Living Perfectly Flawed Polygamy

living perfectly flawed polygamyI call polygamous marriages “living perfectly flawed polygamy,” because there is nothing wrong with polygamy as an institution. The flaw is in the people who think that people and polygamous marriages should have no flaws. Basically, one’s expectations are the problem. People expect too much from one another.

One of our dear commentators here at polygamy 411, named “Gail”, said, “If everyone listened to reason (husbands giving wives rights 24/7 then we would live in a utopia)” What she said is true. It’s the point that I try to make when I say this life is earth and not Paradise. It is why we have perfectly flawed polygamy.

Allah has given us the Holy Quran to live our lives by. We must remember that mankind will commit sins. Therefore, no one is going to live the entire Holy Quran perfectly, twenty-four hours a day and seven days a week. Although, it’s something that we should aspire to. So, why do some people think that all men who live a polygamous life will always do it fairly, justly, with kindness, and without error?

What makes them think that there are men who will always do all the things that they should do? Many know right from wrong, but don’t do it.ย Some don’t know right from wrong, which is why they can’t do it. Either way, the way the men conduct themselves results in perfectly flawed polygamy. They will suffer the consequences for what they do.

No one is without sin, which is why I call it “living perfectly flawed polygamy”

We all sin and will sin again and again and again. Allah lets us know that. Additionally, he says a believer is one who repents. He is a Forgiving God and is Oft-forgiving. Those who don’t repent and Allah doesn’t forgive them will suffer the results. Furthermore, Allah’s punishment is severe. All will not go to Paradise. Some will go to the Fire.

It is ludicrous for anyone to think that all men who lives a polygamous life will live it perfectly. What good does it do to talk all the time about the flaws in men because of the way that they live a polygamous life? It’s a waste of time and bears no good fruit. It amounts to mere complaining.

Let’s not forget that a husband will account to Allah for all that he does wrong in a polygamous marriage. Of course we all will account to Allah for what we do. There are those who suffer and are in pain in monogamous marriages as well as in polygamous ones. People talk about how bad men are, but do they sit around talking about how bad monogamous men are? Yet, we hear wives talking about how bad polygamous men are. Which one is the problem? Is it the type of marriage or is it the man?

If one meets a person who is living perfectly flawed polygamy, instead of finding fault, try to help her or him. Remember, if we arenโ€™t part of the solution, we are part of the problem. In conclusion, polygamy is perfect. People have the flaws.

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52 Comments

  • anabellah

    December 12, 2015

    u235sentinel, hi there ๐Ÿ™‚

    I can’t comment on the show, Sister Wives, only because I haven’t watched it. I have hope to one day check it out.

    Thank you for sharing about the Mormon Church and it’s position on polygamy. I appreciate you keeping me apprised of what’s going on. Much oblige.

  • u235sentinel

    December 9, 2015

    Hello,

    I appreciate the comments and thoughts. I’m pretty sure the Mormon church freaks out every time the subject comes up. My wife and I even spoke with a Mormon bishop once about it. He read an official letter from the church authorities responding to questions we had about polygamy. The response was a surprise. They were just shy of suggesting polygamy wasn’t in the church doctrine. However D&C 132 is still there and the past leaders spoke passionately about it being an eternal principle. John Taylor (6th President I think of the LDS Church was a fireball about it in his talks).

    So we’ll see. I have very strong feelings about it. And I think that makes these guys nervous.

    @Mari2 I agree. With the show Sister Wives, I like to think I understand why the husband married a fourth wife. I disagree with his decision though. However I’m not him nor a member of their family. It’s very possible he had received direction or inspiration and had to follow it. As an outsider I am not in a position to know.

    I do know that EVERY time I didn’t follow the inspiration I received, I was very sorry and paid a heavy penalty. These days I would need a really good reason not to follow it.

    Why did I disagree with the decision to marry a fourth wife?

    Well Kody (the husband) said it himself in the first season of the show. His three wives and him had a balance for 16 years. That’s special. It’s rare. And to upset the family balance IMO was a poor decision.

    I do think he spends too much time with wife number 4. In fact, my wife noticed it too ๐Ÿ™‚

    We’ve talked about it. I’m hoping it’s just TLC focusing more on her than the others. It’s been several years now and they still focus more on wife number 4.

    A husband in that situation is being tested to see whether he will treat all the same or have a favorite. It’s like asking which one of his kids does he love most. Hopefully, all equally and in great quantity ๐Ÿ˜€

  • Spirited

    December 3, 2015

    Salaam,

    @Mari2, I just have to say, he actually said you don’t know what “true love” is? That about made me spit out my drink, lol. And that comment about being too strong, that was also lol-worthy. Its one of those screwed if you do and screwed if you don’t things. In any case, with what’s been going on, I think you’re doing a-ok sticking to your guns. Thank you for keeping us all updated

  • anabellah

    December 3, 2015

    It doesn’t seem the Imam did the topic justice. I suppose what he said was better than saying nothing. Every little bit helps.

  • Mari2

    December 3, 2015

    Last week at mosque the imam gave a lecture on marriage. He told the men that they lie at the feet of their mother but to a point. The point is respect and caring. The imam said too often there are issues when women want a home with their husbands and the mother acts like her DIL committed zinna because she requested her own place. And the imam urged the men to respect their mothers while giving rights to their wives. At the end I said to M…see..you lie at the feet of your mother. Heaven does not lie there, nor Allah, and certainly not your wives. 2 lies at the feet of her mom. I lie at the feet of mine. Neither of us lie at the feet of your mother alone.

