fresh paan.

    I forgot she also gave him kulfi ice cream bars. The woman is determined to derail my diet lolol…I gave them and the halal beef sticks to the kids….

    I know how to make homemade burfi but it is too much like work!

  • ~Fatima~

    May 1, 2013

    Salams to all..
    hope everyone had or is having a better day then me..LOL..
    We received our hospital bill today when we took sister in law to hsopital becauseof her blood sugar.. with all the tests and medicine they gave her… its almost 6 thousand dollars.. I told my husband she has no clue.. hes afraid to tell her and i dont know why.. he says please honey just show her the bill.. I dont expect her to pay it but pls show it to her and tell her I have to pay this and its really hard at this time financially.. Yeh im the bad guy here who has to tell her.. so nope he will tell her with me.. cos then I will look like the evil woman here.. I heard her on the phone with her son saying oh yes.. you can come here and go to school.. they have college programs for free.. Here we go… I told my husband that he should tell his family the truth about how much everything is here.. they are thinking its free and dandy here and the glory of usa..
    He has mislead them big time…
    Anyway Gail.. you also had me laughing when you said I will be forced to eat the jerky.. And yes I bet your right.. its still drying outside with the flys..hahahahhahaha
    Maybe she can take it all with her when she leaves.. a gift from us.. lol

    @ Hilly.. How are you? I hope your still not too much stressed out.. I thought your husband was home? II am misunderstanding about the skype thing.. are youtalking with him on the skype?
    Is that what bothers you or is he talking with the co after he returned.. If thats the case then I sure can understand…
    Well I just wanted to stop in..
    @ Jenny.. hello to you too
    @ Leigh where are you Leigh? I hope your doing better..
    salams to all and gotta get dinner ready.. be back later

  • Gail

    May 1, 2013

    Khadijar,
    You know the old saying the only way to get over the old man is to get a new one.lol
    I think you should stand firm.You decided to leave him and it was very important to you to take that step to leave him.I really think a year from now your life is going to be so very different in a good way.Right now your just lonely I think.If you really have desire to be married again now this is just me and I have no idea what your age is but if u are over 40s and are past your child bearing years I would be looking for a widowed man.I think they make really great husbands and they will be very happy to get another wife and most treat their wives very nicely.Yup I think a mature nice older Muslim widow man is all you need to get u back up and in the saddle again.lol When your ready of course(smile).

  • Gail

    May 1, 2013

    Hilly,
    I am curious about something.When hubby does skype is he speaking in another language u can’t understand? I know for me my husband speaks in Punjabi and I can’t understand him and when him and excowife talked that use to get on my nerves so bad.My husband is horrible to translate. I have had the same thing happen to me in the past and I figured out it was the language barrier problem for me even to this day I feel like him and his family talk about me poorly in front of my face can u imagine.I am sure thats not going on in your case but if he is speaking in a foreign language that could be the issue for u and u just haven’t connected the dots.I would be surprised if u told me u thought it was infringing on your and his personal time since he calls to skype u also.So I am wondering if it is a language barrier issue?

  • Gail

    May 1, 2013

    Kim,
    Where u people get burfi at? I know Wal Mart don’t sell that last I checked.I wanttt Burfiiiii
    I am on a diet to it’s called the to upset to eat diet!! lol I normally keep strictly to the seafood diet myself but since hubby is being extra nasty with me this time and has not brought food into the home for the last 4 days I decided to just well not eat much.Can u imagine I have thousands and thousands of dollars and no ride to the store to freaking purchase groceries.It’s all good though I am planning to wake up early Friday and take the kids and run away for the day.Go and price cars and take the kids out to eat and shop until we drop.
    I am curious is your husband and cowife still even married or are they now divorced?
    I am sitting here on my sofa typing and a really nice breeze just came through feels so nice.Gosh the simple things in life are the best are they not.I hope my attitude stays upbeat I have been doing really great this time around with the silent treatment.

  • Kim

    May 1, 2013

    Salaam aleikum Ana,

    It’s ok…I only spent an hour trying to dig into my laptop settings to figure out why my control C/Control V and right click copy/paste weren’t working LOL…woulda been a whole lot more efficient to try it on another page first and figure out you rigged the site for security LOL! My excuse is that I hadn’t had much coffee yet tongue

    So N left goodies with M….cashew burfi (it’s an uber sweet Indian version of fudge), naan, parathas, tea biscuits…in short, all the things that are strict no-no’s on my diet ! ARGH!!!! I have decent willpower but she’s testing it LOL….

  • ana

    May 1, 2013

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Peace to All,

    @Kim,

    Yes, sad I had to make changes to the site so no one could copy and paste the content any longer. It was brought to my attention that someone was trying to replicate our site, and take content there. They didn’t know how to be original. I realized it was a security risk. My intent is to protect the writers here, so I needed to take action, which I did. I know it is a huge inconvenience for many here, including me, as I have learned so much from everyone, and used to copy and paste info. from posts and placed them in my own personal folder so I could refer back to them easily. sigh

    @J

    Kim is correct. In the beginning of dealing with this lifestyle, you probably won’t even recognize yourself and the things you do and say. surprise You’ll find out things about yourself that you never new before and if you did know, you were able to keep them in check until now. As Gail stated, it’s all about purging and cleansing the soul. It’s better to get rid of the dirt now and clean yourself up than have that stuff inside you. It takes a lot of patience, perseverance and prayer to get it done. Not everyone can do it.

    What use to anger me is when someone would come here and say for instance, “you are a bad Muslimah.” You sinned. You did x, y and z, which is unlislamic. They spoke as though a Muslimah or Muslim is flawless and faultless. Where does this perfect Muslimah exist? There is no Muslimah or Muslim on the face of the earth that is faultless or flawless or free of sin. There are no bad Muslimah’s here on this blog. There are only Muslimah’s. We should be striving to serve and worship Allah and we do it by obeying Him. We have a code of conduct outlined for us in the Quran. Allah speaks often of forgiveness. In order for Him to forgive us, we will sin. He wants us to turn to Him for Forgiveness and His Mercy. Some will say, for instance, well, you’re encouraging people to sin. No. Allah tells us we are accountable for what we do and He tells us that he punishes as well as forgives. So, if we don’t eventually heed His warnings and mend our conduct and our lives, we may face His wrath and punishment. We have to keep things in their proper perspective. Allah swt says that a Believer is one who believes, do righteous deeds, and repent.

    @Okhti Khadijah,

    It’s understandable you are all over the place in your emotions and how you feel about Sherif and your life. You are just recently divorced. When the divorce was finalized it did not mean all the feelings in your heart for Sherif are instantly gone. This is a man whom you loved for many years. You had some good times with him and you have memories that are good. Some people divorce and never stop loving the person. If you and he have no intentions of reuniting, you may want to ask Allah swt to remove the love from your heart for Sherif. Allah put the love there in your heart for Sherif and only Allah can remove it. Know that the mixed feelings you have about the divorce and Sherif are quite expected. Try to lighten up on yourself, relax and, as Gail says – exhale.

