A esposa no Egito promove a poligamia
por Ann em Nov.14, 2009, durante o poligamia na mídia
CAIRO, Egito (AP) - Hayam Dorbek quer que o marido para se casar. Novamente.
Levando-o - e no resto do Egito - para ser mais aberto a poligamia como aprovado pelo Islã, o jornalista de 42 anos, desencadeou um intenso debate no seu país e no resto do mundo árabe em sintonia na TV por satélite.
Dorbek diz que sentiu o seu trabalho era mantê-la tão ocupado que o marido precisava de uma segunda esposa. Ela diz que ele recusou, “mas meu filho está me ajudando a promover a idéia de,” ela disse.
Ela sente que o conceito islâmico da poligamia é a resposta para muitos dos males sociais do Egito. Ela tem escrito artigos com títulos como “Uma esposa não é suficiente,” e ajudou a formar uma associação chamada “Al-Tayseer,” ou facilitação, que promove a poligamia.
Alguns estão furiosos, dizendo que faz com que o Egito parece conservadora Arábia Saudita e é ruim para as mulheres - equivale a “exibi-las em uma escravos’ mercado,” de acordo com Nihad Aboul-Qomsan, chefe do Centro Egípcio para os Direitos das Mulheres.
O debate exemplifica o cabo-de-guerra entre conservadores e liberais em um país que está repleta de símbolos ocidentais e idéias ao mesmo tempo, tornando-se mais Islâmica.
Muitos avivalistas do Islã conservador assumiram uma retórica moderna, apresentando-se como uma alternativa para um ocidental decadente. Dorbek reformula a licença que o Islã dá aos homens se casem com até quatro mulheres e lhe dá um sabor moderno, pertinentes ao mundo de hoje.
“Estou ligando para os direitos das mulheres: seu direito de se casar, mesmo com um homem casado,” Dorbek disse Associated Press. A poligamia é uma “licença de Deus para estabilizar a sociedade e resolver seus problemas.”
Para problemas familiares da vida familiar, como o adultério eo divórcio, Dorbek acrescenta “spinsterism” - As mulheres ainda único em seus 30 anos, e sendo, possivelmente, estigmatizado como uma presa fácil para homens ou mulheres sedutoras predando homens para sexo.
Sua solução: engate único, mulheres viúvas ou divorciadas com homens casados que podem apoiar financeiramente, e fornecem igualmente para mais de uma família. Isto irá parar os homens de negócios ter e fornecer as mulheres com um guarda, ela argumenta.
A lei egípcia permite a poligamia, mas é menos comum do que nos estados do Golfo Pérsico e na Arábia Saudita. Para uma coisa, é caro. Por outro, alguns programas de TV e filmes tendem a enfatizar seu lado negativo - maridos incapazes de lidar com múltiplas esposas, mulheres em sofrimento emocional.
“As correntes na sociedade secular silenciar as vozes islâmicos e afogá-las,” Dorbek disse. “Apelo aos árabes e muçulmanas para aceitar as leis de Deus.”
Mas Dorbek reconheceu que a oposição não vem apenas de seculares ou ativistas de direitos, mas também de alguns religiosos que acreditam que existem condições estritas para a poligamia.
Ela diz que teve uma educação religiosa e decidiu ir a público sobre a poligamia, depois que um amigo lhe disse que ela estava pensando em se divorciar de seu marido para secretamente tomar uma segunda esposa. Dorbek recorda dizendo-lhe: “Por que você iria destruir sua casa e resolver um problema criando outro?”
Sociólogo Alya Ahmed disse que as chamadas para a poligamia refletem uma tentativa de reconciliar a religião ea gratificação sexual em uma sociedade machista que vê as mulheres como objetos sexuais.
“Cultura e as tradições não lhes permitem (mas) para brincar, de modo a poligamia fornece uma brecha e permite que eles afirmam que estão agradar a Deus,” ela disse. “Mas é realmente sobre a luxúria e prazer.”
E sobre as crianças? O campo pró-poligamia diz que é bom para eles, porque ele impede que o divórcio e mantém a família unida. Os oponentes dizem que as crianças sofrem quando as mulheres em uma família poligâmica briga.
Dorbek filho é 20. Ela também tem uma filha de 18 anos de idade.
Ela diz que centenas de homens reagiram à sua campanha, buscando sua ajuda para encontrar uma segunda esposa, e dezenas de mulheres também têm contato com ela dizendo que eles estão dispostos a casar com um homem casado.
Algumas mulheres aceitam casamentos polígamos de solidão, devoção religiosa ou o medo do divórcio. Outros acham que é muito humilhante e optar por se divorciar de seus maridos.
Nagwa, que pediu para não dar seu sobrenome para proteger sua privacidade, diz que um homem casado já casada, em vez de ficar só na 40. Ela disse que ele propôs a ela com o consentimento de sua primeira esposa porque sentiu uma obrigação religiosa de proteger uma mulher muçulmana.
“No começo eu estava preocupado,” disse Nagwa, que vive na cidade do Sinai el-Arish. “Mas quando você está com uma pessoa que teme a Deus, ele vai cuidar de você.”
Nagwa disse que tenta tratar as mulheres da mesma, mas ela sabe que ele ama a sua primeira esposa mais.
“Dói um pouco,” ela disse, “mas ele tenta não demonstrar a sua preferência.”
Arafat Sayed, um empresário do sul da cidade de Luxor, tem três esposas e está a ponderar se casar com um quarto. “Você pode ser casado com apenas um, mas ter um caso. Qual é o melhor?” ele disse
Crédito para a informação acima: Roma Notícia-Tribuna, da Associated Press “há quatro anos”
Deixe uma resposta
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Como Alaikum Salaamu!
