July 2017 Discussions

July 2016 DiscussionsWelcome to our July 2017 discussions. Just jump right in and share your experiences or thoughts about polygamy in Islam. What’s on your mind?

July 2017 discussions

July 2017 discussions

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84 Comments

  • Karima

    July 23, 2017

    Salam

    Thank You Ana and All sisters for taking the time n advice me. It all makes sense naturally. I needed the reminder and i feel better Alhamdulellah . Ill try to improve my Health too. Inshallah

    Jazak Allah kheir

  • Flower

    July 22, 2017

    Ana

    It really worked for me. I had serious lethargy, headaches and aches and pains. Is put it down to running after the children all day but I was low in iron, vitamin d, magnesium and potassium. I think many Muslims women are low in vitamin d since we cover nearly all of our skin. We definitely need to top ourselves up with foods and supplements. If started eating pumpkin and sunflower seeds which I think are having a positive effect. Of course we must feed our souls too, with remembrance of Allah and acts of obedience.

  • anabellah

    July 22, 2017

    Flower,

    Your advice is far from bizarre. I’m big into health with regard to vitamins, herbs and holistic medicine. I’m skeptical when it comes to doctors and tend not to take their word for anything. I research natural remedies online. In fact, I’ve ditched my allergist and dermatologist. Allah has given us much to heal from natural ingredients that we could cook with, as well. I’m not telling anyone not to go to doctors, or not to use prescription drugs or anything of the like. Each person must do what is best for him or her.

    Karima,

    It may be something you’d want to look into. Maybe you’re iron deficient or not getting enough sun/vitamin D. Going out in the fresh air and enjoying the elements is a necessity for feeling good. Life is beautiful.

    Our thoughts tend to shape us and our bodies need to be active like a well oil machine. Keep it moving….. 🙂

  • Flower

    July 22, 2017

    Karima

    The ladies have given some great advise that would help immensely. I think you are generally sad, not in particular one thing, but many things and some maybe you can’t put your finger on. I hope this isn’t too ridiculous to you and others but lack of vitamins and minerals can seriously affect our mood. Especially magnesium and potassium. It can’t hurt to try, so id recommend getting a multi vitamin and a multi mineral tablet/capsule, and maybe some magnesium flakes to bath in (the best way to absorb magnesium is through the skin). I can vouch that it does wonders when we give our bodies what they need. You can find load of info on online about the symptoms of mineral and vitamin deficiency, a big one is depression.

    Sorry if this advise is to bizarre.

  • Rosa

    July 22, 2017

    Karima
    I think at this point you have to wake up and decide you can’t go day to day feeling the way you’ve been feeling anymore. Read Gail’s experience of being in a dark hole and how she managed to snap back. You have to let go and let God. Talk to Allah make sincere Dua Allah always answers and gives us solutions to our problems. Allah is our only a Friend. Our comforter and the One who Consoles. InshaAllah you will get to a good peaceful place soon. I know the feeling of not being able to say things to my husband sometimes. I’ll have my pitch all played out in my head a swear I’m making sense lol but when I go to proceed my mind goes blink or I cry lol. Then later Allah shows me signs of how my words could have done more harm than good so I think those emotions are oftentimes our saviours in disguise

  • anabellah

    July 22, 2017

    Karima,

    This is the bottom line: If you don’t accept that your husband has another wife, (your marriage is polygamous) AND you stay married to him, you will be unhappy. Period, end of story. It can be no other way.

    I’m sure you have gone over and over again with your husband about how you feel, whether you texted him, screamed at him about it or however you did it. It’s like you’re beating a dead horse, if you keep coming at him with it. He is not responsible for what you are going through internally.

    Your husband is married to someone else besides you (Allah knows best whether it’s your husband’s wife or his girl friend or what she is to him. Leave it to Allah to deal with what she and he are to each other).

    If you write to your husband to tell him that you don’t like the situation and he responds negatively to you, what did you expect? He has made it clear to you that he wants her in his life and wants you and your children in his life, as well. You have options. You can intend to leave or you could intend to stay.

    If you intend to stay, and you want to be happy in the marriage, you must make your life about Allah. It’s not about turning to Allah to have a better marriage either. It’s about worshiping and serving Allah because it’s what He tells us to do. We’re to do it all the time, not just to get something that we want. It’s a lifetime commitment. It’s what He created us to do. If you don’t do that, your life on this planet will be unpleasant. In fact, you will have a severe penalty in this life and in the Hereafter.

  • anabellah

    July 22, 2017

    Karima,

    I’d say if you are very unhappy with your husband, you should make your intention to leave the marriage. You need to make duah to Allah for Him to guide you about it. He hears the call of a spouse when she or he calls on Him.

    If you intend to stay with your husband then you’re going to need to own how you feel. Figure out why you feel as you do and do what needs to be done to get to a better place. Only Allah can change what you’re feeling inside. So, it’s going to take you turning to Him.

    You said you’re thinking and overthinking things. Well, it can’t be about Allah. If you were thinking about Allah, you wouldn’t be unhappy. It would be the opposite.

    How do you have sooooo much time to think of all the things that you think about that is bringing you down? The thoughts that you’ve been entertaining are putting you in a bad state of mind. No one can make you stop thinking those thoughts. You’ve got to work on it. You’ve got to ask Allah to help you.

    What does Allah say about our thoughts? He says remembrance of Him is the greatest thing in life without doubt. It’s the greatest thing; so why aren’t you thinking of and remembering Him?

    Instead, you’re thinking of you, your husband and his other wife. You’re thinking about your situation. Of course, it will make you feel down and out, depressed and sad. You’re not doing what Allah tells you to.

    Allah says that if we don’t remember Him, He gives us an evil intimate companion. The evil companion is Satan and his whispers. It’s people who don’t serve him with whom you come in contact with, as well.

  • anabellah

    July 22, 2017

    Karima, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    Wow, I can’t believe it’s been a year already since you and the kids last went to visit your family for a month. It’s incredible how fast the time passes.

    I’m sorry to hear you’re still having a difficult time and are so unhappy. Please don’t feel embarrassed for talking with us about it.

    Being that you’ve had time to think and you said you may be overthinking things. What have you thought? You said you are sad and depressed and you’ve text your husband about your thoughts and feelings. What exactly is getting you down?

  • Karima

    July 22, 2017

    Assalamu aleykum

    I have been thinking to write for weeks now and then i was postponing it….i am
    Feeling Very sad and depressed. It is funny cause i am visiting my family With the kids for one month , just like last year Ana!

    I was /am embarrassed to come and give u all a headache but I really need some support and encouragement.

    I have my personal issues – the emotional baggage- I carry from my childhood, then the emotional baggage 9 years now with H ( perhaps some of u remember – I’m not sure if he has a secret wife or a girlfriend – he’s away once a week for work he says) and our bad communication ….

    I had the time now to find my posts I wrote here one year ago in the summer and early autumn. Alahmdulellah due to my part time work- project I got busy and had no time to think non stop about my problems…. overall this year was better than the previous one Alhamdulellah . now on
    Holidays unfortunately I have the time- to think/. To overthink perhaps.

    I hate myself I don’t know how to communicate with Husband:(. I am feeling sad for that

    I can never say face to face what is bothering me I cannot share thoughts n feelings- if I take the courage to do so I cannot do it without crying . N I feel not understood or misunderstood. But then again I could be the one with the wrong attitude:(

    I can only text him – I’m good in that- but his response is always why I am attacking him? Why I am destroying his mood? Why I am with him since he is such a shitty husband ?

    I cannot be myself with him- but then again- I cannot be my real self with anybody. Who’s wants to hear a negative person? I cannot solve my problems. I hate myself 🙁

    Alhamdulellah kids are well and husband provides. He is a good dad- better than mine. He s kids just calm polite. Where we live we are alone with no family around its a foreign country .

    On the surface it seems we have it all figured out. Especially since I started this teaching project of mine and I became active in the social media the image I give is im one happy person. At my classes too, no one would think I am not happy and fun to be around with

    Sigh….I hate this world. Really. If it wouldn’t be for the kids I would make Dua to leave this planet as soon as possible.

    Everything seeems so shallow and meaningless 🙁

    jazak Allah kheir

  • Flower

    July 18, 2017

    Ana

    I never expected the response I got from you. I honestly thought my original comment to spark a discussion on tawwakul, And how we should rely on Allah to dispose of our affairs and be ok with that, wether we like them or not. About how Allah is the best of all helpers. Never for one minute did I think you would take a single sentence and turn it into a entire post to basically say it’s all a “crock of shit” or to call others to berate me. Iv been nothing but kind and considerate on this blog and have never singled out any particular group. More so wives (because I am one) and especially 2nds, since iv been one. I’m actually hurt that you did that. I explained and gave more detail several times, but each time only spurred you on to further put me down, no less women who have birthed children and whose bodies reflect that. I agree, the your post and the comments that followed helped in 0, but I didn’t begin that discussion.

    I hope we can all move on from this and continue to encourage each other to be better Muslims.