    @Fatima,

    You had me dying in laughter over here, as well. I know you will be in your glory once sister-in-law gets up out of there. Jenny gives people three days in her humble abode. I give people zero days in mine. I’ll put someone up in a hotel, but my home is off limits. I need my privacy and it would stress me out way too much to have someone in my home who I need to entertain and maintain. LOL. I know of quite a few stories in which people have let others into their home, and can’t get them out. What a nightmare. Insha Allah, Fatima, you’ll have normalcy in your life once again soon LOL. But, beware, you may have a bunch more knocking down your door, once they learn what a gracious, generous, and kind host you were. Better you than me… hee hee

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Kim

    May 1, 2013

    Oh and she is not fat. Curvy but not fat. Dark wavy hair, and very, very short. 4 feet 10 inches at the most. Pretty, IMO…much moreso than me, but we’re 2 very different people too.

  • Kim

    May 1, 2013

    @Gail,

    N has Indian ancestry, along with Arab. She speaks a number of languages, Hindi and Arabic mainly along with English. She’s a US citizen having come here from IDK where as a child. That’s all I really know.

    Her ethnicity has been brought up as an issue; for example, yelling about how he could prefer a “white b**** ” to a real Muslim, Indian woman. Like her ethnicity and family background gave her some kind of special leverage. Guess not. It is, however, one reason M gives for her plight. With a divorce comes “a very big black spot” on her in the community. UGH…this is America…hello, divorce is as common as sparrows. Not that it’s a good thing, but it’s hardly the stigma he or she make it out to be, but perhaps in her community it still is, I don’t know.

  • huda

    May 1, 2013

    Asalaam Hilly

    I know exactly how you feel Hilly. My hubby does the skype thing and it is so distressing for me too. I don’t know what it is, it just winds me up and I have to take a bit of time out and calm myself down. He does the same when he is there with her and I know for a fact that she hates it too. You are not weak Hilly, you are doing remarkably well, better than many of us. But you are not made of stone, some things will “get under your skin” no matter how strong one is. Just when you think you’ve got there, another spanner is thrown into the mix – but in time I am sure it will get better inshALLAH, like everything else we somehow adjust and keep it together with ALLAH’s help and a bit more sensitivity from our husbands wouldn’t go a miss. Alhamdulliah.

    much salaam

  • Gail

    May 1, 2013

    Kim,
    I didn’t know your cowife was from india? if this is correct then this explains alot of her attitude towards you.Am I thinking correct she is from is indeed from India?Now you have my curiosity going.I don’t know why but I pictured her as this older late 50s 175 pound white woman with gray hair!!!

  • Gail

    May 1, 2013

    J,
    The best advice I can give you is you really have to be your own best friend.It’s ok if u yourself don’t accept Polygamy some people just can’t accept it and it seems to me you better come clean with hubby and tell him because your health is starting to be effected and that is never a good thing.On the other hand if u are in this for the long haul then girl u have got to get a hold on your emotions understand.I have this feeling u have put your hubby up on a this thrown like every wife does and now u are feeling for the first time that hubby doesn’t have your best interest at heart in this matter(could this be the case).You will need to figure out what is at the root of your issue.In my case it was his lying.I became very angry because I trusted a man who was lying to me through are entire marriage.In your case it will be something different I imagine.I think u said u have young children are u scared that if he could practice polygamy that he is also capable of divorcing you later on or taking more wives?Just sit down and have a cup of tea and figure out what is disturbing u so badly and try to fix it.
    J this is part of the process I personally call it purdging or soul cleansing you can pick your own name for it.Either way it is a hard hard process to go through and yes it hurts like H@LL. It took me one year to exhale and say ok I am ok by the time i exhaled hubby had divorced her.
    Still my life is not good and a huge mess to be frank.I will tell u this if u have given power of your life to your husband you better start reclaiming it.I don’t know if u work or stay at home but u will need to figure out alot of things.I wish i could tell u to go seek help but like u said when u open your mouth about this everyone just gasp and thinks hubby is a dirty pig.I told my mother at my husbands request because I was crying all the time and upset.I told her and it was the biggest mistake of my life.She told me get divorced from him he is a pig.So now on top of everything my husband knows my mother wants us divorced and he doesn’t miss an opportunity to cut her down saying she has gives bad advice.So yeah unless u find a sister that is practicing polygamy herself then I would say don’t tell it is humiliating enough feeling without others rubbing your nose in it.
    I will tell u keep blogging out your feelings I don’t know why but it always helps me to cope and at least here on the blog u know you are not alone in your struggles.

  • Gail

    May 1, 2013

    Jenny,
    Sorry Yeah I got a bowl.Honestly for some reason I just stopped eating the last 4 days.I just kind of nibble around.No we are not around each other 24/7 like you and your hubby are.I stay home with the kids.But in all seriousness he is out of the home maybe 5 hours a day.Weekends he is gone all day.My main problem is he has always kept me at home if I need to go anywhere he always takes me.I don’t know why but looking back now I guess it has to do with his mother not being able to drive but not really sure since I am the one that taught him how to drive.I am telling u the more I think about it the more I think he has a personality disorder.I am being dead serious.All these years I thought maybe it was me because little by little he made me depend on him and I don’t know I was happy to be with him so like Ana says the red/pakistan flag was there but I just didn’t want to see it.What I do now know is I want very much to be free and live a free life.I hate to say it but this marriage has been nothing more than a prison sentence for me and one that I am close to being pardoned from to be honest.
    I am going to get my own vehicle in the next few weeks and I am going to start doing what I like to do.I won’t file for divorce as I don’t want to remarry but if he files then I won’t stop him either.I am just looking to not be pushed around anymore.
    Here is another thing he has given his mom another close to 20,000 dollars to purchase property in Pakistan.I am really upset about this because he had promised me for years he would build me and the children a home.Every year something came up for the business and I would let him invest in the business.Like one year it was buying in with Blue Bunny distribution,next year it was a commercial freezer.so and so on and I never cared because we had our property paid off and I was not in a huge hurry I just really loved him so I made the choice to let him have his things for the business even when I was not agree like the blue bunny distribution.
    I don’t know I am just at a loss on how my life has become not in my own control.Thats why I have been so wishy washy on moving back to Pakistan or staying in USA.I have to get control back of my own life and then go from there thats pretty much all I know at this point.I do know it is about 1% chance hubby will stick around after I do this because he is a control freak.It’s funny I always thought I was the control freak nope it is hubby.

  • khadijah Zein

    May 1, 2013

    Asalaam Alaykum Okhti’s I pray your all doing well 1 day at a time….

    I dont really have any thing to say on this subject

    I did put Sheirf FB pages blocked, he email me asking if i did and if so why so I
    replied to keep from seeing his post of his vacation Pic’s there in Egypt another lie and to think on more of his lies and to well heal myself

    It’s not easy for me my heart is a mess and i just keep praying Allah help me and take the hurt broken feelings i have away crying

    so that’s it for now nothing else to say for the time

    I will say @ Gail think you giving a lot of advice to any sister who may be thinking along the lines of marriage to a Paki

    good luck to all

    Dijah

    Masalaam kiss

  • Kim

    May 1, 2013

    Asalaam Aleikum J,

    It took time for me to get here. As Ana has said, she looks back on years past when she was not in a good place and goes WOW…who WAS that?? LOL…at least I do.

