Shirk and Secret Wives

polygamy 411

Are you a “secret wife?”  If you are, why? Does a man commit shirk when he marries a woman and make her a secret wife?  My understanding of shirk, for those unfamiliar with the term, is associating any created thing or human being with the Creator – Allah. Shirk is unforgivable!

“Secret wives” is undoubtedly an interesting topic. If polygamy in Islam is permissible, why make a wife a secret?  In earlier posts we briefly touched upon reasons for the secrecy. The reasons were: The husband’s parent(s) didn’t approve of the wife that the husband selected or the husband’s first wife didn’t approve of polygamy, and wouldn’t accept it.  The husband, therefore, makes the other wife a secret.

Firstly, we must assume that the husband accepts polygamy as being permissible in Islam, which is why he engaged in polygamy in the first place.  If a man has acted upon his right to engage in polygamy, then why does he let the fear of repercussions from his parent(s) or his recognized wife prevent him from dealing with his other wife in a fair and just way? Why must she be a secret? Why not let her be recognized, be rightfully known, and be respected as a wife?

In secret wives situations, it seems the husband fears man (human being), in this case meaning his parent(s) or the recognized wife more than he fears his Creator. Does the husband place his recognized wife and/or his parent(s) above or equal with his Creator when he concerns himself with pleasing his recognized wife and parent(s) while depriving his secret wife of her right to be known and respected as a wife in Islam? The husband that has a secret wife should ask himself, “Who do I serve?”

Who does he fear?  Does he fear his parent(s), his recognized wife or his Creator?  It appears the husband fears his parent(s) or recognized wife more than he fears his Creator when he has a secret wife. In that case, does the husband commit the unforgivable sin of shirk?

I think it becomes a tricky situation when the man makes unlawful what his Creator has made lawful for him. The man who hides his wife, in essence, has made her unlawful at the same time as making her lawful.  He married her in a polygamous situation; however, at the same time, hides her out of fear of others when we should fear no one except Allah.

This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

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319 Comments

  • Ana

    May 6, 2011

    OK, everyone, we have 319 comments on this post – an overwhelming number. So, for the time being, until I can write another post, I kindly ask you to continue the discussions over at “Pride, Arrogance and Polygamy” http://polygamy411.com/pride-arrogance-and-polygamy/
    or any other post of your choosing. Please post any new comments there. I will close this post at this time.

    Thank you all again for your input and for sharing with us all your life experiences, thoughts, views, feelings, hopes and dreams etc. I pray Allah will guide us all closer to Him.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    May 6, 2011

    Okhti K (khadijah), you could not have said anything better than what you said – you’ll leave it all in Allah’s hands. Once we get so fed up and tired that we know we need to leave everything there (in Allah’s hands) things turn around and gets better and easier for us. So, it’s a good sign for you.

    I, too, intend to do just that. Allah knows best how long Alex and I will remain together. It may be only a matter of time before he reaps what he sowed. We all will. Allah may have someone better out there for me, in time, someone who wants to serve and worship Allah vehemently – not superficially, not someone that goes through the motions, but someone who truly have a clue and want to be my garment (garment of righteousness).

    My wakeel asked why I waste my time thinking about those two. They are so not worth it. They can’t bring any good or harm to me. Neither help me get closer to Allah. Alex only takes me further away. I’m going to be patient and see what Allah’s plan is for me.

    Okhti K, it seems you critiqued your situation very well. There’s nothing for you to come back to the States for, at this time. Being amongst those that you mentioned could only lead you astray. You have co-wives that are Muslim (no question about it). They have accepted polygamy in that they each recognize one another as wives; although, there are still some dislike for it or each other to a degree. Allah could put love and affection in your, and in each one of their heart for one another. Being nearer to them is a start. Just be patient, if the progress is slow. You could have a wonderful family with them, in due time, if it pleases Allah.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • khadijah z

    May 6, 2011

    Iv decided on a few things that i had made a decision on before but im now changing and i no many of you will maybe not understand why i have decided to make changes in my life in the manner i have chosen. crying
    1. ill go threw with getting my passport updated if they allow me to do so, if not it dosnt matter any more, as at my age and with how my family acts like I MYSELF OWE them a visit including my children Yet each year that passes, they use there FUNDS to take vacations to expensive them parks, beaches trips, Christmas, birthdays with thousands in gifts and party’s to see each other but not once in 6yrs has any of them ever said well how about if we together pay for a trip for you to come and your husband get the return ticket back. sad
    In this expecting me to go on my own funds to visit all of them who live in several different states and different time zones, with neighbors who will verbally assault and harass my mom! And her fould way of Quran and my cover sad
    Or for me to remove my cover or a daughter who reverted then went back to live in her kufir life with a married non Muslim man, dogs in the homes, homosexual family members id have to stay with, and non of them could i stay in there homes in these aspects or uncover when id visit them so would have to pay for hotel bills. Its not enough that my husband with out funds got one of his wives brother to get me a Magic Jack on a trip to NY, so i had contact to my family, and pays DSL every month also for the same reason, only to find they either have a wild hair up there ass’s and either dont answer, or tell me there to busy to talk. Have even gone so far as to deny me access to my grand children via FB bcos of my postings of the gov, or religious facts that are not of there own moderate beliefs of homosexuality, adultery, drugs, alcohol, halal foods or there lack of knowledge Christianity which wearing a cross or yelling hallelujah in church on easter is not a religion nor is a ham or a turkey or Christmas tree which all are haram in there own facts not to mention by Allah!
    So ill not go to visit them but offer them to save money to get there own passports and help pay for tickets to visit me.

    @ I have decided that it would be better to move closer to the other wives for several reasons.
    Tutor the kids and see them more often, i dont give a shit any more to be closer to the bus for Sherif to not have to walk, i dont give a dam now of who is watching my home bcos he has gotten quite crappy of an attitude since he finished this job and has a crappy way of stating his answer to the 15mins of which he spent on the ph and talking only of the 2nd and i got 3 min to saying next time he wont even bother to come and see me before he leaves! Alhumduillah to be the grateful charity among all his younger more beautiful wives.
    So now ill leave it all in Allah’s hands not asking for any thing of anyone to only pray and wait for Allah to present me with it or not.

    Life is some thing we all expect certain things and people to be a certain way towards us in our treatment and love of them, but they are not. They are in fact the essence of the opposite of how we raised them, and even to ever accept us for our good deeds, our weaknesses or even the love and unselfish way we took care of them till we had nothing else to give. Im tired now and no longer have the will to fight even for myself A human being and can only take so much in there lives till they just bend, break and let all the foot prints entail on there backs till the day of judgement crying

  • Lynn

    May 5, 2011

    The schedule kinda fixed Ana. so far he hasn’t change much to accommodate anyone me or Ms.P. And oops! sorry it’s not exactly every 17 days, between 15-18 days depending on his off days as he is on shift work.

    i am worried he will end up spending the big muslim holidays like Eid ul-Fitr and Eid al-Adha there with her – i will be so hurt then, Ana.

  • cindy

    May 5, 2011

    Asa ana,
    I can see and read how troubling the schedual gets for the women in a polygamous marriage. I think that would be a much bigger issue for me if my mz.p ever lived in the same country as me. As it stands now if/when they do marry he will spend 2 months with her every four months….so 4 months a year total, he of course can do 6 and 6 but since he is so so not financially stable enough not to work for 6 months a year I really do not think it would happen that way.

  • Ana

    May 5, 2011

    Lynn, does he change the schedule for holidays and special occasions or just keep the schedule as is, seeing her every 17th day for 4 days and 3 nights, regardless of where it falls?

    Do you know why he does every 17th day?

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    May 5, 2011

    Cindy, what you suggested makes sense, but it won’t work with her and me. To do it that way would be inviting chaos, which we had before we got the schedule that we have now. Alex, too, had asked me recently if I could think of a better way to do the schedule.

    If we begin picking, choosing and switching days, he, she and I would go crazy. She’d try to work the schedule around her work schedule and then we’d get all confused about who is owed a day and who stole a day and so forth and so on. It was the problem we had with the schedule before. Plus, I refuse to accommodate her. I don’t exist to her – remember?

    The bottom line is marriage on a schedule sucks – excuse my French. One day you may be in this predicament, Cindy, and you will experience firsthand how frustrating and trying it is. Just count your blessings that you are not in it now. Well, you did get a taste of it recently thinking

    I guess I was just venting about how much marriage on a schedule is hell and I don’t like it. It’s not Alex’s fault. I don’t think he manipulated the schedule. It’s just goes back to – here’s a man with a busy work schedule (he has an important position), he attends seminars, conferences, workshops etc. and goes on business trips, and then he goes and gets himself another wife. We don’t only have to share him, but have limited time with him on top of it because of all else going on in his life.

    It’s best that we stick to the schedule as is or we’d be right back where we were until my wakeel stepped in. He helped us find a workable schedule. Before that, we were all going to snap, crackle and pop. In fact, the schedule that we have works less well for her, as it’s structured, and can’t be changed to accommodate her. I’d rather suffer than make life easier for her.

    I know you’re probably thinking it all sounds so foolish, Cindy. When I think about it while in a calmer frame of mind, it seems that way to me too sad

    It was very sweet of you to try to find a resolution, Cindy. Thank you!

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Lynn

    May 5, 2011

    The first few months when he started it was 4days3nights per month then he realized he was being cruel to her he changed it to max. 4days3nights every 17days. It doesn’t matter whether there is any special day or holiday the schedule will roll on and it’s up to him only I have no say.

    I don’t think I can handle it if he’s gonna change it to suit her needs after she gives birth but I choose not to think and take one thing at a time. He said he would not change much as he has “principles” and she can’t influence him. Let’s see okay will keep you ladies updated 

    He had terrible migrain he seems troubled but when asked he blamed it on a colleague at his workplace. Hope it wasn’t her whom had provoked him. He’s able to maintain his coolness.

    Life is like a roller coaster ride for us. This morning the alar
    “only girl in the world” by Rihanna woke me up from my beautiful sleep. That must have “woke” him up too. I am no longer the only girl he loves in the world. I miss the old times.

  • Cindy

    May 5, 2011

    Asa Ana,
    Could/would you be willing to give up the rest of monday to her so that you can then pick/choose your make up day or weekend?

  • Ana

    May 5, 2011

    Okhti K (Khadijah), to those listening and not in polygamy our arguments about timing and schedules may seem trivial. The truth is the situations are real, serious to us, and matters much.

    I got into a spat with Alex this morning before he left for work. He advised me that what is happening at work will cause him to be away overnight this month. He showed me memos and documents from work to confirm what was going on. He is already scheduled to be away for three nights on business this month, but now to add an extra night will screw up the entire schedule for this month, which he gave me in March. I was to have the Sunday evening before Memorial Day and Memorial Day with him. It was bad enough that he was going to come to me after being with her Sunday Morning and early afternoon. Now, the schedule will be changed so I won’t get Sunday night, but will get Monday (Memorial Day) evening, after he leaves her sloppy a$$. What good is Memorial Day evening when he comes to me to prepare to go back to work after being with her Friday, Saturday, Sunday and 1/2 of Memorial Day Monday. I even said to him,” So now you’re going to drag your a$$ back to me Monday evening, so you could get ready to go back to work.”

    There is no happy medium when in polygamy. I don’t know what she’s saying because he doesn’t tell me and I don’t ask. With her high school type job, I assume she’s working some of the weekend, unless she got that weekend off.

    I emailed him and advised him that this is bulls!t. I wanted a husband that I could be with, which is why I married him and not your typical Muslim that would engage in polygamy.

    The thing is, the only way we will find happiness is if we truly believe and accept whatever befalls us with enthusiasm. That is one difficult road to travel. I want to do it, but I keep wavering. I keep flip flopping back and forth between truth and falsehood – falsehood is that Alex got me into this and blaming him, instead of accepting my lot in life and dealing with it appropriately – the way Allah tells us to do things in the Quran. It’s the big battle – the battle with self – our internal jihad.

    “Allah is the Hand behind all things. What appears to be controlled and initiated by others, including the self, is the Will and Command of Allah.”

    It’s from the book: “Self Knowledge and Spiritual Yearning” by Abdul-fattah R. Hamid. The book is out of print. Years ago, I found it and paid the asking price, which was several times more than the original price. It’s a very good book.

    So, Okhti K, many of us are undergoing similar trials like those you are undergoing, as you can see sad It doesn’t feel good.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • khadijah z

    May 5, 2011

    Asalaam Alaykum Okhti’s pray your all well and ready for Jummah.
    @ Ana okhti i dont want to say happy that they are suffering also but what i dont like is the husband pretending that the other wives are perfect and your the bad one! Having problems doing wrong things or saying bad things and they are not…..

    ]Last night i cornered Sherif asking him questions cos i was already not happy in the fact he went home to the 3rd the day before at 5 but came home to me at 10 last night sad he started with the ooo it is the same for all i am out all day have things to do….i said yes i see this on everyones day except her’s!! Of course is all in my mind… so that got me fired up and i blurted out yeah like when you came home for 5 days last month and came to see me the night before you left was here for all of 15 min of which you spent more then spent 10min on the phone and 3 talking about your threats of divorce to the 2nd and left saying nothing other then ok im going now by sad I told him straight up his only thoughts is as usual on the youngest of his wives and im not the only one seeing or stating so sad

  • Ana

    May 5, 2011

    Cindy, I think it’s difficult to obtain a balance. I’m more of a pessimist, but I’ve gotten so much better since becoming Muslim. What’s a problem for me is that I tend to see both sides easily when it comes to any given situation. It gets me in a jam sometimes, especially when it comes to making a decision. I easily flip flop and waiver between the two sides.

    We just have to get in the habit of seeing things the way Allah tells us to in the Quran. Then we can’t go wrong. I’m battling all the time just with the couple people I communicate with almost daily – in particular Alex, and one of my sisters that I speak with regularly on the phone. She calls me daily. I don’t want to hurt her feelings and stop communicating with her, but at the same time I’m ruining my soul by talking with her. She’s not Muslim and anything that comes out of her mouth is not Islam and if it’s not Islam, it’s untruth or part truth and falsehood and when you mix the too, it’s all falsehood. So, I find myself in a bind. Alex means well, but he comes to me with some of the same because he has no deep understanding of Islam; most of his knowledge is superficial. What am I to do? It’s a rhetorical question.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Jenny

    May 5, 2011

    Well, Hubby just came home for a minute. He walked in and gave me a big hug and kiss and apologized for yesterday. He will do everything I ask as I am the boss! I am so glad he finally realized that! Whew!

    I know that liver biopsy isn’t going to be pleasant, and I’m not telling him that, but I will make sure to speak to the doctor alone for a sec to make sure they sedate him good. And he may lose that black curly hair I love so much due to the interferon treatment that will be started, but it will grow back and I’ll have my husband around healthy! I hope our babies have his curly hair! happy

    Yes, Nura, Hubs is diabetic. I am too. I take three insulin shots a day. We do okay, Alhumdililah, no problems from it. Actually, if you want to know the truth, everyone in my family is diabetic (except my kids). I make sure to take care of him well and there is nothing I cook he can’t eat. The carrot cake he loves so dearly, (I gave the recipe), but I make it entirely without sugar or any fats. You would never know this is a house of diabetics.

    I know hubs is helpless without me. I literally do everything for him, and I love doing it too. The flip side of that coin is I am just as helpless without him! He does everything for me too! We literally fuss over each other, but I am the dominate one in our marriage. It’s no secret. My husband is very laid back and peaceful, where I am the opposite. I could not imagine my life without him.

    Oh, Nura, you bet your a$$ he monitors his sugar. I do it for him. happy I have to do mine four times a day, and I know at least two of those sticks, he’s home. happy I am right on top of that!

  • cindy

    May 5, 2011

    ASA LADIES, I think that my biggest problem is that
    I prefer to see the good in people.

  • Cindy

    May 5, 2011

    Asa Ladies…..No I did not tell you to shut up LOL! I respect everyone’s opinion or why else would I post?? Ana you have been through hell and high water with your situation and have thankfully for all of our (sanity) decided to take us along for the ride. Jenny is in a distictly different type of poygamous marriage which also gives her a different insight into things….Thank you Nura for your insight

  • Nura

    May 5, 2011

    Ana, that butcher and his wife were blessed with a long standing love and respect for each other. When we die, no one wants anyone to mourn forever, but to know that we are missed, we are mourned. . .what a blessing that marriage was to them both. Inshaa Allah we will be mourned appropriately by people who love us, but know that we are under the mercy of Allah, and will, inshaa Allah be together again.

    My husband was so sweet the other day. We have been paying attention to my bruises as they fade. My husband looked me deep in the eyes last night, and he smiled his wonderful warm smile and I was expecting something really romantic and deep. . . and he said-if I didn’t know you had been hurt, I wouldn’t even see the tiny bruise that is left on your face- hmmm. happy

    Prayer time. It is thursday and so he works a half day (only gets friday off otherwise). He is fasting, so I don’t have to make lunch. . .woohoo.

  • Ana

    May 5, 2011

    Nura, I had no doubt things would go smoothly with you and her. You all have a very good, truly Islamic family. It’s admirable – more of the ideal than any other relationship discussed on the blog. It’s beautiful. Insha Allah, it will always be that and better happy

    I was very sad yesterday because I went to the halal butcher that I normally frequent and learned the owner/husband died sad He and his wife must have been married at least 50 years. They worked together all day at the halal butcher shop, and went home together at night. He past away three weeks ago. I didn’t know. She is still distraught. Asking about him, without knowing he had passed was rough. It opened the wound for her. It broke my heart that he passed. I cried into the night. He was and she is Turkish. They seemed to have had a beautiful monogamous marriage with wonderful sons. From Allah we come to Allah we return.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    May 5, 2011

    She and me friends?… Over my dead body!

    Lynn, don’t make me barf. frustrated

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Nura

    May 5, 2011

    Jenny, this isn’t just a funny ache that they are going to charge a fortune to diagnose (and find that it is just a funny ache), this is an actual disease that can be treated effectively and monitored. I would ride him until he goes.

    I have had doctors test up the wazoo to find nothing or a minor thing that couldn’t be fixed anyway. I have had them test and find HUGE things that had to be fixed. Make him go. Allah allowed you to find out about this for a reason. You could have remained ignorant forever(until his liver gave him trouble), but did not. I think someone wants you to take care of it. Your hubby may be helpless without you, but you need him around, your children need him around and the world needs him around. He needs to take care of himself-especially with diabetes! Does he monitor that? Does he know that it those two diseases have bad enough impacts on his health alone-but together! Wow, take care of the man. He needs you more than he did before.

  • Nura

    May 5, 2011

    If something happens while I am with him, I will let #1 know. I will also contact his best friend to help me and his wife to support me. I know that #1 would contact me. I am going to be buried in the family crypt(?) in Cairo along with everyone else in his family. I will be visiting it when we go there, where I will hear all kinds of family stories, I am sure. It seems they go there and talk about stuff. They actually have rooms to relax in and talk or think or something. Very different to me, but I think it is nice to know that I have a place I will be someday that is remembered and respected by family. Somewhere my kids can visit and know about. Seems gruesome, but nice at the same time. Death is kind of bittersweet, knowing the one is gone, but gone to eternity, not just FOR eternity.

  • Nura

    May 5, 2011

    Cindy, Salaam alaykum,

    I don’t think they will marry. I think he is playing. She is not a responsibility to him when she is a internet plaything-any more than any online sex chat is real. It is all fantasy.

    When my husband decided to marry me, he asked as soon as first consented (or suggested). He moved heaven and earth to help me complete my legal dissolution of marriage. He then did the same so that we could BE married. He would have moved temporarily to Greece (that seems to be where people go when Qatar is slow about permitting a marriage) except that we found out the embassy would actually be easy (he has seen so much bureaucracy in Egypt that he thought it would be worse than Qatar or moving to Greece temporarily). If a man wants to marry a woman, he marries her. And why a woman would marry a man that scares her defies imagination.

    If I told you the work that that man did to marry me, no one would believe it. I am not the kind of woman that a man does that for. However, he is the kind of man who makes a commitment and means it. He told me when we were engaged that he would do whatever it took to marry me and care for me. And he has. He told me that he would spend his soul. Seems dramatic, but I have seen what he does. If it was me or him against a bullet, I know that he would take the bullet. But you know what? He can’t take the bullets for her in another country. He can’t help her if she is hurt, he can’t even lift her furniture.

    It is just a fantasy.

    While we are on it-I don’t think that a fantasy should GET nights or hours or any time at all with him. He should keep it in his head(if he must) and not be speaking to her at all. I think his intentions (or lack of them) are clear, and this seems really really haram to me-the relationship of sorts that he has with her.

  • Lynn

    May 5, 2011

    That makes Carolinah special, Ana tongue Don’t give up yet. I have learnt anything is possible you may be good friends Allah knows best.

  • Ana

    May 5, 2011

    But, the woman that communicates with Cindy’s husband is at least cordial, acknowledges that she is Muslim and give Salaaams. So, Carolinah is in a class of her own; she can’t even do those basic things.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    May 5, 2011

    The thing is, all of you are dealing with wives that your husbands are married to that are nothing like Carolinah. Which of you have another woman in your life married to your husband that is similar to Carolinah? – Lynn; Okhti K (Khadijah); Huda; Jenny; – Nope! Well, maybe Cindy does, almost? – dial a babes…

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    May 5, 2011

    Jenny,

    It’s a tough call. I have no faith in doctors, but at times they are needed. I have had doctors suggest all kinds of things that I’ve rejected and I thank Allah much that I did. I would have gotten myself all jacked up had I taken their advice. Then there have been some minor things they’ve recommended and I went with, and was happy with the results.

    It’s a tough call. Sometimes all the tests and probing only makes things worst. I understand your husband’s concern. You, having been a nurse, can keep watch on things and help determine what is necessary and useful and what is not. I agree with your husband that somethings are best left for Allah to deal with. I’ve taken that approach with some medical conditions and the outcome has been most favorable. It’s a tough call.

    Anyway, I thought you were going to bed???

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Jenny

    May 5, 2011

    I have to vent for a moment. Hubs is driving me crazy! He thinks he needs to just leave the doctors alone and let Allah deal with his condition! GGRRRR!!!! I’m sure that’s all and well, but Allah gives you doctors to make you better, right?

    I will make his life a living hell until I get my way, and I WILL GET MY WAY!!! I think he is just a bit nervous and maybe scared, but hell, I may have the same thing too! He knows in the end he will go to the doctor and he will get the biopsy and whatever else needs to get done, because I won’t leave alone for one second until it’s done. I don’t even know why he wants to play this game because he will lose, as always! Am I the only one being driven slap crazy by their husband???? Husband for sale!!

  • Lynn

    May 5, 2011

    haha!! maybe i shouldnt use the word “bad” – i mean i will not be so cruel as to hide his death from her. May he has a long life !

    he is going there next week for 3 days and it has been a good since he came back on 24th April. As i was on medical leave the whole of last week we get to spend more time together and we even went on a movie date. he is trying his best to make things work better for everyone.

    i have to remind myself not to screw up and piss him. hopefully i can send him off nicely this time.

  • Jenny

    May 5, 2011

    Lynn,

    You’re the good one! I’m the wicked one, sorry, you can’t take my place! happy

  • Ana

    May 5, 2011

    Lynn, nobody thinks you’re a bad person. We’re all just going through a thing. Dag, if anyone thinks you’re bad, I only wonder what they think about me. They must think, I’m horrific sad

    It’s always easier to see the wrong in someone else. It’s said the same evil we see in someone else is a mirror reflection of ourselves. The same evil is in us. I believe it. I look at others and voice my opinion or views and then take a look at myself and say, WOW, I need to heed my own advice.

    Many times we say we’d do something hateful, if a situation presents itself, but if the time comes in which we need to act, only Allah knows whether it would play out as we said. It probably wouldn’t. I speculate too much, which is a sin. I need to work on that.

    You’re OK, Lynn. We beat up on ourselves too much. No one’s perfect on this earth. We have to recognize what’s not good in us and try to make it better. I’m sure when it comes down to the wire, you’ll pull through. We all will, if it pleases Allah. You’re struggling through this thing, as all of us are. You’ve only been doing this almost a year. I’m in it 4 and 1/2. You’re doing good, my friend!

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Lynn

    May 4, 2011

    Ana strange but we discussed about it before. i wanted him to die here in my arms LOL but if he is destined to die there i trust Ms. P will contact me and ferry the body to me for burial arrangements.

    I think I will do the same – i want him to rest in peace knowing me and Ms. P are there to arrange everything together happy afterall i am not that bad.

  • Jenny

    May 4, 2011

    Good night guys! You are the greatest! happy

  • Ana

    May 4, 2011

    Jenny, she just told us to shut up surprise Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

    Just kidding, Cindy laughing

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    May 4, 2011

    The way you described who he is was totally beautiful. Wow! It made me begin to think about Alex’s likes and dislikes. He likes the grape tomatoes happy Until he married Carolinah, I didn’t too much care anything about him, let alone know him. I was filled with anger towards him. He towards me too, for the way I treated him. Life between him and me is now better than it has ever been. I needed her in his life to make me wake up and smell the coffee. Now, we’re stuck with her. It’s OK happy She give me a break from him. A break is good. I’m one of those space needing people like Okhti K (Khadijah).

    I pray everything is going to be alright with the four of you, Jenny. It sounds you two have something very, very special. Don’t worry! I don’t foresee her causing you any trouble. There shouldn’t be any problems. Keep putting your faith and trust in Allah. That’s what we all need to do.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Jenny

    May 4, 2011

    You know Ana, as I was answering your question, I started thinking, she doesn’t know anything about him. Nothing at all. She doesn’t know what he likes to eat, or he likes me to rub his forehead to go to sleep. She doesn’t know that he loves tomatoes, but hates the grape tomatoes. She probably doesn’t know that he will only brush his teeth with Crest Whitening and wash his face with Pond’s. Nor does she know that he developed diabetes and what medicines he takes and for what. She cannot name one friend of his, or even know that his favorite activity is walking on the pier at Coney Island. She doesn’t know that amusement rides make him sick and he can’t stand cauliflower and likes looking at Christmas lights. She doesn’t know that all the passwords to everything he created is the nickname he gave me and he loves to play footsie or that he likes his back scratched as we ride up the elevator going home after a long day at work. She probably doesn’t know that Hubs talks in his sleep. Not in Urdu, but English, talking to me in his sleep. That is why I will not allow her to be at any memorial. What is she going to do, go there and say she’s the wife? I don’t think so. It won’t be nasty, because she wouldn’t come anyway. I don’t know what to tell her. I feel for her, but this is the way she chose it to be and now its too late because I’m not changing.

  • Ana

    May 4, 2011

    Jenny, thank you for sharing with us about your plans. I assumed you and hubby had discussed it. Sounds like you have everything in order.

    I’m assuming Alex expects me to contact his stepson who knows Carolinah. He’s the one that caught the two of them in bed doing the nasty when Alex was separated and going through a divorce. I’m assuming Alex is depending on his stepson to keep her informed should something happen. I assume she’ll have a hard way to go, because his ex-wife and his children will be a part of everything and I don’t need to tell you how they feel about her. The ex-wife and one of her daughters would be ready to beat her (Carolinah) down. When I used to refer to her as his wife, his mother always got angry and asked why I call her that. She’s not his wife, she’d say. So, I stopped referring to her as same. She said she feels sorry for her. She knows women that have been in her situation. His mother see’s it all as Alex “cheating” and she being the fool.

    Jenny, regarding the hepatitis, don’t get yourself all worked up. Keep making duah to Allah to take care of the four of you. You are a strong, determined woman. You will be just fine. Go through the motions. It’s all part of life. There’s a better one waiting for us, if we do the right thing. You’re a fighter and you’re going to do everything possible to take good care of you and your family with the help of Allah happy Take just one moment at a time.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Cindy

    May 4, 2011

    Asa Jenny and Ana…Thank you for your insight as I value your opinions. But I would like to hear from sister kadijah as she is number 4 and has a boatload of experience in this matter and also nura if you would be so kind to give me your opinion on my latest post..Nura because mashallah your spouse did marry you as a second for the right reasons and kadijah as I stated for her invaluable insight on women in general…If you can I would appreciate it very much happy

  • Jenny

    May 4, 2011

    @ Ana,

    I don’t mind answering that question because Hubs and I already discussed it when we married. His family has a crypt or something in Pakistan. He wants me and him together next to his father and where his mother will someday be. I don’t have a problem with that.

    Yes, if, G-d forbid, something happened to him, I would call Pakistan and let them know. I really don’t have to worry about them coming over here because there will be nothing here for them and they don’t have a U.S. Visa to get through in the first place. I would fly with him to Pakistan, or he would fly with me, whoever goes first.

    Like I said, the whole relationship is screwy to me, but it is what it is, and I should be grateful and not complain, nor will I stir up the hornets nest.

    As far as money, I don’t know what to tell her, but I don’t think that will be a problem either. We are both insured with the other as the beneficiary and the business is in my name. Our coop is in my name as well. I really doubt she is the type of person who will be snooping, considering they never talk. I would probably deal with the children or his mother or uncle (her father) rather than her. She has her house in Pakistan and I don’t know what else to tell her.

    While I’m typing this, I was on the phone with our doctor. Hubs is positive for Hepatitis C. Doc is sending him to a liver specialist and they are going to do a liver biopsy. I’m getting tested tomorrow as well.

    If it becomes too much, I would bury us both here in Florida where my family is. No, she would not be part of nothing as she cannot come to this country. Honestly, she would not be a part of anything anyway and he wouldn’t want her here. Why? They don’t talk. They have no relationship.

  • Ana

    May 4, 2011

    Lynn, how about you? Do you contact Ms.P, if something happens to your husband? Do you allow her to be by his bedside with you? Do you let her help you make burial arrangements etc.?

    These are all questions that will need to be addressed by the wives when there is more than one wife married to the same man.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    May 4, 2011

    Cindy, it would shock the living day light out of me, if your husband marries her. It would change the whole nature of their association. It appears they are content with their relationship as is, which is why neither are in any hurry to tie the knot.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    May 4, 2011

    Jenny, did you consider what you’d do, should something happen to your husband, whether you’d contact his other wife directly – things like that? Would his burial be in the US or Pakistan? Would you let her participate in the burial arrangements etc. Since he’d need to be buried before sunset the next day, how would you handle that with his family in Pakistan? I know it’s a bit morbid to speak of, so don’t feel compelled to answer.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    May 4, 2011

    Cindy, I, too, think she’s telling the truth – that she won’t marry your husband unless he’s married to you. There are women like that out here. My younger sister is one. She only has long term affairs with married men, and if the men leaves the wives, she leave the men, after she’s ruined their lives. It’s about the thrill and control or something or not wanting the total responsibility of the man – something like that. All the single men out here and some women want to latch onto an already married one. It’s the appeal of it, the thrill and danger, for some. I think Yaaseen Mohummad touched on the subject for a moment.

    Cindy, it was nice that she was open and frank with you on the phone. You were able to communicate with her and both of you were able to express yourselves to each other. It was nice that she apologized to you for the problems she was causing in your marriage, and for sending your husband those nasty pic. Regarding being married to the two of you, I think she meant you all would be somewhat of a family.

    Men like women to fight over them. Alex’s ex-wife and I had a big phone fight when I first met Alex. I answered his phone and it was her. I gave her the Salaams and tried to be nice to her. I advised her who I was. She went crazy with jealousy. Go figure-they were divorced. Alex sat there and did nothing – just let us fight it out. How crazy was that? He said to me the other day that when I tell Carolinah all the sexual thing he does to me, it makes him feel good and look good. No wonder he doesn’t tell me to stop texting her worried I just tell her stuff to mess with her and get her riled up. I’ve said all I can think of saying to her. So, as I’ve said, I have no intention of bothering her again.

    God forbid something ever happens to Alex that lands in him the hospital unconscious. I would love to be able to tell her she can’t see my husband. “I don’t know you. Please leave,” and have her a$$ escorted out of there. I don’t owe her anything. I don’t know her. All I know is it’s a woman Alex says he’s married to. I have no proof, and don’t have to take his word for it.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Jenny

    May 4, 2011

    @ Ana, I was surprised because no where in that book did it address diseases; although, one letter giving advice mentioned it. Go figure, the actual women in polygamy had to bring it up over the author! sad

    Today Hubs is like a beaten man, I’m trying hard to be a little nicer to him because I know he is being eaten alive by guilt. While I was putting his lunch out, he promised me he would follow the doctor’s orders to a T. I told him that he didn’t have a choice but to follow his orders because I will ride him like Seattle Slew to ensure that he does! Besides, it really doesn’t matter because I give Hubs all his medications when it is time and he just takes them, never questioning me. When I want him to go to the doctor, I make sure I have an appointment, so he has to take me anyway. I do have my little ways to make sure things get done, as we are never apart. The only time I’m without him is when I run to the organic grocery down the block.

    Now I am watching the Empire as I let him take a little nap. As he fell asleep, he asked me why I came into his life. I laughed and had to remind him that he was stalking me for months before he wore me down! happy I’m sure we will have many long talks to go. Being angry is probably the easiest thing to do, but I didn’t put myself into this situation, Allah did. This was something he wanted for me, as crazy as it is. I told Hubby that my being with him is my way of doing penance (I was kidding when I said that!). Seriously, I don’t know why it was deemed that we get this situation, but it definitely has drawn us close, keeps us close, and keeps the communication open. As far as leaving him, I wouldn’t or couldn’t ever do that. I love my husband too much and I don’t want to be without the best part of my life. Maybe when we started getting these diseases, Allah wanted us to be faithful to each other, which is the one ray of sunshine to this entire situation! I’m certainly not happy about this entire thing and what happened had nothing to do with polygamy, and it is a bit hard to figure out how to deal with this aftermath. It seems as soon as I have something figured out, another curveball comes our way — except this one can kill us. sad

  • Ana

    May 4, 2011

    @Jenny, many, many times, I thought about the possibility of contracting a STD (sexually transmitted disease) from my polygamous marriage, and have voiced my concerns in previous posts here. I believe Alex when he said he did not have sexual intercourse with her after he and I married and before he married her. He said she was trying to hurt me when she said it, and tried to lead me to believe that they were together a long time during our marriage. I learned he was communicating with her approximately four months before he married her. He came out and advised me of it. He said he was at her house when I couldn’t reach him for an emergency. He said he stopped seeing her completely for a couple months before they married to prevent them from engaging in any illicit sexual activity. I know how Alex was with me before we married and he never made any sexual advances towards me; although, we were eager to get married so we could.

    The one time he and I were away together and she insinuated that they had done something, during our marriage, he telephoned her in my presence and yelled at her in anger, telling her to tell me the truth, as He fears Allah and takes his religion seriously. He advised her to tell me the truth. She said she couldn’t talk as her son was there.

    It’s amazing that you asked, Jenny, because I’m still cleaning out my emails and today I read the one from Alex in which he said, with Allah as his witness, he did not have sexual intercourse with her while he was married to me and not married to her.