  • Mari2

    December 3, 2015

    Ana,
    I have no idea when she will arrive. M says he has not mailed off the visa application of which he wants me to help fill out. That doesn’t mean that I believe him. It could have gone off weeks ago and he’s yanking my chain. And yes..he does expect me to help her acclimate. But that is not my job so I respectfully declined, especially since she’s made her vitriol quite apparent towards me.

    M is still chafing because the other night I informed him that the world was full of potential husbands but only one Allah. So only Allah is my lord. Allah can never be replaced but husbands can. This discussion unfortunately came about because I asked M to help her and me be more accepting of polygamy and he made it to be about him, and her and my issues with M was caused by our impatience. Then he turned to how American women don’t understand true love…yada yada. American women are too strong blah blah. So I went to bed.

  • anabellah

    November 29, 2015

    @Mari2,

    Do you have any idea of when she may be arriving where you are? I’d imagine that if she doesn’t speak much English she will have a difficult time getting aclimated. Has your hubz been trying to convince you to take her under your wings? What are your thoughts about it?

    Yeah, I know her thinking she’s all that is rubbing you the wrong way. Don’t worry. She’ll get brought down to size and you won’t have to be the one to do it

  • Mari2

    November 29, 2015

    @Ana
    lol…I take it easy. I HAVE it easier than 2 for the most part. And I do sympathize the whole family marriage dynamics on her part, yet her attitude of entitlement, emotional neediness, and disrespectful behavior really chafes. I am happy to be removed from all that. I’m sure when she arrives drama will ratchet up a notch. Fortunately I need not live with the lot of them.

  • anabellah

    November 27, 2015

    That’s a heck of a combination…it enough to blow a fuse. Take it easy! Lol

  • Mari2

    November 27, 2015

    @Gail
    yeah I understand which is why I am 50 percent sympathetic and 50 percent furious.

  • Gail

    November 25, 2015

    Mari2,

    I forgot to mention the problem with cousin marriages they r trapped and have to live under the whole dang family.I mean mom dad inlaws cousins u freaking name it.They have to disown their entire family if they divorce.People get killed their for lesser things.Family marriages are very dangerous there and any woman that is not family well u know.

  • Gail

    November 25, 2015

    Mari2,

    Oh boy u said a mouthful.If he thinks he has it bad now just wait until she gets to USA and starts popping out a 8 or 10 kids lol He is not a spring chicken anymore and most Pakistani men do not mix up so much with their children and dump on their wives and wives scream.lol believe me it is going to be a sight to see.lol

  • Mari2

    November 25, 2015

    @Ana
    Thank you for your support and advice. This blog has been a great help to me.

  • Mari2

    November 25, 2015

    @Gail
    Please do not think that I was upset by your post. Not at all. I realize that you know the issues with culture. While M can re adjust some of his cultural learning, there are some things that just cannot be budged. So I just leave it. It will all be sorted out in the next phase of being.

    I know that you fight culture too. A good way of doing so, from my experience, is just to be on your own. Get your own place. Cut yourself off from all but him. Just let it all go.

    Today M and I were talking about how a pakistani man he knows told another pakistani man to NOT marry a girl from his country and do NOT marry a relative because then he can avoid all his relatives here and abroad from interfering in his marriage. The man was told to marry a woman already in America because she would be able to understand life here and “not imagine herself to be a princess”.

    I said to M “where was this advice before you chose to marry your cousin?” M replied “I wish someone would tell this to my mom before. “

  • Gail

    November 24, 2015

    Mari2,

    I really loved your post! I did not write the post to make u feel bad.I just know those people and using children and family to get one up on the outsider is what they do.
    I am also fighting culture so I get where u r coming from.I am so happy u r finding peace I am also dying for peace as my insane husband has me back on his ignore list as of yesterday but I don’t care.After awhile u just don’t care anymore.

  • anabellah

    November 23, 2015

    Mari2, the way to go, sis

    Keep holding onto Allah. He’ll continue to protect you and take care of you. He is EVERYTHING you need. You’ve got it all.

    You got it going on. You’ve got more than #2, M, his mother and the whole lot of them. Keep on keeping on…

  • Mari2

    November 23, 2015

    @Gail and @Ana
    I will have to say that it was but a moment ago while I was typing that I realized how free I really was. Really free MASHALLAH. Free from culture, MIL, that wayward country, and other drama re his family. Wow. Peace is great! I shall strive to provide myself with the best that Islam has to offer me. Allah knows best!

  • Mari2

    November 23, 2015

    @Gail
    Yes I am aware that there are muslim women who do not accept polygamy even though their husband’s have done so. And while 2’s attitude might cause me issues, her problems with polygamy are hers and M’s. She and he and his mom as the bit player will need to answer for their lack of faith on their judgement day. Islam is that clear. If M decides to divorce me solely on the opinion of his mom and 2, he can do so, then he will need to answer for that on his day of judgement. I will aspire to be the best muslimah I can be. I will try to do what is right. But I cannot fight culture nor will I try. I will continue to read quran and avoid petty family squabbling. I have already isolated myself from his family because I know that M and I as a couple were NOT chosen by his mother or his culture. Allah was the one who brought us together. It was an odd combo from the get go but it worked nicely until his culture arrived and subsequently crapped upon our relationship. Yes 2 can arrive here and pump out babies, and yes this could (or could not) be an issue for me, but MASHALLAH it will not be. I am comfortable in the teachings of the prophet (pbuh) and the word of Allah. I am the only actual free person in this entire dichotomy of culture, marriage, immigration and maternal demands.