  • Karima

    July 11, 2017

    Salam thanks Ana for the support you offer for us with this blog Mashallah

  • anabellah

    July 11, 2017

    As Salaamu Alaikum and Hello All our Cyberspace Buddies https://polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_bye.gif

    I’ve written another post that’s about a topic we’ve discussed much over the years. There are over 16,000 comments on the blog, so some may be hard press to find the comments about the topic. Just want to let you know why I’m going over it again. https://polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_wink.gif

    It is A Wife Who Has A Diseased Heart

  • anabellah

    July 10, 2017

    Saira, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    You said that you are going through hard times now and again. Is it something to be concerned about or is it just life’s ups and downs? We must remember that this is not Jannah, so to think that everything should be rosy and heavenly here is not being realistic. We’re all dealing with people who are different than we are. We can’t expect others to think exactly as we do, nor expect them to do what we want them to. Allah created us the way He wanted to.

    I’m just writing this in general. I don’t know if any of it relates to you and your situation. Maybe you’ll dealing with something above and beyond what I spoke of. What I wrote is just something for us all to remember. https://polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_mail.gif

    I pray that Allah gives us all the patience as you mentioned. Patience, perseverance and prayer are keys. It’s nice to hear from you, Saira, as always.

  • Saira

    July 10, 2017

    Aslamu Alaykum
    Sisters all of you May Allah give patient to all of you including me
    Seems like so many sisters going tru hard time
    Allah does. Not Allow men to marry multipacl and don’t pay attention to all
    I am going hard time now and again but Alhamduliah I am trying not to let any one comment break my heart
    keep me and my family in prayers too ameen

  • Moipone

    July 6, 2017

    @Gail I dont see a future with him anymore in anyway , all I feel is that I want this chapter of my life to be closed and finished with tired of the hanging for light at the end of the tunnel which is no where on side. Thank you for sharing your story and you are right my daughter picks up on things and asks if I am okay and ask if I still love her papa.

    @Spirited wow what an A -hole your first husband was and glad you have a wonderful husband now. He had no intentions of having family with you just like my husband who told me to go abort my daughter when I was pregnant with her. I refused I couldn’t do it so somehow thinking back then it makes me think that he didnt want to build a life and have a family with me because he knew he was going to marry a woman his parents choose.

    Thank you for sharing sisters

  • Spirited

    July 6, 2017

    Salaam guys, I hope your weekend was great and those of us who did, you enjoyed the Independence Day festivities. The weather actually became nice that day and it was enjoyable towards the evening to sit out.

    @Heartbroken, if you still check back here, don’t worry too much about divorce. It’s actually freeing and can even feel like a burden has lifted from your shoulders! In the beginning, you’ll be sad and maybe you’ll miss stuff your ex-husband used to do, but the stress he was causing you will be gone and you’ll feel so much better in time. You may have different kinds of stress as you’d be a single-mother, but maybe your self-confidence would increase. As always, keep up with prayers, reading Quran, and talking to Allah. Thank Him for his blessings, and ask Him for his continued support towards what comes next for you. I’m not sure how things would be with a child in the mix, but Insha’Allah, yours will be able to stay with you and no major issues arise.

    @Moipone, I recently divorced, however I didn’t have children with him so there wasn’t that issue in my case. Like what your husband is saying, mine kept putting off having kids with me as well, making one excuse after another. “Oh let me finish test” “after I get finished with this” “we will, after I finish this next part” (of his education). Mine also was selfish and never compromised on his end. I felt like I was the only one putting any effort into a one-sided marriage. In the end, he moved to the state his mistress/baby-mama/”wife” was in without even letting me know he was moving on a permanent basis and he tried the tired old BS of “wanting to stay married” except he won’t ever actually be around. He tried not to give me a divorce and keep me hanging on but that wasn’t going to fly after all those years of me trying to make it work and him not reciprocating (one-sided marriage as I said). Finally got him to give a complete and full divorce and I have to say, I wasn’t even sad. I was elated and looking forward to a brighter future with Allah’s help. I was able to gain much of my self-confidence back, and I’m almost done with a degree in a different field. I was so thankful to Allah to let me be able to get back to living and am even more grateful that I’ve got a wonderful husband now who is better and amazing in every way, mash’Allah.

    I’m really unsure how it would be with a child in the mix, my apologies for not being able to give any input in that. https://polygamy411.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-monalisa/icons/wpml_smile.gif Of course, please pray on it and ask Allah for guidance. As Ana and everyone often says, we can make intentions and forge ahead but Allah makes the final decision!

    @Ummof4, Gail, Ana and everyone. Thanks for thinking of me! I always appreciate you ladies so much and do Dua for you all. I’ll be sure to be around as long as Ana lets us all keep chatting!

  • Gail

    July 6, 2017

    Moipone,
    If u are unsure if u really want a divorce then do a 6 month separation to see if a divorce is really what u want.

  • Gail

    July 6, 2017

    Moipone,

    I divorced my first husband when I was 31 the same age as u are now and ironically my son was the same age as your daughter is now 8 at the time of my divorce so I can totally relate to where u are coming from.
    Since u only have the one child and I assume u will retain custody of her then u will be fine in the long run.I am not an advocate for divorce and I did make the choice to stay with my second husband because of my children but I had 4 children to consider in my second marriage and not one.Not to mention I already been down the divorce road once and had no intentions to go down it a second time because Divorce is like a death and I couldn’t bring myself to drag all 4 kids and myself through it again.I also felt like ok one divorce is acceptable but not two so I decided to stay and fight for my marriage and G.D knows it has been an uphill battle BUT I am happy I stayed and didn’t give up because I do love my second husband.
    The bottom line for me in my first marriage was also the same as yours..It came down one day to my first husband telling me he wanted more children and he asked me if I wanted more and I remember telling him yes I want more children but not with you.When I admitted to myself and my first husband that I couldn’t any longer see a future with him I knew my fate had been sealed to walk a different path.My first husband didn’t want the divorce but I was so miserable in my life and I felt like I was just living until I died basically in that marriage.
    I will say I think the children should always be put first but that doesn’t mean u have to stay married for your daughter to have a relationship with her dad.If your miserable in your marriage your daughter is picking up on that and if u think u can be happier to move on and divorce your daughter will also pick up on that as well.
    There is nothing wrong with moving on if u feel the marriage has outlived it’s usefulness in your life.

  • Moipone

    July 6, 2017

    Good day Sisters

    I need advise from the sisters who have gone through a divorce no like I have questions. Did you have children when the divorce happened and were they affected?

    I am asking this as you all know was thinking of a divorce last year when I found out about my so called husband’s 2nd wife. I was angry then so I am different now , I am no longer angry at him.

    Out of 7 days we fight for 3 days over the basics of how I spend my money, how to raise our daughter, who I should not speak too and why I need to send money to my mother.

    Another thing I have fallen out of love with him , When I say I love you there is no emotion behind it , its just words now. My daughter is 8 years old and I fear she will be affected by this because she is very close to her father. I have tried to work through it since last year March and I could wait until my daughter is 18 years.

    But that is 10 years of unhappiness and on top of that when we argue hr has said so hurtful things to me because I wanted to have another baby for my daughter to have a sibling but his words were”I wont have a baby with someone like you” and “who would suffer for that baby” this is after I refused my daughter to go to Bangladesh with him.

    When I asked hime again about having a baby he said will see in the next 3 years well I am 31 years old and I am not getting younger and in 3 years it could be more difficult to fall pregnant. A voice inside my head tells me he is just saying that not to hurt me , he does not want to have another baby with me.

    Am I being selfish for wanting to leave him after the hurtful words he is said and because I am just unhappy with with I just tolerate him for our daughter’s sake.

    I am not looking to have another husband and I want to happy and confident and have my self esteem back. I have compromised a lot for this man known since I was 21 but he has never compromised for . I always have to give and give and give and he is not affected by his actions.

    Please sisters I need advise because I cannot talk to my mother because she hates him and never liked him from the begining.

    Thank you

  • anabellah

    July 6, 2017

    Tunis’ husband is full of it (sh!t). Out of one side of his mouth he tells her that she doesn’t need a legal marriage because an Islamic one is good enough and she should trust him. In another breathe he’s saying an Islamic marriage isn’t good enough for the co and she needs a legal one. He wants to give to the co all that’s legal, but deprive Tunis of it. Sounds hypocritical to me.

  • Rosa

    July 6, 2017

    I was going to say the same thing Tunis you make a mountain of excuses for your husband and you beat yourself up a lot. You have got to sizzle down. We have all gone through those jealous stages Tunis. The onset of polygamy is…well I like to think of it as purifying the heart and soul. At the beginning we are all diamonds in the rough.
    Get your ducks in a row sis bc your co sure seems to be doing just that. You don’t want to be left out in the cold

  • Moipone

    July 6, 2017

    Hi Ladies All I can say to sister Tunis get yourself legal advise and if agreement is drawn up it must be done so in the presence of lawayers.

    Promises can easily be broken believe you cannot confirm a person, people change and often say what we want to hear without saying what they really mean.

    Be wise about this sister and wish all the best.

    Sister Heartbroken does dispair this too shall pass an end of a marriage or relationship is like death you need to grief and it has all the stages of grieving too. You will be fine at the end of the day believe me.

  • Lost Soul

    July 5, 2017

    Tunis
    U said when the time comes and IF u consent for a divorce then you will ask for whatever documents..
    Oh Honey! There is no consent of yours needed! If there is no option he WILL divorce you, with OR without your consent.