    I was very much concerned about not Alex messing around, but her. The majority of her texts and conversations to me, when she has said anything, were about how sexually experienced she is, how good she is in bed and how bad I probably am, and what a prude I was to not have had sex for 10 years while waiting for a husband. She spoke to Alex about her “fan club” – a wife that shows her husband her porn pics and says he’s her biggest fan. I saw her nasty pics. Everything about her is sexual. It’s probably how she was able to get a man to be with her. I know she doesn’t know the first thing about Islam or Allah, so she has no fear. I don’t think there’s a thing that would prevent her from having sex with another man, except not being able to find one that wants to do her. She the type that would give a man some (sex) just to get back at Alex for being polygamous. It’s called “pay back pu$$y.” There’s a post on the blog by a Judge Posner in which he speaks of women in polygamy that are promiscuous because their husbands aren’t around much, and are angry their husbands have sex with other women.

    I know Alex was a good and faithful husband to his first wife, according to what his first wife advised me. Alex said he didn’t begin sleeping with Carolinah until he and his wife were separated. His first wife began to suspect differently when she learned Alex had married Carolinah (just about five years into his marriage to me).

    I used to be very fearful of contracting something that she’d pass on to him. But, now I’ve been putting my faith and trust in Allah that He will protect me, and allow me to handle whatever comes my way happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    May 4, 2011

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Peace to all this wonderful day that we are all alive to see.

    Well, Okhti K (khadijah), thanks for the psycho analysis you’ve given us today laughing You gave me a lot to ponder. I guess it is pretty much the norm that the husbands make it appear all is good with each wife. I’ve gotten it before where he has said. “She doesn’t give me any problems.” I knew it was a straight up lie because her faith, if any in Allah, is not that strong. She used to let me know how upset she was, but doesn’t anymore. Alex used to yell at her when she’d bother me and tell her not to respond to my text. The last text she received from me, I pray will be the last she receives, regardless of what happens.

    Even if something were to happen to Alex, I am going to honor her wishes – she doesn’t want to be bothered. I owe her nothing. Allah doesn’t tell us to run after anyone. If I run after anyone it should be ALLAH. My Wakeel says I owe her nothing. She’s given me every indication she wants me to leave her alone (it’s been 4 and 1/2 years). She has said I don’t exist, so I owe her nothing, but to leave her alone from an Islamic perspective or any other kind. He said stop chasing her down and running behind her. So, there we go.

    You’re right though, Okhti K. We pretty much want to know the other wives are not handling things well, and are not OK. It’s not a good thing to want them to suffer. Is it? We should want what Allah wants for them and that is what ever happens. Whatever happens is Allah’s will, but we shouldn’t wish bad on anyone. So, I have to work on that one and implore the help of Allah. Thanks for the post, Okhti K. You’ve given me much to think about that’s helpful.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Nura

    May 4, 2011

    Khadijah, I get what you are saying, but I was married at the EGYPTIAN embassy and it was approved or registered or whatever (we have stamps)there. Is it law or just the bureaucrats that play games that are making it difficult? It seems the same law should apply at the embassy-and it was actually registered in Egypt with the info about his wife on it.

    We did have one funny bureaucrat at the embassy who declared that hubby needed all of his uncles birth certs in order to get my egyptian nationality started. The man has a LOT of uncleshappy And he is not even sure that they all HAVE birth certificates that can be retrieved(some really old ones). Turns out, the guy behind the bars made up that rule because he COULD. There are words for folks like that. I’m not allowed to say them though. He only needs his Dad’s b.c. to prove that he is egyptian himself.

  • Nura

    May 4, 2011

    I don’t think the idea that marrying both of you is creepy when one considers that he scares her! In my case, I liked the idea that he had a wife that loves him and is loyal to him through anything (even another wife). I liked the idea that he was marrying me for purely islamic reasons (he has a good wife and he cares for her properly and didn’t want me just to meet sexual needs or because he can’t make it work with her.) So, Mrs. #1, though I agreed to marry him w/o meeting her first, did figure into my decision and my comfort zone. Nothing remotely sexual about it, but as much as many of us like to deny it sometimes, we aren’t marrying just a man, but their family and like it or NOT, their other wives and kids are their family.

    I lost my family when I reverted. I literally lost them two days ago when they got on the plane and left with their dad. I want all the family I can get. I do think that is creepy, but the idea of being alone in a place that isn’t ‘mine’ is scary as hell to me. Scuse my french.

  • khadijah z

    May 4, 2011

    also @ nura with out a valid marriage to be in Egypt i have to continue to get Egyptian tourist visa’s and im not a tourist and they do not accept my common Islamic marriage, if i had a valid marriage i could apply for a spousal visa that guarantees me full access to all things esp med treatments as his wife and only have to renew it every 5yrs.

  • khadijah z

    May 4, 2011

    @ Nura okhti you your self did not marry in Egypt you did it where your at and then it was filed in Egypt this is what i have to do! Marry in Saudi or else where and then he can file it here. As an Egyptian he is allowed to do so but im not if he has more then one wife. Had you come and married here in the civil as all must do despite the Islamic they would see on his id he is married and would of ask for his divorce papers bcos you come from a country that dose not allow polygamy as do I which is the US sad
    I dont no how to make it any plainer to you for you to understand sorry

  • Cindy

    May 4, 2011

    Asa Jenny….Oh yeah the conversations will be every other day unless it is an emergency which I am fine with. Although I do not know what he can do from 5,000 miles away but whatever. I did tell her about the kids…How when he is on the phone with her no one else exsists and how my little one could and has just run out of the house and end up who knows where and he not be aware. Thanks be to Allah my older son “Caught” the little guy and dealt with it as I was not home. All she could say was that she did not know and to please forgive her……Again I believe her to some extent as I know what an ass my husband can be

  • Jenny

    May 4, 2011

    @ Cindy, I am so glad you had this catharic! Did you settle anything with her about limiting the phone calls and such? Will there be any further conversations? I would have told her how this relationship is affecting your children.

    Hep vaccines are now mandatory in children and newborns. In my nursing days, I took the first shot of the series and had an allergic reaction to it, so I was never able to complete the series. sad

  • Cindy

    May 4, 2011

    Asa Jenny…At least you know where you got it and he was forthcoming about the situation. My hubby has tested positive for exposure to hep c. As to the “other” heps” I too am a nurse and have had my vaccinations for hep a/b as have my kids (Which is mandatory in NY now) but I had them vaccinated for hep a before that because of traveling to pakistan and the such.
    As to the punchline…I ended the conversation with this….I do not hate you, I accept your apology and I expect your respect, whatever happens in regard to your marriage or mine is in Allah’s hands. Oh yeah I did kind of yell at them both at the same time on skype….”To stop saying your married when you are not and did they think that by them possibly constantly lying about it could be the reason that they are not…?(I don’t know if you can understand what I meant by that statement, I meant in terms of defying Allah)

  • Jenny

    May 4, 2011

    @ Cindy, I believe there is a kernal of truth to what she is saying. That is probably why hubby did not want you two to talk. Maybe he did uncounciously because he did tell you to answer his phone, right?

    It is weird that she wants to marry both of you! That is up there on the creep meter!

    Hubs is definitely the one with the problem. I still don’t think he is interested in marrying her or he would have done it already. This is just an ego thing for him as I think he is going through his mid-life crisis.

    @ Nura, thank you for your prayers and wishes. Truly, I am not angry with my husband. I know he wouldn’t do anything to hurt me. Last night we spent in each others arms after a nice dinner and I told him I don’t place any blame on him. His only crime is stupidity.

    I will be dragging his ass to the various doctors, along with myself. This is a very serious disease that is 100% more contagious than HIV.

    This started me thinking, am I the only woman this has happened to? What about diseases in polygamous marriages? How do the wives deal with this? Do they even think about it? What do you think Ana?

  • Jenny

    May 4, 2011

    @ Cindy. To answer your question, you are correct that Pakistan is a third world country and hepatitis can be caught from the food and water; however, that is Hepatitis A, which is not a lifelong disease, nor is it contagious from person to person. Hubby left Pakistan when he was a kid and was raised in England with his Uncle. Hepatitis B is spread by blood and sexual contact. Hepatitis C is a wild card as not much is known about it other than spread through blood, sex, and needles. It means it is not Type A or B. There is also Hepatitis D, which is very, very rare.

    I have been apart from my ex for about 10 years now. When I found out of his infidelities, I can tell you the first thing I did was drag his ass to the doctor and tested him for everything. You have no idea of the paranoia I would get from this and when I would go for my yearly with the GYN, I also insisted on being tested for everything. I can show negative everything up until I married. Who would have ever thought I needed to keep checking? If I wasn’t pregnant, we would have never known.

    The way the hepatitis panel is done it shows not only if you are positive or negative, but it can be as detailed to show if you were immunized (which he wasn’t), if he had an attack already (which he did) and also shows if he is a carrier and can spread the disease (which he is and can).

    The Western Blot test, which is the test for Herpes breaks down in a similar way. It shows if you have Type 1 and/or Type 2. By the various breakdowns, you can tell if you ever had a breakout (which I never had) and can tell if it is a new infection (new to me, not new to hubs).

    Yes, Cindy, I got these presents from my husband. There is no doubt and my husband never questioned that. When he finally had the herpes outbreak that I saw and drug his ass to the doctor, he thought it was a rash and has had these over the past four years. He thought he had an allergy. That is how we found out about the herpes. I thought it was weird he keeps getting these rashes. One day, I told him to drop his pants, the nurse here wanted to see it and I knew right away what it was. I never had a breakout. You would think that is a good thing, but it is not. I have to be on higher doses of immunotherapy than someone (like my husband) who already had breakouts. There are side effects to these medications: the main one, explosive diarrhea (sorry, to much info). Hubs gets away with one pill a day. I have to take two horse pills a day (each one triple the dose he takes). It has not been pleasant for me.

    Both diseases I have can be transmitted to the babies. Thank Allah, I know about them and I can be hypervigilant so it does not happen. Now our doctor will be sending us to a liver specialist (this will now make a total of 6 doctors I have to see) and the introduction of more immunotherapy. I’ll keep you posted.

    I just want to clarify that hubs knows where he caught this from. He had a brief relationship about four and a half years ago. He started getting sick after that, but never thought of sexually transmitted diseases. He has never been with Ms.P with this (it has been 10 years). I knew about that relationship before we married, and other than me and Ms.P, those are the only women he was with.

    Cindy, you dropped the punchline!!! Really, keep us hanging! What happened on Skype???? Inquiring minds want to know!!

  • Nura

    May 4, 2011

    dear Jenny,

    I am sorry about the news you got on the Hep. B. I hope your husband is treated promptly, as I think there are some pretty serious health implications with Hep. I hope the babies are unaffected, and I am SO sick of Dr.s who tell you that “no news is good news”. I want someone that has to see my face regularly to have looked at the actual reports. What lame care you received. I think that is wrong, if not actionable!!!

    My prayers for you and your hubby and babies. No reason to be mad with him, at this point, he is victimized by this as much as you-if not more. He hasn’t been cared for properly.

  • Cindy

    May 4, 2011

    Asa ladies…continued. So when he got out of the shower we were skyping (no camera’s as I did not want the “evil” eye” if you know what I mean) Ok so the first thing she did was apologize to me for the pics…she said she was wrong no matter what because they still are not married and she said that she would not want done to her what (they) have done to me. I asked her if at anytime my husband told her how the 3 hr daily phone calls were making me insane….she said “NO” he only ever told me “Cindy is jealous and will get over it..let me deal with cindy”. I explained to her that we are on the brink of divorce and I asked her if she was aware…”NO” she said. (Now at this point he is yelling at both of us to stop talking). She began crying at this point which kind of pissed me off..but she was saying that she will not marry my husband if he is not married to me. If I divorce him she “claims” she will always love him but will never ever speak with him again. True? who knows and I don’t care. I tried to explain to her that my divorcing him should have no bearing on his marriage to her but she just kept saying NO!NO! I want to marry (BOTH) of you and if I can’t marry both I will not marry any……weird I know but I now am absolutely positive that the problems I have been encountering with this marriage are all do to him…The only thing that I can actually be upset with her about is the fact that she too trusted him. (Besides the whole affair thing I mean). He finally admitted to both of us that he was enjoying the fact that two women were fighting over him and that is why he never told her how much it was bothering me when I begged him to…Sad I know. But here is the thing ladies, I kind of believe her.Do you think I am CRAZY or what?

  • Nura

    May 4, 2011

    I know I am not married according to US law, but I don’t care. I don’t understand how all this business affects coming and going to the US.

  • Nura

    May 4, 2011

    Khadijah,

    I am sorry, I am missing something. We were married in the Egyptian embassy and have begun proceedings to get egyptian citizenship-our marriage is registered and legal in Egypt-and the contract fully acknowledges his first wife.

    Is the visa issue from the US or Egypt? I am confused. It is easy to get a visa in Egypt and you are a US citizen, right? I am missing some key thing here. I am sorry to be obtuse.

  • Nura

    May 4, 2011

    Huda, just try not to think about her-you do your best to be who YOU need to be, want to be and should be-and that is all your husband can ask. If she sins or hurts others, that is between her and Allah and (sometimes) hubby or family. You do the right thing-don’t fret about this woman you have nothing to do with. Connivers usually get caught out in this life, if not, Allah is merciful and is complete in justice.

  • Nura

    May 4, 2011

    Speaking to Jenny about how hubby needs to share his time while in Pakistan-not nec. sex made me laugh as I remembered a conversation I had with a few unmarried girls the other day.

    Mostly reverts, these girls were going on about something and the sharing husband/time/sex bit came up. One of them said that if she is only getting her husband every 2/3/4 nights, then she was sure going to get sex on all of them or she would feel bad. She is a 24 year old virgin. Nuff said perhaps, but I tried to explain that no matter how much a man loves you or his other wives, every night was probably not physically possible for most men over the age of 25, not to mention general exhaustion from supporting more than one family. They were quite affronted, apparently thinking that sex is their absolute due on EVERY time they have with a husband. That might work when newlywed, but it isn’t a realistic expectation for any wife EVER, even in a marriage where there is only one wife-they certainly might not get it every night they have their husband with them.

    Do any of you feel cheated if you don’t get sex every night you are together? Are you convinced it is because the other one wore him out? Do you ever give the guy a general break on the grounds that no man is a sex machine? I am curious about others attitudes to this (especially as co-wife will be here again soon and I am suddenly feeling a little queazy on the subject.) Not an issue last time, but he is no longer recovering from a long period of deprivation, so not counting on this to last foreverhappy

    N.

  • Cindy

    May 4, 2011

    Asa ladies,
    @Jenny there are alot of pakistani’s with one or both hep b and or hep c as they get it from the water…lets not forget that it is a third world country. As too the herpes are you sure you did not getit fromyour first husband and not your current hubby?…Ok so some news on my end,, My mz. P apparently has been literally driving my husband insane because she has beeen wanting to speak with me one on one for awhile but he of course constantly refused to allow it I think because he was afraid of what I would say (TRUTH WISE) and/or that I would flat out refuse to speak with her. Well anyway he was in the shower last night and asked me to answer his phone if it rang of which I never do. But it was (her night) so I figured to sooner they started the conversation the sooner it would end so I went ahead and answered her call…..She said “I am so happy that (You) answered so we can speak and she asked me to please please go on skype so we could continue to speak. I agreed (hell I have already retained a muslim lawyer so I figured what could it hurt).

  • khadijah z

    May 4, 2011

    Asalaam Alaykum okhti’s i pray your all in a good mind today.

    @ All so you no just because your husband tells you they are handling it well dose not mean they are, believe me in this ok. winking
    It is better to say she is, so you think on it and try harder to handle it your self. He is also telling them this also till you text them, or fight to him where they can hear it going on.
    Many times Sherif had said the 1st and the 3rd were handing it very well until all hell breaks lose and he ended up giving a divorce to the 3rd and threatening the 1st wail she acts like a total fool towards the other wives and wonder why her daughter is talking down to her and trying to make her dad divorce his wives for her mom.
    even me myself try hard to Handel it and go off some times and the 1st thing comes out of sheirf’s mouth is ok what happened? you were doing very well and now your upset why? Who did this of you? because i try and keep it in till he brings it out by his show of neglect towards me like i told him you only want to hear me say Alhumduillah and that is it!

    Life is not grand for our husbands unless we make it so….. so telling you the other’s are handling it well is for you to think and wonder as your doing now… HOW? Why? and your list go on and on, and as i say this is what he is also telling them, which in turn is doing the same in there thoughts How? Why? and judging by many answers between you all, your not happy at the though that they are handling it well laughing

    So Why dose it bother US to not like this in thinking they are handling it and we are not? Is it we think they are getting more out of there marriage then US? Is it we think he loves them more then US and they know it?
    Or is it just the very thought that they could be ok or happy and we are not always?

  • Lynn

    May 4, 2011

    Hubby will not divorce either me or Ms. P, i know. It’s up to us to leave him if we cannot go through it anymore oops! my bad … if it is up to us I would have left months ago. It’s up to Allah.

    My hubby is a quick tempered person and about 20 years ago before our marriage i had prayed that Allah kept me away from him if he would not make a good husband to me and children. When I performed my umrah 10 years ago, I had prayed for the same – everlasting and happy marriage. Even after what hubby did with Ms. P, i had never doubt Allah’s decision. It’s all good !

    I just need to vent my frustrations, but that doesnt mean i am not accepting polygamy. How it started irked me and trust me, I am trying my best to forgive and forget.

  • Ana

    May 4, 2011

    Lynn, we don’t know what the outcome in going to be with us and our husbands. I just know that many times the husbands don’t leave any of the wives from what I’ve been reading. It’s usually one of the wives that leave. We can’t very well accept polygamy and the lot that we are in, if we’re wishing or praying for a different outcome. We have to accept that they are married, and will remain married. We have to accept that Allah decided it. That is the beginning of acceptance. Only then will we be content in our lives. We have to know that there is good in it for us and that Allah knows what is best for us. If they should happen to leave the other wives, well heck, that would be a surprise surprise But, we shouldn’t look for it to happen – that is if we want to accept that it’s Allah’s decision. Those are just my thoughts.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    May 4, 2011

    Jenny,

    Just hang in there! As Lynn and you said, everything is from Allah. He doesn’t give us a burden more than we have the strength to bear. You and hubby can get through this together with the help of Allah. We all say what we would and wouldn’t do in certain circumstances, but we have no idea unless we’re in the situation. It’s all speculation until we’re in a situation. I don’t know for certain what I would do. I may do just as you. Remain married, make the best of my marriage, and pull through this together. After all, I stayed in polygamy, right? winking

    Lynn, is right. Vent all you want. The good thing about polygamy 411, we don’t have all the self-righteous people that want to call everyone out on what they’ve done. You’re a bad Muslim, bad Muslimah, blah, blah, blah – it pisses me off when someone says that!!! We’ve all done things we’re not happy about and we all get tested and tried as Muslims. Muslim does not mean perfect, which I advised Carolinah when she wanted to call me out about leaving her unkind voice messages.

    I got those three series shot when I was working. I had to get them because of the job I had, and a shot for one of the hepatitis to go to Hajj.

    Anyway, you and your family will be just fine. Take good care of the little bambinos and your husband. It is what it is. You’ll be OK, with the help of Allah happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Jenny

    May 4, 2011

    One last thought Ana. This is totally preventable with the Hepatitis series of three shots. In my nursing days, nurses got the Hep shots. I had a needle stick injury once and got the first shot. I had an allergic reaction to the shots and couldn’t complete the series, which means I have 0% immunity. If I completed the series, I would have nothing to worry about.

  • Jenny

    May 4, 2011

    Thanks Lynn and Ana!

    You know, I am no longer surprised. I guess the herpes event was an eye opener. All we could think of was HIV and that’s what we tested for next. Never thought of anything else.

    I can’t even describe the shock as I pulled that result from the fax machine. Hubs was on the computer with an employee next to him, so I couldn’t even say anything! I went outside and called him from my cell phone to tell him. He has no idea what hepatitis is. When I tell you my husband is the most naive man in the world, I am not exaggerating. He just doesn’t have a clue.

    Right now he is in as much shock as I; although, he doesn’t know what any of it means. He just knows I am hurt. Honestly, I truly cannot be mad at him. I know with all my heart he would never do anything to hurt me. This sweet and gentle man I am married to would throw himself in front of a moving car to protect me. He’s done it before.

    I will stick with him and somehow we will figure this thing out together and deal with it one way or another. Seriously, I could not imagine my life without him and I know he is lost without me too.

    About Hubs telling Ms.P, honestly, I just don’t see it. There is no chance he will be with her physically again. To tell her would involve speaking to her, and they don’t speak and haven’t in 7 years. I don’t see that changing. Yes, she may be a wife, but in name only. I don’t know if that relationship includes knowing the most intimate of secrets. Again, its not my relationship. I do know that Hubs would not hurt her, and there is 0% chance he would touch her. The few times we spoke about her, I asked what if she wanted sex? Apparently, in 17 years of marriage (the entire 6 months of time they spent together), she never once made a hint of desire or advance. She didn’t like sex and just tolerated it the times he went to her. That’s just what I’m told. Again, my husband is always brutally truthful to me. I have no reason to doubt what he said. She may be married to him, but she knows nothing at all about him.

    Thursday I am going to get tested and I’m planning to speak my doctor tomorrow. Honestly, the shock to this has yet to rub off. I feel like I’ve been hit with a bat.

    So last night I went grocery shopping and I made him a very nice dinner. We were just clinging to each other, then we were together. It was more special than usual and in his sleep he kept apologizing to me.

    Your totally right Ana, and I told Hubs the same thing. We are stuck together. Luckily, I am happy being stuck with him! winking Seriously, if I ever left him, just kissing another man could mean a death sentence to him. I told this to Hubs. I could never be with anyone else again.

    Allah in his goodness and wisdom knows what we do not. Everything comes from Him. That has been my mantra. The only thing I could see is Allah knows my limits. Maybe this is the price I had to pay so my husband would be faithful. I don’t know, just a thought.

    I hate to say it, but I have more ammunition in an argument. sad

    I’m sorry for rambling…I’m still in shock. surprise

  • Lynn

    May 4, 2011

    Ana you can read between the lines and you can remember all the details almost accurately i am impressed.

    i hope he gets tired of everything soon – travelling and spending that extra money is no fun especially when there is nothing for him there except her. When he told me that day, “if she decides to return to the village, i no longer need to make a trip there. Just remit money over.” – how cool is that ?

  • Lynn

    May 3, 2011

    Jenny i am truly sorry for you. Dont take it too hard everything is from Allah i believe you can handle it sis! Vent all you want here we are listening.

    Take care …

  • Ana

    May 3, 2011

    Jenny, the only thing I can say is you are one heck of a strong woman. I know me and had someone given me herpes, I would be devastated. It would take me a long time to get over it and forgive, if I get over and forgive at all. Allah knows best. The only thing that would keep me from leaving him would be the thought of starting a life all over again with someone else, and having to tell him.

    When I was living at home with my mom, our neighbor (non-Muslim) contracted herpes from her husband who goes on business trips. She stayed with him. I thought why would she leave. They both had it. They may as well stay together. She’s the one that had a stove fire, panic and pulled the pan of burning cooking oil on herself. Her whole front pelvic part of her body had 3rd degree burns. My mom said the last time she saw her, she (the neighbor) was still married, had a boyfriend and was an alcoholic.

    I think your husband should come clean with his other wife about what he has because she has a right to know, as his wife, regardless of what type of marriage they have. Then you can rest assure that there would probably be no physical contact between them ever again and she may just opt for a divorce – probably not, as she’ll want to keep getting the financial support.

    I don’t know, Jenny. You have more to concern yourself with than worry about her being married to him. Just make sure you and your babies are OK. It should be your main worldly concern right now.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Jenny

    May 3, 2011

    Hi! Right now I am in a state of shock and you gals are the only ones I could ever discuss this with.

    When we were going to go through IVF, our doctor ordered a bunch of tests for my husband: hepatitis, Cystic fibrosis, blood type, etc… Anyway, never thought of it again, but my doc asked for a copy of the cystic fibrosis just to put in the chart.

    So, I called our family doctor and he faxed over our lab reports, and I guess no one reviewed them since it was just for IVF. To make a long story short, Hubs tested positive for Hepatitis B. I was in total shock when I saw that spit out of the fax machine!

    For those that need reminding, he already tested positive for genital herpes.

    I guess Ms.P is lucky she don’t have to deal with this. Funny enough, I’ve never been tested for Hepatitis, but I remember being vaccinated for that in my nursing days. I wonder if those antibodies are still floating around in our blood and I need the doctor to tell me if this is going to hurt the babies, as I’ve read it can be passed through pregnancy. Have to dust off the nursing books (I was a cardiac nurse, all I know is heart and lungs still).

    Can you understand why I would leave my husband if he ever slept with Ms.P (not that she wants him). I feel like I am the only one sacrificing here. First I get herpes, now this…. Oy! I’m sorry, I’m upset and I can’t say these things to my husband. I know he didn’t do this deliberately. Dumbass didn’t even know what he had. When we found out about the herpes, we were just worried about AIDS…never thought of this and I never saw it coming! Thanks for allowing me to vent.

  • Ana

    May 3, 2011

    Lynn, I feel for you regarding your thoughts about Ms.P, and how she’s handling the matter. I think the same about Carolinah. I say to myself, she must be happy with the schedule; she must be content to have a husband, although she has to share; she must be content with the arrangement. What I know is that we all, as wives in polygamy, go through a thing. No one wants to share a husband in this day and age, unless it was willfully sought. Some women look for married men to marry, as it suits their lifestyle.

    I’ll reiterate this: Just like you and I are going through a thing, Ms.P and Carolinah are, as well. It’s all in how we handle things and our personalities and dispositions have a lot to do with it. Some women lash out at the other woman/wife about what has happened; some lash out at their husbands; some just internalize what has happened, and lash out at no one; some blame Allah and lash out at Him by turning apostate. We all are different in our approach.

    You have to remember that Ms.P knows you and your family very well. She was in your intimacy. I believe you said you all prayed together on occasion etc. She has been with your husband for just about four years now, if I’m not mistaken. She’s learning a lot from him. Your husband is probably keeping her grounded, and reminding her to remember Allah, read Quran, offer her salats, seek refuge in Allah when evil thoughts enters her mind, etc. etc. All that helps. My wakeel does that for me. We all as Muslims need reminders, and those close to us that want to serve Allah

    Although Ms.P and your husband have done some things wrong (as we all have), they are wise enough to ask Allah’s forgiveness and they are now married, as well, so they don’t have to worry about doing it again, unless with someone else. We know Allah forgives all sins except Shirk, when we ask Him and have sincere intentions not to repeat the act. We don’t even know whether your husband and Ms.P fornicated/adultery. Neither one confessed to it and there were no witnesses to it, so the flogging part, can’t be carried out. The stoning is all cultural; it’s not in the Quran.

    In my situation, I know Carolinah is going through what I am going through or have gone through. What may make it more difficult for her is her limited understand of Allah and Islam, and not having anyone to help her with it. I know Alex stated before he married her that she needed help as people kept taking advantage of her and she didn’t stand up for herself. It could be why she doesn’t say much back to me; I don’t know.

    I ask myself what she and I have in common (other than being married to Alex) that we have to talk about. She and I are not on the same wave length. I think about what she has written me and it has been nothing intellectual or that makes much sense. She’s called me “stupid”, a “fool”, “miserable”. She said, I’m miserable when I look at my wedding pics. What sense does that make? Anyone that looks at their wedding photos Reminisce about the happy time and beauty of it. Hellooooo. One time when Alex and I were away, during the Thanksgiving holiday, she texted me each day until I returned. I, of course texted back. It’s when she had the car accident and said she didn’t want to speak with Alex, as she was angry with him. He had yelled at her about bothering me. The day he and I were to return home, she said, “I hope you took a douche.” What sense did that make? Alex read it and he and I just looked at each other stunned. There’s a reason she made a CAREER out of a job that HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS take.

    So, I’m just moving ahead. I won’t bother her anymore. I pray to Allah that He protects me from myself and any desire I may have to reach out to her in the future. Every time, I’ve texted her, I’VE PAID FOR IT. It haunts me; destroy my time with Alex and no good comes from it.

    We all go through a thing. What matters is how we deal with it and who, if anyone, we have in our intimacy that can support us and encourage us to do the right thing.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Cindy

    May 3, 2011

    Asa Kadijah…OMG!!! Mashallah to you for dealing with all of that crap daily. I definetly know my limitations and there would be no way I could do that what you do…I was confused just trying to figure out what you wrote must less what you live…happy

  • khadijah z

    May 3, 2011

    Nice day out today, of course sheirf was alte like all Egyptians time is an open area for them but they will try and rush you which is a joke in its self winking

    Got there same woman as last time but dont think she recognized me not a problem took my marriage agreement and she accepted it which gave me a lower rate then a regular tourist yes i have to pay every 6 mos for over 6yrs now for a friggin tourist visa but i wish the gov would do it also to get this all straight. Told us to come back at 2pm and it would be ready so went to have lunch Pizza and salad not had a Pizza since before being here so about 7yrs actually, a lot of walking tho got back and they had lost my passport surprise
    took them all of an hour to find it laughing but they did Alhumduillah for all

    Had a good laugh tho wail we were at lunch the 1st called nothing new on his 1st day back she called 8 friggin times and he did not pick up dont no why i did not even know cos he put his phones in his laptop bag
    Anyway she called to say the 2nd called her wanting the drill for Sherif to fix some thing today buttt!!!!!, it is the 3rds night and there 1st night together him and her and there kids since he got back. so the 1st took it in hand and told her ( 3rd) she was not sure where the drill was but would get it to her soon then called sheirf to tell him of it of which he had no idea what it was she wanted fixed and had no intention on going and doing anything for an of us on anyones night other then important things like my visa and passport or his business actions so every thing else we need done is on our won time not the time of the others whcih is fair if its not an emergency ……sooo
    About an hour later wail we were on the underground as they call it i say the old train the 1st called again wanted him to stop by her cos was a problem in her propane tank he told her eh would look at it in the morning but will not go by her he was on his way home to the 3rd which lives right across the street from her ( 1st) laughing
    so i could hear her yelling over the phone and the look on his face said ok keep quiet dont say nothing or you will blow up and the people around you will hear it laughing
    I could see the hairs falling from his head as she ranted and yelled and he hung up so i said is she ok what is the problem is the 2nd bothering her again he said no this time it is her acting stupid of which he told me of it and i only said ok is it an emergency or just a ploy to take the time of the 3rd, in any case it is the 1st night to the 3rd since your return so do with it as you will and i said nothing else winking he drooped me at home and continues on to the 3rd hot day my feet are killing me and passed out once i was in the door. not been out in this way in a very long time winking

  • khadijah z

    May 3, 2011

    @ Nurah in Qatar and Saudi they go by Islamic laws in regards of marriage so long as your a Muslim and can produce papers to prove this like i have from Al Azhar and it is legal, but here in Egypt they put on the ID or Lic he is married and in the US it is against the law to have more then one wife, and Mubarak was nose up the butt to the US gov to stop these marriages and so much so since they stopped this marriages in 2004 just before i got here they have even tried to seek out other American women who are in polygamy to make them divorce, but the officials did not comply in it so this made Mubarak fall out in favor so much with bush so. when we went to get our court marriage bcos here you the court and the Islamic but if you come from a country that dose not accept polygamy like the US and your id say your married the 1st thing they ask for is your divorce papers in other words he and i could not have the valid marriage only the Islamic marriage due to im his 4th wife and the US will not accept this. so in order to get a valid marriage he has to either div all of them and show proof of this or we have to go to Saudi or Libya or any country that do not fallow US policy’s in this to get a valid marriage to file in Egypt so i can get a spousal visa and so on or put on his travel passport as his other wives are on. this also guarantees that if any thing happens i dont lose my rights in getting my dowry if he dies in case some one say no she is not valid marriage and ship me off the valid marriage is to protect the womans rights so she is not denied by his family of her rights or by another wife. so
    laughing

    Got my visa updated till only the 2nd of June cos they go by every 6mos period and cos my passport expires in Aug have this next. 2 choices they will up date it and inshaAllah i can get a visa to go to Saudi and take care of this marriage issue or they start to F*** with me and P*** me off and try and deprive me of my rights as a citizen and of my rights to practice my religion and i tell them to sick it up there F***** A**** and then will have to get a lawyer and go from there. believe me when i say im very tired in this situation due ot the fact when they start stopping people checking there papers i cant even go out due to this might happen so its to the market and back no life outside this can be unbearable to say the least sad
    in all im really getting tired bcos as a non wife even if i paid up the ying yang to go to Hajj as part of a tour package if we were caught together its in the hole and stoned to death, why well no gov offices are open during Hajj and most of Ramadan in Saudi sad and they are very strict in this that if they catch you past the time ur suppose to of left they will throw you in jail and send you where ever and in my case that would be the US sad A friend i new was planning to marry there and was going to send me a invite to go on a visitors visa so to get this taken care fo and attend her wedding but it got called off due to his family said she was not good enough to be a 2nd wife bcos she was a British reverted Muslim from a poor working class Christan family so well there went that winking my life in a hand bag as usual my test never quite actually this has been my entire life so to speak even before Islam winking i just want to finish and fix this as if my passport expires i will not be able to even visit my mom and my kids let alone my grand kids i already lost my dad wail i was here sad dont no if i could take losing my mom and not see her before this happens

  • Jenny

    May 3, 2011

    Big Hugs back at you, my friend! My Little Cindy-Lou-Hoo! happy

  • Cindy

    May 3, 2011

    Asa Jenny…..Inshallah all will be well with you,she and him. You are right our Glorious Allah knows what is best for all of us and will do as he see’s fit in all of our lives. Big hugs my friend!!

  • Jenny

    May 3, 2011

    @ Cindy,

    You are absolutely correct and I have thought about that. The best I can understand from their relationship is that there was talk of a divorce once. She didn’t want the disgrace. He has NEVER lived with her and didn’t, but he agreed not to divorce her. Not to sound cold, but from my observations (and that is all I have is my observations and what hubs tells me) is that the marriage is a business arrangement. There is no communication between them.

    She doesn’t expect anything from him other than financial support. She is also his first cousin, so if he did divorce, it would cause a train wreck in the family.

    I’ve given up cramping my brain to figure this whole thing out. I’ve stressed myself worrying about this trip to Pakistan that in all reality is probably years off.

    He has not had any physical relations with her for over 10 years. This is a fact, in my snooping, I’ve seen his passports (his Pakistani and U.S.). Islamically, I know that is wrong; but they have a business arrangement. She has not told me she is waiving her rights, as we do not talk. Her family (her dad, husband’s mother’s brother) calls me often, her brother, etc… No one is unhappy about the arrangement. Other than giving her children and a home, that is the end of their marriage. I agree with you, it doesn’t sound right to me, but I am not her. She may think I’m the nuttty one for dealing with him on a daily basis. From what I’m told is they really don’t like each other, but did what they had to do as this was a family arrangement and she wants to be left alone. Personally, I think this is not a way to live a life, but it is her life. I do have great respect for her because what she does she does from family honor. I know she is also a very faithful and honorable Muslim. I cannot say anything bad about her.