  • anabellah

    November 22, 2015

    As Salaamu Alaikum & hello to everyone Who have joined us ๐Ÿ™‚

    I was reading the Holy Quran and came across a couple ayat (verses) I thought to share with those who are interested.

    We should know that all of Allah’s Prophets referred to in the Holy Quran are our examples. What they learned and taught we should learn and teach. We should be aware that teaching only benefits the Believers. We can get an idea who a Believer is, as Allah tells us in the Holy Quran their attributes. Some Muslims erroneously think they are to give what they know to unbelievers to try to get them to believe, but fail to know that Allah makes Muslims and believers. There is a difference between the two. Sometimes Allah in the Quran speaks to Muslims. Sometimes He talks to the Believers. He tells us that those who don’t believe are deaf, dumb and blind. Nonetheless, some Muslims think they can do what they can’t, and will talk Islam to them when they clearly reject it.

    What I say here on this blog with reference to Islam will not be accepted by all. The Believers will get it. People who are only interested in their own wants, desires and follow lusts won’t. The people who are among those whose only cry all the time is – I want and I need and I don’t like and me, me, me, won’t get it. They don’t know that life isn’t about them.

    The two ayat are as follows:

    “But teach (thy Message): for teaching benefits the Believers.” Quran: Surah 51, ayah 55

    “I have only created jinns and men, that they may serve Me.” Quran: Surah 51, ayah 56

  • Gail

    November 21, 2015

    Mari2,

    I have a feeling when number 2 gets here and she starts popping out babies all hell is going to break loose.Pakistani women don’t accept polygamy on the whole so I think he will treat u like a secret wife is my guess and what I mean by that is he will tell them he left u but in reality he will sneak around and see u on the side.Now i don’t know that for sure but Pakistani men try to play both sides of the fence and my guess is he is so steeped in culture he has this warped since of devotion to his mom in the fact that he went with her and left u understand.I am really sorry to say I think it is going to get worse for u and she will eventually get the upper hand when she starts having kids.

  • anabellah

    November 21, 2015

    Oh, I see that one post/thread that I wrote has the word “ugly”: https://www.polygamy411.com/control-ugly-jealousy/ Two other posts/threads appeared, as well, in which the word ugly must be in the body of the post/thread. It’s interesting.

  • anabellah

    November 21, 2015

    I got a good laugh Although it’s sad that a person was hurting

    As the blog administrator, I receive the terms that people used to find this blog. I don’t too much pay attention to them. I, however, just read one in which a person wrote, “Why did Allah make me ugly”. It made me laugh. I don’t know what post I wrote that used the word ugly.

    I would like to comment to the person, but who knows whether or not the person stayed and read or simply clicked out.

    It gives me an opportunity to speak about imperfection. We know that only Allah is perfect. We must be careful though when we say that nothing is perfect.

    Allah says in the Holy Quran that He created everything in perfect proportion. It means that everything is perfectly the way it is supposed to be. It’s not flawed. Everything is happening according to Allah’s Will and Plan. All that Allah has designed is perfect. The person who thinks he or she is ugly is perfect in design. It’s heavy

  • Mari2

    November 21, 2015

    @sentinel
    sister wives does indeed give a look into mormon polygamy that is not of the cult like FLDS version that many think of when they hear “mormon” and “polygamy” used in a sentence.

    I think the show does give a perspective of polygamy and the challenges and benefits. One thing going for the wives is that almost all of them grew up in a polygamous family. So polygamy was not a new idea to them. I also find it interesting that some of the older kids eschew polygamy as the form of marriage they want to embark upon in the future, and some embrace the idea.

    But what I have noticed over the years of watching the show and with addition of wife 4, rifts have developed between the husband and his older, non childbearing wives. He spends much of his time with 4 and in the last couple of episodes 1, 2, and 3 were quite blatant in their disobedience to him. They mocked him. His failure to give wives equal time is causing them to resent him.

    So if polygamy is the road you want to travel down, that’s great. But just don’t neglect the first wives when newer ones show up.

  • anabellah

    November 21, 2015

    U235sentinel, ๐Ÿ™‚

    I enjoyed reading your post. It was very nice of you to share with us your thoughts and about what’s happening in your life. It’s way interesting.

    You are very fortunate to have a wife whom you could talk openly and honestly with about such things as polygamy. Some women are so closed minded that they don’t want the word polygamy mentioned to them. I must admit though, polygamy could take women through a whirlwind of changes. It could turn a woman’s world upside down and inside out. I suppose it does a thing or two to the men, as well, which is not very good either. I think the only reason many Muslim women entertain the idea of polygamy, and try to accept it is because they probably fear Allah enough to know that they shouldn’t oppose Him with their desires (wanting a husband all to themselves). I’ve read enough in the Quran about the Hell Fire to be scared straight.