Bem-vindo à poligamia 411! Nossa casa é para os muçulmanos e não muçulmanos. É para todos que quer falar sobre poligamia, ou qualquer um que está em um casamento poligâmico, ou está pensando em entrar numa. Nós gostamos de ter companhia. Sinta-se confortável e participar da discussão, deixando um comentário. Estamos ansiosos para vê-lo aqui novamente em breve e muitas vezes.
viajar 4 menos!
November 14th, 2009 em 5:32 PM
I viewed this as a good article. It touched upon a lot of the dynamics of polygamy such as:
.The right of women to marry
.A “License from God”
.Women displayed in a “slave’s market”
.Alternative to adultery and divorce
.Spinsterhood
.Husband unable to cope with multiple wives
.Secret second wives
.Claim of appeasing God, but really about lust and
pleasure
.Children suffering in polygamy
.Humiliation and divorce
.Husband loves first wife more
The way I see it, the subject of the article apparently loves her work more than her husband, which is why she has no qualms about her husband marrying another woman.
November 15th, 2009 em 12:22 PM
Interesting article. It brings up several good issues including one that bothers me a great deal. Spinsterism.
I know many women in their mid/late 30′s who have been seeking for a husband for years. They want a family and children but guys generally are just jerks!
These are very good women who deserve IMHO a man who will cherish and care for them. It’s depressing to see them struggling for a family and being denied it because it’s illegal?
I’ve heard many people say polygamy is ‘ruim’ because it encourages crap like what happened with the FLDS in Texas. Interestingly enough, those problems are not exclusive to polygamy but marriage and life. Stuff like forced marriages, underage marriages and abuse are all illegal and yet happen everywhere. And with a divorce rate where over 60% of marriages fail? Doing the same things over and over again to solve the problems with society and expecting a different results is IMO the definition of insanity!
It’s interesting to see that Russia is now thinking of legalizing polygamy. I read it in an article a few weeks ago. Em”ll see if I can find it if interested.
November 15th, 2009 em 1:15 PM
U235sentinel,
If you come across the article again, it would be fantastic if you’d send it to me. I’ll post it. I’m learning so much about polygamy as it exists around the world; it’s fascinating. I never thought living polygamy would bring me here learning so much and meeting such wonderful people.
You are absolutely right about the problems that they want to highlight and attribute to the FLDS. Como você disse, “Stuff like that…happens everywhere.”
I can definitely see how many women are denied happiness when they are forbidden to marry already married men. Contudo, I think it’s not cool when one of them latches onto my husband. I’m just not liking it (It’s fun using slang sometimes). Like Carolinah for instance, I see how she really needed Alex. I could see her not having many, if any, prospects for a serious relationship. De qualquer maneira…polygamy has its benefits and has its huge drawbacks for first wives, bem.
Esta é uma casa aberta. Não há necessidade de bater. Apenas venha.
November 15th, 2009 em 2:30 PM
the way I see it is some who loves her husband and know that the Koran gives good guidance.
Jane the second wife from Egypt who loves polygamy
November 15th, 2009 em 4:23 PM
Hi Jane,
Thank you for sharing your perspective. I sincerely appreciate it, and am happy to hear from you. Peace!
Esta é uma casa aberta. Não há necessidade de bater. Apenas venha.
November 15th, 2009 em 4:25 PM
Agreed. My wife and I have spoken about latching issues in the past. She reminded me that I had a similar experience with work. Spending soo much time with work that the family was in bed when I left for work or came home from work. It’s very important to maintain a balance otherwise life breaks down and nobody is happy.
Hopefully this is something Alex is keeping in mind. It’s too easy to keep revving up activity and before you know it, you’re always busy and missing the point of having a family
BTW, found the article and emailed it to you.
November 15th, 2009 em 8:36 PM
Another thing everyone should keep in mind is the woman in the article, promoting polygamy has not engaged in it yet. Her husband, it appears, doesn’t want another wife. She has no way of knowing how she would feel and react, if she was actually in a polyamous marriage. It’s a whole different story once someone is in a state of reality, actually living it. She has no way of knowing what she’d feel in the future, living a different lifestyle. It’s easy to speculate how things will be.
I believe first wives who deeply love their husbands always have some problems with jealousy, inveja, and the like when another woman comes into play. It’s reality.
There would be more credibility to what the woman in the article said had she been coming from the position of a woman already in polygamy.
U235sentinel, I received the article and posted it; no entanto, hosting is experiencing problems with the server. They’re working on the problem so, hopefully, all will be able to read it soon. Obrigado muito!
Esta é uma casa aberta. Não há necessidade de bater. Apenas venha.
November 15th, 2009 em 9:42 PM
You’re welcome
November 21st, 2009 em 12:43 PM
There is absolutely no justification for polygamy in Egypt. The most recent statistics show there are far more single men than women in Egypt and therefore to take more than one wife is greedy.
November 21st, 2009 em 1:22 PM
Micer, hi and welcome to polygamy411. I’m glad you’ve joined us and shared the article. It was very generous and thoughtful of you. It’s a very informative article. I was ignorant of the stats of single men and women in Egypt.
I’d love to know what Jane Akshar of Egypt in a polygamous marriage would have to say about those interesting numbers and your view.
Esta é uma casa aberta. Não há necessidade de bater. Apenas venha.
November 23rd, 2009 em 4:23 PM
Micer,
I gave what you said some more thought. I don’t think a man should be labeled greedy just because Allah has given him more wives than he has given to others. Allah says he give some people more than he gives others. Allah chooses our mates.
On the otherhand, I think I recall from a hadith that a man had more than one wife and another man had none. The man gave one of his wives to the man, with her consent I’m sure. Please correct me, if I’m wrong.