    Besides, this is their relationship, and has nothing to do with me. When I was sticking my nose in where it did not belong, I was stressed and very nasty. I’ve let it go. We are about ready to hit 3 years of marriage and when I really thought about it, I knew what I was getting into when I married my husband. I can’t say any of this was a nasty surprise as he was always honest with me. So, my choices are to stay married or leave. Leaving is not an option as we have a beautiful marriage. Am I going to tell him he needs to live in Pakistan for part of the time? Hell no! The situation is what it is. Again, I don’t mean to sound cold, but this arrangement was in place LONG before I met my husband.

    My husband’s Imam knows the entire situation and has never said anything to my husband. When he married us, he thought this was a beautiful thing. What I do commend my husband for is that he continues to honor her in supporting her and not divorcing her. If I couldn’t handle it, I could put my foot down and he would divorce her. Hubs tells me all the time, if I want him to divorce her, he will in a second to keep me happy. But I will have to be the one who has to live with the shame that would befall this righteous Muslim lady.

    So, everyone is happy with the arrangement (I don’t know if I would say I’m happy about it, but I can live with it), so I leave it alone. I also leave it alone because it is none of my business. If I insisted on a divorce, that would mean I would have to take care of MIL, and I already know that she is a tyrannt.

    I can’t look at my husband and think he is the bad man, because he offered her a divorce and she didn’t want it because of the shame it would bring her. They agreed on financial support, the title, and taking care of the family there. Above that, I know nothing.

  • huda

    May 3, 2011

    Asalaam

    Jenny you are right, she will answer to a higher authority, thanks for the reminder.

    Nura, thank you for your encouraging words, clearly you understand my temperament, I am an over thinker and wallow too much in my own thoughts and thoughts of others too.

    I know I am no saint and have done many things I’m not proud of, but not to the extent she does. You said it right Nura, she is conniving, but when it is made apparent on numerous occasions (not all by me) it is left under the radar, whereas if I did those same things everyone would be up and arms about it. That is what I mean about double standards, maybe my husband expects more from me, or has a different level of regard, I don’t know but it is not just in my eyes.

    Me and no.2 have no contact Nura, we live in different countries, and have only met for a brief awkward moment ONCE! We never communicate and have nothing to do with each other, that is the way I prefer it. How I find out about things she has done or her personality is primarily through the actions and behaviour of my husband, overheard conversations and sometimes hearsay from my husband’s family.

    Inshallah, I pray I could brush all thoughts of her under the carpet, like they say: out of sight out of mind.

    much salaam

  • Cindy

    May 3, 2011

    Asa Jenny, I might be mistaken but if a husband with two wives is within a certain physical distance from each wife then he must islamicaly share his nights. He does not have to have sex with her but time wise must be divided. If this is not done on the mans part then he is violating Allah decree on fairness to both wives. Now if “YOU” actually hear her or she tells you herself that she is giving you her time then it is no sin on you or him but I know if I was in her position I would at least feel sad…No offense

  • Jenny

    May 3, 2011

    @ Huda, I know you are hurting from the actions of hers. Even though she never apologized and everyone gave her the benefit of the doubt. Not to sound like a Hebrew National commercial, but she will answer “To A Higher Authority” as Allah is all-seeing and all-knowing. Leave it with him.

    Oh, one last thing I wanted to mention about Pakistan. Hubs wanted our marriage registered in Pakistan, if and when we ever get there.

  • Jenny

    May 3, 2011

    @ Ana, Thank you! The sinus infection is a little better. At least the fever is down. I still have 6 days left on the antibiotic. Hubs is sick too; although not as bad as me. I did manage to crawl out of bed and make him chicken soup, which is one of his favorites and that made his day.

    @ Lynn, that book was a help to me, putting me on the right way to think. I have to say, I’m biting my tongue a lot (which Hubs loves) and I am taking a lot of the advice. In the end you have to think, is this a battle you are going to chose? If so, how do you want the outcome of the battle to be? For me, if I won my battle, I would be stuck taking care of my MIL and I would have shamed a decent Muslim woman. I would have not felt good about myself, and Hubs would have done what I wanted, but he wouldn’t have felt good either. So I leave things the way they are.

    When I read your message this morning, something hit me. Lynn, I think you are okay with the polygamy issue. I see how your feelings have changed. You have a more unique problem than I had. You actually had three problems you had to deal with. You had to deal with the violation of trust from your employee. Really, in all practical purposes, she stole from you. The second thing you had to deal with was your husband’s infidelity, in your own home no less! And the third issue you had to deal with was polygamy with these same people. That is a tough road to hoe for any person! No wonder you feel the way you do! You have to heal from the first two issues before you can make sense of the third (although you are doing very well on the third). My ex was a cheat on me, and I never could get over the trust issue and was one of the reasons for our divorce. I couldn’t deal with it. Maybe you and hubs should do things to build that trust once again, or maybe you are past that and trust him again. Just a thought. happy

    @ Khadijah, You are a clip! Wish I was in Egypt to have lunch with you and Nura! I don’t think I could stop laughing for a second! laughing

    I’m glad to hear you were able to spend some time with Sherif. I know it is hard to have him away so much. I agree with you about living in the same home! I think a 10 ring circus doesn’t even begin to describe it! You could probably write a New York Times best-seller with your gang! happy Definitely, I agree you should have your own place. Could you imagine for a second if he did find a place where everyone lived under the same roof? I don’t think he could handle it! And then you could remind him it was his idea! winking

  • Nura

    May 3, 2011

    Dear Huda,

    I don’t know what she did and I will trust you that it was awful-Us women can be kind of awful sometimes.

    I hope you don’t assume her reactions based on the results. Doing something wrong and not fearing consequences is not the same as doing something wrong and not paying the consequences. All that you fear from your actions may or may not be true. And that she was forgiven perhaps means that you too will be forgiven. Maybe you overthink, or maybe you understand better some potential consequences that might face you. either way, potential consequences don’t always pan out the way we think. Maybe you are harder on yourself than anyone else is?

    I have done some boneheaded things in anger. I have not ‘paid’ for all of them (YET). Does the fact that I kept a straight face or didn’t cry or prostrate myself about it mean that I wasn’t weak kneed in fear? I have been quivering inside while standing tall on the outside. Sometimes it was mis-placed pride or justification, but I knew that I might well pay harshly for things I have done. I can think of something just in my ‘engagement’ that I did and was forgiven. I thought he would call it off. He didn’t. I thought it was a huge, serious, heinous thing (and it was, as I was not honest about something important). It wasn’t in a rage, but it showed a fear of him (to not speak the truth to start with) and a character weakness of mine (not to tell the truth about something that embarrassed me). No one is perfect and even though you are conscientious, you have made mistakes too. If she hurt you in this and faced no consequences, can you talk to her about it and tell her how her actions hurt you? (Not your ideas about her feelings or others reactions, just what she DID). You need to forgive for you, cause obviously(to you!) this doesn’t affect her. Maybe she has no idea how much it affected you? Or, maybe she is just a conniving so-and-sangel I don’t know. Try to watch with assuming the motivations and hearts of others though. That can lead you down really dark alleys that aren’t safe!

  • Jenny

    May 3, 2011

    Can we live together?

    I know two poly families that are in this boat and actually made it work. The first is a very old man my husband knew for about 30 years. He had three wives and they all lived in the same house and nobody ever fought! I know, incredible as it sounds… Then the wives started dying off and he is now alone, living with his daughter.

    The other one I know is a man with two wives and they live in apartments next-door to each other. I’ve observed him in action after winning his court case. He called one wife, than the other and told them what happened. I was teasing him how did he know which wife to call first! winking He makes his wives work to support him!

    Now, my personal situation. When Hubs first brought this trip to Pakistan up, he insists I stay in the family home with him. I’ve said many times, I have no adverse feelings toward Ms.P. Her behavior, actions, and the things she does is a model for a Muslim woman. One I hope to aspire too. So, when I say this, I say it from the most Islamically pure intentions…I don’t want her to be hurt, I’m thinking of her feelings.

    Hubs explained that everyone would be hurt if I don’t stay in the home. I would be sleeping with him (I even asked for the spare bedroom so her feelings wouldn’t be hurt) in his room and he would not leave my side for a second. He reminds me that his marriage to her was nothing like ours and they don’t have a physical relationship and don’t care too. He says theirs is a marriage of duty. Everyone in his family will love me. It was his wish to have his family under one roof.

    How could I tell him no? Call me naive, but I really believe it is the way Hubs says it is. His family is very kind and loving to me. We are not the first poly marriage in his family and his sister’s marriage is a mirror copy of mine. So, I can see this working for the few weeks we will be there. Besides we will be busy every day and not even be home until late at night. Can this work on a long term basis? Honestly, I wouldn’t even want to try it because I like being the Queen Bee in my hive!

  • Nura

    May 3, 2011

    Lynn, I think it is ironically funny that you are mad at your maid for doing what we all aspire to-trying to rise above all the rest of the circumstances. Please, she messed up, hubby messed up, but now there is a chance for you all to find a way through this. I hope you take it with open arms. The ex maid bit rankles, and I get it, I truly do, though I imagine the betrayal generally ranks worse for you. She IS playing her cards right-she is playing like we all should be playing. On the one hand, we say how we should do it, and then on the other it is portrayed as kind of nefarious if someone DOES do those things. Pray for your husband and his family-all of you-to find your way in this relationship. YOU deserve it. She is trying to, and your husband is too. Don’t make it harder for you than they already made it. It can be better-let it.

  • Nura

    May 3, 2011

    Oh, as to the fertility, I am not going to stress on it. I decided that we are doing our part, Allah will do his, and I will be happy with how it shakes out, either way. Doctor thinks I am pretty much menopausing, but not much help other than the referral which is useless mostly. So, if I pop up pregnant, you can count me among the near miraculoushappy

  • Nura

    May 3, 2011

    Sisters,

    Today the doctor was not encouraging. Gave me an urgent appointment for the fertility specialists and they couldn’t find an appointment for me until the (GET THIS!) end of AUGUST. Glad I am not bleeding heavily!’

    I then spent 3 hours waiting to get an xray of my feet.

    My beautiful darling husband waited the whole time with me when he didn’t need to-we arrived in sep. cars. He waited with me (and he had nothing to read!) but down the hall with the men. Then, he came in the xray room with me, pestered the technician, insisted that she cover me thoroughly with the lead jacket since I might be pregnant (IN HIS MIND-last blood test was a month ago and neg.)He then donned one himself and helped me keep my balance for some contortions I had to do for the xray view they needed.

    If I didn’t already love him, I would have fallen then. I think the technician was jealoushappyHe is so good to me. I am not accustomed to such a generosity of love from anyone. I sure don’t deserve it.

  • Nura

    May 3, 2011

    Khadijah,

    I am curious about egypt and KSA both not recognizing your marriage-why not? We were married and have it all registered in Egypt already, even in Qatar. We were married in the embassy here. Qatar wouldn’t do the deed, some fear about international incidents because of my ex’s job is what we are speculating.

    I would love to meet you. I will be in Egypt this summe or fall, inshaa Allah.

    N.

  • huda

    May 3, 2011

    Asalaam Alaikum Ana

    Great story, never heard it before. How true is that “..Broken bones & hurt feelings often can’t be repaired”. I often consider this before I speak and that is why I have no communication with no.2 whatsoever. Have you ever heard the saying “Man may regret speaking, but he will never regret silence”. What really upsets me and makes me feel as bitter as I am is that the same thought and consideration is not taken by others. No.2 did something about a year ago that was totally done in spite of me; something to really shake me up. Everyone knew this. When I confronted my husband he said give her the benefit of the doubt but indirectly deep down he knew it too.

    She took action in rage and was forgiven. Her actions didn’t haunt her. She didn’t fear any consequences. Me on the other hand continuously think about consequences and ‘what ifs’ I try to be very cautious in all I do and say to others. I am pent up with lots of anger and that is why I probably direct it towards my husband.

    I don’t know, feel crappy at the moment and am seeing lots of double standards in my life.

  • Lynn

    May 3, 2011

    Ana everything will be okay as long I don’t mention ms. P and divorce. I find it strange – ms. P only have him average 5 days a month and she seems okay with it. She doesnt send me nasty texts or making things difficult for my hubby. She abided by the schedule set by my hubby and never call him when I’m home with him. Too good to be true right ?
    It pissed me to see she’s okay with everything. She plays her cards well and wanna get into my hubby good books.

    I know I should just please Allah, and love my hubby moderately. I wanted to get that book both Jenny and you recommended but the shipping cost twice tongue l am still considering. And from what Jenny posted it is almost similar to what my hubby told me. He knows that much I am left speechless.

    It irks me that everything is okay with her and knowing she calls my hubby “my love” made it even worst. I felt disgusted. Sorry brothers but she was my ex-maid and it takes a long while before I can get over it.

    Am I okay to you, Ana ? Dont know when i will be really okay.

  • Ana

    May 3, 2011

    I was just cleaning out some of my old emails and came across the following. I may have posted it previously, but it’s still good to re-read:

    “This is a true story which happened in the States. A man came out of his home to admire his new truck. To his puzzlement, his three-year-old son was happily hammering dents into the shiny paint of the truck. The man ran to his son, knocked him away, hammered the little boy’s hands into pulp as punishment. When the father calmed down, he rushed his son to the hospital.

    Although the doctor tried desperately to save the crushed bones, he finally had to amputate the fingers from both the boy’s hands. When the boy woke up from the surgery & saw his bandaged stubs, he innocently said, “Daddy, I’m sorry about your truck.” Then he asked, “but when are my fingers going to grow back?” The father went home & committed suicide.

    Think about this story the next time someone steps on your feet or u wish to take revenge. Think first before u lose your patience with someone u love. Trucks can be repaired.. Broken bones & hurt feelings often can’t. Too often we fail to recognize the difference between the person and the performance. We forget that forgiveness is greater than revenge.

    People make mistakes. We are allowed to make mistakes. But the actions we take while in a rage will haunt us forever.”

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    May 3, 2011

    @Nura, I’m praying to hear some really good news from you. I’m excited about the prospect of you joining the bandwagon and birthing a babe happy

    @Okhti K (Khadijah), all I can say is Sherif has his hands full, but he manages well. He hasn’t snapped, crackled and popped, which is something to be thankful for.

    @Muhammad Yaaseen, how would it work, you having a day – hypothetically? You’d need three dwellings for that; I’d think i dont know One for the first, second and a third dwelling for you.

    @Lynn, I haven’t heard from you and I’m very concerned sad Please let us know everything is OK.

    @Nura and Jenny, I hope you both are feeling better and your sinus problems are clearing up.

    Well, everyone, my life is so uneventful. Perhaps, it may be a good thing. If there’s no schedule problem going on, I don’t call Carolinah and I don’t mess with Alex’s phone, there’s nothing to write home about. It has been the story of my last 4 and 1/2 years, living polygamy. All of you have the exciting lives, living in foreign countries and some preparing to drop a load (give birth) happy I enjoy hearing about how life is in foreign lands.

    It’s 2:45 in the morning. Alex is sleep. I can’t. I think I’ll meditate for a while and then try again to get some zzzzzzzs. Alex is off today. Insha Allah,I may go with him to take his mom to get her passport for our cruise in July and take her for her doctor appointment. How exciting is that? woo, woo, woo!

    This is an open house No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • khadijah z

    May 3, 2011

    @ Nura inshaAllah okhti.

    my husband will be leaving back to KSA around the 14th or 19th depends on things he can get done here before.
    would be nice to meet up with you if he ever gets my visa to go there to also validate our marriage by Saudi rule rather then a marriage unable to not file and be as a tourist with a Islamic marriage only that neither my or the Egyptian gov recognize sad InshaAllah if i get there would be great to hook up have lunch meet and see how far off the beaten path we both are winking

  • Nura

    May 3, 2011

    Alya,

    My husband is perhaps particularly sweet and good, but your husband should make you feel secure in his affections and home. He may not coddle you like mine sometimes does, but you deserve to be cared for. That is the deal. You love and care for each other in the ways that are needed. I don’t know what is going on right now with you. Does everyone understand that you are his WIFE and (not that it matters!) his first wife?

    How is the baby? Are you feeling good? I was totally off of eggs when I was pregnant at home. I am off to the doctors now!!!

  • Nura

    May 3, 2011

    Salaam alaykum, sister Huda,

    My husband came here to work and never thought to come out of it with a second wife. He prayed that Allah would let him off of the responsibility he felt to marry me. So, I wasn’t anything he thought he wantedhappy And a second wife at all was not either. That was not in the 5 year plan AT ALLwinking

    But it is a good reminder to keep things simple and not reach out for too much. Thank you, sister.

  • Nura

    May 3, 2011

    Salaam alaykum Okhti Khadijah,

    Your words reminded me of some simple things I can do-like in the food budget-I don’t have to spend it just because it is in my allowance. Hmm. As to the car-I told him I was willing to forgo it while his other wife is here with the kids-I can rearrange my work schedule and use taxi, but he thinks it is really necessary in this town-and to a certain extent it is. Especially in the summer when the temperatures soar, regularly, to 130F. I will remind him though that I am willing to forgo it and explain in practical ways how we can make it work. I would like to lessen the stress and now it is a big one as his boss just told him that he may be laid off in a couple of months (which is stupid, and which he ALWAYS is telling him, just stressing him out more. This has been a constant refrain from said boss since he started here. This time though, H. is looking for other work out of town (Jeddah!). We will see what Allah has in store to bless us with or test us with.

    H. doesn’t like talking about money, but you know, it does come up-it has to. I would like to say we had enough that I never had to worry my pretty little head about it, but while it is adequate, we live in the richest and one of the most expensive cities in the world. The Qataris are rich, we just work for themhappy But rents are still many times higher, food is, gas has even almost doubled since I moved here(1.5 years). Clothes! ouch.

    I will ask him about the meatless. We do avoid going out alot-he says he prefers my cooking, but I think he is nicely trying to economize as we are still working on the bit about feeding himhappy

  • khadijah z

    May 3, 2011

    @ Alya whats up on your end okhti? Are you ok and what is going on as far as his realization on his lies and your position as his wife and the other wife? Please keep in mind your health for your self as it will effect your baby plz take care ok

  • Alya

    May 2, 2011

    Nura subhanallah I so wish my husband took care of me like that.

  • khadijah z

    May 2, 2011

    @ huda, nura all okhti’s well i asked him what the others had said when he asked them he said they all agreed to it with a look of discontent over my big fat NOPE, NO WAY NO HOW NEVER NOTTTT, and i just could not help myself or hold back laughing

    I told him aaaaaaaaa!! yeah right you mean like the fact the 1st lives across the street from the 2nd and 3rd and watches there houses like a hawk when your home 24/7 and its there nights just to fight to you about how early your getting home and staying to them later or brought them bread and not her even she did not ask him for it laughing
    Or
    the 2nd stating your buying meats and stuff for the 3rd and no one else when in fact it is her brother buying it hee hee
    OR
    How about when HE said we were getting Married and they all agreed then on our wedding day the 3rd ran away for 3 weeks to her sister to try and stop the marriage till he told her it was consummated and would be no divorce and he was not coming again to beg her to come home if she wanted a divorce then so be it but he wanted to see his kids winking
    OR
    how the 2nd keeps asking why i dont leave since i have no kids and he has no money winking
    OR
    even how his 1st, his mom and his aunts love to gossip stating my name, money haram and his name all in the same conversations and looking me up and down and thinking im not understanding a dam thing

    and then there is the child who lies and try to make problems to get her dad to divorce all his wives but her mom and the crap goes on and on like a firkin 10 ring circus

    what better way to weed all out put them all in the same home and let them either kill each other or cause his death from the fights, threats and stress
    hell i still remember when the 3rd was pregnant with her last child as she sat wining of how the 2nd left her to ride the bus alone for 5 blocks to the Masjid for eid wail sherif sat telling her well what did you want me to do huh? i was in the masjid till fajir ran home to khadijah cos its her day took a shower and made it to eid salat so am i suppose to beat her bcos you were not out there and she did not want to be late or wait or maybe not go with you? Am i supposed to divorce her for your winning just bcos you had to come 5 blocks alone with the boys? And of course he stated that last eid was also mine and i dressed and walked to the masjid they lived by which was more then 15 blocks from my house cos was no bus going there, alone bcos she did not wake him on time to come and get me, should he of divorced or beat you for that … i just stayed quiet laughing
    so i said to him:
    GO AHEAD TRY HARDER AND SEE WHAT YOU GET MORE BALD DEAF AND DEAD BUT NOT ME WHY??? BCOS ILL NOT GO ALONG WITH IT I LIKE MY PRIVACY, QUIET AND SANITY winking

  • Ana

    May 2, 2011

    Can we live together?

    Look! It ain’t gonna happen. not listening No way. No how. I’d have to be deaf, dumb, blind, crippled and crazy to agree to something like that. Unless, she has no place to go but the side of the road, she can’t come live with us. She best find the homeless shelter. Now, it’s all speculation, as Allah knows best. But, I know myself.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    May 2, 2011

    Having more than one wife definitely takes a toll on a man, just as being in a polygamous marriage takes a toll on a woman (more so a first wife). I know some people don’t want us to differentiate, but there are times when we must, as there are differences.

    It’s a blessing for us women to be able to survive it without becoming old and haggard before our time. I think many of the women here noted a change in their husbands since they became polygamous. It’s inevitable, with more than one family to be responsible for.

    I often wonder if Alex has so much gray, resulting from the stress of our lifestyle or it’s just natural. Men of his birth sign are known to age prematurely with gray hair, balding and stuff. When I met him, he looked much older though. Everyone could tell he wasn’t happy. I took him to meet my family. By time we married he was looking really good, happy, healthy and looked younger. Although he’s eight years younger than me, no one would ever know it. Those who know it, find it hard to believe happy In a nasty text to Carolinah, I stated, “I had to clean him up after he left you.” laughing When I met and married him, he never, ever discussed her other than when I asked about relationships he had besides his wife. His conversations were always about his ex-wife, her children and her grandchildren (she was 10 years older than Alex).

    Most polygamous men that we hear about on the blog are making sincere efforts to care for the families in a just and fair manner. They have schedules and care for the wives monetarily. They have good characteristics, are kind, supportive and responsible. The ones that keep the secret wives are the ones suspect in character.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Cindy

    May 2, 2011

    Asa Mohummad Yaeseen…. In regard toall wives living in one house. I could definetly understand how it would make the husbands life easier but the wives….I don’t know. There is no way I could live with another women….hey even my mom makes me crazy and I actually love her ha! ha!. I think my definition of “crazy” is to delibretly put yourself in a situation that you know in your soul you would not be able to handle or accept. But that is only my opinion happy

  • Cindy

    May 2, 2011

    Asa Huda…Point well made!

  • Cindy

    May 2, 2011

    Asa Nura, Mashallah he is doing it all to the best of his abilities both islamically and financially….Allah will provide for you both. Do not burden yourself with these worries but be a “shoulder” for him to lean on if and when he needs it..Hugshappy

  • huda

    May 2, 2011

    Asalaam Alaikum

    Nura, I don’t think it only Okhti Khadijah’s husband should careful of what he asks for, this applies to all husbands, including H. No matter what they say and what they do, they will feel the ‘pinch’ of polygamy sooner or later and will start to grow grey before their time.

    While I was reading a book about this life and being happy (it wasn’t particularly discussing polygamy) I read some interesting words which I think are quite appropriate for men contemplating taking another wife:

    “..be moderate in your life and affairs, count the blessings Allah has bestowed upon you, enjoy what you already have before you seek to disturb your contentment in hope of something better…”

    What do you think brother Mohummud Yaaseen?

    much salaam

  • khadijah z

    May 2, 2011

    @ Ana sorry rubbing his belly wail he was snoring so loud he woke up the birds out side in the middle of the night, heck even the mosquitoes came flying in i got all ate up too sad

  • khadijah z

    May 2, 2011

    @ Nura okhti i think it is an Egyptian thing actually to be either so strong or so weak laughing and do it all wail they are young and suffer later.
    Sheirf was like that when we first married he had his own shipping and freight business and he would literally pack up much of the things into crates attached to skids, and once he did in my flat so we could share more time together.
    However when he went to take it out he literally asked me to help steady it wail he lifted it part way onto his back my skin crawled in aspiration of him collapsing under it but ill be dammed eh carried it down the street and hired a truck to carry it to the air port scared the crap out of me cos the next time he was home i kept waiting for him to tell me his rear bung hole laughing hurt or his stomach due to hemorrhoids or a hernia laughing but no way he was ready and willing winking

    now he complains of every thing hurting i mean every thing pls pull my head my neck hurts, or my legs they hurt! From walking on his back to knuckling the arches of his big flat troll feet …. yes i love him that much to beat on his feet or crush his back laughing

    funny how some one can always be in so much pain that they still have no pain in other factors if i say ok then well ill not bother you tonight ok … winking reply is… did i say not to bother me laughing

    @ Ana okhti the belly rub wow i was shocked how abd it was this trip home but rubbing his belly wail he was sleep so hard he didn’t hear him self and i sure as hell didnt get more then a hour of sleep!! sad it kinda kooled it down till i feel asleep and stop rubbing so it would start again i should of video taped it for him loool on my new phone tho the camera on this phone is crap and it seems in B/W wail my lil broken ph worked a lot better and was in color sad

  • khadijah z

    May 2, 2011

    @ Nura okhti i hope ur feeling much better from your fall, Allah protect yo always, Ameen

    Well about the things he is trying to do im sure you have things you really need and then there are the things that are less important to be done in a quick time, to me hajj is more important then a car, esp if your not living so far from work or the market and so on. trivial expenses like meat every night or special meals instead of thrift and cheap yet can still be tasty and healthy, not saying you over spend okhti just a few hints on how i had to reroute money when my husbands business went under. Not to mention when i was raising my kids alone. some things are really needed and some are less then that. Take the most important then later on the rest as it comes along winking

  • Nura

    May 2, 2011

    Khadijah’s husband needs to be careful of what he asks for!

    I am concerned for H. as I think the stress of two families is getting to him as he is planning for her long summer visit which means 2 apartments and 2 cars (last time I had a rental and a crap interim apartment, this time I will have a proper place and he is right now getting another car).
    On one hand, I know it is a stress, on the other hand, I am not the one that started this and he knew or should have known, what this would involve. Not just the money, but the time, the demands (last week’s tumble has made for a lot of doctor appointments and inconvenience, my ex moved and we had to get some appliances, egyptian nationality business, visa/RP stuff,my kids left town and I know that at some point it will get to me and I will lose it. Then there will be the travel to the states, taking us all to KSA for Umrah, etc. etc. etc.. . . just all of it. How do I unburden him when I don’t have the $$ to do so and I actually need him for this stuff? The man won’t even let me carry the groceries when he is around. I am afraid he is going to die off from just “taking care of” me-and the rest of his family is probably giving him all kinds of stresses that he doesn’t even let me in on (thanks!). How do we help our husbands when they are really busy proving they are the ones taking care of US???

    Today he lifted a boxed table into the truck that was so heavy it took two grown (big) guys to do it when we first bought it. He is really physically strong for not being particularly tall or muscle bound (He is built very sturdy, but STILL). I know he is spiritually strong, but he is only human and has no supernatural abilities.

    I am exhausted just watching him do his thing. Forget trying to keep up. I feel like a little kid asking to ‘help’ his dad shovel a hole-Dad has big shovel, kid is working on the side with the big spoon that he got from mommy. . . .What can I do for him?. The man is an overachiever, but even they wear out. I don’t want him to wear out!!! Yes, I am selfish, I liked him a lot long before I decided to love him as a husband.

  • khadijah z

    May 2, 2011

    @ Mohummud Yaaseen yes your right he had them all in separate small houses or rooms but not connected to each other, however many do go for all in one home. tho my husband has expressed it a few times to build a home with 2 rooms of the kids boys and girls separated but of all wives together and then separate sitting room and kitchen and then separate living quarters for all wives…… he has high exceptions laughing

    My self i have already stated to him as they call all day and all night to get him to leave who he is with to go to them or with out even a valid reason to call if only to say why didn’t you call me today even you said you would. laughing
    this point i made to him was they will no longer have the need to call, only come to the door, or keep him from the room of the wife of that night, or send the kids banging and yelling at the door, of which ill not be there as i request my privacy away from there schemes winking

  • Mohummud Yaaseen

    May 2, 2011

    AA sisters

    about having all the wives in one house? It wasn’t practiced like that by the Prophet S.A.W but then his houses were practically more like rooms, it was very small.

    I don’t know of any prohibition of having all your wives in one house and just separate bed rooms. It would be extremely difficult. I think the only way I would be able to make polygamy work is if I had several monogamous relationships at the same time. In other words, I’d want to be with one wife at one time (and not think about the other wives at that time) and with another wife at another time. If I had several wives with me all at the same time it would be extremely difficult.

    I usually tease my wife and say to her if I had two wives my schedule would consist of three nights, one night for her, one night for the other wife, and one night for myself.

  • khadijah z

    May 2, 2011

    @ Jenny okhti i pray your well and the bambinas also laughing
    Id like to know what regards that book has for a man and his wives who all live in the same home with only separate sleeping quarters as this happens a lot in many countries even the US, and some thing my husband hopes to do some day.
    As for inviting jealousness within the wives, Quran states we have it anyway! All women do in different levels we all get jealous by even a woman looking at, talking to or service to our husbands with a smile in a restaurant….. winking
    Shataan can only get in to what we allow him to invade our hearts and minds but i feel as long as we have strong deen or even just a strong moral values of our selves.
    There is also a limit of knowledge between each household. what i mean is you will no if one is ill, or pregnant, going to visit there family but you will not know there sex habits or of intimate details.
    In a family you no even as much as what your brothers wife fixed him for a special meal as a welcome home dish, but in a co wife environment they will not tell you this only thing you get out of them is when your having a meal together and she states “he likes this dish” i fixed for you, but you no already when you told him your going to ask her for the recipe cos she stated he likes it so much that he told you he dose not like it, just dose not want to upset her and dose the same in regards of all. In the same aspect he tells you he likes every thing you cook, you no its not so just by how eats or scarfs it down and runs for more, or it just did not come out as you hoped and tasted like crap to you laughing

  • khadijah z

    May 2, 2011

    @ Ana okhti he will be home till the 14th or 19th then back to Saudi. He is currently working on a business with my wali, for getting work placements for other people esp Egyptians, like a temp service of placements.

    He then will go back to Saudi where he is working on a partnership to one of his friends there in hotels and apt rentals for groups and family’s who want a more home effect in there travels for ummrah and Hajj. This is the same person who got him a work visa.
    Well he also stated to me he felt the others would refuse group ventures to go to the sea shore or a day in the fun park, so again i dont no what to make of them or this life in general. even if 2 by 2 it would give the kids at least 2 trips out since im very sure as i told him he will not be home for either Ramadan or Eid and will not return until after Hajj and still would miss Eid then also.

    I’ll not say im happy, but glad he was here and i made sure to let him know the effects of how he was leaving me and did which his face was was of person who realized his wrong and failure once hit with facts of proof in my stating to him of his neglect on me. sad

    of course he has made many promises of fixing my visa tomorrow translating our marriage agreement as proof why im here for over 6yrs, to use when i go to the embassy to try and get my passport updated. I have however decided that if they give me any grief i may end up telling them to take my passport and citizenship and shove it and get a lawyer, to see how to fix our marriage here or in Saudi to be valid to be able to get my spousal visa or a dual citizenship.

    I reminded him about fixing the problem between myself and the 1st and his daughter as part of the group gathering and as i stated to him of his daughter.
    She needs to be aware she has 3 mothers or he has 4 wives and that her continuing to try and force us to leave or make him divorce us will only cause her the grief, not us.
    I feel sorry for Sherif where his daughter is as he has promised her a lap top for getting 80% or over in her exams, but i stated how he keeps rewarding her with phones and such, on her education but what about her Islam and her deen at 15yr refuses to pray or lies and makes excuses.
    I also stated where there mothers are concerned it is there responsibility to help them learn and even teach them it did not end once the nursing stopped sad according to him all they do is sit on there ass yelling at them with no effect or dont do anything for them it at all. sad

  • Jenny

    May 2, 2011

    @ Cindy,

    I cracked up when I read your post. It is true, the MIL rules everyone but the son. happy

    Yes, she rules the house with an iron fist. Actually, she tried it with me being at the other end of the world. I just tell her yes and leave it at that. Hubs knows how I am and he doesn’t expect me to be her subject. Honestly Cindy, we could never live in the same house as I am someone that cannot be bossed around. I would lose my mind if that happened! You are probably right, about her ruling the neighborhood.

    My husband’s family is of the Butt tribe, which is a high class and believe me, my husband was a spoiled brat. He left Pakistan when he was 12 and grew up in England. Once in a blue moon he went back to Pakistan for a visit. He doesn’t have that Pakistani “mindset” that I see with the other people I know. He understands it and explains it to me.

    You should have seen the look on his face when I told him he would be doing diaper patrol! His face turned ashened and said he never changed a diaper in his life. He had a panicked look on his face! I smiled and told him, “Honey, welcome to America! You have been liberated!” happy He’s looking forward to it now because he has never seen babies (even his own) or even been around a pregnant woman. He sleeps with his hand on my stomach and is looking at this whole pregnancy through child eyes. He never heard of an ultrasound and you should have seen his face the first time he saw the babies!

  • Cindy

    May 2, 2011

    Asa ladies….Just some info. In pakistan there is always someone else in a more difficult situation than the people they work for so even if you live in a “Village ” as my husbands family does they will have “maids” ( I actually really dislike the term maid as I was one when I was much younger and putting myself through school). These women will work for literally pennies a day or or a daily food stypened in which to feed their kids. Needless to say I was always handing them rupies even for the smallest of things but in reality they usually bust their A$$ for whatever they earn. Believe me my MIL was not a happy camper about it. People in pakistan especially the women are very “Class conscience” if you know what I mean. And just so you know if your mrs. P has a MIL anything like my MIL than “WOE TO HER” she is the ruler of her house, her neighbors house and just because of her age alone …half the village. The only people she doesn’t seem to have any control are her sons…..LOL

  • Nura

    May 2, 2011

    Take care of yourself!!!! I have had weird sinus things going on since I banged my face into the floor-doc said it is just swelling, but the actual infections can be miserable. Give your babies a rub and tell them hi for mehappy

  • Nura

    May 2, 2011

    Jenny, here in the MENA region, maids are very cheap and unfortunately, they get little respect, so the maid thing would be a bigger insult than in the states, where maids have more rights, pay and respect. If there is any doubt about how much work Mrs. P is having to do in Pakistan, if I were you, I might insist that she HAVE a maid. Taking care of a home and a MIL and kids is hard, especially in those conditions(which even if they are in the nicest house in Pakistan, it likely isn’t as nice and convenient as your flat in NYC. Seriously, it would be nothing to you and might mean a lot for Mrs. P, MIL and the kids. Especially Mrs. P. Remember we should not want anything for ourselves that we would not want for another-if you lived in Pakistan, you would have a maid. . .just something to think about. I only bring this up as my husband said when/if I get pregnant or if I want one, I can have a maid. Well, not now, thanks, but with the dust and ironing-hmmm. I could see ithappy I live in a modern place with most mod cons-except d/W. I’m ithappy most westerners have the DW and the maidhappy

  • Jenny

    May 2, 2011

    @ Nura,

    My bad! Sorry, bad choice of words. I didn’t mean it the way it sounded. Forgive me! Hubs warned me that she will be so welcoming to me, cooking for me, fussing over me, etc… I have to get used to that. I don’t mean any disrespect. I really do think I will like her and we may become friends. I guess her and I have different roles in our husbands life (Now, how is that for acceptance?) and I have come to accept it.

