Polygamous Wives-Are they Friends?

Hi Ana! Long time between posts… I was wondering how you were going.

Let's say Carolinah was someone you really liked… someone you enjoyed spending time with… Let's say you loved and cared about one another… Don't you think that would make your life happier?

As salaamu aalaykum
I say no. Beyond being courteous I don't think there is any obligation on your part to be friends with her.

NOW have you noticed that you referred to her as "My husband's wife"? is that another milestone for you? to be able to say...crap...that b!tch is really married to him. Do I dare ask if we will be seeing the title of co-wife after her name? or instead of using husband's wife?

((ducks and runs))

I understand… If polygamy is not something you want, it would feel like a massive betrayal for a friend to marry your husband.

I guess I was just wanting to put a different slant on the question you asked, when you said:

'Should I try to make life easier for my husband Alex by befriending his other wife Carolinah? Would being her friend actually make my husband’s life easier or more complicated?'

I wanted you to think about what would make Ana's life happier too. (I avoided the word 'easier' because I don't think it's always easy to love — especially not someone who has hurt you so deeply.)

I've been doing a course with my church over the last few weeks, and last week was about forgiveness. In the small-group discussion, I shared about someone I am having trouble forgiving — someone who hurt a friend of mine. To put it bluntly, I would like to punch his head in. Others in the group made the point that when we don't forgive, we're not so much hurting the other person as we are hurting ourselves. (Putting aside all desire to inflict bodily injury that is!) It's true. Unforgiveness and bitterness eats away on the inside and makes us miserable. Forgiving someone doesn't necessarily mean you have to be friends with them though.

Ana,
I interpret your recent post as meaning that you have decided that you will not let yourself be demeaned by this situation anymore. If that's true, then I say congratulations. Also, I believe that God tells us how we should behave. God does not tell us how we should feel.

I don't think co-wives being friends will make the husband's life easier,especially if you're not living together.I say....do what makes you happy.Afterall,that's what hubby did,isn't it?

The less i see and hear from #2,the better i feel.She was becoming to much a part of my life,and i was consumed with thoughts of her and hub being together.

Now,algamdulilah,i'm concentrating on MY relationship with hub and enjoing the time we have together instead of spending that precious time arguing about her.

Don't worry sis,you seem to have grown tremendously already and you will only get stronger,aameen.

Luv and salaams

Ana, your statement "I believe God controls the feelings in the heart" was interesting. That must be a feature of Islam. I'll think about it. I certainly concur that one of the ways we relate to God is through our feelings.

I simply don't feel, instinctively, that God controls me. My relationship to God has to do with devotion, and seeking, and compliance etc...But as I say, I'll think about it, and get back to you.

OK. I understand.

My first time trying this. I dont understand all the hostility here to the second wife. The idea that a wife can expect a husbands exclusive love and time belongs to the western world. It is not islamic in origin. A husband can love his wife with great intensity and pashion and yet very much desire the company of another woman too. It is part of the way that Allah (SWT) has made us men. It is also surely part of islam to want for your sister what you want for yourself. Is hating the other wife and threatening the husband with divorce right? May Allah (SWT) help and guide us all. I have been on the receiving end of all of this. I remember once reading a passage from a book by Naima Roberts called "from my sisters lips" where she describes wanting her husband to marry her best friend because she felt that he would be good for her too. This struck me as the way it should be. Speaking as a husband, yes, it would be wonderful if my wives got along.

Abdul, your comment: "The idea that a wife can expect a husbands exclusive love and time belongs to the western world. It is not islamic in origin."

Aren't some of the Muslims on this List part of the western world? Doesn't Islam exist in the western world?

Abdul Karim,

Why do men want two wives when they can't handle one marriage? What is the point of polygamy? To satisfy greedy and lustful men?

You said, "It is part of the way that Allah (SWT) has made us men." What about the way Allah has made women? Why men, only men? No wonder the Muslim world is in such a mess. Review the Qur'an and accept all the verses in their entirety about polygamy. Here's what Allah says in the Qur'an:

Allah says to have one wife if you know what is best for you. In another, (4:129), Allah says men are not made with two hearts. No matter how hard they strive, they cannot treat both equally in terms of emotions.

Didn't I answer this?????

Abdul Karim, we welcome you here and are happy you joined us.

I'd ask men that are polygamous or considering polygamy to take a moment to imagine how a man would feel if he knew another man was having intimate relations with his wife. What thoughts would go through his mind? What feelings would surface? How would he react?

Now imagine a woman in polygamy having that feeling, having those feelings, and having those thoughts every time her husband goes off to climb into bed with his other wife. Now imagine what a woman goes through not once, but over and over and over again when her husband leaves her, knowing he's going to climb into bed with another woman, and won't be coming home that evening.

You asked why I have hostility to second. It's because she imposed herself on me and turned my life upside down, but she could not have done it without my husband. She refused and refuses to communicate with me, but accepts sleeping with my husband and reaping financial benefits. Do you think that's OK (from the perspective of us all being accountable for our actions)?

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Umm Rahmaan, you're so cute I mean it in a very nice way.

I located your comment in which you speak of "crap on a stick" -the insignificance of a wife being unattractive. You speak of friendship and much more there. It was tremendously helpful for me to re-read your comment. I'm more receptive now to what you said opposed to then.

Your reply is under "Polygamy Explodes." It can be accessed by putting Polygamy Explodes in the search.

Bro Abdul Karim, I enjoyed your comment!!! ...especially the part where you said: "A husband can love his wife with great intensity and passion and yet very much desire the company of another woman too. It is part of the way that Allah (SWT) has made us men." It helps to know there are other men who think like my husband!!! Alhamdulillah, may Allah grant you success in your marriages, and may HE allow mine to reach such idealistic level.. Aameen!!

The example of the wives of the Prophet(saws) are our best guide.. in every situation, not just polygamy!! How they dealt with each other... how they lived their lives!!

Also, IT IS a western notion to think we OWN our husbands... or our children for that matter... We do not!! they are just a 'trust' and an instrument for us to do good and gain closeness to Allah. We must not loose sight of the 'destination' by distracting ourselves with the 'pebbles (or boulders) on the road'...

All I've said is a reminder for me first... as things are certainly easier said than done!!! still, Islam is Truth and I trust that WHATEVER happens in my life is for the Best... since Allah(swt) knows me better than I know myself.

Um Umari,
Allah absolutely knows us best. That is why Allah says to marry one if we know what is best for us. Unfortunately, some Muslims think they know better than Allah and ignore Allah's message. Also, I would never compare myself to the wives of the Prophets (PBUT) because they were special. And, I certainly would hope that Muslim men do not compare themselves to the Prophets because Prophets were chosen and had a special role -- that is to deliver the message to mankind.

Questions: (1)Are you the "desired" other woman? Is this why you justify Abdul Karim's perception of Islam and polygamy?

(2) Have you researched polygamous households to conclude if the spouses and children are psychologically and emotionally sound?

Islam is based on knowledge. I'd be curious to learn about your finding.

You guys are comfortable using so many different names for the same person that dim wits like myself have taken to reading posts a few times to figure out which response traces back to which input. That's OK, work never hurt anyone, but a lexicon for dummies wouldn't hurt either!

To What's up: Salaams sister! I think the one who should educate herself is you!! I am not the 'desired one' I am the FIRST wife. and I have studied polygyny, and the verses in the Qur'aan.. Have you studied at a Madrassah? Have you sat with any 'Ulemah and discussed this topic?? I have, and so I can understand, like many other sisters do, that a man is created different than a woman and therefore has different needs. I can understand the meanings of different Ayaat in the Qur'aan... which seem to contradict each other yet they are talking about different things and were revealed in different circumstances. If the Qur'aan was meant to be taken 'face value' there would have been no need for the Prophet(saws) to 'explain' it.. or to 'live' it... If we are sick, are we able to 'treat' ourselves, no, we go to a specialist.. Similarly, Allah(swt) tells us to "go and ask of those who know", so that is what we should do before engaging in futile talk and irresponsible ignorant remarks.
We are not put in this world to question Allah's commands. Of course Polygyny is NOT for everyone, but it is an option given to man, if he needed. Nobody is saying it is a 'walk in the park', each person has his/her own experiences, but it is a right given to men and we, as wives, have two choices: "Accept and struggle, knowing the rewards in store for us", or "Ring out, and find happiness someplace else". ..and that's that, I've said enough! Wa Assalamu'alaikum wa Rahmatullah!

UmmumarNY,
I have a question. Does a wife, within the context of Islam, have the right to “Ring out, and find happiness someplace else” as you said? I thought that the initiative for divorce lay entirely with the husband. Is that not so? Furthermore, since a wife knows that her husband has the right to take a second wife, he has therefore done nothing wrong in taking one, how would she justify her decision to leave? Those are several questions I realize, but I am puzzled by your assertion because I did not think a wife had these options, nor did I think she would find "happiness someplace else" in Muslim society if she took that option for herself. Thank you very much.

Judith, thanks for the question!! Yes, you are right, the decision to 'leave' is with the husband, so then what option remains? ..to Accept, right??!!! So then why are we having all these arguments!! ha!! I said "ring out" to prove this point. If there is communication in a marriage, and the wife if really unhappy and would prefer to leave, perhaps the husband will let her go and both may find happiness that way, who knows... The point is that in Islam we believe that whatever happens comes from Allah (Qadr Allah) whether we feel it is good or bad, so to accept and try to make the best of it is the best course. You see how I said "try to make the best of it"... We are humans and feelings will be there, it is natural! I don't deny that, but a true believer will 'stick through it' knowing the reward at the end and pray to Allah for the 'good' in it. I hope this answered your question, and I hope we can conclude this topic here!! We are all entitled to our own opinions and nobody has the right to 'judge' another, only Allah has that right!
Keep well, wa Salaams!!

Thank you so much UmmUmarNY, for helping me out with my question, which you answered very succinctly. May you keep well also.

I have always approved every comment/reply that I have received unless it was spam. Comments are trying to get through now that are undoubtely debate oriented and argumentative. (We cannot engage in debate here about Quran and Hadith) The comments are not related to polygamy in anyway, and will not be approved. I am posting this simply to save the writer time and energy in writing and sending anymore of them.

Ana

Ana,

A simple question that should be debated is, "Should the hadith (men's words) conform to the Qur'an (Allah's words), or the Qur'an conforms to the hadith?

I absolutely believe that the hadith should conform to the Qur'an.

Moderator: Thought everyone is welcomed. Why not post my comments?

Ana,
Thank you for recent post. Previously, though I was starting to grasp what it is you want and don't want for this blog, I didn't quite understand it. Now that I have read your recent post, I understand much better what you want for this blog.

I have from time to time, watched a professor teach a class. I listen to what she is trying to say, and I can almost simulataneously see her words being retranslated in the minds of the students back into what they already know. (And then the students go on to reproduce just what they already know, without incorporating the new idea.) I have tried to tell professors from time to time, that it is not enough to introduce a new concept to a student by telling them what it "is." Sometimes, one must simultaneously tell them what it is "not." In this way, some students make a bridge to a new way of thinking.

So, your last post helped me make the bridge.

Judith, I really appreciate your comment about learning. I've learned so much about learning and about myself from reading your comment. What you said is very interesting. I like the way you phrased it. You've probably helped many of us "make a bridge to a new way of thinking." I know you certainly helped me. Thank you much Judith!

Its interesting how you say you can forgive your husband but not Carolinah. True, she insinuated herself into your life, but he let her in. It is he who most owed you loyalty and fidelity, not her. And yet it is she who you can not forgive. You are hardly alone in reacting like this, Like Ed Cibriani's wife calling Leanne Rimes a stalker, and Elizabeth Edwards bashing the other woman. Is it because you love the man, so must forgive him, while have no need to forgive her? Is it because we sorta expect men to be weak, but women are supposed to be able to control themselves sexually, so he is a fool, but she must be a master manipulator? So men are made to have a wandering eye, women are made to having raging jealousy, true, but then they are most likely to take out on the other woman. So works out pretty great for the guy in both cases. I guess that's why polygamy is "allowed".

Slms ana am glad u dont allow interpretations of the Quran n Hadith coz ppl take passages at face value n thats y beautiful Islam is such a misunderstood religion today. Each person translate it to suit themselves givin Islam a bad name. Our goals in life should be to attain the Luv of ALLAH SWT

ana hate is a strong word n u ar too kind 2let it b part of u.. Labelling carol (your rival) is never goin 2 allow u 2 liberate yourself. Know that ego (anger jealousy hate self pity envy) enhances itself with conflict. Most of your thoughts,emotions n actions arise from Desire n Fear. Kill these 2 n u wil FIND the Real U within u

Shireen, As Salaamu Alaikum. I totally agree with you that our goal in life should be to attain the luv of Allah SWT.

I appreciate all your comments. I'm contemplating them and I think many others are doing so, as well. I find many of your comments very insightful and enlightening.

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Ana I want to share inspirational words of Eckhart Tolle "Human interaction can be hell or it can be a great spiritual practice. Know that the dreamlike quality of human existence seemingly so solid n yet so fleeting that it could dissolve at any moment"
These words are so apt and true and kinda jolts us to the reality of how temporary our lives are. Makes one think WHY NOT spend precious time on THE CREATOR instead of The Creation. Can creation truely make u happy?? I seriously dont think so !! No one can make another feel happy (at least not for long) coz there is always a want and desire for more or something else u need to feel happy. Our egos are never fully satified always seeking more to feel complete. We need to break the egoic conditioning and be grateful for wat we hav. The more we thank ALLAH SWT the more grateful we will become and appreciate every little thing we experience. Look for the good in everything and we wil succeed in the Jihad with our nafs(ego) Inshallah.

Ana, the first problem I am having now regarding this potential polygamous marriage is that my husband has agreed with the woman to 'keep everything separate' (you see decisions are already being made without my consultation). So, when asking questions about the sister like her name, I am not obliged to know her name. Apparently the sister did not even want my husband to tell me he was marrying her?! Can you believe this?! She doesnt want to get married until after Ramadahan.Also she is making suggestions about how the days should go, this is ALL before I even knew about this marriage. I had a row with my husband last night about the contact he is having with her before they are married as he seems to be talking to her a few times a week. I said that he shouldnt be having contact with her until they are married unless ofcourse it is concerning the nikah (7 weeks from now). He said that thats rubbish and how are they supposed to get to know each other. From my perspective they are not married yet, so therefore she is just another woman, she is not halal for him so there should be no communications, this can open up the door to Shaitan. I have yet to consult with the Imam about this but as far as I know it is not the correct behaviour. He said its not my business to interfere with this side of things as its got nothing to do with me. Im just so angry with him and I cant understand why her requests are put before mine. Imagine the marriage has not even happened and this is how things are.
Azra.

Azra, I am all too familiar with what you have described. I totally believe the sister does not want you to know she is going to marry your husband. I can only guess her rationale for making that request.

It happened to me as well, my husband's other wife not wanting me to know anything about her. I had to conduct my own investigation to find out everything about her. (Her last name, what she looks like, where she lives, where she works. I even went to see her home and checked out her work place, everything). Of course I wouldn't suggest you do that at all. I think you should know who your husband is marrying and where he will be living when he's not living with you. He should tell you.

About decisions being made between your husband and the other sister without consulting you, I'd suggest you remind him that we as Muslims are supposed to conduct all our affairs with mutual consultation. Suggest to him that the two of you begin doing it now to help things go as smoothly as possible. Let him know that the decisions he and she are about to make will significantly impact your life and you should have input about what's going on so you could make informed decision in your life, as well. There is no compulsion in Islam. You shouldn't be forced to accept whatever they decide.

I'm still baffled about why some husbands start putting the news wives' wants, needs, desires and demands in front of those of his previous wife. Perhaps my husband does it because he feels there's nothing I really need, only things I want and she has real needs, needy needs. I really don't know how that works with men. Maybe one of the polygamous men will come forth and let us know one day.

I'd recommend you be a part of the schedule making process, as soon as possible, if you can. I was too distraught over what I was going through and in denial that I had to live my marriage on a schedule. I left the scheduling for my husband and his other wife to determine. The schedule was all based on her days off from work and what was happening in her life. I don't know why I thought for a moment it would be otherwise.

Regarding his communications with the sister, I would just leave that alone. It's only going to create more hostilities between your husband and you right now. He's going to see and talk with her, regardless (Allah knows best). I've always known persons who were intended to communicate before the nika, knowing they weren't supposed to. I think that should be the least of your concerns right now. He's going to be living with her off and on (on a schedule) very soon, if you stay or all the time if you leave him.

I think determining how the schedule would work is important for you right now. Do you have any expectations as to what time he'll arrive to be with you and what time he'll leave you to be with her? Should you meet her now? Where is he going to keep his belongings? Is he going to travel back and forth with luggage? Will he communicate with you when he's with her? There are many questions like those.

I'd surmise your husband's intended is feeling like a special prize right about now and wants you to be the insignificant one. She wants control, the upper hand. So now what to do?

As Salaam Alaikum,

What a very interesting blog. I am learning much. I an engaged to a malaysian woman. Early in our relationship we discussed the polygamy option. She has no problem with it. But I have seen and heard many rough stories about it. I made a promise that if i ever chose that option that she would have to be involved because it is all about the family. I wouldn't want to get involved with another woman without her involvement. It just only seems right. Why lie, why hide? Honesty, disclosure and trust is soo important to me. Thank you for alowing me to express my humble opinion. Allah bless us all Amin.

Rahsid Jackson, As Salaamu Alaikum, welcome. I am glad you have joined us.

I'm happy you are enjoying the blog. I'm learning a lot from everyone here as well, and having a wonderful time while doing it.

You've brought us joyous news about your upcoming wedding. I pray Allah blesses your union immensely. Communication is definitely a key to a successful marriage. You and your intended seem to be off to a very good start. Both of you are so wise to discuss polygamy from the onset; it will ward off a whole, heaping lot of future problems, Insha Allah.

You appear to be a very kind, caring person who would make a wonderful husband based on what you've said above-your idea of family, respect for mutual consultation, and honesty.

I thank you for honoring us by expressing your humble opinion!

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Lets take it from this stand point, if you don't mind if you or the other wife or wives were to die, and she had children of your husband you would be the one to raise or help in the raising of the children, Is it a good thing for children to sense tension or anger between parents? Is it good for children to see parents angry and then all of a sudden look at you to be their mothers? Do you think the children will not see or feel the dislike and feel torn between the parents and later disrespect the parents in the fact you hated my mother and now she is dead and you want me to like you? I'm a 4th wife and tho my family is not in full agreement of this they always looking and asking on the children of my co wives, why because I did not bring up my children to look at any child or family member in a bad way. When i 1st entered this marriage i had great hopes to have 3 sisters, in laws, step children more to love and share my life with. My ideas were shattered very early on by my co wives in more ways then any of you could ever imagine, however its been 5yrs and im still struggling hard to keep trying to make it work for Allah so it cant be said i did not try, to myself for my own heart and peace, for the children so they never have to wonder bad things about me and their mothers, and for my husband to give him some peace of mind

Khadijah, wow, you're the fourth wife...I don't know what I'd do if two more showed up on my scene. I'm trying to maintain my sanity as is. Things are looking way up and are much better, but I still have my days.

It doesn't sound like dealing with co-wives is easy anywhere. I would imagine it's even more difficult the more wives there are.

I'm wondering what Dr. Omar would say regarding how we should deal with them. He mentioned I stay away from Carolinah and leave her alone.

I like the point you made about the children and the effect confrontational co-wives has on them.

I pray Allah blesses you for your continued efforts to make it work between you and your co-wives. I believe it is better sometimes to leave those alone who are resistance, as the more we try to sway them our way, the more resistence we continue to receive. I guess it goes back to what we chase runs from us and what we run from chases us.

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Salaam To All,

Rashid has the right perspective. The moment a man excludes one of wives from the decision making process, he demeans her. The insult runs deep in a woman's heart because she is his companion and witness in life, his prayer partner and most intimate friend and counselor. This is like a king have a Defense Minister excluding that minister from all intelligence regarding a postential threat to national security.

Of course, in this instance, the man doesn't see the new wife as a threat but he should. If he doesn't, then he demonstrates a lack of sensitivity and wisdom regarding the first wife's position as God's gift to him. The point here is that any new wife needs to be an asset to the growing family, and thus she must be seen as an asset to all involved; someone who will ass benefits and not take them away from all.

For example: in marriage, the second wife agreed to live with us and lend a hand in all household management, including my baby with the first wife. As a result, the time I spend with her causes no ill will, because she has not only contributed to my well being, but also to the well being of my first wife and child. In return, I agreed to help her and her oldest child (she was a widow for 13 years) financially until the latter could stand alone.

Now what am I saying? Polygamy is being approached wrongly by most people. Instead of being a benefit, it is becoming a sourse of fitna and fitan. Why? Because the basic principle that governs most new marriages is that of division rather than unity. That's why the wives of the Prophet are called "The Mothers of Islam" all of them!

They lived together, worked together, shared the daily task of dakwah together, gathered intelligence for thei husband, and aided each other in need. Forget the petty jealousies,,, these are of no significance other than to teach the lesson that jealousy is Satan's tool and that Allah was prepared to trash them all if they didn't cease and desist immediately!