Esta é uma casa aberta. Não há necessidade de bater. Apenas venha.
November 24th, 2009 em 1:58 PM
Micer,
Today I posted the article that you provided us from Egypt-news/13-million-unmarried-egyptians-report. (Please take a look.) I thank you again much, Micer, for your view regarding the matter, and for sharing the news with all of us.
Esta é uma casa aberta. Não há necessidade de bater. Apenas venha.
November 28th, 2009 em 11:40 AM
The problem with the number of single people in Egypt is the enourmous payment, like tens of thousands of dollars, demanded by families, before they will let a couple marry. Add to that the man must have a flat and have it furnished it is no wonder young men can not afford it
November 29th, 2009 em 12:51 AM
Hi Jane,
I think that’s happening in Saudi, bem. I came across an article referencing Saudi and the high dowery requests a while back, but didn’t post it. Maybe I’ll be able to find the article again.
Thank you much Jane for shedding light on the problem. I didn’t know the demands for high doweries were being made in Egypt too.
Esta é uma casa aberta. Não há necessidade de bater. Apenas venha.
November 29th, 2009 em 8:55 PM
All;
I have enjoyed reading your notes and comments.
Poligamia; Islam; all new to me. I am a Christian; American
As the proposed to: 2nd wife. (I am a widow for 4 anos)
I have great turmoil deciding if in FACT; Polygamy works. I think in a society of female oppression it works. In a place where woman are not equals, it works. In a society, where women are taught that it is good, ok and approved, it works. IN a society of living in the past, this NEED, of a man is built in, and to me is a primitive way of thinking, but it works. Wait, wait, wait…..Really, It works?
I am a highly successful business woman; Eu não “NEED” a man. I do have the NEED to be Loved, at this point in my life. Will I compromise for a Part-Time Love? Love is the greatest thing and to love with all your heart, and get only a piece of a man’s heart, seems insane, unnatural and for me, out of the question.
1 man and 1 mulher; Only way I see life working.
I think this means there will be no wedding for me, but we will see.
November 29th, 2009 em 10:51 PM
EgyptianLovingAmerican, welcome to Polygamy411. It’s nice of you to join us. You have an interesting play with words. I enjoyed reading your comment. You made me laugh.
Don’t be such a pessimist
You reminded me of me a bit. lol I’ll bet there are wedding bells for you in the future. Keep the faith!
Esta é uma casa aberta. Não há necessidade de bater. Apenas venha.
08 de janeiro, 2011 em 8:47 PM
Okhti how did i miss this one OOO yeah i had not joined you yet, but nice one
November 1st, 2011 em 8:03 AM
As salaamu Alaikum: My husband of three years said that he is going to divorce me because I have not given him a green card after being married for this length of time. I am currently in a polygamous relationship that I really really love. It was one done without the knowledge of his Sayedi family to avoid major problems. Contudo, I believe that my husband, the good man that he is, has become frustrated since I have not succumbed to the usual request/demand to sponsor my spouse for a green card. I am an American but I have asked him, “Had I been a citizen from Zimbabwe for instance, would you have asked me to file for your citizenship in
that country?” De qualquer maneira, in the event the divorce occurs( I have not received the talaq yet)I would like to become a co-wife to down to earth sisters who possess the understanding and love for polygamy. It is really not a big deal if you mind your own business and live your life with your husband(during your time). Just have fun and let it all hang out. If anyone knows of an existing website or forum where families are seeking a co-wife-please contact me at maliurj@yahoo.com. I am a fun-loving person. I smile a lot with genuine intentions. I am an English teacher/Nurse. Jazzakallahu Khairan
November 1st, 2011 em 4:37 PM
At the end one guy says “you could just be married to one wife and have an affair, Qual é o melhor” Many men love that excuse. That is basically just saying that polygamy is a way to legalize having a mistress. That is making second wives and subsequent wives out to be mistresses. So by their logic, a second wife is just a married mistress or legalized mistress. The point is, your husband is still with another woman either way. Wife or mistress, she is still the “other woman”. It doesn’t hurt any less. Actually, a second wife is worse since she is more of a threat to your position. You could be married to your husband for 20 years and this other woman comes along and is all of a sudden equal to you in rights to your husband and everything he owns.
November 1st, 2011 em 4:40 PM
I think this woman is confident her husband loves her so she feels another wife won’t be a threat to her since she would still be the favorite one. There was one second wife in the article who claimed her husband loved the first one more. The lady pushing for polgamy seems she is just looking for a babysitter so she can have more time for her career. I guess if you are a woman in desperate need of financial security, you are forced to resort to playing second fiddle to another woman.
De qualquer maneira, I think this woman is luccky that her husband loves her enough that even with aall her pressure and men’s sexual temptation, he did not take on a second wife.
November 1st, 2011 em 4:40 PM
As a woman though, I would think twice before pushing my husband to marry another b/c it could backfire.
November 1st, 2011 em 4:42 PM
Ana you are right on in bringing up the fact that she hasn’t experienced polygamy yet and might be in for a rude awakening if it acutally happends.
November 2nd, 2011 em 4:48 AM
In Egypt, no one will marry men unless they can prove they can provide well-or at all, anymore. My husband(ugh) was inquiring about the job situation in Egypt and his friend from his old place of employment told him that he recently had to take a 60% pay cut to keep his job-he is a professional in a ‘good’ career, working for a ‘good’ company. Already in Egypt they make a fraction of what anyone here or in the states would make-a few thousand dollars a year vs. nearly 100K a year. Think about all the undereducated and unemployed-there is no unemployment insurance, no fall back except for family. I predict that there will be more polygamy as women will choose to be with men who can provide for them and provide children for them. Egypt is really a mess now, Eu acho que. I guess I’ll be grateful that I am not likely to end up there. It makes the States look not so bad. . .