    It’s very important to have people around us who are on the same page, and have the same understanding. Only God is One. We need others. You would have a hard way to go, if your wife isn’t with you on living polygamy. I could see why you’d want her on board before you proceed, as you and she won’t get any backing from your church. She eventually may come around. You’re being very patient with her, which is very good. When a person loves another they sometimes make sacrifices for the other. Then they many times find life is better and easier for them than before. It’s a beautiful thing.

    Maybe your church doesn’t want to rock the boat in trying to get polygamy allowed and formalized. There may come a time, as you said, that your wife will eventually accept and you and she will have to step out there on faith, and do your own thing.

    I, however, think people who engage in polygamy need to have a frame of reference. Some people were here on the blog who said they wasn’t Muslim, nor Mormon, but they wanted to engage in polygamy. They had no intention to be Mormon or Muslim. Apparently, they wanted to make up a way of life, but not connect it to a formal religion. Anyone could make up anything. I can’t grasp exactly what they were trying to do. It’s very difficult to advise someone such as them, as well.

    About those saggy pants people, where I live, I don’t see much of it anymore. Some places in the area in which I live have made it illegal for anyone to walk about with their pants half way off their @$$es and their butts showing. Those people to me walk about like it are a nasty piece of work. Who do they think other than their mother or a person they are intimate with want to see something so personal? It’s disgustingly grotesque, if you ask me.

    I haven’t been following “Sister-Wives” – only because I don’t have much time to watch television. I have been watching “Couples Therapy” which is cool LOL I’d imagine the book about the “Sister’s Wives” would be a good read. I admire them for standing up and fighting for their beliefs.

    You seem to be doing very well in expanding your mind and intellect. Good for you! I, too, love learning. You seem to be a good guy! ๐Ÿ™‚

  • u235sentinel

    November 21, 2015

    Hello ๐Ÿ˜€

    I’ve always poked around the web site reading this and that.

    Life and relationships have become a lot more complicated than ever. My Wife and I have spoken about polygamy but the issue always revolves around the “Mormon” religion. We’ve gone as far as to speak with a Bishop from the church. Weird thing is his comments “almost” made you believe it wasn’t doctrine anymore. I’ve done enough research to know that’s hardly true. In fact from the church Doctrine and Convenant book (a book part of the Mormon scriptures) there is still section 132 which talks about eternal marriage and polygamy.

    Then there are Discourses of Brigham Young and talks by other Mormon leaders. One John Taylor said that polygamy was an eternal principle and you cannot get rid of an eternal principle (or something in similar words I think).

    So no matter how badly today’s modern Mormon wants it to go away, unless they change the dictionary (or remove a few pages) it’s not going anywhere.

    I’ve reminded my wife it’s something she needs to approve though. I know there are many interpretations on how it should be lived. Personally I believe the wife (or wives) need to approve additional marriages before they can move forward. I get the impression she doesn’t believe it but we’ve had discussions over the years and I’ve been reading journals of other’s in the Mormon faith. How they started. It’s been insightful.

    I know “Sister Wives” isn’t representative of polygamy in many cases however it’s close to what I’ve pictured it should be in my mind. I’ve been a big fan of the TV show and have read their book. The book was a real eye opener. Much of what you see on TV has been filtered. Even little things you suspect are discussed candidly in the book. It’s a tougher life style without a doubt. But there are benefits too.

    A close friend of mine recently passed away. Her kids went back to her ex husband. Who isn’t a bad guy. They just didn’t get along very well towards the end of their marriage. Her kids had to uproot themselves and move back to Oregon from Utah. After the trauma of loosing their mother, they now have to move 1000 miles away and start over again. One of the benefits of polygamy would be that close bond of family to support one another. Even when things go seriously wrong.

    I don’t believe men (or women) should have something on the side IMO. If there is to be another women in a man’s life and it’s intimate then she really should be a wife and not a mistress. Men should take responsibility and give up the Nintendo or Xbox life or whatever and be men. I’m not saying they can’t have those things. I do look at the rising generation and I’m worried with what I see. Saggy pants and all.

    I think people aren’t honest with themselves because they want to follow the party line (whatever it is). They think if they do they are following God. I’ve often reminded people that Polygamy is more than just about sex. It’s options for women if they choose.

    A lot of those guys with saggy pants would disappear overnight if it became at least decriminalized. They would need to clean up or find themselves without a woman in their life.

    The last 15 years I’ve been studying what we know about Human Consciousness. It seems science knows a LOT more than we hear about in church or on the news. It’s taken me to some interesting web sites talking about stuff like Near Death Experiences (NDE). One of the latest I’ve been going through is ndestories.org. They have people from all denominations and faiths. Some of their stories have been fascinating.

    I bring it up only because it’s helped me with talking to my wife about some of this stuff. I’ve found some Mormons who have talked about their NDE. It’s helped give my wife a frame of reference she can relate to. One spoke about relationships with one another and with God. How we’re FAR tougher on ourselves than God is. That we’re allowed to make mistakes but we’re expected to learn from them.

    Maybe someday we’ll make the move to Polygamy. I’ve been told I needed to be patient and let her catch up. I think the changes in my life have freaked her out so I’m taking it easy on her. It could be another couple years it could be another 20 years.

    This is going to be an interesting experience I think ๐Ÿ˜€

  • anabellah

    November 16, 2015

    @Mari2,

    I’d imagine your husband’s other will become his mother’s slave once she gets here in the States. It could be another reason his mother isn’t feeling you (doesn’t like you). You didn’t become her slave. Good for you. If it has to be anyone, better your co than you.