    M met N in the fall of 2011 and they had a “Mut’ah” marriage. All of this was without my knowledge. That carried on til I figured out what was going on at the end of November. I lost my ever-lovin mind LOL…see, I can laugh about it now, and it was only a year and a half ago happy They had proper Nikah a few months later, I did my best to accept it, and it was full of ups and downs. I never stopped him or anything, but of course I had my issues. My Co is certifiable and I let that affect me WAY more than I should have.

    M divided his time 4 nights at each, N and I had this bizarre on again/off again communication and it was very tense a lot of the time. And right about the time that I fully settled into polygamy, their relationship fell apart. Figures! That was in Mid December, I think (things are a tad blurry with the timeline now).

    They had sporadic communication since then, til it cut off completely in early March. Til now, and he’s feeling like he wants to give it another go. Yeah I feel a bit…ok, a lot…of trepidation, but if I could survive it before I sure can again. In any event, the complication before was my tendency to dwell on this whole thing, to wrap my entire being around my husband. I was my own worst enemy in that regard. I’m so over that now. I honestly don’t really care if he gets back with her.

    As I said, I could really use the break….and I think with my husband’s health issues, it does kind of take 2 of us to care for him. He’s not an invalid, not 24/7 but he has days that are worse than others when the pain is bad and he is limited in mobility and needs a lot of help with ADLs (activities of daily living) which I’m fine with, though I admit can get irritating when I’m busy with something, have to drop it to go pick up something from the floor for him.

    His depression and mood though, really takes a toll on me and my patience isn’t what it should be, or what it was when I did this for a living. I’m a no-nonsense practical, professional caregiving type, having worked in direct patient care for years that’s how I roll..the ADLs…helping him dress or bathe or get up and down isn’t bad as just dealing with his mood swings…distant one minute, then begging for attention the next, usually when I’m in the middle of something else…those try my patience bigtime.

    N texted a little while ago and M called her back just now. Sounds like they’re meeting today…they sure don’t waste any time….

  • Kim

    May 1, 2013

    Aishah, you said something in your comment that I am trying to copy and paste but for some reason it won’t work (it works elsewhere but not here on 411…is that a setting you did for security, Ana? LOL….anyway, you said about not talking to your co, why bother, because it’s walking on eggshells and running the risk of getting yourself in trouble for anything you say to her. EXACTLY why I want to put in place the limited communication stipulation. It was proven time and again that anything either of us said could and was used against us in the court of M. No thank you tongue

  • Kim

    May 1, 2013

    Salaam, Fatima,

    I’m glad my rambling gave you something to think about LOL…at least something besides the fly-ridden deer jerky on your clothesline LOL…this is actually common practice over there. people there do a lot of food preservation via clothesline or just laying it out on newspaper or a sheet in the sun. They do that with a type of squash called Bottle Gourd, or in Kashmiri it’s called “ahl” or something like that. They peel, slice, and lay it out in the sun to dry. The curry they make with it is awesome, but of course there is the fly problem. I tried to just not think about it LOL….I didn’t contract any dreaded disease, so I guess it was ok if you ignore the ick factor. Our ancestors survived, so I guess we will too tongue

    M called N again, I guess after he thought I’d gone to sleep. His back had him laying on the couch all night and I was awake awhile after I went to bed, reading here at 411 LOL…I heard him speaking in Hindi and there was no doubt who he was talking to. I caught enough words to know he told her he spoke to me and wants to go back to her and that I’m not putting up any real objection. We’ll see what happens…..

  • J

    May 1, 2013

    Asalamu Alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh

    Man I had a horrible night SubhaanAllah. I woke up in a panic my heart racing and I felt like I couldnt catch my breath. I’ve been up since 3am. The only thing that got better is I stopped sobbing all the time. This pain is constant dam my heart hurts so much and it feels like someone punched me in the stomach. I hate it. I wish I could feel about this like Kim does, I want to feel like that cause like I keep saying logically makes sense. But i know before I have better days am sure i am going to have even worse days ugh. Gosh now am about to break out in tears. I can already see all the phone calls I’ll be getting from people that never keep in touch about how sorry they feel for me and crap, I definitly will not be answering any phone. And how I need to get a divorce, Islamicly I dont even have a right to ask for one in this case, he gives me all my rights and more, people are just always so negative about this which also makes it harder.

    Fatimah your really funny, i am telling in a few years this will be even more funnier lol. May Allah give you the patience to deal with this inshaAllah

  • Gail

    May 1, 2013

    Kim,
    You are coming along nicely.I myself am thinking along the same lines.Not as far as polygamy but adjusting to not being taken advantage of anymore.I guess u can say I saw it but did nothing about husbands mistreatment of me until now.It is now the 4th day and he is sleeping on the sofa 3rd night in a role.Not that it is abnormal because he always does this when he is not speaking to me.Normally it would drive me insane but not this time I am actually very calm and well to be honest it is a good place for him as far as I am concerned.
    I don’t know but something snapped inside me the last time he mistreated me and refused to talk to me for days and I told him to stop doing that he said he would but as u see again same thing.Well this will be the last time he mistreats me in this fashion because I have decided two can play this game.Listen to this I fixed dinner last night and left it on the stove and fed the kids and made cotton candy for him.He comes in and doesn’t say one word to me he is home like 10 or 15 minutes before the inlaws come strolling in.Didn’t say a word to me even came in my room everything.When his mom comes in and starts complaining to him why I am not eating with them etc.. because she knows he is being a horses A$$ to me I guess she commanded him to come get me to eat.He comes and says softly are you going to eat I said no he said come on I said no I fixed food it is on the stove.He said hateful then why u fix if u are not eating I said because I knew your mom would be tired so I fixed it.I was holding my tongue.So he says no it loos bad for u not to eat after u made it come on.I thought to myself OH YEAH well it was not bad for u to ignore me last night at dinner and give me a go to H@ll look I told him straight I don’t want to eat with any of them (they talk about cowife and her family and it is all malicious talking I just could not take another night of it as it has been going on for the entire month they have been back)Hubby is the worse he ask like a love sick puppy about her and her family yet he says he hates her guts and refuses to fix anything.He is a complete jack A$$.If u don’t want to fix it then at least shut up about it is my motto.Anyway he spouted of to me hateful you don’t have to do anything for me from now on.LOL oh really!!! I mean this is what thanks I get well alrighty then.
    I think it is all down here from here to be honest.I myself am not talking to him anymore or going out of my way to even acknowledge him.I hate to say this but I really believe he has a mental disorder.Everything is pointing towards it.He has serious control issues and if I don’t do like he wants exactlyyy he just flips out and treats me like crap.
    I have plans to take the children out Friday to eat and to maybe see a movie.My two middle children have entered puberty and they are just so excited.I told my daughter we will also go shopping for her first training bra.She is so beside herself excited.lol and my son he is becoming should we say manly.lol my 8 year old is just so over the top excited because he knows he is going to go through it in the next couple of years.IT is so funny to see how excited little kids are to hit puberty.My kids have studied about in school so for it to actually be happening as they study about it is like WOW amazing for them.hahahah It’s cute because for me it is like being a kid all over again with my kids.I am loving it.I am curious have any of u other gals had puberty parties for your kids? I heard of this on tv a few years back and my kids are so excited over thsi event in their lives I thought what the heck lets celebrate it and make a huge deal out of it.lol

  • Hilly

    May 1, 2013

    Assalamu Alaikum and Peace to everyone

    @Ana Just stopping into say hello. Alhumduillah nice new topic. Having a great time with the family,but I am having trouble with this skype thing. It is really getting to me. Very weak I am. Money is tight for phone calls. At times I really can’t handle it. He does not abuse the situation,but oh boy it gets under my skin. This is a main problem for me right now I pray that I will get over it. Just please make pray for me. Inshallah I pray that everyone is going fine and much better with everything and for everyone in their life. Will stop in when I can. Inshallah enjoy your day.