November 2nd, 2011 em 5:16 PM
This is why when I get married I am going to be very protective of my income. I don’t plan on having a joint account with my husband.If my husband is going to get another wife, he is going to pay for her and if his marrying her is going to make things harder for my children and I, I might as well divorce him and make him pay child support. He is not going to use me to support another woman.
November 2nd, 2011 em 5:46 PM
Maliurj, Como Wa Salaam Alaikum!
I’d suggest you not worry about your husband divorcing you until or unless it happens. As you stated, the pressure is on because he wants you to get him a Green Card. Threatening divorce could be a tactic he’s using. Call his bluff, if you’re willing to stay with him, knowing what his priority is. Are you not bothered that he may only want to be married to you for a Green Card?
Esta é uma casa aberta. Não há necessidade de bater. Apenas venha.
November 2nd, 2011 em 6:24 PM
If a woman is a first wife, and has her documents in order – for instance in the USA she has a legal marriage license – at least she’s looking out for her own best interest, regardless of how one looks at it. In the USA, the second wife that comes along won’t have the rights the first wife has, as only one wife married to a husband can have a legal marriage license. Islamically speaking and in the eyesight of her and her husband she may be a wife. In the eyesight of society, she’s not. We can’t get around the fact that we all live in a society. I like knowing that I will be taken care of if my husband divorces me or dies. I could get the courts to force him to pay for me. She can’t force him to do anything, as she has no legal recourse through the courts. If she does the right thing, Allah provides. Allah provides for all of us.
When it comes to relying on the word of a man/a husband, FORGET ABOUT IT.
Esta é uma casa aberta. Não há necessidade de bater. Apenas venha.
November 2nd, 2011 em 6:25 PM
asalaam alaikum wr wb. i pray everyone is in the best of emaan and health. im a brother on deen, i teach quran and arabic and i love my lord. if theres any sisters looking to be a second wife then pls email me on abu-tawba@hotmail.co.uk im also of a mixed origin and a revert to islaam
November 2nd, 2011 em 8:09 PM
I have some reservations about this article. I don’t think that anyone, male or female, should be pressured into a relationship they don’t want. I don’t think a man should force a polygamist relationship on his wife or girlfriend, nor do I think a woman should try to force her husband to get another wife if he doesn’t want one.
Além disso,, I find the excuse of “If you don’t let your man get another wife, he’ll cheat on you” to be incredibly manipulative (bordering on coercion) and a total lie to boot. Men are not dogs or other wild animals. Eles, like every other human being on this planet, have self restraint. I think the whole idea of “men have to have SO much more sex than women” is a very clever and pervasive lie that men have spread because it gives them an excuse when they CHOOSE not to exercise that self-restraint.
November 2nd, 2011 em 10:17 PM
Well spoken Daree. It is an excuse to allow men to cheat. If a man is a cheater, polygamy won’t stop him, I have seen some examples of that. Cheating is a lack of self-control not about having to stick to one woman. You cannot sleep with every girl you find attractive. Even with polygamy, you are limited to 4, but you will be attracted to more than 4 mulheres. So self-control is what stops you from cheating not polygamy. Actually, there is a study that shows that women who work are just as likely to cheat as men since they are also exposed to the opposite sex instead of being confined to the home. Women enjoy sex too, but is b/c women are more controlled that they don’t cheat as much. Men are usually not refined to the home and are more exposed so they are likely to interact more with others. It is also that in a male-dominated society is looked upon as more acceptable for a man to want more than one woman than a woman to desire more than one man.
That excuse for cheating actually is an insult to Allah’s rule, b/c it makes it seem like it is just an escape for cheating husbands and mistresses. So it is equating a second wife to a mistress, which I am sure many second wives won’t be happy about.
November 2nd, 2011 em 10:24 PM
@ Ana:
Sim, I think any woman who lives in the West should be smart enough to secure herself with a civil marriage in addition to her nikah. You should not take your hubby’s WORD. It is always good in the beginning and he will do whatever you want, but after reality sets in you never know what can happen. The future is unpredictable. You need to secure your position so another woman cannot come and take over your marriage. You don’t know how she will be and some second wives try to get rid of the first wife to be the only one. If he knows that you have a lot of control over his assets, he will be careful and think twice before he decides to divorce you for another.
If my husband is legally tied to me, then I might be more accepting of a 2nd wife since she won’t be a threat to my position and I will have all the rights as his WIFE. It would be hard for him to be unjust to you as you can take him to the courts. As a first wife, what you built with him belongs to you and him, and she has to work on building her home and life with him like you did instead of reaping your benefits. A good way to protect yourself from that betrayal is through a civil union.
Inshallah, it won’t happen, but it is better to be safe than sorry.
November 2nd, 2011 em 11:05 PM
Abu Sumaya, I already married you, only you were Egyptian and born in. I now doubt his eman, he doesn’t teach me Arabic anymore and I find that all of his good intentions in a 2nd marriage were shot down by the reality that his first wife has kids with him and in that way, she controls my marriage and has ruined it, devastated me and has destroyed my very positive and loving feelings towards her. Last night I found myself asking Allah to remove my hateful thoughts of her as I was wishing bad things on her. I repent of it, but polygamy can cause fitnah in life, it can be a huge huge battle, and really, is that what you want for yourself and your first and second? Do you want to subject your second to being secondary? If in reality you know you would choose (and I mean if they gave you an ultimatum to be divorced if you don’t leave the other) one over the other you shouldn’t do it-because the other (whoever)should not be subject to the one you would choose. The only one who should rule your marriage should be Allah, not either wife.