    And you are totally repeating his words and making excuses for his behavior.

    Anyway, I have no more to say on the topic as you seem to have made up your mind, and don’t want to seem to want to really hear the advice given here. That is of course, your prerogative.

    Best of luck Tunis.

    BTW..him not divorcing you is not a great thing on his part or a show love on his part.

    Look at Heartbroken’s husband. Without giving her a divorce he has still managed to make her life miserable. D’ya think he still loves Heartbroken just cause he hasn’t divorced her?

    It could just mean he doesn’t want to seem like the bad guy for divorcing you. Who knows?

    Taking away from one wife to give the other is WRONG.. It’s NOT sharing.

    Oh Heartbroken,
    I feel for you. I wish things could have gotten better for you.

    I wish you the best in life. Its hard to walk away from someone you still love and you have children with him as well which makes it even more tough to do so. Sigh.

    I know the feeling. It’s terrible. But in your case you seem to have reached the end of your rope.

    I pray that Allah gives you strength. Hugs hugs hugs..

  • Tunis

    July 5, 2017

    Ana, no I said this..if “I” want a divorce to secure all that you say I can get..meaning I can do it. he has said the other part. I should try to be more clear in my texting.

  • anabellah

    July 5, 2017

    Tunis,

    You stated, he said: “if I want a divorce to secure all that you say I can get..he has said..if Im not happy with what he can give to me..of affection. or what I expect as love.??.then Im free to go find someone else and he will release me..sell the house and give me money. But then it will be over he said..between me and him.”

    To me, it sounds like “bullying”, as Gail stated. He’s the one who has said, according to you, that he wants to divorce you “Legally” AND give the legal marriage to his other wife whom he is married to Islamically already. So, now he’s making you out to be a baaaad person, because you want what you are entitle to from a “LEGAL” divorce that that he wants. You simply want what goes along with dissolving a “Legal Marriage?” COME ON!!! Give me a break. I’m sorry to say, Tunis, but I reaaally see how your children are annoyed and frustrated with you…

  • anabellah

    July 5, 2017

    Tunis,

    Yeah, you just need to play it by ear. I see that you make excuses for your husband even if you don’t want to see it or believe that you do. You blame yourself for his behavior towards you. He is the one who said either you agree to a legal divorce or don’t, it doesn’t matter because he will divorce you to make her legal. It’s what you told us. So, how is that your fault?

    Then you made other excuses that you had him long enough and now, she should be legal. You said a Marriage License isn’t important, only an Islamic one is, yet you have a legal one. Next you said you act like a craze woman (which most women in polygamous marriages do when they’re trying to adjust to and accept polygamy) which is why he act towards you as he does. You said your husband had enough of you and your children acting out about him taking on another wife. Now, it’s because you’ve had sexual problems in the past I see it that you make excuses for him about eeeeeeverything.

    You asked why he hasn’t divorced you yet, if he doesn’t want to be with you etc. Well, the answer is simply – Allah hasn’t said be and it is (you’re divorced). Your husband, everyone and anyone can make intentions, whether those intentions get carried out or not, Allah determines it. We don’t.

    The best thing you could do is take it a day at a time and see how it plays out. We were only telling you not to be foolish and give up your marriage license without getting legal counsel and legal documents to protect your interest.

    If you want to trust your husband and take his word for it that he’ll do right by you, then it’s on you. Maybe you’ll get taken (for a fool) or maybe your husband will do the right thing for you. Whichever way it happens, it’s your fate. We can’t escape our fate.

  • Rosa

    July 5, 2017

    Tunis as a third wife I do not have a legally marriage certificate with my husband. Only Islamic. I have properties in my name as well as my children so alhamdullilaah. I skimmed through the posts and someone said how the additional wives understand that when they marry a married man. It’s all good. Like tasliyman said having one and surrendering it to the next wife than not having one to begin with are completely different. We must be grateful for what we have. Others have less. Or not at all.

  • Tunis

    July 5, 2017

    And I will wait and see..if that time comes and he needs to divorce me..over there or here..THAT I bring up I want a document of his promises too me before I consent to a divorce. If Allah puts that in my heart to do so…cause I dont have that in my heart right now..I will do it. I have prayed on whether I should stay with him and got a good sign..well.. there again..that is how I saw it..?

    Inshallah I pray Allah gives me the good of this life and the good of the hereafter.
    And for all of you out there.

  • anabellah

    July 5, 2017

    Tunis,
    I haven’t read all your posts yet. I’ve just skimmed here and there some of it while approving them. I need to make sure no one put in some unapproved links to other sites and stuff. Anyhow, alimony is not child support. Alimony is – say for instance – a wife hasn’t worked in years and the husband had been paying all the household expenses, mortgage, car payment and stuff like that. Well, if they divorce, who would pay it? He would have to give her some money to live – it could be monthly or a lump sum or whatever they agree on or the court decides. It could be until she remarries or for a certain number of years or whatever. So, alimony and child support are two different animals.

  • Tunis

    July 5, 2017

    so Im am trying to grasp myself in all this new path..and see how I am dealing ..my jihad…perhaps I got it all wrong..how I interepted things he said..or his intention….you know maybe its not so far off..men are from mars and women from venus..LOL

    BTW..my children are all grown..there will be no alimoney..to worry about…inheritance in the said country..goes to kids and yes..some to a legal wife…if the husband has not drawn up a will somewhere…like he said he will make sure Im fine.

    So there you have it..if I have not mentioned something you ladies have asked me..ask again..I know you all mean well..but I cannot deal with this any other way then how I am..for some reason..I see what you all see..but I havent that fear. Hmm

  • Tunis

    July 5, 2017

    what I meant regarding a man knows his woman…is if he fears how she might react..he finds away to tell or not to tell..yet…perhaps is why some men do the things they do..when and how and why…You are always saying this too Ana.

  • Tunis

    July 5, 2017

    With all the problems that he and I faced with trying to go forward with polygamy…my kids..and the problems they made between us..etc..you all must read my old posts…which shows they dont accept this way of life.
    My kids nearly tore me apart with their words and my overthinking everything….I was not clear headed..and reacted so badly.and our kids..it was a shocker for us…my husband got so close to having euf of all this..he was clear about his feelings or as Ana has said many times here…perhaps a man knows his woman,,how she is gonna feel about certain things..and figures this is the best way to deal with her based on OUR marriage/family history…

    Im not making excuses…if I want a divorce to secure all that you say I can get..he has said..if Im not happy with what he can give to me..of affection. or what I expect as love.??.then Im free to go find someone else and he will release me..sell the house and give me money. But then it will be over he said..between me and him.
    I have NEVER asked my husband for anything .. future financial security..I have always trusted him…I had sexual problems for years…he never sought out another wife when he could have..going back n forth to america..I even thought I wonder if he has a wife over there..but never asked..I wasnt worried..happy even with the thought someone was taking care of him over there. We always had trust between us..until the day my daughter went up against me and her father about taking another wife..
    I think it would be such a relief to just divorce me..if I were him…instead of putting himself thru all this ..WHY I ask again..if he wants to rid of me..or replace me as some of you think…that his intentions are not good…I believe he doesnt know how to do it..and is afraid if he gets to close to me and confide..im gonna think..yeah he loves me more and act all jealous again.
    Sometimes I think he thinks like this…he has told me too..everytime he does get lovey dovey..I suddenly act all strange..jealous feelings..suspisious thoughts..whatever come over me..I see the pattern too.
    But he has told me this last time…he wants me to get my citizen ship in the other country..I want it too..cause every so many years I have to renew my carte sejour…that I can stay in the house I lived in there..that he will take care of me..
    I feel it was when I acted out of fear that he write something in sons name for my protection…that it hurt him as if I thought that low of him, that he would not think of me. My words were not gentle either…because of the thoughts and fears and whispers that filled my head at the time. Shaytan wanted to break us..when he saw the oppurtunity.

    I think my husband is trying to figure this out..and maybe finding out about her more..like he said..he needs to find things out when he goes back..how it all will work..then if he needs me to divorce..he will send for me.

    He is a man about trust..and it means alot to him..to have his woman trust in him to do the right thing..and he has told me this..words mean alot to him. I have never given him doubt before…he has never lied to me.. .and it has shocked him ..my behavior.

  • Tunis

    July 5, 2017

    Hello everyone,

    My situation sounds complex…perhaps I have created it and made it sound worse than it is…i mean, after all ..wasnt how I handle things and reacted to them…based on how I described my actions and sayings and those of my husband’s…THAT much of the time I was told ..well duh? you should of known better than to say this or react to that..like that…it’s all jealousy..low based feeling intentions..I should have known better than to go there…EVEN after my husband would tell me calmly to “stop.. ..just dont go there..calm down.”.etc..He TRIED…but I couldnt shut up…I was pushing…and I believe he got hurt to from my actions..shocked or let down..cause he thought I had understood accepting of him remarrying.
    Knowing my husband..he can act like a hurt baby TOO..and say hurtful things in the moment…and maybe like someone said..at my moments of displaying jealously ..SHE was giving him some stress too..I dont know. But I want to know ..that how come each time I say ..”OK..let’s split..I cant take this anymore”..because at that time I did NOT have a grip on my emotions….isnt that the goal.?.our biggest problem is dealing with our jealous thoughts and outburst Huh??
    He did it his why to put the fire out on me..but each time I cut up till it explodes. So finally he would say at those times ..”just stay away from me…dont want to touch you or hear you”…etc..yeah things that probably werent the best thing to say….but I ask again then,..why then he hasnt divorced me..when it comes to that point..he say Im gonna do it..I say OK…then nothing happens..3 -5 days go by..then we talk..make up. If he is honest with his feelings about me..that he dont love me the same..but follows it up with..but maybe he will get closer..things will get better..etc..if I dont wrap him up…that is how he sees my behavior…jealous, spying..noisy..things I never did b4 in our marriage.
    He tells me he will take care of me..and all that I said before..yes, we are still intimate..he still wants me..we can get along quite well…if I harness my jealously…and I believe I have…then we have no problems…it’s like I went cold turkey..haha..those thoughts are gone.