Now my wives love each other, shop together, take turns cooking, cleaning, washing and sexing. They are, as a result, freer than previously and the marriage has benefitted everyone. My second wife has her own house buy the way, but she chooses to live with us because her life is then more fulfilling.

Now ... this is the correct attitude and posture of any woman entering polygamy. If she truly loves the man, she will understand that causing him to have a separate household is detrimental to everyone concerned and extrememly selfish on her part; indicattin she has not embraced the true spirit of Islam. Thus, polygamy is a lamp indicating the True Spirit of Islam: that you should want for your sister want you want for yourself.

As for the husband. Hmmmm.... you can now understand what a rock he must be while at the same time remain soft enough for his wives to throw their hearts into the pillow of his genuine concern yet firm sense of governance. Any man who wants a separate household is a fool who's not embraced the sunnah and is making innovation; and furthermore, is hiding something from the excluded wife. Even if circumstances require a second household, they should both be be within hailing and visual proximity.

Enough for now. I hope this gives you food for thought.

wasalaam,

dr omar

Salam everyone.
I'm really glad I came across this website, it is really enlightening. Jazakillah Ana for initiating. I didn't realize I have so many kindred spirits out there who are going through the same situation as me.

Now on Dr. Omar's article...hmmm, I agree on some parts and disagree on others. First I agree that the unity of the wives must be the priority of the husband. This is the only way to move the family forward and make the best of polygamous marriage. Squabbling wives are not just bad image for the community but a headache to the husband and heartaches to the wives.

But I do not agree that the best/only way to achieve this is sharing the same household. I admire those who can do this, especially the subsequent wives because they are the ones who have to adjust the most and deal with all types of rejection especially from grown up children of the husband. I have been through this arrangement and after about a year of this, I had to get out. Its a mixture of many things- insecurity, jealousy, awkwardness,...etc. I felt that having my own turf is the best arrangement for me and I was right. I do not fight with the other wives (anymore)and except for a few undercurrents now and then, we pretty much have settled into our roles.

I would like to add that nowhere in my study of the lives of the ummul mu'mineen that I read they share the same house. I think it is more of they share the same compound but live in separate apartments. Arab women are notorious for their dominant character and jealousy and if one read between the lines of the story of their lives in relation to their relationship with the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), they had their share of petty quarrels, too. But the most important lesson that their lives convey is that seeking the pleasure of Allah is put above all their desires. They race to please the prophet and convey the message of Islam in their own ways.

Living in the same household maybe the ideal situation but this can only work for women of certain characters. Others would prefer to live close to the other at least. In our family, what we try to do is to get the whole family together (3 wives and 10 children) as often as possible. It is a way to get the children closer and bonded as brothers and sisters. Wallahu alam.

Regards to all

Salaam To All,

Naimah is correct. Living together is not for everyone and it does take a certain character to do this, on the part of all concerned. It is a mindset that counters most of what has been acquired over the centuries from materialism's gain on the ummah. But more than this, it is a mindset that counters the anti-social tendencies that have accumulated from the Occidental Worldview and its emphasis on the 'individual' rather than the community.

Of course the wives of the prophet had squabbles, but these were minor compared to what I've been reading here. Naimah's situation seems to have been resolved in an amicable manner, and one that is practical too. Alhamduillah, and this was certainly the case with Mirium, the Christian wife of the Prophet. She was the only one who was forced to live apart.

Their situation was not complicated by children, but they did live together, in separate "huts" ... one next to the other, all lined up in a row (row huts), and with dirt floors covered by carpets, and all against one wall of a Mosque that had no roof. There was no way they could avoid each other, and their huts were very small. This was one of the examples set by the "Mothers" of Islam.

Not many women could do that today,,, men either.

Each family and each individual has their own jihad against the soul's self-centered inclination, and each individual has their degrees of success and failure in this struggle. What disturbs most men is the animosity many wives demonstrate towards each other. They are perplexed by the squabbles and fail to understand why women arch their backs and let fly their feathers so readily.

Much of this is because of insecurity and fear. But when selfishness is added to the basic insecurity (a lack of iman), rather than acting like humans, the animal aspect of the sub-human instinct takes over and Satan has a field day tearing the Muslimah's apart and disturbing the husband's peace of mind. The purpose of Islam and Allah's guidance via Al'Qur'an and the Prophet's Sunnah is to help us rise above this and behave in a truly human manner with compasasion and concern for each other. The law (fiqh) is given because Allah knows that most people cannot do this and are imprisoned by their naf's desires and fears.

The greatest benefit of polygamy's trial therefore, is to demonstrate taqua and the jihad's success. I realize I am speaking of ideals, but these ideals are not impossible. I know this personally because I and my wives are living proof that the ideal can be met, but only with the help of Allah, and only with the guidance of a man who has dedicated himself to being the "Best of Muslims" ...

I say this because the husband is the key factor for the success. He is the Imam, it is he who calls to prayer and calls the household into order. Without sincere prayer on the part of the husband,and his seeking of knowledge and guidance on how to meet each wife's needs accordingly, order cannot be maintained because the wives will lose their fear of Allah and descend into viscious cycles of sub-human behavior. Only the pious wife will not do so ... it is she who will withdraw from the fray with patience and faith.

Now circumstances place people in positions where perhaps they have no choice but to obey or accept something they may not like. This is a truism for most of us. My second wife is 9 years older than my first wife, but i prefer her as a bedmate. My first wife did not like this, even though i prefer her as a counselor (consort). I discussed this with her extensively, and when she understood the physiology involved and that she could do nothing to change the reality and that it or the new wife did not affect my love for her negatively (rather the contrary is true), she accepted the situation and it then became a blessing for her. But i had to guide both her and my second wife into the land of compatible understanding, and for this, I needed Allah's guidance and knowledge.

To my advantage, both women are intelligent and most importantly, humble. My second wife was a widow and could not find a decent man for 13 years of searching. Her circumstances caused her to do three things she would never had done on her own. 1) Marry a married man 2) convert to a religion that was considered "evil" by her own people (Buddhists) 3) live with that man and his other wife and child far away from her family and people ...

When I relate our story to people here (Malaysia), especially when they see the four of us together, coming and going and always with smiles and laughter ... they are shocked but drawn like moths to the flame we have lit by Allah's leave. "Not for me" says almost every woman! ... but not the men! They are indeed jealous and seek to know my secret!

I will relate that "secret" as time goes by, insh"allah. For the moment, I think I've given you enough to think about.

Wasalaam,

dr omar

in some aspects Dr i agree but in mine it cant happen. My husband asked us all what if we all live in a same home but separate bed rooms? All 3 said yes and i said no and then he asked me why. I stated this: when we are all together many or all try and take the persons whole day but when it falls on their day and usually it means Jummah they want all to go early bcos they have plans and this also seems to fall on the eid's also. when it is a reg day your not sharing many times they will spend the entire day and night calling to disrupt with out there being any emergency so i told him ok but be prepared for this and that instead of calling all day and night they will be knocking and sending the children and do not forget how many times they are doing or saying very bad things to each other and fighting and there will never be any peace, so he just looked at me and said yes for them your right and it would make things much worse. I told him you can do fo them but i want my own home away or at least a few streets away. He never brought up this idea again. Some have no problem in this but i feel it is in how it is arranged in the very begging meaning a meeting before the marriage, and seeing how well they get along. but to just go and do and then say ok i took another wife and ill not be here for days, a husband taking preference in a certain wife for love, youth or beauty and leaving the other wives to ponder alone knowing this wife is more wanted or loved leaves a bad taste in the mouth of the other wives. doing more for 1 wife and actually leaving the others to go with out for same reasons and not caring or stating what is the problem in this as if it is seen brings bad feelings to those wives so. the bottom line is do it right from the very beginning or pay the price with your sanity and your childrens lives disrupted

As Salaamu Alaikum Khadijah Z,

I think you made the right decision not to live all four of you wives with your husband in one household. I think in Islam it's unacceptable, unless of course there's some type of temporary situation, an emergency such as a fire or some type of tragedy that warrants a temporary arrangement.

I simply say this as it was not the way of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) that his wives all lived together. It's not sunah. The very men that run around reciting what's sunnah, are the very same men that have their wives all living in one household.

I think Muslim men put their wives all together in one dwelling out of selfishness. If they can't afford separate dwellings for each wife, they should only have one wife. Many men put undue pressure on a woman by telling her she must agree to the arrangement in order to be married to him. Some women submit, as they want to be married. It's not Sunnah.

I see so many problems that could result from women living together in one household. I think it puts undue emotional and psychological burdens on wives.

In no way am I trying to take anything from non-Muslim households that practice polygamy with the families all living together. Everyone is entitled to their way of life and I respect that right.

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Islam all,
Khadijah Z you said "the bottom line is do it right from the very beginning or pay the price with your sanity and your childrens lives disrupted" and I completely agree. The messed up foundation that I have dealt with has been the doom of our polygynous "marriage" situation and I cant stress this enough. I think that agreement and articulation of marriage terms in the contract is essential so that everyone knows what to expect, what is and isn't acceptable and will be held accountable by said contract. Toward the decline of the household when I attempted to leave the first time, I asked my "husband" for a separate home although I did not want to. I agree with dr. Omar that wives should live in one home or close by to one another because my sect of Islam practices polygyny for the sake of nation building and collectivity and community, the ummah. I understand that polygyny is not about any one woman, while each woman should be respected and given her due, she should also be seeking to help her husband's house run more smoothly and to build her husbands house and lineage and this is done better through communal efforts when wives are in harmony with one another. I asked that my "husband" consider buying a duplex or triplex home so that we could have our own units in the same house as we'd tried moving myself into the existing home unsuccessfully. He was receptive to this idea, but he never did get around to taking those preliminary steps, partly due to finances. So now, he says he wants to do that for me, for us, but doesn't have the means right now.
That brings me back to Ana's statement that and a previous one of my own about a mans affordability of plural marriage. Each wife is entitled to be taken care of financially by her husband in full and how can he ask to be my husband when he can not afford to give me the basic needs I have such as shelter? How long am I supposed to wait for him to get it together? I even try helping him to gain more stable employment and I know its hard now so I give the benefit of the doubt... but it has been some time...
I agree that it does take a certain caliber of woman to be able to live together and run a home collectively and I think that we should try our hardest to ovr come our petty inclinations towards bickering and other inhibiting behaviors to make our best efforts in upholding Islamic standards, namely communal living and collectivity, when we enter into polygynous marriages.
For me, I am perfectly capable and deserving of having my own everything, much like dr.omar's 2nd wife. But since I want for my sister what I want for myself, I asked if it was the most Islamic thing to do and I figured that submitting to communal living would allow us to better pool our resources so that we could all have a better standard of living instead of more meager ones for each of us. we had the ideals right, but the implementation was all wrong. Retrospect is 20/20, and I don't know if repair is possible at this point.
Everyone's polygynous model is different for different reasons. What are the implications of polygyny for the greater community in which you live. We live amongst unbelievers at every turn and we are not supposed to adopt the ways of the heathen although it is so much easier and so much more appealing at times. I struggled with this in my journey in polygyny and I am still asking myself if my wanting to be separated from my "husband" is contributing to that the tearing apart of the community and family that I wanted so desperately to be a part of building up through the device of polygyny...
decisions, prayers.
Peace&Blessings

As Salaamu Alaikum

Ana I have been reading your blog for some time now but have never commented till now. I wonder if you should dedicate a post to living accomodations in polygyny and support your theory with Quran and /or hadith.

Personally, if my husband marries another woman, we have an understanding that we will NEVER all live under the same roof unless that roof is so big that it is equivalent to 2 homes comeplete with seperate entrances and seperate living areas. I have read Dr. Omar's reccomendations for communal living saying that it is virtually impossible to practice polygyny today without this kind of arrangement but I have to respectfully disagree. Regardless of how close in proximatey the wives of the prophet lived, THEY DID NOT SHARE HOMES. Each wife had her own living accomodations and I feel there is wisdom behind this arrangement. If this is the sunnah and this was the way the prophet practiced polygyny and he was the best of us, who are we to think our way of doing things is better? I feel that it is when we put our own twist on things in this deen is when we run into the biggest fitna and difficulty. Allah says in the quran:

"This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islâm as your religion."[Al-Maa'idah

The sunnah is part of the perfection of this deen so how are we changing things in it to fit our lives? Polygyny is already a struggle for the woman but to live in a home and watch your husband go to the bedroom of his other wifeon her night, knowing that they will probably be intimate sounds like torture to me. It is cruel and I don't think that was intended when polygyny was made halal. Just my 2 cents.

Wa Alaikum As Salaam, A Muslima!

Welcome to polygamy 411. We're happy to have you here and I'm so glad you've commented.

I think you and I are unequivocably on the same page, regarding living accomodations in polygyny. I totally agree with you regarding all that you said. You summed it all up so thoroughly and nicely. There's nothing I could add.

I'm going to consider your suggestion about making a post regarding living accomodations in polygyny. I probably won't include references from Quran and/or Hadith, simply because I don't think I'm knowledgeable enough to do that. I received my basic understanding from reading general material about the life of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and his family.

I thank you much for your two cents. You presented your position and knowledge of the subject beautifully. Well said. Well said. Well said

Requiring all wives to live together with their one husband is "cruel" and "torturous"; I agree. Islam, a religion of peace, doesn't impose that on a woman.

This is an open house no need to knock. Just come on in.

If I'm not mistaken, I've read that all the prophet's wives lives in different dwellings, yet side-by-side of each others house beside of Masjid an-Nabawi in Madinah. Do correct me if I'm wrong.

To the best of my knowledge, you are correct, Ibnu Adam, and I'd like to be corrected if I’m wrong. Based on that assumption, it appears that in 2010, if people want to live polygyny the way of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), each wife should have a separate dwelling.

An easy way to do that would be to put the wives each in their own apartment in the same apartment complex, perhaps next door to one another, which is sufficient if he can't afford houses for each one of them or they don’t want houses. Even studio apartments for each would work- anything that’s separate and meets the standard of living the wife is accustomed to.

I know housing is expensive in 2010, but if a man doesn't have the financial means to provide separate dwellings for his wives, then he obviously need not have more than one wife until he can afford to do it right. Putting all the wives in one dwelling is not an option. It is cruel and unusual punishment in my view. As "A Muslima" said above, “If this is the sunnah and this was the way the prophet practiced polygyny and he was the best of us, who are we to think our way of doing things is better?” She said, “I feel that it is when we put our own twist on things in this deen is when we run into the biggest fitna and difficulty."

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

@ Ibnu Adam

I believe you are correct from what I know, however the key word is "seperate" dwellings. I'm sure they could have built one big hut or home with room dividers for each wife, but they didn't. They each had their own home. I found the following on islam-qa.com:

Ibn Qudaamah said: The man does not have the right to make his two wives live together in one house without their consent, whether they are young or old, because that house without their consent, whether they are young or old, because that causes them harm due to the enmity and jealousy that exists between them, so making them live together provokes arguments and fighting, and each of them can hear sounds when he is intimate with the other, or she can see that. But if they agree to that then it is permissible, because they have that right but they are also allowed to forego it.  they agree to that then it is permissible, because they have that right but they are also allowed to forego it.

Al-Mughni, 7/229. Al-Kaasaani said: If the husband wants her (his wife) to live with her co-wife or her in-laws, such she refuses, then he must accommodate her in a separate house, because they may annoy her or harm her if she lives with them. Her refusal is an indication of that annoyance and harm. Also he needs to be able to have intercourse with her and be intimate with her at any time that suits him, and that is not possible f a third person is present. Badaa’i al-Sanaa’i’, 4/23.

Also check this link:
islam-qa.com/en/ref/2040

In Islam, I'm wondering if it is an option for wives to consent to live together in one dwelling with their husband. I know it is a permissible in Islam for women to give up their rights to certain things and they must consent to marriage, but living in a communal set up - I don’t know.

I think if it were an option we would have heard somewhere or someplace about some of the wives of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) living together, as an example for us. I think women sometimes are pressured to live together out of a need for having a husband or are persuaded by the husband to live that way. I question whether wives that consent to that type of living arrangement are doing so willfully and wantonly, whether it is of their own good will and accord.

Perhaps there are safeguards in Islam that make it a necessity for wives to have their own dwellings. The safeguards could be to prevent perversions, perversions such as: threesomes, ménage trois, voyeurism, exhibitionism, and kinky, freaky stuff, ease dropping, lewdness and all and any other ills, not to mention the prevention of psychological and emotional problems for the wives, plus bickering, quarreling, fighting, rancor, hatred , enmity, jealousy, envy and the list goes on.

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Even if the wives were all homeless, and had to live in a cardboard box on the side of the street, each wife should have her own box.

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Islam Ana, a muslima y adam ,
as someone who has tried to move into the already established home of my "husband" and #1, I can say that I advocate for each wife to have that choice and certainly for #1 to have the option of saying yes or no to bring another woman into the home. I continue to advocate close proximity of wives, such as in my suggestion for my "husband" to buy t duplex home with apartment units in it.
A woman deserves to have the option of having her own. And getting back to communal living I think that each wife can have her own dwelling place and still practice communal responsibility but just in a more broad way and with a little extra effort.
I am thankful for the two of your perspectives being expressed in such a way and confirming the suggestion to my "husband" to be reasonable and sound.
Peace&Blessings

as salaamu alaikum

i have been following your blog for a while, but haven't posted before. However, I feel I need to say something regarding the whole living together issue. I used to be in a polygamous marriage (as first wife if that matters) and we all lived together. Living together was not cruel punishment at all. I preferred it that way, not only because I got to spend time with my husband every day, but especially because the kids could have their father available for them every day; get a goodnight kiss and hug everynight, have him there anytime they needed him without THEM having to wait for MY night/day. As far as having to see your husband flirt with his other wife, or hear them at night and such, it really is not a big deal if all parties behave sensibly. For me, after the emotional turmoil of the first month or two, it didn't phase me anymore that he was going to be with her in the other room and I didn't try to imagine what was going on between them. (the first couple of months were very difficult of course, but by the grace of Allah I got through them with my sanity and dignity intact, alhamdulilah) On the other hand, I also got to see him treat her just like me - no better or worse, and that put my mind at ease. If we had different homes, I might have imagined that he liked her more and preferred to stay there, just because that's how your mind works when you're jealous. Also, if we were separate, I know I would have felt more lonely on her nights and not so safe being by myself. Living together suited us just fine - the sister and I were both not petty and didn't pick at little things (most of the time, lol) and even though their marriage ended, it was not because we lived together.
So anyway, basically my point is that some women do prefer to live together and it can be better for the whole family, so to say that this is a cruel and unusual punishment, or that it's islamically unacceptable is not fair. What's islamically unacceptable is for the man to force his wives to live together or to somehow pressure them into agreeing, but if the women agree to it on their own, there is nothing wrong with that, provided they have separate bedrooms, and Allah knows best

Islam all,
Getting back to the topic of polygynous wives being friends so far as each wife having her own dwelling and home, I think that the chance of friendship between the wives does increase if the wives are given the option of having their own home or agree together to live in the same home. I think that it is important for polygynous wives to try to be friends because they become relatives by their husband as their children will be related and will more than likely interact frequently with their co-wife/ves, and the women are in a sense being adopted into their husband's family. I therefore think that as a family unit the wives should have like goals and be friendly with one another in striving to accomplish shared goals and to make their husband's life easier.
I tried to be a sister-friend with #1 very badly and at times we proved that we could be very friendly and loving with one another but it seemed only that she would embrace me after being convicted by the holy breath conveyed through our "husband's" reasoning with her and feel ashamed at her unIslamic behavior towards me. those harmonious friendly times between us were very happy and seemingly productive but never lasted long as #1 would always revert to unIslamic behavior based on base emotions.
I think that having our separate dwelling spaces would have helped us to be more friendly and for longer periods of time without the usual regression that we suffered bringing us up to date. we do not get along now and in a way we were forced on each other by our "husband" as he really wanted us to work together and be friendly with each other. I did not have a problem with that at first and I really did accept #1 as a sister and wanted us to be a united front but she was not open to me from the beginning but I kept trying because he'd asked me to. Out of love for him, I tried and tried to befriend this woman and it just ended up failing. I think living arrangements could have made things different; could have helped my ad #1's friendship.
peace&Blessings

Islam umm omar,
I agree. that is the arrangement we were looking to have but parties were not as emotionally capable as first thought. I'm so glad you commented and I know that I am not alone in my stance as a woman.
Peace&blessings

Umm Omar, Wa Alaikum As Salaam and welcome to polygamy 411! It's nice to hear you have been following the blog, and decided to comment

Thank you for sharing with us your experience living polygamy, in particular your living arrangement. It helps to know there are wives that lived together in a (Islamic) polygamous marriage, consentually, and it worked.

The question that comes to mind, if I may, is did the sister move into your home or did you all move into a home that was new to her, you, and your husband? You indicated the numerous benefits in the arrangement for you; however, I didn't hear you cite a benefit that you think was in it for her...I'm just curious, as she is no longer married to your husband; although you said the living arrangement was not an issue for her.