  • Gail

    May 1, 2013

    Fatima,
    Again u had me laughing about the deer jerky.Girl u better get ready she is going to make u taste that jerky.I can just picture it now her shewing the flies off of it and taking a big huge honking bite and passing it to you to try.hmmm yummy yummy for the tummy!!!!hahahahahhahh!!!
    Seriously in Pakiland I would get disgusted at first when we would go out and see all the meat hanging in open I looked at hubby and he just smiled and said flies are free with every purchase.Totally grossed me out.I remember my second day in Pakistan hubby took me out to show me around and I remember him asking me is it different here than USA.I just was in horror and shock and said this is something out of national geographic.Everyone started laughing.Looking back I don’t even think they new what National Geographic was to be honest they just laughed because I was in complete and utter shock.
    Fatima it’s funny because now none of this even phases me now after living with my inlaws for so many years.I have had to teach MIL to use a washing machine and last year MIL got into her head (a woman who has not even one day education) can’t read or write decides she shall learn to drive a car.I explained over and over again it was useless she could not pass the test and she would need insurance to even practice G.D forbid she hit someone she refused to listen to me and hubby said the same thing your hubby said just let her do it to make her happy.She drove up and down are road all year long.I had to explain to the neighbors she was a new driver.It was accepted for the first couple of weeks but she wouldn’t stop it was an every morning deal with her.After awhile I swear the neighbors must have thought she was RETARDED to keep going up and down the road and dang she would brake so hard it would give me whip lash.It was terrible.Trust me when I say that woman is certifiable.Oh another funny thing took them to an all u can eat buffet years ago when they came to USA they were so amazed MIL said oh this is better than marriage party.It was Golden Coral! lol and well to keep going back as many times as u like the woman was astounded and ate like she was coming off a hunger strike! I was so shocked and she just kept offering me a bite of everything on her plate.Oh the memories!!!
    One more thing being raised in USA in a middle class family we never shared food or touched another persons plate EVERRR.It was just considered really horrible manners.I can not tell you how many times I got angry and left my food because people would help themselves to my plate not to mention everyone drinking out of the same glass.They consider rude if u don’t share.All I kept thinking is pass the Hepatitis around.Enough rambling and just think Fatima this is where your husband comes from.lol

  • Jenny

    May 1, 2013

    @ Fatima,

    Oh heavens! You had me cracking up! House guests are so much fun ~ NOT! I cannot have someone stay in my home longer than three days. By the time the third day comes, they start smelling like rotting fish ~ getting on my nerves. When I visit someone, I keep it to the three day rule. Even when I go visit my mother, comes day three, we are ready to rip each others heads off. Three days is plenty, both as the visitor and hostess. More power to you! When does that lovely plane take off? Let’s start praying for some beautiful weather that day! laughing At least the air traffic controller furlough is over! laughing

    @ Gail,

    You never answered my question: Did you ever get any of the leftover jello? I wish I knew what to say to you. Funny, I got the silent treatment from my ex and I always felt I was walking on egg shells. Not a nice feeling. Hubby now doesn’t do that. I could not tolerate the silent treatment. If we are mad at each other, we scream, slam doors, banjoed each other, then we sit on the couch and watch tv. Ding dong comes out with some stupid joke to make me laugh. Several times in the middle of a good fight, something happened at work we needed to drop our fight and take care of together.

    Maybe you are in the same boat as me: are you and hubby together all the time? Hubs and I work together 24/7. We come in to work together, leave together, and we are about 7 feet apart all day. I’m really surprised how we haven’t killed each other. happy There is no way that my ex and I could have worked together. Nope. Maybe you should take the kids camping for a weekend to get away from him. Absence makes the heart grow fonder. Not just for spouses either, any family. When you are not around, he will be chasing you like a bloodhound on a coon! I know when I am away my husband goes nuts; especially, if it right before I am expected home. When I am ready to leave to catch a plane, he is calling me every second ~ probably making sure that I didn’t change my mind about coming back! laughing When you are not around, that is when they learn what they had and miss it.

    More power to you with your in-laws at the house! Good grief, I would have walked in front of a bus by now! I had met quite enough of the family: the nephew and brother-in-law in Florida. They show up on my doorstep from time to time. I invite them in for a soda or tea and a piece of cake then send them on their way. Lots of nice hotels in New York! happy

  • Fatima

    April 30, 2013

    Ohh. Forgot to mention thst along with disbetes..varicous veins… hurting legs…headaches. sistetinlaw now has hemmorrids.. yep.. bought preperation h for that…burned her finger on a pan.. wanted to go to hospital..thought for sure surgery would be required.. but disappointed her when i just applied a balm to the small burn… i swear i thonk she would be happy if she had some kind of surgery..any kind.. long as it was surgery…
    Well.. i guess im not being nice here tslking like this.. GOD FORGIVE ME… ..
    Tomorrows another day….goodnight all

  • Fatima

    April 30, 2013

    @ kim
    Oh i just loved the words you said about polygamy.. you sure enlightened me!
    Really you did.. I never looked at it the way you described..and your so right… we did get along and were happy before we met our husbands.. and what if thy do spend time with a co and do the doo? I never looked at it that way… lol
    Sometimes I think we worry and fret.. for what? You really cannot force or demand someone to stay with you if they dont…. it would never work ..
    I looked at my situation and thought if he leaved me then he leaves.. but he didnt and if he did.. i wont die… the door would be open for the better in myopinion..

  • ~Fatima~

    April 30, 2013

    @ gail.. sorry for my mistyped words.. on this phone is killing m.. I was saying we hung the deer strips like clothes on a clothes line and my neighbors are like wtf is she doing and i must murmerd something like were haning leather to dry.. God help me… I wonder what tomorrow holds for me?? And yes your right.. I bleive now the whold freakin family will be coming soon here .. She does however see how exspensive everything is.. but that does not seem to bother her in the least.. well.. going to call it a night… Glad you got a laugh out of this..lol at least it cheered you up if anything for a minute.. happy

  • Fatima

    April 30, 2013

    @Gail..
    OMG.. if this has been your world for the past 5 years.. God bless you girl
    …. lol.. listen today she wanted to make jerky out of some deer meat we had.. my dear husband says oh just let her..well she hung this rope in my back yard from my house to the shec snd seasoned this deer meat .cu it on strips.. hung them on the rope like a clothes line.. with flys on it an all and she says oh rhis will be good.. ?? My husbnd says now honey dont say anything.. well im not gonna eat it an my neighbirs are like wtf is she doing? I just waved and mumered something like we wer hsnging lesthet…lol.. god help me …….