    As far as the trip to Pakistan, that is off the table for the near future. I can’t say I’m broken up about that. Sorry, just being honest!

    Bambinos are fine. I have a kidney and sinus infection. That is part of the reason I’m still up (it’s 2:30 a.m.). My nose is stuffed and I can’t breathe. Hubs is sick with a sinus infection too, but he’s just snoring away!

    I am so excited about your appointment! I want all the details, Sister, when you come back! I’ll be praying and cheering for you! happy

  • Nura

    May 2, 2011

    Jenny! PLEASE do not think of Mrs. P as the maid, not even for a minute, not even in the deepest part of you. She is the woman of the house and will likely be caring for you like your mom and grandmother cared for their guests-exactly the same way, making sure that all of their needs are met. That is not the job of a maid, that is the job of a homemaker. Do not ever, EVER think of her as “the maid”. She is a mother, a wife and takes care of her home. I don’t know if you have a maid in your home-or if she does, but when you are doing things around the house, that doesn’t make you any less than when you are doing things at work, and it sure doesn’t make you a maid. I clean my own toilets-so do most people. We care for our guests, we do our laundry and make the food. That is not being the maid. A maid is paid a wage and has no vested interest in her guests or the home. The difference between owner and employee. Mom and nanny. You need to remember that, my sister.

    Take good care of the bambinos. I think of you all daily. Tomorrow is my doctor appt!!

  • Nura

    May 2, 2011

    Dear Ana,

    I am close enough to my husbands other wife to ask after her and the boys, to be told if she is sick or having a hard time with family(she has lost a few family members lately-not really close, but people she loves and her parents were ill), but I am not given excruciating details about things I don’t need to know about. We both know of each others health issues, and she had to see me after my injuries and make sure I was ok-she is a doctor, so she asked more technical questions than some of my friends. At the same time, there are distinctly private things between the two of them that are none of my business and my husband doesn’t bring them up to me and I am happy with that.

    My husband did a doofy thing the other day and I don’t know how to tell him HOW doofy it was. So, this store has a sale, you get vouchers for the clearance sale, later. We went to the store with very little left and there were some white coats. Now I need a coat. Wasn’t thrilled with the color or style, but lets face it-I will wear twice a year at most here. I don’t care that much. There was a medium for me. Well, he had all those free vouchers and there were a LOT of the white coats-all in size 20+ other than the one I got. So, he thinks he needs to get one for Mrs. #1. I really didn’t want to be petty or act like I thought she would be, but seriously folks. We don’t live in the same place full time, but half time-it adds up and I don’t want to go for a walk on the Corniche with her and the boys in matching coats. Plus, he got her a size MUCH too big. I am keeping silent and hoping she knows how to tell him how messed up that it ishappy

    In this case, I am glad we are friendly, because if push comes to shove (not literally!) we can laugh about it. And I know he thinks of her and the boys all the time-I do a lot also. We will be going to Umrah together (if we go-there are job issues here now) and stuck in the car for two days of driving at least, so she is a reality such that I can’t just pretend she doesn’t exist. And she is really why I am with him now anyway, directly AND indirectly, so there is not getting away from her realityhappy I am blessed with her in many ways so I just try to keep it cool about when he calls and how he talks about her.Before I knew anything else about him other than he was egyptian, I knew he loved her, so that informs a LOT of my feelings about her. He is no dummy, I respect his choices (hey, I am one of them, also)and I like their kids.

  • Jenny

    May 2, 2011

    You know Ana, I’ve accepted that he loves her. To be honest, I would be disappointed in him if he didn’t. I know she has made a lot of sacrifices, sacrifices I don’t know if I could have made. If he said anything bad about her (even though the naughty side of me would have liked that) I would wonder if he ever said anything bad about me? Again, I cannot say anything bad about her. Actually, she is someone I am learning from in a way. I see how she is being a good Muslim. While we never spoke, her family is very warm and caring to me. She has never interfered in our marriage or said a bad or unkind word to me or Hubs.

    I see how he treats her, even though it goes through his mother. He gives her the utmost respect and makes sure she is comfortable, although, they do not live with each other any longer.

    I’ve also used my own analogy about having more than one child. I’m really okay that he loves her. He loves each of us differently. Seriously, I’m okay with it and I will not let this drive me insane anymore.

    If we had this talk six months ago, I would have thought this was nuts. I guess this is what I call growth.

  • Jenny

    May 2, 2011

    @ Ana,

    I know none of these things are easy, we can only try. Going against human nature is hard — at least for me. A journey of a thousand miles starts with the first step! happy

    Yes, I do think of Allah when those moments hit, and it is getting easier. Whenever Shaitan whispers in my ear, I think about Allah and that I am exactly where he put me.

    The book is a good one, better than I expected. I think the better parts were the back, the practical letters. It put things into perspective.

    Really, how bad is our life in polygamy? One woman mentioned we could have such bigger problems. I agree. It’s funny Ana, whenever I get into my funk, Allah puts this man in my path. Whenever I run into this man (which is when I’m in a funk), he has such a big smile and talks to everyone on the street. What is so special about this man? He’s in a wheelchair, has no arms and no legs. He has to maneuver his wheelchair with a straw and his mouth. If Allah can give this man the strength to see the beauty in life, who am I to complain about my life. My problems seem so petty! I wonder if he would want to trade problems with me?

    Like I said, I stopped thinking about this whole polygamy issue. I’m not letting it upset me anymore. I know I don’t want to live without my husband. Period. So, its deal with it or move on and I don’t want to move on. The situation is what it is and I can only thank Allah the situation is what it is, because it could be a whole lot more trying on my faith. And really, when I boil the issue down, the meat of the topic is what do I have to be upset about? I truly cannot think of one thing. I feel like a dog chasing his own tail. Really, the entire thing is getting ridiculous and I’m really tired of the Shaitan. I wonder if the Shaitan is hitting Ms.P the way it is me? See, there I go again! happy It’s amazing my husband still has any sanity left! I’m driving myself crazy and driving him crazy too!

    The cell phone isn’t an issue for me as they don’t talk. I’ll tell you my snooping episode. I haven’t done anything like this is years, but when we first married, I was snooping at his passport to see if he was telling me the truth about the time he spent with her. I felt so bad when I saw my husband was telling me the truth. Not only did I go through his U.S. passport, but I went through his Pakistani one too. I felt like pond scum afterward. He has no idea I did this and he would probably be disappointed in me if he ever found out, although, I think he would understand. Again, I was listening to the Shaitan, putting my nose where it didn’t belong. I was very lucky my nose wasn’t bitten off. Can you imagine the tangent I would have been on if I found an extra trip or the times didn’t align? Even though I wasn’t Muslim then, Allah protected me.

    Ana, I am so tired of being driven crazy! And I don’t even have half the problems as other polygamous marriages. I guess I’ve come to that point in the book where you start to self-grow, cling to Allah and accept what is. I am glad to have gotten to that stage, but I backslide, I guess as we all do. There comes a time you just have to accept because analyzing will drive you crazy (at least it did me)!

  • Ana

    May 2, 2011

    Be careful, Jenny. Perhaps you need to heed your own advice. You said the wives say she’s not pretty enough; she’s not this and she’s not that and blah, blah, blah. BUT, HE LOVES HER!

    Do you hear yourself? He loves you so much. He doesn’t love her. He’s only with her because she takes care of his mother. He doesn’t talk to her, haven’t talked to her in years, blah, blah, blah. You sound just like the rest of us.

    Your husband loves his first wife, Jenny, even though all those other things may exist. HE LOVES HER! He loves her because she takes care of his mother and his children and she doesn’t give him any problems and because, as you said, she’s a good Muslim and he doesn’t speak badly about his wife that he loves, just like he loves you.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    May 2, 2011

    The author said concern ourselves about our own relationship, and not our husband’s other. Easier said than done. Did she say concern ourselves about Allah and then we will stay out of the other relationship? When thoughts of the other relationship comes to mind, we shouldn’t go off and start focusing on our own; we should remember Allah. Allah says remembrance of Him is the greatest thing in life without a doubt.

    Allah didn’t tell us to remember our husbands or anyone else. He said remember HIM. The author is right when she said love our husbands modestly, love them less. If we love our husbands more than we love Allah, there’s a problem. If our husbands are on our minds more than Allah is on our minds, there is a problem. Allah says don’t remember him intermittently. He wants us to remember HIM ALL THE TIME.

    It’s what is making my me happier and my life better each day. Finally I’m beginning to live what I’ve learned. When thoughts of Alex or Carolinah enter my mind, I immediately try to replace them with thoughts of Allah. I try to remember Allah all day long, zikring. I want to reach the point where I feel badly about not remembering Him. Insha Allah, I may write a post on this topic. I read the book, “From Monogamy to Polygamy”, a couple years ago. Perhaps Allah will allow me to read it again happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    May 2, 2011

    Jenny, there are some things you mentioned from the book that are interesting. The author said don’t snoop in the cell phone, or eavesdrop. Concern ourselves with our own marriage, so forth and so on. It sounds good. Most of us try to do that without her or anyone else having to tell us. We know right from wrong. We learned as children that it’s not right to snoop. Satan has a job to do. None of us are perfect, so there are going to be times that we listen to Satan. That’s where the purification process comes in. That when we ask Allah for forgiveness, repent and make our intention not to do it again. Allah tells us to seek his forgiveness time and again in the Quran. There has to be something we do that we need to ask forgiveness for.

    You indicated the author said don’t go in his cell phone because what we hear may hurt us. Most of us don’t care about getting hurt, we want to know what was said, what’s going on etc.

    When I was on vacation and in the bathroom, and my eyes caught glimpse of Alex’s cell phone on the counter, what stopped me from not picking it up and going in it was not fear of getting hurt. It was fear of Allah. I’ve messed with his cell phone too many times, asked Allah’s forgiveness every single time and made my intention not to do it again. I believed that eventually Allah’s punishment will come down on me; He would bring down His wrath on me. I’ve had enough warnings. That is what made me not touch the cell phone that day, not fear of being hurt, or fear of getting caught by Alex, or knowing it was wrong – it was fear of Allah.

    We all know what’s wrong and right. Don’t be sarcastic; don’t spy; don’t call each other offensive nicknames, etc. Allah tells us all that in Quran. We all sin and the important thing is that we work on purifying our souls and getting close to Him. There’s an Iyat that Allah says he will remove the evils in a Believer. I don’t know the Iyat off the top of my head. We all have evil in us, even Believers.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Jenny

    May 1, 2011

    Just wanted to add one other point. It seems a big stumbling block is how can the husbands love another woman. “She’s not as pretty as me, He says I’m his favorite, He only married her because he felt sorry for her, blah, blah, blah.” This is another great spot for the Shaitan!

    If the husband married her, trust me, he loves her. But that doesn’t mean he loves you less. Think of a parent who has a child. They love the child, then they have another. Do they love the first child any less? No, they love both children.

    The Shaitans whispers comes into play at that spot and by having all this talk with the husband about the other wife, you’re only inviting the Shaitan into your head. Honestly, I really don’t want to know. I just don’t want to hurt. If you don’t want to hurt, don’t be nosy, don’t pick up that cell phone, etc… The Prophet (pbuh) did not like snoops, he equated them to hippocrits (If you want the cite, I’ll give it to you tomorrow). That is good enough for me! happy

  • Jenny

    May 1, 2011

    @ Ana,

    I think you have raised a few very good points. Agreeing with you, I feel it is a very gray area with no right or wrong. However, after reading that book (along with others), by thinking or speaking about the other household, you are inviting feelings of jealousy and the Shaitan the opportunity to do his work. Additionally, (according to the book) we should be focusing on our own relationship with our husband and not thinking of the other, because do we really want her thinking about our relationship? Again, this was the consensus of the books I’ve read. They’ve also discussed loving your husband less (moderately). For me, I do not know if that is possible.

    Now, for real life and my thoughts. There is some truth in what the book said. The one time I probed my husband about Ms.P. I guess I expected him to say horrible things about her and how perfect I was. It hurt to hear him say good things about her. No, he doesn’t love her and that is why he isn’t in Pakistan. You know the routine…arranged marriage, he stood by her, she takes care of his mother, raises the children, he supports her financially, blah, blah, blah…

    I am curious to know what she is thinking now that she knows we are married. Again, curiosity killed the cat. I wanted to ask Hubs, but sometimes things pop out in coversation…like when we go to Pakistan, we will be in the same house (I guess she will be like the maid? Literally, I’m not kidding!). At least Pakistan hasn’t come up in a long time, Alhumdililah! happy

    So, the $64,000 question in my mind is what is she thinking? Does she love this man she hasn’t had relations with in over 10 years? Maybe they view love differently than me, which is a very strong possiblity after reading these books telling women to love their husbands less.

    Her family (which is also Hub’s family, his mother’s brother) reaches out to me all the time, but never her. Her brother is close with me too. Actually, I am in a bit of shock of the acceptance I get from them. When I get mad at hubs and throw out my favorite line, “Get your bit*ch in Pakistan to do it!”, he responded that she doesn’t bother me. What does that mean? I want to ask, but I keep my mouth shut.

    So, yes, this curiosity thing can really rouse up the Shaitan to whisper in my ear. I couldn’t imagine if he was going there and actually having a marriage. Honestly, that would break me…or maybe not. It is what it is. Allah knows best.

    Touching the cell phone, listening in on conversations and such is an invitation to get hurt, which is why I never insisted that Hubs can now make his phone calls in my presence again (even though they all call to talk to me). I think I scared him with my last outburst he thinks its best to not rock the boat (and that’s just talking to his mother and kids).

    Then I try to look at things from her perspective. I wonder what she thinks of me and our marriage? Am I the homewrecker? Is she breathing a sigh of relief? Maybe she is doing what the book said and not think of me at all and when I pop in her mind, she thinks of Allah? I’m not that perfect yet. sad Who knows, maybe she don’t care. Again, I’ll make my brain cramp if I try to figure this out!

    So, in the end, I decided to hang up this whole polygamy thing. I mentioned the test I went through a few weeks back and the things Hubs said and did, no mortal man would have done what he did. The devotion that man has for me goes beyond words. It got reinforced when I spoke to a customer yesterday and she told me how Hubs face lit up when he talked about his wife, Jenny. The entire trip, all he did was talk about me. I know these things, but sometimes, I guess I just need to hear them.

    So, whatever happens, happens. Hubs and I are married and we are stuck together like glue. We live together and I guess Ms.P knows that will never change. He wasn’t hers before I met him. I really can deal with her. I will admit she is not a bad person, actually a very good one. I may want him to say bad things about her, I guess to secure my position a bit more in my head. That’s where all these problems are coming from — my head. So, I’m turning it off. I’m taking the books advice and not asking any more questions. I guess if I ever make it to Pakistan, I’ll see the situation myself with my own eyes. If Allah wants something revealed to me, he doesn’t need my help to reveal it.

    Another important point, but looking at the examples of the Mothers of Islam, we didn’t see them running around snooping on each other. Some of them were friends and did what was best for the family unit. I think Hubs wants me to think of everyone as a “family unit.” He doesn’t want me to hate her, which I really don’t, and she thinks of me as her sister.

    When this jealousy bug hits(and I have yet to figure out what I am jealous of! If you can figure out why, please tell me!), I am just thinking about the devotion and love my husband put on the line when I was going through my business test. I am trying to draw nearer to Allah when those moments strike as well. I do know that Ms.P is a very faithful Muslim too.

  • Ana

    May 1, 2011

    @Jenny,

    You mentioned in a few posts that it’s not the wife’s business to know what’s going on in the other house between the husband and the other wife. I was giving it some thought and wonder whether it is or it is not. Who is to say?

    For instance, some ladies here have stated their husband speak to them about the other wife and what’s going on in the other household. As a husband and wife, they should be able to discuss anything or shouldn’t they? Then there are the wives that don’t want to know what’s going on, whether the husband wants to tell them or not. Some say it’s not right he can’t bring his baggage to you; where else is he going to take it? There are some wives that are inquisitive and want to know; they ask questions.

    I was just wondering. Is there really a right or wrong when it comes to knowing what’s happening with the other family? Should it be what works best for the parties involved?

    I don’t ask Alex any questions about Carolinah and her household and I don’t want him to talk to me about them. If he’s stressed out, tough! People talk about what means most to them. I don’t want to be his ear because he’s hurt and upset about her. I don’t want to get all jealous, envious and worked up over what going on with her either, if it’s something good. When we were on vacation, he started to tell me how much she loves him. I nipped it right in the bud. Good for her. I don’t care. I don’t think it’s wrong. The only time I discuss anything to do with her is when there’s a schedule issue or he does something that I don’t like, such as bring food from her home into mine, or something like that. I’ll say there are non-Muslims in her household, eating non-halal food and I don’t want anything coming from that unclean house, into mine ( except him and his clothes.) But, he’s not to come home and start having a general conversation about her with me. It’s not that kind of party winking

    When more than one woman is married to the same man, their business has to intertwine sometimes; I would think. It’s not black and white. What do you all think?

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    May 1, 2011

    Okhti K (Khadijah), yeap, you’re back to your old jovial, jocular self again laughing It’s good to hear you so happy!!! I know it was sure good to see him. Does he know how long he’ll be home? Insha Allah, you’ll get your papers straightened out very soon. Just continue to do you have to do to expedite the process and continue to be patient. Dealing with those matters can be trying.

    I like rubbing Alex’s big tummy while laying in bed in his arms, watching TV. He’s been working out hard lately, especially since we worked out fiercely on vacation. We got a good fresh start. I’m continuing the workout, as well. I’ll probably do a workout shortly. You and Sherif could do some sit ups and ab work together. It’s what Alex and I do. I HATE those ab exercises, but they work.

    Yeah, Cindy, we don’t care what you wear. Okhti K is right; we can’t see you. Just don’t tell us that you’re naked laughing

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    May 1, 2011

    Cindy, weird things happen sometimes with you posts. I just checked my email for the blog, which tells you that I don’t check my email very often. I found your post there. It’s from April 29th, at 7:17 p.m.. It came from your phone to the email and not the blog. The post was as follow:

    “ASA ANA
    I AM A FIRM BELIEVER that actions speak better than words”

    I guess you were wondering what happened to it.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • khadijah z

    May 1, 2011

    @ Cindy the page reads polygamy not dress codes, laughing anyway what you do is between yo and Allah not you and us, we all have our own beliefs and understandings of the books… so dont worry we cant see you anyway laughing

  • khadijah z

    May 1, 2011

    Asalaam Alaykum, Okhti’s I pray your all doing well happy

    ell sheirf was suppose to come home to day but due to the face he new how pissed i was he managed to get home yesterday, surprise!
    Of course after he had to fix his own dinner bcos he came right after Margrib and i had already eaten winking

    Talked and got yet again few things ironed out, of course he came baring gifts in a new phone similar to blackberry and a pain in the but to deal with, But Alhumduillah for all. will go to Cairo Tuesday to get some papers taken care of inshaAllah
    i asked him to make a group outing for all together to try and work on issues wail the kids ran around having fun, he passed as i guess the 2nd has not been able to keep her promise and he is borderline on divorcing her not to mention neither of the other 2 want to be around her i guess sad
    maybe i put my foot in my mouth and ill get stuck with her of course i no where my foot will go then! hee hee

    Anyway he say he know i was stressed over every thing of course that is where all his university studies in psychology come in to deal to his wives…..

    you can tell the new sit down job took its toll on him had a real big stomach all that bad food sitting and no where or a day off to get around…. they called him fat last time he was home sad
    who knows what they will call him now!! happy

  • Cindy

    May 1, 2011

    Something is going on with my space bar on my laptop….Sorry butat leastyouall do not have to “read between the lines” Ha!

  • Cindy

    May 1, 2011

    Asa ana, jenny and nura……I agree with all of your statements inthe context of whichthey were madehappy

  • Ana

    May 1, 2011

    Cindy, no one should judge you here about whether you cover or not. This is not the forum to debate the subject of hijab/covering. We could share here about how we dress, how we feel and think about it and that’s about it. We need to exercise caution in our discussions of it.

    You dress modestly, which is extremely important. In the United States, some probably wonder whether you’re Muslim by the way you dress alone or they see something is different about you, although your hair is not covered. Allah has made us all different, color, race, ethnicity, nationalities etc. He said, had he wanted us all to be the same, he would have made us that way. So, covering is an individual thing – whether some of the hair shows, whether it’s colorful headdress, the way it’s tied, whether it’s burkah etc.

    I only take offense when those snub their nose at me and others because I am not dressed as they are. You will get that from some of the women in burkah in the United States. They are all draped in black, face covered etc., and will turn their heads when they see you coming like you’re disgusting or they are better than you. That annoys me! That is why I say they are looking for an identity because we are not in Arabia. I’ve seen foreign Muslims dressed that way and they look very comfortable in their dress because it is their dress from their countries and they don’t snub their nose up at those in the United States that are dressed like American Muslims.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    May 1, 2011

    Nura, Wa Alaikum As Salaam!

    I agree with you 100%. Foreign and American sisters have often come up to me, and have given me the salaams. They were uncovered, but were Muslim. (Some American ones were “Muslim Sympathizers”; they weren’t Muslim, but knew how to give the salaams.) Had they not done that, I would never have known they were Muslim. It make sense that it’s the reason we should cover so we will be known as Muslims and there would be no doubt. It brings a feeling of unity and brotherhood to recognized those of our religion. There is a sense of a religious bond. I get the sense some foreign Muslims feel some shame when they see me covered in America and they aren’t. I sense it when I look at them.

    When I first became Muslim and began covering and dressing modestly, a Muslim brother that I knew advised me that I didn’t have to do it because of the type of profession I was in, but I didn’t listen, as I believed it was something Islam commanded me to do and I wanted to do.

    It took me a while to cover because of my profession. I had been working there for several years and it was a predominately male profession. I had the most difficult time making the transition and I felt badly about it. It seemed I was the only Muslim in the county in which I lived. Then, all of a sudden, everywhere I went there were women in hijab or with their hair covered that indicated they were Muslim. I believed it was a sign for me. Eventually, Allah gave me the courage to cover and after that I saw the sisters no more. IT WAS TRULY AMAZING.

    I could say for certain Carolinah is receiving no guidance about Islam. She is a loner and home body. We’re the same birth sign, so I know her like I know myself. I’m reserved and stay to myself. I communicate only with my Islamic family. I regularly converse with one of my biological sisters and my mom. All of you on the blog are my family. Alex can’t teach her anything, other than tell her to remember Allah and be patient. He said she doesn’t know what remember Allah means. I could understand it. She’d need someone to explain it to her that knows what it means. I don’t want to keep taking anything away from Alex, but he lacks a lot of knowledge about Islam. It’s not a priority for him. Advancing his career and knowing the worldly teachings of finance and economics etc. means more to him.

    I don’t know whether she wants to know anything about Islam. The number of times we texted, she never mentioned Islam. She would have to approach me if she wanted to know anything. We once had a cordial texted conversation. I should say I did, because she shared nothing, but listened. I spoke to her about polygamy and Islam and how I felt. She never asked a thing about Islam, mentioned it or polygamy – nothing. Well, so be it.

    Nura, I’m glad you wrote about covering and hijab. I found it very interesting and I appreciate it much.

    Much Salaam!

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Jenny

    May 1, 2011

    @ Cindy, I have a lot of duputas as well, and yes, they do slip off the head quite conviently.

    Living in a Pakistani community, I wear hijab. The women (only one paid me a compliment) don’t like that. On the other hand, EVERY Muslim man paid me a compliment as to how beautiful it is to see a woman in hijab, and a convert no less! I would like to clarify that when they said I looked beautiful, they did not mean that in a sexual way, but rather beauty in Islam. The people I see wearing hijabs in my community are the teenage or younger girls. I will tell you, I do turn a lot of heads when I am seen in hijab!

    My husband has never pressured me to do anything, even as far as becoming Muslim. He doesn’t say anything if I didn’t cover, but he is so swelled with pride when I go out covered. He always tells me how beautiful I look. He believes that the woman’s face should be covered, but he never asked me to do it. However, I see how happy it makes him when I do.

    Whenever I do something to deepen my faith in Islam, he draws so much closer to me than I ever thought possible. I get a tighter hug or something, but I marvel in the pride (or happiness) that he shows. One thing I respect him for (and I have a lot of respect for him) is he never pushed anything down my throat. When I ask him a question, that is when he will start to teach me, as he doesn’t want to be pushy.

    But, the Pakistani women do not like me wearing hijab. Who knows, I might be starting something they don’t like! winking

  • Cindy

    May 1, 2011

    Asa ladies….Being a muslim (in my opinion) is more than covering your hair. Is Allah first in your mind at all times? Do offer salat regulary? Are your intentions good and pure? Do you want for your sister (brother) what you want for yourself? Do you read the Koran? Are you modest (not just clothes)? I think you can tell that I too am not a hijabi….but I dress modestly and have since marrying my husband. I greet with salam my ankles/wrists do not show, I wear t-shirts under all of my clothes and so on….When I was in pakistan last month I noticed what the pakistani women consider “hijab” is is called a “DUPUTA” it is a long peice of matierial that is completly sheer in most cases and always always “slides” off the womens head no matter whos company she is in. I on the other hand wore a proper hijab as I find them to be easier to keep in place. ( do wear them when I go to the masjid and “muslim” gatherings. But on a dialy basis (except in pakistan) I do not wear them and do not consider my self any less of a muslim for not covering my hair. Islam and Allah is in our hearts and souls not our hijabs. Although I do greatly admire a women when I see her in hijab. ( This is just my opinion please do not take offense my friends)

  • nura

    May 1, 2011

    Salaam Alaykum,
    Ana, as to Carolinah not greeting you properly or covering properly-you might not believe how many women I know, even here in Qatar, that are Muslim and one would never know it, either from their dress or behavior. They are born Muslim and so far as they understand it, they believe it. Some have also made very conscious decisions about hijab that would not be in harmony, perhaps, with yours or mine. When I was new Muslim, I did not cover and I had NUMEROUS good, hijab wearing Muslims tell me not to rush into it (although at the time I was in some risk if I did so, . . . ). My friend in Quran class is my age, 40′s, and only wears hijab in class. I knew her outside of the class for a year and didn’t even know she WAS Muslim-she is married to a Christian, was born Muslim, is Turkish. . .yet, she loves Allah. She is not saying she will cover soon, but who knows? I have seen her wear clothes that we would not think modest in a westerner. My dear friend Noor is born Muslim in Kazackstan and didn’t even know the first thing about Islam till she came here (living with a boyfriend!) She actually had a reversion experience as she was so clueless. Not all Muslims, even in Arabia, will give signs-and Carolinah has clearly not been given proper instruction or guidance. What she feels in her mind and heart may be an intellectual or a heart acceptance of the 5 pillars without any deeper understanding. We don’t know. None of us knew Islam until someone took the time and care to show us. Maybe there is a 3rd party in your life that could show her? Having a devout co-wife would make a lot of your mental burdens with the marriage lighter and she may not be truly evil, but truly ignorant.

    Or she may be all that you are convinced of. I don’t know, but I have seen so many kinds of Muslims here and in Egypt that you would not believe. . . look at the issues in MENA region. Watch the news. Those Arabic women are for the most part-Muslim-even praying ones, but they are not covered and you see skin! We don’t wear a uniform and we don’t look in any way uniform.

    Salaams-I was a Muslim for weeks before anyone clued me in-and even then, I didn’t really understand because everyone tries to be ‘gentle’ and not overwhelm. Well, there are some things that just need to be said, right?

    Salaam alaykum,

    N.

  • Ana

    April 30, 2011

    Lynn, As Salaamu Alaikum! I hope you’re feeling better, and are having a good day happy

    It’s going to be a year for you soon. You’re doing really good, considering. Some of us have been going through it far longer, and still are where you are. It not an easy journey, but we can get to where we want to be. Just hang in there and try to remember Allah as much as possible – Zikr much.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Lynn

    April 30, 2011

    Jenny may I have the title of the book again ? I had problem finding it here.

  • Cindy

    April 30, 2011

    Inshallah….that is my plan,Thanx again for everyons advice.

  • Ana

    April 30, 2011

    Cindy, As Salaamu Alaikum!

    It sounds like he has his own little porn queen that he comes home to – dial a babe.

    You’ve spoken to her previously when she said she feared him because of the way he was speaking to her, which was weird, as he’s in the U.S and she’s in Pakistan. Nonetheless, maybe you’ll want to have a few words with her and see if you and she could come to an understanding. Let her know you saw her nasty pics and what she’s doing with your husband is unacceptable. Just a thought.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Cindy

    April 30, 2011

    Again you all have mademe see things ina different light and except that the marriage will take place ( I will ost when it does) you all have sound points. The relationship has been going on for 10yrs just so you all know.

  • Ana

    April 30, 2011

    Jenny, I wrote to Cindy before I read your most recent post to her. It made me smile, as we seem to be on the same page happy

    @Cindy, I don’t know what more to say about your husband and how he is behaving. It sounds as though it’s a marriage of convenience for him. I don’t want to sound insensitive or to hurt you, but if he rushes home to recline on the sofa with a phone to his ear and talk with her throughout the night, instead of spending quality time with you and your children, something seems wrong with that picture. On the other hand, things could be just fine between the two of you besides this phone problem. He could see it as a pastime. You and most others believe it’s Islamically incorrect, but he and she don’t. Like Huda said, sometimes we each need to re-evaluate our marriage.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    April 30, 2011

    Cindy,

    How does your husband respond when you speak to him about his conversations with her? Does he just blow you off or tell you to go fly a kite or something? How long has this been going on? How long did you say they have known each other? I want to say I read they grew up together, but I may be mistaken. I’ve been reading so many accounts of people’s lives that I begin to get them mixed up.

    You already set up a schedule of your days and hers, and advised him that he can’t speak with her on your days. He ignored it and spoke with her anyway.

    You indicated you were going to seek legal counsel and perhaps begin divorce proceedings. What did he say when you informed him of it?

    The thing is his relationship with her as it stands could go on for many more years; Allah knows best. He and she apparently do not care that they should not be communicating as they do. No one can make them care. So, if you’re unwilling to leave him alone about it, you may have to go through with the divorce. You’ll have to determine, if you could wait it out and live with things as they are or walk away. Perhaps, if he sees you’re serious about leaving, he’ll straighten up and fly right. Allah knows best.

    I agree that if he marries her it probably will not change things. He already knows she is a woman. He may have all kinds of super expectations of how she will be, and may be disappointed once he gets with her, but he’ll still go on with her the same as all the other husbands that married additional wives. Alex speaks periodically how his relationship with Carolinah is not what he expected it to be. They all say that, but they’re still with the women. So, what they said doesn’t matter.

    Your husband sounds like he dances to his own beat and no other.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    April 30, 2011

    To those that took offense by my posts referencing second wives, you assumed correctly. It was not directed towards the 2nds or 4th wives on the blog. I vented with Carolinah in mind and those 2nd wives that seem to fall in her category, namely: Lynn’s husband who had an affair with their housekeeper for three years ( We don’t know for certain whether that entailed sex); Zahrah’s husband that impregnated his girlfriend before he married her; Cindy’s husband who is intended for an extended term to a woman with whom he has phone sex. Perhaps I should have been more specific in my writings than to make a blanket statement about second wives. Second wives such as Jenny, Nura, Huda’s co-wife and Alya’s co-wife would not fall into the category of those I formerly spoke of. Okhti K is in a class of her own.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Jenny

    April 30, 2011

    @ Cindy, My ex-husband did the same thing as yours and after much thought, I couldn’t deal with it. I wasn’t Muslim then, so I didn’t have the problems you have.

    Did an Imam speak to him how is behavior is coming off in the community and how it is affecting you and the children? Does he care?

    What happened when you went to Paksitan? Why didn’t they marry then?

    Perhaps it is time for intensive action on your part. Can you drag him to a counselor? Maybe a short-term seperation?

    I really don’t see this as marriage coming. I may be wrong, but he is behaving just like my ex. Maybe if he thought he would lose his family, that may make him mend his ways.

    Food for thought, if he married this whore, what kind of husband would he be to you? I am afraid you may become what my Ms.P is today — no husband, no rights, just a house and a mother-in-law and her kids. Except my husband is not mean to her, where I’m afraid he will be to you.

    What are your thoughts? Are you close with his parents? What do they think of the situation?

  • Cindy

    April 30, 2011

    Asa Huda…Thank You

  • huda

    April 30, 2011

    Asalaam Cindy

    I don’t know what I can say or advise in your situation. I can only give my opinion and my personal response. He is wrong, totally and utterly. He is living haraam and it is unfair that you are suffering as a consequence. All your good intentions are falling on deaf ears and he is, as you said, determined to see this through to the end. The fact that he is living like this, ‘with a so called girlfriend’ is unacceptable in my eyes. True, our husbands are married to these women which contributes to us staying firm in our marriage. They are not cheating on us. You on the other hand are suffering terribly because even our faith does not support his actions, ALLAH forbids fornicating, so how can you stand and watch, you’re probably thinking, I totally understand your frustration.

    If my husband was cheating, I would not accept it. My heart would not neither would my faith. He would either have to marry her immediately or I would leave him. I would not allow him to disrespect me, my child, our personal space and the sanctity of marriage. If he is willing to openly flirt and declare his love, passion and lust for some bit of skirt, which is what she is with the indecent way she acting, and think nothing of it, then I would lose respect for him. Without respect then you are on a downward slope. I would get out now, because if he is not being honorable and responsible now, he never will.

    Do what you feel is right for you, we can only express our personal feelings, ultimately you will have to live with any decision you make. Inshallah Allah (SWT) guides you Cindy, you are in a predicament which can be resolved, however, I know it is easier said than done.

    much salaam

  • Ana

    April 30, 2011

    To many, I know what I’ve just written seems extremely repetitious. Please keep in mind there are many that have not read my whole story, and don’t know how things transpired. So every now and then I give a quick synopsis of the events. I apologize to those that have heard this broken record for the ump tenth time.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    April 30, 2011

    @Alya,

    It had to have been someone elses blog. Carolinah doesn’t cover, and has never covered to the best of my knowledge. I don’t even know whether she is a Muslim. I asked Alex what was taking her so long to decide if she wanted to accept Allah as God. Next thing I knew he said she took Shahadah and a few weeks later he married her.