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Salaam "Esposa"Dos

I was just giving a lot of thought to what you’ve mentioned in previous comments. In light of what we've been discussing about living accommodations, I thought about some of the problems that could be eliminated should you and your husband reunite in a separate home from 1st. For one you wouldn't have to worry about what a bad housekeeper #1 is. You wouldn't have to concern yourself about a schedule to do thing around the home. You wouldn't have to concern yourself about her leaving the home, roaming about the streets at night. Nor would you have to concern yourself about her bringing non-halal food into the home.

If she wants to live that way and do those things, then she should be permitted to do them without another wife’s interference. So, having your own place, you have fewer worries. In fact, your husband may turn to you with more love and affection as he'll have a nice clean place to retreat to for peace.

Honestly, I don't think I'd appreciate you coming into my home, telling me when and how to clean and what to bring in my house etc. , etc., etc. I'd tell you, if you don't like it leave...especially if I wasn't receptive to polygamy to begin with.

We have to keep in mind that just because we're Muslim doesn't mean we've got it all together immediately. It takes a life time to be where we want to be. It's part of our struggle, our personal jihad. I really felt I needed to say that. I know your intentions were good!

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

as salaamu alaikum

Ana, that's a valid question. I take it you feel there are less advantages for a second wife in this type of living arrangement? I guess I can see that, considering she has to make her life fit into ours somehow, and not the other way around. For me I always thought it was harder for the first wife as she has to not only get used to sharing her husband but also her home - and some women can be more possessive of their homes than their husbands. But I guess I'm a little biased on this issue

Anyway, so in our case the sister first moved in with us, in a spare room we had. About a month later we remodeled the living room and she was a part of that with picking the furniture and such. That place started to feel crowded so we moved into a larger home that was new to all of us. In this new place we each had a private bedroom and bathroom on separate floors so we had a lot more privacy and a place to be by ourselves if we needed to.

As for the benefits for her versus living separate - I think she would name the same benefits I did. We sat down and discussed this issue beforehand and we were all on the same page with regards to living together - she didn't have any children, but she would want her future children to have their father available all the time. Knowing her, I don't think she would have liked to live all by herself. Also, she was young and inexperienced as far as maintaining a home is concerned. By living together, she didn't have the whole responsibility to herself and she could learn from me how to cook, and clean and all that kind of stuff. Plus, I was working at the time so she could have the whole house to herself in the mornings. I'm sure she had many difficulties, but I believe the overall benefits outweighed the difficulties for her as they did for me.

We both wanted a big happy family - I was sincere in wanting her to be like my sister and I believe so was she. Our arrangement failed because she and our husband were not compatible, not because of us living together.

Well, I think I babbled enough for today

As Salaamu Alaikum Umm Omar!

Thank you for answering my probative questions and so graciously. I understand your polygynous arrangement so much better now. I had hoped I wasn't too forward in asking you to elaborate further about your life.

You apparently had a very nice arrangement and it appeared you were very kind and generous in dealing with the sister. Alhumdiullah! That was very special. I like the setup that you had in the new home. That was probably better for the two of you. The sister probably didn't feel so much like an intruder anymore once you all moved to a new home.

I whole heartedly agree with you that it is much harder for the first wife in many ways. I personally just feel many seconds come on the scene feeling they could push their weight around because they believed something was lacking in the relationship to begin with that made the husband look for her. It may be true sometimes or many times, but second failed to realize the husband still loved the 1st very much and nothing second could do would change that love. In your family situation, it doesn’t appear that was the case at all. It sounds to me the sister joined a very nice family, the type of family sister “Esposa”Dos was trying to establish with her husband and his other wife.

You weren't babbling at all Umm Omar. In fact, the details were very interesting. I was just wondering...here I go again How does it feel to be monogamous again? Do you feel something is missing now and you look forward to another sister joining your family or are you just very content having your husband back all to yourself again? Inquiring minds want to know


This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

as salaamu alaikum

i hope I didn't give you the impression that everything was peachy all the time and we had it all figured out, because we sure didn't. Compared to some others I've heard of, we were living in bliss, but we had our share of problems. I wasn't always kind and generous and gracious - there were a few times when I behaved irrationally, acted out in pain and hurt her feelings or caused drama with our husband. And there were times when she (and husband) acted inconsiderately and hurt my feelings. But our intentions were good and overall we got along well. She and I never really connected and formed a bond though - we were nice and respectful to each other like sisters in islam, but our relationship never got to a deeper level of friendship like I had hoped. The reason for that was probably the age difference (she's 10 years younger, while my husband and I are close in age)and I guess our personalities didn't mesh well together. So, for that reason I don't really feel like something is missing now and I'm glad I have my husband to myself so to speak - definitely glad to be able to be with/around him anytime I want and to be able to be affectionate anywhere in the house/anytime of the day/every day. On the other hand, not being able to be with each other all the time added a certain excitement to our relationship, which I do miss now. I am sure you understand what I mean about that.

As Salaamu Alaikum Umm Omar!

I understand what you mean about the excitement. I experience it often when I anticipate Alex coming home, and seeing him again. It reminds me of preparing for a date (I know the prep for date feeling from when I dated before becoming Muslim).

I was so happy for you when you said you're glad to have your husband to yourself. That's beautiful. It brought a big smile to my face Enjoy your husband!

Do you know if your husband wants to be polygamous again or the experience was enough for him to say no way, no how?

My intention would be not to discuss Alex being polygamous again unless he brought it up, if he were to divorce Carolinah.

Thanks for sharing!

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

as salaamu alaikum Ana,

He says no way, no how now. Says one woman to take care of is a big enough headache. But I won't hold him to it if he ever changes his mind.

As Salaamu Alaikum Umm Omar,

At least your husband got a taste of what polygamy is about, and can say he experienced it. Sometimes that's what people want is just the experience.

It's good you're being open minded, knowing that although he says he wouldn't want it again, it's always a possibility that it could happen again. I remember a commentator or two said a Muslim woman always knows polygamy is a possibility in her life. I hadn't remembered it. Based on my experience, I would tell any Muslim woman that I communicate with regarding marriage to always know polygamy is a strong possibility in her life.

You probably appreciate your husband more since the experience and vice versa. I'd venture to say polygamy was good for you!

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

I have a question for you Ana,
You say, you would tell any Muslim woman, that Polygamy is a strong possibility in her life.
Really, Statistically, isn't this untrue? I do not know.

What percentage of Muslims practice Polygamy? are there any numbers out there to look at the data?
And Divorce? these numbers seem to be growing in Islam as well.
Since I am focused on Egypt, I recall reading a recent CNN piece about an eight percent rise in Divorce in Egypt; putting it at 40 percent. WOW that is approaching the USA at 49%.
The sister hood is certainly one of a GREAT, but Tiny Minority.

EgyptianLovingAmerian, I'm glad you didn't take offense.

The reason I say I would tell any Muslim woman that polygamy is a possibility in her life is because I believe a large percentage of Muslim men truly believe polygamy is their right in Islam. No one knows when a man is going to exercise that right or present it to a wife that it is something he decided he wants to do. Some men say they'd never do it or have no desire to do it, only later to decide they will or want to. It's not their fault, as no one can predict the future. Not knowing the future is another reason including a clause against it in a marriage contract does not assure against polygamy but simply gives a woman an option to divorce, if he violates that condition of the contract.

I think it very difficult to say how many people in Islam practice polygamy, simply because many of the marriages are not accounted for as they aren't registered, aren't "legal." In Islam it's not required to have a "legal" marriage for it to be valid. Some Muslims believe it is contrary to Islam to have a Marriage License.

I'm picking on Amina again. She commented under "7.6 Million Unmarried Egyptian Males-Many for the Taking," and said, "I also wonder how many of these people are actually married, but not account for Ie: just the kitab(contract) and not legally. I know lot's of people who do that." I concur with her. There is a large Muslim population in a neighboring city where I live in which I believe the majority of Muslims are married without an official registered Marriage License. Of course in polygamy we know only one of the wives could have a legal Marriage License in America or it would be Bigamy. How can anyone keep count of these type of marriages?

I'm not one good with citing statistics, but based on the articles I've been reading that I've posted on this blog under Polygamy in the Media and Polygamy in Various Countries, it appears the divorce rate is very high in many countries. I know in the neighboring city I made mention of above, there have been talk of numerous divorces in polygamous marriages and in monogamous Islamic marriages, as well, simply because Islamic marriages and divorces are so easy to get in and out of.

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

EgyptianLovingAmerican,

I think sometimes we welcome the lies. How else would we be able to rationalize staying in relationships that we know are wrong for us? If your guy was straight up and were to tell you that he has no intention of leaving his wife, what would you say? What would you do? If you stayed in the relationship, how would that make you feel?

I'm sure your guy loves you and fears losing you, which is why he lies. The lies only hurt all concerned in the long run. Just my thoughts. I keep thinking of you and your situation and I'm wishing you the best.

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Assalamualaikum wr

Dear Sis Ana and readers,

I continue to read this blog and appreciate the information, comments and insights that are shared.

I would be grateful if anyone has any readings or information or if anyone would like to share his/her personal experience on this scenario :

What if polygyny is discussed and accepted even before marriage, ie the man already says that he will take a second wife before he marries the first and the first candidate (for lack of a better word), accepts.

What is the best way to deal with this situation, for the woman (and man), knowing that the marriage will eventually be shared with another person, even before it has begun. I am thinking in terms of expectation, coping, tips, pitfalls to avoid, etc.

Sis Ana, I hope you are enjoying 2010 and that Allah grants you strength, wisdom and happiness as you continue your journey.

I would like to comment on Umm Omar.
WOW, just the thought of being back in a monogamous marriage sounds blissful. It was a pleasure to read the story where Umm Omar's husband realised that polygamy was not what he expected it to be and realised his second wife was not compatible. I think he was couragious in admitting this and ending the marriage. Unlike some men who stubbonely continue trying to juggle even though it's causing heartache and grief. Like you said, he has experienced it and that has probably put him off for life! I really believe that if my husband could go back in time he would not do it again. Ana, what you said about second wives thinking that they must be better in some way than the first wife otherwise the man would not have married them is 100% right. I believe (and in my case) that some probabaly think that they will win the husband's heart so much that they will eventually leave or neglect their first wife in favour of them (wishful thinking)! In Umm omar's case i think he thought that all women were the same and that his second wife would be the same as his first in both character and personality. However, he was proved wrong not all women are cut from the same cloth. Once you have tasted something new you realise that what you had all along is something quite spectacular compared to the alternative. I truly wish Umm Omar happiness and contentment in her returned 'exclusive' marriage and wish the same for all of us muslim women trying to cope in a polygamous marriage (first wives in particular!!)
Much salaam

Salaam Alaikum


Help, I have a question (I raised it before on another post); I understand that each wife is entitled to a separate home/living space, however what about if you do not wish to have contact with your co-wife period? It may sound un-islamic but if you feel it is in YOUR interest to have no contact with her because you feel anger, hate or anything else towards her, isn't it best to 'keep away' to avoid bad tensions, confrontations and possible feuds? I ask this because hubby wants me and no.2 to have some form of communication, even it is just a casual meeting (as we have not met yet) I DO NOT. Even after all this time, I am unable to bring myself to want anything to do with her, why should I? She wants to, I have been continuously told, but of course she would, she knew he had wife, she can't ignore that fact, so she has no choice but to agree and please him and make out it is me who is uncooperative.

Do I have the RIGHT TO REFUSE contact with her? If I feel it would make dealing with 'polygamy' more stressful for me? I mean just thinking about it makes me feel ill, then surely I shouldn't have to give into the pressure? Apart from returning salaam, AM I OBLIGED IN ISLAM of anything else?

Ana you said in this post;
"Instructions are given to men in Islam that opt to engage in polygamy. I have come across no instructions for me as a Muslim female with regards being married to a polygamous man".
Me too! I have scrolled though hadiths and Ayats, however, the only one I could find vaguely relating to my question is:

Al-Kaasaani said in Badaa’i al-Sanaa’i (4/24):
"If the husband wants to make her live with her co-wife or in-laws.... and she refuses to do so, then he has to accommodate her in a separate house, because they may annoy her or harm her if they live together, and her refusal is an indication that she is being bothered or harmed.... "

Would this 'refusal' on my part be acceptable? After all meeting her, pretending to like her WOULD bother me, it would harm me (although not physically) but emotionally! The less contact I have, the better I will cope. The little things that pop into our daily lives is enough for me to handle at the moment.

To be blunt I don't want to be her friend, I don't want to pretend either, even to please my husband. I may share my husband with her, but that is out of my control.

It's sounds bad of me I know, because she is a Muslim, but to be honest, I am afraid. Not of her or what she may do to me, but how I will react. My emotions are still fragile, I don't want to have to cope with talking/meeting/seeing this woman; my imagination is already running wild without putting her face and voice to the picture.

Boy oh boy, 3 years in, still more challenges, still more hurdles, and still no where near truly accepting.

much salaam

It's been interesting reading about everyone's story. I need it right now. What I want to know is, if a husband is no longer financially able to support separate households, can a wife refuse without consequence? According to my limited knowledge, a wives must agree on it. Any thoughts on this out there? Have you been faced with this situation ever?

Huda: When I read your comments, I feel like it's me talking. My husband is not married to a second yet, but I feel like I too could not bear the thought of 'being friends' or even communicating. The prospective wife approached my husband, so I feel like she is taking his heart away from me. Even after years I could not see myself being so amicable. Am I being arrogant, and childish? I feel as though I am. It hurts just thinking about it.

Mrs R#1

As Salaamu Alaikum MrsR#1!Welcome to polygamy411 and thank you much for going out on the limb and commenting. I sit back at times and wait for others to come forward with their feedback, before I reply. I'd like to hear from others, as everyone by now knows how I think and what my position is. I'll say it again, I am no authority on polygamy. I just speak from my experience and my limited knowledge.

There are just so many more readers that don't comment oppose to commentators, which is why I especially thank commentators. They are extra special, especially when they come to enrich themselves and others and don't just come to berate another.

MrsR#1, I understand you're feeling very insecure in yourself, knowing another woman is interested in marrying your husband and polygamy may be a possibility for you. The fear of losing your husband's love to someone else naturally causes you to realize feeling of jealousy, envy and selfishness within you. Knowing these are blameworthy characteristics that we posses (base feelings that aren't good), we do feel badly about ourselves for feeling them. Nonetheless, you are not childish, so try not to beat yourself up like that.

It appears to me by what you've said that you are willing to possibly embark on the journey of polygamy, as you haven't rejected it by saying no way, no how. It leads me to believe that you are willing to accept the whole of Quran and not just the part that's to your liking. At least you're receptive to giving it a try. That's the path that many of us that are here are trying to take. It's by far, not easy, but doable, especially if we try to help one another.

My thoughts are that once we've accepted polygamy for our husbands - allowed them to do what Allah says they can and let them account to Allah SWT for the rest, that is all we must do.

The question you and Huda asked, whether we have to live with the other wife/wives, be friends with the other wife/wives, communicate with the other wife/wives, etc. is all up to us, individually. Allah tells us how to deal with people based on what type of people they are. We're all supposed to be kind and just to everyone unless they fight us for our faith. He tells us how to deal with our enemies, as well. I think we should use the same criteria when determining how we should deal or not deal with co-wives; subsequent wives; other wives; sister wives or whatever we want to call them (that's nice ) in the same way.

I'm becoming more accepting of my situation more and more each day. I think communicating with 2nd, 3rd and 4th wives here on the blog has helped me adapt much better, as well. Just as an update: I still opt not to communicate with carolinah at this time. My inclination is still to attack, badger and hurt her, if I can. So see. I still have a long, long ways to go


MrsR#1, I hope I've helped some. Please ask more questions and we'll try to help as best we can; I will try.

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

I was previously in a polygynous marriage; and my ex co-wife (and I truly did want to see her as a co-wife), despite my attempts to be friendly with her and her claiming to our mutual husband that she was only looking to be part of a polygynous marriage where she was on good terms with the other sister; really stabbed me in the back. She slandered me, invaded my privacy and even created a fake facebook persona to attack me online. It deeply affected me and still does. It was one of the main reasons my husband divorced the sister because her hatred towards me was just not something he could take any longer, especially since it was not mutual and I never did anything to her. Also this sister knew me in real life and had been welcome in my home so this made it all the more devestating. I am pro-polygyny; for my own personal reasons I prefer a polygynous marriage, I actually find monogamy stifling but I now find it much harder to believe that co-wives can or should ever be friends.

Umm S, Hi! As Salaamu Alaikum!!! Welcome to polygamy 411. It's good to have you here and thanks you very much for commenting. We appreciate you sharing with us what life was like for you, living polygyny.

I share your sentiments that a polygynous marriage is desirable in many ways. Although, polygyny has a way of bringing out the worst in some women, especially the worst in me. I did not like women as friends even when I was monogamous and knew nothing about polygamy. So one could see how trying to integrate a female friendship into my marriage, making it polygamous is just not working.

It's nice that you are pro-polygyny whether you live it or not. I think that is the key - accepting polygyny whether we live it or not. I don't think polygyny is a pre-requisite to enter Paradise, but accepting all that's in the Quran is. That's what I'm working towards and I think other's here are as well.

Were u first or second wife? Please don't feel compelled to answer. I was just curious.

Thanks again Umm S!

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Hello Umm S,
Your post has me intrigued. It sounds to me like you were a first wife, and opened your marriage to a second wife, due to your interest in polygyny, correct?

I can understand wanting a "sister." I can also understand feeling "stifled" in a marriage, I think most people feel that from time to time. And so I can understand wanting to combine these 2 things into a well intended polygynous arrangment. But I am puzzled by the last line of your post. You say:

"I am pro-polygyny; for my own personal reasons I prefer a polygynous marriage, I actually find monogamy stifling but I now find it much harder to believe that co-wives can or should ever be friends."

Most people experience disappointment in relationships at some time in their lives. But if disappointment in a specific relationship would lead you to adopt the belief that cowives are unsuited to be friends, then how would polygyny serve to help relieve the stifling aspects of monogamy?

Many thanks for your post.

Umm S,
In thinking a little more about your post, maybe I understand it better.

Are you saying that polygyny helps relieve the stifling aspects of monogamy, not because of the relationship between the sister wives, but because the fact of having a sister wife relieves the wife of constant duty towards the husband? Just trying to understand...
j

Hi Judith,

I don't know where Umm S is. Sometimes people write and disappear. I do that sometimes. Anyhow, I hope you don't mind me being a butt and butting in. I think I've experienced what Umm S was referencing. Polygamy allows me to do what I want, when I want and how I want, without feeling any GUILT, on the days Alex isn't here. When we were monogamous, I was always concerned about getting home at a descent hour, being there so I wouldn't hold up dinner, not wanting him to be jealous when I was out with my male friend who did chores with me etc. All that worry doesn't exist when he's not here and I try to do all those things when Alex is not here. I find intimacy is better, as I look forward to it, oppose to dreading it or feeling compelled to oblige him. It's like being on a date when you don't see one another often, but when you do you have sex (long ago, non-Muslim days

All of the above is way good for me until I think about Carolinah. When she enters the equation, I begin having bad thoughts about her and my heart begins to hurt, making me HATE POLYGAMY! So, needless to say, I need to keep her out of mind; she's already out of sight.

When I was monogamous, there was a lot of monotony, but I was content. I knew Alex wasn’t happy with the way our marriage was, but I thought he was content. It is why I was shocked Hi Judith,

I don't know where Umm S is. Sometimes people write and disappear. I do that sometimes. Anyhow, I hope you don't mind me being a butt and butting in. I think I've experienced what Umm S was referencing. Polygamy allows me to do what I want, when I want and how I want, without feeling any GUILT, on the days Alex isn't here. When we were monogamous, I was always concerned about getting home at a descent hour, being there so I wouldn't hold up dinner, not wanting him to be jealous when I was out with my male friend who did chores with me etc. All that worry doesn't exist when he's not here and I try to do all those things when Alex is not here. I find intimacy is better, as I look forward to it, oppose to dreading it or feeling compelled to oblige him. It's like being on a date when you don't see one another often, but when you do you have sex (long ago, non-Muslim days

All of the above is way good for me until I think about Carolinah. When she enters the equation, I begin having bad thoughts about her and my heart begins to hurt, making me HATE POLYGAMY! So, needless to say, I need to keep her out of mind; she's already out of sight.

When I was monogamous, there was a lot of monotony, but I was content. I knew Alex wasn’t happy with the way our marriage was, but I thought he was content. It is why I was shocked when I got the wakeup call that he was going to marry Carolinah.


Judith, my question to you and me is, "Can we ever be truly happy?" I wasn't totally happy monogamous and I'm not totally happy polygamous. Are we supposed to be "happy" in this life? R we only happy when things goes our way and we get what we want? Doesn't it seem happiness is momentary?

I don't think Alex is any happier than he was when we were monogamous. I won't ask him, as I question whether I'd get the truth.

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Assalam to all

Well well we normally tend to be selfish and thinking that we owned things here in this world, like our children, our husband, our home, our car, etc.