November 3rd, 2011 em 6:26 AM
@Khadijac,
You stated, “If he knows that you have a lot of control over his assets, he will be careful and think twice before he decides to divorce you for another.” Concordo.
I know from my own experience. When Alex first married again, I was extremely bitter and full of hatred towards him. I let him know that it would be all out war, if we got a divorce and I would take him for everything he had. He didn’t doubt it, as he saw the letter from the divorce attorney that I consulted with. He knew he’d have a lot to lose with regard his entire livelihood, including his job.
Of course if a husband isn’t in love with or loves his first wife, it wouldn’t matter what he’d lose, resulting from a divorce. He’d divorce to be with the one and only that he truly loves. If a husband flat out divorces a woman for another, one knows the love he had for his wife dissipated and it was time for him to completely move on.
No meu caso, I have no sympathy or compassion for Alex’s second wife. She deserves the status she has – too bad! For other second wives out there that I read about, it entirely different. Sim, I feel for them.
You stated, “A good way to protect yourself from that betrayal is through a civil union.” WELL SAID!
Esta é uma casa aberta. Não há necessidade de bater. Apenas venha.
November 3rd, 2011 em 6:45 AM
A man should not have to exercise self-restraint, if he wants more than one wife and Allah has given him the means to have more than one. Allah is boss, not wife/wives. Allah says polygamy is OK then it’s OK.
Part of the problem is the WEAK MEN out there that let women rule them and tell them what to do that is contrary to what Allah says. Allah didn’t tell woman she can tell her husband what to do and not do. Allah tells him what to do and not do.
I think there is validity to the claim many men have high sexual desire and a need for more than one woman, otherwise why would Allah say polygamy is permissible for them? Allah gave them the ability to be sexual with more than one woman. He created them and put that desire and drive in them.
Esta é uma casa aberta. Não há necessidade de bater. Apenas venha.
November 3rd, 2011 em 6:53 AM
I would not trade my license for all the tea in China. Também, I make sure to have everything in writing. Não me interpretem mal, I don’t want anything there is in Pakistan and I certainly won’t be looking for my share there. On the same note, I expect her not to come sniffing over here. In that same note, people go nuts when it comes to money, and I leave my future/fate/whatever you want to call it, up to no chance.
Not only am I the one with the license, but everything that is owned in the country belongs to me. I have the most darling husband who also believes I should always be protected too. The loans go in his name and the deeds in mine. The company stock is also in my name, same with the house, apartment, cars, etc… It’s not that I expect a handout or a free lunch, but this is the result of what we built upon and my very own hard work as well.
As an attorney, I’ve just seen too many horror stories and learned from them.
November 3rd, 2011 em 6:55 AM
@ Nura,
Has he yet defined what your marriage will be like and what you are entitled to?
November 3rd, 2011 em 7:01 AM
@Jenny,
Your post always bring a smile to my face and some laughter. It’s a nice way for me to begin the day.
You are a unique piece of work
On that note, I’m going to climb back in bed for some more shut eye (7:00 a.m. )
Esta é uma casa aberta. Não há necessidade de bater. Apenas venha.
November 3rd, 2011 em 11:58 AM
The question is whether wanting more sex in and of itself is sufficient to engage in polygamy. The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) didn’t marry his wives for sex. When a man marries the woman for sex only, most likely he won’t give her the rights to time and maintenance that she is entitled to. He simply tries to satisfy his own desires.
I agree with Daree and khadijac that polygamy won’t prevent a man from “cheating”. We’ve heard a number of stories with regard that on the blog. When Alex advised his mother he was going to marry “C” to help her. She asked why he couldn’t just help her without marrying her. He replied, he couldn’t be around her without being married to her. He meant he desired her and wanted to have sex with her.
Polygamy is good for some men and bad for others. For the man that engages in it simply for sex, it could be a means that will lead him to the Hellfire.
Esta é uma casa aberta. Não há necessidade de bater. Apenas venha.
November 3rd, 2011 em 12:47 PM
ASA,
Nura,
Polygamy cannot create “fitnah” in anyone’s life; polygamy is an adjective describing a particular relationship. Individuals create “finah” who adhere to Satan and his Votaries (The Believers Know Who they Are) and turn away from Allah. Polygamy has no power. There is no power and there is no might except in Allah.
Ali
November 3rd, 2011 em 3:10 PM
@ Ana:
Yeah you are right. If a man is willing to divorce you despite a civil union and is willing to lose a lot of what he has for another woman, than it is better for the first wife to proceed on with that divorce. Obviously, since he is willing to lose you and break up any family you have (if there are kids) for her than she is obviously much more important to him than you and his love for you has dissipated. I would rather let him be happy with the woman who he prefers to be with instead of having to share him with her and being consumed with feelings of jealousy and inadequacy. I don’t want to be in a marriage where my husband is in love with another woman. She can have him. If your husband wants a second wife and you want a divorce b/c of that and he grants it to you, then leave b/c obviously he is showing you how much important she is to him. He is willing to throw away your marriage for her. Why be in a marriage like that? You are not gonna be happy either way. If you stay married to him, you know she will be the favorite and his preference for her will affect your marriage since he will make a lot of decision in her favor. I don’t want another woman to have so much control over my life. I don’t want a marriage where another woman comes first. Some men also give a lot of control to the beloved wife over the marriage.
I will not use the kids to emotionally black mail him. I would just try to keep a civil relationship with him for the sake of the kids and move on.
November 3rd, 2011 em 3:15 PM
@ Ana: Alex’s mother made a good point in that he could have helped her without marrying her.