    He and I had been married for a little shy of five years before he married her. He had an affair with her for three years while going through his divorce and before he met and married me. He resumed communicating with her four months before he married her. Alex and I were introduced by a mutual friend. The friend approached me and said Alex had gone through a divorce and was looking for a wife. He thought Alex and I were on the same level, and would make a good couple. It is how he and I got together. He was still sleeping with Carolinah when we met, and had to end that. He had said he already ended sleeping with her before we met. I don’t know. I only know he said she was still calling him for sex.

    I’m not taking his word that she is Muslim. The numerous times I spoke to her she never mentioned Islam, never gave me the Salaams or returned it when I gave it to her, never said she was Muslim or anything of that nature. My mom met her at her Non-Muslim sister’s wake. She was sitting in front of the open casket with her hair not covered, looking like everyone else (non-Muslim)there. Alex was hiding so my mom and niece wouldn’t see him. He knew my mom would be there and she expected him to be there, as well. I got it all firsthand from my mom.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Cindy

    April 30, 2011

    Asa Alya….I am sorry if I have given the impression that I would expect my husband to divorce his second. At no time did I say or even think this as it too would be haram. I am saying that once he does marry her and beds her he will THEN realize that she too is JUST A WOMEN and probably not the perfect one he has been envisioning and she cultivating in his mind. You see ladies the SEX part of polygamy is the least part of my problems. (My mom says that it’s not normal for a women to be ok with a their man having sex with other women…I say only Allah knows why it is a non issue for me except for the fact that I believe in the practice of polygamy and that sex is a part of marriage. What bothers me more is the affair and cheating. Right now he has the best of both worlds ….sex at home and a “Girlfriend” Yes she is a girlfriend no matter how you define it. Not just a friend, not a phone buddy but a girlfriend. Like I said all the benefits and none of the responsibility. I have warned him about her having a “binding baby” but he claims that she does not want kids at all and he really really doesn’t want any more…..But again this so so not my business or problem or concern. I have repeatedly told him that I would not raise “THEIR” children (Yeah he asked!!)what how and where they raise their kids is not of my concern or that my children. UNTIL THE DAY NIKAH IS COMPLETED THEY ARE IN A HARAM RELATIONSHIP……This is what bothers me most and the fact that neither one of them care that they continue to be in the haram relationship. I think it comes down to the hipocrasy of my whole situation and the fact that I already know that he is not capable of doing this in the correct islamic way…. I mean at least ladies most of your men are at trying right??

  • huda

    April 30, 2011

    Asalaam Alaikum

    Okhti Khadijah. No, I don’t think you should ‘sit and keep quiet’. If you feel like sh** and neglected then you should express this. What is the point of letting it eat you up inside, it will not benefit you nor your marriage, it will just create more tension and heartache. You have advised many of us to do our venting here and not at our husbands which is good advice to some extent. But if we always did that then they would never get the message. They wouldn’t know how we really feel. Men will happily go along with their lives thinking everything is hunky dory unless we EXPLICITLY tell them it’s not.

    If I went along not saying anything, then my husband would seriously think I was way over this polygamy business and concentrate on fulfilling no.2 whims. Don’t get me wrong I’m not always on his back about every little thing, but when he does or implies something which I feel is unfair or unjust, I will speak up and let him know. My no.2 is no quiet mouse in the corner, so why should I be?

    We all need to re-evaluate our expectations of marriage and the relationship we are in. It seems in polygamy our relationships constantly change, our feelings fluctuate, our perceptions of our husbands spiral up and down so we never feel settled and secure.

    Where do you think this marriage is going okhti? Where do you hope to see yourself in the future? Has sherif bitten off more than he can chew? I don’t know, it’s hard, I am sorry to say but he has burdened (if that’s the right word) himself with much responsibility with four wives and it appears the only way to support and maintain this lifestyle means he has to work elsewhere. As a result, this has a negative effect not only on you, but all of you, including the children, which defeats the whole object. My husband is seeing now the effects of him travelling constantly is having on his children, and on himself. It’s not easy but he should thought of that before, instead of ASSUMING everything will just fall into place as he imagined.

    How you keep this up and still be sane is admirable, I personally couldn’t do it. You are patient and strong Okhti, keep that up and pray Allah for guidance.

    much salaam

  • Alya

    April 30, 2011

    @khadija – subhanAllah Khadija, what you have willingly put yourself through is noteworthy musha’Allah and I can’t believe that you don’t seem to recognise yourself enough. It’s not good to be proud but seriously don’t put yourself down.

    @Ana, thanks for the advice moving forward. I certainly never imagined this would happen and my only regret is not standing up for what is right from the very start, 10 years ago.

    @Cindy, I still stand by what I said. Khadija is right, he is in the wrong, you are not, why would you be sinning/innovating? He can’t talk to her unless there is a mahram present, what he is doing leads to disaster, take it from me because it happened to me and it seemed so innocent and OK, well I feel deeply in love and lost track of right and wrong. You seem to be distressed now but it will be worse once they are married so if you can’t accept it now, why would you accept it later? it will be very hard to accept and I’ve no doubt that your love for your husband will give you courage to stay however as you can see from all of our lives, it’s not easy. You said, “THIS IS WHY I PUSH THE MARRIAGE…SO HE WILL FINALLY REALIZE THAT SHE IS ONLY A WOMEN AND NO DIFFERNT THAN ANYONE ELSE.” My question is, then what? Once he realises that, what do you think will happen, leave her? I doubt that if he has gone that far as to marry her under your ‘permission’ then why would he leave and make life any easier for you. I’m sorry but I’m paranoid about men, their words, their actions, everything.

    This reminds me of Ana’s blog about when she first saw Carolina without a hijab and said that she wasn’t as bad as she thought her to be. I think it was in Ana’s blog but I can’t remember too well. Anyhow the point is maybe the other lady isn’t fabulous but she probably isn’t bad either. I would do everything I could to avoid it because I regret it so bad that I never did anything meaningful to avoid my husband doing what he did to me and marrying someone else. Demand respect in your home. I want to be able to do that myself, so I’m really telling myself this more than anything.

  • Cindy

    April 30, 2011

    Asa Khadijah,

    Of course you are not the “Charity” wife. It seems to me you are the loving and caring wife that that teetering on the edge….But hold on my friend, we are here for you inshallah

  • Khadijah Z

    April 30, 2011

    @ Jenny … good for you okhti this is best let it alone.

    I no lately i sound unreasonable i cant help it. When i think on some things of how the lives are of others, i thank Allah daily for him, but when i feel neglected and knowing the things i no it hurts deep inside at a point i wonder is it turning away from love i feel, and more towards dislike or worse. sad
    I dont like feeling like this and i do try hard not to argue and fight with him but a human being can only endure so much till it is eating away at your own being and self worth breaking you down into what feels like there’s nothing left in me to be happy about or even gratitude. I fear that ill be one of those wives who were ungrateful on the day and hard as i try not to feel so, i cant help it some times crying

    Am i the charity wife who is not satisfied or am i just suppose to just sit and keep quiet and only state Alhumduillah no matter what i see, feel or hear and the lack of it towards me crying

  • Jenny

    April 30, 2011

    I just have to thank Allah for my husband. I keep getting these “feel good” moments and when that happens, more and more of what I read in that book starts to sink in my head.

    I just got off the phone with a customer and the whole time, she spoke so wonderful of my husband. At the time, she didn’t know who I was. Then she told me she asked if he had a family and she told me he went on and on about his wife, Jenny, and how Allah was blessing them with twins. She told me when he spoke of Jenny, his face was all lit up. We spoke for awhile longer and she said how nice I was and I had had a really nice boss. Then she asked my name, and I told her I was Jenny, and then we spoke further.

    It’s really nice when the husband is sweet to you, but it hits so much deeper when you hear from someone else they can tell how much your husband loves you.

    I’m really going to try to hang this polygamy issue on the shelf for awhile. I am so tired of beating my husband up. I know the Shaytain will try whispering in my ear from time to time, but I just need to thank Allah for what I have and for the problems/tests he hasn’t given me (such as Ms.P being in his life).

  • Khadijah Z

    April 30, 2011

    @ Cindy… okhti blow it all out this is what you need to do. In saying Allah says of 2 he is the third and if they are talking in sexual manners they have already committed sin! “let no woman be alone to any man who is not her husband or mahar”. Yes i agree in that let him marry her and bring her or support her he will soon find out this is maybe her only goal, so telling him all the sweet words in its self is haram before marraige as you stated he will find her to be only a woman who by standers of how i grew up in a kufir origin is “if she will do such things to him so quickly with out marraige, then she will do to another wail with you looking for even better then what she got… a hoe is a hoe no matter what language or how she fix’s her self up. My husband seen only a pic of me in scarf and covered before we married and never did i talk alone to him or him of me!

    Sorry but Cindy is in her rights and in fact has gone beyond even that her home is her Masjid, so to allow such things going on is bad enough esp around her children, and in this shataan dances around in it spreading his filth by the 2 of them.

    This is like when i got angry by the 2nd who waited till no one else was in the room but sheirf, her and i and started talking to him wail standing in front of him with no morals started grinding on his leg disrespecting me, herself and the home of the 1st of which she did this in.

  • Jenny

    April 30, 2011

    @ Ana, Ouch! Like Khadijah, I hope you were talking about C and not second wives in general. crying

    @ Lynn, Yesterday the book arrived and I literally read the entire thing! There are a lot of good things in it that will put things in perspective. The main thing I noticed is WE ALL FEEL THE SAME.

    I will warn you, you will be hit with the warps in the thinking. I was shocked too. The first thing is there is no first, second, third, or fourth. We are all wives. There are no numbers.

    Later today, I will go through the book and make a couple of short points that I think need to be said. I will warn you, this is a book that will hold your hand and make you feel better, but it is not one that will say, “Bad husband!” And like it repeats, polygyny is halal.

    I want to address the phone issue.

    The book actually mentioned about “snooping” and learning what we know but shouldn’t (like evesdropping), and looking at cell phones goes into the same group as snooping and evesdropping. I will go into that later.

    As to my situation, which is a bit unique, they don’t talk. Hubs calls home once a day to talk to his mother and children (never to her). That used to bother me — BAD! Call me selfish or whatever, but I didn’t want to know about them, just like they didn’t know about me. The Shaytain would whisper in my ear that since I didn’t know Urdu, how did I know he wasn’t speaking to her in front of me?

    It took several good lashings on my part for my husband to finally realize that things would go better for him if he didn’t make these calls around me. I don’t care if he had to go outside in the middle of a blizzard (which I made him do), or sit in his car in the heat of summer (which I made him do), or stand out in the pouring rain (which I made him do). It took him awhile to figure it all out to call at a set time when I wasn’t around. I always made an excuse to leave him alone to make his call. He really didn’t think that it bothered me since he would call in front of me! DUH!!

    Anyway, after a major blow up (and I made sure I made them major blowups so the point would be driven home — I had to stay consistent) I guess the point finally came home. Whether he understood or not I can’t say. He just realized he won’t get yelled at by me if he made these calls when I wasn’t around.

    That eliminated any jealousy I felt. I feel bad making him do this because he was only calling his mother and children. Yet, in my eyes, they fell under the catagory of “Them.”

    Fast forward years ahead. I really don’t care if he calls them around me now. I understand Urdu, but I also know that Hubs tells me the truth and there is nothing sinister going on. I talk to everyone in Pakistan (except Ms.P) and they call me and everything is fine. I think Hubs is still scared I would flip out on him, so I just leave everything the way I made it.

    As far as the names on the phone, Hubs has me programmed as “My Lovely Wife” and he calls me “His Everything.” As far as the phone number in Pakistan, he has it listed as his son’s name. Hubs and I answer each other’s phone and I do most of his texts for him as he can’t type. Your shock with the “Loves” are understandable and I would be shocked if it happened to me. I really felt your pain. But, in reading this book, it will teach you that what goes on with them is none of our business. It is the Shaytain putting these ideas in your head. I know Hubs doesn’t text (I know, my husband is really as weird as I portray him to be), but if he did talk to her, I would stay a mile away from his phone. Imagine how much damage the Shaytain can do with that little tool? So therefore, make a rule (like I did with Hubby’s calls to Pakistan). Have him keep his phone in a certain place; therefore, you won’t accidently run into it and the Shaytain cannot lead you to sin. I know it took a lot of blow ups on Hubs for him to finally realize I meant what I said.

  • Cindy

    April 30, 2011

    Asa Ana, Do you honestly believe that if your husband spoke daily for EXTENDED periods in your home with you being present, with a women that you knew HE wanted to at the VERY LEAST have sex with, that you would be ok and let it slide__________? Now add on top of that the fact that they are speaking in another language ( so you were never 100% positive of what was being said) Do you now allow alex to speak with carolinah in your home… as his “wife” Forget text messages I mean speak in your presence? Lets not forget that they still do speak daily regardless of who’s day it is while he is at work as I have had multiple people ask me “who is that women —– speaks with every day” I have only tried to stop the DAILY CONVERSATIONS IN MY HOME.Yeah I know it is an Innovation but hopefully Allah will forgive me in the interest of keeping the peace. I know that you all say ” They are only talking and what is the harm?”For me the fact that they (HE)FANTISIZES) ABOUT HAVING RELATIONS WITH HER IS THE SAME AS HAVING RELATIONS WITH HER (IN MY MIND) THIS IS WHY I PUSH THE MARRIAGE…SO HE WILL FINALLY REALIZE THAT SHE IS ONLY A WOMEN AND NO DIFFERNT THAN ANYONE ELSE. Do I believe he loves her? Yes I do or I believe that he is in love with the very fact of being in love with her at the very least. He has told me point blank…”Whether I marry her or not I will never give her up” So ladies as to stopping the marriage I really do not see that as an option.I do realize and get the impression sometimes that you all think “What does cindy have to complain about? She isn’t even in a polygamous marriage yet” What I can say with all honesty is this ..In truth I have been in a polygamous “REALATIONSHIP” alot longer than most of you and one other thing…”Judge not least you be judged” We are all here on this site for one reason or another. We hope for acceptance and the freedom to “blow off some steam” once in a while, for advice and friendship It is just sometimes I feel that I am not accepted as others because they haven’t done the nikah yet( through no fault of mine). All I can say ladies is this….Put yourself in my shoes (just for a little while) then let me know how you would feel. Please… I do not mean to offend anyone, I respect each and everyone of you and I myself do try to “See your situation through your eyes” as all situations are different and have been taken to different extremes for each and every one of us. Anyway Asalamu-laikum ladies, Do try to enjoy your day.

  • Khadijah Z

    April 30, 2011

    @ Ana you said … Let’s take comfort in the fact that we are a first wife, and don’t give the other wife that much time in our thoughts. They are not worth it.
    im praying your directing this at your other wife sad

  • Khadijah Z

    April 30, 2011

    @ Ayla, Lynn all i can say is InshaAllah Allah will protect you from what shataan has tried to destroy sad

  • Lynn

    April 30, 2011

    Nope Ana – mine was saved as “my honey” but later he wanted to change it to “my love” and saved ms. P number as something else. I found out it was her doing not him. He called me “honey” that’s why. I shouldn’t let it affect me right ?

    The thought of him and her calling each other “love” hit me. No wonder she is so convinced he loves her that much haiz

  • Khadijah Z

    April 30, 2011

    As for taking any wives with him the 3 of them drew lots and the 3rd won so if he takes her she will be his only wife for how long………… since he cant afford to take all and this is all she talks of waiting for him to bring her and her kids with him to Saudi, i guess maybe this is getting closer out of the money he is making now on the red sea sad
    It could be years before he could afford or be allowed to take all his wives and kids so i guess she would be his only wife all those years as for myself if this happens im out of here ill not be a non wife for years

  • Khadijah Z

    April 30, 2011

    Asalaam Alaykum Okhti’s i guess i have really hit a low point. Seeing how upset Lynn was brought all kinds of feelings out, loneliness, anger, even mistrust.
    We had a big argument and i told him to just divorce me so he would not have to a take job outside cos 3 will be less then 4. I got tired of the time on net where i sat waiting even if he was on bcos he was working and i was left typing to myself so i exploded and asked what the hell he doing this when i no he is calling the other wives, he stated i call you to! I said yeah once a month and i no he doing more of the 3rd cos every friggin time i he telling me i ask her to send you this child to help him, or to send you money or what ever it is like a weekly thing and im getting diddly shit. It got so bad i could get dress and go to the market and back and he didnt even no i had left so i made sure he new and how angry i was crying

    Got a text saying he will be home tomorrow, right how much of that will be on the phone to them, or asking to send the kids after he gets his needs? sad

    Guess im just tired of the whole mess sad

  • Ana

    April 30, 2011

    Ayla, I bet you never in your wildest dreams believed you could stand up for yourself the way you did and get positive results. You probably never knew you had it in you. Fear and the whispers of Satan that he’d leave you probably kept you from standing up for yourself. Of course, he now realizes how much he loves you and how much you mean to him. He was never able to feel it before because you were always at his beckon call, willing to accept anything and everything he presented to you. We don’t miss the water until the well runs dry. His well was about to run dry (He was on the verge of losing you), and he wasn’t going to let that happen.

    Alya, he is your husband and he has acknowledge he was wrong. He indicated that he wants to make thing right. I suggest you give him some time to do it. Don’t pressure him right now. Be patient. You know he is married to her too. Work out an agreement with him, regarding his time and money that is just and fair. We are all to be just and fair in all our dealings.

    Stay alert and don’t fall asleep on him again. Don’t let him take your rights from you or be unfair to you. Stand your ground. Don’t go back to the way you were, giving into him when he was wrong. At the same time, don’t exert your new found powers hee hee (it’s a false illusion, as we have no power, only Allah does) over him and become a tyrant. You and he have a lovely baby coming, so focus on going forward in truth.

    His other wife may leave or stay. I suggest you not interfere with what happens between him and her on that. I’d let him figure it out on his own, so he can’t blame you for the outcome. You did your part in exposing the truth. You did good. Alhumdulillah!

    You’re going to be ok, Alya.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Alya

    April 30, 2011

    @Ana’s question. Funny u should have asked that because it sort of happened to me this week. My husband when he found out i told the other wife everything, mentioned that now that the truth is out he would have to divorce me because her family would make him do that. I told him to not think twice and just divorce me. He regretted it and told me he didn’t want to divorce me. I called the sheikh and asked for khulu after he left. He was almost in tears and has realized how much I actually mean to him. He now never wants to lose me and to my amazement is facing the situation at last. He said divorce is not an option. He is doing all he can to get everything sorted asap and I’m trying to stay patient through this. At the end of the day I love my husband and don’t want to leave but all the hurt he has caused me would make it easy for me to leave any day should it ever come to that. This week I have learnt that he has put me through this situation because I let him do it and because he could. I also learnt that he loves me and won’t treat me in a way I refuse to be treated so long as I don’t let it. @Cindy from my experience, if I were you I would do everything in my power to make sure he doesn’t marry that woman. Are you sure they are not married or done the contract? If I were you I would come up with ways of making him not want that woman in his life. Not sure how exactly but if they are not married then there wouldn’t be any sin on you I doubt. I would not let him talk to her, I would leave with the children and not answer his calls until he comes crawling back begging your forgiveness. If that doesn’t work then maybe he does have feelings for her but at least u won’t look back and think to yourself ‘why didn’t I do anything to avoid this’. I would be drastic.

  • Ana

    April 29, 2011

    Lynn, let me be Sherlock Holmes for a minute. I was just wondering about what he said. He said he changed your name on his phone to “My Love” – right? But when the phone rang and you looked, you saw “My Love.” Well, you weren’t the one calling him so how did “My Love” show up? The other name that he had given her should have appeared.

    Nonetheless, they are all just terms of endearment. We need to be mindful that relationships are different. Look at the typical situation in which a married man in monogamy has a girlfriend/mistress on the side. You could understand how the marriage at home with the wife would not have the same intensity and passion as the relationship he has with the girlfriend/mistress. The girlfriend/mistress relationship is more heated and steamy to say the least. SO, it could be a bit the same in a polygamous marriage. The one marriage has been in existence for several years and then a new wife comes on the scene and the relationship with the new wife is going to take on a different life than that in which the first marriage has. Am I making sense?

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    April 29, 2011

    I think we first wives cause more problems for ourselves in worrying about the other wives. Just like men in monogamous marriages – they very rarely leave their wives for the mistress/girlfriend on the side. In our cases, the mistress/girlfriend on the side is given an honorable title of wife. Still, the husbands never leave the first wives for them. It is because they have a deep, binding love for the first wives. It’s usually the first wives that leave, as they can’t handle another woman being in the picture. The other woman satisfy some other needs he has.

    If he loved her all that much, he’d leave the first wife for her. There are some occasions in which the husband will leave a first wife for another woman, but it’s rare. Let’s take comfort in the fact that we are a first wife, and don’t give the other wife that much time in our thoughts. They are not worth it. Let’s put Allah there in our thoughts instead of the other woman. He should be there anyway, not her. It’s the way I’ve been gaining more and more contentment in life everyday, minus a setback here and there dancing So, he loves her, so what??? It doesn’t diminish the love they has for us.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    April 29, 2011

    Cindy, I think your situation is a bit different. Her being labeled his soul mate, love of his life or his heart seems a bit insignificant when applied to someone that has been his phone buddy for several years. You are his wife. She still has yet to get there as that. She and he have a special connection. That’s all. They’re good buddies, having fun. He’s not breaking his neck go get hitched to her in holy matrimony, at all. I agree with Jenny; if they were that much in love and it was meant to be, there would be no stopping them. There would be no mountain high enough, no river wide enough, no valley low enough to keep him from getting to her. It ain’t happening. So, lighten up a bit. Tell him that he could have an hour of talk a night with her or something like that. Don’t sweat it. You’ll have plenty of time to sweat it, if they ever unite in marriage.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    April 29, 2011

    Okhti K, try to cheer up. Sherif will be home sooner than you know and you’re his first stop – hooray!!! You’re just feeling a little lonely now. I could imagine it’s not very easy being in another country with co-wives that speak a different language and they don’t reach out and make an effort to make you comfortable in some way or another.

    I often wonder too why husbands marry more than one woman – in your case four – and have to go off for long periods of time to work to support them. It’s difficult enough that each of you only get to see your husband every fourth night, but if he comes home for only a week, for instance, and goes away again for a couple months, it’s really tough to handle. I don’t know. I just wonder sometimes if it’s fair to the wives. It would be easier if he could at least take them with him, or something. It’s strange. Does it make sense for a man to marry so many when he has to go away so often to support them? Allah is the all knowing. So, me with my limited amount of knowledge need to just leave it alone. What’s some of your thoughts on it, okhti?

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    April 29, 2011

    It’s Okay, Lynn. The fact is you are his first wife. He can’t love her that much more than you, or he would leave you to be only with her. He would make sure she got more time than she’s getting. He’d find a way. He hasn’t done that – at least not yet. Most importantly, you and I have done some not so nice things (to put it mildly) that would give our husbands every reason to divorce us. I contacted Alex’s job and said he was polygamous. His job was ready to begin an investigation, but I asked them not to. You got Ms.P barred from re-entering the country. If our husbands stood by us after having done such things, it speaks volume.

    You’re still getting way more days than her. Everyone knows she is very upset by it. It normal; it’s natural. You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to figure out what she’s going through. He’s pressured by her and the last thing he needs when coming back to you is to be pressured by you, especially when you have so much more than her – more days with him, more children, more wealth, more education, I’m assuming more beauty etc., most importantly and hopefully faith in Allah, too. We are blessed to have more than the other wives. We need to show our gratitude by remembering that when we want to lash out at our husbands or complain to them.

    We can’t expect our husbands to love us and want to be near us, if we’re bellyaching all the time and show that we are not happy. Why would they want to love and be around us when we are like that? Being hateful to our husbands and badgering them about the other wife doesn’t bring them closer to us. Alex has mentioned how I don’t call him all the time. I don’t get upset when he’s not exactly on time. I don’t try to control him etc. It tells me that he’s getting the opposite from her. I shouldn’t be like her. I’m better than her. You and I know we shouldn’t try to lord over someone else. Carolinah wouldn’t know that, as she knows little or nothing about Islam.

    All we have to do is listen to what our husbands say, and observe them and we can learn a lot about what they are thinking and feeling. As I mentioned before, a woman knows whether her husband love her, whether he loves the other wife more, and which one he’d prefer to be with if he had to make a choice. So, don’t sweat it, Lynn. Stop rocking the boat and enjoy your time with your husband. After hardship there is relief. When your sad times start being less and less and your happy times starts being more and more, you know you’re on the right track happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Lynn

    April 29, 2011

    Ana thanks for sharing. After I saw “my love” i went out of the bedroom and told him “Hunn your love called” .. I know he was stunned and knew I was hurt. He performed his prayers, changed into his working attire and came to hug me. He took his phone and showed me he has changed mine to “my love” and hers as something else. He even showed me he had included a picture of us. I told him I am not petty and I don’t need him to change it to please me. I just felt so hurt then. A few minutes after he left I received a text message “you will always be the one I love forever nobody can change that.”

    Like you Ana I know that I am his favorite. He has divorced me once but it took us less than 3 days to reconcile. He felt “lost” during those 3 days and he said he hated that feeling. He will never divorce me again, unless i file for a divorce. He spends min. 23 days a month with me tells me that he loves me more plus he makes time for me now.

    I also know that he loves Ms. P now that she is his wife and pregnant. He will be coming home from his night duty soon and I will not talk about it anymore. Today will be a busy day for me – my current maid is leaving and a new one to replace.

  • Khadijah Z

    April 29, 2011

    @ Lynn okhti what you seen is what it is! Honey verses love, and my heart hurts so much for you crying
    ill not say ignore it or it doesn’t matter we both no it dose, hell we all no it dose.
    Fact is at some point we all no or feel we are not or are no longer his love before Allah. Men go after certain women for a reason, we think its sex or for children, but to say it up front im not a child i no the difference and how to coroner a person into truth with out a fight and even with. So when your husband tells you he spends his most or best amount of time to one wife is because he prefers to be with her and your not the only wife who sees or feels it, then you no when you have been slapped hard in the face with truth and truth tho it should be as it is can hurt worse then losing a limb.
    Im sorry lynn you seen that, maybe same reason why my co wives get our husband talking in his sleep and i dont…. dont need to confirm what i already know.

    Im not saying names but fact is fact if you husband has been to a woman b4 he new you and then continued after you and even married her to keep her what dose that say? Where is the love he promised you?

    Right now is a hard time for me, and i dont mean to put a damper on the problems the rest have like Lynn, Ms2, Cindy and Zahrah. I think for now i need to keep my thoughts to myself before i anger anyone or make their pain worse sad

    Lynn pls try and not think about it okhti for your own sake just try and forget it plzzz crying

  • Ana

    April 29, 2011

    Anytime a husband that we love very much expresses love for another woman, it will invoke feelings of jealousy and jealousy brings with it hurt and pain. If the expression indicates the husband loves the other wife more, it hurts that much more.

    I got a wake up call, the first time I saw the words, “I love you” written to Carolinah in a text on his phone. It hurt badly, but it let me know that she is a part of his life and he loves her. I could make all the excuses I want – say he’s with her for sex or whatever, but there is love in his heart for her. If a man is with another woman that he is calling his wife, he loves her – as much as we don’t want to believe it. Even if he has regrets that he married her, if he is still with her, there is probably love in his heart for her.

    Nothing has ever made me think he loves her more than me. The fact that he advised my wakeel and me that he would divorce her, if it came down to him having to divorce one of us, confirms my position even more – he loves me more.

    He used to have my name on the face of his phone, but soon changed that to his mother’s name. I guess she didn’t like seeing my name there all the time. He has said he loves her; I’ve seen it on a couple texts on his phone. This past New Years, he was with me and he texted her when New Years came in and said, “Happy New Year. I love you”. He had done the same to me the one year he was with her when New Years came in (or she may have been called in to work. It’s when she was angry that season because her job schedule interfered with her seeing Alex.) I saw in his text that he called her “Sweetie”. He calls me that too. One time after I had texted her repeatedly nasty, nasty, hateful text, he text her and said “I love you sooooooo much it hurts. It was good talking with you last night. You sounded much better. When thoughts like that enter your mind remember Allah.” He sent me the text, but it was meant for her. Some time after that I said to him “You’ve never said to me – you love me soooooo much it hurts.” He said some people like that need to hear it more than others. I know she a needy person, being second and all, so I quickly got over it.

    I think it’s what the words convey that’s most important. One has to take into consideration the words along with his actions. I think a woman when in polygamy can tell who the favorite is. We have the female intuition that lets us know. For some women, they can handle not being the favorite. I can’t. I believe if I felt and believed I wasn’t the favorite, I’d leave and find a marriage in which I was the favorite. I believe I have it that way. I know it may sound arrogant, but it’s the truth. If he doesn’t love me and love me more than her, I have no reason to stay.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    April 29, 2011

    If Alex were to come home today and say he wanted a divorce, I think my first response would be to ask the question, “why?” I could think of two answers that he would give: he loves Carolinah, and wants only to be with her or he is tired of taking the back seat to my Islamic family. Either way, I would willingly go along with the divorce. If he loves Carolinah enough to want to be with her only, what could I say? I wouldn’t want to be with a man that doesn’t love me. For him to want to be with her only, says he doesn’t love me. With regard to my Islamic family, he knows I would not get rid of them. So grounds for a divorce in either cases would be justified.

    When I first began living polygamy and when I first began blogging here, I said, if Alex and I divorced, I would go for his jugular vein. I would have attempted to destroy him. As I said previously in earlier posts, I would have taken him to the cleaners – taken him for everything he has, so that he would be worth nothing when I got finished with him. I would have made certain she got nothing, as well (no insurance policy paid, nothing from his Last Will and Testament, as I’d challenge it in Probate Court).

    I feel entirely different now. Although, I would never have messed with anything in his Last Testament and Will, anyway. It was just a threat made out of anger. I fear Allah too much to not honor what’s in someone Last Will and Testament or their last bequest. I would expect alimony from Alex, part of his pension and whatever else is due me that I am entitled to, as we have a marriage license. I wouldn’t try to hurt him, but be “just and fair.” Alex wouldn’t want anything from me except what he came with. He has always said that and I believe him. I believe him because he was willing to give his ex-wife everything, but she didn’t want anything.

    When he and I married, he left everything behind and he had a house. I was living in a luxury apt. when we met, as I refuse to deal in usury for a mortgage. I refused to move into his house because I didn’t like the location. He sold it and moved in with me. Allah eventually gave us the means to pay for a house in cash to live in. I believe Allah rewarded me for trying to serve Him and not engage in usury all those years when all my family, friends and co-workers had mortgages based on usury. I believe Allah rewarded me for my patience by giving me the means to buy a much better, more beautiful house and pay cash for it, plus gave me the wherewithal to buy additional real estate with cash (a house for my mom and buy a house to rent to my sister and her husband).

    I am a living example of what Allah says in the Iyat: “Whoever fears Allah, Allah will find a way out for him (from every difficulty) and He will provide for him from sources that he could never have imagined.”
    [Quran 65:2-3]

    I never imagined Allah would give me all that He has given me. NEVER!

    Alex has always advised me that he would never divorce me. He is in this marriage for the long haul. I believe it. I believe it’s Alex’s plan. I don’t know what Allah’s plan is. I believe that had I been able to devote myself to Alex entirely before, he would never have married Carolinah. She fills a void in his life or filled the void that was there before.

    I know polygamy is good for me, as it allows me time to worship Allah and not be distracted all the time by him (Alex). I can spend time with my Islamic family that helps keep me close to Allah. My Islamic family and my main objective is to serve Allah. My marriage to Alex is secondary in order of importance. I have no doubt Alex loves me. What’s important is that he loves me more than Carolinah and I feel it. I have no doubt about it. I love him too, as well.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • huda

    April 29, 2011

    Asalaam Alaikum

    Lynn, it is not a small matter, the same happened to me (over 2 years ago) I saw him refer to her on various texts as ‘my love’. I confronted him and he gave me a load of b**sh** how it was not true, so why say it then? To make her feel special, to keep her sweet? What? I called him a liar and told him I would never believe anything he says to me. It hurts like hell to see those words and knowing he is ‘wanting’ to say those words to her. I hate it. Since then I cannot even say ‘I love you’ to him, I physically cannot get the words out, whereas the words freely flow when I am speaking to other loved ones.

    To answer Ana’s question, I would be out of that door like a shot. I would inform my family immediately to inform an imam to issue ‘talaq’ (divorce) papers and would begin the ugly process of seeking a lawyer and talk assets and finances. I wouldn’t question him why or seek reconciliation, even if he wanted to, I would not go back. The fact that he contemplated it after all we have been through and the heartache he has caused; that would taint my heart forever. If he doesn’t want me, then that alone would be a sure enough sign for me to leave his life and not look back.

    Just been watching the Royal wedding. Beautiful, Kate looked amazing, I got lost in the fairytale for a few hours. Reminds me back to my wedding day and the joyous occasion it was, full of hopes and dreams for the future. Seems those joyous moments are far and in between these days.

  • Jenny

    April 29, 2011

    ASA Ladies,

    Cindy & Lynn, my heart goes out to you both. {HUGS} I wish I knew what to say, but I don’t. I could only tell you that I felt a sucker punch when I read what you both wrote. I felt your pain.

    About the worst I can relate to was my husband used to call his mother and kids around me (like I said, he never speaks to Ms.P). It used to upset me because what if she ever jumped on the phone. At first, I didn’t know Urdu, but now I can understand everything that is being said.

    I used to have a battle royale with Hubs about making those calls in front of me. Back then, my excuse was, “If they got to live in ignorant bliss (they didn’t know about me), than I should be allowed to live in ignorant bliss and not know about them too.” I know, childish. The man just wanted to talk to his mother and children!

    Anyway, to avoid a major scene on my part, he would make his call when there was no chance I would be around. To this day he still does that; although, in truth, it no longer bothers me because they now know about me and his family calls to speak to me. But the poor guy is afraid I’m going to scream at him again!

    Honestly, now that I’ve given it a lot of thought, I’ll tell you what bothered me. Hearing him speak to his children just sucker punched me in the stomach everyday, because we were trying for so long to get pregnant. In a nutshell, that is what bothered me the most. It was like a tidal wave of emotion.

    Cindy, I really think that this thing he has going on is just a fascination/telephone/internet relationship. If you loved someone for so long, you want to be with that person and wouldn’t delay marriage. What happened between them when you was in Pakistan? Why didn’t they marry when they were in front of each other? Seriously, I think this chick is playing some kind of head game with him.

    Ana was correct in her advice to you. I’m a bold person, and I would have tossed his a$$ on the street and let her rescue him (which I doubt she would). I couldn’t tolerate that one bit. You are a much stronger woman than I.

  • cindy

    April 29, 2011

    Asa lynn…been there done that i am sorry to say. My husband
    has me in his phone as wife cindy. About two years
    ago i found out that she is under ( Janan) which means
    soul mate or my heart or love of my life…even todzy
    when i think of it i am heartbroken

  • Lynn

    April 29, 2011

    sorry Ana – i’m gonna be off-topic again. Life has been a roller coaster ride for me.