    When my husband first thought of remarrying almost 2 years ago..and was talking with the first lady…he shared the dilemma of making her legal..yes that is what she wanted too..she was a 42 yr. old virgin..her mother too wanted legal.it was her who told him..to check his birth certificate if it shows single or married. That he could marry her there..if he showed single..and stay married to me here. I believe he does not know or didnt know..the law involved with that. She was ready for anything he said..but at the end for all that he had asked of her.. ..she needed to be legal..becoz, yes of the society..community.her mother..etc..they feared.! I even agreed with her. !! Yes he did ask me things I think he really wasnt sure about… knowledge wise…cause he knows I can search info out faster and easier…I understand the language better.
    plus he was asking me for a solution…trying to see perhaps what I was willing to do..how to help..since we were open to polygamy..years ago we always talk of it. Anyway, he wanted to marry someone who would accept islamically…so maybe things changed for him..
    So I ask the question…WHY he has not divorced me..if he wants to replace me or get rid of me..and Im willing to go..SO?
    I will cont. my thoughts…just want to get this out there.

  • anabellah

    July 5, 2017

    Tasliyman,

    An important point that you made to Tunis is that women who married their husband in the order of 2nd, 3rd or 4th understood that they would have no Marriage License. Maybe it didn’t matter to them either.

    It apparently was different for Tunis’ co. Probably it matter to her, and apparently a condition of the married was that she would take Tunis’ license from her. It just appears that there was a whole lot of conniving going on. What better way to do it than to marry the man Islamically, consummate the marriage and begin living as husband and wife and THEN emphatically say – get that license for us or you and I are through.

    I’m not saying it’s absolutely the case, but it sure looks as though it is. You know the saying, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it’s a duck…

  • anabellah

    July 5, 2017

    Tasliyman, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    I’m glad you spoke on Tunis’ situation. It doesn’t matter how many times we say something that may be the same or similar. It may be that just one time someone will say something in a slightly different way or even the same that will bring the point home to someone or hearing the same thing enough will make it register to the other person.

    I agree with you 100% that the questions Tunis asked of wives who married in the order of 2nd, 3rd, or 4th don’t compare to her situation. It’s more that Tunis’ husband is trying to unload her and is trying to let her down easy. Of course he is going to be all sweet and loving to her, crying and saying he will always care for her BECAUSE he wants something from her – He wants her to give up her legal Marriage License for his other wife. He wants it desperately. He wants the other woman who is his priority to have what she want and what he and she needs for them to have a legal marriage. In essence, he (and probably his other wife, as well) want to replace Tunis.

    It’s not a matter of polygamy in Tunis’ situation. It’s not about polygamy at all. He is saying that he will divorce her and provide. Whether he will provide, Allah knows best. Whether he will continue to see Tunis, spend time with her and act as a husband to her, Allah knows best.

    Not knowing anything for certain and there is no guarantee, Tunis needs to get while the getting is good. Go to the court, get the divorce and get all that she needs that is monetary and has to do with any property – get it in a court document that can be enforceable by the law. That way if her husband shows his @$$ and tells Tunis to kiss it, she could walk away with her dignity intact and not be penury while her co is living high and mighty off of what Tunis worked for all during her married life with that man. Her children will have inheritance etc.

  • Tasliyman

    July 5, 2017

    Salaam,

    There’s so many responses to Tunis’s situation already but I just felt I had to add the following.

    Tunis, you said something in the line of how would 2nd, 3rd or 4th wives feel if they did not or could not have a marriage licence. Well, to not have one at all and to actually have to give one up and pass it on to another wife is two totally different situations. You cannot compare the two situations.

    You also said something along the lines of – what happened to wanting for others what you want for yourself. You will be taking away from you to give to her – not sharing something between the two of you. She will end up with something that you no longer have. So even that logic is not applicable in your situation.

    If you say that you had the marriage licence all these years now it is her turn to have it; you might as well walk away completely and say that you had your husband to yourself all these years now it is her turn to have him to herself… There’s just no logic in this thinking.

  • LittleSecret

    July 5, 2017

    Heartbroken,

    I am sorry about your situation. It is really sad that you have to end your marriage. Like as one of the sisters here shared, you may lose your self on holding on your marriage, you will not be the same person as your husband was once loved, that person will be gone, so until you still have that, set yourself free. You have endured enough, you tried enough. Do what is best for you and your children. You are wounded now and the process of healing may took so long, it will be hard and painful but we know you can do. Things will be better soon. Inshallah. I’ll pray for your happiness. Hugs sister.

  • LittleSecret

    July 5, 2017

    Sister Tunis,
    I just finish reading the thread in June 2017 and want to point some things.

    I think you need to clarify the real situation of your co and your husband in that country. Yes it is the law of the land and we have to abide on its rules. On my understanding of what you have stated in june discussion, your husband wants to divorce you in the country they will do the marriage. But you will retain legally married in US, you will not bring to court in US your divorce, only in the said country of your co. I think it is not possible to do that. If you were married in the US you should divorce in US, your husband will just bring the attested document of your divorce to the country where they will marry. If that happens, all your husband’s property will be in the now “legal” wife unless he provided you a legal document that he will secure what is yours before they married. No one knows what will happen in the future. Maybe your co will eventually want the husband’s property to be hers and her kids alone sense She have all legal rights.

    Second, why they need to marry legally there? If it is bigamy that is their problem, it will be bigamy if he marries her to court but if they will retain islamically married they will not have that problem. It is no difference in US sense bigamy is not allowed too or in my country or their country. It will just be a problem if the previous husband file a case of infidelity/adultery to your co. If no one is filing a criminal case then they can be islamically married. There are people who are living together even they are married to someone else. It is a sin, but many are doing. Did they go to jail? Did they have criminal case? Did the authority check if they have marriage cert? NO. So why they need to do that?

    I dont want to sound suspicious but maybe they just told you about the jail issue for you to give up the legality of your marriage. Ofcourse that is one of their consideration but not probably the main reason. Maybe your co wants to be the legal wife cause in their society it is unacceptable and that jail issue just cover up what she really wants. We dont know. Did you talk to your co?

    Best thing is research about the law in that country. Know the real situation there. Your husband needs help and you wanted to do, it is ok. But just be knowledgeable of the consequence of what you are going to give up. Don’t stick in your decision that you will divorce if they needed that without checking what is the root of that matter, why suddenly they needed to do? Look at all faces dear.

    I hope and pray the best for you sister.

  • anabellah

    July 5, 2017

    Wa Alaikum As Salaam, LittleSecret

  • LittleSecret

    July 5, 2017

    Ana,
    Salaam sister.
    Yes. Husband should provide the legal document to Tunis so they can have inheritance or anything and should be attested before engaging to other marriage. Tunis have to secure this matter, because after he married the co, she can have “alimony” (which I am not very familiar, sorry) as per the divorce proper but properties will be conjugal to the “legal” wife.

  • LittleSecret

    July 5, 2017

    Tunis,
    Sister, how are you?
    I don’t know your whole story. But based on the comments I read your husband is there in other country with your co? Does your husband still see you? If law in the country of your co is like on mine i suggest to think about it and pray about it. I agree with all the sisters and brother here. It is your license to all your right. Yes, your husband may have a good intention about it, the want legal but it would cause giving up your right. It is yours, you own it. You know, I had a relationship with an Egyptian who got engaged to a cousin. He wanted to marry me first in secret before his marriage to his cousin and I asked him to marry me in my country because I know for the fact the power of marriage there, I will have my license and we can’t divorce. (but we will not marry anymore, I will update on other post). My point is maybe your co have idea like mine if she know that that is the law in their land. I don’t hve any bad intention when I asked him to marry in my country, nor harm his cousin, I just want to have security that he can’t nullify our marriage easily sense he wanted it secret. And that is my security and you have your security, your marriage license. And it appears to me that your husband see “wife” on the other not on you but you are still holding on because you love your husband. But the thing that is linking you to him (aside from the years you’ve shared) is your license. Don’t give it easily. I agree to brother abdullah and gail and ana to use your brain not just heart on this. You may end up with nothing. It is true to put our trust in Allah/God, but He gave us free will, He gave us chance to choose. We have to pray and ask him earnestly what is His Will for us. Take time to pray, dont rush things. Be rational and check all sides first.
    May God bless you sister.