That is why I believe no matter what excuses men give, it all coms down to desire and sex. Why can’t you help a widow without marrying her? If a man cares so much about a woman’s problems and is willing to take on her burden he must have some kind of desire for her. That is why it is difficult for me to accept polygamy. No matter what reason a man gives for marrying another, he has fallen in love with her point blank. Period. Otherwise, why would he care so much? There are many people with problems in the world.
November 4th, 2011 em 11:11 AM
@ ana
As you know, I don’t come to the idea of being pro-polygamous via religion, so we’re not going to agree about some things there. I understand that you believe that, to some degree, polygamy is allowed because men have a higher sex drive. The problem I see with that belief is that, with humanity, there is no one-size-fits-all (why I have trouble with the notion that Allah’s (or any higher powers’) teachings are supposed to be for all men and all times)
Many (maybe even most) men have a higher sexual drive than many (or most) mulheres, that’s true. Contudo, there are some women with higher sex drives than their husbands/ boyfriends. If Islamic polygamy is allowed because of that difference of sex drives and Islam’s teachings truly are for all men (and women), then it would take highly sexual women into consideration and allow polygamy for both genders.
As for self-restraint- everyone needs to practice that. Otherwise, you’re just abdicating responsibility for everything you do to your higher power. I have the means to buy tons and tons of food but if I ate it all in one setting just because I wanted to, I’d be a pig. I don’t think “God/Allah/YHWH made me do it” is any better an excuse than “The devil made me do it”. People should not only practice self-respect, but also own up to their choices and not lay the blame somewhere else. Claro, I do realize that because of ideological differences, we’re unlikely to agree on that point.
November 4th, 2011 em 2:05 PM
Daree,
Sim, you are correct: “because of ideological differences, we’re unlikely to agree on that point.” – as well as many other points. Allah determined who will be Muslim. Not everyone will be.
I simply don’t understand why some come here to say our beliefs are wrong. We know our belief’s are right and no one will tell us differently. Or should I say, no one will tell me differently. Assim, if you or anyone expect me to agree with you and begin questioning my belief. Não vai acontecer.
Esta é uma casa aberta. Não há necessidade de bater. Apenas venha.
November 4th, 2011 em 2:24 PM
@Khadijac,
I think we need to understand that it’s OK for the man to marry, love another woman and have sex with her while married to another. It’s a good thing. BUT, he should love Allah and seek to engage in polygamy to seek the pleasure of Allah. He should be in it to help bring his families closer to Allah with the goal of entering Paradise/Jannah. It’s the only way it would work. They have to all be on the same page.
In order for it to happen properly, all parties must know what Allah says in the Quran; what our purpose for being on this earth is (to serve Allah and Allah alone. To worship HIM). We must accept and respect that Allah says WE CANNOT obtain righteousness until we want for our brother (sister-in-faith) what we want for ourselves and we must give freely of that which we love. We must know that Islam is all about sharing, giving and taking care of one another. There is no room for selfishness in Islam. Unless the parties involved in polygamy all have a clear and precise understanding about Islam and what it is all about, polygamy will not work for them. It’s the bottom line.
If a man wants another wife to get some extra butt, não, it’s not going to work. If a man is weak and can’t stand up to his first wife that wants him to serve and obey her, then it’s not going to work. If a Muslim man marries a non-Muslim woman, then it’s not going to work. (We have gone over and over and over again what a “people of the book” é. They don’t exist in 2011. Every “people of the book” is dead. They lived during the Prophet time or before. Everyone in 2011 is expected to follow the Quran and except the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). The Quran is for all men for all times. It is SIMPLE, but only a few wilL understand.
Esta é uma casa aberta. Não há necessidade de bater. Apenas venha.
November 4th, 2011 em 3:23 PM
“If a man wants another wife to get some extra butt,”
Thanks Ana. That is the first laugh I’ve had all day, and I really needed it!
abraços,
j
November 4th, 2011 em 3:31 PM
Judith,
Esta é uma casa aberta. Não há necessidade de bater. Apenas venha.
November 4th, 2011 em 4:18 PM
Ana salam, Allah tells us don’t argue with the arragant it will only lead to kuffer , you have ur religion and I have mine. Don’t even bother Ana, I wouldn’t even answer her, if she wants to know about Islam then that’s fine otherwise don’t answer her. In my oppioun Ana I honestly think u should have made this site only for Muslims, it’s not fair or right how our beautiful religion and our beloved Allah swt gets mocked from the none belivers. I really hate that Ana and it makes me sad. Sure there’s other sites out there to accomadate their needs and religion. Much salams
November 4th, 2011 em 4:35 PM
De,
Como Wa Salaam Alaikum!!!
You’re right about arguing with those that don’t know our religion, and really don’t want to know, but only want to argue and debate it. Nothing any of us say to them will matter, as they will believe what they believe and we will continue to believe what we believe. I’ve been trying to say that to them without being rude and telling them to get the F&^K out – excuse my French. It is arrogance that make them come here and talk to us the way they do, like they know and we don’t. If they only know how clueless they are.
The site is open to all to discuss polygamy and all beliefs whatever they may be, associated with polygamy. It’s not for those that think they are superior and can come here to force their beliefs on us or anyone else. We as Muslim discuss our beliefs here, but don’t try to force it on anyone else.
Thanks for inputting, De. I hope you’re feeling better. The 14th will be here before you know it. Wait and see what he is like when he returns. If he’s going to stay with her and still ask you to give up what you have for her, maybe you should kick him to the curb (throw him out). Leave him and let him divorce you, if he wants a divorce. You’re sharing your husband with her. If that not good enough, then friggin tough. What is she sharing with you? What does “C” share with me? They are just blood suckers, out to take.
Esta é uma casa aberta. Não há necessidade de bater. Apenas venha.