    My hubby supposed to leave for his night duty but he was delayed as we had guests. I heard his handphone kept on ringing and took a peek when i saw “My Love” calling. It’s a call from Ms P. My heart just dropped. I knew he saved mine as “My Honey”. It pissed me to the max and the tears just fell. I am hurt, very hurt.

    Maybe its a small matter to you sisters, but it seems too much for me to handle.

    :”(

  • Jenny

    April 29, 2011

    I just wanted to clarify what I said, not that people think I’m horrible.

    First, I find it hard to see Hubs doing this. If he wanted away from me, he would just leave and leave me with everything. I’m a firm believer in history. You can tell a lot about a person in how they treat others. I see how hubs treated Ms.P when he wanted to get away from her. He left her financially set, with the children, and most importantly, with her dignity intact (which is a reason why I have trouble demanding the divorce).

    So, if Hubs walked through the door and made that announcement, he is deviating from the person I know and love, and I would be devestated that he turned into a monster and I would have no choice but to respond by going for the jugular.

    On a funny note, when I graduated law school, my mother gave me this statue that said, “Sue the bast*rds!” That would sum up my philosophy to a T.

    Now Ana, how would you react?

  • Jenny

    April 29, 2011

    Wow! What a heavy question… “What would I do if my husband came home tomorrow and said he wanted a divorce?”

    I won’t lie and tell you I would be accepting that it is Allah’s way. That’s not me, so I won’t lie to you.

    Honestly, I would be so crushed and feel violated because that would go against every promise he ever made to me. Would I do? I would turn his world around upside down like he did mine.

    If you ever saw Roseanne in “She Devil,” that is me. Sorry again, I am being honest.

    I think I told you when we first married, he gave me EVERYTHING. So, if Hubs wanted a divorce, he will pretty much leave with the clothes in his closet and his dental floss and toothbrush. I would keep the business, the co-op and of course, the children. A very bitter side of me would come out.

    Then, I will sue his a$$ in civil court for the divorce, and I will take the monetary value of the house in Pakistan and whatever else he has left. And wouldn’t it be something if it came out he had a wife in Pakistan…

    If he walked in the door and made that announcement, that would mean to me that I was blindsighted and didn’t see this coming and his reason for a divorce was not a good one. Therefore, that would preclude a “friendly” divorce.

    I do want to say if our marriage was bad, I would have a divorce where it didn’t get nasty. We would part as friends. However, I am the type of person when I am hurt, I bite back, and I bite very, very hard.

  • Lynn

    April 29, 2011

    @ Ana you asked “What would we do, if our husbands come home tomorrow and say they want a divorce?”

    I will take it as an answer from Allah. It’s much easier to leave him and I will not look back. There is no point in sticking around if hubby doesnt want me anymore. But I will fight for my rights, and I am sure I will not make life too easy for him. He has to compensate me for everything.

    I know i will have the full support of my children – they understand coz they have seen everything.

    I pray that day will not come. I will persevere and continue loving him no matter what tomorrow brings.

  • Khadijah Z

    April 29, 2011

    @ Ana your Q is: My question is what would we do, if our husbands come home tomorrow and say they want a divorce

    My A is …. id say ok, ask him to leave, and cry and start to pack, ill not stay married or waste a thought over a man who dose not love me or want to be with me and id not let him know how much he hurt me either. Id probably think on how much time, Love and effort i had wasted in the marriage, on him, as well as all the things i had to endured with his other wives and family, the loneliness, in the life with him, but starting over would come and not be easy, but Allah always gives us test, it would be just another test

  • Jenny

    April 29, 2011

    @ Ana,

    I like how you summed up, “Should you stay or go?” Honestly, that is a question I never ask myself. The other day I was feeling nostaglic and watched our wedding video. At some point, I grabbed the microphone and said, “I didn’t know it was possible to love someone so much!” You know, today, years later, those words are even more true.

    Don’t get me wrong, there are times my husband drives me slap mad, but I never thought of leaving him. Like I said in my video, I didn’t know it was possible to love someone so much. The thing I do ask myself over and over is for him to get his divorce.

    It is ONLY because I love him that I don’t demand it. I know his children, his family, and she will suffer a stigma, and really what kind of a life would she have as a divorced woman living in a village? Hubs is a very compassionate man (sometimes to a fault). If he could be so compassionate, it drives me nuts that I cannot! This is where my inner struggle lies. Honestly, I couldn’t handle it if she were a part of his life. I think dealing with this inner struggle is certainly my test to be more compassionate.

    Leaving my husband was never an option. I am too attached to the hip! My mother pegs it right. She says, “You two are so far each others a$$, you can’t even tell you two apart!” happy She’s right too.

    My other struggle is sometimes I get resentful because Hubs needs me so much for the business. I have to make every decision, pay every bill, etc… Hell, yesterday I was at the doctor and my phone didn’t stop for one second the whole time. He needs me to even get his email for heaven’s sake! I do all this while Ms.P gets to sit on her a$$ in the jungle and not have any worries. I know, it is childish, but I do get resentful. However, I know that Hubs “needs” a “partner”, which is why it is me and not Ms.P, because they never speak. I remember him telling me even when they first got married, she would never speak to him and he couldn’t share anything with her. Again, it is the shaytan whispering these things in my ear.

    What I am doing now is when I want to snap at Hubs, I remembered what he told me when I was going through my little problem a week ago and how he handled it for me and what he said to me. I wanted to snap at him yesterday, bit my tongue and asked myself, “Was it worth it?” No, it wasn’t. Not after what he did for me. I was so proud of myself I didn’t say my standard answer, “Get your bit*ch in Pakistan to do it!” I did tell him that if he pushed my button again, I do have an answer for him he won’t like. He got the message. happy

  • Ana

    April 28, 2011

    Oh, Cindy, you’re making me sad now sad You just hurt my heart, really. It seems you’re doing everything possible to make your marriage work. After all, he’s not even married to her. What he is doing is way out of line.

    Who knows if Allah will permit them to marry. We plot and we plan, but Allah is the best of Planners. My understanding is a couple can marry by way of telephone. Marriage is easy in Islam. What’s going to happen between the two of them is questionable at best. You may be fretting yourself over nothing. Better he’s talking to her instead of glue to the PC, watching porn.

    I don’t know Cindy; you could just ride this one out. Maybe just let them talk. It may just be a talking relationship. It’s so bizarre. i dont know You can’t expect him to go cold turkey with regard talking to her after he’d been accustomed to speaking to her for a few hours every evening. Wean him off her gradually. Those are just my thoughts. To hastened to divorce over a marriage that may not ever take place, may not be the thing to do. PATIENCE. Let’s see what Allah says.

    “Whoever fears Allah, Allah will find a way out for him (from every difficulty) and He will provide for him from sources that he could never have imagined.”
    [Quran 65:2-3]

    You don’t have to find a way out. Be patient and Allah will find a way out for you.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    April 28, 2011

    Zahrah, As Salaamu Alaikum!

    I feel you. I know exactly what you’re going through, especially since your husband is away with her and her family. I could see it being a bit more bearable, if it was just her that he was with, but to live it up with her parents as well. You know how bent out of shape I got when I thought Alex was going to take Carolinah on a vacation. I freaked out about it, and after all that; it didn’t even come to fruition – not because of anything I did. I feel I need to keep something special that is just for him and me and I thought vacations were it, especially since she had indicated she’d rather stay home than go away and she was aware he and I always go away.

    It’ll be OK, Zahrah. Just try to stay focused on the big picture and what’s most important. You’re expecting now and we’re all looking forward to you having a beautiful, healthy baby. So, don’t stress over him and her happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Cindy

    April 28, 2011

    ASA LADIES, As to ana’s question about husbands asking for divorce I have this to say…..Hubby has asked me the past 3 daysthat were mine if he could call my ms.p, I asked him if it was an emergency and he stated “NO” so i said no it is my day…Sorry, today he called anyway and said “Sorry” I have not spoken to her today and I amcalling her and will speak with her. I said “WOW” thank you so much for your respect of the “Schedual” this is after she called at 10pm on “MY” night a couple days ago then hung up after waking me/him up so of course he gets up along with me and my 3yr old so that he could make sure she was ok. (I was not to upset about it because I thought it might have been an emergency my self. When she picked up he asked her why she called and she said “OH DID I? MUST HAVE AN ACCIDENT” So of course he was on phone for 1/2 hr saying its ok don’t worry about it blah blah. Here is a small taste of what is to come for me…OH I do not think so. I politely said that I will retain a lawyer asap. If they refuse to follow a simple phone schedual I definetly know they will not follow any type of schedual in the future when the ARE ACTUALLY MARRIED. I know in my heart that Allah is showing me my future. I can no longer believe in him/her and I am sad….sad

  • Ana

    April 28, 2011

    My question is what would we do, if our husbands come home tomorrow and say they want a divorce surprise ?

    Allah, could shock the day light out of us, if He wants to. Let us keep bellyaching worried and see what happens.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    April 28, 2011

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Peace to All,

    I love the Iyats from Quran that Lynn cited: “Whoever fears Allah, Allah will find a way out for him (from every difficulty) and He will provide for him from sources that he could never have imagined.”
    [Quran 65:2-3]

    It’s what we all need to hear right now. We worry ourselves to death about this life (polygamy) we’re living, wondering should we stay or should we leave. I was discussing again with my friend the question. What do I really need to stay for? – and blah, blah, blah. I ask myself the same question every now and again – should I stay or should I leave? I have no reason to leave, other than being a part of polygamy. The Iyat has the answer. We don’t have to figure anything out. If we’re having difficulties, Allah will find a way out for us. Allah will reveal the answer to us and he will provide for us. We need to stop stressing ourselves out about it.

    You stated, “Ms. P had ever texted me, “If i am destined to marry a married man with 4 kids … what to do? i have to accept Allah’s decision right?” There is some truth in what she said. I doubt anyone would want to share a husband!” I agree with you, Lynn, there is some truth to what she said. As least the woman your husband married has a clue about the teachings of Islam and she’s someone you could work with in the future in an effort to serve Allah, Insha Allah.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Cindy

    April 28, 2011

    Asa Zahrah,

    I am sorry to hear that you are down recently but do try to cheer up. Do not be-little yourself for your feelings of hatred towards your husbands second. You do have valid reasons to “hate” her at this time. If I remember correctly she delibrately set out to seduce your husband. Remember that you do not ever have to be her friend (but maybe you will someday, only Allah knows) just give your salams to her and you will performing your islamic duty to her. Inshallah you will forgive them both (for your own sanity) – BIG HUG

  • Cindy

    April 28, 2011

    sad Asa Nura, Sounds to me as if you recieved a “rude awakening” in regard to your hubby….Cheer up he may be just a man but it sounds to me like he is a GOOD JUST MAN….Hugs

  • Alya

    April 28, 2011

    @zahrah, that was very deep that I had to reply because I know exactly how you feel. I feel the same way, many time I want to run away and I regularly have blogged about my hate towards the other woman. The truth is that she is innocent in this and she is not to blame and even is she knew what she was doing marrying a Married man then she still would not be at fault. Do u remember what it was like when you first married your husband? Perhaps you should try to go back to being that way and he it may reignite something in him. There was some very good advice written above in the comments by Jenny and others on how they make their man bend for them. I followed some of it and it worked amazingly. There are just too many outside influences defining my marriage ao it’s not something that will make all the difference in my current situation but certainly if we sort things out and settle into our lives then I will come back to this post and follow that advice.

  • Zahrah

    April 28, 2011

    Assalamualaikum sisters, pray all are well n under Allah’s blessings. The more I read our sisters’ stories, the more it disgusts me of men. How cruel they are for not doing it right n for not being sensitive to us. Just like the terrorists who spoil the reputation of Islam with their ‘so called’ false jihad, men who indulge in polygamy but not doing it right is just the same – marring the beauty of polygamy. They believe polygamy is just about giving equal night time but fail to see that we need equal treatment too. I am at a low point in mood now – just like Ana n Lynn – old feelings of exasperation, desperation n hatred coming back to haunt me. I just don’t knw why I hate her so much. I just don’t knw why I can’t still forgive her. N I just don’t knw why I kept on thinking why this is happening to me. I wish I could just disappear frm his life n wish to see whether he suffers or not wit my absence. If he doesn’t, then all the better that I disappear. If he does, serves him right. He deserves every bit of it. And I knw if he suffers, she will suffer too coz he is the kind who will make people suffer wit him. My mind keeps telling me to run away wit my kids. But will my mind be free from him if I do?

  • nura

    April 28, 2011

    Sisters, its been a rough week. My husband was labeled as nearly “perfect” by our friend who has known him and his Mrs. #1 for years. She says he is one of the few men she knows that could do polygamy for the right reasons and properly.

    Well, he isn’t perfect. He is a man. Drove me nuts the other day about something stupid. He was going to study for his PMP with a friend after work (he is off work at 7pm). So, I ask him if he is going to eat out with Omar or is he coming home to eat. He gives me some non-committal answer and after about 5 more of them, me trying to get a yes or no out of him, I just said FINE, enjoy your dinner with Omar-because I had no idea what he meant. Turns out, he gets uptight when I want a time out of him. I am uptight about wasting my time cooking him a meal that will be spoiled. It was all kind of stupid but we went around being kind of pissy last night. I am still kind of pissy. What kind of man, when asked if he is coming home and when says “Are you planning on making something special tonight, feel free. Life is easy” What the heck does that mean? I am free to knock myself out cooking and he may or may not show up to eat it? He came home after 9pm. I don’t know if he ate or not, I never asked. If not, he is hungry now (fasting today).This is the man who once told me he likes to have dinner ready when he comes home (when might that be), who doesn’t like cooking smells (convinced that they make his asthma flare-never heard a wheeze out of him) and then says, it doesn’t matter when he comes home, he will eat something very simple. Which is it dude??? Grrr.
    He is frustrated too, but I don’t know what he wants out of me other than to be available to prepare odor free food at the drop of a hat. Sigh.

    I know you all have bigger fish to fry (don’t get me going on the ungutted frozen fish he caught months ago that he wants me to cook or give to “some poor people”. I gave it to the poor starving cats (there should be hasanet with feeding a cat, right?) I wouldn’t give that to people, doesn’t that seem revolting? A defrosting fish with guts? And do you know how hard it is to actually find POOR people in this country that are so desperate they’d WANT that fish? This is the richest country in the world. Sharing good food with neighbors is one thing, but yuk.
    I also told him the bit about food smells annoyed me and he looked hurt and acted like I wanted him to die of asthma. Nurses out there, he has no issues with perfume, but onions that were cooked an hour ago and which are now in plastic in the fridge, bug him. I am convinced this is in his head, though I didn’t exactly say that. I am trying to respect the smell issue, but the man is crazy for perfume, scented anything. Except candles.
    Ok, my rant is over. And I don’t have to fix lunch today. I prepared a bunch of onions, peppers and carrots to freeze and throw in food later so he won’t have the smell every time I make stuff. He is going to get a lot of sandwiches in his future. With no onions.

  • Lynn

    April 28, 2011

    @Ana – thank you ! actually i wanted to stay positive and enjoy every moment with my husband, but the thought of Ms. P kept bothering me; thus affecting my mood.

    And what you stated “We have to believe that Allah made the decision and not our husbands. We have to believe as Lynn’s husband related, we are as actors and Allah is the Director. We are like puppets on a string.” is so so true.

    Ms. P had ever texted me, “If i am destined to marry a married man with 4 kids … what to do? i have to accept Allah’s decision right?” There is some truth in what she said. I doubt anyone would want to share a husband!

    @Alya – Whoever fears Allah, Allah will find a way out for him (from every difficulty) and He will provide for him from sources that he could never have imagined.”
    [Quran 65:2-3]

    Don’t allow your hubby treats you like dirt. He should proudly acknowledge you as his wife, then the marriage is somehow fulfilled.

    Just had an x-tray this morning as the pain is too much to handle – can collect the report tomorrow. Still on medical leave and alhamdulillah i get to spend more private times with my hubby.

    happy

  • Ana

    April 27, 2011

    Jenny,

    I understand how you are discontented with the fact that she exists in your husband’s life; although he is not physically with her. The fact is she is his wife; they are married. We can rationalized all we want in an effort to convince ourselves that the other wife is insignificant, or that we are most important to our husbands. None of what we convince ourselves of, regarding the other wife, actually makes us feel a whole lot better. It just wasn’t the way we were taught marriage was supposed to be.

    I know I have so much more than Carolinah in every category anyone could name (spiritually, intellectually, materially, economically, physically, esthetically etc). I know he would choose me over her any day, if he was made to make a choice and I know he loves me more than her. I know I am his favorite wife. It doesn’t take away the fact that she is in his life, calling herself his wife and saying she is married to him. Yet, I’m grateful for all that I have. Just as you are grateful for being exclusively with your husband. Satan wants me to believe she is content with her life as it is. I know better. We are all human. She would have to be a firm, devout, staunch Believer to not be affected deeply by all of this; I know she is far, far from it.

    “Acceptance” that Lynn spoke of, is key. We have to truly come to accept that polygamy is good and that Allah has ordained it for those of us in it. We have to believe that Allah made the decision and not our husbands. We have to believe as Lynn’s husband related, we are as actors and Allah is the Director. We are like puppets on a string. It’s how we believe if we believe all was written or we could believe that Allah sits on high, watching everyone run about doing as they please. We’re not all going to believe the same and it’s OK. If we truly BELIEVE that it wasn’t our husbands’ decision (but an illusion that it was – Remember Satan creates false illusions that seems real) we will have accepted and our affairs will be disposed of by Allah Who will give us comfort and ease happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in..

  • Jenny

    April 27, 2011

    @ Alya,

    My heart goes out to you! {Hugs} Ana and Khadijah had it right. You can’t let this continue. As Huda said, you’ll be labelled a whore and your reputation and that of your child will be ruined. This is one thing that is part of a Muslim woman’s identity — her modesty, so he is attacking the very core of your being.

    Please listen to their advice. First and foremost, keep yourself safe!

  • Jenny

    April 27, 2011

    Lynn and Ana, Lord knows, I feel like you both. You know, I should be the last one to ever complain on this blog, because Hubs is with me exclusively, I don’t have to deal with schedules and sharing. Yes, the sheer thought if he ever was with her drives me insane (I silently and often thank Allah for Herpes); however, really, it boils down to just knowing the sheer existance of her. That’s what drives me crazy. Just knowing she is there. Often times I really question my sanity and want to demand that he divorce her. So, instead of saying it, I just give him a ration of sh*t instead.

    I had an eye opener a few days ago. To keep it simple, I’ll just say I had a very rough business matter I had to handle, and if it wasn’t handled in the most delicate way, it would have not gone well for me. I had to make the most hellacious decision. It was causing me stress, and Hubs called me and told me that he was behind me 100%, whether I was right or wrong he was my cheerleader and would do anything I needed him to do. He knew the stress this was causing me and I was just in awe of the things he was doing to take the stress off me and how he was trying to handle it himself. He really went above and beyond the call of duty.

    I don’t know what I did in my life to warrant such a man in my life. This man NEVER gives up on me (he stalked me for two months until I agreed to out with him), he refuses to hear about my past (he said whatever happened up until the second I met him doesn’t matter) and ANY problem I ever have, he is there to make it better.

    My business dilemma was resolved in my favor and it couldn’t have gone better, Alhumdililah. The whole time, I was pinching myself because whatever goes wrong, the one person in my corner is my husband. I truly don’t know why I deserve such a man in my life.

    So, in reading everyone’s posting, I don’t like polygamy and if I was living it in the true sense of the word, I wouldn’t have the strength in me. But I know I can deal with the cards I was dealt because I realized just what a big chunk my husband is in my life. So, for myself, whenever I get into that funk, I’m going to remember how he dealt with MY business problem and how he jumps in front of me ALWAYS to take the heat. Maybe, just maybe, I can keep my BIIIIIIG mouth shut.

    Scary thing happened today and I was glad I was able to rescue Hubs for once. He has a condition that flares up every year and it causes his knee excruciating pain so he cannot walk. He crawled to the doctor and the doctor gave him a prescription for an injectable steriod. He dropped it off at the pharmacy and it wouldn’t be ready until this evening.

    I went home, picked it up, and was getting ready to give it to hubs and I looked at the bottle out of habit (ex-nurse). Really, how many people look at the stuff the pharmacist gives them? They think it’s correct. It turned out to be Depo-Estridol. If I gave him that, it would have not turned out well for him. It’s a female hormone, but it is used in men for prostate cancer and it would have fried his testicles if I gave it to him, if it didn’t kill him first.

    Now that it’s done and over (the pharmacist was crying on the phone to me), Hubs was teasing me if I would have stayed married to him if his “winkie” got fried. sad I gave him the most honest answer I’ve ever given anyone in my life — yes I would stay married to him. happy

  • Ana

    April 27, 2011

    Lynn, every now and again I feel the way you do, usually when it’s that time of the month. Like yesterday, I was thinking, I don’t need to take this #$%^. I was feeling that way since I came back from vacation. It angered me that I had to come back to this craziness. But then I think as you do; there is no guarantee, if I were to leave. Now, if I was being abused or didn’t love my husband, or my husband didn’t love me or a whole host of other things, then I’d leave for better. But, if everything else besides polygamy (sharing) is better than good, why leave?

    As long as we are Muslim there’s no guarantee that we won’t end up in polygamy again, unless we put a clause in the marriage contract that we won’t tolerate it and then we’d be right where we never wanted to be – making unlawful that which Allah has made lawful. So, what? We meet a man, have the clause, divorce and start right back all over again? There is no “happily ever after” for anyone, whether monogamous or polygamous and anyone that says there is, is lying.

    Lynn, you don’t know how fortunate you are to have him gone to be with her for only six nights a month. she gets three nights every seventeen days. There are some here that have husbands gone a month or more at a time. We have to expect our husbands will be just and fair with the other wives too (however just and fair has been defined in each marriage.) I don’t know what to say that will make it easier for you. I think we just have to go through it and continue to get better. Huda cracked me up about the kangaroo. It was an excellent analogy.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • huda

    April 27, 2011

    Asalaam Alaikum Alya

    Incredible indeed. Problem is Alya, she is under that impression now because you went along with your husband’s lie, now she probably thinks you’re SMS is a lie.

    I agree with all the advice given on this blog, especially okhti Khadijah when she said gather all your marriage papers and make copies, because that is your evidence that nobody can deny. I would even goes as far as giving her a copy to make her believe you.

    I know it is very hard being the one who exposes truths, especially when its not your job to tell, it’s an awful task; we don’t want to feel bad or guilty about hurting someone else’s feelings. But honey nobody is thinking about your feelings, your reputation, you have to do it for yourself.

    WELL DONE for taking the steps to be honest, you did good so don’t feel bad about any of it. Do what you have to do to defend your position as his first wife and your unborn baby and Inshallah, things will work out. If she leaves him so be it, it’s not your worry, it’s his. If you decide to leave him, that’s your choice. If you all manage to resolve this and stay together then Alhamdulillah as long as you don’t go along with any of his lies and maintain your dignity.

    Thoughts are with you Alya

  • Alya

    April 27, 2011

    She just called ‘me’ a house wrecker. Absolutely incredible.

  • Alya

    April 27, 2011

    I told her via SMS and she is very upset. If someone is reading this and is contemplating a secret marriage or courtship, do not accept. Please do not accept this for yourself because it will never end well and every woman deserves a fulfilling marriage. It is not worth the pain you cause yourself and the pain it will cause others.

  • Ana

    April 27, 2011

    Alya, I could imagine how confused you are right now. Everything happening so fast all at once. I agree with Mohummad Yaaseen that, at this point, you need to take a look at the man you’re married to and not polygamy. You said he has oppressed you for ten years, which is apparent by the way he is still treating you.

    He was relieved of the burden of telling his other wife about you because you took the initiative and got that part done. Now she knows, as does her mother. Now he wants to lie again and deny that he is married to you although the truth was revealed. He wants to counter the truth and make it falsehood. He wants her to decide to accept you and if she does you will will be the second wife. Like Okhti K said, you will be the ho (whore) that had a baby by her husband, if you pretend not to be married and marry later as the second wife.

    This man has no regard or respect for you whatsoever. Is this the type of man you want to live your life with? I know it’s extremely difficult for you now, as you are pregnant. It could be a sign that you should stay and make the marriage work, but you can’t do it based on lies. You need to tell her the whole truth – that you are married to him; that you are the first wife; that you are pregnant. He doesn’t want her to know all those things probably because he fears losing her. But, what about you? If you do as he asks you to right now – to continue to lie, you can only expect to be his slave and you will have no rights. He’ll see you when ever he wants and give you whatever scraps are left over from her, if any. As difficult as it is, you have to stop thinking with emotions and be rational.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Khadijah Z

    April 27, 2011

    Alya then you need to start with your self by standing up for your self and your rights along with you parents if they will. Make him acknowledge his unborn child get copies of your marraige papers and make copied of them before he try’s to dispose of them and get on the ball not just for your own sake but the sake of your child.

    Also get a cell phone or small recorder and record your conversation of him in this matter with out him knowing it, so you have your back up proofs.

    If you continue to just sit and complain doing nothing for your self then your accepting to be a part of his big lie in his life and there for your accepting all the consequences of his lies of which i guarantee his 2nd who thinks she is the 1st will trash you, your name and even your child, ok!!
    Do you really want to be know as the gutter skank who purposely got HER husband into your bed and got preg… well do you???
    People can be very dirty and nasty if you allow them to be, so protect your self and stop allowing it to happen.

    You still have choices you can stay to him or leave him even with a child but get your rights in either way and make sure he supports that child weather you and he are together or not. The child is not in fault and is in fact the victim in all of this, so accept or go, but you will also be in fault by allowing this game of his and lies to continue… Protect your self and your child especially if he has already denied the child as being his. i dont no what country or where your at but there are laws to protect you as long as you do not let it take over you in this way
    I myself would not allow any man to control my life this way or Deni my child, id take him to court and expose his games then see who is the fool.

    But if you want to just sit and wine of it and allow it to continue ill not feel sorry for you any longer :-M

  • Alya

    April 27, 2011

    I guess I am really hurt because he denied that him and I are married and he denied my baby

  • Lynn

    April 27, 2011

    If there is a guarantee that life would be better after a divorce I would leave my hubby. The problem now is I am still so much in love with him and I am worried I will not be able to cope with a divorce and might feel even worst than now.

    I believe anything is possible – it’s up to Allah.

  • Alya

    April 27, 2011

    Yes I don’t know why it is that when I decide I want to leave him, I just had to find out I’m pregnant. He has been very nice for someone I see once a week, and have generally oppressed me for 10 years. I just want my 10 years back and I want to be able to find someone good and honest.

  • Mohummud Yaaseen

    April 27, 2011

    @ Alya

    Assalaamu allaykum

    You are already married to the man. If you don’t want it no one can force you. However, ask yourself what type of husband he is aside from the polygamy issue. If he is a good husband, maybe stay in the relationship (good husbands are very hard to find). If he is a horrible husband (ill treats you, abuses you etc..) leave him. Many women are married to men in monogamous marriages and are still unhappy. Just try, with Allah help, to wrap your head around the polygamy issue or at least see it as separate from any other marital issues.

  • Khadijah Z

    April 27, 2011

    @ Alya you have a right to speak out and refuse you do not have to deal to this lie he is doing you have already told her mom you need to get it straight b4 he makes it worse

    Bcos if she refuses or finds out you pregnant she will spread lies about you of your dirty deeds to HER husband to stead him from her. stand up for your self okhti im getting so angry right now

  • Alya

    April 27, 2011

    I read all your comments as they come through on my mobile but don’t respond immediately. Honestly I read them over and over. Things had a massive turn of events since I told my co-wife’s mother. Anyhow my husband brought my co-wife to my home so we could meet. It was so horrible. She wasn’t very nice at first but then she was very nice and actually said she would consider a 2nd. Yes well my husband told her he wasn’t married to me. I had to play along. Anyhow it looks like she will accept this. But the truth is that reality has just sunk in for me and I don’t want this. I don’t want polygamy at all and I just want to leave. This is so horrible and I don’t want this marriage or this child, May Allah forgive me.

  • Ana

    April 27, 2011

    Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    Thank you, Huda!!! happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • huda

    April 27, 2011

    Asalaam Alaikum

    Mabrouk means “congratulations” in Arabic.

  • Ana

    April 26, 2011

    Jenny, men are funny that way. I hear Alex “mumbling under his breath” sometimes when I’m discussing something with him. I’ll ask, “What did you say?” He’ll reply, “Oh, nothing.” It’s funny. laughing You would think I was talking to my kid.

    Congratulations to all the pregnant ladies in the house!
    thumbs up

    Okhti K, excuse my ignorance, but please tell me what “Mabrouk” means.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Jenny

    April 26, 2011

    @ Alya,

    What did hubby say when you told him? I am so proud of you for talking to the other wife! happy You have come a long way!

    Don’t feel bad about what you did. You did what you had to do. Living a life based on a lie is not the way to have a life. Now that you are going to be a mommy, if you had moved into that ridiculous arrangement he wanted you in, could you imagine how that now could have turned out?

    If you don’t treat yourself with self-respect, don’t think your husband will either. You have to lay the ground work.

    I do have to admit, (and Lynn, this goes to you too) that I slam my foot down to demand that respect. Sometimes Hubs will be grouchy and I’ll hear him mumbling curse words in Urdu. I will yell at him, “You may talk to your bit*h in Pakistan that way, but you won’t talk to me that way!” Honestly, I don’t know how he spoke to her, but the way I say it, he snaps out of it in a second. “Oh, I didn’t say anything.” laughing

  • Cindy

    April 26, 2011

    Congratulations ladies happy

  • Khadijah Z

    April 26, 2011

    Salaam @ Cindy okhti sorry was not ignoring you just running in and out winking

    Can We All Say Mabrouk to ALL the MOMMYS in the HOUSE the expecting ones that is hee hee

  • Khadijah Z

    April 26, 2011

    @ Alya again he is at fault in this your rights were taken from you by him and this is a sin in its self.
    His lies are catching up to him and Allah is the guide and will be the one to make it right in either way it goes.
    Just take care of your self and your child, and stop feeling guilty for telling the truth and protecting your self and your unborn child your the 1st not the other sister she is the 2nd and it is time for him to stop his games

  • Ana

    April 26, 2011

    Alya, Huda’s right! You’ve done nothing wrong. You did the right thing. You were no girlfriend/mistress on the side, having an affair with a married man. You were and are his wife. You were his wife before her. You’re in a respectable position. She needed to know about you. He can now stop hiding and lying. He can now stand up and be a man and take responsibility for what he has the two of you in. You’re no traitor. You did what is right, what is Islamically correct. Anytime your mind tells you that you were wrong in revealing the truth, know it is the whispers of Satan, telling you that. You mustn’t listen. You’re not at fault for anything. Remember that. Squash those thoughts that are bad. You did good!

    He may be angry with you for a while, but it’s natural. Let him deal with her and her family on this. Give him some time. Don’t apologize to him for anything you’ve done. You must demand respect from him. It’s a good beginning for you. Make sure his doesn’t harm you. Let your mom know, if he begins to abuse you. You shouldn’t tolerate that.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • huda

    April 26, 2011

    Asalaam Alya

    STOP feeling guilty! You have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to feel bad about. I really believe ALLAH (SWT) intended this pregnancy for a reason, to remove all skeletons from the closet and reveal the truth for all concerned. However it ends is no reflection on you or your actions. Concentrate on keeping strong and healthy for yourself and the baby Inshallah, the rest will be sorted out one way or another. It is not your concern to deal with your husband’s reponsibilities and problems.

    much salaam

  • Alya

    April 26, 2011

    I feel so horrible fo having told her the truth. I feel like a traitor and just so bad. I don’t think everything will end well at all.

  • Alya

    April 26, 2011

    Thank you, congratulations to all the other pregnant sisters. I did tell him. My mother called the other wife’s mother and told her to come to my house. I was shocked when she came to my door as she missed my husband by like minutes. I told her everything and this sister was in complete and utter shock. She wants for my husband to choose between the two wives and divorce one though she believes her daughter will not stay.

    I have never

  • Khadijah Z

    April 26, 2011

    Mabrouk @ Alya you cant now divorce till after your child is born this is b Allah. You now have to make your marraige known to all even the 2nd wife as this is another reason why Allah saying no secrets of marriage. I pray all goes well for you if you still decided to continue the divorce and yes you have to tell him, his family and your family of the baby coming this is a fact.
    He brought it all on himself.
    After the baby is born if you still fell to divorce him then May Allah protect you always from the evils of such people driven by shataan, Ameen

  • huda

    April 26, 2011

    Asalaam alaikum

    Alya, congratulations! I have been reading up on your comments and the first thing you need to do is tell your husband, and that should shake him up a bit and make him realize that he has got to stop living this pathetic lie. He needs to be upfront now, and if he doesn’t then if I were you I would go and tell her myself. I would not allow myself to be shunned away by any man. Don’t give up any of your rights, don’t pretend to be the second wife and don’t allow yourself to be treated like a doormat. You are better than this, you deserve love and respect and Allah has given you a great gift. Start afresh, start as you mean to go on, keep firm and steadfast and Allah will guide you, Inshallah.

    SubhanAllah, Allah works in mysterious ways. It seems this pregnancy is the tonic needed to kick start things into motion, whatever the final result maybe. Allah knows best.

    much salaam

  • Ana

    April 26, 2011

    Alya, As Salaamu Alaikum,

    You have taken a very big step. What wonderful news; You reached out for advise from the Sheikh and it’s especially good news that you are expecting. Maybe pregnancy is contagious here happy. I’m going to need a journal to keep up with all the little bundles of joy that are on their way. I already have Jenny listed for October. I need to get a estimated date on Zahrah and were awaiting news on Nura and Huda. No pressure, Nura and Huda. Just be patient and wait on Allah.

    I hope you plan on telling your husband about the baby immediately, if you haven’t already done so. He needs to know and it’s incumbent upon you to tell him. We are not to hide what is in the womb. If I’m not mistaken, you can’t divorce while you’re pregnant either.

    I pray this is a new beginning for you Alya. Once his other wife knows the truth, the three of you could all begin to sort the whole thing out and move forward together or apart. You should feel very good right now. You stood up for yourself. We can’t let anyone pull us down and rob us of self-esteem. Always remember the other wife is no better than you, unless she is more righteous; that is it. You should get the same rights as her. Don’t be talked out of your rights, unless you truly, simply don’t want them. Stand tall and stand your ground – big hug {hug}

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Jenny

    April 26, 2011

    ASA Alya,

    Wow! Congratulations are in order!! It looks like pregnancy is blooming everywhere in our midst! Me, Zahrah and now you! We were just discussing your having children and having a life, remember? Allah is so wonderful!

    Now, how are you feeling first and foremost? What are your plans? Do you think you are going to stay or leave? I am glad you are going to tell the co-wife everything. Just be prepared that once she learns of your pregnancy, she may not be so nice to you. You may have a few bumps in the road ahead of you, but stay strong and keep your eyes on Allah (not your husband). He will direct your path, regardless what direction you want to take.