  • anabellah

    July 5, 2017

    Anything Tunis’ husband leaves to and for Tunis and the children, the new legal wife could contest ( fight) in court and would most likely win, since he produced a document before the marriage indicating his marriage to Tunis was dissolved.

  • anabellah

    July 5, 2017

    Littlesecret,

    Thanks much for sharing the info. You confirmed that anything Tunis and her kids want to get from the marriage (money, property, real estate etc) they better get before he makes a legal marriage with the other because despite what he says what is his is going to belong to his new legal wife, as well, if I understand correctly.

  • Rosa

    July 5, 2017

    Heartbroken

    Sometimes love isn’t enough. May Allah make this transition easy for you and grant you peace of mind and soul and may you grow nearer to Him. Ameen

  • LittleSecret

    July 5, 2017

    Tunis,
    As Salaam Alaikum and all the sisters here.
    I came from a country that the rule in marriage is like your co-wife. I want to clarify if they are about to marry or already married? I am from Philippines, and in my country a man and woman should provide a Certificate of NO Marriage before they could marry. And it’s true that they can be put to jail if they pursue it with the other one still on other marriage. But that could only happen if another party brings to court the issue (like the previous husband appeal to court about it). Seems to me that the previous husband is not in good terms with your co. Check on this. Is there a threat on them that the previous husband will file a case if she married again? Because if it is not the case then no need to worry about them having trouble, but they could still not marry. Don’t rush on your decision sister. In country like mine, our constitution protects the sanctity of marriage, and if I am not mistaken, we are the only country that doesnt have divorce, so if your co is a filipina be careful on giving up on your marriage license, because once you give it up, there’s no way they could divorce, only annulment. And that applies that all properties are conjugal and she will still hold the legal right no matter what.

  • Gail

    July 4, 2017

    Heartbroken,
    I am sorry u r struggling so much.If u are serious and do decide to go through with the divorce then make sure u get everything in writing and also have it put that he will pay for the children’s education(very important).

  • anabellah

    July 4, 2017

    Heartbroken, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    I am so sorry to hear that you intend to ask your husband for a divorce. If you think and feel it is in your best interest and that of your kids to seek a divorce from your husband, then you’ve got to do what you’ve got to do. As you stated, your husband doesn’t seem to have a problem with you two going your separate ways and he won’t try to get custody of the children, so it should make it much easier. Insha Allah, it will be amicable.

    @Heartbroken and Karima, As Salaamu Alaikum,

    Pray to Allah and take your complaints to Him about your marriage and your desire for a divorce. Insha Allah, He’ll bring a divorce to fruition for you and make it easy for you.

  • anabellah

    July 4, 2017

    Lost Soul and Flower,

    I had a feeling I had missed mentioning some of the commentators here who had given input to Tunis about her situation. My sincerest apologies. With so many writing here and with writers coming and going, it’s difficult for me to keep track sometimes of who said what and when LOL

    Lost Soul, now that you mentioned it again, I remember that it was you who had said previously to Tunis, “They must have been fully aware of the situation and legal problems the second marriage entails.” Definitely, I am with you on your assessment.

  • Abdullah_Pakistani

    July 4, 2017

    AOA,
    Sister I am so so sorry!
    my first post on this blog was for you, it seems it was too little too late.
    I wish your in laws had stepped in and made your husband realize what he is doing is so so wrong…
    I will pray for you ..
    May Allah SWA grant you a pleasant and peaceful life and bless you and your family ever so much .. AMEEN

  • Karima

    July 4, 2017

    Salam

    Dear Heartbroken i feel for u soooo much.i Wish i could Be strong enough to file for a divorce….sending u a big hug!!!

  • Heartbroken

    July 4, 2017

    Salam All,
    Just wanted to give an update on my situation. I have decided to ask my husband for a divorce. I really cannot stand the emotional torture anymore and I feel holding on is emotionally and mentally killing me. He has made it clear that he has no problems with me leaving so there will hopefully be no problems from his end.
    The kids will Inshallah remain with me and I pray we end things amicably. We have spoken a bit about us separating so it’s not going to ba a bolt out of the blue for him.
    I think it might be a relief for him and me instead of dragging on. I don’t think I can stay with my self esteem in shreds. He had agreed sometime back to continue to pay for the kids education and to also give me a property in my name for our kids future. I hope he still sticks to his words.

    I am of course heartbroken with this decision but Inshallah I find the strength to carry on with dignity. I still love him a lot but I cannot be broken anymore AND our kids cannot take anymore negativity.
    Please pray for me and that Allah guides me in this tough time.

    Khudahafiz all

  • Flower

    July 4, 2017

    Tunis

    Iv only skimmed the latest comments so I don’t know of someone has already said it, but in your earliest comments you said you daughters feel like your too passive with your husband and let him do and get away with anything. I’m inclined to agree with them. You can not allow him to take away your marriage licence and give it to another woman. I don’t think your stupid but I think your in a habit of letting him emotionally manipulate you. He says you should ‘trust’ him and things of that nature. You disagreed at first but over time he has convinced you, and now your going along with it. I don’t think you should have stood up to him and left when he entered polygamy as your daughters said but on this occasion I would definitely give him a firm NO, AND STICK TO IT. He may be angry and upset with you, but you can’t trust a man and his new wife, in the beginning of polygamy, they are all about them in the beginning and you have to look out for yourself. If there one thing iv learned in polygamy it’s passiveness doesn’t help you. In monogamy it makes no difference but there is another person involved who more than likely sees you as a competitor and wants to make her mark.

  • Lost Soul

    July 4, 2017

    Tunis,
    It all boils down to a sentence YOU wrote.
    He will divorce me legally whether I agree or not.

    Why do you try to make it sound like you have a choice in this?

    It wasn’t your idea neither are you doing this willingly. If it was totally your choice and you were doing it happily and willingly then you wouldn’t have even brought up the subject to be discussed.

    Seems to me you are just trying to justify his actions. That’s ok too as you love him and wanna stay married to him. But don’t say that you trust Allah and this is the best course of action and to just sit back blindly and roll over. That doesn’t make sense to me.

    Now the ladies here are advising you as they are concerned for you. You may not realize it but most of what you say now sounds like you are just repeating your husbands words verbatim.

    And for some reason you want to stay married to him no matter what and that’s cool too as it’s your choice..BUT be prepared to face the consequences if any.

    As I said earlier, They must have been fully aware of the situation and legal problems the second marriage entails.

    And to take away from one wife to give another is also not right. He needs to be able to tell her, Well,since this is the situation now.. We need to come up with a solution and if all fails,we may have to divorce.. NOT well I will take away from one wife (whether she agrees or not), just so that the other can be safe or whatever.

    Just because he hasn’t divorced you yet doesn’t mean you are his priority. It just means he still wants two wives.

    But he has made it amply clear that in any instance in the future, she is his first priority. Not You! As he is willing to take from you to give her, and to make sure that their marriage is safe and she is safe and well taken care of.

    Now I don’t know your past history here as I haven’t read about it, so I am writing with an unbiased view so its not even like I am basing my words on your husbands past actions towards you.

    Anyway it’s totally up to you. Take the advice given here. Get all your documents set up and then you can sit back and say you did the best to your ability.
    You agreed to the legal divorce to help them out. You also made sure you would not be taken for a fool, And then say, I trust Allah to do what is best for me now.

  • anabellah

    July 3, 2017

    Tunis,

    I’m sorry, but polygamy is not about putting a woman out to pasture once another one show up on the scene or anything of the sort. Another woman doesn’t take the place of the other. It’s not about, for instance, the new comer saying: oh, you’ve been his legal wife long enough, now it’s my turn. ummof4 shared what happened in her life. She stated that a woman whom her husband had considered marrying said to her husband that ummof4 had been married to him long enough and it was now her turn. He told that woman to get to steppin. I didn’t tell the story verbatim.

    Polygamy is not about another woman replacing the one(s) who is there already. If he wants to make a replacement, then he should just divorce the other outright. Polygamy is about treating all the wives kindly and justly. He’s to to fair with them and be with them on a footing of equality.

    I’ll say it again. It’s very sad what Tunis is going through and dealing with at this time with her husband. Furthermore, it’s not about accepting polygamy. It goes deeper than that. It seems he’s trying to scam her. He needs a beating…

  • anabellah

    July 3, 2017

    Tunis, Rosa, Abdullah_Pakistani:

    Abdullah_Pakistani, WOW!

    That was a POWERFUL post you wrote to Tunis. Reading that should make her head spin. You spoke of something I didn’t consider – that Tunis’ other wife could clean him out and would be legal to do it, leaving Tunis and her children with zilch, absolutely nothing. Her husband is up there talking about having all this control, saying he won’t let his other wife take from him. His other wife is already leading him by the nose, having him do what she wants. She could end up spending money like it’s going out of style – just to keep Tunis and her kids from having anything left. Who knows what that woman is plotting.

    As you said, it is “stupidity” on Tunis’ part and as Gail said, Tunis needs to use the brain that God gave her. As you stated, Allah told us to trust Him. He didn’t say trust a spouse because you love him or he loves her. She’ll get exactly what she deserve, if she trusts her husband.