November 4th, 2011 em 8:46 PM
@ Ana:
I understand Allah has given men the right of polygamy, but is it a force for a wife to stay if she cannot bear it? I will not stop him from getting 2, 3, ou 4 if he wants to, but I don’t have to be one of them. I don’t think I am made for polygamy.
November 4th, 2011 em 8:51 PM
Actually, I don’t think I could be a good wife to my husband if that were to happen b/c I would always feel angry at him. I cannot be intimate with him b/c it would disgust me that he does the same with another woman and exchanging bodily fluids with her. Who knows all the things he does with her. I cannot take it.
You said it is okay for a man to love another woman while married to another and have sex with her, children with her, spend on her etc…I PERSONALLY cannot take it. I am not denying the rule of Allah, but it is not fard. The prophet allowed women to divorce their husbands for less serious things than polygamy so I don’t think I would be sinning if I divorced my husband over the fact that I can’t stand the fact that he is in love with another. ANd let’s be real, the love will NOT be equal. He might not even love one of them at all anymore. If my husband has gone so far as to fall in love with another woman to the point of marrying her and commiting to sharing his life with her, she can have him. I wouldn’t want him anymore.
November 4th, 2011 em 9:27 PM
@Khadijac, No! No woman is forced to stay in polygamy, if she doesn’t want to, and can’t bear it. There is no compulsion in Islam. Divorce is permissible and available to woman as it is for men.
What I’ve learned from others on this blog and know of myself is that we stay in polygamy because we love our husbands. We have had good lives with them (not perfect, but good). Most have children by them. If it wasn’t for our husbands taking other wives we probably would never have seriously considered divorcing them. It is only because they’ve married another that we consider divorcing them.
Assim, we do some introspection and perhaps others help us see clearly, bem, and we realize that we don’t want our husbands to do what Allah has given them permission to do. Agora, sim, there are men that polygamy is not appropriate for, but they engage in it anyway. Allah did not tell woman that she can lord over her husband and determine whether he can take another wife or not. He will be accountable to Allah for engaging in polygamy, for the reasons why and how he does it.
In taking a good look at ourselves, we begin to see what’s ugly within us. It certainly begins to surface when our husbands marry another. For some women, just the thought of her husband marrying another or for some single women the thought of polygamy invokes negative emotions, which should let us see we need some mega work on ourselves. There is a lot of ugliness within us and that ugliness is the disease that is within our hearts. E, as I stated before, when we leave a marriage because we don’t like polygamy, we take that ugliness with us.
I think many, many overlook the most important things that we’ve discussed and that is what is stated in the Quran: our purpose in life; how we’re supposed to live and what we should want for our fellow brothers and sisters -in -faith. Some are so blinded by their own desires that they skip over the most important points and dwell on their own needs. In Islam, it’s important to think more of others and their needs than ourselves. If we can’t grasp that concept, we can’t be receptive to polygamy.
Esta é uma casa aberta. Não há necessidade de bater. Apenas venha.
November 4th, 2011 em 9:53 PM
@Khadijac, I think many of us in polygamy have thoughts and feelings that you mentioned. We all get angry with are husbands. We become bitter towards them. We freak out on them. Some even get physically violent towards them. We act out – go a bit crazy or whatever. But eventually we get over it. It takes time. It take a lot of praying and imploring Allah’s help. It take a lot of zikring; a lot of seeking refuge in Allah from Satan’s whispers; a lot of remembering Allah and reading Quran etc. Adversity and hardship is supposed to bring us closer to Allah. That’s what polygamy does for most. It may not happen at the onset of the husband becoming polygamous, but if the woman stays in it and does all that I mention above, she will grow nearer to Allah. In growing nearer to Allah, we have a chance of entering Paradise.
I too thought I wouldn’t be able to have sexual relations with my husband, knowing he was doing “C”, especially knowing the type of woman she is. I feared contracting a disease from Alex, as I know she knows nothing about modesty and chastity. I know this based on my conversation with her via text, from messages between Alex and her that were on his phone, and from her nasty pics on his phone. All of that is enough to cause one to become ALARMED. Agora, I don’t focus on it anymore. I believe Allah will protect me and if He allows me to contract something from her and him, then I believe Allah will see me through it and let me cope. My sex life with Alex is better than it has ever been and it got better only after he married “C”. By him marrying “C”, it allowed me to take a close look at my marriage and allowed me to know my husband for the first time.
With regard to him loving another. No woman wants her husband to love another woman and especially love her more. Once you grow nearer to Allah and knows Allah decreed polygamy for you (if you’re in it) and you know Allah knows what’s best for you, you stop caring about him loving another or who the favorite is. I could care less now, whether Alex loves “C” more than me, nesta fase da minha vida. What matters is whether Allah loves me and I love Allah.
Alex is a good husband to me. He shows me mega love. He’s attentive to me. He takes care of me. He pays all the necessary bills. He cooks for me. He takes me on two nice, luxury vacations a year. He lets me spend as much money on vacation as I want with room service or whatever… He’s a good man. Certo, he has some serious issues with his Islam. He lives with non-Muslims (who have an entirely different way of life than Muslims) when not with me. He’s going to be with them for Christmas, hanging out and celebrating with them. That’s serious. Will I give all that I have in him up, simply because I have to share him with her. NO!
Esta é uma casa aberta. Não há necessidade de bater. Apenas venha.
November 5th, 2011 em 6:30 AM
@ Ana,
You are very blessed with Alex. I thought about what you said about his having issues with Islam. While that may be so, he has a strong sense of it in his heart by the way he treats everyone in his life. My question is this: is it better to have a husband with the love of Allah/G-d in his heart and living beautifully or someone who lives a religion (and we do have plenty of examples), but can rationalize every action away and doesn’t have it in his heart?