    Have you shared the news with anyone yet? Are you planning to? I am so happy for you! I hope you are feeling well. I’m still dragging a$$ around here. Tomorrow I have a doctor’s appointment, so I have to put on a bra and clothes again. I don’t think wearing a hijab with my pajamas is acceptable, do you? laughing

  • Alya

    April 26, 2011

    Thank you for giving me the courage to pursue my rights. I spoke to the sheikh and he advised khulu if I decide to leave or tell my cowife the truth should I decide to stay. Well I decided to leave on Saturday and have been trying to get a hold of the brother that did our marriage to do khulu. I asked my husband for divorce but he tried to win me back with his charm. Today I found out I’m pregnant. I must be about a month. He doesn’t know this yet. I’m so happy and I guess I’ll tell my cowife everything. I’m no longer scared and I just want to look out for my baby with or without him. Alhamdulillah

  • Jenny

    April 25, 2011

    Asa Cindy,

    You don’t have to defend anybody Cindy. happy Maybe it is just a fascination that will blow over. How long has this been going on? Maybe she’ll find someone else and move on. If this is going on for so long, does he have a plan? I mean without a plan and acting on it, maybe deep down, he’s unsure too. Just food for thought. {Hugs}

  • Cindy

    April 25, 2011

    Asa Jenny….Yeah 46 but I can not classify this as a midlife crisis as it has been going on a very long time on phone and only within the past 8 months or so on computer. I seriously doubt that they have done much more than that when he was visiting pakistan just because circumstances would not make it easy. I know it sounds like I am defending them, believe me I am not. It is wrong in any number of ways.

  • Cindy

    April 25, 2011

    Asa Khadijah…LOLhappy

  • Cindy

    April 25, 2011

    Asa Ana….I know what your saying about the pics and I totally agree with you. But remember I told him that I posted them on facebook…I can’t even begin to describe the look on his face. All I heard for three days was PLEASE PLEASE take them down, you don’t understand people can die over pics like that in pakistan! He claims that she didn’t know pics were being taken…The only odd thing about that was that in over half she was looking straight at the camera, all were dated the same day/time frame and she had changed from a very very revealing V neck top with assorted items in her mouth/tongue to some type of lingerie thingy that was completely sheer/see through so I certainly do not buy the statement about her not knowing that pics were being taken. I did mention to him “Are you sure that you are the only person she has ever “MODELED” He said “OF COURSE”!!!

  • Khadijah Z

    April 25, 2011

    I’m sorry for being so dam blunt but lately these DESPERATE so called strong Muslim women who are chasing a man wail he sits waiting for them to be his dirty lil secret, support him, PAY FOR HIS GREEN CARD be his fantasy relived all in the same bed together, wail he slums around town with da hoe next door it has just made me wonder to the sisters out there or any woman for that matter ” STOP BEGGING FOR A MAN WHO IS WORTHLESS IN ALL DEPARTMENTS” We are better then that even for Polygamy we are not dogs to be treated as if we should be grateful for them to want us ok helllooooo!!!

  • Jenny

    April 25, 2011

    @ Cindy

    Asalaamu Alaikum Cindy,

    As I was reading what you was telling me, I was having flash backs of my ex-husband. He was doing the same thing as your husband (I would guess your husband is in his mid 40s?). I ran across the pictures same as you. Except, the bit*ch that I am, I emailed them to her priest (she was Catholic), her parents, and I put them online, and emailed them to all her little buddies on Facebook. Then I emailed all the girlfriends the other girlfriends emails and pictures. I embarrassed her beyond belief, then I slept like a baby! Some people thought my behavior too unlady like, but I think the people who say that have not walked my road. See, the pictures came on MY COMPUTER as my ex was doing some kind of software mumbo jumbo and forgot he was chatting with her on my computer. I came home and wanted to check my email and it opened right up to those pics! That was how I learned of his infidelities.

    Also, when I went for my divorce, those lovely exhibits were “Exhibit A” along with all the emails. In the end, it turned out to be many women and I nailed his a$$ with all of them. He didn’t think I would have been savvy enough to print out everything and save it. I will never forget the look on his face when my lawyer dangled the pictures in the courtroom!! laughing The funniest ones were the naked ones of himself! Who does this crazy stuff?

    This taught me a lesson. The internet is a very dangerous place for lonely people or people with obsessive/addictive personalities. I whisper a thanks to Allah everytime my husband asks me to help him log onto his email, because he is so un-techno savvy. The only thing he does on the net is open the emails to our website and watch Pakistani music videos on You Tube. Other than that, he doesn’t know what in the heck he is doing with a computer, nor does he care. Praise to Allah for that! winking

  • Jenny

    April 25, 2011

    Asalaamu Alaikum Cindy,

    As I was reading what you was telling me, I was having flash backs of my ex-husband. He was doing the same thing as your husband (I would guess your husband is in his mid 40s?). I ran across the pictures same as you. Except, the bit*ch that I am, I emailed them to her priest (she was Catholic), her parents, and I put them online, and emailed them to all her little buddies on Facebook. Then I emailed all the girlfriends the other girlfriends emails and pictures. I embarrassed her beyond belief, then I slept like a baby! Some people thought my behavior too unlady like, but I think the people who say that have not walked my road. See, the pictures came on MY COMPUTER as my ex was doing some kind of software mumbo jumbo and forgot he was chatting with her on my computer. I came home and wanted to check my email and it opened right up to those pics! That was how I learned of his infidelities.

    Also, when I went for my divorce, those lovely exhibits were “Exhibit A” along with all the emails. In the end, it turned out to be many women and I nailed his a$$ with all of them. He didn’t think I would have been savvy enough to print out everything and save it. I will never forget the look on his face when my lawyer dangled the pictures in the courtroom!! laughing The funniest ones were the naked ones of himself! Who does this crazy stuff?

    This taught me a lesson. The internet is a very dangerous place for lonely people or people with obsessive/addictive personalities. I whisper a thanks to Allah everytime my husband asks me to help him log onto his email, because he is so un-techno savvy. The only thing he does on the net is open the emails to our website and watch Pakistani music videos on You Tube. Other than that, he doesn’t know what in the heck he is doing with a computer, nor does he care. Praise to Allah for that! winking

  • Khadijah Z

    April 25, 2011

    Only thing to comment on a woman who is suppose to be a Muslim exposing her self to a man or the world in such a way is a skanky hoe and she has already made it clear where she will be on the day!!

    It amazes me how to call ones self a Muslim wail spreading there legs to a camera and suppose to be a virgin!!!….. kinda sends your mind into over drive and wonder a virgin where???? …. no i think a Q-tip was in her ear…….. Nothing left untouched

  • Ana

    April 25, 2011

    But, Cindy, what’s far worst than the pics being on the computer for anyone to see is she is not even married to your husband, and has sent him pics like that. There is no guarantee that she will ever marry your husband and she has exposed herself to him in that way worried My oh my…

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    April 25, 2011

    Cindy, I totally know the shock you received when you eyeballed those pics. It’s grotesque to say the least. And it amazes me that people want to come to the defense of those that have those porn pics out there. If they were only meant for someone else eyes, then why did our eyes come upon them? Regardless of whether we found them innocently or not, how is a modest, chaste Muslim women all out there that way? Ooops, I guess she wasn’t all that modest and chaste.

    Nonetheless, anyone can get their hands on photos that are left on computers and cell phone. She should just thank Allah that your husband didn’t take the computer to the shop for repairs and none of those geek guys got their hands on those pics.

    Alex and I spoke about C’s nasty pics while we were on vacation. I admitted to him that I showed them to two people. One said her boobs looked “deformed”. Ok, ok I was wrong to show them, but she wasn’t under Allah’s protection when He allow those photos to come in my (her rival’s) possession – just like I got her passport photo with all her personal information on it.

    I moved Alex and me to a new house when he was away out of the country on business for a years. I sought through his photos and found a couple of his ex-wife with her boobs hanging out. She didn’t have much up top, but they were exposed. We as women can’t have our stuff out there like that and think we’ll fall under Allah’s protection and they won’t find there way into the hands of those they weren’t meant for.

    It’s a blessing your son wasn’t exposed to those photos worried It would have been a shocker and a whole lot more for him surprise

    I mentioned Alex’s stepson caught him and Carolinah doing the nasty when the stepson was younger and Carolinah and Alex were dating before he met me. She’s always getting caught in some compromising position; no pun intended.

    I’m so happy to hear you’re doing better, Cindy. Hang in there. Everything will be alright. At least he’s making progress. It’s a good thing – baby steps, baby steps, baby steps.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    April 25, 2011

    As Salaamu Alaikum Everyone and Peace to All!

    Okhti K, yes, you most certainly did say it well! Well done! Well done!

    Alya, he knows he has a lot of control and influence over you and you are easily swayed, which is why, as Okhti K said, he made you a second, instead of the first that you are. No woman wants to be a secret, nor deserves to be one. You accepted it then, but you don’t need to accept it now. It is so wrong that he has demeaned you by leading you to believe the Arab girl is better than you. She is not better than you because she is Arab. The only gauge for someone being more honorable or above another is righteousness. The better person is the most righteous. The way he’s treating you has nothing to do with righteousness; he believe he had to marry an Arab because she is better.

    The Prophet Muhummad (PBUH) in his last sermon said:

    “All Mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not therefore do injustice to yourselves.”

    You must stand up for yourself, Alya. If he walks (leaves), let him walk. Put your faith and trust in Allah and serve Him and He will give you better.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Cindy

    April 25, 2011

    Asa Khadijah….Mashallah, Well said happy

  • Khadijah Z

    April 25, 2011

    Hello people @ Alya it is obvious that if the 2nd were to agree to be a 2nd he would not of made it all a secret and admittedly to keep your marraige to him a secret means his eventual marraige to the 2nd was already in progress, and why in the hell dose this man get away with sins such as this when Allah say no marraige should be secret…
    A sin is a sin, and anyone who lies is committing a sin… Allah saying “do not fallow what your husband or even what your own mother tells you to do if you no it is a sin” or it falls on your head!
    Get it up woman you have rights as a Muslim, as a wife, as a woman period do not allow him or his family to make a joke of you stand up for your self in your life.
    Allah gave you a brain to do this so do it, other wise you will only bring more on your self. if she leaves him “o” well this is his fault he can not blame anyone but himself in this and if he puts one friggin hand on you put his A** in jail protect your self and your rights. Your not weak if you were you would not of come to us looking for help, Allah is giving you a choice to go on the right path dont fall for shataans whispers to you to fear your husband instead of fearing Allah

  • Cindy

    April 25, 2011

    Asa Jenny,

    Thanks for asking happy Some days are better than others as we all know. Phone calls are now every other day which is at least tolerable now and down from 3 hrs to 1 1/2 so that is good. I did find some pretty disgusting pics on his computer that freaked me out for a week or so. (no, I was not snooping he asked me to “fix” his laptop as he was not able to get online for a while. He gave it to me along with the password and the pics were right there for anyone to see…even my 15yr old son who uses our laptops for school sometimes. (I think he forgot they were there)lol. Anyway I was pretty calm about it but did inform them that I posted them on my facebook so our (whole) family could be as proud of them as I am lol. (I didn’t but he doesn’t know that happyI did however make copies with the dates visible…I know I am crazy but as I said I am TWISTED. Also I informed him that I have been trying to set up a meeting with the imam of our local mosque (HE SO ISN’T HAPPY ABOUT THAT) But hey what am I supposed to do…I need a wali…As a matter of fact I WANT ANA’s WALI!! Just kidding LOL.. Take care of yourself and the babies happy

  • Jenny

    April 25, 2011

    @ Cindy,

    I’ve been thinking about you! Are things getting a bit better for you? I sure hope so! {Hugs} happy

  • Cindy

    April 24, 2011

    Ayla….I guess we all agree on this one which is actually kind of rare happy Speak with her and tell her you are his wife and OH YEAH his first at that. I have a real hum-dinger of a husband and have put up with much but this my friend is completly unacceptable even for my twisted sense of reality lol. You and she both deserve better….Inshallah all will be well for you both.

  • Ana

    April 24, 2011

    Alya, I agree that you should leave him as quickly as possible or tell her that you are his first wife; otherwise, there is no hope for your marriage. If you acquiesce to him, you can simply expect to be his personal slave. He will have no respect for you, whatsoever. You would be going into this thing with your eyes wide open and he will think he has no reason to give you your rights or anything. How could he respect you, when you won’t respect yourself? He’s asking you to hide and lie. It’s totally unacceptable. To agree to what he asked is to agree to be mistreated and abused. If he wanted to give you your right and treat you decently as his wife, he wouldn’t hide you and ask you to lie etc.

    I don’t care; I’d get this over and done with once and for all. I would tell her who you are and what you are – his wife. Then you can all move forward or go your separate ways. It needs to come to a head. It all needs to be brought to light and there is nothing wrong with you being the one to reveal it.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • nura

    April 24, 2011

    I think that there needs to be a conversation between Ayla and the second wife and SOON. I doubt SHE would accept any of this nonsense and will soon end the issue herself. Let her. Then consider whether this man is worth your trouble-and leave him with no one. After making your role as his wife clear to the community. It is your right to do so-you are his legal wife and you would not be doing anything wrong to be open about it from what I understand. He doesn’t like it? He did wrong here. Not you. Not her. You are both innocent in this. Bring your parents, her parents and her together to meet. I don’t know about him. I bet you two women could figure out a way to make this right. NOT that I am a betting woman.happy

  • Jenny

    April 24, 2011

    Hello Alya,

    Wow! What a compromise! I hate to tell you, I wouldn’t do it. No way would I lie about being the second. As the second wife (even among poly friendly people), you will hear a lot of blah, blah, blah. I deal with it all the time.

    Second of all, living with her? What is he nuts? First of all, what is HER reaction to all this? If you were to follow through with this plan, I would insist on meeting her first. You have no idea what she has been told or what her reaction to this insanity will be. She may leave him and not have a part in this.

    I think his wanting you to lie is to protect something more important to him than you (the other one). I’m sorry to say, I would be out of there — after I run my mouth and she knows about me.

  • Alya

    April 23, 2011

    Thank you for your concerns, I’m well. Quite fed up but it seems like my option is to openly say I am the second wife to her and everyone that asks. For us all to live in the same dwelling and everything would be divided equally. I’m guessing she won’t handle the fact that she wasn’t his first wife which is understandable. I’m certainly ready to pack my things and leave him but I guess I’m waiting for something to come about. I wouldn’t be a secret anymore however I don’t feel comfortable saying I’m a second and enduring al the rubbish comments from people in our community when it’s not even true. Nor do I feel comfortable living in the same dwelling. I would rather she come to my home as it’s a two story house whereas she is in a small apartment. He wants me to give this a try and if someone does disrespect me then he believes he would tell them the truth. What would you do? Would you accept this for the sake of receiving your rights to time and saving your marriage?

  • Nura

    April 16, 2011

    whoa, that was a quick google. I would not suggest doing that-the woman ended up dead, he just had some blisters on his back.

  • Nura

    April 16, 2011

    I’m afraid to ask who Al Green is. I will google Al green and grits. Yikes.

  • Khadijah Z

    April 15, 2011

    yeah he got the grits plate special after abusing his wife and cheating on her, she made him sing a real high note laughing

    i was a teen when that happened i still remember thinking to myself wow that was a great move ill have to remember that if i ever need it winking

  • Ana

    April 15, 2011

    Ohkti K, laughing stop making me laugh. You’re terrible hee hee do an Al Green on him…stop. You’re killing me laughing For those that aren’t familiar with Al Green, here is a brief article http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/soul-singer-al-green-is-attacked-in-his-own-bathtub

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Khadijah Z

    April 15, 2011

    Asalaam Alaykum, Jummah Mubarak may Allah accept all your prayers this day and every day, Ameen

    @ Alya okhti listen once they put there hands on you in such a way, take you for granted, and expect you to lie for him and give up your rights the HoneyMoon is over, let it go and do what you can to help yourself.
    Get your rights of a divorce sorry it is a sin to tell anyone to leave or divorce but in this case i ask Allah to forgive me and pray for your well being.

    Your still young and you waited 10yrs for what?? To be shoved in the basement, neglected and abused i think not. Take the offers from your family for help get educated and Allah will ease your burdens and send you better some one who will treat you as you should be treated and believe me if it were me id make sure the other wife new of you, would of got a big cast iron skillet on his head, or hot grits in his friggin lap do a Al Green on him. But the pending divorce and of the lies and abuse you have endured so the rest will be in her ball court and if she dose not leave him also its her problem not yours worry and take care of you and the Prophet would never allow any man to treat any woman like that not even of a kufir woman. it is really sad that these brothers lie, use and abuse so many sisters sneaking around disrupting the sisters Eman, it is a shame in its self.

  • Nura

    April 15, 2011

    Alya,
    I was busy and somehow missed your story until just now. Wow, I am sorry for the trials you have been facing. I don’t have any good advice other than to protect yourself, enlist parents (both sides) to tell him how to behave and treat you properly. If you divorce, you have cause and he should not deny you any of your rights. He is behaving unislamically and cruelly and criminally. I hope you stand up for yourself sister. That is not how a man is to act. Muslim or Kuffir!

  • Jenny

    April 15, 2011

    @ Alya,

    I hope you check in soon and let us know that you are okay and what is going on with you! We might be a blog group, but we check on each other all the time! happy

    I know you are going through a tough time, but you are not alone and I promise you, a day will come when you can smile again and be happy. Just keep your eyes on Allah! happy

  • Lynn

    April 15, 2011

    Dear Alya

    My husband is quick tempered too. He got worst under stressful condition after he married Ms. P and I wanted a divorce. But he didn’t lay his hand to hurt me. He would bring the house down, banging his fist on walls and threatening me with a chopper etc it was so scary and I have to call the police to threaten him.

    But things have improved tremendously – we hardly got into big fight. I stopped yelling coz i am so ready to leave him if it pleases Allah. He knows it too.

    Don’t allow yourself to be treated that way.

  • Mohummud Yaaseen

    April 15, 2011

    AA Alya

    I agree, leave him.

  • Ana

    April 14, 2011

    Alya, As Salaamu Alaikum!

    Jenny is right. How your husband has treated you is entirely wrong. It’s Islamically incorrect. He is wrong to ask you to live with that woman, to ask you to lie, and to make you a hidden secret. On top of it, to abuse you as he did is totally UnIslamic.

    Jenny is right, regarding the “honeymoon stage”. Your husband probably felt badly that he lost control of his emotions and acted out the way he did. He feared losing you, after it happen. Perhaps he was full of regret, and began treating you with love and care. It was only temporary, most likely. In cases like that the abuse usually always escalates. It’s a cycle of violence in that he’ll abuse you, make up with you and try to make everything seems beautiful (the honeymoon stage), but then the violence repeats itself; however, it only gets worst.

    You are not to obey your husband is he doesn’t obey Allah. Allah tells us not to listen to those that neglect the remembrance of Him. Your husband does not remember Allah when he tells you to lie, when he keeps you a hidden secret, does not give you your rights, and abuses you.

    Your husband has shown you who is priority and it is not you. It apparently is his other wife, and his parent’s and her parents. He treats you as the girlfriend/mistress. Do you think that is really going to change?

    I’d suggest you pray to Allah that He guides you to what is best. Your husband is only looking out for what is best for him and his other wife. He is also concerned about pleasing his parents and her parents.

    Focus, not on your husband, but focus on Allah. You need all the help that you can get from Allah right now. I’m sorry if what I said seems way harsh to you. I don’t want to hurt you, but I don’t want to lie either. I pray Allah forgives me, if I said anything in correct, I only intend to do good and say what is right.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Jenny

    April 14, 2011

    Asalaamu Alaikum Alya,

    Actually if I would be so forward to speak my mind, forgive me if I am being too blunt (it is my major fault), but I would run from this man as if my shoes were on fire!!! surprise And I will tell you why:

    First, violence is unacceptable. Domestic violence usually starts verbally or mild violence. The next time it will be worse. If you let if happen once, it will happen again. Of course, there is a “honeymoon period” where is so apologetic and loving. It is a circle that goes round and round. Also, the Prophet (pbuh) would not approve of abuse. You did nothing wrong where he could justify his behaviour.

    Second, he is asking you to lie and hide your marriage which goes against Islam. If you moved into this crazy living arrangement, how can he explain to the other woman when you want your rights to a night?? Food for thought. You will become a glorified maid. Moreover, your rights should be to a seperate house. I know couples who all lived together, but they were all in on it and it was peaceful. She don’t know about you and trust and believe that when she finds out, she will be going off the deep end! I don’t want you to get hurt from either party and this is the mother of all recipes for disaster!

    Ignoring his calls and not seeing him is the smartest thing you can do! If he is lying to you, can you imagine the lies he is telling her? She isn’t the enemy here, she has no idea what in hell is going on. If he is acting like this so she don’t find out, that means he is putting her before Allah, as he is more fearful of her reaction than Allah.

    Apparently, from the way I see things, he wants his cake and eat it too. He figured he played with you for so long, he could control you. You deserve to have a husband next to you at night and to have children and a life. Sorry to say, he is treating you like a mistress. I would move on while I still had my youth. One of two things will happen: you will either remarry and be happy, or he will get his $hit together and do right.

    Please have a happy day! I don’t like it when my sisters here are sad! crying

  • Alya

    April 14, 2011

    He agreed to give me my rights but I have to move in with the girl and him and I have to agree to tell the girl that I’m not married and that I come from a different city and befriend her. I disagreed so he shook me around and pulled my hair and I think he grabbed my throat but didn’t hurt me. He was apologetic and said that he would provide me with a separate dwelling if I wanted to. I told him I didn’t want to speak to him again and have since ignored his calls. What should I do? Am I being unreasonable?

  • Nura

    April 13, 2011

    In Qatar it is required for a legal(I should say officially recognized as a contract marriage is not illegal when it doesn’t involve the state) marriage to be tested for STD’s and genetic incompatibility. Not everything, but the things that they can figure out in a week. The test is paid for by the state (govt of Qatar) for anyone, expat or Qatari.

  • Mohummud Yaaseen

    April 13, 2011

    About the AIDS issue

    Muslim men and women advised to marry men and women who are chaste. Chaste men to chaste women, unchaste men to unchaste women. That is the verdict in the Quran.

    Now lets say a women is unchaste her whole life then decides she has reformed and now wants to marry a chaste man, should he marry her? After all she repented and mended her ways?

    My answer would be, NO. He shouldn’t marry her because exposure to sin changes a person beyond return even though God may forgive that person. In other words such a person can marry another person who has a similar scenario.

    One exception, I think, would be when someone enters Islam after having been sinful. Then the past experience of sin no longer matters because the person can claim it against their having been ignorant about religion. However, they should test for STD’s.

    Finally, if men are intending to be polygamous then they should have their wives tested before they marry them should either party have reason to believe they could be infected with any STD. However, to take the sigma and also the impression that one is assuming that someone else is sinful and therefore demanding a test, it should just be made a rule for all couples intending to get married. Both should have themselves tested. Ironically, I never did have myself tested ever, nor my wife. But then we didn’t have any reason to suspect either of us would have an STD.

  • Mohummud Yaaseen

    April 13, 2011

    AA sisters

    About who is a Muslim. As a rule, anyone who testifies that there is no God except Allah and that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah (s) is a Muslim until there is evidence that such a person disbelieves in one of the basic principals of Islam, like belief in the Here After or they disbelieve in the laws of Islam through their testimony and not their actions (as we cannot judge that).

  • Ana

    April 12, 2011

    No one is safe out there anyway we look at it. It’s not even safe in a marriage anymore. No telling who is going to stray and catch it and give it to the wife/wives or vice versa. What loyalty would someone with AIDS that may die sooner than later have to another? They feel, if they have it, why not you? All they want to do is enjoy themselves the short period they have left on this earth and that means, using no condom. It’s a sad state of affairs. All we can do is seek Allah’s protection.

    Okhti K, I don’t know what you could tell her to help get her back on the mustaqueen. I really don’t know sad Perhaps, someone else here knows. I’d like to hear from Mohummad Yaaseen. I love hearing his position on things. He’s very knowledgeable.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Khadijah Z

    April 12, 2011

    Shukran okhti just let Allah deal to it and keep my mouth shut to her and he will judge…. sad

    Thanks i guess i was looking for some thing to post and tag her so she can see how much she fell and if waiting to long may never get back sad

    @ Jenny still even with it being undetected it can still be passed and if a person who’s blood is clear can still pass it and dose not tell there partners then what cos nothing is hidden from Allah

  • Jenny

    April 12, 2011

    Thanks Allah for all the advancement in AIDS treatment! It is now possible with the medication cocktails to have undetectable blood results, actually testing negative. The death rate is so low and all the new advancements. Now if the advances can make their way to Africa, that will be a beautiful thing!

  • Ana

    April 11, 2011

    Mohummad Yaaseen, Wa Alaikum As Salaam!

    Thank you very much for expounding on polygamy, and how it relates to AIDS in some parts of Africa. It was very interesting because I remember watching a DVD movie based on a true story of a husband and wife with a daughter in Africa and the husband and wife had AIDS. I can’t remember the name of the movie. The husband worked someplace a distance from the home (he lived away a lot). He lost his job because of his symptoms of AIDS. He was unable to control his bowels, running to the bathroom constantly, etc. She found out while he was away working that she had AIDS. He came home. She confronted him about her condition. He accused her of giving it to him and he beat her. She remained with him and took the best care of him. The family was ostracized and moved to an area of seculusion. Her main concern was wanting to see her daughter graduate from high school, which she was able to do before she died. It was such a touching story. It never quite explained how he contracted AIDS. I suspected he caught it by having an affair, but I didn’t know whether the affair was with a males or female. Based on what you said, it most likely was from an affair with a female.

    Thank you again, for elaborating. I appreciated it much happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    April 11, 2011

    Okhti K, As Salaamu Alaikum! I want to jump in here while you’re waiting for Mohummad Yaseen to reply.

    If she claims to be Muslim and identifies herself as such, I think it has to be taken on face value that she is. But, if ones investigation reveals that she could be pretending to be Muslim for a benefit and is only disguising herself as a Muslim then that would be a different story.

    A person can be Muslim and believe that Allah is God, (the One and Only God) and the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is His Messenger, believe in all the Books and Allah’s Angels, and at the same time fornicate, commit adultery, lie, steal, drink alcohol, gamble and commit a whole host of sins, as Mohummad Yaseen stated previously, and still be considered a Muslim, if the person allege to be one. We are all going to sin and we’re going to continue to sin until Allah seizes our souls, but it doesn’t make us non-Muslim.

    Now, if a Muslim says he or she is no longer Muslim, then we take his or her word for it. I know a Muslim from a country with a large Muslim population that said he was no longer Muslim, but converted to christianity. Well, I took his word for it. He was wearing a cross and everything.

    There is NO INDICATION that Alex’s ex-wife is Muslim, but she says she is.There’s no benefit that I see in her saying she’s Muslim if she is not. There is no reason to challenge her on it. The last times I spoke with her she spoke of her boyfriends etc. She fornicates. She implied it, but it doesn’t mean she’s not Muslim. She advised Alex she was dating a married man. She likes dating married men so she has her freedom; she says.

    On the other hand, Carolinah never said she was Muslim, only Alex said she was after I asked him what was taking her so long to decide to be Muslim. He pressured her apparently, because soon after that he said she was. I’ve spoken with her on phone and by text and she doesn’t give the salaams, may not know what it is, gives no indication she is Muslim, and refers to Alex as my (Ana’s hubby). “Where’s your hubby.” and such, So I don’t know what’s going on between the two of them or what she is. She’s got the Christmas thing going on and all i dont know So, my investigation reveals – I don’t know what she is. Allah knows best.

    Now, knowing certain things about people that proclaim to be Muslim, but don’t act the part, it only gives one an indication how to deal with the person or not deal with him or her. Perhaps, the person that is slack in his or her worship (obedience to Allah) will come around and get closer to Allah.

    A Believer is one that repents. It means we have to have something to repent for. It doesn’t mean we recklessly go about sinning, knowing our sins will be forgiven. BELIEVERS DON’T DO THAT. Allah tests us Believers with good and evil.

    Okhti K, it sounds that the people that are claiming to be Muslim should be accepted as Muslim. Some of us accept faith and then reject it and accept faith again and then reject. If it pleases Allah, we will accept faith before it’s too late.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Khadijah Z

    April 11, 2011

    story in quick young woman with a child started learning Islam and was invited to live with her blood related reverted Muslim brother where she accepted Islam. The brother decided then eh wanted to marry and started back biting the sister to family and others, telling her then she needed to move out as his future wife had children. So hurt over the ordeal she left the state he was in and went to live with her kufir friends where she became involved with their brother who’s wife ran off and left him with there 2 small children she developed a thing to him and for several yrs now i think about 3yrs is living to him as a wife tho he is still married to his kufir wife he is supporting her as a wife but he is not a Muslim sad yet she still claims she is a Muslim and thinks cos she dont eat pork and got the man also to stop eating it its all ok sad id like to post what you say in FB so she can see and read it for her self and understand what she has done of her self sad

    Also another sister who’s a born Muslim her father has taken a 2nd wife and took the new wife who is the same age as his daughter 22yr to the home village of the 1st wife of which he has denied the 1st wife to go to for over 20yrs. he has been gone now for more then 3wks with his new bride and not a call or even money to his 1st and family what can i tell this girl who is now worried for her mom’s mental health other then what i have told her to seek her rights and be patient. The woman knows no English as i had offered them to come to this page for help sad

    I often am so grateful that my husband dose his best by all of us even it may not seem so.

    yes its been one of those weeks

  • Khadijah Z

    April 11, 2011

    Wa Alaykum Asalaam akhi Mohummud Yaaseen
    she didnt marry is living as a wife raising his kids and he is not divorced and is not a Muslim but she still trying to claim she is a Muslim sad

  • Mohummud Yaaseen

    April 11, 2011

    Ana Assalaamu allaykum

    There is also a lot of promiscuity in various parts of Africa. Part of the sex issue, I think, is related to the hot climate people live in. In hotter climates people might feel more inclined and temperaments are more sensual (I might be wrong, but it appears that way). Perhaps also because of polygamy and not only polygamy but concubinage also.

    African women who come from polygamous cultures also tend to be easier and a lot more patient with their men and so you find men sometimes leaving their wives for months and sometimes years to seek employment in another region and while else where has got other women sleeping partners but not wives. This is sometimes considered to be acceptable in certain cultures because he can’t afford to spend on more women but feels the need to have sex. Hence a system that was and in some regions still is practiced whereby men have what the anthropologists used to call their “principal wives” which has visitation rights and maintenance and then their common wives who were lesser in status but whose children belonged to the tribe and who were treated well and who were like servants under the supervision of the principal wives.

    AIDS is definitely a big problem in Africa.

  • Mohummud Yaaseen

    April 11, 2011

    AA Khadijah

    If a Muslim women marries a non muslim man committing herself to him deliberately violating Islam and not caring either way then she has become Murtad (left the fold of Islam) This is according to the majority of scholars and they say, no kalaam and no salaam with that person. Meaning, Muslims should cut themselves off from her completely, including her own father and mother.

    This other woman who left her Muslim husband and now is living in sin would have to openly renounce Islam and say she doesn’t either agree with the rules of Islam or doesn’t believe in a fundamental belief of the Islamic faith to be cast outside of the pale of Islam. Sin doesn’t take one out of the fold of Islam, only evidence of disbelief based on what they say and how they deliberately choose to behave and then deny that such behavior is non sinful and never mind what Allah says. In other words, someone says they don’t agree with Allah and the Prophet in what has come down and the like.

    It is important to remember that a person can drink wine, zina, steal and cheat and still not be called a kaafir (disbeliever) though their actions are kufr (actions contrary to belief). Only testimony of that person and denial of the necessity to believe in what has been revealed and to try ones best to put it into practice will cast someone out. Why this is important is because not everyone who sins, necessarily, does so out of disbelief but out of weakness. Rather don’t call Muslims as non Muslims, that is extremely dangerous. Unless they themselves profess that they aren’t Muslim.

  • Jenny

    April 11, 2011

    Asalaamu Alaikum Brother Yasseen,

    I think you are absolutely correct about the ethnic issue when it comes to secret wives. My husband’s family is no stranger to polygamy. The first one was his sister’s husband. He left Pakistan, as many of the men do, came to the U.S., and married an American woman and started having children. This went on and it was many years before my sister-in-law found out, about 8 years. Wow! The family about had a coniption!

    Then along comes little old me! Hubs was married to his first cousin in Pakistan, an arranged marriage he didn’t want. They never lived together. My husband left Pakistan when he was 14 and only went back for visits. He would be there for 2 months every few years. He hasn’t been back there in 7 years and it was over 10 years since he was last with the wife physically.

    I hate to say it, but it is so true, when we met, it was love at first sight! He chased me like a blood hound after a duck! We married immediately and have been very happy, Alhumdulilah!

    Initally, my husband did not tell the Pakistan people about me and I really didn’t care one way or another because none of these people were real in my life. It’s not like he runs off to see them. They are just names and places, sorry to sound cold, but that is the reality. Believe it or not, I preferred them to not know about me because I had visions of this irate family jumping on a plane!

    When I became pregnant with my twins, that’s when the game changed. The entire family knows about me and approves of us. My husband is the “favorite,” so he could do no wrong in their eyes. The other one knows of me, but like I said, there is no love loss between them and she is glad he has someone. All she wants is her house and being support, which she is both.

    My husband told me before we married that he always wanted to marry for love and not for duty. As he explains it, he did his duty for his family and I was what he always desired in life. We are very happy and he is the best husband in the world to me.

    My husband never desired to have a polygamous marriage, and in a sense we don’t, as he has nothing to do with the other one. If I really put my foot down, he would divorce her in a heartbeat, but I don’t want to cause anyone shame. I’m fine with things the way they are. I’ve come to accept her and when we do go to Pakistan (to see his mother whom she cares for), things will be friendly between us.

  • Khadijah Z

    April 10, 2011

    @ Akhi Mohummud Yaaseen a Qu? plz

    If a female reverts to Islam then fights to there family member who was not being a good Muslim to them, so leaving all behind and goes lives to a kufir man and not married to him still call them self a Muslim even they in no way practice and can i have the specs on it please if you have it shukran

  • Mohummud Yaaseen

    April 10, 2011

    Assalaamu allaykum Ladies

    I just wanted to add that a real problem amongst Middle Easterners and far easterners, it seems, is their utter refusal- at times- to allow a different ethnicity from marrying into their families. I had this problem, my cousin also had this problem and so many others. At times, it seems o.k in some eastern cultures to allow their men the right to marry any women provided their women only marry men of their ethnicity. I have personally experienced this with Indian, Arab and Persian cultures whereby, aside from the wealth issue, a man must be of of their ethnicity to marry their women or the reverse.

    This is probably what the sister was suffering from. It is so unfair because you can acquire the wealth, get the fancy degrees, be the best of Muslims but how do you make yourself an Indian, Iranian or Arab if you’re not one? It’s a loosing battle.