    @Rosa,

    You mentioned something VERY important, how Tunis’ husband became annoyed when she asked who had folded his clothes. Tunis can’t even communicate with her husband as in express herself or ask him questions without him becoming annoyed or angry. She has to treat him with kid gloves or walk about as if walking on egg shells. What does she think will happen when she is no longer legal? He definitely won’t answer any questions or tolerate her. He could SIMPLY say, “I divorce you” and keep it movin. What’s she going to do then? – Go to her daughter, who will say – I told you so.

    Tunis is trying to accept polygamy when it seems all her husband wants to do is rid himself of Tunis and move on with his other wife, legally. Very sad. It’s not about him wanting two wives to love and care for. Based on all that Tunis has said in the past, he treated her and their family like crap while treating the other wife like royalty.

    If Tunis’ husband was sincere, he’d have Tunis agree to get rid of the marriage license and would give her at least 1/2 of all they’ve accumulated over the years, what’s in the bank accounts, real estate and whatever else she that is fair. Then if she and he don’t make it as husband and wife under the Islamic marriage and he moves on without her, at least she’s got her due. She needs to be wise and prudent!

  • Abdullah_Pakistani

    July 3, 2017

    AOA,
    Sister Tunis,
    I apologize but there is big difference between trust in Allah SWA and OUTRIGHT STUPIDITY !!!
    Don’t jump off a building saying you trust Allah SWA and HE SHALL save you !!!!
    Let’s suppose your dear husband is totally sincere in keeping you and needs this license to save his life or second marriage .. whatever
    AND you give it to them and after a while this second wife takes your fool of a husband to the cleaners !!!! Now she is all legal and citizen etc and she walks away with all she can carry and more!!! Of WHAT is yours right NOW!!
    Sister please .. please realize this is not just about a piece of legal paper, this is about your financial security which will vaporize the instant you surrender the marriage certificate!! Putting you at the utter mercy of your dear husband and his new wife!
    As others have suggested get a settlement nice and proper and then trust Allah SWA that your husband will be just and kind to you In Sha Allah..

    Lastly the thing about he telling you that if you want to stay married you got to surrender the Marriage License ..
    Please tell him you trust only Allah SWA and want him to go through the process of a settlement that what good couples do .. there is give and there is take … so he gets what he wants and you shall get what you deserve a peace of mind instead of just his words which more than likely going to change once you have given him what he is after…
    Give him put not unconditionally !!! Please ..trust ALLAH SWA not this husband !! there is a big difference

  • Rosa

    July 3, 2017

    Tunis. Put your full trust in ALLAH

    Your husband was just treating you like scrum off the bottom of his shoes a few months ago. You couldn’t even ask him who folded his clothes without him going from 1 to a hunnit. now all of a sudden he made a 360 once he realised he needed you for something
    Tunis think with your mind not with your heart. Do as ana said if you do decide to go down this road. Get everything documented sis. This other woman can be a scammer. There’s a lot of ppl out there with ill intent. Don’t become victim of it. Look for signs of good will from her part. So far it’s been nothing short of crickets.

  • Rosa

    July 3, 2017

    I too think it’s too early in the game to blindly trust Tunis husband and co wife for that matter. I mean there are no signs whatsoever of Tunis’s co having good intentions. Never made an effort to reach out to her before nor after the marriage. And a mountain of other things Tunis mentioned prior. Who knows what her motives are. She definitely seems to be getting her ducks in a row playing it smart. Tunis does not need to jump duck n roll with this one. If their husband and her co does not have a prenuptial agreement signed n delivered and they divorced, couldn’t tunis co negotiate a house, property, alimony etc. Hold onto that license with your dear life. What’s the rush anyway. Why not wait a few years until yall get a feel on what type of person she is…..oh yeah you said they can go to jail Tunis I can’t help but to laugh that sounds ludicrous. Like ana said do they go house to house asking for documented attested proof.

  • anabellah

    July 3, 2017

    Tunis,

    I can’t believe when you first came to this blog, I was trying to convince you to stay in the polygamous marriage and not listen to your daughters. Now, I’m trying to let you see why your husband doesn’t appear to be doing right by you. SIGH I hate to say it, but I really think your daughters may have been right. It was more than about accepting polygamy…

  • anabellah

    July 3, 2017

    Tunis,

    It’s seems we (Rosa, Abdul_Pakistani, Serena, Gail, Mari2 and I – I hope I didn’t miss anyone) are on the same page with regard to your situation. There is much that you may be entitled to with regard to a legal divorce as Mari2 mentioned.

    I know I must be repeating myself at this point. I’m sorry, but I’m concerned about you. If he wants the divorce, don’t agree to it. Let him do it. Let him file the paperwork and do the whole nine yards. Get an attorney, which you’ll need to do anyhow, and have him or her get for you all that you are entitled to documented. That way you will have legal recourse, if he reneges on the deal. He’s not the most trustworthy person, and you know it. After that-you’ve gotten it all legally documented, you and he could continue your Islamic marriage, if that’s what you want to do. There is no need for you to simply take his word for it that he will do the right thing by you.

    I agree with Gail that your husband is bullying you into going along with the legal divorce. It’s not a good look. Furthermore, I doubt that he would respect you, if you go along with it. I’m sure the co-has something up her sleeves.

    What has the co said to you about it? Are you two friendly with one another? If you intend to give up your marriage license to her, you should have conversations with her about it, so she knows that you still intend to remain Islamically married to him and he’s not going to make you a secret wife. What does he intend the schedule to be after the legal divorce?

    I don’t know. I get a very baaaad feeling about the whole thing. What’s to say that he won’t divorce you, marry her and they ride off into the sunset together, and you’ll barely, if ever, see him again? I don’t think Gail is far off in thinking that you may be setting yourself up to feel like a fool and cry yourself to sleep often.

    At least try to maintain your dignity. At least get what you’re due for you and you children.

  • Mari2

    July 3, 2017

    Which country is Tunis living in? The US? If so she can negotiate a divorce settlement. All she has to do is retain a lawyer and she could possibly negotiate for maintenance/alimony, she could require him to take out a life insurance policy making either her or the kids beneficiaries. She could ask that he provide her with a dwelling if applicable. If he owns a business she can negotiate a share of ownership, she could ask that he pay her health insurance, she could ask to receive a percentage of any 403b or IRA or state/federal retirement benefits upon his retirement. There’s quite a long list of things Tunis could negotiate for. And some of those things she might well be legally entitled to if she is in the US.

    And if Tunis is in the US, her husband must divorce her well before he engages to and or marries the next wife. Failure of him to do so puts him smack dab on the slippery slope toward bigamy.

    As for not being the legal wife in the case of a husband’s death..yes it does remove the non legal wife from being able to do things like funeral arrangements, make medical decisions etc. However, the legal wife also has legal requirements to pay toward any debt of her deceased husband and funeral costs. Soo…its a bit of a Catch 22 right there for legal wife.

  • Gail

    July 3, 2017

    Ana,
    You are very sweet to try to warn Tunis but I’m not sure she will listen I think her mind might be made up although I don’t believe for a second she is making the right choice in her case at this time in her life.I don’t believe any wife should ever be bullied into giving up her legal marriage certificate.It’s not right morally speaking.

  • Gail

    July 3, 2017

    Ana,
    I agree with you that Tunis is not seeing her situation clearly and making excuses for her husband is the way I see it.I don’t believe for a second Tunis could possibly believe in her heart that after he told her to take it or he will divorce her anyway that she could possibly think that anywhere in her mind that is fair and just.If Tunis wanted to do it out of the goodness of her heart without her husband forcing her that would be a different story but that is not the case sense her husband has told her do it or else.That not love and trust from a spouse that’s a dominating spouse at this point in the game.If I was Tunis I wouldn’t go for it because him and her cowife knew the laws in her home country and this seems like to me more of a cowife trying to get the upper hand and the husband going along with the program.I honestly think if Tunis does this she will be crying in a few years at her stupidity.Everyone says Allah this and Allah that but Allah also gave us a brain to use and I think it’s crazy not to use the brain Allah/G.D has given us.Why not tell them No and trust in Allah/G.D that u will be looked after if your crappy husband tries to divorce you against your will.She has grown children after all.I really wouldn’t do it sense he is trying to bully her into it.

  • Serena

    July 3, 2017

    Salam

    Tunis

    I remember your earlier posts where your husband wasn’t always being open with you. Like when he went to marry you didn’t even know when he was coming back and if I remember correctly he actually hid the marriage from you.

    I hope you both have moved forward and Tunis for your sake I hope your husband is going to do right when it comes to what your entitled to as his wife.

    I don’t know but it just sounds all fishy. Next he probably will want to bring her to the US because of problems in her country.

    Tunis yes he could outright divorce you but that would not look good on your husband. It’s probably better for his reputation to keep you as his wife.

    I think you are being naive. Anyway you seem to have made up your mind. I hope you are at a stage where you feel at peace being in a polygamous situation.