But the truth is that we are given these by Allah`s only for a limited tme, nothing is owned by us actually. We have it today and in one glimse he can take it back. So my point here, is that First wife should not be too much aggressive or trying to have more control over the husband knowing he just got married again to another wife. Give them time to settle their married life, if it is difficult for first wife then its not easy even for the new married wife...

First wife should be grateful that He is not having an affair in hidden, but he has nikhaa in a pure relationship as he had with the first wife.
Relationships lead by the way prescribed by Allah, is only pure and halal, so who r first wife to spoilt it by being jealousy and fighting day n night abt this?

A man needs peace of mind life, he seeks constant love and passion and above all understandings from wife. If this is lacking in first marriage, definitely he wont feel complete in that and he will try to find it again by marrying again, so why adding pressure and stress into that relationship? Let him breath so far he will never leave first wife so whts the prob?

We r ordered by Allah to please our husband and his happiness should be our happiness. We women we have a soft heart to forgive and to love unconditionally. So lets try to live peaceful and cherish each single moment we have with our husband n children, who knows may be tmw one of us die and we may then regret all the jealousy/fighting/arguing.

Financially co-wives have to think about each other and not impose too much on husband to have more finance from him as he needs to balance both life, specially if he is having kids from both. So definitely they are all one family only, and truth is they cannot ignore each other even, so better, first family accept the second family and vice versa, and live happily with each other. If any member of any family having a serious health problem then defintely the whole family will be worried as the husband will be very worried so, learn to live as a peaceful family.

Lets be thankful to Allah, we have a husband who care about us and think about us and he is in the right path of Allah(i.e he had nikhaa and not zina).

If we have sincere taqwah i mean fear of Allah we will never hurt other persons instead we b thankful to Allah for every single things we have in this life!!

I am myself a newly married second wife, the first wife accepted me b4 nikhaa, but today is very aggressive knowing im going to give birth to a baby. All I ask Allah in every prayer is to give her sabar to bear things, even I asked my husband to give her more assurance.

to ameerah .... whatever

ana you dont have to post this haha!! i cant stand second wife talking ... arghhhhhh!!!!

Lynn

Second wife is a human too and not all the time with bad intention.

Additional family member can only bring additional love & care ... only if we take away all selfishness and jealousy.

Depend on our perception and our intention.

May we appear to Allah in a state where he is pleased with us for every deeds.

Ameen.

Salaam Alaikum

I have woke up with very intense feelings. Feelings of hurt, anger and resentment. My hubby called me the other day (he is with no.2 at present) and I could hear his child (with no.2) in the background. While we were talking, or should I say I was, he seemed distant and wasn't even listening to me, he was too busy laughing and talking with the child then kept asking me 'what was that you said' blah blah. In the end I hung up and asked him next time to phone when he has time for me and not preoccupied. You see he calls every few days because he is gone for weeks at at a time (no.2 and I live in different countries) I believe he isn't really interested in calling me to talk, he just wants to conduct his 'responsibility', i.e. checking we are okay.

This is not the first time he has done this, he has done it before, but I have let it drop, but now it is really bothering me. I am beginning to feel like an after thought, a sideline, a less prominant role in his life. He is spending more time away than he was before and seems more attached to 'them'. I used to think I was just making more of it, but honestly it is now more obvious, even to others. Because he has kid with her and she has another on the way ... here I go again..... crying as I type; it is hurting me so much to know that she is having a baby.....
she is more demanding than ever, more demanding than me and my child are. I am left holding the fort here, while he is seeing to their every whim. Arghhhhh

So, is this the way it is going to be? Are they his priority now? Did I spend over 13 years with this man, spending our youth together,(we married young) building a home together, supporting him, sharing with him, to then have to take a back seat while someone else is in the driving seat? This is not how it's supposed to be? Not for me anyway.

I have admitted holding a grudge against no.2, but now I am harbouring really negative feelings towards him. To the point that I find it hard to be civil with him and seem to be on the attack.

I am questioning myself, 'why are you staying if all you're going to feel is bitter, anger and hate'? These feelings are not good, feeling selfish and jealous will not go away, no matter what. Is this a sign for me to call it a day? I have found myself idealizing what it would be like to start a new life, move home, find a new job, make new friends. A life without this constant emotional battle at the back of my mind. I really hate having these feelings, I have said it before and I'll saying it again I am not the person I was. I have changed, and I can now see that my husband has too. He is stuck in this, he can't change anything, but can I? Am I staying for the wrong reasons? Not giving her completely to him, making him struggle and juggle his life and monies is that a reason to stay? I don't know, but I feel like staying for the sake of making her unhappy (i.e. by having to share him with me) is not working for me any more.

I am frustrated.... it's hard, our child is watching me struggle and that makes me feel worse. What is best for them?

I'm going to try & stop crying... gonna go and do wudu and pray 2 rakats and ask Allah to guide me and ease this immense tension I am feeling right at this moment.

much salaam

Salaams Huda,

Your post really makes my heartache for you. I know there is nothing that I can say to make you feel better(not even,"I know how you feel"). But, may Allah make this test easy on you and your children. Ameen
May he guide you right so you may not go astray inshallah. Ameen
May he bless you with patience and uderstanding of this deen. Ameen

Everything that I ask Allah to bless you with, May Allah bless me with the same. Ameen

HUDA!! LISTEN TO ME!...LIKE MY MUMZY ALWAYSS SAYS!!(and we all know how great she is...when it comes to how AWESOME!! my mum is, we don't beat around the bush) here's what she says --> " Marcel my dahling, when it comes to life, there are times when you have to put your morals on the washing line (just for a moment)...And once you've done all your unIslamic and unsavory acts, you put on your morals like a new set of clothes "

You see Huda, thats why, like me!... i don't have bad days...i have bad moments. And when i have those bad moments i GATHER MYSELF!! i go to my room, i lock my door, scribble in my drawing book, have a few bites of my "dads" very expensive chocolates in his very expensive armani tux and alls well!!! Like barney stinson always says, "When im sad, i stop being sad, and be happy instead" So Huda! take a moment..you don't need this nonsense from a grown man!! (i ain't saying leave him)...


But if you have to, when he gets home *and this always get a reaction out of them*,

*whispering voice*

make sure he's looking at you, and once you've got his full attention...looking down...you shake your head side to side... after which you give a long sigh....

BELIEVE ME!! IT WORKS LIKE MAGIC!!

Every so often when i need to let my "dad" know what a f-cked up job he's doing as a father, i let him know by doing the *headshake followed by a sigh*.. AND LOOK AT ME HUDA!! ITS LIKE IM ON CLOUD NINE!! ITS LIKE IM CONSTANTLY ON A HIGH!! Thats why Huda, listen to me, i know, some people think they know, but they dont know, i know, so instead of having bad days, have bad moments, AND YOU TOO COULD FEEL HIGH ALL THE TIME!!

And if you're still sad Huda, which should be IMPOSSIBLE, you give me a bell, and me n you could go to PARIS!! to visit mumzy, we get a hold of your hubby's credit card, we hit up Louise vuitton, prada, burberry, hermes and some TOYS 'R US!! (i need some stuff too Huda, don't be stingy with the husbands monay!) and we get a nice pair of Jimmy choos and then we vist HUBBY!!! and we do a walk in slow motion in front of his "pad". Huda, believe me, this is a recipe to ETERNAL HAPPINESS!!!


PS. If any of the above goes against your moral compass, DON"T DO IT!! i will admit, i am a bit off the wagon when it comes to giving advice.....BUT.....dont blame me, blame the fibers in my brain that have not yet connected, therefore making it impossible for me to decipher certain information correctly...

All the best Huda!!

Huda i can feel everything you said. yes i'm very néw to polygamy but those are exactly I'm feeling now. It seems to me my husband has changed too and he will do anything for Ms. P. He asked me to settle everything for Eid coz he hadn't had enough but he has money to go across to fulfil his "responsibilities" by spending 4 days there. It's like going for a short holiday as they would be staying in a hotel & there's nothing much to be done except for eat sleep and shopping, it's true blessing for them and I'm here have to take care of my 4 children. I am thinking too of leaving him for good. I leave it to Allah he knows best.

I need to get ready to work I hope you are feeling better now after the wudhu and sholat. Take care my dear Stop crying I will pray you will get back your happiness soon.

@ameerah - yes there's 2 category of human; the good and evil. you may be the best no. 2 in this world I'm sorry if I'm misjudge but speaking from my experiences, the no. 2 is evil taking away my happiness after all good I treated her. But I know it takes two hands to clap I'm just angry coz I'm human too

Marcel - you are so funny. My husband & father to my 4 children will come home tonight after 4 days escapade. I'm gonna try the shaking head with long sigh & I hope I don't get a slam from him. I don't think my teenage girls dare to try that out.

Looking at your situation, a pain is really a pain even when the husband provide luxuriously for the first wives. I'm in a worst state - the pain is even more as husband not able to provide for the family but still insisting what he did is right haiz

have a good day everyone !

I apologize for not getting the comments approved quicker. Please accept my apology if I’ve seemed insensitive, as well ; this is especially directed to Huda and Muzakkir. Needless to say, I could use some help in the compassion dept. I've been told I'm lacking in it in my life, not only on the blog.

I have to come back ASAP to read the newest postings

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Marcel, As Salaamu Alaikum!

JUST READING your post lifted my spirits real high, as if magical. What's up with that?


I pray all are feeling much better. We all have those ups and downs depending on what happens or what's said etc. For instance, Alex has been with carolinah for the last three days. He's been trying to reach me by way of phone, but I haven't been home, busy getting ready to go away on vacation again, on Friday. (I'll try to check comments in the business center of the resort while gone. Relying on my friend hasn't quite been working out, but who knows what may happen this time.)

Anyhow, Alex called and caught me this evening while I was in the car. He was annoyed that he hadn't been able to reach me. I didn't avoid him intentionally just so you know. I asked what he was doing. He said, "I'm on my way home." I got confused thinking maybe he was confused and was coming to our home. I asked if he was coming to my house. That rubbed him the wrong way and he replied, "I thought it was our home." Nonetheless, he clarified that he was on his way to Carolinah's. It totally peed me off to no end, but I didn't let him know it. After I hung up the phone, I called him a b**tard and began venting and lashing out verbally. My friend said Alex needs to learn how to talk to avoid problems. He said Alex only needed to say something like, "I'm on my way in." But it's all good. It makes me stay focused and not on him. It makes me see him as insignificant and helps me to keep moving forward. It keeps me awake so I don't fall to sleep, so to speak. I'm beginning to realize again that he's not all that important. We just never know what's going to be said or done next that set's us off

The only home he has is ours - his and mine. I know; you probably think I'm delusional loool.

Huda, just remember, he didn't have to call. If it was all ceremonial, he probably would have called when he was alone. It sounds to me that he was having a good time, enjoying himself with the baby and was totally thinking of you, wishing you were there with him to share in his joy. He called you so you could be a part of it although you couldn't be there with them. That's just what I think. Men are pretty much clueless about women's feelings. He didn't know it would hurt you.

Tomorrow, you'll feel much better Huda. Every day is different from all the others


This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Most of the thoughts that we have are just the whispers of Satan telling us that our husbands are happier with the others; they love the others more; we should leave; we're fools etc. etc. etc. Satan is trying to sow discord between us and our husbands. He's doing a good job. Remember most suspicions are a sin. We have to learn how not to give Satan an ear. Begin dzkiring whenever Satan approach you. Remember Allah much. Don't give up. Keep trying to squash the thoughts and eventually you'll do it with ease. It'll become habit. It's tough initially, but can be done; I guarantee you!

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Sure, Marcel's comment is kind of funny, but all jokes aside… You need to ask yourself, is there any hope for rescuing your marriage? Does your husband still love you? Does he want to make it work with you? If so, don't play games and use childish shaming tactics. That will only create a greater divide between the two of you. Talk to him — openly and honestly about your feelings, your pain. And be honest with yourself too! Be attuned to all of that wonderful female intuition that God has given you. If he genuinely loves you, then you have a foundation to work from. If he doesn't love you, he could give you all the financial security in the world, and you would still have nothing. As an ancient proverb very wisely says:

'Better a meal of vegetables where there is love than a fattened calf with hatred.'

Lynn, did I hear you right when you said 'I hope I don’t get a slam from him'? Did you mean being hit physically? I'm sorry, but a man who loves you would never manipulate you through fear of abuse. If you can't depend on your own husband to love and protect you, then you have no obligation to stay… God loves you! I believe with all my heart that he wants you, and your daughters, to experience a life of love and not fear.

I think one thing we women needs to keep in mind is that a man needs to feel accepted, needed and appreciated. Donald and Light have advised us that men like to feel like heros or kings. They need to know that they make us happy and we love them. If a husband comes home and we express indifference, anger, bitterness, resentment long enough, he's not going to look forward to coming home, and won't want to be there with us. It took a long time for that to register with me. Alex was probably happy to go to Carolinah who welcomed him, smiling and content (Allah knows best whether she did or does that).

When I began to change my attitude, my life with Alex took a turn for the better. He was happy to come home and be with me. I looked forward to him being with me, and became happy having him home with me. Life got better. Even if at first we have to pretend to be happy and not angry with all the other negative emotions, eventually it becomes real; we become happy and all becomes good 98% of the time.

It's always good to hear from the men and get their perspective on what's going on with our husbands; after all they're men.

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Allah hates the word divorce why?
to make us think many times before we proceed into that as it will hurt everyone involved and destroy a whole family.

Even I was thinking of leaving my husband coz I got into polygamy unwillingly as i knew abt it only on eve of my marriage. But Allah makes women with more soft heart to forgive and more strong of Sabar.

I asked for divorce from my husband many times coz I wanted a peace of mind life as his first wife after accepting me b4 my nikhaa now is very aggressive and harassing knowing abt me going to hv a baby very soon. But then instead my husband cried n he told me something which makes me to think deeply.

with his first wife, he has 2 sons.
So he showed me his fingers of his right hand. He said, each one of these fingers represents a part of himself, his first wife, his elder son, his younger son, me as his second wife and now our first baby. N this makes his right hand complete, without any of us he will b incomplete and suffer for life.

We need to have an open communication with our husband all the time, telling him, wht has hurt us today, wht he must do etc etc for more consideration and not suffer alone.

Ana said: '[Men] need to know that they make us happy and we love them. If a husband comes home and we express indifference, anger, bitterness, resentment long enough, he’s not going to look forward to coming home, and won’t want to be there with us.'

Ana, that's very true. A relationship is a two-way street. Sometimes all it takes is for you to adopt a more accepting, positive attitude and the affect is has on your spouse can be amazing.

But again, not every situation is the same. Some issues are real and need to be talked about. What I'm saying is, it's better to be honest and talk about them rather than playing games like sighing and shaking your head, or a million other passive-aggressive behaviours women can employ. For the most part men just don't get these games, and it only makes things worse. If something is really, really eating you up inside, it needs to be dealt with maturely and promptly — otherwise it can fester and grow into real bitterness, which will most likely come out later anyway.

not even ali's barring recommendation can keep this kid down..

AMEN MARCEL!!

Ameerah, As Salaamu Alaikum!

I never got a chance to welcome you. I was really at a loss for words after reading your post. You certainly was bamboozled, it appears

Insha Allah, your husband repented for what he's done. It seems you're doing all that you can, exercising patience and seeking help and guidance from Allah. Perhaps Allah put you in this situation to bring you closer to Him, as He wants good for you. We don't always know why Allah does the things He does.

I pray for the best for you and your daughter. Try to be understanding of his other wife; she didn't know what she was in for or how she'd feel until she actually began living polygamy. Huda summed it up nicely. It's probably best just to leave his other alone and let her come to terms with what has transpired in her own time. But, I guess the problem really is her bothering you. I can't say a whole lot about that, as I'm guilty of badgering another myself. So, I'll leave that alone. Insha Allah, she'll eventually stop, if she grows stronger in faith and fear the consequences for what she is doing. I truly believe I will never contact my husband's other wife ever again. I truly, truly believe that.

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

yes Donald my husband loves to threaten me and kids. Last august on the fateful day he divorced me he threatened us with a chopper and that was when I called the police. I don't know why I am still glued to him whereas I really want to start fresh with my 4 kids. lucky thing I saw all the comments earlier otherwise I would have shooky head and gave him the longest sigh not knowing what he will do to me.

even Ms. P knew about my husband bad temper but she still loving him and agreed being his second wife. Allah knows best. even my children thought we are better off without him - they are always in fear.

Asalaam Alaikum

Thank you all for your positive words, duas and advice (marcel you're so funny man, you made me smile), I appreciate them all.

Donald: you said "Talk to him — openly and honestly about your feelings, your pain. And be honest with yourself too". That is exactly what I have done Donald, we have had heart to heart chats, I have expressed my grievances and fears, all of it. He promised he would try and make things easier for me, but Donald, saying and doing are two different things. When I challenge his broken promises he retaliates and claims it's unintentional, it can't be avoided, he has another family and they need him. How do I respond to that? It seems he has no choice. He still loves me Donald, but is love enough any more?

Ameerah: You said "We need to have an open communication with our husband all the time, telling him, wht has hurt us today, what he must do etc etc for more consideration and not suffer alone". Again Ameerah I do this, and my husband maybe more understanding but it does not necessarily mean it's going to change anything. If anything he probably thinks, 'here she goes again, complaining'.

My husband has had me barking in his ear for over 3 years now. Sometimes we are fine and get on happily, other times (especially when he is away) we don't and I express my hurt and anger to him continually. You see he has changed, they are becoming more important to him, which is only natural with time, so naturally he wants to be with them more. Now that doesn't do anything for my self confidence, I can tell you. Ana what you said is true, "If a husband comes home and we express indifference, anger, bitterness, resentment long enough, he’s not going to look forward to coming home, and won’t want to be there with us". I believe that is what is happening to me now. But I can't change the way I feel. I was patient for a long time and tried my best to be happy when with him, and yes it worked for a while. But now the mask is slipping and I can't keep up the pretense; one of the reasons why is because the goalposts keep shifting, shifting further away from me and my child. I keep asking myself, maybe because of my loving and accepting behaviour in the past he thought I was 'over it' and that he could now focus more on them? I don't know...., maybe I am just too selfish.

Like you said Donald, "it’s better to be honest and talk about them rather than playing games". So if I am honest, I am not happy with the way things stand, and by me acting all loving and happy is pretend just to make him 'feel good'. This pretense in turn makes me feel more resentment and bitterness. For example he just phoned today, but unfortunately, there was no pleasant conversation, just an exchange of words.

Ameerah it was fascinating to read when your husband expressed how he needed you "....this makes his right hand complete, without any of us he will b incomplete and suffer for life".

Let me ask everyone the question then, is it our duty then to put all our feelings aside just so that his life can be complete and he does not have to suffer? Wasn't it his choice to have another wife and family? So if one of the marriages breakdown isn't it HIS own doing? Do some men want to have one's cake and eat it too?

p.s ana, you owe no apology dear for any delayed response, I can't tell you how invaluable this forum is to me; any feedback received, at any time, is a plus, so thank you again for this site.

much salaam

"don’t play games and use childish shaming tactics"

"rather than playing games like sighing and shaking your head"

This is ugly donald, as well as unnecessary, he was trying to lighten the mood. He was not 'actually' telling her what to do with her life.

Muzakkir,

Let me take the liberty to be a "butt" in. I think many thought Marcel was joking to lighten the mood, but Marcel didn't clarify it was a joke. It may be easy for some wives to follow Marcel's advice, not knowing he was joking. The wives may think what he said had been tried, tested and works. Many wives that are met unwillingly with polygamy look for any advice they think may help. Donald simply was making it clear to everyone that what Marcel suggested should not be taken litterally. What he suggested would seriously only make matters worse if a wife were to follow that advice. If a woman is trying to work on her marriage, the last thing she should do is shame her husband and belittle him, making him feel worthless. I was glad and thankful Donald clarified and elaborated on it. I know where Donald was coming from.

It's nice that Marcel lightened the mood for us, but we need to be very careful, as you noted with me when I said wives should get over themselves.


Keep in mind what Allah says as well about jesting, many times it's true what they say, it was never a joke.

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Ana.

I spoke in that way because it was HUDA i was speaking to (not "wives"), she does not strike me as the person to ever "belittle" or "shame" anyone else, no matter what they have done to her.

Jazaakallah Muzakkir.

It was not a comment meant to be taken seriously and i never thought anyone would think of taking it seriously. What i said was because i know my father, and i cannot remember any kindness he has shown my mother or my siblings but i can clearly see the burden he has put on everyone else (his siblings and his parents) concerning us. My father does not feel shame or embarrassment, he doesn't see how family and neighbors look at him with disgust and how the old women in the neighborhood whisper about us, all because of what he has done. Even he's own father practically disowned him, When he married my mother he made a promise to take care of her and whatever children she bore him, he did not do this and he showed us he wouldn't even try. So i am grateful that ali recommended me barred and that donald, in a sense "mocked" me, because i don't ever want to recommend that some be removed from a certain place and i don't ever want to make someone feel mocked by, and im glad for my father that indulged in polygamy because i think it softened my heart to alot of things and it made me compassionate to alot of people, first wives especially. So i enjoy these "knocks" every once in a while, i think you learn alot from them and i think it keeps my heart going, if they weren't there any longer i think my life would be completely perfect and if that happened i'd probably lose my compassion to people and i'd like to hold onto that, if nothing else, i guess because it's something most people appreciate.