  • Kim

    April 30, 2013

    Honestly, with the passage of a little time now, I look back on my freaking out over this and wonder why I freaked out. What’s the big deal with polygamy anyway? Why do we women trip out and act like we’re demon-possessed when the mere mention of polygamy comes along? So he spends time, whether daily mundane stuff, dates, or does the do with another woman? SO WHAT? N is alone all the time now. Regardless of her own actions which have contributed to her alone-ness, she’s alone, and lonely. IMO, no one should live that way if they don’t want to. She doesn’t have to be alone. M cares for her, obviously, even after everything, even after all this time apart. SO WHAT? How does any of that devalue, or even really affect me? Did I not exist before the day I met him, did I not have a happy and contented life before he came along? Did that part of me die? NO..Then, why is his presence in my home and in my bed each night now so vital? Answer – it isn’t. It’s a mindgame we play and oh, so self-defeating; we’re afraid the husband will replace us with the other wife…but really, that isn’t very realistic. What man would stay with a wife that he doesn’t want to be with when he has another one? And if he DOES leave, then great….you lived however many years before he came along and you were happy, right? And if he leaves he isn’t who you were meant to be with anyhow.

    Allah puts love for another wife in our husband’s hearts and all the screaming and threats and tears and manipulating mind games will not and can not change that. So why fight what you cannot fight against and make yourself and this man you love so miserable? /thinking out loud

  • Kim

    April 30, 2013

    Aishah, I just got that from M in a roundabout way too! “She’s a good person…she has mental problems, she can’t help that”. Errrrr….I said “if you say so.” He repeated what a good person N is and again I said “if you say so” and he got annoyed. How can I agree when the majority of the “good person” I saw was a veneer for her to manipulate me, him, everyone? *sigh*

    I doubt she’s changed much. But as long as I remain detached, that is his problem way more than mine.

  • Kim

    April 30, 2013

    Hi Gail,

    As I told Ana, I don’t know what to think.

    But man is he ever dropping hints. Yesterday after the N convo in the car, it was random “I love you so much” stuff coming from him. Like he thought I needed to hear it…guilty conscience probably. Today he asked me if I still talk to my friends. I asked which friends, and he said, “you know…the 2 marriages friends”. (he meant this blog LOL). I said sure do. Gave him a quick rundown on what everyone’s doing and how y’all’s marriages are coming along, and he said “wellllll…everyone really needs to be on the same page for this to work.”

    DUH! tongue

    With the exception of Ana, who IMO seems to be the most at peace (probably because she’s been doing this for so long) and she certainly doesn’t share the same book as “C” much less page. I liken myself to her as far as that goes, but I’m at peace with whatever M decides to do. It sounds very much like they will get back together based on what he has said this evening and NO I didn’t bring it up. He’s volunteering this info.

    Gail, he told me he won’t do this without me, and that N won’t do it without me either. I don’t get that, but alrighty. And honestly, while yes I said if he goes back I’m outta here, that was before his condition worsened for one thing, and for another, I honestly can’t think of a compelling enough reason to bail on him. If I put up with it before with all the N drama, I can do it again, with certain stipulations. One being that she will NOT be blowing up my phone with drama. In fact, communication will be limited between she and I to cordial salams. And he has no need to call me while he’s there or vice versa unless it’s important. Like I said, I’m distancing myself and focusing on other things…the world no longer revolves around the mighty M for me. Not that I don’t love him dearly, I certainly do, but he’s not my whole world. Obviously, I’m not his whole world either.

    He just told me a bit ago the whole “I love you so much and I won’t do this without you” business, again. I said, “You don’t have a flippin clue what you’d do without me anyway!”

    So, no, unless things get seriously screwed up and fitnah soaked, I will stay put.

  • Gail

    April 30, 2013

    Fatima,
    Seriously Welcome to my world!!!!! This has been my life for the last 5 years since the inlaws got their freaking greencards.I am so sick to death of this life and being everyone’s servant 24/7 and getting nothing in return.Oh well I guess to be fair I do get the SILENT TREATMENT for having an opinion opposite of hubby.Hubby ignores her because he knows this is normal behavior for those dang people and her wish list not complete even when her butt returns to india.
    They seem all cute and nice but should come with a beware sign attached to there forehead if u ask me.Some would say a lion looks really cute but one wouldn’t want to venture to close for fear of being eaten it’s the same concept with those people.Now u make sure you get her a nice piece of gold so she can go back and tell everyone back home how much she snagged from you on her visit to USA.lol
    I shouldn’t say this but it is truth.I can’t tell you how much money I spend on my inlaws thousandssss.When I go to Pakistan I normally get a shirt as gift that cost max 3 or 4 usa dollars.Now I know it is not nice to keep count but dang I mean really.
    Anyway you will be sure she will give a great report about u and hubby hosting them and I am certain you will be entertaining alot in the future!!!!! Way to go Fatima !!! LOL
    Gosh u have me laughing so hard I really needed that today as I am in a horrible mood!!!

  • ana

    April 30, 2013

    Oh, my surprise, I step away and come back to nine comments to approve. How did that happen? surprise

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Gail

    April 30, 2013

    Kim,
    Sorry I posted before finishing anyway I was curious if u have had a change of heart.I know for me I always am hard for awhile then I mellow out not sure if this is a woman thing in general or if it is just me personally.For what it is worth I am sorry he is turning about face and saying he misses her now it sure says alot about men and how they say we change our minds it seems to me men change their minds just as much if not more.

  • Gail

    April 30, 2013

    Ana,
    I agree Hilly must really be enjoying.The girl is getting her groove on!!
    I on the other hand am in a crappy mood today.I have decided on alot of things since hubby refuses to talk to me it gives me time to sit and stew.lol I am going to purchase myself a vehicle a nice one here.I have not really done anything nice for myself in a very long time.Well to be honest ever since I married hubby sad to say.So I will be buying either a cute sport utility vehicle or a nice mini van.I have decided not to return to Pakistan and just stay in USA.Hubby doesn’t know anything yet and I am pretty certain that should get me a good month of silence from his side when I do decide to spill the beans.
    I don’t know what it is with me these days but I feel more strongly to start detaching myself from him and his insanity.Can u imagine living with a man who refuses to speak to you for days and days on end and then claims he loves and adores you?Honestly the only time i here him saying he loves me is when he is enjoying sex then the I love you flows like milk and honey. I am wondering maybe he is proud of his performance and talking to himself rather than to me.lol
    I don’t know what it is but I am going through this funk where I am getting zero tolerance for my husband and his mind games.