    I wrote a post that relates to it: Involuntary Caregivers in Polygamy

  • anabellah

    November 16, 2015

    Yeap, Mari2, I think you could expect to have problems when his other gets here. I could see his mother and her ganging up on him to get rid of you. They’re both getting what they want. They stand to have more if you’re not in the picture. Sadly, he can’t stand up for himself. The way of life in Pakistan in which the parents are lord to the children is ingrained in him. His mother has become your husband’s lord. There isn’t much changing it. He’s not like Gail’s husband; although there are still problems in that relationship, as well, with Muslim being married to non-Muslim.

  • anabellah

    November 16, 2015

    @Mari2,

    Here is the ayah:

    “O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, His mate, and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women;- reverence Allah, through whom ye demand your mutual (rights), and (reverence) the wombs (That bore you): for Allah ever watches over you.” Quran: Sura 4, ayah 1

    “Thy Lord hath decreed that ye worship none but Him, and that ye be kind to parents. Whether one or both of them attain old age in thy life, say not to them a word of contempt, nor repel them, but address them in terms of honour.” Quran: Surah 17, ayah 23

    “And even if thou hast to turn away from them in pursuit of the Mercy from thy Lord which thou dost expect, yet speak to them a word of easy kindness.” Quran: Surah 17, ayah 28

    “We have enjoined on man kindness to parents: but if they (either of them) strive (to force) thee to join with Me (in worship) anything of which thou hast no knowledge, obey them not. Ye have (all) to return to me, and I will tell you (the truth) of all that ye did.” Quran: Surah 29, ayah 8

    There are more ayat about parents and children relationships. I didn’t cite them all here. None tell a parent they can rule over and control a child’s life.

    I find it appalling that a whole culture of people have changed the meaning of the words in the Quran to enslave people (children). Being kind and treating a parent well does not mean the parent takes over the child’s life and owns the child. It’s incredible how some people twist the words of Allah for their own personal gain.

  • Mari2

    November 16, 2015

    @Ana
    Reverence to womb….I like that term and may borrow it. I know for a fact that M is under pressure from MIL and 2 to divorce me though I have done nothing to warrant a divorce Islamically. I have already told him that they may put their whims before the will of Allah if they desire. They will answer for it later perhaps. I don’t know. I’d rather focus on Allah. I just left the conversation with M at this: you can answer to culture or you can be answerable to Allah. That is your decision.

    Sure when 2 comes there most likely will be issues. I am not unaware. Allah will guide me through it one way or another.

  • Gail

    November 14, 2015

    Ana,

    Thanks for finding it in the Quran.I was more curious about the widows and divorced woman who would be their husbands there first or second,third etc…
    I Christianity now mind u I am not really into christian beliefs anymore but it claims to not be any taking in marriage.As as I know Jews don’t really believe in marriage in heaven.Interesting stuff.

  • anabellah

    November 13, 2015

    Gail,

    You asked how it would be that the wives would be in Paradise/Jannah with their husband when the wives dislike one another. Wives who are BELIEVERS wouldn’t dislike one another on earth. They may not hang out and be the BFF (Best Friends for Life), but they won’t dislike one another. The key is that they are BELIEVERS. Allah tells us who to like and dislike. Believers don’t dislike other Believers. They all put Allah first and set aside any differences.

    Muslims who are enemies today. Allah can make them friends at anytime. It’s all a matter of what is in a person’s heart and whether they have a sincere desire to serve and worship Allah.

    Furthermore, Allah will remove all stains of evil and purify the Believers’ heart before they enter Jannah/Paradise. No one can enter Jannah/Paradise with an impure heart. Once in Paradise everything is TOTAL BLISS. There is no one disliking another and the ridiculousness that occurs on this planet.

  • anabellah

    November 13, 2015

    As Salaamu Alaikum and Hello to All ๐Ÿ™‚

    I was just reading the Quran this a.m. and came across another ayah that answers Gail’s question about whether wives will be with their husbands in Paradise/Jannah. The ayat (verses) are as follows:

    “Friends on that day will be foes, one to another,- except the Righteous.” Quran: Surah 43, ayah 67

    “My devotees! no fear shall be on you that Day, nor shall ye grieve,-” Quran: Surah 43, ayah 68

    “(Being) those who have believed in Our Signs and bowed (their wills to Ours) in Islam.” Quran: Surah 43, ayah 69

    “Enter ye the Garden, ye and your wives, in (beauty and) rejoicing.” Quran: Surah 43, ayah 70

  • anabellah

    November 12, 2015

    Mari2’s co knows enough to get out of Dodge (Pakistan). The men know enough, as well. Many fain love to a foreigner so they could leave. Some people probably wonder where the saying comes from, “Get out of Dodge”.

  • anabellah

    November 12, 2015

    About monogamy and polygamy, I see and hear all too often about people living monogamy who are very unhappy, the same as I hear about people who live polygamy who are unhappy. The men feel they are trapped for the rest of their lives with the same partner and there are women who think and feel the same way who are in monogamous marriage. It’s as though their lives are over. It’s as though monogamy is monotony. People could make out that monogamy is all that, but I know differently. Look at any monogamous marriage. The parties to it are having problems just as people in polygamous marriages have problems. The problems may not be the same, but they’ve got problems, so people need to shut the hole in their faces when they want to badmouth polygamy all day and night.