  • Tunis

    July 3, 2017

    Thankyou Ana. I suppose it does sound contradicting.
    I guess..i mean..sure if we ALL(all wives) could have legal status because of what it could afford us or its benefits and protections…based on mans law…that would be ideal..because we must deal with man made laws at times.
    So I guess..in my case..it is not neccessary anymore….
    If I made legsl status sound not important..i apologize….i dont think i mean that….
    I think im trying to clarity how and why it is applying to me.
    And the struggles I was coming to terms with it..and at the same time….worried what his other ‘s intentions were…..trying to protect my husbands interest and mine? Which could be a reality. But that part is really out of my control….that is between her and Allah. I dont want to think badly of anyone anymore. He (hubby)says he knows what he is doing…so he will also be answerble. As for me….i can divorce and get some monetary security….sure etc and see where my life goes…Allah provides. But I still love my husband….and he is good to me…..id rather be in his world…than be without him in mine(a song..i know.lol) so I will do what I have to do to remain in his life…..and if Allah provides something else for me…because HE is just and knows what we need.

    But i am not disregarding the importantance or benefits that come with a legal marriage. If i did that..sorry.

    How do the 2nd or third or fourth wives feel..then..especailly if they r still within child barring age…..and living in a country with laws as I have describe ?
    Thanks again Ana

  • anabellah

    July 3, 2017

    Do anyone else have any thoughts on Tunis situation that they’d like to share here?

  • anabellah

    July 3, 2017

    Tunis,

    I could see you telling your husband that you won’t be a part of that (agreeing to give up your legal marriage) especially because you have a couple of daughters and, if I’m not mistaken, a son who don’t want you to be with your husband anymore. Insha Allah, they’d be there for you, and you could begin a fresh new life. You indicated he’s not intimate with you. He could continue to provide without you being married and humiliated.

    Does the fact that he does not want to be intimate with you or show you love and affection until he sees that you’re hurt and he tries to comfort you bother you? Are you willing to go through your life looking at that man and knowing he doesn’t want you that way?

    Are you willing to call his bluff and say you won’t divorce him and if he must, then go ahead and do it. If he divorces you, at least you’d have a court order laying out what you’d get in terms of the house and what expenses he must continue to pay, etc. You wouldn’t just be taking his word for it.

    If you have court documents, you always have that to fall back on. I suppose you never thought your husband would up and take your legal marriage from you to give to another. Crap happens.

  • anabellah

    July 3, 2017

    Tunis,

    Your husband knew good and well what the laws are in the country in which his other wife is before he went there and got with her. So did she. Someone else here has already mentioned it; I can’t recall who it was. Furthermore, it sounds that your husband is lying about the other wife needs to be legal because if someone finds out she’s not – do people go house to house in that country and ask the residents to produce their marriage license? Why don’t he tell her, look, you can’t be legal and if you insist, then we can’t be married then?

    Everyone is different. I always say we don’t know what we’d do in the future. We know our disposition though. Based on mine, and how I feel today, if my husband had another wife or was getting ready to and said to me that I have to give up my marriage license willingly or else – give it up unwillingly, as he would divorce me. I feel safe to say today that I’d tell him. NO. It ain’t happening. I’m keeping it. Allah knows best if he’d follow up and would divorce me. If he did, I’d say see ya, wouldn’t want to be ya, and it would be the end of him and me. I have no doubt I could have another husband or I’d not have one. Having none is better than my husband taking from me to give to her when he and I agreed to have a marriage license from jump street, and it was no problem. Don’t take my license from me to give to her and then say I can lump it or leave it, because she means more to me than you. After, I’ve been married to you ex amount of years and in your case bore you children, and then you dismiss me that way. Huh…. It’s my take on it.

  • anabellah

    July 3, 2017

    Tunis, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    I suppose what’s troubling to me is that you outlined the reasons that a legal marriage is not important and even gave examples of Prophet Abraham (PBUH). I get it. I don’t dispute with you about that. I totally believe and know that a legal marriage is not necessary and it could become a problem when a husband has one with a wife (not anticipating that he’d become polygamous) and later marries another and that wife doesn’t have one.

    The thing is, you minimize the importance of a legal marriage. You justify in your mind why one isn’t important, the whole while, you prepare and plan to end your legal marriage so she could be legal. If you just left it at a legal marriage isn’t necessary, I could get with it. However, in one breathe you’re saying legal doesn’t matter and in another you’re saying that it does. It’s a contradiction.

  • Tunis

    July 3, 2017

    Maybe you all will better see where I have been trying to come from and dealing with, emotion wise, and so forth.
    I , in the end , can choose too, what I may want at this point in my life..and if Allah wills this for me. We can all plan and plot and wish and hope..but know Allah is the Disposer of all our affairs.

    I know all my past posts when I first joined..where full of a lot of different tests me and my husband were faced with..which was very trying on both of us. Ugly things came out of both of us…but we stood strong in face of all that came our way…shaytan was on our backs trying to break us apart at whatever costs…
    I only shared all my fears and thoughts and how I saw and heard things..and based on that..and what I have finally come to resolve for me..I thank all of you for your concern and insight and support..it has all been so helpful, even if in the end ya all think I am bonkers…..well, as Ana always say..let’s see what happens !

    I will update as time goes on about me.

    May Allah keeps us all on the straight path…and guide our ways and manners to be correct.
    Ameen

  • Tunis

    July 3, 2017

    Salams,

    Maybe its a hard pill to swallow for some of you, because this is the reality I think I am in…and others sisters may or could be facing…and that is…for whatever reasons a MAN wants another wife OR falls out of passion or love for his first for whatever reasons…but can and will still care for her as a companion and all the years they had together…and willing to stay with her and care for her…and give her what Allah inclines his heart to do and give her…and taking into consideration all my children are grown adults now…and the fact that he will see to my security..in Will form…where a new wife/children cannot contest it unless she/they can prove malicious intent on part of the testator.
    My husband could just outright divorce me and be over with us…but he wants to marry another , which is his right. But the dilemma is he is faced with having to live with her legally in that country to avoid any problems with the law…its not like couples just living together in america which is the norm and not punishable by law. Where do ya all live if you know this is not the case in certain countries.?? Anyway besides that..the fact of how my husband feels towards me..he has given me the choice to stay with him..and he will provide..or I can go. Yes if I demand I will not give up my legal man made status…and say go figure something else to protect you and your other wife from the law there…doesnt make sense to me…there must be trust between a husband and a wife…yes sacrifices are made
    …as an example that just comes to mind..Sara gave her handmaiden to Prophet Ibrahim…so he could bear an heir..perhaps…maybe the new wife would or not…?? But she sacrificed something..and they didnt have all this legal paper work for the husband to provide for his wife..and she demand proof of it. There was trust. Or Hagar..when Ibrahim left her in the desert..there was trust and it from Allah that our husbands will do the right thing.

    Yes we were just trying to find out if I would be able to retain my legal status…if he needed to remarry legally there…but I see what that means..bigamy..so what is the solution ladies and gents..you may find it hard to except..but my husband did ask me for a solution..when he shared with me his intention of marrying a second woman. I had legal status for all these years…so I am willing to sacrifice as some call it..so my husband can be legal. When we married the first time..islamically only..he could have choose to keep it like that. You did mention this Ana at one time..all wives could be islamically married…if he is a Believer he will do right by them..so now its her turn for some protection..and yes I will trust my husband to do the right thing. I put my trust in Allah to guide his heart in that matter.

  • Gail

    July 3, 2017

    Tunis,
    I want to chime in as well and point out to u that there is this saying that a person must stand for something or they will fall for anything.I think u may very well be at that point in your own life.It sounds like to me your husband is trying to bully you and u are letting him kick u like an old dog.I would urge u to stand up to him for the sake of yourself and your children and not let him walk all over you.I never let my husband get by with walking all over me and I also never gave up my marriage license.I think u will cry later on if u go along with your husbands program in this matter and furthermore he will not respect u in the long run if u don’t stand up for yourself verses if u do.

  • anabellah

    July 3, 2017

    Tunis,

    As you know, I’m thinking along the same lines as “Lost Soul, Rosa, and Brother Abdullah-Pakistani”. You’re willing to give up your legal Marriage License to another woman and it means that she will have legal authority to determine what will happen with your husband’s estate and any property real or otherwise etc, in the event of his death. A “Last Will and Testament” is fine and good, but some laws depending on the country or State supersede a will in the case of a spouse. A legal spouse can override a “Will” sometimes. There is no telling whether his other wife would put Islamic law above what your husband has put in a “Will” once he’s passed away. She knows the worldly value of a legal marriage, which is probably why she wants it. She’ll have burial rights and all with regard to him and will determine what your children get etc

    If you’re simply going along with what your husband wants, so that you will have a husband and keep him in your life, then you could give up everything in order to have that. However, see it for what it is and stop making excuses for her, him and you.

    Allah knows best if you will be happy living with him that way knowing that he was willing to divorce you whether you accepted giving up or Marriage License or not. His other wife means that much to him and you that little.

    Anyhow, you must make your intention, since he’s already made his. You let him divorce you and walk away from him completely or let him divorce you and remain in your life as his husband (in an Islamic marriage) with a hope and a prayer. You are allowed to do that.