Thank you again for being patient with me, i wish your sister all the best!!

"Keep in mind what Allah says as well about jesting, many times it’s true what they say, it was never a joke."

Its easier on my soul to tell the truth in a joke ,because when i say it with a straight face and break down crying, he's not going to pat my back and hand me a tissue, he's going to tell me that im old enough to take care of myself. I know this because when my brother hit a low point he told him to get out of the house, and if my mother wanted to still defend him then she should leave too, so i cannot take your advice and reach out to him because i cannot see any good in him.

Salaam Marcel,

We are very happy to have you here . You're a very likeable person. We know you are hurt and in pain as are the rest of us. I pray Allah lightens, lessen and remove that pain soon for you and all of us. You're a very strong, resilent young man, and don't go down with the punches. Hang in there, remember Allah much. You're going to be OK


This is an open house. no need to knock. Just come on in.

Salaam Lynn,

As I stated before, I AM VERY CONCERNED ABOUT YOU. You've indicated your husband has a bad temper and you fear him. It's extremely important for you to be safe. You should speak to your parents and family about your fears. Let them know exactly how your husband is. Let them know you may need their help in dealing with him.

Be careful with what you say to your husband as well. Many time women plan to leave their husbands and let them know only to have their husbands kill them or harm them badly. You should have an exit plan (which should inclued your parents). Don't let your husband know what you've planned. You could use the help of your parents right now. Turn to them immediately.

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Huda, Salaam!

I understand what you mean when you say you try to be positive and in a good frame of mind, but it only lasts a short while and then you're right back to where you were, exploding, so to speak. It happened to me, as well. I figured out it happened to me because I was trying to please Alex. I had to focus on pleasing Allah and then things got easy for me and being positive, upbeat and optimistic became second nature. If we are kind, understanding, don't complain, let a person be him/herself because that is what Allah wants us to do and we want to please Allah, Allah is pleased with us and changes our condition. If we do good, SEEKING ALLAH'S PLEASURE, the end result is we do good to everyone around us, which would include your husband by default. I'm writing this quickly, as I must run out. I hope I didn't confuse you. Big hug for you!

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Muzakkir and Marcel… My intention was never to mock or belittle Marcel. Nothing in my comment was even directed at him. I was concerned for Huda and Lynn. If you care to read back before my comment you will see that Lynn had said, 'I’m gonna try the shaking head with long sigh & I hope I don’t get a slam from him'. So seriously, are you going to defend your right to have a joke while judging my right to speak the truth in the light of this? Should I be more concerned with Marcel's feelings than for the plight of a lady whose husband threatens physical abuse? Seriously guys, you need to learn that there is a time for joking and a time for being sober and speaking the truth. It upsets me to see you making this all about Marcel when there are much bigger issues here. (Thank you Ana for seeing my heart in this.)

Well this just illustrates a point I guess… When you do speak from your heart, people don't always take it well. The same when you try to talk things through with your spouse. I know my wife and I sometimes get into a heated argument when we try to bring up things we're not happy with. It's human nature I guess… All of us, both men and women, want to feel that we are liked, valued, appreciated, wanted. It's hard to listen to criticism — especially if we suffer from low self-esteem. The lower our self-esteem, the more we feel the need for encouragement and positive words from those we love.

I think that's where Ana's comment about seeking Allah's pleasure comes in. It should be our relationship with God that determines our identity — the way we see ourselves — more-so than our relationship with our spouse or anyone else. I think we can all (both Muslims and Christians) agree that Jesus had a truly intimate relationship with God. Even one of Jesus enemies made this remark to him (partly to try and butter him up, which is quite ironic when you think about what he's actually saying):

"Teacher, we know you are a man of integrity. You aren't swayed by men, because you pay no attention to who they are; but you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth."

So how is it that Jesus was able to speak the truth with no regard for the praise of men? Simple. He was seeking the pleasure of God. Not only was he seeking the pleasure of God, but he knew who he was in God — that his very value had nothing to do with what men thought of him, but what God thought of him!

So I want to repeat what I said before to you Lynn… God loves you. He loves you and your children so very, very much. I hope and pray that you know this, not just in your head, but in the deepest place in your heart. When we are aware of all our own faults and failures, it's sometimes hard to really believe that God could love us as much as he does — but think of how much you love your children. You know their faults and weaknesses, and still you would give your very life for them. This is how it is with God.

Fear and love can't coexist at the same time. That's a big statement, but think about it… Think back to a time where you felt 100% loved. Was there room for fear in that moment? God's love will give you strength to do what you need to do. You are precious to him. If all the world abandons you, He will never abandon you.

Huda, I have to believe that love is always enough. But love is not just a word we say, it is displayed in our actions. And sometimes it's not easy.

I honestly don't feel I have enough wisdom or insight to advise you on what to do. But I know that God does.

Although I am married to a beautiful woman (beautiful heart as well as appearance) I am struggling in marriage too. I continue to pour out my heart to God, and he has shown us a clear and beautiful sign that we are in his hands. And still I struggle to trust him! Me of little faith.

Pray that He will speak to you in your situation too. Know that he loves you and wants the best for you. And remember you have the wonderful Ana and others here who care about you!!

Salaam Ana and everyone,
My parents kinda knew it all and they indirectly had asked me to leave him - not to worry so much and start fresh. I realised after me stubbornly sticking by him and allowing myself and kids to suffer they left me alone to handle it but i am so sure they will interfere when the needs arise.

He came back last night i tried my very best to smile but i just could not. I totally ignored him. This morning I told him off but surprisingly he was so cool and told me to think of Allah and be patient. Just wait and the blessings will come he said. OMG! I wish I know what hes talking. Whose the mad one here, me or him ?

I am confused too and I know the kids are confused too, expecially my teenage gals. They cannot understand me at all. Why am i doing these to myself ? My son, aged 9 came to me and said "I know you are sad, ummi though you try to look happy" ... I wish his dad is more matured than him.

I am also crying as I am writing. Why do I have to go through these ? Its too much ... really too much to handle.

@Huda - believe it or not we are experiencing similar situations, though i am only into polygamy for 3 months. i believe that my situation will get worst when Ms. P has a child with him - though i try to think positive always. I had tried all ways to make him understand my feelings and fears etc, but to no avail. He has to fulfil his duties to both wives now and believing i am better off than Ms. P he expects me to help. but again i ask myself, "why should i help ? " divorce is not advisable in Islam, i know but in my case, should i just let him go ? He seems to be taking me for granted, using me all this while just because he knows I love him very much.

You see donald that way i saw it was that the comment was for HUDA, not for LYNN. When i read huda's comments, her husband did not seem like a whack job, when i read about lynn's comments i clearly realized her husband has anger issues. So when i wrote it i was thinking of Huda and not all other wives because i would not write such a comment to ana or lynn or some other wife. So when i read your comment i was taken aback because, i mean? I said this to Huda?

sighing and shaking your head

"Should I be more concerned with Marcel’s feelings than for the plight of a lady whose husband threatens physical abuse?"

I cannot answer you this because you never know when that last blow to someone's feelings will finally make them crack and I, having nieces and nephews can honestly tell you how ugly it gets when they feel they are caught between a rock and a hard place.

But yes, i do hope that if any of my nieces and nephews are ever caught in the same situation that people can take their feelings into consideration and not make ugly references to what they have said. I'm sure all parents would like the same for their children.

This is not about Marcel, this is me wondering and fearing if any children coming from polygamous homes will be treated kindly if they say or do something that another might feel is inappropriate.

Huda.

I've been reading your comments since you first commented probably, and i can't help but see that there's alot of sadness on your part.

I myself being an ex-first wife can tell you of all my negative experiences living polygamy as the positive ones were few and far between. You've mentioned that you would like to get out, move house and basically just start a new life, my question is why don't you? One of the things I've always realized is that people can give you good advice but they are not living your life nor can they get into bed with you. When i left my husband i did it because i felt it would make me a better, happier person, thus giving me the ability to present to my Lord a higher form of ibaadah. I remember when i used to make my salah while living polygamy, it was a decent salah, but it was very rushed i think and very cloudy, as well as alot of crying! Now my salah's i hope to be a perfect 10! because everything feels as if it has a flow, i can sit on my salah mat and just ponder and i know exactly what i want. While in polygamy i always felt that i never had these moments. i am not trying to entice you to leave your husband, but i have found that for me a big step was what i needed as opposed to those little small steps where you feel as if though you're never really coming or going.

I hope God gives you the strength to make the right decision Huda

Asalaam Alaikum Lynn

I am sorry you feel down, I am feeling a little calmer this morning, Alhamdulillah, I was reading my book 'a new earth' last night and it was talking about not letting our continual thoughts of past events turn into negative emotions. So today I am going to try and keep busy to distract me from thinking (yeah right, I need a lobotomy to stop me thinking, but here goes..)

You are so clued up Lynn, much more than I was when I was only 3 months into polygamy. I think that is my problem now. I believed when it first happened, (and others told me the same) "oh it's a phase, it's not serious, it's not going to last", and I sincerely believed it. I gave it 18months max!! I never even thought about what lay ahead, naive now, I know. Because of this expectation, I was hit with a thunder bolt when she first got pregnant. Up until then he wouldn't spend as much time with her as he did with me (much like your situation now Lynn) his focus was always on us, but then he started being more attentive towards her. Again I convinced myself it wouldn't last cos there were signs they were having problems. How wrong I was, cos now (baby no.2 on way)and he is with her even more often, they are more demanding, and I feel 'we' are no longer his priority, the tables have turned.

So Lynn, you are better prepared/informed,(not that you can ever be..) for what possibly lies ahead, because if she does have a baby with him things will undoubtedly change and he will feel more pressure from her, emotionally and financially, regardless of the conditions she agreed when they wed, because now she has his child and he has a responsibility to that child. I am not being bitchy but realistic, she will use the 'child' card at every opportunity (believe me that is what my no.2 is doing all the time).

I think Lynn our husbands know what 'type' of first wives' they have. We are intelligent, independent women with high morals and trusting hearts, striving to be good wives and mothers and seek to please Allah. They married us and love us because of these qualities. So, yes they probably are taking us for granted, assuming we will always be there for them and the kids. It's hard, because sometimes you want to just walk away just to prove to him 'look, I don't need you, manage on your own, goodbye'. You just want to see their expression, their reaction, shake them up a bit, knock their ego. However doing it is so much harder than it is made out and there are so many factors to consider. As my sister always says "the grass isn't always greener on the other side".

He is in it now, you can't change that but he needs to feel responsibility to you as well as her. I have advised you this before, try and stop yourself using your monies to pay for household expenses, that is his duty now (since he sought it affordable to have two wives), by all means use your monies for whatever YOU want, but do not allow him to pressure you to support your family. If he is supporting her, then he should support you regardless if you have any money/income of your own. That is not fair, it's not Sharia, ask any Imam. You said it yourself Lynn, by YOU helping him support the family, allows him extra money to spend on her. She is not worrying about paying bills, feeding the kids, she is only concerned about what money is coming to her.

You never know your situation may turn out to be very different to mine (here's hoping wink wink) Inshallah!! Nevertheless, it's good to prepare yourself for what COULD lie ahead, otherwise you're heading for a big fall, just as I did.

Be strong honey, but one last piece of advice, if he is ever physically aggressive to you or your children, I would run for the door (not literally but you know what I mean), as Ana advised, seek your parents and get advice from an Imam, cos that is unacceptable behaviour.

much salaam

Waalaikum Salam Huda and everyone

Huda you have said it all and I know what to expect now and later. Yesterday he threw tantrum again and almost brought the whole house down. I have hurt myself too, trying to cool him down. I found out Ms. P had stressed him on his last day there and he just left her there. Of course i did not know what had happened and my whining and nagging had made him more stressed and angry. The bruises still there and i am feeling shit.

This morning after he left home to run errands, he left me a text message apologising for what he did the previous night. My girls asked me to leave him. Actually that is what I have been wanting to do, but somehow it does not happen yet.

Financially, he is troubled i know and that is why he is so so stressed. He has only himself to blame. I cannot help him now.

Lynn.

I think we all would like to help you out more, but the best thing we can give is advice. And reading your posts i think many can agree that the biggest problem seems to be your husband. I think drastic measures need to be taken, We all can give you advice but you also need to take action, you need to think about your children as well, it is not a safe environment that they are in and if you are staying with him because you love him then i think that is, in the mildest sense, very selfish of you. The best thing I think would be for you to move out (with your kids), or at the very least try giving up more of your days. It makes no sense having him with you and not with mrs.p if he uses this time to mentally and physically abuse you. I hope you realize Lynn that your family (Parents, children, siblings) can only focus so much on you before they have to get back to their lives, if you keep finding yourself unable to leave for whatever reason, the day might come where you are ready to leave, battered and bruised but there will be no one available to help you. I recently read they saying, "Do not speak of your problems except to those who can help, otherwise you are creating a barrier between yourself and happiness." We can only give you so much encouragement, your parents, whom i'm guessing are not as young as they once were can ony handle so much, and your children too can only take so much before they begin to resent you for keeping them in this situation.

I hope my comment does not offend you. I only wish the best for you and your children.


Salaam Marcel.

Your comments are always such a joy to read and i know that whenever i see you're name in the comment box my bones will immediately start to tingle with excitement because i know you'll be saying something humorous, trying to lighten the mood! The reason for my comment is that my husband, also stemming from a hard life living polygamy, always talks about the children of polygamous men and how he loves talking to them so if you'd like this is my husbands email ecotillard@yahoo.com. I sure it could be very therapeutic for the both of you

Assalamo alaikom

For some time I'm trying to join this great, now like a family for me,network of honest and helpful people, but I had also some fears of undefined nature that prevented me from doing it. I live polygamous marriage for now more than half a year. I'm second wife to my husband.I have two children from my previous marriage and we are expecting a child form our marriage, inshALlah.Before I got married I knew the no. 1 we were very close friends.But right now we are everything than that anymore. We live in the same village, yet in different homes.From day to day I see my husband struggling a lot, not only financially, but also emotionally and psychologically.We live in a small Muslim country in the South Eastern part of Europe, and polygamy here is very rarely practiced, therefore also very harshly prejudged. this time I would like to thank all of you for the great support in the times of challenges.May Allah bless all of you and protect you and your families from all the harm.Ameen!

Asalaam alaikum Sureshni

Thank you for sharing your experience as a first wife, your comment was powerful to me, it hit a nerve. I have expressed in previous posts (Accept or Reject polygamy) my inability to focus properly on my prayers and how on some occasions I found myself missing prayers as I was 'preoccupied' with negative emotions and thoughts that consumed my mind. I contemplated leaving, truly believing that once I rid myself of this emotional battle I would be able to completely devote myself to Allah. Alhamdulillah, Ramadhan proved to be a respite, it helped me regain composure and 'temporarily' erase negative feelings towards my hubby and no.2. This blessed month enabled me to focus on reading the Quran, performing all my Salat and dhikr. However, back to the 'usual' now and thoughts are beginning to seep there way back into mind and daily life is once again proving to be a challenge.

Your 'new start' Sureshni is enlightening. It is good to hear that you recognised your shortcomings; acknowledged what would eradicate this, and more importantly TOOK ACTION. I admire you and I am sure Allah guided you to make the decision you did and clearly it was the right decision for you. I'm glad that you have now found happiness and more importantly your ibaadah has become much stronger, Alhamdulillah.

All we can pray is that Allah guides us to make decisions that ultimately enable us to lead our lives in complete submission to Allah, Inshallah.

much salaam

Sallam Ms. Elodie

Thank you for the email, but i realized after sending a page long email to your husband, and him replying saying,

"OH MA GAWD MARCEL!!! Harass me on either facebook OR my email!

Sincerely Elliot"

that it was actually mr.Elliot i was speaking to. Hows that for being left red-faced.

Haha, now i see why my husband was telling me to turn the page

Sureshni, As Salaamu Alaikum!

I'm so happy Huda welcomed you to polygamy 411 . Thank you very much for commenting. I second Huda's emotions regarding your "new start" in life upon leaving polygamy. It's always good to hear how others fair whether in or out of polygamy. Huda expressed herself so graciously and eloquently in a way I aspire to be able to do one day.

If you do not mind, would you kindly share with us a little about your ex-polygamous life? What were the lows and how did you arrive at the decision to leave the relationship? Any and all that you share would be helpful. Thank you, Sureshni!

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Elodie, As Salaamu Alaikum

I think you are new to polygamy 411, if I'm not mistaken. WELCOME!!! Thank you much for doing all you can to help us all here, especially for your efforts to help Lynn and Marcel. I pray Allah continue to bless you immensely for reaching out.

I agree that Lynn's situation is very volatile and unsafe based on what we’ve heard from her. Her husband undoubtedly could use a lot of help managing his anger, but we know many men refuse help, as they don't want to admit something's wrong with them. They fear asking for help means they are failures. I know a bit about domestic violence from years of having a professional job in which I had expertise in that area. I had experience working with victims of domestic violence and the abusers. The little that Lynn described is the "cycle of violence" that the parties experience - the walking on egg shells and the apologetic period "the honeymoon phase." There isn't much anyone can do, but be supportive of her, like we are doing, since we can't go there and remove her from the home against her will. It's important that she realizes her safety and that of the children are at stake. Let’s pray Allah swt give her the strength and courage to go forward, and her husband come to realize that he must change his behavior some way, somehow.

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

UmmNoura, As Salaamu Alaikum!

I'm glad you conquered your fears and bravely joined us here at polygamy 411. Thank you for becoming a part of our family, and especially for commenting. What you have to say as a wife in polygamy and as a second wife is very valuable, needless to say. Insha Allah, it could help us all come to terms with and accept that you have a right to a husband the same as any first wife, any wife, or any woman does, if Allah presents the opportunity to you or any other woman. Allah made polygamy permissible and that means if a man engages in it, he needs a woman that's receptive, right?

You indicated you knew the first wife and the two of you were some what friends, but the relationship became estranged somewhat, after you married her husband. I find that very interesting, as I've been giving that situation - a friend marrying a friend's husband - much though recently. A number of persons have contacted me away from the blog, regarding it. I think it's extremely difficult for women to remain friends after a friend marries her friend's husband. When the friendship deteriorates, the wives have no one to turn to for consolation, comfort, or as a confidant. Not only did she partialy lose her husband (now she only has him 50% of the time), but she lost her best friend.

A first wife agreed to the marriage, not knowing (no one knows) what the future holds. No one knows how she would react or feel once the marriage becomes a reality. We only know how we feel in the moment.

UmmNoura, it would be nice if you would kindly share what you found to be difficult about marrying a friend's husband or what changed between the two of you and why. Whatever you share we'd much appreciate.

I pray Allah continues to immensely bless you, your family and your new little buddle of joy that's on his or her way


This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Salaam everyone
Thank you so much for the advice. I have read almost everything, though i really dont know what to respond at this moment. I am confused now. I love my husband, but am willing to leave him if that would make our life less complicated and happier. I pray Allah guide me and lead me to making the right decision best for me and kids for our future, insyaAllah. Allah knows best. Meanwhile, please bear with my whining - this is the best place for me.

Btw, Elodie i love this phrase "Do not speak of your problems except to those who can help, otherwise you are creating a barrier between yourself and happiness.” Thank you

Lynn, As Salaamu Alaikum!

Don't for a minute thing that we think you are whining. We know you are not and many of us here know exactly what you are going through. I know it's not a matter of you just packing up your and your children things and taking off (leaving your husband). I know it involves much more than that. I understand you deeply love your husband, as well. The most important thing for you to do is make sure you and your children are safe, so try to avoid pushing the wrong buttons of your husband right now. Pray to Allah much that He protects you and your children, and gives your husband patience, tolerance, and control of his anger. Ask Allah to show you what to do and dispose of your affairs towards comfort and ease. Don't be hard on yourself. You're doing really good and we're here for you. Remember that! Allah is always with you, as are your specially assigned angels.

(It's not easy for me to approve comments right now, as I'm away and am trying to use Alex's computer as little as possible, so we could enjoy some time together away from the hustle and bustle. Insha Allah, I'll be back Friday evening, and will be able to resume our chats again on a regular. I'll try to check in to approve comments, but may not be able to comment as I'd like to until I return.)

Big hugs and lot of kisses for you Lynn. Stay strong!!!!

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Like Huda, I picked up the book, "A New Earth" by Eckhart Tolle, and began reading through it again. There is much in the book that is very, very helpful. There, however, is somethings the author refers to as "The Pain Body" that I chose not to focus on.

Below, is an excerpt of what I found helpful, but will leave out the "Pain body" stuff, and will put *** where the "pain body" is mentioned:

Emotion ***quickly gains control of your thinking, and once your mind has been taken over by the ***, your thinking becomes negative. The voice in your head will be telling sad, anxious, or angry stories about yourself or your life, about other people, about past, future, or imaginary events. The voice will be blaiming, accusing, complaining, imagining. And you are totally identified with whatever the voice says, believe all its distored thought. At that point, the addicton to unahappines has set in.