    Allah lets us know that if a person doesn’t worship Him, the person will have problems. If a person doesn’t know the meaning of life and why we are on this earth, the person will have problems. It doesn’t matter what type of marriage they are in.

  • anabellah

    November 12, 2015

    Mari2,

    I kinda think your co won’t need to make an informed decision because she has others thinking for her. She knows nothing about thinking for herself other than to think about she wants materially and affectionately from M. I doubt she knows anything about weighing any pros and cons etc. She only knows she should have a way better life in the U.S. and she ready to make the migration. She know enough to get out of Dodge (Pakistan)…

    About your co-worker, she may have a point. You just may have problems, if your co is anything like Aisha’s co. who cries all the time and the husband goes running to her.

    If she will be living with him and his mother, the two of them could pressure him to stay there on his time off as the two of them will need him more than you will. You are the independent one. It will all boil down to whether M is going to bow down to their wishes or defy them and see you as well. Time will certainly tell. Allah say reverence the womb that bore you, but if they try to get you to go against Islam or do things outside the realm of Islam don’t listen to them, don’t obey them.

  • Mari2

    November 12, 2015

    @ana
    I don’t know anyone who has outright told me they hated polygamy, but I do get unhelpful, unsolicited wisdom from my co worker who often predicts to me that as soon as 2 shows up I will no longer see M because he will favor her over me. This could happen but M does have an obligation to spend time with me and I know that. But my co worker doesn’t understand the rights of wives in Islam. In the meantime she is newly married and going thru growing pains in her new, monogamous marriage. So problems can exist in any marriage.

    I get what Grim has to say. She and her co wives get along well enough to make the marriage work. They show each other respect and civility. The live apart and also enjoy a life of their own independent of one another. Seems to me to be a healthy combination. Co wives don’t have to be besties nor must they hang out with each other.

    I will be completely honest and say I wish 2 would stay in Pakistan forever. But I also know that is not realistic. M is being pressured to bring her here ASAP. Okay. I was going over the forms he must submit and I suggested (calmly) that M be very frank with 2 about how 2 will be living when/if she arrives. Living in a 2 room(room Not 2 bedrooms)basement apt with M and his mom; M has no health insurance; M works 7 days a week; she (2) will need to reside here 1 year before she can qualify for in state college tuition rates; becoming employed and getting a license to drive requires she speak English etc. I told him to tell herwhat it is she can expect so she can at least make an informed decision.

  • anabellah

    November 12, 2015

    ummof4, Wa Alaikum As Salaam,

    Very nice post! I agree, if people do their homework first by relying on a competent, reliable wali they fare way better. No one seems to put Allah in the equation when considering a spouse. Only when they begin to have problems in a marriage do they turn to Allah. When they don’t listen to Allah (What He commands), they only get a warning. After the warning and the person DOESN’T LISTEN, agony and suffering usually awaits the person. The person gets no comfort and ease within the marriage.

  • anabellah

    November 12, 2015

    u235sentinel,

    I really like what Kody Brown (From Sister Wives) said, โ€œLove should be multiplied not dividedโ€. It a nice saying that I agree with. ๐Ÿ™‚

    It’s unbelievable how people against polygamy rant about how terrible polygamy is as though they came from monogamous bliss or know of others who live it (bliss)- NOT! Many of them probably can’t find a husband to be monogamous or polygamous with. Not many look at all the men who are in a monogamous marriage, but the marriage is really polygamous anyhow. The men have mistresses or the women have men on the side. Probably the majority of the divorces are due to infidelity. How many women don’t divorce, but simply tolerate their husbands having mistresses? Look at all the women who are visiting marriage sites in search of a husband. How many will never get married because they can’t find a husband to be monogamous with and they won’t agree to polygamy? It’s their loss. They live alone saying they’d rather be alone than share a husband when, in essence, they lie. They are very unhappy and lonely. Most people want a companion of the opposite sex or, I suppose I should say, the same sex, as well. It’s incredible how many people can’t be honest with themselves.

    I’d love to know what kind of relationship, if any, the polygamy haters who voice their strong abhorrent to polygamy have. If they were in such a wonderful marriage, why do they troll the polygamy sites and sit all day and night talking about polygamy?

  • ummof4

    November 12, 2015

    As-salaamu Alaikum and hello to all,

    Good to hear from you u235sentinel. I agree with you. All of the problems that people complain about in polygyny also exist in monogamy. For example, the issue of time. Many wives in monogamous marriages complain that their husbands spend more time at their jobs, with their friends, or with hobbies than with their wives and children. They wind up getting divorced because the husbands are not fair and just with their time.

    Many marital problems arise because the spouses did not investigate or get to know the character and personality of each other in advance. It’s true that you never truly know someone until you live with him, but you can still “find out at lot, before you tie the knot.”

    One of the beauties of Islaam is that if the walee does a proper job in regards to his ward, and she respects him enough to follow his lead, then men and women do not “fall in love” before they are married. The couples find out about their compatibility through halaal (lawful) methods. They build their marriage based on their love of Allah, first and foremost; they do their best to obey Allah; they grow to respect, love and truly care about each other.

    May Allah grant us all the sakinah (tranquility) of a righteous marriage if that is what is best for us.