    Kim,
    I am curious here while back u stated u would leave your hubby if he started back up with N

  • Fatima

    April 30, 2013

    Sorry for mistypes..on my phone

  • Fatima

    April 30, 2013

    Also.. i took her to the mall to look around.. my friend ifran has a gold an diamond store.. she lked the necklaces an said how nice.. today she said myb be will give me???wtf? Yeah come to america.. free golg.. free medical….omg…..
    Nephews calling.. bring me laptop… ughhh. My husband acts clueless… he wont take her shopping becos he knowz if he does she will want him to buy her everything…. so when i take her.. yes some thing i dont mind buying.. but come on….
    She brought money to spend but western unions it back to i dia an says she has none.. again..wtf???
    My husband ignores her wishes… but i. Fed up.. nice is nice and goodbye is even better..lol
    Ive bitten my tongue this whe time..sure will be happy when i see the plane i the air…..lol
    Am i being mean?lol

  • Aishah 2013

    April 30, 2013

    Salam hello all.Kim be careful what u invite back onboard right?people who manipulate and game play for their own means don’t change much usually.I would also be OK with acknowledging asking about hub love for other wife.I have in fact.I don’t think he was thrilled with the”after all this time I still don’t get what the appeal is.God must put love in your heart!”he keeps bothering me to speak with Co.I told him if God wanted it to be so would have been friends.said”maybe God has reasons you don’t know for keeping people apart.”but still he tried.he said if pray to God anything can happen.true.I pray to God he stops bothering me about it!happy no I told him it was not happening at this time.I had written him a little note about some stuff (he tends to not listen well enough when I talk about issues.he read it thoughlaughing.I asked him not to ask me or expect me to change have interactioins on a fake level.conversations in which I have to walk on eggshells and I’m always pereceived as doing or saying something that gets me in trouble..why bother I said.so..off to work out.Aishah gotta take care of self!

  • J

    April 30, 2013

    Ana

    “Most of you prolly heard of the seafood diet and been on it- they see food and eat it”..omg LOOOOOOOL I was on verge of tears man my heart was aching and i read that and LOOOOOL

    I agree with you on focusing on yourself and Allah subhaan wa ta’ala. my brain keeps telling me you gotta focus on that lets go, but this organ the “heart” is all over the place. sad

    Because it is only Allah that answers Du’aa and it is only from His mercy we will enter into Jannah. I try to tell my self this is a test and maybe from this maybe this is the ticket into Jannah

    And can someone tell me now that i am in this pain stage…why O why?? am I hearing sappy love songs everywhere I go…its making me miserable My eyes get all red and it feels like my heart is in my throat and I try my best to fight back the tears, As am a niqabi and I would look foolish with it wet hahahahaha.

  • J

    April 30, 2013

    Gail

    How long have you too been married? Sounds like a really long time, happy I am sorry things are hard now with that type of acting, I can see how it can drive a person away. You see my husband is a good man, I married him when I was 17 and in a few months we will be married for 6 years. I came from a very huggy and I love you all the time family. My hub HELL NO lol…his mother until this day doesnt tell him she loves him, I think when he went to Hajj she did lol. That was hard to adjust too. But anyways back to the topic, I think when respect is lost it gets hard in a relationship because their is no boundaries on hurting your spouses feelings. Have you ever Islamicly advised him on his actions??? Like the backbitting him and his fam always talking about the Ex badly. I dont know how your hub is I know some men only use religion on there wives but dont apply it to them selves sadly. But if you do need some pointers I put some below.

    “O you who believe! Avoid much suspicion, for some suspicions are a sin. Do not spy on one another, nor backbite one another. Would one of you love to eat the flesh of his dead brother? Nay, you would abhor it, [so similarly, avoid backbiting]. And fear Allah. Indeed, Allah is Most Forgiving, Most Merciful.” Qur’an, [49:12]

    “He does not utter a [single] word, except that there is, with him, [an angel] ready and waiting [to record it].” Qur’an, [50:18]

    Regarding the last verse angels writing down everything you say is totally scary to me, and knowing that Allah might confront me on the day of Judgement about it, Islamicly when you talk bad about someone its not just a sin, but on the day of judgement that person can take some of your good deeds away from you.

    So since his parents are involved what do they think about the kids not going to school? Maybe you can reason with him more on that?

    I think the marrying the cousin thing is silly though. Because even islamicly both parties have to agree on marrying one another the parents cannot force a marriage that is no not from our religion. It always bothers me. sheesh. As far as the age I got married at 17 and am happy with that decision until this day. But everyone is so different. Maybe your children will not be interested at all in being married that early.

  • Fatima

    April 30, 2013

    @Ana..
    I am with you on the American boys..Gosh I see my friends who are married to american men and wow what a difference. No headache about the whole frakin family and all their problems.. since we had to take sisterinlaw to the hospital for her diabetes.. now she is trying to find anything to go to the doctor for..ughhhh.. she dont csre who pays for it… she thinks its great here and get your medical problems taken csre of… she even asked me today if i can call a skin doctor so her daughtet who is in india an never been here bdfore can come have surgery for scar tisdue on her hand..wtf??.. they think free surgeries here$?…;i said but noone has insurance… youfr only a visitor..
    She is supose to leave monday and now saying ohhh my health is good here.. myb i can stay another month….grrrrrrrrrrr…. my husband is gone all day an dont have to deal with her. Im at my wits end…. im begining to think she came to visit for free medical so she thinks..now shes ssying her legs hurt. Varicous veins… well dont we all… i told her take an advil…. geeesh… sorry im judt venting…lol

  • Kim

    April 30, 2013

    @Ana,

    I probably kind of opened Pandora’s box asking that question on the way to his doctor appointment…but I’d have to be blind not to notice the way he stares over at her apartment building, and the big box she worked at every.single.time we go by there. Add to that a certain melancholy mood he’s been in lately (besides the pain issues). Knowledge is power or somesuch, truth will set you free and all that, so I took a deep breath and let the genie out of the bottle LOL….actually I feel better having asked, even though I know it’s a slippery slope…like I said, I felt a type of way when he said he was going to call her…I didn’t want old habits returning, and sure nuff they did. I know he talked to her for about an hour, and she sent him 2 texts. *sigh* I guess once bitten twice shy, I don’t want to be caught off-guard again.

    However, I’m not that freaked out, really. If it resumes, so be it. I could use the break, and honestly I think it takes 2 of us to take care of this man as he is right now. I’m good with the technical aspects of caregiving, but my bedside manner leaves tons to be desired tongue

  • ana

    April 30, 2013

    @Kim,

    I wouldn’t know what to think either. At times, I don’t know what to think myself. I was thinking today,I need to focus my attention on me, getting myself right with my Lord and the heck, with Alex, Alex and her or her. Life is too short. Allah says save yourSELF and then your family from the fire that is fueled with men and stone. I’m ready to take heed.

    Kim, you are a way stronger person than I am. I pretty much can’t handle certain Truth. You asked him about “N” and he was honest with you. I won’t venture down that road, as I don’t know what I’d hear from Alex and certain things I know I don’t want to hear i dont want to see You know what I’m saying ? I’d rather not know. I’m realistic about things, but I don’t want to know the reality in this particular situation.

    Insha Allah, you’ll get your hubs to the Mayo Clinic and all will be good happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Kim

    April 30, 2013

    @Ana,

    Yep, he went down that road already…,it went all the way to a hearing and he got denied sad Basically we’re starting over from scratch.