It is not so much that you cannot stop your train of negative thought, but that you don't want to. If that sounds to you like a pychic parasite, you are right. That's exactly what it is."

"A situation doesn't make you unhappy. Thoughts about the situation does." What we think creates the emotions we feel.

I think what the author refers to as the "pain body" is actually the whispers of Satan. In order to prevail over the thoughts and find contentment, we must stay in the moment and accept what is. We can't keep battling with what is or we will lose.

"Don't argue with fate or it will kick your a#$." I can't remember where that saying came from.

Have a good day, everyone


This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Asalaam Alaikum Ana & all

Talking about 'a new earth' Ana, I have tried so hard this week trying to ignore and slowly extinguish my 'pain body' and it has been working. I have tried not to let past events filter my mind, and looked at all the positive things 'present' in my life, which alhamdulillah are many. Great, I felt it was working and as you put it Ana 'the whispers of satan' were not as powerful in me......well so I thought.

I have realised that even though reliving past experiences in one's head maybe the root of the pain body, what about 'present' or 'new' experiences that happen right now. Honestly, this afternoon, I was just going along my daily business, smiling, thinking positive, looking forward, banishing any thoughts that tried to creep into my mind, when I had to call hubby about some urgent business matter. At first he didn't answer, and he didn't return my call. When he finally did answer (after 3 attempts) he was whispering and was not even listening to me properly, just hurrying me along so I would get off the phone. My prior moment of contentment suddenly evaporated and within me built up an inferno of anger and pain. How could he dismiss me like that? Obviously she was with him at the time and he was trying to pretend it wasn't me on the phone, Why? Not to upset her, or annoy her? He is hundreds of miles away so he should answer my calls and acknowledge me.

I know many of you will say, 'he probably has a very good explanation' or that I am reading too much into it, or over reacting, but the fact is 'PRESENT' experiences and other experiences to come for that matter (I'm sure there will be plenty) are affecting me, not just the past.

You see, I try, but little things occur regularly that send me straight back. It's such a battle, once I hike my way to the top of the mountain, breath the fresh air, a gush of wind comes and blows me down and I have to start clawing my way back up again. How much energy have I got left?

My husband and no.2 together is the past, present and future. I guess I have to truly accept that in order that such little occurrences do not inflict me with so much emotional pain....But even though I accept it, and rid my old negative thoughts about my situation, new experiences occur, which in turn create new thoughts, new emotions, new anxieties. It's a vicious cycle; is there no escape?

So after a somewhat good start to the week, I sit here alone with the same old voice in my head. Thing is, I hate feeling negative, I hate feeling angry and sad, I hate feeling like this!

much salaam

Wa Alaikum As Salaam Huda!!!

I am so happy to hear from you. I'm experiencing the same type of thing as you. I'm on vacation with Alex since last Friday. Up until last night I was having the most wonderful time, not thinking about Carolinah, polygamy or anything. At dinner last night the craziness began. We began talking about money. I've planned to buy my mom a home (she lost her home due to a foreclosure, many years ago), and buy one for my sister (who has cancer)to live in with her husband, but she'll have to pay rent (the same as what Lady WiccanWoman did for her friend). Alex began talking about how I don't trust him, won't give him any free money to spend, how I'm planning to spend money on everyone else, but give him no money, how he'd give me money, if he had it and blah, blah, blah.

It stirred up all I've been through with him - how he, without hesitation, paid several times for his step-daughter, her husband and children to fly to and from Egypt, how he gave his stepson and niece money whenever they wanted it, gave his ex-wife money, how he took care of Carolinah and all her needs and how every single time I asked him for something he said "No". I had to almost beg, borrow and steal to get anything other than the basics and vacations from him. I even had to get my Wali involved to help me get what I needed from him. He has a lot of audacity. Now he thinks I'm supposed to give him free money so he could go play "Big daddy" to Carolinah and her family. Although, he said he wouldn't do it, I'm not going to trust him. I'm only going to put my faith and trust in Allah, the only ONE that can be trusted.

The conversation took me back to where I don't want to be, obsessing with all of the above, re-living it all in my mind - how he deprived me, but gave to everyone else. I spent the remainder of the evening and the majority of today, until now, battling with thoughts, trying to remember Allah, reading "A New Earth", trying my upmost to get back to the happy, positive frame of mind I had been in.

Huda, reading what you're going through helped me realize that we will have a constant struggle with this type of marriage. I think it will be our Jihad (our battle). We’re not going to have one out on the battlefield so it appears we’re going to have the battle within ourselves, trying to stay focused. It’s one heck of a battle.

I feel much better now that I read what you are experiencing and after writing about what I experienced.

Hang in there Huda and don’t give up. I know giving up seems tempting. I began thinking about my relationships in the past and those of others and remember bliss on this earth doesn’t exist for anyone.

I feel much better now. So, I'll be able to pick myself up, go forward and enjoy the remainder of my vacation. I pray you feel much better too


This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

What do "they" say about men?

It has been said, the more you give a man the more he takes. The more you give and do for a man, the more he looks for you to give and and do. Sit back and become the princess and empower a man by letting him give and do. It may be difficult for we women who aim to please, but it worth a try; believe me.

Sit back and accept and receive. Show appreciation and gratitude. Make him your hero.

A man can sew, cook and clean for himself. What empower him is making him your king, your hero, your prince in shining armor. Let him rescue you. Be his damsel in destress.

What did Patti Labelle say: "I have a new attitude!!!"

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Assalamu Alaikum everyone,

I am not in a polygamous marriage. However, what prompted me to enter this website is the fact that my husband has been discussing it with me. I have not been fiercely against it, but encouraged the discussions, not wanting him to shut me out. In fact, I even suggested to find him a second wife. Am I being crazy? To tell the truth I am not even 100% sure he is serious about this, but I feel he might just be testing me, or my faith. But..... never say never. I would just like to add,that "Ana", I am completely blown away by your life story... that is, what you have endured and how you have persevered, Alhamdulilah. I admire you all - may Allah make the road easy for us all Incha-Allah. "Polygamy 411" has certainly given me a completely new perspective and given me much to ponder about.
Fi Amanillah... UmmHudaifa

Salaam all,

UmmHudaifa , I think you are right to be open to discussions with your husband about bringing another wife into your wives. I think that one of the number one problems/complaints that #1s have after the fact is that they were not involved or consulted and are not happy with the wife or something to that effect.
I think its your right to know and will be beneficial to making a healthy polygynous model if you are involved right from the start and there are no secrets! And its more likely that you can help him to choose a woman that you will love and get along with like a sister if you are being kept in mind and are active in this process.
Good for you to be a listener to your husband so he won't shut you out like you mentioned! I'm so happy for your attitude to want to be involved and in the know.

Last week my polygamous father said that he would be selling our house and moving us to a smaller one because it's cheaper, so me and my siblings beat him up. He did't file charges i think he was too embarrassed to tell anyone because nobody really likes him. It was good because after we beat him there was a peacefulness throughout the house.

Asalam Alaikum

What people seem to forget, a 'hypothetical discussion' is totally different to 'actual reality'. Look at the example of Ameerah, her co-wife agreed to her marrying her husband, but when push came to shove, she didn't like it and is no longer co-operative, but more hostile and aggrieved.

I know a woman (an old friend) who went along with polygamy, she thought nothing of it, she met the co-wife, and didn't feel threatened by her. On the wedding day which she attended (... I know what strength..) she began twitching and then that night when he went to stay with his new wife, she literally went hysterical! Seriously. When she realised that her husband was now going to share his life and BED with another wife she just couldn't handle it; emotions were stirred in her that she didn't expect or realise she had. She suffered mentally and physically; for several months she couldn't eat, sleep, focus on her children, she even began blaming herself.

The thing is, saying and doing are separate things. The first wife goes through the same emotional turmoil regardless of whether she consented or co-operated. Even if the first helps choose the 2nd wife, it doesn't make it easier, (look at UmmNoura above she was best friends with the first wife before actually living polygamy) You will never know how you will react or feel until you are LIVING IT.

I am glad you 'popped in' UmmHudaifa, I hope you find the information we share here beneficial.

UmmHudaifa, you may think your husband is not serious, but if he has mentioned it then HE IS (it happened to me and I, like you didn't think he was serious, boy was I wrong..) Think seriously and honestly how you would feel? He is going to share his bed with another woman, he is going to hug, kiss and laugh with another woman, he is going to share his monies with another woman, he may have children with another woman!
These are just a few things, as you said, to 'ponder about'.

much salaam

haiz .. words spread fast and suddenly more and more people were informed about our polygamous marriage. yesterday I received a phone call from my husband. he told me that many of our friends from the religious class knew about him marrying the ex-maid, Ms. P and they were carrying tales that he had sex prior to the marriage in our home. he told me he did nothing with her in our home and all that happened is truly fated. it's a test from Allah. He talked about many things ... about what made him married her and why I should hold on to the marriage. hmmm can I trust him ? he apologised again. is he playing a game seeking my understanding and sympathy ? if his marriage with Ms. P is not so much sex related, then what ? the more I ponder about everything the more painful it gets. the best thing now is to fully accepted it's fated and I can't change it. Allah knows best. Anyway, I have a choice ... to stay or to go May Allah guide me always.

Huda and everyone thanks so much for sharing.

Matvey,

Welcome to polygamy 411. I'm sorry to hear about the fisticuffs situation that happened with you, your siblings and your dad.

I know what you felt when you learned from your dad that he was moving you to a smaller house, as it would be cheaper. Alex taking from me was one of the things that bothered and haunted me the most. No one wants something to be taken from them and given to another unless it was agreed upon beforehand. The thing is, Alex kept taking and taking and taking all in order to give to another woman, a woman that refuses to acknowledge my existence. It ate at me and ate at me, bothered me endlessly, occupied my thoughts constantly. I kept battling with the thoughts and feelings, trying to eradicate them, not wanting to feel and think about it any longer. Suddenly, something that seemed like a miracle happened to me; Allah began to give me more and more till I had more than Alex and Carolinah and it made me feel like a new person. It empowered me, so to speak.

Matvey, I suggest (and I know it's extremely hard. I know from my own experience) you and your siblings try not to think so much about what your dad has done and is doing. Please keep reminding yourself that everything comes from Allah and Allah has everything to give to you. It's not an easy thing to remember. Satan makes it easier to remember your dad and how much you dispise him. but, I believe when you stop thinking about your dad and what his other wife has and is getting and truly believe everything comes from Allah and are given by Allah, you'll find you all will be happier and will prosper. It'll take a lot of hard work on your part to stop focusing on your dad and his wife, but the reward could be immeasurable. I think a lot comes to those that find themselves "victimized", if they try to rid themselves of the bad within and want to do and be good.


This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

I read on the blog that a mother left several of her children under the pretext of a dislike for polygamy. What type of woman would do such a thing? If she had an issue with her husband and they could not come to an amicable agreement then the proper thing to do would be to seek a divorce and take her children with her. To leave and abandon one’s children is a cruel act. Leave the husband and take the children or just divorce him. A woman should not just leave and abandon her children to satisfy her selfish nafs (desires). Allah says he will provide. He said don’t kill your children on a plea of want. When a woman leaves her children, the children take it out on the father because they have no one else to take it out on.

Ali

Asalaam, When i went to marry my husband all 3 agreed when he 1st told them eh was looking for a 4th, so when i met him the 1st was the 1st to accept me, the 2nd tried to convince him to put me to marry an older man who was widowed and lived near her, and the 3rd well this is her problem also she agrees to every thing he says so she agreed but
on the day we were to marry she ran off, we married and she stayed gone for 3 weeks to stop him, with him traveling back and forth to her sisters house. then he told her he will not come again if she decided not to come him then he will give ehr a divorce so she came back.
In the same aspect she thought eh did not really love me so she started acting crazy demanded he divorced me, wasn't taking care of her boys and pushed him to the point he gave her the talak!
Then she saw red came to my home trying to move in on me to take my time from me so i tried to be calm bcos eh was not there but she decided to get on my phone demanding he divorced me.
May be it was my anger at her, or just to get even but i told her ok you can stay with me ill set up the bathroom for you to give your boys a bath so i went in took off my thong and laid it on the side as she new he had just left me and went to his brothers engagement. id say she was in there all of about 5min came running out with her kids got dressed and left, Alhumduillah sorry if i offended anyone

Salam to all. This is a first for me as I have never joined a blog before. Somehow have never felt as compelled as I do now (even with other things I'm quite passionate about) to engage in conversations with 'faceless' personalities(Ana ur dp readily comes to mind). I am breaking my silence. I am a single mum approaching the issue of polygamy with trepidation. I look forward to being able to lose my fears and sharing more soon( trying to ease myself into this community of very interesting people, backgrounds and perspectives). I keep on reading the commentaries and cannot stop. I hold my breath as i contemplate a next move. Salam.

Mummimu,
Welcome to the bog I am Gail.I have been in a polygamous marriage for 9 years.I am American and my husband and cowife are 1st cousins from Pakistan.My husband gave 1st wife oral Talaq in Feb. first wife wants to rejoin the family but hubby is hot and cold when it comes to taking her back.
If you like to share I would love to hear where you are from and your story.

Mummimu, Wa Alaikum As Salaam! It's so good to have you here with us
You've met, Gail, one of our fine, wonderful blog family members. Thank you Sis Gail, for the warm welcome you extended Mummimu Yes, Mummimu, we are here for you whenever you feel comfortable opening up and want to share with us. I know it is quite awkward for you to blog for the first time. I remember how I felt my first time. It's a strange, strange feeling, but after a while, you'll get used to it. It's like therapy for me. Sometimes I wonder how I'd manage daily in my life without all our blog family members here to talk with. I am so grateful to Allah (Great and Glorious is He) to be able to communicate with everyone here. I believe it is a blessing.
Mumminmu, please check over on the right-hand side of the blog at the sidebar periodically to see the latest "most recent comments" that we've made. Sometimes it gets a bit complicated when we write on multiple threads, but we try to keep up
This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Salam Ana, Gail and all.
Thank you for the welcoming response. Was quite nice of you Gail to receive me. It does feel strange but heartwarming to know that there are people who care enough to want to share their experiences for the sake of having a better understanding of our place, roles within our deen, pleasant or not. I especially appreciate the contributions of Lynn, Huda, Dr. O. and Hilly (it's good to know that there are people who are still quite selfless, I pray your realities with the movement of your husband's wife to your end turns out to be a blessing that rewards beyond your expectations). and of course Ana, whatever you thought of to start this blog, even as you are honest and plain about your emotional battles,, especially those that may be considered to be weaknesses, may Almighty Allah lighten them for you and make each day that comes a building block for you to be one step closer to receiving Allah's mercies. Ameen.
I come from a monogamous background, that is, my parents are monogamous Muslims. I found myself at the crossroads of approaching polygamy with a serious mind when I met a muslim man (already married)after being faced with raising my child alone when his father and I went our seperate ways. Here ( I live in Africa), although polygamy isn't strange to us - in fact it's embedded in our culture, even for non Muslims -it comes with a lot of "it's bad news, stay away" vibes, and even the Muslim Ummah who are more aware of its ordainment by Allah ( with caution of course), it has met with a lot of resistance and manhandling and these days its just downright unfashionable. So if you are thinking it or contemplating the lifestyle (from the 2nd, 3rd wife's or wife to be's perspective, you are seen as someone who has issues, or is just downright desperate. You must not be an ambitious, forward thinking , empowered, independent lady!! So from the get go, it's looked at from the perspective of, what's wrong with the 1st wife and her husband, or what's wrong with you? There are many fishes in the sea you know kind of thing, why commit to one who already comes with a baggage?
Briefly herein lies the beginning of my struggles. I probably was one of those who thought that way too so I'm easily forgiving of the myopia or objectivity that comes with it. But what I know is that from that beginning till now, I'm not who I was back then because my thinking, perceptions on life has seriously changed. I do appreciate, maybe not enough, the first wife's position where she wants exclusivity, has built up a home on the back of her sweat and sacrifices, and here comes, some gal who want to divide her home! You bet you'd be getting the fight of your life coming to you. funny thing is, I admit if I was wife 1 too, I'd be heated up and prepped the same way. So in a way, even though Im wife 2 to be, with Allah's leave, I can only imagine if hubby -to -be comes sometime down our journey and pops up with 3!
From Day 1 of our struggles though, the reception has not been favorable generally. There are one or two people who have been supportive, and that 's why, Hilly's dIsposition is a breath of fresh air. I would not want to be an adversary( did I hear someone out there say"easy for you to say" . I truly pray for sisterhood and amiability. I can contribute but I can't will it on the other person especially because like, Ana, each one is entitled to her emotional struggles and the way she deals with it daily.
All we do now, me and him, is to pray and work on acceptance by his wife and my family and if Allah wills, will we only be able to move ahead.
Salam.
p.s: I certainly didn't think when I started writing that I'd be able to spill so much. Wow!

@Mummimu, Wa Alaikum As Salaam!
You did really good for someone new to blogging. Alhumdulliah! See, things can be a whole lot easier for us than we thought.
Mumminu, you're a very bright, intelligent woman, who has contemplated this matter much. You are not going to jump into this situation based only on your emotions and heart, which is good. When I was non-Muslim, I had a male friend with whom I was very close. We discussed most everything. I once asked him why with all the available women out there he was having such a difficult time finding one for himself. He replied, "there are a lot of available women out there, but none of them is the one for me." What he said always stuck with me. Then when I became Muslim I learned that Allah swt chooses our mates for us. It's ludicrous to tell a person that she should go get herself a single man. This man may be the husband that Allah has chosen for you.
You are a single mom and have met a man who you have connected with. Allah swt has permitted men to have more than one wife. If you have the strength, courage, and fortitude to confront and deal with the challenges of this type of marriage (polygamy), then perhaps you should go for it. You and he have an opportunity to begin the marriage on a good footing. He should let his wife know about you and that he wants/intends to marry you. He has to be prepared for the journey with his wife, which you know based on all you've read here, most likely will be a hard, rough and rocky road to travel. You'll have to understand where she will be coming from when it comes to you and him. She'll have raw, painful feelings she'll need to deal with. You can't expect much from her in terms of her being understanding about you and him and why and how the two of you could have done this.
You have an opportunity to sit with him and input on how the schedule will be, how much monies he'll contribute to your household etc. Make sure he understands he cannot make you a secret. He has to be upfront with his wife, immediate family and perhaps close friends. Most importantly the Iyats in the Quran addresses "just" and "fair" treatment of orphans. I'm assuming your potential intended may have children with his first wife. I don't know how old your children are. If they are minor children, he has to be able to treat your children the same as he treats his biological children. It is a must. If he feels he won't be able to do it, then he must stay with the one wife. Many think the Iyah in the Quran deals with "fair" and "just" treatment of the wife, but that Iyah is dealing with orphans. There are other Iyats in the very same Surah that addresses the orphans. We already know we are to be "fair" and "just" in ALL things, but orphans are special. Prophet Muhammad (PBUHU) was an orphan.
Mumminu, has he spoken with his wife about you or informed her that he is considering marrying another?
This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Salam Ana. In answer to your question, yes his wife is aware. She has been for a while now and of course the immediate reaction was as expected to his own amazement as he didn't think he was going to be dealing with outright rejection of the idea. I actually knew her a little as her husband who was helping with medical issues atbthebtime had introduced us and i had subsequently met with her on a number of occasions. Can't say we were friends but she's known to me and others as a very gracious lady hence my dilemma. She has gone through her fair share of stages of anger, sadness, hurt etc(still does I'm sure) but she has matured in her reactions from the days of calling to know where he was etc to just being chilled and playing her wifely role and perhaps 'pretending' that the issue or that I did not exist. I know for a fact that she most likely despises me, which is a high point of concern for me. We, myself and hubby to be, have been working on this for a while as he is an idealistic person and sees no reason why our situation can't be like Hilly's. It's been a roller coaster for us and sometimes, quitting and walking away seems a better option than fighting the odds. Ultimately however, we seek Allah's direction in the way to go and the steps to take because, first things first, I wouldn't want him to lose his family (everything he's worked for and loves) on my account, and secondly I do believe that Allah is the one in control. We have been courting for a while now ( about 2 and a half years) so it's hinges get quite weary sometimes and I wonder, what's the point sometimes. He happens to be very mature in his approach and the bond he generates with my son happens to be one of the reasons why I appreciate him as a person.
Polygamy is costly, that much I know, and I don't just meAn in terms of material resources, but the patience, the emotions, the depth of thoughts it brings, pleasant and unpleasant, the resilience it requires, selflessness etc. if there was ever any experience that probably teaches one great life skills, I'd say it's polygamy! Your thoughts Ana and those of others as first wives really help me with being patient lately, and the practices of people like Hilly gives me hope in the ability of the human to love what one may naturally want to hate.
Salams sisters, and perhaps brothers. I'm reading the other posts too, Del is just a happy person and she can't but care about people it seems, even in sickness-u are amazing.