  • anabellah

    November 11, 2015

    u235sentinel,

    Wow, there you are. I was just thinking of you recently. I thought you had left us and we wasn’t going to hear from you again. It’s wonderful to see you’ve written. I can’t read the post right now, but will be back ASAP. ๐Ÿ™‚ It’s so good to have you back with us. Don’t stay away so long, if you can help it…

  • u235sentinel

    November 11, 2015

    “Do people sit around, talking about how bad monogamy is or how bad monogamous men are?”

    Actually some do. It was a topic that came up with friends of my kids. We spoke about it just this evening as I chuckled.

    I mentioned my parents divorced years ago. And it was for the issues people talk about regarding polygamy all the time. Abuse issues and junk like that. It’s not exclusive to polygamy and far more often you hear about monogamous relationships being the problem. Little to no competition means guys can be jerks and will likely find someone willing to tolerate it.

    A lady friend of mine from High School just went through a divorce. The things I hear I understand are one sided. However, I know her well enough to believe he messed up and there will be Karma to work off if he’s not careful.

    With polygamy, a woman has far more options available which IMO forces guys to shape up, or else ๐Ÿ™‚

    Either way, there is one standard we are expected to live by. That is do we act with Love or some other feeling? If it’s not Love, then we’re doing it wrong ๐Ÿ™‚

    In the words of Kody Brown (From Sister Wives), “Love should be multiplied not divided”

  • Grim

    November 9, 2015

    Gail

    My husband has four wives, so I have three co-wives.

  • anabellah

    November 8, 2015

    Gail,

    Years ago someone here asked the same question. I don’t know the answer.

  • Gail

    November 8, 2015

    Ana,

    Then what happens when your first husband dies and a widow takes a second husband?How does that work?I couldn’t imagine being married with my first husband again.Nice guy but would not want to be married to him for all eternity.

  • anabellah

    November 8, 2015

    Gail,

    About husbands and wives being together in Paradise/Jannah, each individual person has to enter based on his or her own merit. Each individual person must first be a “Believer” to enter. A Believer is one who believes and does righteous deeds. The person’s good deeds must outweigh his or her bad deeds.

    A couple ayat (verses) from the Holy Quran to support that a husband and wife/wives will most likely be together, if they qualify to enter, are as follows:

    “Gardens of perpetual bliss: they shall enter there, as well as the righteous among their fathers, their spouses, and their offspring: and angels shall enter unto them from every gate (with the salutation):”
    Quran: Surah 13, ayah 23

    “Peace unto you for that ye persevered in patience! Now how excellent is the final home!”
    Quran: Surah 13, ayah 24

  • Gail

    November 8, 2015

    Grim,

    I understand that u get along decently with your cowives but most women don’t was my point.
    I am curious though how come u don’t hang with them if u ladies get along.I would think u might like to hang out together sometimes just to get the kids together and enjoy each others company if u don’t mind me asking? I take it u have 2 cowives? I think u make a great points on ow things should be in a ideal world at least I sense that about u but unfortunately we don’t live in an ideal world.I wish we did it would be a much better place to live.

  • Grim

    November 8, 2015

    Gail

    My co-wives are good neighbours to me. We are not best friends, we are muslimahs together which is quite enough for me. I would trust them with my life, and with the lives of my children which is even more important, but I do not spend my time off with them. I have no problems at all sharing my husband with them in Jannah if we are fortunate enough to get there, and Allah has promised us all that there will only be bliss in Jannah for those who are allowed in, so there is nothing to worry about, Insha’Allah.

  • Gail

    November 8, 2015

    Grim,

    I will tell u why I say don’t blame Polygamy for your problems and it is a simple one.The reason I say this is because u Chose Polygamy.Look if anyone picks something that they know is going to be a stumbling block for them on purpose is that not the definition of Crazy? Is Polygamy hard yeah u betcha it is and I am living proof of that but I don’t blame Polygamy for my and my excowife and husbands short comings because Polygamy in itself when practiced correctly is an awesome way to live I can see it I can visualize it and I have lived it.My excowife and husband and I didn’t always fight there was love and affection between us we share kids for heaven sake.
    Don’t take this wrong ok because I am not Muslim but I to be frank I don’t think u can save your husbands soul anymore than he can save yours.Everyone is on their own individual path.I believe u can influence people to try to get them to do right but in the end it is up to them.
    As far as talking about husbands being fair to all their wives ok I accept it thats reasonable to assume they need to be but lets face it this is life we r living and 24/7 being fair and just is not going to happen.Now leave the husbands for awhile and lets take a look at cowives.Do u think in the context of Polygamy that cowives have a responsibility to be fair and just to each other as well or do they get a free pass to act like b!tches and devils to each other all the while screaming that hubby is not fair and just.I mean logically stop and think about it.
    Look here is the reality of Polygamy when husband takes a new wife is is natural that he is going to be all up in the new wife’s business.More than likely she is going to get pregnant and he will be excited about his new life it is normal.If a husband didn’t act like that I would think why did he bother to take another wife then.
    I personally think alot of problems in polygamy are dumped on the husbands when in fact the wives should be bypassing the husband all together and dealing the majority of the problems themselves but because u have jealousy,anger,strife,etc… hanging in the middle wives just see it easier to scream at their husbands thinking he can do something and start screaming he is not fair when in fact alot of times it is the wives who r not being fair and giving the guy a break.I been there seen it and done it so I know what I am talking about here.I can’t tell u how many times I wanted to bash my husbands nose in and how many times I screamed at him that I was going to divorce him like a 2 yr old.He was wrong for sure but so was I and so was my cowife.This is why I don’t hold a grudge against my excowife because I now get it $h!t happens and $h!t happens alot in polygamy and u just have to learn to roll with the punches or make choice to get out if u can’t deal it.
    I don’t know about all this wanting to be a your husbands wife in heaven business as I was taught there is no taking of marriage in heaven as we will be like the angels so again can’t comment on that one.I think for me personally i would want to be single and care free in heaven.I would really want to leave all the drama behind.Also how is Polygamy going to work in heaven if u can’t stand your cowife on earth? hahahahhahahahahahhahahah No I don’t believe in all that nonsense.I mean when I think about it would u live on one side of heaven and your cowife on the other side.LOL
    I am not making fun of your believe system at all.I get it Muslims believe this butttt I can’t imagine how a cowives believe this yet they don’t get along.It seems like an oxymoron to me.On the off chance this is true then would two cowives that can’t tolerate each other here on earth love each other in heaven?Or in our mind does the nasty cowife not make it and only the good cowife makes it to be her husbands wife?