    I would MUCH prefer it if Mayo Clinic figures out what the heck it is and can fix it so he can be pain-free and productive rather than laid up and collecting a check. I know he’d rather have that too. So once we have some form of insurance we’re going to get that referral to Mayo and take us a little road trip to Rochester. I’ve been paying out of pocket for everything thus far and it’s really taking a toll on the finances sad

    He did speak with N while I was gone. He won’t say much except she’s working, her mom’s not doing well, and something about how he hates when people cry. IDK if she cried when he was on the phone with her or if he himself was crying (I suspect both, honestly…he looks like he’s been crying, but he is in tremendous pain today too). He won’t offer up much info to me and I just let it go, I’m not going to bombard him with WELL??? type of questions or any questions really. She did ask how I am and how the kids are doing.

    Honestly, I don’t know what to think about it.

  • Gail

    April 30, 2013

    Indah,
    Your a very smart girl keep walking sister and pick up the pace.Here is a very good rule of thumb with these low level backward countries like Pakistan.If u have to get them immigration visas DON”T.If u must have a foreign man think someplace a little bit cool like UK or France,Germany someplace that is fairly equal or above USA standards get my drift.Oh and don’t marry a Pakistani man with say UK citizenship headache is still the same because u still get the almighty gift of the Mother inlaw ruling your life.LOL Yes your best bet is the cute American boy next door.Gosh I wonder what I was ever thinking I have a whole new respect for our sweet American boys they are so easy to train as compared to the Pakistani men.Good luck girl!!

  • Gail

    April 30, 2013

    J,
    I really wish I knew why he acts so horrible towards me just I can only assume I don’t go with his program and he gets irate.He has done this our entire marriage so it is nothing new to me sad to say but this time he has gone to far and I am not putting up with it even one more time so I have decided I am slowly going to move away from him.I refuse to live my life according to what he thinks is right and wrong.Him and I are so mix matched and have been from the start.I have tried my level best with him and I know in a few days he will come back saying sorry but the damage is done now and I feel like I am serving a life sentence for something I didn’t do or provoke.
    As far as cowife she is excowife and has been for the last year but they are cousins and ever since his my inlaws came back from Pakistan last month all I here is negative talk about excowife and her family and I am just sick to death of it.I mean ok a little bit of neaftive talk one can deal and little teasing and laughing but every damn day it is has just got disgusting and the other night he walked into the house in front of his parents and announced his mother inlaw was at his home in Pindi.I don’t know something snapped inside of me and it really pissed me off with him.I feel like he is so stupid (can a person say that about their husband)?The truth is I have lost all respect for him on every single level.He promised he would build me and the children a home instead he is building his parents a home in the nicest area of Pindi.Yeah he says it will be our home yeah my home one I didn’t pick out for myself nor will be able to design yeah I don’t think so.The kids schooling he knows they need to be in school now I wanted to take them back and put them in school so they could study and get degrees like my brother inlaws children he is a cardio surgeon in Paki and is very good there.Hubby said no wait 2 more years just because excowife plans to put a case against him in the paki courts.Again he is thinking about himself and not the children.I could go on and on all day long about his craziness but gosh I am sick of listening to myself type.lol
    I hope u r tight about your hubby I don’t really understand his need to take another wife if u have given him children and u are a good wife to him sounds insane to me .Seems he may be book smart but stupid when it comes to relationships and what makes them work or not work.I can totally relate to u not wanting a cowife as u are going to have to give up half your life to this woman.Have you mentioned that to your dear hubby?I would laugh but it is not funny.

  • ana

    April 30, 2013

    I’m with you all that dieting is “a lifestyle change” and we are what we eat. thumbs up Some of the stuff some people eat, I wouldn’t touch with a ten foot pole. Everyone is on some type of diet, right? Whatever we eat is a diet. Most of you probably heard of the seafood diet and have been on it – they see food and they eat it laughing

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • ana

    April 30, 2013

    @Kim,

    About disability for your hubs, I know each State may be different, but where I live EVERYONE who applies for disability is denied the first time, regardless of what his or her case is. Maybe they want to see how persistent people are i dont know The people I know who have received disability always re-applied, went through the appeal process and got an attorney (I think free) to represent them. They then got approved. It took a lot of patience and perseverance, but eventually they were good to go. I know one person who did all of that and once it was approved, got back payments amounting to about $30,000.00. It’s something to keep in mind when he goes for it again.

    I wish you the best with your diet. Alex supposedly will have us on one beginning May 1, (tomorrow). Works for me. happy He consulted with a nutritionist. I hope your hubs begin feeling better soon.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Fatima

    April 30, 2013

    @J
    I liked the way you puf a diet to a lifestyle… yes it really is… I went from a size 9 to a size 6..a year ago.. eating the right foods and i hate the word exercise so i just say stay in shape..lol
    I eats lots of salads…and fish and chicken and occasional lamb..

    I love walking and do so alot… I keep busy all the time.. but yes its a lifestyle…
    You are what you eat… so my huzband teases me and says im a rabbit..haha

  • ana

    April 30, 2013

    @Indah,

    Welcome to our home. We’re glad to have you here. Thank you for commenting. We’d like to here more about how you met your ex and anything more you’d like to share. Seems you were spared from actually getting married to this man, and finding out things the hard way. You mention he wanted you to live in his country with his mom – surprise Red flag – or Pakistan flag Flag of Pakistan LOL

    I have to run out. Coffee Insha Allah, I’ll be back shortly

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Kim

    April 30, 2013

    Hi J,

    Yes it’s a lifestyle, really. My food choices are much the same as yours right now. Cut out breads, potatoes, rice (ack!) sugar, high glycemic veggies and fruits for now. I’m eating a couple of eggs, a small amount of cheese, turkey bacon, chicken breast, fish, lean After beef, green leafies and stuff like broccoli, zucchini etc. Then after a couple weeks I can slowly introduce whole grains and fruits but moderately. It’s basically the South Beach diet. In addition I’m putting Pandora on my android and sticking on the headphones and power walking through the park 20 minutes in the morning and 20 minutes after dinner. If this doesn’t start giving me some energy and slimming down the waistline I don’t know what will!

    After my walk this morning I was so energized it was ridiculous…I got home and still had the headphones on and Pandora going loud so despite the fact that I was already well into a sweat I was kinda dancing around the living room; endorphins took care of the bum knee at least for a little while lol…M thought I’d lost my mind – I NEVER do that. But exercise does amazing things to our energy level. A lot more than sitting on our butts at the computer or in front of the teevee happy

    So I’m heading out to get some chicken breast and cauliflower (which btw is a great potato substitute). And M informed me he will call N while I’m gone. Well, I won’t lie, I instantly felt some type of way. And of course when he sensed that, he’s all, “well you told me to”. NO I DID NOT. I said I wouldn’t stop him, that’s what I said. He didn’t ask for my consent almost 2 years ago so why would it be implied that he needs it now? Sheesh. I said I don’t think I can accept her as a co after all the crap that happened UNLESS she’s done a real, genuine, total 180. If that’s what he thinks is my non-consent, then IDK what to tell him. I never stopped him where N’s concerned, not once from the day I knew of her til now and that’s the truth. He’s a grown man, he can do what he wants. My life doesn’t revolve around him like it did, and that’s so liberating….so actually, if he does get back with her it’s fine with me on a number of levels even if I don’t personally like the girl. I did it before, I can do it again. Anyway, Allahu alim, period.