Mummimu,
I am not a muslim but I will tell you this if both of u women are muslims then I suggest to you to go talk to her and ask her straight what her reasons are for not wanting you to marry her husband.If she has valid reasons then I would respect that if she doesn't then tell her straight you are planning to go ahead with this and you want to be friends if that is possible.Let her know that you respect her and thats about all you can do.I would for certain talk to the woman it is the least you can do and put everything on the table.
You never know she may have children and she feels ashamed her husband wants to take another wife that she is not good enough a million reasons are flying through that girls poor head and it really is up to you if you want to be a good person to help her through this horrible time in her life and make her see she is not loosing a husband but gaining a sister if she likes.

@Gail,
I like the advice you gave Mummimu. The strangest thing is I've never heard anyone speak from your perspective, regarding one co-wife befriending or reaching out to the other co-wife or potential co-wife. We hear it happens from time to time, but there is no real emphasis placed on the importance of it. If done in a good, positive way, it could be beneficial for success polygamous marriages. I assume communication between the wives starts off on a sour note the majority of the time, but with time it could get better. Looks like you're onto something, Gail

@Mummimu, Wa Alaikum As Salaam!
I'm glad you shared a bit more so we understand your situation a bit better. What came to mind about your story is "Cindy's" story. Her husband has known his intended for numerous years and they've been intended for quite a few. If she already knows about you and the two of you want to wed each other, what do you attribute the delay to ? I know nothing happens without Allah's permission. What is your intended reason? 2 1/2 years is a long time to be intended and held in limbo, especially when he is married and the relationship could result in adultery and fornication. What I've found with relationships that drag out in this manner, most of the time the parties never end up getting married. I was just curious what excuse or reason he gives you for not marrying you now, when marriage in Islam is so easy and simple to do. Are you satisfied with his excuse or reason(s) he gives you? If he feels he can be with you without being married, what would be his reason to rush to marry you? Usually when two people love each other they have an urgency to be with each other. I hope you don't mind me asking. I'm not trying to be confrontational. I was just curious
This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Salam Gail. Thanks for the advice. It had occurred to me a number of times to take the approach of asking her what she has against the idea or me, but thought better of it because I put myself in her position and tried to think if I could take that. The truth is more often than not, the reasons for not wanting one's husband to marry another is just that 'woman thing' in us. Call it jealousy, exclusivity or whatever. Once a husband decides he want another wife, the first wife feels betrayed and unappreciated and often feels that there's something she's lacking that he's looking for. He would be th first tobtell you by the way that there is nothing wrong in his relationship and he couldnt have asked for a better wife, because iv done and still continue to do my own bit in questioning and all that. It still is a curious area for me too. Iv asked: what makes you want me to be part of you? And as explained by him, its not because he has problems with his life, its just me as a person. Its easy to get carried away with the flattery of that but iv analysed it and believe its just thecway men are made. We women love the same pair of shoes in a number of different colours how much more where u can have shoes of different types to your liking because you have the liberties tovdo so. Only Allah knows why he created women the way they are with their deep emotionalities, yet he brought such a 'burden' their way.
Bottom line, she feels bad and the only person that is the object of her concern apart from her husband is this lady who has come to upset her peace. She will take some out on her husband but overtime, she will realize especially if she still wants to continue with her relationship with her husband that she can only do so much in showing her displeasure towards him. Which takes me back to the point- Ana, would you have liked C to approach u to ask for ur blessings?Will u really be open? Apart from where one can decipher that the other lady is truly f bad character, we all know the reason why we wouldn't want to address such is because we just don't want it. It's the way we are created first and foremost. It then takes, a patient wife to be, a God fearing man and a deeply committed and accepting woman believer to make it all work, with Allah's leave of course. Not a big deal, just a walk in the park . What possible reasons or good intentions do I want to present to her that she would find understanding beyond my present circumstances (single motherhood). I could have the best of intentions as we all know, but can I promise delivery if those intentions in the best of ways? In fairness she has been with her husband for a long time (going 20 yrs) without the polygamy issue rearing its head until now so she pretty much had grown in the comfort and security of the home they have created. I know one should take each case on its own merit, because people are different, but I have good reason not to approach her from an incident which indicated her level of discontent towards me/the issue. Besides, while he is trying to work on her, I am trying to work on my parents who like I explained earlier are monogamous Muslims but still feel polygamy is bad news. Hence why it has taken so long. Trying to change people's opinion about something does not happen overnight, especially If their co-operation and participation means the most to me. The issue was even a no go area with my parents at a certain point as they had expressed that they believed the matter should not be pursued. I have been able to make a dent in their perceptions but the rest they believe is up to Allah. That's my side. His side, she's not giving him the light of day to discussing the issue, like I said, she's taken the ostrich approach. What he then finds difficult is to march on with his decision without including her because he does not operate that way, and chooses to wawhoso explore other avenues of reaching her (perhaps close people)who can weigh in on the situation. He truly does not want to hurt her or infringe on her rights and fears Allah's wrath should he make a mis-step in handling the issue. Apart from that, I never had it in my radar of considerations marrying a married man, it's a new concept (only for others kind of thing)to me, it took a long time for me to churn the issue over in my head(churning continues till now) and it was almost definite that if i saw it coming and he approached me or was introduced as a suitor my position would have been completely different because it would have been an outright no; he would just have been 'off limits' to me. But he had been a close family friend for sometime in a different capacity and therefore, I definitely, nor him for that matter, didn't see this coming.
Recently when we discussed the issue again, he understands that despite the hurdles, he's got to take a decision. I have been very patient in all this because I realize impatience from my end can be inadvertent selfishness on my part playing out and may be construed as so many negative things by all concerned. I however also realize that even Allah does not support a prolonged courtship period as it would lead to Zina. It has reached the point where he takes a decisive step soon or Im going to have to wish him well as they say.
Thanks guys. It's good to unburden to those who can be objective because they don't know me and I have tried to represent the facts with as little compassion to myself as possible(I hope), so u can get a good picture of things.
Salams.

I hope I answered the question u asked Ana and it didn't get lost in all my jibberish. That is why doesn't he rush to marry me because of the urgency of wanting to be with each other( if there is no zina involved). Two main things: parental consent and first wife's acceptance. All other delays explained are just as genuine(orientation and fear of inequities).

Mummimu,
I have to say your english is very good and I just assumed you were from USA sorry for that.Since you are not in USA yeah I would not approach the first wife unless u thought it was safe to do so and now knowing in Africa it makes a woman look desperate or have issues if they want to practice polygamy thats a huge hurdle to overcome.I would say just make certain this man is really what you want because I thought my man was to good to be true and as it turned out he was.I would have done better to have waited and passed him on by but he just had to have me and went after me with everything he had and I was stupid and fell right for it.I guess what I am trying to say think of all the negatives that can happen down the road and be prepared for it.Keep also in mind you already know he has wife and kids at home and he is looking at you so yeah there could be a 3rd wife in the future.How would u feel then if a 3rd or 4th wife popped up out of the blue.Will you still be happy u married him or does the thought of that make u ill.Be honest with yourself because these are the real questions u need to be asking yourself now.
I don't think his wife will accept it and if he does marry you and she divorces him can you live with that?Only you can answer these questions for yourself.
I know it is ordained but dang it is so hard to really do it in real life.People have feelings they get hurt it is a fact of life.I hope you find the answer you are looking for I am still looking for my peace.

Ana,
I believe in all honesty for the majority of woman when polygamy happens they loose trust on their husbands and they secretly loathhhhh the cowife.
I been there and done that and I really believe with all sincerity that if everyone wants an open honest polygamy FAMILY relationship then everyone has to come together at some point and say you know what I am tired of fighting or acting like you don't matter to me.
I am not feeling very positive these days about my marriage to be honest and I think it might end in divorce before all is said and done but I am a firm believer if the wives have children by the husband then it is 100% important to keep a family harmony.How can that happen if the children know the wives are just dealing each other .Children understand these things from a very early age.
In Polygamy I really feel you have to loose the individual attitude and see the whole family unit as a collective whole for the sake of the entire family.
I really believe that Polygamy to best sum it up is either Shit or get of the Pot.It's ok to to be angry and upset for awhile but dang a person can't stay stuck on the Pot(so to speak) forever.
I don't know Ana it seems my thinking is weird.So far my logic is not working out to good.

Mummimu,
I have been thinking about what you said and I am back on the same spot with u again.Why is you intended husband dragging his feet with you?
Is he scared of his wife?Does she even know at this point about you and if so how has she reacted up to this point?I think you mentioned you actually know her if this is true do you and her have a personal friendship?Also why does this man desire and want to marry with you?I really think as long as you are not putting your life on risk(I mean as wifey not shooting or stabbing you)then I think you should really try your best to start this off on a good moral foot and talk to your intended husband and tell him that you think it is a good idea for all three of you to meet in private and discuss this in private amongst you.Thats what I would do if I were you and I tell you why because you are being sincere with her and you need to know if she can accept polygamy from an Islamic perspective or does she simply think like society and say Hell to the No on polygamy all together.I don't know if u even want a relationship with your cowife but if you do then you should in my humble opinion include her in this process.It is just a really humble thing to do and I hope she will love you.Now on the other hand if you do not think she will ever accept polygamy then you have to make a choice to either marry him and deal the negatives that come with polygamy or walk away thats pretty much where your choices.
In my opinion cowife will need to confide in someone about all this and I think that person should be you.I also don't mean like you storm in and start throwing all this at her you need to become her friend and her with you.If you are both muslims I think this would be alot easier because you have a religious doctrine to guide you and talk about the prophet Muhammad marriages and get a feel what she thinks about his life and wives etc...
Also I am very curious do you know very many polygamous marriages where u live and are the successful?
Bottom line for me is I think you should get to know her and see what kind of person she is because in all truthfulness your going to be sharing her husband and maybe children.
As for me personally I would NEVER knowingly marry another woman's husband without her blessing but that is just me.
My husband and cowife deceived me otherwise I would not be in polygamy.Also these are my personal views about polygamy but I think there should be a reason other than sex and friendship to take more than one wife like want a huge family or first wife can't bear kids or she is ill(dying)or can't keep the home up.These to me are valid reasons to have plural marriage not because hubby needs a greencard or wants more sex but thats just me.

@Gail,
I think you may have missed Mumminu's previous comment in which she explained a bit about her potential co-wife and husband. To make it easier for you, Gail, here is the link: polygamy411.com/polygamous-wives-are-they-friends/#comment-40793
@Mumminu, As Salaamu Alaikum, I was thinking about what you stated. You said,
“He truly does not want to hurt her or infringe on her rights and fears Allah’s wrath should he make a mis-step in handling the issue.” Does he not know he has already “hurt” her and that he is continuing to hurt her, as long as she knows he is contemplating marrying you? You said he doesn’t want to infringe upon “her rights.” What “rights” are those? Does he feel or think he will not be able to share his time and wealth fairly and justly between the two of you? Does he fear the wrath of Allah because he may not be able to share his time and wealth fairly and justly between the two of you? If it is the case, should he NOW be intended to you?
You mentioned you and he want everything to be right with other people, in particular, your parents and his wife before the two of you marry. Is that even possible? Is it necessary? If so, polygamy may not be for either of you, as I doubt all of you will be on the same page at the same time. It’s just not the way life works.
This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Mummimu, yes a resounding yes with caution that you should meet first wife to know her feelings and resistance to her husband taking on second wife.it will be all of the for her heartbreaking gutwrenching devastating self esteem crashing, rug being pulled out from under her feet reasons. Top that with the fear that children won't have as much of their dads time if he has another family, and lets face it we women think who will take care of me when I'm old and tired..my hubby..oh yes he has another to take care of. Tomorrow is no guarantee but wasn't picturing three rocking chairs on the porch as we are watching the sunset (sounds like it could be an erectile dysfunction ad like on TV) when you see her doing quote wife things maybe she is just surviving trying to make her life as normal as possibllefor sake of family...maybe she's strong enough to hold it together until she gets home.maybe then she doesn't appear immune to your presence and breaks down. I wish you luck if this is your path.if she hasn't left him by now she won't but would appears theresbigger reason for delay like if he goes thru with it marries you and she divorces him child support alimony issues.PS don't understand 2and a half years of courting as a Muslim.does that mean chaperoned?or dating...which is another reason she's upset. She knows where he is.I think there is a saying when a man and woman are alone shaytan is the third one present.scary thought but where have you managed to meet court this long?just looking all sides.seems you have waited very long time for something that won't be...resolved easily or painlessly...

Salam Gail, Ana and Aisha. Again thanks for your contributions. Gail like Ana said you must have missed some details I had provided. Per approaching the wife, I don't think it's a good idea, like I said Icahn envisage how things would turn out from other things that have happened and it's not violence, it's just pointless until perhaps there is a major shift in equations. Ana with regards to your question on why he thinks he can't be fair etc, I think he's just trying to be generally cautious because as you know one may have the best of intentions and plan things in the best of ways but one may still end up stepping on toes. He may want to be fair, but even 
Allah has said he is limited in that regard as Allah alone can attain perfection. Hence some of his fears, that's all.  Also Ana, it does seem like an impossible task to try and have everyone on the same page but we cant relent in our efforts to achieve this and just proceed by ourselves( u know Ana that parental consent apart from it being desirable, and being veeeery important to me, it is generally non negotiable in Islam). The wife's acceptance is also important in trying to make for good relations within the home in general. It may never take care of the hurt that she would feel, perhaps for a long time to come, or even never, but it behoves us to try our best in not making the situation for her any worse than it is by being considerate(considerate might not be the right term, it makes it sound like  we are doing her a favour). I'm sure you'd say being 'considerate' is not marrying her husband at all, but then that takes us back to the question of polygamy itself and Allah's intentions for permitting it. May Allah not test us in ways beyond which we can bear, but until you are faced with a particular set of circumstances that drive your decisions in a certain direction, you will truly never know. The position of wife  1 , i get it (I'm a woman too so I get some of it). I also now get the position of wife 2, wife 3 etc simply  and only because im in her shoes. So let's be careful not to render the position of any one unacceptable except on the grounds of character, and even so, we never are better and behave better if we do not err in our ways first and through better insight after correct our prejudices. Our living is a learning process and a testament to Allah's perfection only. Aisha, with regards to how we have managed the relationship for so long practically, it would have been impossible perhaps disastrous, if salat and family were not a constant reminder of our boundaries and fortifying force in our journey. I do pray to Allah to guide me on the right path when I believe I'm getting complacent and I believe acceptance by all key parties is my own way of knowing that Allah has a hand in this. Finding this site was one of the pointers I needed to make informed and faithful decisions. I'm not trying to be mushy or patronize for the sake of sounding good or something,  but the impact of this site is more than you guys will ever know. That is why I believe we have to be careful in the way we address or castigate each other sometimes as I have noticed in some of the other threads. It can generate drama and laughter i admit on the part of the reader, but its important to be mindful of the fact that our backgrounds, experiences, personalities have a lot to do with our perceptions and behavior; by all means we speak frankly and make our opinions known, however, there is always a good and bad way to do something, even something good. I know our stress modes get in the way sometimes but Let's strive for clarity and communion rather than engage in berating ourselves the way iv observed with some of our contributors sometimes. We are responsible to Allah for all we say and particularly write to another(we can sometimes forget what is spoken but there is always a reference point to what is written) so please let's be sensitive, we are not all the same. We are all here to seek for knowledge, know-how and support, so let's do exactly that. If you can't be supportive or don't like someone here for whatever reason, let's be quiet! May Allah increase us all with the knowledge of his ways. Ameen.
Salams 

@Mummimu, Wa Alaikum As Salaam!
You stated, “I’m sure you’d say being ‘considerate’ is not marrying her husband at all, but then that takes us back to the question of polygamy itself and Allah’s intentions for permitting it."
NO, I would not say that. I believe in polygamy, which Allah swt has permitted. I don't believe that UNDUE consideration should be given to anyone when it come to a person wanting to engage in polygamy. I know we are supposed to be just and kind in our dealings with all. We can do that in polygamy. Where does all these other rights come from, though? We have to face the fact that people get hurt when they live polygamy because of what is in their hearts. We have no control over what is in someone else heart. Polygamy should cause people to take a good deep look at self and see where they need work and many times we all need a lot of it.
I'm unclear what you mean with regard to "parental consent" when you said, "it is generally non negotiable in Islam)." Is that a cultural thing? I don't recall in the QURAN where Allah swt says a person needs parental consent for anything. I know He speaks of us being kind to our parents and respectful to them and we should give them some of our time, unless they try to get us to disobey Allah or turn us away from Allah. Allah swt in those same iyats, regarding our parents, tells us to serve Him and not to set up partners with Him. So we need not to get it twisted. We need to be careful not to make our parents our lord. Allah swt never told us to let them lord over us. They have no right to rule our lives. Perhaps you should view the video polygamy411.com/should-parents-select-their-childs-spouse-rule-the-childs-life/ In your case your parents don't like polygamy; they don't like what Allah has made permissible. Since it's the case, do you listen to them with regard what you'd like to do - marry a man and become his second wife? Let's face it, if Allah swt say polygamy is permissible, there will be women who will marry them; therefore, it's permissible to be a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th wife.
My thoughts, for what they are worth to you, is that your intended and you put the cart before the horse in becoming intended and remaining intended with the obstacles you two face. You and he place so much emphasis on what others think and how they feel about your relationship and potential marriage. So, if it's the way you want to do things, have you considered becoming UNINTENDED until you can work all these issues out. Become unintended and he work on getting first wife to accept polygamy and you work on getting your parents to accept polygamy for you and then maybe SOME DAY, Insha Allah, when you both get them all to do this, he and you can get intended and can marry. The way it is now, it seems first wife is being subjected to her husband dating another woman and it's been going on for 2 1/2 years. Does it not seem wrong to you on a number of levels? Do you not think that first wife could use some peace without you being with her husband while you are not married to him? That would be consideration.
This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Mummimu,
Yeah I guess I missed some of your post about parental consent and your other issues.All I know is if the two of you want this marriage then you will have to make some hard choices to make it happen.Needing parental consent sounds like a culture thing to me but again I am not Muslim so I don't know.I do agree with Ana since after 2 years you and him can't seem to get your ducks in a row I would back off because honestly you don't have rights on him or his time at this point in the game and if I were his wife I would be fighting mad at you and him if you are indeed spending time together.I don't know that you you two are doing that but if you are this is not good because he needs to be home with his family.I don't know 2 years is a very long time to be in limbo I would make a choice very soon if I were you.I hope you get what you want but reality is his wife is not going to be happy on this topic anytime soon and I doubt if your parents have not agreed so far then likely it won't happen anytime soon.

Salam Ana. Yes we have put it into consideration,in the past and presently as we speak(being unintended that is). There is a lot of background to this as I said earlier. It's not as cut and dried as you have stated but I do understand your processing. Perhaps with more time i may get you to understand things. Trying to have you understand all that has transpired within a few question and answer sessions is perhaps unrealistic considering the forum and a couple of other things..I shared key issues, there are other underlying factors that perhaps with time I may get into that will shed new light and further deepen perspectives. Thanks for your imput.
Salam.

I may be quiet for sometime, there is a lot in the head and on the plate now, and spirits are not so high, so just in case u guys would wonder what's up with me. Thanks for all the counsel sisters.