    Ana,

    Do u know anything about this being your husbands wife in Jannah? Logically I don’t get it.Maybe u could explain to me if u don’t mind.
    I could see it if everyone got along and sat around singing “I love u! NOOO I love u more! Nooooo I love u more kind of attitude but with the way Polygamy is set up I just can’t fathom it.Please explain this to me.

  • Grim

    November 8, 2015

    Gail

    I am sorry, I could not copy your questions here but I will try to answer anyway. I beg your pardon if I miss something.

    When my husband is angry with me, I say Astaghfirullah or Ohebok fi Allah. It usually takes the anger away. And when I am angry with him the same happens, but the other way around. My husband does not act out, he is a very invert and thoughtful person. Only seldom are we angry with each other.

    I see here many times on the blog that you say we should not blame polygamy for our problems, there are problems in monogamy too – which is true enough. At the same time, this is a logical fallacy.

    There are problems in monogamy and polygamy, but this is not the same thing as problems because of monogamy and polygamy.

    If a husband is angry with a wife who does not take care of the home, that would be a problem in polygamy and monogamy but not because of either.

    In monogamy, if a husband wanted a child and the wife refused and forced the husband to be childless, that would be a problem because of monogamy. Do you see the difference? Can you come up with mnay more difficulties in monogamy that would be not only in monogamy but because of it?

    In polygamy of course there are a great many problems that occur because of polygamy, not just in polygamy. Problems concerning lack of justice, lack of fairness, lack of intimacy, lack of a present father at times when it is needed, jealousy, nafs etc.

    So, as I see it, we must, if we want to be honest and not simply fight for our views, agree that there are many more problems because of polygamy than because of monogamy. This is why stress is much common in polygamy bith husband and wives.

    As a wife, I want my husband to achieve Jannah. And I want to be his wife there. So I do everything I can to live my life so I can achieve this. I believe Polygamy for me has been a way to live my life more in tune with my faith. I have had to be more careful about improving my deen, and I have understood why the rules of ISlam are there to help us, not make things more difficult.

    But since I want my husband to achieve Jannah, it is important to me that he is not a sinner. For a husband, polygamy can be the wall against Jannah, because being fair and just and kind is difficult with one wife, with four it takes a man with religious conviction and humility to accept correction. My husband is such a man Masha’Allah.

    So if I ever perceive that he is unjust, or refusing me rights BECAUSE of polygamy, I simply say “I want to be your wife in Jannah” and I can tell you that does give him pause!

    So I would advice sisters to keep helping your husbands live the life of a believer, and award you your rights, and keep telling him you want to be his wife in Jannah.

  • anabellah

    November 7, 2015

    Gail,

    I hope the post/thread will open the door for some good, constructive dialog. I like what Mari2 wrote, as well.

    Mari2,

    Nice post! Compromise is important. Too often a spouse gets wrapped up in what he or she wants – her or his “RIGHTS”. If one simply tries to learn and live Quran, she or he wouldn’t get caught up and stuck on “rights”. Everything will fall into place. A wife should focus on what she is doing or should be doing, and not so much on what someone else is doing or should be doing. She needs to stop pointing a finger at someone else and look at SELF. If she gets herself right with Allah, her entire life will be right.

  • Gail

    November 7, 2015

    Ana,
    This is a very good Post that hopefully will bring alot of chat about how women can come up with solutions to their everyday problems involving polygamy.
    Knowone is perfect I wish I would have had this chat when Polygamy came into my life.Wives should educate themselves on how to handle situations regarding their rights and learning to deal with a husband and a cowife that might not be so loving at times.

  • Mari2

    November 7, 2015

    @Ana
    Nice! You are right about how one can be a part of problem rather than solution. My boss is often to say: a complaint without a solution is just whining.

    That is why I think it is important for women to know their rights and speak for themselves when the need arises. And like any relationship, polygamy requires compromise too. I also think it is important for both husbands and wives to know the requirements per the quran and put those requirements before culture. If husbands and wives learn they are not abiding by the tenets of Islam, or have grown up with an adulterated version of what is/is not permissible, then they should take the the necessary steps to correct their course.