    “If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband’s part there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves; and such settlement is best; even though men’s souls are swayed by greed. But if ye do good and practice self-restraint Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do.” Quran: Surah 4, Ayah 128

  • Abdullah_Pakistani

    July 3, 2017

    AOA,
    Dear Sister Tunis,
    Please dig deep into the heart of your heart and see if this is a sacrifice you really want to make for your children!
    You may have come to terms with this God Awful demand of your husband but doesn’t the mother inside you want to protect your children. Please do not give in to this demand for the sake of your children, standup for their right to be recognized in this world as your husbands legitimate children and heir to his name and inheritance …
    This “Will of Allah SWA” that you say you are subjecting yourself is not the will of Allah SWA it seems more like the wish of your Co Wife and Husband !!
    Sorry to say this is not Islam to try to protect your husband, if he wants a new wife so bad let him keep it in a neighboring country.

  • Rosa

    July 3, 2017

    Tunis

    I’m glad you came to a decision but I’d have to agree with lost soul. You sought advise here about the marriage license and basically shot down every piece of sound advice given when it seems your mind was already made up. If your husband dies she calls the shots and inherits everything. Your Islamic marriage probably won’t be recognised in the court of law.

  • anabellah

    July 2, 2017

    Tunis,

    Yes, want for your sister what you want for yourself. She now has a husband – yours, whom you are now SHARING. It doesn’t mean give her all you’ve got. It seems like you’re trying to justify acceptance of whatever he and she are dishing out to you.

  • Serena

    July 2, 2017

    Salam

    Amonie

    You did the right thing to investigate the new wife. If everything is ok about her and nothing that will affect your family then that’s good alhumdulillah. Also if it’s something about her past and it won’t affect your marriage then perhaps it is best you keep it to yourself.

    Not sure what you found out but if it’s something that your husband should know but doesn’t then I don’t know how you would go about telling him especially if its a negative thing.

    Again if it’s something that the other wives should know about then maybe when all you lot are together then indirectly ask her or start a discussion about what you found out? See if she reveals the information herself.

    Nothing wrong with being that safety person especially like in your case where you are all open aa wives. Was thinking maybe as she is new she needs time to get used to the other wives and open up more.

  • Tunis

    July 2, 2017

    I wanted to end my very LONG comment with saying..
    I trust in Allah, and in whatever Allah decrees for me I will submitmy affairs to Allah with patience, contentment and thankfulness.

    This is what I believe I have gained and learned here from this blog and all its wonderful commentators.
    Jazakallah

  • Tunis

    July 2, 2017

    Asalamu alaikum to all
    And thank you to all who has responded to my questions.
    First of all I would just like to say my islamic marriage..thru the mosque and witnesses….being how I got married firstly…is to me and my husband our binding contract…hence what most refer to as ‘Islamically married’. After the honeymoon…we went to the city court and before the county joined in marriage..therefore making it legal in the law of man…being registered and so forth….yes to have whatever benefits came from that legal document….I understand…that is here in the US….I could have remained only islamically…???? Which is easier to do in the US.

    BUT…in other countries…as in the US…polygamy is not allowed…as in the country I lived b4….to be islamically married there..alone…does not make it legal…it is not the norm that is excepted over there….if a woman has children…she must prove her legality in marriage….its still a crime….fornication..adultery…..they do not except polygamy there.
    Therefore that is the only solution…when a man takes on a new wife in a country like this. One cannot always trust the people in the community….envy..jealousy..etc…to report others…or the behavior of ex spouses..etc. yes..its their problem..but he is also my husband. He is not abandoning me…nor wants divorce me. I believe in Allah and I trust Him to have my husband do right b4 Allah with me.
    Everything I have shared here on this blog about my situation…was firstly only my side of the story and how I reacted and heard it..and so forth….i am in know why letting him off the hook..so to speak..for his insensitive talk..as is how I took it….bur he had his own intentions too..i believe know..in why he did or said what he said….that i always took the wrong way..or responded inapproiately..because of my envy and jealousy that was out of control blinding me.
    I have resolved or am getting under control my jealous outburst…im much much better..alhamdulilah.
    I was told scary stories of new wives using the husband and so forth…and warned to protect myself..which suddenly brought upon me a distrust..which i never had b4 for my husband… Allah is the disposer of alk our affairs…i dont care what legal document a woman thinks she has for her security…all that comes from Allah. To say ..no way…would i give up my legal document…for another woman…well..whatever happen to want for your sister what you want for yourself…. and yes each situation is different and should be dealt with accordingly with fairness and justice and doing the right thing that is best for all.
    I had my husband legally for many years..kids r all legal according to mans law..reaping the benefits thereof…have s.s. from him to claim ..if need be…and yes..he has told me he will take care of me and can write what he wants in his will. He is only looking into the best interest of the new wife now …which I think is a good thing…being that the country they will marry in has laws against living together without proof..if caught..its a crime there.
    I hope i have shed some light on this..so you all may understand from what viewpoint i come from.
    I dont believe my husbands us up to anything …i believe now. .all along he had good intentions..i just took him for a loop..because he took my word when we first married…about accepting polygamy…and believed in me. I m sure i acted like i reniged on that word…yes because one never knows how one will b in any given situation.
    Yes my husband and me have come to terms…and he is still here with me after all my struggles and fears . He tried to b patient and calm…but one can b pushed so far..they snap to…we both were tested.
    I understand the law of not holding 2 legal documents.. and what it intails.. that just goes to show you…my husband still wanted to keep me legal..lol…we can be niave…
    I want the best for my husband and safety too.. if that us stupi..so b it.
    Also to the Brother who responded…being divorced could invalidate my islamic marraige…my understanding it cannot…especailly since our intention is NOT to split….only end mans law of a marraige.
    I must stop now..may cont..lol.

  • Mari2

    July 2, 2017

    For immigration purposes, the one who holds the valid license here in the US is the wife. If a man has a license holding wife in the US, sure he can marry another back home but he can’t bring her here unless he gets a court divorce from other wife in the US.

    If a man has only an Islamic marriage in the US, he can marry back home, and bring that woman here and she will be considered his legally recognized wife here in the US. Which is my case. Polygamy is actually not illegal in the US, bigamy is.

    I don’t know how things roll in Pakistan but I know M married his Visa wife there. And while he sought and received a civil divorce in the US, he never divorced her legally in Pakistan nor did he grant her an Islamic divorce here.

    His former wife was told by her local Imam that since M has not yet divorced her islamically she is for all intents and purposes religion wise still considered to be his wife.

    It’s a bit like Catholic church…one may divorce in civil court but as to church protocols are still considered to be married religiously until am annulment is granted by the church.

  • Lost Soul

    July 1, 2017

    Tunis,
    Seems to me you have already decided to give in and give him the legal divorce. Maybe I read your post wrong but I thought you asked advice about it as you were unsure yourself.

    Personally I feel the story about them being thrown in jail is a load of cock an bull, pardon my French!

    They were well aware of the situation and consequences. So why this desperate need to suddenly get her a legal marriage?

    Which by the way doesn’t make sense. He CANNOT be legally married to you in the US and married to her in another country. He can only be married to ONE woman legally. Islamically he can be married to four but legally only one. And you said he will divorce you legally whether you want it or not so that doesn’t sound like a man to trust blindly.

    We can only advise you. I wish you the best and hope that he’s doesn’t break your trust in him.

    Also, having a joint account is not automatically a safe option for you. I have read enough stories about the husband/wife clearing out the account without the co account holder knowing. So I would suggest you get a single account to yourself.

    If I sound harsh then it’s only cause I have seen cases like this. I don’t necessarily mean to say your husband will cheat you or whatever .

    You know him best for sure. But its always better to be safe than sorry no?

    Best of luck to you Tunis .

  • anabellah

    July 1, 2017

    Sister Tunis,

    If you want to remain married to your husband, although he wants you to give up your legal marriage license, you certainly could agree to that. There is nothing wrong with it Islamically. You and he could come to a friendly agreement that he and you would remain married Islamically, but you would relinquish your marriage license. As long as you and he agree to it and are happy with doing that, then it should be okay. There is an ayah in the Quran that addresses that type of situation.

    Even if some say that getting rid of the Marriage License counts as a divorce, it still appears to be okay as it would only be one divorce, if you were never divorced before. If you want to be safe, just consider it one divorce.

    You’ve got to do what you think is best for you. Just as everyone who advises you must do what is best for them. We only give advice here. It doesn’t mean that anyone is going to take it.

  • Amonie

    July 1, 2017

    AsSalamualaikum sister’s,
    I have posted on here before and I have got great advice. Sense then a lot has changed. So I would like an opinion on something I have done. My husband has taken on a fourth wife we are open amugst the wives and husband with are polygamy family. I’m ok with how things are, everyone is very open with who they are and what they are looking for out of this family we are building..but the way I am, I’m a safety person that is always trying to have are familys best interests in tact. So I did a background check on the fourth wife like I had done on the others and even my husband when i first met him. We have ten kids and have been through so much that I don’t trust so easy. Am I wrong by doing this? I didn’t take action on anything I found, I have just taken the info as knowledge for my self and never shared it. And I gave it all to Allah and made Dua for her and my family.

  • anabellah

    July 1, 2017

    As Salaamu Alaikum & Hello to all our wonderful blog family in cyberspace polygamy 411 May 2017 discussions

    Welcome to the new discussion thread for July 2017. We thank you all for being here. Please feel free to jump in and join the discussions. Ask questions and share your thoughts.

    For those who would like to finish reading the June 2017 comments/replies or would like to refresh their memory, the link is:June 2017 Discussions

    polygamy 411 July 2017 Discussions