    About secret marriages. Islamic law requires, as was stated, that the marriage be made public. However, Islamic law only requires a minimum of two witnesses at the time of the actual Nikah. Hence, people get married under Islamic rites and the marriage would remain valid even though it is a secret one in terms of the other wife no knowing of its’ existence. In South Africa, the Imaam usually calls up the other wife and tells her that her husband is about to marry now. Not seeking her approval, but just to make sure she knows.

    It becomes problematic when the man dies, and suddenly a whole other family shows up from the wood work. Then there are inheritance issues, brothers and sisters having to know each other so they don’t end up getting married (it has happened before) etc..

    So, yes, marriage must be made public though technically people can get away with secret marriages under Shariah and the marriage would still be considered valid. But then the secret marriages takes all the beauty of polygamy away. It also results in other sins, like perpetually lying to everyone, even your own mother.

    Is it shirk? We must remember that shirk is divided into two categories. Shirk Akbar (The greater Shirk) and Shirk Asghar (the lesser Shirk) We cannot say that someone who has a secret marriage is, for example, a mushrik (polytheist) and has committed the biggest sin which is unforgivable.

    The greater shirk is to set up rivals in WORSHIP with Allah. For example, worshiping idols as intermediaries with God.

    The lesser shirk involves numerous things and is mentioned in a hadith that can be so hidden like a black ant crawling on a black rock at night. This can range from not trusting in Allah, to disbelieving in something he has decreed (even though openly professing to believe in it) and even deliberately disobeying him. For example, when the time of prayer comes, not leaving off what you are doing and then missing the prayer is a form of Shirk Asgar because you have placed something above what Allah has ordered. Yet it does not compromise your belief that Allah is indeed One. We should be able to distinguish between the two otherwise we can so easily make Muslims into Mushrikoon unwittingly and that is very dangerous.

  • Khadijah Z

    April 10, 2011

    @ Alya sorry i did not see till to late that your parents were not Muslims and im sorry, but his are so they will answer to Allah on that day.
    You no Allah saying the best among men are those who are best to there wives. winking

    May Allah always protect you sister from those who seek to hinder you, and continue to guide you in the best way, Ameen

  • Khadijah Z

    April 10, 2011

    sorry to be so late in this

    @ Alya it is a major sin in Islam to keep a marraige secret and if your parents and his are good Muslims then they should know this. As a 1st wife there was no reason to even delay the marriage announcement and you have all rights to make it open. Why in the name of Allah would your family allow such a thing and help in it and help also in denying you your rights to be treated fair in all things? It makes me wonder why? Why would yours and his family agree after 10yrs to have your marraige and then keep it a secret? This is Haram or are you living in a non polygamous country like the US or some thing?

    How could any parent esp a mother allow her daughter to be treated in such a manner, Im sorry but some thing is not right here and it stinks to high heaven.

    you need to put your FEET not foot down an all there necks and demand your rights from him, yours and his family as a Muslim as a human and as a woman.

    now im pissed sad

  • Alya

    April 10, 2011

    @Cindy, thank you for your advise, you are right and I will not allow my rights to be stepped all over much longer. Yes she is the second, I saw some of the guest gifts with dates and was around when family flew in.

    @Ana, thank you very much for you advice. In fact, thank you to everyone. i have taken on board all of the advice and have decided to hurry things up by loudly demanding my rights sooner than 6 months, whilst remaining patient in the process, and not being so ‘attentive’ as per Jenny’s suggestions. In fact I tried it today and it had an immediate impact. He is going to speak to the 2nd soon and will try to make it public. so far it’s promises but i know he will come through with it.

    My husband is actually very kind, and I believe that because we are very young, he thought polygamy would be easier. he has shown immense regret for what he has done to me and wants to make me happy.

    My parents are involved now as well and they are planning on spilling the beans if he doesn’t do it sooner. so i have their support but yes they are not Muslim. My mother wants to seek a sheikh to speak on my behalf should she decide to speak out. I would prefer my husband to be the one that makes it public and resolved everything but i can’t tell my parents not to do anything, they have already been patient enough with the whole situation.

    Ana thank you for reminding me of Allah. a month after I was married I fell into a deep depression for about 7 months and it completely affected my Iman. I’m a lot better able to cope with things now and staying steadfast to Islam is sincerely what has helped the most.

    We’ll be OK. I will let you know what happens a month from now and will come back should I feel the need to vent, it helped so much just getting this out and getting so many suggestions from others in similar situations. It seems everyone has a unique experience with polygamy but the pain and hurt remains the same, particularly when it’s not done properly. I pray that Allah will resolve my situation and divorce will be a last resort.

  • Ana

    April 9, 2011

    Ayla, As Salaamu Alaikum! I’m glad you found and joined us here at polygamy 411. I’m especially glad you’ve met and received such warm welcomes from many of our family members here on the blog. Thank you all for welcoming Ayla, and for giving her such good, sound advice happy

    Ayla, I agree with a lot of what’s been said here. I’m a firm believer that people don’t change much, as Cindy stated. They may stop doing certain things (drinking alcohol, smoking cigs, using control dangerous substances (drugs) etc., but their basic disposition remains the same. For instance, Alex is a planner and is very fugile. I get annoyed with him because I’m the opposite. I spend. I’m not a spendthrift and I’m not wasteful, but I believe in spending and obtaining what I want (What Allah gives me!) Allah says spend and he said that all the good things in this life is especially for the Believers (not excluding non-Believer) and exclusively for Believers in Paradise. So, as much as Alex thinks I spend and buy too much, he won’t see things as I do and vice versa.

    It took a very long time (10 years) for your husband to marry you and then to marry another 2 weeks later – OUCH!!! That hurts. And on top of it he’s dismissing you and depriving you of the right’s given you by Allah. It’s totally wrong. You deserve your nights the same as she. You deserve he spend his money on you the same as he spends on her. Unless you forgo any of those rights, you are entitled to have them fulfilled. I don’t understand what’s going on with you and him that he has six more months of something, but you can’t wait. What is that all about?

    I’m sadden that you don’t have a Muslim male figure in your life that can stand up for you and demand your husband do the right thing. He needs a good a$$ kicking. Men are the maintainers and protectors of women and that doesn’t only apply to husbands and wives. Is there any Muslim male figure that you can turn to for assistance in this matter? If not, you’re going to have to stand up for yourself or continue in the position that you are in. Whether you act or not, is all dependent on Allah and what He has determined for you. Keep asking Allah to show you the way that is best.

    I don’t think there is anything Islamically incorrect about you letting her family and everyone know that you are your husband’s wife. You don’t have to be a secret. Secret wives in Islam is not the way of Islam. It’s not how it’s done in Islam. You don’t have to obey your husband on this one – that you not tell others – because he is dead wrong and is doing everything contrary to Islam. You don’t have to obey someone that goes against what is right, someone who disobey Allah. You have a right to be treated justly and fairly and you’ve indicated it is not happening. Now, on the downside, it may work against you in that he may divorce you. But, don’t you think you deserve better, if he does? Of course it will hurt you deeply and you’ll go through a thing, but just believe that someone better is out there that is more deserving of you and you of him. If you don’t believe that, it won’t happen. Allah is to His servants what they perceive Him to be. Believe that Allah can and will give you better, serve, obey and worship Him and Him alone, and He will.

    This whole cultural thing has really hurt Islam terribly. Polygamy was made permissible so that all wives would be treated with respect and dignity and on a level of equality. As much as I hate to say it, as I don’t want Carolinah to be on the same level as me. I need a lot of help from Allah. I have a longs ways to go in getting my heart purified, but I won’t give up.

    Alya, you could continue to be patient. Patience is good. If you keep turning to Allah, offering your salats, making istikarah, reading Quran and keep your focus on Allah, obey and serve Him, He will show you the way. He’ll remove you from the marriage or will make things better in your marriage. As Jenny mentioned above, He will open the door for you to leave, or stay and be happy (whatever happy is???) Hang in there. As Cindy stated, we will all be OK!

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Jenny

    April 9, 2011

    @ Alya,

    As I was reading your posts, it hit me that you are in a similar situation to Ms. P (the wife in Pakistan). She’s the first wife, treated like the second. I just got a glimpse into her life.

    Hubs doesn’t go to Pakistan to see her. They were married for 17 years, which in all the years, he might have been with her for 6 months in total. This was before we met and married. He bought her a house and gives her money so she doesn’t have to work. Actually, let me correct that, he gives his mother money. In the Pakistani culture, the mother-in-law rules with an iron fist (she takes care of Hub’s mother). Their marriage was an arranged marriage and neither was happy with the other. He didn’t divorce her because where she lives, it would be considered shameful. So, that is our lot. He gives her no rights other than being financially taken care of, nor does she ask for any rights. They haven’t spoken in over 7 years. They are both content with the way things are.

    Being quite honest, I am very possessive of my husband. It would blow my mind if we ever spent a night apart where he wasn’t next to me. We’ve been planning a trip to Pakistan, but the stars have been aligned in my favor and that hasn’t happened yet. winking My twin pregnancy and our business keeps us working 20 hours a day, so no time. His mother is sick and he wants to see her one last time.

    His family found out about me not too long ago and everything is out in the open. His family loves me and even HER family loves me too!! I’m bringing her brother to the U.S. to work in my law firm (he’s an attorney in Pakistan). Her and I have no interaction at all, but she is happy that hubs is no longer alone. Actually, she has no interaction with anyone.

    You don’t have to answer this, but was children in the picture? Right now I’m pregnant with twins, and having children was important to both of us. I think that decision has cemented our life so much more together, if that is possible.

    My family loves Hubs, but it will be a cold day in hell before they find out he has a wife in Pakistan. My family thinks he divorced her, but she takes care of his mother. Nobody in my world knows the truth, except the Pakistani’s in my life. The Pakistani women treat me like dirt because I’m the “second.” It’s all good though! I get my revenge! hee hee I smile when they give me dirty looks when Hubs brings me flowers or I wear a new piece of jewelry. The nicest thing is the look on their face when I pull up (I always park outside their storefront) in my brand-spanking new Mercedes!

  • Cindy

    April 9, 2011

    There is absolutely no excuse Islamically for him to treat you in this way. You have no children and earn your own money so it would be much easier for you to leave him should that be your ultimate decision.Though I do believe it should be your last option.I do not know how old you are but you sound rather young to have to be dealing with this especially being that you are still basicaly a newlywed. What you must understand is this…People do not change, who they are now is usually who they will always be. Very rarely will someone especially a man all of a sudden decide to change something in their life that has been working perfectly “fine” to them for 10 years. I truly do not want to scare you or make you think that divorce is your only option because it is not but, if I were in your particular situation I would give him a set amount of time to tell his second (are you sure (she)is the second?) If he has not told her then I would tell her my-self. Of course be very repectfull to her and her family but explain to them that you are not recieving your rights as a wife. As muslims they are all aware that it is perfectally halal for him to have multiple wives and the fact that you have already accepted it for you and want for your sister what you want for yourself should prove to all of them especially your husband that you are sincere. That is a good thing. The longer you accept the loss of your Allah given rights the harder it will be for you to get them at all. Just read back through as many of the old posts and topics on this blog and you will see what I mean. Please remember also that what I said about speaking with your husband is only MY opinion but I believe it to be a sound suggestion. Both Zahrah and mohummud have quite a few interesting posts and tend to offer sound unbiased advice to all that need it. Inshallah you will be ok…..That goes for all of us. Inshallah we will all be ok.

  • Alya

    April 9, 2011

    Jenny,
    I have never in my life done anything of what you have said but it’s so obvious that I’m being stepped on because I’m so soft with him. I was planning on leaving but with all this advise I will toughen up and demand what’s mine. I guess I have nothing to lose since I was already getting ready to leave should bad come to worse. I like your ideas on how to handle the situation

  • Jenny

    April 9, 2011

    @ Alya,

    It isn’t often that Hubs pi$$e$ me off, but it has been known to happen. On those occassions, I like being “fair.” I give him back exactly what he gives me. He used to have this annoying habit of just walking out and doing his own thing. He quit doing that very second when it happened to him. I casually stolled out of the office with my purse and went to a movie — didn’t say squat to him! He was pulling his hair out of his head by the time I got home (I shut my cell off too). It didn’t even take an argument for him to mend his ways! winking

    As far as keeping your marriage a secret, I would be screaming it out from the rooftops! I guess if you want things to change, you are going to have to toughen up. Think about this: the second wife might be tough as nails, which is why you don’t get any nights or have a life. I know what I would do, but I don’t recommend it (I’m very opinionated and brassy), I would act like a single person, since you are living as a single person. Start going out, even with other women, so you have no time for him. That will get his attention in a QUICK hurry! surprise He won’t know what hit him. That will be good because if you’re a softy, you won’t have to say anything. Take some classes, get involved with something. If you have no time for him, you’ll see a quick change in him. Men hate being ignored!

  • Alya

    April 9, 2011

    @Lynn thank you for your comment. Somehow I don’t feel better from it but it’s the reality of the situation so thank you for your sincerity and that is probably how the second wife will view me. I’m the first wife but treated like the second wife you just described. I see my husband maybe once a week, his mum is pushing for everyday but it hasn’t happened. You know I was never married before, no children, no previous relationship as a nonmuslim apart from him, no children, I’m young, im earned a lot of money, educated, so I wasn’t in a situation that forced me to accept this. I accepted because I believed it was the only way we could finally be together after many years of being apart. The trust and loyalty was there and never questioned so I accepted after many months of fighting it. I wanted a public walima like all other sisters, and have my family there with me. It just didn’t happen and I regret accepting this for me because I deserve better. I have supported him through some very tough times and just feel I deserved better than this. I never was againgst him giving up on the second and had a lot of sympathy for her because I didn’t want her to lose my husband after she was promised to him. It would break my heart to lose him and at the time I didn’t want my sister’sbheart to be broken nor did I want her to have to wait endless years like I had to wait. So I accepted. I made a mistake. You are absolutely right, it’s difficult being a secret wife. Imagine yourself chained up in a deep dungeon underground with no family, no light, no life, cold and sick, that is how it feels but it’s deeper because you are dealing with matters of the heart. It is lonely and heartbreaking and oppressive. Allah has given us rights, but our own men deprive us of these rights. If the second wife and her family was a little more accepting of polygamy maybe things would be easier on my husband and he wouldn’t oppress me.

  • Alya

    April 9, 2011

    @Cindy. Thank you for your comments. I didn’t expect such encouraging responses. Two months after we married I pushes for my parents and his to know we are married. They are all keeping it a secret from the public and friends and relatives. I want to be stubborn about it but I’m a soft type of person and have never stood my ground. I’ve always been accepting of everything and supportive but it’s taking it’s toll on me now.

    @Jenny I’m not sure of his reaction, surprised I guess, he doesn’t believe I could ever leave him. Regarding the 10 years, we dated when i was an early teen and soon after I became Muslim. Despite the love I felt for him I broke everything off for Islam but after getting to know his family he confirmed his intentions to marry me. I agreed and we talked ever since however I had to wait until he finished college etc and somehow 3 years turned to 10.

    It’s a very long story as there have been many dramas along the way as well but mainly it was always a very strong bond and I believed he was waiting for the right time to marry ‘me

  • Lynn

    April 9, 2011

    Salam alya

    According to my 10 months experience it doesn’t get any better. Everyday we are battling with our emotions. My hubby’s second wife (my ex-foreign domestic worker) is a secret wife. He has his strong reasons for keeping it secret, and I have nothing to do with it. She is staying in another country and he visits her 3-4days every 17days. To him, nobody needs to know about the second marriage. His family is not accepting her as well – as they had seen her and also thought she had done black magic on her hubby. Black magic or not, Allah allows it to happen. I am his wife when he’s here and she plays wife when he’s there. Maybe she doesn’t mind – I don’t know.

    when asked, he would tell then he’s on “overseas assignment”. He said he hid it to protect me from more hurt. I don’t think there’s any happiness being a secret wife. The situation is worst, the marriage wasn’t done properly and registered accordingly and when they have a baby, the mother can still register the birth, but the birth cert will show the baby as “illegitimate child” as without a proper marriage licence my hubby’s name cannot be included. Both mother and child have no legal rights should anything happen to my hubby. It will be emotionally stressful on the child.

  • Jenny

    April 9, 2011

    Sister, one last thing…like Cindy said, make your voice heard!

  • Jenny

    April 9, 2011

    @ Alya, Asalaam Alaikum,

    I know you are in pain and I hope you feel better! *HUGS* Believe me, we are all in the same boat here, and this is the place to vent and let it out and see how others cope (or don’t cope).

    What your husband is doing is not Islamically correct. You mentioned that you are close to his family? One thing I’ve learned, the squeeky wheel gets the oil. What would his reaction be if you left him? If you don’t mind me asking, where is your husband from? Are you living abroad or the states?

    Maybe it’s time you stop being “secret.” I don’t want to say I was a “secret” wife, but in a way I was for a little while. Hubs family lives in Pakistan and we had a very big, lavish and expensive wedding (and a nikkah). It was very public. It wasn’t until recently the family in Pakistan found out about me. The other has no contact with my husband, he just supports her financially. Any contact is done through his mother. Right or wrong, that is just the way it is.

    Each husband is different, and what would drive the point home with one may not work for the next. With my husband (bless his lovely heart), he cannot stand if I am angry or upset with him. If I call him on something, he wakes up in the morning apologizing to me and fixes whatever bugged me. Believe me, I kissed a lot of frogs before I found my husband! I thank Allah for him at least a million times a day!

    Please don’t give up hope! Allah has presented you with a test and he will give you all the help you need to pass it. Just keep praying and having faith. He will open a door for you to leave or be happy.

    I don’t understand what you said about being promised to marry for 10 years. Can you explain?

  • Cindy

    April 9, 2011

    Alya…Asalam alaikum, I for one can say that after reading this blog for quite some time that it does get easier for most. Though it is a long, and hard road to travel you should realize that you are never alone as Allah is always with you and will ease your burden if you but ask. As to your rights unfortunately I think that unless you are stubborn and hard headed and fight openly for what you know is Islamically correct then as the marriage started so shall it end (in secret that is) I do not actually understand how it is a secret as you stated that you know his family well? But either way pray and make dua contantly and Allah will not forsake you…He will take you into his care as he has for each and everyone of us who use this blog to ease our earthly burdens. Inshallah you will be ok…Please continue to read and post as it truly does help those who need to “vent”…..Salam

  • Alya

    April 9, 2011

    sallam alaikum, I am new to comment but have been following your blog since I married in 2010. I was the first wife however I was and continue to be a secret wife. Apparently my husband’s family wanted him to marry an Arab sister but I’m not Arab. Anyhow I didn’t know that until months before we married yet we were promised to marry (or engaged, whatever) for 10 years. It has been the hardest 10 years of my life and I accepted the secret marriage because I just wanted it over and done with and I didn’t want to lose him. He married two weeks later and did the everything properly with the sister. I was taught the religion by my husband’s mum (I’ve been Muslim since 15 years) and so I was very good friends with the family. The past year has been worst than the 10 before. I am commenting because I have reached the end of the tunnel and no light in sight and I am preparing myself to walk away destroyed and miserable. None of my rights are being met, I get no night turns, little money, and I am lucky to see my husband twice in the week. I want to leave because he has not respected my rights or me as a human. I gave up so much. My family and his family now know but the second is yet to find out along with her family. There is still 6 months to go before I get my full rights but I can’t make it that long. I just found out she is pregnant and I am completely distraught. Agony and pain do not describe the feeling. I really need advice from sisters in my situation and living polygamy. Do things ever get better in this marriage situation? Did it for you. I have no hope left, so I guess that I’m wanting one last string to hold on to. What I would give to have been in your shoes Ana, you have all your rights mashaa’Allah. I don’t care that I share my husband anymore, I just want my basic rights… food, shelter, time.

  • Ana

    November 13, 2009

    Haji Rafiq,

    Please accept my apology. You used the right word “should”. I used the wrong word “must”, as there is no compulsion in Islam.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    November 13, 2009

    Haji Rafiq, you said, “According to islamic law and tradition I should say it is wrong.” I would just change one little word, the word should to must-simply because we should do things the opposite of the masses. The seeing and the blind are not alike.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Haji Rafiq

    November 13, 2009

    Secret wives seem to be more prevalent in the West. President Mitterrand had one. The Chairman of Bertelsman Publishing Corporation in Germany had one (the present Chair-lady). According to Islamic law and tradition I should say it is wrong. Equal treatment also means equal among the public view.

  • Ana

    November 6, 2009

    Jeanne T,

    I agree with you that telling the truth is usually the best policy. I understand there are certain circumstances where secrecy is allowed, for instance: in situations involving charity, justice, and conciliation between persons. Secrecy regarding a marriage is not one of those circumstances.

    I’m adamant in my belief that a “secret marriage” is simply, unequivocally an affair. There is no good in it. The husband comes up with some asinine excuses for not being honest with his first wife about the subsequent marriage. The first wife looses out all around. She’s made a fool of behind her back. If and when she does find out about her husband’s “secret marriage”, she still feels she has been a fool, and has to deal with the overwhelming hurt, pain, and humiliation that she will feel, resulting from the deceptive practice of her husband.

    The secret wife has blame in the matter as well. She never cared about the first wife and the devastation she’d cause to that family, otherwise she would not have become a willing participant in the secret marriage. She, herself, was seeking to satisfy her own selfish desires. Consequently, the “secret wife” gets caught up in her own feelings of inadequacy, humiliation, and degradation, as no good can come from something bad. It’s all a web of deception.

  • JeanneT

    November 6, 2009

    I think it far more likely that the wife would kill the husband, at least in this culture. More and more, I think the way to go is to tell the truth, always.
    And avoid people and activities where telling the truth is not the way things are done.
    If my husband was doing some of this stuff, I would want to know. I would want details. Last thing I would want would be to be so blind to the reality as to be able to lie to myself about how wonderful it/he is.

  • Ana

    November 5, 2009

    Perhaps I’m playing the devil’s advocate right now. But, what would happen if these secret wives start taking the position of the guy in the movie, “The Network” and say, “I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore?” Then she proclaims to the world that she is married and to whom. If the husband doesn’t like it, he divorces her and if his first wife doesn’t like it, she divorces him. Now, that’s taking a position…standing up and being counted.

    I know…It’s much easier said than done.

    Women have to be so careful though. There have been instances where mistresses have threatened to tell the husband’s wives about their sordid affairs and the boyfriends killed the mistresses. Although, in the secret wives case, the parties involved claim it to be “marriage.” But if it’s a “marriage” then why is it secret? Anyone can call anything whatever they want to call it.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    November 5, 2009

    Clueless,

    I wonder if you truly want advice. The way I see it you love him and don’t want to part. So, regardless of what anyone says your mind has already been made up… at least for now. Anything I or anyone tells you pretty much to you is just talk right now.

    What concerns me is it appears he simply is making excuses for continuing a relationship with you that is convenient for him as is. You said he’s concerned about losing his son; however, I’ve always been advised that in Islam the male gets custody of the children, especially a son.

    He knew his wife wasn’t going to accept polygamy when he engaged in it, so why did he do it…for selfish reasons, self gain, and self-interest, all for self. He’s concerned about his first wife and her feelings, which supersedes his concern for you.

    I like commenter Paul’s approach. He believes the man should have the strength to loose the other woman, if the first wife is not on board. He said he restrains himself till this day. To me that is admirable.

    I foresee your relationship being stained as long as you are a secret, as that’s not the position you want to hold. What woman wants to be a secret? That is where the question comes in about Shirk. He fears his first wife more than he fears a Higher Authority. Marriage is a beautiful institution and should be publicized for all to know and respect you. You as a wife have a right to bear children, if you’re capable of conceiving and want to.

    How about you and the way you feel? Does it really matter to him?

    I’m sorry if I have been way harsh, but you asked…

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • JeanneT

    November 4, 2009

    You can speak your truth to him, tell him what you desire for yourself. He does not have to agree or go along with what you want. But you have your choices (to be open) and he has his choices too.

  • Judith

    November 4, 2009

    Clueless,
    I understand. We all have to make our own decisions in these matters. It’s just that you asked, so I responded. Clueless, I suggest you change your handle. The words we use to describe ourselves have an affect. Use a handle that speaks to the positive side of what you want.

  • Clueless

    October 28, 2009

    Dear Judith/Jeane, thank you for your replies.

    He is not ashmed but as he has a son from his first wife he is scared that he might have to loose him as his first wife wont accept his 2nd marriage.

    Is getting out a solution? Actually, our relatiosnhip is too strong emotionally, i feel it will do a lot of damage to both of us if we part.

    Clueless

  • JeanneT

    October 27, 2009

    Dear Clueless,
    Are you actually, legally married?
    I don’t see any problem is making it public if you want to. He should not be ashamed of what he has done.

  • Judith

    October 27, 2009

    “Is there anyone who can suggest me on how to handle this situation?”

    Yes. Get out of it.

  • Clueless

    October 27, 2009

    I am glad to find this topic, I was googling on my own situation. I am a Secret Wife and yes it is very very painful.

    I am waiting for him to make it public but seems like he has too many other things to settle down before he publicizes our marriage (been more than 3 years now). I am his 2nd wife and his 1st wife would no approve of me. I can not even have children because of the same reason as we will have to go announce it that We are married.

    He does care a lot for me and I care for him. I honestly dont understand what should be done in this situation. Is there anyone who can suggest me on how to handle this situation?

  • Ana

    September 25, 2009

    JeanneT, hello and welcome! We’re glad you have joined us, and are finding the blog helpful.

    From much that I’ve been reading and learning, the first wife’s consent for her husband to practice polygamy is usually encouraged now and is mandatory in many countries. Not to seek a first wife’s consent seems somewhat to me to be enslaving to a woman, condemning her to a life of servitude. How could a husband impose such a lifestyle, polygamy on another person without her consent and option to leave the marriage or work through it?

    There are many people who so readily tell a person just to leave a situation, especially polygamy, but most of us in a polygamous marriages know the answer is not that simple.

    Every day is different in a polygamous marriages. Some are much more painful than others and then some days are easy.

    I’m only dealing with one other woman sharing my husband at the moment. I could only imagine how much more difficult and painful it would be to add yet one or two more.

    I pray that you gain a better sense of peace and contentment in your life. Know that we all are here for you at all times. happy

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • JeanneT

    September 25, 2009

    I wonder, is it even legal to take a 2nd wife without first informing and gaining the consent of the 1st wife? I find myself in a painful, complicated “marriage” situation of 9 years with 2 other women, one before me and another after. I am an American, and this is of course highly illegal here. Although he calls me his wife, I am really his mistress.
    This website is a Godsend. Reading these pages has helped me tremendously. But reading the experiences of others fully brings back the pain.

  • Ana

    September 16, 2009

    Ibn AlHyderabadee, welcome. I’m glad you have joined us.

    You made a valid point…A contract is a contract. Perhaps persons can contract for good or evil :[

    Another valid point you made is regarding the sunnah- the way of the Prophet Muhammad (Peace and Blessings Upon Him). Persons who contract secret marriages obviously aren’t very much concerned with following the sunnah.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in. happy

  • ibn alHyderabadee

    September 16, 2009

    A secret marriage is valid from what I understand, as in the marriage contract is still considered a valid contract. As long as the wali is there, two witnesses and the two parties are consenting.

    But not publicizing the marriage doesnt make the contract invalid. It is an obligation (sunnah according to some scholars) but without it the contract is still valid.

    Allahu’Alam

    PS: I am not supporting secret marriages.

  • Ana

    September 15, 2009

    Juman, I appreciate you speaking to us from experience as a “Parent selected second wife”. I could understand you not be accepting of it. I don’t know how any woman could be. I could certainly understand women getting caught up in it and not liking it at the same time. I’m sure most women eventually get out of it some way or another. It’s somewhat inhumane and cruel for women that are a part of it-the secret…the way I see it.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    September 15, 2009

    Judith,

    An apology was not necessary at all. You didn’t do anything wrong. I just didn’t quite understand the correlation between transgender and secret wives. Now I understand better, as you’ve explained it to me. Thank you! The interfaith and interracial marriage analogy brought it home for me. I now comprehend.

    Only now, I see the problem of secret wives as a more complicated issue. Perhaps the persons who engage in secret wives relationship are cowardly for not standing up to people like their parents and/or their first or other wives that want to be Lords. Speaking referencing Islam, polygamy is permissible according to a Higher Authority. So how could we let man (human), parents and wives, come along with their man-made restrictions and rules and prevent marriage to the degree of causing couples to sneak?

  • juman

    September 15, 2009

    i clarify i should have said – parents selected 2nd wife- not knowing about his secret first wife.

  • juman

    September 15, 2009

    Don’t know about shirk, but if he doesn’t have the courage/decency to marry in public , then he probably shouldn’t be having one wif – if that .

    sorry my ex-life as a unknown 2nd wife ( ex had secretly married someone else first) does not make me accepting of these things shirk or not.

  • Judith

    September 14, 2009

    Ana,
    Now it is my turn to apologize. I probably should not have included that statement on your blog, and I’m truly sorry for having said it. But equally truly, I was not talking about the people who do it, or their stories or reasons, it is my own stunned reaction to the phenomenon of genital mutilation, whether by choice or by cultural force.

    There didn’t seem to be any other way to describe the violation that I feel keeping one’s marriage a secret amounts to. In some cultures and time periods, an interracial, or interfaith marriage could result in death. Are those people today who choose to keep their marriages a secret, ascribing the same gravity to their situations as we know people who went before us actually faced? I am not belittling the burden of disrupting the feelings of family. But none of us is serving the greater good when we disguise as concern for others what is actually cowardice.

    And we should also bear this in mind; in every place where a woman has agreed to be a secret wife, there is a man who has agreed to be a secret husband.

  • Ana

    September 14, 2009

    Hi everybody (L)

    U235sentinel, Judith, CM, and Renee, I’m with all of you. Just to touch on some of what was said thus far:

    U235sentinel, I agree, “a secret wife serves nobody.” Family is about sharing.

    Judith, I’m just as “puzzled” as you are about the existence of secret wives. You have to explain that “transgendered” part to me though. You went way over my head. I’ve heard of it before, but never new what it was. Please excuse my ignorance. I have an idea what it is-along the lines of cross dressing or something, but that’s transsexual… surprise

    CM, I can’t comprehend how any man would think it’s OK. You said it reeks too much like an affair. I think it has affair written all over it. It has affair stamped on it.

    Renee, the question was raised in a previous post about the fornication/adultery aspect of quasi polygamous marriages performed solely to justify sexual relationships. My husband Alex and Carolinah’s marriage has been questionable as to whether it’s borderline fornication and adultery.

    I’m with our good friend Mai who says it all come back on the man. I feel very sad ;-( for the women in these secret marriages and, as CM said her heart goes out to them, my heart goes out to them, as well. I think these women have been bamboozled, conned, deceived, and totally taken advantage of. I think the men have created an innovation-created a subgroup to polygamy and have made their own rules. Men are supposed to be maintainers and protectors of women. It doesn’t seem as though that is what men who engage in secret marriages are doing.

    I appreciate all the feedback and would love to know more of what people know or think about secret marriages, secret wives.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Ana

    September 14, 2009

    Balqis,I see no beating around the bush for you. You’re direct and to the point…You said if the marriage is not made public, it’s not valid. I hear that! All the rest doesn’t matter.

    I see it your first time joining us. Welcome Balqis!!! We’re happy to have you here.

    This is an open house. No need to knock. Just come on in.

  • Renee Martin

    September 14, 2009

    As Salaam Alaikum

    Ramadan Kareeem

    In some cases the secret wife is not a wife but a lover and some are still married but seperated from their husbands. This is pure fornication and adultery and needs to stop.

  • u235sentinel

    September 13, 2009

    Judith, I’m glad I could help a little. I don’t pretend to be an expert but I believe I understand somethings about how it works from the Mormon perspective. Though I wouldn’t suggest to be an authority by any means.

    I wonder if polygamy was in the church for a time because it was needed to restore the Gospel in it’s fullness. At least that’s what Joseph Smith taught. That this is the restoration of all things. So it has to be part of our doctrine. But it’s not needed now or required at this time especially since it’s illegal.

    Considering the political climate with marriage I would have thought this would be an ideal time to lobby our politicians to decriminalize the practice. There is NO reason for it to be illegal. And perhaps legalizing it would reduce the abuses I’ve been reading about in the news. It may free those afraid of stepping forward to come out and state they don’t want it in their lives. Or perhaps acknowledge this is what they want in life. Free Will is the one thing I believe God does not interfere with. But he will tolerate our sin’s only so far.

    I’ve thought and meditated a great deal about the letter the Church had read to me and my wife. For now I’m satisfied and will not push to have the practice legalized. Though I must admit I don’t understand why.

    On the other hand I’ve had revelations in the past. Should I have another suggesting I should push to legalize polygamy, you can bet I will be there doing all I can to have our politicians reconsider our laws. Laws can be changed. Consider Rosa Parks. A lady of great character whom I highly respect and admire.

    Anyway, for now I’m learning and watching.

    Oh and feel free to respond to anything including my awakening. I’ve had a few in my life. My first was when I was 19 and looking at several religions. I was Roman Catholic and felt like I was climbing stairs however came upon a point I couldn’t go any further because of a wall of brick blocking my progress.

    I’ve had several other instances where I felt the same way. Including with marriage and polygamy.

    Anyway. I’m watching and learning happy

  • CM

    September 13, 2009

    I don’t know about the religious aspect of secret wives – but I do know that keeping secrets in a marriage is not a good thing at all. I don’t comprehend why any man would think it was OK and a good thing and I don’t think I ever will comprehend it. I just can’t think of anything good that would come from having secret wives. To me it just reeks too much like an affair! Sorry to be so negative but it is how I feel and my heart goes out to those women caught in this kind of scenario.

  • Judith

    September 12, 2009

    I too have been puzzled by the apparent existence of secret wives. Marriage is not just about the personal relationship, it is about family and how you relate to the world. Having read the personal stories on this blog, I understand how it can come to pass. But I still can’t quite grasp the idea of keeping my married status a secret (whether as the wife or as the husband), and still feeling honorable. To me, it is like being surgically transgendered. I understand that people do it, and I’ve read their stories, but I can’t really grasp it.

    U235, thank you very much for having taken the time to answer my question about polygamy in fundamentalism. I don’t expect that matters of revelation can be resolved logically, but I do like to think about things, and I appreciated you taking the time to help. I learned a lot from your answer, and I realized that I have a completely “Protestant” understanding of eternity, and actually know nothing about the Mormon concept of the same. For example, I had never heard of the millenium interval to come until you described it. I would like to respond to the awakening that you have described experiencing in life, and perhaps there will come a moment where it seems appropriate.
    Best, js

  • u235sentinel

    September 12, 2009

    I know I’ve mentioned this before but secret wives a man should have none. A family should be just that. A family. Together. Sharing all. Loving each other and accepting of each other. A secret wife and family serves nobody. And if revealed could cause the family to function poorly.

    The husband should think about what he’s doing and does it serve God or himself by hiding his family from each other.

    Personally I think it’s destructive.

    My choice would be to have everything out in the open. Yes there are some things that shouldn’t be shared. I know happy

    But family is family. And should be together sharing everything in love.

  • Balqis

    September 12, 2009

    A marriage to be valid must be made public