Mummimu, Wa Alaikum As Salaam!
I totally understand that you need some time to sort through all that's going on in your life I know it's not easy for you; you are emotionally involved. I'm sure you love him.I just know of instances in which people have been intended for a long, long time, wanting, wishing, hoping and praying that they wed one day soon, but it just doesn't happen. I think there is a difference when both the male and female are single and intended, but it becomes way more complicated when the man is already married. For him to have love and affection for a woman who is not his wife is dangerous. It's why I think you find most of the husbands who fall in love with other women end up marrying them fairly quickly.
Your situation has got me wondering whether a woman would rather her husband marry another woman and be done with it and she go through the pain, suffering and healing process or she knows her husband is intended to another woman, longing for her, romancing her for years with intention one day to marry and there seems to be no closure to the situation. At least if he goes ahead and marries her, they could settle into a polygamous lifestyle.
Mummimu, I didn't mean to hurt you. I just wanted to be truthful and upfront with you and let you know what I'm thinking about it or how I see it. It doesn't make me right. We're not hear just to feed people with what they want to hear.
We're still here for you, when you want to talk with us further, Sis Mummimu.
This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Yes mummmu don't retreat from the site.it can be very cathartic healing to get it out. For all of us everyday may be different. Yes I'm wife 1 and have very young Co wife. I myself extended the arm of peace after it started in secrecy.no easy task to push forward to get to know a woman that you don't even know how she got there.I have said before the only thing she has on me is youth and she will be my age one day. I would call her a curious choice on anyone's part...but trying to follow Gods allowance and possibly get more blessings. Tough tough work.I say I am developing the mind skills control of an army seal or CIA agent-it takes strength and fortitude to move forward with this. We are a little out of sorts with a disagreement and I am distancing myself from her a bit but many families may have that.hang in there...I did get impression there was more to be said....you are a cryptic blogger...like a writer of mysteries. In my case truth is so much stranger than fiction!

hi i need some advice.im 24yrs old was married wn i was 21.my hubby and i are actually from the same family and i always felt safe with him,i also loved him like crazy tho i dont know wether he loves me the same. after 1 yr of marriage and we got our first baby i accidentally saw a text on his phne that he was sending to this woman and calling her the intimate names he calls me. trust me my world crushed and when i confronted him he said it was a text he was sending to me but i could see clearly the name of the other woman (asmaa)...
he begged me and was sweet but i felt so betrayed cz he was sending her money also.im from a wealthy family but i never asked him for anything because i knew he was struglling to pay tuiton fees for his orphan sibblings.i even supported him financially bcz he needed it.after the text i tried my best to bring him back,wore perfume alot,made good food bt he was still withdrawn even refusing sex many times..now i feel more grown up and i stopped begging him and worst is i lost all trust in him and felt he wasted my life.
my strong love for him is fading bc many at times wn we argue he tells me he will take 3 other wives,he doesnt care..he even once asked me not to love him the way i do...he tells me nt to gve him attention but take care of my son,he makes me feel like this old wman..he tells me love fades away..i can see the clear lack of intrest in me
all that said he is a supportive person tho not emotionally and he loves our son alot...im working an doing well alhamdulilah. recently my father who probably feels pity for me told me he will educate me and i can study watever course i want,i want to do medicine cz it was my passion but im scared my huubby will look for another wife to assist him financially as i will be studying
at the same time i feel doing medicine will make me happier than my marriage..could i be escaping?..im confused
at times i feel stupid getting married as at home i got watever i wanted and life was simpler..i fear my son will not have his father..i was raised in a broken marriage and i dont want my son to live the same life i did...
please advice as i dont knw how il cope with feeling unloved even more wn he marries..i already feel unloved as he is withdrawn emotionally and at times even refuses to touch me

Hi. I am not Islamic.I am a very modern American woman. My husband and I have been married for the past 10 years He has shared he desire to have a second wife. In the beginning I wanted nothing to do it. Over time I gave in and agreed. But, she had to meet my approval in all ways. He agreed. My standards are very high. Making them extremely hard to meet.

We interviewed and became familiar with 8 women. They did not meet approval for one reason or another. We went out of my country and met "M". We have been in contact with her for 9 months. We are in continuous communication. There is no jealousy and no secrets. The 3 of us talk together at least 3 times a week for one hour each time. She calls us and we call her. We text each other. Chat online at least once a day. We send letters and cards. We E-Mail.
She is bi-sexual and so am I. From the very beginning she was looking for a family. My husband has his second wife to be. She and I also have each other. I have ask her to also marry me. She has accepted. My husband and I deeply love this woman.

Salaam Ana

I have been trying various times to be "friends".... it does not work... I get myself into trouble time and again as No.2 takes everything she can to make my picture black and I have lost my husband almost for good, until he found out how No. 2 operates and what her true colours really are. Alhamdulilah

Bobti, Wa Alaikum As Salaam! You're new here Welcome! We're happy to have you with us.

Alhudulillah, Allah swt revealed to your husband what number 2 was really about. There's something in some of us that makes us want to reach out and communicate with the other, and try to be the sister-in-faith that we think we should be - even if in the beginning we reject polygamy and the other wife. It's a need that I don't think anyone would understand accept a person who has been in the position.

It says a lot when a woman marries a married man, and wants nothing to do with his family. She has to know nothing about Islam to do it or simply cares nothing about what Islam is about.It's as though she rather accept a mistress status. It says a lot about the husband who marries said woman, knowing she wants nothing to do with his existing family.

Bobti, we are here for you, if you want to talk with us about anything. There are a lot of beautiful people here, willing to listen and give feedback. Again, welcome to our abode.

@Everyone,

Please note, we have two threads going here now. It's interesting because Aishah and I was speaking about something along the same line on the more recent thread that we all are conversing on.

Bobti, you may want to join us over on the more recent thread, which is: polygamy411.com/marry-a-pakistani-man-beware/ You can talk about anything there, not necessarily the topic at hand.

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Hi Bobti and welcome,

I'm Kim and have been here at 411 for a little over a year, since my husband married #2. They split at the end of 2012, tried to reconcile, which didn't work...Now this week they are back in communication and going to try again.

I had a very tough time with all of it...with finding out about #2 "N", with accepting it, with supporting it, with communicating with N and trying to establish some kind of relationship with her. Talking with her was an exercise in walking on eggshells....it never failed I'd say the wrong thing that would set her off, and she'd blow up my phone with texts. The last attempt at reconciliation before this had her coming very open, or so she said, and I wanted nothing to do with it. My husband, "M" went rounds with her trying to make her understand why her behaviors (with him as well as me) made it so he didn't want to be around her. And inasmuch as I thought I'd accepted everything and had at times acted as though I accepted everything, deep down I wasn't there yet. I am now.

As I said, we're trying again. I'm MUCH better about all of it now, and am open to N and a potential friendship/sisterhood with her but am being careful. They really want this to work, and it has to be approached slowly, with openness with all. Whether she and I will be best friends/sisters or just on casual friendly terms only Allah knows, but as long as we're not fighting or maintaining a hostile silent truce, we're doing better than we were. It's tough, man. I generally choose my own friends based on certain qualities and things we have in common (being a total introvert whereas N is a total extrovert, we clash on lots of levels!) N was sort of shoved into this position and I was shoved into this position of befriending someone I had nothing more in common with than a man we both love. To be fair, so was she. But being the outgoing type she is, she has it a lot easier than I do, I think. I don't know.

M saw N as she really was, but he loved her anyway. Still does. He can't quit her. Divorcing me is out of the question for him and honestly I feel no real compulsion to leave him either, though if he wanted to divorce me and have N as his only wife I'd understand and accept it. He swears that isn't going to happen, but only Allah knows.

She accepts I'm his wife and he loves me; his challenge is to make her feel as vital to him. It's not easy - she needs a LOT of reassurance, due to her position as #2 I'm sure, and she is what I'd call innately needy in nature. He's got his work cut out for him lol....she and I truly are as different as night and day.

Blessings to the forum. I don't have a comment as much as i have a question. Is it the responsibility of the first wife to make the 2nd wife comfortable with polygyny? The 2nd wife came in with no relationship to me, she made it clear that she did not like polygynous marriages (to my husband). He married her anyway, they have children, i don't have my husband anymore, due to alot of time spent apart. But, for some reason, he believes it is my job to repair the breach between her and myself that they both created...I'm confused, please help me out.

@ Hannah,

I wanted to say hello and let you know we are on another thread.

Your story touched me because you sound like my husband's cousin would have sounded. Let me give you something to think about. I'm not Muslim, I'm Jewish. I cannot wrap polygamy around my mind and in the U.S., I am the legal wife.

The thing is, you don't know what he pumped into her mind. In my case, he doesn't go back to Pakistan, just sends money. It was an arranged marriage and she has never been here, has no rights, and subsequently divorced her (without any of my doing).

Now that you got the thumbnail sketch on my situation, he may have told her a story how you have grown apart and he stays married for the kids, blah, blah, blah. She might have been sold a bill of goods too. Is she Muslim? If not, there is your answer. She wants nothing to do with polygamy.

I've never contacted the cousin. Note, I call her the cousin, not the wife. I do not recognize it because I am not Muslim and it goes against my belief. She has a lot of children, so do I. While I don't think it was deliberate, she got all your husband's time in the end. Mission accomplished.

You may want to get an Imam or someone involved so you get your rights. Just know, if she isn't on the same page, she might make your husban's life a living hell. I have never spoken to her, met with her, became friends, zero communication. That was how I preferred it.

@ Hannah,

Typo.... Like her (meaning your co), I have a lot of children. I didn't make myself clear.

Welcome, Hannah,

As Jenny said, we're on another thread but I wanted to say hi.

To answer your question, it depends on what you're being asked to do. I mean, roll out the red carpet? Or just have a civilized conversation in which you let her know how you feel, and not make her feel like an "accessory after the fact", the fact being his marriage to you. If they've been together long enough to have kids, apparently she's settled in to one degree or another with being a co-wife, even if she doesn't like it. (Jenny here is the huge exception but her circumstances are unique...I'm assuming that your situation isn't the same).

Though you mentioned that you don't have your husband anymore. What do you mean? I assume not in the separated/talaq/divorce way, since he wants you to connect with wife #2. I firmly believe it takes 2 to tango, and NO it isn't solely up to you to bridge that gap between you and your co. She has to meet you halfway. And your husband needs to conduct himself as a polygamous husband, NOT leaving one wife feel that she doesn't have a husband anymore. If he cannot do his part, I see no purpose in having you buddy up with your co. It wouldn't make any sense to me.

@Jenny & Kim,

Jen and kim, thank you much for welcoming Hannah, and for letting her know we are all talking on a more recent thread. polygamy411.com/marry-a-pakistani-man-beware/ I appreciate it much. I didn't even catch it when I approved the comment.

@Hannah,

I'm glad you've joined us here and you've met our dear Jenny and kim already. Welcome. Please join us over on the more recent thread. You don't have to speak on the topic there, but can speak of anything related to polygamy. Thank you.

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Hello to everyone, i think it would be great if women who are married to the same man to be friendly with one another. However, it would depend on several things, the way she was brought into the family, whether or not she had the intention on living a polygynous life, or if she had in her mind that she wanted the man all to herself. As for the man, how exactly is he building up his house, is he telling wife #1 one thing and wife #2 another? It's alot of factors involved. I must say though, alot of this depends upon the husband too. I hope this makes sense. peace & blessings.

Hannah,

What you said makes sense to me. There are a lot of factors and variable that a wife has to consider when a husband expects the wives to be friends. All of what you indicated has an influence in how the wives will relate to one another. Jenny touched on the same thing you did about what the husband psychologically feeds the wives. I had thought to write a post on it.

A husband most likely plays both sides. For instance, he may tell the second wife all that he may think is problematic in his marriage to the first wife, so the second wife thinks he doesn't love the first wife. He may even say the first wife may have a nervous breakdown, if he leave or the whole blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

On the other hand, he may tell the first wife that the other can't get a husband, is in serious need of financial help and how pitiful the other is and he only wants to be charitable and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

How he thinks those stories will bring wives together is beyond me. They are just some selfish men. As Jenny stated, if the second wife is not Muslim, then she most likely will reject polygamy. She has no reason to accept it. It is not her religion/way of life. She'd be content trying to rid the husband of the first wife or will be content to live as his "mistress" so to speak. Fornication and adultery may not have been foreign to her to begin with. So, what's a little polygamy to her - play marriage, maybe

The ideal for me would be the Muslim husband who recognizes that Allah swt permits polygamy, tells the truth that he wants to have another wife because it's allowed, marries another Muslim woman and they all try to worship and serve Allah together. Based on what I know of my own life and the stories I hear here, most of these Muslim men who engage in polygamy care little about Islam when they become polygamous. They are already married to non-Muslims or they are married to Muslims, but their BELIEF (not just the act of going to the mosque, praying and the rituals (for a lack of a better word) in Allah is lacking. Allah swt say don't marry for "lust". He says if you follow the "lust" of your heart, you will be lead astray (from the path of Allah).

How many Muslim men bring women together to worship, serve and obey Allah? How many become polygamous to satisfy the lusts of their hearts- satisfy their desires? They become polygamous because it's permitted? They want variety; they want more than one relationship with a woman; they want a boost to their ego; they want to be manly men



Hannah, you asked whether you have a responsibility to fix his mess. If everyone is on the same page, there would be very little fixing that needs to be done.

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Thank you for your insight Ana, although we are not a muslim family, we are followers of the torah, the basis for getting involved in polygyny is the same to worship the Creator and do His will on the earth. As i sit here reading over the different comments i noticed that most of us share in the same feelings, and the fact that there is some unfair treatment and behavior when it comes to polygyny. I myself being the first wife am kinda what one would call "laid back" i enjoy taking care of my husband, i don't make waves and don't like confrontation. Being so, i am the one who gets overlooked, taken for granted and left out of things, and not by my husband. He has tried severally to bring us all together but for some reason it hasn't turned out that way, and what him and i decided that we wanted for a "family" has fallen by the wayside. When he says that it is my responsibility to bring the #2 around to the idea of family, what i'm hearing him say is because i understand this lifestyle i can somehow get her to see and then she will want that too...NOT!!! She has had a monogomous mindset from the beginning and everything is leaning towards that and it makes me very sad.

Thank you for the welcome Kim, please forgive me i am just reading your post. What i mean by "i don't have my husband anymore" is she #2 keeps him so occupied with things to do on his off day from work, that i don't get that time with him and also because they have a baby also...i don't how this is gonna play out here and i now am very insecure.

Thank you Jenny for welcoming me to the forum as well...again, forgive my ignorance of how to post properly and what threads to follow, i am new to how to do things here I am learning alot here, thank you to all of you ladies here

Hannah,

No worries about posting here. I'm sure it can be confusing. Some people have sent posts to my emailed that belonged on the blog. I direct them to the blog etc. The only reason we ask our writers to write on the newest thread is so we keep track of where everyone is. If you drop off the (radar) recent comments list on the sidebar of the front page, we may forget you're here lol, but it's okay. We're following you

Hannah, I'm so glad you've told us more about you. I initially thought based on your name that you are Jewish. When I was in the workforce, I worked with a lady named Hannah. She and I were very, very close and she and her daughter came to my wedding reception. There is another writer here who is not Jewish, but is from the descendants of the tribes of the Israelites. I hope I got it right. I don't mean to offend her or you. I'd look up her posts, if I could remember her name and tell you exactly what she follows. Our dear Gail, here, is interested in the Torah. She is not Muslim, but is married to a Muslim man.

We women do share many of the same emotions, feelings and thoughts when living polygamy, regardless of what religion we are. I understand your frustration. Is it that you and your husband decided together to add to your family and brought the now co-wife in? The husband initially thought you'd be able to help her acclimate to the lifestyle; you'd show her the ropes. You thought she'd workout, but now it appears she has an agenda - to have your husband all to herself. That mentality is not foreign to us. We hear of it here quite often. What we've found is men usually aren’t equipped to straighten the situation out themselves for some reason or another, which leaves the wives at odds with one another and one dominates.

I'm interested to hear more about you and your family, Hannah. What does your co-wife/sister wife say when you bring to her attention how you feel? Insha Allah (If it's God's Will) I'll be back soon to chat with you.

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

Oh no my sister, you didn't offend me at all, I'm glad to be a part of the discussion group...at first my husband and I had dreams of having a big cohesive family, but his views have changed and I know it isn't something that he would do on his own, he seems to be dealing with things that I know wasn't part of the hopes he and I had, he brought her in, everything changed and now he asks that I reach out to her to have her to change her outlook and she is staunch against sharing, it seems hopeless. Things are so divided now, he has two families instead of one. I have to just get used to it.

Hannah, I totally understand, as I have been down this road with my Co. And while my husband hasn't said it, I know he feels that this time around will be much smoother and less fitnah if I take N under my wing and not treat her as an invader into my "turf" I get that, but he also has to understand that I choose my friends and who I associate with. Me. Not him. I'm happy to talk to her but not constantly. I'm happy to give her a little insight from my point of view so she understands things better. That does not constitute being best friends, to me. I feel more like a counselor

I think it's unfair for your husband to lay this expectation on you to bring his other wife around. That's not your job. I am sorta doing that too, but my talks with her are an effort of mainly trying to curb her destructive behaviors, NOT trying to get her to accept polygamy itself (I am quite certain she does now LOL).

Hannah,
I just seen your post welcome to the group.I am also Torah Observant!!!!! and Jenny is Jewish so u will fit right in on the blog don't worry.I was sorry to have read from your post that your cowife has had an agenda from day one to really only practice monogamy.I know this is very hard for u to to deal with this type of behavior.I am not certain how long your husband has been married to second wife but I can pretty much assure u if he tells her straight he is not going to divorce you and thats that then she will be forced to either move on or accept polygamy.Now in saying that I myself wonder if majority of wives do feel the need to try to get rid of the other wife or at least keep the other wife looking bad in husbands eyes.This is kinda normal behavior because a wifes desire is for her hubby to think she is the best so when another woman is taking her husbands attention part of the time she feels it is a competition.I know I am guilty of feeling that way when I found out and said I would try to accept it.I eventually accepted it well kinda I accepted it with my excowife but it was to late.My cowife was a real little stinker and caused me alot of turmoil but I really try to see past it all and try not to play the blame game as it is a useless game to play I personally feel.
I think in your situation you are like me and was hoping to be the three amigos and have a one family unit marriage it seems.I love the thought of a one unit marriage everyone living and working together to build a strong family unit.I totally love that idea! I don't know if it really ever happens in real life but I can see if all three are working together then it is more than awesome.
If this was your husbands and your idea of what u wanted then I think the both of u need to sit cowife down and all three of u have a heart to heart talk and try to work out a solution to this problem.I don't feel all hope is lost so don't give up hope yet.I don't agree with hubby throwing it all off on u though.I really think you three need to go to dinner and sit down and really talk this out together as a family unit in my opinion.That way your cowife will see straight up that you and your husband are a team and u both want her on the same team.Anyway thats what I would do.
I don't know how bad your cowife has acted toward u but if you really want this one family unit then I would do a sit down dinner the three of u and see exactly what she has to say.

Thank you Gail for your response I can say that at first i was a little intimidated by her presence in my husband's life and he has done nothing but try and reassure me of his love for me...I do appreciate that from him, I haven't felt the need to compete with her or try and make her look bad in his eyes, she spends the majority of the time with him so, what I do is try and get him to understand that my marriage to him is just as important as his is to her. I don't want him to get rid of her because I know how that would make him feel, but I don't think the feeling is mutual on the other end, I'm not trying to come on as some kind of saint because I have definately felt my share of anger and resentment not for sharing, but for being excluded as if my presence in his life is insignificant. I really do thank you sisters for your input and very wise suggestions.

I agree 100% with everything you said, Gail...but it's way easier said than done. We tried that more than once, and it was a dismal failure. N didn't want to hear it, all she did is steer the conversation into "why, if you love Kim did you pull me into this? I cannot love you as a married man!" Of course that was followed by declarations of undying love and that she can't live without him, but I digress.

I drew one very solid conclusion today - seeing N in person and talking to her in person sends me into a weird psycho tailspin. She overwhelms me somehow. I don't know if you've ever heard of "psychic vampires" but basically it's someone that you just cannot handle being around and when you are around them, they suck the energy out of you, drain you, and change your mood drastically for the worse, and for no definable reason. Precisely what happened last night and today. I feel like, after seeing her for about a half hour, that I'd been through the wringer. It was NOTHING she said or did, she was more than pleasant to me, it was just the energy she gives off makes me feel like that. It's happened every single time I've been in her physical presence.

Talking on the phone, noooo problem. She's a chatterbox on the phone too but I can handle that - if it gets too much I pass the phone over to M and leave the room. On the phone I I actually like her. But being around her physically gives me such a negative reaction. So I don't see any cozy 3-way sitdowns in our future. Or 2-way, for that matter, between she and I. I wish I knew what it is about her that affects me like that.

Kim,
I had the EXACT same feelings with my cowife.Those feelings are overwhelming.For me it was the fact that I tried to reach out to her and she acted standoffish towards me sitting her A$$ all day at the inlaws,never asking me if she could help me with homeschool,never cleaning the home or cooking meals on time or keeping the clothes clean,talked horrible about me behind my back and to my face.She sent me messages loud and clear she didn't have any desire to do anything for me and hinted around to hubby numerous times.
You may be thinking to yourself dang Gail why didn't you do your own laundry,meals,clean etc... the reason is I help hubby work and bring in the income and her job was to take care of the home and cook.I was busy 10 to 12 hours a day doing homeschool with my children even I was suppose to be on vacation NOTTT.I was trying to work through my negative feelings with cowife but she had no desire to work things out and even after 6 months divorced she and her family still demanded hubby divorce me and kick me to the curb go figure.
I wonder if u are feeling the same way you know N told her feelings about not accepting polygamy at start and not to mention all the negative feelings between you two so yeah I can totally see you not wanting to rub elbows or hob knob with her anytime soon.
Kim chances are u may never really click with N but the more important thing is u keep trying to strive for fairness and don't sin I think thats all anyone can ask.Listen if it makes hubby happy u can sometimes maybe do a dinner together or all three go grab dinner and a movie.It don't have to be a everyday thing but thats if u are willing.

@Gail,

For M I'd be willing to try, to a point. But not yet. Not now. True, the history of negative interactions probably plays into it, and if she has changed that hardly is fair - I was no saint myself in how I acted towards her (though most of it was taken out on M). It's just, IDK...something happens when I'm in her presence and it takes literally a couple of days to get out of it. Last night I told M to just ignore what I say and do for a bit, til I work through it.

Being in a SEVERE bout of PMS is only adding fuel. It's a few days late for some reason, probably my diet and exercise regimen is throwing my body into something. Once that's over and done I'm confident I'll be 100% back to me again

Good morning everyone, @Gail, i was just reading your post, how did you handle knowing that the co-wife was being so antagonistic towards you?