  • Carissa

    April 30, 2013

    Thank yu very much Jenny and Gail. Marriage is a crap shoot. My first husband had his green card and was in us military. And he still left me two years ater for a girl Mommy picked out. 23 years and they are still going strong! I do believe in going with your gut. But my gut said K (from last year) was a good guy. And this polygamy thing will work out. Which a week or two ago he contacted me and told me he retired and going back home in a couple of day to his family. He told me he needed four months until we can get married………uh, we have not talked for 6 months. He said if you really love me you will wait. He would not move to US. no legal marriage in us because he would not divorce his first wife. Even just on paper. I told him I was moving on. He should just go home and enjoy hs family and forget about a second wife for right now. Any way, S in Pakistan had always talked about us being together permanently one day. He already had a visa that would allow him to come to us for US for his business. But not to migrate permanently. From what I can remember your business has to be worth so much before they would consider it on that basis. Something like a million dollars or something like that. He was to come here to US for four or five months in the spring for business. He told me he wanted nothing from me, he wanted to make sure everyone knew we were together because we wanted to be. Not because he needed something from me such as a visa. He wants me to come as soon as possible so we can be together and married. I would never insist that he truly divorce his first wife. If “legal” divorce can be obtained without real divorce that s ok with me, one day when I stand before Alah and answer for all my sins and my acts of charity. I hope the good to out way the bad. In sha Allah. But one thing I will never have to answer for is pressuring anyone into divorcing their wife. There are many reasons a man stays married with someone while marrying another. It s their God given right. Who am I to say he can not, or should not have two wives. Maybe it s easier to be second wife if you know before hand as you have always had to share. I do believe they are not physically together. I am not even sure she lives in the same city. That is why I was wondering if there was a way to find a good PI. Your right though, you can not trust locals. I guess I can either take a chance that it will work. Maybe we can wait until his business gets back to the amount he needs it to be before he gets his visa through his business. Even if it takes years. Better for him and me. At least we will both know why we got married. He did want to get married in January Islamically. Then when his visa came through he would migrate to us. We would just meet up every two or three months until then. We were to be married on the beach. But my father died the end of December. And my mother the day after my dad died was told by her doctor she has chirosis of the liver. We have since learned it is stage four. It is the autoimmune type. So very unexpected. Had she drank alcohol we would have expected something like that. But nope. So I have had to tell him I can not be leaving the country for ten days at a time until after my mothers health either stabilized or she passed. That was when he started thinking to just go ahead and migrate to us now to be with me. Not just for him. But for me as well. He wants to be here with me, maybe to help me through this. He has already lost his mom and he knows what it is like. I sound crazy for even wondering what to do. He is a caring guy. Which is a lot more than I can say about my ex. Even if he and his wife are still intimate I personally don’t care. Better than being someone who goes out to get some strange, just to have variety. At least you know that he loves them and any children born of that union will be taken care of. And have a father. Better than my brother whos ex girl friend got married when she was pregnant with his son, and dropped her week old son at her sister in laws house when he was a week old and she let her raise him. Unknown to my brother as she left town after the court ordered paternity test. So we figured she knew he was not my brothers. Low and behold when he was 14 years old paternity test was done and he was my brothers and now my brother is paying 700 dollars a month to her for child support with back chid support. The poor son died in a car accident two years ago and never once received a penny of this money, she receives it all. The sister I law never fought it as she was afraid that she would take the boy back, and after his death we hate to put the woman who raised him through the court system. We just have to know what comes around goes around.

  • ana

    April 30, 2013

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Peace to All,

    Gail,

    To Carissa, you said, “This is life in Pakistan.If you are going to run with the big dogs u better put on your big girl pants and start thinking like a Pakistani.” rolling on the floor You have me rolling on the floor( ROFL) over here. I’ve been reading your posts thus far today and you’ve got me cracking up. I could see you now – a success doing stand up comedy about marriage and Pakistani men? You’re good, LOL.

    Jenny,

    I really liked your post. We really don’t know someone until we’re already in the mix. Most people are on their best behavior until they get what they want and then they begin to let their hair down. We then see their true colors. Even if we do see the red flags in the beginning (When I first met Alex, I saw those flags) we tend to ignore them, as they get in the way of what we want. We don’t want to see them. What it really boils down to is – what will be will be and there is no way to avoid it. To really know people is to know ourselves. But to really know anything, we have to know our Creator.

    Hilly,

    As Salaamu Alaikum. You must be in marital bliss. I’m waiting patiently to hear from you, once you come up for air laughing

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Kim

    April 30, 2013

    Hi J,

    Yes it’s a lifestyle, really. My food choices are much the same as yours right now. Cut out breads, potatoes, rice (ack!) sugar, high glycemic veggies and fruits for now. I’m eating a couple of eggs, a small amount of cheese, turkey bacon, chicken breast, fish, lean After beef, green leafies and stuff like broccoli, zucchini etc. Then after a couple weeks I can slowly introduce whole grains and fruits but moderately. It’s basically the South Beach diet. In addition I’m putting Pandora on my android and sticking on the headphones and power walking through the park 20 minutes in the morning and 20 minutes after dinner. If this doesn’t start giving me some energy and slimming down the waistline I don’t know what will!

    After my walk this morning I was so energized it was ridiculous…I got home and still had the headphones on and Pandora going loud so despite the fact that I was already well into a sweat I was kinda dancing around the living room; endorphins took care of the bum knee at least for a little while lol…M thought I’d lost my mind – I NEVER do that. But exercise does amazing things to our energy level. A lot more than sitting on our butts at the computer or in front of the teevee happy

  • ana

    April 30, 2013

    @Gail,

    You made me laugh when you said to Fatima, “I used to be sweet and trusting same like you until I did time in Pakistan.”

    Jail Prison Prisoner I didn't do it Innocent Smiley Smilie Emoticon Emoticons Animated Animation Animations Gif photo Jail02.gif

    I think you are about the only one here who has done “time” there meaning lived there for an extended period with the people up close and personal and experienced their way of life and the culture first hand. You’re still dealing with it daily (with your in-law, your husband and the daily dialogue there about it) although you’re now living in the U.S. A lot of what I’m learning from you about Pakistani marriages is an eye opener. My eyes have been opening slowly and then closing, but I’m beginning to see clearly now.

    Could you contribute your husband shutting down on you to the mental turmoil he’s undergoing regarding his ex-co, the family there and your life here? He’s processing and dealing with a lot psychologically.

    You’ve got your hands full knowing your husband intend to do the cousin marriages with your children. Wow, that’s not cool… I can’t imagine being married to someone I didn’t have a say in the matter about and someone whom I didn’t love. Yuck. Marriage has enough difficulties in it let alone getting off to a start like that

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • J

    April 30, 2013

    kim

    What does your diet consist of?? You should get in shape for yourself you will feel amazing and proud. You should erase the diet word and make it a lifestyle change inshaAllah happy thats what i did about a year ago. And its very hard for the first 3 months, as I cut out rice, potatos, pasta. Now my dinners only consist of a salad, veggies either baked or sautted, and some type of meat of fish. But at the beggining on fridays was always a cheat day I had either some carb or a fried food Even hub eats this way not and he lost tons of weight. Now that iam dealing with this pain ive been excersing like crazy