While polygamy may be a very big rock to swallow, we both know there are much worse tests we can have. I think what is beautiful in your life is there is no “train of wreckage” in your life because Alex gives everyone himself and his love.
From living on both sides of the coin (I was engaged to an Orthodox rabbi before I met my husband). I would have married the religious person that didn’t have it in his heart. That train of wreckage would have steamrolled me. The sad thing is he would have quoted his relgious texts for being “justa e equitativa” with me and felt he was not doing anything wrong. I am so thankful I married the right man. He isn’t perfect, and I don’t want him to be, but he is perfect for me.
November 5th, 2011 em 7:36 AM
@Jenny,
I am grateful for Alex. I thank Allah for him. He’s a good person, like you stated, in that he treats EVERYONE nicely and good. He especially is fair and just with “C” e me. One reason I won’t divorce him is because I don’t want to chance having a husband that is consumed with all the do’s and don’t of Islam based on what he’s learned about how our Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) lived and don’t have a clue about what Allah states in the Quran. I don’t want someone walking about with a beard, wearing the clothes (a thobe), sprouting out the Arabic words, looking the part, but not know what true belief is. I don’t want the man that is all about show and tell and nothing more – so shallow. Para mim, righteousness that does not make.
At the same time, I am concerned about Alex, as in Islam we can’t straddle the fence. We can’t live two worlds (life of a Muslim and a life of a non-Muslim with conflicting beliefs) and expect to enter Paradise. I’m concerned for myself for loving a person like that. I’m grateful that polygamy separates him and me, so I’m influenced less by him. I want the best in this world and the best in the Hereafter. I can have the best in this world with Alex. I just can’t let that part of my life consume me, which if I were to be extra close to Alex and love him deeply would happen and I could go astray. Islam is most important to me, more important to me than Alex.
I like what you said Jenny. You stated: “I am so thankful I married the right man. He isn’t perfect, and I don’t want him to be, but he is perfect for me.” God choose are mates for us. I’m glad you both are so happy. I sense your happiness through your word
It’s beautiful.
Esta é uma casa aberta. Não há necessidade de bater. Apenas venha.
November 5th, 2011 em 7:04 PM
@ ana
I am in no way here to tell you that your beliefs are wrong. I think you are being a little too sensitive about that issue (but I do understand that trolls who come here just to bash Islam are a re-occurring problem, so I should probably be more understanding)
As I understand it (and please, please correct me if I’m wrong!), this is a website about polygamy, not Islam. I’ve even seen threads that have gone off-topic, into discussing Islamic issues that don’t have anything to do with polygamy, where you have personally put the kibosh on that train of discussion.
I am not here to tell you that your pro-polygamy belief is wrong, as I’m pro-polygamy as well (though I believe in polygyny as well as polyandry) I am also not here to tell you that your belief in Islam is incorrect, porque 1) that’s a very intolerant thing to do and I’m not intolerant, 2) I think everyone should be free to pursue the religion of their own choosing, e 3) this isn’t a website about Islam. Contudo, I think it would be disingenuous to not acknowledge that the we’re going to have a difference of opinion about things within the pro-polygamy belief system (such as whether it’s okay for a person to take another spouse just because he or she wants to and happens to be financially able to support another person at the moment) because of our differences in ideology, primarily differences in religion (or lack thereof)
You say this is an open house but it is entirely within your right to restrict what you want to see in these threads. If you don’t want people (or just me) to discuss their opinions on things that may contradict mainstream Islam’s opinions on those issues, please let me know and I’ll go back to just lurking (which I may do anyway, since I seem to have stirred up far more hard feelings than I ever had any intention of doing)
November 5th, 2011 em 7:54 PM
Daree,
Thank you for expressing your thoughts about this website and for clarifying your position with regard your posts. I’m glad you are still with us
You are correct that this is a polygamy site in general. Sometime I do become overly sensitive when I get the feeling some come to the site pitying Muslims females for their conditions and circumstances. I get the impression that some view women in Islam as being like the women the Taliban oppressed and we can’t think and reason enough know that we do not have to accept our situations. That is what annoys me. The women on the blog here, the few that have spoken, are very bright, intelligent women that know Islam and know their rights. They are strong in their belief, which is why they try to remain in polygamy although there is no compulsion for them to do so. Assim, perhaps I read more into some posts from non-Muslims than is there. I have to work on that.
Please feel free to continue your discussion. I just wish other non-Muslims would come forward and speak with you and others too about their pro-stance on polygamy. Sometimes it is not good to have conversations that raise doubt and a Muslim has to come forth to defend her/his position. It opens the door for doubt. Allah says when we doubt, He places doubt upon doubt and then we go astray. A Muslim that is strong in her/his belief need not be subjected to that. Our objective is to come together and help make one another strong – para “join together in the mutual teaching of Truth, Patience and Constancy.”
Esta é uma casa aberta. Não há necessidade de bater. Apenas venha.
November 5th, 2011 em 10:48 PM
@ ana
Thank you for still being welcoming to me.
Understanding that Islam teaches that doubts should be avoided does help me understand why you reacted the way you did to my comments. I was raised Christian (though I’ve been an atheist for a long time now) e, amongst my religious group, doubt wasn’t something that had to be avoided. I grew up being taught that experiencing temptation and doubt, then overcoming it, was almost a necessity to prove your faith (it’s been awhile but, if I’m remembering correctly, the line of thought was that faith cannot be real faith unless it’s been tested and withstood doubt and temptation)
Thank you for teaching me something new about Islam today. I will definitely go forward while keeping those teachings in mind and try to be more sensitive in the future.